*PLEASE READ CAREFULLY* Please be a decent human being and keep your sexist/racist thoughts and conspiracy theories to yourself. External links are also a no-no. Comments that *advance* the conversation are most welcome.
Your video is actually one of the best that actually explains what people need to know to get high res lossless and clearly explains the equipment needed and what their limitations are if you have lesser hardware available. Great job!
Thank you, I was foolishly not checking the fact that I was using that basic 3.5mm to lightning adapter, which was keeping me from accessing 24/192. I just picked up the needed USB to lightning adapter, and now all is well in the 24/192 world. Thanks again, brother!
Some external DACs will not work in the configuration shown here because the power draw from iPad will be too high and the iPad will not output any signal. In that case, a power injection is required, i.e. a different lightning to USB adapter will do the trick, the one that accepts a power in from iPad charger.
In my experience, injecting power using CCK 3 isn't a guaranteed solution. Certainly with an older iPad mini with lightning, once I have the "this device uses too much power", nothing will persuade it otherwise. If I recall correctly, incompatible devices are the USB input on the Auralic Altair G1 and the Musical Fidelity V192 converter. Perhaps this is something to do with "MFi certification"?
@@Seb16291629 Apple currently sell two types Lightning to USB A-female connectors. The one referred to as CCK3 or Lightning to USB 3 Camera adaptor has a USB A-female socket and a Lightning socket - this socket is for injecting power so that the Apple device can be charged at the same time as connected to a USB device. This is actually the adaptor that Audioquest recommend for the Dragonfly range of DACs. It is a total lottery as to whether you will receive the "this device uses too much power" on connection to a particular DAC's USB input. Some people (including OP) imply that this goes away when the charger is applied to the Lightning socket on the CCK3. Personally, I haven't found this with several of my devices that report this warning. It is frustrating that this occurs on DACs especially when you don't need to transfer any power to it, only USB audio data. I will also point out that the Audioquest Dragonfly range has been especially designed such that it uses a tiny amount of power, so you will never get this error with those DACs
Newer Ipad Pro with USB-C does NOT require any adapter. You can just use a usb-c to usb-c cable (assuming your dac has the usb-c input). If your dac does not have the usb-c input then you need a usb-c to whatever adapter on the DAC side. I am using the newer ipad Pro with usb-c directly into the IFI hip dac usb-c input.
Thank you John, this is the first time I have seen anyone explain and show how to use Apple Music lossless in an audio system and not headphones. Congratulation. It could not have been clearer. It is surprising that Apple has not doe this as they would get more folk subscribing.
@Joel O I don't like Apple, I used iPads and liked them a lot but will still move to Android tablet or even Windows for more freedom, but in this case, not promoting this mess as a solution is decent move.
Every video doesn't need to be positive, and the stuff mentioned in the last video was nothing but the fair truth not held back by any bias towards an otherwise positive experience one may have with a company's products. I think the last video was spot on real, and this one was as well. Thanks for the great work.
Bravo! One additional suggestion. The Apple “Lightning to USB 3 Camera Adapter “ has a second port for power which makes it possible to have the hi-res USB connection in the video while simultaneously powering the iPad, making for a 24/7 streamer with no concerns for battery life.
The Apple camera adapter is the one recommended by Audioquest too. I tried both adapters in the past and the camera adapter sounded noticeably better. May be a better option for the best audio.
Yep. This is what I use when connecting my DAC and it works great to keep the iPad charged. Make sure to buy the Apple one though, as I have tried a couple third party “clones” and have had error messages and other problems.
As a result of this video…I finally added iPad Pro to my system…to handle streaming duties using Schiit Modi DAC. Really appreciate your content. Keep it going 🤘
Q: On a Mac, do I need to adjust the output each and every time? What if, I leave the midi setting at 192khz? What would be the impact of this setting staying like this while the audio from Apple music actually keeps changing (44.1-192khz)?
Yes, I have the same question. It would be nice if Darko can make a video to show if the numbers on the DAC display change when playing songs with different resolutions. This way we can have confirmation if the Mac is downsampling or upscaling.
I tried this with my macbook pro and Qobuz. Music playback speed gets faster. Playing 48KHz album from Qobuz with midi setting at 96KHz sounds like chipmunks.
@@PetrusEskelinen WOW....That's crazy...You'd think Apple would update the O/S to automatically choose the output based on the incoming file...I mean, if they can do that in their iPAD and iPhone, why not on a $2000 MAC?
I have asked this too, there doesn't seem to be an answer. its odd too because I can control my primary iPhone with my watch but I cannot get that situation configured for any other device to be controlled using the Apple Remote app.
As a Classical musician I'm very much loving what Apple have done re releasing it's catalogue in Lossless/Hi-Res Lossless. For headphone use I do as John has outlined here, except that I'm using a Chord Mojo rather than the Audioquest dragonfly. For HiFi use, I'm getting excellent results from my Apple TV 4K 64gb - which will output up to 24 bit/48khz depending upon the file. It's not 24 bit/192khz yet - but likely to come - but still sounds better than 16 bit/44.1 regular CD played by a good quality CD player, or the files I've ripped in ALAC to my computer HD and streamed over the LAN. Win Win basically. Very happy with Apples move on this, and in particular the HUGE discography for the true Classical music lover - nothing else compares in my experience as regards streaming services, as an overall package which includes vast content and Hi-Res sound. A definite game changer. :-)
Anybody has any suggestion to how to navigate the iPad from across the room on my sofa? Who wants to be stuck to an iPad that is stock to my hifi rack? Any solutions is appreciated.
John, I have a sneaky suspicion that the airplay 24/48 method is not streaming the lossless data, instead dropping to aac and upscaling. The reason I mention this is that on the android beta, it's definitely only streaming on the aac version via Chromecast. I also read a response from Apple that said the only approach was with an external DAC. Worth confirming. And I just now confirmed this does indeed seem to be the case. I ran a tcpdump on my Mac while streaming a Billie Eilish 24/44.1 track (My Future) and measured 37Mb data downloaded to my computer from Apple. When I played the same track in airplay mode to my Onkyo receivers Airplay renderer, I still see the 37Mb streamed in from Apple but around only 7.1Mb is then streamed between my mac and airplay renderer. That suggests an on-the-fly re-render into AAC.
This is quite the adventure. Finally (January 2024) got my USB Camera adaptor and USB enabled DAC wired up, quite excited to give this a go. Before I even got into the Hi-Res and lossless content I discovered that the user interface becomes frustratingly slow if the adaptor is plugged in. Same between my iPhone 14 and iPad Air 2 that have different iOS versions: you have to be patient and very deliberate and endure 2 to 10 second delays between poking a button and getting a response. The music plays fine and the mini-player is fairly responsive on play/pause and track skipping but typing in the search bar misses letters and doubles up on others, and the go-back arrow is particularly inert. If I unplug the adaptor the UI speed goes back to it's normal, fairly responsive state, so I think there's something weird and processor hungry going on. Injecting power through the adaptor charges the device but invokes no change in the UI lag. Re-watching the video I can see Darko being very measured in his prods at the UI, so I wonder if he suffered the same...
This actually a good thing Apple has done. As paying tidal hifi subscriber it frustrates and delights me that Apple clearly sounds better than tidal that I have been paying for for a few years. It's frustrating in that I don't see a lot of integration with Apple music in our streamers in the near future like tidal and spotify has done. Apple has their own ecosystem with their products and software and it wouldn't be cheap for companies to integrate Apple music. But I would absolutely be thrilled to prove wrong! If nothing else I hope this makes the other streaming services like tidal and spotify better and cheaper. I'm hoping to see something good from spotify hifi later this year that is equivalent to Apple. Should be interesting!
Dear John. Thank you very much for the most educational video. I don't know if someone asked this before but instead of using an Apple Lightning to USB converter, would it be possible to connect a USB-C to USB-B cable directly from the iPad to a DAC (BTW, I also have the RME). Will it still stream in full resolution or will it get downscaled. Thank you.
@KevinTan Ive had this same question. I want to use a USB-C to USB-B direct from my iPad Pro to Peachtree Day/Integrated Amp. Did you ever get an answer? Thanks
Newer Ipad Pro with USB-C does NOT require any adapter. You can just use one usb-c to usb-c cable (assuming your dac has the usb-c input). If your dac does not have the usb-c input then you need an adapter on the DAC side. I am using the newer ipad Pro with usb-c directly into the IFI hip dac usb-c input.
Thanks to your forums and blog. I run my iPhone through a lightning adapter > USB into Topping E30 DAC > into headphone Amp or Hifi system. Mainly used my E30 DAC to also make sure sample rates are what they say they are. Happiness at the end of the day. It worked.
Thanks, your first video wasn’t negative. The gotchas with AM lossless were bewildering. I’ve persisted and have an iPad Pro powered via a Magic Keyboard feeding via a USC-C dongle to my NADM10 via a Schiit Audio Eitr. My ears are very happy with the quality. I’m actually enjoying not having my phone as a remote next to me. I can now just sit down and listen rather than fiddling. Nice video!
Hi John. I didn’t think your last video was negative at all. I thought it reflected well on what all of us go through trying to connect widget A to thing-a-ma-gig B so that the sound we get it is akin to sitting in the best seat at the Berliner Philharmonie! And you did it in a very humorous manner - so much so that I replayed it for my wife, who has no interest in the tech behind the music. Thanks for your efforts in helping all of us to hear the music in the best way possible. Cheers from Pune, India.
John...when I saw the name of this video, I immediately knew it was a re-do with more helpful / less depressing insights, given the size and use of Apple Music Nation among music lovers and some audiophiles. And you delivered as advertised. Thanks so much!! Very helpful video!!! Now if only some manufacturer would bring an Apple dock (not dac) to market that connects to CD quality and possibly hi-rez and charges iPhones / iPads at the same time. There's nothing worse than reaching a dead battery in the middle of long listening sessions. I remain hopeful as Apple Music has hit a grand slam with its no up charge offering to CD quality and beyond. Tidal, Spotify, and others now have their hands full from a competitive perspective. Thanks so much!!! Kudos to you!!
Helpful. Thanks. Iw ould like to know though, the YELLOW USB cable connected from the adapter to the back of your dac is USB both ends or a USB to ANALOGUE?
Hi John you inspired me today and have ordered the components to enable me to listen to hi res music they will be here on Saturday please continue with your brilliant work I'm still learning about Hi-Fi to make my system better
John, if you already have an integrated with a DAC built in and it has a USB B input as well as analog inputs. Would it still be preferable to use a dragonfly - mini-jack to rca output cable to plug in that way or can I just use lightning to usb OR usb C to usb b and try to eliminate dingle complications. Great video, thank you sir!!
Dragonfly drains device battery, in practice if you don’t want to experience that, the dongle to use is the Apple Lightning to USB3 Camera Adapter. This allows you to charge the iPad simultaneously, for unlimited listening.
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The Audioquest website actually recommends the lightening to usb3 camera adapter over the other adapter for audio quality. Not that i can hear a difference :)
There is one nasty gotcha for the airplay route with a maximum of 48Khz: Airplay can do it, but the Apple app does not send out the high res lossless stream, but a downsampled lossy stream. It is a problem in the Apple Music app, so Apple needs to release a new version where this feature is corrected. For instance, the Tidal app does send out high res on the same phone or iPad.
@@bryangibson8479 that’s because AirPlay and AirPlay 2 top out at 16-bit/44.1 kHz (CD quality) the lightning and USB-C to 3.5mm adapter top out at 24-bit/48kHz. :) What’s weird is some folks report that streaming lossless high res Apple Music from their device and then AirPlaying it to an Apple TV, it gets down sampled to 256kbps AAC, but if the music file is stored locally on the device and AirPlayed, it maxes out at 44.1 kHz/16-bit
AirPlay from the system instead of the Apple Music app on a Mac seems to provide lossless - resampled to 16/44.1. I noted a steady stream of 160kb/s from the Mac when I use this route to my NAD M10. Not sure about airplaying from iOS. I have a feeling that Apple will fix this and this is linked to the reason that HomePods cannot do lossless yet.
@@cell1540rol To further add to the confusion, it seems AirPlay 1 and AirPlay 2 devices are doing different things. AirPlay 1 is streaming at ALAC 16/44.1 but AirPlay 2 is downsampling to AAC 256.
Best explanation and demonstration on youtube. Better than most ‘audiophile’ channels. This needed precise language and i appreciate the effort to be unambiguous with the various types of lossless files on apple music. Wish i could give more than one like.
Can recommend the Dragonfly Red or Cobalt. With the Black I don't think there is enough difference over the Lighting to 3.5 adapter. Red for electronic music, Cobalt for acustic and jazz.
@@howardskeivys4184 how do you get the digital out from the iPad/usb into the component with an internal DAC? My receiver has a great internal DAC but no USB input… Is there a way to go from usb to Optical?
Using the Bit Perfect app on iOS solves all your issues. You get around the output issues for bit perfect output over USB on any Mac. I use an old 2012 Mac Mini just for music.
Thank you for explaining and making it clear to everyone how easy it can be to enjoy Apple Music with an iOS device. Maybe you can also dig into using Apple Music with wired AirPods Max… this topic is rather unclear to most people. Keep up the awesome work.
The wired cable for airpods max is not analogue end to end from headphone amplifier to headphone speaker unfortunately. So it goes headphone jack (analogue), to cable (digital), the cable passes it to the internal DAC/amp of the AirPods max (digital), which passes it to the speakers (analogue). So it’s that bit between the cable and the internal DAC of the headphone which is the problematic part. Because it resamples and reencodes the analogue input from the headphone amplifier. This process is not lossless and is what Apple mean by “However, given the analog-to-digital conversion in the cable, the playback will not be completely lossless.”
Excellent video sir !!!! Hi from Quebec city (Canada) In your vidéo when you said: if you want 192 or higher, before you add « you can’t », my eyes start to shine, because i want full hi-res with my iphone!! And when you said « you can’t » i was like 🥺 Haha but now !!!! I know how to hear REAL hi-res! Buy a dragonfly or change my iphone hahah thank you again !!! Before i listen to your video, i never knew the difference between aac, Ldac and the others… so thanks again :) Like we said in french here: té fort ! :)
I've been running Apple Hi-Res through M1 iPad Pro through Dragonfly Cobalt and it sounds amazing, just like it would any other lossless or hi res lossless. Sounds just like Tidal lossless and above. The first week or so that Apple Music was out if it had Lossless and Apple Digital Master as well it would should pretty bad on anything but Apple headphones. But, in the last few days Apple is using its external connection detection and only delivers the version with lossless and Hi-Res Lossless and none of the garbage Apple Digital Master with it, so it sounds stellar.
@@ThomasVanderWal Apple Digital Master is about using mastering techniques that allows the file to survive the lossy process of AAC compression better than CD masters/CD rips did. It is a set of standards for how the record label should deliver files to Apple. A key component of this is to make sure that there is sufficient headroom in the levels, such that there is no clipping. Whether Apple send you a lossless version of that file, or an AAC version, it is still an Apple Digital Master. Out of interest, I have the 2011 remaster of Queen's Greatest Hits I and II. This is an Apple Digital Master. Despite the fact these are lossy files, to my ears they sound significantly better than lossless rips of the 1990s CDs. IMHO, mastering is far more important than whether or not a file is lossy.
@@ThomasVanderWal I have tried the same setup but found the sound to be quite Lean and lacking grunt. This is my experience in comparison to using the mac mini as a source, output via usb to Dac. It may not have automatic sample rate switching but overall It sounded so much better.
Quite a bit. But the Cobalt is in my opinion overpriced for how it performs. At half that price you can get better USB Dongle DACs (as also explained by John in other videos)
Yes. I’m no audiophile but owned a dragonfly red hence know a bit about them. To begin with they have different chips and only red and cobalt supports MQA (if you use tidal). But neither one supports upto 24/192 if I’m not mistaken. Mr. Darko have a very informative video comparing them please watch that.
The Black puts out about half the voltage of the Red and Cobalt so would require more gain and maybe introduces a little more noise because of that....Many reviewers say the Red is "lively" sounding, while the Cobalt is more reserved, but "better" sounding with a little more detail, whatever that means in a subjective way. If using portable, the Cobalt is slightly smaller than the Red.
The best thing about a setup like this is if you get a fairly high spec iPad, it has plenty of storage to download heaps of songs in hires. Using the camera adapter, you can keep in constantly on charge as part of a set up if you want. Not sure why but I find the quality of the down loaded files better than when you stream them. Possibly because of my crappy internet
Great video. I’ve recently just discovered that you can create a hearing audiogram with the mimi hearing app and then apply it as a kind of audiogram eq setting (through accessibility -> audio / visual -> Headphone Accommodations) to select earphones. It’s sort of like Dirac for your ears. I wonder what you’d make of it. My hearing isn’t great, but others may possibly benefit from it.
My take on Apple Music in the beginning was a bit harsh, then i saw your first video and totally agreed. After a couple of weeks I compared it to the TIDAL MQA Master and simply I used my vintage stereo & NS 1000 Yamaha Speakers but with a Ztella Zorloo so no high end extreme DAC stuff, rather ordinary and cheap. First of all I am supper happy that more people have the opportunity to move away from the horrible mp3 quality. Now price alone (TIDAL is double than Apple Music) I find Apple's Hi-Res sound "quieter" and softer. Still though, Apple has a long way to (there are plenty decoding bugs here and there). The first time I've hear MQA audio, I was truly impressed and with the addition of a portable DAC I could have such quality on the go. Putting those two side by side I feel that Apple's Hi Res is better. I am in favour of the round sound on the edges rather than the noisy MQA - it's louder but it doesn't mean it's better. I tested on the following tracks: Love-Alone Again or / REM-The Sidewinder Sleeps tonight / Ramones-Sheena is a Punk Rocker / The Beatles - Here Comes The Sun / RHCP- Snow (Hey Oh)/ Iggy Pop - The Passenger. Thank you.
I've realized for some time that using my iPad was the better way to get Audio (Hi Res or Hi Fi). Using the Mac OS was not as clean. Having used Tidal and Qobuz with the same DAC (SMSL m500) on Mac OS, I would run into audio switching issues. And having the iPad just do all my Audio streaming made more sense. I could free my laptop for other work, while my pad would handle all my streaming apps and audio "better" via a USB-C to USB-A cable (no adapters) strait to my DAC, and from there to my powered Klipsch "the sixes" speakers. I could then turn off/on my bluetooth adapter in iOS when I didn't need it (my airpods autoswitch and that can cause issues). Have a nice touch screen (and the keyboard too) for moving about on the Pad. I'm assuming that Apple will fix MacOS to better handle this. BUT, it also seems to me that the best Mac for this task is really the mini. Something you can place in your rack or "TV" stand area and connect to a DAC and just leave it alone. Maybe connect it to your TV (HDMI) and your set. BUT, again most folks such as yourself have ROON or other audio systems setups that better integrate things so you don't need to have a full on computer. Or at least, not have it integrated with the rest of your gear (wifi and or ethernet accessible from anywhere in the house). I'm hoping Apple allows better integrations with these systems. Or at least create iMusic Connect or something. So we can have it all. I'm fairly sure they will, otherwise why bother giving Hi-Res to the masses. They could have stopped at CD quality and been done with it. It may have to do with the fact that MacOS isn't ready with audio switching, and that they didn't want to give it away before announcing it. Also, they don't have proper DAC's in their computers and mobile devices. So I expect they are testing the waters first, see how many people are doing the Hi-Res thing before committing to at least a basic quality DAC across the board in everything they make.
The mini is the way to go. The trouble I found with Roon endpoints is the Roon software is continually being updated. I've had so many issues over 2 years where an update leaves you without an endpoint or random dropouts and restarts. You spend more time being tech support than enjoying music! Switched to a mini and this has been a 10x better experience and rock solid without any issues.
John, thanks so much for this video. Made a world of difference for me. I have a pair of KEF LS50W (version 1) and trying to stream Tidal via the KEF control app was always hit and miss. The wifi connection would drop or songs would get stuck trying to load on the phone and just never play. I also have Apple Music for my whole family. Now I simply hook up the iPhone directly via USB to the KEF speakers and via, hi-res music that is gapless. Always works now. Thank you
Question: so if I’m using a Mac Mini as my music source what is the best midi setting to use for all sample rates? I notice the Dac decodes at whatever the midi is set at, not what the source material is.
Very useful video, John. I just wonder if there's any setting that needs to be done on the iPhone (which I plan to use as the streaming device) in order for the music to be fed to the external DAC as opposed to iPhone's tiny speakers?
Any ideas on what’s causing some tracks to freeze dead on 15 seconds in?, since using lossless. Is it related to when using 4g ? Seems ok on WiFi at home
Darko - I was pretty critical of the last video on this subject. This one was well done and shows the options while still calling out the limitations. Great follow up. I’m subscribing.
Doing this has led to me experimenting with an iPad as a Roon endpoint. Quite impressed with the results. Wouldn’t be the streamer of choice, but for a flexible other Zone endpoint it works well. Just have to have the Roon app active.
I'll tell you my story which strongly confirms what you have very well explained in your video... I landed to liquid music a couple of years ago when I finally bought a decent DAC. I started streaming music from my mid 2010 Macbook Pro (updated and dedicated), but I soon realized that my CD's ripped into the Itunes library were all compressed to AAC... And that all the Apple music catalogue was compressed as well. So I moved to Qobuz: decent app for streaming hi-res, but no friendly features like Tidal Connect and Spotify Connect and, worst of all, after a while, I realized that a lot of titles among my favorites were not in the Qobuz catalogue. Then Apple released its hi-resolution service: "Cool! - I said - since the Apple catalogue is where I will finally find all I like".... But I soon realized that Apple supplies hi res music via Apple Music only and NOT via Itunes... My Macbook Pro proved too old to support the latest OSX with Apple Music...Dam! So my old Mac, which I designated for music only, had to be substituted by my all purpose Macbook Pro class 2016 (Monterey updated and Apple Music compliant)... BUT, as you mentioned, I discovered that there is no way to make the USB output match the resolution that Apple Music is actually playing... Oh, yes, there are a couple of third party apps that should automatically set the USB output to the right resolution, but since they are not native within Apple Music, they click and pop when the resolution changes from a song to another. Not to mention that all the Macbook Pros have a quiet, but present, fan noise starting from time to time. So finally I took my 5 yo Ipad, which I had actually forgotten in a drawer, and I did exactly what you reported in the video... But, I tell you what: the Apple Lightning to USB OTG cable is flimsy and shamefully expensive for its value, nor Apple Music neither Ipad can be remotely controlled by another device (again, all my admiration to the Spotify connect solution). And you know what I learnt? 1) Hi resolution streaming is definitely not for dummies... 2) Why so many people is getting back to vinils 3) Why Tidal is more expensive than the other music streaming providers. 4) Why Spotify is so popular. Thanks for sharing and explaining so well the way you do it! Ciao from Rome
Hi John, if I plug my iphone/ipad with lightening to my KEF LS Wireless via USB then that should also output Hi-Res ? As it will use the DAC from my KEF. Am I assuming right ?
I worked in a recording studio in LA as an assistant engineer. Everything was exported to CD quality 16bit 44.1K in the end anything above that is marginal improvement. Yes it’s nice to hear the mix from a console in hi-rez but I still listen to everything at CD quality.
This was a fantastic follow up to your first Hi-Res Apple Music video. And, yes. That rant was very warranted. I love the fact you brought a solution to the table. For most people, CD quality will be enough. Those those that want to go the extra mile for the 192, it's good know we can pull that resolution out of the iPad with minimal effort.
Unfortunately, as another commenter has mentioned, using the Apple Music client to stream up to 24bit/48kHz audio from Apple Music servers over AirPlay to compatible speakers will result the Apple Music client streaming 256k AAC stream to those compatible speakers. You may get 24/48 across if you download the ALAC files, then AirPlay them. There is a rather long thread on Naim Audio Community’s Streaming Audio forum about it.
I have moved to Apple Music from TIDAL and listen on the KEF LS50 Wireless II speakers that are KEF's latest iteration of the KEF LS50 active speakers. I decided recently and without seeing your post to switch back to TIDAL. I posted above, after switching back to TIDAL and have now just read your post. There is a harshness at the top end of the frequency spectrum when listening to Apple Music. The KEF's are a very revealing speaker. The problem is quite noticeable. Now I understand what is going on. Very disappointing. Thank you so much for your comment.
Won't that require Apple opening up their ecosystem for AM to work? If, so I can't see that happening as they are trying to sell more and more of their hardware products. I'd think this would lessen that. But, like you, I'd love AM on all third party hardware
One thing I noticed is that if you are using an iPhone 12 Pro Max as I was and your DAC is a Cambridge Audio DAC magic is that you need the USB C camera adapter with the lightening port and have power going to it, otherwise you get a message saying that the device needs too much power and it won’t work.
Finally! Now, can you also suggest the best way to get the full lossless res over wifi? So no AirPlay, so then what? Could it be a software restriction at present moment?
If you use the Apple System Audio menu to activate AirPlay and not the Apple Menu audio selector you’ll get lossless - resampled to 16/44.1 via AirPlay. Not sure about from iOS. It’s says it is lossless but I don’t think it is.
Thank you so much for this video. I just signed up for Apple Music for lossless and high res streaming and was so confused on what I needed to unlock high res. Confirmed that I need the lightning to USB adapter and an external DAC to unlock it. I'm currently using Airplay 2 to Airport Express 2 which I know doesn't support high res.
Thanks for the great video. Unless they've changed it in a recent update, unfortunately iOS USB C is limited to 48kHz output. Using the adapter as you've shown works great for my old iPad and iPhone 7 using lightening output......but on my new iPad Air with USB C its limited to 48kHz. No 96 and no 192. I assume Apple will update this at some point otherwise what's the point of hires when it can't be output as such?
another option that I've been using is with a lighting to HDMI adapter with my iPhone or iPad or HDMI straight out on my MacBook Pro, into the HDMI port and into the DAC on my Marantz receiver.
I find it hard to get excited that Apple and their ilk now offer "CD quality" audio when "CD quality" technology will turn 40 next year. CD quality has been available for years from CD's, but everyone has been accepting poor quality streams from the likes of Apple and Spotify. Anyone under about 20 who has only ever streamed don't know what they've been missing out on so far as sound quality (damn I sound old). Whilst I do stream, it is just easier (when at home) to pop in a CD, press play and sit back and relax, knowing that I will hear excellent quality without having to delve in to settings in an app. You can buy 5 second-hand cd's off Ebay each month for the price of a monthly subscription to one of these services. And then the music belongs to you. Forever.
Spotify have bad masters, but apple music with apple digital master is better i think, now i re discovered cd abd they sounds great for home! To move i have a simple mp3 320 with and bt dac like fiio btr3
I think the bottom line is that convince will trump quality, unless the bluetooth protocol can somehow transmit more data/in true hi-res it will be hard to get a large chunk of people listening to true hi-res audio
Well done. I used an iPad Air 4 with USB-C multi adapter to a USB-B to A Audioquest cable into the USB Computer Input on a Cambridge Audio CXN v1 and voila. Hi Res lossless from Apple Music. Thank you for demystifying Apple Lossless!
Superb explanation. Love the attitude in solving the problem you pointed out to in the previous video. Also you jus stopped me from buying what I thought was a high res Bluetooth adapter. So thanks!
Nice one bro. Great follow up video. I didnt think Gotcha was negative at all. It was really humorous & quite informative. I sent Gotcha to my son who has Apple coming out the wazoo & Dongle tails hanging out of almost every pocket. Although he found Gotcha funny, he was not very happy about the Road-Block situation in regards to Hi-Res Output. I sent him this new link & now he is a Very Very Happy Boy. Thank you.
Yes, that‘s the way to go. Got my iPad connected to the DAC. Spectacular quality on Apple Music. Way better than Tidal. Now Apple needs to integrate some remote functionality, so I can control my iPad‘s playback from the iPhone.
I’ve always used my ipad with a usb cable into the front of my marantz 8008cd CD player USB port and select usb input. Then optical into my amp, I can slo use my phone as a remote so get a display on my ipad, and the laziness of sitting in my chair switching tracks etc. I have only recently bought a DAT player more out of nostalgia, and thought if I stream into it digital from tidal, apple Spotify etc “I know I can record some songs onto a DAT and play them off line’ but nopey no…….I now know that the music is overlaid with a blocker that brings up a “prohibited’ message on my DAT screen, but analogue input into the DAT is fine. But the quality is so good I’m happy to record analogue input. Thought I would share that with you.
I feel like the dragonfly black is losing its statement as the price champ for portables, the Zorloo Ztella is great for this and doesn't require a dongle as you can buy a usb-C to lightning adaptor from them. Or on an Android phone the helm bolt works well at the price, but if you can go a little higher the ifi hip dac is honestly up there with the dragonfly red for me sound wise
Nice and well explained. Thank you. The only downside is apple music app is the worst of all the apps for music streaming, it crashes, pauses, takes ages to load and the interface is very uggly. If it wasn't for the ALAC Hi-Res Losless will be Dissapointed in every single way.
I think, paradoxically, it's more complicated because it's simpler! What I mean is that we're talking about different target audiences. Apple Music doesn't actually give you any playback options other than AAC, lossless, or hi-res lossless-no "only use this output device" option, exclusive mode, no integer mode, no "lock the device volume," nothing that's truly targeted at audiophiles. I think Apple is doing lossless music mostly to check off a box when they're compared to other services, since everyone else either already does it or has announced they're going to.
Tidal has Tidal Connect. Apple has Airplay (inferior). Tidal and Qobuz can be incapsulated in Roon for max performance. Apple can't. It's the different between "specialist" and "generalist": most people don't even care wether it's an MP3 or lossless. They will just keep playing music the way the used to be before this "high-res Apple revolution".
@@chipotlecoyote Agree its very simple if you either a) have the most of the hardware/software or b) simple needs. What could be simpler than streaming Lossless content from a catalogue of 70 million (eventually) from your phone to your Amp or Streamer many of which on the market today have Airplay onboard. It's only gets complicated if you insist on listening to HiRes which as John keeps telling us over and over again is a red herring as there simply isn't much Hi Res content anyway and its debatable how much difference there is over Redbook anyway.
In the video at approximately 1:58 John says that you can get 24/48khz via Airplay . Is there anywhere this is published by Apple, most sources I've been able to find claim that Airplay downsamples to 16 bit/44.1 khz.
I would love your take on the quality of the music now that apple is upgrading their catalog, please do a video on that. Also, can you do a review on the spacial audio, I know it’s gimmicky but I would still get a kick out of you reviewing it
Thank you John for providing these options. Following our last discussion I have now taken out the Apple trial and would like to add a couple of additional options: 1) Apple desktop - in my case MacMini with a Denafrips DAC connected via USB. For remote management I use VNC viewer on my iPad to control the MacMini’s screen and keyboard. 2) The alternative would be to use a screen with the Mac and a wireless keyboard. I don’t need to change the sound settings after choosing lossless and 196kHz between tracks - DAC shows hires. I hope that helps others too for obtaining high quality playback.
Thank you! Superb and simple. I had been futzing around with AppleTV and the iMac but had not tried the iPad yet. Indeed, by far the simplest way to enjoy lossless.
At least it seems to get easier. I do not live in Apple Universe but for me there is no tablet as good as the iPad. So after a few years I purchased a new iPad Air. And was a little bit surprised because the redirection over the Camera adapter is not longer needed. Plugged a FiiO KA1 dongle in the iPads USB-C and got High Resolution and even MQA out of Qobuz, Tidal, Amazon MHD and even Apple Music Lossless. Maybe John can have another look on it.
@@denisruskin348 I got Tidal to use on my Hi Res player. Tidal updated there software! It a pain to use with a phone (battery, camera attachment needed) Vs Bluetooth I have a fiio bt5 the different is noticeable so is the convenience I expect apple has something in mind for Bluetooth coming up next.
I thought that I would share a solution that I encountered when trying to hookup my iPhone 12 ProMax and run Apple Music through my Auralic Altair G1 DAC using the Lightning to USB adapter you recommended. My iPhone said it did not have enough power to run the Auralic. The solution was to use an Apple Lightning to USB camera with charging port. This allows one to charge their iPhone while using the USB hub. I noticed that you ran your iPad into an RME DAC and maybe it has enough output compared to an iPhone. I have an RME DAC as well and will try using my iPhone to see which adapter works.
*PLEASE READ CAREFULLY* Please be a decent human being and keep your sexist/racist thoughts and conspiracy theories to yourself. External links are also a no-no. Comments that *advance* the conversation are most welcome.
Your video is actually one of the best that actually explains what people need to know to get high res lossless and clearly explains the equipment needed and what their limitations are if you have lesser hardware available. Great job!
Thank you, I was foolishly not checking the fact that I was using that basic 3.5mm to lightning adapter, which was keeping me from accessing 24/192. I just picked up the needed USB to lightning adapter, and now all is well in the 24/192 world. Thanks again, brother!
Some external DACs will not work in the configuration shown here because the power draw from iPad will be too high and the iPad will not output any signal. In that case, a power injection is required, i.e. a different lightning to USB adapter will do the trick, the one that accepts a power in from iPad charger.
Thank you for advancing the conversation. 👏🏻
In my experience, injecting power using CCK 3 isn't a guaranteed solution. Certainly with an older iPad mini with lightning, once I have the "this device uses too much power", nothing will persuade it otherwise. If I recall correctly, incompatible devices are the USB input on the Auralic Altair G1 and the Musical Fidelity V192 converter. Perhaps this is something to do with "MFi certification"?
What is power injection ?
@@Seb16291629 It's fancy word for a power cable
@@Seb16291629 Apple currently sell two types Lightning to USB A-female connectors. The one referred to as CCK3 or Lightning to USB 3 Camera adaptor has a USB A-female socket and a Lightning socket - this socket is for injecting power so that the Apple device can be charged at the same time as connected to a USB device. This is actually the adaptor that Audioquest recommend for the Dragonfly range of DACs. It is a total lottery as to whether you will receive the "this device uses too much power" on connection to a particular DAC's USB input. Some people (including OP) imply that this goes away when the charger is applied to the Lightning socket on the CCK3. Personally, I haven't found this with several of my devices that report this warning. It is frustrating that this occurs on DACs especially when you don't need to transfer any power to it, only USB audio data.
I will also point out that the Audioquest Dragonfly range has been especially designed such that it uses a tiny amount of power, so you will never get this error with those DACs
Newer Ipad Pro with USB-C does NOT require any adapter. You can just use a usb-c to usb-c cable (assuming your dac has the usb-c input). If your dac does not have the usb-c input then you need a usb-c to whatever adapter on the DAC side. I am using the newer ipad Pro with usb-c directly into the IFI hip dac usb-c input.
Thank you John, this is the first time I have seen anyone explain and show how to use Apple Music lossless in an audio system and not headphones. Congratulation. It could not have been clearer. It is surprising that Apple has not doe this as they would get more folk subscribing.
Apple don't want to show this crazy nonsense setup. It goes against their design philosophy
@@joaoroman9583
Because it's kind of a mess.
Most people listen to shit and believe me if they don't care about they listen they couldn't care less about the compression.
@Joel O
I don't like Apple, I used iPads and liked them a lot but will still move to Android tablet or even Windows for more freedom,
but in this case, not promoting this mess as a solution is decent move.
Every video doesn't need to be positive, and the stuff mentioned in the last video was nothing but the fair truth not held back by any bias towards an otherwise positive experience one may have with a company's products. I think the last video was spot on real, and this one was as well. Thanks for the great work.
Bravo! One additional suggestion. The Apple “Lightning to USB 3 Camera Adapter “ has a second port for power which makes it possible to have the hi-res USB connection in the video while simultaneously powering the iPad, making for a 24/7 streamer with no concerns for battery life.
The Apple camera adapter is the one recommended by Audioquest too. I tried both adapters in the past and the camera adapter sounded noticeably better. May be a better option for the best audio.
I was wondering about charging an iOS device thanks for the info
this is what i use.
Yep. This is what I use when connecting my DAC and it works great to keep the iPad charged. Make sure to buy the Apple one though, as I have tried a couple third party “clones” and have had error messages and other problems.
I’ll need to look for a USB 3 version. That does sound like a perfect solution for a permanent installation.
There is something comforting about the way you speak. It is truly the real lossless spirit on youtube. Pure.
As a result of this video…I finally added iPad Pro to my system…to handle streaming duties using Schiit Modi DAC. Really appreciate your content. Keep it going 🤘
Q: On a Mac, do I need to adjust the output each and every time? What if, I leave the midi setting at 192khz? What would be the impact of this setting staying like this while the audio from Apple music actually keeps changing (44.1-192khz)?
Yes, I have the same question. It would be nice if Darko can make a video to show if the numbers on the DAC display change when playing songs with different resolutions. This way we can have confirmation if the Mac is downsampling or upscaling.
I tried this with my macbook pro and Qobuz. Music playback speed gets faster. Playing 48KHz album from Qobuz with midi setting at 96KHz sounds like chipmunks.
Just install Bitperfect for iTunes, it will be automatically done.
@@PetrusEskelinen WOW....That's crazy...You'd think Apple would update the O/S to automatically choose the output based on the incoming file...I mean, if they can do that in their iPAD and iPhone, why not on a $2000 MAC?
Great video, now how can I control the iPad wirelessly from the couch?
I have asked this too, there doesn't seem to be an answer. its odd too because I can control my primary iPhone with my watch but I cannot get that situation configured for any other device to be controlled using the Apple Remote app.
As a Classical musician I'm very much loving what Apple have done re releasing it's catalogue in Lossless/Hi-Res Lossless. For headphone use I do as John has outlined here, except that I'm using a Chord Mojo rather than the Audioquest dragonfly.
For HiFi use, I'm getting excellent results from my Apple TV 4K 64gb - which will output up to 24 bit/48khz depending upon the file. It's not 24 bit/192khz yet - but likely to come - but still sounds better than 16 bit/44.1 regular CD played by a good quality CD player, or the files I've ripped in ALAC to my computer HD and streamed over the LAN. Win Win basically.
Very happy with Apples move on this, and in particular the HUGE discography for the true Classical music lover - nothing else compares in my experience as regards streaming services, as an overall package which includes vast content and Hi-Res sound. A definite game changer. :-)
And now with the Apple Music Classical, even better right?
Anybody has any suggestion to how to navigate the iPad from across the room on my sofa?
Who wants to be stuck to an iPad that is stock to my hifi rack?
Any solutions is appreciated.
@@nood5712Apple mouse works for me
This was the best video I've seen on how to properly take advantage of Lossless!
Yes! The iPad is the best streamer/interface combo for the price, and not just for Apple Music. Tidal sounds great on the set-up you showed.
@@razisn first world problems… 🙄
@@razisn just wait for Spotify hifi
@@razisn apple watch remote controls it pretty well.
There are several Lightning to USB-C, OTG adapters out there now, that are much smaller than the bulky camera adapter BTW.
John, I have a sneaky suspicion that the airplay 24/48 method is not streaming the lossless data, instead dropping to aac and upscaling. The reason I mention this is that on the android beta, it's definitely only streaming on the aac version via Chromecast. I also read a response from Apple that said the only approach was with an external DAC. Worth confirming.
And I just now confirmed this does indeed seem to be the case. I ran a tcpdump on my Mac while streaming a Billie Eilish 24/44.1 track (My Future) and measured 37Mb data downloaded to my computer from Apple. When I played the same track in airplay mode to my Onkyo receivers Airplay renderer, I still see the 37Mb streamed in from Apple but around only 7.1Mb is then streamed between my mac and airplay renderer. That suggests an on-the-fly re-render into AAC.
@Lewis Menzies The beta (I believe 3.6) supports lossless. I ended up downloading from apk mirror. Fully supports lossless on Android.
This is quite the adventure. Finally (January 2024) got my USB Camera adaptor and USB enabled DAC wired up, quite excited to give this a go. Before I even got into the Hi-Res and lossless content I discovered that the user interface becomes frustratingly slow if the adaptor is plugged in. Same between my iPhone 14 and iPad Air 2 that have different iOS versions: you have to be patient and very deliberate and endure 2 to 10 second delays between poking a button and getting a response. The music plays fine and the mini-player is fairly responsive on play/pause and track skipping but typing in the search bar misses letters and doubles up on others, and the go-back arrow is particularly inert. If I unplug the adaptor the UI speed goes back to it's normal, fairly responsive state, so I think there's something weird and processor hungry going on. Injecting power through the adaptor charges the device but invokes no change in the UI lag. Re-watching the video I can see Darko being very measured in his prods at the UI, so I wonder if he suffered the same...
This actually a good thing Apple has done. As paying tidal hifi subscriber it frustrates and delights me that Apple clearly sounds better than tidal that I have been paying for for a few years. It's frustrating in that I don't see a lot of integration with Apple music in our streamers in the near future like tidal and spotify has done. Apple has their own ecosystem with their products and software and it wouldn't be cheap for companies to integrate Apple music. But I would absolutely be thrilled to prove wrong! If nothing else I hope this makes the other streaming services like tidal and spotify better and cheaper. I'm hoping to see something good from spotify hifi later this year that is equivalent to Apple. Should be interesting!
Tidal sounds terrible to me compared to apple music.
Spotify hi-fi what?
@@vitortavares5759a new program that will be added to spotify soon, we all hope
Thanks for this! Been using the Fiio BTR5 & FH3 w/ hi res lossless and it sounds amazing. 😭
Wired of course...
Dear John. Thank you very much for the most educational video. I don't know if someone asked this before but instead of using an Apple Lightning to USB converter, would it be possible to connect a USB-C to USB-B cable directly from the iPad to a DAC (BTW, I also have the RME). Will it still stream in full resolution or will it get downscaled. Thank you.
@KevinTan Ive had this same question. I want to use a USB-C to USB-B direct from my iPad Pro to Peachtree Day/Integrated Amp. Did you ever get an answer? Thanks
Newer Ipad Pro with USB-C does NOT require any adapter. You can just use one usb-c to usb-c cable (assuming your dac has the usb-c input). If your dac does not have the usb-c input then you need an adapter on the DAC side. I am using the newer ipad Pro with usb-c directly into the IFI hip dac usb-c input.
Thanks to your forums and blog. I run my iPhone through a lightning adapter > USB into Topping E30 DAC > into headphone Amp or Hifi system. Mainly used my E30 DAC to also make sure sample rates are what they say they are. Happiness at the end of the day. It worked.
Thanks, your first video wasn’t negative. The gotchas with AM lossless were bewildering. I’ve persisted and have an iPad Pro powered via a Magic Keyboard feeding via a USC-C dongle to my NADM10 via a Schiit Audio Eitr. My ears are very happy with the quality. I’m actually enjoying not having my phone as a remote next to me. I can now just sit down and listen rather than fiddling. Nice video!
Hi John. I didn’t think your last video was negative at all. I thought it reflected well on what all of us go through trying to connect widget A to thing-a-ma-gig B so that the sound we get it is akin to sitting in the best seat at the Berliner Philharmonie! And you did it in a very humorous manner - so much so that I replayed it for my wife, who has no interest in the tech behind the music.
Thanks for your efforts in helping all of us to hear the music in the best way possible. Cheers from Pune, India.
From the corporation that essentially pushed the market to go wireless and drop the headphone jack is now making us go back to wired 😂
Irony is the word I was looking for... ;-)
Lol😂
There’s a sucker born every minute
John...when I saw the name of this video, I immediately knew it was a re-do with more helpful / less depressing insights, given the size and use of Apple Music Nation among music lovers and some audiophiles.
And you delivered as advertised. Thanks so much!! Very helpful video!!!
Now if only some manufacturer would bring an Apple dock (not dac) to market that connects to CD quality and possibly hi-rez and charges iPhones / iPads at the same time. There's nothing worse than reaching a dead battery in the middle of long listening sessions. I remain hopeful as Apple Music has hit a grand slam with its no up charge offering to CD quality and beyond. Tidal, Spotify, and others now have their hands full from a competitive perspective.
Thanks so much!!! Kudos to you!!
Helpful. Thanks. Iw ould like to know though, the YELLOW USB cable connected from the adapter to the back of your dac is USB both ends or a USB to ANALOGUE?
same Q...
Hi John you inspired me today and have ordered the components to enable me to listen to hi res music they will be here on Saturday please continue with your brilliant work I'm still learning about Hi-Fi to make my system better
John, if you already have an integrated with a DAC built in and it has a USB B input as well as analog inputs. Would it still be preferable to use a dragonfly - mini-jack to rca output cable to plug in that way or can I just use lightning to usb OR usb C to usb b and try to eliminate dingle complications. Great video, thank you sir!!
I am just wondering the same thing, have you gotten any answer to that?
This was perfect. It finally answered all my questions on this topic after hours of research!
Dragonfly drains device battery, in practice if you don’t want to experience that, the dongle to use is the Apple Lightning to USB3 Camera Adapter. This allows you to charge the iPad simultaneously, for unlimited listening.
The Audioquest website actually recommends the lightening to usb3 camera adapter over the other adapter for audio quality. Not that i can hear a difference :)
This video is asesome!!!!... thank you for showing us something that many YTrs don't even take into consideration!...
There is one nasty gotcha for the airplay route with a maximum of 48Khz: Airplay can do it, but the Apple app does not send out the high res lossless stream, but a downsampled lossy stream. It is a problem in the Apple Music app, so Apple needs to release a new version where this feature is corrected. For instance, the Tidal app does send out high res on the same phone or iPad.
This what I experienced. Tried streaming a 24/48 track via Airplay (from iPhone to a Bluesound Node 2i) -- my DAC read it as 16/44.1.
doesn't AirPlay resamples everything to 44.1kHz/16bit?
@@bryangibson8479 that’s because AirPlay and AirPlay 2 top out at 16-bit/44.1 kHz (CD quality) the lightning and USB-C to 3.5mm adapter top out at 24-bit/48kHz. :) What’s weird is some folks report that streaming lossless high res Apple Music from their device and then AirPlaying it to an Apple TV, it gets down sampled to 256kbps AAC, but if the music file is stored locally on the device and AirPlayed, it maxes out at 44.1 kHz/16-bit
AirPlay from the system instead of the Apple Music app on a Mac seems to provide lossless - resampled to 16/44.1. I noted a steady stream of 160kb/s from the Mac when I use this route to my NAD M10. Not sure about airplaying from iOS. I have a feeling that Apple will fix this and this is linked to the reason that HomePods cannot do lossless yet.
@@cell1540rol To further add to the confusion, it seems AirPlay 1 and AirPlay 2 devices are doing different things. AirPlay 1 is streaming at ALAC 16/44.1 but AirPlay 2 is downsampling to AAC 256.
Best explanation and demonstration on youtube. Better than most ‘audiophile’ channels. This needed precise language and i appreciate the effort to be unambiguous with the various types of lossless files on apple music. Wish i could give more than one like.
Thanks John. Now I just need to buy an external DAC.
Can recommend the Dragonfly Red or Cobalt. With the Black I don't think there is enough difference over the Lighting to 3.5 adapter. Red for electronic music, Cobalt for acustic and jazz.
Alo audio pilot
That’s my choice for iphone/ipad/mbp
Small
Usb-c to lightning dongle out of box
24/192
Dragonfly have only 24/96
@@howardskeivys4184 how do you get the digital out from the iPad/usb into the component with an internal DAC? My receiver has a great internal DAC but no USB input… Is there a way to go from usb to Optical?
@@b0risych29 out of stock currently but thanks for suggesting this dac. Looks nice.
Using the Bit Perfect app on iOS solves all your issues. You get around the output issues for bit perfect output over USB on any Mac. I use an old 2012 Mac Mini just for music.
Thank you for explaining and making it clear to everyone how easy it can be to enjoy Apple Music with an iOS device. Maybe you can also dig into using Apple Music with wired AirPods Max… this topic is rather unclear to most people. Keep up the awesome work.
The wired cable for airpods max is not analogue end to end from headphone amplifier to headphone speaker unfortunately.
So it goes headphone jack (analogue), to cable (digital), the cable passes it to the internal DAC/amp of the AirPods max (digital), which passes it to the speakers (analogue).
So it’s that bit between the cable and the internal DAC of the headphone which is the problematic part. Because it resamples and reencodes the analogue input from the headphone amplifier. This process is not lossless and is what Apple mean by “However, given the analog-to-digital conversion in the cable, the playback will not be completely lossless.”
Excellent video sir !!!! Hi from Quebec city (Canada)
In your vidéo when you said: if you want 192 or higher, before you add « you can’t », my eyes start to shine, because i want full hi-res with my iphone!! And when you said « you can’t » i was like 🥺
Haha but now !!!! I know how to hear REAL hi-res! Buy a dragonfly or change my iphone hahah thank you again !!! Before i listen to your video, i never knew the difference between aac, Ldac and the others… so thanks again :)
Like we said in french here: té fort ! :)
Hey John - So how does Apple hi res sound via the ipad though your DAC?
I've been running Apple Hi-Res through M1 iPad Pro through Dragonfly Cobalt and it sounds amazing, just like it would any other lossless or hi res lossless. Sounds just like Tidal lossless and above.
The first week or so that Apple Music was out if it had Lossless and Apple Digital Master as well it would should pretty bad on anything but Apple headphones. But, in the last few days Apple is using its external connection detection and only delivers the version with lossless and Hi-Res Lossless and none of the garbage Apple Digital Master with it, so it sounds stellar.
On my system, with my ears it sounds excellent. Comparable to Roon with Qobuz.
@@ThomasVanderWal Apple Digital Master is about using mastering techniques that allows the file to survive the lossy process of AAC compression better than CD masters/CD rips did. It is a set of standards for how the record label should deliver files to Apple. A key component of this is to make sure that there is sufficient headroom in the levels, such that there is no clipping. Whether Apple send you a lossless version of that file, or an AAC version, it is still an Apple Digital Master.
Out of interest, I have the 2011 remaster of Queen's Greatest Hits I and II. This is an Apple Digital Master. Despite the fact these are lossy files, to my ears they sound significantly better than lossless rips of the 1990s CDs. IMHO, mastering is far more important than whether or not a file is lossy.
Better than tidal
@@ThomasVanderWal
I have tried the same setup but found the sound to be quite Lean and lacking grunt. This is my experience in comparison to using the mac mini as a source, output via usb to Dac. It may not have automatic sample rate switching but overall It sounded so much better.
Now THIS was way better! LOVE IT! thanks for letting us know deets!
Is there much difference between the Dragonfly Black, Red and Cobalt.
I'd be interested too. I'm currently debating whether to buy the Red or the Cobalt.
Red is good .Cobalt is much closer to Chord Mojo maybe 4 5ths
Quite a bit. But the Cobalt is in my opinion overpriced for how it performs. At half that price you can get better USB Dongle DACs (as also explained by John in other videos)
Yes. I’m no audiophile but owned a dragonfly red hence know a bit about them. To begin with they have different chips and only red and cobalt supports MQA (if you use tidal). But neither one supports upto 24/192 if I’m not mistaken. Mr. Darko have a very informative video comparing them please watch that.
The Black puts out about half the voltage of the Red and Cobalt so would require more gain and maybe introduces a little more noise because of that....Many reviewers say the Red is "lively" sounding, while the Cobalt is more reserved, but "better" sounding with a little more detail, whatever that means in a subjective way. If using portable, the Cobalt is slightly smaller than the Red.
Very helpful thanks. Could you recommend a DAC that’s cheaper. Or maybe suggest what exactly to look for while buying one.
How about the iPad to a amp with built in dac?
What do I need?
I want to know too
Check the vid from 4.30. Connect a usb cable to the dongle from the ipad, then connect that to your amp (assuming it has usb input!)
The best thing about a setup like this is if you get a fairly high spec iPad, it has plenty of storage to download heaps of songs in hires. Using the camera adapter, you can keep in constantly on charge as part of a set up if you want.
Not sure why but I find the quality of the down loaded files better than when you stream them. Possibly because of my crappy internet
Great video. I’ve recently just discovered that you can create a hearing audiogram with the mimi hearing app and then apply it as a kind of audiogram eq setting (through accessibility -> audio / visual -> Headphone Accommodations) to select earphones. It’s sort of like Dirac for your ears. I wonder what you’d make of it. My hearing isn’t great, but others may possibly benefit from it.
My take on
Apple Music in the beginning was a bit harsh, then i saw your first video and totally agreed. After a couple of weeks I compared it to the TIDAL MQA Master and simply I used my vintage stereo & NS 1000 Yamaha Speakers but with a Ztella Zorloo so no high end extreme DAC stuff, rather ordinary and cheap.
First of all I am supper happy that more people have the opportunity to move away from the horrible mp3 quality. Now price alone (TIDAL is double than Apple Music) I find Apple's Hi-Res sound "quieter" and softer.
Still though, Apple has a long way to (there are plenty decoding bugs here and there). The first time I've hear MQA audio, I was truly impressed and with the addition of a portable DAC I could have such quality on the go. Putting those two side by side I feel that Apple's Hi Res is better. I am in favour of the round sound on the edges rather than the noisy MQA - it's louder but it doesn't mean it's better. I tested on the following tracks: Love-Alone Again or / REM-The Sidewinder Sleeps tonight / Ramones-Sheena is a Punk Rocker / The Beatles - Here Comes The Sun / RHCP- Snow (Hey Oh)/ Iggy Pop - The Passenger. Thank you.
Great and simple to understand. Thank you
The dragonfly black setup is what have been using for about a year with Amazon music HD/ hi-res with both an iPhone XR and now an iPhone 12.
I've realized for some time that using my iPad was the better way to get Audio (Hi Res or Hi Fi). Using the Mac OS was not as clean. Having used Tidal and Qobuz with the same DAC (SMSL m500) on Mac OS, I would run into audio switching issues. And having the iPad just do all my Audio streaming made more sense. I could free my laptop for other work, while my pad would handle all my streaming apps and audio "better" via a USB-C to USB-A cable (no adapters) strait to my DAC, and from there to my powered Klipsch "the sixes" speakers.
I could then turn off/on my bluetooth adapter in iOS when I didn't need it (my airpods autoswitch and that can cause issues). Have a nice touch screen (and the keyboard too) for moving about on the Pad. I'm assuming that Apple will fix MacOS to better handle this.
BUT, it also seems to me that the best Mac for this task is really the mini. Something you can place in your rack or "TV" stand area and connect to a DAC and just leave it alone. Maybe connect it to your TV (HDMI) and your set. BUT, again most folks such as yourself have ROON or other audio systems setups that better integrate things so you don't need to have a full on computer. Or at least, not have it integrated with the rest of your gear (wifi and or ethernet accessible from anywhere in the house). I'm hoping Apple allows better integrations with these systems. Or at least create iMusic Connect or something. So we can have it all. I'm fairly sure they will, otherwise why bother giving Hi-Res to the masses. They could have stopped at CD quality and been done with it. It may have to do with the fact that MacOS isn't ready with audio switching, and that they didn't want to give it away before announcing it. Also, they don't have proper DAC's in their computers and mobile devices. So I expect they are testing the waters first, see how many people are doing the Hi-Res thing before committing to at least a basic quality DAC across the board in everything they make.
The mini is the way to go. The trouble I found with Roon endpoints is the Roon software is continually being updated. I've had so many issues over 2 years where an update leaves you without an endpoint or random dropouts and restarts. You spend more time being tech support than enjoying music! Switched to a mini and this has been a 10x better experience and rock solid without any issues.
Dac + dragonfly cobalt not Working anymore with iPad mini 4, Power or New iOS, tried almost everything !?!
John, thanks so much for this video. Made a world of difference for me. I have a pair of KEF LS50W (version 1) and trying to stream Tidal via the KEF control app was always hit and miss. The wifi connection would drop or songs would get stuck trying to load on the phone and just never play. I also have Apple Music for my whole family. Now I simply hook up the iPhone directly via USB to the KEF speakers and via, hi-res music that is gapless. Always works now. Thank you
Question: so if I’m using a Mac Mini as my music source what is the best midi setting to use for all sample rates? I notice the Dac decodes at whatever the midi is set at, not what the source material is.
Same here - still no solution for this. Please tell me when you find the solution - will do the same of course
Very useful video, John. I just wonder if there's any setting that needs to be done on the iPhone (which I plan to use as the streaming device) in order for the music to be fed to the external DAC as opposed to iPhone's tiny speakers?
Any ideas on what’s causing some tracks to freeze dead on 15 seconds in?, since using lossless.
Is it related to when using 4g ?
Seems ok on WiFi at home
I had the same problem. It appears to be caused by slow internet speed.
Yeah me too, the problem is that i want to listen lossless in my car…any solution ?
Darko - I was pretty critical of the last video on this subject. This one was well done and shows the options while still calling out the limitations. Great follow up. I’m subscribing.
Doing this has led to me experimenting with an iPad as a Roon endpoint. Quite impressed with the results. Wouldn’t be the streamer of choice, but for a flexible other Zone endpoint it works well. Just have to have the Roon app active.
I'll tell you my story which strongly confirms what you have very well explained in your video...
I landed to liquid music a couple of years ago when I finally bought a decent DAC.
I started streaming music from my mid 2010 Macbook Pro (updated and dedicated), but I soon realized that my CD's ripped into the Itunes library were all compressed to AAC... And that all the Apple music catalogue was compressed as well.
So I moved to Qobuz: decent app for streaming hi-res, but no friendly features like Tidal Connect and Spotify Connect and, worst of all, after a while, I realized that a lot of titles among my favorites were not in the Qobuz catalogue.
Then Apple released its hi-resolution service:
"Cool! - I said - since the Apple catalogue is where I will finally find all I like"....
But I soon realized that Apple supplies hi res music via Apple Music only and NOT via Itunes... My Macbook Pro proved too old to support the latest OSX with Apple Music...Dam!
So my old Mac, which I designated for music only, had to be substituted by my all purpose Macbook Pro class 2016 (Monterey updated and Apple Music compliant)...
BUT, as you mentioned, I discovered that there is no way to make the USB output match the resolution that Apple Music is actually playing...
Oh, yes, there are a couple of third party apps that should automatically set the USB output to the right resolution, but since they are not native within Apple Music, they click and pop when the resolution changes from a song to another.
Not to mention that all the Macbook Pros have a quiet, but present, fan noise starting from time to time.
So finally I took my 5 yo Ipad, which I had actually forgotten in a drawer, and I did exactly what you reported in the video...
But, I tell you what: the Apple Lightning to USB OTG cable is flimsy and shamefully expensive for its value, nor Apple Music neither Ipad can be remotely controlled by another device (again, all my admiration to the Spotify connect solution).
And you know what I learnt?
1) Hi resolution streaming is definitely not for dummies...
2) Why so many people is getting back to vinils
3) Why Tidal is more expensive than the other music streaming providers.
4) Why Spotify is so popular.
Thanks for sharing and explaining so well the way you do it!
Ciao from Rome
Hi John, if I plug my iphone/ipad with lightening to my KEF LS Wireless via USB then that should also output Hi-Res ? As it will use the DAC from my KEF. Am I assuming right ?
Yes using Apple lightning to USB three camera adapter kit.
Great vid , I wonder if copy lightning to headphones jack also work , thanks mark
Would like to see Mac to Amp with built in DAC,….
I worked in a recording studio in LA as an assistant engineer. Everything was exported to CD quality 16bit 44.1K in the end anything above that is marginal improvement. Yes it’s nice to hear the mix from a console in hi-rez but I still listen to everything at CD quality.
This was a fantastic follow up to your first Hi-Res Apple Music video. And, yes. That rant was very warranted.
I love the fact you brought a solution to the table. For most people, CD quality will be enough. Those those that want to go the extra mile for the 192, it's good know we can pull that resolution out of the iPad with minimal effort.
Excellent explanation, I was a bit put down in your last Apple Music Video, but now it's clear, Thanks John.
Unfortunately, as another commenter has mentioned, using the Apple Music client to stream up to 24bit/48kHz audio from Apple Music servers over AirPlay to compatible speakers will result the Apple Music client streaming 256k AAC stream to those compatible speakers. You may get 24/48 across if you download the ALAC files, then AirPlay them. There is a rather long thread on Naim Audio Community’s Streaming Audio forum about it.
I have moved to Apple Music from TIDAL and listen on the KEF LS50 Wireless II speakers that are KEF's latest iteration of the KEF LS50 active speakers. I decided recently and without seeing your post to switch back to TIDAL. I posted above, after switching back to TIDAL and have now just read your post. There is a harshness at the top end of the frequency spectrum when listening to Apple Music. The KEF's are a very revealing speaker. The problem is quite noticeable. Now I understand what is going on. Very disappointing. Thank you so much for your comment.
I dont own an apple product and i still find this helpful and educational. Like your content Darko.
I hope Roon will add Apple Music to its app.
Either Roon or USB Audio Player Pro
Won't that require Apple opening up their ecosystem for AM to work? If, so I can't see that happening as they are trying to sell more and more of their hardware products. I'd think this would lessen that. But, like you, I'd love AM on all third party hardware
@@LIL-MAN_theOG I totally agree. It will never happen. Apple wants to keep you within their walled garden.
One thing I noticed is that if you are using an iPhone 12 Pro Max as I was and your DAC is a Cambridge Audio DAC magic is that you need the USB C camera adapter with the lightening port and have power going to it, otherwise you get a message saying that the device needs too much power and it won’t work.
Finally! Now, can you also suggest the best way to get the full lossless res over wifi? So no AirPlay, so then what? Could it be a software restriction at present moment?
Not with Apple music mate. You need Tidal Connect or use Roon (Tidal or Qobuz) for that. AirPlay is what it is...
If you use the Apple System Audio menu to activate AirPlay and not the Apple Menu audio selector you’ll get lossless - resampled to 16/44.1 via AirPlay. Not sure about from iOS. It’s says it is lossless but I don’t think it is.
Thank you so much for this video. I just signed up for Apple Music for lossless and high res streaming and was so confused on what I needed to unlock high res. Confirmed that I need the lightning to USB adapter and an external DAC to unlock it. I'm currently using Airplay 2 to Airport Express 2 which I know doesn't support high res.
Thanks for the great video. Unless they've changed it in a recent update, unfortunately iOS USB C is limited to 48kHz output. Using the adapter as you've shown works great for my old iPad and iPhone 7 using lightening output......but on my new iPad Air with USB C its limited to 48kHz. No 96 and no 192. I assume Apple will update this at some point otherwise what's the point of hires when it can't be output as such?
Which iPad does this work for? iPad 6, 7, and 8?
I’m thinking about getting one to replace my Cambridge CXN V2 since it’s so much cheaper.
Did this change with the m1 chip iPad pros ? Or is it still capped at 48kHz ? Thanks
another option that I've been using is with a lighting to HDMI adapter with my iPhone or iPad or HDMI straight out on my MacBook Pro, into the HDMI port and into the DAC on my Marantz receiver.
I find it hard to get excited that Apple and their ilk now offer "CD quality" audio when "CD quality" technology will turn 40 next year. CD quality has been available for years from CD's, but everyone has been accepting poor quality streams from the likes of Apple and Spotify. Anyone under about 20 who has only ever streamed don't know what they've been missing out on so far as sound quality (damn I sound old).
Whilst I do stream, it is just easier (when at home) to pop in a CD, press play and sit back and relax, knowing that I will hear excellent quality without having to delve in to settings in an app. You can buy 5 second-hand cd's off Ebay each month for the price of a monthly subscription to one of these services. And then the music belongs to you. Forever.
Spotify have bad masters, but apple music with apple digital master is better i think, now i re discovered cd abd they sounds great for home! To move i have a simple mp3 320 with and bt dac like fiio btr3
I think the bottom line is that convince will trump quality, unless the bluetooth protocol can somehow transmit more data/in true hi-res it will be hard to get a large chunk of people listening to true hi-res audio
Well done. I used an iPad Air 4 with USB-C multi adapter to a USB-B to A Audioquest cable into the USB Computer Input on a Cambridge Audio CXN v1 and voila. Hi Res lossless from Apple Music. Thank you for demystifying Apple Lossless!
Spotify please hurry before you lose a customer!!
2 years later ….. F
I'm gone. Apple music is amazing.
I'm about to ditch YT music for apple music. I was thinking about Qobuz but they don't have much of my playlist.
Too late lol
3 years later ……….
Superb explanation. Love the attitude in solving the problem you pointed out to in the previous video. Also you jus stopped me from buying what I thought was a high res Bluetooth adapter. So thanks!
Does up-sampling have draw backs to sound?
I do have the same thought
Nice one bro. Great follow up video. I didnt think Gotcha was negative at all. It was really humorous & quite informative. I sent Gotcha to my son who has Apple coming out the wazoo & Dongle tails hanging out of almost every pocket. Although he found Gotcha funny, he was not very happy about the Road-Block situation in regards to Hi-Res Output. I sent him this new link & now he is a Very Very Happy Boy. Thank you.
I'm glad that you've decided to low comments. I missed being able to discuss your videos and I hope that we can all behave enough to keep it around.
I think we’re going to see AirPlay3 get released this fall which would allow hi-res lossless streaming.
😮 Thank you, I think you are the only person who has explained this for Apple users.
I ditched Deezer for Apple Music, just waiting on Apple to provide lossless on Windows
Yeah it's taking a bit longer than I would have liked.
I'm curious do you use Apple Music on an iPhone/iPad but have a Windows PC?
Yes, that‘s the way to go. Got my iPad connected to the DAC. Spectacular quality on Apple Music. Way better than Tidal. Now Apple needs to integrate some remote functionality, so I can control my iPad‘s playback from the iPhone.
Way better than Tidal? Explain how ALAC is superior.
I’ve always used my ipad with a usb cable into the front of my marantz 8008cd CD player USB port and select usb input. Then optical into my amp, I can slo use my phone as a remote so get a display on my ipad, and the laziness of sitting in my chair switching tracks etc.
I have only recently bought a DAT player more out of nostalgia, and thought if I stream into it digital from tidal, apple Spotify etc “I know I can record some songs onto a DAT and play them off line’ but nopey no…….I now know that the music is overlaid with a blocker that brings up a “prohibited’ message on my DAT screen, but analogue input into the DAT is fine. But the quality is so good I’m happy to record analogue input.
Thought I would share that with you.
I feel like the dragonfly black is losing its statement as the price champ for portables, the Zorloo Ztella is great for this and doesn't require a dongle as you can buy a usb-C to lightning adaptor from them. Or on an Android phone the helm bolt works well at the price, but if you can go a little higher the ifi hip dac is honestly up there with the dragonfly red for me sound wise
Nice and well explained. Thank you. The only downside is apple music app is the worst of all the apps for music streaming, it crashes, pauses, takes ages to load and the interface is very uggly. If it wasn't for the ALAC Hi-Res Losless will be Dissapointed in every single way.
I have no such problems. my is perfect.
Why does Apple Music seem so much more complicated to use than Tidal or Qobuz?
I think, paradoxically, it's more complicated because it's simpler! What I mean is that we're talking about different target audiences. Apple Music doesn't actually give you any playback options other than AAC, lossless, or hi-res lossless-no "only use this output device" option, exclusive mode, no integer mode, no "lock the device volume," nothing that's truly targeted at audiophiles. I think Apple is doing lossless music mostly to check off a box when they're compared to other services, since everyone else either already does it or has announced they're going to.
Tidal has Tidal Connect. Apple has Airplay (inferior). Tidal and Qobuz can be incapsulated in Roon for max performance. Apple can't. It's the different between "specialist" and "generalist": most people don't even care wether it's an MP3 or lossless. They will just keep playing music the way the used to be before this "high-res Apple revolution".
@@chipotlecoyote Agree its very simple if you either a) have the most of the hardware/software or b) simple needs.
What could be simpler than streaming Lossless content from a catalogue of 70 million (eventually) from your phone to your Amp or Streamer many of which on the market today have Airplay onboard.
It's only gets complicated if you insist on listening to HiRes which as John keeps telling us over and over again is a red herring as there simply isn't much Hi Res content anyway and its debatable how much difference there is over Redbook anyway.
In the video at approximately 1:58 John says that you can get 24/48khz via Airplay . Is there anywhere this is published by Apple, most sources I've been able to find claim that Airplay downsamples to 16 bit/44.1 khz.
I would love your take on the quality of the music now that apple is upgrading their catalog, please do a video on that. Also, can you do a review on the spacial audio, I know it’s gimmicky but I would still get a kick out of you reviewing it
What about using Lightning to HDMI adapter to get hi res lossless to an AV receiver with HDMI inputs?
Is there a way to send a high res and/or lossless stream to a Raspberry Pi?
You need a DAC anyway, or the audio file will be compressed
Thank you John for providing these options. Following our last discussion I have now taken out the Apple trial and would like to add a couple of additional options: 1) Apple desktop - in my case MacMini with a Denafrips DAC connected via USB. For remote management I use VNC viewer on my iPad to control the MacMini’s screen and keyboard. 2) The alternative would be to use a screen with the Mac and a wireless keyboard. I don’t need to change the sound settings after choosing lossless and 196kHz between tracks - DAC shows hires. I hope that helps others too for obtaining high quality playback.
Apple - the world of dongles. Question is, who wants a hi-fi setup like this? I guess no one. Anyway good video showing how it is done.
You will need a dongle on android for a higher sample rate , so what’s your point here ?
@@Fatih-xl7ynHis point was clear, how did you manage to not understand it?
Thank you! Superb and simple. I had been futzing around with AppleTV and the iMac but had not tried the iPad yet. Indeed, by far the simplest way to enjoy lossless.
Now I know that human ears can't hear hires frequency 😭
as stand alone tone - yes. but real sound is not only the tones.
At least it seems to get easier. I do not live in Apple Universe but for me there is no tablet as good as the iPad. So after a few years I purchased a new iPad Air. And was a little bit surprised because the redirection over the Camera adapter is not longer needed. Plugged a FiiO KA1 dongle in the iPads USB-C and got High Resolution and even MQA out of Qobuz, Tidal, Amazon MHD and even Apple Music Lossless. Maybe John can have another look on it.
The day we got lossless I cancelled my Tidal subscription.
It's all good if you're on iOS but if you're an Android user, you're still better off with Tidal.
@@GenkiStarLeaf why is this?
@@GenkiStarLeaf Yeah I get ya. And the dumb 24/48 lock on Android doesn’t help either, unless you get UAAP.
@@GenkiStarLeaf the beta apple music app I’m using on my Shanling M8 is doing very well.
@@denisruskin348 I got Tidal to use on my Hi Res player. Tidal updated there software! It a pain to use with a phone (battery, camera attachment needed) Vs Bluetooth I have a fiio bt5 the different is noticeable so is the convenience I expect apple has something in mind for Bluetooth coming up next.
I thought that I would share a solution that I encountered when trying to hookup my iPhone 12 ProMax and run Apple Music through my Auralic Altair G1 DAC using the Lightning to USB adapter you recommended. My iPhone said it did not have enough power to run the Auralic. The solution was to use an Apple Lightning to USB camera with charging port. This allows one to charge their iPhone while using the USB hub. I noticed that you ran your iPad into an RME DAC and maybe it has enough output compared to an iPhone. I have an RME DAC as well and will try using my iPhone to see which adapter works.
Just learned that Apple Music won’t play lossless through PC iTunes
😭😢
Great video. Can you explain the usb male cable that goes into the RME? What sort of input is the other end of the cable? Thank you
Hopefully BluOS will offer a native Apple option in a year. Til then, thanks for lighting a fire under Apples butt to fix this properly.
Very helpful. Sample rate switching on the Apple ecosystem is very tricky.
When will you be able to do the HI-RES AUDIO and AMAZON MUSIC done right! video I wonder?