Honestly the community consensus has arrived at mint being the best for new user and if you ever look at thread recommending distros for new users its 95% mint and PopOS
Linux users constantly tell people that they just need to learn how to tinker with it and try out new distros. No. I really don’t need to do this. My computer needs to run games, and mass market programs with ZERO tinkering on my part. Any tinkering and problem solving needs to come AFTER that. I like computers, I like tinkering. But computers are a *tool* first. Any troubleshooting and diving down how to forums to accomplish simple tasks means it has failed as a tool. The customization and option to tinker must be there *after* it is stable and compatible with as much hardware and software as possible.
Problem is either you get a stable distro, or to get the newest kernel (with more hardware support). What I think we need is really good tutorials on how to fix your wifi, graphics cards and printer, and guide on just the necessary commands to use the terminal in order to install new stuff
This. Absolutely this. Any time the expectation of stuff to actually work gets brought up, the Linux community rushes in to claim that it's not a problem on Linux, it's more of a problem on Windows and Mac, and thay you're evil for having expected your computer to function properly. The Linux community as a whole seems to be so far outside of the realm of regular users that the very idea of sitting down at the computer, installing a program, and then using it for an hour without configuring or customizing anything and without needing to look at some technical manual to make it function is seemingly completely foreign.
@@escthedark3709 Ok but this is flat out missinformation. When you get past the problems with wifi, graphics and printers (which, let's be honnest, is at least worse on Windows), most things just work, sometimes better than on Windows or Mac. I'm one of those dirty Ubuntu users, who use most things with minimal customization, and things just work. And for the rares cases where they don't, they don't half work (like most things on Windows which crash for no reason), they straight up don't work, often because I try to do something niche, and when I find a fix, it fixes several things in that niche. I'm serious when I say Linux is extremely stable when you don't try to do things that would not even be possible on Windows or Mac in the first place. And when you try to tinker, it has an actually decent chance to stay stable, which is plenty more than you can expect when you're a tinkerer
@@sophiatrocentraisin Having tried Ubuntu, Mint, and Arch, I think that we have extremely different definitions of "just work", or rather, you're correct but only because you're not new to Linux. Linux only tends to "just work" if you know exactly what you're doing and don't get confused at any point. For example, KDE's Dolphin file manager refuses to function out of the box because it refuses to manage files that require it to be run as sudo, it doesn't tell you that it needs to be run as sudo, and it isn't capable of being run as sudo on a fresh install. If you're familiar with Linux, it's literally a thirty second fix. If you're not, well it took me two days to figure out what the problem was and how to fix it. This is a recurring theme with any distro I've tried (granted it's been a good 5 years since I tried Mint), where problems with simple two minute solutions take hours or days to solve simply because Linux demands the user to be extremely knowledgeable about how it works. If you're not knowledgeable, you're left almost completely in the dark about how to fix even the most basic of issues.
I'm actually amazed at how many commenters don't understand tbe problem. All of you are genuinely trying to be helpful, but the advice only shows how far Linux is from becoming a mainstream OS for regular people. For a regular user a computer is not meant to be tinkered with. They want a system that "just works". To them, the choice of downloading an app for win10 or win11 is complex and confusing. They don't want to know what a "gnome" or a "kde" is, they just want to run OfficeProgram 23 - oh, and if their 19 year old printer just works by plugging it in, that'd be swell. To convert these users, Linux needs a single default setup that runs every common app without manual configuration or dependencies. Every common configuration they do need should be easily found just a few mouseclicks away. Basically, all the UX that MS is making worse in each update to Windows. Only after all of those things exist in an easy 1-click install distro will the average computer user even listen when you talk about all the real strengths of Linux. This is the view of someone who has worked in win/mac environments since the 90s, while wishing Linux could overtake Windows for just as long.
@@dwight3555 This. "X can be done on Linux too" is something I see all of the time from the Linux community, but many people walk away from Linux extremely bitter due to the unreasonable expectations built up by Linux evangelists. "Technically possible" and "practical" are two completely different things for most people, yet the Linux community generally seems to think that they're equivalent.
I was a windows user / fan. dabbled with linux but always came back to windows when i needed to get some work done. Since 1 month ago, a linux os is now my powering my daily driver and I am not intending to go back any time soon. what happened?. In a nutshell, end of windows 10 support. For the first time I was not happy with Microsoft, windows 11 would mean replacing perfectly good hardware and the final straw was "Recall". A little research and Linux mint 22 was installed. It just worked out of the box, all hardware detected and all the software I use was either available as a native linux application or a good alternative worked out just fine, one minor issue was a network monitoring tool i need but wine solved that, i am not a gamer or a video editor just an average general user. My advice to millions of windows users that are in the same position I was, if your not a gamer or tied into adobe products then i believe Linux mint 22 is ready for mainstream adoption by pissed off windows users. Sorry bill, its been a great ride, I thank you , wish you all the best, its just time for me to move on.
Because its greatest strength is one of its major weaknesses; lack of standardization. Neckbeards cannot agree on what is the best of the best for the widest audience.
There ought to be a reference distro, not something to be used as a daily driver, but something which represents the core requirements which must be extended to any distro. But we do have that, we just have a bunch of reference distros, and I don't see how to bridge that gap. For instance, there's never going to be an agreement over which package manager the distro uses. For a while, when the number of major distros was small, it was easier to say you were running Slackware, or Redhat, etc. If you had a child distro based on Debian, maybe that should be the "name" of the distro and not "Rockstar Porcupine." Think of this like how OEM machines which ship Windows might have different bundles and bloat pre installed. I'd also argue that every child distro should have a minimum reference distro configuration which would be the same in every child distro as a license requirement. There needs to be something which drives some homogeneity; gas is the pedal on the right, the brake is on the left, and every driver sits on the right and drives on the right side of the road...
is harder to cheat on Linux as the tools need to be full supported to the system you using Windows used old programs which linux was not able to do unless is uses the code that not changed when is switched More Devs on Windows for hacking the games with their Cheats because they got the highest rate of users using it -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Less Devs on Linux has it harder to find out why is not working because the anti-cheat can't run in wine or the server think is hacking system statcounter said is ( 73.31% ) - for Windows 4.5% for Linux even if Chromebook was to be good for that title they need to still deal with Sharing the love to ( free source's users ) valorant - can't even will work with it has it by their anti-cheat i think i know why they call it Vanguard replace guard with kidnapper and your see why they use ( van for the start from their anti-cheat Hint if it want you to sign an TOS void it because is not worth being with a anti-cheat that sound like a kidnapper was in control would you ( Hint Void PC kernel-level driver as it maybe an Keylogger or Exploiter to share info ( if they never say which info shared are you sure is not the account details )
_Edited for grammatical blunders._ The big issue I see is that basically everyone developing linux software (desktop environments in particular) can’t seem to understand what user friendly means. Basically any DE for Linux is plagued with technicalities that are great for insane customization but it can be extremely technical, and sometimes it's not packaged well or organized intuitively, imho. The vast majority on Linux currently seem to favor customization and technicality rather than ease of use and simplicity. It doesn’t help that there’s so many visually broken programs , especially duplicates that are sometimes incompatible and redundant variations or forked clones.
Yes. I need to get work done. "KDE is so customizable!" They say. I don't care. I need to switch the mouse to left hand and get to work. I don't care to spend an hour diddling with arcane and hidden desktop settings first.
It often seems the programmers develop their version for themselves and when others say we want something more usable for regular users it's like asking for the impossible. And saying you can just change the code and recompile is really not an a proper reply to the regular user out there.
None of the most recommended distros are KDE and everytime I recommend something to someone new, they always hate how "outdated" mint looks or how "macOS" gnome looks or how "empty of features" it is. They end up loving linux only when they try out something KDE based. It really stresses me out how the whole linux distros thing is so focused on gnome, while most new ex-windows users absolutely hate gnome.
I'm an old former Windows user, and I can't stand Gnome. I left the main Ubuntu when they went to Gnome, I had stuck with it from 6.06 to 14.04, but Unity 8 and Gnome were too much.
@javabeanz8549 i can assure you that like you, there are millions of others. Windows is the most used desktop OS on the planet, and most windows users use windows because they don't like mac. Many windows laptops are much more expensive than macs and most people still buy windows. So why would they like a gnome desktop? They don't. We need more KDE focused distros. The best we have for ease of use is Kubuntu and Nobara KDE, but both of those are pretty advanced anyway. Nobara has a pretty weird update system and can break itself since for some unknown reason they don't use the KDE native updates. Kubuntu has the snaps problem and many other ubuntu BS like very outdated wine and drivers. Still, those are two of the only distros we can recommend new users, and both of them are far from perfect. However, Kubuntu is, in my opinion, lightyears ahead a better recommendation for an ex-Windows user than any other gnome distro. STOP RECOMMENDING GNOME/GTK DEs TO EX WINDOWS USERS (This is for those 99.9% of youtubers and linux users that recommend Mint or PopOS to everyone and their dog)
No. Zorin by a mile. The community will make switchers Way more comfortable. Linux Mint people have an old 2005 Linux mentality which causes people to Run.
Yeah, but once people migrate to it, it'll become junk because it'll either be taken over by someone with a big ego or its existing caretakers will become dictatorial in response to the sudden popularity. The GNU/Linux community is obsessed with ostracism like they're an HOA. They'll never make a good product because any time anyone is on the right path, it'll get taken over by mentally ill people who covet the power over others more than the actual project.
@@DivergentDroid I just switched from regular Linux Mint to the directly Debian-based version, and it immediately improved performance and fixed a few weird little issues I was having using the regular version. I'm new to this stuff, but Zorin seems to be strictly Ubuntu-based, and cutting out that Ubuntu middleman appears to have some benefits, like some ppl have been saying.
you can use gnome without seeing it ever. fedora silverblue i think is the best option. its clean, barebone like a new mac, and uses flatpaks. so a good experience for everyone.
*A list of real reasons:* 1) Too little / insufficient / poor marketing. - The term ‘Linux’ is off-putting for many, if they know it at all. 2) An overwhelming variety of distributions, desktop environments, options for installing software, etc. - Even if you are willing to overcome these hurdles and familiarise yourself with the "ecosystem", you cannot ‘just like that’ switch to something else, as Linux is basically incompatible with itself. 3) Inadequate and inaccessible user interface / design. - Even the supposedly user-friendly distributions struggle with this and, in the worst case, require their users to use the command line for regular tasks. 4) The toxic and supposedly elitist Linux ‘community’. 5) The lack of (commercial) software and poor support for current or new hardware. 6) The lack of sensible / well-thought-out defaults. 7) Lack of / insufficient backward compatibility. 8) Insufficient / unfocused project management *Conclusion:* While Apple and Microsoft have been getting closer and closer to fulfilling the promise of ‘it just works’ with every iteration for decades, Linux is still struggling with the basics. - As long as the Linux ‘community’ does not (want to) realise that nobody is waiting for them, nothing will change. Using Linux as a main OS is basically like using an Old-Timer as a daily driver. You spend more time servicing and maintaining your device than actually driving it. - Setting up and running a Hackintosh as a daily driver is also a fitting metaphor. *A possible way out:* If there's anyone who can save desktop Linux, it's Valve. They have the resources, power, know-how and most importantly the WILL to actually make desktop Linux a thing. - Linus Torvalds thinks so too, by the way.
@@UmVtCg How can you be so sure when none of us even know exactly what killer features Steam OS for Desktop will offer? Just like any other Linux distro, I would boot this one live and try it out first.
Great comment. I would add a 9, accessibility and compatibility with assistive tech. I think if anything can bring Linux into worthwhile institutions, it's accessibility. It's a joke that Linux is so far behind in that regard.
@@UmVtCg you already can...it's called ChimeraOS :pp but idk I daily drive debian on all my laptops but for my gaming PC I've gotten chimeraOS on it and it's been fine.
HDR color management already seems perfect to me... They're still doing work on it? o_. Btw, my mind was blown when Linux HDR is unironically better than Windows HDR. xD
I recently switched to Linux and when i tell people this they have no idea what i'm talking about. The average person has never heard of it and has no idea an alternative to Windows exists. When i explain what Linux is as an OS and as Open source they love the idea and want to know more. Showing them Linux and what it's available software can do gets them on board even. So Linux sells itself, once people know it exist and see it on action. The problem is that we don't have a billion dollar company spending billions to advertise it to the masses. Obviously free, open source software can't spend billions on advertising but the community does somehow need to get the word out to the masses better.
Well that's where something like the Steamdeck comes in. Hell that's where Chrome OS started too. Both are MASSIVE Corps. Chrome OS is TOO locked down. Steamdeck has some of it's own issues, but certainly helped with Gaming a LOT!
I love the idea of Linux too, but the execution is absolute garbage when compared to alternatives. It comes across as almost deliberately jank at times, which isn't even entirely untrue. Having grown up with Windows, switching to Mac was slightly awkward for a bit before becoming tolerable in a day or two. Having tried switching to Ubuntu, Mint Cinnamon, and Arch, none of them stopped being a pain to do things even after weeks of trying to get used to it. It's not even the console, it's the horridly inconsistent ways you have to interact with programs that causes every little unexplored facet of using Linux to rapidly deteriorate into fighting against poor or inconsistent design choices.
Discard all the other takes, this is the correct one. As a recent adoptee of Linux. I don't know why so many Linux vets treat us newcomers like we are complete noobs when it comes to everything and we could just never possibly understand Linux. No, it's really not that difficult, guys lol. The issue is MARKETING, and that Linux has a bad reputation which is in part thanks to the "Linux is too complex" crowd.
i do not think advertisements would do the trick. for many people it is that they will use what they know from work. At work people will ether have Windows or Mac, because companys need support for the OS, and a Forum will not be enough. So what is needed would be a Linux distro that has a company behind it doing the support. Kinda like RHEL for servers but as a Desktop distro.
Few years later this video will be noted as "Reasons why Linux desktop is STILL not competitive against Win/Mac" as I can see exactly 0 of them actually beeing realized. I'm absolutely with you on those problems and I am telling those exact (wayland excluded) reasons why I don't use Linux desktop (I have no issue using linux as my server) to my Linux friends for more then 15 years, the problem is that they see those problems as strengths of linux.
I wish desktop linux had a better experience for new users - even though I wouldn't benefit directly, I would most likely benefit indirectly as the greater market share leads to more and (in the case of some proprietary stuff like discord) better software being available. Discord outside of Windows is garbage; I wouldn't use it at all if it weren't the primary discussion platform for the online communities I'm involved with.
the problem with the outdated looking apps are 2: 1) most of them are simply just old. 2) there are way more programmers working on linux than UI/UX designers, that makes so the old looking apps not get the appropriate visual updates in a timely manner
I don't really see why an "old" appearance is a problem. If the UI works, who cares what it looks like? Well, I guess people do care, 'cuz they complain about the antique look.
@baruchben-david4196 most commonly used systems have modernized their UI/UX with a different workflow from apps of old, people are used to it now, or the new generation who grew up with the new UI/UX and simply doesn't know how the old one works.
The shattered Linux community is probably the worst thing here, since in reality there's no perfect distro. If we want the Linux market share to grow, we need to stop acting like kids on a sandbox. We need to focus on the important things. For example some promotion, which will say to other people: "Linux is dead simple to use, it's rock solid and you can often daily-drive it even better than Windows."
Cmon, how easy is just to install RTX4000 GPU in linux with all the features you have in windows? And without touching terminal? On windows... download .exe, click install, next, next, next, done. Lot of people have HDR monitors. Does HDR works in linux? This is just daily driving, nothing extra
It's like a chicken and egg problem. Distros that suit newcomers do not get enough attention from experienced users for improvements, as experienced users tend to prefer more customizable distros. I feel guilty of that. I would like to help improveme Mint for new users, but Arch with tiling is a better fit for my needs. So, it's hard for me to daily drive Mint and understand areas of improvements.
@@dimitrioskoulartsas6184 I mean if you want to contribute, but it still needs a few features for you, you could always contribute as such that you create those features as extension. Have you tried the Cinnamon GTile extension, though? Maybe that fits your needs.
you actually described the biggest problem with foss. Either the devs are volunteer and focus on things they are interested or money comes from donations. And biggest money comes from enterprises. And as enterprises uses linux in servers mainly, the focus in development is in server environment. The same probelm can be seen in smaller scale all over the foss projects. @@dimitrioskoulartsas6184
Most of those problems are just marketing: fragmentation is just resolved if we just see linux as 3 branches Debian lts, fedora stable and arch beta; gatekeeping is just linux users that don't understand the average person using macos/windows and pretend that a gui is not essential for userfriendliness; outdated design is caused by linux having amazing developers but 0 designers EDIT. To be clear DE are good enough in my opinion especially the major ones(KDE, GNOME, CINNAMON and BUGIE in particular) what am I referring to bad design is in the app themselves with overly complicated UI(gimp for example), and the fact that apps do not conform to the desktop customisation a lot of times(especially if you are on a general package)
When it comes to Wayland, it's been really rough in terms of progress. I love how pretty and effortless it feels at times, but there's still a lot of work that needs to be done before it gets usable. I myself got fed-up with it because I had to fight it to do basic-ish things I'd normally do all the time on X11 (most of which involved using my screen tablet for drawing). Luckily Valve decided to swoop-in and take matters into their own hands, but for now I'm just going to wait until enough progress is made before switching back to Wayland again. Wayland is the future, but even after 15 years it's still not ready, and X11's mummified corpse still has to be dragged around a whole bunch.
@@MyouKyuubi Yes, but only because nothing has superseded it yet. When Wayland is finally on the level of X11 in terms of usability, you're gonna see all the popular FOSS things switch over like a pre-teen who found their dream-job while working at McDonalds. And for the rest there's XWayland which still uses X11, but in a more secured way. And for the few that don't work, then yeah, you can still use plain X11 until it's no longer supported. TLDR; the only reason we still need X11 is because Wayland is still undercooked.
@@thepuzzlemaster64 I use Nobara, isn't that a wayland distro? Seems to work fine-ish to me, few non-breaking bugs, like certain windows don't remember their positions, but otherwise it works fine. :o
@@MyouKyuubi Wayland is not good if you're using a screen-tablet to draw. On Debian there's no good Wayland equivalent app that allows you to remap keys on my tablet because they keep screwing-up the stylus, so I have to use udev to do it manually. Krita's little dockers start glitching-out whenever I try to move them to my main monitor (I use one to preview the full drawing so I don't have to constantly zoom in and out) On top of that Wayland doesn't automatically reconnect my tablet when I power it off and on, or when my PC goes into sleep mode forcing me to remove the display cable and re-inserting it (doing it any other way doesn't work). Lastly, turning-off my laptop's screen screws-up my stylus calibration, even if I told it to look for my tablet's name in Wayfire's config file. All of these things are things that I do on X11, and it works just fine there. All and all, Wayland is just not ready for me. As soon as Wayland can replicate my X11 workflow then I'll switch-over.
Or maybe I want something that works out of the box, has great printer support, has all the software I need, can support more than one monitor flawlessly and gets 95% of the job I need to do done?
Many native and evidently useful things on Windows not being on Linux is also a big issue. I installed cinnamon on a computer to test, and I realized you could not just right-click on something to create a shortcut, no no no, you have to press 3 keys at the same time, just so some obese incel can say "look mom, I'm not using the mouse on my computer!". Windows forces you to remove useless shit from your computer that should never be there. Linux forces you to add useful things to your computer that should be there by default. Removing things on Windows is infinitely easier than lurking obscure forums for hundreds of hours to get a decent working distro. I'm especially disappointed by cinnamon being heralded as "Oh it's basically all the good sides of Windows and looks very much like it, without all the bloatware!" that was a lie, it's not too hard to install (even if tutorials all around absolutely suck at explaining it) but things like the shortcut issue are just not worth bothering with. People are accustomed to Windows' quality of life basic options, as long as Linuxers refuse to give us this, it will remain the better option to stay on Windows no matter how much bloatware has to be removed. Another issue: this is the first video I watch from your channel, and despite having already installed a distro AND having to use a bit of Linux when I was in university, I have no idea what KDE is, what Wayland is or what those issues are. I don't know what gnome is, I don't know what makes ubuntu ubuntu, what exactly is debian and all this stuff. Normal people are intimidated when you hit them with 15 different words of incomprehensible jargon and it's one of the big reasons why they don't bother with linux. If you speak about Linux to anyone who is not a full on neckbeard, you need to be extremely detailed and clear and not bash people over the head with alien unexplained jargon.
@@johnsmith-xw7hv I get the same "make it simple" issue with solutions to other issues, like Whoogle for example, which I cannot install without creating an account on some random website I have never heard of before. Give me a .exe or don't bother. I use Luxxle, and it's generally good, but why isn't there a simple function to block specific websites from appearing? It's what I find maddening, so many people are ready to do all the hard work, and then they refuse to do the stupid easy bare minimum to add QoL people expect and deserve. Users don't care about feasibility, they care about practicality. Don't just make something that is feasible to use, make something that is more practical to use.
If you don't know about then you just don't know how computers work, and just need to learn a little bit about computers, which will naturally involve months of learning stuff that's completely irrelevant outside of Linux distros.
I think we can't overlook the fact that unlike when I got into Linux in 96, Windows doesnt crash down to bare metal every 30 minutes anymore, its not as bulletproof as Linux, but most desktop users dont need that. That fact coupled with the fact that Windows is pre installed on most hardware the consumer is going to buy means that unless they are aware there are options, they won't even look.
My own experience: too many distros are confusing for new users, even when you end up with Mint you have 3 options to choose from and the differences at the point in your linux journey are difficult to understand. UI/UX designers are underrated by developers (imho) , after a couple of years on mint I bought a tuxedo laptop and it just works, I've never had any hardware issues. It just works, I feel in control, and linux has made me fall back in love with computers.
One of the biggest reasons that most mainstream operating systems have the marketshare they do, is simply because they come preinstalled on new computers. Where as for Linux, you have to go out of your way and download off the distros website a copy, etch it to a USB using a 3rd party tool like Rufus to balena etcher. Then install it by entering the bios. For normal users, it’s all too much. If Linux distros came on computers out the box, all new users would have to do is input their name, password and internet password. And that’s one of the big reasons google chrome OS became so massive. And it’s based off linux. The next best things would be to sell at big box retail stores, pre formatted install USBs that if you plug them into a windows PC, it would install the distro like you were doing a software update or upgrade from windows 10-11 where you don’t have to think about anything.
Exactly!! A lot of the comments here (and yes, the video itself) state that the overwhelming choice in distributions is why Linux is stagnating, but I think that's really only stopping people from /switching/. Switching to Linux on an existing machine is /significantly/ more difficult than just buying a device with a distribution pre-installed. The existence of a king distribution won't cause Linux to get hundreds of millions more users; it would only help the odd individual who's opted to convert a computer over to Linux. Two clarifications: 1. The existence of a king distribution /might/ help adoption from PC manufacturers, though I get the feeling they'd still want to fork it 2. I'm not sure about the whole automatic install idea, since partitioning work is still too complicated for most
@@TheAyanamiRei mind you, that is only a recent product and only one single device with a specific use case of playing games on the go. Windows and chrome os have their marketshare by having multiple OEM manufacturers having it installed via a license on their machines. And being on traditional computer form factors helps it be used for more than just gaming.
1. for like 70% of distros you don't have to enter the bios at all to install it, the boot menu is not the bios. (there are a handful that despise secure boot which would require you to enter the bios, that's besides the point tho 2. like 90% of distros you boot the drive after writing it, and it's no joke as easy to install as windows, you're just on the desktop environment by default and go through a GUI application where you select your drive, if you want encryption, yatta yatta, then click install and wait. Once the system reboots you have linux. I personally hate it when people like you make it seem more difficult than it is, the only time I've ever had to A enter the bios or B have actual background knowledge in technology to install a linux os is whenever Ubuntu doesn't like secure boot or I'm building my own arch build from scratch, which is not a beginner project so it is a null point here anyway. Please actually use more distros if you're gonna complain about it being hard.
The huge problem with those RTFM gatekeepers and often overall tech people is that they just can't comprehend the basic concept of ergonomics. If you would have to read the manual for every single thing you get - you'll probably go insane within couple of days. Cause no kettel or a microwave would make you read the manual cause if you don't and you suddenly push that button for exactly 2.42 seconds - it would fuckin explode. It's all made maximum fool-proof and intuitive. And if you produce a car and that car makes hundreds of crashes, most likely your car is shit, not the drivers who should have go for F1 driving license to handle your masterpiece.
You need to come out into the real world a bit more my friend, i work for an IT company filled with highly educated people, they cant even figure out how the dishwasher works. The dishwasher is used for cups and glass mugs, all the cool kids can only figure out how to start the program on the dishwasher that takes 4 hours and 30min, where as the manual states that you should be using the 21min program for this task... But then again higher educated people must know best right ? Morale is, smarter people RTFM, the other segment stays in their kruger donniger loop forever.
I would be happy if there was a universal binary that I could install on Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora, Arch or any other without breaking the system and running in native speed.
I've heard that's where flatpaks and app images come into play. Haven't used them much myself, but I'm shocked more apps don't have them as alternative download options. It could even work for paid and proprietary apps as well.
Just chose the binary for what you are running, how hard is that? Or use the software store for older stable versions of the software. The choice there is between system, flatoak or snap. They all work the same in the end.
This. I agree, like just a package that containerizes and automatically integrates, this can be possible with distrobox but requires tweaking, and no i dont quite consider flatpak, appimages, and even less snaps to be the solution cause as we can see software vendors often don't ship things these ways..
I tried Ubuntu 10 years ago, had a driver problem and kindly asked for help in a community, including system information, what I had already tried, what error message I got .... and how I was treated there, you could call it insulting. Now I've had Linux Mint in dual boot for half a year to get started into Linux and have hardly any problems because the hardware is fully supported and I read almost only friendly messages in the community when I look something up. Very good! I still have Windows 11, because there are better distros for gaming, but I'm slowly getting to grips with the subject.
Some points to address with your statements: 1.) Linux is not meant to be a drop-in replacement for Windows, it's a totally different OS and so must be the expectation of users that want to use it. Most of the software on Linux is FOSS and developers work on it on their free time, because they are passionate about it or because of donations. There are of course exceptions to this, like the GNOME and KDE foundations which are paid to produce applications and maintain their desktop environments, but they have much less budget and resources than Microsoft, so they are likely to produce application with less quality, both in terms of features, bugs and UI. A great example of this problem are photo and video editing software on Linux, they are far behind compared to their paid counterparts. So all this to say that you can't expect all to work seamlessly ( this isn't even true on Windows by the way, even if on a different degree ), any user will encounter bugs and maybe problems that must be addressed with the terminal, regardless of the distribution choice. I've personally used many distributions and even if on the surface it seems different, the story is always the same, you'll eventually wind up at the terminal, which is a good thing, because Linux spurs its users to tinker with it, it's not a plug and play OS and will never be. However this doesn't mean that there can't be easier distros to start with, but that if someone decides to make the switch it must expect to read and understand things along the way and not that things will just work. 2.) The problem of applications having a different or bad UI it's heavily related to what I said in the first point. Firstly the budget, usually there aren't UI specialists and the programmers do their work, and this alone may end up in subpar products. Then the FOSS nature itself causes software to have a fragmented style, because there is not a centralized authority which dictates how a certain software must look and feel, it's all up to the developers, hence you can't expect this kind of coherency. This can never be solved, unless money is pushed into foundations which will produce better FOSS software and that software would become so good to overshadow the other FOSS alternatives. Also just developing paid open source programs would be a great way to achieve this, people forget that Windows was a paid OS back in the day, and that now is free because it chews onto personal data, this is how it has prospered for these years. Big companies like Adobe produce their software just for Windows, because they know that the OS works for everyone and that everyone will use it and won't ever waste money trying to make a Linux version, because it wouldn't be convenient.
Honestly, the average user of most computers is not interested in the "why" but in the "does it work". I wouldn't want to blame the user for a lack of knowledge, especially in terms of setup, since it varies from distro to distro and is hard to obtain if you're not tech savvy. Better onboarding and first user experience is paramount and even the best distros fail in certain areas.
1. That really don't need to be the case since running Linux doesn't mean not running proprietary software in entirely. They "can" run proprietary software, but most of them aren't ported to it (although vocal members of the community are purist that FOSS/Libre should replace everything). The problem of this, the development cost for Linux is outstanding than just adding support for macOS or etc since they do have gazillion different subsystem for doing something (i.e. For sound, PulseAudio and Pipewire and For Graphics, X11 or Wayland. These different implementations), fragmentation of the system is too big that most of the boilerplate needed to write. Especially considering Wayland is missing core APIs for being proper compositor. For the donation and UI perspective, We indeed have several FOSS projects that do have better UI/UX in general. MuseScore 3 (despite the drama) or Blender. The problem is most of the vocal members of the community are favor of "Privacy" and "Libre" purists. Those applications improve faster since developer check user feedback with actual user inputs (not people nagging on support forums) with actual use cases (i.e. Telemetry), Most of the vocal members HATE this (due to "Telemetry = Spying" purists) and since they are all "developers", they don't have good understanding of what is a good User Interface/Experience is and just focuses make their CLI and underlying APIs available on GUI compartment., most of the governance in FOSS project that has terrible UI usually doesn't give a f about the UI/UX development and just focuses on what "developers" interact.
Reminder: Windows is still not free. It is endless free trial, but so is Total Commander and many other apps with infinite free version, but with limitation. Windows IS STILL A PAID PRODUCT. You can bypass limitations, use the free version for the rest of your life, but Windows was and still is a paid product, freemium at best, not *free*
"A great example of this problem are photo and video editing software on Linux" The vast majority of people, are not content creators, or artists... Your argument is only valid for like... 10% of the entire world population, aka, it's f**king invalid to 90% of the world whom are casual, average users that are happy with web browsing, Libre, and gaming... To which Linux is ABSOLUTELY a replacement for windows. GET... F**KING... REAL, brother... Oh my god... We need to stop making these arguments that are based on the use-case of a minority, it is not productive... Appeal to the majority FIRST, so you can secure USERS, which then increases MARKET SHARE, which then SECURES FUNDS... Only when we SECURE FUNDS, can we start making Linux TRULY viable for content creators and artists! Until then, you can feel free to stop yapping about the minority! -.- "Firstly the budget, usually there aren't UI specialists and the programmers do their work, and this alone may end up in subpar products." Your second point, bleeds into my argument against your first point... SECURE AVERAGE USERS FIRST... you can think about other things AFTER Linux desktop market share has gotten to where it needs to be, for corporations to take it seriously. First thing's first, don't get ahead of yourself... There's a proper order to things, respect that order, otherwise you will never get anywhere!
Windows has a single UI framework that all applications use. In macOS, there is one UI framework that all applications use. Sure, you can use other frameworks in your app on both systems (even from Microsoft and Apple themselves), but all of these frameworks use the one framework under the hood, at least to some extent (or are just wrappers around it, as in the case of Microsoft's and Apple's alternative frameworks). On Linux, you have GTK, Qt, X11lib, and a bunch of more obscure frameworks. Then there are distros that only use X11, distros that use Wayland by default, distros that offer both. If you design your application for a framework that does not match the framework used by all the user's other applications or their desktop, the application will look and feel alien to the user. Choice is only good if it doesn't matter what you choose, but in this case it does. I hate running Qt applications on a GTK desktop and vice versa. I hate running X11 applications in distros that otherwise only use Wayland. A Win 95 application running on Windows 11 looks better to a Windows 11 user than an X11 application running in Wayland. And you can take the above as a pattern and extend it to ... startup services. Windows has one, macOS has one. Linux has init.d, systemd, OpenRC, etc., and they don't all work the same, act the same, and can be managed by the user the same way. Linux doesn't even have a standard font library for rendering fonts to the screen, and yes, different font libs render the same font in different ways, and the user will notice that something looks off. And don't get me started on desktops. Again, Windows and MacOS have only one desktop. You can customize it to your liking (well, not so much with MacOS), but there is only one desktop. This sacred freedom of choice is Linux's biggest problem, as there are no standards and no common ground between distros, and often not even within a single distro. The only real thing that works that way is the kernel itself, because there is only one Linux, but everything in userspace is a total mess, because there is no entity that defines "this is how we do it, and this is the only way we do it", and if you want to do it differently, then you create your own system like Android, which also uses a Linux kernel, but is otherwise its own system and not comparable to desktop Linux systems. And no, I don't want to kill variants. Feel free to offer 100 alternatives to everything, but they must look, feel, and behave the same to the user if they are core system components. You can add features that others don't have and that aren't required by the core definition, but their core functionality must be the same. Just like I can choose between 100 different SQL databases, but the core SQL syntax is always the same syntax and will work on all those variations. For apps, yeah, freedom of choice, pick any app you want. Applications are not part of the core system.
I'm gonna stick with the penguin 🐧. Infact programming, Linux administration etc amoung other tasks I only see doing with the penguin moving forward and as a bonus teach my little niece and nephew the way moving forward.
In the end it doesn't matter if it's the fault of Linux that there aren't fully functional drivers for everything or that software isn't build for Linux. It's still the problem of Linux and a reason someone doesn't join.
The real problem is the lack of software. I tried Linux and I couldn't find Linux versions or any good alternatives to the software I use, and as someone who mainly uses proprietary Windows software, trying to run those in WINE and get them to integrate with the Linux file system is more trouble than it's worth, most people (like me for instance) are just not prepared to put the time and effort in to it.
Distro independent software does work though. Flatpak and AppImage make this easy but even without those generic binaries can be run across all Linux distros and in some cases even on BSD.
If you want to send emails, surf the web, organize your photos, stream some videos, and not much else then Mint is the way to go. Re-use an older system that “won’t support Windows” any longer.
Effing Wayland, poor Xrdp, Flatpak apps failing left and right, really bad compatibility with Remote Desktop apps, D-bus related issues, inability of remote booting with LUKS, Really bad selection of common utility apps, Perpetual permission errors, really bad multiple monitor support. These are the reasons why small businesses DO NOT choose Desktop Linux.
Couple things. Remmina is a fine RDP client. Though xRDP is a pain to setup yourself, standard Gnome Fedora and Ubuntu, I can tell you, just turn on remote access in the settings menu and it handles it for you. I'm sure many other distros have it built in. You can remote boot with luks...look up dropbear. But that's a linux server thing not a tool typically used in linux desktop. Permission errors? Can't say I've seen the same weirdness with permissions like I do with NTFS on file servers. I'll admit ACLs are a skill, but I have never been flat out lied to by the operating system on what the permission is like I have with Windows and NTFS. But maybe your experience is different.
As for software looking old, I would say people use old looking software for its features. If they were down to give up features for design, the suite of libadwaita apps covers most needs with quite nice design. But no Linux distro can force its users to give up their old looking software like big corporations can.
Everyone and their mum copying Apple and Google's dumbed down, overly big and padded flat design is what's ruining UI for me. If you're looking for that "Apple polish"... there's GNOME.
I want mine to look somewhat like windows 7 with stuff that is inside sysmon directly on the taskbar along with processor temps, no rounded corners, etc.
My ideas for better Linux unity: Three distros is a good idea. I think most of us can agree that Debian and Arch should be on that list, Debian for those favoring stability and Arch for the bleeding edge and advanced users. The third should be (hot take) Ubuntu, the snap issue isn't that bad and most of my apps are installed as .deb anyway. Ubuntu is really easy to use and really stable. You rarely even need the terminal. Three desktop environments is also a good idea imo, I was thinking Plasma for customization and windows-y-ness, GNOME for mac-like-ness and consistency, and Hyprland for those who prefer tiling. Also snaps and linyapps are bad imo, I think all distros should just support flatpaks outta the box. Its not THAT hard to get flatpaks working on Ubuntu, but it does require some stuff that shouldn't need to be done. Ubuntu and Deepin should just switch to flatpaks. There's also the question of deb vs rpm, maybe arch could have deb emulation and ubuntu and debian could have rpm emulation.
@@kidgoku1984 Not all of those are for noobs, just those are good projects that are well established and in my opinion have earned their respective places in the linux landscape
@@kidgoku1984 also I've thought about it more and the variety in desktop environments is actually a good thing, because it allows you to build your own experience.
@@CrafterAurora sure, but I think this video was trying to say that we should mention 2-3 distros for noobs Simple misunderstanding there lmao. Variety in desktop environments is great! But not for new users... I don't think a new user would be comfortable building their own experience on Hyprland, Gnome, or XFCE for example.
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" the snap issue isn't that bad and most of my apps are installed as .deb anyway"... Looking into our personal cases as examples is what has taken us here.
Can we all agree that the best suggestion for newbies is Linux Mint? it's the most popular one, easiest to troubleshoot, so i think we should suggest that for beginners, instead of anything else.
I switched from Windows to Mint in 2019, it went well. Cinnamon is similar enough to Windows 7 to make quick start. I've heard good things about POP but have no experience with it.
@@duracell80 Zorin is unstable though? At least last time i tried it, the desktop kept disappearing randomly, and i had to restart the computer to get it back, lol. Zorin is horrible.
Now I know this video is Linux for the average everyday user, but I see a lot of people in the comments saying how Linux is worthless and will never be used in the real world. They don't really know how the real world operates. If Linux got wiped out today and no trace of it was left behind, then we would have a worse internet outage than CrowdStrike, and this would indeed affect the normal everyday user
I think the difference is people saying linux is worthless are talking about the graphical desktop designed for end user use. Not server versions. Those i think we can all agree on are stable and extremely good at what they do.
Wayland is not ready yet, but many apps are still being developed and maintained in X11 because X11 is not dead (yet) and it just works, no matter how spaggetti coded and screwed up on the inside it actually is
That's essentially it. That plus the Windows fanbois (maybe bots) that always run in a repeat the same myths of Linux that were true in 1999 "Linus is so hard to use. You have to type in lots of commands in the terminal to get anything done. It's too hard for non-programmers to use." This propaganda is HIGHLY effective and because people are generally TERRIFIED of the command line they will pay any amount of money and put up with any amount of Microsoft abuse to avoid it. I hate to say it but the bots work.
@@jedipadawan7023 Using brain isn't that illegal nowadays... I'm not a Linux fanboy, I just got fed up with windows bloat and slow OS.. Windows 7 was last best windows... period
@@perplexreality6081 Using the CLI has always scared people. Going back to DOS and CP/M, I remember people being TERRIFIED of typing commands. It's just not natural to most people and they are convinced they will type in the wrong thing and cause physical damage. It's not a brain problem, it's a fear problem. So putting the terminal and Linux together as bots (I think) do is HIGHLY effective as a deterrent. Of course, Linux has great GUI's now (er, GNOME open to debate, mind) and Linux needs terminal as much as Windows needs powershell but the bots always appear.
@@jedipadawan7023 I don't knw what u r talking about.. I'm just saying windows 7 is last best windows according to me rest all are slower bloated ad infested windows.. That's why I switched to Linux mint since a year now
@@perplexreality6081 Oh OK. Making reference to 'brain' suggested you might have been arguing that people being afraid of the CLI might be 'brain deficient.' My apologies for that misunderstanding. I mentioned, tho, because I HAVE seen many a Linux make that claim and state the CLI use is A good Thing and people really, really get down to the CLI work and writing helpful scripts. That doesn't help. Seen that MANY times in comments and the context in how I read your post. Sorry that I got it wrong. I bailed on Windows 7 as well. Everything after 7 has just been Microsoft abuse.
As a linux user using kde I... really don't know which applications looks old lol, all I use as of right now looks way better than windows and I seriously wasn't aware of any software used as an example (I use kdenlive which looks fairly good I don't use a calendar app, maybe that's why?)
I daily drove Linux for about 4 months but it's just to unstable. Every time I start it there's always something. That plus the lack of proper alternatives (like the Adobe suite, you gotta compile VMware yourself and deal with dependencies (virtual box is just to janky to replace VMware) and autohotkey etc). Hopefully the windows 10 end of life will encourage more people to move to Linux and in turn encourage developers to make proper alternatives. There's also the annoying mindset of Linux software devs to be as diffirent from the industry stuff as possible, just because (like krita devs complaining about people wanting more Photoshop like stuff)
I’m on the camp of leaving linux as a workstation/casual use desktop. If you want to do anything gaming or productivity wise keep it to windows/mac. When I was younger (turning 28 next month) I used to tinker and mess around constantly with computers and multiple distros. Getting older and balancing the gym/work/social life and family. I don’t want to come home to something that may or may not work. In my case it’s games. I just want to have my system for the most part work. Linux just needs to be streamlined to “just work” for it to be a main desktop for all users. Currently on Mac and windows. I love Linux but can’t be bothered as much anymore.
You're thinking about it too narrowly. The freedom of choice that can be paralyzing comes from different people having different sometimes mutually exclusive ideas and communities forming around those solutions. Instead of thinking about is gatekeeping you should consider that most users would like new users to do one of the following: - find a distro that you vibe with with minimal modifications - cobble something together until you are content - strike your own path and create what you feel is missing which others might find useful I personally think especially when talking about it online that people need to stop treating Linux as this blob that's supposed to cater to you when you are empowered to encouraged to take matters into their own hands.
Linux mint xfce is my first Linux experience, and to this day i use it on my work laptop and my desktop, it looks slick after i modified it and it only sips on ram (600-800 mb) .
People bought Windows systems because they were sold in the stores. People went through pain and suffering to learn how to use Windows. People don’t want to suffer through learning something new.
Some solutions to mentioned topics as I see them. 1: Just don't be mean and suggest your newbie friend something - well newbie friendly. Mint or Ubuntu should be fine for newcomer way more than Arch. 2: Just DON'T be gatekeeper. Everyone was newbie at some point. 3: I heard Valve put their fingers into this topic, so we might be covered 4: Matter of preference. If you ask me - as long as it works and is logical to use - it may look even like win98
Why is the PC successful when choice is a bad thing? If I don't want choice, I can buy a Mac. If I do want to have more choice which hardware to use, I can pick up a PC. But then, for both Windows and macOS, I'm forced to go with whatever MS or Apple think is the right thing to do. Now imagine Linux would be only Fedora, only 6 months release cycle, and only vanilla GNOME, and only Flatpak as a universal packaging format. Might work for the many people, but I doubt this would be the key to more desktop usage. The majority of Linux developers are collaborating, even when focusing on different distros and different desktop environments. Sometimes there are competing solutions (see Snap and Flatpak), but eventually, often one standard emerges as a de-facto winner (see systemd). And if multiple solutions exist in parallel for a long time, then maybe there's a need for multiple solutions (see the different desktop environments and window managers: lightweight vs. full-featured, opinionated vs. configurable, traditional vs. progressive etc.). TLDR: we don't need something that targets the 95% of people who are served well with Windows and macOS if this would mean that we would make life worse for the 5% of people who want Linux on the desktop to be exactly as it is: The way they want it to be.
Choice is perfectly fine. But you still need a distribution that delivers what Windows does so people have a place where they can learn without having to read a bunch of documentation and forum posts that doesn't make much sense unless you have a background in IT. I would say the distribution that fulfills this better than the distributions I have tried so far is Linux mint. It just has less compatibility than something like arch. We do need something that targets 95% of people, because they are not served well with Windows or macOS. The amount of people I know that`s not techy at all that is frustrated with with windows because of the constant privacy breaches and spyware makes that clear. There is a need for a basic OS that doesn't try to fuck you over by collecting info on everything you do.
@@paro2210 I agree 100%, that's something we need for sure. And Mint is probably the best Windows alternative for most people. It also comes with an always up to date kernel now (HWE), so compatibility shouldn't be a problem anymore.
When I saw the title I immediately said "too many distros" and "incompatability between linux distros themselves" as the main issues. Having watched it now I was right, and he gave a couple of others I hadn't considered.
I feel like Linux is always several years away from hitting it big, always held back by compatibility and lack of specific features important at the time
Not a problem for me. The things that don't work on Linux I don't use anyway and gaming is boring. Already switched to Linux in 2017 and never looked back.
With the introduction of frog protocols for wayland being introduced and already having such a massive impact on how new protocols are introduced, I think it's pretty safe to say that the wayland problem shouldn't be an issue
I agree with point number 1. There's too many distros as how there's too many spoken languages. I think we should stick to only one language and that's german.
It is probably fine on desktop but for certain laptops, especially with more than one gpu, it is a major pain in the ass to install drivers. It took a major company to get involved to finally make gaming better, but it still is a pain in some cases.
@@Mzansi74 mint is not the "linux" people are referring to. If a distro comes with easily configured desktop environments, its not at all different than windows or macos. I'd want to see you easily move someone with absolutely no tech background into a distro like arch without the use of archinstall, where they explain how each of the commands they're writing in the cli works on a low level basis. That is the entire point of linux anyway. If you dont understand how or why your system works, not much point in using linux, going for KDE, Gnome, Mint, Ubuntu or anything else. Nobody is referring to those as "linux". Use arch, customise all your system files to add custom scripts to automate processes like devops or security, start your own nixos configuration and implement concurrency, per-start switches with automated backups, modularity through flakes with a real-time flake config switcher and so on. Write your own sound drivers, write your own desktop environment from scratch, contribute to open source projects like hyprland or arch itself, fix github issues and so on. Calling mint, ubuntu or any other bloated, preconfigured, preinstalled distro "linux" gives an entirely wrong idea. When using distrod like arch you even need to decide which file manager you want, what "image preview" package you want to install, which desktop envirobment or window manager or compositor or display server or audio system and the list just goes on.
@@Mzansi74 That 60 year old is completely helpless due to the fuck you find out on your own attitude of the Linux community. With windows all if have to know how to do something is double click and Google. Not so for Linux. And you people simultaneously want to gatekeep users while spreading the misinformation that it's just as easy to use as Windows or almost as easy which is a blatant objective lie. You can't have your cake and eat it to. Do better buddy.
This video made me subscribe. You made very good points! Personally, I've tried Wayland but I'm not moving over until ALL of the rough patches are fixed. I'm a patient kind of guy. I really don't think we as Linux users should even care if Windows or Mac users ever come over. Let them enjoy what they've got, if they can, as long as I don't have to suffer with it myself. If they want to use Linux, great. If they don't then that doesn't matter to me one little bit. Not everybody can handle the brainwork involved. Funny how people who can't understand Linux get so militant against the people who can.
OpenSUSE seems to be heading into the dumpster with the parent company making some questionable decisions. Debian is just too outdated for desktop use imo. Fedora has the downside that you have to install some proprietary drivers because it ships only with foss ones that often don't work properly. Other than that Fedora is easily the best distro.
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@@michalsvihla1403 just a note: you can install whatever drivers you want, they just don't come with the original install. after that installation you are free to do what you want.
Your point about Wayland needs to support every application that 11 supports is very important. I'll give a really good example: software testing: I test a GUI desktop app for Linux, currently the open source test tool I use only works in X11 not Wayland, so I investigated other open source test tools for testing desktop apps to see which ones work in Wayland, the answer was none, I'd be very interested if anyone is running automated tests for desktop GUI apps in Wayland and what tool they are using? And if the answer is no-one is testing GUI Desktop apps in Wayland well that could well be a bigger problem......
Linux is not a distribution. Linux is not an operating system. Linux is not a drop in replacement for Windows or Mac OS X. Linux is a kernel. That's how and why Google was able to build Android and Chrome OS which don't function like typical distributions - In fact, I'd go as far as to argue that they aren't distributions. Why? Most of the production grade software users consume is proprietary and walled off from the public.
Wayland isn't quite ready yet. i also agree that the developers of Wayland need give app developers more time to adapt and switch over to it. It doesn't matter what OS people use, the fact of the matter is the most of us are creatures of habit and like to use specific programs for specific tasks and this applies to Linux as well. If people can't use certain programs, then they may go back to Windows or MacOS.
The design aspect is definitely a reason as to why people would be put off. Gnome and Cosmic have a consistent and good looking style to them. (Un)fortunately, Linux is made up of programmers and not designers, so there aren't many options beyond it without tinkering with things yourself. I personally find KDE Plasma horribly designed and cluttered while Gnome is easy to read and use.
meanwhile windows has programers and designers and they all work for money so it's alot more stable and supported. i will wait for valve to make a desktop os for now
True. There are hundreds of distros, each with different GUIs. And yet, when I need to do something I can Google a terminal command that works when I copy and paste it on the command line. Try that with Windows. On Windows, there are always TH-cam instructions, but they never have the same sequence of windows and mouse clicks that work on my computer.
If you need to ask which distro to pick. Then the answer should be mint. After that you're mostly competent to chart your own path of the distro rabbit hole.
i'm using both windows and ubuntu each for specific reasons and i'm a developer. but before i even start my IT journey i was simply windows user and i was able to use it with minimal (and close to none) technical knowledge which i for now see its not possible to do when using linux like there really a lot of things that seemed to be typical user activities if i weren`t technical enough i would definitely miss up my system. The thing is Linux "desktop enviorments" need to consider more the idea of build it like if 5 years old would be using it.
@@Hardcore_Remixer fair enough but when people learn about HOW their computer works they tend to take at least a a passing interest in Linux. Most people don’t care how their car works either
@@seanfaherty Part of it is people really hating Windows 11. First time random non technical user ever asked me about using Linux as a daily driver was after Recall was announced and quite a few of my more technically knowledgeable friends (including myself) have switched since 11 came out. Windows 11 finally got me to the point where I'd rather deal with Linux problems than Windows ones (though I do still have a windows box around for some things).
If a newbie asks me which distro is "best", I tell him to watch TH-cam vids about Mint, Kubuntu, and Fedora and see which one he likes best. If he doesn't seem to like that idea, I say the default choice for someone new is Mint. There's also the option of trying a distro out on a thumb drive or an old computer, but a lot of newbies don't want to do that. I also am clear to them to not expect Linux to be just like Windows or Mac. You can customize to make things a lot like Windows or Mac, but it's still never going to be identical.
100% agree with everything you said. We need to fix ppls attitudes not just the software. Its the problem of leadership by the community. Linux is tribal, community splinter off into new tribes when we dont agree. Even Linus has pointed of that this splintering off is a huge issue for the future of linux. Give everyone a voice and you achieve nothing.
There are not too many distros. It is like you are saying that there are too many shoes in a shoe shop. The distros are just choices for the user. You get to choose the one that suits your needs the best. If you are a beginner then choose a beginner friendly distro. If you are an expert and love tinkering then pick and advanced distro. As you grow used to Linux then try another flavor or customize the one you are using. The biggest problem I had was not knowing what the many disros did. As I was an expert Windows user, I thought I was an expert in Linux too. I was not. My problems went away once I accepted that I knew nothing and was willing to learn new methods. Start at the beginning and grow. You do not learn to drive in an F1 car.
@@yahavcohen3678 There is the Linux Kernel, then there are distros. They all do the same thing. That is translate user input so the hardware can work. They also look pretty with things like different browsers and backdrops. They all run the same software. They maybe packaged differently but Linux is Linux. It is clear you don't run Linux and think a distro is like Mac or Windows. Please tell us what specific software only runs on one distro?
@tiomkinnyborg2289 for example DaVinci resolve a few years ago (now not sure) All that compatibility issues fixing is done by distro maintainer, and only for open source programs (for obvious reasons). Most proprietary software is targeting a small set of distros at best. And actually there are a lot of patched versions of Linux, that can cause issues with your favorite app - so developers cannot be sure even that most basic stuff like the kernel, glibc and systemd are present in the system.
@@tomiyoshi The kernel is present in ALL systems or there would be NOTHING. If they wanted a program to run everywhere then make a Flatpak, Appimage or Snap. Propriety software is made to lock people out and most Linux users avoid it. It is only used as a last resort. If a program refuses to run , I'll use something else. It is not the fault of the Distro.
@tiomkinnyborg2289 some distros may easily switch to custom patched kernels, so you never can be sure which set of kernels you should test on. Most of the professional software is proprietary - DaVinci, Intellij (the paid version), the industry specific software i worked on... and while you can often replace it with foss, in most cases they either have less features, awful ux design, being buggy or all of them. There are opposite examples of both sides of course, but in general, I can't replace the software I mentioned with anything open source, even though I tried
I use Wayland mainly and definitely agree on the point of seamlessness. Only a few things don't work right for me such as Discord streaming but there are other ways to do that such as the browser or better apps or even just X11. Ironically my AMD machine with Tumbleweed is stuck on Wayland because X11 kicks me back to the login whereas my CachyOS Nvidia laptop works on either one but Sway and Qtile in particular kick me back to the login on the Wayland sessions. Hyprland works but is glitchy and of course KDE and GNOME work just fine. The Tumbleweed install ran Sway fine on an old 1050 Ti machine with newer drivers. Sway kicked me back to login on Arch on the AMD machine but not on CachyOS and I haven't tried it on the AMD/Tumbleweed combo yet.
The main #1 problem is that PC manufacturers don't sell computers with Linux, they sell them with Windows. Why is Windows so popular? Because it's automatically installed on all computers that people buy. Most people don't know what OS they are using, or what an operating system even is. They have certainly never heard of Linux. Windows isn't better, it's just ubiquitous, and for the vast majority of humans using a computer, the only operating system they know that exists. They are given no choice when people buy a PC. When HP and Lenovo and Dell and all these other OEMs start advertising new computers with Linux on them, the existence of it will go largely unnoticed by the vast majority of people. That's why it's behind.
Anyone who tried linux and came back to Windows knows that this isnt the 1# problem at all. The bigger problem is that linux is by nature un-organized and no one is really responsible for their work, which results in frequent regressions, which leads to people having to mess with configuration all the time to fix things. Avarage PC user will NEVER EVER put up with that. Its a deal breaker. I actually wouldnt be surprised if the reason why manufacturers dont support linux natively wasnt due to bad marketing but because they are aware of the linux mess and dont want to deal with it.
"Most people dont know what OS theyre using, or what an operating system even is" this is one of those things that sounds true at first, but when you think about it its kinda not. The fact is that most regular people, especially the not-super-old crowd, knows what Windows is, knows whar MacOS is, and understands them to be the big 2 choices for computer software. There's a reason why there are a million "if Apple were to make a car, would it have Windows?" jokes. But you are kind of right in that i think your average consumer thinks that apple computers run macos, and everything else runs windows. Hence the confusion when ChromeOs laptops hit store shelves
Inertia; the same thing holding Linux back is the same thing that caused Windows Phone to flopp. Nobody cares about the OS or the company it comes from, they just want to know if the device they bought will run the apps all their friends are using perfectly out of the box and they will settle for whatever OS that came out of the box. Microsoft learned from the failure of Windows Phone; that people have no loyalty to them so they'll practically give away licenses to OEMs for free subsidized by bloatware, adware, telemetry to undercut any OEM like System76 that would offer Linux.
This is...blatantly false. If Linux was on, say 25% of computers in stores, 90% of those would be returned as defective or otherwise not the product that the customer was expecting. The only reason this notion is so prevalent in the Linux community is because of selection bias. The vast majority of the people who can say that they tried it and didn't like it are the ones who aren't in the Linux community, thus very few Linux users realize just how many Windows and Mac users have tried and explicitly disliked using Linux enough to go back.
Something I have enjoyed in my very limited attempt is, I tried Mint, had issues, and then because I had set up /home on a partition, actually figured out how to install Bazzite instead without having to reinstall gigabytes of games. If I knew of other distros to try, it might not even take too long to re-partition the / and /boot sectors to something new. Partitions are a lot simpler than I used to think, but I imagine a lot of people still find them scary and arcane. I only wish installers recommended some size defaults if you’re going to split things up.
I never had a distro that doesnt break with my Thinkpad x230, already tested Arch, Void, openSUSE and Fedora thats why I reverted back to Windows LTSC and setup my desktop complete with the Linux workflow and hotkeys (GlazeWM, Flow Launcher + myDockFinder)
I have 5 distros for new users that I recommend. That is Linux Mint, Fedora and Pop_OS! for new users that wants something easy to install and easy to use. For power user or more advanced users I would recommend Debian or Arch. So that is Linux Mint, Fedora, Pop_OS!, Debian and Arch. I personally use Arch and prefer it over all of the ones I have tried.
I found a few distros actually fitting the need for a low froction experience. Mint and Fedora. All other so far needed extensive setup and or maintenance with either technical knowledge or hours of forum diving.
The Linux community thinks the only thing it needs to beat Windows is to copy the start menu and have a web browser. I take back everything bad I said about Windows. It is and will remain the most user friendly OS. You can thank the Linux community for that. I now see the Linux community has ZERO self awareness and that's not something you can turn on. I feel like such an idiot even trying. Doesn't matter what they put in Windows I will never force myself to be around these NPCs.
Thanks for sticking your neck out. If every Linux user accepted there were problems and that there should be at least one distro where user experience as opposed to tribalism was paramount, Linux might be a viable Windows replacement. I daily drove Linux for several years but gave up for the sake of my sanity.
I mean, sometimes, when it gets to it. Mostly because Windows is an avalanche of menus on top of menus and Mac is locked down beyond belief. But for the average user, they shouldn't need one.
@@gruntaxeman3740depends on understanding of setup. If writing .iso on flash drive (with first party tool, btw, aka MCT), booting into BIOS, loading said flash drive -> clicking "Install" -> i don't have a key of product on hand -> wipe drive -> partition drive -> Install System and waiting for it to install and reboot is hard, then i don't think you could argue that it would've been easier for them to properly setup Linux from scratch. Because process would've been basically exactly same (with additional questions like "what is file system and which one should i select?"), if not slightly more problematic due to Secure Boot, GRUB and often needing third-party tool to flash .iso to your flash drive.
@@DimkaTsv Any setup. People don't know how to setup machines, not even with factory images because they need some cloud accounts and connect those, testing that cloud authentication works and also connect machine to router, email working on email app, browser bookmarks and software upgrades after installation. And of course migrate data from backups. If OS is installed without factory images, there is then also partitioning and possible to add drivers that are not ready on installation image. And if computer is not brand new, need to test memory and hard drives that thay are not broken. People who use mostly macOS and Windows are all beginners, they need help on computer setup. By default they lack basic IT-skills.
I really appreciate your approach to this. You listed some genuine issues without hyperbolizing them and without digging into the politics of them. Though that said, as another comment mentioned, most people recommend Pop_OS or Mint, and as another said, the look of those distros drives people away. So I would say the issue isn't having good "beginning friendly" distros, its that a lot of current Linux users bailed during the Windows 10 era and think Windows 7 was the Be All and End All. This, then, ties into your point about aesthetic mattering, as a lot of ex-Windows users (myself included) *LOVE* KDE Plasma for its sleek, very modern aesthetic.
I have zero hope for Linux being anything more than a micro-niche. It will never be widely used because open-source software is complicated. Also, democracy sucks! Unless you have one person in charge of everything guiding the project toward a tangible goal, everything is just bickering and fighting and tribalism. Also, Linux is on borrowed time. When Linus retires the kernel is going to be in the hands of the Linux Foundation, which doesn't really care about Linux at all, so the kernel will fracture. Maybe then one determined group will be able to take the reigns with a popular fork and build a cohesive desktop offering, but I won't hold my breath. Ubuntu, Mint, Pop are the only beginner-friendly offerings that can be used out-of-the-box for basics like office work, and as long as Windows retains majority market share, Linux will never be good for gaming.
ikr lol. Once I said this problem out like, the average common user ABSOLUTELY NEED GUI. They need buttons and directions of what they can do. They don't wanna stare into a black void of blank not knowing what to do and having to look up commands on internet to memorize. And then some Loonixtrd replied 'skill issue lol' -- that's when I know and realize 'haha yeah, no wonder Linux keeps staying a hobby-only option for the tech savvy and will never reach the mass of common people'.
To my understanding, a lot of the community infighting is made to look a lot worse than it actually is. Yes its not good for Linux's reputation, but most Linux users are in solidarity of just hating Windows and letting the distro you choose be an afterthought, if even that. The people who infight are in my understanding a vocal minority.
I refuse to use linux regardless of how better it is than windows/ios. It's not intuitive whatsoever and looking for answers takes ages. If installing each game/hardware will take hours of my free time it's simply not worth it. Not mentioning the amount of stuff that's straight up not supported at all.
Yep, I'm a passionate gamer, and until at least some of the Linux distros have 100% fixed gaming compatibility, I'd never use it, since I love playing and heavily modding all sorts of games. (200 in my Steam library alone) From what I've heard, Linux has gotten better with games in the last years, but is still FAR away from Win10/11 as an OS. Until I can run games flawlessly on my 4090 rig it is simply not an option. I hope Linux will get there eventually, of course. Then I'd reconsider.
The games that are not supported are mostly because their parent companies refuse to add Linux support. Please stop blaming Linux distros for this issue. GTA V is a great example, as it used to run fine on Linux systems, through Proton, but then Rockstar decided to add anticheat to multiplayer. Then they blamed Valve for not supporting Linux, while Rockstar just had to enable Linux support for their anticheat. Regarding game modding, depending on what games you play, you may be in luck. I have successfully played modded Elden Ring and Outer Wilds on Linux.
a user friendly distro is actually better for the user (in my experience at least) and had generally more hardware compat. however windows software doesnt run on linux either because it uses the windiws kernel (kernel anticheat) or because of explicit chrcka if it is running under linux. there is no technical reason (innthe general case) for whitch an app wouldnt run. this however doesnt change the fact those bad actor apps wont run. this can be changed only if such developers were put under pressure by just using linux, akak increasing its stake. maybe ggive linux another shot, id recommend mint or kubuntu
the asthetic one kinda got me. I am still searching for a file manager that looks modern (like for ex. nautilus), but actually frickin works (unlike nautilus, for some reason it always moves files, no matter if i hold ctrl or not). For the last 2 years. Nothing found yet.
Another thing that affects the use of Linux is that there are very few computers available that have a distribution of Linux preinstalled on them. To a large extent a person has to take an X86 computer running a version of Microsoft Windows. Then partition the storage drive and then go through the process of installing a distribution of linux on the new partition. Also the person needs to set up a dual boot software that allows them to either choose Microsoft Windows or Linux.
poor Linux people thinking that there is a chance for linux ..listen !! don't lie to people ..as long as the users can not do 99% of the tasks in GUI then do not talk about linux or the year of linux or any of that wishiwashi wishful thinking bullshit
You mean like having to edit samba.conf by hand just to share your Public folder? And heaven forbid you want to set up a VNC server. Those examples are from Mint by the way. Cinnamon is very usable.
Ikr lol. Once I said this problem out like, the average common user ABSOLUTELY NEED GUI. They need buttons and directions of what they can do. They don't wanna stare into a black void of blank not knowing what to do and having to look up commands on internet to memorize. And then some Loonixtrd replied 'skill issue lol' -- that's when I know and realize 'haha yeah, no wonder Linux keeps staying a hobby-only option for the tech savvy and will never reach the mass of common people'.
The mere existence of a GUI isn't nearly enough, it needs to be good. GUIson Linux are notoriously inconsistent in quality and structure alike, making the console the 'best' choice simply because the alternative is garbage.
I've always felt the same way with the sheer number of distros. The community needs to pick a handful of distros to get behind. As many other commenters have suggested, Mint (non-Ubuntu) is an excellent choice. I chose Debian with KDE running on X11. (I need Wayland to support screensavers.)
I vehemently disagree with mint being great for a first time user. It looks ugly and ancient and has no feel of either novelty or sophistication. For a novice/ casual-esque user it looks you're "pulling him back", instead of "pushing him forward". Ever since the introduction of LibAdwaita I find GNOME a much better introduction to the world of Linux. It manages to impress both Windows and MacOS users due to its clean, elegant aesthetics. And above all, *IRL I have managed to positively impress a number of people just by showing them GNOME.* As an ardent supporter of Linux and Foss this is very important. Also, if you're interested in spreading the word until "the year of the Linux Desktop" becomes a reality, do not be lead astray by the self-referential echo chamber of the Linux community. What the FOSS community thinks, perceives or feels often amounts to a projection of a projection, and is often out-of-touch with the impetuses of "normal consumers" (aka "normies").
In my experience it is simply due to Linux distros not including and fully integrating things, such as Wine, which are required to run the majority of programs. Moreover, not having the latest versions of apps available on their package managers is befuddling to any new Linux user.
Imho, if a user needs to use wine to run the majority of the programs they use (meaning the linux alternatives don't do what they need), maybe switching to linux isn't the best idea anyway. Linux isn't Windows, and if big software companies don't port to linux, wine is just a crutch that won't be as solid as users would need it to be. But it's a vicious circle : if people don't switch to linux, its userbase won't grow, thus big companies will keep ignoring it, thus their apps aren't on linux, thus people don't switch to linux... and so on.
![PC Master Race Explained in 9 minutes [Animated]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/RRY1jrIDhvU/mqdefault.jpg)
Honestly the community consensus has arrived at mint being the best for new user and if you ever look at thread recommending distros for new users its 95% mint and PopOS
good thing its not ubuntu
Exactly, mint for absolute beginners and popos if you have a nvidia gpu.
@@nothpx i second that, was a pain in the butt to get fully up and running for myself
@@urncjd i use arch btw
I would like to add Zorin to the mix
Linux users constantly tell people that they just need to learn how to tinker with it and try out new distros. No. I really don’t need to do this. My computer needs to run games, and mass market programs with ZERO tinkering on my part. Any tinkering and problem solving needs to come AFTER that. I like computers, I like tinkering. But computers are a *tool* first. Any troubleshooting and diving down how to forums to accomplish simple tasks means it has failed as a tool. The customization and option to tinker must be there *after* it is stable and compatible with as much hardware and software as possible.
Problem is either you get a stable distro, or to get the newest kernel (with more hardware support).
What I think we need is really good tutorials on how to fix your wifi, graphics cards and printer, and guide on just the necessary commands to use the terminal in order to install new stuff
This. Absolutely this. Any time the expectation of stuff to actually work gets brought up, the Linux community rushes in to claim that it's not a problem on Linux, it's more of a problem on Windows and Mac, and thay you're evil for having expected your computer to function properly.
The Linux community as a whole seems to be so far outside of the realm of regular users that the very idea of sitting down at the computer, installing a program, and then using it for an hour without configuring or customizing anything and without needing to look at some technical manual to make it function is seemingly completely foreign.
@@escthedark3709 Ok but this is flat out missinformation. When you get past the problems with wifi, graphics and printers (which, let's be honnest, is at least worse on Windows), most things just work, sometimes better than on Windows or Mac.
I'm one of those dirty Ubuntu users, who use most things with minimal customization, and things just work. And for the rares cases where they don't, they don't half work (like most things on Windows which crash for no reason), they straight up don't work, often because I try to do something niche, and when I find a fix, it fixes several things in that niche.
I'm serious when I say Linux is extremely stable when you don't try to do things that would not even be possible on Windows or Mac in the first place. And when you try to tinker, it has an actually decent chance to stay stable, which is plenty more than you can expect when you're a tinkerer
@@sophiatrocentraisin Having tried Ubuntu, Mint, and Arch, I think that we have extremely different definitions of "just work", or rather, you're correct but only because you're not new to Linux. Linux only tends to "just work" if you know exactly what you're doing and don't get confused at any point.
For example, KDE's Dolphin file manager refuses to function out of the box because it refuses to manage files that require it to be run as sudo, it doesn't tell you that it needs to be run as sudo, and it isn't capable of being run as sudo on a fresh install. If you're familiar with Linux, it's literally a thirty second fix. If you're not, well it took me two days to figure out what the problem was and how to fix it. This is a recurring theme with any distro I've tried (granted it's been a good 5 years since I tried Mint), where problems with simple two minute solutions take hours or days to solve simply because Linux demands the user to be extremely knowledgeable about how it works. If you're not knowledgeable, you're left almost completely in the dark about how to fix even the most basic of issues.
@@sophiatrocentraisinno these things should just always work tutorials should only have to exist as you go beyond basic usage.
I'm actually amazed at how many commenters don't understand tbe problem. All of you are genuinely trying to be helpful, but the advice only shows how far Linux is from becoming a mainstream OS for regular people.
For a regular user a computer is not meant to be tinkered with. They want a system that "just works". To them, the choice of downloading an app for win10 or win11 is complex and confusing. They don't want to know what a "gnome" or a "kde" is, they just want to run OfficeProgram 23 - oh, and if their 19 year old printer just works by plugging it in, that'd be swell.
To convert these users, Linux needs a single default setup that runs every common app without manual configuration or dependencies. Every common configuration they do need should be easily found just a few mouseclicks away. Basically, all the UX that MS is making worse in each update to Windows.
Only after all of those things exist in an easy 1-click install distro will the average computer user even listen when you talk about all the real strengths of Linux. This is the view of someone who has worked in win/mac environments since the 90s, while wishing Linux could overtake Windows for just as long.
Most linux users only see feasibility, while normal people want practicality.
@@dwight3555 This. "X can be done on Linux too" is something I see all of the time from the Linux community, but many people walk away from Linux extremely bitter due to the unreasonable expectations built up by Linux evangelists. "Technically possible" and "practical" are two completely different things for most people, yet the Linux community generally seems to think that they're equivalent.
I was a windows user / fan. dabbled with linux but always came back to windows when i needed to get some work done. Since 1 month ago, a linux os is now my powering my daily driver and I am not intending to go back any time soon. what happened?. In a nutshell, end of windows 10 support. For the first time I was not happy with Microsoft, windows 11 would mean replacing perfectly good hardware and the final straw was "Recall". A little research and Linux mint 22 was installed. It just worked out of the box, all hardware detected and all the software I use was either available as a native linux application or a good alternative worked out just fine, one minor issue was a network monitoring tool i need but wine solved that, i am not a gamer or a video editor just an average general user. My advice to millions of windows users that are in the same position I was, if your not a gamer or tied into adobe products then i believe Linux mint 22 is ready for mainstream adoption by pissed off windows users. Sorry bill, its been a great ride, I thank you , wish you all the best, its just time for me to move on.
Because its greatest strength is one of its major weaknesses; lack of standardization. Neckbeards cannot agree on what is the best of the best for the widest audience.
that is because they're too stupid to understand they don't matter.
Standards are great. That's why there are so many of them.
There ought to be a reference distro, not something to be used as a daily driver, but something which represents the core requirements which must be extended to any distro.
But we do have that, we just have a bunch of reference distros, and I don't see how to bridge that gap. For instance, there's never going to be an agreement over which package manager the distro uses. For a while, when the number of major distros was small, it was easier to say you were running Slackware, or Redhat, etc. If you had a child distro based on Debian, maybe that should be the "name" of the distro and not "Rockstar Porcupine." Think of this like how OEM machines which ship Windows might have different bundles and bloat pre installed.
I'd also argue that every child distro should have a minimum reference distro configuration which would be the same in every child distro as a license requirement. There needs to be something which drives some homogeneity; gas is the pedal on the right, the brake is on the left, and every driver sits on the right and drives on the right side of the road...
People writing drivers can relate.
@@SeanCC no standards are bad, what suits for one couldn't suit for another
i HATE when people tell me "hop on fortnite, hop on valorant" when they find out i use linux.
It must be fun to be as antisocial as you
Online gaming can go screw themselves.
is harder to cheat on Linux as the tools need to be full supported to the system you using
Windows used old programs which linux was not able to do unless is uses the code that not changed when is switched
More Devs on Windows for hacking the games with their Cheats
because they got the highest rate of users using it
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Less Devs on Linux has it harder to find out why is not working
because the anti-cheat can't run in wine or the server think is hacking system
statcounter said is ( 73.31% ) - for Windows
4.5% for Linux
even if Chromebook was to be good for that title they need to still deal with Sharing the love to ( free source's users )
valorant - can't even will work with it has it
by their anti-cheat i think i know why they call it Vanguard replace guard with kidnapper and your see why they use ( van for the start from their anti-cheat
Hint if it want you to sign an TOS void it because is not worth being with a anti-cheat that sound like a kidnapper was in control would you
( Hint Void PC kernel-level driver as it maybe an Keylogger or Exploiter to share info ( if they never say which info shared are you sure is not the account details )
KVM : bet
@@hyperlit1989bruh
_Edited for grammatical blunders._
The big issue I see is that basically everyone developing linux software (desktop environments in particular) can’t seem to understand what user friendly means. Basically any DE for Linux is plagued with technicalities that are great for insane customization but it can be extremely technical, and sometimes it's not packaged well or organized intuitively, imho. The vast majority on Linux currently seem to favor customization and technicality rather than ease of use and simplicity.
It doesn’t help that there’s so many visually broken programs , especially duplicates that are sometimes incompatible and redundant variations or forked clones.
Yes. I need to get work done. "KDE is so customizable!" They say.
I don't care. I need to switch the mouse to left hand and get to work. I don't care to spend an hour diddling with arcane and hidden desktop settings first.
@@mikespangler98 then, don't? at least the option is there
Cinnamon is really good, what's the issue?
That's the weakness of Open-Source in general, not just a Linux thing. User-friendly in the context of open source means "can the devs use it?"
It often seems the programmers develop their version for themselves and when others say we want something more usable for regular users it's like asking for the impossible. And saying you can just change the code and recompile is really not an a proper reply to the regular user out there.
None of the most recommended distros are KDE and everytime I recommend something to someone new, they always hate how "outdated" mint looks or how "macOS" gnome looks or how "empty of features" it is. They end up loving linux only when they try out something KDE based. It really stresses me out how the whole linux distros thing is so focused on gnome, while most new ex-windows users absolutely hate gnome.
I myself use KDE and I recommend Kubuntu to beginners
@@NotALizard_really I use Fedora KDE and its just amazing, will never go back to Gnome as a daily driver
I'm an old former Windows user, and I can't stand Gnome. I left the main Ubuntu when they went to Gnome, I had stuck with it from 6.06 to 14.04, but Unity 8 and Gnome were too much.
@javabeanz8549 i can assure you that like you, there are millions of others. Windows is the most used desktop OS on the planet, and most windows users use windows because they don't like mac. Many windows laptops are much more expensive than macs and most people still buy windows. So why would they like a gnome desktop? They don't. We need more KDE focused distros. The best we have for ease of use is Kubuntu and Nobara KDE, but both of those are pretty advanced anyway. Nobara has a pretty weird update system and can break itself since for some unknown reason they don't use the KDE native updates. Kubuntu has the snaps problem and many other ubuntu BS like very outdated wine and drivers. Still, those are two of the only distros we can recommend new users, and both of them are far from perfect. However, Kubuntu is, in my opinion, lightyears ahead a better recommendation for an ex-Windows user than any other gnome distro.
STOP RECOMMENDING GNOME/GTK DEs TO EX WINDOWS USERS
(This is for those 99.9% of youtubers and linux users that recommend Mint or PopOS to everyone and their dog)
Kde is sooooo busy and technical man. Not a beginner DE at all.
Linux Mint is currently the one I recommend for anyone who wants to migrate.
It's stable, has a great OOB experience, and is easy to use.
No. Zorin by a mile. The community will make switchers Way more comfortable. Linux Mint people have an old 2005 Linux mentality which causes people to Run.
Yeah, but once people migrate to it, it'll become junk because it'll either be taken over by someone with a big ego or its existing caretakers will become dictatorial in response to the sudden popularity. The GNU/Linux community is obsessed with ostracism like they're an HOA. They'll never make a good product because any time anyone is on the right path, it'll get taken over by mentally ill people who covet the power over others more than the actual project.
but Linux Mint sucks for development
@@Nobody-eg4bi if you're a dev, none of this should apply to you
@@DivergentDroid I just switched from regular Linux Mint to the directly Debian-based version, and it immediately improved performance and fixed a few weird little issues I was having using the regular version. I'm new to this stuff, but Zorin seems to be strictly Ubuntu-based, and cutting out that Ubuntu middleman appears to have some benefits, like some ppl have been saying.
normal people NEVER want to see a terminal window, piece of script, etc. NEVER.
True.
Yeah, but once anyone get used to it. They going to love it more than the constantly changing GUI, sometimes.
@@Account.for.CommentSounds like "Pegging feels good once you get used to it"
you can use gnome without seeing it ever.
fedora silverblue i think is the best option.
its clean, barebone like a new mac, and uses flatpaks.
so a good experience for everyone.
This is exactly why I’m looking at Linux Mint as the distro I want to use. It feels like it’s made for everyday people.
*A list of real reasons:*
1) Too little / insufficient / poor marketing. - The term ‘Linux’ is off-putting for many, if they know it at all.
2) An overwhelming variety of distributions, desktop environments, options for installing software, etc. - Even if you are willing to overcome these hurdles and familiarise yourself with the "ecosystem", you cannot ‘just like that’ switch to something else, as Linux is basically incompatible with itself.
3) Inadequate and inaccessible user interface / design. - Even the supposedly user-friendly distributions struggle with this and, in the worst case, require their users to use the command line for regular tasks.
4) The toxic and supposedly elitist Linux ‘community’.
5) The lack of (commercial) software and poor support for current or new hardware.
6) The lack of sensible / well-thought-out defaults.
7) Lack of / insufficient backward compatibility.
8) Insufficient / unfocused project management
*Conclusion:*
While Apple and Microsoft have been getting closer and closer to fulfilling the promise of ‘it just works’ with every iteration for decades, Linux is still struggling with the basics. - As long as the Linux ‘community’ does not (want to) realise that nobody is waiting for them, nothing will change.
Using Linux as a main OS is basically like using an Old-Timer as a daily driver. You spend more time servicing and maintaining your device than actually driving it. - Setting up and running a Hackintosh as a daily driver is also a fitting metaphor.
*A possible way out:*
If there's anyone who can save desktop Linux, it's Valve. They have the resources, power, know-how and most importantly the WILL to actually make desktop Linux a thing. - Linus Torvalds thinks so too, by the way.
@@UmVtCg How can you be so sure when none of us even know exactly what killer features Steam OS for Desktop will offer?
Just like any other Linux distro, I would boot this one live and try it out first.
@@Chuck_vs._The_Comment_Section I can answer that for you. SteamOS sucks just as much as many distro. Steam Deck is literally better with Windows.
Great comment. I would add a 9, accessibility and compatibility with assistive tech. I think if anything can bring Linux into worthwhile institutions, it's accessibility. It's a joke that Linux is so far behind in that regard.
@@UmVtCg you already can...it's called ChimeraOS :pp but idk I daily drive debian on all my laptops but for my gaming PC I've gotten chimeraOS on it and it's been fine.
@@JUPAC22 What is “assistive tech”? (English is not my native language.)
Wayland is about to finish HDR Color management, Session Restore and VRR timing protocols this year.
Edit: 1 protocols just got completed
HDR color management already seems perfect to me... They're still doing work on it? o_.
Btw, my mind was blown when Linux HDR is unironically better than Windows HDR. xD
@@MyouKyuubi If you're running new KDE, I know they've been working on that for a while.
@@haplozetetic9519 Yeah i think i am, i run nobara 40 i think, that should run the latest KDE, right?
@@haplozetetic9519 KDE Plasma, not KDE.
@@jyothishkumar3098and this here is why Linux is for idiots. Smarty-pants semantic disputes that no one but said idiots care about.
I recently switched to Linux and when i tell people this they have no idea what i'm talking about. The average person has never heard of it and has no idea an alternative to Windows exists. When i explain what Linux is as an OS and as Open source they love the idea and want to know more. Showing them Linux and what it's available software can do gets them on board even. So Linux sells itself, once people know it exist and see it on action. The problem is that we don't have a billion dollar company spending billions to advertise it to the masses. Obviously free, open source software can't spend billions on advertising but the community does somehow need to get the word out to the masses better.
Well that's where something like the Steamdeck comes in. Hell that's where Chrome OS started too. Both are MASSIVE Corps. Chrome OS is TOO locked down.
Steamdeck has some of it's own issues, but certainly helped with Gaming a LOT!
@@TheAyanamiRei Curiously, ChromeOS is based on Gentoo 😂
I love the idea of Linux too, but the execution is absolute garbage when compared to alternatives. It comes across as almost deliberately jank at times, which isn't even entirely untrue.
Having grown up with Windows, switching to Mac was slightly awkward for a bit before becoming tolerable in a day or two. Having tried switching to Ubuntu, Mint Cinnamon, and Arch, none of them stopped being a pain to do things even after weeks of trying to get used to it. It's not even the console, it's the horridly inconsistent ways you have to interact with programs that causes every little unexplored facet of using Linux to rapidly deteriorate into fighting against poor or inconsistent design choices.
Discard all the other takes, this is the correct one. As a recent adoptee of Linux. I don't know why so many Linux vets treat us newcomers like we are complete noobs when it comes to everything and we could just never possibly understand Linux. No, it's really not that difficult, guys lol. The issue is MARKETING, and that Linux has a bad reputation which is in part thanks to the "Linux is too complex" crowd.
i do not think advertisements would do the trick. for many people it is that they will use what they know from work. At work people will ether have Windows or Mac, because companys need support for the OS, and a Forum will not be enough. So what is needed would be a Linux distro that has a company behind it doing the support. Kinda like RHEL for servers but as a Desktop distro.
Few years later this video will be noted as "Reasons why Linux desktop is STILL not competitive against Win/Mac" as I can see exactly 0 of them actually beeing realized. I'm absolutely with you on those problems and I am telling those exact (wayland excluded) reasons why I don't use Linux desktop (I have no issue using linux as my server) to my Linux friends for more then 15 years, the problem is that they see those problems as strengths of linux.
Windows has become such a mess, I'm glad I left it in 2017 and never used it again.
@@johanb.7869 I use Windows and have zero issues, everything runs great.
I wish desktop linux had a better experience for new users - even though I wouldn't benefit directly, I would most likely benefit indirectly as the greater market share leads to more and (in the case of some proprietary stuff like discord) better software being available. Discord outside of Windows is garbage; I wouldn't use it at all if it weren't the primary discussion platform for the online communities I'm involved with.
the problem with the outdated looking apps are 2: 1) most of them are simply just old. 2) there are way more programmers working on linux than UI/UX designers, that makes so the old looking apps not get the appropriate visual updates in a timely manner
I don't really see why an "old" appearance is a problem. If the UI works, who cares what it looks like? Well, I guess people do care, 'cuz they complain about the antique look.
@baruchben-david4196 most commonly used systems have modernized their UI/UX with a different workflow from apps of old, people are used to it now, or the new generation who grew up with the new UI/UX and simply doesn't know how the old one works.
Yeah.. indeed. Usually the old looking app just works and is fast and the new flashy is more complicated to use it lags and works slower..
The shattered Linux community is probably the worst thing here, since in reality there's no perfect distro. If we want the Linux market share to grow, we need to stop acting like kids on a sandbox. We need to focus on the important things. For example some promotion, which will say to other people: "Linux is dead simple to use, it's rock solid and you can often daily-drive it even better than Windows."
Cmon, how easy is just to install RTX4000 GPU in linux with all the features you have in windows? And without touching terminal? On windows... download .exe, click install, next, next, next, done. Lot of people have HDR monitors. Does HDR works in linux? This is just daily driving, nothing extra
It's like a chicken and egg problem. Distros that suit newcomers do not get enough attention from experienced users for improvements, as experienced users tend to prefer more customizable distros. I feel guilty of that. I would like to help improveme Mint for new users, but Arch with tiling is a better fit for my needs. So, it's hard for me to daily drive Mint and understand areas of improvements.
@@dimitrioskoulartsas6184 I mean if you want to contribute, but it still needs a few features for you, you could always contribute as such that you create those features as extension. Have you tried the Cinnamon GTile extension, though? Maybe that fits your needs.
If you think this "shattered community" will ever agree on anything...GL
you actually described the biggest problem with foss. Either the devs are volunteer and focus on things they are interested or money comes from donations. And biggest money comes from enterprises. And as enterprises uses linux in servers mainly, the focus in development is in server environment. The same probelm can be seen in smaller scale all over the foss projects. @@dimitrioskoulartsas6184
Most of those problems are just marketing: fragmentation is just resolved if we just see linux as 3 branches Debian lts, fedora stable and arch beta; gatekeeping is just linux users that don't understand the average person using macos/windows and pretend that a gui is not essential for userfriendliness; outdated design is caused by linux having amazing developers but 0 designers
EDIT. To be clear DE are good enough in my opinion especially the major ones(KDE, GNOME, CINNAMON and BUGIE in particular) what am I referring to bad design is in the app themselves with overly complicated UI(gimp for example), and the fact that apps do not conform to the desktop customisation a lot of times(especially if you are on a general package)
yeah i can make softuwere but i am shit at disign i just cant
True, but I think there are some great desktops on Linux, like Plasma, Gnome, Cinnamon, and XFCE.
Zorin os
The fact that gimp is in fucking black and white is all you need to know how absolute garbage it's design is.
Pretty much. I tried fedora. Tried garuda. Ubuntu, and mint. I'm sticking to mint Because it's easy to use and functions much like windows.
When it comes to Wayland, it's been really rough in terms of progress. I love how pretty and effortless it feels at times, but there's still a lot of work that needs to be done before it gets usable. I myself got fed-up with it because I had to fight it to do basic-ish things I'd normally do all the time on X11 (most of which involved using my screen tablet for drawing).
Luckily Valve decided to swoop-in and take matters into their own hands, but for now I'm just going to wait until enough progress is made before switching back to Wayland again. Wayland is the future, but even after 15 years it's still not ready, and X11's mummified corpse still has to be dragged around a whole bunch.
We still need that corpse tho... 😥
@@MyouKyuubi
Yes, but only because nothing has superseded it yet.
When Wayland is finally on the level of X11 in terms of usability, you're gonna see all the popular FOSS things switch over like a pre-teen who found their dream-job while working at McDonalds.
And for the rest there's XWayland which still uses X11, but in a more secured way. And for the few that don't work, then yeah, you can still use plain X11 until it's no longer supported.
TLDR; the only reason we still need X11 is because Wayland is still undercooked.
@@thepuzzlemaster64 I use Nobara, isn't that a wayland distro?
Seems to work fine-ish to me, few non-breaking bugs, like certain windows don't remember their positions, but otherwise it works fine. :o
@@MyouKyuubi
Wayland is not good if you're using a screen-tablet to draw.
On Debian there's no good Wayland equivalent app that allows you to remap keys on my tablet because they keep screwing-up the stylus, so I have to use udev to do it manually.
Krita's little dockers start glitching-out whenever I try to move them to my main monitor (I use one to preview the full drawing so I don't have to constantly zoom in and out)
On top of that Wayland doesn't automatically reconnect my tablet when I power it off and on, or when my PC goes into sleep mode forcing me to remove the display cable and re-inserting it (doing it any other way doesn't work).
Lastly, turning-off my laptop's screen screws-up my stylus calibration, even if I told it to look for my tablet's name in Wayfire's config file. All of these things are things that I do on X11, and it works just fine there.
All and all, Wayland is just not ready for me. As soon as Wayland can replicate my X11 workflow then I'll switch-over.
@@thepuzzlemaster64 fair enough
Or maybe I want something that works out of the box, has great printer support, has all the software I need, can support more than one monitor flawlessly and gets 95% of the job I need to do done?
Many native and evidently useful things on Windows not being on Linux is also a big issue. I installed cinnamon on a computer to test, and I realized you could not just right-click on something to create a shortcut, no no no, you have to press 3 keys at the same time, just so some obese incel can say "look mom, I'm not using the mouse on my computer!".
Windows forces you to remove useless shit from your computer that should never be there. Linux forces you to add useful things to your computer that should be there by default. Removing things on Windows is infinitely easier than lurking obscure forums for hundreds of hours to get a decent working distro. I'm especially disappointed by cinnamon being heralded as "Oh it's basically all the good sides of Windows and looks very much like it, without all the bloatware!" that was a lie, it's not too hard to install (even if tutorials all around absolutely suck at explaining it) but things like the shortcut issue are just not worth bothering with.
People are accustomed to Windows' quality of life basic options, as long as Linuxers refuse to give us this, it will remain the better option to stay on Windows no matter how much bloatware has to be removed.
Another issue: this is the first video I watch from your channel, and despite having already installed a distro AND having to use a bit of Linux when I was in university, I have no idea what KDE is, what Wayland is or what those issues are. I don't know what gnome is, I don't know what makes ubuntu ubuntu, what exactly is debian and all this stuff. Normal people are intimidated when you hit them with 15 different words of incomprehensible jargon and it's one of the big reasons why they don't bother with linux.
If you speak about Linux to anyone who is not a full on neckbeard, you need to be extremely detailed and clear and not bash people over the head with alien unexplained jargon.
**PIN THIS COMMENT***
@@johnsmith-xw7hv I get the same "make it simple" issue with solutions to other issues, like Whoogle for example, which I cannot install without creating an account on some random website I have never heard of before. Give me a .exe or don't bother. I use Luxxle, and it's generally good, but why isn't there a simple function to block specific websites from appearing?
It's what I find maddening, so many people are ready to do all the hard work, and then they refuse to do the stupid easy bare minimum to add QoL people expect and deserve. Users don't care about feasibility, they care about practicality. Don't just make something that is feasible to use, make something that is more practical to use.
If you don't know about then you just don't know how computers work, and just need to learn a little bit about computers, which will naturally involve months of learning stuff that's completely irrelevant outside of Linux distros.
I think we can't overlook the fact that unlike when I got into Linux in 96, Windows doesnt crash down to bare metal every 30 minutes anymore, its not as bulletproof as Linux, but most desktop users dont need that. That fact coupled with the fact that Windows is pre installed on most hardware the consumer is going to buy means that unless they are aware there are options, they won't even look.
My own experience: too many distros are confusing for new users, even when you end up with Mint you have 3 options to choose from and the differences at the point in your linux journey are difficult to understand. UI/UX designers are underrated by developers (imho) , after a couple of years on mint I bought a tuxedo laptop and it just works, I've never had any hardware issues. It just works, I feel in control, and linux has made me fall back in love with computers.
One of the biggest reasons that most mainstream operating systems have the marketshare they do, is simply because they come preinstalled on new computers. Where as for Linux, you have to go out of your way and download off the distros website a copy, etch it to a USB using a 3rd party tool like Rufus to balena etcher. Then install it by entering the bios. For normal users, it’s all too much. If Linux distros came on computers out the box, all new users would have to do is input their name, password and internet password. And that’s one of the big reasons google chrome OS became so massive. And it’s based off linux. The next best things would be to sell at big box retail stores, pre formatted install USBs that if you plug them into a windows PC, it would install the distro like you were doing a software update or upgrade from windows 10-11 where you don’t have to think about anything.
Exactly!! A lot of the comments here (and yes, the video itself) state that the overwhelming choice in distributions is why Linux is stagnating, but I think that's really only stopping people from /switching/. Switching to Linux on an existing machine is /significantly/ more difficult than just buying a device with a distribution pre-installed. The existence of a king distribution won't cause Linux to get hundreds of millions more users; it would only help the odd individual who's opted to convert a computer over to Linux.
Two clarifications: 1. The existence of a king distribution /might/ help adoption from PC manufacturers, though I get the feeling they'd still want to fork it 2. I'm not sure about the whole automatic install idea, since partitioning work is still too complicated for most
Not just Chrome OS, let's not forget what Valve & Steamdeck have done for Gamers with Linux! Yet even THERE it does NOT support everything sadly.
@@TheAyanamiRei mind you, that is only a recent product and only one single device with a specific use case of playing games on the go. Windows and chrome os have their marketshare by having multiple OEM manufacturers having it installed via a license on their machines. And being on traditional computer form factors helps it be used for more than just gaming.
1. for like 70% of distros you don't have to enter the bios at all to install it, the boot menu is not the bios. (there are a handful that despise secure boot which would require you to enter the bios, that's besides the point tho
2. like 90% of distros you boot the drive after writing it, and it's no joke as easy to install as windows, you're just on the desktop environment by default and go through a GUI application where you select your drive, if you want encryption, yatta yatta, then click install and wait. Once the system reboots you have linux.
I personally hate it when people like you make it seem more difficult than it is, the only time I've ever had to A enter the bios or B have actual background knowledge in technology to install a linux os is whenever Ubuntu doesn't like secure boot or I'm building my own arch build from scratch, which is not a beginner project so it is a null point here anyway. Please actually use more distros if you're gonna complain about it being hard.
@@zoox3732 it literally isn't, at least use the software you're talking about if you're gonna complain about it
The huge problem with those RTFM gatekeepers and often overall tech people is that they just can't comprehend the basic concept of ergonomics.
If you would have to read the manual for every single thing you get - you'll probably go insane within couple of days. Cause no kettel or a microwave would make you read the manual cause if you don't and you suddenly push that button for exactly 2.42 seconds - it would fuckin explode. It's all made maximum fool-proof and intuitive.
And if you produce a car and that car makes hundreds of crashes, most likely your car is shit, not the drivers who should have go for F1 driving license to handle your masterpiece.
You need to come out into the real world a bit more my friend, i work for an IT company filled with highly educated people, they cant even figure out how the dishwasher works. The dishwasher is used for cups and glass mugs, all the cool kids can only figure out how to start the program on the dishwasher that takes 4 hours and 30min, where as the manual states that you should be using the 21min program for this task... But then again higher educated people must know best right ?
Morale is, smarter people RTFM, the other segment stays in their kruger donniger loop forever.
I would be happy if there was a universal binary that I could install on Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora, Arch or any other without breaking the system and running in native speed.
I've heard that's where flatpaks and app images come into play. Haven't used them much myself, but I'm shocked more apps don't have them as alternative download options. It could even work for paid and proprietary apps as well.
That's called Flatpak. Or appimage if you really like duplication.
Just chose the binary for what you are running, how hard is that? Or use the software store for older stable versions of the software. The choice there is between system, flatoak or snap. They all work the same in the end.
@@tiomkinnyborg2289 it’s not hard for you. User experience 101: Users are stupid
This. I agree, like just a package that containerizes and automatically integrates, this can be possible with distrobox but requires tweaking, and no i dont quite consider flatpak, appimages, and even less snaps to be the solution cause as we can see software vendors often don't ship things these ways..
I tried Ubuntu 10 years ago, had a driver problem and kindly asked for help in a community, including system information, what I had already tried, what error message I got .... and how I was treated there, you could call it insulting. Now I've had Linux Mint in dual boot for half a year to get started into Linux and have hardly any problems because the hardware is fully supported and I read almost only friendly messages in the community when I look something up. Very good! I still have Windows 11, because there are better distros for gaming, but I'm slowly getting to grips with the subject.
Some points to address with your statements:
1.) Linux is not meant to be a drop-in replacement for Windows, it's a totally different OS and so must be the expectation of users that want to use it. Most of the software on Linux is FOSS and developers work on it on their free time, because they are passionate about it or because of donations. There are of course exceptions to this, like the GNOME and KDE foundations which are paid to produce applications and maintain their desktop environments, but they have much less budget and resources than Microsoft, so they are likely to produce application with less quality, both in terms of features, bugs and UI. A great example of this problem are photo and video editing software on Linux, they are far behind compared to their paid counterparts. So all this to say that you can't expect all to work seamlessly ( this isn't even true on Windows by the way, even if on a different degree ), any user will encounter bugs and maybe problems that must be addressed with the terminal, regardless of the distribution choice. I've personally used many distributions and even if on the surface it seems different, the story is always the same, you'll eventually wind up at the terminal, which is a good thing, because Linux spurs its users to tinker with it, it's not a plug and play OS and will never be. However this doesn't mean that there can't be easier distros to start with, but that if someone decides to make the switch it must expect to read and understand things along the way and not that things will just work.
2.) The problem of applications having a different or bad UI it's heavily related to what I said in the first point. Firstly the budget, usually there aren't UI specialists and the programmers do their work, and this alone may end up in subpar products. Then the FOSS nature itself causes software to have a fragmented style, because there is not a centralized authority which dictates how a certain software must look and feel, it's all up to the developers, hence you can't expect this kind of coherency. This can never be solved, unless money is pushed into foundations which will produce better FOSS software and that software would become so good to overshadow the other FOSS alternatives. Also just developing paid open source programs would be a great way to achieve this, people forget that Windows was a paid OS back in the day, and that now is free because it chews onto personal data, this is how it has prospered for these years. Big companies like Adobe produce their software just for Windows, because they know that the OS works for everyone and that everyone will use it and won't ever waste money trying to make a Linux version, because it wouldn't be convenient.
I aint readin all that🗿
Honestly, the average user of most computers is not interested in the "why" but in the "does it work".
I wouldn't want to blame the user for a lack of knowledge, especially in terms of setup, since it varies from distro to distro and is hard to obtain if you're not tech savvy.
Better onboarding and first user experience is paramount and even the best distros fail in certain areas.
1. That really don't need to be the case since running Linux doesn't mean not running proprietary software in entirely. They "can" run proprietary software, but most of them aren't ported to it (although vocal members of the community are purist that FOSS/Libre should replace everything).
The problem of this, the development cost for Linux is outstanding than just adding support for macOS or etc since they do have gazillion different subsystem for doing something (i.e. For sound, PulseAudio and Pipewire and For Graphics, X11 or Wayland. These different implementations), fragmentation of the system is too big that most of the boilerplate needed to write. Especially considering Wayland is missing core APIs for being proper compositor.
For the donation and UI perspective, We indeed have several FOSS projects that do have better UI/UX in general. MuseScore 3 (despite the drama) or Blender. The problem is most of the vocal members of the community are favor of "Privacy" and "Libre" purists. Those applications improve faster since developer check user feedback with actual user inputs (not people nagging on support forums) with actual use cases (i.e. Telemetry), Most of the vocal members HATE this (due to "Telemetry = Spying" purists) and since they are all "developers", they don't have good understanding of what is a good User Interface/Experience is and just focuses make their CLI and underlying APIs available on GUI compartment., most of the governance in FOSS project that has terrible UI usually doesn't give a f about the UI/UX development and just focuses on what "developers" interact.
Reminder: Windows is still not free. It is endless free trial, but so is Total Commander and many other apps with infinite free version, but with limitation. Windows IS STILL A PAID PRODUCT. You can bypass limitations, use the free version for the rest of your life, but Windows was and still is a paid product, freemium at best, not *free*
"A great example of this problem are photo and video editing software on Linux"
The vast majority of people, are not content creators, or artists...
Your argument is only valid for like... 10% of the entire world population, aka, it's f**king invalid to 90% of the world whom are casual, average users that are happy with web browsing, Libre, and gaming... To which Linux is ABSOLUTELY a replacement for windows.
GET... F**KING... REAL, brother... Oh my god... We need to stop making these arguments that are based on the use-case of a minority, it is not productive... Appeal to the majority FIRST, so you can secure USERS, which then increases MARKET SHARE, which then SECURES FUNDS... Only when we SECURE FUNDS, can we start making Linux TRULY viable for content creators and artists!
Until then, you can feel free to stop yapping about the minority! -.-
"Firstly the budget, usually there aren't UI specialists and the programmers do their work, and this alone may end up in subpar products."
Your second point, bleeds into my argument against your first point...
SECURE AVERAGE USERS FIRST... you can think about other things AFTER Linux desktop market share has gotten to where it needs to be, for corporations to take it seriously. First thing's first, don't get ahead of yourself... There's a proper order to things, respect that order, otherwise you will never get anywhere!
Windows has a single UI framework that all applications use. In macOS, there is one UI framework that all applications use. Sure, you can use other frameworks in your app on both systems (even from Microsoft and Apple themselves), but all of these frameworks use the one framework under the hood, at least to some extent (or are just wrappers around it, as in the case of Microsoft's and Apple's alternative frameworks). On Linux, you have GTK, Qt, X11lib, and a bunch of more obscure frameworks. Then there are distros that only use X11, distros that use Wayland by default, distros that offer both. If you design your application for a framework that does not match the framework used by all the user's other applications or their desktop, the application will look and feel alien to the user. Choice is only good if it doesn't matter what you choose, but in this case it does. I hate running Qt applications on a GTK desktop and vice versa. I hate running X11 applications in distros that otherwise only use Wayland. A Win 95 application running on Windows 11 looks better to a Windows 11 user than an X11 application running in Wayland.
And you can take the above as a pattern and extend it to ... startup services. Windows has one, macOS has one. Linux has init.d, systemd, OpenRC, etc., and they don't all work the same, act the same, and can be managed by the user the same way. Linux doesn't even have a standard font library for rendering fonts to the screen, and yes, different font libs render the same font in different ways, and the user will notice that something looks off. And don't get me started on desktops. Again, Windows and MacOS have only one desktop. You can customize it to your liking (well, not so much with MacOS), but there is only one desktop.
This sacred freedom of choice is Linux's biggest problem, as there are no standards and no common ground between distros, and often not even within a single distro. The only real thing that works that way is the kernel itself, because there is only one Linux, but everything in userspace is a total mess, because there is no entity that defines "this is how we do it, and this is the only way we do it", and if you want to do it differently, then you create your own system like Android, which also uses a Linux kernel, but is otherwise its own system and not comparable to desktop Linux systems. And no, I don't want to kill variants. Feel free to offer 100 alternatives to everything, but they must look, feel, and behave the same to the user if they are core system components. You can add features that others don't have and that aren't required by the core definition, but their core functionality must be the same. Just like I can choose between 100 different SQL databases, but the core SQL syntax is always the same syntax and will work on all those variations.
For apps, yeah, freedom of choice, pick any app you want. Applications are not part of the core system.
I'm gonna stick with the penguin 🐧. Infact programming, Linux administration etc amoung other tasks I only see doing with the penguin moving forward and as a bonus teach my little niece and nephew the way moving forward.
In Linux, the Linux community hands over a research problem to a user already struggling with compatibility issues.
In the end it doesn't matter if it's the fault of Linux that there aren't fully functional drivers for everything or that software isn't build for Linux. It's still the problem of Linux and a reason someone doesn't join.
The real problem is the lack of software. I tried Linux and I couldn't find Linux versions or any good alternatives to the software I use, and as someone who mainly uses proprietary Windows software, trying to run those in WINE and get them to integrate with the Linux file system is more trouble than it's worth, most people (like me for instance) are just not prepared to put the time and effort in to it.
Distro independent software does work though. Flatpak and AppImage make this easy but even without those generic binaries can be run across all Linux distros and in some cases even on BSD.
If you want to send emails, surf the web, organize your photos, stream some videos, and not much else then Mint is the way to go. Re-use an older system that “won’t support Windows” any longer.
Effing Wayland, poor Xrdp, Flatpak apps failing left and right, really bad compatibility with Remote Desktop apps, D-bus related issues, inability of remote booting with LUKS, Really bad selection of common utility apps, Perpetual permission errors, really bad multiple monitor support. These are the reasons why small businesses DO NOT choose Desktop Linux.
Couple things. Remmina is a fine RDP client. Though xRDP is a pain to setup yourself, standard Gnome Fedora and Ubuntu, I can tell you, just turn on remote access in the settings menu and it handles it for you. I'm sure many other distros have it built in. You can remote boot with luks...look up dropbear. But that's a linux server thing not a tool typically used in linux desktop. Permission errors? Can't say I've seen the same weirdness with permissions like I do with NTFS on file servers. I'll admit ACLs are a skill, but I have never been flat out lied to by the operating system on what the permission is like I have with Windows and NTFS. But maybe your experience is different.
We only need 3 distros: Debian, Fedora, and Arch.
Debian for maximum stability,
Arch for maximum freshness,
Fedora for when you want a balance of both
As for software looking old, I would say people use old looking software for its features. If they were down to give up features for design, the suite of libadwaita apps covers most needs with quite nice design. But no Linux distro can force its users to give up their old looking software like big corporations can.
Everyone and their mum copying Apple and Google's dumbed down, overly big and padded flat design is what's ruining UI for me.
If you're looking for that "Apple polish"... there's GNOME.
I want mine to look somewhat like windows 7 with stuff that is inside sysmon directly on the taskbar along with processor temps, no rounded corners, etc.
@@flamestoyershadowkill I use TDE because it offers the most authentic "old-school" PC desktop environment IMO.
Unless I’m too used to it as I’ve been using KDE for 6 years daily - I think it’s very easy to use and kinda straightforward and no issues at all
It's hard to compete with something proprietary that actually has structure to its decision making and tons of money behind it
The key is structure. The only thing structured and unified is the only thing every Linux has in common with the rest: the kernel
Linux has not only Adobe Issue, Linux has mostly important Printers Driver Issue 😭
My ideas for better Linux unity:
Three distros is a good idea. I think most of us can agree that Debian and Arch should be on that list, Debian for those favoring stability and Arch for the bleeding edge and advanced users.
The third should be (hot take) Ubuntu, the snap issue isn't that bad and most of my apps are installed as .deb anyway. Ubuntu is really easy to use and really stable. You rarely even need the terminal.
Three desktop environments is also a good idea imo, I was thinking Plasma for customization and windows-y-ness, GNOME for mac-like-ness and consistency, and Hyprland for those who prefer tiling.
Also snaps and linyapps are bad imo, I think all distros should just support flatpaks outta the box. Its not THAT hard to get flatpaks working on Ubuntu, but it does require some stuff that shouldn't need to be done. Ubuntu and Deepin should just switch to flatpaks.
There's also the question of deb vs rpm, maybe arch could have deb emulation and ubuntu and debian could have rpm emulation.
wait, you're going to recommend Arch Linux, Debian, Gnome and Hyprland to noobs?
that's not going to go well...
@@kidgoku1984 Not all of those are for noobs, just those are good projects that are well established and in my opinion have earned their respective places in the linux landscape
@@kidgoku1984 also I've thought about it more and the variety in desktop environments is actually a good thing, because it allows you to build your own experience.
@@CrafterAurora sure, but I think this video was trying to say that we should mention 2-3 distros for noobs
Simple misunderstanding there lmao.
Variety in desktop environments is great! But not for new users... I don't think a new user would be comfortable building their own experience on Hyprland, Gnome, or XFCE for example.
" the snap issue isn't that bad and most of my apps are installed as .deb anyway"... Looking into our personal cases as examples is what has taken us here.
Can we all agree that the best suggestion for newbies is Linux Mint? it's the most popular one, easiest to troubleshoot, so i think we should suggest that for beginners, instead of anything else.
It would definitely be a good default for newbs. I ran Mint for about 10 years, and it was easy and reliable.
@@haplozetetic9519 100%
I switched from Windows to Mint in 2019, it went well. Cinnamon is similar enough to Windows 7 to make quick start. I've heard good things about POP but have no experience with it.
Mint for Cinnamon, Zorin OS for Gnome
@@duracell80 Zorin is unstable though? At least last time i tried it, the desktop kept disappearing randomly, and i had to restart the computer to get it back, lol.
Zorin is horrible.
Now I know this video is Linux for the average everyday user, but I see a lot of people in the comments saying how Linux is worthless and will never be used in the real world. They don't really know how the real world operates. If Linux got wiped out today and no trace of it was left behind, then we would have a worse internet outage than CrowdStrike, and this would indeed affect the normal everyday user
And the latest Windows updates that install 8.64 G on your computer that can't be removed, good luck with that.
I think the difference is people saying linux is worthless are talking about the graphical desktop designed for end user use. Not server versions. Those i think we can all agree on are stable and extremely good at what they do.
Wayland is not ready yet, but many apps are still being developed and maintained in X11 because X11 is not dead (yet) and it just works, no matter how spaggetti coded and screwed up on the inside it actually is
Wayland will never be ready.
@escthedark3709 Yeah, I hope my grandkids get to see it complete, or maybe my great grand kids
Real reason: poor or no marketing
That's essentially it. That plus the Windows fanbois (maybe bots) that always run in a repeat the same myths of Linux that were true in 1999
"Linus is so hard to use. You have to type in lots of commands in the terminal to get anything done. It's too hard for non-programmers to use."
This propaganda is HIGHLY effective and because people are generally TERRIFIED of the command line they will pay any amount of money and put up with any amount of Microsoft abuse to avoid it.
I hate to say it but the bots work.
@@jedipadawan7023 Using brain isn't that illegal nowadays...
I'm not a Linux fanboy, I just got fed up with windows bloat and slow OS..
Windows 7 was last best windows... period
@@perplexreality6081 Using the CLI has always scared people.
Going back to DOS and CP/M, I remember people being TERRIFIED of typing commands. It's just not natural to most people and they are convinced they will type in the wrong thing and cause physical damage. It's not a brain problem, it's a fear problem.
So putting the terminal and Linux together as bots (I think) do is HIGHLY effective as a deterrent.
Of course, Linux has great GUI's now (er, GNOME open to debate, mind) and Linux needs terminal as much as Windows needs powershell but the bots always appear.
@@jedipadawan7023 I don't knw what u r talking about..
I'm just saying windows 7 is last best windows according to me rest all are slower bloated ad infested windows..
That's why I switched to Linux mint since a year now
@@perplexreality6081 Oh OK. Making reference to 'brain' suggested you might have been arguing that people being afraid of the CLI might be 'brain deficient.' My apologies for that misunderstanding.
I mentioned, tho, because I HAVE seen many a Linux make that claim and state the CLI use is A good Thing and people really, really get down to the CLI work and writing helpful scripts.
That doesn't help. Seen that MANY times in comments and the context in how I read your post.
Sorry that I got it wrong.
I bailed on Windows 7 as well. Everything after 7 has just been Microsoft abuse.
As a linux user using kde I... really don't know which applications looks old lol, all I use as of right now looks way better than windows and I seriously wasn't aware of any software used as an example (I use kdenlive which looks fairly good I don't use a calendar app, maybe that's why?)
I daily drove Linux for about 4 months but it's just to unstable. Every time I start it there's always something. That plus the lack of proper alternatives (like the Adobe suite, you gotta compile VMware yourself and deal with dependencies (virtual box is just to janky to replace VMware) and autohotkey etc). Hopefully the windows 10 end of life will encourage more people to move to Linux and in turn encourage developers to make proper alternatives.
There's also the annoying mindset of Linux software devs to be as diffirent from the industry stuff as possible, just because (like krita devs complaining about people wanting more Photoshop like stuff)
krita wasnt made as a photoshop replacement, use gimp if you want that
@@exaq LOLWHAT? gimp is as good replacement for photoshop as bike is a replacement for ferrari. Most linux fanboys are clearly delusional =)
I’m on the camp of leaving linux as a workstation/casual use desktop. If you want to do anything gaming or productivity wise keep it to windows/mac. When I was younger (turning 28 next month) I used to tinker and mess around constantly with computers and multiple distros. Getting older and balancing the gym/work/social life and family. I don’t want to come home to something that may or may not work. In my case it’s games. I just want to have my system for the most part work. Linux just needs to be streamlined to “just work” for it to be a main desktop for all users. Currently on Mac and windows. I love Linux but can’t be bothered as much anymore.
im a IT Engineer on a Linux and Unix working environment, when i go home i just want something that works when im gaming,😅
You're thinking about it too narrowly. The freedom of choice that can be paralyzing comes from different people having different sometimes mutually exclusive ideas and communities forming around those solutions.
Instead of thinking about is gatekeeping you should consider that most users would like new users to do one of the following:
- find a distro that you vibe with with minimal modifications
- cobble something together until you are content
- strike your own path and create what you feel is missing which others might find useful
I personally think especially when talking about it online that people need to stop treating Linux as this blob that's supposed to cater to you when you are empowered to encouraged to take matters into their own hands.
Linux mint xfce is my first Linux experience, and to this day i use it on my work laptop and my desktop, it looks slick after i modified it and it only sips on ram (600-800 mb) .
Wayland has soooooo many small issues that casual users find and just can't fix at all...
People bought Windows systems because they were sold in the stores. People went through pain and suffering to learn how to use Windows. People don’t want to suffer through learning something new.
Professionals: Ubuntu, Fedora 🤓
Gamers: PopOS, Nobara, SteamOS? 😎
Infertile: Arch, Gentoo 💀
But SteamOS IS Arch
@@Vitis-n2v Same energy as "Ubuntu is just Debian". 🤓
@@earth2k66 you forgot me lfs
Gamers: Nobara, SteamOS, Bazzite, CachyOS.
PopOS is not on that list... PopOS is beginner Distro, like Linux Mint.
Gentoo is the best distro hands down
Some solutions to mentioned topics as I see them.
1: Just don't be mean and suggest your newbie friend something - well newbie friendly. Mint or Ubuntu should be fine for newcomer way more than Arch.
2: Just DON'T be gatekeeper. Everyone was newbie at some point.
3: I heard Valve put their fingers into this topic, so we might be covered
4: Matter of preference. If you ask me - as long as it works and is logical to use - it may look even like win98
Why is the PC successful when choice is a bad thing? If I don't want choice, I can buy a Mac. If I do want to have more choice which hardware to use, I can pick up a PC. But then, for both Windows and macOS, I'm forced to go with whatever MS or Apple think is the right thing to do. Now imagine Linux would be only Fedora, only 6 months release cycle, and only vanilla GNOME, and only Flatpak as a universal packaging format. Might work for the many people, but I doubt this would be the key to more desktop usage. The majority of Linux developers are collaborating, even when focusing on different distros and different desktop environments. Sometimes there are competing solutions (see Snap and Flatpak), but eventually, often one standard emerges as a de-facto winner (see systemd). And if multiple solutions exist in parallel for a long time, then maybe there's a need for multiple solutions (see the different desktop environments and window managers: lightweight vs. full-featured, opinionated vs. configurable, traditional vs. progressive etc.).
TLDR: we don't need something that targets the 95% of people who are served well with Windows and macOS if this would mean that we would make life worse for the 5% of people who want Linux on the desktop to be exactly as it is: The way they want it to be.
Choice is perfectly fine. But you still need a distribution that delivers what Windows does so people have a place where they can learn without having to read a bunch of documentation and forum posts that doesn't make much sense unless you have a background in IT. I would say the distribution that fulfills this better than the distributions I have tried so far is Linux mint. It just has less compatibility than something like arch. We do need something that targets 95% of people, because they are not served well with Windows or macOS. The amount of people I know that`s not techy at all that is frustrated with with windows because of the constant privacy breaches and spyware makes that clear. There is a need for a basic OS that doesn't try to fuck you over by collecting info on everything you do.
@@paro2210 I agree 100%, that's something we need for sure. And Mint is probably the best Windows alternative for most people. It also comes with an always up to date kernel now (HWE), so compatibility shouldn't be a problem anymore.
When I saw the title I immediately said "too many distros" and "incompatability between linux distros themselves" as the main issues.
Having watched it now I was right, and he gave a couple of others I hadn't considered.
I feel like Linux is always several years away from hitting it big, always held back by compatibility and lack of specific features important at the time
Not a problem for me. The things that don't work on Linux I don't use anyway and gaming is boring. Already switched to Linux in 2017 and never looked back.
Ikr, and the gap is just getting bigger and bigger.
Linux share has quadrupled in the last few years. This is not insignificant.
@@nikolatasev4948 4.5%
With the introduction of frog protocols for wayland being introduced and already having such a massive impact on how new protocols are introduced, I think it's pretty safe to say that the wayland problem shouldn't be an issue
I agree with point number 1. There's too many distros as how there's too many spoken languages. I think we should stick to only one language and that's german.
Let's also stick with only one race and one party.
But which kind of German? Swiss German? Palatine German? 1950s Barossa Valley German?
@@Luquinha-qf4kb So sigma!
@@musicalneptunian The Old High German repo is the only one a true aficionado would recommend for noobs.
It is probably fine on desktop but for certain laptops, especially with more than one gpu, it is a major pain in the ass to install drivers. It took a major company to get involved to finally make gaming better, but it still is a pain in some cases.
Linux will start catching up when the community gains self awareness on why Linux is unusable to people who don't have computer science degrees.
@@Mzansi74 mint is not the "linux" people are referring to. If a distro comes with easily configured desktop environments, its not at all different than windows or macos. I'd want to see you easily move someone with absolutely no tech background into a distro like arch without the use of archinstall, where they explain how each of the commands they're writing in the cli works on a low level basis. That is the entire point of linux anyway. If you dont understand how or why your system works, not much point in using linux, going for KDE, Gnome, Mint, Ubuntu or anything else. Nobody is referring to those as "linux". Use arch, customise all your system files to add custom scripts to automate processes like devops or security, start your own nixos configuration and implement concurrency, per-start switches with automated backups, modularity through flakes with a real-time flake config switcher and so on. Write your own sound drivers, write your own desktop environment from scratch, contribute to open source projects like hyprland or arch itself, fix github issues and so on. Calling mint, ubuntu or any other bloated, preconfigured, preinstalled distro "linux" gives an entirely wrong idea. When using distrod like arch you even need to decide which file manager you want, what "image preview" package you want to install, which desktop envirobment or window manager or compositor or display server or audio system and the list just goes on.
@@Mzansi74 Your attitude right now is the problem with the Linux community. Btw how would you feel if you didn't have breakfast this morning?
They need to realize why windows is easy to use.
@@MegaLokopo They will never say the reasons because they have attached their ego to an operating system.
@@Mzansi74 That 60 year old is completely helpless due to the fuck you find out on your own attitude of the Linux community. With windows all if have to know how to do something is double click and Google. Not so for Linux. And you people simultaneously want to gatekeep users while spreading the misinformation that it's just as easy to use as Windows or almost as easy which is a blatant objective lie. You can't have your cake and eat it to. Do better buddy.
This video made me subscribe. You made very good points!
Personally, I've tried Wayland but I'm not moving over until ALL of the rough patches are fixed. I'm a patient kind of guy.
I really don't think we as Linux users should even care if Windows or Mac users ever come over. Let them enjoy what they've got, if they can, as long as I don't have to suffer with it myself. If they want to use Linux, great. If they don't then that doesn't matter to me one little bit. Not everybody can handle the brainwork involved.
Funny how people who can't understand Linux get so militant against the people who can.
i use arch btw
i too use arch btw
what is arch btw?
I love Gentoo btw. But for simplicity's sake I migrated to Void.
@@SirStumblesALot ive tried gentoo and even linux from scratch but i always prefer arch for whatever reason
@@SirStumblesALot but ive heard void is pretty good too
Appreciate this video. Much better, more adult-like narrative than what I see on reddit subs or linux forums. You've got a new subscriber!
Fedora, openSUSE or Debian. Everyone else is just pretending
What about arch, i prefer debian but a lot seem to bet on arch
OpenSUSE seems to be heading into the dumpster with the parent company making some questionable decisions. Debian is just too outdated for desktop use imo. Fedora has the downside that you have to install some proprietary drivers because it ships only with foss ones that often don't work properly. Other than that Fedora is easily the best distro.
@@michalsvihla1403 just a note: you can install whatever drivers you want, they just don't come with the original install. after that installation you are free to do what you want.
Your point about Wayland needs to support every application that 11 supports is very important. I'll give a really good example: software testing:
I test a GUI desktop app for Linux, currently the open source test tool I use only works in X11 not Wayland, so I investigated other open source test tools for testing desktop apps to see which ones work in Wayland, the answer was none, I'd be very interested if anyone is running automated tests for desktop GUI apps in Wayland and what tool they are using? And if the answer is no-one is testing GUI Desktop apps in Wayland well that could well be a bigger problem......
Linux is not a distribution. Linux is not an operating system. Linux is not a drop in replacement for Windows or Mac OS X. Linux is a kernel. That's how and why Google was able to build Android and Chrome OS which don't function like typical distributions - In fact, I'd go as far as to argue that they aren't distributions. Why? Most of the production grade software users consume is proprietary and walled off from the public.
Wayland isn't quite ready yet. i also agree that the developers of Wayland need give app developers more time to adapt and switch over to it. It doesn't matter what OS people use, the fact of the matter is the most of us are creatures of habit and like to use specific programs for specific tasks and this applies to Linux as well. If people can't use certain programs, then they may go back to Windows or MacOS.
The design aspect is definitely a reason as to why people would be put off. Gnome and Cosmic have a consistent and good looking style to them. (Un)fortunately, Linux is made up of programmers and not designers, so there aren't many options beyond it without tinkering with things yourself. I personally find KDE Plasma horribly designed and cluttered while Gnome is easy to read and use.
meanwhile windows has programers and designers and they all work for money so it's alot more stable and supported. i will wait for valve to make a desktop os for now
@@pig12900You mean SteamOS ?
@@Karurosagu yes
True. There are hundreds of distros, each with different GUIs. And yet, when I need to do something I can Google a terminal command that works when I copy and paste it on the command line. Try that with Windows. On Windows, there are always TH-cam instructions, but they never have the same sequence of windows and mouse clicks that work on my computer.
If you need to ask which distro to pick. Then the answer should be mint. After that you're mostly competent to chart your own path of the distro rabbit hole.
i'm using both windows and ubuntu each for specific reasons and i'm a developer. but before i even start my IT journey i was simply windows user and i was able to use it with minimal (and close to none) technical knowledge which i for now see its not possible to do when using linux like there really a lot of things that seemed to be typical user activities if i weren`t technical enough i would definitely miss up my system.
The thing is Linux "desktop enviorments" need to consider more the idea of build it like if 5 years old would be using it.
The problem is 3.5% of PC users is not a huge market.
The problem is that only those 3.5% of the PC users are interested in Linux.
@@Hardcore_Remixer fair enough but when people learn about HOW their computer works they tend to take at least a a passing interest in Linux.
Most people don’t care how their car works either
It's almost 5 percent now.
@@claycassin8437 I guess that’s the steam deck ?
@@seanfaherty Part of it is people really hating Windows 11. First time random non technical user ever asked me about using Linux as a daily driver was after Recall was announced and quite a few of my more technically knowledgeable friends (including myself) have switched since 11 came out. Windows 11 finally got me to the point where I'd rather deal with Linux problems than Windows ones (though I do still have a windows box around for some things).
If a newbie asks me which distro is "best", I tell him to watch TH-cam vids about Mint, Kubuntu, and Fedora and see which one he likes best. If he doesn't seem to like that idea, I say the default choice for someone new is Mint. There's also the option of trying a distro out on a thumb drive or an old computer, but a lot of newbies don't want to do that. I also am clear to them to not expect Linux to be just like Windows or Mac. You can customize to make things a lot like Windows or Mac, but it's still never going to be identical.
100% agree with everything you said. We need to fix ppls attitudes not just the software. Its the problem of leadership by the community. Linux is tribal, community splinter off into new tribes when we dont agree. Even Linus has pointed of that this splintering off is a huge issue for the future of linux. Give everyone a voice and you achieve nothing.
There are not too many distros. It is like you are saying that there are too many shoes in a shoe shop. The distros are just choices for the user. You get to choose the one that suits your needs the best. If you are a beginner then choose a beginner friendly distro. If you are an expert and love tinkering then pick and advanced distro. As you grow used to Linux then try another flavor or customize the one you are using. The biggest problem I had was not knowing what the many disros did. As I was an expert Windows user, I thought I was an expert in Linux too. I was not. My problems went away once I accepted that I knew nothing and was willing to learn new methods. Start at the beginning and grow. You do not learn to drive in an F1 car.
Shoes dont need software
Too many distros = bad compatibility with specific software
@@yahavcohen3678 There is the Linux Kernel, then there are distros. They all do the same thing. That is translate user input so the hardware can work. They also look pretty with things like different browsers and backdrops. They all run the same software. They maybe packaged differently but Linux is Linux. It is clear you don't run Linux and think a distro is like Mac or Windows. Please tell us what specific software only runs on one distro?
@tiomkinnyborg2289 for example DaVinci resolve a few years ago (now not sure)
All that compatibility issues fixing is done by distro maintainer, and only for open source programs (for obvious reasons). Most proprietary software is targeting a small set of distros at best.
And actually there are a lot of patched versions of Linux, that can cause issues with your favorite app - so developers cannot be sure even that most basic stuff like the kernel, glibc and systemd are present in the system.
@@tomiyoshi The kernel is present in ALL systems or there would be NOTHING. If they wanted a program to run everywhere then make a Flatpak, Appimage or Snap. Propriety software is made to lock people out and most Linux users avoid it. It is only used as a last resort. If a program refuses to run , I'll use something else. It is not the fault of the Distro.
@tiomkinnyborg2289 some distros may easily switch to custom patched kernels, so you never can be sure which set of kernels you should test on.
Most of the professional software is proprietary - DaVinci, Intellij (the paid version), the industry specific software i worked on... and while you can often replace it with foss, in most cases they either have less features, awful ux design, being buggy or all of them. There are opposite examples of both sides of course, but in general, I can't replace the software I mentioned with anything open source, even though I tried
I use Wayland mainly and definitely agree on the point of seamlessness. Only a few things don't work right for me such as Discord streaming but there are other ways to do that such as the browser or better apps or even just X11. Ironically my AMD machine with Tumbleweed is stuck on Wayland because X11 kicks me back to the login whereas my CachyOS Nvidia laptop works on either one but Sway and Qtile in particular kick me back to the login on the Wayland sessions. Hyprland works but is glitchy and of course KDE and GNOME work just fine. The Tumbleweed install ran Sway fine on an old 1050 Ti machine with newer drivers. Sway kicked me back to login on Arch on the AMD machine but not on CachyOS and I haven't tried it on the AMD/Tumbleweed combo yet.
The main #1 problem is that PC manufacturers don't sell computers with Linux, they sell them with Windows. Why is Windows so popular? Because it's automatically installed on all computers that people buy. Most people don't know what OS they are using, or what an operating system even is. They have certainly never heard of Linux. Windows isn't better, it's just ubiquitous, and for the vast majority of humans using a computer, the only operating system they know that exists. They are given no choice when people buy a PC. When HP and Lenovo and Dell and all these other OEMs start advertising new computers with Linux on them, the existence of it will go largely unnoticed by the vast majority of people. That's why it's behind.
Anyone who tried linux and came back to Windows knows that this isnt the 1# problem at all. The bigger problem is that linux is by nature un-organized and no one is really responsible for their work, which results in frequent regressions, which leads to people having to mess with configuration all the time to fix things. Avarage PC user will NEVER EVER put up with that. Its a deal breaker. I actually wouldnt be surprised if the reason why manufacturers dont support linux natively wasnt due to bad marketing but because they are aware of the linux mess and dont want to deal with it.
"Most people dont know what OS theyre using, or what an operating system even is" this is one of those things that sounds true at first, but when you think about it its kinda not. The fact is that most regular people, especially the not-super-old crowd, knows what Windows is, knows whar MacOS is, and understands them to be the big 2 choices for computer software. There's a reason why there are a million "if Apple were to make a car, would it have Windows?" jokes. But you are kind of right in that i think your average consumer thinks that apple computers run macos, and everything else runs windows. Hence the confusion when ChromeOs laptops hit store shelves
Inertia; the same thing holding Linux back is the same thing that caused Windows Phone to flopp. Nobody cares about the OS or the company it comes from, they just want to know if the device they bought will run the apps all their friends are using perfectly out of the box and they will settle for whatever OS that came out of the box. Microsoft learned from the failure of Windows Phone; that people have no loyalty to them so they'll practically give away licenses to OEMs for free subsidized by bloatware, adware, telemetry to undercut any OEM like System76 that would offer Linux.
This is...blatantly false. If Linux was on, say 25% of computers in stores, 90% of those would be returned as defective or otherwise not the product that the customer was expecting.
The only reason this notion is so prevalent in the Linux community is because of selection bias. The vast majority of the people who can say that they tried it and didn't like it are the ones who aren't in the Linux community, thus very few Linux users realize just how many Windows and Mac users have tried and explicitly disliked using Linux enough to go back.
Something I have enjoyed in my very limited attempt is, I tried Mint, had issues, and then because I had set up /home on a partition, actually figured out how to install Bazzite instead without having to reinstall gigabytes of games. If I knew of other distros to try, it might not even take too long to re-partition the / and /boot sectors to something new.
Partitions are a lot simpler than I used to think, but I imagine a lot of people still find them scary and arcane. I only wish installers recommended some size defaults if you’re going to split things up.
U can limit the list to the main one from which all derive.
1. Debian
2. Archlinux
3. Fedora
I never had a distro that doesnt break with my Thinkpad x230, already tested Arch, Void, openSUSE and Fedora thats why I reverted back to Windows LTSC and setup my desktop complete with the Linux workflow and hotkeys (GlazeWM, Flow Launcher + myDockFinder)
I have 5 distros for new users that I recommend. That is Linux Mint, Fedora and Pop_OS! for new users that wants something easy to install and easy to use. For power user or more advanced users I would recommend Debian or Arch. So that is Linux Mint, Fedora, Pop_OS!, Debian and Arch. I personally use Arch and prefer it over all of the ones I have tried.
for me it's 3, beginner Mint, advanced CachyOS and somewhere inbetween OpenSUSE
I found a few distros actually fitting the need for a low froction experience. Mint and Fedora. All other so far needed extensive setup and or maintenance with either technical knowledge or hours of forum diving.
The Linux community thinks the only thing it needs to beat Windows is to copy the start menu and have a web browser. I take back everything bad I said about Windows. It is and will remain the most user friendly OS. You can thank the Linux community for that. I now see the Linux community has ZERO self awareness and that's not something you can turn on. I feel like such an idiot even trying. Doesn't matter what they put in Windows I will never force myself to be around these NPCs.
6:42 love that animation of the penguin docking to the ISS! lmao
Honestly, linux feels like radiator springs from the movie cars.
Thanks for sticking your neck out. If every Linux user accepted there were problems and that there should be at least one distro where user experience as opposed to tribalism was paramount, Linux might be a viable Windows replacement.
I daily drove Linux for several years but gave up for the sake of my sanity.
You completely missed the point on step 2. You don't need to read the manual on Windows and Mac OS. That is the point.
I mean, sometimes, when it gets to it. Mostly because Windows is an avalanche of menus on top of menus and Mac is locked down beyond belief. But for the average user, they shouldn't need one.
Is that reason why people using Windows and macOS asks my help to setup system?
you don't need to read the manual because someone has taught you to use windows either in schools or family members.
@@gruntaxeman3740depends on understanding of setup.
If writing .iso on flash drive (with first party tool, btw, aka MCT), booting into BIOS, loading said flash drive -> clicking "Install" -> i don't have a key of product on hand -> wipe drive -> partition drive -> Install System and waiting for it to install and reboot is hard, then i don't think you could argue that it would've been easier for them to properly setup Linux from scratch.
Because process would've been basically exactly same (with additional questions like "what is file system and which one should i select?"), if not slightly more problematic due to Secure Boot, GRUB and often needing third-party tool to flash .iso to your flash drive.
@@DimkaTsv
Any setup. People don't know how to setup machines, not even with factory images because they need some cloud accounts and connect those, testing that cloud authentication works and also connect machine to router, email working on email app, browser bookmarks and software upgrades after installation. And of course migrate data from backups. If OS is installed without factory images, there is then also partitioning and possible to add drivers that are not ready on installation image. And if computer is not brand new, need to test memory and hard drives that thay are not broken.
People who use mostly macOS and Windows are all beginners, they need help on computer setup. By default they lack basic IT-skills.
I really appreciate your approach to this. You listed some genuine issues without hyperbolizing them and without digging into the politics of them.
Though that said, as another comment mentioned, most people recommend Pop_OS or Mint, and as another said, the look of those distros drives people away. So I would say the issue isn't having good "beginning friendly" distros, its that a lot of current Linux users bailed during the Windows 10 era and think Windows 7 was the Be All and End All. This, then, ties into your point about aesthetic mattering, as a lot of ex-Windows users (myself included) *LOVE* KDE Plasma for its sleek, very modern aesthetic.
I have zero hope for Linux being anything more than a micro-niche. It will never be widely used because open-source software is complicated. Also, democracy sucks! Unless you have one person in charge of everything guiding the project toward a tangible goal, everything is just bickering and fighting and tribalism. Also, Linux is on borrowed time. When Linus retires the kernel is going to be in the hands of the Linux Foundation, which doesn't really care about Linux at all, so the kernel will fracture. Maybe then one determined group will be able to take the reigns with a popular fork and build a cohesive desktop offering, but I won't hold my breath. Ubuntu, Mint, Pop are the only beginner-friendly offerings that can be used out-of-the-box for basics like office work, and as long as Windows retains majority market share, Linux will never be good for gaming.
Pfp checks out.
ikr lol. Once I said this problem out like, the average common user ABSOLUTELY NEED GUI. They need buttons and directions of what they can do. They don't wanna stare into a black void of blank not knowing what to do and having to look up commands on internet to memorize. And then some Loonixtrd replied 'skill issue lol' -- that's when I know and realize 'haha yeah, no wonder Linux keeps staying a hobby-only option for the tech savvy and will never reach the mass of common people'.
Zorin OS will change your mind.
@@duracell80 That's what they all say.
@@duracell80 "[insert some Linux distro] will change your mind" has been a saying for more than a decade. It never manifested.
To my understanding, a lot of the community infighting is made to look a lot worse than it actually is. Yes its not good for Linux's reputation, but most Linux users are in solidarity of just hating Windows and letting the distro you choose be an afterthought, if even that. The people who infight are in my understanding a vocal minority.
I refuse to use linux regardless of how better it is than windows/ios. It's not intuitive whatsoever and looking for answers takes ages. If installing each game/hardware will take hours of my free time it's simply not worth it. Not mentioning the amount of stuff that's straight up not supported at all.
Yep, I'm a passionate gamer, and until at least some of the Linux distros have 100% fixed gaming compatibility, I'd never use it, since I love playing and heavily modding all sorts of games. (200 in my Steam library alone)
From what I've heard, Linux has gotten better with games in the last years, but is still FAR away from Win10/11 as an OS.
Until I can run games flawlessly on my 4090 rig it is simply not an option. I hope Linux will get there eventually, of course. Then I'd reconsider.
Literally me
I don't game, so for me that's not an issue.
The games that are not supported are mostly because their parent companies refuse to add Linux support. Please stop blaming Linux distros for this issue.
GTA V is a great example, as it used to run fine on Linux systems, through Proton, but then Rockstar decided to add anticheat to multiplayer. Then they blamed Valve for not supporting Linux, while Rockstar just had to enable Linux support for their anticheat.
Regarding game modding, depending on what games you play, you may be in luck. I have successfully played modded Elden Ring and Outer Wilds on Linux.
a user friendly distro is actually better for the user (in my experience at least) and had generally more hardware compat. however windows software doesnt run on linux either because it uses the windiws kernel (kernel anticheat) or because of explicit chrcka if it is running under linux. there is no technical reason (innthe general case) for whitch an app wouldnt run. this however doesnt change the fact those bad actor apps wont run. this can be changed only if such developers were put under pressure by just using linux, akak increasing its stake. maybe ggive linux another shot, id recommend mint or kubuntu
the asthetic one kinda got me.
I am still searching for a file manager that looks modern (like for ex. nautilus), but actually frickin works (unlike nautilus, for some reason it always moves files, no matter if i hold ctrl or not).
For the last 2 years. Nothing found yet.
The real reason is that we don't have Xenia as the mascot and instead stuck to the fat penguin.
xenia is gay i dont want it
i like tux the penguin :(
Another thing that affects the use of Linux is that there are very few computers available that have a distribution of Linux preinstalled on them. To a large extent a person has to take an X86 computer running a version of Microsoft Windows. Then partition the storage drive and then go through the process of installing a distribution of linux on the new partition. Also the person needs to set up a dual boot software that allows them to either choose Microsoft Windows or Linux.
poor Linux people thinking that there is a chance for linux ..listen !! don't lie to people ..as long as the users can not do 99% of the tasks in GUI then do not talk about linux or the year of linux or any of that wishiwashi wishful thinking bullshit
You mean like having to edit samba.conf by hand just to share your Public folder?
And heaven forbid you want to set up a VNC server.
Those examples are from Mint by the way. Cinnamon is very usable.
Ikr lol. Once I said this problem out like, the average common user ABSOLUTELY NEED GUI. They need buttons and directions of what they can do. They don't wanna stare into a black void of blank not knowing what to do and having to look up commands on internet to memorize. And then some Loonixtrd replied 'skill issue lol' -- that's when I know and realize 'haha yeah, no wonder Linux keeps staying a hobby-only option for the tech savvy and will never reach the mass of common people'.
The mere existence of a GUI isn't nearly enough, it needs to be good. GUIson Linux are notoriously inconsistent in quality and structure alike, making the console the 'best' choice simply because the alternative is garbage.
I've always felt the same way with the sheer number of distros. The community needs to pick a handful of distros to get behind. As many other commenters have suggested, Mint (non-Ubuntu) is an excellent choice. I chose Debian with KDE running on X11. (I need Wayland to support screensavers.)
I vehemently disagree with mint being great for a first time user. It looks ugly and ancient and has no feel of either novelty or sophistication. For a novice/ casual-esque user it looks you're "pulling him back", instead of "pushing him forward".
Ever since the introduction of LibAdwaita I find GNOME a much better introduction to the world of Linux. It manages to impress both Windows and MacOS users due to its clean, elegant aesthetics. And above all, *IRL I have managed to positively impress a number of people just by showing them GNOME.* As an ardent supporter of Linux and Foss this is very important.
Also, if you're interested in spreading the word until "the year of the Linux Desktop" becomes a reality, do not be lead astray by the self-referential echo chamber of the Linux community. What the FOSS community thinks, perceives or feels often amounts to a projection of a projection, and is often out-of-touch with the impetuses of "normal consumers" (aka "normies").
In my experience it is simply due to Linux distros not including and fully integrating things, such as Wine, which are required to run the majority of programs.
Moreover, not having the latest versions of apps available on their package managers is befuddling to any new Linux user.
Imho, if a user needs to use wine to run the majority of the programs they use (meaning the linux alternatives don't do what they need), maybe switching to linux isn't the best idea anyway.
Linux isn't Windows, and if big software companies don't port to linux, wine is just a crutch that won't be as solid as users would need it to be.
But it's a vicious circle : if people don't switch to linux, its userbase won't grow, thus big companies will keep ignoring it, thus their apps aren't on linux, thus people don't switch to linux... and so on.
You're doing fine. Your story is coherent and easy to follow, and had the right tempo. I just wish the video was a bit longer. (= even more content)