The fact that Suisei understands the difference between revenue and profit means she's more financially literate than a lot of Hololive fans and in general, people who watch TH-cam and make casual assumptions about how much money TH-camrs make.
Remember chat, this is the same stream where she said the reasons she tends to get targeted by dramatubers and similar people are bc the Japanese economy is stagnating. She's running for the president
As soon as I saw the topic, I was curious about the comments, I'm happy to see what I see, a lot of lighthearted stuff and people that are debating are doing so in the best terms. Hololive is one of the best things that happened on the recent years. period.
The thing about tax is that it supposed to be money that we gives to govt to improve our country, let it be health, education, law and misc programme, and infrastructure that in the end, we will also enjoy its benefit. But its a novel concept that gets brutally violated when people in power decides to missuse that money, the money we spent our sweat on, for other purpose. If Japan really gets 50% income tax, their govt must work like hell to improve their citizen, something I have no idea about. I know that I not gonna enjoy whatever my tax money went to.
@@RazzySensei What? That's not true. Tourists definitely still pay taxes in Japan. They don't pay income tax, sure, but that's because tourists don't have income in Japan.
I would imagine Japan has its own "tiers" of tax liability for its citizens and residents. At the top, the highest tax bracket exists and likely subject to the highest (50%) tax rate. It used to be similar in the US before the '80s, with the highest tax brackets paying taxes around 45% and a number of other tax rules related to financial holdings and assets that may be treated in their own set of rules that the median individual is unlikely to ever need to worry about. These taxes, among other things, have been adjusted or removed... also in the 80s. Thank you Mr. Reagan for your novel economic ideas. Taxes on the upper tax bracket have been cut steadily since then - to the great approval of people in the upper tax bracket. Meanwhile economists seem to have huge blind spots as to what individuals will actually do with the moneys they retain. Same blind spots on corporate "persons". The idea being that freeing up capital by reducing tax liabilities would result in that capital being further invested to grow business, create jobs, upgrade industrial capacity, increase efficiency in logistic, and a whole lot more. Historically, this is not what has come about; it's been used for bolstering shareholder value by such means as stock buybacks. Capital projects did not benefit, investers did not hurry out to invest in people, procedures, equipment, or expansion. The bamboozle sounded reasonable and rational at the time. Unfortunately people are often irrational, at the highest level there is little to no reason not to sit on the savings. Especially in an era of predatory private equity firms. Okay this is too long. TL;dr - Never assume that people are rational actors. Where we are today started in the '80s, where at least there were brighter colors. Betting against corporate / investor greed is a bad idea. We're proper foocked.
@@derrickcrowe3888 In a lot of countries you can ask back for the VAT in the airport once you're leaving, I don't know Japan, but that's true for people that travel on any country of the European Union... Unless you're from another country of the Union, then you're like a local lmao
Look at what every Japanese politician promises, and you'll know what their problems are. It's always "I promise lower taxes, more free stuff, higher quality of public services and social programs." Every year the people see taxes go up, they see money for education and healthcare lowering. Government debt is always increasing. Defamation laws prevent the press from exposing corrupt politicians, even when they're in handcuffs. And Japanese culture will pressure the population to not make a fuss, and just act like it's normal. That only works for so long.
@@cherryr.I'm not really sure but I remember people saying that while it is good to support the girls by sending them superchats, it would be better if you just support them through merch and ticket sales. Probably the reason why is because with merch and event tickets, the girls only have the company to share the profit with unlike with superchat where YT also gets a cut. Not denying the support by using them but buying their merch and events they made themselves would be a better option if you look at it.
@@shuunosukesato4379 I see, that’s valid enough. I’ve also heard that the cut of superchats are quite big so they’re not really benefiting from it that much.
This is my interpretation. Could be wrong. I'd wager she probably disabled them because she is an ethical individual. She may feel she isn't earning it anymore. I remember a while back when Lamy was sick or MIA for a while she talked about how she didn't feel right taking people's money when she wasn't doing her job. She kept it off until she was fully back. Idk, that's my pov.
Profit, Revenue, and Pay are all different. Now that I've seen the number the fuss is about (Thanks, Yura), I still think, given how young the industry is, talent turnaround, etc, that I'd actually be okay with the talents making 400mil JPY (2.6 mil USD) a year. I'm also making the comparison to NHL contracts, mostly due to potential talent turnover but also career lifespan. They feel very similar to me, just that working for Cover is less physically dangerous.
Looking at the image Yura showed of the financial report that figure of 400mil JPY is Cover's revenue for the year divided by the number of talents. Not the yearly earnings of the talents. I didn't check the reports recently but from another comment the number given for talent reimbursement for the year was ~59mil JPY (like 400mil this would be an average figure, so top earners would earn more and some others less). That 59mil JPY would make 388k USD, which divided by 12 makes 32k. Which is still like six times the average monthly salary in the US. So yeah, Hololive talents make comfortable earnings but would not classify as actually rich the way traditionally famous people or company owners are.
Reading the financial stuff for Cover is actually pretty interesting.* *It being interesting requires being a sicko like me who likes reading about dry financial stuff First off, their income with merchandising is very seasonal with most of it coming in third and fourth quarters. (Which equates to October-March) Second, they had to pay overseas back taxes totaling 450 million yen which was listed as an extraordinary loss. At least some of it was sales taxes that they didn't collect from people buying merch.
@@TallulahSoie Eh, maybe if you are American. For most of the world "liberal" is associated with being pro-business and free trade, which means less taxes. It is the left, that being social democrats or socialists (Labour in UK) that are the ones that support higher taxes to pay for increased state spending for welfare and public infrastructure. (Good part it, it also means higher taxes for the richer rather than the rich and corporations getting tax cuts so they can make business more freely while the ordinary person has to pay more because tax cuts under Reagan/Thatcher inspired neoliberalism doesn't really trickle down to them.)
If I'm understanding my quick read of the jp tax system, the Estimated income tax prepayment has an extremely low threshold (150k yen tax paid in previous yr) and is designed to spread the tax liability over time instead of one lump sum/time - it would suck the first instance it occurs as you've just paid your last tax lump sum + the repayment, but from then on it's just the regular payment. The vast majority of people are paid a regular salary and do not use this system as their salary is already tax adjusted.
The problem is not taxes, the problem is what the government does with the money. If your government is actually using that money to improve society, then all good. I enjoy having working infrastructure, I enjoy the fact that everyone can get education, and as a Canadian, I enjoy the fact that I don't have to worry about a huge bill if I get hospitalized. As a Japanese person, Suisei should understand that too. The problem is when the government gets corrupt and that money isn't used to improve society. But then, the problem is the politicians and a lack of proper checks and balances, not so much the fact that we give the government money in and of itself.
@@Sammysapphira Yeah, there are issues for sure. Not saying our system is perfect. But when I hear stories of people being in huge debt just because they were unlucky enough to get a random serious medical issue in the US, I'm like "You know what, it's not so bad here."
45% to the amount that exceeds the tax bracket. The remainder will still be subjected to the next lower bracket. People who don't own businesses or pay their own taxes get confused with this a lot.
This is a recurring issue I've seen with big vtubers because of that combination of 'independent contractor' mindset and 'raking in tons of cash on an online job' thing plus the added 'international borders and regulations and taxes' with the overseas branches...' Hopefully Hololive provides more support in these areas than their uh, competition. Not worried there really, it would be a feat to provide less.
@RoyalFusilier Not wrong on your last point, but bloody hell by god in heaven I hope this lot are buying houses outright with their earnings (and hopefully some very safe indexed funds). They are all rather young, and gambling, debts and a frivolous lifestyle will suck up their cash fast.
I hope she gets a financial advisor or investment firm to help out on the taxes because it’s ridiculous the amount you have to pay And how they do it, not including even on about the inheritance tax issue as well which is can of worms itself
yeah once you get to a certain income level, it becomes much easier to look into tax shelters and ways to reduce tax burden. and countries (especially the us) expect any loophole they offer to be exploited by most/all able.
I am not a Japanese tax attorney so take this with a grain of salt, but my understanding is that there's three tax payments a year, each four months apart, with two prepayments and then a final payment. If the two prepayments together add up to more than your tax burden then you'll get a refund, otherwise the final payment will be the remainder of your burden. You can request the amount of the prepayment to go down mid-year if you can demonstrate your income has significantly reduced compared to the previous year.
It doesn't sound much different from having your tax deducted from your paycheck and then receiving a small difference or charge at the end of the year instead of paying a lump sum at the end. I don't speak JP so I have no clue how good of a comparison this is or isn't
she has to file taxes for both, but her us tax burden is likely $0 as the irs offers a foreign tax credit that's a $1 credit for every $1 paid in taxes to a foreign country (but only applying to foreign income).
Calli got confused with that since US and Japan has a tax treaty and as a citizen of either country, you only had to pay taxes to where you're earning from. She still has to file taxes on both though (but it will be $0 for US tax).
While it pains me to say this as a minor Hoshiyomi, since that tax money gave the world the Legendary Shinkansen and the sexy ships of the JMSDF (and billions of dollar worth of investment money from Japan to my country) I couldn’t fault the Japanese Goverment for that collecting Sui’s gacha funds😅.
Remember, guys: if Suisei really was as filthy rich as misinterpretations of the revenue numbers seem to imply, would she _really_ have hummed and hawwed about the prices of airplane tickets to the US, or about paying for an extra to take Anemachi along? Leading a life with some financial comfort is far from the same as being a fat cat.
very possibly. some people treat money incredibly differently regardless of their actual financial situation. There are brutally rich people that pinch every penny and then paycheck to paycheck people that spend without a thought. I'm not saying either is better.
The first commenter does have a point that spending habits/opinion towards spending does not necessarily depend on wealth. That said, yeah she is probably living comfortably but she's not a multi-millionaire (in USD terms that is) or anything. Especially as that "400M Yen a year in revenue per talent" figure is for *Cover's* revenue per talent, not the average income the talents have. (According to another commenter elsewhere in the comment section Cover's average talent reimbursement per talent was 59M Yen for the year, which still doesn't account for the talent's expenses such as paying for music videos, song production or 3Dlives. Let alone living expenses like taxes and rent.)
To be fair, any financially-literate person will understand what "revenue" means. I think Suisei has more grand projects than any other vtuber. There's always a ton of people that need to get paid from that revenue, most are not even Cover employees.
Nah, that's a conjob in the US. They actually covertly pay everything with CUSIP bonds created in courts. They make us pay to give the impression we have to. Everything we pay in taxes only adds up to 10% at max. Cusip bonds pay 90% or more.
The revenue per Holomem in the financial report already excluded Cover's cut but since it's an estimate average per Holomem, it's likely the top dogs earn more than 50% of that total revenue.
The 400M Yen revenue per talent actually has little to do with what the talents make or Cover's cuts because that figure is already for *Cover's* yearly revenue, simply divided by the number of talents for illustrative purposes of how much a talent is monetarily worth to the company on average (the other commenters point about this being an average and top earners likely making a good portion of it is not incorrect however). The revenue the talents actually make for themselves is more covered in the financial report's "talent reimbursement" section (which is apparently 59M Yen per talent for the year (again, same point about this being an average and top earners making more and others less still applies)).
Bro, even Millionaires worked HARD to be in their current standings. They dont become Millionaires because God just granted it to them outta nowhere. If you read their biography, a LOT of them started out dirt poor, selling soaps door to door, or worked as property marketing staffs.
I like hololive, and i dont have nothing agains Suisei, but even if the taxes take 50% and Hololive 45% of the 400M ¥, she would earn 4 times more that salary average in 2023 by the first google site that i found when i googled Even if the half of the 5% would go to the things that are not "really profit", she would have the salary average of a japanese average according to the ramdon site Now if we think that the money go the things publics i would say that there nothing wrong with that, if we think that this go to the corrupts politics, i would agree with Su. If i use 🤓 and 🤡 they cant use it against me Sorry the shitty english, not native speaker
i think it's less a problem of taxes and more what suisei is saying the actual model is punishing business that move more money around rather than those who get to keep that money. i have no idea why Japan would be like that, it makes no sense. maybe that's why Japan has all these shady conglomerates to mask money movement
Yes, japan is 2nd in worldwide for highest tax which is insane. IMO Tax is just a system made for humans to limit our progression in life but not exactly for each individuals. They just use the term "Giving back to society" to take a portion of your hard-earned money.
Go look up the countries with the lowest tax rates and see if they have progressed better than the high tax rate places. 😂 Governance is much more complex than low/high tax rates.
@@RejectHumanityReturn2Monke No one said lower tax places are doing better, they have their own problems and tax is just one of the many. Maybe learn to read before jumping to conclusions. High or Low tax, people are still falling behind to pay their taxes. Lower tax doesn't mean their cost of living is lower or is able to save up more. Tax are still limiting your cash gain, those are hard facts.
@@SuiSuki0322 But you are only going on that one fact especially with the emphasis on 'hard earned'. It is quintessentially a neutral selfish perspective but one that has been used to mislead the public into your kind of wording. EDIT: Spelling
@@comradeofthebalance3147 Misleading? If you see money so lightly, why don't you donate your money away? If you're that self-less, why aren't you doing something for the society to help the needy? Don't slap your own face with your quintessentially neutral selfish perspective.
I don't disagree but it is important to recognise that while Hololive vtubers make comfortable livings and are decently well off, they are not actually rich in the way traditionally famous actors, musicians, star athletes and businessmen are. (And while she talks about how a bunch of her earnings go to taxes I think the more important point is that Hololive talents don't actually make 400M Yen a year. That figure is Cover's yearly revenue as a company divided by the number of talents, not what the talents actually earn.)
@@gokbay3057 I know the difference between revenue and profit. That aside, even assuming they were making 400m yen per year, a 50% tax is more than reasonable. You can only get as wealthy as the society you live in can support. The people who benefit most from an advanced society should be the ones who pay the most to maintain it, and if that means having to make do with a mere 1.3m USD/year instead of 2.6m, well, I'm sure you'll survive.
@@firstnamelastname8439 True, my main point is that while she talks about taxes taking her money in the video that what I got as what she was trying to say and the main point of the video was not "taxes are bad" but more "we are not actually rich, we don't make that much money". I think she's talking about taxes in a more joking way rather than fully genuinely. Because yeah, forget the 400M Yen figure, even going with 59M Yen from Cover's talent reimbursement and applying a 50% rate there (and from the video Japan's top tax bracket rate is 45% and 59M may well be below that bracket) would mean 29.5M Yen, which is still nearly five times the average Japanese yearly salary. And while I don't know the living costs of Japan seems quite enough to live comfortably.
It isnt, those things dont cost too much to maintain, their high tax are to cover for huge social security deficit and public debt mostly. Basicaly misuse of state powers. No nation needs high taxes to offer a good life for its citizens.
@RoyalFusilier who wants to spent on necessities like infrastructure and services, when you can instead spend it prop up israel and ukraine, directly or indirectly. Thats the american way, right?
That's what happened if someone doesn't know how to read financial report babbling about it on internet. I hope cover sue that person for misinformation.
IDK if it's _defamatory_ though, which would be easier to sue for. I haven't seen the report but it seems like someone might have extrapolated a number, which reminds me of the days when we thought that super chat totals were a good indication of revenue to a talent. But you know, those reports are out there and any liar could figure with 'em. Right thing to do is to just call it out as nonsense if it comes up since you're not gonna stop people from guessing.
The thing is if you listen to what Suisei actually says, then nothing is actually misinformation. Cover on their financial report lists the average monthly payout to talents. However, as Suisei says that is just their gross revenue or income and not including her expenses for music videos, etc. However, her expenses doesn't actually matter if we're just talking about someone's income number. Cover pays talent X amount of money which is factual and on the report. What that talent then does with that money is their own personal expenses and will be different for each talent. I'm not sure why this is suddenly being brought up now as Cover has been listing this average monthly talent payout on their financial docs for a while now, so it's nothing new.
@@HudaefCares It's not that complicated. Let's say at your job you made 50k/year, but you had expenses such as paying for gas to get to work and buying lunch every day. Those expenses don't change the fact that your salary is 50k/year despite your expenses lowering your take home pay. In Suisei's case her expenses are music videos, etc, but it still doesn't change her income number received from cover, so yes her take home amount is lower after expenses, but that's true for everyone in life. The income number isn't wrong though or misinformation because it's just the raw number not taking expenses into account.
@@TheRover87 The 400M yen per talent number that's being used is the company's total revenue from the last four quarters combined divided by the current number of talents (Fuwawa Abyssgard and Mococo Abyssgard, who share a channel, are counted as one for the purposes of this calculation). If a news article tried to portray that number as each talent's income, then that definitely gets into the realm of a lawsuit because portraying them as that wealthy would definitely cause damage to them in the form of people not wanting to give them money thinking they're too rich. The closer, but still inaccurate, number for average per-talent annual income based on the last four quarters worth of talent remuneration in the financial documents is ~59M yen, a little under an order of magnitude difference. This is an average so some earn more and some earn less. This is pre-tax, so expect at least 30% of that to go to the government. And that number includes business expenses that come out of the talent's pockets--like paying for 3D lives, music videos, merch, etc--that you need to discount when trying to calculate just how much they're taking home if you're trying to compare them to a "normal" job.
Not a single country in the world has tax-free food, nor any of the others. European free healthcare sucks, that's why Europeans love to do healthcare tourism. The government will always mismanage and waste your money more than you would.
France used to have prepaid taxes spread through the year as well. If you paid too much they deducted from next year, if you didn't pay enough they immediately ask you for more. Now it's "source deducted", so you never get the money in the first place. At least you don't get a false sense of financial security in the most taxed country in the world 🫠
![Suisei's Manager Thinks She Should Pile On Less Work (Hoshimachi Suisei /Hololive) [Eng Subs]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/PAHFmplLGKY/mqdefault.jpg)
![Suisei's Manager Thinks She Should Pile On Less Work (Hoshimachi Suisei /Hololive) [Eng Subs]](/img/tr.png)
![Laplus Answers This Question... & Talks Of Her Experience Vtubing At Hololive [Eng Subs]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/0YpIWxEKxD8/mqdefault.jpg)
hoshimachi 'tax evasion' suisei
She'll be helped out by Pekora "The Corruptionist" Usada.
“I don’t care who the IRS sends I am not paying my taxes.” Hoshimachi Suisei, 2024
Nah, even the joker ain't fucking with IRS.
Ol' Al got put away for not paying taxes.
You don't screw around with taxes.
That's how they take down the mafia and cartels.
IRS?
IRYs at it again huh
@@hazhazim5535 That joke was made around her debut to the extent that one of the popular suggestions for her fanname was taxpayers.
IRS breaking into the door “It prison time then”
The fact that Suisei understands the difference between revenue and profit means she's more financially literate than a lot of Hololive fans and in general, people who watch TH-cam and make casual assumptions about how much money TH-camrs make.
Those same people speak volumes about speculated earnings, while conveniently pretending they don't know about something called expenses.
Suisei seems like the highest revenue and the highest expense talent there
"The only things certain in life are death, taxes, and falling into the Holo Rabbithole."
-Benjamin Franklin
" The only things certain in life are death, taxes, and Samsung."
-A South Korean
Remember chat, this is the same stream where she said the reasons she tends to get targeted by dramatubers and similar people are bc the Japanese economy is stagnating. She's running for the president
Taxes are just red super chat in real life but you're not sending it to your oshi.
You don't wanna know how much of it goes to Vtweeters
Except if your country is your oshi
@@myfaceismyshield5963 I mean, I guess one could consider nationalists to be gachikois for their country.
@@gokbay3057 TIL that nationalist is the gachikoi. All this time i thought patriotist was the gachikoi, but turns out patriotist is the sensible fans.
@@myfaceismyshield5963It aint.
adultmachi
Even today suisei still cute!
Taxes still high too!
The cute comet still human after all
Suisei president when?
I will surely rouse people by playing her song pathfinder on the street and vote her for sure😂
Suisei 2028 ☄️
Gets interesting cause she mentioned having japan election talk with her live bandmates recently lol
Seems Sui-chan is on her politicized route. I wonder who she voted for, though I bet it wasn't for the LDP (we will never know though lol)
@@arthurrin201 Pathfinder is so underrated man... It's such a good song but overshadowed by other songs she released at the same time
Welcome to adulthood.
Some are necessary evil. Many are not.
Majima shouldn't have talked to that guy in Yakuza 0 regarding taxes.
The sui rages about taxes, how rare
"Except for death and paying taxes, everything in life is only for now." - A certain song in Avenue Q
Last Yura clip: blames economic downturn for unhappy society
Now: rages against taxes
If this continues, she may just stage an uprising..
Boy I'm ready!!
I'll prepare my torch and pitchforks
I'm sure the Americans bros is having a blast watching her rant
Glad that it is not just us Kaigainiki who occasionally misread Cover financial report but JP niki as well lol. Yeah revenue and profit are different
I remember towa and polka talk about that 400M yen too
As soon as I saw the topic, I was curious about the comments, I'm happy to see what I see, a lot of lighthearted stuff and people that are debating are doing so in the best terms. Hololive is one of the best things that happened on the recent years. period.
The thing about tax is that it supposed to be money that we gives to govt to improve our country, let it be health, education, law and misc programme, and infrastructure that in the end, we will also enjoy its benefit. But its a novel concept that gets brutally violated when people in power decides to missuse that money, the money we spent our sweat on, for other purpose.
If Japan really gets 50% income tax, their govt must work like hell to improve their citizen, something I have no idea about. I know that I not gonna enjoy whatever my tax money went to.
and tourist gets tax free when they visit Japan too so it's all from the locals
@@RazzySensei What? That's not true. Tourists definitely still pay taxes in Japan.
They don't pay income tax, sure, but that's because tourists don't have income in Japan.
I would imagine Japan has its own "tiers" of tax liability for its citizens and residents. At the top, the highest tax bracket exists and likely subject to the highest (50%) tax rate. It used to be similar in the US before the '80s, with the highest tax brackets paying taxes around 45% and a number of other tax rules related to financial holdings and assets that may be treated in their own set of rules that the median individual is unlikely to ever need to worry about. These taxes, among other things, have been adjusted or removed... also in the 80s. Thank you Mr. Reagan for your novel economic ideas. Taxes on the upper tax bracket have been cut steadily since then - to the great approval of people in the upper tax bracket. Meanwhile economists seem to have huge blind spots as to what individuals will actually do with the moneys they retain. Same blind spots on corporate "persons". The idea being that freeing up capital by reducing tax liabilities would result in that capital being further invested to grow business, create jobs, upgrade industrial capacity, increase efficiency in logistic, and a whole lot more. Historically, this is not what has come about; it's been used for bolstering shareholder value by such means as stock buybacks. Capital projects did not benefit, investers did not hurry out to invest in people, procedures, equipment, or expansion. The bamboozle sounded reasonable and rational at the time. Unfortunately people are often irrational, at the highest level there is little to no reason not to sit on the savings. Especially in an era of predatory private equity firms.
Okay this is too long.
TL;dr - Never assume that people are rational actors. Where we are today started in the '80s, where at least there were brighter colors. Betting against corporate / investor greed is a bad idea. We're proper foocked.
@@derrickcrowe3888 In a lot of countries you can ask back for the VAT in the airport once you're leaving, I don't know Japan, but that's true for people that travel on any country of the European Union... Unless you're from another country of the Union, then you're like a local lmao
Look at what every Japanese politician promises, and you'll know what their problems are. It's always "I promise lower taxes, more free stuff, higher quality of public services and social programs." Every year the people see taxes go up, they see money for education and healthcare lowering. Government debt is always increasing. Defamation laws prevent the press from exposing corrupt politicians, even when they're in handcuffs. And Japanese culture will pressure the population to not make a fuss, and just act like it's normal. That only works for so long.
she really said TAXATION IS THEFT my oshi💙
Open a Suiseiland
Spoken like a true politician, I'm proud of you sui-chan
Majima Fricks up taxation
hoshiyomis using suiseis hate for taxes to trick her into opening the superchats
I mean superchats are worse, since YT taxes 30% immediately
I rather pay taxes and have a functioning social security system and infrastructure than having to pay out of my butt for everything individually...
"Functioning"
Young, immature Suisei: chopping heads cause it’s fun
Older, wiser Suisei: chopping heads for the revolution
Miko-chi : Tax evasion is a crime, Sui-chan!
Sui-chan : No, Miko-chi! It's an OBLIGATION!
"tax evasion is a crime suisei !"
"ITS AN OBLIGATION"
One more reason to add if people ask why Suisei is my kamioshi
Gura: I’m something of a Tax Evasion myself
I forgot Suisei had closed off Superchats
Now half of Suisei's precious Bibideba money is not with her anymore 😔
We need to call the akasupa squad right now
She closed supas. Only merch and ticket now, and there are a lot.
@@zerospiconmay I ask why she closed it? Is it so we mainly support her through merch and concert or did she have any other reason?
@@cherryr.I'm not really sure but I remember people saying that while it is good to support the girls by sending them superchats, it would be better if you just support them through merch and ticket sales. Probably the reason why is because with merch and event tickets, the girls only have the company to share the profit with unlike with superchat where YT also gets a cut. Not denying the support by using them but buying their merch and events they made themselves would be a better option if you look at it.
@@shuunosukesato4379 I see, that’s valid enough. I’ve also heard that the cut of superchats are quite big so they’re not really benefiting from it that much.
This is my interpretation. Could be wrong.
I'd wager she probably disabled them because she is an ethical individual. She may feel she isn't earning it anymore.
I remember a while back when Lamy was sick or MIA for a while she talked about how she didn't feel right taking people's money when she wasn't doing her job. She kept it off until she was fully back.
Idk, that's my pov.
her profits are going to gacha games anyway
Hahaha Suisei, welcome to the real world.
Revenue is very important, but there’s a lot of red numbers under it that make everything else possible.
This. This is true.
The financial success to anarcho capitalism pipeline.
This is definitely an adult topic. You can't say you're not an adult when this word came out of your mouth...
Taxes truly are a pain wherever you are...
Profit, Revenue, and Pay are all different.
Now that I've seen the number the fuss is about (Thanks, Yura), I still think, given how young the industry is, talent turnaround, etc, that I'd actually be okay with the talents making 400mil JPY (2.6 mil USD) a year. I'm also making the comparison to NHL contracts, mostly due to potential talent turnover but also career lifespan. They feel very similar to me, just that working for Cover is less physically dangerous.
Looking at the image Yura showed of the financial report that figure of 400mil JPY is Cover's revenue for the year divided by the number of talents. Not the yearly earnings of the talents. I didn't check the reports recently but from another comment the number given for talent reimbursement for the year was ~59mil JPY (like 400mil this would be an average figure, so top earners would earn more and some others less).
That 59mil JPY would make 388k USD, which divided by 12 makes 32k. Which is still like six times the average monthly salary in the US.
So yeah, Hololive talents make comfortable earnings but would not classify as actually rich the way traditionally famous people or company owners are.
日本の平均年収は４３３万円です。
@@gokbay3057And this is how I relearn that I had sold my soul to a company for 36-38k a year.
And it wasn’t enough to live comfortably in my area.
Sui-chan would be the perfect rep for the flat tax because...
Reading the financial stuff for Cover is actually pretty interesting.*
*It being interesting requires being a sicko like me who likes reading about dry financial stuff
First off, their income with merchandising is very seasonal with most of it coming in third and fourth quarters. (Which equates to October-March)
Second, they had to pay overseas back taxes totaling 450 million yen which was listed as an extraordinary loss. At least some of it was sales taxes that they didn't collect from people buying merch.
there's this saying: everyone becomes libertarian when the tax man comes 😂
2:02 suffering from success
"Everyone is liberal until they have to pay taxes." Or some such variation.
@@TallulahSoie Eh, maybe if you are American.
For most of the world "liberal" is associated with being pro-business and free trade, which means less taxes. It is the left, that being social democrats or socialists (Labour in UK) that are the ones that support higher taxes to pay for increased state spending for welfare and public infrastructure. (Good part it, it also means higher taxes for the richer rather than the rich and corporations getting tax cuts so they can make business more freely while the ordinary person has to pay more because tax cuts under Reagan/Thatcher inspired neoliberalism doesn't really trickle down to them.)
And most of it went to elderly health care🙃🙃🙃
*laughs in highest income tax rate in SEA* First time?
If I'm understanding my quick read of the jp tax system, the Estimated income tax prepayment has an extremely low threshold (150k yen tax paid in previous yr) and is designed to spread the tax liability over time instead of one lump sum/time - it would suck the first instance it occurs as you've just paid your last tax lump sum + the repayment, but from then on it's just the regular payment. The vast majority of people are paid a regular salary and do not use this system as their salary is already tax adjusted.
Taxation is THEFT so says the pirate
the sad and harsh reality 😂
I mean i don't mind to pay taxes.
I hate just how complicated it is in other countrys with declaring the tax.
The problem is not taxes, the problem is what the government does with the money.
If your government is actually using that money to improve society, then all good. I enjoy having working infrastructure, I enjoy the fact that everyone can get education, and as a Canadian, I enjoy the fact that I don't have to worry about a huge bill if I get hospitalized. As a Japanese person, Suisei should understand that too.
The problem is when the government gets corrupt and that money isn't used to improve society. But then, the problem is the politicians and a lack of proper checks and balances, not so much the fact that we give the government money in and of itself.
"How things are" vs. "How they should be", a classic
As a Canadian you won't get the bill because the hospital has 6 month waiting lists
@@Sammysapphira Yeah, there are issues for sure. Not saying our system is perfect. But when I hear stories of people being in huge debt just because they were unlucky enough to get a random serious medical issue in the US, I'm like "You know what, it's not so bad here."
My libertarian oshi ❤
Just out of curiosity, I looked up how much 400 mill YEN is in Australian dollars. 3.86 million.
Only two things are constant in this world: taxes and what happens when you call Sui-chan fla-
You guys never learn do you…
o7 🙏, another hoshiyomi cut down by the golden axe...
rip lmao cleanup squad will arive shortly~
Cleanup squad reporting. How many corpses are we cleaning up today?
well, if the taxes work for the citizens then i as the taxpayer won't complain... but the situation is not very ideal, i guess.
45%?!?!?!
45% to the amount that exceeds the tax bracket. The remainder will still be subjected to the next lower bracket. People who don't own businesses or pay their own taxes get confused with this a lot.
I just love the term "Bibidiba money" XD
If she's calculating her own tax at this point there's real problems.
This is a recurring issue I've seen with big vtubers because of that combination of 'independent contractor' mindset and 'raking in tons of cash on an online job' thing plus the added 'international borders and regulations and taxes' with the overseas branches...' Hopefully Hololive provides more support in these areas than their uh, competition. Not worried there really, it would be a feat to provide less.
@RoyalFusilier Not wrong on your last point, but bloody hell by god in heaven I hope this lot are buying houses outright with their earnings (and hopefully some very safe indexed funds).
They are all rather young, and gambling, debts and a frivolous lifestyle will suck up their cash fast.
@@imonlysleeping4491Roboco bought a house for her parents, and she should be in the lower bracket.
Sounds just like Cali and our unnecessarily high taxes 😢
I hope she gets a financial advisor or investment firm to help out on the taxes because it’s ridiculous the amount you have to pay
And how they do it, not including even on about the inheritance tax issue as well which is can of worms itself
yeah once you get to a certain income level, it becomes much easier to look into tax shelters and ways to reduce tax burden. and countries (especially the us) expect any loophole they offer to be exploited by most/all able.
I don’t think they have to worry about inheritance anytime soon mate
Korone might have a point with her answer of not paying any taxes in that one party game a while ago.
And give up on being a citizen as Okayu said 😂
So when we getting Suisei throwing tea into a harbor?
Wtf is prepaid tax? Calculating how much tax income a person make next year? So if that person can't make to the calculated number the money gone?
I am not a Japanese tax attorney so take this with a grain of salt, but my understanding is that there's three tax payments a year, each four months apart, with two prepayments and then a final payment. If the two prepayments together add up to more than your tax burden then you'll get a refund, otherwise the final payment will be the remainder of your burden. You can request the amount of the prepayment to go down mid-year if you can demonstrate your income has significantly reduced compared to the previous year.
It doesn't sound much different from having your tax deducted from your paycheck and then receiving a small difference or charge at the end of the year instead of paying a lump sum at the end.
I don't speak JP so I have no clue how good of a comparison this is or isn't
When it comes to taxes, everyone becomes a libertarian.
Ron Paul 2012. End the fed, etc.
Same
wait, since when did sui-chan closed superchat?
Like since May at least (and she was on a break through April, not sure of her superchats were open back then).
She rages about taxes but little did she knows Suitax is the highest out there 😢
At least she doesn't have to do double taxes like Calli then she'd really rage
she has to file taxes for both, but her us tax burden is likely $0 as the irs offers a foreign tax credit that's a $1 credit for every $1 paid in taxes to a foreign country (but only applying to foreign income).
Calli got confused with that since US and Japan has a tax treaty and as a citizen of either country, you only had to pay taxes to where you're earning from. She still has to file taxes on both though (but it will be $0 for US tax).
Is taxes really high in Japan?
While it pains me to say this as a minor Hoshiyomi, since that tax money gave the world the Legendary Shinkansen and the sexy ships of the JMSDF (and billions of dollar worth of investment money from Japan to my country) I couldn’t fault the Japanese Goverment for that collecting Sui’s gacha funds😅.
And when you don't tax rich people enough, you get crumbling infrastructure in the country where most of the top ten richest people in the world live.
We will turn her into a libertarian soon.
Remember, guys: if Suisei really was as filthy rich as misinterpretations of the revenue numbers seem to imply, would she _really_ have hummed and hawwed about the prices of airplane tickets to the US, or about paying for an extra to take Anemachi along?
Leading a life with some financial comfort is far from the same as being a fat cat.
very possibly. some people treat money incredibly differently regardless of their actual financial situation. There are brutally rich people that pinch every penny and then paycheck to paycheck people that spend without a thought. I'm not saying either is better.
@asdffsdafdsafdsa7877 Check Suisei's gacha spendings. A miser, she is not. lmao
The first commenter does have a point that spending habits/opinion towards spending does not necessarily depend on wealth.
That said, yeah she is probably living comfortably but she's not a multi-millionaire (in USD terms that is) or anything.
Especially as that "400M Yen a year in revenue per talent" figure is for *Cover's* revenue per talent, not the average income the talents have. (According to another commenter elsewhere in the comment section Cover's average talent reimbursement per talent was 59M Yen for the year, which still doesn't account for the talent's expenses such as paying for music videos, song production or 3Dlives. Let alone living expenses like taxes and rent.)
To be fair, any financially-literate person will understand what "revenue" means. I think Suisei has more grand projects than any other vtuber. There's always a ton of people that need to get paid from that revenue, most are not even Cover employees.
@dkosmari The unfortunate part is that VERY few people in the fandom are financially literate, or smart enough to stop and think about the difference.
Taxes are what maintain society.
Nah, that's a conjob in the US. They actually covertly pay everything with CUSIP bonds created in courts. They make us pay to give the impression we have to. Everything we pay in taxes only adds up to 10% at max. Cusip bonds pay 90% or more.
@@Arthirias This could go either way but I shall entertain this for the sake of education. Could you elaborate on this 'CUPIS' bonds?
Let's, at least, hope that those taxes will bring her a happy and wealthy retirement.
Nah they wont give you wealthy retirement
No it won't, Japan is already struggling to pay its current batch of retirees.
To government officials, yes. Very happy and wealthy.
@sunshineskystar Oh, well then, r.i.p.
30% goes to hololive
The revenue per Holomem in the financial report already excluded Cover's cut but since it's an estimate average per Holomem, it's likely the top dogs earn more than 50% of that total revenue.
The 400M Yen revenue per talent actually has little to do with what the talents make or Cover's cuts because that figure is already for *Cover's* yearly revenue, simply divided by the number of talents for illustrative purposes of how much a talent is monetarily worth to the company on average (the other commenters point about this being an average and top earners likely making a good portion of it is not incorrect however).
The revenue the talents actually make for themselves is more covered in the financial report's "talent reimbursement" section (which is apparently 59M Yen per talent for the year (again, same point about this being an average and top earners making more and others less still applies)).
Based. No taxation without representation.
Thank you Japan for having good tax rates on millionaires
Bro, even Millionaires worked HARD to be in their current standings. They dont become Millionaires because God just granted it to them outta nowhere. If you read their biography, a LOT of them started out dirt poor, selling soaps door to door, or worked as property marketing staffs.
Sui for leader for less taxes!
I like hololive, and i dont have nothing agains Suisei, but even if the taxes take 50% and Hololive 45% of the 400M ¥, she would earn 4 times more that salary average in 2023 by the first google site that i found when i googled
Even if the half of the 5% would go to the things that are not "really profit", she would have the salary average of a japanese average according to the ramdon site
Now if we think that the money go the things publics i would say that there nothing wrong with that, if we think that this go to the corrupts politics, i would agree with Su.
If i use 🤓 and 🤡 they cant use it against me
Sorry the shitty english, not native speaker
it's revenue not profit
i think it's less a problem of taxes and more what suisei is saying the actual model is punishing business that move more money around rather than those who get to keep that money. i have no idea why Japan would be like that, it makes no sense. maybe that's why Japan has all these shady conglomerates to mask money movement
YKZ & lack of transparencies from their govt
Yes, japan is 2nd in worldwide for highest tax which is insane. IMO Tax is just a system made for humans to limit our progression in life but not exactly for each individuals. They just use the term "Giving back to society" to take a portion of your hard-earned money.
Go look up the countries with the lowest tax rates and see if they have progressed better than the high tax rate places. 😂
Governance is much more complex than low/high tax rates.
@@RejectHumanityReturn2Monke No one said lower tax places are doing better, they have their own problems and tax is just one of the many. Maybe learn to read before jumping to conclusions.
High or Low tax, people are still falling behind to pay their taxes. Lower tax doesn't mean their cost of living is lower or is able to save up more. Tax are still limiting your cash gain, those are hard facts.
@@SuiSuki0322 But you are only going on that one fact especially with the emphasis on 'hard earned'. It is quintessentially a neutral selfish perspective but one that has been used to mislead the public into your kind of wording.
EDIT: Spelling
@@comradeofthebalance3147 Misleading? If you see money so lightly, why don't you donate your money away? If you're that self-less, why aren't you doing something for the society to help the needy?
Don't slap your own face with your quintessentially neutral selfish perspective.
I have no sympathy for high earners whining about taxes, even if it's a cute anime girl.
I don't disagree but it is important to recognise that while Hololive vtubers make comfortable livings and are decently well off, they are not actually rich in the way traditionally famous actors, musicians, star athletes and businessmen are.
(And while she talks about how a bunch of her earnings go to taxes I think the more important point is that Hololive talents don't actually make 400M Yen a year. That figure is Cover's yearly revenue as a company divided by the number of talents, not what the talents actually earn.)
@@gokbay3057 I know the difference between revenue and profit.
That aside, even assuming they were making 400m yen per year, a 50% tax is more than reasonable.
You can only get as wealthy as the society you live in can support. The people who benefit most from an advanced society should be the ones who pay the most to maintain it, and if that means having to make do with a mere 1.3m USD/year instead of 2.6m, well, I'm sure you'll survive.
@@firstnamelastname8439 True, my main point is that while she talks about taxes taking her money in the video that what I got as what she was trying to say and the main point of the video was not "taxes are bad" but more "we are not actually rich, we don't make that much money". I think she's talking about taxes in a more joking way rather than fully genuinely.
Because yeah, forget the 400M Yen figure, even going with 59M Yen from Cover's talent reimbursement and applying a 50% rate there (and from the video Japan's top tax bracket rate is 45% and 59M may well be below that bracket) would mean 29.5M Yen, which is still nearly five times the average Japanese yearly salary. And while I don't know the living costs of Japan seems quite enough to live comfortably.
Thus is the trade-off of having cheaper health care for everyone in your country, as it ahnd other policies result in higher taxes.
Yep. At least they get something for it, a society that can still pass as functional. Americans pay for dysfunction apparently and also all the wars.
It isnt, those things dont cost too much to maintain, their high tax are to cover for huge social security deficit and public debt mostly. Basicaly misuse of state powers. No nation needs high taxes to offer a good life for its citizens.
@RoyalFusilier who wants to spent on necessities like infrastructure and services, when you can instead spend it prop up israel and ukraine, directly or indirectly. Thats the american way, right?
Says the person that's about to get a 25% bonus tax on everything for the next 4 years
That's what happened if someone doesn't know how to read financial report babbling about it on internet. I hope cover sue that person for misinformation.
IDK if it's _defamatory_ though, which would be easier to sue for. I haven't seen the report but it seems like someone might have extrapolated a number, which reminds me of the days when we thought that super chat totals were a good indication of revenue to a talent.
But you know, those reports are out there and any liar could figure with 'em. Right thing to do is to just call it out as nonsense if it comes up since you're not gonna stop people from guessing.
The thing is if you listen to what Suisei actually says, then nothing is actually misinformation. Cover on their financial report lists the average monthly payout to talents. However, as Suisei says that is just their gross revenue or income and not including her expenses for music videos, etc. However, her expenses doesn't actually matter if we're just talking about someone's income number. Cover pays talent X amount of money which is factual and on the report. What that talent then does with that money is their own personal expenses and will be different for each talent.
I'm not sure why this is suddenly being brought up now as Cover has been listing this average monthly talent payout on their financial docs for a while now, so it's nothing new.
I don't think it's misinformation so much as it's a misunderstanding of what revenue means.
...Not gonna pretend I know either tho lol
@@HudaefCares It's not that complicated. Let's say at your job you made 50k/year, but you had expenses such as paying for gas to get to work and buying lunch every day. Those expenses don't change the fact that your salary is 50k/year despite your expenses lowering your take home pay. In Suisei's case her expenses are music videos, etc, but it still doesn't change her income number received from cover, so yes her take home amount is lower after expenses, but that's true for everyone in life. The income number isn't wrong though or misinformation because it's just the raw number not taking expenses into account.
@@TheRover87 The 400M yen per talent number that's being used is the company's total revenue from the last four quarters combined divided by the current number of talents (Fuwawa Abyssgard and Mococo Abyssgard, who share a channel, are counted as one for the purposes of this calculation). If a news article tried to portray that number as each talent's income, then that definitely gets into the realm of a lawsuit because portraying them as that wealthy would definitely cause damage to them in the form of people not wanting to give them money thinking they're too rich.
The closer, but still inaccurate, number for average per-talent annual income based on the last four quarters worth of talent remuneration in the financial documents is ~59M yen, a little under an order of magnitude difference. This is an average so some earn more and some earn less. This is pre-tax, so expect at least 30% of that to go to the government. And that number includes business expenses that come out of the talent's pockets--like paying for 3D lives, music videos, merch, etc--that you need to discount when trying to calculate just how much they're taking home if you're trying to compare them to a "normal" job.
Tax is fine as long as basic necessities in life are not taxed, eg food, education, healthcare, public transport
I am personally fine with taxes if they are used to provide said basic necessities (how European free education and healthcare works).
Not a single country in the world has tax-free food, nor any of the others. European free healthcare sucks, that's why Europeans love to do healthcare tourism. The government will always mismanage and waste your money more than you would.
45%? That's so low tbh, realistically the highest bracket should be closer to 90% to be fair, nobody needs that much money...
France used to have prepaid taxes spread through the year as well. If you paid too much they deducted from next year, if you didn't pay enough they immediately ask you for more.
Now it's "source deducted", so you never get the money in the first place. At least you don't get a false sense of financial security in the most taxed country in the world 🫠