I appreciate the way you handle the needlessly snarky, nasty comments. Very calm and classy. Obviously, it takes a thick skin to make it in this world.
Ha! I don't really feel spiked by the comments, I feel more of a disappointment that people become so wrapped up in being defensive that they deny themselves some perspective that may or may not be useful to them
@@minty_Joe can't believe you agreed on that Marmite topic! But maybe that has to do with when I first visited England, first breakfast, spreading Marmite as if it was Nutella (which I assumed it kind of was). 'Started making some weird noises there and the rest of the table knew, oh yeah they knew. I could tell, since they were all laughing while watching this' thing' unfold. Marmite, yuck
@@Sool101 Um, are you sure you've got the right person? You'll have to clarify which comment and where it is for me to understand. At any rate, yes, Marmite along with other topping items like Vegemite and Nutella, does not need to coat the whole piece of toast. You only need a little bit. Hugh Jackman demonstrated Vegemite correctly for Jimmy Fallon several years ago.
Oh man, I found good humor in this! Easy to criticize and throw shade, sitting behind a laptop screen. I've not mixed, But did A2 (local) years ago at the Warp Tour Monster Stages both left and right SL260 stages, with both Rat Subs, K-array, and V-DOSC. Everything Rat supplied sounded great, and Gwar was a trip!
You know Dave, I have seen numerous RHCP shows. Mostly by video and a few in-person. Long before TH-cam. I had never once questioned the sound quality. I just assumed it was done by a professional and my ears told me it was a good mix. I think a lot of the hate you get is because you are exposing what you do. Before doing that I would bet no one would ever have guessed your methods and assumed everything was “stereo-mono” as I like to call it. These concepts are quite thought provoking even if not incorporated by the viewer. It’s too bad man.
It’s funny how you can tell when someone has a personal issue with something and not an actual critique or question, they are so emotional straight out of the gate. Love this series, thanks Dave.
Some of these are hilarious. I've witnessed your attention to detail when setting up a system in a room and it sounded awesome. I hope you don't let these comments get to you.
Thank you Nick and all good! Many years of mixing and many years of being exposed to the public has me well adapted to a variety of personalities and agendas.
I can't believe that one guy went to the hollywood bowl, took measurements after hearing about a unique concept going on, then started by undoing all of it before doing anything else, and concluded with it being bad. Amazing lack of respect and creativity in a person.
I'm good with engineers setting gear up how they want it or works for them. Conversely jumping to the conclusion that oneself is super smart and others are stupid and then promoting that, may not be indicative of sufficient research, knowledge or awareness of the beiiger picture.
Dave, you're a unique intellect and that invariably draws the ire of lesser minds. I would like to be more like you when I grow up, but I'm already 68.
Wow! I never knew people really hated Dave this much. He's one of the best and greatest audio engineers in the world to me. He's very gifted, experienced, and awesome to me. My favorite of all time to be honest
Thank you John and I don't think they hate me, I think they just get a bit grumpy when they find out that what they believe may be an incomplete understanding.
Dude "turned off all that nonsense" because he didn't understand sound as much as he thinks. A lot of newbs these days, think they know everything right out the gate. Nobody wants to stay in their lane until they're going fast enough to not wreck everything. Believe it or not, your videos have helped me with mic placement instead of speaker placement, in my studio. I have 14 microphones on my drum kit (4 toms). I'd like to see how those reddit rats cancel all that phase without delaying or moving tracks in a DAW. 🤙🏼
Christ on a bike! (I’m allowed to say that, I was raised as an Irish catholic ☺️). But some of the criticisms of Dave Rat appear to be more than bizarre. Almost borne out envy. Three things. 1. horses for courses. I’ve never heard Dave say any of his ideas are cure alls or magic bullets. 2. Dave’s touring record speaks for itself. It’s obvious he knows his stuff. 3. From someone like me as an audience member for these posts, some of the remarks, particularly those making them under spurious names, seem pretty snide and show no common decency or respect. Regardless of what anyone thinks of Dave’s or anyone else’s ideas, regardless of their profession, a little more respect would be beneficial not just to sound humans but to humans in general. Dave not all of your ideas would work for what my sound company does, it’s horses for courses. But I do appreciate those who try to push boundaries. I hope you make mistakes on your journey as we learn more from those. I know I have when we’ve tried new ideas. Worth noting. Without mistakes there would be no line arrays, no digital desks, no digital infrastructure (I for one do not miss hauling mahoosive multi-cores). In fact without those pushing boundaries we wouldn’t even have electric guitars… or electricity itself if you want to go back far enough. To all the innovators. Keeping making mistakes. We all benefit from them. Unless of course you’re innovating with Guinness. Leave well alone, there’s no perfecting perfection ☺️
Ha! Making things up I'm good with, presenting is as if it's fact, well, not ideal. Thinking that being an ass about it will make it more correct? Oh my.
I should have started a list of all the people I've run into who were just damaged goods, disgruntled, loner, vagabond types back in the early 1990s. It's not a solid industry, being a mix engineer, to say the least. It's not as bad as being a truck lumper but it can be close at times on tours. It's just the nature of being gig to gig (even venue to venue and never knowing if they'll still be in existence your next pass through that area) for most people that turns them into hyper suspicious pessimistic assholes toward anyone who has a settled-down thing where they have any kind of job security. Let's face it, there are rackets everywhere and corruption and nepotism and some severe PTSD among us due to the buddy systems at play on all levels and anyone, such as Dave, who has a fairly solid thing with a home base to it is suspect before he does or says anything for those very reasons. It's super difficult for someone to get their head out of the culture aspects of it to even stop and think ''Oh, yeah, these are humans I'm dealing with and talking to or about''. I honestly don't believe any of these snarky commenters begrudge you for anything other than having an apparently steady thing, they see that and a light goes off in their heads flashing MUST BE BULLSHIT AFOOT and they come up with any angle they can to say something hateful. It's obvious that none of them can nail down any specifics so they are almost certainly lying or are clueless but the bigger picture is that they are suffering and trying to put up a tough guy image about it as if they aren't. It's a sad thing. Nobody said carnival life was going to be easy or loving or accepting or respectful.
And when dealing with an invisible energy such as sound, so easily odd beliefs can manifest. And all good! I don't dislike or take offence, I use this as an opportunity to see 8f I can shed some possibly helpful clarity
It's awesome seeing the diversity of age and wisdom that you teach to. I'm just a 22 year old and seeing your legacy of giving back information is really inspiring. Much respect
I think it was The Levellers, really didn't like an L Acoustics rig.. While it was plenty to do the gig, it was a bit small and their ego was a tad bruised.
You know, I think my first question to some of those comments would be “why are you mixing on a Dave Rat system in the first place and not a (enter their name here) sound system?” Thanks Dave for all of your knowledge and wisdom.
I've seen a lot of club engineers get overwhelmed trying to get a club mix out of larger more complex systems as the band they work for gets popular faster than the engineer's skill level can keep up to. I would say this accounts for a good percentage of engineers trying to bandaid over the backlash of a struggled mix by pointing fingers.
I'm yet to mix on a largest scale venue, but after hundreds of acts over 15years, isn't it as simple as using your ears? What am I missing club-->larger PA?
Good question. Things like the high hat can't be cranked like in a club. It really tough to get strong sharp highs to project long distances, takes up lots of power and not unlike with in ears, messes up other things. That up close hit and punch of a kick gets softened and lower mids can get unwieldy. In a club, low mids with the associated hit and punch can sound great. Trying to get that sound in a venue that resonates in those same frequencies. Just creates a blurry mess. Small arenas and large halls tend to resonate in the 150 to 200 range, mis sized arenas are in the 120 to 160 range with big arenas getting down to 80 or so and I have been in stadiums that resonate in the 40 to 60 range or lower. Resonation is like slow motion feedback and it ruins the inteligeability and putting small amounts of the resonant frequencies into the venue resulted in large amounts of those frequencies bouncing around. Also, the ratio of stage sound to pa sound is way more drastic, the pa is all most people hear so it's less forgiving and paying attention to a huge space rather than just where the mix position is. Much more care and finesse required to control the huge systems involved
Some people have Alot to say. Easy to fire shots when we can't listen to your mix. I think, everyone who post trash on Dave should send us a link to their shows
Hi Dave. Could you do a video on Black Flag's tour rigs and sound set up? Maybe include any info on the amps used and cab builds you can remember? Been listening to the live tour tapes on TH-cam from 1985 and 1986 and they sound great.
The marmite story reminded me of the first time I tasted caviar. Your dad had a jar of it in the fridge at the house in HB and you were eating it for breakfast and gave me some. I was repulsed! Now I love it. Also loving these vids! Good to see your mug and hear your voice, my brother!
Hey Dave: I know this video and its posts are over a year old but: Dont let any of the haters spoil a min of your day. Im a 68 year old engineer ROH/FOH. I started on 6 channel rotary knob consoles and old shure cabinets and then Sun Cabinets, early crown amps ( d-60, 150/a dc 300 etc) . Im still active doing shows and most of the guys hammering on you are just foolish, haven't done enough work and ar far more impressed by over gating over compressing than sonic qualities. It saddens me how often i mention an instrument frequency chart to young engineers and they literally have no idea such a thing exists. They have little concept of mic placement as concerns "why" we look for that right spot, much less dealing with phase on stage . That said, as a guy who loves a good stage, good players and a good wedge rig more than about anyone- yes, paying attention to polarity and phase on stage is Huge for a guy like me that seeks to create musical environments for the players and all environments being musical together ( grin, human ) . I literally Hate the new "dead stage, all IEM's , nothing ;ive on stage but drums and them behind plexiglass- i hate it, utterly. I don't like mixing foh on those shows either . Any advice on how to not hate our profession in this new age ?
Leveraging Marshall McLuhan's "The medium is the message": Doubtful any of those hurling vituperous epithets would do so in face to face conversation. Yet, it is still the mark of an educated person to entertain a thought without accepting it.
Cool cool James. And gonna dive further into the marsh. Next episode gonna release now. It's fun to use some friction as an opportunity to share some info that may be helpful.
Dave, I love your videos even though 1/2 the time I’m absolutely clueless. I’ve just started DJing and producing music but I found your video on how heat affects sound travel quite interesting. Have you/do you ever work directly with synthesizers?
i live and work in Canada as an FOH/corp mixer and any and all creative ideas are de facto off the menu up here. I am fed up with the staid thinking in the industry here. I gotta move to the USA. Dave... sponsor me!! I'll work for next to nothing if you let me op !
Last time I checked you should never blame the gear it's most likely your fault too many guys want to blame the gear or the PA that you're on and in some instances it's it but it's rare it's pretty awful to hear so many inexperienced soundguys just bash Dave because they don't know what they're doing
Always love it when people talk shit and then you hear them mix and it's just loud and only sounds good near the mixer. The "lower levels" of pro audio is full of that. It's also full of people who love to experiment and are eager to learn, but it's a job and you can only work with what you have. In a way this is similar to experiments in a studio. E.g. what the Beatles did. Try something against the "general knowledge" and if it sounds good... keep doing it. But again, most people don't have the cash for that either... haha. I could tell stories about that, too.
That thread really is as much hate (or jealousy) as much as it is legitimate criticism of your work. You can tell by the wording… I’ve heard mixes that were awful, but I wouldn’t publicly use such negative language unless I was going out of my way to discourage the engineer who made them. It’s not a question of whether someone has thick skin, it’s about making your criticisms constructive so that people are more willing to talk about things.
Dave, a short comment to give some love! thank you so much!! Absolutely Love your videos, I’ve learned so much watching them it’s insane! Always a teaching or new ideas to think about! 🙌🙌🔥🔥
Hey Dave, Steve here. Would one be able to mimic the effects of double micing everything by copying the input to two channels with separate processing instead of actually double-micing everything? Let's say on a small side I have a 32ch mixer with a 16ch band. Does the benefit come from separate source mics or just processing on the FOH side?
Hmmm, not really. The surface of an instrument or cone is vibrating. If it is vibrating in perfect unison, multiple mics will pick up the exact same sound and panning one hard left and one hard right would sound mono. But that is not what happens, the surface of the cone or instrument vibrates differently and sounds different in differing places. Some or many of these differences qre the decorrelated aspects. If you take the same mic and an it hard left and hard right, it will sound mono. Adding some EQ will add some tonal but not a random timing differences, adding delay to one side will add an overall non random timing difference. These things will create minor decorrelation ish differences but the signals will still be strongly related. A decorrelated signal can be in polarity or out of polarity when summed with another signal and you will hear no difference. You can add or remove delay time on one or the other and you will hear no difference in phasing or tonality. In video 5 of the reddit series I will show a demo of using 2 mics to achieve some eff3ctive decorrelation
TBF I’ve rocked up to venues with issues with the PA and the in house tech has said “impossible! *well known sound person* set up this PA. Thing is there’s different techs using the PA every night. Sometimes things are patched out the wrong way etc in the rush of a show. Also when mixing internationally, do you have to rent or buy a new patch of grass?
Confusion, mistakes and misunderstandings are plentiful. Trying raise one image by bad mouthing otters is less 5han an ideal approach. And carrying, daily watering and sunning the tour sod required attention and not an international adventure.
I My DJ set up is all in stereo, even my subs. I use the real world applications in my Daily DJ work, at times as well. When I bring 4 subs out for a bigger gig. I run 2 subs left stereo signal and 2 subs right stereo signal. Also turn one subwoofer side up a little more than the other side. At times and location to achieve awesome results. Using the dbx drive rack makes even more possible. I love to use the phase of speakers for desired effects as well. Definitely more so with certain music styles. When running my laptop I run my signal sources to two independent channels instead of to one. I switch back and forth with my pan pots from zero for more more floor punch. Though a little more of a roll off on the low end . Depending on songs I will also run pan pots far left and far right and the characteristics is amazing. My low end floor opens up little less punch though more fullness and the mains have more head room in dynamics. Some people even think I'm using sound effects on songs. When in reality its the subtle affects that get buried in songs. From to many sound sources going through the speakers. I'm simply using the pan pots to more so isolate signal paths. To achieve the head room in the music. Sorry for the rant! Just amazing stuff Dave. Awesome work on your channel, Love it!
Using out of polarity as a tool to control LF can be effective but putting left vs right of a pa out of polarity creates a quite unwieldy LF hole in the middle. That would be a pretty drastic approach and highly improbable to result in desirable outcomes
Genius stuff.... If being a world class supermodel stops working out for you, you could always consider becoming a comedian... This series is super funny
Great comments here, Dave! "...nobody understands Dave Ratt." If there's anything I understand about Dave Ratt is that we're not going to improve our game without testing for ourselves what works. In one sense, you can just try stuff to find out what happens. Serendipity is fine. In another sense, it's helpful to be methodical. I did undergrad work in both physics and music. Ours is an art with a science to it and we need to be scientific artists. You get to be consulted on the Hollywood Bowl by knowing what you are doing, not by guessing or falling into mental ruts. Understanding sound interference can be your best friend and polarity can be your secret weapon. Not understanding it can give you problems you'll never be able to figure out otherwise.
Thank you Michael. I like to believe my successes are well founded and earned, I also realize that there are many successful people that have reached that point by being handed and holding undeserved opportunity or by taking advantage of or stepping on the heads of others. I do personally strive help others and to have built a strong foundation of knowledge and experience to support my positions. These are things that are important to me for myself and others.
Hey Dave, ever since watching your videos about polarity I've been blown away by how much better things can be if you pay attention to it (i.e. flipping polarity of kick mic to drummer headphones... huge difference). My question is how do you cater for all the different polarity situations? i.e. in the video you talk about Drummer and Singer needing opposite polarity of kick drum. Is it a case of once a mix has correct absolute polarity you can just flip the polarity to the wedges or in ears? Also, flipping final polarity to a band member will really only make a difference if they can hear elements of their mix both acoustically and through their wedge/in ear? Thanks once again.
It's nice that you try to add educational and informative value in these "responds" videos, because I would simply ignore most people on the internet. Most of the time, I have no way of knowing the credentials of some person on a forum. I also wouldn't know if they are actually being truthful about what they say.
awesome work as usual. not all these ideas going to work in all venues it depends on the tuning of the Band equipment, tuning the sound system, layout. sometimes the mix in the room sounds amazing ,but when I go to listen to the desk mix it's completely opposite. the most important thing, does the audience actually enjoy it . remember it's all about the audience's experience. which at the end motivates the band.🤟
All in good fun. Harmless pecks and playful responses. At least for me because I am immune. But hopefully will deter them from them pecking those that may not bad as un effected.
So just can not adapt and over come . Start early and understand what the system can and can not do . Let the musician be emotional and the sound man steady on . A difficult thing to be and do many days.
I’d hate it though, if it became a real-life example of why one ‘doesn’t argue with an idiot because they bring you down to their level’. These Reddit comments to me are revealing a large knowledge gap between the commenters and Mr. Rat.
@@DaveRat thank you again for taking the time to pass on your experience based knowledge, and thanks for your grace on the trolls who probbaby find it hard to mix a salad let alone anything else! You are a pillar of the community.. now let's surf! Peace
@@DaveRat I can see that situation making someone hate life in a hurry. I don't mind that kind of thing, I enjoy the challenge of working to get a great mix at the lower volumes or levels. And having mixed on under powered rigs most of my life it's never a big deal.
The noise limit at that venue was frustratingly low but yes, understanding the challenge and getting the best sound isssible with the parameters at hand beats making things worse with a tanti time. No reason to mix into the red, well, almost no reason. I will tell my story about mixing Rage against the machine opening for U2 at some point
Hey Dave! Hope you're doing allright, I love your videos. The information youg ive is amazing, eye opening (or should I say... ear opening...) Im just wondering what song is that on your outro?? Its so raw and narly I love it!
@@DaveRat Wow, I new that the synth part was midi but to me the drum were just mono, I didnt even think it was midi! Is there a chance in the future that you'd make a full version and publish it?
I used the decorrelation trick on a show I mixed at Wacken on Saturday and I had people tell me it was the best show they heard there, even though I used the festival desk&patch with only 20 minutes of soundcheck time, so I was pretty happy in the end! Btw Dave, did you get my last mail about the Discord server? My mail sometimes behaves a little strangely, so I'm worried that it might not have arrived Robin
That is super cool Robin! Yes I did got your email. I've been busy and trying to sort a plan Going to try and see if a simple telegram setup will work for this. I am intimidated by the possible complexity and time invest in discord. I will respond to your email soon as I get my head around this.
@@DaveRat Cool! I have no clue about Telegram, but as I mentioned before already, I'm happy to assist with the Discord stuff. Once it's set up it basically runs on its own with no maintenance. It's far less scary than you might think ;-)
@@DaveRat if you think reddit is crazy, discord is worse! haha I won't go anywhere near it. The gen z kids think it's something special. Do your research. Thanks for all your great videos
Cool cool, yes, I think where ever we go, we should be ok. The member side of the TH-cam is stellar with nothing but great sound humans and no trolls. Expanding to an area for better file sharing and improved chat features for members is the goal. Maybe also having a moderated and more public side as well at some point.
Marmite all the way! Crumpet, marmite, slab of cheese all under the grill. perfect. Btw hearing my cats fighting in the hall but kitties not sure what they are actually fighting about - a bit like the loaded hater comments!
@DaveRat I've mixed on boards that had been dropped and were shooting sparks, I've mixed from birds nests where you need to climb up shady laders to reach the booth, I can't imagine anyone who's paid their dues complaining so much.
Hope you do share your experience working on the Holiday Bowl with us. I get that some of these people have methods to get good mixes, but they must not understand that being versatile and having multiple techniques to deal with all of the issues in live sound will make them better in any situation and better prepared.
@@DaveRat This might ruffle some feathers in the FOH world, but how about a demonstration of the Fletcher-Munson curve (aka "Loudness" control) in a live concert setting? For some reason, it makes sense to at least put that into the equation, while we're at it.
I will think about a way to demo. I actually implemented a version of that with success with the Rat trap system where the 1" and subs would have added gain and limit earlier. This gave the system a hifi sound at lower volumes and pulled back the subs and tweets when pushed This was real time controllable as well. I will at least discuss this in a vid
I got to hand it to these 11 year old's these days. With a bit of anonymity and a bit of reading (skimming really) they can seem pretty convincing. I guess I should really be appreciating these RPG designers, they have truly enhanced the imaginations of young people everywhere. I mean I remember playing one of the earliest helicopter simulators to the point I didn't crash on take off and I was convinced I had flown a helicopter, I too was 11. Same thing but far more convincing. I mean the critics literally expose themselves with every word, LOL. At minimum they show they don't understand the concepts you employed and are looking for someone to blame for their crappy mix. In all fairness to the one or two people who may be legit you clearly employ advanced techniques so it might be a stumbling block for many. As for me I can barley run my DAW so I just soak up what I can and humbly let the other stuff whoosh right over my head. Well handled Dave, it just shows how good of an educator you really are. :)
I appreciate the way you handle the needlessly snarky, nasty comments. Very calm and classy. Obviously, it takes a thick skin to make it in this world.
Ha! I don't really feel spiked by the comments, I feel more of a disappointment that people become so wrapped up in being defensive that they deny themselves some perspective that may or may not be useful to them
@@DaveRat Haters gonna hate, Dave. 'Nuff said. I've applied a lot of the advice you've provided to our setups and it does make a difference.
Thank you Joe!
@@minty_Joe can't believe you agreed on that Marmite topic!
But maybe that has to do with when I first visited England, first breakfast, spreading Marmite as if it was Nutella (which I assumed it kind of was). 'Started making some weird noises there and the rest of the table knew, oh yeah they knew. I could tell, since they were all laughing while watching this' thing' unfold.
Marmite, yuck
@@Sool101 Um, are you sure you've got the right person? You'll have to clarify which comment and where it is for me to understand.
At any rate, yes, Marmite along with other topping items like Vegemite and Nutella, does not need to coat the whole piece of toast. You only need a little bit. Hugh Jackman demonstrated Vegemite correctly for Jimmy Fallon several years ago.
Oh man, I found good humor in this! Easy to criticize and throw shade, sitting behind a laptop screen. I've not mixed, But did A2 (local) years ago at the Warp Tour Monster Stages both left and right SL260 stages, with both Rat Subs, K-array, and V-DOSC. Everything Rat supplied sounded great, and Gwar was a trip!
So cool thank you John!
You know Dave, I have seen numerous RHCP shows. Mostly by video and a few in-person. Long before TH-cam. I had never once questioned the sound quality. I just assumed it was done by a professional and my ears told me it was a good mix. I think a lot of the hate you get is because you are exposing what you do. Before doing that I would bet no one would ever have guessed your methods and assumed everything was “stereo-mono” as I like to call it. These concepts are quite thought provoking even if not incorporated by the viewer. It’s too bad man.
All good. Differing new ideas are always met with resistance, it's expected
And thank you!!
these responses are perfect examples of how happy and passionate people enjoy life more than miserable angry people.
🤙👍🤙
It’s funny how you can tell when someone has a personal issue with something and not an actual critique or question, they are so emotional straight out of the gate. Love this series, thanks Dave.
Thank you Alex!!
Some of these are hilarious. I've witnessed your attention to detail when setting up a system in a room and it sounded awesome. I hope you don't let these comments get to you.
Thank you Nick and all good! Many years of mixing and many years of being exposed to the public has me well adapted to a variety of personalities and agendas.
*calm whisper* “I think he means polarity.” 😂😂
👍😯👍
I can't believe that one guy went to the hollywood bowl, took measurements after hearing about a unique concept going on, then started by undoing all of it before doing anything else, and concluded with it being bad. Amazing lack of respect and creativity in a person.
I'm good with engineers setting gear up how they want it or works for them. Conversely jumping to the conclusion that oneself is super smart and others are stupid and then promoting that, may not be indicative of sufficient research, knowledge or awareness of the beiiger picture.
Dave, you're a unique intellect and that invariably draws the ire of lesser minds. I would like to be more like you when I grow up, but I'm already 68.
👍👍👍 John Costigan and funny!!
Wow! I never knew people really hated Dave this much. He's one of the best and greatest audio engineers in the world to me. He's very gifted, experienced, and awesome to me. My favorite of all time to be honest
Thank you John and I don't think they hate me, I think they just get a bit grumpy when they find out that what they believe may be an incomplete understanding.
Vegemite... The gateway for Marmite...
That made literally laugh out loud
Haha this is great. Love your attitude keep it up. To hate every minute of an L-Acoustics rig says to me it might be time for a change of career🥴
👍👍👍 Dane Prostamo-Brown
💯. To trash such a system really makes the commenter look bad more than anything
👍👍👍
Dude "turned off all that nonsense" because he didn't understand sound as much as he thinks. A lot of newbs these days, think they know everything right out the gate. Nobody wants to stay in their lane until they're going fast enough to not wreck everything. Believe it or not, your videos have helped me with mic placement instead of speaker placement, in my studio. I have 14 microphones on my drum kit (4 toms). I'd like to see how those reddit rats cancel all that phase without delaying or moving tracks in a DAW. 🤙🏼
🤙👍🤙
Christ on a bike! (I’m allowed to say that, I was raised as an Irish catholic ☺️). But some of the criticisms of Dave Rat appear to be more than bizarre. Almost borne out envy.
Three things.
1. horses for courses. I’ve never heard Dave say any of his ideas are cure alls or magic bullets.
2. Dave’s touring record speaks for itself. It’s obvious he knows his stuff.
3. From someone like me as an audience member for these posts, some of the remarks, particularly those making them under spurious names, seem pretty snide and show no common decency or respect.
Regardless of what anyone thinks of Dave’s or anyone else’s ideas, regardless of their profession, a little more respect would be beneficial not just to sound humans but to humans in general.
Dave not all of your ideas would work for what my sound company does, it’s horses for courses. But I do appreciate those who try to push boundaries. I hope you make mistakes on your journey as we learn more from those. I know I have when we’ve tried new ideas.
Worth noting. Without mistakes there would be no line arrays, no digital desks, no digital infrastructure (I for one do not miss hauling mahoosive multi-cores). In fact without those pushing boundaries we wouldn’t even have electric guitars… or electricity itself if you want to go back far enough.
To all the innovators. Keeping making mistakes. We all benefit from them.
Unless of course you’re innovating with Guinness. Leave well alone, there’s no perfecting perfection ☺️
The quest to create the Guinness of sound system remains a lofty and relevant goal
It's amazing how many people on -reddit- -on the internet- just people everywhere just make things up.
Ha! Making things up I'm good with, presenting is as if it's fact, well, not ideal.
Thinking that being an ass about it will make it more correct? Oh my.
I should have started a list of all the people I've run into who were just damaged goods, disgruntled, loner, vagabond types back in the early 1990s. It's not a solid industry, being a mix engineer, to say the least. It's not as bad as being a truck lumper but it can be close at times on tours. It's just the nature of being gig to gig (even venue to venue and never knowing if they'll still be in existence your next pass through that area) for most people that turns them into hyper suspicious pessimistic assholes toward anyone who has a settled-down thing where they have any kind of job security. Let's face it, there are rackets everywhere and corruption and nepotism and some severe PTSD among us due to the buddy systems at play on all levels and anyone, such as Dave, who has a fairly solid thing with a home base to it is suspect before he does or says anything for those very reasons. It's super difficult for someone to get their head out of the culture aspects of it to even stop and think ''Oh, yeah, these are humans I'm dealing with and talking to or about''. I honestly don't believe any of these snarky commenters begrudge you for anything other than having an apparently steady thing, they see that and a light goes off in their heads flashing MUST BE BULLSHIT AFOOT and they come up with any angle they can to say something hateful. It's obvious that none of them can nail down any specifics so they are almost certainly lying or are clueless but the bigger picture is that they are suffering and trying to put up a tough guy image about it as if they aren't. It's a sad thing. Nobody said carnival life was going to be easy or loving or accepting or respectful.
And when dealing with an invisible energy such as sound, so easily odd beliefs can manifest.
And all good! I don't dislike or take offence, I use this as an opportunity to see 8f I can shed some possibly helpful clarity
It's awesome seeing the diversity of age and wisdom that you teach to. I'm just a 22 year old and seeing your legacy of giving back information is really inspiring. Much respect
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Dave is a national treasure
Honored!!
Why are sound bros always so salty and righteous? 😂
Dave you are a legend for reading these out loud man haha. Love your work.
Right people get all feisty!
I think it was The Levellers, really didn't like an L Acoustics rig..
While it was plenty to do the gig, it was a bit small and their ego was a tad bruised.
I figured it was an engineer ignoring the noise limit possibly getting turned down and deciding to mix into the red rather than play ball
oof. The comments are so snarky. This is a good way to learn something new. Dave doesn't get all hot and bothered, instead, he explains. Good teacher.
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Wait so you brought your own sod as a foot pad? Did you go barefoot? Otherwise whats the point. But also thats some hippie jazz.
Of course we went barefoot.
Scott the lampi and I barefoot rock show!
You know, I think my first question to some of those comments would be “why are you mixing on a Dave Rat system in the first place and not a (enter their name here) sound system?” Thanks Dave for all of your knowledge and wisdom.
I've seen a lot of club engineers get overwhelmed trying to get a club mix out of larger more complex systems as the band they work for gets popular faster than the engineer's skill level can keep up to.
I would say this accounts for a good percentage of engineers trying to bandaid over the backlash of a struggled mix by pointing fingers.
I'm yet to mix on a largest scale venue, but after hundreds of acts over 15years, isn't it as simple as using your ears? What am I missing club-->larger PA?
Good question. Things like the high hat can't be cranked like in a club. It really tough to get strong sharp highs to project long distances, takes up lots of power and not unlike with in ears, messes up other things.
That up close hit and punch of a kick gets softened and lower mids can get unwieldy. In a club, low mids with the associated hit and punch can sound great. Trying to get that sound in a venue that resonates in those same frequencies. Just creates a blurry mess.
Small arenas and large halls tend to resonate in the 150 to 200 range, mis sized arenas are in the 120 to 160 range with big arenas getting down to 80 or so and I have been in stadiums that resonate in the 40 to 60 range or lower.
Resonation is like slow motion feedback and it ruins the inteligeability and putting small amounts of the resonant frequencies into the venue resulted in large amounts of those frequencies bouncing around.
Also, the ratio of stage sound to pa sound is way more drastic, the pa is all most people hear so it's less forgiving and paying attention to a huge space rather than just where the mix position is. Much more care and finesse required to control the huge systems involved
Some people have Alot to say.
Easy to fire shots when we can't listen to your mix. I think, everyone who post trash on Dave should send us a link to their shows
We can't stop people from being confused or getting carried away but we can help people spot people that are confused or getting carried away
Hi Dave. Could you do a video on Black Flag's tour rigs and sound set up? Maybe include any info on the amps used and cab builds you can remember? Been listening to the live tour tapes on TH-cam from 1985 and 1986 and they sound great.
Good idea, will ponder a vid on that
@@DaveRat Cool. Thanks for the reply. Looking forward to it.
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The marmite story reminded me of the first time I tasted caviar. Your dad had a jar of it in the fridge at the house in HB and you were eating it for breakfast and gave me some. I was repulsed! Now I love it. Also loving these vids! Good to see your mug and hear your voice, my brother!
Hey hey Johnny! We had some great times and great to hear from you!
Hey Dave: I know this video and its posts are over a year old but: Dont let any of the haters spoil a min of your day.
Im a 68 year old engineer ROH/FOH. I started on 6 channel rotary knob consoles and old shure cabinets and then Sun Cabinets, early crown amps ( d-60, 150/a dc 300 etc) . Im still active doing shows and most of the guys hammering on you are just foolish, haven't done enough work and ar far more impressed by over gating over compressing than sonic qualities. It saddens me how often i mention an instrument frequency chart to young engineers and they literally have no idea such a thing exists. They have little concept of mic placement as concerns "why" we look for that right spot, much less dealing with phase on stage . That said, as a guy who loves a good stage, good players and a good wedge rig more than about anyone- yes, paying attention to polarity and phase on stage is Huge for a guy like me that seeks to create musical environments for the players and all environments being musical together ( grin, human ) .
I literally Hate the new "dead stage, all IEM's , nothing ;ive on stage but drums and them behind plexiglass- i hate it, utterly.
I don't like mixing foh on those shows either .
Any advice on how to not hate our profession in this new age ?
Leveraging Marshall McLuhan's "The medium is the message": Doubtful any of those hurling vituperous epithets would do so in face to face conversation. Yet, it is still the mark of an educated person to entertain a thought without accepting it.
Cool cool James. And gonna dive further into the marsh. Next episode gonna release now.
It's fun to use some friction as an opportunity to share some info that may be helpful.
Sounds almost like that scene in Annie Hall, when Woody Allen breaks the 4th wall suddenly pulls Marshall McLuhan in for a cameo. Ha-ha-ha!
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Eloquently said! 🙌
I love these videos. Your ability to smile and move on is incredible. I need to learn that skill from you also!
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Dave, I love your videos even though 1/2 the time I’m absolutely clueless. I’ve just started DJing and producing music but I found your video on how heat affects sound travel quite interesting. Have you/do you ever work directly with synthesizers?
Thank you. And I have not done much work with syths other than an occasional fixing one that broke for a band
i live and work in Canada as an FOH/corp mixer and any and all creative ideas are de facto off the menu up here. I am fed up with the staid thinking in the industry here. I gotta move to the USA. Dave... sponsor me!! I'll work for next to nothing if you let me op !
Last time I checked you should never blame the gear it's most likely your fault too many guys want to blame the gear or the PA that you're on and in some instances it's it but it's rare it's pretty awful to hear so many inexperienced soundguys just bash Dave because they don't know what they're doing
Always love it when people talk shit and then you hear them mix and it's just loud and only sounds good near the mixer.
The "lower levels" of pro audio is full of that.
It's also full of people who love to experiment and are eager to learn, but it's a job and you can only work with what you have.
In a way this is similar to experiments in a studio. E.g. what the Beatles did. Try something against the "general knowledge" and if it sounds good... keep doing it. But again, most people don't have the cash for that either... haha.
I could tell stories about that, too.
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Hey Dave. I love this series as I find it incredibly entertaining and educational. Keep doing this and educating these spoiled internet raised kids!
Thank you thank you!!
Pure class Dave 🙌
👍👍👍 Matt Redlich
I would rather listen to a PA that sounds good and measures bad than listen to a PA that measures good and sounds bad.
Keep up the good work Dave!
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If those comments won't bring you down, what does? 🙂
Ha, dealing with my mom takes infinitely more patience
@@DaveRat Yowza! 😀
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That thread really is as much hate (or jealousy) as much as it is legitimate criticism of your work. You can tell by the wording… I’ve heard mixes that were awful, but I wouldn’t publicly use such negative language unless I was going out of my way to discourage the engineer who made them. It’s not a question of whether someone has thick skin, it’s about making your criticisms constructive so that people are more willing to talk about things.
All good and kinda fun
Dave, a short comment to give some love!
thank you so much!!
Absolutely Love your videos, I’ve learned so much watching them it’s insane!
Always a teaching or new ideas to think about! 🙌🙌🔥🔥
Thank you Devy!!
Hey Dave, Steve here. Would one be able to mimic the effects of double micing everything by copying the input to two channels with separate processing instead of actually double-micing everything? Let's say on a small side I have a 32ch mixer with a 16ch band. Does the benefit come from separate source mics or just processing on the FOH side?
Hmmm, not really.
The surface of an instrument or cone is vibrating. If it is vibrating in perfect unison, multiple mics will pick up the exact same sound and panning one hard left and one hard right would sound mono.
But that is not what happens, the surface of the cone or instrument vibrates differently and sounds different in differing places. Some or many of these differences qre the decorrelated aspects. If you take the same mic and an it hard left and hard right, it will sound mono. Adding some EQ will add some tonal but not a random timing differences, adding delay to one side will add an overall non random timing difference. These things will create minor decorrelation ish differences but the signals will still be strongly related.
A decorrelated signal can be in polarity or out of polarity when summed with another signal and you will hear no difference. You can add or remove delay time on one or the other and you will hear no difference in phasing or tonality.
In video 5 of the reddit series I will show a demo of using 2 mics to achieve some eff3ctive decorrelation
TBF I’ve rocked up to venues with issues with the PA and the in house tech has said “impossible! *well known sound person* set up this PA. Thing is there’s different techs using the PA every night. Sometimes things are patched out the wrong way etc in the rush of a show.
Also when mixing internationally, do you have to rent or buy a new patch of grass?
Confusion, mistakes and misunderstandings are plentiful.
Trying raise one image by bad mouthing otters is less 5han an ideal approach.
And carrying, daily watering and sunning the tour sod required attention and not an international adventure.
lol - thanks
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I My DJ set up is all in stereo, even my subs. I use the real world applications in my Daily DJ work, at times as well. When I bring 4 subs out for a bigger gig. I run 2 subs left stereo signal and 2 subs right stereo signal. Also turn one subwoofer side up a little more than the other side. At times and location to achieve awesome results. Using the dbx drive rack makes even more possible. I love to use the phase of speakers for desired effects as well. Definitely more so with certain music styles. When running my laptop I run my signal sources to two independent channels instead of to one. I switch back and forth with my pan pots from zero for more more floor punch. Though a little more of a roll off on the low end . Depending on songs I will also run pan pots far left and far right and the characteristics is amazing. My low end floor opens up little less punch though more fullness and the mains have more head room in dynamics. Some people even think I'm using sound effects on songs. When in reality its the subtle affects that get buried in songs. From to many sound sources going through the speakers. I'm simply using the pan pots to more so isolate signal paths. To achieve the head room in the music. Sorry for the rant! Just amazing stuff Dave. Awesome work on your channel, Love it!
Cool stuff Eugene!
haha I thought the 'Dave brings a patch of grass' comment was a joke when I originally first read it.
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If the point was to reduce low-frequency, wouldn't that be the point of out-of-polarity subs?
Using out of polarity as a tool to control LF can be effective but putting left vs right of a pa out of polarity creates a quite unwieldy LF hole in the middle.
That would be a pretty drastic approach and highly improbable to result in desirable outcomes
That face at 3:26, that's the best reply ever :'D
Still laughing about the "out of polarity everywhere" concept...
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Genius stuff.... If being a world class supermodel stops working out for you, you could always consider becoming a comedian... This series is super funny
Too fun an too funny!
Great comments here, Dave! "...nobody understands Dave Ratt." If there's anything I understand about Dave Ratt is that we're not going to improve our game without testing for ourselves what works. In one sense, you can just try stuff to find out what happens. Serendipity is fine. In another sense, it's helpful to be methodical. I did undergrad work in both physics and music. Ours is an art with a science to it and we need to be scientific artists. You get to be consulted on the Hollywood Bowl by knowing what you are doing, not by guessing or falling into mental ruts. Understanding sound interference can be your best friend and polarity can be your secret weapon. Not understanding it can give you problems you'll never be able to figure out otherwise.
Thank you Jim Pemberton cool cool and agreed
Dave is at the top of the audio food chain. Shit posting about his qualifications is clearly born out of jealousy and kind of pathetic. Rock on Dave.
Thank you Michael. I like to believe my successes are well founded and earned, I also realize that there are many successful people that have reached that point by being handed and holding undeserved opportunity or by taking advantage of or stepping on the heads of others.
I do personally strive help others and to have built a strong foundation of knowledge and experience to support my positions.
These are things that are important to me for myself and others.
Hey Dave, ever since watching your videos about polarity I've been blown away by how much better things can be if you pay attention to it (i.e. flipping polarity of kick mic to drummer headphones... huge difference). My question is how do you cater for all the different polarity situations? i.e. in the video you talk about Drummer and Singer needing opposite polarity of kick drum. Is it a case of once a mix has correct absolute polarity you can just flip the polarity to the wedges or in ears? Also, flipping final polarity to a band member will really only make a difference if they can hear elements of their mix both acoustically and through their wedge/in ear? Thanks once again.
That's more than I can cover in a comment but will try and clarify more in future vids
It's nice that you try to add educational and informative value in these "responds" videos, because I would simply ignore most people on the internet. Most of the time, I have no way of knowing the credentials of some person on a forum. I also wouldn't know if they are actually being truthful about what they say.
Ha, yes, it's a fun way to find chat topics
awesome work as usual.
not all these ideas going to work in all venues it depends on the tuning of the Band equipment, tuning the sound system, layout. sometimes the mix in the room sounds amazing ,but when I go to listen to the desk mix it's completely opposite. the most important thing, does the audience actually enjoy it . remember it's all about the audience's experience. which at the end motivates the band.🤟
👍👍 dwmfty
Haters gunna hate Dave. 🙄
You earnt your stripes while some of them were still in nappies.
All in good fun. Harmless pecks and playful responses. At least for me because I am immune. But hopefully will deter them from them pecking those that may not bad as un effected.
So just can not adapt and over come . Start early and understand what the system can and can not do . Let the musician be emotional and the sound man steady on . A difficult thing to be and do many days.
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I think any successful entity has haters that are envious somewhere deep down.
Like forest's have mosquitos and ticks. It comes with.
i am just a listener , not a sound guy.the comments sound like a bunch of jealous haters
Right!! Amazing the passions and negativity!
I was punished with a threat of a spoonful of Marmite as a child 😂 - I never got over that!
That would be a less than ideal child snack
I would absolutely love to hear Dave debate one of these naysayers.
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I’d hate it though, if it became a real-life example of why one ‘doesn’t argue with an idiot because they bring you down to their level’. These Reddit comments to me are revealing a large knowledge gap between the commenters and Mr. Rat.
One goes that exposure and peef pressure will insure a trend toward learning.
@@DaveRat gentleman and a scholar sir
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Regrets in life.. never hearing a dave mix.. I'll make up for by having marmite toast for breakfast..
Yes!!!!!
@@DaveRat thank you again for taking the time to pass on your experience based knowledge, and thanks for your grace on the trolls who probbaby find it hard to mix a salad let alone anything else! You are a pillar of the community.. now let's surf! Peace
If you hated every minute mixing on large L-Acoustics rigs you are likely doing something wrong...
I do recall a show where a support act eng kept pushing above the venue noise limits and got clamped down. Good chance that was the issue.
@@DaveRat I can see that situation making someone hate life in a hurry. I don't mind that kind of thing, I enjoy the challenge of working to get a great mix at the lower volumes or levels. And having mixed on under powered rigs most of my life it's never a big deal.
The noise limit at that venue was frustratingly low but yes, understanding the challenge and getting the best sound isssible with the parameters at hand beats making things worse with a tanti time.
No reason to mix into the red, well, almost no reason. I will tell my story about mixing Rage against the machine opening for U2 at some point
Top of the game with shit mixes, yes I may be alright haha 🤣🤣
👍👍👍 Stehfree Jesseah
"There are those that can do. And there are those who just speak doo-doo!" - William TSG
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Doo Doo.? More like Pooh pooh
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They really know how to hold back on Reddit.
Yes, very articulate and focused on learning and facts as well
Love that your posting again.
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Hey Dave! Hope you're doing allright, I love your videos. The information youg ive is amazing, eye opening (or should I say... ear opening...) Im just wondering what song is that on your outro?? Its so raw and narly I love it!
Thank you and the outro is a song I made with software that came with my most recent laptop.
I needed something that would not get me copyright hits
@@DaveRat Wow, I new that the synth part was midi but to me the drum were just mono, I didnt even think it was midi! Is there a chance in the future that you'd make a full version and publish it?
Will try and fit it in somehow, sure, thank you
@@DaveRat Thanks! You're the man!
I used the decorrelation trick on a show I mixed at Wacken on Saturday and I had people tell me it was the best show they heard there, even though I used the festival desk&patch with only 20 minutes of soundcheck time, so I was pretty happy in the end!
Btw Dave, did you get my last mail about the Discord server? My mail sometimes behaves a little strangely, so I'm worried that it might not have arrived
Robin
That is super cool Robin!
Yes I did got your email. I've been busy and trying to sort a plan
Going to try and see if a simple telegram setup will work for this.
I am intimidated by the possible complexity and time invest in discord.
I will respond to your email soon as I get my head around this.
@@DaveRat Cool! I have no clue about Telegram, but as I mentioned before already, I'm happy to assist with the Discord stuff. Once it's set up it basically runs on its own with no maintenance. It's far less scary than you might think ;-)
@@DaveRat if you think reddit is crazy, discord is worse! haha I won't go anywhere near it. The gen z kids think it's something special. Do your research. Thanks for all your great videos
Cool cool, yes, I think where ever we go, we should be ok. The member side of the TH-cam is stellar with nothing but great sound humans and no trolls.
Expanding to an area for better file sharing and improved chat features for members is the goal. Maybe also having a moderated and more public side as well at some point.
@@RickBaconsAdventures That's what you have moderators for. If you think it's bad you've just been part of the wrong servers.
Marmite all the way!
Crumpet, marmite, slab of cheese all under the grill. perfect.
Btw hearing my cats fighting in the hall but kitties not sure what they are actually fighting about - a bit like the loaded hater comments!
Yes! And added to marinades for chicken! It's kind of like using Thai fish sauce,, amazing flavor when used well
@@DaveRat perfect for gravy too - ever stumble upon Worcestershire Sauce? thats a good one!
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@@valleywoodstudio7345 try adding Marmite to bechamel sauce. Gives mac and cheese a bit of a kick, great for Welsh rarebit too.
Excellent
Dave, all I can say is you tolerate fools better than I do.
I kind of enjoy it in some odd way
@@DaveRat Just remember, it’s hard to win an argument with an intelligent person, but impossible against an idiot.
Thank you for your content. 👍👍
Not trying to win, just pointing a flashlight in that direction
Hahaha.
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@DaveRat I've mixed on boards that had been dropped and were shooting sparks, I've mixed from birds nests where you need to climb up shady laders to reach the booth, I can't imagine anyone who's paid their dues complaining so much.
Never underestimate the ability of a human to come up with a bad idea and run with it. Or find a way to complain about it
Keep these vids going.
Learning a lot 👌🏾
Thank You Gazzer McVenge
Hope you do share your experience working on the Holiday Bowl with us. I get that some of these people have methods to get good mixes, but they must not understand that being versatile and having multiple techniques to deal with all of the issues in live sound will make them better in any situation and better prepared.
Awesome, will work on it
@@DaveRat This might ruffle some feathers in the FOH world, but how about a demonstration of the Fletcher-Munson curve (aka "Loudness" control) in a live concert setting? For some reason, it makes sense to at least put that into the equation, while we're at it.
I will think about a way to demo.
I actually implemented a version of that with success with the Rat trap system where the 1" and subs would have added gain and limit earlier. This gave the system a hifi sound at lower volumes and pulled back the subs and tweets when pushed
This was real time controllable as well.
I will at least discuss this in a vid
@@DaveRat Awesome! Thank you!
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I got to hand it to these 11 year old's these days. With a bit of anonymity and a bit of reading (skimming really) they can seem pretty convincing. I guess I should really be appreciating these RPG designers, they have truly enhanced the imaginations of young people everywhere. I mean I remember playing one of the earliest helicopter simulators to the point I didn't crash on take off and I was convinced I had flown a helicopter, I too was 11. Same thing but far more convincing. I mean the critics literally expose themselves with every word, LOL. At minimum they show they don't understand the concepts you employed and are looking for someone to blame for their crappy mix. In all fairness to the one or two people who may be legit you clearly employ advanced techniques so it might be a stumbling block for many. As for me I can barley run my DAW so I just soak up what I can and humbly let the other stuff whoosh right over my head. Well handled Dave, it just shows how good of an educator you really are. :)
Hey Hey Peehand Shihtzu cool cool