3D Printing to Metal Casting/Lost PLA
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 พ.ย. 2016
- 3d printing a rotor out of PLA and using the lost PLA method to metal cast it in aluminum. This was the first time I had tried lost PLA and it turned out great. Now I typically use Machinable Wax's Print2Cast wax filament for my casting due to its low temperature and clean burn out. See the link below if your interested.
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See my other lost PLA Casting videos and use of Wax Filament, links in the description.
ProjectTube Great job! Extra thumbs up.
John L Bales I'm working on a video now where I'm designing, 3d printing and casting a carburetor part I lost, should be a cool video. Hopefully upload it this weekend.
how come you didn't just pour the metal into the mold without burning out the plastic?
VOLCANO! BOOM!
It would? what if you printed it hollow with thicker walls?
As a Dental technician i made many casts and i have some ideas for you^^.
Mount your object upside-down on your surface.
Give it a light angle to avoid trapping air under the object and lastly
make the entrance cone shaped to make it easy to poor.
Also put in vent holes in any chambers that have points, the air got trapped in the fins and had no where to go. So a small hole on the top of each fin would have made for a better cast.
turb0m0nk3y Also, 3d print the sprue & pour channels!
Thanks for sharing your wisdom.
Cool to see someone take something from concept through to 3D printing and then an actual item like this. Neat way to do the casting, too, never seen that before with the plaster for a mold instead of sand.
Learned some new stuff here. Thanks!
This is a great presentation. You've shown the simplest way to cast usable parts from PLA that I've seen, and your video edit is great to get it to 5 or so interesting minutes. I'm sure the raw data was hours. Fantastic job!
it's so amazing what can be accomplished in a home shop these days! looks awesome!
Nice video, that was clever how you put plaster in the hole before the rest of the plaster. I plan on trying my hand at lost pla casting eventually.
Great result! Having seen some others attempt this, I was put off by the possibility of shrinking/distortion. But this doesn't seem to be a problem here at all! I'll definitely try this. Thanks for the video!
Thanks for posting! I learned a lot from this. For instance to print over-sized so as to have extra for final machining and finishing. Also that you can do Lost PLA without having to do wax. To try and degas beforehand. Yes most helpful!
Good tips! Especially the part about packing the mold in sand to reduce the cracking potential. I cast in pewter, only 700 degrees, but still a useful idea!
Thanks for putting in the effort to make this happen. I enjoyed watching, and I learned something.
Brilliant video mate, very concise!
that was beautiful, great work!
Amazing stuff! Glad I finally discovered your channel.
well done! I suggest you some tips 1:smothing the pla object before using it like template leading to a smother surface of metal object 2:putting the ceramic plaster mixture on a fitness vibration plate or under a vacuum bell with these ways it is possible to remove the air bubble meaning no defect on the final object surface 3: use a conical shape ducts casting in order to avoid air incusion during coulee.
Great problem solving techniques.
Hi ProjectTube, thanks for the video. I am putting a 3D printer together and have a speedy melt forge. So very soon I am going learn how to make both of them work together. Thanks for the video - Al
Awesome! I look forward to seeing some of your projects!
Nice job! How close to final size was the part once you got it ground off? Any shrinkage issues with the metal?
cheers for that, good guide there.
well done props!
Excellent!
Thank you
Great job!
Well done man, if you have no prior casting knowledge be proud.
I worked at a graphite and cast iron mould shop for 5 years and one thing you can do with more intricate parts is drill small holes like a 1/16th inch around casting pieces that have trouble filling. you can then fill these holes with small 1/16 plugs with two flat sides this allows air to vent but won’t allow metal through. Or if you don’t mind cutting off more gating you don’t have to plug the holes,.
Another good tip is try not to double pour the part, in the video you luckily got a good hard pour to begin with which is what filled the part. If you have a bigger part try to pour it hard in one go.
very cool tho, gave me some good ideas as well. Thanks
Awesome man. 👍
Intriguing; I hadn't thought about the lost-plastic process. With luck, you remembered toscale the plastic version up by a percentage appropriate for the metal's thermal expansion coefficient.
insightful Thanks a bunch
Very nice video! i thought i would be needing a wax type fillament wir this.
I guess i could be pouring parts tomorrow :)
Great Information thanks for sharing
I have similar ideas, but to use wax filament instead, but it is very expensive as compared to PLA. I am not familiar with what settings the 3D printer needs as far as temperature and such for that filament, so there is a financially steep learning curve involved, but I am confident the finish of the object would be much cleaner once everything is sorted out. Not that your project turned out bad, but I suspect that PLA might leave some impurities in the cast. Thanks for sharing your work as in inspiration here on the tube.
3D printing to cast metal is cool and useful for bizarre geometries and models... such a simple part can be CNC machined easily to get waaaay better tolerances
How much is a CNC vs a 3d printer again?
How much did you spend in aluminum, casting material, fuel, filament and most importantly how much of your free time did this take? Was it worth the rough final tolerance? I'm not saying go buy a cnc milling machine, i'm saying go have it machined in your local workshop or use an online service like weerg.com, they make the piece for you on ultra-high tolerances 5-axis machines and ship it in a few days... for roughly the price of the material itself. Of course this holds only for mechanical parts, when it comes to complicated models (not replicable by parallel-plane milling) casting is a way more effective choice.
that's the point i was trying to make
Hmm... There are people who have fun trying things they or most others haven't done before. Playing with fire, plaster, water, hammers and molten metal and creating something, useful or not, can be fun. I think that is the main reason why people do that. And teaching others how they did that proliferates that fun factor. I enjoyed viewing that video. There are many ways to skin a cat, or to scan a kid, and each of us is free to go his or her way.
Have to say, this was very helpful and interesting to watch, so thank you for that :)
However, I would like to know a little bit more about that heating process. So, how long do you usually heat up that mold to get the PLA out of it? And at what temperature? And can you cast onto those molds if there are any residue remaining (and what will happens if you do that)?
Use Shapeways and have them 3d print the part from steel/bronze with the DMLS process. It's not cheap, but you can save money by designing your parts to have holes/reliefs in them to reduce the amount of material being used. We use them all the time for printed steel parts - much less hassle than casting.
Very watchable vid. Im learning about this process but I think I'd use re-usable compressed SAND around the PLA object to create a finely detailed and re-usable casting mould, or, if the Part lends itself to this, a 2-part sand+plaster mould means you can easily try again (or make mulltiples) if the casting does't work out perfectly 1st time, using the same Original.
Nice video, thank you.
Great to watch :)
Nicely made video and useof 3d printer. So the pla just dissapears without residue so it seems. Thanks for the idea/s
One tip: stack couch cushions around whatever you are using to record your voice. This will increases the quality by a lot. It works quite well for me.
That's great for a little project at home when you only need 1
Awesome!!
Wow nice!!!
Nie work!
I believe what happened to the top of your cast is caused by shrinkage between the liquidus and the solidus, it could be avoided next time by adding a feeder to the top of your cast (which could replace your vent holes)
Super Awesome
awesome!!!
Nice!
Did you do tests on where the borders of this method are for an amateur in terms of detail size, shapes, feasibility? Ceramic casts should be possible too...
I'll be doing two intake manifolds for my bike, how much did it shrank? is it noticeable?
what was you infill settings on this ? nice work thanks for sharing.
most people seem to get a bunch of ash that does no give you a nice smooth surface. How did you get the ash out? thanks
That inadvertent indentation at the top must have created a mass-imbalance.. How did you balance the rotor so that it would not vibrate and damage the bearings? With a custom-cast lead counterweight inserted into a drilled hole into the opposite side of the rotor?
Do you think this is my best method to make a 56 tooth gear? I’m having trouble with my green sand sticking to the gear teeth.
Most gears are machined. If you had to cast it I would do vacuum casting. I have a whole series of videos where I tried casting functional gears using this method and it ultimately failed.
aha, lathe and cnc is the way to go. Perfect balancing of the stator is required or you'll end up replacing the bushing / bearings more often than you'd like to.
REALLY REALLY COOL! I've wondered before if this was possible but didn't think it would burn out clean enough for casting... guess that answers THAT question! ^_^
Thanks John! Glad you enjoyed it!
can't you use the pla part directly as the rotor. there might me deformation with temperature but it's worth a try right??
can we use only plaster of paris as an moulding process ?
is it possible to make the casting split so you don't have to break it and be able to reuse it?
what is the temperature and time to burn out lost pla mould...
Thanks for the insight into this process. When you assemble your videos it'd be ideal if you reduced the volume of the video audio track (the sound of the furnace?) to make it easier to hear the narration track.
+Sean Smith thanks for the input, this was the first time I used that video editing software. Is there a way I can re-upload this video after fixing the sound without it being a whole new video? Anyone know how to do that?
Unfortunately, I've heard that's not possible. They should really find a way to make it possible for minor edits but maybe that's impossible (I guess they need to prevent abuse/replacement with a whole new video).
That's pretty cool! A few questions, have you tried 'painting' on the plaster mixture on the outside of the part like you did for the center hole to get a better finish, and then adding it to the larger mold, to do sort of a 'beauty coat'?
And have you tried/considered using 'green sand' instead of plaster? Does the plaster provide a better surface finish?
Paul Pardee thanks! I do paint on the plaster for certain models. check out some of my other casting videos. There are pros and cons to green sand vs plaster. I do find that plaster produces better details but it depends on the quality of green sand your using.
If you want to make your generator more efficient then you should replace the aluminum with iron.
At least mount your magnets on an iron tube, this will greatly increase the magnetic flux since iron has a high magnetic permiability, unlike aluminum, which is a slight diamagnetic.
Anyways, good luck.
Poptart McJelly
Except iron is super hard to melt
You should also note, that you need to make the part about 3% larger than full size to account for metal shrink once it's finished cast. Every metal is a little different, but Aluminum is 3%.
I wonder if this process would be made easier by printing the parts entirely in a water soluble material. it may burn out easier or smoother.
What mixes do you make?
way cool thanks
Why not desolve the PLA with water? Is it so you don't add extra moister to the plaster?
Use jewelers investment plaster for casting. It will give a much better surface finish. Bubbles will be less if you use a brush and apply debubblizer allow to dry then put a thin coat of plaster on the part. Let it set up ,when then mix up the rest and pour. do the rest the same i hope that will help.
how about shrinkage? Wasn't that an issue?
water soluble filament is perfect for making mold.
@ 4:15 you say that it didnt fill it up. But what happened was that the metal shrinks when solidifies so thats dilatation issues.
Super tempted to make Mandolorian armor this way 🤔
Do it! :)
what the temperature of the aluminium to melt all the plastic ?
Stator Full body? What about parassite current?
Why are the sprues/runner so tall?
I have a little experience in casting we remove the pattern then pour the liquid metal
COOL
Have you tried to create a silicone mold, then make a positive in wax then plaster?
It seems like a lot more work but also more precision i guess.
Vincent Carrière I've done lost wax casting before but never from a 3d printer part.
One of the better PLA casting videos for sure, I would've liked to see the burnout process too. The result was really nice, but the pour could've been better, stopping midstream (heh) pulls down the oxidized layer with the following pour. And, did it work as intended? :P
Thanks, yea the pour wasn't ideal. If I had to do it again I'd make the
main sprew thicker and taller. In the end it worked great. Next time I
will show the burn out process, if you don't get a good burn out then
the whole casting fails. I was planning on another lost PLA video this
weekend but it failed due to not all the PLA burning out. I'm looking
into 3d Filament made specifically for casting, keep and eye out for
that.
Hi, you might want to check out "Lay-Mold" filament by lay-filaments.com (german company). I've read about it several times but never seen it in action. if you could get your hands on a sample you might want to give it a try! I'd love to see how it works out!
+NEutebach I'm definitely looking into filaments that are specifically designed for lost casting. I haven't had a chance to get my hands on any yet. Keep and eye out though as I will be doing a video on one in the future.
In outrunner electric motors magnets are pushed with centrifugal force to outer frame. Its more safe. Also outrunners have more torque, than inrunners.
try and do the casting with dry sand only, just bury the part in the dry sand make a cup spot in the sand box with a small portion of the part exposed then pour in the hot aluminium thanks for sharing
I never considered casting 3D prints to make metal parts :O
Could use a palm sander to vibrate out the bubbles.
I'm looking to do this..... With stainless
I wonder if you could do it with ABS and get rid of the plastic with acetone, or with the PVA and leave it in water overnight. I'd imagine either may affect the plaster/silica mix?
Pva might work...I actually have some laying around, I'll have to try it.
Just a few questions.
Have you tried to cast your printed plastic patterns directly in the sand? Compared to making a plaster mold and melting the pattern to leave a cavity.
What kind of plastic are the patterns printed with?
Will it not melt quickly enough from pouring the molten metal directly onto it?
I've done sand casting before with homemade greensand and had OK results. I plan on eventually getting real greensand and using that.
In this video the mold was printed with PLA, however my other videos are printed with a special wax filament made for lost casting. You can see my review video on the wax filament as well as get 10% off purchase of it by using coupon code "PROJECT" at check out. The link is in the description of the review video.
If you pour directly on PLA or WAX you tend to get a volcano, it can be done but the mold and model need to be set up differently in order to vent the gases created when the wax or PLA is vaporized.
Okay fair enough. Thanks for the reply. I am making my own greensand at home. I built a ball-mill to crush kitty litter (pure bentonite clay), and play sand into fine powdered sand. I'd love to get a 3D printer to make my patterns.
More details on the burn-out process would be helpful. Otherwise, great video.
Michael Jensen tip mold upside down put over furnace so melted plastic runs out. not much to it
Michael Felske how do you know when it's done? Do you time it, or is there a way to tell?
+Michael Jensen Thats a good question and I'll be going into this more on my next video. It's a bit of trial and error/guessing. If you have a compressor you can shoot air down one of the vent holes, if air comes out the main spew it's a good indication that at least most of the PLA and melted out. I tend to just error on the side of heating the crap out of it and crossing my fingers lol.
You're gonna want to balance that. Use a propeller/wheel balancer to find where the centre of mass is.
You could have added material like clay to the ends of the casting or even printed in extra length and then machined it off on the lathe. As well as you could have drilled the center hole on the lathe.
So "several hours" with during the "burning out" process with your barbecue grille set to 500 or 600 degrees? Thats real efficiency. How many total hours did you have in that "rotor" (generally they're called armatures BTW) when it was all said and done? How fast does the motor run and how much vibration? And why use ABS plastic or whatever that for the mold model? Have you heard of "lost foam casting" and "investment casting" where wax is used for the model part? If I'm not mistaken the molten metal itself does the "burning out" during the pour.
Nope. The PLA is molten, poured out and the remainder is burnt.
what was the material you used for to make the molde ? a material a little bit pasty !
Yuri Novais Araujo it's 50% plaster of paris and 50% play sand
Just an IMO, but for part like this it's probably will be simpler to make whole styrofoam, since You already have hot wire cutter. Is there any benefits for this particular case?
Sedokun it's very hard to cut Styrofoam by hand and be accurate to the mm. I made a rotor out of wood before this...same issue it was to difficult to get any dimensional accuracy.
For this application, the original PLA or aluminum, copper, wood or carbon filament would've been just as practical, no? The only issue is heat. Other than that, what advantage is aluminum? I'm assuming it's a heat issue, but I think an air flow strategy might be easier (the magnets can't get too hot anyway). Anyway, the video wasn't about the generator, but making the mold, and you did a great job explaining the process.
Sera que da para Fazer grillz desse jeito??
Nice work. Why didn't you include the ducts in the 3d-print?
A somewhat more engineering-like fixation in the box might have helped to make sure that it would not float away.
The additional ducts do not only serve as outlets for the air, they are also a reservoir of molten metal that can empty into the cast when it cools down. In that function, they are called risers The shrinkage in the transition from liquid to solid is much more than the following shrinking when the solid cools down to room temperature. If you provide an excess of liquid metal with a wide enough port towards the cast, it can fill any voids. These appear as cavities or 'blow holes' in the cast otherwise. So, the filling duct connects to the bottom of the cast whereas the riser ends at the highest point of the cast.
BTW, your 3D-slicer can tell you the exact volume of your cast including the ducts, so you can make sure you have enough metal in your pot.
Others have advised here already on how to de-gas the plaster. I use a strong oscillating sander , bottom up, putting the casting frame on it and let it shake.
Adding a small 'dyke' around the feeding duct would help to avoid metal flowing into the riser(s). You can build that in plaster too.
How long did you let the burning of the PLA run at what temperature? And how did you make sure there were no residuals (ashes) left?
Thanks for your reply!
Thank you Ulrich for the tip with the orbital sander!!!
I was about to make a vibrating table, but I will save my time big deal with your idea!!!! Thank you for sharing.
hi i just want to get confirmed, you melt out the 3d printed part befor pouring the metal in? det video was greate, just what i needed ☺
+Brian Wind Grøndahl yep, you melt out the pla before casting. Make sure it's all burnt out otherwise it will not fill completley and you might end up with a volcano.
ProjectTube greate THX 😀
Could the bubble issue be solved with a cheap concrete vibrator from harbor freight?
Dennis G the bubble issue could of been solved with higher risers. this was one of my first casts. I've learned a lot since then.
Did you take into account the volume the aluminium shrinks when it cools, when you made the 3D model?
Vincent Wolfe I did not, when I made this video I was still pretty new to casting. I have since become a lot better and account for that in my newer videos.
Why you didnt just add the casting tree to your model?
So do you not remove the 3d printed material? it just melts from the aluminum?
Nathan, no the 3d printed material is burnt out before the pour.
? Would this work good on turning 3d printed slide into metal
Only on the weekends
شكرا انت رائع سوف تكون افضل مع حرارة اعلى للكرفين و من المفيد زيادة طول فتحة الهواء يبدو ان المسار الاول كان مغلق بسبب عدم خروج كامل القطعة المطبوعة اولا
Really awesome videos,I will try this once for sure .
For now mind if i share this on my fb page.
+MakewithRex Nope, share as much as you like. Thanks!
+ProjectTube would you like to collab ?
+MakewithRex sure, shoot me an email.
So lets see the motor actually running.