As soon as I put on the Vredesteins, my shoulders went back, and I stood taller! Women in the street would catch my eye, and my boss finally noticed me at work. In fact, we're meeting this afternoon to discuss my new promotion. All - thanks to Vredestein! ✨🤩
Let's make it , bring your Dad to work day if they are still with us and functional. Doesn't need to be the full hour or so, whatever they can handle. Happy New Year 🎉
For iconic cars - those that became famous in posters on bedroom walls (930, Countach, 'Vette, myriad Ferrari, early Viper maybe?) - the equivalent is inclusion in driving games. 🤦♂️ Am probably _years_ late in realising this reincarnation. 😅
Fun fact: The Need for Speed series has exclusive rights to feature Lamborghini and Porsche (and possibly Ferrari?), which is why you'll never see those brands in other series. Gran Turismo included RUF specifically because they couldn't include Porsche.
yes, please talk about the new prado. i watched the icon's ep and throttle house just released a car of the year video where the prado was a runner up and the guys said quite the opposite to what jason said: that the engine is fine enough and what especially surprised me is that it rides better than the gx. so it'll be interesting to see the discussion about it. and thank you for all the amazing content through out the year guys. looking forward to more exciting stuff next year. happy new year!
The Urraco, Jalpa, etc are all cross plane. If you look up photos of urraco engines or look at the parts catalogues/diagrams they all have cross plane crankshafts. Maybe there was a flat plane engine in development that the v16 took parts from? I’m hoping to own a urraco within the next few years and have done a ton of research.
In the lineage of "circle cars" - VW Beetle, Audi TT, Veyron/Chiron - there was also the (first generation) Audi R8. And I'd humbly offer it up as an example of an elegant mid-engined car.
The point about modern super/hyper cars being too expensive to be relateable is so so true, it's cost, rarity and selective ownership that has killed it for me. Why should I care about a car that I'll never see and can never even dream of owning? The 12 cilindri is bite the back of your hand pretty, but it's also complete unobtainium, I'd be much more interested in an Alpine A220, give that thing a manual and a more interesting motor (Audi 5 pot would be ideal) and I'd start thinking about selling my organs for one. edit: a new 40k-60k rx7 with a rotary would kill in this market, with all cars becoming facsimiles of each other, something that is completely different would certainly scratch an itch for modern enthusiasts.
I can’t imagine super cars in any era being relatable or obtainable. These products are luxury items for the wealthy first and foremost. For the rest of us its good entertainment
well said; and you saved me the time of having to write something similar myself. on a related note: we recently saw a 1990s Nissan 300ZX in a parking garage recently and it attracted a lot of attention. uber-expensive cars that all perform similarly has become boring youtube fodder. distinctive automobiles will always generate interest. sadly, today's supercars do not.
Also a little bit of a side note, I used to work in a swiss Lamborghini Dealership as a mechanic (this was around the time where the Aventador SV came out) and worked there for a while. We had Centenarios, every Aventador,huracan, gallardo you could think of and the occasional murci's (mainly 6.2's) + surprisingly a ton of Countaches, Miuras and Espadas. But the car that stuck to me the most was a yellow Diablo GTR, it was the only Diablo I had seen during my time there and our boss had to take it for a few spins, mind you hes normally as composed as one can be, he came back shaking and trembling out of that thing. Also it was the bees knees to look at (viola SE30's are still my favourites). Edit: Jason, that swiss/french joke made me chuckle 😂😂😂
The anti 1%/ultra wealthy sentiment is definitely a significant factor. It's not just that people are no longer interested in praising those individuals. It's also the fact that more and more people are recognizing how they have fucked society and the planet over.
100%. These cars are now symbols of oppression, so when I see one, I immediately call the owner a tax evading twat (e.g. Montana license plates). So why should we be interested in these ultra wealthy shitheads' toys? Sure as an 8 year old I could have all the facts of every supercar memorized, but now, nah. They're all toys for bad people.
Can one really even comment on the performance of a car if the tires are 10 years old? That would change every aspect of the driving experience, including the ride quality.
That's the reality of journalism and car brokerage, the respective careers of the hosts. You don't own the car, and do not have the right to change it's configuration. But you are expected to drive it (even at the risk of writing it off) and pass judgement on it.
@@peterv5063 I respect that, and to their credit it was addressed in their discussion about their feeling on its performance, just not directly associated as far as I understood the conversation. I will need to listen again because I could have just missed it with the podcast on in the background.
Derek, some cars that I think get street credit from everyone like the Muira: 1970s Aston Martin V8 Vantage Ferrari F40 McLaren F1 Toyota 2000GT And since it’s CarWeek and there’s a chance they are real… Ford GT40 Shelby Cobra
I remember reading or seeing on original MT TV that Lamborghini before VAG and consequently the Diablo drove completely different model to model depending on how many glasses of wine the Italians had during that days lunch. Some wanted to kill you with oversteer others would only understeer. I never forgot that. It was hilarious to me.
1971 V-6 Dino. More like this. Steered a gorgeous orange Miura in 1968 down a dock at night in a snowstorm, pushed by several stevadores getting in place to be loaded on a ship. 🙂
"Miura being the inspiration for modern V12 Lamborghinis" is actually very interesting. Other than some sort of vaguely italian looking, sorta-Aston Martin shaped outline nothing pops into my head.
Agreed - I tend to think of the Countach when it comes to that. Insane angular looking bodywork, longitudinal mid-mounted V12, distinctly Lamborghini. Don't get me wrong, the Miura is stunningly beautiful and makes wonderful noises, but the lineage of the newer cars speaks to me more as deriving from the Countach.
You know what would help automakers sell cars? Higher wages. If your company is spending more on stock buybacks than pay raises, as is every other company, you're taking money out of the pockets of your customer base.
You want the ice ban to stay? Ten years is not enough time for the general public to access the ev market without being forced into public transit until prices come down. Not to mention the completely screwed electrical grid in Cali that already experiences rolling grid failures everytime the temps rise? The necessary outcome of forced reduction of personal ownership and controlled movement of the populace is revolting...and still won't affect the desired reduction of emissions to anywhere near the levels they say are needed. Still love your content. The depth of detail you two can discuss individual models as well as larger economic concerns and corporate matters is always entertaining and enlightening.
Hey Jason, maybe i'm just in time for your V16T video research: About the first flatplane crank V8 discussion at the end of the video, never forget about Alfa Romeo in these kind of "first of anything car engineering related" discussions. In 1967 Alfa put a racecar derived 2.0 liter flatplane crank DOHC V8 into argubly one of the most elegant midengined roadcar "carrozeria's" ever made, the 33 Stradale. The tiny V8 made a specific output of 115ps/L or 230ps in total, and revved to 10k rpm! In a car that only weighs 700kg, that would be still an absolute hoot to drive today, let alone imagine what this would have been in 1967!
Nice! I got to briefly drive a friends Diablo. Very cool experience. Couldn't wear shoes in it. I think I revved it higher than the owner ever had, which was only 7k rpm. Strangely the regular Diablo I drove didn't spin the (very old) tires at all in 2nd, it was barely faster than my 987 Cayman S. Sounded great though! As mentioned last video....I also used to have a Beat...which was the best slowest car ever.
The Diablo GT is one of my favorite Lamborghinis. That is mainly down to me not having driven any of them, so all my opinions around them are just formed by what I know about them and how they look. And the GT looks absolutely perfectly bonkers.
Countach was outrageous-looking as a project directive, as per Paolo Stanzani's request to Marcelo Gandini: "Lo piu esasperato possibile". And this was stated by Stanzani himself in an interview.
Should probably be Icons, no? Would be awesome to have a segment referencing the SE30 Jota and Jay Kay (Jamiroquai) using one in his album Traveling Without Moving 😁
Pretty interesting that cars manufacturers are adopting flat plane crank for smoother power delivery I suppose, while motorcycles are going the opposite direction, switching to uneven firing order to add more "characters".
Fun fact - Hoosier slicks in 335/30-18 are roughly 30% less expensive than the Pirelli P Zeros that are out there. Tell the new owner to put it on the slicks and drive the hell out of it 😁
Great POD episode, the Lamborghini Diablo most iconic Lambo just because of movie Wolf of Wall Street 😂😂. Still waiting for episode on Hyundai N division 🤟😍😊
Partly it’s the persona of the TH-camrs that are buying a new Supercar every other week that is killing the niche. “Hi it’s meeeee with my new Supercar… watch me get a new wrap on it now!” Just ugh!!!!
Part of the problem for new super cars is that they keep being drag raced against practical family EVs that are neck and neck. I grew up with Ferrari posters on my wall, but at this point no part of me wants a new Ferrari. Now I look at BAT and Hemmings for things older than I am
Mr. Tam-Scott Sr. on the show or we riot Would also love an episode discussing and compiling the evidence of a global malaise/british leyland 2 in the auto industry. Between direct injected Toyotas experiencing unprecedented recalls and dealer lots sitting with stagnant product for most of this year, what does that mean for the next ten or fifteen years of automotive law and industry?
Areas that should be considered within the falling car market are that luxury cars, say Audi/Porsche/Lexus even VW/ Ford/GM are being cross shopped with down market EV or hybrids. You would have never bought an ICE version of the cheaper car, say Skoda or Hyundai, but the EV offers a greater gain, quietness/power than the luxury car can offer. In the same way you and the richest person in the world have the same smartphone. You can't change consumption if there is open supply and its fundamentally better for the user as we would just use a payphone on the street if purely if a än economic perspective is used. It also cripples the business model of ICE cars as they are left making weirder things to differentiate themselves. Many examples in business/culture where monopolies of resources or land were sidestepped.
You’ll notice that the intrest in big dollar Supercars peaked with the holy trinity, which was also the peak of top gear. I think the cancellation of top gear and the decline of the big dollar TH-cam productions/car throttle is primarily to blame. I used to look at Supercars like characters in a fighting game, and loved watching them duke it out in TG challenges and head-to-head. But with TG gone that really just leaves Jason’s shows on Hagerty, which don’t feature new Supercars (except McLarens, for reasons he’s explained in prior episodes).
Happy new year. The problem with the valhalla is they have made too many "limited editions" lately. If you look at the model history it was 6 years between the one-77 and the vulcan meanwhile in the last 6 years they have released the trio of vanquish Zagatos, the DBS GT Zagato, the speedster, the victor, the dbr22, the valour and the valiant. And now they want us to be excited about another "special" car?
About modern super/hyper cars. I don't think it is strictly price. I think it is also performance. Look back through history and it was their performance that set them apart. Well now that isn't the case anymore. You can get comparable or better performance in a straight line elsewhere and the only meaningful difference in handling relative to most cars is at speeds that a massive majority of the public just can't drive at because they don't have the skills/training to do so. You need to go around 80-100mph in a turn to really notice the performance difference of a supercar to a sports car. In the 90s when the Diablo was in production the "average" car acceleration wise went from around 10 seconds in the early 90s to around 7-8 seconds by the late 90s. The Diablo was doing anywhere from 4 to 5 seconds. Now? Most things are around 5 seconds with nearly everything "quick" being around 3 seconds. We have gotten to the point that we have serious performance saturation in the car industry. The calling card of super/hyper cars in the past just isn't a viable calling card anymore when a 7 seat 3 ton SUV can make said super/hyper car sweat in a drag race and most people can't tell the difference in handling between a Miata and an Aventador beyond the fact that the Lambo is stiff as all. I think this is why performance specific cars in general have been dying off the past 10ish years. The calling card for them just isn't meaningful anymore.
Ya know what I want? I want a light, brilliantly tuned suspension'd, great steering feel'd (early 2000's porsche caymen), $30k car that I can add power to by adding EV (somehow... maybe similar to how porsche is adding to new 911's) AND that does not add weight (that's the "your dreaming" part). Think about it: the ability to add 100, 200 hp to a light-weight mid-engined sports car like a Miata, or a cayman, or even a lotus, without adding weight. I hope that is where we end up soon, because I am retiring!
Hey @TheCarmudgeonShow, can you ask Jason or Derek what company they use to ship cars to Europe? I want to send my car from New York to Barcelona. Thank you.
@@TheCarmudgeonShow as a fan, I'm thrilled to have a podcast host answer me directly. That said, I can't find this company in my Google search. Do you happen to have a link or a phone number for them? Thanks guys (everyone involved in production).
So if you put a 'bunch of snakes' header on a flat-plane V8 then surely this would make it sound like a cross-plane V8? It would be really interesting if anyone has ever done this. Clearly there are performance gains from using a bunch of snakes on a cross-plane which is why Ford/Shelby did this with the GT40, but if anyone put a bunch of snakes on a flat-plane then this would be a deliberate decision to prioritize the exhaust sound over performance. However come to think about it I did choose to install a set of uneven lenght headers on my BRZ just because it sounds so great.
Modern Miuras transitioned to something which you cannot identify with and to something which is so advanced in terms of technology and assistance, that it sacrificed experience and soul, while driving up the price. I think the only big company which kept it's roots relatively intact is Porsche - they still produce small sports cars with incredible capabilities, good looks and they are still somehow not that expensive while delivering nice experience. Ok, base 911 is not that small, but its still a great sports car. I want Ferrari, Lamborghini to build cars more like Alpine A110, like Cayman, like Lotus Emira, but with italian design. I also want some insanity in form of TVR. I think this segment of sports cars delivering on pricing and experience while sacrificing some of the insane capabilities which noone uses in real life - would bring down supercar market. We need that. We need this new segment of no-compromise sports cars, but not supercars. I think if comapnies like Ferrari, Lamborghini, Aston Martin, etc made something smaller, cheaper, fun to drive and still sexy looking - we would be saved. 911/Caymans need some competition.
@@michalwilk4748 Because now they are spiritual successors to older supercars, and boxters/caymans are new small sports car class. Similar transition already happened before - 356 to 911. At least Porsche has created smaller class, unlike Lambos and Ferraris which are getting out of control in terms of size and money you have to pay for them.
I spent $1400 on a set of A/T Hankooks for my 2001 Excursion on stock rims so I guess it's all relative. I didn't want to put almost 8,000lbs (or more) on a set of $40 xyz brand semi-street or whatever from the corner 'tire shoppe'
48:21 arguably, the perceived waining interest in supercars as entertainment is mostly due to just how many there are at the moment. Every month it seems like 8 new super cars are released. That dissects people attention, especially when what people can see about them is shallow aswell. Not only is there too much to see but too little shown about them.
there are two reasons for which these type of hyper/super cars are not that interesting anymore for the general audience: 1stly, cheap speed is available with EVs; you can have supercar performance from 3 tons EV SUV..you shouldn't but, unfortunately it is available. 2ndly, the unobtainium factor; a 360/430 was what..~150k; one could hope that a 10 year old f430 would be purchasable below 100k mark; a 296 is 400k, a revuelto is 1 million...even in 10 years these cars will not be purchasable by the middle class and so, ppl start to lose interest.
A Chiron looks chubby to me and it is heavy! Last elegant looking mid engined sportscar? Honda NSX NA, McLaren F1,, Porsche Carrara GT, first gen Ford GT comes to my mind...
WHHAAATTTTTTT, I just noticed you guys only have 31k subscribers, WTH (what the heaven), I wouldn't miss you guys, let me know how I can help ????????????
In the American vernacular I know of no way to say this without it becoming an uneasy joke, which is not at all what I intend, but isn't it Jason's Mom whom we want to have at the table with Derrick's Dad?
Xj220 was elegant...stylistically. I tend to use elegance in aesthetic terms rather than holistic, mechanical, experiential terms, by which I would never have an opportunity to judge these cars. Mc20, evora, f1, and late esprit v8 would qualify. Carrera gt would if they hadn't hacked off the back of the cab...very un-finished looking to my eye.
Flat-plane crank V8s? Ferrari Tipo 8s - not 6s - were all f-p. Only changed to cross-plane for Lancia Thema V8. Later, the 458 had a f-p engine. Lamborghini? Only reference I can find, for them using a f-p, is for the Temerario. In mid-90s, Lotus' own V8 was also f-p.
Certain segments are suffer from looking the same from a profile POV. Hyper/super cars all look the same (ultimate form achieved) and EV’s all look like “ turtles ‘
57:58 it is not a great thing for the "consumer"...sure its better on the one front of buying crap but in every other sense loosing all that manufacturing and capabilities hurts a society that these "consumers" are part of...just look at what chasing cheaper jeans and clothes has done to the Midwest and South of this country....
I doubt nobody cares about the Revuelto when people are floored by SVJs still however gauche you'd think it is. Give it time. The Aventador wasn't as exciting as it became to look at or to drive, no Lambo is at launch I'm gonna say boldly with the faint exception of Miura if that counts. Also we're in the middle of a recession and these are kinda dinosaurs roaming the earth still, I'm glad they are! Edit: I dunno considering how many playboys in film rolled up in Miuras and like The Persuaders types pushing exotic cars it not having the yuppie appeal they later got, I contest that argument. The Miura was the first car I’d say made to be parked in Monte Carlo. I don't think you can understate the effect romance has too because say, The Italian Job Miura and it getting crushed soon after. Yeah I'm finding it hard to believe it was an inward looking car to the public at large when it made such a shock and a supercar should do that. You can say the pink Jaguar concept car is probably the most effective exercise in "shock factor" in a while ig.
All this to say: maybe being exposed to a Miura and driving one can lead you to the assessment that you're going through the misery for yourself but really, nobody ever bought a Lamborghini for that. Look at Rod Stewart owning two Miuras in period! If that's not gluttonous I don't know what is!
58:05 _it's a good thing for the consumers_ Well to be honest, if even the car industry leaves, fewer people will have a job and so fewer people will be able to afford a new car, even a cheaper chinese car. This ruins more than it does good for the customers. (also i am fairly against financing a totalitarian regime when i can avoid it) Also for VW: they absolutely have no clue about their customers. Two days ago they advertized on a newspaper here in central europe, for the "new rabbit hybrid" and proudly put "made i europe" next to the car. People want their Golf to be made in germany, not just made in europe. Sure it's better than made in china, as this means people in europe have jobs, but still, people who buy a german car want it to be made in germany. If "made in europe would be enough for VW buyers, they could buy Kia or Hyunday, both have production facilities for their Golf comeptition in europe too. And people who want something from the VW conglomerate but don'T care about the made in germany already go for Skoda or Seat anyways. VW really got a bunch of clueless people in recent years in the upper management it seems.
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Jake must be past his employment probationary period as I've not see any silly/hilarious editing in the past few pod episodes compared to earlier this year, which is disappointing as that made a nice touch. Also some interior inserts of the diablo would have been nice when they were discussing it multiple times
Please PLEASE don’t buy a Ford Model A. You’ll just run up the prices and never get your money out of it. Instead you can drive mine and get it out of your system.
Jason knows a lot more about cars than I do, but I think that he needs to check his date about the introduction of the flat-plane V8. TTBOMK, the first flat-plane crank V8 engine was introduced by Cadillac in 1923, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat-plane_crank
54:00 - Re. Lambo's tumult / tragic-comedy through 80s? (and 70s _and_ early 90s....) Tough times for manufacturers usually - unsurprisingly - go hand in hand with tough times for the economies of major western nations. So, off the top of my head: 70s: Earlier, mostly okay as Japan, Germany boomed, Britain flat, France Italy up and down. Later, Oil Crisis caused inflation and weak/stagnant economic conditions in Murrrca and much of Europe, especially '74-'75. Some nations had 1 or more recessions. 80s: Major downturns/recessions again in '80-'82, then growth years - some strong, some weak - then mild recession in '87. Some belated Euro political optimism briefly, and Japan continued booming, selling and spending, until... 90s: Japan's first recession in '90. Another downturn and major recessions in '91-'93. Hell, even Porsche was struggling to survive! Western war in/with Middle-East prompted some recovery for parts of Murrrcan economy, so highest consuming nation began spending (even) more again. 😐 2025 prospects for Lambo and auto market? Two things make this really hard: • After 2-3 yrs of strong economic growth for Murrrca and east Asia, the imminent Heritage Foundation administration is causing profound uncertainty and looming instability. • Foundational shift as China moves from car consumer, to EV car maker/seller. Beyond? Will Murrrca and other nations have m¡croprocessor production up, before Ch¡na clamps down, h@cks, @nnexes or inv@des T@iwan into submission. Also, will middle class of India become a (car consuming) thing?
I bought a set of vredestien tires and it saved my marriage.
'Splain, Lucy...this story is either hilarious or tragic. Either way, context would be entertaining.
@JayPeezySLC, she demanded a better tire...
I bought a set and it cured my blindness.
My Vredestien tires eliminated the gopher problem in my backyard.
As soon as I put on the Vredesteins, my shoulders went back, and I stood taller! Women in the street would catch my eye, and my boss finally noticed me at work. In fact, we're meeting this afternoon to discuss my new promotion. All - thanks to Vredestein! ✨🤩
Took a month for TH-cam to finally recommend DTS's new channel.
Can you share the channel name? 🧐
@@rijksenm01 @otsandco
@@rijksenm01”OTS”
@@rijksenm01 OTS, you search OTS lamborghini and you will find it
@@rijksenm01 do a search for OTS and you'll see the grey Lamborghini Diablo featured on last week's show
Bring Derek's dad to the show and make him clap 😂
Let's make it , bring your Dad to work day if they are still with us and functional. Doesn't need to be the full hour or so, whatever they can handle. Happy New Year 🎉
Thanks to Need for Speed in the 90s and early 2000S, the Diablo will always hold a special place in my heart.
That! NFS 3 Hot Pursuit rule. I'll never forget intro to this game. Only reason I want yellow Diablo SV :D
For iconic cars - those that became famous in posters on bedroom walls (930, Countach, 'Vette, myriad Ferrari, early Viper maybe?) - the equivalent is inclusion in driving games.
🤦♂️ Am probably _years_ late in realising this reincarnation. 😅
Fun fact: The Need for Speed series has exclusive rights to feature Lamborghini and Porsche (and possibly Ferrari?), which is why you'll never see those brands in other series. Gran Turismo included RUF specifically because they couldn't include Porsche.
Just wanted to say thanks for all the excellent pods and shows this year, you guys have really knocked it out the park! Have a happy new year lads🎉
It's an absolute joy to listen to you two! Keep up the good work and Happy new year!
yes, please talk about the new prado. i watched the icon's ep and throttle house just released a car of the year video where the prado was a runner up and the guys said quite the opposite to what jason said: that the engine is fine enough and what especially surprised me is that it rides better than the gx. so it'll be interesting to see the discussion about it. and thank you for all the amazing content through out the year guys. looking forward to more exciting stuff next year. happy new year!
As someone with a deposit on one, and Toyota not being able to hold onto one long enough for me to test drive, it’s really annoying.
The difference between Cammisa’s and THs experiences is precisely why its important to always have multiple reviewers you fuccs with
Best car content of 2024. Please don't change.
The Urraco, Jalpa, etc are all cross plane. If you look up photos of urraco engines or look at the parts catalogues/diagrams they all have cross plane crankshafts. Maybe there was a flat plane engine in development that the v16 took parts from? I’m hoping to own a urraco within the next few years and have done a ton of research.
In the lineage of "circle cars" - VW Beetle, Audi TT, Veyron/Chiron - there was also the (first generation) Audi R8. And I'd humbly offer it up as an example of an elegant mid-engined car.
Congrats Jason. That is one of the rarest and most beautiful collecting worthy Lamborghini ever produced.
The point about modern super/hyper cars being too expensive to be relateable is so so true, it's cost, rarity and selective ownership that has killed it for me. Why should I care about a car that I'll never see and can never even dream of owning? The 12 cilindri is bite the back of your hand pretty, but it's also complete unobtainium, I'd be much more interested in an Alpine A220, give that thing a manual and a more interesting motor (Audi 5 pot would be ideal) and I'd start thinking about selling my organs for one. edit: a new 40k-60k rx7 with a rotary would kill in this market, with all cars becoming facsimiles of each other, something that is completely different would certainly scratch an itch for modern enthusiasts.
I can’t imagine super cars in any era being relatable or obtainable. These products are luxury items for the wealthy first and foremost. For the rest of us its good entertainment
well said; and you saved me the time of having to write something similar myself. on a related note: we recently saw a 1990s Nissan 300ZX in a parking garage recently and it attracted a lot of attention. uber-expensive cars that all perform similarly has become boring youtube fodder. distinctive automobiles will always generate interest. sadly, today's supercars do not.
Also a little bit of a side note, I used to work in a swiss Lamborghini Dealership as a mechanic (this was around the time where the Aventador SV came out) and worked there for a while. We had Centenarios, every Aventador,huracan, gallardo you could think of and the occasional murci's (mainly 6.2's) + surprisingly a ton of Countaches, Miuras and Espadas.
But the car that stuck to me the most was a yellow Diablo GTR, it was the only Diablo I had seen during my time there and our boss had to take it for a few spins, mind you hes normally as composed as one can be, he came back shaking and trembling out of that thing. Also it was the bees knees to look at (viola SE30's are still my favourites).
Edit: Jason, that swiss/french joke made me chuckle 😂😂😂
Hellooo Jason and also hellooo to Derek!
I wish everyone a very happy new year 🎉
The anti 1%/ultra wealthy sentiment is definitely a significant factor. It's not just that people are no longer interested in praising those individuals. It's also the fact that more and more people are recognizing how they have fucked society and the planet over.
100%. These cars are now symbols of oppression, so when I see one, I immediately call the owner a tax evading twat (e.g. Montana license plates). So why should we be interested in these ultra wealthy shitheads' toys? Sure as an 8 year old I could have all the facts of every supercar memorized, but now, nah. They're all toys for bad people.
Can one really even comment on the performance of a car if the tires are 10 years old? That would change every aspect of the driving experience, including the ride quality.
That's the reality of journalism and car brokerage, the respective careers of the hosts. You don't own the car, and do not have the right to change it's configuration. But you are expected to drive it (even at the risk of writing it off) and pass judgement on it.
@@peterv5063 I respect that, and to their credit it was addressed in their discussion about their feeling on its performance, just not directly associated as far as I understood the conversation. I will need to listen again because I could have just missed it with the podcast on in the background.
Love to see a show about the history of affordable mid engine cars.
Derek, some cars that I think get street credit from everyone like the Muira:
1970s Aston Martin V8 Vantage
Ferrari F40
McLaren F1
Toyota 2000GT
And since it’s CarWeek and there’s a chance they are real…
Ford GT40
Shelby Cobra
any Morgan also inspires universal approval
we need hyphen senior on the show
I remember reading or seeing on original MT TV that Lamborghini before VAG and consequently the Diablo drove completely different model to model depending on how many glasses of wine the Italians had during that days lunch. Some wanted to kill you with oversteer others would only understeer. I never forgot that. It was hilarious to me.
Just bought a set of Vredestein Wintrac Pro’s and love them! Perfect for Michigan winters.
1971 V-6 Dino. More like this. Steered a gorgeous orange Miura in 1968 down a dock at night in a snowstorm, pushed by several stevadores getting in place to be loaded on a ship. 🙂
"Miura being the inspiration for modern V12 Lamborghinis" is actually very interesting. Other than some sort of vaguely italian looking, sorta-Aston Martin shaped outline nothing pops into my head.
Agreed - I tend to think of the Countach when it comes to that. Insane angular looking bodywork, longitudinal mid-mounted V12, distinctly Lamborghini. Don't get me wrong, the Miura is stunningly beautiful and makes wonderful noises, but the lineage of the newer cars speaks to me more as deriving from the Countach.
Chiron doesn't look as gross to me as when I discovered it for the first time, but it being elegant was a bit of a tea-spitting statement.
You know what would help automakers sell cars? Higher wages. If your company is spending more on stock buybacks than pay raises, as is every other company, you're taking money out of the pockets of your customer base.
You want the ice ban to stay? Ten years is not enough time for the general public to access the ev market without being forced into public transit until prices come down. Not to mention the completely screwed electrical grid in Cali that already experiences rolling grid failures everytime the temps rise? The necessary outcome of forced reduction of personal ownership and controlled movement of the populace is revolting...and still won't affect the desired reduction of emissions to anywhere near the levels they say are needed. Still love your content. The depth of detail you two can discuss individual models as well as larger economic concerns and corporate matters is always entertaining and enlightening.
As a buddy of mine leans over, reads my tire wall and goes " WTF kind of tires you got on this thing?" I get to proudly say "Vredestein"
55:45 The auto industry has so few players now that when things get rocky, the issues will be felt industry wide.
Hey Jason, maybe i'm just in time for your V16T video research: About the first flatplane crank V8 discussion at the end of the video, never forget about Alfa Romeo in these kind of "first of anything car engineering related" discussions. In 1967 Alfa put a racecar derived 2.0 liter flatplane crank DOHC V8 into argubly one of the most elegant midengined roadcar "carrozeria's" ever made, the 33 Stradale. The tiny V8 made a specific output of 115ps/L or 230ps in total, and revved to 10k rpm! In a car that only weighs 700kg, that would be still an absolute hoot to drive today, let alone imagine what this would have been in 1967!
Nice! I got to briefly drive a friends Diablo. Very cool experience. Couldn't wear shoes in it. I think I revved it higher than the owner ever had, which was only 7k rpm.
Strangely the regular Diablo I drove didn't spin the (very old) tires at all in 2nd, it was barely faster than my 987 Cayman S. Sounded great though!
As mentioned last video....I also used to have a Beat...which was the best slowest car ever.
The Diablo GT is one of my favorite Lamborghinis. That is mainly down to me not having driven any of them, so all my opinions around them are just formed by what I know about them and how they look. And the GT looks absolutely perfectly bonkers.
Dog leg 1st. It's like someone burping before they kiss you.
happy new year fellas
Countach was outrageous-looking as a project directive, as per Paolo Stanzani's request to Marcelo Gandini: "Lo piu esasperato possibile". And this was stated by Stanzani himself in an interview.
Came to the TH-cam version after work just to see the Diablo.
Jason MOG'd Derek with that alpha hand clap.
We need an episode with -sr
Pretty please, with a cherry on top
Rumour at the time was the initial design of the Miura was by Giugiaro before he left Bertone and Gandini took over as head designer.
Are we going to see a new Revelations episode about the Diablo? YES, PLEASE!
Should probably be Icons, no? Would be awesome to have a segment referencing the SE30 Jota and Jay Kay (Jamiroquai) using one in his album Traveling Without Moving 😁
@aprtur Icons usually about a new car. Maybe if Jason reviews the new Revuelto, then we might see this Diablo in it.
Vredstein tires cured my traction
So, is Vredestein compensating Jason and Derek in money or tires? Is this a barter thing?
Pretty interesting that cars manufacturers are adopting flat plane crank for smoother power delivery I suppose, while motorcycles are going the opposite direction, switching to uneven firing order to add more "characters".
Last time I was this early Adam Sandler still owned 12 cars!
if Mr. Deeds is to believed they're all red convertible Corvettes
Fun fact - Hoosier slicks in 335/30-18 are roughly 30% less expensive than the Pirelli P Zeros that are out there. Tell the new owner to put it on the slicks and drive the hell out of it 😁
The Testarossa is a very elegant mid-engined car.
Great POD episode, the Lamborghini Diablo most iconic Lambo just because of movie Wolf of Wall Street 😂😂.
Still waiting for episode on Hyundai N division 🤟😍😊
The Viper is one of the few cars all car people respect. Gen 2 and Gen 5 are my personal favorites.
296 as an elegant mid engined car makes sense to me, re ~minute 46
25:48 - 350kph is 217.48mph...nice "or something like that" Derek 😂
(never stop being you!)
I would add the Murcielago to the list of elegant mid-engine cars.
F355 berlinetta was/is elegant.
Partly it’s the persona of the TH-camrs that are buying a new Supercar every other week that is killing the niche. “Hi it’s meeeee with my new Supercar… watch me get a new wrap on it now!” Just ugh!!!!
"Only 47 Lamborghinis in my Lamborghini account...."
Part of the problem for new super cars is that they keep being drag raced against practical family EVs that are neck and neck. I grew up with Ferrari posters on my wall, but at this point no part of me wants a new Ferrari. Now I look at BAT and Hemmings for things older than I am
Mr. Tam-Scott Sr. on the show or we riot
Would also love an episode discussing and compiling the evidence of a global malaise/british leyland 2 in the auto industry. Between direct injected Toyotas experiencing unprecedented recalls and dealer lots sitting with stagnant product for most of this year, what does that mean for the next ten or fifteen years of automotive law and industry?
Does it still have the carbon fibre briefcase in the front
I seem to be one of the only people who likes the new 12cilindri and F80 design language from Ferrari.
Elegant Modern Mid-engined cars would be the T.33 for me, and potentially the Emira
We need Derek and jason fathers on the show
Areas that should be considered within the falling car market are that luxury cars, say Audi/Porsche/Lexus even VW/ Ford/GM are being cross shopped with down market EV or hybrids. You would have never bought an ICE version of the cheaper car, say Skoda or Hyundai, but the EV offers a greater gain, quietness/power than the luxury car can offer. In the same way you and the richest person in the world have the same smartphone. You can't change consumption if there is open supply and its fundamentally better for the user as we would just use a payphone on the street if purely if a än economic perspective is used. It also cripples the business model of ICE cars as they are left making weirder things to differentiate themselves. Many examples in business/culture where monopolies of resources or land were sidestepped.
Come on lets have Derek's dad.. 😀
You’ll notice that the intrest in big dollar Supercars peaked with the holy trinity, which was also the peak of top gear. I think the cancellation of top gear and the decline of the big dollar TH-cam productions/car throttle is primarily to blame.
I used to look at Supercars like characters in a fighting game, and loved watching them duke it out in TG challenges and head-to-head. But with TG gone that really just leaves Jason’s shows on Hagerty, which don’t feature new Supercars (except McLarens, for reasons he’s explained in prior episodes).
Happy new year. The problem with the valhalla is they have made too many "limited editions" lately. If you look at the model history it was 6 years between the one-77 and the vulcan meanwhile in the last 6 years they have released the trio of vanquish Zagatos, the DBS GT Zagato, the speedster, the victor, the dbr22, the valour and the valiant. And now they want us to be excited about another "special" car?
About modern super/hyper cars. I don't think it is strictly price. I think it is also performance. Look back through history and it was their performance that set them apart. Well now that isn't the case anymore. You can get comparable or better performance in a straight line elsewhere and the only meaningful difference in handling relative to most cars is at speeds that a massive majority of the public just can't drive at because they don't have the skills/training to do so. You need to go around 80-100mph in a turn to really notice the performance difference of a supercar to a sports car.
In the 90s when the Diablo was in production the "average" car acceleration wise went from around 10 seconds in the early 90s to around 7-8 seconds by the late 90s. The Diablo was doing anywhere from 4 to 5 seconds. Now? Most things are around 5 seconds with nearly everything "quick" being around 3 seconds. We have gotten to the point that we have serious performance saturation in the car industry. The calling card of super/hyper cars in the past just isn't a viable calling card anymore when a 7 seat 3 ton SUV can make said super/hyper car sweat in a drag race and most people can't tell the difference in handling between a Miata and an Aventador beyond the fact that the Lambo is stiff as all. I think this is why performance specific cars in general have been dying off the past 10ish years. The calling card for them just isn't meaningful anymore.
Ya know what I want? I want a light, brilliantly tuned suspension'd, great steering feel'd (early 2000's porsche caymen), $30k car that I can add power to by adding EV (somehow... maybe similar to how porsche is adding to new 911's) AND that does not add weight (that's the "your dreaming" part). Think about it: the ability to add 100, 200 hp to a light-weight mid-engined sports car like a Miata, or a cayman, or even a lotus, without adding weight. I hope that is where we end up soon, because I am retiring!
Hey @TheCarmudgeonShow, can you ask Jason or Derek what company they use to ship cars to Europe? I want to send my car from New York to Barcelona. Thank you.
Derek might have a different answer, but I (Jason) have used Coddle with great success.
@@TheCarmudgeonShow as a fan, I'm thrilled to have a podcast host answer me directly. That said, I can't find this company in my Google search. Do you happen to have a link or a phone number for them? Thanks guys (everyone involved in production).
So if you put a 'bunch of snakes' header on a flat-plane V8 then surely this would make it sound like a cross-plane V8? It would be really interesting if anyone has ever done this. Clearly there are performance gains from using a bunch of snakes on a cross-plane which is why Ford/Shelby did this with the GT40, but if anyone put a bunch of snakes on a flat-plane then this would be a deliberate decision to prioritize the exhaust sound over performance. However come to think about it I did choose to install a set of uneven lenght headers on my BRZ just because it sounds so great.
First Flatplane V8 1909 my friend
Disappointed there weren't mentions of Nissan headlights in regards of Lamborghini cost saving. Good convo nonetheless!
We need thoughts on the Honda / Nissan / Mitsubishi merger gentlemen.
Modern Miuras transitioned to something which you cannot identify with and to something which is so advanced in terms of technology and assistance, that it sacrificed experience and soul, while driving up the price.
I think the only big company which kept it's roots relatively intact is Porsche - they still produce small sports cars with incredible capabilities, good looks and they are still somehow not that expensive while delivering nice experience. Ok, base 911 is not that small, but its still a great sports car. I want Ferrari, Lamborghini to build cars more like Alpine A110, like Cayman, like Lotus Emira, but with italian design. I also want some insanity in form of TVR. I think this segment of sports cars delivering on pricing and experience while sacrificing some of the insane capabilities which noone uses in real life - would bring down supercar market. We need that. We need this new segment of no-compromise sports cars, but not supercars. I think if comapnies like Ferrari, Lamborghini, Aston Martin, etc made something smaller, cheaper, fun to drive and still sexy looking - we would be saved. 911/Caymans need some competition.
Porsches are huge now twice a wide as in the aircooled era
@@michalwilk4748 Because now they are spiritual successors to older supercars, and boxters/caymans are new small sports car class. Similar transition already happened before - 356 to 911. At least Porsche has created smaller class, unlike Lambos and Ferraris which are getting out of control in terms of size and money you have to pay for them.
Derecks and Jason’s Mom!!
I bought some Vredestiens and then Mr. Bibendum tried to fight me.
I spent $1400 on a set of A/T Hankooks for my 2001 Excursion on stock rims so I guess it's all relative. I didn't want to put almost 8,000lbs (or more) on a set of $40 xyz brand semi-street or whatever from the corner 'tire shoppe'
48:21 arguably, the perceived waining interest in supercars as entertainment is mostly due to just how many there are at the moment. Every month it seems like 8 new super cars are released. That dissects people attention, especially when what people can see about them is shallow aswell. Not only is there too much to see but too little shown about them.
there are two reasons for which these type of hyper/super cars are not that interesting anymore for the general audience:
1stly, cheap speed is available with EVs; you can have supercar performance from 3 tons EV SUV..you shouldn't but, unfortunately it is available.
2ndly, the unobtainium factor; a 360/430 was what..~150k; one could hope that a 10 year old f430 would be purchasable below 100k mark; a 296 is 400k, a revuelto is 1 million...even in 10 years these cars will not be purchasable by the middle class and so, ppl start to lose interest.
Luxury goods are either an expression of waiting or restriction.
45:45 Lotus Emira maybe?
A Chiron looks chubby to me and it is heavy! Last elegant looking mid engined sportscar? Honda NSX NA, McLaren F1,, Porsche Carrara GT, first gen Ford GT comes to my mind...
WHHAAATTTTTTT, I just noticed you guys only have 31k subscribers, WTH (what the heaven), I wouldn't miss you guys, let me know how I can help ????????????
In the American vernacular I know of no way to say this without it becoming an uneasy joke, which is not at all what I intend, but isn't it Jason's Mom whom we want to have at the table with Derrick's Dad?
First here, Happy New year guys❤.
I thought I was first 😂😂
Happy new year
The new isssmi video’s are boring commercial shit. Love you guys for still talking bs
Xj220 was elegant...stylistically. I tend to use elegance in aesthetic terms rather than holistic, mechanical, experiential terms, by which I would never have an opportunity to judge these cars. Mc20, evora, f1, and late esprit v8 would qualify. Carrera gt would if they hadn't hacked off the back of the cab...very un-finished looking to my eye.
The XJ220 is dumpy and looks overweight.
Flat-plane crank V8s? Ferrari Tipo 8s - not 6s - were all f-p. Only changed to cross-plane for Lancia Thema V8. Later, the 458 had a f-p engine.
Lamborghini? Only reference I can find, for them using a f-p, is for the Temerario.
In mid-90s, Lotus' own V8 was also f-p.
1:55 These are business expenses🙄
The biggest problem for Supercars is that they're get beat by daily driven blenders(EVs). Which takes the shine off for the masses to aspire to...
20:00 Diablo: Apply Directly to the Forehead
Certain segments are suffer from looking the same from a profile POV. Hyper/super cars all look the same (ultimate form achieved) and EV’s all look like “ turtles ‘
Vredestein might be good (I don’t know), but would I buy them over PS4S? Hellz No! Maybe on my shitbox winter car.
57:58 it is not a great thing for the "consumer"...sure its better on the one front of buying crap but in every other sense loosing all that manufacturing and capabilities hurts a society that these "consumers" are part of...just look at what chasing cheaper jeans and clothes has done to the Midwest and South of this country....
I doubt nobody cares about the Revuelto when people are floored by SVJs still however gauche you'd think it is. Give it time. The Aventador wasn't as exciting as it became to look at or to drive, no Lambo is at launch I'm gonna say boldly with the faint exception of Miura if that counts.
Also we're in the middle of a recession and these are kinda dinosaurs roaming the earth still, I'm glad they are!
Edit: I dunno considering how many playboys in film rolled up in Miuras and like The Persuaders types pushing exotic cars it not having the yuppie appeal they later got, I contest that argument.
The Miura was the first car I’d say made to be parked in Monte Carlo. I don't think you can understate the effect romance has too because say, The Italian Job Miura and it getting crushed soon after. Yeah I'm finding it hard to believe it was an inward looking car to the public at large when it made such a shock and a supercar should do that.
You can say the pink Jaguar concept car is probably the most effective exercise in "shock factor" in a while ig.
All this to say: maybe being exposed to a Miura and driving one can lead you to the assessment that you're going through the misery for yourself but really, nobody ever bought a Lamborghini for that. Look at Rod Stewart owning two Miuras in period! If that's not gluttonous I don't know what is!
58:05 _it's a good thing for the consumers_ Well to be honest, if even the car industry leaves, fewer people will have a job and so fewer people will be able to afford a new car, even a cheaper chinese car. This ruins more than it does good for the customers.
(also i am fairly against financing a totalitarian regime when i can avoid it) Also for VW: they absolutely have no clue about their customers. Two days ago they advertized on a newspaper here in central europe, for the "new rabbit hybrid" and proudly put "made i europe" next to the car. People want their Golf to be made in germany, not just made in europe. Sure it's better than made in china, as this means people in europe have jobs, but still, people who buy a german car want it to be made in germany. If "made in europe would be enough for VW buyers, they could buy Kia or Hyunday, both have production facilities for their Golf comeptition in europe too. And people who want something from the VW conglomerate but don'T care about the made in germany already go for Skoda or Seat anyways.
VW really got a bunch of clueless people in recent years in the upper management it seems.
Jake must be past his employment probationary period as I've not see any silly/hilarious editing in the past few pod episodes compared to earlier this year, which is disappointing as that made a nice touch. Also some interior inserts of the diablo would have been nice when they were discussing it multiple times
Automobiling😂😂😂 only DEREK would say that given that he was born in 1901.
Please STOP teasing with the Cizeta!
Porsche 'weenies'. Is this a German term meaning, 'really cool person' ?
Please PLEASE don’t buy a Ford Model A. You’ll just run up the prices and never get your money out of it. Instead you can drive mine and get it out of your system.
Jason knows a lot more about cars than I do, but I think that he needs to check his date about the introduction of the flat-plane V8. TTBOMK, the first flat-plane crank V8 engine was introduced by Cadillac in 1923,
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat-plane_crank
54:00 - Re. Lambo's tumult / tragic-comedy through 80s? (and 70s _and_ early 90s....)
Tough times for manufacturers usually - unsurprisingly - go hand in hand with tough times for the economies of major western nations. So, off the top of my head:
70s: Earlier, mostly okay as Japan, Germany boomed, Britain flat, France Italy up and down. Later, Oil Crisis caused inflation and weak/stagnant economic conditions in Murrrca and much of Europe, especially '74-'75. Some nations had 1 or more recessions.
80s: Major downturns/recessions again in '80-'82, then growth years - some strong, some weak - then mild recession in '87. Some belated Euro political optimism briefly, and Japan continued booming, selling and spending, until...
90s: Japan's first recession in '90. Another downturn and major recessions in '91-'93. Hell, even Porsche was struggling to survive! Western war in/with Middle-East prompted some recovery for parts of Murrrcan economy, so highest consuming nation began spending (even) more again. 😐
2025 prospects for Lambo and auto market? Two things make this really hard:
• After 2-3 yrs of strong economic growth for Murrrca and east Asia, the imminent Heritage Foundation administration is causing profound uncertainty and looming instability.
• Foundational shift as China moves from car consumer, to EV car maker/seller.
Beyond? Will Murrrca and other nations have m¡croprocessor production up, before Ch¡na clamps down, h@cks, @nnexes or inv@des T@iwan into submission.
Also, will middle class of India become a (car consuming) thing?