Great stuff as usual mate. I often used watered down pva (scenic glue) in this manner. I have found using a disposable atomiser (ask wife or girlfriend what this is. Used for scents and during drinking) gives a more even coverage and you don't get large pools of glue. Only issue they are of smaller capacity but easily re-filled. With this method I usually lay down scenic glue first then lay down the flock. When it is dry knock off the access then re-peat the scenic glue. Then I add another coat of scenic glue. This time before it dries I add highlight or contrasting flock. Knock off any access if required,but act this stage your looking at blending so only do it if you have too. Then I apply a sealing coat of scenic glue. Finally I come back and add tiny piles of high contrast say black green colours and seal them by applying the scenic glue over them using an eye dropper. With this method I mix my glue 60% water and 40% glue. I then add one to two drops of liquid soap, this allows the glue to asbsorded better by the flock as it breaks tension. Too many full Coates can still warp a 5cm thick polystyrene board. On another note I am still cracking on with my current project but the scientific thus is proving harder than expected. Cheers mate, keep them coming.
I will kill my adaptive text one day! During drinking should read during ironing. But act this should read but at this. I add the black green tiny piles to represent weeds and it removes that golf coarse look. Sorry guy I will pay better attention next time.
James Evans Atomiser - check! I'll have to try that way of blending, I've always blended in one go rather than in layers. Thanks for the heads up buddy :-)
another nice set of experiments, again ones i have never done before, i kind of expected the results you got out of them, but still great as a reference :D
I suspect that the model railroaders' way of doing things is driven by the fact that they're more likely to have an absorptive substrate (like dyed plaster) that needs flocking. If you spray thinned PVA onto that sort of substrate, you're likely to lose most of the moisture to absorption very rapidly, which would reduce the adhesion of the glue significantly. On XPS or MDF, this is not really an issue, of course.
Thanks for this series - it's been really instructive! (and well timed as Im planning to make some club boards soon) So what's your conclusion in terms of the best way to make the most resilient board? (sorry if you've stated that but wasn't clear to me). My impression was; paint board brown -> paint PVA -> scatter flock -> seal with watered down PVA ?
stingray4567 Glad you found it helpful mate. Most resilient, pva & watered down pva but it comes with warping issues. Without the warping, spray glue and spray varnish, a little more expensive but not prohibitively so mate
I would be interested in seeing same experiments with snow flocking. I have tried several methods for setting and sealing snow on a game terrain board and it is no easy task to keep the fluffy appearance of the snow and still make it suitably hardy enough for gaming. PVA spray does not work well at all from what I have found.
Great test and review. I think the test shows proof positive, the 2nd method, for the most part, will be best. Also, I think going with a second spray of watered down PVA glue after things have dried as well so as to not lose much overfill of flocking. I built a battle gaming board, but laid down things by the first method. It took a lot more effort to keep things set down on the board. I should have used the second type technique, and then applied an additional layer of glue after as well, essentially sandwiching things down. Next time I'll do better. Thanks! Regards, SammyC - E Farmingdale, NY
TheTerrainTutor I would like to send you some pics of a battle map I finished a little while ago ( a few months ). It was my first battle map, and site model that I've done in a long while. I did not do the layering technique exactly, although did something somewhat similar. After putting down a first flock layer tho, I enhanced it a bit with a follow up layer as well, to get a little bit of a different texture and color to the ground. Just let me know if I may post them to the Facebook page, as I don't know if I can post them here? I don't do videos yet, unfortunately not that advanced technology wize. :) But would love a criticism by you on what I did. Please let me know how to shoot you pics I will take. Thanks Mel. Appreciate ALL you do here. It's really cool.
TheTerrainTutor Dear Mel, Sammy here again. Thanks for the link. Please give me to the weekend, to get the battle map somewhere where I will take some shots with my camera, and then look to post them at the link you provided. Appreciate it, and hopefully you'll like what you will see. However, we all do learn from our mistakes, right? :) Stay well, hope to hear from you soon.
Looks like I will stick with my normal way. Brush on a slightly thinned mixture of PVA, 4 parts PVA 1 part water. Then watered down PVA when that is dry.
When using watered down PVA on model railroads we usually add a couple of drops of dishwashing detergent. It breaks the surface tension and the PVA/water mixture flows much more smoothly. A good example can be found in this video (3m 13s long): th-cam.com/video/rphfWlU_elk/w-d-xo.html
Great stuff as usual mate. I often used watered down pva (scenic glue) in this manner. I have found using a disposable atomiser (ask wife or girlfriend what this is. Used for scents and during drinking) gives a more even coverage and you don't get large pools of glue. Only issue they are of smaller capacity but easily re-filled. With this method I usually lay down scenic glue first then lay down the flock. When it is dry knock off the access then re-peat the scenic glue. Then I add another coat of scenic glue. This time before it dries I add highlight or contrasting flock. Knock off any access if required,but act this stage your looking at blending so only do it if you have too. Then I apply a sealing coat of scenic glue. Finally I come back and add tiny piles of high contrast say black green colours and seal them by applying the scenic glue over them using an eye dropper. With this method I mix my glue 60% water and 40% glue. I then add one to two drops of liquid soap, this allows the glue to asbsorded better by the flock as it breaks tension. Too many full Coates can still warp a 5cm thick polystyrene board. On another note I am still cracking on with my current project but the scientific thus is proving harder than expected. Cheers mate, keep them coming.
I will kill my adaptive text one day! During drinking should read during ironing. But act this should read but at this. I add the black green tiny piles to represent weeds and it removes that golf coarse look. Sorry guy I will pay better attention next time.
James Evans Atomiser - check! I'll have to try that way of blending, I've always blended in one go rather than in layers. Thanks for the heads up buddy :-)
another nice set of experiments, again ones i have never done before, i kind of expected the results you got out of them, but still great as a reference :D
Terrain Direct Me too mate but it's always good to actually check ;-)
I'd like to see the additional step of resealing for both methods, because I kind of liked the look of the scatter first flocking.
Kevin Watts I'll save that for a future test mate ;-)
I suspect that the model railroaders' way of doing things is driven by the fact that they're more likely to have an absorptive substrate (like dyed plaster) that needs flocking. If you spray thinned PVA onto that sort of substrate, you're likely to lose most of the moisture to absorption very rapidly, which would reduce the adhesion of the glue significantly. On XPS or MDF, this is not really an issue, of course.
Thanks for the insight bud
Interesting experiment. Thanks for sharing.
Stronghold Crafter Kev No worries buddy
Hi Mel thanks for video, do you know of any strong sealants than PVA ?
Jon Simpson Spray matt varnish mate :-)
Not surprising results, good share
***** Cheers buddy
Thanks for this series - it's been really instructive! (and well timed as Im planning to make some club boards soon)
So what's your conclusion in terms of the best way to make the most resilient board? (sorry if you've stated that but wasn't clear to me).
My impression was; paint board brown -> paint PVA -> scatter flock -> seal with watered down PVA ?
stingray4567 Glad you found it helpful mate. Most resilient, pva & watered down pva but it comes with warping issues. Without the warping, spray glue and spray varnish, a little more expensive but not prohibitively so mate
I would be interested in seeing same experiments with snow flocking. I have tried several methods for setting and sealing snow on a game terrain board and it is no easy task to keep the fluffy appearance of the snow and still make it suitably hardy enough for gaming. PVA spray does not work well at all from what I have found.
Yeah a snow themed round would be great
Duane Clark Actually that's a cracking idea, it's an area I've struggle with in the past. Good suggestion mate, thanks :-)
Martin Adi On the list mate
Great! Looking forward to seeing what you come up with.
Great test and review. I think the test shows proof positive, the 2nd method, for the most part, will be best. Also, I think going with a second spray of watered down PVA glue after things have dried as well so as to not lose much overfill of flocking. I built a battle gaming board, but laid down things by the first method. It took a lot more effort to keep things set down on the board. I should have used the second type technique, and then applied an additional layer of glue after as well, essentially sandwiching things down. Next time I'll do better. Thanks! Regards, SammyC - E Farmingdale, NY
ishyab011 I like the idea of combining the layers, more experimenting hey :-)
TheTerrainTutor
I would like to send you some pics of a battle map I finished a little while ago ( a few months ). It was my first battle map, and site model that I've done in a long while. I did not do the layering technique exactly, although did something somewhat similar. After putting down a first flock layer tho, I enhanced it a bit with a follow up layer as well, to get a little bit of a different texture and color to the ground. Just let me know if I may post them to the Facebook page, as I don't know if I can post them here? I don't do videos yet, unfortunately not that advanced technology wize. :) But would love a criticism by you on what I did. Please let me know how to shoot you pics I will take. Thanks Mel. Appreciate ALL you do here. It's really cool.
post them here mate ... facebook.com/groups/TheTerrainTutorsTerrainiacs
TheTerrainTutor
Dear Mel, Sammy here again. Thanks for the link. Please give me to the weekend, to get the battle map somewhere where I will take some shots with my camera, and then look to post them at the link you provided. Appreciate it, and hopefully you'll like what you will see. However, we all do learn from our mistakes, right? :) Stay well, hope to hear from you soon.
Looks like I will stick with my normal way. Brush on a slightly thinned mixture of PVA, 4 parts PVA 1 part water. Then watered down PVA when that is dry.
437cosimo It works for me matey ;-)
When using watered down PVA on model railroads we usually add a couple of drops of dishwashing detergent. It breaks the surface tension and the PVA/water mixture flows much more smoothly. A good example can be found in this video (3m 13s long):
th-cam.com/video/rphfWlU_elk/w-d-xo.html
Here's another video (3m 30s) by the same guy explaining "wet water", how to make it and how to use it.
th-cam.com/video/8j-pl2uoWOg/w-d-xo.html
good info :)
benjamin taylor cheers mate
Anotheŕ good experiment bud
Martin McNeil Cheers mate