What really excited me when this came out in wayfinders was that as a non heavy two handed weapon, my Halfling Fighter could use it with GWF Fighting Style.
@@M0ebius It depends on the image you're trying to role-play with too. I've seen a lot of Halfling barbarians swinging a weapon too big for them and it can be freaking scary.
Don't forget Hexblade Pact of the Blade & making this your Pact weapon. I have a Wood Elf Rogue 5/Hexblade 5 that uses the Revenant Double-Bladed Scimitar. I love this build.
I know that this comment is pretty old, but I am curious: One of Warlock's best options for increasing damage is the Hex spell. Obviously this has the same issues that Hunter's Mark had for using it with the Double Bladed Scimitar, in that they compete for your bonus action, in addition to Cunning Action already wanting that bonus action. How did you find this played out in your game? Did you just not take Hex, or did you give it a shot?
@@Kurse_of_Kall it works just fine with either outside of white room gaming. Save hex/mark for bigger enemies who take multiple hits, you loose 1 hit once and then tear it a new ass afterwards.
@@Kurse_of_Kall The new Favoured Foe in Tasha's for Ranger is the way to go of course. Doesn't cost your bonus action to activate and by 6th its equal to Hex/Hunter's Mark's d6 and surpasses it to a d8 at 14th if you go that high in Ranger and since you don't have to take the Dual wield fighting style, you are free to pick up something else like Defense or Great Weapon style (No restriction for heavy here, only that it's being used 2-handed) OR you can do what I do and take the new Blind Fighting style and start abusing Fog Cloud very early on lol. Your choice of Sub-class depends on what you combo it with. Gloomstalker (of course lol but you can definitely make other Subs work too) is probably your best overall choice for both Rogue and/or Fighter really. Obviously your superiority in the dark providing advantage almost at will for Sneaks is always a good thing. Action Surge from Fighter RAW gives you your Dread Ambusher free attack with an extra d8 twice in your opening round so that's always an option to think about. AS Treant stated, picking Monk still has some benefits, especially in the mobility department, but anytime you want to carry over into a Monk using a weapon with the Heavy or Special property, you limit the gains. Also Monk abilities often compete for your Bonus action.
Since Monsters of the Multiverse came out, you can now more easily do Rogue Double Scimitar with any elf since the updated Trance trait would allow you effectively permanent proficiency. Which means Booming Blade with High Elf is probably the way to go so you can flex between Scimitar and Booming when you need offense or defense.
One of my issues with you’re videos focused on beating the baseline damage has been the lack of regard for abilities that keep you and others alive to keep delivering that damage. I’m glad you acknowledged that a bit in this video with the realization that losing your cunning action for the extra damage my be detrimental over all. Good analysis video
My impression was always that 'baseline damage' was more about characters whose primary combat contribution *is* dealing damage. Pretty sure Treantmonk would agree that a wizard who spends most of their actions on buff/debuff/& battlefield control spells is contributing perfectly well even if their damage output is radically below the baseline. Similar could be said for a cleric character who manages a lot of buffs & debuffs, and spends bonus actions waking up unconscious allies rather than making additional attacks. The problem with something like single classed alchemist isn't just that they don't hit baseline damage output, but that they're not really doing all that much of anything else, either, and what support they do offer mostly comes from core class features - regular artificer spells and item creation, things that the other artificer subclasses do while also having subclass features that give them decent damage output at the same time. While I think a dedicated support subclass of artificer without significant offensive subclass abilities is possible, the subclass's unique support abilities would have to carry a lot of weight for that to work, and imo the alchemist's elixers just aren't strong or versatile enough to pull it off. Maybe with longer durations, stronger effects at higher levels, and the ability for the alchemist to spend their own action to apply the benefits to an ally even if they aren't unconscious. As it is, though, I think it's fair to say that the alchemist doing enough to really cut the mustard as a pure support character, especially compared to other artificers who provide 90% of the alchemist's support while also being fully adequate damage dealers.
I think another benefit of the Double-Bladed Scimitar, with the feat, is for Rangers. By making a Finesse-version of PAM you keep the character just as good at ranged as you'd want a ranger, and the third attack really combos well with Hunter's Mark. Also, since none of the melee fighting styles really fit great with the weapon, if you just go for +1 AC and later also get +1 AC from the feat you get the equivalent of a shield plus PAM together, with Finesse.
@@TreantmonksTemple Yes and no like. Last I played a ranger at least I found that I only used Hunter's Mark on larger targets and such, and when things stay alive for multiple turns it still works fine. Its certainly not great for killing goblins tho, for sure. :)
I've used the double bladed simitar for my Paladin build, I get most of the benefits of a polearm without expending any feats and I've taken the defence fighting style. Multiple attacks + bonus attack + smite + 1 AC + Racial feats and ASIs = high damage, high AC and a good story to tell.
The Double Bladed Scimitar would be a pretty effective weapon for low level Barbarians. Of course once you start getting ASI’s you’ll want to upgrade to more effective weapons but levels 1-3 the bonus action attack makes a huge difference.
2d4 is a smidge better than 1d8 to begin with. So if you're hitting easy targets, you can go dbs with bb, and keep your Cunning Action. If you're concerned about missing, drop bb for a standard attack and the option for a b.a. attack. So using the dbs with the bb option gives you the best of both worlds.
I also wonder about how going drow for hand crossbow proficiency, and picking up Sharpshooter compares. With a single attack, that accuracy penalty hurts. But picking up Crossbow Expert for the b.a. attack pushes that back a bit. The flat damage boost of SS is a big boost, even if it's not reliable.
@@sharkforce8147 very good point. I suppose too, in the lower levels SA is really good. It only starts to fall off as the martial classes gain their features. So bringing SS in later helps when it's needed.
purely from a theme/style perspective, two scimitars is probably a better choice than two short swords for those first three levels, especially in eberron. Same damage output, but going from two scimitars to one double scimitar is less of an aesthetic jump, and Eberron elven culture known for double scimitars favors scimitars in general. Plus, if the party knows or includes a blacksmith, you can probably get the two scimitars you'll already have custom rebuilt as a double scimitar more easily than you'd be able to find an exotic double scimitar mid campaign.
With the feat, it’s great for a melee rogue but it’s AMAZING for a Hexblade... pact weapon it, and now your pact weapon is making 3 attacks, so 5d4+3*Mod+3d6 at fifth level.
21:10 : If your DM allows the custom origin from tashas you might be able to switch the longsword proficiency for the double-bladed scimitar (assuming you still have to be an elf for the feat) since you can swap one martial weapon for another in proficiencies
A pure Dexadin would do well with a Double Scimitar. Race: Elf (Mark of Shadow) gives +2 Dex and +1 Cha. They also know the Minor Illusion cantrip, can cast Invisibility once per long rest and add some great spells such as Pass Without Trace and Greater Invisibility to the spell list. Plus 1d4 to stealth checks is nice! Point buy: 8 - 15 (17) - 14 - 10 - 10 - 14 (15). Not multiclassing, so dumped Str Sacred Oath: Oath of Vengeance ASI / Feats: 4th - Revenant Blade (+1 Dex) [8 - 18 - 14 - 10 - 10 - 15] 8th - Elven Accuracy (+1 Cha) [8 - 18 - 14 - 10 - 10 - 16] 12th - +2 Cha [8 - 18 - 14 - 10 - 10 - 18] 16th - +2 Cha [8 - 18 - 14 - 10 - 10 - 20] 19th - +2 Dex [8 - 20 - 14 - 10 - 10 - 20] Against the BBEG : Crit fishing + Smite Vow of Enmity + Elven Accuracy + Extra Attack + Revenant Blade = 3 attack rolls per attack (9 attack rolls total) = 37% chance of scoring at least one critical hit per turn. Add Haste and the odds increase to 46%. Basic damage (no smites) is not bad either: 60% chance to hit and average 1d4 = 3 with GWF At level 4 Bonus action Hunter's Mark and one attack: 8.575 dmg Following rounds: 17.15 dmg At level 5: Bonus action Hunter's Mark and two attacks: 17.15 dmg Following rounds: 25.725 dmg
Not sure if it's statistically better, but trying this on my new dex paladin. Crit fishing by going Vengeance for Vow of Enmity + Revenant Blade at 4 + Elven Accuracy at 8 + Haste at 9. 4 attacks allow for 60% chance to crit each turn (not including opportunity attacks).
In my consideration, a hexblade build using elemental weapon as its lynchpin is the best use of this weapon. Since it's a single weapon the elemental weapon buff will apply the the extra attack and you can apply your charisma to both attacks. This could be done with polearm master as well if choosing path of the blade but does require a feat.
At most that boosts damage by 4d4 +4 assuming you are getting opportunity attacks and aren't using anything else with your bonus action. At 5th level spell slot it may become more viable with 8+8d4 (18 damage) but then you can't spend slots on eldritch sites which hampers that build as well. I personally think booming blade pairs really nicely with Dual-scimitar because as far as I understand you are still making an attack with the weapon so you can make the bonus action attack as well. On top of this you can argue that your enemy is now in a disadvantageous position as they can't move to dodge your attack and may even be able to wrangle yourself an advantage. What (2d4 (5)+1d8 (4.5)+ 4= 13.5)*0.6=8.1 + (1d4 (2.5) +4 =6.5)*0.6=3.9 +(3d6 (10.5))*0.84=8.82 =20.82 dpr at level 5 without accounting for advantage or the bonus damage from booming blade
A good comparison is hex which everyone always uses as a baseline, 1d6 for 8 hours vs 1d4+1 for 1 hour. With 2 factors in mind A) of the 4 DMs I've had, all have ruled that you cant concentrate on a spell to get a short rest benefit. So 1 hour vs 8 hours is a mute point and B) you don't have to use your bonus action to move it constantly like hex. That puts it ahead in my opinion. It's also extremely helpful in a low magic game where at level 9 the party is just getting +1 magic items. By then the hexblade could be rocking a +3 4d4+3+charisma attack.
@@brentdyer1320 It is also a 3rd level spell so insteas of something that boosts my damage slightly I could just use a spell that would win a fight like hypnotic pattern on top of that hex works on all attacks not just on your weapon. If I go warlock. I would take polearm master and warcaster and use a quarterstaff as my arcane focus. This means I can get an extra eldritch blast off allowing me to deal a whole bunch extra shots per round. Though that combo is far when used as a sorlock so you get 3 uses of eldritch blast a turn which is pretty powrful
I think most builds you saw where people said GWM they meant Great Weapon fighting style. The style only requires the weapon be used with two hands, and the double scimitar has so many dice being rolled that rerolling 1s and 2s is very beneficial.
I used this weapon in an 18th-level one-shot where we got to pick some magic items; I took a wakened dragon's wrath version and went oathbreaker 13/hexblade 5. The extra damage per hit from the magic weapon, aura of hate, and improved smite on the third attack made it outdamage a great weapon master weapon that can only attack twice per round, at average 28.5/28.5/26 damage attacks, and was of course much more accurate.
I just built a fun arcane trickster/echo knight character based on this concept. Lots of trickery, lots of teleportation hijinks, and using the double bladed scimitar for flavor. Honestly, it'd probably be better using the feat slot for something else, but that +1 AC and +1 Dex combo is actually pretty good for a feat, I feel.
I recently learned about 'Grim hollow players guide'. In that book, there is a ranger class called 'Green Reaper' and a rogue classed called misfortune bringer. Maybe they could be used as a build for the double-bladed scimitar. I know they aren't official classes. But that doesn't mean they can't be used. I think the ranger is the best of the 2 thought.
It’s a wonderful weapon for a small race Hexblade. I’d recommend fairy, if that’s allowed at your table. 2 attacks plus the bonus action attack, with Lifedrinker for double Charisma added to damage of each hit at high levels, plus Hexblade’s Curse damage. Stack Spirit Shroud on top of that. No need to gain advantage to get the bonus damage, and all the spell casting on top of it. I think this would be especially fun for a high level one-shot. Bonus trick: if you see a Valenar Elf, just dismiss the weapon and resummon it when they’re gone! 🤣
BTW -Whoever told you to pronounce “Eberron” weirdly is wrong. Keith Baker has a podcast called Manifest Zone, and he pronounces it the same way you do throughout this video all podcast long. I don’t know who thinks they have a more authoritative source than the creator of the word, but there it is.
I think it is a very solid weapon of choice for Dex Based Sorcadins. I have a Devotion 6/Sorc X that uses the Great Weapon Fighting style in conjunction with Divine Favor.
While you cannot use both the secondary attack and booming blade at the same time, the damage from the first attack of a double scimitar does slightly more damage than the rapier. Other than that it gives the option to do either, as the main benefit from attacking twice is to get sneak attack off more reliably, whereas booming blade does more damage, so booming blade is better on low AC targets, and attacking twice is better when the target is harder to hit.
I'm currently using it with my Zealot Barbarian. I'm pretty sure it's not optimized but I like being able to have the Resilience in DEX and the Dwarven Fortitude feats in the future.
You can also separate sneak attack into a separate part of the formula. One minus the chance that both your attacks miss times the sneak attack damage. (1 - .6 *.6) * (sneak attack) .84 * sneak attack which is the same as .6 * sneak attack in the first attack, and .6 *. 4 * sneak attack in the second attack (.6 + .24 = .84)
You could just give the player exotic weapons proficiency double bladed weapons from 2nd ed. Maybe change it around to fit 5th ed but it just makes things easier.
Love the weapon, love the build, love the idea. I'd like to point out that the rogue can and probably should use Cunning Action to disengage any time it hits with its primary attack, since the extra 1d4 + DEX bonus in damage isn't all that much when compared with getting safely away ... ;)
well, the point of the second attack would be an insurance policy if you couldnt land a sneak attack, you'd probably just disengage if your primary attack landed
The D-Scimitar is fantastic for Dex-based paladins. Revenant with Mariner fighting style gets you +2 AC, +1 Dex, bonus attack + smites, a climb/swim speed, plus the bonus to all those dex skills and initiative. But I'm not big into min-maxing just for damage. Anyone can deal damage, not everyone can climb up walls or do sneaky tri-smites.
My first thought is Barbarian or Paladin. Many builds with them do not use their bonus actions very much. It could land another smite, it could add a little extra for a barb. Ultimately, it is a weapon of flavor not function.
If you're a High Elf you can easily use booming blade levels 1-3 and 17-20, then switch to the double scimitar levels 4-16. And even then, you still have booming blade for rounds where you need to use your bonus action for something else (and it does slightly more damage than the rapier + booming blade).
Great video. The double bladed anything is going to always strike me as dumb. How can we maximize its use? The above definitely works. I love the comment about making it a heavy weapon for short characters. How about a class that likes to hit hard that doesn't use its bonus action enough? Dex Valenar Elf barbarian? It's gonna be less than baseline compared to HWM, but it will go first more often and it will be awfully defensive.
I'm at work so I can't get you a link, but the channel Shadiversity recently did a video on double bladed swords which I thought was pretty good (he literally took 2 swords and bolted together for tests)
A thought: if multiclassing is a thing, part of me wants to think Rogue (Scout) 17 / Warlock (Hexblade / Pact of the Blade) 3 might be an option here; Charisma might not be necessary, depending on the choice of spells. For instance, let's assume we go Eladrin (so +2 DEX, +1 CHA): 2 cantrips known, 4 spells known, 2 2nd-level spell slots, 2 invocations Cantrips: booming blade, minor illusion 1st-level spells: armor of Agathys, hex 2nd level spells: blur and invisibility (swapping out a 1st-level spell for the extra 2nd-level spell) Invocations: Beast Speech (additional flavor, useful for a Scout), Devil's Sight (to the Abyss with your pitiful darkness spells) The only potential drawback I can see offhand is that feats would be at a premium. Then, War Caster vs. Resilient (Constitution) becomes a debate, since we'd have access to blur and invisibility.
I have a video idea for you: something about magic items that boost spell save DCs. I've heard that it's possible, but have no idea what those items are. (Not to be confused with boosting stats, or proficiency). There are tons of weapons that increase chance to hit and damage, but I don't hear about items that do the same for spell casters' spell attacks or save DCs.
Chris, what are your thoughts on a hexblade using the DBS? He could start a level earlier (3) and doesn't need the Revenant feat. The bonus action for Hexblade's Curse or Hex is largely only a one-off at the start of a combat so it's not THAT problematic, is it?
If you want to supercharge this build, just add a single level dip into fighter at level 2 for the great weapon fighting style. Sure, it doesn't boost the base damage of the attack much (a mere 1 to 2 points per hit), but it also applies to your sneak attack dice, which is the lion's share of your damage. I guarantee you, it's WAY better than the wimpy rogue capstone, especially since you can make use of it for almost the entire length of your adventuring career. This also allows you to switch out the elven weapons for extra tools (poisoner's kit, disguise kit, forgery kit, herbalism kit, vehicles, etc.), since the fighter gets all martial weapons for free. You even get medium armor and shields to help boost your survivability at early levels!
If you have to multi class how about echo knight? You can use sneak attack though the echo while you stay safe. And that way you can use the double bladed scimitar right away and you’d get a few levels of a higher hit dice. Even though you would be missing out on some sneak attack damage
Sry if this has been brought up before, but your booming blade calc I believe took ability scores instead of a feat. That would improve its average damage Thank you for you thoughtful vids. Add another sub
One of my "fixed" homebrew rules is that there are 3 feats I straight up ban, and they are sharpshooter, great weapon master and lucky - lucky because it's good for everyone at some point, and those other 2 because I hate the -5/+10 part of the feat, it's quite op if you build for that. With my homebrew, the idea of using double bladed becomes a lot better for most characters that could also go GWM.
Does the booming blade damage included the explosion if the target move? What feat you took at level 10, 12, 16? (once your dex is at 20?) rapier-booming blade rogue can take the new Tasha feat allowing him to get a fighting style, duelist to add 2 damage on a single handed weapon with no weapon in the off hand (like rapier+booming blade) OR take elven accuracy, the rogue with his bonus action available could hide and have advantage or use a familiar or any other team effort to gain advantage on each attack and triple advantage help greatly with increasing your damage. Sure elven acuracy can also help the double scimitar, but then the rogue is 100% dependant on the team (or familiar) to give him advantage. The rapier+booming blade got the flexibility to cunning action hide. Mobility can to help "disengage" AND hide, forcing the target to move, explode with booming blade and granting advantage on the next attack
I'm playing a swashbuckler rogue kobold in a CoS campaign currently, and the scimitar vs rapier paradigm makes me wonder which I should use: 2 shortswords or 1 rapier. On one hand, an extra chance of hitting is useful for rogues, but I have advantage in the first place on 75% of my attacks, so I very rarely miss my first attack anyway. On the other hand, I usually don't need to worry about bonus action disengage because of Rakish Audacity. I'm not trying to optimize fully, because I think this character is probably my favorite to roleplay ever and I'd rather stick to his character, but it'd be interesting to see whether dual wielding is still better when you have almost constant advantage.
How would this stack up for hexblades? Or the hexbard build he suggested in another video? This would give me two weapon fighting (basically) without needing to take a feat, which frees me up to get warcaster earlier. Also there's all that monkying with spellfoci that r.a.w. leads to with somatic spells while duel weilding.
couldn't help but notice while you had the sneak attack rule open on screen from about 27:01 to 28:02 that it doesn't mention anything, anywhere about having an ally within 5 feet... could you please explain where I can find this rule.
Ok, so i feel i'm stating the obvious here, but the DBS is an amazing Hexblade weapon, pact weapon bonuses on 3 attacks (with the invocation) and even spirit shroud (or hex on lower levels) makes the hexblade a blender of destruction basically. Double also, you can add eldrich smite and have enough spellslots with the appropriate multiclass.
Weay be changing ou cunning, but swashbuckler kinda circumvent that and scout can do a type of disengage using his action. Also the +1 to AC is a great adition to keep you safe.
It strikes me that this is a feat comparison issue. How would this stack up when you compare with the advantage from the Find Familiar I got when I bought booming blade with magic initiate?
I've been tempted since I saw revenant blade back in the day to make a swashbuckler elven rogue that uses a DBS, just because i think the weapon is cool more than anything. I just wish it was easier to set up... i guess starting fighter would work but it feels kind of shitty being one/two levels behind the rest of the party in your main concept...
Watching this after the "Revised Soradin" in 2022. There, the Variant Human paladin starts with Polearm Master, uses Shield/Spear and Dueling fighting style. The character is pretty feat-starved, however, so freeing up that feat could make sense, in theory. Since you can't start with Warcaster, the best bet is to go Mountain Dwarf for two +2s to start with 17s in Str/Cha, to use a single ASI later to get a pair of 18s. Level 4 is still going to be Warcaster probably, so that ASI for double 18s isn't going to hit until 10th level. Once it happens, you have +1 to hit, but -1 damage compared to a Spear with Dueling. That's generally a good trade, but nothing major. You lose access to +2 AC from a shield, however. You have a choice of a fighting style, but that's not going to be super impressive. Great Weapon FS basically just puts your damage on par with the old version, or Defense claws back some of the AC. One of the utility Fighting Styles (cantrips, blindsight, protecting allies) wouldn't be bad, but nothing too special. But even if that 18 strength is great after level 10, the cost getting there was high. You're missing +2 damage and +2 AC for the first 9 levels. Double scimitar does not seem worth.
I'm about to start playing a character that uses a DBS which I think will be very strong. It relies on my DM having allowed me a free feat at level 1, and allowed me to take Revenant Blade on a Half Elf (although it would work on an Elf) It's a Vengeance Paladin that takes Revenant Blade at level 1 and Elven Accuracy at level 4, basically using Bless to make it so I almost never miss, and with a 46% chance to crit per turn, on which I would then smite
The big annoyance with the Elves of Eberron is that they did not reprint them to keep the rules in one place! In fact, in Wayfinders Guide to Eberron pg 4 it states clearly “They aren’t officially part of the games d aren’t permitted in D&D Adventures League events”. I just hate when they don’t read what they wrote. To fix this they have to addendum something and a web post is not going to cut it for me when I ran games. Then it does not matter I am not running anything so ignore me. :)
gwm is a 2 part feat. the full bonus action attack on a crit/ kill. should also take elven accuracy. of course idk if any of this matters considering its be at least lvl 12 which means youd miss out on some asi. but it seems if you crit fish by always having advantage say with assassin it can get out of control pretty quick imo.
When I first saw the weapon I did think about non-conventional melee characters like Bladesinger (or possibly Eldritch knight, although that might be better built like a paladin). Any thoughts on those classes? Also, how about champion 3 dip for the extra crit chance if Wayfarer's is not available?
It's not a great weapon for a Crit build unless you have bonus dice to damage. I'm at work and unable to double check, but I seem to remember blade singers are restricted to one handed weapons
Doesn't work with Bladesong since it's a two handed weapon, so Bladesingers really can't use it at all. And while Eldritch Knights *can* use the double scimitar if you really want to for thematic reasons, it doesn't have any synergy with War Magic, and as a fighter build if you're looking for damage you're much better off taking a weapon that works with GWM or SS. It's not terrible on Paladins, particularly as Paladins already have a lot of pressure on their ASIs and would prefer to take fewer feats if they can get away with it. But it's still less flat damage than PAM and/or GWM builds, which means you'll struggle to meet expected damage output for an offensive character when you're not burning daily resources smiting. Still, there's something to be said for a Valenar Vengeance or especially Oathbroken Dexadin using the double scimitar with the racial feat and spending subsequent ASIs to max Dex and Cha rather than taking more feats. Or a half valenar paladin that skips the feat and takes 3+ levels of hexblade instead. Or just a half elf hexblade in general, minus the paladin. These may not be optimal choices, but they should be able to manage adequate damage numbers at most levels. for example, lets try an Oathbroken Valenar outcast build - start with pair scimitars (your family's double scimitar, broken during the terrible crime that got you exiled, which you'll get reforged at 4th level), starting post-racial stats s9, d17, c14, i8, w10, h15. Paladin skills athletics & intimidation, freeing up the two skills from soldier background for acrobatics and stealth. First level damage output is a flat 6 - above baseline if just barely. At 5th level (after double scimitar feat, protection fighting style, oathbreaker paladin oath damage output is 14.7 - admittedly below baseline, but not by much. If you've managed to get your weapon a +1 enchantment somehow (perhaps by promising favors to an artificer or forge cleric in the party) then you're back to baseline. At 7th level with oathbreaker aura you're up to 18.3 even without a magic weapon, above baseline if only just. At 11th level (after maxing dex at level 8 and improved divine smite) you're at 28.8 without magic weapons, still above baseline. At 12th level you raise cha with elven accuracy, bringing you to 30.6, not just above baseline but pretty respectable for the level. Raising cha with your remaining ASIs should keep you mostly on track after that, though you will drop a bit back below the baseline at the highest levels without magic item support. Keep in mind, though, that's just the oathbreaker's base level weapon damage output. It does not include smites, crits (which you can fish for with elven accuracy tri-vantage), buff spells, undead minions (a good source of both extra damage and advantage), nor does it include the party healing and support utility that a paladin brings with them. ... Champion dip isn't terrible if Wayfarers isn't allowed. Battlemaster almost certainly does more for you, but champion isn't bad for crit fishing, which is nice with elven accuracy and a source of advantage. IF you're going to take fighter to level 3 in this build, though, it's probably worth your time to find room for fighter levels 4-6, for the two extra ASIs plus the extra attack, regardless of whether you're going champion, battle master, or something else..
I feel as though GWF is still very much a viable pick with this weapon, especially so for your rogues - your sneak dice benefit from the rerolls, increasing your damage by about 2/3 of a damage point per die, on top of your 1.5 per turn from the weapon dice to begin with. This makes its damage massively outpace the rapier and booming blade combo.
I feel like this weapon is practically made for GWF. Rerolling 1 and 2 on a d4 is half the dice, and there's no limit to how many times you can reroll so reroll all 3 d4s on your turn.
@@imbetterthanyoubyfar I know. But it's still a 75% of getting as good or better than your roll with a roll of 2. So you should reroll every time you can.
@@TreantmonksTemple Booming Blade is very hard to combine with Sneak Attack. For Sneak Attack you generally need an ally to be nearby. And if an ally is nearby, the enemy inflicted by the Booming Blade secondary effect is quite unlikely to move: doing so would trigger an OA from the ally plus the damage from the Booming Blade. It is usually much better for the enemy to stay still and attack the Rogue's ally instead.
@@goblinking1349 This can actually be a good strategy if the ally is also your high AC PC as you may not want that enemy to attack anyone else. Throw a booming blade on and you put that enemy in a tough situation.
Hey Chris. How about an elven hexblade warlock that uses a DBS? Take revenant blade at 4, elven accuracy at 8? Use your bladelock concept and have a crit-fishing build with both ranged and melee options.
Not sure it's worthwhile for a hexblade to invest a feat into being able to use a weapon that provides less damage on attacks than other 2 handed weapons, but gives a bonus action attack. Hexblades a crazy bonus action hungry already
@@TreantmonksTemple great point. The 2-round set-up applies regardless. My point is, if you are going to make the bonus action investment, it is important to be able to engage your cursed target with as many d20's (to crit fish for eldritch smite) regardless of whether they are in melee or at range. Your points about DBS vs other dual wielding options apply here do they not? I suppose I'm trading the revenant feat for investment to gain proficiency to dual wielding.
Just a point, Great Weapon fighting as written is almost always worth taking on Paladin if you are using a weapon that works with it. Unlike Savage Attacker which specifies weapon damage dice, Great Weapon Fighting lets you roll any damage die that rolls a 1 or 2 when you make an attack with a two handed weapon. That means that the 6d8 of divine smite that you also just dropped on the attack is also getting a damage bump. And crits become even more disgusting as well.
Out of interest, I just made some calculations with this blade and learned that this weapon is extremely strong on Martial 5/Rogue x builds (A bit as you described in the video). A Barbarian who took the revenant blade feat and only ASI afterwards (all strength, the feat is only for the finesse property and therefore enabling sneak attacks) deals damage comparable to a GS Ranger who later takes assassin and Battlemaster. I assumed 4 Rounds Encounters. Even better: A battlemaster 5/Rogue x for riposte (assumed riposte attacks every turn) performs just as well even without reckless attacks and is better buffable by its team, because he does not generate advantage himself. The bm could even use dex and take elven accuracy at one point. I think its a massive oversight from the community and that this blade is easily capable of competing with gwm/pam builds, if not surpass them when combining extra attack and sneak attacks. I could not join your discord since the invite links in your videos are invalid by now, but I can send you my numbers and build progression if you are interested :)
I personally like this weapon for psi warrior. Obvious Star Wars parallels aside. You have plenty of opportunity to add extra damage with your psionic dice
Late to the party on this one. I'm surprised the vanilla rapier Rogue is so outclassed by a basic Warlock. I had always assumed Rogues were the best pure DPS class. In a general class ranking sense, where would you put Rogues? (As a side note, super not impressed my Eberron book is MISSING content from the earlier PDF, no matter how hyper-specific. What else am I missing out on?)
So, at 17th lvl, if u took scout and have a haste on you, you can make a haste attack action and trigger a bonus-action attack, both with sneak attack, and then ready another attack as a reaction, also with a sneak attack. 3 sneak attacks per round. Does it works that way?
If you’re playing a Hexblade Rogue you’re better off using rapier+Booming Blade with a shield. Better AC, free bonus action for Hex/Wrathful Smite or Cunning Action Disengage.
Ciberbuster I’m currently playing a Hexblade Arcane Trickster too! But I’m running a quad class Divine Soul 1/Hexblade 2/AT 9/Bard 1 then back to Divine Soul for Magical Ambush.
One thing you didn't mention is that you dont have to use your BA to attack if you already hit with your sneak attack, keeping your cunning action available.
Yeah, I was a bit confused by this as well. He even says he's assuming you'll hit on your first attack 60% of the time, so I don't see why he discounted all the other uses of the bonus action, it's only "lost" when you want to use it in exchange for another attempt at a sneak attack. you could use your bonus to attack every turn after your sneak attack for an extra 60% chance at a 1D4, but that's just another thing you could use it for. Although I expect if you don't use it you'll probably reduce the damage below Rapier+BB, so there's that.
@@benhalstead5176 it would only be a couple points of average damage anyway only being a d4 with no sneak attack, and if you aren't using cunning action you can just swing away. It's obviously a very versatile weapon for rogues
@@Mr911superstar Oh yeah, for sure, it's definitely nice to have a damage option for your bonus action, even if only a D4, I just figure there's no real reason to feel constrained to Scout, just because it doesn't use your bonus action as much as other archetypes do, since the main use of the bonus action attack is only to increase the odds of getting your sneak attack in, and you'll be getting that with your main attack, by Chris's maths, 60% of the time anyway. There are lots of more interesting things to do with your bonus action, and I don't see how the DBS really limits that. As far as the Rapier+BB thing though, the damage per round is really close, indeed only a couple of points difference, towards higher levels, so it's likely that not taking the bonus attack drops your damage below Rapier+BB, which also leaves your bonus action free. At that point DBS is interesting, and certainly provides flavour, but maybe isn't so optimal in the level ranges that see the most play.
Haven't watched til the end yet, but I don't think you can use the DBS with sneak attack - sneak attack requires a ranged or finesse weapon, and the DBS doesn't have those properties. As I read it, the DBS is a STR only weapon. Edit - nvm, forgot about revenant blade.
how would it look if you use green flame blade, booming blade with rapier. that is how i would build my my rouge or other melee combatant with only 1 attack.
Doing a game with Gestalt settings. My partner is going to be a shadow sorcerer/warlock. I want to front load on melee to defend him. I want to have my build as skirmisher rogue/totem barbarian. Any advice?
What about a half valenar elf hexblade warlock that takes pact of the blade and conjures/binds to a double bladed scimitar? You could keep dex at 14 and pump everything else into con and cha. If you're hexblade you can use it from lvl. 3 with your charisma, and elven accuracy could be a tempting feat instead. If you get advantage (for instance through casting darkness and having the devils sight invocation) you're getting 3 rolls per attack and an 19-20 crit if it's against your curse target. That should be a lot of crits, and you also have access to eldritch smite from 5th when you land those crits. What do you think about a build around this?
I forgot to mention hex, but you want to have it up, obviously. Casting darkness becomes more situational because you can't concentrate on both, but you can always have an arcane caster friend cast darkness on you and the enemies.
@@TreantmonksTemple On the turn you set up curse, you can just Booming Blade. Same with any Hex switch after the initial cast, but I'd rather spend spell slots and concentration on other things. Now that I'm thinking of it, this could make it really good for an elven accuracy crit-fishing hexadin.
@@TreantmonksTemple I agree there's a conflict, but bonus action conflict is so common. You talked about the same problem with the rogue and hiding. Anyway, I think it's considerably better than the ranger, since you should have more uses of hex and curse, at least in low-mid levels, and the ranger either has to take a feat, or become pretty MAD if they're strength based. Plus the ranger isn't as good at tacking advantage of crits, which come up more often with bonus action attacks and elven accuracy. (and as Brendan points out, they don't get those sweet attack cantrips for when you don't have your bonus action). Btw, super unrelated question, but how would you rate the alchemist artificer in your old school colour grade system, brown, or red?
Since the special property of the double scimitar directly competes with monk martial arts and adds nothing to the build every DM I’ve spoken to would allow it as a monk weapon for Kensai. As an exception
Hi every one, I am leading a campaing in Eberron setting, and from my point of view, a character that has profency with doble bladed scimitar is using a two handed weapon, then, that caracter aplies bonus hability to bonus action attack damage. Is a racial weapon also, no elves are not allowed to use it. All is about rollplaying a valenar elf, no in optimizing maths.
It's still a weapon you want to run on fighter. Imo with eldrich knight. Grate weapon fighting evens it out so much by making it so your damage is so consistent and with revinant blade this gets to being silly for Dex fighters.
Great weapon fighting would let you reroll 1 & 2 on damage for the dual scimitar, pair that up with rogue and you're able to reroll both the d4s from the weapon and the d6s on sneak attacks. It would only require one level in fighter, which if you want to play another elf subrace this would be a must, and the rest can be rogue. Rerolling becomes even more valuable as your sneak attack increases/you pick up sentinel.
According to Sage Advice this doesn't work. GWF only allows you to reroll the 1d4 or 2d4 of the weapon, not any sneak or smite damage you might add. TM even mentions that in the video.
@@TreantmonksTemple I thought you can reroll sneak attack since it adds to the weapons damage type, but not smite/spell since it's a different damage type/source. I was under the impression that the added dice worked like the added dice from something like a crit (i.e. you can reroll additional d6s from a greatsword that crits)
You are not losing damage from hunter's mark or hex. You are losing damage from a reduction in weapon attacks. 1d4+Dex+additional sneak attack chance for 1d6 is not a trade worth your spell slot.
Treantmonk's Temple But if you’re a Ranger using DBS+Hunter’s Mark+Extra Attack it’s 2d6=7 versus 1d4+5=7.5. The difference is small and if any target survives for more than 1 round you come out ahead.
SharkForce Forgive me for not going through the math. I want to make it clear that I’m talking about a Ranger using DBS, hence Sneak Attack damage is irrelevant.
SharkForce As far as pure melee Rangers go, DBS IS the superior option. If you’re going to bring ranged vs melee into the equation, that’s really a design problem and yes every Ranger should just take Archery and SS and be done with it.
Question: I can't find it off hand but I don't have all my rules. and I might be confusing with Pathfinder only so I should ask. In 5E do half-elves qualify for elf? or is that pathfinder only?
Swashbuckler can attack and run without the need of cunning action.
Throughout this whole video I was like "If only Rogues could use this weapon." Then you mentioned the feat and I was like "OH THERES THE COMBO"
What really excited me when this came out in wayfinders was that as a non heavy two handed weapon, my Halfling Fighter could use it with GWF Fighting Style.
Doesnt the greatclub work for it already?
That's true, but not having a racial Str bonus for a Str weapon hurts, and only elves can take Revenant blade
Also GWFS is pretty underwhelming. Personally I prefer +1 AC when using a two-hander.
@Juodas Varnas
Yes, but with its low base damage you're better off using a flail and shield with the Dueling style.
@@M0ebius It depends on the image you're trying to role-play with too. I've seen a lot of Halfling barbarians swinging a weapon too big for them and it can be freaking scary.
Don't forget Hexblade Pact of the Blade & making this your Pact weapon. I have a Wood Elf Rogue 5/Hexblade 5 that uses the Revenant Double-Bladed Scimitar. I love this build.
I'll add I took Swashbuckler.
I know that this comment is pretty old, but I am curious: One of Warlock's best options for increasing damage is the Hex spell. Obviously this has the same issues that Hunter's Mark had for using it with the Double Bladed Scimitar, in that they compete for your bonus action, in addition to Cunning Action already wanting that bonus action. How did you find this played out in your game? Did you just not take Hex, or did you give it a shot?
@@Kurse_of_Kall it works just fine with either outside of white room gaming. Save hex/mark for bigger enemies who take multiple hits, you loose 1 hit once and then tear it a new ass afterwards.
@@Kurse_of_Kall The new Favoured Foe in Tasha's for Ranger is the way to go of course. Doesn't cost your bonus action to activate and by 6th its equal to Hex/Hunter's Mark's d6 and surpasses it to a d8 at 14th if you go that high in Ranger and since you don't have to take the Dual wield fighting style, you are free to pick up something else like Defense or Great Weapon style (No restriction for heavy here, only that it's being used 2-handed) OR you can do what I do and take the new Blind Fighting style and start abusing Fog Cloud very early on lol.
Your choice of Sub-class depends on what you combo it with. Gloomstalker (of course lol but you can definitely make other Subs work too) is probably your best overall choice for both Rogue and/or Fighter really. Obviously your superiority in the dark providing advantage almost at will for Sneaks is always a good thing. Action Surge from Fighter RAW gives you your Dread Ambusher free attack with an extra d8 twice in your opening round so that's always an option to think about.
AS Treant stated, picking Monk still has some benefits, especially in the mobility department, but anytime you want to carry over into a Monk using a weapon with the Heavy or Special property, you limit the gains. Also Monk abilities often compete for your Bonus action.
I'll stick with my rapier.
Since Monsters of the Multiverse came out, you can now more easily do Rogue Double Scimitar with any elf since the updated Trance trait would allow you effectively permanent proficiency. Which means Booming Blade with High Elf is probably the way to go so you can flex between Scimitar and Booming when you need offense or defense.
One of my issues with you’re videos focused on beating the baseline damage has been the lack of regard for abilities that keep you and others alive to keep delivering that damage. I’m glad you acknowledged that a bit in this video with the realization that losing your cunning action for the extra damage my be detrimental over all. Good analysis video
Those kind of abilities are entirely situational though and impossible to model mathematically. IMO mentioning it should suffice.
My impression was always that 'baseline damage' was more about characters whose primary combat contribution *is* dealing damage. Pretty sure Treantmonk would agree that a wizard who spends most of their actions on buff/debuff/& battlefield control spells is contributing perfectly well even if their damage output is radically below the baseline. Similar could be said for a cleric character who manages a lot of buffs & debuffs, and spends bonus actions waking up unconscious allies rather than making additional attacks.
The problem with something like single classed alchemist isn't just that they don't hit baseline damage output, but that they're not really doing all that much of anything else, either, and what support they do offer mostly comes from core class features - regular artificer spells and item creation, things that the other artificer subclasses do while also having subclass features that give them decent damage output at the same time. While I think a dedicated support subclass of artificer without significant offensive subclass abilities is possible, the subclass's unique support abilities would have to carry a lot of weight for that to work, and imo the alchemist's elixers just aren't strong or versatile enough to pull it off. Maybe with longer durations, stronger effects at higher levels, and the ability for the alchemist to spend their own action to apply the benefits to an ally even if they aren't unconscious.
As it is, though, I think it's fair to say that the alchemist doing enough to really cut the mustard as a pure support character, especially compared to other artificers who provide 90% of the alchemist's support while also being fully adequate damage dealers.
I think another benefit of the Double-Bladed Scimitar, with the feat, is for Rangers. By making a Finesse-version of PAM you keep the character just as good at ranged as you'd want a ranger, and the third attack really combos well with Hunter's Mark. Also, since none of the melee fighting styles really fit great with the weapon, if you just go for +1 AC and later also get +1 AC from the feat you get the equivalent of a shield plus PAM together, with Finesse.
I would argue that anything that requires a bonus action does not pair well with hunter's mark
@@TreantmonksTemple Yes and no like. Last I played a ranger at least I found that I only used Hunter's Mark on larger targets and such, and when things stay alive for multiple turns it still works fine.
Its certainly not great for killing goblins tho, for sure. :)
I've used the double bladed simitar for my Paladin build, I get most of the benefits of a polearm without expending any feats and I've taken the defence fighting style. Multiple attacks + bonus attack + smite + 1 AC + Racial feats and ASIs = high damage, high AC and a good story to tell.
The Double Bladed Scimitar would be a pretty effective weapon for low level Barbarians. Of course once you start getting ASI’s you’ll want to upgrade to more effective weapons but levels 1-3 the bonus action attack makes a huge difference.
2d4 is a smidge better than 1d8 to begin with. So if you're hitting easy targets, you can go dbs with bb, and keep your Cunning Action. If you're concerned about missing, drop bb for a standard attack and the option for a b.a. attack.
So using the dbs with the bb option gives you the best of both worlds.
I also wonder about how going drow for hand crossbow proficiency, and picking up Sharpshooter compares. With a single attack, that accuracy penalty hurts. But picking up Crossbow Expert for the b.a. attack pushes that back a bit. The flat damage boost of SS is a big boost, even if it's not reliable.
@@ChristnThms No need to go Drow; Rogues get hand crossbow proficiency by default.
@@predwin1998 I had forgotten that. So v.human could start with SS right away, and get xbow xpert at 4 or vice versa.
2d4 w/ GWF style > 1d10 w/ PAM, it has a higher minimum roll, and really benefits from those rerolls.
@@sharkforce8147 very good point. I suppose too, in the lower levels SA is really good. It only starts to fall off as the martial classes gain their features. So bringing SS in later helps when it's needed.
purely from a theme/style perspective, two scimitars is probably a better choice than two short swords for those first three levels, especially in eberron. Same damage output, but going from two scimitars to one double scimitar is less of an aesthetic jump, and Eberron elven culture known for double scimitars favors scimitars in general. Plus, if the party knows or includes a blacksmith, you can probably get the two scimitars you'll already have custom rebuilt as a double scimitar more easily than you'd be able to find an exotic double scimitar mid campaign.
With the feat, it’s great for a melee rogue but it’s AMAZING for a Hexblade... pact weapon it, and now your pact weapon is making 3 attacks, so 5d4+3*Mod+3d6 at fifth level.
21:10 : If your DM allows the custom origin from tashas you might be able to switch the longsword proficiency for the double-bladed scimitar (assuming you still have to be an elf for the feat) since you can swap one martial weapon for another in proficiencies
A pure Dexadin would do well with a Double Scimitar.
Race: Elf (Mark of Shadow) gives +2 Dex and +1 Cha. They also know the Minor Illusion cantrip, can cast Invisibility once per long rest and add some great spells such as Pass Without Trace and Greater Invisibility to the spell list. Plus 1d4 to stealth checks is nice!
Point buy: 8 - 15 (17) - 14 - 10 - 10 - 14 (15). Not multiclassing, so dumped Str
Sacred Oath: Oath of Vengeance
ASI / Feats:
4th - Revenant Blade (+1 Dex) [8 - 18 - 14 - 10 - 10 - 15]
8th - Elven Accuracy (+1 Cha) [8 - 18 - 14 - 10 - 10 - 16]
12th - +2 Cha [8 - 18 - 14 - 10 - 10 - 18]
16th - +2 Cha [8 - 18 - 14 - 10 - 10 - 20]
19th - +2 Dex [8 - 20 - 14 - 10 - 10 - 20]
Against the BBEG : Crit fishing + Smite
Vow of Enmity + Elven Accuracy + Extra Attack + Revenant Blade = 3 attack rolls per attack (9 attack rolls total) = 37% chance of scoring at least one critical hit per turn. Add Haste and the odds increase to 46%.
Basic damage (no smites) is not bad either: 60% chance to hit and average 1d4 = 3 with GWF
At level 4
Bonus action Hunter's Mark and one attack: 8.575 dmg
Following rounds: 17.15 dmg
At level 5:
Bonus action Hunter's Mark and two attacks: 17.15 dmg
Following rounds: 25.725 dmg
Not sure if it's statistically better, but trying this on my new dex paladin. Crit fishing by going Vengeance for Vow of Enmity + Revenant Blade at 4 + Elven Accuracy at 8 + Haste at 9. 4 attacks allow for 60% chance to crit each turn (not including opportunity attacks).
In my consideration, a hexblade build using elemental weapon as its lynchpin is the best use of this weapon. Since it's a single weapon the elemental weapon buff will apply the the extra attack and you can apply your charisma to both attacks. This could be done with polearm master as well if choosing path of the blade but does require a feat.
Not normally a good spell, but that's a good way to make it better
At most that boosts damage by 4d4 +4 assuming you are getting opportunity attacks and aren't using anything else with your bonus action. At 5th level spell slot it may become more viable with 8+8d4 (18 damage) but then you can't spend slots on eldritch sites which hampers that build as well.
I personally think booming blade pairs really nicely with Dual-scimitar because as far as I understand you are still making an attack with the weapon so you can make the bonus action attack as well. On top of this you can argue that your enemy is now in a disadvantageous position as they can't move to dodge your attack and may even be able to wrangle yourself an advantage. What (2d4 (5)+1d8 (4.5)+ 4= 13.5)*0.6=8.1 + (1d4 (2.5) +4 =6.5)*0.6=3.9 +(3d6 (10.5))*0.84=8.82 =20.82 dpr at level 5 without accounting for advantage or the bonus damage from booming blade
@@moto2442 Double bladed scimitar requires an attack ACTION to use the bonus attack, so it does not combine with booming.
A good comparison is hex which everyone always uses as a baseline, 1d6 for 8 hours vs 1d4+1 for 1 hour. With 2 factors in mind A) of the 4 DMs I've had, all have ruled that you cant concentrate on a spell to get a short rest benefit. So 1 hour vs 8 hours is a mute point and B) you don't have to use your bonus action to move it constantly like hex. That puts it ahead in my opinion. It's also extremely helpful in a low magic game where at level 9 the party is just getting +1 magic items. By then the hexblade could be rocking a +3 4d4+3+charisma attack.
@@brentdyer1320 It is also a 3rd level spell so insteas of something that boosts my damage slightly I could just use a spell that would win a fight like hypnotic pattern on top of that hex works on all attacks not just on your weapon. If I go warlock. I would take polearm master and warcaster and use a quarterstaff as my arcane focus. This means I can get an extra eldritch blast off allowing me to deal a whole bunch extra shots per round. Though that combo is far when used as a sorlock so you get 3 uses of eldritch blast a turn which is pretty powrful
"Stealth is so good, the only character that can sneak up on this character IS THIS CHARACTER"
*laughs in dastardly DM*
I accidentally made a Rogue NPC that may just cease to exist when they roll stealth. They also have like a 28 passive perception.
I'm glad there's at least one good build for such an odd-looking weapon.
Same
I'll count this as the Rogue Sentinel build! *g*
I think most builds you saw where people said GWM they meant Great Weapon fighting style. The style only requires the weapon be used with two hands, and the double scimitar has so many dice being rolled that rerolling 1s and 2s is very beneficial.
I used this weapon in an 18th-level one-shot where we got to pick some magic items; I took a wakened dragon's wrath version and went oathbreaker 13/hexblade 5. The extra damage per hit from the magic weapon, aura of hate, and improved smite on the third attack made it outdamage a great weapon master weapon that can only attack twice per round, at average 28.5/28.5/26 damage attacks, and was of course much more accurate.
I just built a fun arcane trickster/echo knight character based on this concept.
Lots of trickery, lots of teleportation hijinks, and using the double bladed scimitar for flavor.
Honestly, it'd probably be better using the feat slot for something else, but that +1 AC and +1 Dex combo is actually pretty good for a feat, I feel.
Swashbuckler with the gladiator background seems like an excellent fit for this.
I recently learned about 'Grim hollow players guide'. In that book, there is a ranger class called 'Green Reaper' and a rogue classed called misfortune bringer. Maybe they could be used as a build for the double-bladed scimitar. I know they aren't official classes. But that doesn't mean they can't be used. I think the ranger is the best of the 2 thought.
It’s a wonderful weapon for a small race Hexblade. I’d recommend fairy, if that’s allowed at your table.
2 attacks plus the bonus action attack, with Lifedrinker for double Charisma added to damage of each hit at high levels, plus Hexblade’s Curse damage. Stack Spirit Shroud on top of that.
No need to gain advantage to get the bonus damage, and all the spell casting on top of it.
I think this would be especially fun for a high level one-shot.
Bonus trick: if you see a Valenar Elf, just dismiss the weapon and resummon it when they’re gone! 🤣
BTW -Whoever told you to pronounce “Eberron” weirdly is wrong. Keith Baker has a podcast called Manifest Zone, and he pronounces it the same way you do throughout this video all podcast long. I don’t know who thinks they have a more authoritative source than the creator of the word, but there it is.
I love the idea of a swasbuckler wielding the signature weapon of a culture they don't belong to.
I think it is a very solid weapon of choice for Dex Based Sorcadins. I have a Devotion 6/Sorc X that uses the Great Weapon Fighting style in conjunction with Divine Favor.
Why couldn’t you cast booming blade with the double bladed scimitar? It doesn’t have somatic components and the material components the weapon itself.
You can cast it fine, but you wouldn’t be able to attack again as a bonus action as that requires an Attack action, not a Cast a Spell action.
So why not go with Eldritch Knight, Bladesinger, or even Order of the Profane Soul Blood Hunter?
While you cannot use both the secondary attack and booming blade at the same time, the damage from the first attack of a double scimitar does slightly more damage than the rapier. Other than that it gives the option to do either, as the main benefit from attacking twice is to get sneak attack off more reliably, whereas booming blade does more damage, so booming blade is better on low AC targets, and attacking twice is better when the target is harder to hit.
I'm currently using it with my Zealot Barbarian. I'm pretty sure it's not optimized but I like being able to have the Resilience in DEX and the Dwarven Fortitude feats in the future.
You forgot Warlock. Warlock with Lifedrinker LOVES this thing.
It was really good on UA artificer when they got the arcane weapon spell (a hunters mark you never had to move).
Treantmonk variant: two weapon fighting rules?
Check my feat vid on Friday
Add Illusionist's Bracers from Ravnica and you'll be able to use Booming/Green Flame Blade twice per turn (3x if you take Warcaster).
You can also separate sneak attack into a separate part of the formula. One minus the chance that both your attacks miss times the sneak attack damage.
(1 - .6 *.6) * (sneak attack)
.84 * sneak attack
which is the same as .6 * sneak attack in the first attack, and .6 *. 4 * sneak attack in the second attack (.6 + .24 = .84)
I'm an amateur at math ;).
Just higher a lower level claric by high levels for a dedicated enlarge spell and really stack those d4s haha
It's also an excellent weapon for any STR based character before they take a feat.
You could just give the player exotic weapons proficiency double bladed weapons from 2nd ed. Maybe change it around to fit 5th ed but it just makes things easier.
Love the weapon, love the build, love the idea. I'd like to point out that the rogue can and probably should use Cunning Action to disengage any time it hits with its primary attack, since the extra 1d4 + DEX bonus in damage isn't all that much when compared with getting safely away ... ;)
well, the point of the second attack would be an insurance policy if you couldnt land a sneak attack, you'd probably just disengage if your primary attack landed
The D-Scimitar is fantastic for Dex-based paladins. Revenant with Mariner fighting style gets you +2 AC, +1 Dex, bonus attack + smites, a climb/swim speed, plus the bonus to all those dex skills and initiative.
But I'm not big into min-maxing just for damage. Anyone can deal damage, not everyone can climb up walls or do sneaky tri-smites.
My first thought is Barbarian or Paladin. Many builds with them do not use their bonus actions very much. It could land another smite, it could add a little extra for a barb. Ultimately, it is a weapon of flavor not function.
If you're a High Elf you can easily use booming blade levels 1-3 and 17-20, then switch to the double scimitar levels 4-16. And even then, you still have booming blade for rounds where you need to use your bonus action for something else (and it does slightly more damage than the rapier + booming blade).
Great video.
The double bladed anything is going to always strike me as dumb.
How can we maximize its use? The above definitely works.
I love the comment about making it a heavy weapon for short characters.
How about a class that likes to hit hard that doesn't use its bonus action enough? Dex Valenar Elf barbarian? It's gonna be less than baseline compared to HWM, but it will go first more often and it will be awfully defensive.
I'm at work so I can't get you a link, but the channel Shadiversity recently did a video on double bladed swords which I thought was pretty good (he literally took 2 swords and bolted together for tests)
A thought: if multiclassing is a thing, part of me wants to think Rogue (Scout) 17 / Warlock (Hexblade / Pact of the Blade) 3 might be an option here; Charisma might not be necessary, depending on the choice of spells. For instance, let's assume we go Eladrin (so +2 DEX, +1 CHA):
2 cantrips known, 4 spells known, 2 2nd-level spell slots, 2 invocations
Cantrips: booming blade, minor illusion
1st-level spells: armor of Agathys, hex
2nd level spells: blur and invisibility (swapping out a 1st-level spell for the extra 2nd-level spell)
Invocations: Beast Speech (additional flavor, useful for a Scout), Devil's Sight (to the Abyss with your pitiful darkness spells)
The only potential drawback I can see offhand is that feats would be at a premium. Then, War Caster vs. Resilient (Constitution) becomes a debate, since we'd have access to blur and invisibility.
Warlock isn’t really adding a lot here, that you can’t get via magic initiate or a racial pick like High Elf. Or just go Arcane Trickster..
I have a video idea for you: something about magic items that boost spell save DCs. I've heard that it's possible, but have no idea what those items are. (Not to be confused with boosting stats, or proficiency). There are tons of weapons that increase chance to hit and damage, but I don't hear about items that do the same for spell casters' spell attacks or save DCs.
Thanks for the idea. I may do that soon
Chris, what are your thoughts on a hexblade using the DBS? He could start a level earlier (3) and doesn't need the Revenant feat. The bonus action for Hexblade's Curse or Hex is largely only a one-off at the start of a combat so it's not THAT problematic, is it?
Funny how now Valenar Elf and a standard High/Wood Elf has the same bonus proficiency thanks to Tasha
If you want to supercharge this build, just add a single level dip into fighter at level 2 for the great weapon fighting style. Sure, it doesn't boost the base damage of the attack much (a mere 1 to 2 points per hit), but it also applies to your sneak attack dice, which is the lion's share of your damage. I guarantee you, it's WAY better than the wimpy rogue capstone, especially since you can make use of it for almost the entire length of your adventuring career. This also allows you to switch out the elven weapons for extra tools (poisoner's kit, disguise kit, forgery kit, herbalism kit, vehicles, etc.), since the fighter gets all martial weapons for free. You even get medium armor and shields to help boost your survivability at early levels!
You can make the double scimitar take the heavy effect by having it tempered with Adamantine
Wood elves... analogous to the wild elves of Lyrengorn in the Tal'Dorei book? I wonder how hard it would be for wyvern riders to use...
If you have to multi class how about echo knight? You can use sneak attack though the echo while you stay safe. And that way you can use the double bladed scimitar right away and you’d get a few levels of a higher hit dice. Even though you would be missing out on some sneak attack damage
Scout is by far the best subclass.
Sry if this has been brought up before, but your booming blade calc I believe took ability scores instead of a feat. That would improve its average damage
Thank you for you thoughtful vids. Add another sub
One of my "fixed" homebrew rules is that there are 3 feats I straight up ban, and they are sharpshooter, great weapon master and lucky - lucky because it's good for everyone at some point, and those other 2 because I hate the -5/+10 part of the feat, it's quite op if you build for that. With my homebrew, the idea of using double bladed becomes a lot better for most characters that could also go GWM.
I encourage you to check out my feat variant video this Friday
Does the booming blade damage included the explosion if the target move?
What feat you took at level 10, 12, 16? (once your dex is at 20?)
rapier-booming blade rogue can take the new Tasha feat allowing him to get a fighting style, duelist to add 2 damage on a single handed weapon with no weapon in the off hand (like rapier+booming blade)
OR take elven accuracy, the rogue with his bonus action available could hide and have advantage or use a familiar or any other team effort to gain advantage on each attack and triple advantage help greatly with increasing your damage. Sure elven acuracy can also help the double scimitar, but then the rogue is 100% dependant on the team (or familiar) to give him advantage. The rapier+booming blade got the flexibility to cunning action hide.
Mobility can to help "disengage" AND hide, forcing the target to move, explode with booming blade and granting advantage on the next attack
I'm playing a swashbuckler rogue kobold in a CoS campaign currently, and the scimitar vs rapier paradigm makes me wonder which I should use: 2 shortswords or 1 rapier. On one hand, an extra chance of hitting is useful for rogues, but I have advantage in the first place on 75% of my attacks, so I very rarely miss my first attack anyway. On the other hand, I usually don't need to worry about bonus action disengage because of Rakish Audacity. I'm not trying to optimize fully, because I think this character is probably my favorite to roleplay ever and I'd rather stick to his character, but it'd be interesting to see whether dual wielding is still better when you have almost constant advantage.
How would this stack up for hexblades? Or the hexbard build he suggested in another video? This would give me two weapon fighting (basically) without needing to take a feat, which frees me up to get warcaster earlier. Also there's all that monkying with spellfoci that r.a.w. leads to with somatic spells while duel weilding.
couldn't help but notice while you had the sneak attack rule open on screen from about 27:01 to 28:02 that it doesn't mention anything, anywhere about having an ally within 5 feet... could you please explain where I can find this rule.
Ok, so i feel i'm stating the obvious here, but the DBS is an amazing Hexblade weapon, pact weapon bonuses on 3 attacks (with the invocation) and even spirit shroud (or hex on lower levels) makes the hexblade a blender of destruction basically. Double also, you can add eldrich smite and have enough spellslots with the appropriate multiclass.
Weay be changing ou cunning, but swashbuckler kinda circumvent that and scout can do a type of disengage using his action.
Also the +1 to AC is a great adition to keep you safe.
It strikes me that this is a feat comparison issue. How would this stack up when you compare with the advantage from the Find Familiar I got when I bought booming blade with magic initiate?
I've been tempted since I saw revenant blade back in the day to make a swashbuckler elven rogue that uses a DBS, just because i think the weapon is cool more than anything. I just wish it was easier to set up... i guess starting fighter would work but it feels kind of shitty being one/two levels behind the rest of the party in your main concept...
Watching this after the "Revised Soradin" in 2022. There, the Variant Human paladin starts with Polearm Master, uses Shield/Spear and Dueling fighting style. The character is pretty feat-starved, however, so freeing up that feat could make sense, in theory.
Since you can't start with Warcaster, the best bet is to go Mountain Dwarf for two +2s to start with 17s in Str/Cha, to use a single ASI later to get a pair of 18s. Level 4 is still going to be Warcaster probably, so that ASI for double 18s isn't going to hit until 10th level. Once it happens, you have +1 to hit, but -1 damage compared to a Spear with Dueling. That's generally a good trade, but nothing major. You lose access to +2 AC from a shield, however. You have a choice of a fighting style, but that's not going to be super impressive. Great Weapon FS basically just puts your damage on par with the old version, or Defense claws back some of the AC. One of the utility Fighting Styles (cantrips, blindsight, protecting allies) wouldn't be bad, but nothing too special.
But even if that 18 strength is great after level 10, the cost getting there was high. You're missing +2 damage and +2 AC for the first 9 levels. Double scimitar does not seem worth.
I'm about to start playing a character that uses a DBS which I think will be very strong. It relies on my DM having allowed me a free feat at level 1, and allowed me to take Revenant Blade on a Half Elf (although it would work on an Elf)
It's a Vengeance Paladin that takes Revenant Blade at level 1 and Elven Accuracy at level 4, basically using Bless to make it so I almost never miss, and with a 46% chance to crit per turn, on which I would then smite
The big annoyance with the Elves of Eberron is that they did not reprint them to keep the rules in one place! In fact, in Wayfinders Guide to Eberron pg 4 it states clearly “They aren’t officially part of the games d aren’t permitted in D&D Adventures League events”. I just hate when they don’t read what they wrote. To fix this they have to addendum something and a web post is not going to cut it for me when I ran games.
Then it does not matter I am not running anything so ignore me. :)
gwm is a 2 part feat. the full bonus action attack on a crit/ kill. should also take elven accuracy. of course idk if any of this matters considering its be at least lvl 12 which means youd miss out on some asi. but it seems if you crit fish by always having advantage say with assassin it can get out of control pretty quick imo.
Do these numbers hold up to today or are they from a time, where Revenant Blade made the second strike also 2d4?
When I first saw the weapon I did think about non-conventional melee characters like Bladesinger (or possibly Eldritch knight, although that might be better built like a paladin). Any thoughts on those classes? Also, how about champion 3 dip for the extra crit chance if Wayfarer's is not available?
It's not a great weapon for a Crit build unless you have bonus dice to damage. I'm at work and unable to double check, but I seem to remember blade singers are restricted to one handed weapons
Doesn't work with Bladesong since it's a two handed weapon, so Bladesingers really can't use it at all. And while Eldritch Knights *can* use the double scimitar if you really want to for thematic reasons, it doesn't have any synergy with War Magic, and as a fighter build if you're looking for damage you're much better off taking a weapon that works with GWM or SS.
It's not terrible on Paladins, particularly as Paladins already have a lot of pressure on their ASIs and would prefer to take fewer feats if they can get away with it. But it's still less flat damage than PAM and/or GWM builds, which means you'll struggle to meet expected damage output for an offensive character when you're not burning daily resources smiting. Still, there's something to be said for a Valenar Vengeance or especially Oathbroken Dexadin using the double scimitar with the racial feat and spending subsequent ASIs to max Dex and Cha rather than taking more feats. Or a half valenar paladin that skips the feat and takes 3+ levels of hexblade instead. Or just a half elf hexblade in general, minus the paladin. These may not be optimal choices, but they should be able to manage adequate damage numbers at most levels.
for example, lets try an Oathbroken Valenar outcast build - start with pair scimitars (your family's double scimitar, broken during the terrible crime that got you exiled, which you'll get reforged at 4th level), starting post-racial stats s9, d17, c14, i8, w10, h15. Paladin skills athletics & intimidation, freeing up the two skills from soldier background for acrobatics and stealth. First level damage output is a flat 6 - above baseline if just barely. At 5th level (after double scimitar feat, protection fighting style, oathbreaker paladin oath damage output is 14.7 - admittedly below baseline, but not by much. If you've managed to get your weapon a +1 enchantment somehow (perhaps by promising favors to an artificer or forge cleric in the party) then you're back to baseline. At 7th level with oathbreaker aura you're up to 18.3 even without a magic weapon, above baseline if only just. At 11th level (after maxing dex at level 8 and improved divine smite) you're at 28.8 without magic weapons, still above baseline. At 12th level you raise cha with elven accuracy, bringing you to 30.6, not just above baseline but pretty respectable for the level. Raising cha with your remaining ASIs should keep you mostly on track after that, though you will drop a bit back below the baseline at the highest levels without magic item support.
Keep in mind, though, that's just the oathbreaker's base level weapon damage output. It does not include smites, crits (which you can fish for with elven accuracy tri-vantage), buff spells, undead minions (a good source of both extra damage and advantage), nor does it include the party healing and support utility that a paladin brings with them.
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Champion dip isn't terrible if Wayfarers isn't allowed. Battlemaster almost certainly does more for you, but champion isn't bad for crit fishing, which is nice with elven accuracy and a source of advantage. IF you're going to take fighter to level 3 in this build, though, it's probably worth your time to find room for fighter levels 4-6, for the two extra ASIs plus the extra attack, regardless of whether you're going champion, battle master, or something else..
I feel as though GWF is still very much a viable pick with this weapon, especially so for your rogues - your sneak dice benefit from the rerolls, increasing your damage by about 2/3 of a damage point per die, on top of your 1.5 per turn from the weapon dice to begin with. This makes its damage massively outpace the rapier and booming blade combo.
I feel like this weapon is practically made for GWF. Rerolling 1 and 2 on a d4 is half the dice, and there's no limit to how many times you can reroll so reroll all 3 d4s on your turn.
@@MrBlancify Err, you must use the reroll even if it's a one or a two
@@imbetterthanyoubyfar I know. But it's still a 75% of getting as good or better than your roll with a roll of 2. So you should reroll every time you can.
@@MrBlancify ah, that's what you meant by it. I misunderstood. Yeah, I agree, you should always use it.
Also I was curious how you calculated booming blade damage, did you assume the secondary damage triggers half the time?
Yes, 50%, though that's obviously a very rough estimate
@@TreantmonksTemple Booming Blade is very hard to combine with Sneak Attack. For Sneak Attack you generally need an ally to be nearby. And if an ally is nearby, the enemy inflicted by the Booming Blade secondary effect is quite unlikely to move: doing so would trigger an OA from the ally plus the damage from the Booming Blade. It is usually much better for the enemy to stay still and attack the Rogue's ally instead.
@@goblinking1349 This can actually be a good strategy if the ally is also your high AC PC as you may not want that enemy to attack anyone else. Throw a booming blade on and you put that enemy in a tough situation.
Hi Treant! Big fan from Puerto Rico! Been playing DnD for 4 yrs now and I LOVE the god wizard; is there a way to make a god wiz in Pathfinder 2e?
With the new Shadar kai would you pick this over the wood elf?
Hey Chris. How about an elven hexblade warlock that uses a DBS? Take revenant blade at 4, elven accuracy at 8? Use your bladelock concept and have a crit-fishing build with both ranged and melee options.
Not sure it's worthwhile for a hexblade to invest a feat into being able to use a weapon that provides less damage on attacks than other 2 handed weapons, but gives a bonus action attack. Hexblades a crazy bonus action hungry already
@@TreantmonksTemple great point. The 2-round set-up applies regardless. My point is, if you are going to make the bonus action investment, it is important to be able to engage your cursed target with as many d20's (to crit fish for eldritch smite) regardless of whether they are in melee or at range. Your points about DBS vs other dual wielding options apply here do they not? I suppose I'm trading the revenant feat for investment to gain proficiency to dual wielding.
Btw, thanks so much for your thoughtful and responsive contributions to the hobby!
Just a point, Great Weapon fighting as written is almost always worth taking on Paladin if you are using a weapon that works with it.
Unlike Savage Attacker which specifies weapon damage dice, Great Weapon Fighting lets you roll any damage die that rolls a 1 or 2 when you make an attack with a two handed weapon.
That means that the 6d8 of divine smite that you also just dropped on the attack is also getting a damage bump.
And crits become even more disgusting as well.
Currently playing barb 5 rogue x with this and its pretty rad
Out of interest, I just made some calculations with this blade and learned that this weapon is extremely strong on Martial 5/Rogue x builds (A bit as you described in the video). A Barbarian who took the revenant blade feat and only ASI afterwards (all strength, the feat is only for the finesse property and therefore enabling sneak attacks) deals damage comparable to a GS Ranger who later takes assassin and Battlemaster. I assumed 4 Rounds Encounters. Even better: A battlemaster 5/Rogue x for riposte (assumed riposte attacks every turn) performs just as well even without reckless attacks and is better buffable by its team, because he does not generate advantage himself. The bm could even use dex and take elven accuracy at one point. I think its a massive oversight from the community and that this blade is easily capable of competing with gwm/pam builds, if not surpass them when combining extra attack and sneak attacks. I could not join your discord since the invite links in your videos are invalid by now, but I can send you my numbers and build progression if you are interested :)
I personally like this weapon for psi warrior. Obvious Star Wars parallels aside. You have plenty of opportunity to add extra damage with your psionic dice
Late to the party on this one. I'm surprised the vanilla rapier Rogue is so outclassed by a basic Warlock. I had always assumed Rogues were the best pure DPS class. In a general class ranking sense, where would you put Rogues? (As a side note, super not impressed my Eberron book is MISSING content from the earlier PDF, no matter how hyper-specific. What else am I missing out on?)
you can use Booming Blade with Twinned Spell
So, at 17th lvl, if u took scout and have a haste on you, you can make a haste attack action and trigger a bonus-action attack, both with sneak attack, and then ready another attack as a reaction, also with a sneak attack. 3 sneak attacks per round. Does it works that way?
Revisiting this in our post-Tasha's world. Anyone have any good experiences?
What about a warlock? Maybe doing some multiclass without hexblade. An rogue/warlock may work great.
Hex is like hunter's mark in the bonus action use.
If you’re playing a Hexblade Rogue you’re better off using rapier+Booming Blade with a shield. Better AC, free bonus action for Hex/Wrathful Smite or Cunning Action Disengage.
@@M0ebius Actually I played a Hexblade/Arcane Trickster in CoS. My idea is building a no-hexblade path of the blade warlock using the doble scimitar.
Ciberbuster I’m currently playing a Hexblade Arcane Trickster too! But I’m running a quad class Divine Soul 1/Hexblade 2/AT 9/Bard 1 then back to Divine Soul for Magical Ambush.
One thing you didn't mention is that you dont have to use your BA to attack if you already hit with your sneak attack, keeping your cunning action available.
Yeah, I was a bit confused by this as well. He even says he's assuming you'll hit on your first attack 60% of the time, so I don't see why he discounted all the other uses of the bonus action, it's only "lost" when you want to use it in exchange for another attempt at a sneak attack. you could use your bonus to attack every turn after your sneak attack for an extra 60% chance at a 1D4, but that's just another thing you could use it for. Although I expect if you don't use it you'll probably reduce the damage below Rapier+BB, so there's that.
@@benhalstead5176 it would only be a couple points of average damage anyway only being a d4 with no sneak attack, and if you aren't using cunning action you can just swing away. It's obviously a very versatile weapon for rogues
@@Mr911superstar Oh yeah, for sure, it's definitely nice to have a damage option for your bonus action, even if only a D4, I just figure there's no real reason to feel constrained to Scout, just because it doesn't use your bonus action as much as other archetypes do, since the main use of the bonus action attack is only to increase the odds of getting your sneak attack in, and you'll be getting that with your main attack, by Chris's maths, 60% of the time anyway. There are lots of more interesting things to do with your bonus action, and I don't see how the DBS really limits that.
As far as the Rapier+BB thing though, the damage per round is really close, indeed only a couple of points difference, towards higher levels, so it's likely that not taking the bonus attack drops your damage below Rapier+BB, which also leaves your bonus action free. At that point DBS is interesting, and certainly provides flavour, but maybe isn't so optimal in the level ranges that see the most play.
Haven't watched til the end yet, but I don't think you can use the DBS with sneak attack - sneak attack requires a ranged or finesse weapon, and the DBS doesn't have those properties. As I read it, the DBS is a STR only weapon.
Edit - nvm, forgot about revenant blade.
Check out the Revenant blade feat
There is a feat for it
how would it look if you use green flame blade, booming blade with rapier.
that is how i would build my my rouge or other melee combatant with only 1 attack.
Doing a game with Gestalt settings. My partner is going to be a shadow sorcerer/warlock. I want to front load on melee to defend him. I want to have my build as skirmisher rogue/totem barbarian. Any advice?
I would be interested to know how well this feat works if you’re playing a Bladesinger wizard
It doesn’t. Pretty much everthing bladesinging does ends if you use a two-handed weapon.
What about a half valenar elf hexblade warlock that takes pact of the blade and conjures/binds to a double bladed scimitar? You could keep dex at 14 and pump everything else into con and cha.
If you're hexblade you can use it from lvl. 3 with your charisma, and elven accuracy could be a tempting feat instead. If you get advantage (for instance through casting darkness and having the devils sight invocation) you're getting 3 rolls per attack and an 19-20 crit if it's against your curse target. That should be a lot of crits, and you also have access to eldritch smite from 5th when you land those crits.
What do you think about a build around this?
I forgot to mention hex, but you want to have it up, obviously.
Casting darkness becomes more situational because you can't concentrate on both, but you can always have an arcane caster friend cast darkness on you and the enemies.
My main issue here is hex and hexblade curse use up bonus actions
@@TreantmonksTemple On the turn you set up curse, you can just Booming Blade. Same with any Hex switch after the initial cast, but I'd rather spend spell slots and concentration on other things. Now that I'm thinking of it, this could make it really good for an elven accuracy crit-fishing hexadin.
@@TreantmonksTemple I agree there's a conflict, but bonus action conflict is so common. You talked about the same problem with the rogue and hiding. Anyway, I think it's considerably better than the ranger, since you should have more uses of hex and curse, at least in low-mid levels, and the ranger either has to take a feat, or become pretty MAD if they're strength based. Plus the ranger isn't as good at tacking advantage of crits, which come up more often with bonus action attacks and elven accuracy. (and as Brendan points out, they don't get those sweet attack cantrips for when you don't have your bonus action).
Btw, super unrelated question, but how would you rate the alchemist artificer in your old school colour grade system, brown, or red?
i'm thinking playing hexblade warlock using a double bladed scimitar
Since the special property of the double scimitar directly competes with monk martial arts and adds nothing to the build every DM I’ve spoken to would allow it as a monk weapon for Kensai. As an exception
So if your going rogue and dipping to get spells shadow blade way better option that double bladed Scimitar.
Hi every one, I am leading a campaing in Eberron setting, and from my point of view, a character that has profency with doble bladed scimitar is using a two handed weapon, then, that caracter aplies bonus hability to bonus action attack damage. Is a racial weapon also, no elves are not allowed to use it. All is about rollplaying a valenar elf, no in optimizing maths.
It's still a weapon you want to run on fighter. Imo with eldrich knight. Grate weapon fighting evens it out so much by making it so your damage is so consistent and with revinant blade this gets to being silly for Dex fighters.
Great weapon fighting would let you reroll 1 & 2 on damage for the dual scimitar, pair that up with rogue and you're able to reroll both the d4s from the weapon and the d6s on sneak attacks. It would only require one level in fighter, which if you want to play another elf subrace this would be a must, and the rest can be rogue. Rerolling becomes even more valuable as your sneak attack increases/you pick up sentinel.
According to Sage Advice this doesn't work. GWF only allows you to reroll the 1d4 or 2d4 of the weapon, not any sneak or smite damage you might add. TM even mentions that in the video.
GWFS is only weapon damage dice. Otherwise it’d be busted on a Paladin using smite.
I discuss why GWF isn't great here in the vid.
@@TreantmonksTemple I thought you can reroll sneak attack since it adds to the weapons damage type, but not smite/spell since it's a different damage type/source. I was under the impression that the added dice worked like the added dice from something like a crit (i.e. you can reroll additional d6s from a greatsword that crits)
could you make a guide for Rogue/gloomstalker multi class. A build that is good lvl 1-20 that maxs damage and pliability.
How is losing one D4 bonus action damage for one turn but getting an extra 2D 6 pre a turn losing damage for hunters mark or hex
Good point.
You are not losing damage from hunter's mark or hex. You are losing damage from a reduction in weapon attacks. 1d4+Dex+additional sneak attack chance for 1d6 is not a trade worth your spell slot.
Treantmonk's Temple But if you’re a Ranger using DBS+Hunter’s Mark+Extra Attack it’s 2d6=7 versus 1d4+5=7.5. The difference is small and if any target survives for more than 1 round you come out ahead.
SharkForce Forgive me for not going through the math. I want to make it clear that I’m talking about a Ranger using DBS, hence Sneak Attack damage is irrelevant.
SharkForce As far as pure melee Rangers go, DBS IS the superior option. If you’re going to bring ranged vs melee into the equation, that’s really a design problem and yes every Ranger should just take Archery and SS and be done with it.
This character is interesting........ and what if we’re allowed to use the elf from eberron, how would the build change?
I did use the elf from Eberron
Can you use this for your storm blood hunter?
Question: I can't find it off hand but I don't have all my rules. and I might be confusing with Pathfinder only so I should ask. In 5E do half-elves qualify for elf? or is that pathfinder only?
Elven Accuracy feat states that all elves and half-elves are eligible for the feat.
Dex based Paladin with this weapon is legit
@treantmonk got any interest in coverinf some pathfinder 2e? I'd love to see your take on it.
I'm not planning any PF2 vids at this time.