Simulating the Evolution of Sacrificing for Family
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 พ.ค. 2024
- More than you ever wanted to know about Hamilton's rule:
users.ox.ac.uk/~grafen/cv/ose...
For discussion and updates
- Twitter: @primerlearning
- Discord: / discord
- Reddit: r/primerlearning
Plush blobs and other merch: store.dftba.com/collections/p...
Support these videos on Patreon: / primerlearning
This video is presented under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike License. More at:
creativecommons.org/licenses/...
Made with Unity and Manim
github.com/Helpsypoo/PrimerUnity
www.manim.community
Music by Mathieu Keith. For business inquiries: mathieu.keith@gmail.com
Several other inputs into the graphics are from public domain contributions to blendswap.com
Made possible by support through Patreon:
abledbody
Alba Caparros-Roissard
AlecZero
Alex Garber
ALoneCoder
Anders Fjeldvær
Andrew Lang
Andrew Panin
Angela Tam
Anthony Eufemio
Aymeric Duigou--Majumdar
Ben
Ben Kamens
Ben Komalo
Brian Cloutier
Brodie Alexander
Christian Gruber
Christopher
Christy Serbus
cooper
Cowit
Cynical Manchild
Daniel Kjellevold Steinsland
Daniel Schramm
Duncan Kight
Edono Dondolo
Eric Helps
Erik Broeders
Fabian Aisenbrey
Fabien Espanol
Flavio Kindler
Gabriele Siino
Garrett
Ghost Goat
Guguke
Jacob Luedecke
Jason Prado
Jeff
Jeff Linse
Jeremy
John Shaffstall
Jon Mundle
Jorge Arroyo
José Hamilton
Josh White
Juan Camilo Chaparro
Kairui Wang
ketura
Kevin Holesh
Kevo
Krum Valkov
Lotus Moonveil
Luc Cedric R.
Marcial Abrahantes
Matt Welke
Matthäus Pawelczyk
Matthijs Ruijgrok
Mike Schmidt
Noah
Noah Healy
OuroCat
Philipp Lanwert
Ride To Vote
Rikard Eide
Roy & BreAnna Steves
Sam Shaw
Sam Van Cise
Sean Barker
Stevie Hryciw
sunny ho
Sven Le Moine Bauer
Talon Howitt
Timothy Furman
Tobias Kienzler
Trip Might
vigo oudenaarden
Vladimir Duchenchuk
Will Robinson
Zachariah Richard Fournier
3blue1brown
![คณะขวัญใจ - นางสาวขวัญใจ [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/a8zn5pGlRUY/mqdefault.jpg)
See y'all again in a year.
lol ye
The 1 thing I learn a year
Bye
im here for ya
See ya!
You can really tell he's spent this time learning about Hamilton's rule to correct his mistake, very honourable compared to the "oops sorry anyways" we get from a lot of content creators
yeah this is what we need; amazing, high-value content on the platform!
Ikr!
yeh so many content creators are so poopy nowadays
@@blahbleh5671 ⒻⒶⒼⒼⓄⓉ
I’m just gonna put my prediction here so it doesn’t get seen so I can compare past me who didn’t see the results of the puddles having both coward and altruism and future me, the altruism get’s unlucky and sacrifices itself to all the cowards who run away or the cowards ditch their own members after that happens so altruism wins a little bit but mostly coward win well this was kinda what I thought just the line went slightly down a little more
"HONEY I'M BREAKING UP!"
"why?"
"OUR SON SACRIFICED HIMSELF BUT WE BOTH HAVE THE COWARD GENE, YOU HAVE SOME EXPLAINING TO DO"
Guys what the fuck it's a crappy joke no need to start a war
However that would mean the mother is cheating
@@whymeme5841 the mom could've been the one saying why
@@whymeme5841 According to the simulation, no. The gene can be taken from their parent.
@@CatManReal according to biology the mother will be the one giving the baby so if the father cheats the mother will know about it because it's not her son because she didn't birth him on the other hand the mother could have the baby and the father wouldn't know
@@whymeme5841 Yeah but how do you know that the father isn't the one breaking up with the mother.
4:52 i actually felt insanely bad for that poor little blob that was left in the dark without a home to go to ;-;
poor little blop
lonely blob in a dark forest scrunglo
needs a hug
RIP Blop (1845-2022)
@@Nowhereman-dk6ewblop is like 200 years old lmao
The blob really went. “Hey where you going?”
"Now let's make it more interesting by adding sexual reproduction"
Remember guys, *context can be very important!*
Yes i was told not to listen to strangers on the internet telling me anything about sexual reproduction
@@warrenarnold I literally told my childrens to look up questions about sex they are to embarrassed to ask. Obviously I told them I am hear if they have questions but just because a door is open does not mean someone will step through it. Especially when on the other side is an akward conversation with dad about god knows what. They are sharp enough to fact check information they find.
Its funny that the literal reason for our existence, hell LIFEs existance as a whole is to reproduce and yet for some reason society has made what is literally our purpose and reason for existing a Taboo subject and one a significant portion end up finding shame and mental disorders from it. Just... Weird...
@@seditt5146 why is your reply so long
@@seditt5146 forbidden fruit tastes sweeter
Aahaha very awk, ikr. What i found important is just tell kids not to accept candy from strangers, they will figure out from there. Skepticism is the lesson
@@budofchaos he likes to talk about s£*😅😂😂 *pun intended
Blob: "Hey that's a nice piece of fruit growing up there. Wonder how good-"
Plant predator: *Bonjour*
Ciao
Blobs : "Hey look, some fruit!"
Plant predators : "Allow us to introduce ourselves :)"
@David O damn I got that reference
Sveiki
Bone jaw
The blob smiling everytime he succeeds is so cute
Off course he'll smile, he's about to go do some sweet reproducing.
"It can sometimes take surprisingly long for random events to even out, which is my favorite excuse whenever I'm getting my butt kicked in a board game"
Got me rolling
3:20
Primer: thats good for the blob but not so good for our prediction. Maybe the blob its just getting lucky
Blob: *gets two 6 in a row*
Luck blob.
when the luck is sus
@Nightmarionne LUCK BOLOB
he should go into casinos
@@jadenknott
He should eat mangoes
"There's nothing wrong with understanding something in hindsight, as long as you test that understanding in new situations to make sure it holds up." Thanks for a new quote for my quote wall, and some unsolicited life advice!! :)
Amazing life advice 1000%
Great advice. 👍
i would like to know more about your quote wall please
That’s basically the scientific method!
“How hard would I have to kick a baby for it to stop crying?
"after that they go home and reproduce"
"siblings always stay together"
something tells me that there is something wrong here...
Yeah its wrong
*insert sweet home alabama music*
_Sweet Home Alabama_
AYO
SWEET HOME ALABAMA
6:13
Primer : because these blobs
Subtitles : *BOMBS YOU SAY?*
I hope that at the end of the series he combines everything together into a huge simulation.
Yea that would be cool
Maybe he has, and we are it. O___O;
We all do
We live in that simulation already
Just like an acción movie with does piranhas plants
"It can sometimes take surprisingly long for random events to even out" story of my life.
see also the blog post "That Luck Matters More Than Talent: A Strong Rationale for UBI" by philosopher Dr. Richard Carrier.
@@bpansky Rich people: "Just work hard and you'll become as rich as me."
Conservatives: "That's right! Just work hard and you'll become as rich as them. I'm not, yet I expect you to become rich."
@@bpansky Weird concept, as all UBI does it create a new baseline for broke. Money is competitive bidding overall. Also the title seems misleading, scalable talent matters more than much of anything. Even if that talent is bs'ing.
@ head over, read the full thing, check the citations, and give any criticisms to the one who wrote it, using the comment section. It's also helpful if you include your own citations if you make any real-world claims like that.
@@bpansky A basic understanding of economies should grant that knowledge tbh. It's not rocket science. But I'll go look anyway. The fact is that most articles are one sided explanations not allowing the dissection of premises, as authors tend not to like that much. But as I said, I'll go look.
Wow. This guy quotes himself as a source. I haven't seen any statistical data yet, it's more like someone just hit his ego and he's on a rant. I'll keep going in the hopes of finding gold in this trash pile, but thoroughly unimpressed so far. And ironically the computer simulation he's basing that on, and it's very close to real life results... it's because it was designed to get that result. In the real world we see advancements heavily reflected by iq up to about the 150 threshold where it becomes a negative not a positive. Hilarious to base so much while not understanding the flaw in the initial. The luck value is a reflection of iq which of course looks like luck if you don't understand the positioning to achieve "luck". Even they acknowledged skill as a major factor on top. And a UBI argument isn't valid in theirs anyway, he misunderstood the tail end of their paper. That wouldn't create more opportunity for talent anyway, just freeing up the capital lock at the top is their point, we're overrewarding scale versus talent.
And all of this measured success as though money wasn't bids for resources, the heart of the failure is right there as it's a competitive debt bidding in essence. Adding more to the pool just increases the bids. Inflation is really just this, a UBI is just adding more the to base of broke. 0 effectively becomes a slightly higher value, but is a new equivalent of 0.
Watching the single blob play the game and the graph getting marked was far more fun Than it should be.
Can we all take a second to appreciate the fact that all of his videos are in dark mode so we can enjoy them at night
I really respect how well he responded to making a mistake, even when almost none of his viewers even recognized the mistake.
Well I mean this video has over a hundred thousand views I’m sure someone noticed before the simulation started.
@@cookiecakeeater6340 *almost none*
I mean, that's kinda the point of the video
It's not all about fancy blob animations, it's about teaching.
A true gentleman of science thrives in the realisation of his mistake
More specifically, the fact that almost nobody recognized his mistake was very probably a major factor in how badly he felt out about this and how much he decided to invest in a fix. Spreading misinformation to hundreds of thousand of people is probably a special kind of nightmare to Educational Content Creators.
This was not a major part of the video though and he could have gotten away with a pinned comment. The fact that he made two videos analyzing his mistake is a nice way to know that he genuinely just wants to educate people.
I'm stealing the "It can sometimes take surprisingly long for random events to even out" excuse next time I'm losing in a game.
Same
Hippity hoppity your excuse is now my property
as a poker player I relate to this
I wish i knew how to set up simulations like this, would solve a lot of my "i wonder" scenarios.
I love how you break everything down in your videos. Each one is very informative and thorough.
Best randomly suggested creator I've gotten from TH-cam since they started doing that 😂
The hard part is that, when you control the numbers, you can decide the results.
same
Me to
You should combine all of these simulations together into one, massive, super sim and see what happens
The diploid genetics would show a more realistic and varied simulation as well as more types of alleles, I would really like that!
not sure how he would deal with heterogeneous individuals tho
@@turtlememes2334 he'd have to decide which allele was dominant. Or there'd be a 50-50 chance. 3 possible simulations to try.
The diploid model isn't linked to how many alleles there are, is it? You may still just have two, but you can have a form where you might have both of them.
So what might happen, is that you get one selfish and one altruistic copy and then the question is how that changes expression.
It might end up being a dominance thing where having one of the variants means you fully express that,
or it might be some sort of percentage thing where you simply change the chance of, in this case, yelling,
or a third thing might happen, like a specific gene in certain mice that changes fur color from grey to beige if they have one copy, but if they have *two* copies the mouse is stillborn.
The explanation for why that can possibly work is because that make beige mice rarer and so predators are less likely to specialize in spotting them, so they are more likely to survive, apparently. Enough so that it seems to outweigh the lost number in offspring
But at any rate, it's possible to have just two alleles even in diploid genetics. The thing that might increase is the number of phenotypes (there might be three phenotypes with just two alleles of a gene, one of which happens if you have both alleles)
@@malaineeward5249 50%, the kind coward gene. 50% chance to run and 50% chance to stay. It'd make more sense and more dynamic than, say, if you have a mixed set, there's a 50% chance you'll end up as either.
Which should be dominant tho
i like how the blob is just throwing the dice and not rolling it
Yeeting for best results
the dice is like half the size of him
it also never rolled a five. very peculiar!
I just want the animation of the blob throwing the dice on loop for 1 hour it’s so cute
Maybe blobs are secretly all 3 year olds
“You gotta try to prove yourself wrong” something a lot of people (me included) should do more often
Same. I’m too full of myself. :’)
These videos are so inspiring when it comes to teaching and learning. Thanks for making these. No matter how long they take, I'll always look forward to watching them.
I would love a website where you can just run all of the simulations made by Primer, and you could also change the modifiers and stuff
The simulations are made in blender. I believe he has a download link for each one of them. Blender is free too
@@Marco-yk8kp epic
I also think minute earth made their own version of it
Ikr 😩
@@Marco-yk8kp He says that he uses Manim and Unity in the description
I think it would be interesting to introduce the mechanic of friendship. Like two blobs eat on the same tree and survive, they happen to be acquaintances. If that happens again, they become friends, increasing the chance to save each other after approaching a predator.
Wow thats actually a really good idea!
And they may help each other out if one of them got food then they could share instead of leaving the friend go hungry
memento mori
Also, the mechanic of enemies. Blobs that pretend to be friends only to let you get eaten, so that they can survive.
@@spliffspiegel834 nice
You're great at explaining complex terms. When I start your video in the middle I completely don't know what you're talking about. But when I start at the beginning and listen closely it's sooo easy to follow.
I'm a biologist and I simply love your videos. They are really informative and easy to understand!
I've used them in class when I was working as a teacher and my students also loved them.
Being a subscriber of Primer and Code Bullet is a constant cycle of being super happy when they upload then slowly forgetting they exist until the next upload and the cycle repeats :D
Oh code bullet exists
Same, speaking of, I think its been so long the algorithm might have forgotten I enjoy Code Bullet
* *rushes off* *
Homberguy and Lemino also takes half a year to upload their videos. Through I can’t complain about their quality and research.
We just need more people like this so we will get happy bursts more often :D
Yes
3:33 legend has it the original blob has never gotten a 5 to this day…
Yeah that was some wonky randomness :D
a == rand(1-6);
if (a = 5)
{
dont();
}
else {
return a
}
@@user-dt8fr4up6j lol
bro love your video. As a computer engineer with massive interest in observing wildlife, these videos are just gems. Please don't stop.
This was really well executed and explained! I did figure out beforehand the alleles would be evenly matched, but my explanation for it was kind of off and your explanation was much clearer, with the "not identical by descent" chance not having an effect. It made sense after thinking about it for a couple of minutes. Interesting how a somewhat complicated set of variables condenses into such a tidy rule.
Primer’s simulations, animations, and evidence is strong. But not as strong as family
"you dont turn your back on family"
yeah
“Everywhere I go I see his face” 😔🤰
"SAY FAMILY AGAIN I DARE YOU"
I can’t wait to revisit this video in like 4 years and see this comment and have absolutely no idea what it means.
_That’s right, future me, I’m speaking to you. I know what this means and you don’t. Loser_
As a scientist myself, I appreciate you not only showing your mistakes, but explaining your analysis of your mistake. Such an important part of the scientific process.
Very true! Thinking is the skill most needed and least taught early in life.
Fixing screwups makes you smart.
Admitting to them in detail makes you *smart.*
Reminds me of a quote I hear "the difference between science and screwing around is writing it down". You learn at least as much from mistakes as you do success.
Tbh i dont come here for the equations i only come here because of the possibilities of simulation and just seing cute bloobs being simulated
@@amazinggrace5692 schools dont want children to think anymore
I love the blobs! they so cute and having them finally react to what your saying as if they are hearing you is great! Also I'm just really curious about this topic so please keep it up.
no you arent
It's funny, I had a totally different expectation as to how the simulation would fail to meet expectations. A similar idea, but based in the logic of the simulation, not the underlying math.
See, within a puddle, an altruistic blob will kill themselves to save the rest of their group, while a cowardly blob becomes sole survivor. This means that every time a puddle encounters a predator, either:
1. an altruist dies, and altruists survive
or
2. an altruist dies, and a mixed group survives
or
3. an altruist dies, and cowards survive
or
4. cowards die, and a coward survives
My hypothesis was that, since the only time a coward dies is when there are no altruists in the group at all, the coward population has better odds of propagation. Every time an altruist pairs with a coward, but all three offspring are also cowards, the coward population surges up in the next generation, whether that group encounters a predator or not.
However, this explanation is also incomplete, since I neglected the fact that every pure puddle pairing results in either one altruist death or four coward deaths, a huge disparate number. It turns out that there's an extreme level of variance in the simulation's output for early generations, which results in the broad range of outputs in the video.
In a simulation where the first generation mostly pairs like with like, the bias _should_ favor altruists from then on out, as the second gen altruists have a much higher survival rate. By contrast, if the early generations of the simulation mostly form mixed couple puddles, there should be more altruist deaths than coward deaths overall, unless we see a disproportionately low amount of one altruist four coward puddles.
Due to the swingy nature of the early generation's impact on the whole, and the complex series of circumstances that need to happen for either gene to eclipse the other, I'd be really interested to see what this simulation looks like with much larger starting populations. It would be also be worth experimenting with a bias for altruists to pick altruist partners and cowards to pick coward partners, or to enforce that blobs pair off to reproduce at a fixed rate relative their share of the total population, rather than leaving it to pure chance. If trying to represent a large population, either the puddle families are split geographically and more likely to mingle with their own kind purely based on relative location, or the gene is spread more evenly, and a fixed ratio would do better to estimate whole populations dramatically larger than the sample size.
I ain't reading allat🔥🔥🔥💯💯💯
I guess we didn't have the same perception of the mechanics of this simulation. How I read it, one of the blobs at random from the puddle was picked to notice the plant (if one was present). With that reading, you would be able to have a cowardly blob die if you have two cowardly blob and an altruistic blob, where the other cowardly blob notices the plant and runs away. For my calculations, I have said that plants live in 50% of the trees. If we list the expected survival composition of a puddle born to specific parents as (a, c) where a = surviving altruists and c = surviving cowards, we would get:
(C, C) -> (0, 2)
(C, A) -> (1, 1.25)
(A, C) -> (1, 1.25)
(A, A) -> (2.5, 0)
If we average these out, we get an expected value of (1.125, 1.125), and would therefore expect the populations to remain equal (which seems to be what the average shows in the video and what the analysis with Hamilton's Rule seems to suggest).
Doing the same calculations, but stipulating that a cowardly blob can only be the one to spot the plant if no altruist is present, we would instead get the numbers:
(C, C) -> (0, 2)
(C, A) -> (1.0625, 1.375)
(A, C) -> (1.0625, 1.375)
(A, A) -> (2.5, 0)
This would average out to around (1.156, 1.188), very slightly in favour of the cowardly blobs. Since we are limited by housing, I have also normalized these values to (0.987, 1.013), so given enough time, we would expect the altruistic blobs to finally die out in that situation, but considering how close to 1 both values are, I would expect it to take a while.
WELCOME BACK ❤️
Thanks!👍
Pog
Thanks :)
@@PrimerBlobs glad you uploaded again!
I missed him ♥️
I LOVE that you kept a mistake in, and used it as a fantastic tool for teaching instead of a failure. It really helped me understand this
not the first time, he shows at least a modified theatricized path of his own learning process in all his videos
that one blob had dream luck
Looking forward to the next video, these are just so extremely fascinating!
I love your content! Its such a cool thing to listen to during a homework session.
"Simulating the Evolution of Sacrificing for Family" *Dom's smiles in the distance*
I got no friends, i got family
@@diavolojaegar I also have family. Wanna be family friends? Friend family? Family?
@@mincat2472 Family-Friendly
@@DygresywnyWilk family frenzy
@@lancechristophermambo2285 incest
“Now let’s add sexual reproduction to make it more interesting” is a god-tier line
That fits in every context
@@hasargel sometimes not in a good way but it will fit
oh f*ck... literally
@@LilacMonarch it might take a bit of force, but it can fit.
*_said god_*
I can't wait to see the next part of this series. I find these videos really interesting
not big on wathcing these school type things but some how this was on my feed and its honestly soothing in a way ur voice and way of explaing is great!
When a factual video starts off with a disclaimer reflecting on how they could’ve done better on their research, and what parts of the discussion aren’t covered by their research, you know it’s gonna be a good ass video
* This video just tells that the difference between games that good team understand sacrifice of support, and when will the other don't then be dead. ( From League of Legends ) *
@@Dae-Ying-Kim12345 If it's only the support making sacrifices, it probably isn't a good team.
The other side of dunning kruger
@DracoDominus As a league player we call this term “werf”, doesn’t matter if u die, only if u get a lead from it
Primer makes a mistake. Most would ignore it and move on. Primer shows he’s a responsible educator by apologizing and explaining his mistake, promising to do better. The few respectable you tubers would end there. Primer dedicates himself to mastering this area he made a mistake in and then proceeds to start teaching advanced courses in that area. MY MAN!
truely mad respect to him man
Yes, i love these kinds of people. Showing all the ups and downs. There is a game dev called Vimlark who does game jams, he is always showing his mistakes and how he can improve next time
here before just a guy without a mustache
Couldn’t have better said it myself!
He did mention it…the last point before the add
These videos are so well made and interesting! Can’t wait to see more!:D
i literally just found this channel today and i’m love with the blobs they’re so cute 😭😭😭
This channel has taught me more about evolution than all of my biology classes combined
then your biology classes must really have sucked
@@byel2844 ah, it's a common theme on Internet to diss on school classes, be it justified or not. It gets likes.
why do you have an amogus pfp
oh nevermind
@Flyin' Steve life is pain
"Which allele do you think will win?"
"Cowardly."
"Remember that siblings stick together."
"ALTRUISM I CHANGE MY MIND"
@@M-channel111 ??????????
being coward is strong, but not as strong as family
Family is strong
But not as strong as family.
- Dom
@@M-channel111 Be better in English, I don’t understand.
I don’t like math, but the way you explain it just soothes the soul. Love it man
10:50 I truly love that blobs enthusiasm. He’s really getting into it.
10:56pm NZST
9 September 2022
"My reasoning is flawless. I never do a mistake. Let allone put it on youtube" nice self shading. Also the blob's yelling animation is cute as all heck
I am the most famous man on YouTub! This is not bragging! This is the truth! The truth will set you free, dear osm
@@AxxLAfriku osm?
@@Liliana_the_ghost_cat on some marijuana
@@lick28 is this accutualy true?
@@Liliana_the_ghost_cat no
It's been a while, excited for this one! It's hard to find content like yours on TH-cam.
Get this comment to the Top :)
No
No
try Particular Mushroom
So good, so rare
Thank you so much for going into such detail so even a layman can understand. Great to share with friends!
When I was watching the blob throw the dice while you were calculating the probability, I had this imagery of the blob in the box throwing the dice and being happy when it got six, and then looking over to see its dad/creator off to the side writing down numbers on a massive whiteboard. I don't know why the image of that is so cute to me, but it is.
Since we saw cowardice and altruism, I would be curious to see the breakdown for the blobs fighting against the predators, some who survive and some who are physically capable of overwhelming it, or even defeating the predator through teamwork
@@matthewallen9072 or maybe have strength be genetic!
So two pairs of two alles? With each competing alle being on a spot on the same axis? So 1) = Coward vs Assessor vs Altruistic & 2) = Strong vs Fit vs Weak. Then test to see if impacting other alles & vice versa affect gene domination?
@@MrInternetHermit that would make sense tbh
There could be a speed one too, where the blobs have a chance to escape after alerting about predators
I misread the title as "Sacrificing the family" and I was worried the evolution simulation was going a bit too far
New upload by Primer: "Simulating Genocide in the Blob Societies"
@@barash3603 All hail Xiuhtecuhtli!
same lmao
Bruh same
Legit same
Id love to see some simulations surrounding the idea of social capital, I know it would be difficult to figure out how but as a sociologist it would be incredible to see.
Something like different groups (societies?) of blobs having a social capital score with a chance each increment for a blob group to gain or loose social capital (representing social change), the social capital score would increase the likelihood each individual blob would sacrifice itself for the fellow blobs in its group/society, and demonstrate how this effects these blob societies over time.
It works in a similar way as this simulation then then if you're saying the bigger number of social capital= more altruism in this case
@@randomlygeneratedname in a sense yes
I've been getting this recommendation for a year or so and finally, i said yes to see it darn it. It was worth it 😅
Primer: "on a fair die..."
Me: _looks at the graph_ "yeah, sure"
Randomness is lumpy.
I'm kinda curious, are you a behavioral scientist with a hobby for programming, or a programmer with a hobby for behavioral science? Because either way I'm completely impressed. Keep up the good work, mate.
Bruh he isn't alone
He has a team
@@jonathanSpg still.
@@jonathanSpg source?
@@jonathanSpg shouit
@@jonathanSpg bruhhhh
this is the second vid I gave a like to in my 3 and a half years of watching yt vids :) hope u keep making great vids :)
This dudes channel got me to pass my biology class…
Love it!!!!
I'd like to explore the diploid situation with the question of what effects having both alleles would have considering things like trait dominance or co-dominance.
+1
@Dafork_gaming Well, it’s always a win for the blobs in general since being altruistic saves 2 at the cost of 1 but it’s can be a loss for the altruists since they can either lose one of their members to save 2 cowards blobs, either win if they lose one of their member to save two altruistic blobs or lose one altruist to save another altruist and a coward, making saving others a gamble for them.
And you can’t use the fact that the cowards lose nothing since, if we take the number of this allele’s carriers in consideration, escaping when the two others are also cowards is the best for the individual, since they always survive, but it’s not the best for the allele since the blob’s comportement cost the life of two others carriers to save his own even if he could save both in exchange for his life.
Moreover, in real life, it’s also depends on the situation since the probabilities can be altered by a number of factors (for the altruists, if they are lucky or in good physical condition, they can yell without being eaten, depending of the situation, they can save more or less life with more or less risks, likewise, for the cowards, they doesn’t always have 100% to escape, they can even be in a situation where nobody can escape if nobody sacrifice himself to make diversion, so, if there’s only cowards, they all die) and also, it’s rarely as simple as that, even cowards can probably help to save someone if they isn’t any risks and altruists will not always save someone if it can cost the life of more people than it save (especially if there isn’t a great chance to save these people without anybody dying)
You could do it with more than just two genes, say you did it with ten different genes, giving a percentage chance of doing an action. So if one of the blobs has more altruistic genes rather than cowardly genes, then they have a percentage chance of choosing either altruism or cowardice. And you could have a percentage chance of altruism getting every blob killed anyways, depending on the predators. Say a predator kills a blob, then the predator could have a percentage chance to evolve to try and kill more, or a chance to become lazier and end up not killing anything if an altruist were to tell the other blobs of the predator.
@@clumpus2012 If we go down this road, we also need to simulate a lot of different things like the learning of the creatures with experience(blobs and predators), their level of skill (compare the one of the blobs vs the one of the predator to know the pourcentage of chance the blob end up killed), maybe the share of knowledge, the evolution of their civilisation and a lot of others things to really compare it to the real world so it’s not really worth it in this case. For example, with the 10+ genes, introduce more complexity at the genetic level will not suffice since not only there’s a part of innate but also a part of experience/education in this sort of decision.
An interesting thing to look into would be cases where saving others also end up saving harmful genes that objectively lower the chance of survival, knowingly or otherwise.
Morality and ethics aside, it would be an interesting experiment.
It kinda happened with the alleles in this one, since your siblings are kind of random, so since you sacrifice yourself for them. You can save cowardly alleles.
But as we saw, with an even number of participant and an even chance of survival, on average it evens out.
Isn't that just the prisoners dilemma with someone trusting?
Let's say there's 2 alleles, one who always cooperates, one who always betrays. By cooperating with a betrayer you make the whole population worse off.
@@corentincaspers8229 no the siblings are identical
@@peripheralzx11 Did you not watch the whole video? Later in the video both genes have a 50% chance to be in the offspring in sexual reproduction
@@concoct_ion my bad
These videos demonstrate high causal density and how it quickly goes from basic understanding to spinning you wheels in the mud even at the most basic levels.
Wish you could share with us the code used in this video, so much knowledge involved! Congrats, you've got a new subscriber.
*The Blobs Are Amazing.*
I hate doge
@@bobisafish4983 Ok
Bloob
Whenever you see this thing "+" in a probability calculation, make sure to triple check your work
Even more if it's a gambling one
Made that mistake, lost my house
@@warrenarnold you lost your house? i lost my life!
@@randomthings8732 damnit brother, feel happy to have respawned, thats really improbable in real life
this blob business is getting addictive, I binge your videos.
Simulations makes these so much more understandable and real to me!
It might also be interesting to introduce the possibility of recognizing relatives. As far as I know this happens a lot of different ways in the wild, but in humans we get a little more complicated due to "psuedokinship" where we consider people who aren't blood relatives as brothers or sisters.
The science of racial favouritism
ie people who we subconsciously understand to be genetically similar, who, if we help, we will be passing in more of our genes than someone who is dissimilar.
The way the sim was running this was already the case. The blobs were only going out and hunting with their siblings.
@@Lankpants Note the comment- "recognizing relatives"- not siblings- and "'psuedokinship' where we consider people who aren't blood relatives as brothers or sisters".
this implies having more people on a blob's radar, so it's no longer just the 2 blood siblings displayed already.
@R. L. G. "The science of racial favouritism" Mostly. Though it would require next step and going in to group level selection when one would clash with another group of blobs for resources. In top level simulation it require positive (cooperate with your kin) and negative (fight outsiders) ethnocentrism plus mechanism for disciplining/eliminating disloyal group members.
When he asked if the viewer could figure out the flaw, the first thing that came to my mind was:
You forgot about the cowards, who are going to let possible altruistic blobs die.
That was my thought as well.
Ye same I thought that the cowards would let cowards live every time while altruism could be helping cowards or ealtrisms lowering the chance
Cowards will not mate because other blobs know they will be betrayed
@@plexiglasscorn that’s entirely incorrect lmao
@@grelkie i know 😂
13:25 It honestly took me over half an hour trying to understand what I missed until I remembered you allowed us to point hindsights xD
I think the hindsight here is that this formula only defines the probability for a single instance of a reward when the reward out of this action varies from 0 to 2 (both siblings inherit from non-orange parent / both siblings inherit from blue parent)
Basing from the probable results of being altruistic, it's a coin flip so the graph should maintain balance.
I got it somewhat right :D
This is literally teaching me more in 20 minutes than my teachers did in 11 years. Tysm! This is so interesting.
Wanted to see the balanced run of the "95% death chance", where the others have the same chance to survive, if they aren't warned.
If *everyone* has a chance to survive without warning or only the cowards?
If there is 95% on both sides it would result in the same with the 100% chance.
But the random possible extinction would take longer than with 100% chance.
Also if there is 95% on one side, it will have the same result as what was shown with the altruistic behavior.
At least, in theory.
Imagine he combines them all into one godly life simulator, here's some ideas:
1. Starts out with the blobs fighting for food and evolving, landscapes will change how much food places have, some blobs will help the other get food or save them from danger with a chance to get hurt and when no food is left they fight or split it, ones working together could help fight off attackers.
2. After there's a dominate species in all the 'regions' they build houses and civilizations with leaders, still fighting over food in areas with less blobs. Some open shops and maybe fight over land and resources. Maybe some leaders/civilizations could have different economic laws that change how many businesses there are, how much they make, and how they feel about the leader. Perhaps add in rebellions?
3. Stops when everyone dies or one country rules all.
Yeah that got kinda complicated but imagine how cool it'd be! Feel free to add some in replys or correct something.
like the other commenter said, we'd need something to the effect of blob war simulation
Yeah, it would be insane
Eventually we could make a simulation that literally ends up being an alternate reality of our world-- Different things happening, different people, but still Earth.
I dont get why everyone always assumes that humanity must naturally be competitive...
We are by nature a social species, that only managed to survive and progress through COOPERATION and DESPITE the constant anti-social behavior of a single minority
We, as the united race of humanity, have nothing else to desire and to strive for than the total association of the free human, based on mutual help and the common fight against our common enemy
This could be a series, since some topic arent covered.
The sacrificing blob sure seems to be too happy while yelling for someone who is about to die
Because he has no sense of value other than protecting his siblings
I don't mind admitting that this is the first of your videos that lost me. I totally need to rewatch it and probably a few times!
Actually, alerting others and getting eaten is more similar to screams victim makes before getting eaten. Not intentional altruism but systemic altruism nonetheless.
In such sense, the result where altruism dominates cowardice almost completely is true because people would normally scream when meeting a danger, excepting special occasion where one is trained not to.
Screaming is not necessarily altruism, it could be to call for help.
irl maybe it can backfire, like someone screaming reveals where others are hiding, or getting more (altruistic) people over to help them, putting them in danger.
@@nicolew4710 but it could also gain you help from people who pass by.
@@nicolew4710
Perhaps, but most predators prefer to ambush, so they REALLY don’t want the extra attention
Many many many many animals that are not social, and have no expectation anyone is going to come to the rescue, still have the urge to scream when in pain instead of saving their breath to fight/flee with. Animals may do this to startle a predator, but a definite systemic-altruism bonus involved is that any animal of the same species nearby who hears the scream is gonna book it away from whatever hurt them, and potentially avoid danger. Hell, animals of other species will bum off some of that altruism and run, too.
A breakdown on how you program the simulations in Unity would be pretty cool
I want this so much. I really want to put this into some kind of excel or matlab "simulation" that would generate but I always feel like the imagination/creative portion of it shoots me down. I'd love a behind the scenes look!
love your videos, very interesting ideas. I can not wait to see the future videos :D. Keep going. I would like to support as much as I can :)). Keep going :D
When i dont even know anything, I still like this content.
Keep It Up!
One thing that strikes me when I try to link this simulation to actual nature, is that organisms that display this kind of behaviour irl have tons of offspring and live in large groups, like rabbits or meerkats (meerkats actually yelp and rabbits pound the ground with their feet). This would give the "sacrifice" behaviour a higher expected payout than the blobs, who only produce 3 offspring at a time.
Either that or they tend to be more social species that have other ways to detect and avoid animals that don't abide by social norms like acting fairly and cooperatively. This tends to be the case with a lot of larger mammals that have small litter sizes for example. There the benefits of the uncooperative behaviour are often mitigated socially by limiting access to group resources, mating opportunities or even abandoning members of the group that do not cooperate. But then I guess this is in a sense a really developed system for detecting group members that have or don't share those genes. And it is something of an evolutionary arms race there since this requires a brain capable of a fairly complex theory of mind which itself opens up a new strategy for cheating the system since this is both the very thing you can iterate on to develop deception and a selection pressure for that to be beneficial.
As the other person has said, in real life the behavior would also be beneficial to groups of animals that have very few offspring, because if they don't help each other to survive they could straight up just go extinct if the only offspring is lost for example.
@@TheSilverwing999 Hamilton's rule posits that the benefits of altruism increase with the number of offspring. You would expect that the rate of altruism decreases with smaller "puddles" of children.
3:30 that blob didn’t roll 5 a single time in 25 roles which has slightly less than a 1.05% chance of happening.
Yeah, it was weird, but the long-run results were fine.
These videos are incredibly informative. I really appreciate you work man and the hard work you put in. But I have a question tho. How do you make the simulations? Not the videos, like the simulations. Giving attributes to the blobs, setting environment rules and then run the simulation for few generations. How do you do it??
I love ur blobs they make me happy
With only Altruistic Allele, everyone eventually gets stuck in a ”No, you first” loop.
And thats how Canada came into being
Plot twist: They yell at the same time, which confuses the predator allowing all 3 blobs to survive.
Request: could you do “simulating teamwork and defense”
There are 5 blobs on each side of a court, 1 red side and 1 blue side, at the beginning, they will pick a ball, if a blob gets hit, they’ll have to go to the waiting bench, they have 2 roles on each team, the teammates and the defenders, the defender can block a ball and not get out, but they can get hit after 3 blocks, if 1 team loses, the simulation ends
Those things dont work, ask arsenal. You need a little bit of a selfish striker in your team
@@warrenarnold The thing with Arsenal is they always try to walk it in.
that's actually a good idea!!!
Weeeo
Please post more I like watching these
Evolution reacted to the effects of the "prisoner's game' implications that are inherent in any universe with TIME. Aka, as long as you live in a universe where time exists, cooperative strategies are more likely to return higher yields. One of the few things that truly makes me love our universe
10:11 Its pretty fitting to stick with haploid organisms for this video, seeing as bees, who show basically the extreme version of this behavior, are also haploid.
No no, bees are a more complicated case. They aren't haploid, they're haplodiploid: the males (drones) are haploid and the females (queens and workers) are diploid. This means that all bee siblings inherit the same genes from their father's part, therefore the average relatedness between them is 75% instead of the usual 50%. This means they share more genes with their siblings than with their parents. Worker bees are sterile, but by taking care of their fertile siblings they technically contribute more to the survival of their genes than by having offsprings on their own.
@@matyaskassay4346 Riiiiight thats how it was.
I thought I remembered there being some other stuff that complicated things but couldnt quite recall what it was.
"We just finished conquering the galaxy using the newly discovered warp drive device!"
*I sleep*
"Primer uploaded a new video"
*REAL SHIT*
Yeah, this is definitely another case of news outlets hyping up something they don't really understand.
@@imveryangryitsnotbutter Don’t get the joke...
@@wileymcgraw5511 You don't get the joke? Okay, I'll explain; there have been some recent news articles claiming that we've developed a warp drive in real life. But as usual for pop science articles, reporters have taken a kernel of truth (scientists have revised the theoretical limits on FTL travel based on new understanding of quantum mechanics), and blown it out of proportion (we've invented a warp drive and the whole galaxy is now ours to command).
I get his joke, I didn’t get yours, hence the « @I’m Very... »
You should add all behaviors established to this point every so often to truly make it as complex and realistic as possible
Very clever simulation. Great for understanding
Primer: “Today we’ll look into that with Hamilton’s Rule”
*Intense Vietnam flashbacks*
What?
What
@@sylicewinter2893 the channel had a now taken down video debunking and being confused over hamilton's rule, until he realized he was wrong and deleted the video
Edit: yes he addressed his mistake in a video
@@kirtil5177 that shows him a bit of injustice because he addressed it while ur comment seemed like he didnt but yeah
@@kirtil5177 bruh that’s f*cked up :(
"I know all about sacrificing for Family." - Dom Toretto
Just the comment I was looking 4
I ended up blurting out loud "Damn, altruism's putting up a FIGHT!" - very good and entertaining explanations all around (coming from someone for whom Biology never really clicked as a subject).