To anyone reading this who hasn’t watched the AC6 video yet, PLEASE DO. It is by far one of the best videos Vaati and his team have ever produced. It isn’t nearly doing the numbers it deserves.
Lobos! Idk, Idc if you dont read replies, just wanna say you were may introduction to watching livestreams. I started with your Daughters of Ash mod for DS1! Love ya bro
The red gate of bodies is shaped almost exactly the same as the gate through which you enter the Erdtree. In game, you don't directly physically enter the Erdtree, but teleport via a golden seal. Leyndell and Altus have the iconic golden sky and clouds as well. This to me looks like the first scene takes place inside the Erdtree, physically, before the gate was sealed. And Marika is lifting the rune arc as to show it to the world outside. Also, the Erdtree absorbs bodies in current timelime, so it would not be surprising if it originally sprouted, or was built from a mass of bodies. And Miquella watered the Haligtree, another sapling of Erdtree, with his own blood. It all connects quite well I think
If that's a key part of growing an Erdtree - is it possible that Mogh was somehow (likely unknowingly) feeding blood to the Haligtree? It's said that Miquella watered it with his blood since it was a sapling but to grow to the size it is surely more than just Miquella's would have been required.
@@NihilistCrab Or maybe Blood of an Empyrean is just a bit more potent than one would imagine, iirc the Haligtree existed in its current form already when Mohg came to kidnap Miquella, so I don't think Mohg played a part in that
I think it's shaped like one side of the hilt of the sacred relic sword, the other side looks like the shadow tree and the description mentions, sin, beginning, and stuff like that
Um actually, he's saying it probably *will* make so much sense after you play it, as in, it doesn't actually make much sense to him (relatively) yet, either.
The line “…an affair through which gold arose and so too was shadow born” indicates that before gold and shadow existed as contrasting concepts they were one. I believe that Marika acting on behalf of the greater will, sealed off shadow from gold and what we see in the trailer is her in the process of closing a gateway between the two realms. The tree we see in the land of shadow is split down the middle and golden sap seems to be oozing from in. I believe that one faction wants to open this gateway, while another is trying to keep it shut and that the tree that coils around the split tree and that most people thought was trying to consume the other tree is in fact trying to pry it open or perhaps more likely keep it shut. We know the game world as the lands between, perhaps because it exits between shadow and gold. There is some cut dialogue from the Godrick’s dying monologue: “There is only one tree, and only its branches. That bathe in true rays of gold. Not the fool Omen King. Nor the rank malformed twins.” The trees he’ referring to must be the Erdtree and Miquella’s haligtree, suggesting then that at some point in the production of the game there may have been a third, TRUE tree and perhaps the line of returning together to our home bathed in rays of gold isn’t referring to Leyndell, but to a realm of gold where this third tree is located. Messmer being a child of Marika or Radagon seems all but certain and I believe him to be the firstborn child of Marika and Radagon. First, because all the other unions resulted in three children, and just like Malenia and Miquella, his name starts with an M, but also because there are three different types of butterflies; the aeonian that relates to Malenia and the nascent that relates Miquella, the smoldering then relating to Messmer and his flame seems like too good of a fit not to be the case. If this is the case then it would stand to reason that he is also cursed in some way and one thing I took note of back when he was revealed is how different aspects of him is very similar to other characters. His spear is very similar to Mohgwyn’s sacred spear, he has what looks like several small dragon wings and a large snake that is either coiling around him or is part of him. Could it be that his curse is that he is influenced by several outer gods at once, that perhaps several has within him, joined forces to oppose the greater will or that he is able to wield their power, while not be under their influences? Part of the description of Mohgwyn’s sacred spear reads; “…it is an instrument of communion with an outer god who bestows power upon accursed blood” referring to The formless mother, the dragon wings could be a sign of the god to whom Placidusax served as Elden lord, the snake is the serpent god and his fire could potentially come from the fell god. I’ve had a theory for quite some time that Marika herself became an unwilling participant in the golden order. That the seduction mentioned in the trailer refer to how the greater will seduced Marika in order to serve its purpose and that the manifestation of Radagon, was a means for the greater will to take full control. This would then be why Marika once she understood that she had been used, tried to shatter the Elden ring only for Radagon to try to repair it. Another strong symbolism of this is how the statues of Marika and Radagon differ from each other. Marika has her arms stretched out in the same pose that she is shackled inside of the Erdtree as if she is forcibly taking that pose, while Radagon takes it willingly. If the pose is a symbol for the golden order and the greater will and their relationship to it, then it would be a strong symbol of them relating to it in very different ways. The goal of the greater will is after all perfect order, but how can that be if it isn’t in full control. I believe that the purpose for the greater will with the different unions of Marika and Radagon, first with Godfrey, then Rennala and finally between the two different aspects of the same entity, was to produce a new even stronger Empyrean through which it could act. Once Marika understood that the greater will had been using her and was trying to replace her, she may have been involved in or even orchestrated the plot to assassinate Godwyn, since if his soul died and the body of Ranni died, neither would be a suitable vassal for the greater will to bend to its will. Mohg and Morgott would not have been options either on account of them being omen. Rykard was also part of the plot and may have been unsuitable because of how he had already started to stray from the golden order in favor of the serpent god. Why Radahn was unsuitable is harder to answer, but he idolized Godfrey and showed no true loyalty towards the golden order. Malenia was unsuitable because of her affliction of scarlet rot, leaving only Miquella, who once he realized that the golden order couldn’t heal his sister and how his love and empathy was in conflict with the golden order’s treatment of omen and the misbegotten also abandoned the golden order and perhaps made himself an unsuitable host through his departure to the realm of shadows. This obviously just a lot of wild theories and there are plenty of gaps and unanswered questions that remain, but it’s fun to speculate. Thanks if you made it this far.
I've been waiting for this. It's funny how so many were too, seeing the comments for the trailers. You've become a central part of the Soulsborne franchise
Become? There was a point where he was pretty much the only one that seemed to get recommended when you asked about an explanation of Soulsborne lore (eventhough there were many other capable people). I feel like Elden Ring really started to show us many new faces and made old ones more popular.
@@Romapolitan Absolutely! Shout out to Smoughtown. They did a trailer analysis as well that is definitely worth checking out for those who havent already
@@Romapolitan True, he was a pillar already. But recently he has improved his work significantly, especially with the Armoured Core vid. That and the fact Bandai Namco made him the presenter for one of the Elden Ring trailers
@@MonkeyDLuffy-fl3eb Oh yeah, I saw someone react to his Dark Souls 3 videos and with his Hawkwood video you see the turning point where his videos would take the more cinematic approach he is known for today.
I wonder if Miquella wasn’t kidnapped by Mohg, but instead planned it with Mohg for him to steal him away. If Miquella found out/figured out it required a lot of bodies or blood to create an Erdtree than who better to help him with it than the blood lord himself, and it would makes Mohg’s proclamation make more sense when he says “this is the beginning of our dynasty” when it actually was, because they’re working together.
I very much agree. I always wondered why the strongest person in the lands between, who never knew defeat, isn't going to get him, no, she specificially says, she awaits him. Like, she knows where he is, she sits chilled in her chair, sleeping, waiting. Not bothered by anything.
@@allimJ I really hope From Soft pulls a fast one on us this time and allows us to spare the life of a boss, and we can actually reunite the siblings when we achieve Miquella's ending. Maybe even try to rekindle the plan to bring Godwyn back from the dead. Maybe Miyazaki finally learned how to make at least *some* happy endings lol.
@@theenderdestruction2362 😂 Yeah your absolutely right. This might have taken years of careful planning and sacrifice all undone by an amnesic hobo who killed Mohg simply because we could.
Except the Remembrance of the Blood Lord reads as such "Wishing to raise Miquella to full godhood, Mohg wished to become his consort, taking the role of monarch. **But no matter how much of his bloody bedchamber he tried to share, he received no response from the young Empyrean.**"
It actually looks as though the dead lion dancers (in the wide shot) are actually 3 separate lion costumes with two operators per lion. Each cape has two spears holding them up, one body per spear.
Good catch. I like to imagine they aren't even two people but rather a hideous amalgam of multiple human torsoes and bodies like the revenants and the grafted scions. I think the scions are created in imitation of these original amalgamations.
21:07 I think we've actually already seen five of these NPCs, not four! You didn't mention the martial artist with the black coat and flat hat who was seen in the previous trailer battling a knight... provided that was indeed this NPC and not a player wearing their clothes...
We've seen 6 actually. The cloaked one 2nd from the right is who was standing in Mohg's bossroom at the start of the gameplay trailer. The hem of the cloak and the boots doesn't match Melina's whatsoever (Melina's cloak is a featureless wool cloak, and her boots are the Traveler's set boots) and we have to realize that for many players going into the dlc: Melina is a pile of ashes.
A little pop etymology: Gloam is not a color. 'Gloam' is a verb meaning to darken toward night (and it's a noun, but we'll get to that in a bit). 'Gloaming' is a noun meaning twilight or dusk. So you could say something like, "Inside the portal shines a golden sky in opposition to the gloaming sky without." Consequently, in modern English, the Gloam-Eyed Queen should really be the Gloaming-Eyed Queen, but to make matters more complicated--'gloam' was once a noun meaning the same thing as 'gloaming'. But since the events with the Queen take place long ago, an archaic noun actually fits for her. Both 'gloam' and 'gloaming' trace back to Old English 'glōm', meaning twilight or dusk.
That scene looks like Marika sealing off the Land of Shadow from the Lands Between like a fkin oblivion gate. Possibly with some sort of Griffith-esque sacrifice
something that wanst mentioned: The roman looking soldiers of Messmers Army have a lot in common to Ds Twinned Armor, the helmet especially has the same kind of bronze faceplate and trimming.
I have been playing with this set lately, and while it may be a bit hard to spot due to wear, I think you can see snakes around the symbol in the cape.
20:23 Instead of sites of grace, I think its very likely that those Miquella "checkpoints" are the source of the "new way of powering up" Miazaki talks about on the interviews. Everyone seems to assume you would get those power ups by defeating bosses, but I think these make a bit more sense. Like there's one upgrade checkpoint at each major dungeon, behind a boss fight, similar to how great runes and divine towers work.
I think the beginning of the trailer is an offering that Marika is making to the greater will and the entrance she's holding it up in is the primordial crucible. The entrance she's at looks like the entrance we go into with the erdtree and she may have basically supplanted the crucible into what we now know as the erdtree. Basically I think the crucible was used as an incubator/shell for the erdtree grew from.
hearing your theory, i think marika tricked gloam eyed queen via radagon, then repeat the same with renalla. Messmer would be the child of that relationship. another wild guess is land of shadow were actually the "real world" and the deathless world is the world created via elden ring, messmer's war and tyranny was actually moving (plus resetting) all the souls into lands between, basically bringing everyone to live eternally in the "afterlife".
What if there’s a land of light (life) the same way there’s a land of shadow (death), and the lands between are literally between the two. And normally souls go from life to death, but Marika found a way to stop the dead from progressing all the way to death. Perhaps she made the lands between a limbo you never get to leave. This doesn’t totally make sense, but symbolically Limbo is literally a “land between” life and death.
@@NickYarmey-uj3gd just read another comment suggesting the lands between exist as an interstice between the shadow realm and the land "bathed in rays of gold" that godrick refers to when he dies. It's definitely a possibility
I'm wondering why Vaati and people in the comments refer to this character as St Trina like we know it's him ? Is there visual representations of st Trina in the game ? Beside knowing that St Trina is likely Miquella, why would this character would be St Trina specifically? Besides from looking like a nascent butterfly, which is associated to both Miquella and St Trina.
@@MeraHarch the torch shown at 21:30. Ordinarily I'd also be skeptical of a theory with so little evidence but in this case i think it's almost certain
I see a lot of people assuming that the tree we see in the trailer is some sort of corrupted version of the erdtree, but I noticed while watching the story trailer that you can see the erdtree in the distant background, behind the shadowy tree.
Since Marika had her Radagon, maybe Miquella has his Trina. A separate half that exists to eventually make him whole, but unlike Marika he chooses to deny Trina and forge a different path?
I've always found it strange how most people think that Miquella is inspired by Griffith from Berserk, while we literally have Marika in front of our eyes: using strong and loyal warriors, and mass sacrifices, to establish her order, based on a great tree. Miquella would rather use his own blood than people's lives to make his tree grow. I think Miquella is truly as kind as the characters in game say, and Marika is the one inspired by Griffith and his deceptions.
I had the same thought. Miquella seems to have bits and pieces of Griffith and Rickert especially but also Guts and Moonlight Boy sprinkled in, plus whatever unique aspects Miyazaki throws in, but Marika seems to be the chief Hawk of Light figure here, with Leyndell as her Falconia and the Erdtree as her World-Tree. Marika was the one who climbed a highway-mountain of corpses and sacrifices, covered in blood, to reach her own personal paradise where everyone worships her. Miquella wants to start an eclipse, he looks feminine despite being male, he has similar hair, everyone seems to love and adore him for no clear reason, but he also shares many story aspects with Rickert; Miquella, in his egg, was the one left behind, the one who did not share in the fate of the other demigods, and he lived in that "paradise" for a while before discovering the truth underneath it, the insane and dark things kept secret, and now he uses tools of his own making, at the cost of his own body, a body he no longer cares for, to presumably go against the kingdom? The comparisons aren't going to be 1:1 because Elden Ring is, after all, a completely different story than Berserk, but the similarities make it so fun to guess at their motives before experiencing the DLC ourselves.
I'd honestly be more interested to see a truly *good* character in a soulsborne game. It'd be such a change of pace compared to the usual selfish motivations that I think it's even more compelling.
Love when creators actually show other creators channel when mentioning them. Increases chances of people actually checking them out and provides spelling of their names. Nice one Vaati
Something I’ve noticed about the gate scene, is that the shape of it is near identical to the erdtree - particularly the odd section of the Erdtree that’s inexplicably a different colour. It’s always seemed weird to me that most of the Erdtree is gold and glowing, but there’s a random brown bit, that for whatever reason doesn’t burn like the rest of it does.
I've always thought that the current Erdtree wasn't really any kind of a tree at all, but an illusion or installation (religion and corrupt authority does this all the time) overtop of something like a gateway or portal, or a hub to other worlds that makes the Lands Between literally the lands between other lands. If I were telling the story, the power that was granted to Marika would have come with the cost of sealing the other lands off by putting a giant, power-sucking parasite tree overtop of that portal, and installing the Greater Will as the governing power while they feed on the golden sap of the tree. "You get power, we get control. Don't worry, we're nice, just do what you are told." Anyway, I'm off topic.
Something I have never see someone realized is that if Miquella left everything behind, even his fate then he left behind Malenia too, maybe that's why he left his blinding strength, that strength is his sword, that strength is Malenia, Blade of Miquella
Yeah "blinding strength" was a weird thing to describe Miquella. He is many things but no one mentions his power or strength. And Malenia is partially blind due to the scarlet rot. But this leaves a scarier question. Malenia is incredibly loyal to Miquella. Why wouldn't he let Malenia in on his plans? Why would he leave her languishing, waiting for his return? Why would he... abandon her? EDIT: People, I didnt mean that Miquella isnt powerful. When Miquella is mentioned they mention his intelligence, faith, benevolence, the loyalty he inspires in people, efforts to save his sister, etc. His power as an empyrean is the last thing anyone remembers of him. There are no mentions of him ever using his vast power, probably because he has better tools at his disposal. So it is strange that the trailer explicitly mentions that, lest it be symbolic in someway.
@@invaderzam imo cause he's largely seeking options on how to save her. That's a lot of his whole inspiration as an individual, is to master the fundamental laws of existence, in order to find a cure for her affliction. And judging by how the rest of this is set up so far, he found out about the shadow world. I would imagine either while he was in his cocoon trying to grow the haligtree, and like vatii said, perhaps he found out what the true cost of a tree such as the erdtree would be, given he has a deep understanding of the order of things this would make sense. Or alternatively perhaps he found out about the shadow world from mogh, mogh after all, does have many connections to the shadow world indirectly. He's one of Marika's children, he's an omen, perhaps the formless mother has some connection to the crucible/shadow world. I hope we get a lot of info on miquellas journey up to this point, cause he's so mysterious so far. Very excited to see what fromsoft has been cooking
@invaderzam Remember he made her the promise to come back, maybe when he found out the cure for her Scarlet Rot, ascending to God hood would have been his answer but if Malenia is already in game and we can kill her it means he already abandoned her, it reminds me a bit of like Artorias and Sif (Maybe we can get a extra cutscene or alt intro of Malenia is we kill/help Miquella before fighting her, just like Artorias and Sif, or Maliketh when you do his death root questline) In any case, of the lands between are disconnected from the land of shadow and the Knights you see In the trailer followed Miquella footsteps, why not Malenia? Who would be more qualified to help Miquella in his way in the land of shadow than the undefeated Malenia? It seems like he purposely left her behind, maybe he send her to beat Radan so the stars can move again and create a new fate for him and Malenia
@@THE_MOONMAN Maybe he also didn't want to introduce Scarlet Rot to the Land of Shadow? I mean his whole thing is to purge the Outer Gods from Lands Between/that World, and it seems like in the Land of Shadow most have already been hunted down to the last stragglers by Messmer, so the only ones really left are Messmer/Golden Order(?) Allowing the Avatar of the Goddess of Rot to enter now would probably be a very bad idea, knowing how rapidly Rot can and will spread...
Note, when you hear a crash, wind blow, and Elden beasts ost play, I’ve heard someone say that it must literally be when the Elden beast came down to appear to Marika
This would be excellent storytelling of the corrupt religion that is the Elden Ring/Elden Beast/Greater Will. Get the inhabitants of this world to fracture their reality and social structure through ages of conflict and deceit, Marika uses a Rune Arc (or a few?) to gain power, this allows the Elden Beast to come crashing down. She thinks she's getting godlike power (well, she does), but all she did was seal her fate as a puppet of the Greater Will.
I wonder if the Messmer guy has something to do with the Snake in the Volcano mannor. The whole "Sin" being linked to snakes is a recurring theme there and the flame he commands does look a lot like the reddish volcanic flame that Mr Snake uses.
"An affair from which gold arose... and so too was shadow born." I believe it refers to the erdtree itself arising as it grew, as well as it's shadow counterpart.
@@emdeejay7432 It could very well refer to both. Poetically and more literally. As the order that arose mirrors the tree itself. The tree leaves falling also being a sign that the age was fading.
Smoughtown made the observation that Messmer may be the Hades of this pantheon, given an underworld to rule and ensure none of its denizens escape (in this case, because Marika wouldn't want the story of the land of shadow told). That got me thinking. What if that makes Miquella and St. Trina analogues of Orpheus and Eurydice? This DLC may be a rescue mission of sorts. Maybe St. Trina's disappearance was being pulled into the land of shadow, and while Miquella wants to become a god and share his eternal bounty with all, he's afraid that if he ascends before incorporating his "other half" into himself, he'll end up repeating the mistakes of Marika and Radagon.
I think this is a good theory, especially considering what we know about how this affects the ending of the game. FromSoft has said that this isn't going to change the outcomes already available to the player before the DLC, so I think the connection between Miquella/St. Trina and Orpheus/Eurydice is a good one. Ultimately, it might be that Miquella fails to reunite with his alter ego.
Is this the secret Marika wanted to hide? That it wasn't the crucible that birthed life, but life that birthed the crucible? Now I'm starting to consider that the Omen curse might be, in actuallity, the product of the collective lingering hatred of all those sacrificed to grow the Erdtree.
This is also quite literally the plot of berserk (Idea of Evil, don't google if you don't want deep berserk spoilers), which would check out as Miyazaki is a huge Miura fan.
I wouldn't say that. They are literally killing Omen in the trailers. So the Omen were there before, if this is the creation of the Erdtree (which I think it is)
So I was doing some recap of the elden ring lore with some of my friends and we notice something interesting. (Not DLC related) All of what can be considered the “Cursed children of Marika” seem to follow the naming scheme of their mother Marika, while the otherwise “healthy” children seemed to follow the naming conventions of her consort at the time. And I was beginning to speculate on whether or not that may have any wider lore implications. I find it more interesting in that the first two (Morgott and Mohg) seem to mirror the first issue with Marika’s ideal for the eternal golden order. That being the idea of a “before” with the twins bearing aspects of the crucible. Where the last set of twins (Malenia and Miquella) appear to foreshadow the end of her “eternal” age with Malenia symbolizing the Rot that was beginning to settle into Marika’s golden order, as it had to be changed from her original vision with every new ideology incorporated within; where miquella foreshadows the beginning of a new age which has been halted in progression by Marika’s eternal golden order.
All of the cursed children of Radagon/Marika have come in pairs. Before the DLC there was speculation that Melina was a secret triplet with Miquella and Malenia, but what if she and Messmer are twins? The flame, and the kindling it burns.
When u said Marika wanted no songs sung about this place or the war it made me think of the old singing bat enemies, and I think I remember their translated lyrics saying something like "golden one whom were you so mad at?" And that made me think what if they're referring to mesmers war
Just noticed that while all the warriors at the end of the trailer are facing one way, there's one furthest at the back who is not and has his back to camera. Interesting...
What if Messmer is a child of the Gloam-Eyed Queen and Radagon - thus a child of Marika by proxy, who came to his mother’s (but not birth mother) side? I feel also like his flame, and the gateway of bodies, are connected to the “blasphemous” flame that Rykard sought to tap.
I think that the glass shard description is a reference to the Erdtree: looks shiny and impressive from a distance but is ultimately more trouble than it is worth.
What I found interesting was the difference between narrators in the trailers. In the first, they considered Miquella’s charm as ‘terrifying’ and seemingly manipulative, while in the story trailer, he is considered ‘kindly’ and having sacrificed all for his journey. I think it’s entirely possible that the second narrator has a skewed view of events, as they have supposedly become a vehement follower of Miquella and were thus seduced by his charm.
Yeah my initial thoughts when watching the trailer was "I'm pretty sure Messmer has a different take on this..." It reads like a propaganda video: they are oh so bad and do such terrible things, they kill all these beings without you knowing, they do bad things to good people...but not US, we are oh so great and good and righteous, our quest is a noble one. Its really heavy handed, look at all the red aggressive colours and killing and "Messmer oh no Messmer bad bad bad"...and now look at us with our peaceful lake with a nice rune in it and all these peaceful colours, isnt this lovely?
About the Crucible Theory @ around 11 min mark, they started piling corpses in Castle Morne too, maybe because thats how they did things before? The way the Crucible Tree was created
The whole thing also just flows really well with this game's constant stream of "subverted hyperbole" (Absurd- or metaphorical-sounding descriptions and titles being completely literal). What, you thought the crucible was some immaterial well of life energy? Nah, we literally need to run every living thing through a blender, so get to work.
Marika planting the Erdtree: "Hey guys, welcome back! On today's episode of 'Will It Blend?' we will be turning an entire city-state into a giant tree!"
Personal theory: The imagery of Marika pulling out those golden threads has very clear references to lower regions of the human body. You'll note that Radagon's fractured body had the three rings of the elden ring in his chest. As you pointed out the upper arc is what Marika is crucified on. So where is the lower arc. Literally. Where on or about the body is the lower arc, given we know the rings are in the chest, and the upper arc is over the head. Following from that, where is Marika pulling these threads from, which represent AN arc, perhaps not the upper arc...
I get that it's not a huge observation, and a bit crass at that. But we literally never see the lower arc on Radagon or Marika, just the rings and upper arc. And now we have a trailer showing AN arc being removed from a lower part of a body. Seems like a clear direct reference to this being the lower arc, though I have no idea what that means for the lore.
It’s not crass. Bloodborne has tons of themes involving menstrual cycles and the like. One could even interpret the bloody gate at the beginning of this trailer as being vaginal.
It clearly looks like a vagina - either literally or symbolically - I don't know why people are weird about it. Symbolically it's the moment Marika 'gave birth' and began her Order.
yes! i love this Messmer theory. i've been thinking about it since the trailer dropped. it seems perfectly up Marika's alley to conceive a batshit crazy firstborn to help fight your wars.
In the group shot, I think we've seen the Big Hat Guy before as well since he looks very similar to the guy doing the spinning kicks in the gameplay trailer
Given the hidden eye of Mesmer, I think it more likely that he and Melina are siblings, both children of the gloom-eyed queen, and their father is Marika/Radagon.
Could potentially hint that Marika and Radagon were less divided at that point, because Marika is the traitor and assumedly that means she was the one in the relationship with the Gloam Eyed Queen.
Yeah, I thought about Messmer being son of the gloam-eyed queen cause of the closed eye and the fact that his flames are both black and red, like a mix of giant's fire and godflame. He says "Mother" in the dialogue but I think he is referring to the gloam-eyed queen assassinated/betrayed by Marika. Maybe Messmer is just taking revenge for her death mother purging everything related to Marika and Miquella in that world.
I’m not sure if it’s important, but the wall of bodies that queen Marika stands between is oddly similar to the designs found on Praetor Rykard. Not just the sword but the arms and bodies coming out of the snake portion of Rykard as well.
My feeling is that maybe Mesmer is the first born, but that either he rebelled or whatever Marika wanted him to do got way out of hand. Marika might have run away because of what she set loose in Mesmer. Perhaps that’s why fire is blasphemous in The Golden Order, and why Volcano Manor use it. It’s blasphemous because Marika doesn’t want anything to do with Mesmer. Also, I feel there’s some connection between the corpse gate, Rykard, the immortal serpent, and Mesmer’s snake motif. Perhaps Rykard is worshipping Mesmer in his blasphemy? Maybe the immortal serpent comes from Mesmer? All just guesses but I feel there’s something there.
Rykard also kinda looks like the corpse gate. If that gate is the primordial crucible, could he be trying to make a "new" one? And if so, would that be the reason why he ia blasphemous? He is trying to usurp Marika after all, so it woukd make sense for him to have his own erdtree project
Pretty sure that the one behind big hat has also been seen too, riding through the weird swamp on Torrent? Maybe a Torrent given for each follower of Miquella
The potential connection to the omen is fascinating. The omen in the lands between are known to sleep and dream of something nightmarish with a tormentor (the omen killers wear masks meant to inspire the same fear). Given Miquella’s connection to sleep and the land of shadow, I wonder if they are dreaming of some ancient history as exposed by Miquella. Could the tormenter be Mesmer? Could it be Miquella? The lore and narrative style of these games is so much fun, the possibilities are endless.
1-Melina was born at the the base of the erdtree! 2-She was burned and bodiless! (burned by whom, Messmer's flame!?) 3-She has a gloamy eye with a very clear indigo tint (gloam-eyed, also gloam means twilight sky which we see in this trailer) 4-She was given purpose by her "mother"! ("mother" here could be the gloam-eyed queen not Marika) 5-She wanted to restore destined death! My guess that all this time in the original game Melina was kinda in service of her mother the gloam-eyed queen goals (restore destined death and kill the gods), potentially she could be the daughter of Radagon and the Gloam-eyed Queen and she was helping us destroy Marika's regime also as revenge for what Marika did to her mother (the whole shape-shifting, affair and betrayal business she is known for, Ranni probably feels the same after what Marika did to her mother Rennala). Also the thing that Marika puts her bloodied hand into to pull the golden strings is most likely a Godskin Swaddling Cloth --> Sacred cloth of the Godskin Apostles, made from supple skin sewn together, the Gloam-Eyed Queen cradles newborn apostles swaddled in this cloth. Soon they will grow to become the death of the gods. You should thank Eugene the Author for figuring it was the Swaddling Cloth.
@@lili-jin130 Because she is also the daughter of Marika (as Radagon) same way Renni is the daughter of Rennla and Marika/Radagon .. so she can understand her message as well.
Gloam Eyed Queen is likely Marika before she become a god. We do not know what purpose was given to Melina, but she wanted us to access the Erdtree, which would eventually lead us to essentially kill Marika. A task given purposely by Marika herself to the Tarnished. Hewg was enslaved by Marika to serve the Roundtable hold to forge a weapon capable of slaying a God, which is actually Marika herself :) Marika wanted the golden order to end, Radagon did not.
I think it's quite likely that this will touch on the Gloam-Eyed Queen in some manner. This place is specifically noted as being where Marika began and that scene at the beginning is one of few times we've ever even seen her or Radagon, her own roots will play a major role alongside Miquella's own parts; their beginnings and Miquella's new ending. Something interesting I noticed is in Messmer's flames. Their colour matching that of Destined Death could infer that he was indeed acting on his mother's orders, being that she is the one that commands it in the end, but it could also show him fighting in the name of the Godskins instead. They wielded the power of death in its full strength before Marika took the Rune for herself. This flows well with how we know snakes are seen as traitors to Marika's order, if this son of hers did indeed betray her to aid her sworn enemy and rival. Additionally, and this is a bit of a stretch, but to me his 'Impaler' moniker seems like it could fit well with the Godskins, akin to setting up their corpses as a step before they are skinned.
I think the mentioning of seduction and the possible dead gloam eyed queen as well as mesmir being a child of merika might hint that merika/radagon gave birth to mesmir with the gloam eyed queen. It would explain mesmir being able to wield flame something that the glooam eyes queen has mastery of this would imply 1 why flame is considered a sin because it is the power of the original faith that powered the world before the beginning 2 how one of merikas children would be able to use said sinful flame and 3 why he was abandoned and deemed as if he is a traitor. If this is true then this would be the betrayal of a spouse merika taking the throne of the gloam eyes queen after she seduced her until she was able to take the throne for their own
Also something has to tie to Melina here. Her having a Gloam colored right eye, could be important in the dlc. My theory is that Melina is a child of the Gloam eyed queen and she wants vengeance for Marikas betrayal or something.
16:10 I think I gotta go with what Lokey has said on this and that the Lion Dancers are 2 people and I think the impaled guys prove that. What we have are 3 lion dancers impaled with the front dancers on one stake with their head and the rear dancers on the others with the cape stretching from head to tail.
No matter what the DLC will truly be about, this right now is the Golden Age of Lore Hunting. The daily bombardment with high quality vids and theories is just incredible. Man, it's great to be in this community.
Could it be that the corpse she was reaching into was a fellow numen, and the reason why they are so rare now is because she killed all of them, used their runes, and their bodies to make the erd tree?
@MrFallenone That's a good point that I didn't think of, maybe for the black knives, she kept them alive in order to use them, and for us, maybe we were outside of the land of shadow when it happened, or we escaped, who knows, but it's fun to speculate :)
One thing I noticed about the mountain of viscera is the clear resemblance to skinless people, which I think lends more credit to the Godskin Apostles theory
Marika standing in a dark realm surrounded by bloodied bodies whilst claiming godhood has such "God Hand and the Eclipse"-vibes from Berserk. There is also just no way that Melina and Messmer both only having one functioning eye is coincidence.
One thing I noticed which might not have been intentional but the silhouette of Saint Trina falling in the trailer looks a lot like the item icon for the Nascent Butterflies. Could further the connection there
@@MrFallenone Soft confirmed. Aeonian = Malenia and Nascent = Miquella is pretty much guaranteed, but the question is who the Smoldering one relates to. Base game it was assumed to be Melina, but now it might be Messmer, and if Messmer is technically a child of Radagon but not Marika (think like Ragadon and Rennal's kids) that makes things complicated.
Miquella is abandoning his destiny in a similar way to Ranni: casting away her empyrean flesh and denying the will of the two fingers. St. Trina is that empyrean form, but unlike Ranni Miquella has two forms, two bodies, and so he doesn't need to do any black knife stuff. If you examine the endings of Elden Ring there's a lot of similar threads to Miquella's journey: the crucible, rejection of grace, trying to create a new, more perfect order, the omen curse, and the rune of death.
Maybe a wild idea everytime he is reborn he can be born as a boy or girl the girl becomes St trina while the boy grows to be miquella himself maybe st trina is another god of some form
All other empyreans are women. Only Miquella is the only exception. Like you said it could be that St. Trina is the part of him that makes him an empyrean. A rejection of his fate as an empyrean would be a rejection of her entirely.
@Poorcheeseboy at the time, yes, I haven't seen anything saying that they must have been women ranni was next in line to become the new queen. Hence, she stole the rune of death and masterminded the night of black knives
Hey Vaati! Long time fan here, I may have caught something that helps us reveal who the character Queen Marika loots at the beginning of the trailer is. Everyone is noting how its likely Godskin that covers the "corpse", and how you can see the stitching visible on the folds of the cloth (as you mention at 2:57). However, take a look at the painting of the old man (who becomes impaled through the skull with the branch/candlestick looking thing in the first trailer) and the woman next to him (you have this photo on screen at 6:40) from the first DLC trailer. If you look closely, the edges of the outermost shawl she is wearing has the same horizontal stitch lines that go over the side of the front of the cloth. She also appears to be wearing some kind of blonde hair/tassle thing in combination with her own darker hair, which could be part of what Queen Marika steals (if she "creates" Gold and Shadow by stealing the blonde "hair", then the dead woman only has black hair left, meaning Shadow). I don't know what this means (my headcanon is that the woman is the Gloam Eyed Queen), but I'm confident that the woman in the painting is a very important character in the lore, and I believe that its the same woman that Queen Marika loots in the beginning of the story trailer.
Oooo good eye. So maybe that chick was gestating some sort of rune and marika stole it? Some slight similarities to how Fia makes her mending rune after laying with Godwyn.
You're completly right my guy. It certainly is the body of the GEQ (I never noticed that she has black and yellow hair in the paiting) and given that she appears pregnant in the painting, she probably is Messmer's mother. That would explain why he embodies so many blasphemies from Marika's perspective, and why he is considered in equal foot to the other children of Marika. Then, unless the oldman is a completly new character we could theorize that he is the Dynast/John Elden Ring
@VaatiVidya I believe you correct and assuming that it's Radagon holding up the remnants of the olden ring in the opening shot because every time Momma M has some serious ass kicking to do it's Radagon. We even see this in the final fight.
21:11 Edit: Nvm, I'm dumb, they're quite different lol The person standing between Sleepy Mask, and Tanky Boy is for sure the person we see stepping into Mohg's arena. The bottom of their skirt has the same pattern. We've also seen Smallhat Logan using the new martial arts weapon.
I would love for the Lands Between to be a limbo between the "Lands of Shadow" and the "Land bathed in rays of gold" that Godrick talks about in his death
It would seem "Land bathed in rays of gold" refers to the glorified stories of the past of the Golden Order. Like the glorified image of Godfrey, who was in reality a barbarian tool of the golden order who himself was taken advantage of, and accomplishments attributed to him were embellished. Followers of the Golden Order yearn to return to a past that never existed, fabricated by the Golden Order. They resist change and deny forces beyond the Greater Will, such as Rot and Death. For example, Radahn is obsessed with this fabricated past, and wants to be like Godfrey. Radahn doesn't understand how impossible this goal is, his faith in the holism of the Greater Will leaves him unprepared for the Rot and he succumbs. But yeah, can't wait to figure out anything about The Lands of Shadow, that will probably make the true nature of The Lands Between much more clear.
Im not sure if it's the lighting but a 0:02 it looks like the back of mesmer's hair is blonde whilst the front is red, possibly confirming this is Marika and Radagon's child
The Crucible as a primordial version of the Erdtree makes sense given that this shadow Erdtree is being sapped into a structure than can be called a crucible.
Great video! As always! The way Messmer is described here reminds me of Hela from the MCU's take on Thor. In terms of a previous child that was used for war and discarded to pave the way for an empire of gold.
My personal hot take at time 10:00, is that this is the creation of the current Erd Tree. That golden hue coming from the husk of these corpses is reminiscent of the golden "door" we go through to face Radagon/Elden Beast. And as we know, bodies are buried near the roots of the Erd Tree so that they may "become one with it" again (or something along those lines). I think the great Erd Tree we know and love was actually built with the corpses of Marika's enemies (maybe). Although, the way the appendages, et al, look, most closely resemble the way the Big Snek Man^tm sword look. And past that, maybe minus all the blood, the way Grafting looks (like with Godrick). HOLY FUCK MAYBE MARIKA GRAFTED THE ERD TREE ITSELF. Maybe that's actually why Godrick is so obsessed with grafting. And we could say that Rykard grafted all those limbs onto his sword...hmmm will revise upon further information intake (or not, we'll see). Edit @ 10:25 well shit lmao Thought @ 14:02 (not related tho): Miyazaki stated that no one had found/realized/etc a certain thing from the base game. I'm starting to think it's the symbolization of how an older world/group of people were pushed underground, not to see the light of day again. Could the ancient cities underground be a proof of concept that the whole entire old world/crucible world was literally buried beneath this new world/order? A Golden World literally built on top of what once was?
What if the person amidst the fire (17:36) is actually Melina? Miquella abandoned his flesh to be able to traverse to this realm of shadow. Ranni is able to travel as an illusion and she gave away her flesh as well. Both Ranni and Melina share the same particle effect when they appear in certain parts of the story. What if they're walking between realms? Interesting thought.
Interesting but tbh I don't feel like the body plan matches. She looks similar to rot goddess but not actual malenia. Ntm the cloth behind her isn't a signature of malenia, if anything it reminds me of the black knives who are numen. I expect this woman to be a numen and that the shadow realm is the original home of the numens
If you slow the video play speed down during this part you can see the embers are the same color as destined death deep blackish red. All other fire scenes are orange however fromsoftware is showing us this woman on her knees holding a spear is in fact a user of destined death. Perhaps GEQ or Melina?
I think the event at the beginning of the trailer - Marika reaching into the thing and standing at the thing and ascending to godhood - happens at the END of the war we see in the trailer. It is her having prevailed in her war against the god of the previous ag and standing inside the crucible next to the slain god. The same way we fight Radagon/Eldenbeast inside the erdtree.
@@limetitan It could be the clips are just purposefully being shown in a particular order, but not chronologically. Like there was a seduction and betrayal, then a war, and then, after the war, the clip we see of her pulling the runes out of the god.
Nah, it's says "in the beginning" and "and thus too was shadow born" so we can tell this was before the shadow lands were even a thing. And that of course is where that war took place.
@@blastfiendsunite420 I kind of figured that the land of shadow wasn’t “shadow” then. It was maybe just a land. After the war, maybe it was banished to “shadow”.
It may have just been me, but when it shows the scene with the corpses on spears and fire behind, I hear a LOT of notes and vocals from what sounds like Abyss Watchers
10:25 I also first thought of that structure as something resembling the Erdtree but being something different with a similar purpose behind it. The "fleshy gate" also resembles the split in the Erdtree allowing for a look "inside".
Another thought that i had was that the gorey "gate" sorta looks like the cocoon of miquella.The theme and the colors of the cocoon with the crack look very similar to this gate in my opinion considering we will enter the DLC through the cocoon
That mass of flesh in the beginning reminds me of the description of The Crucible; where all life was one... Perhaps in a great mass of flesh and wounds.
I'd like to share my speculation which also might or might not come from visual misidentification. So, when I was watching the trailer, it seemed to me that the strings Marika was holding were growing and extending at the wind, forming a veil-like thing. On that basis, along with narration and the gate, I believed that the scene depicts Marika separating the Lands Between from the Land of Shadows and veiling the latter, which is what we know from Miyazaki's interview she did.
I think the gateway looking thing of corpses is the arch leading into the Erdtree. The Erdtree eats corpses or has them all entangled through the roots as seen in a number of crypts, the whole thing is built off and out of those that died.
I'd also like to point out that in the first shadow of the erdtree dlc trailer, there's a section where the player is running,on torrents back, through a swamp with dead trees towards a ruined building, well the water in that swamp has the same texture as the sky does in the dungeaters curse ending and also the crap that morgott throws up halfway threw the fight
@@AlriikRidesAgain He may be onto something though. What if Mesmer's origin did partially come from the Fell God in some way? Perhaps Marika slept with the Fell God or a servant of the Fell God in one of her many betrayals? If that's the case, then Mesmer would be a living reminder of a history Marika wants forgotten. It would make sense for her to send Mersmer to stay in the very city she wants sealed away and blotted out from history. This is all tunnel-vision logic though. I could easily be missing something from the bigger picture.
The first thing I thought of when seeing that "gate" was that looks like the entrance to the Erdtree. Makes perfect sense to me that it was formed out of an innumerable mountain of corpses.
![เปิด อาณาจักร หมื่นล้าน "สาระตั้ม" l [Nickynachat]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/3XE0nPF4YkQ/mqdefault.jpg)
I didn't really want to gush about this during the analysis but goddamn the art design for that gate scene is insanely striking. So surreal
we have that same feeling and cannot wait for it!!!!
Berserk but with better animation 🗿
Miyazaki's team always delivers on artistry
For games
Are art transcend
It looks just sooooo amazing!
A scandalous affair.
Vaati: Finally, my 5.5 hr AC lore vid is out, maybe I can take a breather…
From Soft on a Tuesday:
From soft so I heard you wanted to take a break,who the fuck said you can
To anyone reading this who hasn’t watched the AC6 video yet, PLEASE DO. It is by far one of the best videos Vaati and his team have ever produced. It isn’t nearly doing the numbers it deserves.
Miyazaki: Get the fuck up samurai, you’ve got some lore to analyze
I don't care about armored core and I'm not enough of a fanboy to care about it because fromsoft made it. No I will not play it. @@titanfromday1
@@lukasr1166Bloodborne pfp makes your comment irrelevant
Hiding something? Well we didn't see a poison swamp anywhere in there so that's certainly well hidden if nothing else.
Watch the first trailer there’s a swamp of some sort sadly 😔
Miyazaki with his neverending kindness has decided to put Deathblight swamp in the DLC😭 wallahi we’re cooked
Guys, It's obvious...we're going to get a "sleep" swamp.. hence the KO'd masked character.
We'll pass out, get ganked & die
Miyazaki design 101
Deathblight rune bears that can fly.
sleep swamp?
The way marika stands in between the two columns of Bodies looks exactly like how id expect someone staring out from inside the erd tree would look
Damn son, you called it. Spot on.
I personally think its adult miquella and that when she died that she got rid of het curse
@@jeremyverbrugge5518Miquella's a he brother.
@@sebastianb.3978not always
@@jeremyverbrugge5518isn’t Miquella in a permanent state of infancy?
IT'S HERE
LET'S GO LOBOS IN THE HOOOOOOOUSE
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
THATS WHAT IM SAYING
Finally!!!!
Lobos! Idk, Idc if you dont read replies, just wanna say you were may introduction to watching livestreams. I started with your Daughters of Ash mod for DS1! Love ya bro
The red gate of bodies is shaped almost exactly the same as the gate through which you enter the Erdtree.
In game, you don't directly physically enter the Erdtree, but teleport via a golden seal. Leyndell and Altus have the iconic golden sky and clouds as well.
This to me looks like the first scene takes place inside the Erdtree, physically, before the gate was sealed. And Marika is lifting the rune arc as to show it to the world outside.
Also, the Erdtree absorbs bodies in current timelime, so it would not be surprising if it originally sprouted, or was built from a mass of bodies. And Miquella watered the Haligtree, another sapling of Erdtree, with his own blood. It all connects quite well I think
If that's a key part of growing an Erdtree - is it possible that Mogh was somehow (likely unknowingly) feeding blood to the Haligtree?
It's said that Miquella watered it with his blood since it was a sapling but to grow to the size it is surely more than just Miquella's would have been required.
@@NihilistCrab Or maybe Blood of an Empyrean is just a bit more potent than one would imagine, iirc the Haligtree existed in its current form already when Mohg came to kidnap Miquella, so I don't think Mohg played a part in that
I think it's shaped like one side of the hilt of the sacred relic sword, the other side looks like the shadow tree and the description mentions, sin, beginning, and stuff like that
@@NihilistCrabI think the haligtree's massive growth is somthing to do with miquellas eternal youth thing he's got going on
So Erdtree Burial for fallen Heroes
But actually a mass grave for the loser of the War
Fertilizer for the golden age
Me watching the trailer - This makes little sense
Vaati opening dialogue - Everything makes so much sense
Lmao
Me frfr
I love how the Vaati breakdown is part of every trailer that FromSoft brings out. 🙃😁
Haha yeah
Um actually, he's saying it probably *will* make so much sense after you play it, as in, it doesn't actually make much sense to him (relatively) yet, either.
The line “…an affair through which gold arose and so too was shadow born” indicates that before gold and shadow existed as contrasting concepts they were one. I believe that Marika acting on behalf of the greater will, sealed off shadow from gold and what we see in the trailer is her in the process of closing a gateway between the two realms.
The tree we see in the land of shadow is split down the middle and golden sap seems to be oozing from in. I believe that one faction wants to open this gateway, while another is trying to keep it shut and that the tree that coils around the split tree and that most people thought was trying to consume the other tree is in fact trying to pry it open or perhaps more likely keep it shut.
We know the game world as the lands between, perhaps because it exits between shadow and gold. There is some cut dialogue from the Godrick’s dying monologue:
“There is only one tree, and only its branches.
That bathe in true rays of gold.
Not the fool Omen King.
Nor the rank malformed twins.”
The trees he’ referring to must be the Erdtree and Miquella’s haligtree, suggesting then that at some point in the production of the game there may have been a third, TRUE tree and perhaps the line of returning together to our home bathed in rays of gold isn’t referring to Leyndell, but to a realm of gold where this third tree is located.
Messmer being a child of Marika or Radagon seems all but certain and I believe him to be the firstborn child of Marika and Radagon. First, because all the other unions resulted in three children, and just like Malenia and Miquella, his name starts with an M, but also because there are three different types of butterflies; the aeonian that relates to Malenia and the nascent that relates Miquella, the smoldering then relating to Messmer and his flame seems like too good of a fit not to be the case.
If this is the case then it would stand to reason that he is also cursed in some way and one thing I took note of back when he was revealed is how different aspects of him is very similar to other characters. His spear is very similar to Mohgwyn’s sacred spear, he has what looks like several small dragon wings and a large snake that is either coiling around him or is part of him.
Could it be that his curse is that he is influenced by several outer gods at once, that perhaps several has within him, joined forces to oppose the greater will or that he is able to wield their power, while not be under their influences?
Part of the description of Mohgwyn’s sacred spear reads; “…it is an instrument of communion with an outer god who bestows power upon accursed blood” referring to The formless mother, the dragon wings could be a sign of the god to whom Placidusax served as Elden lord, the snake is the serpent god and his fire could potentially come from the fell god.
I’ve had a theory for quite some time that Marika herself became an unwilling participant in the golden order. That the seduction mentioned in the trailer refer to how the greater will seduced Marika in order to serve its purpose and that the manifestation of Radagon, was a means for the greater will to take full control. This would then be why Marika once she understood that she had been used, tried to shatter the Elden ring only for Radagon to try to repair it.
Another strong symbolism of this is how the statues of Marika and Radagon differ from each other. Marika has her arms stretched out in the same pose that she is shackled inside of the Erdtree as if she is forcibly taking that pose, while Radagon takes it willingly. If the pose is a symbol for the golden order and the greater will and their relationship to it, then it would be a strong symbol of them relating to it in very different ways.
The goal of the greater will is after all perfect order, but how can that be if it isn’t in full control. I believe that the purpose for the greater will with the different unions of Marika and Radagon, first with Godfrey, then Rennala and finally between the two different aspects of the same entity, was to produce a new even stronger Empyrean through which it could act.
Once Marika understood that the greater will had been using her and was trying to replace her, she may have been involved in or even orchestrated the plot to assassinate Godwyn, since if his soul died and the body of Ranni died, neither would be a suitable vassal for the greater will to bend to its will.
Mohg and Morgott would not have been options either on account of them being omen. Rykard was also part of the plot and may have been unsuitable because of how he had already started to stray from the golden order in favor of the serpent god. Why Radahn was unsuitable is harder to answer, but he idolized Godfrey and showed no true loyalty towards the golden order. Malenia was unsuitable because of her affliction of scarlet rot, leaving only Miquella, who once he realized that the golden order couldn’t heal his sister and how his love and empathy was in conflict with the golden order’s treatment of omen and the misbegotten also abandoned the golden order and perhaps made himself an unsuitable host through his departure to the realm of shadows.
This obviously just a lot of wild theories and there are plenty of gaps and unanswered questions that remain, but it’s fun to speculate. Thanks if you made it this far.
this deserves more likes
I ain’t reading all that
the same concept in dark souls... interesting.
@@kartikr5922 tl;dr the greater will is a bitch
Just make a TH-cam video or something cuz nobody gonna read all that
the imagery of St Trina as the music swells is so damn majestic.
Ohhhh, majestic, a hunter is a hunter… even in a dream.
Definitely
I need st Trina to glorp and slorp on my shit insane-o style til I pass out from a seizure
I've been waiting for this.
It's funny how so many were too, seeing the comments for the trailers. You've become a central part of the Soulsborne franchise
For real, when i saw the trailer drop i thought damn even vaati isnt safe from fromsofts schedule or random tuesdays
Become? There was a point where he was pretty much the only one that seemed to get recommended when you asked about an explanation of Soulsborne lore (eventhough there were many other capable people).
I feel like Elden Ring really started to show us many new faces and made old ones more popular.
@@Romapolitan Absolutely! Shout out to Smoughtown. They did a trailer analysis as well that is definitely worth checking out for those who havent already
@@Romapolitan True, he was a pillar already. But recently he has improved his work significantly, especially with the Armoured Core vid. That and the fact Bandai Namco made him the presenter for one of the Elden Ring trailers
@@MonkeyDLuffy-fl3eb Oh yeah, I saw someone react to his Dark Souls 3 videos and with his Hawkwood video you see the turning point where his videos would take the more cinematic approach he is known for today.
I wonder if Miquella wasn’t kidnapped by Mohg, but instead planned it with Mohg for him to steal him away. If Miquella found out/figured out it required a lot of bodies or blood to create an Erdtree than who better to help him with it than the blood lord himself, and it would makes Mohg’s proclamation make more sense when he says “this is the beginning of our dynasty” when it actually was, because they’re working together.
I very much agree. I always wondered why the strongest person in the lands between, who never knew defeat, isn't going to get him, no, she specificially says, she awaits him. Like, she knows where he is, she sits chilled in her chair, sleeping, waiting. Not bothered by anything.
@allimJ until the tarnished of no renowns crazy ass came in and started wrecking house
@@allimJ I really hope From Soft pulls a fast one on us this time and allows us to spare the life of a boss, and we can actually reunite the siblings when we achieve Miquella's ending. Maybe even try to rekindle the plan to bring Godwyn back from the dead.
Maybe Miyazaki finally learned how to make at least *some* happy endings lol.
@@theenderdestruction2362 😂 Yeah your absolutely right. This might have taken years of careful planning and sacrifice all undone by an amnesic hobo who killed Mohg simply because we could.
Except the Remembrance of the Blood Lord reads as such
"Wishing to raise Miquella to full godhood, Mohg wished to become his consort, taking the role of monarch. **But no matter how much of his bloody bedchamber he tried to share, he received no response from the young Empyrean.**"
17:40 "When the Ashes are two, a flame alighteth.
Thou'rt Ash, and fire befits thee, of course..."
It feels like a last Firekeeper holding the last Firelink blade
I wonder if that female figure in the flames might be Melina 🤔
It actually looks as though the dead lion dancers (in the wide shot) are actually 3 separate lion costumes with two operators per lion. Each cape has two spears holding them up, one body per spear.
Good catch. I like to imagine they aren't even two people but rather a hideous amalgam of multiple human torsoes and bodies like the revenants and the grafted scions. I think the scions are created in imitation of these original amalgamations.
It's stated that they are two omen in the lion costume you can see the feet which look like morgot's and omen we have already seen and the horns
First 3 phase boss fight maybe
@@nemesisundead83fias champions technically
Lion Dancer Duo boss fight confirmed?!?!
21:07 I think we've actually already seen five of these NPCs, not four!
You didn't mention the martial artist with the black coat and flat hat who was seen in the previous trailer battling a knight... provided that was indeed this NPC and not a player wearing their clothes...
We've seen 6 actually. The cloaked one 2nd from the right is who was standing in Mohg's bossroom at the start of the gameplay trailer. The hem of the cloak and the boots doesn't match Melina's whatsoever (Melina's cloak is a featureless wool cloak, and her boots are the Traveler's set boots) and we have to realize that for many players going into the dlc: Melina is a pile of ashes.
Shit, good finds gents.
Also in the newest promotional image from fromsoftware we actually see the main knight with the helmet off and thier blade
Yes!
I’ve dubbed him black belt Gotthard. I can’t wait for whatever that weapon is.
good looks shouting out Queelag, her vids are super in depth /helpful for anyone tryna get caught up on all the lore prior to DLC
@@konrad1916ooohhh a new type
A little pop etymology: Gloam is not a color. 'Gloam' is a verb meaning to darken toward night (and it's a noun, but we'll get to that in a bit). 'Gloaming' is a noun meaning twilight or dusk. So you could say something like, "Inside the portal shines a golden sky in opposition to the gloaming sky without." Consequently, in modern English, the Gloam-Eyed Queen should really be the Gloaming-Eyed Queen, but to make matters more complicated--'gloam' was once a noun meaning the same thing as 'gloaming'. But since the events with the Queen take place long ago, an archaic noun actually fits for her. Both 'gloam' and 'gloaming' trace back to Old English 'glōm', meaning twilight or dusk.
Thank you!
I'm smelling George's beard in this one Lol
That scene looks like Marika sealing off the Land of Shadow from the Lands Between like a fkin oblivion gate. Possibly with some sort of Griffith-esque sacrifice
something that wanst mentioned:
The roman looking soldiers of Messmers Army have a lot in common to Ds Twinned Armor, the helmet especially has the same kind of bronze faceplate and trimming.
Exactly, which reminds me how blind the D twins seem to be with the Golden Order.
also i don't want to get ahead of myself but if you look at d's helmet next to the mask of the womb omen thing that got revealed the other day.....?
I have been playing with this set lately, and while it may be a bit hard to spot due to wear, I think you can see snakes around the symbol in the cape.
Why is this exact comment pasted over and over again
20:23 Instead of sites of grace, I think its very likely that those Miquella "checkpoints" are the source of the "new way of powering up" Miazaki talks about on the interviews. Everyone seems to assume you would get those power ups by defeating bosses, but I think these make a bit more sense. Like there's one upgrade checkpoint at each major dungeon, behind a boss fight, similar to how great runes and divine towers work.
Or they are Key pieces like the Great Runes and we need a certain Amount to progress
I think the beginning of the trailer is an offering that Marika is making to the greater will and the entrance she's holding it up in is the primordial crucible. The entrance she's at looks like the entrance we go into with the erdtree and she may have basically supplanted the crucible into what we now know as the erdtree. Basically I think the crucible was used as an incubator/shell for the erdtree grew from.
hearing your theory, i think marika tricked gloam eyed queen via radagon, then repeat the same with renalla. Messmer would be the child of that relationship. another wild guess is land of shadow were actually the "real world" and the deathless world is the world created via elden ring, messmer's war and tyranny was actually moving (plus resetting) all the souls into lands between, basically bringing everyone to live eternally in the "afterlife".
What if there’s a land of light (life) the same way there’s a land of shadow (death), and the lands between are literally between the two. And normally souls go from life to death, but Marika found a way to stop the dead from progressing all the way to death.
Perhaps she made the lands between a limbo you never get to leave.
This doesn’t totally make sense, but symbolically Limbo is literally a “land between” life and death.
I'm not trusting miquella, I believe that he will try to perhaps sacrifice us to create his own world where he makes it better than marikas
@@NickYarmey-uj3gd just read another comment suggesting the lands between exist as an interstice between the shadow realm and the land "bathed in rays of gold" that godrick refers to when he dies. It's definitely a possibility
Wild how much the shot of falling St Trina looks like the nascent butterfly ey
Becouse you can create sleep pots and etc using those so it makes sence
@jajatodo2072 shut it little kid
@jajatodo2072 yeah duuuude!!
I'm wondering why Vaati and people in the comments refer to this character as St Trina like we know it's him ?
Is there visual representations of st Trina in the game ?
Beside knowing that St Trina is likely Miquella, why would this character would be St Trina specifically? Besides from looking like a nascent butterfly, which is associated to both Miquella and St Trina.
@@MeraHarch the torch shown at 21:30. Ordinarily I'd also be skeptical of a theory with so little evidence but in this case i think it's almost certain
FINALLY!
Man, I've been waiting too Ongbal, great to see you here SoulsLord
The legend!
Of all people…
the man himself
We already what you will do
I see a lot of people assuming that the tree we see in the trailer is some sort of corrupted version of the erdtree, but I noticed while watching the story trailer that you can see the erdtree in the distant background, behind the shadowy tree.
Since Marika had her Radagon, maybe Miquella has his Trina. A separate half that exists to eventually make him whole, but unlike Marika he chooses to deny Trina and forge a different path?
And Trina might be Melina as well!
@@Velshin1986or melina might be the gloam eyed queen's other half
@@mydrillasanjay5397 Melina says " my purpose is given to me by my mother at the foot of the erdtree ".
He has a saint trina video
@@modernwarhero8447maybe saint Trina is also Melina and all of them are Miquella alter ego kinda like Marika and Radagon
I've always found it strange how most people think that Miquella is inspired by Griffith from Berserk, while we literally have Marika in front of our eyes: using strong and loyal warriors, and mass sacrifices, to establish her order, based on a great tree.
Miquella would rather use his own blood than people's lives to make his tree grow.
I think Miquella is truly as kind as the characters in game say, and Marika is the one inspired by Griffith and his deceptions.
I had the same thought. Miquella seems to have bits and pieces of Griffith and Rickert especially but also Guts and Moonlight Boy sprinkled in, plus whatever unique aspects Miyazaki throws in, but Marika seems to be the chief Hawk of Light figure here, with Leyndell as her Falconia and the Erdtree as her World-Tree.
Marika was the one who climbed a highway-mountain of corpses and sacrifices, covered in blood, to reach her own personal paradise where everyone worships her.
Miquella wants to start an eclipse, he looks feminine despite being male, he has similar hair, everyone seems to love and adore him for no clear reason, but he also shares many story aspects with Rickert; Miquella, in his egg, was the one left behind, the one who did not share in the fate of the other demigods, and he lived in that "paradise" for a while before discovering the truth underneath it, the insane and dark things kept secret, and now he uses tools of his own making, at the cost of his own body, a body he no longer cares for, to presumably go against the kingdom?
The comparisons aren't going to be 1:1 because Elden Ring is, after all, a completely different story than Berserk, but the similarities make it so fun to guess at their motives before experiencing the DLC ourselves.
Same, Marika fits the comparison with Griffith
I'd honestly be more interested to see a truly *good* character in a soulsborne game. It'd be such a change of pace compared to the usual selfish motivations that I think it's even more compelling.
for some reason marika being radagon reminds me of griffith as well
@@JohnBadger17well, Rya never had any evil intentions
That first part is some insanely heavy handed imagery for the birth of a new age
1:47 pulls hair from what looks like... ...a corpse. Not my first thought 🙃
Fanny
@@NotAnAmerican Username checks out.
Love when creators actually show other creators channel when mentioning them. Increases chances of people actually checking them out and provides spelling of their names. Nice one Vaati
This trailer was incredibly evocative, especially the Marika and Messmer scenes. My hype for the DLC is now reaching critical levels.
That whole beginning scene is my favorite piece of art fromsoft has ever made.
yeah its out of this world
Marika feet in 4k 🤤 thank you Miyazaki
@@theepicsealshow123 someone said it before I had to!
@@etinarcadiaego7424 a fellow intellectual with taste I see
@@theepicsealshow123Feet confirmed. 10/10 expansion.
It took 7 days for the AC6 video to reach about 800K views. But it took only 2 days to reach 1M views on a trailer analysis. 😔
Yep. It was always going to be that way. But the AC video was still more than worth making
Something I’ve noticed about the gate scene, is that the shape of it is near identical to the erdtree - particularly the odd section of the Erdtree that’s inexplicably a different colour. It’s always seemed weird to me that most of the Erdtree is gold and glowing, but there’s a random brown bit, that for whatever reason doesn’t burn like the rest of it does.
I've always thought that the current Erdtree wasn't really any kind of a tree at all, but an illusion or installation (religion and corrupt authority does this all the time) overtop of something like a gateway or portal, or a hub to other worlds that makes the Lands Between literally the lands between other lands.
If I were telling the story, the power that was granted to Marika would have come with the cost of sealing the other lands off by putting a giant, power-sucking parasite tree overtop of that portal, and installing the Greater Will as the governing power while they feed on the golden sap of the tree.
"You get power, we get control. Don't worry, we're nice, just do what you are told."
Anyway, I'm off topic.
Something I have never see someone realized is that if Miquella left everything behind, even his fate then he left behind Malenia too, maybe that's why he left his blinding strength, that strength is his sword, that strength is Malenia, Blade of Miquella
Yeah "blinding strength" was a weird thing to describe Miquella. He is many things but no one mentions his power or strength. And Malenia is partially blind due to the scarlet rot. But this leaves a scarier question. Malenia is incredibly loyal to Miquella. Why wouldn't he let Malenia in on his plans? Why would he leave her languishing, waiting for his return? Why would he... abandon her?
EDIT: People, I didnt mean that Miquella isnt powerful. When Miquella is mentioned they mention his intelligence, faith, benevolence, the loyalty he inspires in people, efforts to save his sister, etc. His power as an empyrean is the last thing anyone remembers of him. There are no mentions of him ever using his vast power, probably because he has better tools at his disposal. So it is strange that the trailer explicitly mentions that, lest it be symbolic in someway.
@@invaderzam imo cause he's largely seeking options on how to save her. That's a lot of his whole inspiration as an individual, is to master the fundamental laws of existence, in order to find a cure for her affliction.
And judging by how the rest of this is set up so far, he found out about the shadow world. I would imagine either while he was in his cocoon trying to grow the haligtree, and like vatii said, perhaps he found out what the true cost of a tree such as the erdtree would be, given he has a deep understanding of the order of things this would make sense.
Or alternatively perhaps he found out about the shadow world from mogh, mogh after all, does have many connections to the shadow world indirectly. He's one of Marika's children, he's an omen, perhaps the formless mother has some connection to the crucible/shadow world.
I hope we get a lot of info on miquellas journey up to this point, cause he's so mysterious so far. Very excited to see what fromsoft has been cooking
@invaderzam Remember he made her the promise to come back, maybe when he found out the cure for her Scarlet Rot, ascending to God hood would have been his answer but if Malenia is already in game and we can kill her it means he already abandoned her, it reminds me a bit of like Artorias and Sif (Maybe we can get a extra cutscene or alt intro of Malenia is we kill/help Miquella before fighting her, just like Artorias and Sif, or Maliketh when you do his death root questline)
In any case, of the lands between are disconnected from the land of shadow and the Knights you see In the trailer followed Miquella footsteps, why not Malenia? Who would be more qualified to help Miquella in his way in the land of shadow than the undefeated Malenia? It seems like he purposely left her behind, maybe he send her to beat Radan so the stars can move again and create a new fate for him and Malenia
@@THE_MOONMAN Maybe he also didn't want to introduce Scarlet Rot to the Land of Shadow? I mean his whole thing is to purge the Outer Gods from Lands Between/that World, and it seems like in the Land of Shadow most have already been hunted down to the last stragglers by Messmer, so the only ones really left are Messmer/Golden Order(?)
Allowing the Avatar of the Goddess of Rot to enter now would probably be a very bad idea, knowing how rapidly Rot can and will spread...
Hmm reminds me a bit of how Griffith views guts in berserk.
Note, when you hear a crash, wind blow, and Elden beasts ost play, I’ve heard someone say that it must literally be when the Elden beast came down to appear to Marika
This would be excellent storytelling of the corrupt religion that is the Elden Ring/Elden Beast/Greater Will. Get the inhabitants of this world to fracture their reality and social structure through ages of conflict and deceit, Marika uses a Rune Arc (or a few?) to gain power, this allows the Elden Beast to come crashing down. She thinks she's getting godlike power (well, she does), but all she did was seal her fate as a puppet of the Greater Will.
I wonder if the Messmer guy has something to do with the Snake in the Volcano mannor. The whole "Sin" being linked to snakes is a recurring theme there and the flame he commands does look a lot like the reddish volcanic flame that Mr Snake uses.
"An affair from which gold arose... and so too was shadow born." I believe it refers to the erdtree itself arising as it grew, as well as it's shadow counterpart.
I think it refers to multiple things that arose from all this.
@@emdeejay7432 It could very well refer to both. Poetically and more literally. As the order that arose mirrors the tree itself. The tree leaves falling also being a sign that the age was fading.
Smoughtown made the observation that Messmer may be the Hades of this pantheon, given an underworld to rule and ensure none of its denizens escape (in this case, because Marika wouldn't want the story of the land of shadow told).
That got me thinking. What if that makes Miquella and St. Trina analogues of Orpheus and Eurydice? This DLC may be a rescue mission of sorts. Maybe St. Trina's disappearance was being pulled into the land of shadow, and while Miquella wants to become a god and share his eternal bounty with all, he's afraid that if he ascends before incorporating his "other half" into himself, he'll end up repeating the mistakes of Marika and Radagon.
I think this is a good theory, especially considering what we know about how this affects the ending of the game. FromSoft has said that this isn't going to change the outcomes already available to the player before the DLC, so I think the connection between Miquella/St. Trina and Orpheus/Eurydice is a good one. Ultimately, it might be that Miquella fails to reunite with his alter ego.
I never realized that Miquella's alter ego is most likely inherited from his parents lol.
Is this the secret Marika wanted to hide? That it wasn't the crucible that birthed life, but life that birthed the crucible? Now I'm starting to consider that the Omen curse might be, in actuallity, the product of the collective lingering hatred of all those sacrificed to grow the Erdtree.
fascinating theory! i like this
this is how you people will find out she is the villain and the greater will was trying to help all along despite being cut off years ago by the nox
🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥 👍🏻 your theory Is perfection
This is also quite literally the plot of berserk (Idea of Evil, don't google if you don't want deep berserk spoilers), which would check out as Miyazaki is a huge Miura fan.
I wouldn't say that. They are literally killing Omen in the trailers. So the Omen were there before, if this is the creation of the Erdtree (which I think it is)
So I was doing some recap of the elden ring lore with some of my friends and we notice something interesting. (Not DLC related)
All of what can be considered the “Cursed children of Marika” seem to follow the naming scheme of their mother Marika, while the otherwise “healthy” children seemed to follow the naming conventions of her consort at the time. And I was beginning to speculate on whether or not that may have any wider lore implications. I find it more interesting in that the first two (Morgott and Mohg) seem to mirror the first issue with Marika’s ideal for the eternal golden order. That being the idea of a “before” with the twins bearing aspects of the crucible. Where the last set of twins (Malenia and Miquella) appear to foreshadow the end of her “eternal” age with Malenia symbolizing the Rot that was beginning to settle into Marika’s golden order, as it had to be changed from her original vision with every new ideology incorporated within; where miquella foreshadows the beginning of a new age which has been halted in progression by Marika’s eternal golden order.
All of the cursed children of Radagon/Marika have come in pairs. Before the DLC there was speculation that Melina was a secret triplet with Miquella and Malenia, but what if she and Messmer are twins? The flame, and the kindling it burns.
@@chrayezI believe Melina and Messmer could actually be the Gloam eyed Queen's children who was seduced by Marika.
When u said Marika wanted no songs sung about this place or the war it made me think of the old singing bat enemies, and I think I remember their translated lyrics saying something like "golden one whom were you so mad at?" And that made me think what if they're referring to mesmers war
That song is about the shattering.
@@dippking4638 ohhhhhh
Fastest objects in the universe:
3) Photon
2) Tachyon
1) Vaati analyzing a new From trailer
lad spotted a site of grace that is about a size of a grain of rice LMFAO.
Tachyon doesn't exist. It's a hypothesis.
@@obi-wankenobi5411 hello there.
No..
Number 1 is Ubisoft making Bvllshit games😅
Just noticed that while all the warriors at the end of the trailer are facing one way, there's one furthest at the back who is not and has his back to camera. Interesting...
I was thinking the same thing, it almost looked like Gideon the all knowing but I'm still not sure.
He's the edgy anime guy in the group that crosses his arms and grunts
There's actually two rune arc shapes in that scene between the corpse piles - look at the shape the skirts are making below.
My first thought at the start of the trailer with the mountain of bodies was ‘So that's how you make Erdtree’.
What if Messmer is a child of the Gloam-Eyed Queen and Radagon - thus a child of Marika by proxy, who came to his mother’s (but not birth mother) side? I feel also like his flame, and the gateway of bodies, are connected to the “blasphemous” flame that Rykard sought to tap.
The fire is black before turning red as he summons it ...
YOOOOOO THATS SUCH A VALID THEORY
I thought the same, since the coloration and viscera of the gate seems very close to the tendrils on the Blasphemous Blade
The spears that messmer uses have the same kittle fleshy wigglies that rykards sword does also
I think the same thing Marika used radagon to seduce the GEQ and then had radagon betray her
I think that the glass shard description is a reference to the Erdtree: looks shiny and impressive from a distance but is ultimately more trouble than it is worth.
When marika offers the runes, that sunset is the same one in the Elden beast arena
What I found interesting was the difference between narrators in the trailers. In the first, they considered Miquella’s charm as ‘terrifying’ and seemingly manipulative, while in the story trailer, he is considered ‘kindly’ and having sacrificed all for his journey. I think it’s entirely possible that the second narrator has a skewed view of events, as they have supposedly become a vehement follower of Miquella and were thus seduced by his charm.
Or the other way around, first narrator believes in marika's grace, and therefor deems miquella a blasphemist.
Can they both be right?
Can what is good for us and our world, be bad, terrifying even, for him in his? Or vis versa?
@@tonylawson2222 good thinking, also possible
Yeah my initial thoughts when watching the trailer was "I'm pretty sure Messmer has a different take on this..."
It reads like a propaganda video: they are oh so bad and do such terrible things, they kill all these beings without you knowing, they do bad things to good people...but not US, we are oh so great and good and righteous, our quest is a noble one. Its really heavy handed, look at all the red aggressive colours and killing and "Messmer oh no Messmer bad bad bad"...and now look at us with our peaceful lake with a nice rune in it and all these peaceful colours, isnt this lovely?
@@tonylawson2222no it cant be!
cuz Its is right now.
About the Crucible Theory @ around 11 min mark, they started piling corpses in Castle Morne too, maybe because thats how they did things before? The way the Crucible Tree was created
The whole thing also just flows really well with this game's constant stream of "subverted hyperbole" (Absurd- or metaphorical-sounding descriptions and titles being completely literal).
What, you thought the crucible was some immaterial well of life energy? Nah, we literally need to run every living thing through a blender, so get to work.
Marika planting the Erdtree: "Hey guys, welcome back! On today's episode of 'Will It Blend?' we will be turning an entire city-state into a giant tree!"
Personal theory:
The imagery of Marika pulling out those golden threads has very clear references to lower regions of the human body.
You'll note that Radagon's fractured body had the three rings of the elden ring in his chest.
As you pointed out the upper arc is what Marika is crucified on.
So where is the lower arc. Literally. Where on or about the body is the lower arc, given we know the rings are in the chest, and the upper arc is over the head.
Following from that, where is Marika pulling these threads from, which represent AN arc, perhaps not the upper arc...
I get that it's not a huge observation, and a bit crass at that. But we literally never see the lower arc on Radagon or Marika, just the rings and upper arc.
And now we have a trailer showing AN arc being removed from a lower part of a body. Seems like a clear direct reference to this being the lower arc, though I have no idea what that means for the lore.
It’s not crass. Bloodborne has tons of themes involving menstrual cycles and the like. One could even interpret the bloody gate at the beginning of this trailer as being vaginal.
@@Justin9700I remember figuring out what kind of Blood we were getting from the ladies… Real Insight +1 moment.
It clearly looks like a vagina - either literally or symbolically - I don't know why people are weird about it. Symbolically it's the moment Marika 'gave birth' and began her Order.
@@bannedmann4469 ...OH
yes! i love this Messmer theory. i've been thinking about it since the trailer dropped. it seems perfectly up Marika's alley to conceive a batshit crazy firstborn to help fight your wars.
In the group shot, I think we've seen the Big Hat Guy before as well since he looks very similar to the guy doing the spinning kicks in the gameplay trailer
Given the hidden eye of Mesmer, I think it more likely that he and Melina are siblings, both children of the gloom-eyed queen, and their father is Marika/Radagon.
Could potentially hint that Marika and Radagon were less divided at that point, because Marika is the traitor and assumedly that means she was the one in the relationship with the Gloam Eyed Queen.
Yeah, I thought about Messmer being son of the gloam-eyed queen cause of the closed eye and the fact that his flames are both black and red, like a mix of giant's fire and godflame. He says "Mother" in the dialogue but I think he is referring to the gloam-eyed queen assassinated/betrayed by Marika. Maybe Messmer is just taking revenge for her death mother purging everything related to Marika and Miquella in that world.
That is the worst theory I’ve seen
Just cuz bro had a hidden eye that’s why u think that fr
@@Valkyrie649 imagine it's the correct one when the dlc comes out, that would be really funny.
8:55 I see the reddish tint, yet we are first shown this hair being dragged across blood-soaked ground.
ui this would make sense!
Yes
The reddish tint i think is actually an artefact of the videography and its more like chromatic abberation.
Also the fact the foraems are rather manly instead of feminine slender forearms.
I’m not sure if it’s important, but the wall of bodies that queen Marika stands between is oddly similar to the designs found on Praetor Rykard. Not just the sword but the arms and bodies coming out of the snake portion of Rykard as well.
My feeling is that maybe Mesmer is the first born, but that either he rebelled or whatever Marika wanted him to do got way out of hand. Marika might have run away because of what she set loose in Mesmer. Perhaps that’s why fire is blasphemous in The Golden Order, and why Volcano Manor use it. It’s blasphemous because Marika doesn’t want anything to do with Mesmer.
Also, I feel there’s some connection between the corpse gate, Rykard, the immortal serpent, and Mesmer’s snake motif.
Perhaps Rykard is worshipping Mesmer in his blasphemy? Maybe the immortal serpent comes from Mesmer?
All just guesses but I feel there’s something there.
It would pretty much fit the story of Lucifer rebelling against GOD and therefore being thrown into Hell as it´s warden.
Rykard also kinda looks like the corpse gate. If that gate is the primordial crucible, could he be trying to make a "new" one? And if so, would that be the reason why he ia blasphemous? He is trying to usurp Marika after all, so it woukd make sense for him to have his own erdtree project
21:07
We've also seen the big hat Logan looking fellow in the previous trailer, the martial artist attacking the charcoal knights
Pretty sure that the one behind big hat has also been seen too, riding through the weird swamp on Torrent? Maybe a Torrent given for each follower of Miquella
btw Messmer the Impaler wasm teased in network version through fire head assets in limgrave if i am not mistaken .
lmao i think i saw it in the network test version, this could be huge and might means the messmer invaded the base game land
The potential connection to the omen is fascinating. The omen in the lands between are known to sleep and dream of something nightmarish with a tormentor (the omen killers wear masks meant to inspire the same fear). Given Miquella’s connection to sleep and the land of shadow, I wonder if they are dreaming of some ancient history as exposed by Miquella. Could the tormenter be Mesmer? Could it be Miquella? The lore and narrative style of these games is so much fun, the possibilities are endless.
1-Melina was born at the the base of the erdtree!
2-She was burned and bodiless! (burned by whom, Messmer's flame!?)
3-She has a gloamy eye with a very clear indigo tint (gloam-eyed, also gloam means twilight sky which we see in this trailer)
4-She was given purpose by her "mother"! ("mother" here could be the gloam-eyed queen not Marika)
5-She wanted to restore destined death!
My guess that all this time in the original game Melina was kinda in service of her mother the gloam-eyed queen goals (restore destined death and kill the gods), potentially she could be the daughter of Radagon and the Gloam-eyed Queen and she was helping us destroy Marika's regime also as revenge for what Marika did to her mother (the whole shape-shifting, affair and betrayal business she is known for, Ranni probably feels the same after what Marika did to her mother Rennala).
Also the thing that Marika puts her bloodied hand into to pull the golden strings is most likely a Godskin Swaddling Cloth --> Sacred cloth of the Godskin Apostles, made from supple skin sewn together, the Gloam-Eyed Queen cradles newborn apostles swaddled in this cloth. Soon they will grow to become the death of the gods.
You should thank Eugene the Author for figuring it was the Swaddling Cloth.
Pretty unhinged ngl
@@patrickkinnear8625 lols, you never know with Miyazaki XD
I agree with most of this, but one thing that confuses me is why Melina, if she is the daughter of the Gloam-Eyed Queen, can cite Marika's words.
@@lili-jin130 Because she is also the daughter of Marika (as Radagon) same way Renni is the daughter of Rennla and Marika/Radagon .. so she can understand her message as well.
Gloam Eyed Queen is likely Marika before she become a god. We do not know what purpose was given to Melina, but she wanted us to access the Erdtree, which would eventually lead us to essentially kill Marika. A task given purposely by Marika herself to the Tarnished. Hewg was enslaved by Marika to serve the Roundtable hold to forge a weapon capable of slaying a God, which is actually Marika herself :)
Marika wanted the golden order to end, Radagon did not.
I think it's quite likely that this will touch on the Gloam-Eyed Queen in some manner. This place is specifically noted as being where Marika began and that scene at the beginning is one of few times we've ever even seen her or Radagon, her own roots will play a major role alongside Miquella's own parts; their beginnings and Miquella's new ending.
Something interesting I noticed is in Messmer's flames. Their colour matching that of Destined Death could infer that he was indeed acting on his mother's orders, being that she is the one that commands it in the end, but it could also show him fighting in the name of the Godskins instead. They wielded the power of death in its full strength before Marika took the Rune for herself. This flows well with how we know snakes are seen as traitors to Marika's order, if this son of hers did indeed betray her to aid her sworn enemy and rival. Additionally, and this is a bit of a stretch, but to me his 'Impaler' moniker seems like it could fit well with the Godskins, akin to setting up their corpses as a step before they are skinned.
I have a theory that Messmer's flame is the missing part of Blackflame, combine the two and you get destined death.
I think the mentioning of seduction and the possible dead gloam eyed queen as well as mesmir being a child of merika might hint that merika/radagon gave birth to mesmir with the gloam eyed queen. It would explain mesmir being able to wield flame something that the glooam eyes queen has mastery of this would imply 1 why flame is considered a sin because it is the power of the original faith that powered the world before the beginning 2 how one of merikas children would be able to use said sinful flame and 3 why he was abandoned and deemed as if he is a traitor. If this is true then this would be the betrayal of a spouse merika taking the throne of the gloam eyes queen after she seduced her until she was able to take the throne for their own
Also something has to tie to Melina here. Her having a Gloam colored right eye, could be important in the dlc.
My theory is that Melina is a child of the Gloam eyed queen and she wants vengeance for Marikas betrayal or something.
16:10 I think I gotta go with what Lokey has said on this and that the Lion Dancers are 2 people and I think the impaled guys prove that. What we have are 3 lion dancers impaled with the front dancers on one stake with their head and the rear dancers on the others with the cape stretching from head to tail.
20:52 "A veritable Band of the Hawk"
Knowing WHAT Miquella does (and tries to do) makes this line hit hard.
No matter what the DLC will truly be about, this right now is the Golden Age of Lore Hunting. The daily bombardment with high quality vids and theories is just incredible. Man, it's great to be in this community.
Could it be that the corpse she was reaching into was a fellow numen, and the reason why they are so rare now is because she killed all of them, used their runes, and their bodies to make the erd tree?
you might be on to something there, numen are known for golden hair
Except all the Black Knife assassins are Numen and you can start the game as one.
Erd tree
Red tree
Gotta be a connection!
@MrFallenone That's a good point that I didn't think of, maybe for the black knives, she kept them alive in order to use them, and for us, maybe we were outside of the land of shadow when it happened, or we escaped, who knows, but it's fun to speculate :)
One thing I noticed about the mountain of viscera is the clear resemblance to skinless people, which I think lends more credit to the Godskin Apostles theory
Marika standing in a dark realm surrounded by bloodied bodies whilst claiming godhood has such "God Hand and the Eclipse"-vibes from Berserk.
There is also just no way that Melina and Messmer both only having one functioning eye is coincidence.
One thing I noticed which might not have been intentional but the silhouette of Saint Trina falling in the trailer looks a lot like the item icon for the Nascent Butterflies. Could further the connection there
Dont we already know the 3 butterflies represent the 3 children of Marika?
@@MrFallenone Soft confirmed. Aeonian = Malenia and Nascent = Miquella is pretty much guaranteed, but the question is who the Smoldering one relates to. Base game it was assumed to be Melina, but now it might be Messmer, and if Messmer is technically a child of Radagon but not Marika (think like Ragadon and Rennal's kids) that makes things complicated.
Miquella is abandoning his destiny in a similar way to Ranni: casting away her empyrean flesh and denying the will of the two fingers. St. Trina is that empyrean form, but unlike Ranni Miquella has two forms, two bodies, and so he doesn't need to do any black knife stuff. If you examine the endings of Elden Ring there's a lot of similar threads to Miquella's journey: the crucible, rejection of grace, trying to create a new, more perfect order, the omen curse, and the rune of death.
Maybe a wild idea everytime he is reborn he can be born as a boy or girl the girl becomes St trina while the boy grows to be miquella himself maybe st trina is another god of some form
All other empyreans are women. Only Miquella is the only exception. Like you said it could be that St. Trina is the part of him that makes him an empyrean. A rejection of his fate as an empyrean would be a rejection of her entirely.
@Poorcheeseboy at the time, yes, I haven't seen anything saying that they must have been women ranni was next in line to become the new queen. Hence, she stole the rune of death and masterminded the night of black knives
Hey Vaati! Long time fan here, I may have caught something that helps us reveal who the character Queen Marika loots at the beginning of the trailer is.
Everyone is noting how its likely Godskin that covers the "corpse", and how you can see the stitching visible on the folds of the cloth (as you mention at 2:57). However, take a look at the painting of the old man (who becomes impaled through the skull with the branch/candlestick looking thing in the first trailer) and the woman next to him (you have this photo on screen at 6:40) from the first DLC trailer. If you look closely, the edges of the outermost shawl she is wearing has the same horizontal stitch lines that go over the side of the front of the cloth. She also appears to be wearing some kind of blonde hair/tassle thing in combination with her own darker hair, which could be part of what Queen Marika steals (if she "creates" Gold and Shadow by stealing the blonde "hair", then the dead woman only has black hair left, meaning Shadow).
I don't know what this means (my headcanon is that the woman is the Gloam Eyed Queen), but I'm confident that the woman in the painting is a very important character in the lore, and I believe that its the same woman that Queen Marika loots in the beginning of the story trailer.
amazing attention to
detail, cant wait to see what fromsoft is cooking up though
Oooo good eye. So maybe that chick was gestating some sort of rune and marika stole it? Some slight similarities to how Fia makes her mending rune after laying with Godwyn.
You're completly right my guy. It certainly is the body of the GEQ (I never noticed that she has black and yellow hair in the paiting) and given that she appears pregnant in the painting, she probably is Messmer's mother. That would explain why he embodies so many blasphemies from Marika's perspective, and why he is considered in equal foot to the other children of Marika. Then, unless the oldman is a completly new character we could theorize that he is the Dynast/John Elden Ring
@@caiobarbosa7680 Messmer's mother is Marika, Miyazaki said it already in an interview
I also think that is her back side sliced apart in her more grotesque godskin attire while she is being looted by marika
@VaatiVidya I believe you correct and assuming that it's Radagon holding up the remnants of the olden ring in the opening shot because every time Momma M has some serious ass kicking to do it's Radagon. We even see this in the final fight.
21:11
Edit: Nvm, I'm dumb, they're quite different lol
The person standing between Sleepy Mask, and Tanky Boy is for sure the person we see stepping into Mohg's arena. The bottom of their skirt has the same pattern.
We've also seen Smallhat Logan using the new martial arts weapon.
I would love for the Lands Between to be a limbo between the "Lands of Shadow" and the "Land bathed in rays of gold" that Godrick talks about in his death
It's crazy how after two years no one has cracked what "The Lands Between" actually means despite it being introduced very early on.
It would seem "Land bathed in rays of gold" refers to the glorified stories of the past of the Golden Order. Like the glorified image of Godfrey, who was in reality a barbarian tool of the golden order who himself was taken advantage of, and accomplishments attributed to him were embellished. Followers of the Golden Order yearn to return to a past that never existed, fabricated by the Golden Order. They resist change and deny forces beyond the Greater Will, such as Rot and Death. For example, Radahn is obsessed with this fabricated past, and wants to be like Godfrey. Radahn doesn't understand how impossible this goal is, his faith in the holism of the Greater Will leaves him unprepared for the Rot and he succumbs. But yeah, can't wait to figure out anything about The Lands of Shadow, that will probably make the true nature of The Lands Between much more clear.
@@geordiejones5618 I have cracked it. It's the UK. The Lands Between is the UK and Leyndell is London.
Pretty sure that the "Land bathed in rays of Gold" that Godrick mentions is the Altus Plateau.
@@amannamedsquid313 Mist likely, but it would be cooler if it wasn't and blud was going delusional
0:28 "I hate it. I love it. Lets break it down." *Starts dancing*
11:06 the red tinge in the gold could also link back to Marika/Radagon with gold being intertwined with red.
Im not sure if it's the lighting but a 0:02 it looks like the back of mesmer's hair is blonde whilst the front is red, possibly confirming this is Marika and Radagon's child
Well this aged well
The Crucible as a primordial version of the Erdtree makes sense given that this shadow Erdtree is being sapped into a structure than can be called a crucible.
Great video! As always! The way Messmer is described here reminds me of Hela from the MCU's take on Thor. In terms of a previous child that was used for war and discarded to pave the way for an empire of gold.
the person sitting in the flames, gives me parallels of vyke on the cover
I want that Golden Armor.
I fear the way on how to get it.
@@dice5709 real 😞
@@HysticER i have a theory you won't be able to attack him
My personal hot take at time 10:00, is that this is the creation of the current Erd Tree. That golden hue coming from the husk of these corpses is reminiscent of the golden "door" we go through to face Radagon/Elden Beast. And as we know, bodies are buried near the roots of the Erd Tree so that they may "become one with it" again (or something along those lines). I think the great Erd Tree we know and love was actually built with the corpses of Marika's enemies (maybe).
Although, the way the appendages, et al, look, most closely resemble the way the Big Snek Man^tm sword look. And past that, maybe minus all the blood, the way Grafting looks (like with Godrick).
HOLY FUCK MAYBE MARIKA GRAFTED THE ERD TREE ITSELF. Maybe that's actually why Godrick is so obsessed with grafting. And we could say that Rykard grafted all those limbs onto his sword...hmmm will revise upon further information intake (or not, we'll see).
Edit @ 10:25 well shit lmao
Thought @ 14:02 (not related tho): Miyazaki stated that no one had found/realized/etc a certain thing from the base game. I'm starting to think it's the symbolization of how an older world/group of people were pushed underground, not to see the light of day again. Could the ancient cities underground be a proof of concept that the whole entire old world/crucible world was literally buried beneath this new world/order? A Golden World literally built on top of what once was?
Miquella's great runes might be how we adjust the 'attack power' in the DLC.
20:52 Band of the Hawk 😭
😭
Oh god Judeau, why!!! 😭
"let's break it down"
**Cuts to vaati breakdancing**
What if the person amidst the fire (17:36) is actually Melina? Miquella abandoned his flesh to be able to traverse to this realm of shadow. Ranni is able to travel as an illusion and she gave away her flesh as well. Both Ranni and Melina share the same particle effect when they appear in certain parts of the story. What if they're walking between realms? Interesting thought.
Interesting but tbh I don't feel like the body plan matches. She looks similar to rot goddess but not actual malenia. Ntm the cloth behind her isn't a signature of malenia, if anything it reminds me of the black knives who are numen. I expect this woman to be a numen and that the shadow realm is the original home of the numens
@@CleopatraKingnot malenia Melina in her original form
She's too tall. Melina is shorter
@@moosiemoose1337 Miquellas body in the cocoon is also bigger than that of a child, so height is a bit abstract in this world.
If you slow the video play speed down during this part you can see the embers are the same color as destined death deep blackish red. All other fire scenes are orange however fromsoftware is showing us this woman on her knees holding a spear is in fact a user of destined death. Perhaps GEQ or Melina?
I think the event at the beginning of the trailer - Marika reaching into the thing and standing at the thing and ascending to godhood - happens at the END of the war we see in the trailer. It is her having prevailed in her war against the god of the previous ag and standing inside the crucible next to the slain god. The same way we fight Radagon/Eldenbeast inside the erdtree.
But how come the narrator says "what followed was a war unseen" does that not imply that the war happens after?
@@limetitan It could be the clips are just purposefully being shown in a particular order, but not chronologically. Like there was a seduction and betrayal, then a war, and then, after the war, the clip we see of her pulling the runes out of the god.
The war followed the seduction and betrayal. It didn’t necessarily follow the exact scene that was shown in the trailer before that was said.
Nah, it's says "in the beginning" and "and thus too was shadow born" so we can tell this was before the shadow lands were even a thing. And that of course is where that war took place.
@@blastfiendsunite420 I kind of figured that the land of shadow wasn’t “shadow” then. It was maybe just a land. After the war, maybe it was banished to “shadow”.
That Enotria game actually looks awesome, gonna try it out today. Thanks for being genuine with your sponsorships!
It may have just been me, but when it shows the scene with the corpses on spears and fire behind, I hear a LOT of notes and vocals from what sounds like Abyss Watchers
10:25 I also first thought of that structure as something resembling the Erdtree but being something different with a similar purpose behind it. The "fleshy gate" also resembles the split in the Erdtree allowing for a look "inside".
Another thought that i had was that the gorey "gate" sorta looks like the cocoon of miquella.The theme and the colors of the cocoon with the crack look very similar to this gate in my opinion considering we will enter the DLC through the cocoon
That mass of flesh in the beginning reminds me of the description of The Crucible; where all life was one... Perhaps in a great mass of flesh and wounds.
I'd like to share my speculation which also might or might not come from visual misidentification.
So, when I was watching the trailer, it seemed to me that the strings Marika was holding were growing and extending at the wind, forming a veil-like thing. On that basis, along with narration and the gate, I believed that the scene depicts Marika separating the Lands Between from the Land of Shadows and veiling the latter, which is what we know from Miyazaki's interview she did.
I think the gateway looking thing of corpses is the arch leading into the Erdtree. The Erdtree eats corpses or has them all entangled through the roots as seen in a number of crypts, the whole thing is built off and out of those that died.
The Pre Erdtree veil is so mesmerizing, Also that blade 6:56 it reminds me of the Orphan's blade in Bloodborne, so much BB references.
18:35 Dude this song goes so unreasonably hard, I am READY FOR THE CRUSADE
I'd also like to point out that in the first shadow of the erdtree dlc trailer, there's a section where the player is running,on torrents back, through a swamp with dead trees towards a ruined building, well the water in that swamp has the same texture as the sky does in the dungeaters curse ending and also the crap that morgott throws up halfway threw the fight
Red hair is not a symbol of Radagon, but a symbol of a curse from the Fell God. Its been 2 years, people still get this mixed up, Red Braid Whip.
Ye but radagon has red hair, and it was a symbol for him.
@@__Man_after all the giants except the one we kill were wiped out
Dude, the Red Manes exist, and they're not rocking that wig to show deference to the Fire Giants.
@@AlriikRidesAgain He may be onto something though. What if Mesmer's origin did partially come from the Fell God in some way? Perhaps Marika slept with the Fell God or a servant of the Fell God in one of her many betrayals? If that's the case, then Mesmer would be a living reminder of a history Marika wants forgotten. It would make sense for her to send Mersmer to stay in the very city she wants sealed away and blotted out from history.
This is all tunnel-vision logic though. I could easily be missing something from the bigger picture.
The first thing I thought of when seeing that "gate" was that looks like the entrance to the Erdtree. Makes perfect sense to me that it was formed out of an innumerable mountain of corpses.
Alternate theory: the affair mentioned and the corpse Marika pulls those runes from are the same man we see in the painting