You just saved me a lot of money, sir. We are transitioning to off-grid living next year and this coupled with some basic passive solar water heating just solved one of my biggest problems. Thank you!!
Jeff I have learned so much and enjoyed all of your videos and thank for what you do!! I have been watching for many years and have come to respect and trust your simple and practical approaches. WE ALL thank you for the knowledge you share with your fellow alternative enthusiast!
I just finished a 28gal set up for the 1/2 bath in my shop. I formerly had a tiny 120v, 2-1/2 gal tank under the sink for hand washing/etc. Used four 175w panels (35v, 5amp) wired in parallel into a Midnite combiner box with #12 solar panel wire. Out of the combiner box, I used #8 to a single pole SquareD 40a QO series breaker in a small 2pole box right under the combiner box. From there, #8 wire to the heater, located about 3' away under sink cabinet, and connected to one of the 48v 700w elements with the built in thermostat. The most amps I've seen it draw is around 12 in full sun on the panels. I bought a small LED thermometer and K-type probe with 1/2" pipe thread. This is screwed in a T in the hot line w a 1/2" female pipe adapter in the T, since there is no port in the tank itself to screw in the probe. (Used 120vAC tank I had). Gauge takes 12vDC power to light it up, I used a 12vDC transformer off some former cell phone or flashlight or something I had laying around.....got a bag full of those wall warts. Gauge and probe about 25 bucks on Amazon. Heater does REAL good. Water first day 67 degrees, heated to 110 with about 5 hours o the panels (panels are roof mounted on my shop, 45 degree angle, face east/southeast) Held 98 over night, next day heated to 145 degrees with full sun. It will hold 130 degree for a day or so with no sun, which is all I want.....just some hot water to wash hands or a paint brush. I leave the thermostat set on 150. Edit: Element lasted about 2 weeks and burned out or the thermostat died. Since then, I bought a cheap 1200w 36v element from Amazon, and it's worked ever since.
Wow, posted 8 years ago. Suddenly I need an adjustable DC water heater with built in thermostat. Thanks! I'll be contacting you guys. It fits what I'm doing as I'm getting ready for winter....
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I drive on 60 from Nashville to Wichita every year. I drive by your store! I did stop once. Once I get my money saved up, I plan to buy a WT from ya. Thanks for the helpful vids.
being an hvac tech for years, i say the design is ingeniously awesome, solar hot water for free in a regular hot water tank,....AWESOME JOB GUYS,....thanks so much!!! can you add this to heat a boiler for heat in cold climates????? take this to the next level and design boilers with these elements for heat in cold climates, steam or hydronic
im going to try to get into a 12 v dc element and try you preheater i think it would be an awesome little investment - thanks for turning me on to solar dc elements and the warning about fake ones - keep itup
I've been using a standard 12 gallon water heater with a 200A relay controlled by the thermostat and fed from a 1500w 38v solar array. It takes shunt loads during the day. Thermostat control voltage is 28vac from an old doorbell transformer. Don't use DC in a W/H thermostat. Simple and works great!
Can you post details of your solar water heater setup. Which seem practical as understood from your comment. Can we connect a 315 x 3 = 945 Watts 48 volt pannel directly to a DC heating coil with built-in thermostat
very good. Need to get a few of these for our aquaponics system in the winter. Right now we are planning on building a Rocket Mass Heater for the greenhouse. We are totally off grid....well except for the phone line(DSL) that is powered by solar.
Hi Jeff, it was after watching this video i found out why the 12 volt heating element solar panel which i had donated didn't work which my daughter had took to Brazil to Save The Children were she was just one of many kids Volunteering. And its good to see you point out theses sellers ??. That's why i like all your video's keep them coming Jeff..
Hi Jeff, Zoe spends 3 months ever year with ten other friends who are all under 26 years old doing this none paid work to help Save Children in need all over Brazil. each one of the team pays their own way taking what ever they can.I build little portable solar generators out of 50 Caliber Ammo Can's or similar enclosure I get from eBay which all come from US to me in UK lol..? with 20 watt Solar panels charger inverter with led lighting and any item they can take with them which i get my doctor to donate which can be a big problem getting thought airport.If i was 40 younger i would go with them as well Jeff and your video made it clear to me why the 12 volt heating element wouldn't work because everything you showed on the video was the same even down to burn marks Jeff .
How large a water tank can those elements heat if it were a sunny day? If it's made in Germany, it's top quality. I'm guessing with the increase in solar panel efficiency and price that this will replace the solar water heaters stuck on the roof of a house. Am I right with my statement?
Love your videos they are so oriented to the common man/woman so that we can all do our own projects and. Thanks Jeff and Molly and Wyatt Looking forward to picking up more solar panels from you.
I just want to know how much of a load, amps and how long will it take to heat a 6gal water heater tank? I want to take the 110v element out and replace it with this one
This is awesome... I have a RV that will become my home in the future, and the cost of propane to heat water is CRAZY priced... Being on a limited income, This would help me a great deal, and I would never have to worry about having warm water. I'm wondering if the heating element with the built in thermostat, will it fit my Atwood XT hot water heater ? Thanks for sharing this video....
if ya go propane use a on-demand , its instant and only used propane while you use hot water, showers washing dishes etc a 20 pound works heating for 6 hrs at highest heat setting (will burn skin) 12-20 hours at reasonable temps. Magiccheff makes a perfectly good one and nicely priced.
Looked into this a few yrs back when you first came out with them but solar panels were still pretty pricey but now with solar prices roughly half what they were this is a very very cost effective way to heat hot water. Your adjustable thermostat with with a pair of 330-350w solar panels is on my list of must do this yr. I should be able to heat my hot water tank(I live in FL so I should be able to 100% heat my water with 0 electricity) for around $400 with tax credit on solar panels. That is around a 1yr ROI which is crazy good and I will never need to pay to heat my hot water again.
If I understand this correctly, when hooking up a solar panel to a DC water heater you do not have to run the power through a battery first like you do for everything else?
Brutal honestly.. was a bit rough watching at the beginning. Not the most dynamic public speaker.. and the sound quality is lacking. However, this is a very educational video on a level a novice could understand. I've hit like and subscribed. Thanks so much. (Not sure how I could completely convert to solar at present pricing and my income, but a pre-heater sounds cheap and easy. If just for that, this is an awesome video.)
Lol, i agree with ya on the public speaker. The filming has gotten much better and so has the sound since this video was put up. Thanks for the sub Dominique
Is there an update to this setup? Does the idea still work with newer water heaters? Are there risks to just removing the AC element and installing a DC element?
You need to make 48v ones to get more watts, I suggest making a 1000w one. Which would draw around 21 amps. All you need to power it would be 4x250w solar panels in series. This would heat up a proper sized tank at least, it would be a good setup. They make controllers for this, all you have to do is connect the panels to the controller and then the controller to the water heater (no need to have any batteries). It will heat your water all of a day time and the thermostat on the water heater itself will of course like these water heaters turn itself off when it reaches the right temperature and then back on if it needs to heat up again. Here in Australia which has good sun it's very effective, but in a lot of the USA, Mexico, India, southern Europe, Africa, middle east and south east Asia and possibly southern China it also would be very effective also. It still works even on a cloudy day, because the heater will simply be on nearly all day and put any power it can into the tank. So even on a cloudy day it may only be feeding in as low as 300w out of it's 1000w potential, but that 300w is still enough to keep the water nice and hot because it will keep pushing this heat into the tank all day. For example if you have a 100 litre hot water tank, here in Australia the water is stored in this at about 60 Celsius. If you were to have a long shower then it's easily likely that the next day when you wake up the water inside the tank in the morning may only be 40 degrees. On a sunny day it will only take the 1000w DC element 2.5 hours to heat the water back up to it's 60 Celsius. But if it's a cloudy day you may only get 300w, but this still will heat your water all the way back up to 60 Celsius also, but it will just take 8 hours to get it there. Of course if you live somewhere with many cloudy days like England, then I would suggest getting 8 panels instead of 4. And have 4 in series, one row above the other and have those two rows in parallel. Then you should in theory at least get 600w of power into your element on a crappy cloudy day. Because you don't want to have just 4 panels if you have many cloudy days consecutively, but it's fine to just have 4 when living in sunny places that don't often have weeks of cloudy weather.
On a larger heater with 2 elements, could you use this for the bottom one and make it a dual heater ?? Also if you got the one with the thermostat do you just hook to the panel or do you need a charge controller ? Just found you and you have so much great info thank you for sharing !!!!!!!!!!!!
GREAT VIDEO I have a QUESTION. With the 12v 300watt dc heating element how long does it take (approximately) to bring up a 35 gallon tank of water up to useful temps? Assume we're starting around 60-degrees fahrenheit? I know there are a lot of variables involved. Just looking for a magnitude of scale. 1 hour, 3 days, etc... I know we're talking 300 watts which is 1,023 BTUs (perfect conversion) and it takes 1 BTU to raise 1 gallon water 1 degree fahrenheit. So the math would say (assume 100 degree increase) 100 BTU/GAL * 35 GAL = 3,500 BTUs So Can I assume 3 hours? I'm looking for what you experience day to day. THANKS!!
seems like ac elements can work if you get the ohms correct - Will a 120v heating element work on 12v? Yes, but the element will draw half the amperage (because I = V/R) and at half voltage will consume/produce one quarter of the wattage (because P = I V ). Therefore, it will take 4 times as long for the water heater to recover from use and be fully heated for the next uses.Jan 24, 2022
so question, i have a water heater that has dual elements and it has options to use both elements or 1 permanent and the other as a standby, do you think i could use this in place of the standby, and it would cause the main element (which it temp controlled) to operate less thus save money?
This sounds great. What size solar panel would you suggest to use with your dc heater element for electric water...say 40-50 gal. or less as a pre-heater?
What size solar panel would I need to run an adjustable dc element on a 50-gallon electric water heater? I want to convert it to solar. Thank you so much for your videos they are so informative.
Best things to do: 1 - Email your questions to sales@windandsolar.com 2 - Call our sales team at 417-708-5359 3 - Attend a workshop - windandsolar.com/workshop/ We can get you pretty much any information you need through those channels!
I try to brows your store at e bay ,but I did not see that adjustable h2o heating element ....I like to know how much the price....if I buy that h2o heating element.... how long it will take to get a hot h2o on a 20 gallon tank.....and do you have a diagram on how to hook up on an ac h2o heater tank? thank you ...8s an interesting video
jeremy henderson You know - you get what you pay for. I’ve been on this earth for almost 7 decades -- found out a long time ago - you can buy something for $50 that lasts a 6 months, maybe year or two, and keep replacing it with more cheapies. Or I can buy a reputable, well known item for $125 and have it last for dozens of years without any problems. I’m not all that good in math - but I have certainly wasted enough money trying to save a few dimes or dollars to know which choice I now make. Sometimes, in life we just can’t choose the best or anyways close to best and have to go with the cheap choice. I’ve always (not sometimes) but always paid for it and regretted those purchases. If I had to go the cheap route, I vowed (and save for it) to upgrade on the next replacement. I still do that but typically I just hold off, make do until I can afford better quality even though it is more expensive - can’t always do that but that’s the plan.
rosebudforglory , I too have been on this earth for nearly 7 decades as well and have observed that you can spend any amount of money on products but the amount does not necessarily dictate the quality or longevity of a product. I have used Dernord DC elements (in several applications) for a number of years now and find them to be of high quality, in a wide spectrum of voltage and wattage and base priced around 25$. Education, research and experience are the main factors, many or most people are noob’s in the alternative energy venture and have barely a clue as far as function, energy usage and actual application. These are generally the people that overspend to compensate for their lack of understanding. Throwing money at something is rarely as redeeming as actually rolling up your sleeves and doing the work. I think it is a common misconception that you always get what you pay for.
hi jeff, was thinking about purchasing your variable heating element but would like to know what wattage and how many solar panels I would need to run this thanks
A Merry Christmas. May be you can help me. I do have a IBC Tank 1000 liter. I am using the IBC as a Biodigester so the water is not the cleanest with all the debris in it. I want to keep the Temperature at a constant 35 Celsius and connect a Solar Panel to it. What size??? Is this possible without additional regulators??? You input will be appreciated. I reside in the Philippines. Starting water temperature is guesstimated 18 C.
Hello Jeff, I really enjoy your videos, Can you clarify the use of the Solar Panel to heat the water element. i have from your company a 24v Dc element and wondering how many panels i need to connect to this to heat a water heater. It appears from your video you dont connect to a battery bank or controller. Can you let me know the correct way to do this please Ross Tga NZ
great idea but do they have them that will fit rv waters. i was go to convert for gas only to electric also dc would be great. because im going solar. if they don't then its a good idea for off the grid people.
Very nice product? I am using 220 / 50 hz here in Chile because this is what all my appliances are rated at. Can these be used on a 220 system? or will I have to convert the power from the Wind Turbine? I sure do appreciate these videos. Also can you provide a Celsius scale on the heater elements?
I had no idea there was such a thing. Can you put together a system that will switch and operate with grid power when there is not sufficient wind and/or solar and switch back when wind and or solar are producing again. Maybe a grid/wind/solar charge controller on a small battery bank. Water heaters sure gobble up power.
Hi Jeff, we'll this element work on my rv propane water heater, I purchased a conversation kit to run it on electricity, I also installing solar panels, it's a 1999 itasca. Thank in advance.
hay jeff. will you send me more infow on this. im working on a big fish tank set up and I need away to heat it. win it gets cold here in what 6 weeks. if I run the water thoo a water tank with one in it turn down I think it will work. thanks David
I've bought a 600 watt MW&S element (without thermostat) that I will be running at 24 VDC. The water heater is the same or very similar that shown in this video. The video says that I can still use the water heater's thermostat. What I am wondering is if that thermostat will be OK with switching the 25 Amp load. When powered via AC the Amp load is 13.2. Note that I am going to replace all of the wires with 10 AWG.
Answer is tricky. First understand that Direct Current, especially as the voltage goes up, arcs BADLY. Big problem with contacts and switches. The US went all through this in building battery operated naval submarines from 1910 - 1955. What is a hot water thermostat ? A switch, and it has a rating. Now here is where it gets "messy". A household water heater draws about 20 amps IF it is powered by 230 volts AC. With Direct Current, you calculate with Ohm's law or other electrical formulas. A standard household electric water heater holds up pretty well when wired as intended, i.e. 240 volts Alternating Current. Alternating Current unlike Direct Current arcs much less, which is why AC is ALWAYS preferred. Are there solid state switches on the market that can can work in place of an ordinary switch or relay for DC ? Probably. Go start researching, but standard switches will fail early or weld contacts as you use higher DC voltages. So wire size is simply about the amperage or current that the wire will carry. For more amps, wire has to be thicker. It all goes back to Ohm's law. The amount of current that flows is determined by the supplied voltage and the resistance of the load. (Drop a screwdriver across two battery posts on a car battery and either the battery blows up, or you blow a big hole in the screwdriver) A 24 volt emergency diesel cranks with 1/2 the amperage of a 12 volt car. If the Car cranks at 160 amps, the 24 volt diesel cranks at 80 amps. The 24 volt system also DOES NOT need thicker cable because current remains the same. The issue is NOT whether 24 volts DC will heat an appropriately matched heating element. The issue is how how you control arcing when using DC. I recommend going from DC (perhaps 48 volts) and then recreating 240 volts AC and heating just like your house does. Solves a lot of problems. Electrical calculations needs to be done to make sure the source can insure the result.
well I found that you can power a normal ac heating element with just a lower amperage element 7 amp. just need 240 volt DC so hook panels up in series.
Would like to see more videos on this like see a working heater. I'm wondering if this might be used to heat a radiant hot water heater for winter heating.
Jeff, Can you put a 12V deep draw battery in this circut to power the heating element through the night and have the solar panels recharge the battery during the day?
Hi There. I Have a question... How long does it takes to heat a 50 Gallon water tank to 135 F with this 200W 6 inch 12 Volt DC with built in Thermostat element????
So what ur saying is u hook up a 100watt solar panel and hook it straight up to a 12v heating element no regulator needed? Just straight to it huh wow thats a pretty amazing heating element i definitely ned one if those
would be nice if u shown an ie, for ur whole water sys for off grid. i have a ground lvl spring about 60 ft from my (house). i have a dc water pump (3/8 inlet/outlet) that i intend to elevate up the mountain side, for gravity fed water. ill likely go up about 30 ft. with a float switch but for now ill just hook the pump up directly to my water heater and my 150 w solar panel (directly?) to the water htr ... ill split off the water between the pump and w htr to have hot and cold water supply. ok... what problems would i expect ? or suggestions...?
if you have a 40 gallon tank ,how many solar panels would i need to heat the water this way ? or would it be better to use a smaller water heater and if so how many solar panels would i need for the smaller one
Yes I’m in Canada and I am building an off grid camper and actually living in it. I have a water heater and also I have “as you use water heater”. I would like to get a couple of your 24v adjustable heaters for use and show. Great video It would be great to find lower temperatures to keep holding tanks from freezing in the trailers
I love your videos...would you happen to recommend a water heater storage tank for a stand alone setup for say, a food cart ? I know you've done something similar with one of those blue 5 gallon bottles but, are they rated for 190 degrees long term ?
Can the most energy efficient 12 volt instant water heater with the smallest allowable, highly insulated reservoir tank for short showers be engineered?
I have a GigaWatt 255W Solar Panel. Can I just run it into a 120 volt AC heating element? Will the 12 watt heating element you mention work with this panel without using a converter? I think the panel puts out around 37 volts. Thanks
MW&S Hello sir, I can't find the adjustable DC heating element on your web site. Also since it sticks out too far for a RV water heater can you get the temp controller to the element on the cord? Thank You and your vids are great.
Yes I’m in Canada and I am building an off grid camper and actually living in it. I have a water heater and also I have “as you use water heater”. I would like to get a couple of your 24v adjustable heaters for use and show. Great video
@@MissouriWindandSolar Jeff, I have a 14,000 gal above ground pool in Wisc and pool heater options that exist are too expensive IMO. This seems like it could work as a very inexpensive alternative to the pool heaters on the market right now. Message me because I think we should talk about making a kit for pool (mostly above ground) owners across the US for this to revolutionize the pool heating industry.
running 44 volts solar pannel to your 12 volts element i just got it and use a breaker switch ONLY GETTING 1,5 VOLTS on your 300watt //12 volts ,not getting the volts
We get this question from time to time. While on its face it seems like a great idea, heating water with solar electric is one of the tasks we try to avoid. In most instances we're going to recommend using gas as the efficiencies are difficult. The solution I would look into is solar thermal panels. The basic idea here is you're circulating the pool water through a panel that is heated by the sun - it's like a water cooler that supplies hot water for tea. The cold water goes in to thermal panel that has been heated by the sun and comes out heated. Can you use a hot water heater powered by solar, sure - but the amount of power needed to lift 1 gallon of water 1 degree (and keep it there) taken over a whole pool gets to be pretty cost prohibitive quickly.
You just saved me a lot of money, sir. We are transitioning to off-grid living next year and this coupled with some basic passive solar water heating just solved one of my biggest problems. Thank you!!
+SinDelle Morte Your welcome.
Is it working? I want to use a submersible one for a very small tub in my build
Jeff I have learned so much and enjoyed all of your videos and thank for what you do!! I have been watching for many years and have come to respect and trust your simple and practical approaches. WE ALL thank you for the knowledge you share with your fellow alternative enthusiast!
That was nice of you to say, thanks.
@@MissouriWindandSolar lm z
I just finished a 28gal set up for the 1/2 bath in my shop. I formerly had a tiny 120v, 2-1/2 gal tank under the sink for hand washing/etc.
Used four 175w panels (35v, 5amp) wired in parallel into a Midnite combiner box with #12 solar panel wire. Out of the combiner box, I used #8 to a single pole SquareD 40a QO series breaker in a small 2pole box right under the combiner box. From there, #8 wire to the heater, located about 3' away under sink cabinet, and connected to one of the 48v 700w elements with the built in thermostat. The most amps I've seen it draw is around 12 in full sun on the panels.
I bought a small LED thermometer and K-type probe with 1/2" pipe thread. This is screwed in a T in the hot line w a 1/2" female pipe adapter in the T, since there is no port in the tank itself to screw in the probe. (Used 120vAC tank I had). Gauge takes 12vDC power to light it up, I used a 12vDC transformer off some former cell phone or flashlight or something I had laying around.....got a bag full of those wall warts. Gauge and probe about 25 bucks on Amazon.
Heater does REAL good. Water first day 67 degrees, heated to 110 with about 5 hours o the panels (panels are roof mounted on my shop, 45 degree angle, face east/southeast)
Held 98 over night, next day heated to 145 degrees with full sun. It will hold 130 degree for a day or so with no sun, which is all I want.....just some hot water to wash hands or a paint brush. I leave the thermostat set on 150.
Edit: Element lasted about 2 weeks and burned out or the thermostat died. Since then, I bought a cheap 1200w 36v element from Amazon, and it's worked ever since.
you sir have just won the internet. This is some incredible and valuable info. Thank you
Wow, posted 8 years ago. Suddenly I need an adjustable DC water heater with built in thermostat. Thanks! I'll be contacting you guys. It fits what I'm doing as I'm getting ready for winter....
I drive on 60 from Nashville to Wichita every year. I drive by your store! I did stop once. Once I get my money saved up, I plan to buy a WT from ya. Thanks for the helpful vids.
Just fantastic to have a business explain their products and how they work then be honest, definitely buying from this company!
Thank you for your feedback!
being an hvac tech for years, i say the design is ingeniously awesome, solar hot water for free in a regular hot water tank,....AWESOME JOB GUYS,....thanks so much!!! can you add this to heat a boiler for heat in cold climates????? take this to the next level and design boilers with these elements for heat in cold climates, steam or hydronic
im going to try to get into a 12 v dc element and try you preheater i think it would be an awesome little investment - thanks for turning me on to solar dc elements and the warning about fake ones - keep itup
I've been using a standard 12 gallon water heater with a 200A relay controlled by the thermostat and fed from a 1500w 38v solar array. It takes shunt loads during the day. Thermostat control voltage is 28vac from an old doorbell transformer. Don't use DC in a W/H thermostat.
Simple and works great!
Ken Bell well that would be nice to set such a set up. People are clever.
Can you post details of your solar water heater setup. Which seem practical as understood from your comment. Can we connect a 315 x 3 = 945 Watts 48 volt pannel directly to a DC heating coil with built-in thermostat
very good. Need to get a few of these for our aquaponics system in the winter. Right now we are planning on building a Rocket Mass Heater for the greenhouse. We are totally off grid....well except for the phone line(DSL) that is powered by solar.
I want to congratulate you on a good and thorough explanation of your product. You made a sale.
I like this. Hot water heaters really run the bill up, so this would be a very good way to save money!
Hi Jeff, it was after watching this video i found out why the 12 volt heating element solar panel which i had donated didn't work which my daughter had took to Brazil to Save The Children were she was just one of many kids Volunteering.
And its good to see you point out theses sellers ??. That's why i like all your video's keep them coming Jeff..
Thanks Gene. What a shame about your daughters project.
Hi Jeff, Zoe spends 3 months ever year with ten other friends who are all under 26 years old doing this none paid work to help Save Children in need all over Brazil. each one of the team pays their own way taking what ever they can.I build little portable solar generators out of 50 Caliber Ammo Can's or similar enclosure I get from eBay which all come from US to me in UK lol..? with 20 watt Solar panels charger inverter with led lighting and any item they can take with them which i get my doctor to donate which can be a big problem getting thought airport.If i was 40 younger i would go with them as well Jeff and your video made it clear to me why the 12 volt heating element wouldn't work because everything you showed on the video was the same even down to burn marks Jeff .
How large a water tank can those elements heat if it were a sunny day? If it's made in Germany, it's top quality. I'm guessing with the increase in solar panel efficiency and price that this will replace the solar water heaters stuck on the roof of a house. Am I right with my statement?
Love your videos they are so oriented to the common man/woman so that we can all do our own projects and. Thanks Jeff and Molly and Wyatt Looking forward to picking up more solar panels from you.
These would be great for a OTG Aquaponics system!
My main problem with my AP system is keeping the Tilapia water at 78* F
MissouriWindandSolar what a great way to not waste your dump load! :) Great video - thanks
The one with adjustable thermostat is a gamechanger.
I just want to know how much of a load, amps and how long will it take to heat a 6gal water heater tank? I want to take the 110v element out and replace it with this one
This is awesome... I have a RV that will become my home in the future, and the cost of propane to heat water is CRAZY priced... Being on a limited income, This would help me a great deal, and I would never have to worry about having warm water. I'm wondering if the heating element with the built in thermostat, will it fit my Atwood XT hot water heater ? Thanks for sharing this video....
+Roger Sayers Should fit it ok.
Your welcome Roger.
if ya go propane use a on-demand , its instant and only used propane while you use hot water, showers washing dishes etc a 20 pound works heating for 6 hrs at highest heat setting (will burn skin) 12-20 hours at reasonable temps. Magiccheff makes a perfectly good one and nicely priced.
Looked into this a few yrs back when you first came out with them but solar panels were still pretty pricey but now with solar prices roughly half what they were this is a very very cost effective way to heat hot water. Your adjustable thermostat with with a pair of 330-350w solar panels is on my list of must do this yr. I should be able to heat my hot water tank(I live in FL so I should be able to 100% heat my water with 0 electricity) for around $400 with tax credit on solar panels. That is around a 1yr ROI which is crazy good and I will never need to pay to heat my hot water again.
If I understand this correctly, when hooking up a solar panel to a DC water heater you do not have to run the power through a battery first like you do for everything else?
simon, andale andale, arriba arriba, orale pues
man I no that u take a lot of time to do these videos bit I wanted to say thanks . ur the best .
I have always loved the water heating elements with the temp control, use them for my pool
Can you tell me how you are using these to heat your pool
Brutal honestly.. was a bit rough watching at the beginning. Not the most dynamic public speaker.. and the sound quality is lacking. However, this is a very educational video on a level a novice could understand. I've hit like and subscribed. Thanks so much.
(Not sure how I could completely convert to solar at present pricing and my income, but a pre-heater sounds cheap and easy. If just for that, this is an awesome video.)
Lol, i agree with ya on the public speaker. The filming has gotten much better and so has the sound since this video was put up.
Thanks for the sub Dominique
Looking forward to learning more :)
Is there an update to this setup? Does the idea still work with newer water heaters? Are there risks to just removing the AC element and installing a DC element?
Question for you.. with a 300w heating element.. does the panel have to match or maybe connect a pair of 200w panels in series or parallel..?
This sounds great. What size solar panel would you suggest to use with your dc heater element for electric water...say 40-50 gal.
Jeff can you hookup the 48 volt adjustable thermostat to a 48 volt battery bank
You need to make 48v ones to get more watts, I suggest making a 1000w one. Which would draw around 21 amps. All you need to power it would be 4x250w solar panels in series. This would heat up a proper sized tank at least, it would be a good setup. They make controllers for this, all you have to do is connect the panels to the controller and then the controller to the water heater (no need to have any batteries). It will heat your water all of a day time and the thermostat on the water heater itself will of course like these water heaters turn itself off when it reaches the right temperature and then back on if it needs to heat up again.
Here in Australia which has good sun it's very effective, but in a lot of the USA, Mexico, India, southern Europe, Africa, middle east and south east Asia and possibly southern China it also would be very effective also.
It still works even on a cloudy day, because the heater will simply be on nearly all day and put any power it can into the tank. So even on a cloudy day it may only be feeding in as low as 300w out of it's 1000w potential, but that 300w is still enough to keep the water nice and hot because it will keep pushing this heat into the tank all day.
For example if you have a 100 litre hot water tank, here in Australia the water is stored in this at about 60 Celsius. If you were to have a long shower then it's easily likely that the next day when you wake up the water inside the tank in the morning may only be 40 degrees. On a sunny day it will only take the 1000w DC element 2.5 hours to heat the water back up to it's 60 Celsius.
But if it's a cloudy day you may only get 300w, but this still will heat your water all the way back up to 60 Celsius also, but it will just take 8 hours to get it there.
Of course if you live somewhere with many cloudy days like England, then I would suggest getting 8 panels instead of 4. And have 4 in series, one row above the other and have those two rows in parallel. Then you should in theory at least get 600w of power into your element on a crappy cloudy day. Because you don't want to have just 4 panels if you have many cloudy days consecutively, but it's fine to just have 4 when living in sunny places that don't often have weeks of cloudy weather.
On a larger heater with 2 elements, could you use this for the bottom one and make it a dual heater ?? Also if you got the one with the thermostat do you just hook to the panel or do you need a charge controller ? Just found you and you have so much great info thank you for sharing !!!!!!!!!!!!
I think I just fell in love 🥰
I had to check out the website. I was pleasantly surprised by the prices.
GREAT VIDEO
I have a QUESTION.
With the 12v 300watt dc heating element how long does it take (approximately) to bring up a 35 gallon tank of water up to useful temps?
Assume we're starting around 60-degrees fahrenheit?
I know there are a lot of variables involved. Just looking for a magnitude of scale.
1 hour, 3 days, etc... I know we're talking 300 watts which is 1,023 BTUs (perfect conversion) and it takes 1 BTU to raise 1 gallon water 1 degree fahrenheit.
So the math would say (assume 100 degree increase) 100 BTU/GAL * 35 GAL = 3,500 BTUs
So Can I assume 3 hours?
I'm looking for what you experience day to day.
THANKS!!
seems like ac elements can work if you get the ohms correct - Will a 120v heating element work on 12v?
Yes, but the element will draw half the amperage (because I = V/R) and at half voltage will consume/produce one quarter of the wattage (because P = I V ). Therefore, it will take 4 times as long for the water heater to recover from use and be fully heated for the next uses.Jan 24, 2022
so question, i have a water heater that has dual elements and it has options to use both elements or 1 permanent and the other as a standby, do you think i could use this in place of the standby, and it would cause the main element (which it temp controlled) to operate less thus save money?
very informative video. In this case of the heater connections. There is not other device to install between the water heater and the solar panel?
This sounds great. What size solar panel would you suggest to use with your dc heater element for electric water...say 40-50 gal. or less as a pre-heater?
What size solar panel would I need to run an adjustable dc element on a 50-gallon electric water heater? I want to convert it to solar. Thank you so much for your videos they are so informative.
Best things to do:
1 - Email your questions to sales@windandsolar.com
2 - Call our sales team at 417-708-5359
3 - Attend a workshop - windandsolar.com/workshop/
We can get you pretty much any information you need through those channels!
Do you do individual quality testing against arc with an oscilloscope?
Another good video from Jeff and MWandS.
I try to brows your store at e bay ,but I did not see that adjustable h2o heating element ....I like to know how much the price....if I buy that h2o heating element.... how long it will take to get a hot h2o on a 20 gallon tank.....and do you have a diagram on how to hook up on an ac h2o heater tank? thank you ...8s an interesting video
This is so cool!!! Thanks for saving us a lot of money!!! Your the man Jeff!! Thanks again!! I will be ordering one!!
Lol, did you see the prices on their site? I wouldn't really say "saving money".
jeremy henderson You know - you get what you pay for. I’ve been on this earth for almost 7 decades -- found out a long time ago - you can buy something for $50 that lasts a 6 months, maybe year or two, and keep replacing it with more cheapies. Or I can buy a reputable, well known item for $125 and have it last for dozens of years without any problems. I’m not all that good in math - but I have certainly wasted enough money trying to save a few dimes or dollars to know which choice I now make. Sometimes, in life we just can’t choose the best or anyways close to best and have to go with the cheap choice. I’ve always (not sometimes) but always paid for it and regretted those purchases. If I had to go the cheap route, I vowed (and save for it) to upgrade on the next replacement. I still do that but typically I just hold off, make do until I can afford better quality even though it is more expensive - can’t always do that but that’s the plan.
rosebudforglory , I too have been on this earth for nearly 7 decades as well and have observed that you can spend any amount of money on products but the amount does not necessarily dictate the quality or longevity of a product. I have used Dernord DC elements (in several applications) for a number of years now and find them to be of high quality, in a wide spectrum of voltage and wattage and base priced around 25$. Education, research and experience are the main factors, many or most people are noob’s in the alternative energy venture and have barely a clue as far as function, energy usage and actual application. These are generally the people that overspend to compensate for their lack of understanding. Throwing money at something is rarely as redeeming as actually rolling up your sleeves and doing the work. I think it is a common misconception that you always get what you pay for.
In regards to using the existing thermostat, what is the wire there for at the end of the video? Positive or Negative? Thanks.
How many elements can a 100 watt panel run? I have several 30 gallon tubs for several separate horse pens.
hi jeff, was thinking about purchasing your variable heating element but would like to know what wattage and how many solar panels I would need to run this thanks
This is great, I was just looking into ways to get hot water off grid, Do you have any tank less options for water heating?
A Merry Christmas. May be you can help me. I do have a IBC Tank 1000 liter. I am using the IBC as a Biodigester so the water is not the cleanest with all the debris in it. I want to keep the Temperature at a constant 35 Celsius and connect a Solar Panel to it. What size??? Is this possible without additional regulators??? You input will be appreciated. I reside in the Philippines. Starting water temperature is guesstimated 18 C.
I want to heat up my trough tub that's sitting outside, will this work? I'm near KC. How much for one of those solar panels you got there?
you are worth your wait in gold my friend. thanks.
Thanks for all of your videos but Shouldn't you replace the solid wire to stranded wire?
Hi Jeff. Why couldn't you run 110 off of you inverter? With a thermostat.
Jeff, I'm planning on using one of the dc water elements this winter.. thanks for the vid.. I think this vid is an oldie but goodie.. :-)
It is an old one i just found. I lost my channel and all the videos with it a year ago.
ah, and that is the reason for the re-post.. very good info for everyone.. glad you found it so that it could be shared again.... :-)
Hello Jeff, I really enjoy your videos, Can you clarify the use of the Solar Panel to heat the water element. i have from your company a 24v Dc element and wondering how many panels i need to connect to this to heat a water heater. It appears from your video you dont connect to a battery bank or controller. Can you let me know the correct way to do this please Ross Tga NZ
Will the adjustable fit in the marathon water heater? Does anything need to be cut for it to fit.
great idea but do they have them that will fit rv waters. i was go to convert for gas only to electric also dc would be great. because im going solar. if they don't then its a good idea for off the grid people.
Very nice product?
I am using 220 / 50 hz here in Chile because this is what all my appliances are rated at. Can these be used on a 220 system? or will I have to convert the power from the Wind Turbine? I sure do appreciate these videos. Also can you provide a Celsius scale on the heater elements?
MY solar panels are producing 34.7v..what size heating DC element do I need to install on my 50 gallon water tank? Thanks
Can I hook a filament like that to a water heater that depends on oil ?
I had no idea there was such a thing. Can you put together a system that will switch and operate with grid power when there is not sufficient wind and/or solar and switch back when wind and or solar are producing again. Maybe a grid/wind/solar charge controller on a small battery bank. Water heaters sure gobble up power.
Hi Jeff, we'll this element work on my rv propane water heater, I purchased a conversation kit to run it on electricity, I also installing solar panels, it's a 1999 itasca. Thank in advance.
Can I just connect to the solar panels a d then throw the element into the tank
I want to use a spare tank for radiant heating in the basement
Can those be used as your charge dump also like you mentioned in an earlier video about wind turbines and battery banks?
hay jeff. will you send me more infow on this. im working on a big fish tank set up and I need away to heat it. win it gets cold here in what 6 weeks. if I run the water thoo a water tank with one in it turn down I think it will work. thanks David
I've bought a 600 watt MW&S element (without thermostat) that I will be running at 24 VDC. The water heater is the same or very similar that shown in this video. The video says that I can still use the water heater's thermostat. What I am wondering is if that thermostat will be OK with switching the 25 Amp load. When powered via AC the Amp load is 13.2. Note that I am going to replace all of the wires with 10 AWG.
Answer is tricky. First understand that Direct Current, especially as the voltage goes up, arcs BADLY. Big problem with contacts and switches.
The US went all through this in building battery operated naval submarines from 1910 - 1955.
What is a hot water thermostat ? A switch, and it has a rating. Now here is where it gets "messy".
A household water heater draws about 20 amps IF it is powered by 230 volts AC. With Direct Current, you calculate with Ohm's law or other electrical formulas. A standard household electric water heater holds up pretty well when wired as intended, i.e. 240 volts Alternating Current.
Alternating Current unlike Direct Current arcs much less, which is why AC is ALWAYS preferred. Are there solid state switches on the market that can can work in place of an ordinary switch or relay for DC ? Probably. Go start researching, but standard switches will fail early or weld contacts as you use higher DC voltages.
So wire size is simply about the amperage or current that the wire will carry. For more amps, wire has to be thicker.
It all goes back to Ohm's law. The amount of current that flows is determined by the supplied voltage and the resistance of the load. (Drop a screwdriver across two battery posts on a car battery and either the battery blows up, or you blow a big hole in the screwdriver) A 24 volt emergency diesel cranks with 1/2 the amperage of a 12 volt car. If the Car cranks at 160 amps, the 24 volt diesel cranks at 80 amps. The 24 volt system also DOES NOT need thicker cable because current remains the same.
The issue is NOT whether 24 volts DC will heat an appropriately matched heating element. The issue is how how you control arcing when using DC. I recommend going from DC (perhaps 48 volts) and then recreating 240 volts AC and heating just like your house does. Solves a lot of problems. Electrical calculations needs to be done to make sure the source can insure the result.
well I found that you can power a normal ac heating element with just a lower amperage element 7 amp. just need 240 volt DC so hook panels up in series.
can you design a solar and battery to keep a hot tub hot in the winter in wisconsin?
Would like to see more videos on this like see a working heater. I'm wondering if this might be used to heat a radiant hot water heater for winter heating.
Jeff,
Can you put a 12V deep draw battery in this circut to power the heating element through the night and have the solar panels recharge the battery during the day?
Can one do this?
These can be very versatile. Thanks for the informative and revealing tips.
Thanks Craig
Hi There. I Have a question... How long does it takes to heat a 50 Gallon water tank to 135 F with this 200W 6 inch 12 Volt DC with built in Thermostat element????
Does Missouri wind and power sell everything needed for this to work everything
Thanks for the great video. I think I'm going to do the set up in my water heater when I start my solar and wind turbine project.
So what ur saying is u hook up a 100watt solar panel and hook it straight up to a 12v heating element no regulator needed? Just straight to it huh wow thats a pretty amazing heating element i definitely ned one if those
SO, I can just replace my current AC elements with these and then wire to solar??
would be nice if u shown an ie, for ur whole water sys for off grid.
i have a ground lvl spring about 60 ft from my (house). i have a dc water pump (3/8 inlet/outlet) that i intend to elevate up the mountain side, for gravity fed water. ill likely go up about 30 ft. with a float switch but for now ill just hook the pump up directly to my water heater and my 150 w solar panel (directly?) to the water htr ... ill split off the water between the pump and w htr to have hot and cold water supply.
ok... what problems would i expect ? or suggestions...?
if you have a 40 gallon tank ,how many solar panels would i need to heat the water this way ? or would it be better to use a smaller water heater and if so how many solar panels would i need for the smaller one
Do you need a stepdown from 48 to 12v or inverter?
Yes I’m in Canada and I am building an off grid camper and actually living in it. I have a water heater and also I have “as you use water heater”. I would like to get a couple of your 24v adjustable heaters for use and show. Great video
It would be great to find lower temperatures to keep holding tanks from freezing in the trailers
So no charge controller needed for the 12 volt elements? so they will take up to 20 volts plus a little more then correct?
Wow very nice were I can buy the heater elements can you kindly give us were we can get thank you
Hi Luis, Give us a call 417-708-5359 or head to our website windandsolar.com
I went to the site but was unable to find the adjustable thermostat shown in the video?
Gotta get one of these....please update when available
Could I get a price on a Solar panel set up for a cattle stock tank that would work in Minnesota.
I love your videos...would you happen to recommend a water heater storage tank for a stand alone setup for say, a food cart ?
I know you've done something similar with one of those blue 5 gallon bottles but, are they rated for 190 degrees long term ?
Can the most energy efficient 12 volt instant water heater with the smallest allowable, highly insulated reservoir tank for short showers be engineered?
I have a GigaWatt 255W Solar Panel. Can I just run it into a 120 volt AC heating element? Will the 12 watt heating element you mention work with this panel without using a converter? I think the panel puts out around 37 volts. Thanks
MW&S Hello sir, I can't find the adjustable DC heating element on your web site. Also since it sticks out too far for a RV water heater can you get the temp controller to the element on the cord? Thank You and your vids are great.
Yes I’m in Canada and I am building an off grid camper and actually living in it. I have a water heater and also I have “as you use water heater”. I would like to get a couple of your 24v adjustable heaters for use and show. Great video
Those DC adjustables will be back in stock in a couple of months.
Very informative! Thank you!
hello, will these units work with just a 12v battery?
yes they will
@@MissouriWindandSolar Jeff, I have a 14,000 gal above ground pool in Wisc and pool heater options that exist are too expensive IMO. This seems like it could work as a very inexpensive alternative to the pool heaters on the market right now. Message me because I think we should talk about making a kit for pool (mostly above ground) owners across the US for this to revolutionize the pool heating industry.
i have a molded polythene water tank in my truck bed, can I use this in the same area were i fill it?
Hi Jeff , what would happen if you hook these 12volt Elements to a 24 volt Panel ?
You would double the current and therefore the power in watts. If the element can't carry the extra current it will burn out.
How can I set these up to a smaller hot water tank that feeds into my electric water heater
can the adjustable unit be in the weather. I want to add it to my roof top solar heater for cloudy cold days. but rain could get on it.
running 44 volts solar pannel to your 12 volts element i just got it and use a breaker switch ONLY GETTING 1,5 VOLTS on your 300watt //12 volts ,not getting the volts
killer stash Jeff, just great.
Jeff be the cool cat of wind
Yes Jeff I like to know how to hook up a wind turbine to create hot water can you do a video on that
any recommendations for using solar panels and heating element to heat above ground pool…. thank you.
We get this question from time to time. While on its face it seems like a great idea, heating water with solar electric is one of the tasks we try to avoid. In most instances we're going to recommend using gas as the efficiencies are difficult. The solution I would look into is solar thermal panels. The basic idea here is you're circulating the pool water through a panel that is heated by the sun - it's like a water cooler that supplies hot water for tea. The cold water goes in to thermal panel that has been heated by the sun and comes out heated. Can you use a hot water heater powered by solar, sure - but the amount of power needed to lift 1 gallon of water 1 degree (and keep it there) taken over a whole pool gets to be pretty cost prohibitive quickly.
How many amps do the solar panel needs to be?