3D Printing with Metal Composites and adding a Patina and Oxidation!
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ก.ย. 2018
- There are some good ways to get 3d printed models the way you want them. You can print with multiple types of filament and/or multiple colors, and you can sand, prime, and paint. HOWEVER, have you thought about adding a patina?
#3dprinting #patina #oxidation
Proto Pasta filaments:
Iron: 3d.pn/ppiron
Brass: 3d.pn/ppbrass
Bronze: 3d.pn/ppbronze
Sculpt Nouveau
sculptnouveau.com/
/ kijaidesign designs used:
Spiral Tower on MyMiniFactory:
www.myminifactory.com/object/...
The Citadel:
www.myminifactory.com/object/...
Twisted Tower:
www.myminifactory.com/object/...
TARDIS on Thingiverse by 23Maple:
www.thingiverse.com/thing:367130
CLICK THESE LINKS
Magigoo: thought3d.com
Matterhackers BUILD series filaments (aff) : 3d.pn/mhbuild
Matterhackers 3D Printers (aff) : 3d.pn/mhprinters
Proto Pasta (aff): 3d.pn/protopasta
Prusa (aff): 3d.pn/prusa
Puget Systems: 3d.pn/pugetsystems
Channel Merch Shop : 3d.pn/shop
3D Printing Nerd Shirts : 3d.pn/shirt
You can buy me a coffee
www.buymeacoffee.com/3dprinti...
www.ko-fi.com/joeltelling
You can support what we do via Patreon
3d.pn/patreon
You can show support while shopping at these retailers
--------------------------------
Find Me Socially!
--------------------------------
Twitch : / joeltelling
Twitter : / joeltelling
Facebook : / 3dprintingnerd
Instagram : / joeltelling
--------------------------------
Want to send me something?
--------------------------------
attn: 3D Printing Nerd
509 NE 165th st
Shoreline, WA 98155
USA
Music provided by futurevega.sourceaudio.com
Royalty Free Music by www.audiomicro.com/royalty-fre... - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
![[4K] TREASURE(트레저) “KING KONG” Band LIVE Concert 킹콩은 라이브를 찢어🦍 [it’s KPOP LIVE 잇츠라이브]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/p8bLLOxPDD8/mqdefault.jpg)
Months late to this video, but as a coatings engineer, oxidizing metals is one of the things I do for a living. It was encouraging to watch you taking notes and working through this process. We only know what we know, so even though times in the video made me cringe, it was enjoyable. I have a product that can oxidize brass to a dark brown in about 3 minutes. I also have done some brass PLA printing but never thought to mix these two items. Printing being my hobby while the oxidation is my job. You have inspired me to do some experimenting. Thank you!
Buy (or obtain access to) a small, used sandblasting or beadblasting cabinet. Set it up outdoors or in a well-ventilated garage. Lightly beadblast a model. Use compressed air to drive off the blasting media. Spray a patina solution on the model, preferably in a fine mist. Seal the model in a plastic container, so that the surface of the model is not touched by it. This prevents the solution from simply drying. Unseal and check the model every two hours, until the model presents the desired effect. Do not add detergent (which is a strong base) to patina solutions (which are mild acids). If you want to thicken the solution, experiment with Jell-O or other similar glycerine powder.
You will be amazed at the difference in the finish, as opposed to using a wire brush. Your models will look as weathered as you like. Sand or glass bead media will reach places that a brush never could, and you can easily control how lightly or heavily the blasting affects the surface. Enjoy.
-Doc
That is quite a crazy amount of work and money for a very minor effect you could just get with paint.
I think if done right on the right model the results would look amazing. I think Joel's basically liked like plastic with some paint splattered on it. He really needed to expose the base metal out of the plastic.
If it was just metal I would agree. The problem here is its mostly plastic. I think getting the desired effect with a sand blaster would be tricky without destroying the model or at the very least damaging small details.
Thanks for the tip! As I have a bead-blaster loaded with super fine silica at the shop, I'll have to try this! I've just never printed with a metal-fill yet since I've only bought bronze nozzles. Next purchase I'll try it out.
A Rock tumbler or such could also work. One of them Donut Deburing deals that vibrates. Fairly cheap at harbor freight and easy to set up and use.
As a blacksmith I have used a LOT of their products. GREAT stuff! If you plan a little, look at real metal and how it ages then mix those colors and in those amounts on the project. You can get a result that looks like the actual metal many many years old. It comes down to surface prep and how much you use of the colors, a light dusting is better than dripping wet. The thicker the coating the more the reaction. On the TARDIS models you sprayed heavy and it collected at the horizontal places thus more reaction. You are right about surface tension and the droplets causing more reaction. The wax is for layers of color, I have used up to 15 colors on work. Think of wear patterns also as you work.
AMAZING advice! Thank you!
The 'patches' were most likely caused by being slightly too close with the spray nozzle, need to give the solution a chance to be dispersed into a fine mist (some spray bottles you can twist the nozzle to control if you want a stream or a mist), but as well you could brush the model with the solution to evenly coat the solution.
From my (limited) experience with these sorts of solutions on metal infill parts, the problem is that even if you get an even layer initially, the solution will form into droplets on the surface over time. Roughing up the surface helps a bit, but you're better off submerging the model in solution or wrapping it in saturated paper towels to ensure an even coating. Or you can just spray the model down multiple times.
OH! crap. I'll have to try again!
The paper wrapped stuff came out really well. The backing soda experiment sounds cool.
Sandblasting may reduce details, However, if you use the crushed walnut shell for the blasting media it will do great without taking away the details. It is used in finely detailed blasting but won't damage soft materials. thus presto ready for aging with the compounds. Also, you can put them in saw shavings moistened with the compound and then place in a vacuum bag and remove most of the air and this will be a very cool result. use to do this all the time when I was the Assistant, Prop Design Director for the Houston Grand Opera. (many moons ago LOL).
Joel, great video! I know Alex is going to be wanting to try those patinas as well. Definitely will get better results from 3d printed parts and patina if you sand or brush the material first. Think of it this way, there are a bunch of metal beads trapped in plastic. By brushing or sanding you are removing that very thin layer of plastic encapsulating the bead of metal to expose it and allow the metal to directly contact the patina solution. Hope that helps and look forward to further experiments.
That's a Funky Cold Patina!
Love your videos! I found this one really interesting especially. I am looking forward to trying the metal based filaments in the future for some of my prints and want to get similar results. Thanks!
Love the iron wrapped in a paper towel. It fits the scale of the tower models better than the spray method. Great vid, saved me time/money. 👍
The blotchy finish is most likely due to the application technique. Spraying at a greater distance and with a finer mist, much like you would with paint or primer, should yield a more even result because the beads will be so small that they don't run into each other. On the same note, sanding might be more effective than a wire brush, I have also seen +Doc Stephens recommend a sand-/beadblasting chamber.
I think the iron TARDIS had the coolest result.
the wrapped japanese brown tardis stood out the best IMO because it smeared the solution instead of just gathering and making spotted dots all over. So yeah the japanese brown tardis looks awesome
Joel, as always this was awesome ! Thanks for this!
all the proto pasta metal filaments are like butter :D
The citadel are an amazing choice by the way. Great job!
17:00 That excited happy to experiment Joel that we all love
Watching your videos really inspire me to get a 3d printer! I love making models out of clay and painting almost everything so i really enjoy creating things. Therefore, i hope one day i can get into 3d printing and making cool models
Good idea. Quality content. Thumbs up!
That was awesome, Joel. Lots of good ideas.
Depending on your weather, you can leave the models with patina in a Tupperware type container to oxidize. It works like a steamer. The moisture evaporating then dripping back down. It works great in a dry hot climate like I live in. Open it outdoors.
Awesome of Sculpt Nouveau to let you showcase thier cool line of products! Great video as always ;)
This is really neat and definitely opens up new possibilities when finishing metal-filled 3d prints.
I think one thing to try after spritzing the solution on is to use a plastic bristle brush to spread out the solution on the surface to reduce the drops. You should also try spraying different solutions on the same model to see what happens.
Oxidized Good buddy! #HighFive! Another great video Joel! Love watching people experiment in new ways, with stuff they use everyday. Always interesting!
This would be fantastic for adding effects to tabletop terrain
Sanding flat surface = Rougher/More surface area (which will include loose particulates from sanding) = more reaction :D I love that you mentioned this!
I love seeing you try some new stuff for everyone.
You definitely overbrush with the bristle. 😂 It's okay we love you because you are a regular guy pursuing his hobby rather than a perfectly polished expert. I would definitely move a small amount of patina into a smaller spray bottle for a finer mist.
Do wear the face protection. A little goes a long way when you inhale these things.
With a little acrylic paint and some time the twisted tower model could look stunning. Might have to give that a go! Awesome video, love it!
Love those videos. I cant say how much i love them. Ultra mega hyper great job Joel! Keep doeing like this, hope youre fine, Danny from Italy.
Light green on that last tower was the absolute best!
Thanks for sharing😀👍
Haven't tuned in for a while now, but wow I really like the new format. Great Job, Joel! Very professional, could easily see this on television on a DIY channel. Keep it up!
Great video great idea I love this
I really like the black wax.
Suggestion Joel. Try scotch bright pads (available from paint stores, etc.) - particularly the red ones that have small metal flakes for abrasion. They even have some available for Dremel rotary tools. you might be able to highlight some areas more than others also. SO many possibilities!
Thanks!
I loved the middle square tower the best. Great ideas Joel!
Thank you!
Thanks for this. Always used salt vinegar or ammonia but the results are fairly unpredictable. Painting these solutions on should result in nice weathering. Just got these filaments to experiment.
Talc can be used as a thickener. It shouldn't react with the acid, but it might be partially soluble in it. the problem is that the polymer is hydrophobic and is poorly wetting. As Doc Stevens suggests try lightly sandblasting or vapor blasting the models to expose the metals and roughen the surface to improve wetting.
It would be a good idea to to send that company some of those 3-D prints to experiment on sense they made the solution they could probly give you some good ideas of ways to use it with 3-D print.
Heat helps speed up the process. Put the pieces in an enclosure with a small space heater set to low and respray or brush on more solution every hour or so. If it's hot outside you could put the pieces in a plastic container in direct sunlight and keep reapplying solution until you get the desired results. When I was doing bronze sculpture back in college we used a torch to get the metal hot to the touch then spray so the solution soaks evenly all over the piece. Careful use of a heat gun on low might be okay for these filaments and get a similar result.
Mix a little dawn soap in the spray oxidizer. Dawn soap lowers the tension in the skin surface of the water.
Good video. I belatedly remembered a source of weathering/patina dressing is the model railroad world. They have been doing this stuff for decades. It might be a good idea to check out some of their websites for methods, ideas, and materials.
Such a cool episode. You could experiment with so much stuff with the Petina. Paper towel gave a much better result!
Please try like a small Iron Super Mario but submerged in the Petina. Or a larger Brass Buda with a good Saturated paper towel all around the nooks and crannies to get like a purposed degraded look. :)
Thank you so much Joel. Your videos are so informative and entertaining. Thinking seriously on getting into 3d printing. Thank you again. Hi5
I use a similar product on polymer clay with metallic paints. I find that if you keep the "solution" wet that it works better and you get a deeper reaction, less spotting and more like with the Japanese brown you used. The product I use is by Christie Friesen and she has some great videos explaining the reactions of the various oxidizers. Love your videos
When I was an art student one of our go-to things for a patinating bronze was dirty cat litter. Would bury the piece in a bucket of the stuff for a couple of days to weeks.
Very Cool.
You NEED to try again with a tiny brush, adding patina in specific places as a very thin layer
just had a thought that these would be really cool to see in the polymaker polysher, atomise the liquids for an even distribution
Cool. I've been wondering about exactly this. I have barely started using my 3D printer, but I do patinas on metal every day. Mostly hot, so they won't work directly, but there are a lot of possibilities in cold patinas if you don't mind stronger, more corrosive chemicals. Look for books on Patinas if you want to mix your own rather than buying premixed from Sculpt-Nouveau.
I did the same experiments with metal fileld filaments from aprintapro, same effect, you can use malic acid on bronce/copper for Blueish patina and citric acid for a true green finish, but these take more time to develop than the comercialy available solutions. I us this technique to rust and age RC Car bodies
I have had some good results with the proto pasta stainless steel. I used a small stone to polish it and make the steel show up well.
I think it is worth mentioning that you have to pay attention to the typ of filter in your respirator and to the type of gloves you use, since chemical compounds can react in unexpected ways. Asknig the manufacturer about appropriate personal protection is highly recommended.
In addition, gloves are only offering protection for a limited amount of time, even if they are the appropriate type.
very cool stuff
Agreed!
That blue looks great on you Joel! :)
Lol "Japanese Brown for iron or steel" later that video "I thought the Japanese Brown was made for brass?"
According to the Sculpt-Nouveau docs the Japanese Brown will work on Copper, Brass, Bronze, Iron or Steel. When used cold on Copper, Brass or Bronze it will give a Golden Brown finish. When used cold on Iron or Steel a Brown Rust will form. The multitude of possible finishes with the SN products are simply amazing and you can layer them to get several different looks on a single model!
It occurred to me last night that these metallic and/or conductive filaments might electroplate really well. I did a quick search here on youtube and all I found were a few people plating standard PLA by coating the print in a powder first. If those filaments do plate well and the plating can hold up over time, then making things like replacement trim on a vintage car is suddenly a lot more accessible to people.
Hi!
Hope you have a nice day, happy printing!
Good collaboration dude. High Five!
So cool
Wtf using oxydising product with a metal support why are you such a genius?
Oh and why not using citric acid to make it gooyer
Reading the Sculpt Nouveau website, hot solution gives a different effect than cold. So a hot solution experiment would be interesting. Also I saw metal coatings on their website. It would be interesting to see how this coatings worked with an all PLA (or acetone smoothed ABS) model.
Your definition segments kept turning on my Google Home Mini and kept repeating what your video was saying. Thanks for that Mr. THE Nerd.
You should do another video testing different surface prep and application methods. This patina solution has some really interesting potential. Maybe get Punished Props on again to help out. I'd watch that video.
I know this may be off topic. Is it possible to print multiple ,identical parts,on the build surface at the same time? Or is 3d printing a one at a time,print in the middle of the plate condition? Can prints be done on different areas of the build plate to even out wear in the rail and roller guides?
I think you could get the best effect using a brush and applying the solution like you would a wash when doing weathering with paint.
Perhaps worth trying to buff the surface using 00 wire wool you must do this to bring metal particles to the serface as it’s the process used when applying the patina to a cold cast resin casting, it’s also possible to brush the patina fluids onto the models, fantastic job nonetheless 😜👍
You mentioned washes, I also wonder if applying the acids with a brush might allow a different look for the finish. Allow more control in the application.
Joel - try polishing the model before adding the patina. Perhaps you could use a Dremel with a polishing compound and a polishing cone or felt/cloth polishing wheel. Then I think the patina would mainly affect the nooks and crannies of the model and not the whole thing; might be very cool.
do you need to use a hardened steel nozzle? Does the filament work well with .4mm nozzles?
I have had great success oxidizing copper by soaking a plastic bag full of sawdust with solution and dropping the piece in for a night or two. Nice even patina,
to get patina look, on new parts, one should make the base layer in a root* color(if making an old house model, red brick-like) then applying washes*(overlays made from colors that would cover the entity in real life, like moss, sooth, ash, etc...)
Also to thicken up the solution, it is best to use Glycerin for it It works great!
Instead of baking soda, you can use flour. I've mixed flour with vinegar to help remove rust off of big pieces before. It's definitely weaker, but it successfully gets you a working acidic putty.
One trick I used to use on models was to take a #0000 steel wool pad spray with water, let is dry out naturally and rust and then roll it in my hand after it rusts to then rub the iron oxide (ish) rust onto the model. Sometimes I would shake or crush the pad OVER THE spots on the model I wanted the rust to settle into the seams then lightly blow it off then seal the rust in.
Now i will try it also out
Use common vinegar on the magnetic iron prints. Additionally add salt to the vinegar to create an even stronger reaction.
Love the tardises/tardii! Guar gum can be used as a thickener for acid dyes on fiber. Maybe that would work as a thickener with your solution?
I wonder if you can add a flow improver to keep is from being so dotted. Maybe some jet dry, acrylic air brush flow compoun, or even a touch of dish soap would help this solution more of a wash than an obvious spray bottle spray. Down side it might show off the print lines.
Use a drop of dish soap in the solution to lower the surface tension. This should help the "wetting" properties of the solution without changing the Ph. You should then get a more even coating of solution to lay on your printed parts. Let us know if it works and I'll be buying some of their solutions. Very cool effect for weathering.
I have a question, they call the filament brass and bronze but those two material shine , can these filaments be polished to a shine or at least a luster?
A small amount of detergent mixed into the patina solution would “wet” the water, reducing surface tension and the resulting beading. Isopropyl alcohol sprayed onto the plastic first might also help.
That's was what I was thinking to break the beading.
You have to consider that a lot of detergents are basic so it might foam and also neutralize the acids used in the solution. Then again, a small amount of detergent should go a long way so it might be worth experimenting with.
You'd be better off with a different surfactant. Isopropanol or ethanol might work. Depends on their reactions with the specific acids used.
Also it might be better to make a gel via gelatin or possibly a silicate compound, apply that, and then wipe it off after some time.
ooh, interesting. thank you for the tip!
Maybe Baby shampoo
Very interesting video. I'm a stained glass artist and have done patina work for years. But just getting started working with Proto-Pasta metal filaments and attempting Sculpt-Nouveau use on them. Interested to know if you've done any more testing or applied any of this on actual prints? And if you've learned anything more about how to use these techniques more effectively on Proto-Pasta filaments? And do you have anything to share on how the results have held up over the years? Did the patina stay as applied, get worse, better? Did you end up applying any Clear Coat to any models? If so, how did that work? And how has that held up? Did you experiment more with the best ways to use the black wax to highlight edges? They also make a gelling compound that you can use that helps to gel the finishes which keeps it attached to the model and doesn't allow it puddle along the bottom like you had happen. Would be interesting to see you have a go with that. Also interested in learning if you've played with doing more surface-prep to expose more metal for the reactions. Things like more sanding, more wire brushing, dremmel use (different bit types), tumbler use (amount of time, medium, etc.), etc.. Would like to see the best ways to help reduce layer lines prior to post work (i.e. would more prepping help reduce layer line visibility?, what about printing at smaller layer heights for more detailed prints to start with?). Such a plethora of post-processing options with these metal filled filaments that can lead to some outstanding results! Also, did you ever do anything with the other Sculpt-Nouveau products that you said were for a later video? Really wish you would spend more time on post-processing videos. Appreciate any additional info you can share. MIGHT BE TIME FOR AN UPDATE ON THIS TOPIC! Thanks.
"Oh these sprays contain some unknown acid" *puts aluminium foil underneath*
LPM Supporter I was thinking the same thing 😜.
you should make a bronze citadel with the patina and make a landscaped base that would sit in blueish resin and a tiny tiny model shark
Instead of baking soda you could try corn starch! It could react less but thicken the solution. Or you could even try Xanthan gum which shouldn't react.
Sculpt Nouveau should be able to advise, but i think the suggestion of thickening it with xanthan gum and applying it with a brush is a good one. A surfactant was my first thought, but I am unsure what surfactant might be compatible with the acid.
Hey Joel, what if you were to put the patina solution inside the polysher?
Would this filament be suitable for electroplating without a coating of conductive ink/paint?
Idea: maybe mix a little bit of soap in the liquid. This will break the surface tension of the liquid droplets and maybe provide a more even coat.
But I am digging the patchy look however. Nice job
@Wade Wilson modern soap is not necessarily very basic. old soap is though. Even though, there is very little soap needed to already achieve the desired effect, 10 - 100ppm is just fine to break the tension enough, after that the soap is in excess and will form aggregates and facilitates bubbles and stuff we don't want.
i wonder if that magnetic iron after being polished would except a cold bluing solution?
I'm curious as to whether adding a drop of dish detergent to act as a surfactant would spread the spray more evenly.
Could you use isopropyl alcohol to break the surface tension of the water on the models?
I think a softer more blended result would happen if the solution was applied with a airbrush. the spray particles would be finer
I'd suggest using a brush with these small parts. The beads look kinda artificial (...) and I think it could look better if you'd apply it in small cracks and details more "wisely", patina-ing à la Adam Savage so to speak :P
Oh and yeah, you might also scuff up some edges even more with the sandpaper, that could look amazing.
The idea with gumming the stuff up is really good! What would you think about corn starch or straight flour? You'd need something floury but not reactive, as you pointed out.
I'm really keen on new experiments with that stuff!
I do acid etching on concrete, you may want to use a paintbrush on those and see how it turns out, may take a seconde coat later.
Im curious as to how heat treating the metal fill models will change their reactions. Its supposed to solidify the metal particles. The multi piece models might need to be assembled when treating since the amount of shrinkage isnt even between materials or even directions in the same material.
Random 3d question, how does the Creality Ender 4 compare to the ender 3. I don't hear much about the 4. is it older than the ender 3 model? Thanks :)
I want to try that oxidization stuff to replace the turtle wax on my vehicle!
I’d like to see what happens if you polish those prints with polishing compound, how shiny would they get. I would assume the concentration of metal particles would make it kind of glittery
Hay Google, that set my phone even though it's supposed to be trained to my Cornish / British accent lol 😂😂 "Time for tea, and cream takes Joel?" Or a Cornish Pasty lol 😂
For art class we used vinegar and salt to patina copper
i tried this on colorfab bronzefill but could really get the effect i wanted.
Great video! Unfortunately my 3D printer doesn’t have an enclosure - are these metal composite filaments non-toxic to print with?
I've only printed a few small samples of iron and bronze. It prints a bit like standard PLA although some filament is brittle so care needed when handling. Interesting results but overall I wasn't impressed enough to buy a whole reel. I'm going to try electroplating my regular PLA prints instead.