Even though the enclosure was a bad performer, still loved the concept. One bad thing about it is the restrictive output with such a thin port and sub hidden. Great vid! Glad your issue with the laptop was fixed.
Glad you're up and running. I know this one didn't do well but its good to see what works and what doesn't. I know I have crazy ideas for this kind of stuff so seeing a real test is great. Thank you for the videos man.
First thing I thought of when I saw the design was "cancellation". There's virtually no separation between the front and rear of the cone, so they tend to cancel out and you get very low spl levels. Sure enough, very low output. It's still cool to see these designs tested, though. This is a great series Sam. I hope we see a traditional style horn loaded box soon.
I love this series. Keep them coming I should send a design. This will help people understand and decide what kind of box to use in there builds awesome 👍
at 6:30 ish, what you are hearing is a "subharmonic" it can be created by playing a note, and its perfect fifth together. these 2 notes have a ratio of 2:3, and create a new note with a ratio of 1. one octave below the fundamental. this is how small speakers can add harmonics to make it sound like they have more bass, and why fifth chords (power chords) sound so full on a guitar. you can even sing a subharmonic by yourself with enough practice.
upon watching further, this is exactly what is happening. the waveform looks like a subharmonic, and you can see the new "harmonic" sneak up between the fundamental and the first harmonic at the same time the subharmonic shows up on the rta graph. i have no explination as why its producing the fifth, but the fifth is what is causing the subharmonic.
Forever ago, Pioneer marketed the TS-WX50 which was a prepackaged subwoofer that fit inside a spare tire rim so you could keep your spare and have at least a hint of bass in the car. It used a similar design where the driver played into the vent. Very neat design but I don't know how one would model it properly. Thanks for the test!
The issue is the acoustic short path in this printed design. If you note.. the pioneer wheel sub had the driver pretty much right at the outer mouth of the vent. Pioneer also used resonators to solve/mask some of this design's issues. The printed box shown in the vid has the woofer placed right at the throat of the port meaning the short path is next to nothing... regardless of the air volume of the cab. Xx
Oh, no diss on the Pioneer piece. I sold them back in the day and they were just the right thing for lots of people. I always thought it a clever design
Good to see the best show on earth is back !!!!!!!!!!!!! Glad everything worked out and a great choice of enclosure this week.. Like the idea, he should evolve it to a V2 with a Horn!!! I would guess this is a 3rd order. I think a 5th order has 1 sealed side with 2 ported sides (example: 4th order within a ported 2nd chamber around it all then tuned). 7th order has (example: 6th order within a ported 2nd chamber around it all then tuned ) Would be interesting to confirm from others the right Formula orders.
Hexi base kind of touched on what your doing here in his last video. He makes a statement about you can’t scale frequencies like you are. He is quick with it. It’s in his video where he shows his workflow and his cabin simulation and goes through a range of enclosures orders. Might be worth reaching out to him via email and pick his brain.
What he said was very different. He means you cant take a design for a 15" sub that plays 25-40hz in a certain way, and scale it down to a 6.5" box that also plays 25-40hz in a certain way. What I am doing is completely different because the frequencies are scaling as well with the enclosure. Its just fluid dynamics. Hexi is absolutely correct in what he said but it doesnt relate to this series :)
love it man,keep it up,I have a request,can you measure the frequency response with rew and show it in the video,it would really give some insight as to what's going on
I think the lack of output had more to do with the lack of separation between the front and rear of the cone. There's just too much cancellation going on. The port area and enclosure size looked fine to me.
Dr d flow on TH-cam has a printer that is capable of printing these boxes at full scale. Would be cool if the winner gets their design printed on a extra large printer. Other TH-camrs have very large printers, maybe ask one of them for a colab. Really enjoying all the new content.
I've seen a variant of this, where the woofer is mounted in the path of the port/horn. It CAN work, but the concept behind it is waaay beyond my understanding and skill level. Have we seen an 8th order, yet? I've always liked the idea of a port-loaded port with a ported port inside a port. Port-ception!
I did wonder about something similar but either having the sub towards the end of the port or have the port mouth open infront of the sub. I've had a few ideas that I wanted to test though the cost of me testing them, I would have been building them to run to scale using as 8" Rockford oldschool sub I have. But effectively asking it to go deeper than it can reasonably do efficiently..
This kind of reminds me of the Bose Acoustimass 3 series III subwoofer, minus the slotted port for the front. It's also a strange setup that employs a dual voice coil driver.
The camera is funny it's focused on the bottles behind you 🤣 I have a s21 and I have the hardest time getting it to focus and their supposed to be the best cameras.
I couldn't see the vent leading from the front side of the speaker to the larger vent until later in the video. Would it be useful to place the box model online and post a URL with the video?
Budget bass built a similar box that the port had dead air spots in the port . If you put bits of foam in the port it would show if it is ĺoading properly. I think there might be phase issues
Awesome vid as always. I can't submit a design but was wondering if you or anyone really could design a "aperiodic bi-chamber" or ABC enclosure to test? I have always wanted to play around with that design over the years. Thanks.
I always wanted to try an enclosure like that. It doesn't look promising. Maybe it would do better with more port area and play around a bit with where the sub is located on the port.
Yeah, I think the results would improve if the sub were mounted further away from the port entrance. As is, there's not much separation from the front and rear of the cone. I think it's causing a lot of cancelation.
I remember a guy with a blow through and I believe a w7 in a fifth order like this with a way bigger port. It sounded absolutely awful, wasn’t loud. But he won his watt class on “points”.
I had a good idea once i seen the design there was gonna be chuffing down low on the frequency bands maybe a wiideninv of the lines shortening or lengthening may make is slight better kind of a 1 note wonder
It’s closer to a tapped horn. Except it had a large chamber behind the driver. You’d need to use HornResp program to get this to be tuned correctly, high chance this would sound like garbage scaled up without getting the enclosure design dialed in
I always wondered what a box that rather then porting it just drill a bunch of holes in the area of where the port would be on. A slot port on the end on the front and side with the internal port board there solid I probably didn't explain that where anyone can see what im talking about
Can someone please make a pórted + horn hybrid box , tuned to 20hz to make it flat frequency response . I would like to see how it works for a 12inch Lf driver.
Yeah, I've been playing with that. The problem I've run into is getting the horn to properly load the enclosure down to 198 and also fit inside the build volume
5th order XDD Just think about air flow alone. If the sub goes to '-V DC' the airflow from inside will want to push out the port and the cone face will be pulling in from the port + box interior. idk just seems a bit silly.
As always awesome content audio video tutorial commentary demo editing unbias testing. Id really wish you considered collaborating with Derek Big D Wiz Dick Rickulous Williston Audio Labs on giving a straight forward opinion on each & every amp dyno for viewers / fans. You 2 are well respected YT contributors.
i did collab with him exactly in this way a couple of years back, but i dont think it boosted the videos value enough to be worth it from his/audiences perspective :)
Can you also do a sealed box at the appropriate volume….. Seems silly to submit that as a design. ….be great to see what the most basic of box can do….. Also, it would be great to see you mount the cone to the car/test bed. Essentially infinite baffle. Obviously it won’t handle the 15-20 watts you throw at the driver in a box maybe 3-4 watts tops, but either way, I’d expect an IB design to do very well (and flat in theory) down to 25hz. Again, seems silly to send you a photo of the driver only but no box 😆 Of all the designs, they are the two (IB & Sealed) I would be most interested in seeing, as they are claimed to give the best audiophile performance 😉
I will do sealed yes! Not sure how I can do IB without cutting a hole and ruining test cabin... Maybe at the end of the series lol... But remember this simulates single 12, in IB is not gonna do much, minimum need 18 or two 15... 😁
This box isn't for db contests... This box is designed for sound quality... I know because I've got four JL 10s in a proper fifth order box. Your box isn't really proper.
The worst performer, defiantly a bust...This would be great to try with different walled setups to see how it can perform before building a full sized wall in a vehicle.
The enclosure isn't a fifth order. A Fifth order would require a second port and the area the front wave is playing into, (low side) should be 12-16 sq" of port area firing into the same chamber the rear wave of the driver is playing into, and vented into the atmosphere with a final port (high side).
@@blakebrockhaus347 can you explain? The loading arrangement makes it a 4th order bass reflex. (Edit: Putting the sub in the port, only changes the placement and environment. There has to be one more component for it to be a 5th order. Can you explain the order count that you got that makes it a fifth?
@@mikehonda7934 the rear wave behaves the same as a 4th order bass reflex, but then the front wave is clearly having some port/tline interactions as well. I think it's probably closer to a 4th order in real world performance, but it should theoretically be a 5th order design.
@@blakebrockhaus347 I just edited my last message explaining my theory. Yeah, acoustic orders are fun. It’s an issue I’m still figuring out with my passive radiator design. I want to do a 6th order bass reflex but don’t know what placement I want to put the radiator.
Everyone is wrong, LOL. First of all, I don't think there are any "5th order" passive speaker alignments that consist of just a driver and a box. They are all even orders, e.g. 2nd (sealed), 4th (vented or 4th order bandpass), 6th (series tuned or parallel-tuned bandpass), etc. To get into why would require a whole long discussion about equivalent circuits and filters which I'm not going to get into here, LOL. To make it easy, to determine the correct "order" for a build, assuming that it's a well-designed one, just count the number of major impedance peaks within or near the system's passband. For a sealed system, there's one peak, so it's 2nd order. For a vented or 4th order bandpass system, there are two major peaks, so 4th order. For a series or parallel-tuned 6th order bandpass system, there are three major peaks, so 6th order. For THIS particular system, the layout suggests an offset-driver 6th order series-tuned design, with the rear volume venting into a front chamber that's in turn vented to the outside. However, it's not an optimized design as can be seen by the impedance curve, and it seems to be behaving more like a 4th order system.
Best Series on TH-cam…
Hey buddy
straight up . saludos desde México 🇲🇽thank you for this series I honestly learn so much!
Even though the enclosure was a bad performer, still loved the concept. One bad thing about it is the restrictive output with such a thin port and sub hidden.
Great vid! Glad your issue with the laptop was fixed.
Hey 👋
Yeah, I think this could be improved pretty easily
Move the sub closer to port exit and with the correct flare you can get a combo sealed and ported box.
Glad you're up and running. I know this one didn't do well but its good to see what works and what doesn't. I know I have crazy ideas for this kind of stuff so seeing a real test is great. Thank you for the videos man.
Same thing, but mount the sub at the end of the port at an angle, making more of a horn style flair at the end. Maybe.
This series is wicked! ❤
First thing I thought of when I saw the design was "cancellation". There's virtually no separation between the front and rear of the cone, so they tend to cancel out and you get very low spl levels. Sure enough, very low output. It's still cool to see these designs tested, though.
This is a great series Sam. I hope we see a traditional style horn loaded box soon.
I love this series. Keep them coming I should send a design. This will help people understand and decide what kind of box to use in there builds awesome 👍
I love it when people experiment with sound ❤
Hexibass is so smart I love his channel he is the guru of enclosures hands down.
at 6:30 ish, what you are hearing is a "subharmonic" it can be created by playing a note, and its perfect fifth together. these 2 notes have a ratio of 2:3, and create a new note with a ratio of 1. one octave below the fundamental.
this is how small speakers can add harmonics to make it sound like they have more bass, and why fifth chords (power chords) sound so full on a guitar. you can even sing a subharmonic by yourself with enough practice.
upon watching further, this is exactly what is happening. the waveform looks like a subharmonic, and you can see the new "harmonic" sneak up between the fundamental and the first harmonic at the same time the subharmonic shows up on the rta graph.
i have no explination as why its producing the fifth, but the fifth is what is causing the subharmonic.
the cancelation of the woofers front wave and rear wave really hurt that design but very cool that you tested this :)
What a great person to let u burrow a dats system to keep the series rolling. This is the funnest thing ive seen since a dyno video.
Forever ago, Pioneer marketed the TS-WX50 which was a prepackaged subwoofer that fit inside a spare tire rim so you could keep your spare and have at least a hint of bass in the car. It used a similar design where the driver played into the vent. Very neat design but I don't know how one would model it properly. Thanks for the test!
There are videos that showed how it only worked inside a steel spare because that was part of the original design.
The issue is the acoustic short path in this printed design. If you note.. the pioneer wheel sub had the driver pretty much right at the outer mouth of the vent. Pioneer also used resonators to solve/mask some of this design's issues. The printed box shown in the vid has the woofer placed right at the throat of the port meaning the short path is next to nothing... regardless of the air volume of the cab. Xx
Oh, no diss on the Pioneer piece. I sold them back in the day and they were just the right thing for lots of people. I always thought it a clever design
try to seal the back chamber. In finland we have one transporter with subs in sealed breathing trough a ”t-line” doing crazy numbers in PD
Another great video. Glad your back up and running.
This series ROCKS!!
Good to see the best show on earth is back !!!!!!!!!!!!! Glad everything worked out and a great choice of enclosure this week.. Like the idea, he should evolve it to a V2 with a Horn!!! I would guess this is a 3rd order. I think a 5th order has 1 sealed side with 2 ported sides (example: 4th order within a ported 2nd chamber around it all then tuned). 7th order has (example: 6th order within a ported 2nd chamber around it all then tuned ) Would be interesting to confirm from others the right Formula orders.
Hexi Base probably has a video on it.
@@riveralley I Hope to see him Submit a response to this challenge & Brief.
Very cool, I'm very liking this serie. That could be nice to try some pro audio subwoofer design such as esw1018 or Wbin...
Hexi base kind of touched on what your doing here in his last video. He makes a statement about you can’t scale frequencies like you are. He is quick with it. It’s in his video where he shows his workflow and his cabin simulation and goes through a range of enclosures orders. Might be worth reaching out to him via email and pick his brain.
What he said was very different. He means you cant take a design for a 15" sub that plays 25-40hz in a certain way, and scale it down to a 6.5" box that also plays 25-40hz in a certain way. What I am doing is completely different because the frequencies are scaling as well with the enclosure. Its just fluid dynamics. Hexi is absolutely correct in what he said but it doesnt relate to this series :)
I just like the shout out to HexiBase!
Toby audio made a legendary 5 order speakers
Love the videos. Please turn your old box into a sealed so we can get a reference with a sealed. Thanks!
That octave below that is being added on the 270hz is like having a built in Audio Control Epicenter.
love it man,keep it up,I have a request,can you measure the frequency response with rew and show it in the video,it would really give some insight as to what's going on
You had a freak cosmic storm of free radicals bombard your laptop and dats only lol xx
Glad to see BoB back!
Based on the relatively small port area and small enclosure size I didn't expect much.
I think the lack of output had more to do with the lack of separation between the front and rear of the cone. There's just too much cancellation going on. The port area and enclosure size looked fine to me.
By testing with higher frequencies you get around that
Great video love this series
Dr d flow on TH-cam has a printer that is capable of printing these boxes at full scale. Would be cool if the winner gets their design printed on a extra large printer. Other TH-camrs have very large printers, maybe ask one of them for a colab. Really enjoying all the new content.
Seen it work with the woofer closer to the port exit
Yeah, so with more separation from the front and rear of the cone.
Top video as always 👌
I've seen a variant of this, where the woofer is mounted in the path of the port/horn. It CAN work, but the concept behind it is waaay beyond my understanding and skill level.
Have we seen an 8th order, yet? I've always liked the idea of a port-loaded port with a ported port inside a port. Port-ception!
Glad B.O.B. is back!
It’s back!!!! Get the equipment fix did yah sam?
Great job. I suggest trying to make acoustic design with a passive radiator. It would be interesting)
What type of radiator could he use?
@@JasonWW2000 take one from a bluetooth speaker
could work well i would assume 2:1 cone:port area would be a good starting point to avoid chuffing.
I did wonder about something similar but either having the sub towards the end of the port or have the port mouth open infront of the sub. I've had a few ideas that I wanted to test though the cost of me testing them, I would have been building them to run to scale using as 8" Rockford oldschool sub I have. But effectively asking it to go deeper than it can reasonably do efficiently..
This kind of reminds me of the Bose Acoustimass 3 series III subwoofer, minus the slotted port for the front. It's also a strange setup that employs a dual voice coil driver.
The camera is funny it's focused on the bottles behind you 🤣 I have a s21 and I have the hardest time getting it to focus and their supposed to be the best cameras.
Yeah I noticed after I finished, sooo annoying 😩😩😩
I own a dats v3 over a year now and i never regreded buying it it helped me out so often
Great video 😎
I couldn't see the vent leading from the front side of the speaker to the larger vent until later in the video. Would it be useful to place the box model online and post a URL with the video?
Budget bass built a similar box that the port had dead air spots in the port . If you put bits of foam in the port it would show if it is ĺoading properly. I think there might be phase issues
Awesome vid as always. I can't submit a design but was wondering if you or anyone really could design a "aperiodic bi-chamber" or ABC enclosure to test? I have always wanted to play around with that design over the years. Thanks.
got one in the submissions! :)
I always wanted to try an enclosure like that. It doesn't look promising. Maybe it would do better with more port area and play around a bit with where the sub is located on the port.
Yeah, I think the results would improve if the sub were mounted further away from the port entrance. As is, there's not much separation from the front and rear of the cone. I think it's causing a lot of cancelation.
I remember a guy with a blow through and I believe a w7 in a fifth order like this with a way bigger port. It sounded absolutely awful, wasn’t loud. But he won his watt class on “points”.
Makes me think everyone needs to just go wild and create some crazy SHIT! ;D
Kind of sounds like them Charlie Brown voices womp womp womp womp womp 😂
What leads so far a tuned horn enclosure is hard to beat when done correctly
looks like it would be more of a tapped horn topology... but slot ported like a t-line
I had a good idea once i seen the design there was gonna be chuffing down low on the frequency bands maybe a wiideninv of the lines shortening or lengthening may make is slight better kind of a 1 note wonder
It’s closer to a tapped horn. Except it had a large chamber behind the driver. You’d need to use HornResp program to get this to be tuned correctly, high chance this would sound like garbage scaled up without getting the enclosure design dialed in
I always wondered what a box that rather then porting it just drill a bunch of holes in the area of where the port would be on. A slot port on the end on the front and side with the internal port board there solid I probably didn't explain that where anyone can see what im talking about
Wonder what a scaled model of a w7 HO enclosure would sound like compared to the others we've seen
yeah... some interaction with the tapped port not playing too nicely with resonant of the box/port...
If you want to hide a sub a down firing sealed or ported is the easiest and best way to accomplish that. Sometimes simple is better
Can someone please make a pórted + horn hybrid box , tuned to 20hz to make it flat frequency response . I would like to see how it works for a 12inch Lf driver.
Yeah, I've been playing with that. The problem I've run into is getting the horn to properly load the enclosure down to 198 and also fit inside the build volume
Hell yeah ❤
That’s a 4th order bandpass. Sealed back chamber. Ported front chamber. It’s just shaped funky.
The performance is similar to a open baffle no? Just a weird shape open baffle
Not enough isolation between front and back of driver
5th order XDD Just think about air flow alone. If the sub goes to '-V DC' the airflow from inside will want to push out the port and the cone face will be pulling in from the port + box interior. idk just seems a bit silly.
Think you hit the brown note!
This box should be called the Epicenter because it adds half the fundamental.
Is that still a bandpass then? Since the speaker is inside the box?
Series-tuned 6th order bandpass. Looks terribly undersized though.
hello can u send us the link of the music?
Very cool!
(( capacitance + coil ) to ground ) = 2 orders. This is how you count orders
That was interesting might be able to work if it was a little different
Thank you so much to the good samaritan
Hexibass is a smart fella
lol.... so much for the goof ball 5th order
5ths work in some cases but this enclosure is likely improperly scaled
Do you have any links or resources?
I've got 18 3's in my trunk!
Naaannnnnn your laptop is dead... btw we have the same laptop lmao RIP little legion Y540 😭😂
Would you ever consider a floatplane account?
Yeah maybe
Example of a windly low htz set up
Damn…it got straight trashcan status!
As always awesome content audio video tutorial commentary demo editing unbias testing.
Id really wish you considered collaborating with Derek Big D Wiz
Dick Rickulous Williston Audio Labs
on giving a straight forward opinion on each & every amp dyno for viewers / fans.
You 2 are well respected YT contributors.
i did collab with him exactly in this way a couple of years back, but i dont think it boosted the videos value enough to be worth it from his/audiences perspective :)
Move the driver nearer to the mouth and tapper the mouth a little
can somebody make "MINIRIG" type sub.... and see how it sounds
Kid friendly, he means not theft.
I guess you demonstrated why fifth order boxes aren’t a thing 😅
I have a crazy good design that's very similar to that so if you have any interest in dimensions for 12 I can hook you up
How do you design a 5th order enclosure and do the calculations?
Can you also do a sealed box at the appropriate volume….. Seems silly to submit that as a design.
….be great to see what the most basic of box can do…..
Also, it would be great to see you mount the cone to the car/test bed. Essentially infinite baffle. Obviously it won’t handle the 15-20 watts you throw at the driver in a box maybe 3-4 watts tops, but either way, I’d expect an IB design to do very well (and flat in theory) down to 25hz. Again, seems silly to send you a photo of the driver only but no box 😆
Of all the designs, they are the two (IB & Sealed) I would be most interested in seeing, as they are claimed to give the best audiophile performance 😉
I will do sealed yes! Not sure how I can do IB without cutting a hole and ruining test cabin... Maybe at the end of the series lol... But remember this simulates single 12, in IB is not gonna do much, minimum need 18 or two 15... 😁
10:54 this is the correct song th-cam.com/video/pLAkjLKjL08/w-d-xo.html i spent a good while trying to find it lol
Ahh thanks for that!
@@barevids you’re welcome 😁
Allllmost a tapped horn.
Wish someone would submit a legit tapped though. 🤞
This box isn't for db contests... This box is designed for sound quality... I know because I've got four JL 10s in a proper fifth order box.
Your box isn't really proper.
This specific box is for farts 😁
yet again there are harmonics generated by the high frequency bouncing around the enclosure
That's actually a poorly designed series tuned 6th order
Bespoke amplifier by Barevids 🤔🙄
Amplifiers designed by you & built in Korea or Japan.
one day maybe :)
The worst performer, defiantly a bust...This would be great to try with different walled setups to see how it can perform before building a full sized wall in a vehicle.
its a 4th order
Oof
a quick thumsup for @hexibase 😁
The enclosure isn't a fifth order. A Fifth order would require a second port and the area the front wave is playing into, (low side) should be 12-16 sq" of port area firing into the same chamber the rear wave of the driver is playing into, and vented into the atmosphere with a final port (high side).
No it is a 5th order design. There are lots of ways to achieve a specific enclosure order.
@@blakebrockhaus347 can you explain? The loading arrangement makes it a 4th order bass reflex. (Edit: Putting the sub in the port, only changes the placement and environment. There has to be one more component for it to be a 5th order. Can you explain the order count that you got that makes it a fifth?
@@mikehonda7934 the rear wave behaves the same as a 4th order bass reflex, but then the front wave is clearly having some port/tline interactions as well. I think it's probably closer to a 4th order in real world performance, but it should theoretically be a 5th order design.
@@blakebrockhaus347 I just edited my last message explaining my theory. Yeah, acoustic orders are fun. It’s an issue I’m still figuring out with my passive radiator design. I want to do a 6th order bass reflex but don’t know what placement I want to put the radiator.
Everyone is wrong, LOL.
First of all, I don't think there are any "5th order" passive speaker alignments that consist of just a driver and a box. They are all even orders, e.g. 2nd (sealed), 4th (vented or 4th order bandpass), 6th (series tuned or parallel-tuned bandpass), etc. To get into why would require a whole long discussion about equivalent circuits and filters which I'm not going to get into here, LOL.
To make it easy, to determine the correct "order" for a build, assuming that it's a well-designed one, just count the number of major impedance peaks within or near the system's passband. For a sealed system, there's one peak, so it's 2nd order. For a vented or 4th order bandpass system, there are two major peaks, so 4th order. For a series or parallel-tuned 6th order bandpass system, there are three major peaks, so 6th order.
For THIS particular system, the layout suggests an offset-driver 6th order series-tuned design, with the rear volume venting into a front chamber that's in turn vented to the outside. However, it's not an optimized design as can be seen by the impedance curve, and it seems to be behaving more like a 4th order system.
That sounded so horrible. I had to turn it off. 🤣