For those of us from the original days of D2 online, we knew D2JSP as D2 Javascript Parser, which was essentially one of the easiest, earliest bots to set up. The entire D2JSP community came out from a community of botters that relentlessly botted D2, until Blizzard added features like Realm Down. I haven't been around that community since the early 2000's, but I can tell you that it's origins certainly weren't innocent.
D2JSP does effect the pricing of gear on ladder resets though. It effects the pricing of extremely sought after items like high runes, things that in vanilla D2 are EXTREMELY hard to find, and are way harder to find than a random unique like a shako, making it so those that have amassed massive amounts of forum gold on previous ladders to quickly obtain these items by outbidding everyone who does not have forum gold, increasing the price of these items in the early ladder, exactly when everyone is looking for these. For the one person who actually finds a high rune and trades it for a lot of forum gold, they may think its fine, but there are many other people that are being outbid for these items by someone who isn't even playing the game and will probably feel a bit salty about it. The idea of having a trade site is fine, but the rolling over forum gold on ladder resets is a problem.
@@Coooley Sure! The "victim" in this scenario are all the other people who are starting the season fresh, 0 fg, being outpriced by these whale D2JSP users. I'll give you an example. you have say 10 people who are playing the game normally, not using D2JSP, or all have virtually 0 fg, another person who finds a high rune, and lastly someone who is a D2JSP fg user who has rolled over their fg from last season. The person who finds a Jah or Ber rune, obviously in a normal circumstance, they would be able to only trade this item to the 10 people who are playing the game normally, maybe some of them have a few mid runes, or a shako, or a nice eschuta to trade for it, something that they worked for in game. In comes this D2JSP whale who can just offer an insane fg offer, one that is impossible to obtain without rolling over their fg from last season. This whale can corner the market for high runes, especially in the early to mid ladder. This scenario makes it so the normal players who are starting out fresh have almost no chance of getting a high rune or high value item until later on in the season. These whales can keep doing this every season. They also corner the market for high priced dueling gear driving the prices up higher and higher, because only players like them can afford it.
@@Coooley One example I've seen a few times, is in terms of dueling. Say you have several legit players who have dueling gear obtained by magic finding or trading, things would be relatively balanced overall. Their gear is average with some item slots being great and some being more temporary. Then you have one player who is a D2jsp "whale". They're using mostly best in slot items and overall have more value from their equipment than all of the other players combined. In this scenario the players who started the ladder from scratch as intended, are essentially victims to the whale's large forum gold expenditures.
D2JSP ruins the entire concept of ladder resets. Gaining wealth in a previous ladder is not supposed to translate over to the next, fresh ladder. For anyone about to say "but RMT ruins it too because you can just buy the rarest items with real money instead of FG then" - you're trying to justify a bad concept/thing with another, worse one. Using that kind of logic will also lead to a conclusion of accepting botting and hacking. Without reading D2s ToS (so not knowing if this is already covered), I'd hope they add similar rules to Path of Exile about in-game goods (be it items or services) being prohibited to be exchanged for anything but in-game goods. This would make it very clear you're only allowed to trade in-game. It would also get rid of the future massive giveaway streams where the content creator is directly benefitting from giving away in-game items and goods for viewership (ad revenue)/subs.
So the concept of ladder resets are for people to level and be "ranked" on a ladder. Llamas team got top spots early on. No jsp to acquire their items. They killed it! I guess I fail to see how having fg (or even buying items later in ladder) really hurts anyone. Now if you're saying that ppl buy items early on to bot and climb the ladder, well... That's exactly what I talked about in the video. Hoping they keep a closer eye on this in D2R.
@@Coooley Just because they didn't make use of the power from previous ladder's wealth (which they probably didn't even have due disliking JSP and not using it as a result to begin with(?)), doesn't mean it doesn't matter. With enough competition - where you'd have a dedicated trader buying all the items for the pushing team for example - it would make a massive difference. Just looking ladder resets' sole purpose of being only about pushing top ranks is either very narrow-minded or to purposefully ignore this argument - big(gest) part of a new ladder is obtaining items (fresh start in a game based around items, after all..) to help you towards whatever goals you might have. Go ask someone like Breivik what he thinks about the concept of wealth transferring from old ladder to another. For some, making your character tanky/fast/high damage enough to not worry about dying while pushing towards 99. For others, that could be PVP. For some it might be just to acquire as much wealth as possible, and obtaining the BiS farming gear early will make a major difference. Having access to (tens/hundreds of) thousands FG before the first item even dropped in a ladder creates an absurd inbalance between the two types of players where one has wealth from the past allowing them to easily buy past the legit ladder players. For people wishing to keep getting items and not resetting their (and everyone elses') economy - there's this thing called non-ladder. If there was a way of resetting everyone's FG at the start of the ladder (or make old FG not be able to work for new ladder items) I'd probably feel less strongly about this - but that is near impossible due to the inherit start of obtaining the first FG to begin trading with which is done by buying it with real money.
@@Karvarousku Good points man! This guy is a legend btw in poe and pd2. @Coooley I watched your stream and you told that the comments here are ignorant, yet you cant address this topic at all. Just ignoring it lol.
@@НиколаДимитров-щ9у if i remember back in the day seeing someone in full gear was crazy, but its not like RMT and mass bots were not happening. when i was about 12 i actually went and paid for a eth breath of the dieing off some site for like $10 and nagelrings for like a buck because i was young and dumb. point being that its always been super easy to pay to win in d2. for refrence this was like 2003-4ish
@@Karvarousku But doesn't that go back to the point the Cooley made. Wealth being kept from a previous ladder to a new one for a particular player only affects the economy of D2jsp and its users - not the economy of the players in the game. So while a player may use this forum gold from previous ladders to buy items early in the next ladder - it really only has an effect on his own gameplay, not anyone elses. I guess one could argue that the usage of d2jsp limits the supply of items available for in-game trading, though. Because if 90% (cooked number) of players use D2JSP for all their trades, there's only 10% left to trade with in the game.
@@bigtfishbone what do you mean don't...? What i was implying was i don't appreciate having a race with someone who can buy a full set of gear on day 1 while we start from scratch...
@@templar1115 exactly. Ladder is almost here and I don't even want to play it. Jsp has always been one of the biggest problems with d2. Absolutely ruins the game for me. Didn't matter if I'm not using it cause everyone else is!
clearly not . No jsp ? no FG ? No problem i can buy item's like in jsp but in others forums , discord or sites like ebay etc ... with real money or some others money like fg. So that change nothing. And if you destroy Jsp , 10 other jsp gonna be built ;) its like dealers in real life. The big dealer go to the jail => 5 others dealers pop in one week ^^ .
I used to bot in D2LOD when I was a kid and I can say, JSP really doesn't discourage botting at all. Nowadays you can list your items for sale with a bin and use a bot that will automatically send the person a game name and password and then go in and drop the item, once they have sent the FG for the item. You can even say that in the listing itself. The only issue I have with D2JSP is that when ladder resets it's supposed to be a clean wipe for everyone but people with lots of FG can just buy their character full gear without putting anywork into the ladder. Now, I suppose you could argue that a group of friends could trade stuff between games and do the same thing in effect, and maybe JSP could be considered just a larger version of that, but it still goes against the spirit of ladder and for that reason I'm not a huge fan of it in D2R.
Same, access to SoJ/Annihilus became so easy, also I think it breaks the Roleplay aspect of the game. when you are trying to trade with someone and all they say is how much FG it is worth, then both party enter in a Alt/Tab fight trying to deny the other claimed price of the said Item. miss those trading nights on d2 when people would just hangout and flex their gear
this is always a kid argument for illegal trading. DOESN'T MATTER HOW YOU CALL IT trading, exchanging, selling are widely defined activities... so doesn't matter if a group of people decide to do it calling by "lending forever by donation" IT IS WHAT IT IS AND IS WRONG imagine what an genius idea... let stop selling products so we dont need to pay taxes, lets just "donate them" and receive "money donations" as well kids, to dumb to realize they are dumb
No, you can donate in name of someone and he pays you FG, but he doesn't get the money, he only gets a donation in his name which gives him little forum stars (and money laundering). this is done in a special forum where you get access by donating yourself to begin with (purchasing fg). it's also a cheaper way of purchasing FG than directly doing so through the website. But the money always goes to njaugar and njaugar never gives money to anyone, this is the principle in which this site exists in a legal enviroment.
Then don't buy anything, lol. It's way different to earn it rather than buy it but to those who don't want to spend years to make an endgame character. OR BETTER YET, go download hero editor and you have everything for free........ If you want to hard earn it, go hard earn it. People buying it isn't stopping people from hard grinding lol. Games 20 years old, if you're older than 20, you're probably not going to pay to play for the game that's kept your attention for 2 decades.
@@gunzakimbo You said it better than I could have. @Andre, you're not alone though. A lot of people feel that way, and it's also perfectly fine not to use JSP :)
@@Coooley I think the point is that Jsp has always been used to get ahead on ladder resets and I have zero doubt it'll also be used to get ahead on the D2:R release. Being able to transfer wealth across ladders was always the most upsetting thing. It is what it is though and its not the end of the world... unless you focus on it as the root of all your problems in a 21 year old game ;)
@@gunzakimbo problem is, there are people who take ladder competitiveness very seriously. All these gg items requires knowledge of the game, dedication and lots of luck to acquire. This "pay-to-win" option should not be present in ladder and the fg economy effectively bypass ladder reset, because you can just buy your sorc/pally everything it needs to mf, collect runes etc right at day 1. Thus violating the devs intentions of the game and Blizzard's policy. So Blizzard should had made a proper place for trading safely and also help pvp, so people would not go around for ways to get godly gear for fights. Buying d2 items for real money though, for pvm purposes, lol, what a loser. Play another game then.
@@Scott-ly3ch It's bad, because they use Blizzard's own realms to their QoL stuff, without ever consulting or allowed to make any of these. People then get mad at Blizzard, the game, everyone else, when they get scammed by buying duped items from 3rd party guys, which shouldn't be happened anyway. D2jsp should have made their own private realm with all this economy ideas, forums and whatnot and leave alone the game in its oldschool form. I'm fully support mods and all these great functions, I even play single player on PlugY only, but I believe without Blizzard's blessing it's doomed right at conceive.
The fact that it’s a liquid, easily and accurately divisible currency which d2 is lacking - definitely makes it hard to trade without it but there’s nothing stopping you from making an account. However botting and duping were way more influential on the economy
main problem with jsp is the bots, just floods the market with items making manual mf basically usless, also if no one ever donated for FG, there would be no FG, it dosent come out of thin air, someone had to buy it at some point. this video really felt like an ad for jsp, im sure it almost certainty wasnt, but it felt that way.
It changes the game for sure… depends how you like the play the game I guess.. some ppl subjectively like pay to win? I don’t…. But mostly, bots create abundance and scarcity is artificial except for really rare stuff.. thus, bots destroy the market.. trades become sur for magefist because people can, and then other ppl think magefist is worth sur lol!
"Can I buy d2 item with real money on jsp ?" -: "Now you see, I wouldn't exactly phrase it like that..." That's a good sign of a transparent and legitimate business model ;) If this was a trading site, buyable fg would not be a thing. Period.
You can buy d2 items with real money IN d2 too, plenty of trade sites out there. Difference is that you dont NEED to buy FG with $$ you can get it through trading, weak argument.
@@ShaydPoE That's just messed up. "Crime exists therefore it's ok for this public crime ring to exist, because it also has one cookie factory with legitimate workers". Now that's what I call a strong argument.
I think the issue with D2JSP, is that you have people who have amassed 20 years of wealth in forum gold. Which instantly makes D2R an uneven playing field. I wish there was a way to reset the FG for D2R release, or each ladder reset. Maybe even have a seperate currency for D2R... but I know that isn't ever going to happen. I don't like the idea of people being able to just buy anything straight away. I get prices are higher at the start of a ladder, but it doesn't take long to drop off. Especially with all the bots.
It break the rule of ladder where everyone are suppose to start on the same ground. And imo, it is more rewarding to botters that have always tons of items to get rid of.
If you want to play the game solo, you can easely do so. About the Ladder, Blizzard hasnt reseted the ladder in like 3 years? Who the fuck cares about the ladder. The point of the game is to find the prime built. Try to find a perfect RR with cast, str res, life and mana. Thats why people still play the game, finishing first is solething only 0.1% of the pop cares
Although I don't see how buying things late ladder because of previous work you put in really affects anybody, I do agree with your first statement. if buying FG wasn't a thing on the site, I think it'd catch a lot less heat, tbh. Especially whereas a lot of people choose to trade for FG and not buy it.
well just as in a real economy money (fg) has to come at some point and it can't be something just poping like that when making an account while you could imagine stuff (like a mod checking your account and then allowing you a fix amount to counter that) it would make the amount of money in circulation very irregular (not to say, bad stuff) i'm not sure there is any actual way of having this money in the game without a way that at some point 'll bring issue, on this pod probably has the good way with the money coming from the game and being able to be divided and that's probably why bliz if they add any site of trade wont have such a system and therefore let all the space to jsp and tbh just for the protection against scam i prefer jsp by far xD blizzard has never done anything about it and probably wont invest the mod team needed to do so in d2r
Yep, have a buddy who will just pull out his credit card and buy the first of anything he sees. Jsp just facilitates a way for people to pay to win, which is fine if you want to go that route. I personally don’t enjoy that play style though and stay away from games that offer it. I wish they’d just wipe it every season lol
Buying items outside of the platform (i.e. for forum gold or USD) creates an incentive to run bots beyond doing well in the ladder which floods the in-game economy and removes any competitive integrity. If the only reward for botting was to be in-game wealthy or place higher on a single ladder season, there would be 100 times fewer bots, but d2jsp provides a platform for and profits off them. Sure, you aren't violating Blizzard's EULA by trading in-game items for forum gold, but you are feeding the bots.
The Trade button creates the incentive. They knew that when they wrote up the ToS. People will always find a way. And where there's value, there's bots! Remember when eBay was known for selling D2 items? haha Now THAT was a direct violation lol
@@JB6kow00- The only good thing about JSP, is that it brings Forum Gold, which is a currency that is more precise than HRs and whose value will fluctuate with supply and demand since it's not an ingame item. Which means you can actually trade low value items for Forum Gold, while you wouldn't get anything for them with only ingame trading. But other than that, D2JSP is a plague. It encourages botting, cheating, scamming, and makes it so that legit players will never be able to compete. That's not to talk about all the corruption going on in D2JSP, where a lot of people get banned for no reason when they hold a lot of FG, and any appeal to get unbanned are ignored, or met with insults. This also means D2R's economy is already dead even before release, since people with a lot of FG earned in OTHER GAMES will be able to fully gear their paladin as soon as the game is out and the required items are in circulation.
D2JSP logic: -Focus playing on close battle net to be legit, not like open battle net where you can edit your character and use mods and hack. That would be not fair and wouldn't feel rewarding. -Also promote playing as illegitimately as possible: Using exploits, dupe methods, bots, hacks, pay to win, making players having buying power from FG during resets... (also speaking from back in the days) But hey you're not forced to, but you'll still be surrounded by it. Seriously what's the point. That's just an awesome way to push back someone who want to play legit and still be competitive as it just won't be possible unless he also choose to play unfair and cheat. Then they move to PlugY and private servers.
D2jsp is just unfair for players starting out new! A new season should mean everyone starts at 0 and its fair for everyone to climb the ladder, which is no longer true at all. Some players start at 50k+ fg and just buy up all the gear they need to start some hhbots... And THAT ruins the economy a lot! Hope that shit doesn't happen in d2r at all... Any thoughts on that?
This actually was a addressed! If the "rich" people want to acquire all the godly items without doing anything, they gotta pay the "little guy". And then MORE people have a pile of FG. Benefiting "new" players shouldn't come at the expense of punishing old ones. The good thing about having a good trading forum is that the new player who "grinds" and finds items early can quickly become one of the "whales" and fund an entire character worth of gear if he's timely.
Additionally, everyone DOES start at zero on a new ladder. The ladder itself is only about leveling. New items aren't "created" just because someone has FG. They need to be found. If you're rich and lazy, you're gonna pay a hefty price to new, motivated players who find those items. I think to assume that ladder is somehow "unfair" because other people in the world are richer than you is just a terrible way to approach a new ladder. If it was all about being #1 on ladder every season, you'd have one happy person and everyone else would be pissed lol.
@@Coooley the entire concept of buying items for money is wrong. Why are you defending it? Yes fg is real money. Doesnt matter if you sold a shako day 1 for it or bought it. The fg doesnt come magically it is bought with money.
and yet that's not what the site itself stands for today. should we continue judging you forever for your own past mistakes? should we all assume that YOU are incapable of changing, learning, or growing? because that's what you're saying.
@@AlexB-cn2lo interesting how someone who isnt a member of the d2jsp community can say that less than 1% of the people who trade there dont bot. especially when talking to someone who is a member of the community, who doesnt bot, and who is saying that most users dont bot. i wonder who is more credible. and you really made me laugh when you called yourself a "real d2 player". i look forward to posting another comment here to remind you that yes, that is in fact my name you're seeing on top of the hardcore ladder.
@@tbxvividos I've been around JSP for a long time (i.imgur.com/KIPNHSn.png) and yes, there are plenty of legit traders who have never even had botting cross their mind. BUT there are still tons of botters selling botted gear to people who don't bot on jsp. Also if you think Njaguar isn't still scripting bots you're delusional.
Using FG obtained in past ladders for buying new stuff in a reset ladder = transferring items to the new ladder. It's clearly an advantage when you compare it to people who never use FG and actually play the game to obtain their loot and then trade it.
Nobody should get to keep their past progress over a ladder reset. Then what's the fucking point of ladders? Leveling? Well, the hoarders will get 99 faster, buying all the fresh items.
@@FluxeyHnS Same. Seems he can't even comprehend the basic reason for a ladder reset (hint: fresh economy), or likely does but remains willfully ignorant. Doesn't take any big brain moves to see why xferring wealth to a brand new economy is an advantage over vanilla players.
This is so funny, I haven't heard of D2JSP yet until this video, but this is what I'm getting at: You use IRL money to gain forum "currency", then you use the forum currency to buy in game things. So since it's not a direct purchase of the item (Using IRL money only) it's therefore (legally), completely ok to do so. There is also no way to prove that you didn't buy the "currency" and you can just lie and say you traded for it, they don't have your receipts, again (legally) completely un-bannable and ok. Now lets take a (hypothetical) real world example of this situation: Prostitution should be totally legal if a pimp makes a website, and you donate your cash for "pimp points." Then you can use said pimp points to "trade" for sex right? Should be completely ok, it's not like you "bought" the sexual favor in exchange for money, there was a conversion step involved right? A question just in case: I'm assuming you can use that forum gold for other games' items you mentioned, like WoW, correct? If so, it's (basically) an e-organized crime website lol. It's like a can use my "pimp points" for drugs and guns too, not just prostitutes... yikes. I'm low IQ, but again, this looks super shady to me, lmfao.
While I do enjoy your analogy, let's face it if a game is popular enough people selling in-game stuff for real money will pop up.. if that seems weird to you just remember we live in a world where "sleep streams" are a thing xD Some people will try to sell you literally anything.
I guess the difference is the consequence of crimes.. one could be sex trafficking or simply supporting paid sex worker industry.. The other is violating blizzards terms of service for a video game. Frankly, I’m less worried about the criminals breaking and changing the game for everyone else.. through legal loopholes.. more than I am sex trafficking. But yeah I’d say botting creates abundance and JSP makes it pay to win as well.. both breaking a game that has ladder resets for those exact purposes.. Luckily the game is still playable! It’s just.. less than what it used to be right? Most solid ARPG I’ve ever seen tho. I love D2.
or in my opinion, misled by the wrong nature of it existing as a 3rd party gateway into dollar -> FG -> item in game, because in a sense, how do you assign value to FG? How does that stuff come into existance and how did the market shape up to make it so that X FG equals mid season average enigma? It is a currency independent from the game and dependent on it being gained by buying it and how much it has been fueled into the economy. Consider it this way, somebody makes a new currency, but because its made up, it has no value. How do you exactly assign value to that? Its a fiat currency tbh. Its a pyramid scheme in a sense.
You forgot to mention that the same Paul was the creator of the D2BS, the back end system for botting on D2. The proof? It's in the source code when you reverse engineer the system
@@CalculatorTI89 For sure this is exactly the same as botting, the only differnce is you have to pay real money here. Dont have to but most ppl will, This is going to ruin the game for alot of new players. Many comes from D3 cause ppl are so tired of botting and its exactly the same here, This is not good for D2R
@@toprap88 lolol this site has been up for 18 yrs didnt take down the og D2. Also ppl leaving D3 is more indicitive of D3 sucking when compared to D2 or even D1 for that matter
- The game just started, and people with lots of FG already got everything they need... Those who used it before and have accumulated FG have significant advantage. - You can also exchange real money for FG. - And FG transitions through ladders.
It is and it is well known. There are people that literally sell tens of thousands of fg to other individuals to do donations to the website in their name. do enough of this and you become trusted or even a mediator, which opens a new pletora of ways to earn fg and launder harder.
My problem is it being a 3rd wheel in pile, and obviously, in a way, considering FG can be bought, it sort of, assigns a gray market value to items. As much as people might have talked about d3's RMAH, it wasn't surprising given the fact that trading for straight up dollars happens in d2, directly or indirectly (jsp which I would consider the indirect one). I'd consider that the problem stems from d2's economy lacking a sort of "gold of actual trading value" and you use pgems and HRs alot (which are very spatially limited). D2 on ladder is somewhat like a mmorpg in a way, and those tend to have either gold that is the currency used and sometimes auction houses, like runescape added one way later or wow which always had it and which both have gold as the #1 currency. I can like that it might do good for the community, but I don't like the sort of shifty nature of it existing and profiting out of the trade of d2 items (as I said, in a grayish economy). All this just seems to stem from an oversight in how the value of gold (which should be the centralized currency) works in the game, which I kinda personally consider worthless in the long run. Also, considering that you could use FG on multiple different games, it in a small way mixes somewhat unrelated games economies in between. It might not be deep but its still there. Games with trading will always have black or gray markets, but I just view that JSP tends to promote this alongside being a huge community hub which sort of advertises this indirectly. Edit: man I spent like 25 minutes thinking this post, haha.
Don't D2jsp directly sell you FG. Wouldn't that just immediately count as RMT? The whole video should have ended there. Where do we think FG came from? out of thin air? That being said, I used d2jsp back in the day, just like everyone else. Never bought any gold tho.
What people also don't realize is letting d2jsp run the trading market inherently immediately makes the moderators and the website owners the jeff bezos of d2. infinite money to spend and they can spawn in as much currency as they want. forum gold is absolutely worthless because they can spawn infinite amounts of it. that is a huge bubble that people can take advantage of and control the game.
@@burdclanproductions1014 Yeah except that's stupid because it ruins the value of FG, they don't want tons of FG out there. Paul isn't an idiot lol, he's made millions off JSP he's not going to throw that away for one D2 ladder lmfao.
@@heikkihustlaaja9403 Ironically, cryptos like bitcoin have REAL value for precisely this reason. it is not centralized, and nobody just creates an arbitrarily large amount of it whenever they want to.
Shortcut people. Fake reset people. Why would they even bother fake to play a game? Play non-ladder, at your own pace, or singleplayer, its more rewarding than bypass seasons, meh people
The transfer of wealth between seasons didnt even come up in his video. Its obious from his comments on this video that he doesnt even see the the fresh economy aspect as a part of the ladder reset. Hes so in denial its almost funny.
@Zer Schmetterling Yeah its stupid. Like Cooley could easily have had his pro pvp videos on non-ladder, but no. They have to participate in new ladder with their fg. Why? Getting ahead gives them a sense of superiority. Even with bots.
I'd also like to add my 2 cents: 1. forum gold allows people to carry progression from old seasons (or even worse, from other games) into a new one, which is against the sprit of starting a brand new season. 2. It also undoubtedly promotes botting, which creates all kinds of problems such as inflating the economy with botted items/runes, and forcing legit players to play and trade in such economy. 3. not to mention forum gold can be bought with real money, so it is basically pay to have unfair advantages vs legit players.
Exactly this. Also a person with 100k+ forum gold can get a really good lead by buying all the good items as soon as theyre posted. They don't even need to play the RNG game.
currently people are demanding a High rune for something like a middle of the road torch, so they can simply flip that in D2JSP. people who just trade in the game are losing out by a lot, since a typical torch is going for something like 400-600 gold while a rune like Lo is worth 2500 forum gold, so you can easily 4-6x your money, people who just trade in game are losing out and having to pay a lot for things simple because of the D2jsp price. This isn't even in ladder since thats not out yet.
The only thing that makes D2jsp bad is the fact you can buy forum gold with real life currency. Take that out and it's actually an amazing tool, because D2 doesn't actually have currency. Yes, it had SOJs and 3/20/20 SCs for a long time, but thats not feasible. One thing I would have loved to see blizzard do with resurrected was make gold in game hard to get so we'd actually have a currency, but alas, is what it is.
you forgot to talk about ladder reset witch is not a real reset when people have over 1 million forum gold to insta gear thir bots and get more forum gold doing that season than they spend on insta gearing the bots lmao. And Cooley stop liking all the JSP loving comments i see witch side ur on lmaooo xD i like you but dont give props to something that breaks my lover "diablo 2" then i cant like you :(
Even if they took out the currency which is way over priced and berly anyone buys it from the site. People farm their currency just like bots farm gold. And then sell their currencies behind Paul's back. And there are sites that just bot items and gold and sell it too.
@@Gthisen4400 exactly what I think man! ot was a bit too much of a commercial for jsp ignoring the one big shitty thing about it which is what you just described
the only part that can be seen as bad is that people use fg at the beginning of ladder to advance faster, which you could argue is very unfair. since he got the fg last season.
But then they are already in the hole and better hope they get drops........ You can play for years and never find a jah ber etc. The only way is getting a hammerdin going and doing rushes. The comp gets pretty hardcore on that as well.
I used d2jsp like 10 years ago. This time around I realized D2jsp makes the game pay to win... Those with significant fg can use it to multiply it at the start of each ladder. If you don't trade on d2jsp you are at a severe disadvantage in ladder.
Exactly! So saying that JSP doesnt ruin the economy is just a big load of BS. People who have been botting for the last 10+ years are SO far ahead of everyone eles when ladders hits D2R.
same for D2R. I saw guy with enigma during 2nd week of D2R. How is that possible? It is not. He simply bought JAH/BER with his FUGIs. ban all fu ckin fugi-dog-kids, so cringe to watch
@@wojtekmarciniak1173 that might have been me lol, i made enigma 6 days after release, but i started using jsp only 10 days after making enigma. It definitely wasn't the first enigma, although it was maybe one of the first. And even found some cool stuff made enigma early, i realized i was poor compared to jsp guys with 100k fg
It quite simply changes the game from play to win to pay to win. Theres no debating that, when you can buy fg and use it to gear yourself at the start of a ladder how can you say it doesnt ruin the game for the vast majority who have no idea what jsp is or want nothing to do with it
@@xxMurmaiderxx uhhh i have heard many many people over the years do exactly that...when people are presented a shortcut, most take it. Proof: over 20 years of it happening lol
It is more like that you can stack up FG from the previeous ladder and use it to snowball into the new one. But actually I do not care. As this D2R-Ladder shows, you don't even have to think you can compete without a hundred and more people supporting you.
The issue with d2jsp as a long time user is this : When a ladder resets all parties are equal and have no gear. With jsp players can buy their way into progress aka pay to win. This would be fine but coupled with the issue of no proper anti botting control the entire economy is dead within often two weeks outside of rare and sought after jewels/charms. The average player cannot compete with someone running 10+ bots and flooding the market, when multiple users are doing it. I think JSP would be ok if there were no bots in a tightly controlled environment. The upsides to jsp was the ease of trading and not having to always trade : item --> hr --> item.
Tbh, without it, I dont think I'd be able to continue playing on console. Without anyway of communicating/ making trade games.. you're basically just playing single player.
Just bought d2 res today and that's exactly what I realized within the first hour of playing. If anyone has tips on how to have a better time on console let me know.
Ya this is the unfortunate state atm. I'm holding out hope that this issue will be addressed within a couple months. I don't mind playing solo, but making groups and making friends through this game has so much potential.
Hi Coooley, I don't agree with you saying that 6 months into ladder you will get the same rune for shako as in day 1. It's obviously not true - in later stage of ladder you will get random shako for pul, high def for um, because there are plenty of them. I also don't agree that jsp doesn't affect in-game economy. It obviously does, as jsp users are going to sell high-end items just for fg, when hrs aren't enough. As a consequence, people who don't use jsp can't buy those GG items while they could have if all players were trading in game and not for forum gold. Finally, what I don't like about d2jsp is that when someone has tons of fg, they can get all the high-end gear very early after ladder reset, which gives them advantage over "legit" players. If nobody used jsp, there would be equal rules for all.
Never once traded on it. But it is a good source for guides for things like breakpoints and lvl85 areas. The game had a good enough trading system as it was. Didnt take long for someone to join your trade game.
And I think its a bit of a problem that the site benefits from the trading because it sort of "tempts" people into buying that FG, kind of like having a spam bot advertise you because you are using the site.
@@NofirstnameNolastname whats wrong with hrs as currency? Works for the hundreds of thousands of players for 20 years. The few thousand jspers are the minority. And while im speaking on it, why do some of these jsp guys sit in public trade games spamming "x" item for fg... for hours. Those are the type of guys i cant stand. Trade that shit on your site or gtfo out of public trade games if your gonna spam spam spam
The main issue I have with D2JSP has far as I know is FG aren't seasonned : so that make ladder season not really season if you use them since you could start your season with a lot of currency to buy everything, ruining the "economy reset", if FG were accounting for seasons, then I'll have no problem at all, aside from FG being buyable with dollars :/
It's funny how this is the only actual criticism of JSP by informed people and this is the only one he didn't cover. He only covered the myths that people who barely play D2 think.
I think the real problem with d2jsp is not ruining the economy or the TOS. The big issue is that it makes the game P2W. I can spend thousands of hours playing the game and never drop a SOJ (true story, got my first drop at 2015 after 10 years of playing it) or I can just spend a couple of bucks and have my full build ready to go.
@@LiliumCruorem Did that for 20 years. I enjoy the game better when I get actually get cool gear. Also its not a trading mini game. I rush people, I kill ancients, and I kill dclones. I am playing the game just the same as you, just that I gain wealth for everything I do, where you might not find anything for 50 meph runs.
@@Jchueire You wanna talk about time? I rushed people for a week last season and built myself a Dream Paladin. How many weeks or months do you think that would take to build a dream paladin not using d2jsp? I played d2 normally for 20 years. I promise your time is better off spent rushing people on d2jsp and then trading the for the stuff you want. You can still target farm the things that you want, which I do, but you dont have to sit and pray for a high rune to drop.
Overall this isn't a very accurate video. @Coooley is brushing over several points too quickly: * Trading for FG is something that will get you banned in several games -- including Blizzard games -- where the TOS are worded similarly. * The "Scammer Accusations" team is vindictive on the scammer, but they actually do nothing to compensate/help the victim or to get the stolen items returned. These days scams involve quite some social engineering and d2jsp staff are doing a very lackluster job at addressing that. * FG does influence the economy quite severely, as it helps rich players to buy items early on in the ladder. If all trading had to take place inside Diablo II, bots early on in the ladder would be far less powerful, and there would not be such a huge influx of high-end items. * The main criticism against njaguar (Pauly T) is the fact that he earns immense amounts of money selling what's essentially a non-product. This is doubly frustrating if you consider d2jsp's terrible customer service, understaffed moderation team, and njaguar's own lack of loyalty towards his staff and members. The website has the funds to do a great job, but instead it does the bare minimum because it knows it has an unshakeable monopoly.
Ladder resetting should mean something. It's supposed to be an opportunity to get reset the wealthy and get ahead. People don't have to play it, you can keep your wealth. It's not good for new players and it's not good for the game.
I agree it removes the grind...not the difficulty. I've used JSP in the past and let me say this. Once you use it, and have a fully decked out character, the fun is gone unless you are a die hard grinder. So use it at your own risk. If you find it fun to grind endlessly for FG then there you go. Get Paul rich and waste your time.
How farming items for forum gold making Paul rich? When you sell an item to someone for forum gold you don't give Paul any money at all. Berly anyone buys the forum gold from him. And people use bots to make forum gold and then sell it on their own for cheaper. I've actually made thousands along thousands off d2jsp. So it's the other way around bro. If ya wanna far items for forum gold all day your putting money in your own pocket not Paul's and not wasting your time at all.
Even then, JSP is part of the experience for me. Every time I come back, I write down my current FG and consider that zero until I get through hell on 2 or so characters. JSP just makes trading much easier this way. I will agree that people who buy FG do ruin their experience.
I agree with you. I recently used some old forum gold for d2r and it ruined it for me. I since then started playing single player mode and am having so much fun lol.
Lol anyone (including the guy running this channel) that tries to make the argument that there is no advantage to bringing 50k fg into a fresh ladder from previous play is being extremely dishonest. It's definitely cheating in terms of climbing a ladder. There isn't a sound argument to say otherwise. Jsp ruins the game for me. New ladder is coming and I don't even want to play it because of this exact reason. I wish blizzard would add a ssf ladder because climbing the ladder with the 90% that use jsp and have wealth the minute they create that first character is such a drag to me. D2 is one of my favorite all time games but it's always been the same issue, jsp and other forms of cheating fuck everything up. I've never used jsp because of this reason, but it still ruins my experience when others do.
It can be pay to win. I think what you're getting at though, is i could have found a couple shakos and a Tals armor at the release of D2R. Sell it for FG, and jump into ladder and trade with a lucky player for a day 1 ladder shako. It's not p2w, but it is the Wallstreet of the game. 3k FG is 100irl. 3k FG won't get you THAT far on d2jsp.
It ruins the nostalgic feel of bartering and turns trading into a convenient easy way to use useless items, gain knowledge of prices, and as you said, pay to buy those items you can't get to drop for you. Buying anything godly on jsp is seriously expensive and seeing as how there are tons of other websites that are solely for the purpose of "pay to win," I don't think it does much harm to the economy. The thing I don't like about it is how you are aware that if you find something awesome early in ladder, it is financially smarter to sell it for fg and buy a cheaper one later when prices drop. That's kind of the case whether your selling it for fg or runes (which is really a hard concept for new players to get a grasp on.)
Its bad for the game because it streamlined paying real money for items, I don't see how that is ever OK but you seem pretty invested in jsp so I get it. Fg also overlaps in games, I once sold a rare name I had from the path of exile closed beta for 1k fg, that could be used to buy an item early ladder in d2 which makes no sense. I have played private ladders without bots And jsp and it felt better, I hope d2r fixes this issue because else it's just the same old.
If Blizzard changed their ToS tomorrow and said, "no JSP for D2R", I wouldn't bat a f'n eye lol. I have literally NO ulterior motives here. People don't generally spend real money for FG. Sorry if that wasn't clear.
@@НиколаДимитров-щ9у Bots were going to explode one way or another. Look at every single MMO game. WoW has millions of bots, not because of JSP. This is a dumbass argument. And no, a lot of people don't buy FG, especially for a game like Diablo.
@@kevinreilly6623 The FG still partially comes from real life currency. And just because bots will be there does not mean that because JSP provides an environment from which bots benefit from should be ignored.
@@nurman666 In that case any trading forum should be flagged as it'll benefit bots because well, bots need to trade in order to be profitable. JSP currently doesn't encourage botting, and there is really nothing JSP can do about botting. That blame should be geared 100% towards blizzard and the fact that it's put on JSP is just dumb. Also FG is only from real life currency if you want it to be. I made well over a few thousand$$ worth of FG all by not dropping a dime on anything other than a videogame itself. So it's easily possible for anyone that really understands trading and how to play the game. The one thing I used to really love about JSP is it connects all games currency into one. Back when I played RS, once I quit RS I was able to convert all of that gold into counter strike gear. Once I was done with Counterstrike I was able to convert that back to D2, etc etc. That's what the main goal of the site is nowadays.
D2jsp was created before the crypto currency surge. In light of crypto being a real currency, you could make an argument that fg skirts that line pretty closely.
except "history" isn't the same as a blockchain and its not a p2p currency, these are open source trades with no privacy and no real value except for what players give them as they only serve one purpose. Crypto fulfills multiple outlets, is secured constantly and is 100% p2p (peer to peer)
@@TPGodlike theline I was referring to being skirted was being considered currency, not being crypto. Real money changes hands, and you get a digital item whos only purpose is to purchas and sell digital property with other people. Very similar to real world currency. Only key difference is that it cannot be exchanged 2 way with other currency.
@@aquaticcactus9897 "For Now". Just wait until Democrats either harness it for their sinister bidding, or ban it for being a "high capacity assault currency".
@@lordkrythic6246 its almost like the U.S constitution allows the people to overthrow governments when abusing their power :) I'm not even American and I know that
Found this video via Google looking to learn about the real story with jsp. Unfortunately this is clearly a very biased piece that approaches the easiest to deflect criticisms without touching on any aspect of real controversy: RMT, rollover between seasons AND games, and essentially rewarding one man for building an empire off of botting.
Ofc, when they deflect, it's because they are in on it. But... even though it's even more futile, one should direct their anger at the ones who create the demand for it. Which would be us, the players. This wouldn't be a thing if there weren't so many of us who rather open their wallet to get their way.
This assumes that all or at least most D2 players even use D2JSP. I know a good portion don't and there lies the imbalance. There is no way you can justify this to be %100 balanced across the board, period. Players that use it compared to players that don't obviously have more of an edge of playing the game and acquiring items.
I am staying away from jsp. Working in finance, the idea of a third party, privately owned trade forum that emits its own money-based currency raises SO MANY red flags... :)
The wild west of gaming. A lot of people who complain were never cut out to play at this level anyway. Botting/scamming/trading never ruined the game for someone who wants to play it as it was meant to be played. The feeling of finding a truly rare item and using it, is worth far more than its D2jsp value, this is why we play Diablo.
now that ladder only items are going to non-ladder, I would imagine a lot of players will not play ladder anymore and this will affect d2jsp somewhat. I know I don't plan on playing ladder - I never gave 2 shits about the leveling race. I just played solo 98% of the time anyway.
My take is that forum gold de-values player accomplishments. When I see someone with a really rare item I love knowing that person put in work to either farm efficiently and find it or build up enough wealth through in game trading to get there. Either way in this scenario time playing game = progress. In the scenario with forum gold a player could swipe their credit card and obtain said item, I personally feel that takes away from the accomplishments of other players since money in your bank = progress.
I appreciate your respectful response! Two things: 1.) a vast majority of people on JSP do NOT pay for FG. They trade their items. So it's similar to the in-game grind with just a better format. 2.) While I also think it's good to grind for items, most of the people that use JSP are duelers and are not concerned about MF'ing all of the items required to duel at the highest level of play. All the money in the world can't make you a better dueler. That comes down to skill.
@@Coooley "a vast majority of people on JSP do NOT pay for FG" source: tRuSt mE bRo 🤡 The site was literally set up by people who provided scripts for Diablo automation. Using JSP is like trading with convicted [rule breakers] and telling others that it's OK because they [broke rules] 10 years ago, but they definitely don't break any rules today for sure. It's embarrassing that someone with 60k subscribers promotes such a website. On top of that, as many people have said, you can literally carry your gold from season to season. Only an absolute moron would think that is okay. But what can I expect from someone who plays D2 PVP. 🤡
But please don't forget nowadays I have no that much time than I had at age of 16. :D So maybe it's "takeaway of the hard part", but I don't mind if a nice trading community is exist.
I wouldn't play D2 if there wasn't a d2jsp like service for it. D2 trading is hot ass, was barely workable even 20 years ago. I have never been scammed from d2jsp, aside from my tendency to overpay because I am impatient...
FG allows for a possibility to buy in-game items for real world money. This alone takes away the concept of struggle of grinding for items if you have money which consequently ruins the game.
@@WayneTwitch yes, but you can as well buy FG for real money which means if you have money you do not need to grind like the one who does not have the money.
JSP sucks, had one of the first bots distributed all over the site. trades current season items for " forum gold" to later buy the next seasons item. Ugh the whole point of seasons is to start fresh, not accumulate wealth to buy shit each season. There will be a new trading website for D2:R and ill never use that trash d2jsp
Also, Jsp is the most important Diablo 2 community. It’s like the bible of Diablo 2. You find every possible builds, guides, pvp tournaments etc. Basicly everything about d2. And the trading is very effective and simple.
Falls into the same category as buying gold. The Blizzard Game master SoO may have changed since 2019 but it something like: Report filed, Game master tracks reported accounts game logs, investigates accounts with shared trade logs. Issues Suspensions/Bans. Blizzard has also had Game master teams do 'sting' operations for months collecting account information before issuing mass Bans. See the bot Ban waves of 2019 and 2020 for example.
This video comes across like some dude with a lot of FG completely ignoring the main problem with D2JSP and trying to convince himself and others that it's "fine"
I think the most interesting part of JSP now that i made an account and looked into it is that i can transfer progress from one game to another. They support trading on 3 different games i play, i could easily sell stuff on one game and buy on another with forum gold. Its like crypto for gaming, decentralized currency that can be converted into any other type of game currency i desire. I can see how this can be problematic though. I think the worst is seeing players with hundreds of thousands of forum gold able to buy all the top gear in the first week of D2R being released. It essentially allows people to start D2R without any work, right where they left off.
Anyone saying that this doesn't affect the economy in D2R is a shill. There's absolutely no reason people that have been collecting forum gold for roughly twenty years, across multiple games should be able to dictate the price of items in a brand new game. Completely kills the economy. People reference forum gold constantly across D2R subreddit's for the prices of items. I'm already getting bored with D2R because of this reason.
My only gripe with D2JSP is that it ruined some of the joy of D2R's launch. Having everybody on more or less equal power levels, pushing together to finish hell as a team, was pure joy in public games. But within a few days, there were already people who whaled their FG on D2JSP for whatever good loot was available, and were able to carry entire full games practically solo. It isn't a big deal, and we all knew it would happen, but it's a thing.
Never used or heard of jsp but it sounds like a p2w aspect which is ok I guess. I'm just sticking to self made/found and local trading like I did back in the day. The whole point of the game in my opinion is the grind for the item. Without the grind there is no point for me to keep coming back.
100%. Hadn't played D2 in years. Decided to play a bit during the pandemic for funsies. Since I still had a key, I figured what the heck, I'll buy some fg and buy some gg stuff to gear up my characters to avoid the grind. Completely sucked all the fun out of the game, and I was bored in a month. The chase for those pieces of end game gear is what makes D2 so addictive and fun . In my opinion, using real money and fg to gear up characters just ruins the experience. The grind is the game. Enjoy it.
@@hardcaliber19 happy to ear people that think like me. Many people don't understand that the real joy is the grind and the aspiration to get something... not to have it. A lot of people are clueless about simple concept like this and wonder why they lose interest after buying all the gear.
@@warrivthetraveller5415 Here's the real question though: If you know what makes you happy, then why do you care what other people are doing within the Terms of Service? I've never used JSP, dont intend to. But they dont come into my games and hold them hostage until I buy something. They dont have a barrier preventing me from using the site if I wished to. I also feel no need to spit from great heights at people who enjoy playing a trading and economy simulation style of game, just because it isnt what I value, and imply they dont understand how to enjoy things because they arent enjoying them my way. So why do you?
Paul Talborg (njaguar) is literally printing money by selling Forum Gold and for that reason alone d2jsp is a bad actor. The currency there is NOT community driven.
I'm a small player, a few hundred forum golds. Been trading on D2jsp for the last 2 years and for new ladder releases. I wish i had used it before. Never been scammed on d2jsp, much safer IMO. I got scammed so much in diablo trading games.
Same. This is why I didn't buyed D2R... there's no mod like PD2 and PoD wich ban people who use RMT or D2jsp. People defending D2jsp are people who already have gold on it and have a bias toward the whole argument. What about Im 100% sure coooley has buyed fg but won't admit it.
@@warrivthetraveller5415 pd2 and pod are hardly d2 with all the mods they have its like you guyss want shit for free LMAO why not just play single player?
Sorry but this video doesnt change my opinion, just because in real world legal terms they arent breaking any rules I still think D2jsp is what is wrong with D2. They completely ruin the challenge of climbing the ladder not to mention the economy of the ladder from the get go and is 100% used by botters
Lest say D2jsp close down, then what? What chances? the same P2W factor is still present just not on D2jsp but on all the thousands of China farming sites. When a game have a trade economy the game will have a possible way to use P2W and it will never go away. Just don’t use it and stop the crying.
jsp dont make it easier for ppl to climb.....i was once No 2 on ladder as a full legit player 8 years back(lvl 98 b4 i took a break from playing))......i had however a very active friend tagging with me in my every runs which did provide conviction aura(boosting my entire party dmg insanely).....maybe the name "Deception" may be familiar if you played back then....i was hosting these "Death Chaos-XXX" runs....around lvl 87 i took a minor break from lvling runs to farm for a Torch as exp gain gets much slower around there and death penality is extreme if die...so stats bonus and increased kill speed was a neat gain...............just play a lot....get your 4 sp..60 life..15 stats and resists bonus from the quests....get yourself a lvling partner thats active to play with you......1 get to be the hammerdin with conc aura and 1 get to be the hammerdin with conviction aura(whichever of the 2 that is less casual should be the conc pally) once infinity is created for the most active player......help your buddy farm essences so he can reset points back into his own Conc aura and help him get his own infinity for merc(dont be the jerk not filling his part of the share).....extra speed bonus if you get a sorc "friend" for maggot lair teleporting(the sorc player should not be your end goal teamate ;) just early game if you dont wanna feel bound like ya own him XD) having a pact with 1 player is enough.....dont need to make a pact with 2 ppl......Insight case.....there should be ton of ppl running around with a merc that has it.....oh and know whats the + of a friend running a high lvl conv ? uber Meph aura denied if conv = lvl 25 or above :) so chilling uber run as a team
I have been playing d2 & LOD since the day it released. Up until about 2 days ago, I never once touched D2jsp. Because of this video I have gotten on the site and completed a handful of trades. And for the first time in my entire career on d2, I have a fully built hammerdin online, for the first time since release. And it feels amazing to finally be able to trade all those items and "probably useful to someone else" items that have clogged my account with 15 mules and completely full of useless junk stash tabs. Thanks man. Lol I never would've done it if not for this video. Opens up a whole new reason and enjoyment of the game I've no-lifed for over 20 years xD
I avoided D2JSP for more than a decade, and used to criticize people who used it. I started using it last ladder season cause the trade rooms were trash and it turns out it provided exactly the things I wanted: the ability to trade mid level items for currency and work way my up to the high runes I need, and also a way to provide services without getting scammed. Whenever you rush someone for a forge you never know if they will just leave before doing the forge. Ive never once been scammed on a rush on d2jsp and its also how I make most of my wealth. I think its also worth mentioning, that just because you CAN buy forum gold, doesnt mean you have to. Trade stuff and do services and earn the FG yourself and its basically just a more stream lined version of what you already do in d2 anyway. Id love to see a pro d2jsp video in the future, although im sure a lot of people would rage in the comments about a video like that.
Sorry Bro, stop defending a system of Hackers and botters! As someone mentioned it before, the point of having a ladder is to start from scratch and not with thousands of fg to buy shit. Fg should be deleted after every ladder! Ffs
The thing that held back D2JSP for me how is dogshit the 'community' is. They treat anyone with less experienced game knowledge without absolute disgust and most threads end up in some petty argument, name calling blah blah blah. It's so UNINVITING for new players, how could they possibly grow?
As one who was playing this game and suffering the downside of not being a botter when D2JSP started handing out all those botting programs, I can absolutely confirm they almost singlehandedly destroyed the games economy.
Yeah, it was awful. People used to come into my games and talk to me and give me end game gear for nothing. They totally ruined the economy by letting people actually have the items they wanted to play with. Thankfully we're protected from those bad, bad men now and have to go back to the honorable way of getting the items we want, by taking advantage of people from countries with currencies in freefall and get them to to farm them for us. The sky is still where it's always been, chicken little.
Very good video outlines that blizzard can't do a whole lot but it still bothers me a lot that my buddy spends 300 bucks and he gets himself an enigma and anything else he needs for his teleporting Paladin and now he makes all my hard work look irrelevant because I don't want to spend the money and then it takes a lot of the hard work that I put into finding my items look like a big waste of time. And subsequently since he bought all that gear he doesn't feel like the game is challenging and he doesn't play as much so the player retention is not quite there a body would love that gear but a person who wants to be a wallet Warrior they they spend their money and then they're gone worse we want players not people who buy the way through the game
Awesome video on d2jsp - very good points for both sides! You touched on all of the major points when it comes to Diablo II, however there's one section that really stands out against the favor of d2jsp- the gambling section. Sure there are table games like poker or blackjack, but there's also games that use random number generators, dice games and SPORTS BETTING. This is where the majority of the super rich get their income - why make 10 Forum Gold (FG) on a few in-game trades when you can bet 10k FG in one shot? Because of the volume of FG and the willingness to trade it for items in Diablo II, there is effectively limited stimulation of the in-game economy. Basically, FG functions as a "premium" in-game currency that can only redeemed on d2jsp. Now I understand this game came out wayyy before In App Purchases (IAP) were a thing, which is one of the big reasons why d2jsp got big. But if Blizzard decided to add IAP and premium, tradable currency....would d2jsp and Forum Gold still be such a big thing in the near future? Great content btw, subbed
you make it sound like d2jsp has a betting UI with sports and poker and shit. Lol. No. All the things you talk about are bets BETWEEN USERS simply done in a forum where people can put their FG where their mouth is. People play all sorts of things for Fg, from chess to mobile games.
I dislike the trading side of jsp, but the service side is clutch. I can host leech games where people join to get xp from me farming chaos, and I get all the drops of a Players 8 game.
bro...... forum gold does not reset like the ladder.... when the new ladder happens you can use golf you got from last ladder to buy the best stuff... which make laddering pay to win which is unfiar
@@ineedcoffee2575 lol i know it wont ever go away lmao and i am not butt hurt over it... it is what it is... that doesn't change the fact that it would be better with out it.... jsp is probably convenient as fuck for a lot of people ( people making videos ) and that is totally fair.... but it also takes away the fun of playing the game when you think about it .... but whatever it is mostly opt in.... it effects the fairness of ladder rests.... but very few people care about that....
Some pretty poor arguments here. I can respect that people want Diablo 2 trading to be contained within the game but thats a thing that's hard to realize. The notion that someone with a significant amount of FG doesn't have a huge advantage by being able to trade FG for good items early in a Ladder Reset is disingenuous. I have traded across multiple games using JSP. I have turned work in Diablo 2 into an advantage in other games, such as Diablo 3 and Blade and Soul. I would rather have JSP exist without FG. A widely used trading forum is enough for me, especially with D2 Ressurected coming up, I'd rather the playing field be even for everyone.
Just annoys me how players with fg have the advantage at the start. That and most players who want to trade always ask for fg instead of items making it more difficult to trade the normal way. Mainly referring to consoles btw. Can't create\join games like on pc so consoles players are almost forced to use jsp.
D2jsp supports some bottling like auto shops. Where you send FG with the comment buy/itemID#/realm/game/game password. And within 10-20 seconds a bot arrives to drop off that item. Boting ruins d2jsp.
I recently started playing Diablo 2 resurrected. For me. Diablo II is a single player game. Buying items for real life currency is essentially cheating your self. Going about to get items from others which might as well have duped items or used botting programs to get such said items is also, again, cheating your self. The game should be about prestige. Hard work should be reckognized as such and should not be inflated away by exploits of third and some times second parties. So for me. I don't trade. Everything I have on my characters I farmed my self. If you traded items I see it on par with buying items for real life currency. You are essentially benefiting from other's hard or not so hard work. In the end the only person you cheat is your self. If you feel the need to use real life currency to buy an in- game item in a single player game then ask your self this question: Why am I playing this game ? Is buying items for real life currency on par with using cheat codes? If you could hand your self an item by typing in a command in the command console, would you do it? Does the game lose or gain appeal to you ?
In fairness not everyone buys their currency. I self found 3 Lo's. Two got rolled into griefs and the third I sold on jsp. I then took that fg and reinvested into the character. So you can make a barb let's say. You find yourself a night wings or deaths fathom. Instead of sitting on it or trying to make another character with 1 GG piece of gear. Jsp allows you to convert it into a third resource (fg) which you can then use to improve your character, in this case the barb. Granted you can do this in game now with high runes, but are you gonna give that ber/jah/sur or whatever, that you just traded that fathom for to someone for a grief pb? No you'd be overpaying. Fg allows you that wiggle room.
@@kevinreilly6623 I held off on replying to this for awhile, but tonight I just got the itch. They have. They have changed the TOS multiple times. Maybe not specifically in regard to D2JSP, and honestly I don't think they should, nor would I care if they did. I don't use JSP. Never have. But unlike all the JSP shamers out these days crying about "It ruins the ladder" I don't think it does. I don't think it impacts other players at all, so again... I don't care about JSP's ongoing existence. That being said. I still chuckle at the blanket statement that "Blizzard can't ban your account." Blizzard banned people for using loader for the no cd patch after dropping the update that enabled native no cd support. I was caught in that crossfire. I still had loader installed after an update, but didn't use any of the other features, so I was blissfully ignorant of the coming storm. They've changed the TOS on their other games throughout the years as well. I just find that statement silly, hence the chuckle.
I always knew it wasn't against the ToS. I also always used D2JSP back in the day and I am not ashamed about it at all. However, I am (much) older now and I know a thing or two about how to manage in-game economies. Such as the ones in MMOs. I now hold the belief that any kind of trading/buying/selling of goods/currency/items outside of the game is something that should be discouraged. To the point where there is no need for it to be punishable through legal actions but rather the players themselves would feel no need to. It is in the developer's best interest to keep a tight grip on the economy in certain ways while having it be absolutely free and open within the game it self in other ways. This ultimately promotes the most healthy environment. While I believe in - to a degree- free economies in games, we must also realize that however much a game world's economy might resemble a real life economy, you're still playing a game that is not the real world and different rules of "living" apply in that game than in real life. As such, a measure of control is always needed. More so than for real life economies. One way to do that is to create a game mode that doesn't allow trading with people outside of the games you create. "Solo self-found" as people call it these days, with some minor lifting of restrictions so that friends can play the self-found game together. This is something I would like to see added to the game post-release. Anyone who isn't interested in that can just play the normal modes and trade at their heart's content on D2JSP.
Technically, blizzard can terminate your account at any time for any reason. So if they did decide to ban you, they probably just wouldnt list TOS as the reason. I'm indifferent about jsp either way
For those of us from the original days of D2 online, we knew D2JSP as D2 Javascript Parser, which was essentially one of the easiest, earliest bots to set up. The entire D2JSP community came out from a community of botters that relentlessly botted D2, until Blizzard added features like Realm Down. I haven't been around that community since the early 2000's, but I can tell you that it's origins certainly weren't innocent.
Reminds me of the days of runescape botting and how a group had there own redemtion arc to it
Well I had real friends, many friends, we played LAN always and often.
@@pibstarr system could use a change
Hot take. Most if not all loot grinder games that does a significant effort in removing botting, all died out before d2.
Its an RMT site plain and simple. Otherwise it would work like the PoENinja
D2JSP does effect the pricing of gear on ladder resets though. It effects the pricing of extremely sought after items like high runes, things that in vanilla D2 are EXTREMELY hard to find, and are way harder to find than a random unique like a shako, making it so those that have amassed massive amounts of forum gold on previous ladders to quickly obtain these items by outbidding everyone who does not have forum gold, increasing the price of these items in the early ladder, exactly when everyone is looking for these.
For the one person who actually finds a high rune and trades it for a lot of forum gold, they may think its fine, but there are many other people that are being outbid for these items by someone who isn't even playing the game and will probably feel a bit salty about it.
The idea of having a trade site is fine, but the rolling over forum gold on ladder resets is a problem.
Can you identify who the "victim" is when someone buys an item for tons of FG? Who gets hurt by this and how?
@@Coooley Sure! The "victim" in this scenario are all the other people who are starting the season fresh, 0 fg, being outpriced by these whale D2JSP users.
I'll give you an example. you have say 10 people who are playing the game normally, not using D2JSP, or all have virtually 0 fg, another person who finds a high rune, and lastly someone who is a D2JSP fg user who has rolled over their fg from last season.
The person who finds a Jah or Ber rune, obviously in a normal circumstance, they would be able to only trade this item to the 10 people who are playing the game normally, maybe some of them have a few mid runes, or a shako, or a nice eschuta to trade for it, something that they worked for in game.
In comes this D2JSP whale who can just offer an insane fg offer, one that is impossible to obtain without rolling over their fg from last season. This whale can corner the market for high runes, especially in the early to mid ladder. This scenario makes it so the normal players who are starting out fresh have almost no chance of getting a high rune or high value item until later on in the season.
These whales can keep doing this every season. They also corner the market for high priced dueling gear driving the prices up higher and higher, because only players like them can afford it.
@@LeeL29 While we completely disagree on this topic, I do respect your kind and articulate approach :)
@@Coooley Np!
@@Coooley One example I've seen a few times, is in terms of dueling. Say you have several legit players who have dueling gear obtained by magic finding or trading, things would be relatively balanced overall. Their gear is average with some item slots being great and some being more temporary. Then you have one player who is a D2jsp "whale". They're using mostly best in slot items and overall have more value from their equipment than all of the other players combined. In this scenario the players who started the ladder from scratch as intended, are essentially victims to the whale's large forum gold expenditures.
D2JSP ruins the entire concept of ladder resets. Gaining wealth in a previous ladder is not supposed to translate over to the next, fresh ladder.
For anyone about to say "but RMT ruins it too because you can just buy the rarest items with real money instead of FG then" - you're trying to justify a bad concept/thing with another, worse one. Using that kind of logic will also lead to a conclusion of accepting botting and hacking.
Without reading D2s ToS (so not knowing if this is already covered), I'd hope they add similar rules to Path of Exile about in-game goods (be it items or services) being prohibited to be exchanged for anything but in-game goods. This would make it very clear you're only allowed to trade in-game. It would also get rid of the future massive giveaway streams where the content creator is directly benefitting from giving away in-game items and goods for viewership (ad revenue)/subs.
So the concept of ladder resets are for people to level and be "ranked" on a ladder. Llamas team got top spots early on. No jsp to acquire their items. They killed it! I guess I fail to see how having fg (or even buying items later in ladder) really hurts anyone. Now if you're saying that ppl buy items early on to bot and climb the ladder, well... That's exactly what I talked about in the video. Hoping they keep a closer eye on this in D2R.
@@Coooley Just because they didn't make use of the power from previous ladder's wealth (which they probably didn't even have due disliking JSP and not using it as a result to begin with(?)), doesn't mean it doesn't matter. With enough competition - where you'd have a dedicated trader buying all the items for the pushing team for example - it would make a massive difference.
Just looking ladder resets' sole purpose of being only about pushing top ranks is either very narrow-minded or to purposefully ignore this argument - big(gest) part of a new ladder is obtaining items (fresh start in a game based around items, after all..) to help you towards whatever goals you might have. Go ask someone like Breivik what he thinks about the concept of wealth transferring from old ladder to another.
For some, making your character tanky/fast/high damage enough to not worry about dying while pushing towards 99. For others, that could be PVP. For some it might be just to acquire as much wealth as possible, and obtaining the BiS farming gear early will make a major difference.
Having access to (tens/hundreds of) thousands FG before the first item even dropped in a ladder creates an absurd inbalance between the two types of players where one has wealth from the past allowing them to easily buy past the legit ladder players.
For people wishing to keep getting items and not resetting their (and everyone elses') economy - there's this thing called non-ladder.
If there was a way of resetting everyone's FG at the start of the ladder (or make old FG not be able to work for new ladder items) I'd probably feel less strongly about this - but that is near impossible due to the inherit start of obtaining the first FG to begin trading with which is done by buying it with real money.
@@Karvarousku Good points man! This guy is a legend btw in poe and pd2.
@Coooley I watched your stream and you told that the comments here are ignorant, yet you cant address this topic at all. Just ignoring it lol.
@@НиколаДимитров-щ9у if i remember back in the day seeing someone in full gear was crazy, but its not like RMT and mass bots were not happening. when i was about 12 i actually went and paid for a eth breath of the dieing off some site for like $10 and nagelrings for like a buck because i was young and dumb. point being that its always been super easy to pay to win in d2. for refrence this was like 2003-4ish
@@Karvarousku But doesn't that go back to the point the Cooley made. Wealth being kept from a previous ladder to a new one for a particular player only affects the economy of D2jsp and its users - not the economy of the players in the game. So while a player may use this forum gold from previous ladders to buy items early in the next ladder - it really only has an effect on his own gameplay, not anyone elses.
I guess one could argue that the usage of d2jsp limits the supply of items available for in-game trading, though. Because if 90% (cooked number) of players use D2JSP for all their trades, there's only 10% left to trade with in the game.
I think the big problem is, it carries over FG from previous ladders...
I made a fuck ton of fg from D2 was making 3k per hour doing g rush thats like $80 usd a hour.
Then dont :-D
@@bigtfishbone what do you mean don't...? What i was implying was i don't appreciate having a race with someone who can buy a full set of gear on day 1 while we start from scratch...
@@templar1115 exactly. Ladder is almost here and I don't even want to play it. Jsp has always been one of the biggest problems with d2. Absolutely ruins the game for me. Didn't matter if I'm not using it cause everyone else is!
clearly not . No jsp ? no FG ? No problem i can buy item's like in jsp but in others forums , discord or sites like ebay etc ... with real money or some others money like fg. So that change nothing. And if you destroy Jsp , 10 other jsp gonna be built ;) its like dealers in real life. The big dealer go to the jail => 5 others dealers pop in one week ^^ .
I used to bot in D2LOD when I was a kid and I can say, JSP really doesn't discourage botting at all. Nowadays you can list your items for sale with a bin and use a bot that will automatically send the person a game name and password and then go in and drop the item, once they have sent the FG for the item. You can even say that in the listing itself.
The only issue I have with D2JSP is that when ladder resets it's supposed to be a clean wipe for everyone but people with lots of FG can just buy their character full gear without putting anywork into the ladder. Now, I suppose you could argue that a group of friends could trade stuff between games and do the same thing in effect, and maybe JSP could be considered just a larger version of that, but it still goes against the spirit of ladder and for that reason I'm not a huge fan of it in D2R.
Same, access to SoJ/Annihilus became so easy, also I think it breaks the Roleplay aspect of the game. when you are trying to trade with someone and all they say is how much FG it is worth, then both party enter in a Alt/Tab fight trying to deny the other claimed price of the said Item. miss those trading nights on d2 when people would just hangout and flex their gear
@@wezzyuwezzuy9338 roleplay lmao
Everything you said in the first half of this post is completely made up. I think you mighy have the wrong site here my friend.
@@cameronfoley3792 if you say so
Correct me if I am wrong, but can't you "donate" with your credit card and in return you get forum gold?
I have no idea. Never bought fg, personally. I don't think many people actually buy it, tbh
this is always a kid argument for illegal trading.
DOESN'T MATTER HOW YOU CALL IT
trading, exchanging, selling are widely defined activities... so doesn't matter if a group of people decide to do it calling by "lending forever by donation" IT IS WHAT IT IS AND IS WRONG
imagine what an genius idea... let stop selling products so we dont need to pay taxes, lets just "donate them" and receive "money donations" as well
kids, to dumb to realize they are dumb
@@projectdiablo2608 what do you mean? at 9:40 he correctly states that you can buy FG with cash
@@Coooley No offense, but this is a pretty essential aspect of the whole d2jsp-controversy.
No, you can donate in name of someone and he pays you FG, but he doesn't get the money, he only gets a donation in his name which gives him little forum stars (and money laundering).
this is done in a special forum where you get access by donating yourself to begin with (purchasing fg). it's also a cheaper way of purchasing FG than directly doing so through the website. But the money always goes to njaugar and njaugar never gives money to anyone, this is the principle in which this site exists in a legal enviroment.
Or some people might just think that d2jsp ruins the game by making it pay to win.
Then don't buy anything, lol. It's way different to earn it rather than buy it but to those who don't want to spend years to make an endgame character. OR BETTER YET, go download hero editor and you have everything for free........ If you want to hard earn it, go hard earn it. People buying it isn't stopping people from hard grinding lol. Games 20 years old, if you're older than 20, you're probably not going to pay to play for the game that's kept your attention for 2 decades.
@@gunzakimbo You said it better than I could have. @Andre, you're not alone though. A lot of people feel that way, and it's also perfectly fine not to use JSP :)
@@Coooley I think the point is that Jsp has always been used to get ahead on ladder resets and I have zero doubt it'll also be used to get ahead on the D2:R release.
Being able to transfer wealth across ladders was always the most upsetting thing.
It is what it is though and its not the end of the world... unless you focus on it as the root of all your problems in a 21 year old game ;)
@@gunzakimbo problem is, there are people who take ladder competitiveness very seriously. All these gg items requires knowledge of the game, dedication and lots of luck to acquire.
This "pay-to-win" option should not be present in ladder and the fg economy effectively bypass ladder reset, because you can just buy your sorc/pally everything it needs to mf, collect runes etc right at day 1. Thus violating the devs intentions of the game and Blizzard's policy. So
Blizzard should had made a proper place for trading safely and also help pvp, so people would not go around for ways to get godly gear for fights.
Buying d2 items for real money though, for pvm purposes, lol, what a loser. Play another game then.
@@Scott-ly3ch It's bad, because they use Blizzard's own realms to their QoL stuff, without ever consulting or allowed to make any of these.
People then get mad at Blizzard, the game, everyone else, when they get scammed by buying duped items from 3rd party guys, which shouldn't be happened anyway.
D2jsp should have made their own private realm with all this economy ideas, forums and whatnot and leave alone the game in its oldschool form.
I'm fully support mods and all these great functions, I even play single player on PlugY only, but I believe without Blizzard's blessing it's doomed right at conceive.
Honestly, botting, duping and d2jsp were the things that utterly ruined the D2 economy.
yes but pretty much botting on a grand scale id say
@@lVlaciek yes because they’re the ones generating the runes into the economy it’s definitely the worst.
Then farm and dupe. You're not forced to buy or trade with anyone.
I love botting and d2jsp, I don't agree with duping though.
As someone whose played HC way before JSP it definitely affected that economy in game.
Tell me about it one of the best and worst was d2jsp on hc
You misspelled bots
The fact that it’s a liquid, easily and accurately divisible currency which d2 is lacking - definitely makes it hard to trade without it but there’s nothing stopping you from making an account. However botting and duping were way more influential on the economy
Did not affect how i played or how i found stuff in game. Economy affected ?? Not for me
If by making the economic value of items more transparent and harder to scam, then yes... that it did...
main problem with jsp is the bots, just floods the market with items making manual mf basically usless, also if no one ever donated for FG, there would be no FG, it dosent come out of thin air, someone had to buy it at some point. this video really felt like an ad for jsp, im sure it almost certainty wasnt, but it felt that way.
Exactly, he’s completely off.
he's shilling for jsp and also deleting comments
Most of the bots are from chinese sites that sell actual items
It changes the game for sure… depends how you like the play the game I guess.. some ppl subjectively like pay to win? I don’t….
But mostly, bots create abundance and scarcity is artificial except for really rare stuff.. thus, bots destroy the market.. trades become sur for magefist because people can, and then other ppl think magefist is worth sur lol!
"Can I buy d2 item with real money on jsp ?"
-: "Now you see, I wouldn't exactly phrase it like that..."
That's a good sign of a transparent and legitimate business model ;)
If this was a trading site, buyable fg would not be a thing. Period.
who cares, I sell my items for currency then buy something else in smaller chunks with that curency. If people want to spend money let them.
You can buy d2 items with real money IN d2 too, plenty of trade sites out there. Difference is that you dont NEED to buy FG with $$ you can get it through trading, weak argument.
@@ShaydPoE That's just messed up.
"Crime exists therefore it's ok for this public crime ring to exist, because it also has one cookie factory with legitimate workers".
Now that's what I call a strong argument.
I think the issue with D2JSP, is that you have people who have amassed 20 years of wealth in forum gold. Which instantly makes D2R an uneven playing field. I wish there was a way to reset the FG for D2R release, or each ladder reset. Maybe even have a seperate currency for D2R... but I know that isn't ever going to happen.
I don't like the idea of people being able to just buy anything straight away. I get prices are higher at the start of a ladder, but it doesn't take long to drop off. Especially with all the bots.
@@GingerDRan lol no
@@GingerDRan not 100, but more like 40-50%.
It break the rule of ladder where everyone are suppose to start on the same ground. And imo, it is more rewarding to botters that have always tons of items to get rid of.
If you want to play the game solo, you can easely do so.
About the Ladder, Blizzard hasnt reseted the ladder in like 3 years? Who the fuck cares about the ladder. The point of the game is to find the prime built. Try to find a perfect RR with cast, str res, life and mana. Thats why people still play the game, finishing first is solething only 0.1% of the pop cares
@@jivan9649 Ladder resets every 6 months, oh well.
@@lucifer579x they dint do it for a while
@@jivan9649 uh, june 12th was last. And according to my math, thats well within 6 months, thanks.
@@lucifer579x dont know last year i think they dint reset it for a while
D2jsp would be great if not for 2 things, buying fg, and bringing wealth over seasons.
Although I don't see how buying things late ladder because of previous work you put in really affects anybody, I do agree with your first statement. if buying FG wasn't a thing on the site, I think it'd catch a lot less heat, tbh. Especially whereas a lot of people choose to trade for FG and not buy it.
@@GingerDRan its part of your game experience, not mine. I've been playing for 20 years I aint gonna grind again
well just as in a real economy money (fg) has to come at some point and it can't be something just poping like that when making an account
while you could imagine stuff (like a mod checking your account and then allowing you a fix amount to counter that) it would make the amount of money in circulation very irregular (not to say, bad stuff)
i'm not sure there is any actual way of having this money in the game without a way that at some point 'll bring issue, on this pod probably has the good way with the money coming from the game and being able to be divided and that's probably why bliz if they add any site of trade wont have such a system and therefore let all the space to jsp
and tbh just for the protection against scam i prefer jsp by far xD blizzard has never done anything about it and probably wont invest the mod team needed to do so in d2r
@@Coooley It's horrible that you can buy FG, it's horrible for humanity and the game.
Yep, have a buddy who will just pull out his credit card and buy the first of anything he sees. Jsp just facilitates a way for people to pay to win, which is fine if you want to go that route. I personally don’t enjoy that play style though and stay away from games that offer it. I wish they’d just wipe it every season lol
Buying items outside of the platform (i.e. for forum gold or USD) creates an incentive to run bots beyond doing well in the ladder which floods the in-game economy and removes any competitive integrity. If the only reward for botting was to be in-game wealthy or place higher on a single ladder season, there would be 100 times fewer bots, but d2jsp provides a platform for and profits off them.
Sure, you aren't violating Blizzard's EULA by trading in-game items for forum gold, but you are feeding the bots.
The Trade button creates the incentive. They knew that when they wrote up the ToS. People will always find a way. And where there's value, there's bots! Remember when eBay was known for selling D2 items? haha Now THAT was a direct violation lol
@@Coooley ... good old times where uniq gloves was easily sold for about 20€... XD
This conversation broke out in a channel a week ago and it ended with botters flat out taking credit for D2 success. " I bot so you can play" lol
@@JB6kow00- The only good thing about JSP, is that it brings Forum Gold, which is a currency that is more precise than HRs and whose value will fluctuate with supply and demand since it's not an ingame item. Which means you can actually trade low value items for Forum Gold, while you wouldn't get anything for them with only ingame trading.
But other than that, D2JSP is a plague. It encourages botting, cheating, scamming, and makes it so that legit players will never be able to compete. That's not to talk about all the corruption going on in D2JSP, where a lot of people get banned for no reason when they hold a lot of FG, and any appeal to get unbanned are ignored, or met with insults.
This also means D2R's economy is already dead even before release, since people with a lot of FG earned in OTHER GAMES will be able to fully gear their paladin as soon as the game is out and the required items are in circulation.
@@Coooley but you know, as well as i do, that there is a black fg market.
D2JSP logic:
-Focus playing on close battle net to be legit, not like open battle net where you can edit your character and use mods and hack. That would be not fair and wouldn't feel rewarding.
-Also promote playing as illegitimately as possible: Using exploits, dupe methods, bots, hacks, pay to win, making players having buying power from FG during resets... (also speaking from back in the days) But hey you're not forced to, but you'll still be surrounded by it.
Seriously what's the point. That's just an awesome way to push back someone who want to play legit and still be competitive as it just won't be possible unless he also choose to play unfair and cheat. Then they move to PlugY and private servers.
D2jsp is just unfair for players starting out new! A new season should mean everyone starts at 0 and its fair for everyone to climb the ladder, which is no longer true at all.
Some players start at 50k+ fg and just buy up all the gear they need to start some hhbots...
And THAT ruins the economy a lot!
Hope that shit doesn't happen in d2r at all...
Any thoughts on that?
This is the most obvious and most common criticism against d2jsp. I wonder why didn't he address this.
This actually was a addressed! If the "rich" people want to acquire all the godly items without doing anything, they gotta pay the "little guy". And then MORE people have a pile of FG. Benefiting "new" players shouldn't come at the expense of punishing old ones. The good thing about having a good trading forum is that the new player who "grinds" and finds items early can quickly become one of the "whales" and fund an entire character worth of gear if he's timely.
Additionally, everyone DOES start at zero on a new ladder. The ladder itself is only about leveling. New items aren't "created" just because someone has FG. They need to be found. If you're rich and lazy, you're gonna pay a hefty price to new, motivated players who find those items. I think to assume that ladder is somehow "unfair" because other people in the world are richer than you is just a terrible way to approach a new ladder. If it was all about being #1 on ladder every season, you'd have one happy person and everyone else would be pissed lol.
@@1920KilledAmerica not talking to a pro bot guys sry
@@Coooley the entire concept of buying items for money is wrong. Why are you defending it? Yes fg is real money. Doesnt matter if you sold a shako day 1 for it or bought it. The fg doesnt come magically it is bought with money.
"People confuse D2JSP for bots" ...yeah I wonder what the JSP stands for 🤔🤔🤔
exactly... for those who don´t know : JSP = Java Script Parser
and yet that's not what the site itself stands for today.
should we continue judging you forever for your own past mistakes?
should we all assume that YOU are incapable of changing, learning, or growing?
because that's what you're saying.
@@AlexB-cn2lo interesting how someone who isnt a member of the d2jsp community can say that less than 1% of the people who trade there dont bot. especially when talking to someone who is a member of the community, who doesnt bot, and who is saying that most users dont bot.
i wonder who is more credible.
and you really made me laugh when you called yourself a "real d2 player". i look forward to posting another comment here to remind you that yes, that is in fact my name you're seeing on top of the hardcore ladder.
@@tbxvividos I've been around JSP for a long time (i.imgur.com/KIPNHSn.png) and yes, there are plenty of legit traders who have never even had botting cross their mind. BUT there are still tons of botters selling botted gear to people who don't bot on jsp. Also if you think Njaguar isn't still scripting bots you're delusional.
@@AlexB-cn2lo So private servers are "legit"? Interesting. I don't remember that being native to the game.
Using FG obtained in past ladders for buying new stuff in a reset ladder = transferring items to the new ladder. It's clearly an advantage when you compare it to people who never use FG and actually play the game to obtain their loot and then trade it.
Nobody should get to keep their past progress over a ladder reset. Then what's the fucking point of ladders? Leveling? Well, the hoarders will get 99 faster, buying all the fresh items.
Everybody should be poor! Like me...
@@Coooley Dude...
@@Coooley Are you fkign serious mate? daaamn i lost all repsect for this channel right there.
@@FluxeyHnS Same. Seems he can't even comprehend the basic reason for a ladder reset (hint: fresh economy), or likely does but remains willfully ignorant. Doesn't take any big brain moves to see why xferring wealth to a brand new economy is an advantage over vanilla players.
This is so funny, I haven't heard of D2JSP yet until this video, but this is what I'm getting at: You use IRL money to gain forum "currency", then you use the forum currency to buy in game things. So since it's not a direct purchase of the item (Using IRL money only) it's therefore (legally), completely ok to do so.
There is also no way to prove that you didn't buy the "currency" and you can just lie and say you traded for it, they don't have your receipts, again (legally) completely un-bannable and ok.
Now lets take a (hypothetical) real world example of this situation: Prostitution should be totally legal if a pimp makes a website, and you donate your cash for "pimp points." Then you can use said pimp points to "trade" for sex right? Should be completely ok, it's not like you "bought" the sexual favor in exchange for money, there was a conversion step involved right?
A question just in case: I'm assuming you can use that forum gold for other games' items you mentioned, like WoW, correct? If so, it's (basically) an e-organized crime website lol.
It's like a can use my "pimp points" for drugs and guns too, not just prostitutes... yikes.
I'm low IQ, but again, this looks super shady to me, lmfao.
While I do enjoy your analogy, let's face it if a game is popular enough people selling in-game stuff for real money will pop up.. if that seems weird to you just remember we live in a world where "sleep streams" are a thing xD
Some people will try to sell you literally anything.
I guess the difference is the consequence of crimes.. one could be sex trafficking or simply supporting paid sex worker industry..
The other is violating blizzards terms of service for a video game.
Frankly, I’m less worried about the criminals breaking and changing the game for everyone else.. through legal loopholes.. more than I am sex trafficking.
But yeah I’d say botting creates abundance and JSP makes it pay to win as well.. both breaking a game that has ladder resets for those exact purposes..
Luckily the game is still playable! It’s just.. less than what it used to be right? Most solid ARPG I’ve ever seen tho. I love D2.
Seems like the only one defending using the forum is the ones with allot of forum gold.
Sounds like someone didnt watch the video
Idk man I'm pretty poor on there and I don't think it's that bad
0 fg, but 23k posts and 2016 join date - i dont understand the hate other than unfair advantage for ladder resets
BS, I think it was a great way to stimulate the West economy, and no, I don't have a lot of FG.
or in my opinion, misled by the wrong nature of it existing as a 3rd party gateway into dollar -> FG -> item in game, because in a sense, how do you assign value to FG? How does that stuff come into existance and how did the market shape up to make it so that X FG equals mid season average enigma? It is a currency independent from the game and dependent on it being gained by buying it and how much it has been fueled into the economy.
Consider it this way, somebody makes a new currency, but because its made up, it has no value. How do you exactly assign value to that? Its a fiat currency tbh. Its a pyramid scheme in a sense.
You forgot to mention that the same Paul was the creator of the D2BS, the back end system for botting on D2. The proof? It's in the source code when you reverse engineer the system
So effectively D2JSP= botting but not anymore
@@ranirafid1592 so you're saying you make a mistake in life once and you're doomed forever?
@@ad-zh5ot I would say yes if you continue to act the same as you did back then, it's clear Paul hasn't changed mentally.
@@CalculatorTI89 For sure this is exactly the same as botting, the only differnce is you have to pay real money here. Dont have to but most ppl will, This is going to ruin the game for alot of new players. Many comes from D3 cause ppl are so tired of botting and its exactly the same here, This is not good for D2R
@@toprap88 lolol this site has been up for 18 yrs didnt take down the og D2. Also ppl leaving D3 is more indicitive of D3 sucking when compared to D2 or even D1 for that matter
d2jsp was where you used to go to get map hacks and bots. its what made d2jsp famous to begin with. the forums and trading came later
The Double Upload. Considered to be the greatest scam ever in order to get double ad revenue.
Bin that ad $$$
I thought I was going crazy and that I didnt watch this last night but dreamt it lol
Lololol! It actually hurts that. Badly! Changes had to be made though :-/
I don't care about jsp, but if I see another P2PAH bot spam in D2R I'm gonna blow my brains out.
- The game just started, and people with lots of FG already got everything they need... Those who used it before and have accumulated FG have significant advantage.
- You can also exchange real money for FG.
- And FG transitions through ladders.
Yes but how you wanna trade on console ??? No chat or no lobby its a fkg joke
Ya maybe if you play on playstation or switch 😂
Every time I see a hammerdin with hoto shako and enigma there's a high chance he's a d2jsp user
@@vaiav19 there are other trading platforms that don't involve any external currency.
@@RaydenLGX i dont care i want to trade ingame just like ppls do on pc
I have always had the thought that jsp is a way to launder money. I have seen people lose well over 100K in bar and pub games like it was nothing.
Yeah there are some very well known players/TH-camrs dropping big fgs on single dice rolls.
It is and it is well known. There are people that literally sell tens of thousands of fg to other individuals to do donations to the website in their name. do enough of this and you become trusted or even a mediator, which opens a new pletora of ways to earn fg and launder harder.
My problem is it being a 3rd wheel in pile, and obviously, in a way, considering FG can be bought, it sort of, assigns a gray market value to items.
As much as people might have talked about d3's RMAH, it wasn't surprising given the fact that trading for straight up dollars happens in d2, directly or indirectly (jsp which I would consider the indirect one).
I'd consider that the problem stems from d2's economy lacking a sort of "gold of actual trading value" and you use pgems and HRs alot (which are very spatially limited). D2 on ladder is somewhat like a mmorpg in a way, and those tend to have either gold that is the currency used and sometimes auction houses, like runescape added one way later or wow which always had it and which both have gold as the #1 currency.
I can like that it might do good for the community, but I don't like the sort of shifty nature of it existing and profiting out of the trade of d2 items (as I said, in a grayish economy).
All this just seems to stem from an oversight in how the value of gold (which should be the centralized currency) works in the game, which I kinda personally consider worthless in the long run. Also, considering that you could use FG on multiple different games, it in a small way mixes somewhat unrelated games economies in between. It might not be deep but its still there. Games with trading will always have black or gray markets, but I just view that JSP tends to promote this alongside being a huge community hub which sort of advertises this indirectly.
Edit: man I spent like 25 minutes thinking this post, haha.
Don't D2jsp directly sell you FG. Wouldn't that just immediately count as RMT? The whole video should have ended there.
Where do we think FG came from? out of thin air? That being said, I used d2jsp back in the day, just like everyone else. Never bought any gold tho.
What people also don't realize is letting d2jsp run the trading market inherently immediately makes the moderators and the website owners the jeff bezos of d2. infinite money to spend and they can spawn in as much currency as they want. forum gold is absolutely worthless because they can spawn infinite amounts of it. that is a huge bubble that people can take advantage of and control the game.
@@burdclanproductions1014 Yeah except that's stupid because it ruins the value of FG, they don't want tons of FG out there. Paul isn't an idiot lol, he's made millions off JSP he's not going to throw that away for one D2 ladder lmfao.
@@burdclanproductions1014 lol, you think this is some kind of cryptocoin or? Its a game...?
@@heikkihustlaaja9403 Ironically, cryptos like bitcoin have REAL value for precisely this reason. it is not centralized, and nobody just creates an arbitrarily large amount of it whenever they want to.
Shortcut people. Fake reset people. Why would they even bother fake to play a game? Play non-ladder, at your own pace, or singleplayer, its more rewarding than bypass seasons, meh people
The transfer of wealth between seasons didnt even come up in his video. Its obious from his comments on this video that he doesnt even see the the fresh economy aspect as a part of the ladder reset. Hes so in denial its almost funny.
@Zer Schmetterling Yeah its stupid. Like Cooley could easily have had his pro pvp videos on non-ladder, but no. They have to participate in new ladder with their fg. Why? Getting ahead gives them a sense of superiority. Even with bots.
JSP + all the Bots destroy COMPLETLY the enconomy of D2 *WORD*
all the bots. right - jsp I read over it
I'd also like to add my 2 cents:
1. forum gold allows people to carry progression from old seasons (or even worse, from other games) into a new one, which is against the sprit of starting a brand new season.
2. It also undoubtedly promotes botting, which creates all kinds of problems such as inflating the economy with botted items/runes, and forcing legit players to play and trade in such economy.
3. not to mention forum gold can be bought with real money, so it is basically pay to have unfair advantages vs legit players.
Exactly this.
Also a person with 100k+ forum gold can get a really good lead by buying all the good items as soon as theyre posted. They don't even need to play the RNG game.
I wonder why blizzard do not taken d2jsp down long ago
currently people are demanding a High rune for something like a middle of the road torch, so they can simply flip that in D2JSP. people who just trade in the game are losing out by a lot, since a typical torch is going for something like 400-600 gold while a rune like Lo is worth 2500 forum gold, so you can easily 4-6x your money, people who just trade in game are losing out and having to pay a lot for things simple because of the D2jsp price. This isn't even in ladder since thats not out yet.
The only thing that makes D2jsp bad is the fact you can buy forum gold with real life currency. Take that out and it's actually an amazing tool, because D2 doesn't actually have currency. Yes, it had SOJs and 3/20/20 SCs for a long time, but thats not feasible. One thing I would have loved to see blizzard do with resurrected was make gold in game hard to get so we'd actually have a currency, but alas, is what it is.
you forgot to talk about ladder reset witch is not a real reset when people have over 1 million forum gold to insta gear thir bots and get more forum gold doing that season than they spend on insta gearing the bots lmao.
And Cooley stop liking all the JSP loving comments i see witch side ur on lmaooo xD
i like you but dont give props to something that breaks my lover "diablo 2" then i cant like you :(
Even if they took out the currency which is way over priced and berly anyone buys it from the site. People farm their currency just like bots farm gold. And then sell their currencies behind Paul's back. And there are sites that just bot items and gold and sell it too.
It has runes. Thats a currency
So how does one issue new forum gold? If you can't buy the fg, then where does it come from to trade with in the first place?
@@Gthisen4400 exactly what I think man! ot was a bit too much of a commercial for jsp ignoring the one big shitty thing about it which is what you just described
the only part that can be seen as bad is that people use fg at the beginning of ladder to advance faster, which you could argue is very unfair. since he got the fg last season.
Either fg u can actually buy item with real money so
@@Leonykf yea but it's huge money. you're paying like $120 for a single BER rune. I'm sure people do it but i can't see many people actually doing it.
@@Jord_45 lots of ppl do it actually , i know chinese trading platforms
This is my biggest gripe with jsp as well
But then they are already in the hole and better hope they get drops........ You can play for years and never find a jah ber etc. The only way is getting a hammerdin going and doing rushes. The comp gets pretty hardcore on that as well.
I used d2jsp like 10 years ago. This time around I realized D2jsp makes the game pay to win... Those with significant fg can use it to multiply it at the start of each ladder. If you don't trade on d2jsp you are at a severe disadvantage in ladder.
Exactly! So saying that JSP doesnt ruin the economy is just a big load of BS. People who have been botting for the last 10+ years are SO far ahead of everyone eles when ladders hits D2R.
Well now i understand why ppl were so fast early, This def. rubs me the wrong way. This is exactly like botting in D3, This will ruin the game for me
same for D2R. I saw guy with enigma during 2nd week of D2R. How is that possible? It is not. He simply bought JAH/BER with his FUGIs. ban all fu ckin fugi-dog-kids, so cringe to watch
@@wojtekmarciniak1173 that might have been me lol, i made enigma 6 days after release, but i started using jsp only 10 days after making enigma. It definitely wasn't the first enigma, although it was maybe one of the first. And even found some cool stuff made enigma early, i realized i was poor compared to jsp guys with 100k fg
@@Svupper it doesn't have to ruin the game , I just play the old school way and don't care about others
It quite simply changes the game from play to win to pay to win. Theres no debating that, when you can buy fg and use it to gear yourself at the start of a ladder how can you say it doesnt ruin the game for the vast majority who have no idea what jsp is or want nothing to do with it
You realise without allthe lazy ppl who put cash in and drive prices up make your farming worthwhile? Plz continue to be ignorant. You are a fool sir
Nobody buys fg and then trades fg for items when you can buy items directly for fractions of the cost. Fg is so insanely expensive.
@@xxMurmaiderxx uhhh i have heard many many people over the years do exactly that...when people are presented a shortcut, most take it. Proof: over 20 years of it happening lol
It is more like that you can stack up FG from the previeous ladder and use it to snowball into the new one.
But actually I do not care. As this D2R-Ladder shows, you don't even have to think you can compete without a hundred and more people supporting you.
The issue with d2jsp as a long time user is this : When a ladder resets all parties are equal and have no gear. With jsp players can buy their way into progress aka pay to win. This would be fine but coupled with the issue of no proper anti botting control the entire economy is dead within often two weeks outside of rare and sought after jewels/charms. The average player cannot compete with someone running 10+ bots and flooding the market, when multiple users are doing it.
I think JSP would be ok if there were no bots in a tightly controlled environment. The upsides to jsp was the ease of trading and not having to always trade : item --> hr --> item.
Tbh, without it, I dont think I'd be able to continue playing on console. Without anyway of communicating/ making trade games.. you're basically just playing single player.
Just bought d2 res today and that's exactly what I realized within the first hour of playing. If anyone has tips on how to have a better time on console let me know.
@@DLimbeck92 get used to playing alone. Otherwise if you do ever get people in game you can add their psn and potentially talk via headset.
YUP! game is unplayable without D2jsp
@@DLimbeck92 start playing with friends
Ya this is the unfortunate state atm. I'm holding out hope that this issue will be addressed within a couple months. I don't mind playing solo, but making groups and making friends through this game has so much potential.
Hi Coooley, I don't agree with you saying that 6 months into ladder you will get the same rune for shako as in day 1. It's obviously not true - in later stage of ladder you will get random shako for pul, high def for um, because there are plenty of them.
I also don't agree that jsp doesn't affect in-game economy. It obviously does, as jsp users are going to sell high-end items just for fg, when hrs aren't enough. As a consequence, people who don't use jsp can't buy those GG items while they could have if all players were trading in game and not for forum gold.
Finally, what I don't like about d2jsp is that when someone has tons of fg, they can get all the high-end gear very early after ladder reset, which gives them advantage over "legit" players. If nobody used jsp, there would be equal rules for all.
Never once traded on it. But it is a good source for guides for things like breakpoints and lvl85 areas. The game had a good enough trading system as it was. Didnt take long for someone to join your trade game.
And I think its a bit of a problem that the site benefits from the trading because it sort of "tempts" people into buying that FG, kind of like having a spam bot advertise you because you are using the site.
"the game had a good enough trading system as it was"
I'm gonna go and assume you are not talking about D2 here lol
@@NofirstnameNolastname read the rest of their post, they are lol
@@Bellabong sarcasm...
@@NofirstnameNolastname whats wrong with hrs as currency? Works for the hundreds of thousands of players for 20 years. The few thousand jspers are the minority. And while im speaking on it, why do some of these jsp guys sit in public trade games spamming "x" item for fg... for hours. Those are the type of guys i cant stand. Trade that shit on your site or gtfo out of public trade games if your gonna spam spam spam
The main issue I have with D2JSP has far as I know is FG aren't seasonned : so that make ladder season not really season if you use them since you could start your season with a lot of currency to buy everything, ruining the "economy reset", if FG were accounting for seasons, then I'll have no problem at all, aside from FG being buyable with dollars :/
It's funny how this is the only actual criticism of JSP by informed people and this is the only one he didn't cover. He only covered the myths that people who barely play D2 think.
@@noraanti3397 I came here to say this.. was so disappointed he didn't cover it... maybe he will at some point
Exactly
I think the real problem with d2jsp is not ruining the economy or the TOS.
The big issue is that it makes the game P2W.
I can spend thousands of hours playing the game and never drop a SOJ (true story, got my first drop at 2015 after 10 years of playing it) or I can just spend a couple of bucks and have my full build ready to go.
But you can also NOT buy forum gold and just earn FG trading and doing services for people and work your way up to that gear.
@@CommanderReplay or you could just play the game and not play some weird trading minigame on a website founded off of duping and botting.
@@LiliumCruorem Did that for 20 years. I enjoy the game better when I get actually get cool gear. Also its not a trading mini game. I rush people, I kill ancients, and I kill dclones. I am playing the game just the same as you, just that I gain wealth for everything I do, where you might not find anything for 50 meph runs.
@@CommanderReplay that's exactly the point. Rich people are paying you to work. Instead of buying items they are buying your time.
@@Jchueire You wanna talk about time? I rushed people for a week last season and built myself a Dream Paladin. How many weeks or months do you think that would take to build a dream paladin not using d2jsp? I played d2 normally for 20 years. I promise your time is better off spent rushing people on d2jsp and then trading the for the stuff you want. You can still target farm the things that you want, which I do, but you dont have to sit and pray for a high rune to drop.
Overall this isn't a very accurate video. @Coooley is brushing over several points too quickly:
* Trading for FG is something that will get you banned in several games -- including Blizzard games -- where the TOS are worded similarly.
* The "Scammer Accusations" team is vindictive on the scammer, but they actually do nothing to compensate/help the victim or to get the stolen items returned. These days scams involve quite some social engineering and d2jsp staff are doing a very lackluster job at addressing that.
* FG does influence the economy quite severely, as it helps rich players to buy items early on in the ladder. If all trading had to take place inside Diablo II, bots early on in the ladder would be far less powerful, and there would not be such a huge influx of high-end items.
* The main criticism against njaguar (Pauly T) is the fact that he earns immense amounts of money selling what's essentially a non-product. This is doubly frustrating if you consider d2jsp's terrible customer service, understaffed moderation team, and njaguar's own lack of loyalty towards his staff and members. The website has the funds to do a great job, but instead it does the bare minimum because it knows it has an unshakeable monopoly.
Ladder resetting should mean something. It's supposed to be an opportunity to get reset the wealthy and get ahead. People don't have to play it, you can keep your wealth. It's not good for new players and it's not good for the game.
Yeah this is gonna ruin the game for me, I quit after 8yrs of D3 cause of botting. This is exactly the same
I asked around, you are not missed.
My problem with d2jsp is the questionable nature of the owner. I've heard many unsavory things and found a group that plays without jsp
I think a forum looking for trades and such isn't bad. It's the fact that you use forum currency.
so? whats bad about that? I dont get all these newcomers coming to the game complaining about stuff that has been established 15+ years ago.
still best way to trade its easier to sell an item for some currency rather than finding someone that needs you're item and you need their item
I agree it removes the grind...not the difficulty. I've used JSP in the past and let me say this. Once you use it, and have a fully decked out character, the fun is gone unless you are a die hard grinder. So use it at your own risk. If you find it fun to grind endlessly for FG then there you go. Get Paul rich and waste your time.
How farming items for forum gold making Paul rich? When you sell an item to someone for forum gold you don't give Paul any money at all. Berly anyone buys the forum gold from him. And people use bots to make forum gold and then sell it on their own for cheaper. I've actually made thousands along thousands off d2jsp. So it's the other way around bro. If ya wanna far items for forum gold all day your putting money in your own pocket not Paul's and not wasting your time at all.
Even then, JSP is part of the experience for me. Every time I come back, I write down my current FG and consider that zero until I get through hell on 2 or so characters. JSP just makes trading much easier this way. I will agree that people who buy FG do ruin their experience.
@@mrmrsplinkegaming2426 you made real money on d2jsp? How?
I agree with you. I recently used some old forum gold for d2r and it ruined it for me.
I since then started playing single player mode and am having so much fun lol.
Lol anyone (including the guy running this channel) that tries to make the argument that there is no advantage to bringing 50k fg into a fresh ladder from previous play is being extremely dishonest. It's definitely cheating in terms of climbing a ladder. There isn't a sound argument to say otherwise.
Jsp ruins the game for me. New ladder is coming and I don't even want to play it because of this exact reason. I wish blizzard would add a ssf ladder because climbing the ladder with the 90% that use jsp and have wealth the minute they create that first character is such a drag to me. D2 is one of my favorite all time games but it's always been the same issue, jsp and other forms of cheating fuck everything up.
I've never used jsp because of this reason, but it still ruins my experience when others do.
Tell me you are a jsp special interest without telling me you're a jsp special interest
I like how he didnt bring up that the site is Pay to win.......
It can be pay to win. I think what you're getting at though, is i could have found a couple shakos and a Tals armor at the release of D2R. Sell it for FG, and jump into ladder and trade with a lucky player for a day 1 ladder shako. It's not p2w, but it is the Wallstreet of the game. 3k FG is 100irl. 3k FG won't get you THAT far on d2jsp.
It is pay to win , back in the days you struggled to find your items and that made it special to get them
It ruins the nostalgic feel of bartering and turns trading into a convenient easy way to use useless items, gain knowledge of prices, and as you said, pay to buy those items you can't get to drop for you. Buying anything godly on jsp is seriously expensive and seeing as how there are tons of other websites that are solely for the purpose of "pay to win," I don't think it does much harm to the economy. The thing I don't like about it is how you are aware that if you find something awesome early in ladder, it is financially smarter to sell it for fg and buy a cheaper one later when prices drop. That's kind of the case whether your selling it for fg or runes (which is really a hard concept for new players to get a grasp on.)
Meh. I just use it to trade my finds into useful items
I found ber sold it on there for 2300 fg bought unid anni 1800 . sold unid anni on traderie for ber and just the cycle got rich now lol
Its bad for the game because it streamlined paying real money for items, I don't see how that is ever OK but you seem pretty invested in jsp so I get it.
Fg also overlaps in games, I once sold a rare name I had from the path of exile closed beta for 1k fg, that could be used to buy an item early ladder in d2 which makes no sense.
I have played private ladders without bots And jsp and it felt better, I hope d2r fixes this issue because else it's just the same old.
If Blizzard changed their ToS tomorrow and said, "no JSP for D2R", I wouldn't bat a f'n eye lol. I have literally NO ulterior motives here. People don't generally spend real money for FG. Sorry if that wasn't clear.
@@НиколаДимитров-щ9у Bots were going to explode one way or another. Look at every single MMO game. WoW has millions of bots, not because of JSP. This is a dumbass argument. And no, a lot of people don't buy FG, especially for a game like Diablo.
@@kevinreilly6623 The FG still partially comes from real life currency.
And just because bots will be there does not mean that because JSP provides an environment from which bots benefit from should be ignored.
@@nurman666 In that case any trading forum should be flagged as it'll benefit bots because well, bots need to trade in order to be profitable. JSP currently doesn't encourage botting, and there is really nothing JSP can do about botting. That blame should be geared 100% towards blizzard and the fact that it's put on JSP is just dumb.
Also FG is only from real life currency if you want it to be. I made well over a few thousand$$ worth of FG all by not dropping a dime on anything other than a videogame itself. So it's easily possible for anyone that really understands trading and how to play the game.
The one thing I used to really love about JSP is it connects all games currency into one. Back when I played RS, once I quit RS I was able to convert all of that gold into counter strike gear. Once I was done with Counterstrike I was able to convert that back to D2, etc etc. That's what the main goal of the site is nowadays.
@@kevinreilly6623 saying FG is only from real life currency is kind of like farming your own food vs buying it in a store. Its never mandatory!
D2jsp was created before the crypto currency surge. In light of crypto being a real currency, you could make an argument that fg skirts that line pretty closely.
except "history" isn't the same as a blockchain and its not a p2p currency, these are open source trades with no privacy and no real value except for what players give them as they only serve one purpose. Crypto fulfills multiple outlets, is secured constantly and is 100% p2p
(peer to peer)
tell me you have no clue what makes crypto crypto without saying you dont know what makes crypto crypto
@@TPGodlike theline I was referring to being skirted was being considered currency, not being crypto. Real money changes hands, and you get a digital item whos only purpose is to purchas and sell digital property with other people. Very similar to real world currency. Only key difference is that it cannot be exchanged 2 way with other currency.
@@aquaticcactus9897
"For Now". Just wait until Democrats either harness it for their sinister bidding, or ban it for being a "high capacity assault currency".
@@lordkrythic6246 its almost like the U.S constitution allows the people to overthrow governments when abusing their power :) I'm not even American and I know that
Found this video via Google looking to learn about the real story with jsp. Unfortunately this is clearly a very biased piece that approaches the easiest to deflect criticisms without touching on any aspect of real controversy: RMT, rollover between seasons AND games, and essentially rewarding one man for building an empire off of botting.
Ofc, when they deflect, it's because they are in on it. But... even though it's even more futile, one should direct their anger at the ones who create the demand for it. Which would be us, the players. This wouldn't be a thing if there weren't so many of us who rather open their wallet to get their way.
This assumes that all or at least most D2 players even use D2JSP. I know a good portion don't and there lies the imbalance. There is no way you can justify this to be %100 balanced across the board, period. Players that use it compared to players that don't obviously have more of an edge of playing the game and acquiring items.
@@bmck5002 no I’m not I’m against D2JSP. I literally just said it makes D2 imbalanced.
I just watched this video yesterday, but it was released 5 minutes ago?
I am staying away from jsp. Working in finance, the idea of a third party, privately owned trade forum that emits its own money-based currency raises SO MANY red flags... :)
The wild west of gaming. A lot of people who complain were never cut out to play at this level anyway. Botting/scamming/trading never ruined the game for someone who wants to play it as it was meant to be played.
The feeling of finding a truly rare item and using it, is worth far more than its D2jsp value, this is why we play Diablo.
That’s not true, if you want to compete you have no chance against people who can buy outside the game.
@@jewellui Welcome to real life my sweet summer child.
now that ladder only items are going to non-ladder, I would imagine a lot of players will not play ladder anymore and this will affect d2jsp somewhat. I know I don't plan on playing ladder - I never gave 2 shits about the leveling race. I just played solo 98% of the time anyway.
Nah, theyll still play ladder. PoE has the same setup.
My take is that forum gold de-values player accomplishments. When I see someone with a really rare item I love knowing that person put in work to either farm efficiently and find it or build up enough wealth through in game trading to get there. Either way in this scenario time playing game = progress.
In the scenario with forum gold a player could swipe their credit card and obtain said item, I personally feel that takes away from the accomplishments of other players since money in your bank = progress.
I appreciate your respectful response! Two things:
1.) a vast majority of people on JSP do NOT pay for FG. They trade their items. So it's similar to the in-game grind with just a better format.
2.) While I also think it's good to grind for items, most of the people that use JSP are duelers and are not concerned about MF'ing all of the items required to duel at the highest level of play. All the money in the world can't make you a better dueler. That comes down to skill.
@@Coooley thanks man! Love your pvp streams
@@Coooley "a vast majority of people on JSP do NOT pay for FG" source: tRuSt mE bRo 🤡 The site was literally set up by people who provided scripts for Diablo automation. Using JSP is like trading with convicted [rule breakers] and telling others that it's OK because they [broke rules] 10 years ago, but they definitely don't break any rules today for sure. It's embarrassing that someone with 60k subscribers promotes such a website. On top of that, as many people have said, you can literally carry your gold from season to season. Only an absolute moron would think that is okay. But what can I expect from someone who plays D2 PVP. 🤡
Personally I do believe it removes the hard part of the game by actually grinding for the items that you need to become better.
But please don't forget nowadays I have no that much time than I had at age of 16. :D So maybe it's "takeaway of the hard part", but I don't mind if a nice trading community is exist.
People traded ingame even before d2jsp so saying d2jsp removes the hard part is kinda weird.
I wouldn't play D2 if there wasn't a d2jsp like service for it. D2 trading is hot ass, was barely workable even 20 years ago.
I have never been scammed from d2jsp, aside from my tendency to overpay because I am impatient...
FG allows for a possibility to buy in-game items for real world money. This alone takes away the concept of struggle of grinding for items if you have money which consequently ruins the game.
No you grind for the gear sell that gear for FG anyone can do it from any sides.
@@WayneTwitch yes, but you can as well buy FG for real money which means if you have money you do not need to grind like the one who does not have the money.
JSP sucks, had one of the first bots distributed all over the site. trades current season items for " forum gold" to later buy the next seasons item. Ugh the whole point of seasons is to start fresh, not accumulate wealth to buy shit each season. There will be a new trading website for D2:R and ill never use that trash d2jsp
I used JSP to sell several items on D3 for $250 a piece back when the RMAH was active.. haven't touched it since though
There's a trade forum on Bnet's forums too, it's been dead since it was created.
Also, Jsp is the most important Diablo 2 community. It’s like the bible of Diablo 2. You find every possible builds, guides, pvp tournaments etc. Basicly everything about d2. And the trading is very effective and simple.
as someone who has been trading on d2jsp for over 10 years now I have never been scammed. it has very strict rules and good mediators.
@@drsoommmer 0. you just sell your items on there and others buy them, you don't need to have any forumgold to be able to make forumgold.
Ask you a question, is there a way to convert fg into USD?
@@他每天在天台看云海 there probably is as with anything but it’s more regulated than most games so you won’t see much rmt on d2jsp
lol @ giving njaguar US dollars for imaginary forum points
Dig into the guy's history a bit, you'll understand. Everyone using it is complicit.
Falls into the same category as buying gold. The Blizzard Game master SoO may have changed since 2019 but it something like: Report filed, Game master tracks reported accounts game logs, investigates accounts with shared trade logs. Issues Suspensions/Bans. Blizzard has also had Game master teams do 'sting' operations for months collecting account information before issuing mass Bans. See the bot Ban waves of 2019 and 2020 for example.
And you can get every lawyer in the country to be on your side, but at the end of the day you clicked the EULA and Blizzard calls the shots.
@@Gryffyth_Aurum Great story. I dont believe any of it, but its good that you're working on your creative writing skills anyway.
This video comes across like some dude with a lot of FG completely ignoring the main problem with D2JSP and trying to convince himself and others that it's "fine"
I think the most interesting part of JSP now that i made an account and looked into it is that i can transfer progress from one game to another. They support trading on 3 different games i play, i could easily sell stuff on one game and buy on another with forum gold. Its like crypto for gaming, decentralized currency that can be converted into any other type of game currency i desire. I can see how this can be problematic though. I think the worst is seeing players with hundreds of thousands of forum gold able to buy all the top gear in the first week of D2R being released. It essentially allows people to start D2R without any work, right where they left off.
Anyone saying that this doesn't affect the economy in D2R is a shill. There's absolutely no reason people that have been collecting forum gold for roughly twenty years, across multiple games should be able to dictate the price of items in a brand new game. Completely kills the economy. People reference forum gold constantly across D2R subreddit's for the prices of items. I'm already getting bored with D2R because of this reason.
My only gripe with D2JSP is that it ruined some of the joy of D2R's launch.
Having everybody on more or less equal power levels, pushing together to finish hell as a team, was pure joy in public games. But within a few days, there were already people who whaled their FG on D2JSP for whatever good loot was available, and were able to carry entire full games practically solo.
It isn't a big deal, and we all knew it would happen, but it's a thing.
Never used or heard of jsp but it sounds like a p2w aspect which is ok I guess. I'm just sticking to self made/found and local trading like I did back in the day. The whole point of the game in my opinion is the grind for the item. Without the grind there is no point for me to keep coming back.
100%. Hadn't played D2 in years. Decided to play a bit during the pandemic for funsies. Since I still had a key, I figured what the heck, I'll buy some fg and buy some gg stuff to gear up my characters to avoid the grind. Completely sucked all the fun out of the game, and I was bored in a month.
The chase for those pieces of end game gear is what makes D2 so addictive and fun . In my opinion, using real money and fg to gear up characters just ruins the experience. The grind is the game. Enjoy it.
@@hardcaliber19 happy to ear people that think like me. Many people don't understand that the real joy is the grind and the aspiration to get something... not to have it. A lot of people are clueless about simple concept like this and wonder why they lose interest after buying all the gear.
You cant really ptw in d2 its pretty much a singleplayer game.
@@warrivthetraveller5415 Here's the real question though:
If you know what makes you happy, then why do you care what other people are doing within the Terms of Service?
I've never used JSP, dont intend to. But they dont come into my games and hold them hostage until I buy something. They dont have a barrier preventing me from using the site if I wished to. I also feel no need to spit from great heights at people who enjoy playing a trading and economy simulation style of game, just because it isnt what I value, and imply they dont understand how to enjoy things because they arent enjoying them my way.
So why do you?
Paul Talborg (njaguar) is literally printing money by selling Forum Gold and for that reason alone d2jsp is a bad actor. The currency there is NOT community driven.
I'm a small player, a few hundred forum golds. Been trading on D2jsp for the last 2 years and for new ladder releases. I wish i had used it before. Never been scammed on d2jsp, much safer IMO. I got scammed so much in diablo trading games.
"I got scammed so much in diablo trading games." lol ... how? your own fault if you don't look closely.
Ahhh yes, the reason I moved to modded servers
Same. This is why I didn't buyed D2R... there's no mod like PD2 and PoD wich ban people who use RMT or D2jsp. People defending D2jsp are people who already have gold on it and have a bias toward the whole argument. What about Im 100% sure coooley has buyed fg but won't admit it.
@@warrivthetraveller5415 pd2 and pod are hardly d2 with all the mods they have its like you guyss want shit for free LMAO why not just play single player?
The reason why JSP is bad is because most of the wealth people have there is due to bot found loot. This is a problem.
alot of the wealth yes, but the wealthiest won it all using the poker game on jsp
Sorry but this video doesnt change my opinion, just because in real world legal terms they arent breaking any rules I still think D2jsp is what is wrong with D2. They completely ruin the challenge of climbing the ladder not to mention the economy of the ladder from the get go and is 100% used by botters
Lest say D2jsp close down, then what? What chances? the same P2W factor is still present just not on D2jsp but on all the thousands of China farming sites. When a game have a trade economy the game will have a possible way to use P2W and it will never go away. Just don’t use it and stop the crying.
jsp dont make it easier for ppl to climb.....i was once No 2 on ladder as a full legit player 8 years back(lvl 98 b4 i took a break from playing))......i had however a very active friend tagging with me in my every runs which did provide conviction aura(boosting my entire party dmg insanely).....maybe the name "Deception" may be familiar if you played back then....i was hosting these "Death Chaos-XXX" runs....around lvl 87 i took a minor break from lvling runs to farm for a Torch as exp gain gets much slower around there and death penality is extreme if die...so stats bonus and increased kill speed was a neat gain...............just play a lot....get your 4 sp..60 life..15 stats and resists bonus from the quests....get yourself a lvling partner thats active to play with you......1 get to be the hammerdin with conc aura and 1 get to be the hammerdin with conviction aura(whichever of the 2 that is less casual should be the conc pally) once infinity is created for the most active player......help your buddy farm essences so he can reset points back into his own Conc aura and help him get his own infinity for merc(dont be the jerk not filling his part of the share).....extra speed bonus if you get a sorc "friend" for maggot lair teleporting(the sorc player should not be your end goal teamate ;) just early game if you dont wanna feel bound like ya own him XD) having a pact with 1 player is enough.....dont need to make a pact with 2 ppl......Insight case.....there should be ton of ppl running around with a merc that has it.....oh and know whats the + of a friend running a high lvl conv ? uber Meph aura denied if conv = lvl 25 or above :) so chilling uber run as a team
Botting is different than D2jsp. Yes a lot of d2jspers use bot but they aren't mutually exclusive.
@@travisbathory468 assuming your id is who i think.......here......take this cat name kansou :)
I have been playing d2 & LOD since the day it released. Up until about 2 days ago, I never once touched D2jsp. Because of this video I have gotten on the site and completed a handful of trades. And for the first time in my entire career on d2, I have a fully built hammerdin online, for the first time since release. And it feels amazing to finally be able to trade all those items and "probably useful to someone else" items that have clogged my account with 15 mules and completely full of useless junk stash tabs. Thanks man. Lol I never would've done it if not for this video. Opens up a whole new reason and enjoyment of the game I've no-lifed for over 20 years xD
I've been on d2jsp since 2004. Have never had a bad transaction. Tons of friendly and helpful people.
I avoided D2JSP for more than a decade, and used to criticize people who used it. I started using it last ladder season cause the trade rooms were trash and it turns out it provided exactly the things I wanted: the ability to trade mid level items for currency and work way my up to the high runes I need, and also a way to provide services without getting scammed. Whenever you rush someone for a forge you never know if they will just leave before doing the forge. Ive never once been scammed on a rush on d2jsp and its also how I make most of my wealth. I think its also worth mentioning, that just because you CAN buy forum gold, doesnt mean you have to. Trade stuff and do services and earn the FG yourself and its basically just a more stream lined version of what you already do in d2 anyway. Id love to see a pro d2jsp video in the future, although im sure a lot of people would rage in the comments about a video like that.
you can do that on traderie where there is no currency from last season to get you a head start on this season.
Sorry Bro, stop defending a system of Hackers and botters! As someone mentioned it before, the point of having a ladder is to start from scratch and not with thousands of fg to buy shit. Fg should be deleted after every ladder! Ffs
The thing that held back D2JSP for me how is dogshit the 'community' is. They treat anyone with less experienced game knowledge without absolute disgust and most threads end up in some petty argument, name calling blah blah blah. It's so UNINVITING for new players, how could they possibly grow?
I've been using d2jsp since 2009 and have forum gold but I wish it never existed. Loved random trades in game.
Dont use it then, Its not good when you ruins the game for other players
I don't mind JSP overall, but I don't really like the fact people will be able to transfer wealth from OG diablo to remaster.
As one who was playing this game and suffering the downside of not being a botter when D2JSP started handing out all those botting programs, I can absolutely confirm they almost singlehandedly destroyed the games economy.
Yeah, it was awful. People used to come into my games and talk to me and give me end game gear for nothing. They totally ruined the economy by letting people actually have the items they wanted to play with.
Thankfully we're protected from those bad, bad men now and have to go back to the honorable way of getting the items we want, by taking advantage of people from countries with currencies in freefall and get them to to farm them for us.
The sky is still where it's always been, chicken little.
Very good video outlines that blizzard can't do a whole lot but it still bothers me a lot that my buddy spends 300 bucks and he gets himself an enigma and anything else he needs for his teleporting Paladin and now he makes all my hard work look irrelevant because I don't want to spend the money and then it takes a lot of the hard work that I put into finding my items look like a big waste of time. And subsequently since he bought all that gear he doesn't feel like the game is challenging and he doesn't play as much so the player retention is not quite there a body would love that gear but a person who wants to be a wallet Warrior they they spend their money and then they're gone worse we want players not people who buy the way through the game
Awesome video on d2jsp - very good points for both sides! You touched on all of the major points when it comes to Diablo II, however there's one section that really stands out against the favor of d2jsp- the gambling section. Sure there are table games like poker or blackjack, but there's also games that use random number generators, dice games and SPORTS BETTING. This is where the majority of the super rich get their income - why make 10 Forum Gold (FG) on a few in-game trades when you can bet 10k FG in one shot? Because of the volume of FG and the willingness to trade it for items in Diablo II, there is effectively limited stimulation of the in-game economy. Basically, FG functions as a "premium" in-game currency that can only redeemed on d2jsp.
Now I understand this game came out wayyy before In App Purchases (IAP) were a thing, which is one of the big reasons why d2jsp got big. But if Blizzard decided to add IAP and premium, tradable currency....would d2jsp and Forum Gold still be such a big thing in the near future?
Great content btw, subbed
you make it sound like d2jsp has a betting UI with sports and poker and shit. Lol. No. All the things you talk about are bets BETWEEN USERS simply done in a forum where people can put their FG where their mouth is. People play all sorts of things for Fg, from chess to mobile games.
I dislike the trading side of jsp, but the service side is clutch. I can host leech games where people join to get xp from me farming chaos, and I get all the drops of a Players 8 game.
bro...... forum gold does not reset like the ladder.... when the new ladder happens you can use golf you got from last ladder to buy the best stuff... which make laddering pay to win which is unfiar
I will never play ladder because of JSP. But the people who should really be worried about that is Blizz. I wonder if njaguar gives them kickbacks?
@@ineedcoffee2575 lol i know it wont ever go away lmao and i am not butt hurt over it... it is what it is... that doesn't change the fact that it would be better with out it.... jsp is probably convenient as fuck for a lot of people ( people making videos ) and that is totally fair.... but it also takes away the fun of playing the game when you think about it .... but whatever it is mostly opt in.... it effects the fairness of ladder rests.... but very few people care about that....
Some pretty poor arguments here. I can respect that people want Diablo 2 trading to be contained within the game but thats a thing that's hard to realize. The notion that someone with a significant amount of FG doesn't have a huge advantage by being able to trade FG for good items early in a Ladder Reset is disingenuous. I have traded across multiple games using JSP. I have turned work in Diablo 2 into an advantage in other games, such as Diablo 3 and Blade and Soul. I would rather have JSP exist without FG. A widely used trading forum is enough for me, especially with D2 Ressurected coming up, I'd rather the playing field be even for everyone.
The site everyone secretly uses but also secretly wish it never existed for anyone.
nah bro not everyone uses that shit site, JSP means 10 hours JSP a day 1-2 hour gaming no JSP means 10-12 hours gaming a day its fucking trash really
Just annoys me how players with fg have the advantage at the start. That and most players who want to trade always ask for fg instead of items making it more difficult to trade the normal way. Mainly referring to consoles btw. Can't create\join games like on pc so consoles players are almost forced to use jsp.
D2jsp supports some bottling like auto shops. Where you send FG with the comment buy/itemID#/realm/game/game password. And within 10-20 seconds a bot arrives to drop off that item. Boting ruins d2jsp.
I recently started playing Diablo 2 resurrected. For me. Diablo II is a single player game. Buying items for real life currency is essentially cheating your self. Going about to get items from others which might as well have duped items or used botting programs to get such said items is also, again, cheating your self. The game should be about prestige. Hard work should be reckognized as such and should not be inflated away by exploits of third and some times second parties.
So for me. I don't trade. Everything I have on my characters I farmed my self. If you traded items I see it on par with buying items for real life currency. You are essentially benefiting from other's hard or not so hard work. In the end the only person you cheat is your self.
If you feel the need to use real life currency to buy an in- game item in a single player game then ask your self this question: Why am I playing this game ?
Is buying items for real life currency on par with using cheat codes? If you could hand your self an item by typing in a command in the command console, would you do it? Does the game lose or gain appeal to you ?
In fairness not everyone buys their currency. I self found 3 Lo's. Two got rolled into griefs and the third I sold on jsp. I then took that fg and reinvested into the character. So you can make a barb let's say. You find yourself a night wings or deaths fathom. Instead of sitting on it or trying to make another character with 1 GG piece of gear. Jsp allows you to convert it into a third resource (fg) which you can then use to improve your character, in this case the barb. Granted you can do this in game now with high runes, but are you gonna give that ber/jah/sur or whatever, that you just traded that fathom for to someone for a grief pb? No you'd be overpaying. Fg allows you that wiggle room.
There argument is if you can buy og gear off the bat you can get og gear faster selling it making your own market.
"Blizzard can't ban your account."
I chuckled at the end.
They can ultimately do whatever they want. They could change the TOS on a whim.
Well they haven't for over 20 years so I doubt they'll just change it "on a whim"
@@kevinreilly6623 I held off on replying to this for awhile, but tonight I just got the itch. They have. They have changed the TOS multiple times. Maybe not specifically in regard to D2JSP, and honestly I don't think they should, nor would I care if they did.
I don't use JSP. Never have.
But unlike all the JSP shamers out these days crying about "It ruins the ladder" I don't think it does. I don't think it impacts other players at all, so again... I don't care about JSP's ongoing existence.
That being said. I still chuckle at the blanket statement that "Blizzard can't ban your account."
Blizzard banned people for using loader for the no cd patch after dropping the update that enabled native no cd support.
I was caught in that crossfire. I still had loader installed after an update, but didn't use any of the other features, so I was blissfully ignorant of the coming storm.
They've changed the TOS on their other games throughout the years as well. I just find that statement silly, hence the chuckle.
He forgot one thing. You can purchase fg with money, giving in game items monetary value. It gives you an advantage
9:37
I always knew it wasn't against the ToS. I also always used D2JSP back in the day and I am not ashamed about it at all. However, I am (much) older now and I know a thing or two about how to manage in-game economies. Such as the ones in MMOs. I now hold the belief that any kind of trading/buying/selling of goods/currency/items outside of the game is something that should be discouraged. To the point where there is no need for it to be punishable through legal actions but rather the players themselves would feel no need to. It is in the developer's best interest to keep a tight grip on the economy in certain ways while having it be absolutely free and open within the game it self in other ways. This ultimately promotes the most healthy environment. While I believe in - to a degree- free economies in games, we must also realize that however much a game world's economy might resemble a real life economy, you're still playing a game that is not the real world and different rules of "living" apply in that game than in real life. As such, a measure of control is always needed. More so than for real life economies.
One way to do that is to create a game mode that doesn't allow trading with people outside of the games you create. "Solo self-found" as people call it these days, with some minor lifting of restrictions so that friends can play the self-found game together. This is something I would like to see added to the game post-release. Anyone who isn't interested in that can just play the normal modes and trade at their heart's content on D2JSP.
The developers did that for Diablo 3 and it failed miserably due to the fact that it was gold and nothing else (hello extreme inflation due to bots).
Technically, blizzard can terminate your account at any time for any reason.
So if they did decide to ban you, they probably just wouldnt list TOS as the reason.
I'm indifferent about jsp either way
You are 100% correct. You would have a right to know the reason, but they could get creative.