The Metroid 2 Trilogy - AM2R vs Samus Returns vs Metroid 2
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 มิ.ย. 2024
- Ever since Metroid: Samus Returns came out, I've wanted to get my thoughts out about it and how it compares to both the original Metroid 2: Return of Samus, and AM2R: Another Metroid 2 Remake. It's taken a long time to get everything together, and this video is what came of it.
TABLE OF CONTENTS
Introduction - 0:00:00
The Big Picture - 0:03:35
Combat - 0:09:15
The Metroids - 0:23:00
The Bosses - 0:57:38
Exploration - 1:17:01
The Story - 1:36:45
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How AM2R and Samus Returns remade Metroid 2 _ Game Maker's Toolkit: • How AM2R and Samus Ret...
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I didn't know you could spider-spark the Queen in MSR, I'll try that out whenever I play it again.
And I fully agree with you, playing the 3 games is a great experience.
Thank you very much for producing such a detailed analysis of these games.
And thank YOU (and everyone involved) for AM2R!
You can also morph ball between her front legs.
Same here, I didn't know that either and died 10 times!
I didn't know you could blow up the queen from the inside in AM2R! when she caught me in her mouth I just unloaded a ton of missiles in there till it was done, lol
Next to Super Metroid AM2R is truly the best sequel made in it's franchise.
It's thee only game that can truly hold a candle upto what is undoubtedly the best game ever made in video game history which is Super Metroid.
In morph ball mode in AM2R you can actually see Samus turning around....detail bro detail 😉
The dev has ALOT to be proud of.
He accomplished immortality.
When Super Metroid is mentioned you KNOW AM2R is going to come up.
Not Prime not Fusion but AM2R!
I know this is super late but I just wanted to mention:
something Samus Returns did that apparently most people didn't pick up on is Color Coding. a few hours in I realized that the game was very consistent with how it colored intractable objects. The bombable rocks are always pink, for example. Once I realized this, I quickly figured out that anything pink is weak to bombs. So when the Diggernaut opens up his chest and uses his vacuum, you can see the pink light inside. Almost everything in the game works this way, especially context sensitive enemies and bosses.
Wow great catch!
That's the type of thing I tend to notice. Maybe when I get the game I should keep an eye out for.
Counterpoint: I have protanopia so color makes no difference. I'd much rather have design cues like Super Metroid did.
Just pointing out that AM2R wasn't a one man project. Tons of people worked on it, doing everything from art to writing the lore. Guasti was just the developer and the person who started the project.
Guasti did a little bit of everything
@@Lilhajxjk274there’s a little someone for everything
I’m going to start using samuses as my primary unit of measurement now
Its just inefficient to use any other means.
@@DPadGamer *cough cough* matpat *cough*
...Turn left in 52 samuses
@@jackhuber6835
The head north for about 40 samuses
Then, after going 628 samuses west, you'll see your destination.
Blinkehyo *sami
"Samuses squared" should be an official game-area measuring unit. lol
I would like to defend the Ridley appearance a bit.
1. The interconnection of Prime and Super with only a bit of cybernetics.
2. Explaining how he knew where to find the baby in Super.
3. You doubted that he could regenrate fast enough for Super. This is shown with the lack of visible damage and the discarded claw at the post-credits cutscene, which also ties Fusion in a bit.
I think the regeneration is unfeasible as well, can't agree there. He spent the prime trilogy decked out in metal, getting his ass beat twice, and then when he looks the least cybernetic in SR, he somehow heals almost immediately? It is never specified, but the baby metroid could not have been with Samus for too long. It's hard to think that the space of time between Metroid to Metroid 2 was shorter than the time between 2 and 3 for that reason alone. Prime is even stated to be quite a while after 1. Ridley was just barely brought back online when orpheon blows it seems.
It makes sense for him to have less cybernetics so close to Super, and it also makes sense for him to know where Samus was headed even if he also got beaten to hell in Returns if he somehow did miraculously heal after, which that discarded metal arm implies. It makes sense, but it does not seem feasible.
I love how both Zeta Metroids of the two remakes are complete opposites of one another’ with AM2R’s Zeta being very bulky and dinosaur-like, while Samus Returns’ Zeta being more slim and xenomorph-like.
After I played Samus Returns and AM2R, it felt like Mercurysteam looked at the original Metroid 2 and said "Well this doesn't work, let's change it into something that does," while Doctor M64 and his team looked at it and said "We get what they were going for, how do we better realize its potential?"
Big agree. This is honestly pushed even further now that Dread exists because THAT game shows how MercurySteams style REALLY works if they have the creative control they deserve.
The biggest flaw with Samus Returns was the retrofitting of a new gameplay style on the skeleton of an original gameboy game.
1:00:50 - "it gets to be realy unfair" - you must avoid these attacks by morph-balling between his legs similar to 0:45:05 in Samus Returns; so you can beat him without any damage at all.
P.S. Not sure if someone has already pointed to this.
Fun fact, I finished the Mummy Demastered around a month ago, and I saw DoctorM64 among the game's credits.
I was like "No shit !"
Ah, really? Well, that explains a lot.
"It's too gamey." Bruh, it's a game
Omega's ability to knock you out in AM2R comes from metroid fusion where when you face the zeta, everytime he hits you pretty hard, you get knocked out and samus gets stunned. luckily, you don't get chain stunned if he hits you again.
Calling something "required" when it isn't is a bit hyperbolic. It might have been required "...for you," but I didn't even know about this move and managed to take the Metroid Queen down. The criticisms in the video are mostly solid, just tone the hyperbole down a tad. :)
Good enemy design means that all damage should be avoidable. Knowing that advanced move is absolutely required to be able to avoid damage for that specific combo I mentioned. I beat the boss without it too, but took unavoidable damage because I didn't know about that ability at the time. No hyperbole here.
Admittedly this is the first video of yours I've watched so I guess I wasn't aware that was your definition. I'd imagine it would have to be possible without that move (despite being difficult), especially since there's a way to beat it without ever going inside its guts (which is auto-damage by default and is kinda bullshit I agree). But I would also conversely argue that in games where bosses can provide drops this isn't necessarily a requirement. If it was a game where bosses didn't drop health or use attacks that kill you in one hit I'd agree. Granted there's a debate to be had in terms of whether bosses dropping health because they're obscenely difficult is "okay" or not, but I feel it is an important distinction when discussing boss design. Admittedly I'm much more forgiving in this scenario because it's the final (er... was the final) boss, and I expect them to be stupidly difficult because otherwise where's the challenge? I feel like if the Queen had been really easy to defeat without taking damage all the criticisms would be about how the boss is "way too easy, anti-climactic after all this build-up". Devs stuck between a rock and a hard place, so they make her a worthy opponent that really screams "We're not fucking around anymore, this is the Queen and she's gonna wreck your shit," and the boss is less about being "defeated" and more about "surviving" the fight, which in this kind of climactic show-down is WAY more satisfying to me as a player. I beat her, holding onto that last sliver of health, and fist pump as she finally goes down! I DID IT! I SURVIVE THIS QUEEN!
I think this is "what the devs were thinking" as you put it. And for me, I'd rather that be the case then just hear about how this boss is "so easy" or "I'm supposed to believe THIS is the Queen evolution of the most dangerous monsters in the galaxy? Puh-leeeeeeeease!"
Kibate
All damage being avoidable does not mean victory is handed to you on a silver platter. No gamer is perfect and so they WILL take damage regardless. The point is that in a game where all damage is avoidable, then when you DO take damage, you KNOW it's your fault because all damage is avoidable if you're good enough. MSR isn't like that... AT ALL and that is what makes that part of the mechanic so flawed.
morph ball above or below the queen and you can avoid the damage...
@@jack8162 Unless the ground is on fire, the walls are on fire, and the ceiling is blocked by acid blobs.
In Samus Returns' Queen Metroid fight, you can just morph ball and hide under its arched neck and close to its body when it spits out the green orbs. I think it's the intended method as well, since in the last phase it switches it up and arches its neck the other way sometimes so you have to spider ball and hide over it in the ceiling instead (or maybe just continuously space jump to stay there). If you leave the spot at the right moment, after the green orbs are gone and before it charges forward, it's pretty reasonable to escape with no damage at all.
Aultimaespada1 thank you for saying those things because that's the same method I used. I though it wasn't hard to figure out that's what you had to do. I don't think the developers intended for the player to do that to beet the boss or to get around that move I think it was just for trying to 100 the game.
I don't think the developers intended "under the neck" stuff because when the queen metroid tries to blow you into the fire you still get blown when you're under the neck despite it being clear there's no wind to blow you.
Most of the fights are too easy. But sometimes fights are hard, which isn't fair
-ingeniousclown Gaming, 2017
There's a major difference between something being hard and something being designed in a way that makes you take damage in an unavoidable way.
Ok, that's fair. But, A) MOST (If not all) Metroid games have plenty of attacks that are next to impossible to dodge and B) I recall some unavoidable attacks in AM2R, the bullet hell boss in particular you aren't coming out of with out taking damage, but everything in SR was dodgeable, you can clear every fight in the game with no damage if you practice enough, which is the same as previous Metroid games. But in EVERY Metroid game your gonna take damage until you learn the boss patterns and it takes many many run throughs to manage it, more than you have played based on your own admissions of your playthroughs. Which, I've watched you play with your recording, I'm not sure what you're up to, but at least fire the ice beam not the plasma beam at the Alphas and Gammas.
Any way, point is, I'm not sure what you want, if they're easy, you complained, if they're hard and require practice and ingenuity to master, then they're unfair. If the boss had clear openings then they're 'too gamey' but if they're more animalistic and constantly charge, they're unfair. MAKE UP YOUR MIND.
You have plenty of valid criticisms in the video, but at no point was I sure what you wanted instead because you would say what you wanted, then talk about a boss that did do that and complain why what you wanted was annoying in that boss.
@Miria Jiyuu Yeah it's been a while since I watched this and I kind of forgot what my train of thought was at the time, but I seem to recall thinking what you said almost exactly. The bullet hell boss was actually my favorite in the game. Yes, some of its attacks were near-impossible to dodge, but it also shot missiles that you could destroy and use to replenish your health if you were skilled. This is some of my favorite type of enemy design, where battles become a long, drawn-out stamina match with you and the boss both wailing on each other until one finally falls. It has the same level of tension and investment as a Rocky boxing match, and I love it.
Also, a cool nuance of the near-unavoidable attacks is that they teach the player the importance of minimizing damage as opposed to just dodging it altogether. There are times when an attack is coming at you and you might make the strategic decision to just eat it and use your invincibility frames to move to a better defensive position. That’s just neat.
@@alexchacon778
I love your comment. I agree with virtually everything you said. I'm not sure if the bullet hell boss was my favorite, but it was without question the boss that is most vivid in my memory, and for the very reasons you described.
I'll add on that these types of fights open up different tactical styles as options. You can play it very safe, trying to avoid damage as much as possible. You can go balls to the wall and blitz the boss, trying to kill it as fast as possible. Or you can do something more in the middle. Either way there are decisions being made by the player to balance damage being done with damage being taken. These kinds of fights can be a lot more interesting than your standard "figure out the pattern and execute" type of fight.
Dark souls is realistic and fair, and really hard. I really wouldn't want a souls-like metroid, but i made my point
so, i know this video is kind of old now, but am2r has recieved fan updates and is currently on version 1.5. many of the issues talked about in this video have been fixed or slightly altered and it is now a much better experience. i recommend anyone that likes metroid to give it a shot, it is an amazing experience.
Both times I've played through AM2R, years apart, I had zero trouble getting 100% item collection. :) And that Queen fight?! Absolutely amazing. LOVE THIS GAME!
For someone who played all these games over and over, listening to this it sounds as though you hated about 85% of it. Lol. I agree with some criticisms, but as someone who enjoys these games, I also felt it was kind of exhausting and overly negative.
Personally, AM2R was my favorite of the three but I found things to like/love about of them. That doesn't mean any of them are perfect, but I think by focusing so overwhelmingly on complaining about the things you dislike and hate, this sounds less like a review and more a rant about "which game is less annoying and gamey." It sounds like you were being tortured while playing these.
n00bfish
There's enough overly positive reviews in the universe about this game. But very few honest negative reviews.
Complains that a boss was hard and annoying then 3 bosses later complains that the boss was too easy and "gamey"...........
Completely agreed.
@@Collidedatoms I don't think it's about being one or the other it is about how you make your point.
@@Vvonter normally I would agree with you but in this case I find MSR to be quite horrific as far as metroid games go. They could have been more faithful and made the game more fun even with their gimmicky new features but they were too proud and missed the boat. My comment was on the fact that it's galling that pretty much every review you can find basically tells those who dislike it to shove it because the game is amazaballs nevermind that it's not. It was refreshing to see a reviewer who didn't just mindlessly hype the game like everyone else giving it undeserved accolades because I don't believe it deserves such universal positive press. It's a crappy game. But sadly, the market and game awards rewarded it for its crappiness and now those crappy misfeatures are likely to appear in future metroid games.
AM2R is my favourite Metroid game
Nin Gamer same
As far as I'm concerned, AM2R is the real remake and Samus Returns is fan fiction.
AM2R is my second favorite. Nothing, not even Prime 1, can come close to Super Metroid. I still absolutely love AM2R, and it will have a permanent place on every PC I have in the future.
@@Sparkypaws1
Super Metroid is the BEST game ever made.
No question, no debate, no argument period.
It is thee game!
@@Sparkypaws1
I would agree 👍 with AM2R coming in second, then Prime third. In that order.
Disclaimer: I don't hate your video, I respect the time you put into it, and do not think you are a horrible person or anything like that.
I am really bothered by your assessment of the metroids. I can't figure out what you want. The Zetas in AM2R are clearly the most animalistic by rushing you, and basically go insane, but you hate it, and yet you continue to attack the metroids that act more boss-like instead. Then, with the Queens, you praise the AM2R Queen, but berate the SR Queen. You say Samus Return's Queen doesn't act smart, even though she clearly uses all of her abilities to kill you. You also completely ignored how the AM2R Queen was invincible until she tries to smash you with her head. If AM2R's Queen was so smart, she would NEVER head butt you.
My main problem is that you ask for a more realistic fight, but complain about unfairness. Unfair fights are realistic, so I think I'm missing the point. If it's not fair, it's realistic, and if it is fair, it's too boss-like. In fact, the most realistic, animal-like fight would be if the 3-ton Omega Metroid rushed you into a corner and sat on you till you died. So that "realistic" fight doesn't translate well to games.
I wanted to mention that Ridley showing up randomly is entirely the point. I've heard many people write it off as fan-service, but I feel these critics fail to realize that Ridley has always implemented himself into each game unprompted. He shows up, explains why he's important through context, and then a great fight happens. He forces himself into the story, there's not much different in this case either.
@@fenrirtherrowdy8796 Nah that's just an Ridley's inconsistency that occurs throughout the series itself
@@fenrirtherrowdy8796 i think sakamoto denied prime canon around the time other M was conceived and then unfortunately birthed. but with prime 4 announced i dont really think nintendo cares what sakamoto thinks even if he still wants to believe prime is non canon. doesnt really matter what he thinks really, the prime spin-offs are the most bankable metroid games. period. they wouldnt make a prime game if it wasnt canon.
First time I've seen someone with the same opinion as me regarding Ridley lol. I love Ridley, I think he's awesome. That's exactly why I cringe every time I see him shoe-horned into every single Metroid release. It really makes each occurrence less exciting/monumental.
I found this video difficult to finish. He contradicts himself so much.
Fenrir the Rrowdy give em a year or two, they’ll make it all canon
Now we hope to see F-Zero come back
"Wouldn't the officially licensed title win every time?"
The argument of someone who has not played the masterpiece that is AM2R.
the argument of a fortnite bitch kid that posts in the comments that his game is a shit game because it's 2d AND single player
@@hiiambarney4489 fortnite bad?!?! Wow what a unique and interesting opinion
Eh, both AM2R and MSR have their positives and negatives. Neither are perfect.
No, AM2R is not that good. Its visuals, while good, are often broken and the game is not concerned with obeying the lore in a series made with the lore as a foundation. I HAVE played both, but AM2R was a buggy mess that almost fried my computer and is more than a bit unfinished compared to Samus Returns, which does everything AM2R did right better in my opinion.
Edit: AM2R fixes little things, like the temples, but it doesn't fix the big issues, like the backlighting or the bad metroid encounters. It keeps the one with 6 metroids in a room. Fangame or not, it's inexcusable to look past the flaws of a broken, old game and then pad it even more with meaningless additions.
To make this as clear as possible, I love Zero Mission. That works cause metroid 1 could be so good. Metroid 2 was not that good in my opinion. I think it was, at best, just OK. So, it needed a reboot like Samus Returns more than a faithful, warts-and-all port like AM2R. Even on that front AM2R fails since Zero Mission fixed so much of Metroid 1 that was left untouched in AM2R, making it feel like a 1988 game in 2016.
@@magicowlofbacon9416 broken? Damn, what version were you playing? What do you mean broken? And, it almost fried your PC? Mine ran it just fine, which is surprising, because it slogs a bit while trying to run a 3D game. As for the lore, what do you mean? What parts of the lore is it ignoring? It seemed to respect these things fine. But, I'm no expert on Metroid lore. Could you please elucidate me on these fronts? What visual bugs are you experiencing? What parts of the lore are ignored?
As for the Metroid encounters, yeah, I can see them becoming a bit repetitive, and while Alphas and Gammas are still quite similar to their original counterparts, the Zetas and the Omegas are a whole different beast. As in, they actually respect gravity now 😂 but seriously though, I do find it quite cathartic to fight these alien bugs. While at the beginning of the game, I was struggling to fight a single Alpha, later I could manage against 5 of them (oh yeah, the encounter is against 5, not 6)! Not only that, but the fights are still relatively interesting, not just in the variety of hazards in the arenas, but the Metroids themselves. The Alphas are mostly the same, but they can also ram into you and, later on, dodge your attacks. The Gammas still have their lightning bolts, but they can grab you and sap you of your health if you're not on your toes. The ones in the Breeding Grounds under the Industrial Complex are also shrouded in the darkness, making them even tougher and, actually kinda panic inducing. The Zetas, oof, these guys are a beast, they walk around, they ram you, spit acid, throw claw attacks, these bastards are vicious. It actually makes the Omegas a bit tamer in comparison, due to the patch. They are still no cakewalk, as it's actually tougher to aim if you're using regular Missiles. The Larvae are as creepy as usual, and the Queen goes above and beyond to absolutely slaughter you. They're not as involved or action packed as the ones in Samus Returns, of course not, but that game was also much more focused in the swashbuckling aspect of the original game, more action-oriented, though they still don't feel too different from the ones in AM2R, at least from what I observed, save for the Melee Counter of course. On the other hand, they are still more tough and elaborate than the ones in the original game (as these were more of a thing to check from the list, where the challenge was finding them), and that could make the encounters feel even more repetitive. But still, I don't see them being worse, and I do see them as being quite cathartic and awesome, but that's just my opinion. Are these the reasons why you're not so fond of these fights in AM2R?
Disagree completely with the counter mechanic criticism and "having to" wait for a counter to move through the game. The most effective combo in the game early on is an uncharged ice shot and a missile shot (or a melee hit if you are that close). Quick shots with the Ice Beam freezes the enemy even when it's about to charge at you and the missile literally one shots everything in a frozen state that is not a Metroid or a boss (yes, even the shelled enemies die from this). With the amount of missiles you can acquire in Samus Returns, this is by far the best strategy until you get upgrades that allow you to shoot through walls with beams that are nearly as wide as Samus' height.
The only enemies you ever truly "need" to use the counter for effectively are the Metroids, and the mechanic is only aiding you in the feeling of mastering the combat mechanics, since you are awarded by speeding through each encounter very quickly by landing your combos. The combat in Samus Returns is actually pretty varied all things considered and is certainly not just a "stand still and wait" type of game. Just because you decided to do so most of the game speaks more about your inability to explore Samus' combat arsenal rather than the design of the game itself.
Frozen Death Knight except the game really discourages you from using it by seperating it out and nerfing it. If a single shot froze as long as the charged ice shot then I would agree with your mitigation of the counter mechanic. But remember, you're trying to mitigate the core mechanic of the game, that itself is the problem.
Additionally he's absolutely right that since moving ruins your free kill shot, that the game discourages you from moving for the melee counter. Really he's absolutely correct about the criticisms of samus returns. They could have done so much better.
The game teaches you how to play it through rewards and punishments. It punishes you for playing it or wanting to play it any other way than the way MS wanted you to.
You're supposed to be freezing them as your about to pass into melee counter range, without relying on free aim, You can aim in front of Samus while running to achieve this often. It does not work on shelled enemies reliably though.
I do agree with some of his criticisms, not so much on others, but that's how opinions work :P
I'm going to be honest; it's a little hard to swallow a critique of something in a 2d platformer as 'too gamey' when the entire layout of the very world itself is so inherently unrealistic.
100% agreed
I agree totally!!! I loved this simple review until all those criticisms
Sorry man but you're wrong about the Queen fight in Samus Returns. The spider boost is never required at all to avoid those attacks. You can easily avoid them by learning where each green orb is going to be and how she performs her attacks. The green orbs aren't random. They have set paths they move in. The fact that you can spider boost to her face and stop the attack is merely a little extra for those who try it. I never once needed it nor used it against her. I'm not perfect and I can't do a "no damage" run but the difficulty you talk about in her combo moves is exaggerated at best. I've already beat the game 6 times and I'm going for my first Fusion run and I know that even for the Fusion run I won't NEED the spider boost to protect myself from those attacks.
Going back to the melee counter problem you discussed, I feel that that's a problem with the players and not the design of the mechanic. Players feel the need to do it because, as you said, enemies are sponges in this game. But I've actually found it fun to NOT use it unless I need it to avoid getting hit. I've made it into a habit to just attack enemies like any old Metroid game and counter if a hit is coming, I rarely just stand there. The beam in this game is really fast unlike the Ice Beam in Metroid Prime. You can spam it so fast you can kill enemies as fast as you could in previous Metroids. You just need to aim good. Also we players need to remember that missiles are a thing and they do damage when your beam doesn't and they do, I think, 5x more than a single beam shot.
Also, I know this is stupid but, Serris isn't a native to SR388 as Sector 4 houses sea life and SR388 doesn't have sea areas unlike Zebes and other planets in the series. The BSL Station isn't only for researching SR388. In fact the BSL only has one sector dedicated to SR388 and it's Sector 1, SRX, even the name implies it to be SR388. Just a nitpick about AM2R there.
Now about the Diggernaut, you can use the Phase Shift to destroy all 3 nodes in a single round if you're fast enough. It's not that easy to pull off actually but possible. And I'm not sure but I think if you're using the Lightning Shield and you're already clinging onto the face of the DIggernaut when it electrifies you won't get knocked off or damaged. It happened to me twice but I always jump off instinctively so I'm not 100% sure about it and I always forget to test it.
Talking about Ridley now. You said it made no sense as to how Ridley recovered so fast by the time Super happens but you have to remember that there are games in the timeline before Metroid 2 and after Metroid Zero Mission. I know the video is about Metroid 2 but within the context we can't ignore the previous games in the timeline. At the near end of Prime 3 Ridley was fully corrupted with Phazon. Phazon enhances healing and who heals faster than Wolverine? Ridley does. Take note that Ridley in Samus Returns is half and half. Half mechanical and half biological. He's healed parts of his body and has discarded a lot of his cybernetics. At the end of Samus Returns in the post credits you can see Ridley's metal claw and he's nowhere to be found.
Also Ridley hates Samus. Why wouldn't he follow her just to end her? Or he could have been sent there to get Metroids and encounters Samus and a larva. There could be a lot of reasons but the fact that Ridley is at the end of this game makes his appearance at the start of Super make a lot more sense now. He's there because he now knows that that is the very last Metroid in the galaxey and Big Mamma wants it.
Back to the ending of Samus Returns. It kind of makes sense for their to be so many enemies. Metroid are voracious but they're actually much more in their larval state and through out the game you only encounter Alphas and above until you reach the rooms before the Queen. Not to mention that the Metroids were created on SR388. They're a part of the ecosystem now and while on other planets the Metroid grow even more dangerous just like any other invasive species does when introduced to an ecosystem that wasn't tailored to include them. Yeah, Metroids were genetically engineered and created but over the years the ecosystem adapted to them. Also the rooms that Metroids are contained in are devoid of all life but once you kill the Metroid the room is once again filled with various lifeforms when you return. They do kill and eat a lot but they don't seem to go too much out of their way to obliterate the planet of all life. Much unlike the next point.
If anything the X Parasites are what would cause SR388 to be devoid of life and this is reflected upon in Metroid Fusion in Sector 1. There's very little enemies in that sector. Going back to the ending having enemies while you run with the infant is kind of climatic in a sense. You just spent a good solid chunk of time murdering this entire race of creatures only to spare one baby for reasons. You now have to protect it. I know mechanically you don't because the baby doesn't take damage but that's the feeling I get from it and this is further solidified by the Ridley fight. The entire ending creates a sense of bonding with the baby that none of the other two games does.
You spare it. It helps you escape the planet but you keep it safe and when Ridley shows up to ruin your day the baby saves you from certain death only in turn for you to save it by defeating Ridley once again.
It's just as poetic as that silent contemplation you get from the original and AM2R endings.
Sorry if all of this is out of order, and long. It's 4am and my head is already fuzzy. I enjoyed your video man though I feel like you missed some points behind Samus Returns and gave it too much flak on some points that I don't think deserved it.
Cheers!
I like most of what you said, except about the queen. I can't back down on that. Back wall is on fire, green orbs are in the air, and she start setting the ground on fire. There's literally NOWHERE TO GO except to spider boost to the ceiling if you want to avoid damage. And "just turn on lightning armor" isn't a suitable solution. Remember, I never said spider sparking to her face was required, just that it mostly trivializes the fight... it's only required in that specific combo I mentioned. It doesn't matter how predictable the green orbs are, they're *far* too close together to be able to space jump yourself to safety. The only move that can protect you from damage is spidersparking to the ceiling. 53:49 for reference.
I tried to find a way to do it without spider boosting or lightning shield and there's just no way. I could have sworn that the back wall fire would dissipate by the time the Queen got close to covering the entire floor but I was wrong. I would like to point out though that for normal players it wouldn't really be a big deal, I guess. Those who dedicate 0 damage runs would know about the spider boost. Regardless, you're right. That's a faulty design there. Hidden abilities should never be required to avoid damage. Player skill should be sufficient.
I've beaten the Samus Returns Queen without taking damage or spider boosting (didn't even think to do it in the fight). All of her attack combinations are possible to avoid and take no damage. Granted I don't remember the exact sequence of attacks she used on that run (it's been a while since I played it), but I do remember beating it and taking no damage.
@@Mesyrr pics or it didn't happen
When first beat the metroid queen I didn't use the super bomb in her belly, I just iced her mouth until she went down.
Time to grab some popcorn, soda, and a bedpan. Great work Alex :]
Don't spill any of those!
Sometimes id rather watch a good 2 hour youtube vid like this than the crap Hollywood puts out these days
hey whats up
AM2R is easily my favorite Metroid game, and one of my three favorite games of all time - especially in v1.4.3, *_which has New Game+ and Random Game+, allowing you to play the game in any order you please and randomize various aspects of it,_* which ultimately results in _the_ Metroid experience. And Samus Returns is definitely up there with the rest of 'em for me. It kinda stands on its own, is its own spin on Metroid, and I enjoy that a lot.
AniGa wow wow wow WOW they put a New game plus in AM2R sorry it’s been awhile since I played and beat it on the 1.12 version I think but omg they really added more! 😳 I have to get my self another pc to upgrade my version is now outdated great
ps I love AM2R more then SR because it was literally the metroid 2 remake I wanted and imagined back in the day and it was the most respectful on a 1 on 1 map lay out with the original Nintendo however went way to far with SR to the point it doesn’t even resemble the original that much unlike AM2R and before all the SR fan heads rush in sorry but Nintendo took to long to put out and DRM64 beat them to the punch 🤛
God I wish I were good at Metroid games so I could actually enjoy Metroid games that aren’t Easy MSR
Fusion mode in 1.5 is HARD. I just beat it the other day.
@@MatyFattyDaddy just started Fusion Mode. Damn, man, I wanna break my phone already. Lol
@@supremalex3572 lmao right? It's so hard but Arachnis and Torizo become actual bosses that you have to learn patterns for. Can't tank through. Those were fun.
how many samuses big is our planet?
Approximately 96,000,000 Samuses cubed.
Pretty sure the correct plural of Samus is Sami.
@@bredincaptivity4692 That's a common misconception. Samus may, indeed be Latin-derived, but not all Latin nouns ending -us have plural -i. Samus is third declension, so its proper plural should indeed be Samuses (pron: sa-mus-sees)
*Note: I have no clue if Samus actually is Latin-derived, I'm just making a joke, based on actual fact. Additionally, I think that's the wrong ending for third declension, I think that's actually fourth. -i would be second though, I think.
@@Dr.SamCarterPhD I'm honestly not sure if I'm smarter or dumber for having read your post.
@@bredincaptivity4692 I read that in Slowbeef's Ridley voice, though I guess that would be Sammy instead lol.
I love the idea of this video and the time and effort that went into it, but the amount of times something along the lines of "I absolutely loved this, but I have many very serious problems with it" was said in this video really made it hard for me to appreciate the opinions and critique going on. There was so much nitpicking and negativity that it was a hard video to get through. I guess that's the point of a critique but I think more balancing was needed here.
I appreciate your more balanced critique vs some of the other comments here. This was my first time making something so long and comments like yours help me understand where I can improve in my writing style, so thanks.
ingeniousclown Gaming No problem! We all have room to grow and I’d look forward to seeing how your writing improves because I love a good Metroid analysis.
@@ingeniousclown Long form content is really hard to make, but my advice is definitely try to keep pacing in mind and don't repeat yourself too often.
@@ingeniousclown the negativity wasn't a problem. Critiques are all about pointing out flaws. You just need to make sure your video is watchable because it is really slow and long, most people don't have that kind of an attention span.
44:10
What *_IS_* a very good fight to you?
1:20:00
Or... You could not use it? And I get that you disagree with the idea that a power should be optional but... Like it is? Progression isn't any less confusing than it is in the other 2D Metroid games.
Awesome Video man, had quite a good time watching this. I really like how you don't only give your opinion but also add alot of reasoning to it. Quality stuff man, time to check out your other vids now
44:27 you CAN roll up to it, with the right timing. wait for it to breath fire, start rolling up at the apex of the fire breath, aim diagonally up, and blast it. works every time(you can even do this when it is just walking around, but it is far more difficult to pull off)
I disagree with a lot of things in this video, but since I don't want to spend 3 hours writing an essay nobody will ever actually read, I'll just mention one of them: the Ridley fight.
Yes, it's completely different in terms of tone, and I can understand why you'd prefer the more contemplative original ending. But I think it's just as viable, and it's unfair to dismiss it as fanservice.
I think the Samus Returns ending establishes the connection between Samus and the baby Metroid way better than the other two. If you go by those, we just see it briefly at the end of one game and the beginning of the next, we never even see Samus interact with it, and we're supposed to suddenly care when it dies at the end of Super? I never did.
But with the Samus Returns ending, we get to see Samus fight Ridley to save the baby Metroid, and even see it help Samus in the final phase. That made me believe that Samus actually cared about it, which makes Super Metroid feel like more of a personal story for Samus than just another quest to save the galaxy. And as a player, having it force Ridley into an attack I could counter and deal massive damage made me love the little thing, as did seeing it float adorably next to Samus in elevators and save points as I wandered the world to sweep up the last pickups.
I also appreciate the fact that with the Samus Returns ending, the baby Metroid both begins and ends its life helping Samus out with a boss battle.
So in my opinion, the original and AM2R endings work better in the context of Metroid 2 as an individual game, while the Samus Returns ending works better in the context of the series as a whole.
I disagree with you for a couple reasons, before the final fight in Super Metroid, the Metroid drains Samus, it tries to kill Samus.
If the Metroid helped Samus in a fight before, it completely changes what is understood about Metroids before its supposed to happen and would ruin the surprise, Samus isn't supposed to know the Metroid has feelings.
The original Metroid 2 ending is about Samus showing mercy not about the Metroid's behaviour or capacity to form bonds, that's Super Metroid's ending.
The metroid that attacked Samus in Super was bombarded with beta rays, those transformed it into a killing abomination and it was enclosed to be weaponized (by Ridley of course). They threw hoppers, skrees, and many other lifeforms to keep it content and grow in its strengths and size.
But when it attacked Samus (because it was almost used to it) for a second it remembered her. That is why it made the sounds it made when she left that room, and that is why it helped samus at the end of Super metroid.
Additionally, Proto Ridley makes a connection between the prime games and Samus Returns, having Ridley regenerate with its plated armor. After Samus Returns, the plated armor is gone (we see it in the ending), which means Ridley is fully regenerated and at full power. After this he decides to attack Ceres station after Samus leaves the baby metroid for research. This makes it more personal, for both Ridley and Samus. This is something that is never explained in both Metroid 2 and AM2R.
Samy_Jonas you hit the nail on the head with how I feel about this as well. While the Ridley fight may be a bit much, I love the fact that it finally establishes the missing link between the original 2D games and the Prime Trilogy.
To be honest, the reason I didn't have a problem with Ridley is because I always thought that Super Metroid and Metroid II had about a week to a month of space in between. Samus Returns seemed to support that.
Now, they need to remake Fusion and make Samus say "I owe the metroid hatchling my life *thrice* over."
While AM2R holds a similar dark perception of the metroids' effect on the environment, that Return of Samis does, Samus Returns builds on the idea that the Chozo created the metroids to combat the X parasite, and therefore fit quite well into the planet's ecosystem. Now I do love the visual and atmospheric storytelling in AM2R a lot more than in Samus Returns, but Samus Returns is surprisingly deep with it's environmental storytelling--Diggernaut being Chozo and trying to stop you, genociding the metroids being ultimately the wrong decision--and I don't anyone can discount that.
I mean, that's an interesting way of looking at it. For me, I just like AM2Rs interpretation of the old game. I felt like AM2Rs planet of SR388 was actually inhabited by the Chozo. There are multiple areas that tells that, from the water distribution facility to the research center. I just like it because it looked like there used to be a real, functioning society, not just temples.
Now I know why “clown” is in his name.
yes
This was a great video! Thanks for making it. I love such a detailed look
Not to be rude but the flaws you made on metroid return of samus is what make the game great the boring black backgrounds and reused rooms trying make the player feel lost and alone the sounds are off putting and should make the player feel uneasy the small screen adds on to that making it took like that's as much as you can seen in the slate dark cave your in. The lake of the map makes the player fear what to come next a when will the next save be. It suppose to make the player feel like there in Samus's shoes all alone in a foreign planet in dark uninviting cave. A little like a harrow game. Also the unsettling sound after you fight a metroid and your health is make you on edge trying to serve to get back to save ( that's if you remember where it is ) or get your health back up. And when all that hell is done and you beat the last boss the sound starts to get more relaxed and soothing making the player reflect on how far they've come and home much they have accomplished. It also makes the player feel relief that all they have been through is done now and they can rest knowing that have destroyed all the metroids and there's nothing to weary about. At less that's how I feel on it sorry for making a three pg paragraph.
I remember playing AM2R in development, pancakes did not always attack you, they originally did the same thing as the ones in the original
Such a long video and in depth analysis. Keep up the great work!
I think the original Metroid II is worth playing for more reasons than just "context" for the two remakes. It has a unique atmosphere that no other game in the series has come close to besides Fusion, and it messes with the player's expectations in several interesting ways. The game may have been limited by its platform, but it also *took advantage* of those limitations.
Also, saying it's "silly" for Samus to need a beam cannon to do her job is like saying it's "silly" for a hunter to need a gun. Underneath that armor she's still a human being, and she's often fighting aliens several times her size. I think it's "silly" to get up close to a Metroid, an alien creature with the power to suck life energy from any organism, and try to punch it, no matter how much space armor you have.
Mega Man is a full-on robot who could be rebuilt even if he got torn to pieces, and even *he* doesn't punch his opponents. He uses a beam cannon just like Samus, and I've never heard anyone say that the series was lame or incomplete because he only used guns. I think the difference is that Capcom never arbitrarily decided to shoehorn in a counter mechanic, leaving fans with the psychological need to rationalize that decision.
Sorry if I seem a bit belligerent here, but the revamped combat focus was what most annoyed me about Samus Returns, for a variety of reasons.
I think you misunderstood my intent when I said I thought it was silly that Samus couldn't defend herself in melee. I didn't mean to imply that should be her main form of combat, in fact I think I go out of my way to mention that it is a good tool to have but it is entirely over-utilized in the game. I still think her beams should be THE way to fight for the reasons you stated, but keep the counter/melee as an option, just with much MUCH less frequency.
Good point on the original though!
I completely agree with you that the melee attack is overused, but Mercury Steam faced a serious dilemma in implementing it: if it was too strong, the game would devolve into a punch-fest (which is what actually happened), but if it was too *weak* the thing would be useless. When an enemy's at close range, the melee counter would have to do much more damage than the Power Beam; otherwise you could just shoot them and be as well off.
Where I believe we disagree is that I don't think counter mechanics, or melee attacks in general, suit Metroid's style at all. I think the way to solve the dilemma of this move would be to simply not include it, and frankly I suspect that its inclusion is owing to MercurySteam's history of making games that rely on this type of combat, not Nintendo's direction. Team Ninja made this mistake as well; they turned Metroid into a Team Ninja game rather than learning how to turn their own ideas into Metroid.
I was actually quite impressed with most of your review. It may have gone on a bit long, but it's about time someone covered the details of these games instead of merely comparing broad design choices. It just so happens that I have very strong opinions on games, and this series in particular. Having Samus perform acrobatics and smack aliens in the face is as jarring and wrong to me as, I don't know, having Link wear a Nintendo Switch T-shirt and tool around in a unicorn-shaped motorcycle?
*irony intended*
It doesn't help matters that MercurySteam's resume is nothing but the Lords of Shadow series, and Castlevania is *another* series that I really loved until its parent company decided to make it "appeal more to the mainstream", destroying its uniqueness in the process and ultimately leading to a generic pair of games that almost no one seemed to like. From my perspective these guys helped to ruin Castlevania and now they're helping to ruin Metroid, though to be fair the parent company must ultimately be held responsible in both cases.
I don't scoff at works made for a mass audience, but considering that public taste is a moving target, any attempt to *aim* at the mainstream is likely to miss. It's a cynical way to design any product, and while you can sell potato chips or deodorant that way it's much harder to sell art with it. I think Nintendo's drift away from uniqueness in several of their major franchises is going to hurt it in the long run. It's certainly alienated me and a lot of people who appreciate their best series.
I think something that I MEANT to write down in my script but completely forgot to was that I hope, after this game, Nintendo takes development of Metroid back to their own studios. After Other M's critical failure I'm surprised they went with MercurySteam, especially given their recent track record. They have a bit more than Lords of Shadow, including something on Steam with very middling reviews.
I feel the same way about Lords of Shadow, though admittedly I didn't get much past the 15-20 minute mark of the game. There's people who love that game for what it is, but man that wasn't what I was wanting from a Castlevania game and I knew it as soon as I started playing.
The development of Samus Returns is a more interesting story than any version of Metroid 2, that's for sure. MercurySteam approaches Nintendo asking to make a remake of Fusion, and instead Nintendo proposes a complete overhaul of an older game requiring *more* work and a new approach to combat. How often does a small company *want* to make a port and end up making a new game?
I'm a big fan of Nintendo's games up to around 2010, and I still love things made by their subsidiaries (AlphaDream, Good Feel, HAL, etc.), but I think the Konami analogy is quite fitting. Silent Hill was another franchise that was beloved in the West and mostly ignored in Japan, made by a small team of dedicated people who didn't have much in common with the rest of the company. Konami started outsourcing it right after Silent Hill 4, and the franchise went downhill really quickly, with entries that had the window dressing of Silent Hill but none of the spirit. Silent Hill was like a bellwether for the decline of several Konami franchises in recent years (Castlevania and Metal Gear spring to mind). Nintendo is not nearly as dysfunctional as Konami was, but I think they're making the same mistakes.
Metroid's classic style came from three sources: a brilliant game designer who is now sadly departed, a first-party subsidiary that lost a lot of talent over this decade and has been put to work making Mario Kart and DKC remakes, and a dedicated but arrogant producer who's been slipping up lately. I used to hate Yoshio Sakamoto because of Other M, but as time goes by I think more and more that he's the only hope we have for a Metroid game with heart. This is the guy who made Wario Ware and Metroid Fusion; he's not a hack, just a fallible human being, and the rest of Nintendo doesn't seem to care at all.
I appreciate your reading these comments, by the way. I hope I'm not being too long-winded.
I'm looking at that chase scene and it look's totally fair, you were making a lot of mess up's.
That idiot doesn’t even know what he’s talking about bro he’s not a Metroid fan
AM2R actually based as much of its additions as possible (even the Genesis boss, IIRC) on stuff from Fusion or other sources.
This is one, if not, the most comprehensive assessments of these Metroid titles, ever made. (and I've watched a ton of them). I think you know that your work here, is of merit, and is the most informative within the series of other videos on Metroid, out there. I can hear it in your presentation.
Great work, and thank you for your contribution.
I look forward to future videos on other video-games in the near future.
If you have others, I will be searching your Video library to find them.
Thank you again.
Glad you enjoyed it. I can't say I have anything this ambitious in my library as of yet, and can't say when something this beefy will show up again.
thanks for this man! this was a great vid to watch and pass time through what's been otherwise a very long day. subscribed n stuff, love you, man!
uh oh i just re-watched this whole video not even realizing i'd already seen it
i'm like barely 30 why is my memory this bad
1:26:25 I find that a funny criticism. Remember Prime 1, the game everyone loves? Well, the most efficient route up to the plasma beam gets you about 50%. The other 50% is basically the endgame, when you take the artifacts and go beat up Omega Pirate before doing the final boss. For Prime 2 you are at 60% after getting the light suit and Corruption a little more, can't remember how much.
The difference is that Metroid 2's world is NOT interconnected. Once you're done with an area in the story for the first time, there's nothing more for the story there. Games like Prime at least have the interconnected world, so while you're on your way to another destination you'll organically find yourself in an older location with new upgrades that change its context.
Though Prime's key collection endgame is pretty bad, it at least feels way more "purposeful" than SR's hollow backtracking for the sake of it.
@@ingeniousclown Sometimes you find yourself in older location but when you are it's more logical and fast to leave most items for later. For example, the artifact that you can access with the space jump in magmoor cavern. Yeah, you could take it immediately, but there is a power bomb expansion in the same room as the artifact and if even leads to the ice spreader so it makes more sense to not do it now.
I find some of your complaints a tad _weird,_ mainly those about "But this isn't realistic, this is gamey, that's a problem!!"... n-no, it's not? I'd see yer point if it were _huge_ things breaking internal consistency or established lore and things like that... but a drill not looking realistic for the sake of a cool use for the Spiderball, no, that is _seriously_ not a problem. Also found your reaction to SR's Queen a bit exaggerated, but that's entirely subjective... and c'mon, just using plain and simple logic to go "He is trying to suck me in with that air current, and I can drop bombs in that path!" is kind of a just a case of... w-well, y'know. Using plain and simple logic. I think it's fair game to expect that of a player. xD
I also can't really agree with your issue with Ridley being there on principle, because, well - just because that quiet ending was Metroid 2's point it wanted to end on, it doesn't have to be that way for Samus Returns; the latter clearly has a much bigger focus on action and such, while also trying to revitalize the franchise - so an additional final _final_ boss that also happens to canonize the Prime trilogy is very fitting here.
Funnily enough, though, I _agree_ in a different way. _My_ issue with that part of the game is that the way _to_ Ridley should've been quiet. _Then_ it would've been a clever subversion of expectations, and it would've given Ridley's appearance a much more literally disturbing factor. It would've then been a way to take that quiet ending of the original game and thematically repurpose it for Samus Returns.
So I don't agree with your reasons for having issues with the end of the game, but I _do_ agree that there's issues at the end of the game, I suppose? :D
But yeah, otherwise a fantastic video!
I really like these long form style videos. It's gunna take a while though
AM2R is with its new Randomizer mode, and control options wins by a fair margin
It kinda sucks that it isn't natively compatible with the Dualshock 4, but eh.
@@Mike14264 It is, you just need to remap the control layout. But is natively compatible with the Xbox pad, the superior pad.
@@WaveForceful well, I don't have one of these, sadly enough. Also, I thought the GameCube controller was the superior controller.
I played the original Metroid 2 for the first time on my 3DS without a guide and had no problem beating it. I’ve since played Samus Returns and AM2R in full and think all of the games are fun in their own way. It just depends on your personal preference.
That was by no means an unbiased analysis, or even an objective comparison of the two later games. That was nothing more than an obnoxious, repeatitive thesis on why "Corporate SR = Bad" but "Indie "AM2R = Good".
Ingenious Clown gaming: *talking about a boss fight I really enjoyed*
Me: :D
Ingenious Clown gaming: it's a bad fight
Me: D:
I got Metroid II for the Gameboy when I was 12 or 13. I loved it. I still enjoy breaking it out and playing it every so often. I think it's a great little game.
I love AM2R so much. It's amazing how well it plays. I'm currently working on my 100% run
I always took the appearance of Ridley as a way yo explain how he looks between the prime trilogy (covered in metal, recovering from metroid 1) and how he looks in super metroid. Thats why he has parts of the metal on him in this game.
Amazing video I loved it!
This deserves WAY more views than it has, it should be in the hundreds of thousands. Great video and very well done!
fans vs developers
sonic mania vs sonic forces...
I mean... Whitehead and his team were already devs in their own right since they ported Sonic 1, 2 and CD before Mania. As I understand it, the Forces team just got the raw end of it by being stuck with a modified version of the Lost World engine, unlike the Retro Engine Whitehead wrote and has been maintaining himself specifically for the task of making Sonic games, or at least to replicate the techniques used in the 16-bit generation of consoles.
I don't begrudge Sonic Team and I don't begrudge Sega. Well, I begrudge Sega for reasons other than fan game related ones because they saw an enthusiastic and talented developer and instead of sending him C&D takedowns they gave him a job, and it sparked the way for a lot of other classic games to be released on a free to play ad-supported model.
Plus... Because of Sega's relaxed policy's regarding fangames, we have Freedom Planet and Sparks The Jester, two original indie projects born out of fangames with a lot of love poured into them.
I just wish they'd manage Sonic Team a little better. Those guys deserve more time to develop their games and they deserve to be unleashed to make another game as original as Unleashed('s daytime levels).
You know, it's funny to me. AM2R has really started to remind me of a sort-of Monkey's Paw situation. I think Samus Returns a great game and I enjoyed it a lot. However, because AM2R exists, everywhere I look, I seem to find people who think it's all right at best to by far the worst 2D Metroid and that seriously kills me. It's kind of funny in a way. When AM2R was taken down, I was outraged for all the obvious reasons and failed to see why a free fan game would be a problem for Nintendo. Now I see exactly what the issue is and it's darkly hilarious to me. In the time it took a new 2D Metroid to come out, I've been through Elementary, Middle, and High school and put a dent in my college degree. I'd think everyone would be to the moon over an official 2D Metroid and drum up enough sales to drag the series out of its Dark Age, but instead I see reactions ranging from "It's 'aight" to out-right boycotting (what are those idiots really trying to accomplish?) all because someone did it better when it seemed in most need of being done. For free. Don't get me wrong, though. I do love AM2R and hold a lot of respect for the people who made it happen. It's just really getting on my nerves that Samus Returns was dead on arrival among people I personally know because they could play the "better" version for free.
As I see it, true fans would have given SR a try anyway. I don't think SR is "dead on arrival" for the general fanbase though... most internet chatter I see give the game undue praise.
I was very excited for SR. AM2R is great and I was really happy playing it but with MSR coming out, I was thrilled to death. Not only is the fan game fantastic, but we're getting a new official metroid 2 remake!?!?!? Sign me up! Got a ton of money around Christmas so i went out and bought the Samus themed 3DS, MSR special edition, and all the accessories I needed. It was playing it that made me dislike and eventually hate it because of the flaws and more that he didn't mention in this video.
You don't need to use quotations, AM2R is far better. It's not a sin, nintendo/retro was not involved and fans made the second best 2d metroid ever made. For me, only super metroid and prime 1 are better than AM2R. I started samus returns with a open mind, came back to this genre after a really long time... And it was a mediocre experience. Then, to clean myself in a way, I played guacamelee 2 and hollow knight... jesus, if samus returns already looks weak in comparison with a fan game, compared with goddamn hollow knight... It's a massacre, lol Shameful to see such a big company like nintendo being incapable to make a good metroid game. HK was made by 4 people ffs
"it gets on my nerves that my friends won't spend money on a vastly inferior version of a game they already have access to out of some misguided sense of loyalty to a multi-billion dollar company"
Do you realize how insane you sound? Your friends are smart consumers and if Nintendo wanted their money they should have released a better product than the fan game alternative.
Jimmy Chongo go eat a fat one nigga
I actually really appreciate the way you measured the screens, b.c I've always felt that SOTN was the gold standard for character to screen ratio.
Heh, thanks. I actually felt like an idiot while editing it.
I think no one would be surprised that a bunch of Joseph Anderson videos were recommended to me after watching this xD
Great video Clown!
Thanks for the great content! I love the Metroid series, and all three games. I disagree with many things you said, but again I appreciate the content, and the love for metroid
Missed this in my sub box, but I'm glad I got to it...
Amazing video I thoroughly enjoyed
A great trilogy review!
"Metroid back into darkness"
WHEN YOU WALK AWAY YOU DO-
Wait, nvm.
Am I the only one who likes the original best? I just love how it deals with the limitations. The colors and pitch black background makes it truly feel like you’re treading through a deep and dark cave which I feel neither game did very well. The zoomed in screen also helps with this so honestly I don’t even see it as a bad thing. And the sound design is just so good. It doesn’t matter if it’s on the game boy. It knew this and it used this to create truly alien sounds that you would never expect to hear in another game.
You're not alone. Metroid II certainly has better atmosphere than it's remakes.
Holy crap! great job with the 1 and a half hour upload :)
Hour and three-quarters
A wonderfully in-depth analysis, this channel consistently puts out high quality content. I will disagree about only the scan pulse though, on the basis of "Metroid Moments", or as I like to call them, a case of the old WhereTheFuckDoIGo, could always use a crutch like this for players who need it. Personally I think a better compromise could be struck, like disabling the effectiveness of the scan pulse on certain difficulty levels. While I might agree that the game seems more designed around using it and therefore necessitates it to a degree, I don't think it's an unworthwhile inclusion.
Random thought.
You compare the zoom based on how many Samus's. I'd be curious each canes "resolution" based on her morphball size in each game. Since that sprite is a bit more square.
am2r: speed booster
samus returns: no speed booster
I think we all know who wins this one
Despite the C&D/whatever from Nintendo, people are still working on AM2R. Version 1.5 was released only like a month ago.
Great video
Nice vid. Would be happy to see you do more of these in depth vids if it's something you wanna do in the future.
I agree with most of what was said, but the Flying Chorizo was too _awesome_ for me to think it was "out of place". It's a surprise that hit really hard for me, partly because, most of the time, games don't try to pull surprises twice in a row like that, at least without being _completely_ ridiculous. That was the moment AM2R was cemented as my favorite Metroid, despite having beaten every installment (barring Hunters, the "I don't really count it as one" Federation Force, and the as-of-then unannounced Dread).
As for the Diggernaut, I have an additional gripe to add onto those already mentioned:
Imagine this: you've played the original game before, or Other M, or have at least seen the game's final boss before. You know that entering the stomach of an enemy is a viable option to do damage, especially at the end. So when you've gone through that long fight, and see him trying to suck you up with no stop, what's your first thought going to be?
That's right, you'll think you're supposed to feed yourself to the boss. And of course that's the _worst_ thing you can do. If it weren't for that, I'd have enjoyed that boss.
Finally, Ridley.
Oh Ridley... such a botched execution.
Because this boss exists, they decided to add enemies after the Queen, a visible save after the Queen, and powerups that can only be acquired after the Queen. That _completely_ spoils the surprise of an additional boss, one that would've worked by still _having_ that contemplative moment post-Queen, only for it to be subverted and catch you off guard.
"But what if you die to Ridley?"
Just make an _invisible_ save right before said fight! Who said that every save point needed to be blatantly obvious?
"Okay, but this doesn't even make sense for him to be there!"
I used to think so too, but it actually gives Ridley a believable way for him to know of the baby's existence, which wasn't really there before. Given that Super starts soon after 2, and also with Ridley raiding an otherwise random space station, there was no time to find out... unless he saw Samus's ship, questioned why it landed on this "unimportant" planet, and went in to investigate, resulting in this fight.
This means I consider that fight to have actually happened "in canon", even if the rest of the adventure is the AM2R version. _Maybe_ with the idea of the Diggernaut thrown in somewhere, I'm on the fence about that part.
MercurySteam's REALLY proud of that stupid counter. They tossed it into Castlevania too. Always kills the pace.
I don't know how many knew that the acid shaft does not covers all the lower parts of the planet. If you have enough health and is crazy enough to go down in the acid in Metroid2 and AM2R there is some places that the shafts tunnels go upwards that you will get out off the acid and go into a location earlier without killing all metroids in the previous ones, but you can't farther down without dying just going back the same acid way you came from, and no the acid will not sink if you skipped one area of Metroids and just killed them all in the next one. I don't know how itis on Samus Returns because I don't own that game so I cant test it.
In AM2R you're supposed to wait for the Zeta to begin or finish attack before attacking it like before its acid spit or finish its jump as it can't defend itself in these moments. I imagine the fight only lasts as long as it does for you because you spam all your super missiles at it while it's on guard. It's actually one of the more easy and predictable fights in AM2R, only beaten by the Omega which hits like a truck but can be taken out in seconds. I do agree the Tester can be unfair but if you go to get the power bombs before fighting it the fight becomes way easier as you can use them to take out all of its armor, timing them with it's more obnoxious attacks leaves it defenseless for a turn. Also you can harmlessly morghball under the Torizos legs just like in Super even while it's running around soooo.. yeeeah... not sure how it's "unfair", maybe for the boss but certainly not for you.
You have to get Power Bombs before fighting The Tester because the door that leads to the room where you turn the power back on in The Tower is locked behind a power bomb hatch so you'll have them when fighting it
@@magiccake6776 there's another path that leads to the tester even before getting pbs
@@dass8193 Oop, didn't know about that when I wrote that. I think I found out about it a bit later
0:03:35 big picture
0:09:15 combat
0:23:00 metroids
0:57:38 boss fights
1:17:01 exploration
1:36:45 story
I love your complaining about the zetas being too easy and you die in the footage. GG dude
I really enjoyed this video. It's an in depth, honest critique and evaluation of all three games and their mechanics. However, one thing kinda clicked in my mind about your criticism and praise of both remakes that I'd like to point out. The overall atmosphere of each game.
With the channel Video Game Study, the dide running it points out a Metroid series staple. How they create feelings of tensions and fear.
I feel like people are way too forgiving of the Nintendo for taking down am2r after 10 years and development. A lot of the issues people have with the game are very minor and could easily be fixed if the Creator didn't get to cease and desist. I've seen people defend the game with some claim that the copyright would become invalid in certain countries if they didn't, which is demonstrably false.
Hey I have a video about that EXACT topic! I'd appreciate it if you checked it out!
Goddamn dude, good job!
great job
About the "Top Gun Torizo", as you call it, I as a Metroid newcomer found it a great tutorial for the Space Jump.
It definitely is, its just a little too fast for my liking.
1:38:56
i believe this is hinting at raven beak and his army with zdr. basically a dread hint.
D pad sent me here, and I really liked this video, so you earned a sub :p
Nice video man, however I can't help but think it's slightly biased between AM2R and Samus Return. Having myself done back to back AM2R and Samus Return, there are multiple points about your arguments that are very true and that i agree with, like the fact that Samus Return's level design is pretty bland when compared to other games, regarding either the puzzle before an item obtention or backtracking being quite painful. However, there are a few words i have to say about what you told, *hum hum* , here we go !
First, there are lots of arguments and ideas i just can't understand, several complains aimed toward Samus Return that have no reasons to be here like these one for example :
- the time taken to use an elevator or teleporter. By itself, it's already not a huge waste of time and is done more or less depending on how play and potentially missed things is your exploration, but that can't really be tha game's fault does it ? To be more reasonable, you could compare that to the prime games when elevators and whatnot REALLY takes time to use. In that sense, SR waiting time is not long at all, and if anything i guess it's more than AM2R's way of fast travel is especially fast, meaning that's a good point for AM2R and not a bad point for SR. Something you did not mention is also the fact that the teleporter is available quite soon in the game, while in AM2R you need to wait the last part of the game before being really able to backtrack without pain... not the best decision in my opinion.
- the feeling of... reflecting on your actions (?) once the queen is dead and you make you way back toward the ship. This point is especially hard to speak about because it's entirely dependant of the player's point of view. Yes, one could think that way and take time to contemplate what was just done, but to me at least, i always found the epilogue segment to have no importance and use at all. Should there have been an escape sequence, why not ? But these rooms only serve to introduce a weird mechanic where baby metroids can suddenly break crystals that you've never found anywhere else before. The addition of Ridley is an other story, and while it's presence is clear proof of fan-service and evidence of trying to put Ridley as a more important vilain than he should be, it's also a way to create a link to the prime games. Other point : the false issue of Ridley appearing in SM after this cinsidering he would be wounded : that is clearly not the first time Ridley have been beaten and "rebuilt" in very different ways (hence the different names Ridley bear throughout the series) since the beggining, i don't see why this one time should be shoking and unacceptable.
- Planet activity/threat. This is something i especially don't understand wince you've told 2 opposite arguments about the high presence of wildlife and threats in both worlds of SM and AM2R. At first, you say you like the fact that SR contains lots of biological activity and then at the end complains about the fact that you can't progress fast enough because of it. If you want to make the world more natural, it is needed to have creatures impede your progression, you ARE on a dangerous planet after all, always digging deeper in it's depths. Even when compared to other metroid titles like fusion, samus often needs to stop to shoot down ennemies, sometimes quite resilient, and so does AM2R. I agree that there is a strong feeling of often stopping and walking again, but like you said SR got a problem with level design and i'm conviced this feeling comes from this, not necessarily the ennemies. I completely agree about the lack of variety and possibly ennemies's health which do not serve the game well, but that's not completely the same thing. The feeling of being in a hostile territory is present thanks to that.
I could say more, about diggernaut for example but you see the point. Don't get me wrong : SR have numbers of flaws that makes it just a good game and not an excellent one. From hearing your arguments and how you debated about it, i'm more dissapointed by the fact that it feels very biased. You did say you had a favourite game among the 2, and that's only natural. The problem i have is when the argument's base is partially composed of false problems, or what could be considered a good point for one and not a bad one for the other (which is a better and more positive way to point out a difference). In all due respect toward AM2R's team, the game contains big flaws that should not be here, among are these 2 :
- the metroid fights. Every single fight, except for when they're at their first state, is really clunky and extremely frustrating. i've heard people being frustrated over the dig bot in SR or the torizo in AM2R, but the metroid fights really takes the cake. The environment is almost a better ennemy than the metroid itself, and the window to hit the metroid in it's weak point is so unpredictable that it makes fights, even with a great number of e-tank or missile tank, very random about their outcome. Why are these fight so much a problem ? Because it's the main objective ! it's the one thing we know will repeat itself through the whole game, and when you experience the first 2 states, boy you know you're in for a wild ride. It being the main goal and most present fights in the game, they can't afford to miss the point like that. Being thrown of the room from a hit, only to start over is a huge miscalculation that should never have existed in the first place. Puting 5 alpha together is not a way to compensate either...
A major point you made is SR fights to feel a lot like a game, and whil a agree about the alpha state which is quite boring but stille needs to be simple to train about the new mechanic, at least the fights are enjoyable, and the environment does not kill you as much as the ennemy itself. You complained that the metroids don't feel "natural" but as i said before it's an argument that you don't use very well to judge everything in the same manner, hence it kinda feels weak after some thoughts.
- Final battle. To be honest, yes the fight against the queen is very impressive and enjoyable... until you look at the fight as a whole. Being almost able to regenerate more than your initial life over the final boss... that's just illogical. Good thing the other bosses were there because otherwise it would have been a letdown. Strangely enough, i found a majority of AM2R bosses to be extremely interesting, except for Genesis and possibly the crazy Tester metal ball / bullet hell thingy. I know it can be considered as fan-service, but the animation played whenever you counter is something pretty worth that you did not speak about. Thinking about it, it's a bit weird since you said at the beggining that you wished to see Samus be more able at close range since she got the power suit, and yet doesn't speak about these animation. Of course they don't really serve a purpose in a general manner, but it contributes to building what type of strength Samus posess, the training she went through and it's a really enjoyable to see her do thing like that (pretty rare in the franchise in general).
To conclude this huge text that no one will probably read, i'd like to clarify one thing : i do not like one game over the other. They both contain very different atmoshpere, style in music (which would have been cool to have it's own part dedicated to it in the video sadly), good and bad points. To me, the perfect game would be a mix of those 2 tiltes because they each contain what the other lacks : more boss fights that use clever ideas (lore and gameplay wise) for SR, clean AI and fair fights for each metroid state for AM2R, better level design for SR etc.
Like everyone else, i wish Nintendo wasn't this stupid about Metroid, forgetting about the 40 years really is a shame... anyway, nice work about your analysis. Even tho i don't always agree, you did a lot of work to compare everything and capture footage of the games. Nice video, and congratulation to whoever read this until the end.
"this huge text that no one will probably read" I read it ^^
In the stroy part, I am a bit surprised you didn't made even a single mention of the post-credit scene in Samus Returns.
Just so you know, Power Bombs make both the Tester and Serris fights a lot easier.
MinerTurtle 45 I...never thought to use it on those. I generally never think to use it offensively, for that matter. So many possibilities.
1:15:35 well, he had part of the armour of Omega Ridley on, and that was powered by Phazon, that explain why he's red-purple and not grey-purple: he mainly regenerate himself from injuries by eating meat, but without meat he used the Phazon, a mutagen that was the reason of why the Metroids were created (along side the X). The baby, basically removed all of the Phazon Ridley digest after the last battle. He simply regain consciousness after a little time, he got rid of the armour (which he could wear if powered by Phazon) and done. He's ready to be back and finish his mission. And then, if you were Mother Brain, WHERE would you send your general to retrive a Metroid? In their homeplanet. That makes sense. I agree with you that this kill the calm and silence of the original game, I would have much prefer that, while returning to the surface you would face some enemies with 100% of drops and that could damage/scare the baby Metroid, suggesting you to save. Then, arriving to the surface would have got you by surprise because of Ridley arrival.
How could you say that AM2R's soundtrack is nostalgia bait when I cannot remember 1 original composition from Samus Returns? Sure AM2R reused a lot of songs from earlier games, but they were remixed in such a way that they feel and sound completely unique and atmospheric. If anything I thought that Samus Returns' soundtrack was nostalgia bait.
Great review otherwise. Positively the most in depth review for all three of these games that I've ever seen.
I don't mean to say that AM2R's was bad or anything, I actually loved it. I just would have liked to hear more original stuff. And you're right, SR's is VERY unmemorable, but with the exception of a few nostalgia-bait tracks I appreciated the attempt at remastering the ambient sounds and musics of the original game and trying to make something interesting out of them.
@@ingeniousclown ingeniousclown Gaming I 100% agree that remastering music from earlier games is preferable to the ambient beeping noises from the original, and I absolutely loved the remaster of Lower Brinstar's theme in one of the later areas (I can't remember which). It's just the way you mentioned AM2R's soundtrack being "lazily filled with nostalgia bait" made it seem like you didn't like it as much or thought that it suffered from doing that. My mistake. Like I said, amazing review. Good on you for making such a comprehensive comparison of these 3 great games. Hope to see more like this in the future.
The countering can be avoided for most enemies and you can still survive, but once you get to those later end bosses and enemies, the counter can be critical unless you want to spend hours or days memorizing patterns of enemies and bosses
I tried to download am2r from Reddit on MacAnd I could never get it to work. I unzip the zip file and try to open the game but nothing happens. Any tips?
Top quality video you'll have hundreds of thousands of subs soon enough
Zeta's are a joke in AM2R when you realize how to work around their "missile denial attack". About 6 Supers kill them and it takes maybe a minute or 2. When a Zeta jumps and lands you shoot a Super as soon as they land as they will not deny your supers. This also applies to their acid spit, as they are about to do it you can hit them with a super and they will not counter. Lastly they will start countering after 4 super missile's connect and damage them.
All the metroids in AM2R have a way around their counters to your attacks, you just gotta learn them.
Other than that, this was a good video.
I'd also like to point out that you can fake out a missile counter with a regular missile, then quickly switch to super missiles for a free shot.
Also, AM2R's one button morph ball allows you to jump, spider ball into the wall and crawl over top of zetas while they wind up their acid attack
24:13 that sounds exactly like something the Galactic Federation would do
The last part of the video made me a little....Well, saying that MSR at some point lost the core of exploration and discovery....Emh...Nope, I don't think so....XD Cmon, if even in Other M there are some traces of this core, how could they possibly be absent in MSR?I deeply disagree, the classic backtracking formula is absolutely solid in this game, as much as in AM2R. The fanmade game IMHO ultimately wins for a better art style and old fashion vibe (and yes, it's faster, but it's based upon Zero Mission engine, I think it's normal, otherwise I would be surprised!) but it doesn't necessarily stomp on MSR, rather on the contrary, they coexist pretty well and can be loved equally for different reasons. And from this point on, I can only hope that Nintendo will continue to release Metroid games more regularly (I mean, not annually, so...Maybe every now and then, in the next few years?....)....Be an other remake (although there's not really need for a Super remake but....Well, it's not like the original would be tarnished or anything, so it would be pretty ok I guess....Mmmh, maybe Fusion could be a better choice, but I wouldn't considere it as a top priority) or....OR, a completely NEW Metroid, a Metroid FIVE.....Yeah, it would be nice to know what the heck happened after the end of Fusion, with Samus gone against GF orders and X-Parasites annihilated....Who knows what could happen to her....? I can only imagine....
Contrary to what you said I believe it makes sense that Ridley is in samus returns. Because it connects the prime games to the 2D ones and leads into super Metroid. The general things I’ve heard is that Ridley has been healing over the prime games and that’s why he appeared fine in super because he’s fully healed and doesn’t need to have his metal prosthetics anymore and it shows how the space pirates knew that samus took the baby Metroid to Ceres in the first place because Ridley came to SR388 to take the baby Metroid from samus and then followed her when he woke up.
Great video, I finished samus returns recently and I couldn't put on my tongue the reason why it self so off.