This! Just... THIS!!! I want a new 2D Mario game that surprises me and defies my expectations just like Odyssey did and the DKC games do all the time. We need the same ambition Nintendo had when they made SMB3 and SMW. Copying those games isn't ambition. SMB3 had great, creative worlds for it's time, but reusing them in every game just because they were unique back in 1988 does not make them more creative or unique now. If anything, it makes them more generic.
I've been playing new super mario bros for the last few days and thinking the exact same thing! I've now gone back to donkey kong to complete it for the 4th time. It never gets old!
The no.1 best thing about Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze is Busted Bayou. The level is fun, the music is fantastic, the coloring is nice and the hidden Easter egg is pretty cool! Even though it's one of the first worlds, it's a really good one!
We seriously should get a Super Mario Run-esque thing with characters. Like future light DLC for NSMBUD would be great, and probably make it better received.
I completely agree, this game is miles and miles better than Mario U. Also, love the thumbnail. Cranky teaches em a good old lesson. Also: While Funky Kong may be easy mode, atleast you can still lose as him and he has downsides to him as well. Like no buddies. Or the glide not being too useful. BUY THE GAME NOW. You won't regret it!
I think another thing is the bosses in Donkey Kong. Of course there’s the standard argument of “it’s just the koopalings again” in Mario but it’s more than that. In the Koopalings battles, nothing particularly interesting happens. They’re all just jump on the head 3 times at their core - despite the slight gimmick variations for each Koopalings. Plus, I’ve never even seen the gimmicks past the first jump on the head, as I just immediately jump on them again before they have a chance. On the other hand, each DK boss has it’s own unique attacks, own unique way of beating it, own unique design, and is genuinely challenging. Plus it’s usually 9 times to defeat, and so each 3 turns usually has a progression of difficulty.
NSMBU had that one neat stage with the van Gogh artstyle. I'd like to see them expand on that with each world being based on different eras and regions of art. Hieroglyphs, cave paintings, the Renaissance, cubism, abstract, moderism, Norse wood carvings, surrealism... a lot of these could play into powerups and gameplay mechanics too.
I’d like to see different characters with different abilities. Not in the Easy Mode style like Toadette, more like 3D world. Along with the original 4 and maybe Rosalina as well, I’d like to see: -Wario -Powered up ground pound -Cannot triple jump -Waluigi -Can jump out of bottomless pits only taking one hit of damage -Loses the spin ability -Daisy -Increased power-up power (three fireballs during fire flower, etc) -Can only take a max of 2 hits
#4, context, is one of the reasons I love Samus Returns. 3d backgrounds with the platforms actually being formed by coming out from those backgrounds, the world looks so much more detailed and structured.
It's been the difference between Donkey Kong Country and 2D Super Mario games for years. Donkey Kong Country presents a fully-actualized world the characters inhabit. 2D Super Mario is, at best, an obstacle course.
Whatever Retro Studios is doing, I hope they’re making a new DKC. Or hell a new 3D Donkey Kong would be dope regardless if they make make it or not. (I’m probably the only one though).
Steel Tarkus You are being so fucking exaggerated, as if we were comparing it to Busby 3D. Besides, the point of a remake (aside from new stuff) was fixing as much issues as possible similar how Samus Returns did with Metroid 2: Return of Samus, improving the experience of the game.
I can't agree more, Nintendo really should step up their game when it comes to designing what was once their main series of videogames, especially when others with presumably less resources are doing it so much better than they are.
I'm not sure whether you're joking or not, and whether replying to you only fuels your excitement for conflict, but *in my opinion* Tropical Freeze is honestly one of the most well-designed games I've ever played, if you think otherwise, than it's sad to hear you didn't enjoy the game the way I and many others have
I agree, the bonus rooms should have either been expanded upon or cut entirely, but that's only a tiny fraction of the entire game, saying a game is poorly designed purely because Rare didn't have the guts to remove a key feature of the DKC games is not a great argument, in terms of thematic world building, using and expanding upon mechanics, and generally making the player have a great time, DKC TF ranks among the best in my books
Also let me add: The puzzle pieces are in no way required to enjoy the game and if you do not enjoy the bonus rooms they primarily apear in, you simply have the option of skipping them entirely
What? DK Tropical freeze has bad level design? Lol Have you played the same game as us? Its level design is genius. Much better than nsmbu level design which is basic and reuses ideas seen in a lot of previous Mario games. The only bad part about the game are the bonus rooms which are lazy and even so they are optional if you dont want to get those concept arts.
I would also say that the bosses in DKCTF are so much better than mario's. They have diverse attacks, are unique, can be damaged in multiple different ways, have personality, have killer music, are challenging, etc...
I have to admit, that Donkey Kong game is probably the most impressive platformer I've seen regarding visuals and level themes. It looks like one of those games I must try sometime in the future. I'm keeping everything you said in mind when trying to make my own games in the future.
Donkey Kong Country in general is so much more fun than 2D Mario, in my opinion. The platforming, the challenge (and rewarding feeling from said challenge), the collectables, the level design, the music... The DKC series is just vastly superior to me. The only 2D Mario game I played that felt even remotely close was Super Mario World, in terms of enjoyment.
@bitchasshoeism I can only assume you're trolling, especially with a username like *"bitchasshoeism".* ...But, on a serious note, that is just your opinion. I can see you feeling that way if you're part of the younger generation, and never really got into those games growing up. I'm guessing you are. But in my case, I grew up playing Rareware (as Rare labelled themselves for a time, before Microsoft bought them). Games like DKC, DK64, Banjo-Kazooie, and Conker were my childhood, and I adored these games for their amazing music, quirky designs, and great levels. I see replay value in a good many of their games. Rare (when they were part of Nintendo) was a magical company to me. You say games like Donkey Kong Country have awful level design and haven't aged well, but I'm sure there are plenty of people who would certainly beg to differ.
Idk. I guess it was some thing dumb like "Still no Kremlings!" or something like that. Although I would love to see K. Rool return even if he were a secret boss.
@@WarriorOfWriters We can only hope. I heard that the developers wanted to make villains or w.e. without relying on the Kremlings. Heck, better to have them form an alliance with the new villains.
Sjono At the time people wanted Metroid Prime 4 despite retro already making a Trilogy and only one DKC game. That's why there was hatred for DKCTF. All the Key Metroid Prime developers left Retro to form their own companies. Prime 4 would have never been the same anyway.
Related to the better controls in DKC:TF, that game also has better momentum as a result as a reward for stringing together well placed jumps and rolls.
@ALongLeggedPissedOffPuertoRican there is nothing wrong with this design philosophy at all, even Tropical freeze does that. Lord frdrik takes the same amount of hits as pompy. taking out something thats part of the core simple design of bosses would make them not really mario anymore.
Each phase is 3 hits till the next phase. they collectively take longer because there is a phase dedicated to each cycle, but its still under 3 hit logic
@@ZeoLightning But it's 3 phases, so it's technically 9 hits. Then again, the reason 9 hits doesn't feel tedious is because unlike NSMB, DKC uses boss-only levels. So if you're going to criticize bosses, you need to keep that in mind.
Here are my own personal flaws with TF that I don't think anyone has brought up: - Funky Kong is only playable in Funky mode - If you play the game in Funky mode you can't switch that save file back to normal, even when beating the game's final boss (which I thought would happen but it didn't). I'm not sure if only hard mode will get unlocked when I do the temple levels. - Diddy, Dixie and Cranky Kong can only be played by P2 in multiplayer individually or in hard mode for singleplayer. I want to play the levels just as Dixie in single player in a non-hard mode but this is impossible. - P1 on the other hand in multiplayer HAS to be DK (there's also the choice of Funky in Funky mode). You can't swap with P2 unless you swap controllers. - Boss fights can be ridiculously long, so can be super frustrating if you die and have to restart all over again. - DK and Dixie in Funky mode could possibly be broken. Diddy feels kinda useless. TF I had a fun time doing multiplayer, I'm now concentrating on getting all the KONG and puzzle pieces and then getting ready to rage quit on the temple levels because I'm not a platforming expert aha.
*I never knew how connected the fruit levels were. Like I didn't recognized how the fruit turned into juice and then into ice treats.* I also didn't take note on the progressive wind in the windy levels. Cool! Thanks for the video!
I have ideas for context in 2d Mario. When Mario gets burned, he’ll get covered in ash for a few seconds. When he comes out of the water, have him drip for a few seconds. When there’s wind in the level, have him hold on to his cap as an idle animation. When he gets hit by a Goomba, have it get knocked back in surprise.
Say it again for all the people in the back. A lot of people probably will take all this criticism as hate when it’s all constructive and based on fair evidence. New super Mario bros tends to get much more attention than donkey kong simply because it’s a mario game. And other amazing platformers like donkey kong don’t get mentioned when they’re trying to break the mould. People will say that NSMBU is getting too much hate but honestly it’s baffling how it’s taken so long for many people to mention this. It’s been an issue for so long, the criticism isn’t to put the game down but to allow it to become a better game, a more innovative and creative experience, rather than feeling rehashed or recycled. Tropical freeze is without a doubt my favourite 2D plat-former simply for everything you said, the dynamic angles that expands the levels making it feel more immersive and providing 2.5D and sometimes 3D gameplay in a 2D platformer, the creativity, the innovation, the art design, the music which not only is a masterpiece btw but also accompanies the levels, every song fits with the theme but also changes dynamically, with every level. The constant change and progression provided from environmental themes and music makes each level feel fresh. The game tells a story with the music and the levels itself as there is a natural & cohesive progression throughout the whole experience. E.g in the juicy jungle with fruit being turned into jelly and the frozen fruit popsicles. The games characters all have personalities and charm, the final world has a sense of pathos using the worlds of returns as a way for is the player to feel a sense of loss as we see it’s icy destruction of what we were acquainted too in the previous game, this is how you make a sequel. You feel with the kongs as they try to reclaim their home and the music accompanied with each level again conveys that emotion of hope, anger and melancholy and many more, honestly the variety in both soundtrack and environments in unparalleled. Not many games are of this pedigree of quality I would say DKCR, Rayman origins and legends are up there too but because NSMBU is a mario game Nintendo doesn’t need to do much in terms of making the game feel “new” because the mario name alone will sell and people will praise it regardless because of its reputation thus overshadowing other titles that deserve the attention but don’t get it for the brand name alone. Overall I hope people will take this video as constructive criticism and realise mario isn’t perfect, the 2D games are very flawed and repetitive.
ALongLeggedPissedOffPuertoRican odyssey is a whole different deal, it was the next big 3D mario game, a system seller on par to BoTW. 2D mario games just don’t have that big of a reception compared to the 3D games of this generation. And from what it seems Nintendo knows mario can grab people by name alone and this monopolising effect allows the company to do basic business tactics and do little and make more profit of it. Why do they need to waste more resources to get more money when they can do the same thing with less? They can re-use the same assets and music and gameplay and still get a good reception from critics, fans and anyone else just because it’s mario. They could easily make it better but just choose not to.
@@Yoknuckles2 "2D mario games just don’t have that big of a reception compared to the 3D games of this generation" but they sell way more. Imagine if they put in as much effort as they did with Odyssey it would sell 3 times as much as Odyssey.
The Platformer Reviewer do they sell way more? I would have thought it’s the other way round. I mean 2D games are easier to make and there have been more 2D titles than 3D ones. But surely the demand for 3D games is higher than its 2D counterpart.
Thanks for reminding me how good DKTF is! I bought NSMBUD and I couldn't play it for more than a couple hours without getting bored. Even with my friends it just wasn't that fun for me personally.
SBM please return it if you feel like you won't enjoy it! If you can't return it, then resell it or consider gifting it to a friend. Please don't waste your money! Also sorry if this came off as rude. But there's no point in keeping a game you don't enjoy as much, right?
I agree with Jon, And I'm pretty sure we're all tired of basic Mario at this point. I feel Tropical Freeze is a better modern 2.5D game than Mario U. I'm on "Team Innovation" and not "Team Bland".😉
New Super Mario Bros U was one of those "This is why the Wii U undersold" games. Mario Tennis Ultra Smash is a "Why the Wii U failed" game. Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze is one of those "Why the Wii U deserved a second chance" games.
When you stop think about it, Mario U backgrounds had something interesting, those mountains are cool af, it would have been so much more cool if in later levels you were there
Holy crap half way through watching this the Mario U gameplay started to look so boring it made me sick but Tropical freeze looks so nice to look at and fun.
Without watching the video, I’m just going to say a few things. First, I think there is a significant difference in design philosophy that results from the characters. The way mario grows and shrinks creates a difference in the feeling of tightness. DK and his hitbox always remain the same. It feels completely natural to do a run without any power up partners. They definitely add something, but it’s extra to a wonderful core rather than the punishing feeling brought by being small mario. Having the video going while typing I say good list and reminds me of the points brought up “The Geek Critique.
I’ve seen people say they want retro to develop the next 2D Mario game, and I agree. They could give the new super Mario series so much more personality and variety.
Donkey kong country returns is probably my favourite wii game. I feel like modern mario games are too generic bit their also only really challenging in the way that there are massive jumps and lots of enemies and obstacles but they're not mentally challenging there's bearly any figuring out to be done and the boss fights are too easy and too boring. Every boss u have to jump on 3 times or hit a giant axe. Look at mugly u have to jump on him 9 times and he's the first boss..The donkey kong games are just so much more interactive than mario games. In the new mario games the level just happens but in dk games u have to go behind the main stage to solve a puzzle that opens up the next part of the level. One thing that mario games are missing is enemies like shy guys that u can pic up and throw at another enemy. This is why I like super mario land so much. Some levels u are in a submarine and have to shoot through walls to make it through the level. In the final level ur in a plane doing the same thing and the final boss fight wiv tatanga is great because he doesn't stop shooting and the bullets split making it harder to beat. Ntm the music is boring it's either happy go lucky music that even the enemies dance to or the dark and heavy castle music
One small change they could make that would drastically improve the art style: Ditch the orthographic camera. If you don't know the term, just know that it's why everything looks so flat. I'm sure they initially did this because they wanted the same precision as the classic games, but games like Tropical Freeze have shown that that's not necessary. Just look at the Mushroom Kingdom U level in Smash 4. It uses the same art style as NSMBU, but with a perspective camera instead of orthographic. And this one change makes it look _so much better._ I'd even say it looks _good!_
Totally agree, the only triple-A 2D platformer that comes close to Tropical Freeze is Rayman Legends, they are in a totally separate league from the New Super Mario games.
It's Donkey Kong Country 2. Shovel Knight is definitely not as good level design wise as Tropical Freeze. If you've played any old school platformer Shovel Knight has some ideas that have been done to death.
Every level being distinct, here's how I see that (Long, also presents ideas for Context and Surprise, as well as Storytelling in levels, maybe some art style ideas too): For the World 1 grassy plains-type levels, you could have the first level be your standard fare of an open stretch of field with terrain changes. You know how the second level is always underground? Quit with the pipes leading into them! We get it, they used to be plumbers. Make the caverns feel more natural, rather than fake sewers. Have us enter the underground through a cave leading into the depths of the earth, with moss growing along the path as the grass has spread from the outside ground into the cave. Hold off on the gemstone platforms for a while, let's not just have them in any old cavern underground. Let's just have rocky terrain with some dirt around. Instead of underground-patrolling Goombas being shiitake-based, make some mysterious offshoot of Gloombas that are based on glowing fungus. Hell, have some of these glowing fungi decorating the walls and lighting the place up, rather than the level having solid lighting with no discernible origin. And don't immediately follow the underground level with a sky level, show us the mushrooms that lead off the ground as we climb up onto the taller colossal ones. The maps kind of tie into this as well - Look how there's a very clear border between the plains and the desert. That makes no sense. Sandstorms passing by the edge of the desert region should be throwing sand onto the plains. So give the castle a slight weathered look from the force of the sand and wind. Maybe the boss door leads to a balcony with sand-crusting on it, and after beating the boss on the balcony, it gives out from the pressure because it's been worn down from exposure. Then the boss could have a second phase amongst the rubble of the balcony, where it takes a more desert-themed approach in battle. And on the map, give the edge of the plains some streaks of sand so there's a gradual contrast, not "suddenly desert". I might do a video on designing 2D Mario levels, actually. It'd be a great way to come back after three years of no content.
Honestly, this was a well-paced video. I suppose it helped that Jon was doing it; no offense to Andre... I will defend New Super Mario Bros. indefinitely, but it's fair to say that it can take some instructions from Donkey Kong. The artstyle in particular needs an update. You can only milk a generic Mario aesthetic for so long before most get sick of it. I like it, but why not make the character models a bit fresher? Similarly, the music should be mostly new. I don't think a 2D Mario will have unique songs for _every_ stage, but at the very least, update the overworld, World Map, Underground, boss, Super Star, and Flagpole themes. I'm surprised you didn't mention the bosses. At this point, most everyone are getting sick of the Koopalings. I still like them, but wouldn't object to more original faces or reusing other baddies like Petey Piranha or Big Bob-omb. Frankly, I think Nintendo will still keep Mario a bit conservative compared to DKC, but they will likely make the next 2D game more memorable. Incidentally, I do like Tropical Freeze. It certainly has love and passion put into it, and it certainly is one of the best sidescrollers to exist. I still like Mario U more because I'm a goofball and prefer simplicity, but I highly recommend Tropical Freeze to any Nintendo fan. Good video, guys. Very well-paced. 😊
1. What do you mean by "a bit fresher?" How could Nintendo change things without creating a repeat of "blue armed Sonic?" 2. I'm torn on the music. I've grown attached to the NSMB Wii soundtrack, and I wouldn't want Nintendo to forget about it completely. How about remixing the old songs? 3. Here's a compromise: Koopalings in the fortresses, unique bosses in the castles.
@@benhuang2773 1. Honestly, I really don't hate the New Super Mario Bros. aesthetic. I think it takes too much hate. What I was implying is just update the models in a similar fashion as Kirby Star Allies, where the characters still look recognizable but have higher quality models. 2. The music is also something I like, but since the soundtrack is mostly identical to Wii, a few new jingles would be appreciated. 3. A perfect idea! I still love the Koopalings, but having them and unique bosses would be fantastic.
@@TheMack625 1. I feel like "higher quality models" isn't going to be enough to stop the complaining. After all, "higher quality models" is exactly what happened with the Wii to Wii U transition. 2. Perhaps Nintendo should hold a "Music Remix Contest:" submit remixes of existing Mario themes, and the best ones get into the game.
Great video, GameXplain. I wrote this comment on another video but I think it fits better here. In my opinion, the Donkey Kong Country series just blows the 2D Mario games out of the water in every way possible. It's not even a close comparison. Donkey Kong Country has creative worlds that have a life of their own and even have little stories to tell (such as Juicy Jungle in Tropical Freeze showing the progression of turning fruits into popsicles). Mario games just recycle the same basic themes (grass, desert, snow, etc.) over and over again. The levels in Donkey Kong Country feel so alive and creative. The graphics are gorgeous and often include cool things going on in the background, the platforms actually feel like moving parts part of the level, and the mechanics are so creative and unique. In Mario games, the graphics are just repetitive backdrops, platforms are often just random floating objects with no real connection to the level, and the mechanics are far less diverse. The Donkey Kong Country games have unique and interesting bosses for every world, with fun and diverse mechanics for fighting each one of them, and you actually feel like you are fighting to inflict damage on them and take them down. The bosses are actually challenging. Mario games just reuse the same boring bosses (such as the Koopalings) over and over, who not only have NO connection or correlation to the world they inhabit, but are also repetitive and pathetically easy to beat. The final bosses are usually unbeatable by Mario on his own and the game just puts a lame kill switch just to make it possible for Mario to win (e.g., the button that collapses the bridge under Bowser). It never feels like you actually beat the final boss; it just feels like you got lucky enough to dodge a few shots and jump on a button that defeats the boss for you. Donkey Kong Country games actually make you work to win. You can purchase some helpful items along the way to slightly enhance your abilities, and you can get help from buddies that add new abilities to navigate the level, but they are mostly optional and serve only to diversify DK's move set. Mario games, on the other hand, include either 1) a bunch of gimmicky and situational powerups that are either required to get through certain sections that exist for the sole purpose of giving that power up a usage (such as the mini-mushroom that's used for mini-pipes), or 2) overpowered items that just allow the player to cheese their way through the levels (such as the propeller suit from NSMB Wii). I used to love playing through the 2D Mario games, but after I got my hands on Donkey Kong Country Returns and Tropical Freeze, I've barely even looked back. I honestly cannot understand how anyone could think 2D Mario is even remotely on par with, let alone better than, Donkey Kong Country. DKC is superior in literally every single way to 2D Mario.
18 likes and a love? Wow.. no really we need a Stunt Race FX HD. I’m probably one of the only few who played Stunt Race FX and it’s really fun for some reason.
Ehhh I don't really see a reason to compare the two, though both are 2D platforms they are have different ideas and goals: New Super Mario Bros U is a power-up and multiplayer focused game meant to be a casual simple time for anyone of any age range, meanwhile Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze is a much harder more strict single-player focused game (yes it has co-op, but it clearly wasn't idealized for it) with more skill based platforming. Plus pretty much everything you praised Tropical Freeze for here has been done by 2D Mario games before at some point in time (or were just plain nitpicks) making this all kinda moot in the end anyway.
That is true. But having so many "New" Super Mario Bros makes this game feel stale. And if Nintendo is to do the next 2D Mario game, they have to modenize it IMO.
@@aionios1796 I agree, I would like the next 2D Mario game to shake things up a bit. That said I am perfectly fine with the New Super Mario Bros games quadrilogy as in the end Nintendo intended them for simple fun, sometimes innovation is overrated. Plus we had a drought of 2D Mario games for almost 10 years so I don't mind Nintendo wanting to release a lot at once.
@@aionios1796 If nothing else update the graphics, mix up the world themes, and _stop making world 2 a desert, it's been done to death,_ last game with no W2 desert was Luigi's Mansion 2 IIRC
100% agreed. About the nitpicks, GX greatly exaggerates the spin button "issue", I personally don't see a problem with it. If anything, the Switch's Pro controller D-pad is way more of a hindrance (with the occasional unintended down presses) than this so called "issue".
David Wise may be the best Videogame composer of all time. Followed closely by Jeremy Soule (Elder Scrolls series) and Martin Odonelle (Halo series). Of coure Koji Kondo is up there too.
You should have mentioned the bosses. The bosses in tropical freeze just blew me away. Challenging, constantly adapting strategies, long, and each with their own unique music. Mario U's bosses aren't bad, they just don't feel quite as alive as these do. Shorter and while some use different attacks, for the most part it's rinse and repeat.
New Super Mario Bros U is far to be a master piece as Tropical Freeze is. DKTF is a game made with love (retro studios of course) Mario U (all New SMB series) is the most generic kind of games of Nintendo. Games like Dk and super mario 3D world (wii U) deserves a second oportunity
It's just sad that a lot of people buy Mario Bros. U Deluxe just because it's Mario. O played DKC Tropical Freeze even though I never played another DK game. It had nothing to do with nostalgia but still the game is my favorite 2D-platformer of all time
For those who have no idea: a few years ago, a dedicated team of fans created their own New Super Mario Bros. Wii hack. Came out around the same time as the Wii U, if I remember correctly. Played both it and Mario Bros. U, and I can definitely say the fan game has so much more love put into it. It's called "Newer Super Mario Bros. Wii" for those interested. I had tons of fun. They do cool things with world themes and they got their own composer for the music. It has a custom world map that is admittedly based on 2D sprite images unlike Mario Bros U, but feels like it had so much more love and thought put into it.
@@thekiss2083 Nothing wrong with spreading the message. Besides, it's not like Mark Brown was the first and only person to recognize the blatant creativity of Tropical Freeze's storytelling through stages.
I agree with everything you said but... I don’t know why, I just love New Super Mario Bros. U way more. It might come down to the controls and speed of that game.
I fully endorse the Tropical Freeze worship on this channel. It's one of the best games ever made and gets better every time I remember it. Time to replay it for the fifth time!
I agree. I even re-bought Tropical Freeze for the Switch, and even though I’ve played through it multiple times before on the Wii U, I still overall enjoyed playing it again on the Switch because of the detail, New Super Mario Bros. U captures the old school Mario feel, which is nice, but so is every old school Mario game that came out before the “New” series even started. If you they continue with this series I wanna see a MASSIVE upgrade on the Switch or future Nintendo consoles, or just put it to bed and continue with the 3D Land/World series...
Yeah, tropical freeze is amazing, but kirby is also up there with him, in planet robobot at least. Both in music, level design being each of them unique and themed about something, lore connection, personality, story and more
Yes, when Jon was talking about the Context of how the levels change as you progress further into the world, I immediately thought of Kirby Planet Robobot. Like it shows Pop Star being industrialized throughout by the Haltmann World Company.
I love Kirby: Planet Robobot! It's the best modern Kirby game. I especially like how it plays around with the level themes, such as having the starting grassland level be mechanized by the villains or having a huge Las Vegas style city level in a Kirby game.
I hope that Nintendo will finally be able to make a 2d Mario game that is just as good as tropical freeze. Or they could just make another lazy new super Mario game.
Just That One Guy I’d say that’s more of a curse rather than a blessing tbh. Sonic ‘06 was terrible (besides it story) due to how mechanically and technically broken it was rather than there being an inherent problem with the gameplay. But Sega just decided to ditch the open, 3D-Adventure formula entirely and scrap it in favor for the more linear 3D mixed with 2D segments boost formula. Which isn’t entirely bad, since I think the boost formula games are still great (outside of Forces), but it makes me wish Sega just tried to fix what they did wrong with Sonic ‘06 rather than starting entirely from scratch, as they always tend to do.
It's been really satisfying to watch Tropical Freeze gradually build up more and more goodwill. It had so much working against it: the "DKC was never good" crowd, the "should've been Metroid" faction that appeared with its announcement, its terrible release date, the fact it was on the Wii U, and the high price of its Switch port. But it seems to slowly, steadily be getting positive attention over the years. It's this underdog success story of a video game that has been fun to follow.
I was pretty upset with the price point for tropical freeze, so I waited til it went on sale, but after going to several stores, I discovered it was sold out. So I broke down and bought it full price and am having a great time playing it with my wife. Your constant raving about the game worked @GameXplain! Thanks!
Yeah, go and grab a copy of it. You might be shocked but I bought my Switch not because of Zelda Breath of the Wild or Mario Odyssey but solely for the Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze as I did not own a Wii U so didnt have chance to play it before. After playing it, it is one of the best 2d platformer of the era IMO😊
It's honestly rude how nobody gives Rayman legends credit. If you want a solid platformer, get it. One of my favorites. I own all three of them and Rayman is my favorite.
I definitely don't think it's rude. There are a lot of very good 2D platformers that are much better than the new super mario bros games, but that doesn't mean that you have to mention each one in a video about what donkey kong does better than new super mario bros.
TRUEN3SS 9003 Rayman Legends is a great game, the only 2D platformer that touches Tropical Freeze’s level of quality but it isn’t rude to not mention it lol
This! Just... THIS!!!
I want a new 2D Mario game that surprises me and defies my expectations just like Odyssey did and the DKC games do all the time. We need the same ambition Nintendo had when they made SMB3 and SMW.
Copying those games isn't ambition. SMB3 had great, creative worlds for it's time, but reusing them in every game just because they were unique back in 1988 does not make them more creative or unique now. If anything, it makes them more generic.
Woah dude, that's a pretty hot take you got there.
True. You're so right! I agree 100% with you. :D
@KingofUSA85 dude have you played tropical freeze
Oi NintendoFan o///
it's pretty ironic by this point that they still have new in the title
#11: The Boss fights. DKC:TF’s Boss fights are all creative, fun, and ridiculously challenging.
i dont need dk styled bosses in mario, damn that owl in tf
Geography and Maps Although at the same time, the boss fights are too long. They’re good, but could use less time for sure.
DKC: TF's bosses take more than 3 measly hits.
They last longer and they're better.
@@memedwin1438 lmao
@@bluerious5475 Idk about you but I sure as hell don't want to beat a boss in 3 easy hits under like 10 seconds, like with fuckin Boom Boom in SMB3...
Lv 1 Crook - New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe
Lv 35 Boss - Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze
Konrados232 :Shader Pl: that’s how Mafia works
Lv 100 - Stunt Racer FX
*Lv 0.5 Crook - New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe
**Lv 99 Boss - Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze
chungus kong
@@congrainshinny Chungus Kong was canon all along.
www.mariowiki.com/Mega_Rabbid_Kong
I've been playing new super mario bros for the last few days and thinking the exact same thing! I've now gone back to donkey kong to complete it for the 4th time. It never gets old!
Allan Johnstone I can play a 2D Donkey Kong game 100 times without getting old.
I did not get Mario u because I new this was gonna happen
@@Hologram-sh5qm how do you not age 😂
@@pizza619 yo it’s on switch online now and I already beat it. It’s super fun!
@@Hologram-sh5qm I have played some if it but I haven't beat it. It is a good game but I find my self using Diddy Kong more than donkey Kong.
The no.1 best thing about Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze is Busted Bayou. The level is fun, the music is fantastic, the coloring is nice and the hidden Easter egg is pretty cool! Even though it's one of the first worlds, it's a really good one!
SD_Smasher LTIMT Absolute masterpiece of a game, and absolute masterpiece of a level. When that sax kicks in, pure euphoria.
@Christian Flaherty please the introduction to the best minecart level!!!! High tide ride!!!! That level was just WOW!!!!
IM A DKC FAN SINCE CHILD
Cliffside Slide and Irate Eight are some of the best levels in the DKC Tropical Freeze imo.
Steps one through nine: Funky mode.
Step ten: Playable Peach or Wario.
Peach, Wario, Waluigi, heck, give us some crazy stuff like a playable Goomba, that would be funny!!
But what about Peachette- **bang**
Opening in Awe 👍
But what about Bowsette-
*tactical nuke! INCOMING!*
*alarms blare*
We seriously should get a Super Mario Run-esque thing with characters. Like future light DLC for NSMBUD would be great, and probably make it better received.
Next Video: 10 Lessons 2D Mario Can Learn from Stunt Race FX.
Lol
1. Stunt Race FX did not stick around so it would not become stale.
2. Stunt Race FX features unique and original things to it while 2D Mario rehashes.
3. In Stunt Race FX when you put in two players and only one moves, a CPU plays for the other one. In NSMBUD, you are lonely otherwise.
Hosted by Andre
Tropical Freeze is my all time favourite 2D platformer. I hope they complete this DKC trilogy with one more game on the Switch.
I completely agree, this game is miles and miles better than Mario U. Also, love the thumbnail. Cranky teaches em a good old lesson.
Also: While Funky Kong may be easy mode, atleast you can still lose as him and he has downsides to him as well. Like no buddies. Or the glide not being too useful. BUY THE GAME NOW. You won't regret it!
And NSMU is still great.
That's just how good Tropical Freeze is.
Chip I got the game recently it is good amzing music, visuals and level design
I’d like to see Retro develop the next 2D Mario game.
C Robinson
Same
Mario Maker was supposed to kill any new 2D Mario release.
Mario Maker was supposed to kill any new 2D Mario release.
Samba Lékouy no
Samba Lékouy
Well it obviously didn’t
Top 10 Twitter Rants that Jon made about Tropical Freeze ;)
Jammer?????? Wow.. you’re here...
@@Windows-du7id Wow... "your" not able to use correct grammar...
Albond xD, ill fix it
I think another thing is the bosses in Donkey Kong. Of course there’s the standard argument of “it’s just the koopalings again” in Mario but it’s more than that. In the Koopalings battles, nothing particularly interesting happens. They’re all just jump on the head 3 times at their core - despite the slight gimmick variations for each Koopalings. Plus, I’ve never even seen the gimmicks past the first jump on the head, as I just immediately jump on them again before they have a chance. On the other hand, each DK boss has it’s own unique attacks, own unique way of beating it, own unique design, and is genuinely challenging. Plus it’s usually 9 times to defeat, and so each 3 turns usually has a progression of difficulty.
Even though this comment is 3 years old, I'm VERY glad you pointed this out, because it's exactly what I was thinking when it came to bosses.
NSMBU had that one neat stage with the van Gogh artstyle. I'd like to see them expand on that with each world being based on different eras and regions of art. Hieroglyphs, cave paintings, the Renaissance, cubism, abstract, moderism, Norse wood carvings, surrealism... a lot of these could play into powerups and gameplay mechanics too.
let’s bump this up
How exactly would it affect gameplay?
This could work as an occasional thing, but NOT a permanent change.
I’d like to see different characters with different abilities. Not in the Easy Mode style like Toadette, more like 3D world. Along with the original 4 and maybe Rosalina as well, I’d like to see:
-Wario
-Powered up ground pound
-Cannot triple jump
-Waluigi
-Can jump out of bottomless pits only taking one hit of damage
-Loses the spin ability
-Daisy
-Increased power-up power (three fireballs during fire flower, etc)
-Can only take a max of 2 hits
Or make Wario's dash a shoulder bash from Wario Land
I’m fine with toadette, just don’t like the easy handicap
That's one thing I really enjoy in videogames, good selection of characters with varied, unique abilities
maybe, inspirations could be taken from super smash bros :)
Along with Yoshi being playable, he could throw eggs and swing with his tongue or cling to walls. Shame he wasn't in 3D World😒
#4, context, is one of the reasons I love Samus Returns. 3d backgrounds with the platforms actually being formed by coming out from those backgrounds, the world looks so much more detailed and structured.
It's been the difference between Donkey Kong Country and 2D Super Mario games for years. Donkey Kong Country presents a fully-actualized world the characters inhabit. 2D Super Mario is, at best, an obstacle course.
Tropical Freeze is such an underrated game!
Whatever Retro Studios is doing, I hope they’re making a new DKC. Or hell a new 3D Donkey Kong would be dope regardless if they make make it or not. (I’m probably the only one though).
Considering Metroid Prime 4 won't be developed by them, I hope they make a 3D Donkey Kong like DK64.
@@kazoorion7993 DK64 is an atrocity and an affront to humanity.
But I do hope they're making a third DKC game to cap out the trilogy.
Kazoorion That’s the kind of 3D Donkey Kong I had in mind. Unless they surprise us with something else.
A 3D donkey Kong game could be amazing if they had a unique gameplay style rather than a collectithon like 64
Steel Tarkus You are being so fucking exaggerated, as if we were comparing it to Busby 3D.
Besides, the point of a remake (aside from new stuff) was fixing as much issues as possible similar how Samus Returns did with Metroid 2: Return of Samus, improving the experience of the game.
So it took mario deluxe to to get the recognition donkey kong tropical freeze deserves
Indeed. The release of New Super Mario Bros U Deluxe brings justice to the Tropical Freeze reception.
I can't agree more, Nintendo really should step up their game when it comes to designing what was once their main series of videogames, especially when others with presumably less resources are doing it so much better than they are.
I'm not sure whether you're joking or not, and whether replying to you only fuels your excitement for conflict, but *in my opinion* Tropical Freeze is honestly one of the most well-designed games I've ever played, if you think otherwise, than it's sad to hear you didn't enjoy the game the way I and many others have
I agree, the bonus rooms should have either been expanded upon or cut entirely, but that's only a tiny fraction of the entire game, saying a game is poorly designed purely because Rare didn't have the guts to remove a key feature of the DKC games is not a great argument, in terms of thematic world building, using and expanding upon mechanics, and generally making the player have a great time, DKC TF ranks among the best in my books
Also let me add: The puzzle pieces are in no way required to enjoy the game and if you do not enjoy the bonus rooms they primarily apear in, you simply have the option of skipping them entirely
The bonus rooms are boring, but yeah still awesome games. as for 2d mario, i guess nintendo is too lazy.
What? DK Tropical freeze has bad level design? Lol
Have you played the same game as us? Its level design is genius.
Much better than nsmbu level design which is basic and reuses ideas seen in a lot of previous Mario games.
The only bad part about the game are the bonus rooms which are lazy and even so they are optional if you dont want to get those concept arts.
6:20 "I don't know what Toadette is thinking right now". Well I've seen enough horror movies to know she's thinking about murder :P
I would also say that the bosses in DKCTF are so much better than mario's. They have diverse attacks, are unique, can be damaged in multiple different ways, have personality, have killer music, are challenging, etc...
I have to admit, that Donkey Kong game is probably the most impressive platformer I've seen regarding visuals and level themes. It looks like one of those games I must try sometime in the future.
I'm keeping everything you said in mind when trying to make my own games in the future.
u’ve already played it by now? its a great game and you have to try it
@@OrangeStaringCat Played Returns on my 3DS because I found it for cheap. Can't be bothered buying a Switch or a WiiU.
@@connordarvall8482 oh you dont have a switch?! then it is logical you dont have the game
All the footage from Tropical Freeze was so fun to look at it. I found myself a little “ehh” every time the video cut back to Mario
bitchasshoeism I actually don’t.
But visually, Tropical Freeze has so much more going on.
bitchasshoeism except DKC’s gameplay is way more interesting than NSMB’s gameplay.
Donkey Kong Country in general is so much more fun than 2D Mario, in my opinion. The platforming, the challenge (and rewarding feeling from said challenge), the collectables, the level design, the music...
The DKC series is just vastly superior to me. The only 2D Mario game I played that felt even remotely close was Super Mario World, in terms of enjoyment.
@bitchasshoeism I can only assume you're trolling, especially with a username like *"bitchasshoeism".*
...But, on a serious note, that is just your opinion. I can see you feeling that way if you're part of the younger generation, and never really got into those games growing up. I'm guessing you are. But in my case, I grew up playing Rareware (as Rare labelled themselves for a time, before Microsoft bought them). Games like DKC, DK64, Banjo-Kazooie, and Conker were my childhood, and I adored these games for their amazing music, quirky designs, and great levels. I see replay value in a good many of their games. Rare (when they were part of Nintendo) was a magical company to me.
You say games like Donkey Kong Country have awful level design and haven't aged well, but I'm sure there are plenty of people who would certainly beg to differ.
In my opinion they should make DK the main nintendo 2D platformer while Mario should focus on 3D games.
I’ll never understand people who were disappointed that Retro Studios made Tropical Freeze. I hope they make another Donkey Kong Country game
I hope they bring DKC Returns to Switch. But I would like a new DKC too.
Idk. I guess it was some thing dumb like "Still no Kremlings!" or something like that. Although I would love to see K. Rool return even if he were a secret boss.
@@dnmstarsi next freaken game better have freaken kremlings
@@WarriorOfWriters We can only hope. I heard that the developers wanted to make villains or w.e. without relying on the Kremlings. Heck, better to have them form an alliance with the new villains.
Sjono At the time people wanted Metroid Prime 4 despite retro already making a Trilogy and only one DKC game. That's why there was hatred for DKCTF. All the Key Metroid Prime developers left Retro to form their own companies. Prime 4 would have never been the same anyway.
This video is really just saying why DKC:TF is the best platformer game the whole time. And have no problem with that whatsoever, because it is.
I largely agree with a lot of the points made here. I just want to make sure that these two series still continue forward with separate identities.
Sometimes I think I subscribe to GameXplain just for the thumbnails.
Who’s here after the reveal of _Super Mario Bros. Wonder_ ? 😉
Related to the better controls in DKC:TF, that game also has better momentum as a result as a reward for stringing together well placed jumps and rolls.
You forgot one:
#11 better bosses
Making the bosses in Mario games have some type of health bar, or just have them take more than 3 hits to beat would make a pretty big difference.
@ALongLeggedPissedOffPuertoRican there is nothing wrong with this design philosophy at all, even Tropical freeze does that. Lord frdrik takes the same amount of hits as pompy. taking out something thats part of the core simple design of bosses would make them not really mario anymore.
@@ZeoLightning Tropical Freeze's bosses take way more damage to kill tho.
Each phase is 3 hits till the next phase. they collectively take longer because there is a phase dedicated to each cycle, but its still under 3 hit logic
@@ZeoLightning
But it's 3 phases, so it's technically 9 hits.
Then again, the reason 9 hits doesn't feel tedious is because unlike NSMB, DKC uses boss-only levels. So if you're going to criticize bosses, you need to keep that in mind.
He's the first member of the DK Crew!
DK
DONKEY KONG
DK
DONKEY KONG IS HERE!!
Here are my own personal flaws with TF that I don't think anyone has brought up:
- Funky Kong is only playable in Funky mode
- If you play the game in Funky mode you can't switch that save file back to normal, even when beating the game's final boss (which I thought would happen but it didn't). I'm not sure if only hard mode will get unlocked when I do the temple levels.
- Diddy, Dixie and Cranky Kong can only be played by P2 in multiplayer individually or in hard mode for singleplayer. I want to play the levels just as Dixie in single player in a non-hard mode but this is impossible.
- P1 on the other hand in multiplayer HAS to be DK (there's also the choice of Funky in Funky mode). You can't swap with P2 unless you swap controllers.
- Boss fights can be ridiculously long, so can be super frustrating if you die and have to restart all over again.
- DK and Dixie in Funky mode could possibly be broken. Diddy feels kinda useless.
TF I had a fun time doing multiplayer, I'm now concentrating on getting all the KONG and puzzle pieces and then getting ready to rage quit on the temple levels because I'm not a platforming expert aha.
tropical freeze is probably one of the most underrated games of all time
I love the thumbnail
*I never knew how connected the fruit levels were. Like I didn't recognized how the fruit turned into juice and then into ice treats.*
I also didn't take note on the progressive wind in the windy levels. Cool! Thanks for the video!
I have ideas for context in 2d Mario. When Mario gets burned, he’ll get covered in ash for a few seconds. When he comes out of the water, have him drip for a few seconds. When there’s wind in the level, have him hold on to his cap as an idle animation. When he gets hit by a Goomba, have it get knocked back in surprise.
@koolwhip 64 Oh yeah! That's right! Then how about we have the team that made the 3D Marios make a 2D Mario? That oughta show Nintendo how it's done.
Say it again for all the people in the back. A lot of people probably will take all this criticism as hate when it’s all constructive and based on fair evidence. New super Mario bros tends to get much more attention than donkey kong simply because it’s a mario game. And other amazing platformers like donkey kong don’t get mentioned when they’re trying to break the mould.
People will say that NSMBU is getting too much hate but honestly it’s baffling how it’s taken so long for many people to mention this. It’s been an issue for so long, the criticism isn’t to put the game down but to allow it to become a better game, a more innovative and creative experience, rather than feeling rehashed or recycled.
Tropical freeze is without a doubt my favourite 2D plat-former simply for everything you said, the dynamic angles that expands the levels making it feel more immersive and providing 2.5D and sometimes 3D gameplay in a 2D platformer, the creativity, the innovation, the art design, the music which not only is a masterpiece btw but also accompanies the levels, every song fits with the theme but also changes dynamically, with every level. The constant change and progression provided from environmental themes and music makes each level feel fresh. The game tells a story with the music and the levels itself as there is a natural & cohesive progression throughout the whole experience. E.g in the juicy jungle with fruit being turned into jelly and the frozen fruit popsicles.
The games characters all have personalities and charm, the final world has a sense of pathos using the worlds of returns as a way for is the player to feel a sense of loss as we see it’s icy destruction of what we were acquainted too in the previous game, this is how you make a sequel. You feel with the kongs as they try to reclaim their home and the music accompanied with each level again conveys that emotion of hope, anger and melancholy and many more, honestly the variety in both soundtrack and environments in unparalleled.
Not many games are of this pedigree of quality I would say DKCR, Rayman origins and legends are up there too but because NSMBU is a mario game Nintendo doesn’t need to do much in terms of making the game feel “new” because the mario name alone will sell and people will praise it regardless because of its reputation thus overshadowing other titles that deserve the attention but don’t get it for the brand name alone.
Overall I hope people will take this video as constructive criticism and realise mario isn’t perfect, the 2D games are very flawed and repetitive.
ALongLeggedPissedOffPuertoRican odyssey is a whole different deal, it was the next big 3D mario game, a system seller on par to BoTW.
2D mario games just don’t have that big of a reception compared to the 3D games of this generation. And from what it seems Nintendo knows mario can grab people by name alone and this monopolising effect allows the company to do basic business tactics and do little and make more profit of it.
Why do they need to waste more resources to get more money when they can do the same thing with less?
They can re-use the same assets and music and gameplay and still get a good reception from critics, fans and anyone else just because it’s mario.
They could easily make it better but just choose not to.
@@Yoknuckles2 "2D mario games just don’t have that big of a reception compared to the 3D games of this generation" but they sell way more. Imagine if they put in as much effort as they did with Odyssey it would sell 3 times as much as Odyssey.
The Platformer Reviewer do they sell way more? I would have thought it’s the other way round. I mean 2D games are easier to make and there have been more 2D titles than 3D ones. But surely the demand for 3D games is higher than its 2D counterpart.
@@Yoknuckles2 Nope look up the sales if you don't believe me
The Story of Juicy Jungle is so amazing.
agreed
And Jammin Jams is my favorite Track of the game..
Ign 10/10 good balance of story and juice
@@JojovonKoopa Are you everywhere?
@@mysterium368
I am, next question.
Thanks for reminding me how good DKTF is!
I bought NSMBUD and I couldn't play it for more than a couple hours without getting bored. Even with my friends it just wasn't that fun for me personally.
Shame. Its probably my favourite 2D Mario.
TripleJump
Wow 😮
The original NSMB will always be the best....
@@TripleJump I respect that. My favourite was easily New super mario bros on the DS, everything after felt somewhat homogenous, to an extent.
SBM please return it if you feel like you won't enjoy it! If you can't return it, then resell it or consider gifting it to a friend. Please don't waste your money! Also sorry if this came off as rude. But there's no point in keeping a game you don't enjoy as much, right?
5:02 #4: *K O N G T E X T*
I agree with Jon, And I'm pretty sure we're all tired of basic Mario at this point. I feel Tropical Freeze is a better modern 2.5D game than Mario U. I'm on "Team Innovation" and not "Team Bland".😉
You call it "Team Bland," I call it "Team Consistency."
@@benhuang2773 I call it "Team Consistency at Being Bland" lol
@@benhuang2773 The "consistency" is too much.
In other words...
Every game should just have *David Wise*
I hope Retro caps off the trilogy by returning the Kremlins as villains (or sick new ones like the Frost Vikings)
The funny thing is that both games are from the same Franchise.
DKC>Mario Bros.
TudBoatTed Rayman>DK
@@MarioNin64 na DK>Rayman>Mario
@@TudBoatTed *2D Mario. Odyssey is hands down better than DK
@@TudBoatTed *2D Mario. Odyssey is hands down better than DK
@@sirkibbles1944 Duplicated comment
New Super Mario Bros U was one of those "This is why the Wii U undersold" games.
Mario Tennis Ultra Smash is a "Why the Wii U failed" game.
Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze is one of those "Why the Wii U deserved a second chance" games.
2D mario is in dire need of some new ideas and has been for a while
@KingofUSA85
No, _Returns_ is a copy and paste of DKC1.
You did right by me for referencing Grassland Groove both in stage and music. It's a stellar stage. Like, why are we blessed with its existence?
Tropical Freeze is arguably the best 2d platformer ever made imo
This was well thought-out. Thanks!
"You never need to use the roll."
I BEG TO DIFFER.
When you stop think about it, Mario U backgrounds had something interesting, those mountains are cool af, it would have been so much more cool if in later levels you were there
Holy crap half way through watching this the Mario U gameplay started to look so boring it made me sick but Tropical freeze looks so nice to look at and fun.
Without watching the video, I’m just going to say a few things. First, I think there is a significant difference in design philosophy that results from the characters. The way mario grows and shrinks creates a difference in the feeling of tightness. DK and his hitbox always remain the same. It feels completely natural to do a run without any power up partners. They definitely add something, but it’s extra to a wonderful core rather than the punishing feeling brought by being small mario.
Having the video going while typing I say good list and reminds me of the points brought up “The Geek Critique.
been waiting for this video for 4 years
I’ve seen people say they want retro to develop the next 2D Mario game, and I agree. They could give the new super Mario series so much more personality and variety.
How to be a good game. Instead of hundreds of fine levels that take longer, have less more exillerating levels that are all memorable.
Donkey kong country returns is probably my favourite wii game. I feel like modern mario games are too generic bit their also only really challenging in the way that there are massive jumps and lots of enemies and obstacles but they're not mentally challenging there's bearly any figuring out to be done and the boss fights are too easy and too boring. Every boss u have to jump on 3 times or hit a giant axe. Look at mugly u have to jump on him 9 times and he's the first boss..The donkey kong games are just so much more interactive than mario games. In the new mario games the level just happens but in dk games u have to go behind the main stage to solve a puzzle that opens up the next part of the level. One thing that mario games are missing is enemies like shy guys that u can pic up and throw at another enemy. This is why I like super mario land so much. Some levels u are in a submarine and have to shoot through walls to make it through the level. In the final level ur in a plane doing the same thing and the final boss fight wiv tatanga is great because he doesn't stop shooting and the bullets split making it harder to beat. Ntm the music is boring it's either happy go lucky music that even the enemies dance to or the dark and heavy castle music
One small change they could make that would drastically improve the art style: Ditch the orthographic camera. If you don't know the term, just know that it's why everything looks so flat. I'm sure they initially did this because they wanted the same precision as the classic games, but games like Tropical Freeze have shown that that's not necessary.
Just look at the Mushroom Kingdom U level in Smash 4. It uses the same art style as NSMBU, but with a perspective camera instead of orthographic. And this one change makes it look _so much better._ I'd even say it looks _good!_
I don't really see the difference. It would probably only work in conjunction with other changes, not as a standalone.
Totally agree, the only triple-A 2D platformer that comes close to Tropical Freeze is Rayman Legends, they are in a totally separate league from the New Super Mario games.
Tropical Freeze is THE best 2D platformer ever made.
@bitchasshoeism could you tell us how?
OmegaMetroid93 Hollow Knight, Celeste, and Shovel Knight are amazing indies that completely destroy everything about Tropical Freeze.
It's Donkey Kong Country 2. Shovel Knight is definitely not as good level design wise as Tropical Freeze. If you've played any old school platformer Shovel Knight has some ideas that have been done to death.
Tropical Freeze is certainly a 10/10 game, but then you have the transcendental experience that is Celeste. Yes, it is just that good.
@@yoshiminer4289 haha... HAHAHA!
Oh golly...pfffthahahaha!
Every level being distinct, here's how I see that (Long, also presents ideas for Context and Surprise, as well as Storytelling in levels, maybe some art style ideas too):
For the World 1 grassy plains-type levels, you could have the first level be your standard fare of an open stretch of field with terrain changes. You know how the second level is always underground? Quit with the pipes leading into them! We get it, they used to be plumbers. Make the caverns feel more natural, rather than fake sewers. Have us enter the underground through a cave leading into the depths of the earth, with moss growing along the path as the grass has spread from the outside ground into the cave. Hold off on the gemstone platforms for a while, let's not just have them in any old cavern underground. Let's just have rocky terrain with some dirt around. Instead of underground-patrolling Goombas being shiitake-based, make some mysterious offshoot of Gloombas that are based on glowing fungus. Hell, have some of these glowing fungi decorating the walls and lighting the place up, rather than the level having solid lighting with no discernible origin. And don't immediately follow the underground level with a sky level, show us the mushrooms that lead off the ground as we climb up onto the taller colossal ones.
The maps kind of tie into this as well - Look how there's a very clear border between the plains and the desert. That makes no sense. Sandstorms passing by the edge of the desert region should be throwing sand onto the plains. So give the castle a slight weathered look from the force of the sand and wind. Maybe the boss door leads to a balcony with sand-crusting on it, and after beating the boss on the balcony, it gives out from the pressure because it's been worn down from exposure. Then the boss could have a second phase amongst the rubble of the balcony, where it takes a more desert-themed approach in battle. And on the map, give the edge of the plains some streaks of sand so there's a gradual contrast, not "suddenly desert".
I might do a video on designing 2D Mario levels, actually. It'd be a great way to come back after three years of no content.
Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze is my favorite 2d platformer of all time, it is a joy in every way.
What's your favorite?
I really like the aestetic of U's world Sparkling Waters lol
Honestly, this was a well-paced video. I suppose it helped that Jon was doing it; no offense to Andre...
I will defend New Super Mario Bros. indefinitely, but it's fair to say that it can take some instructions from Donkey Kong.
The artstyle in particular needs an update. You can only milk a generic Mario aesthetic for so long before most get sick of it. I like it, but why not make the character models a bit fresher? Similarly, the music should be mostly new. I don't think a 2D Mario will have unique songs for _every_ stage, but at the very least, update the overworld, World Map, Underground, boss, Super Star, and Flagpole themes.
I'm surprised you didn't mention the bosses. At this point, most everyone are getting sick of the Koopalings. I still like them, but wouldn't object to more original faces or reusing other baddies like Petey Piranha or Big Bob-omb.
Frankly, I think Nintendo will still keep Mario a bit conservative compared to DKC, but they will likely make the next 2D game more memorable.
Incidentally, I do like Tropical Freeze. It certainly has love and passion put into it, and it certainly is one of the best sidescrollers to exist. I still like Mario U more because I'm a goofball and prefer simplicity, but I highly recommend Tropical Freeze to any Nintendo fan.
Good video, guys. Very well-paced. 😊
1. What do you mean by "a bit fresher?" How could Nintendo change things without creating a repeat of "blue armed Sonic?"
2. I'm torn on the music. I've grown attached to the NSMB Wii soundtrack, and I wouldn't want Nintendo to forget about it completely. How about remixing the old songs?
3. Here's a compromise: Koopalings in the fortresses, unique bosses in the castles.
@@benhuang2773 1. Honestly, I really don't hate the New Super Mario Bros. aesthetic. I think it takes too much hate. What I was implying is just update the models in a similar fashion as Kirby Star Allies, where the characters still look recognizable but have higher quality models.
2. The music is also something I like, but since the soundtrack is mostly identical to Wii, a few new jingles would be appreciated.
3. A perfect idea! I still love the Koopalings, but having them and unique bosses would be fantastic.
New super Mario is garbage also tldr
@@TheMack625
1. I feel like "higher quality models" isn't going to be enough to stop the complaining. After all, "higher quality models" is exactly what happened with the Wii to Wii U transition.
2. Perhaps Nintendo should hold a "Music Remix Contest:" submit remixes of existing Mario themes, and the best ones get into the game.
@@QuaidShun
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is garbage.
Great video, GameXplain. I wrote this comment on another video but I think it fits better here.
In my opinion, the Donkey Kong Country series just blows the 2D Mario games out of the water in every way possible. It's not even a close comparison.
Donkey Kong Country has creative worlds that have a life of their own and even have little stories to tell (such as Juicy Jungle in Tropical Freeze showing the progression of turning fruits into popsicles). Mario games just recycle the same basic themes (grass, desert, snow, etc.) over and over again.
The levels in Donkey Kong Country feel so alive and creative. The graphics are gorgeous and often include cool things going on in the background, the platforms actually feel like moving parts part of the level, and the mechanics are so creative and unique. In Mario games, the graphics are just repetitive backdrops, platforms are often just random floating objects with no real connection to the level, and the mechanics are far less diverse.
The Donkey Kong Country games have unique and interesting bosses for every world, with fun and diverse mechanics for fighting each one of them, and you actually feel like you are fighting to inflict damage on them and take them down. The bosses are actually challenging. Mario games just reuse the same boring bosses (such as the Koopalings) over and over, who not only have NO connection or correlation to the world they inhabit, but are also repetitive and pathetically easy to beat. The final bosses are usually unbeatable by Mario on his own and the game just puts a lame kill switch just to make it possible for Mario to win (e.g., the button that collapses the bridge under Bowser). It never feels like you actually beat the final boss; it just feels like you got lucky enough to dodge a few shots and jump on a button that defeats the boss for you.
Donkey Kong Country games actually make you work to win. You can purchase some helpful items along the way to slightly enhance your abilities, and you can get help from buddies that add new abilities to navigate the level, but they are mostly optional and serve only to diversify DK's move set. Mario games, on the other hand, include either 1) a bunch of gimmicky and situational powerups that are either required to get through certain sections that exist for the sole purpose of giving that power up a usage (such as the mini-mushroom that's used for mini-pipes), or 2) overpowered items that just allow the player to cheese their way through the levels (such as the propeller suit from NSMB Wii).
I used to love playing through the 2D Mario games, but after I got my hands on Donkey Kong Country Returns and Tropical Freeze, I've barely even looked back. I honestly cannot understand how anyone could think 2D Mario is even remotely on par with, let alone better than, Donkey Kong Country. DKC is superior in literally every single way to 2D Mario.
WE NEED A STUNT RACE FX HD!!!!!!!
PLEASE NINTENDO!!!!!!
Edit: lol these likes😂😂
18 likes and a love? Wow.. no really we need a Stunt Race FX HD. I’m probably one of the only few who played Stunt Race FX and it’s really fun for some reason.
Another thing Tropical Freeze does: the enemies actually hit you when you touch them!
Ehhh I don't really see a reason to compare the two, though both are 2D platforms they are have different ideas and goals: New Super Mario Bros U is a power-up and multiplayer focused game meant to be a casual simple time for anyone of any age range, meanwhile Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze is a much harder more strict single-player focused game (yes it has co-op, but it clearly wasn't idealized for it) with more skill based platforming.
Plus pretty much everything you praised Tropical Freeze for here has been done by 2D Mario games before at some point in time (or were just plain nitpicks) making this all kinda moot in the end anyway.
That is true. But having so many "New" Super Mario Bros makes this game feel stale. And if Nintendo is to do the next 2D Mario game, they have to modenize it IMO.
@@aionios1796 I agree, I would like the next 2D Mario game to shake things up a bit. That said I am perfectly fine with the New Super Mario Bros games quadrilogy as in the end Nintendo intended them for simple fun, sometimes innovation is overrated. Plus we had a drought of 2D Mario games for almost 10 years so I don't mind Nintendo wanting to release a lot at once.
@@aionios1796 If nothing else update the graphics, mix up the world themes, and _stop making world 2 a desert, it's been done to death,_ last game with no W2 desert was Luigi's Mansion 2 IIRC
100% agreed. About the nitpicks, GX greatly exaggerates the spin button "issue", I personally don't see a problem with it. If anything, the Switch's Pro controller D-pad is way more of a hindrance (with the occasional unintended down presses) than this so called "issue".
@@Wiimeiser
What would replace the desert in World 2? A forest? Would we just move the desert to World 5?
David Wise may be the best Videogame composer of all time. Followed closely by Jeremy Soule (Elder Scrolls series) and Martin Odonelle (Halo series). Of coure Koji Kondo is up there too.
I was just watching a Tropical Freeze video about its level design and you guys just upload this lol
I'm so happy you guys are doing this, Tropical Freeze deserves to be as famous as any Mario (or more, even)
Nintendo taking notes from Nintendo
I’m so glad Tropical Freeze is getting the recognition it deserves
You forgot about the biggest thing NSMBU has over Tropical Freeze...
...wait...I-I actually can’t think of anything..
ExplodingCoconuts the painted swamp level
Sales.
Marceli Tucker-Szudra ah true that has always been a stand-out level
Scoobert Doobert true true
bitchasshoeism did you watch the video, NSMBU level design is basic and to some degree, repetitive
You should have mentioned the bosses. The bosses in tropical freeze just blew me away. Challenging, constantly adapting strategies, long, and each with their own unique music. Mario U's bosses aren't bad, they just don't feel quite as alive as these do. Shorter and while some use different attacks, for the most part it's rinse and repeat.
DK games have the best platformers. DKC 1, 2, 3, Returns and Tropical Freeze are some of the best 2D platformers you will ever play PERIOD.
New Super Mario Bros U is far to be a master piece as Tropical Freeze is. DKTF is a game made with love (retro studios of course) Mario U (all New SMB series) is the most generic kind of games of Nintendo. Games like Dk and super mario 3D world (wii U) deserves a second oportunity
It's just sad that a lot of people buy Mario Bros. U Deluxe just because it's Mario.
O played DKC Tropical Freeze even though I never played another DK game. It had nothing to do with nostalgia but still the game is my favorite 2D-platformer of all time
For those who have no idea: a few years ago, a dedicated team of fans created their own New Super Mario Bros. Wii hack. Came out around the same time as the Wii U, if I remember correctly. Played both it and Mario Bros. U, and I can definitely say the fan game has so much more love put into it. It's called "Newer Super Mario Bros. Wii" for those interested. I had tons of fun. They do cool things with world themes and they got their own composer for the music. It has a custom world map that is admittedly based on 2D sprite images unlike Mario Bros U, but feels like it had so much more love and thought put into it.
Somebody watches Game Maker’s Toolkit. Nice.
Videous stealus markus brownius
Right? Mark only got there like 3 years ago...
@@thekiss2083 Nothing wrong with spreading the message. Besides, it's not like Mark Brown was the first and only person to recognize the blatant creativity of Tropical Freeze's storytelling through stages.
I know. Just being a salty Wii U owner who knew this game was Really That Good almost 5 years ago
I was thinking the same thing...
I agree with everything you said but...
I don’t know why, I just love New Super Mario Bros. U way more. It might come down to the controls and speed of that game.
I fully endorse the Tropical Freeze worship on this channel. It's one of the best games ever made and gets better every time I remember it. Time to replay it for the fifth time!
I agree, tropical freeze is actually amazing
A lot of these ideas that Tropical Freeze has were also in 3D World in some form
Like what? I saw some ideas coming from DKCR, but nothing from 3-D world, which stole pretty much every ideas from the galaxy games.
Tropical Freeze game of the year baby
Gamexplain should make their own umbrella since they love throwing so much shade. And I LOVE them for it.
The only thing I hate about tropical freeze is that’s the villain aint king k rool
I agree. I even re-bought Tropical Freeze for the Switch, and even though I’ve played through it multiple times before on the Wii U, I still overall enjoyed playing it again on the Switch because of the detail, New Super Mario Bros. U captures the old school Mario feel, which is nice, but so is every old school Mario game that came out before the “New” series even started. If you they continue with this series I wanna see a MASSIVE upgrade on the Switch or future Nintendo consoles, or just put it to bed and continue with the 3D Land/World series...
Yeah, tropical freeze is amazing, but kirby is also up there with him, in planet robobot at least. Both in music, level design being each of them unique and themed about something, lore connection, personality, story and more
Yes, when Jon was talking about the Context of how the levels change as you progress further into the world, I immediately thought of Kirby Planet Robobot. Like it shows Pop Star being industrialized throughout by the Haltmann World Company.
Kirby is amazing too but I would say its more of a beat-em up platformer
I love Kirby: Planet Robobot! It's the best modern Kirby game. I especially like how it plays around with the level themes, such as having the starting grassland level be mechanized by the villains or having a huge Las Vegas style city level in a Kirby game.
Kirby is no where near DKC in terms of being fun for level design and atmosphere.
Kirby's been about the many powers you can use.
Kirby = Donkey Kong County > NSMB
Perfect thumbnail!
I hope that Nintendo will finally be able to make a 2d Mario game that is just as good as tropical freeze. Or they could just make another lazy new super Mario game.
Which will make lots of profit just like the other games
Profit doesn't mean jackshit if they half-ass their own products.
@@RoyNumber1 Sonic 06 made it to Platnium Hits, doesn't mean SEGA made every game in the footstep of 06.
Just That One Guy I’d say that’s more of a curse rather than a blessing tbh. Sonic ‘06 was terrible (besides it story) due to how mechanically and technically broken it was rather than there being an inherent problem with the gameplay. But Sega just decided to ditch the open, 3D-Adventure formula entirely and scrap it in favor for the more linear 3D mixed with 2D segments boost formula. Which isn’t entirely bad, since I think the boost formula games are still great (outside of Forces), but it makes me wish Sega just tried to fix what they did wrong with Sonic ‘06 rather than starting entirely from scratch, as they always tend to do.
It's been really satisfying to watch Tropical Freeze gradually build up more and more goodwill. It had so much working against it: the "DKC was never good" crowd, the "should've been Metroid" faction that appeared with its announcement, its terrible release date, the fact it was on the Wii U, and the high price of its Switch port. But it seems to slowly, steadily be getting positive attention over the years. It's this underdog success story of a video game that has been fun to follow.
Just imagine a 2D Mario game with the quality of Tropical Freeze...
bitchasshoeism What?
@bitchasshoeism Uh, the troll again. Don't pay attention people.
I was pretty upset with the price point for tropical freeze, so I waited til it went on sale, but after going to several stores, I discovered it was sold out. So I broke down and bought it full price and am having a great time playing it with my wife. Your constant raving about the game worked @GameXplain! Thanks!
Hmmm maybe I should get Tropical Freeze on the Switch.
SoraFan23 please get it, it’s such a good game man
Do it!
Definitely
Yeah, go and grab a copy of it. You might be shocked but I bought my Switch not because of Zelda Breath of the Wild or Mario Odyssey but solely for the Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze as I did not own a Wii U so didnt have chance to play it before. After playing it, it is one of the best 2d platformer of the era IMO😊
One lesson Mario Kart 8 DX can learn from DKC; Tropical Freeze: bring back Funky Kong
It's honestly rude how nobody gives Rayman legends credit. If you want a solid platformer, get it. One of my favorites. I own all three of them and Rayman is my favorite.
I definitely don't think it's rude. There are a lot of very good 2D platformers that are much better than the new super mario bros games, but that doesn't mean that you have to mention each one in a video about what donkey kong does better than new super mario bros.
TRUEN3SS 9003 Rayman Legends is a great game, the only 2D platformer that touches Tropical Freeze’s level of quality but it isn’t rude to not mention it lol
This is the type of content that this channel should be putting its weight behind.