Just picked up a set of poseidon jetstream 1st and 2nd stage for my son, set has been in box for 20yrs never used Ed Sorenson said there good to go in the water if never used I would hold you just as or more knowledgeable, would you agree? Now i really cant wait for your poseidon video. I'm very curious to see how they compare to HOG or a scubapro 370, 156, and g250.
The differences were very subtle. And check out this bench test when I did a little retuning! scubaboard.com/community/threads/regulator-performance-at-max-safe-gas-density.627229/post-9851438 It's a great value regulator. Could you do slightly better if you thought you were going to go deep without Helium in current? Maybe, but by only a little. I wouldn't hesitate to dive it.
After watching I have a new profound appreciation for what's involved in these modern marvels wish I had the equipment to test them myself just curious for the average recreational diver in Florida with occasional dives to 120ft and limited wreck diving what set up if you only had one would you pick diaphragm, piston and what brand ? Thanks
Great channel wish you would test more regulators what initially got me into quality regulators was a dive with a Dacor Vyper Tec in 2001 where at 80ft it became very difficult to breathe and quite scary it only occurred at depth over 60ft and I still have the same regulator which was rebuilt at the advice of Mares Lake Hickory Scuba. I've yet to try it after the rebuild and tuning as he stated when tuned properly, they are excellent. Any experience with these old dacor vypers?
Dacor made great regulators! I'm sure your bad experience was more a tuning problem than a flaw in the reg. I'm glad you were able to find service, as there are no original parts available anymore, and few of us can still service that brand.
Great thing you did there! For dense gas, can you say a 2nd stage with a shorter travel lever would technically perform better in terms of flow and ease of inhalation?
For any given cracking effort, lever length should not affect flow and ease of inhalation with denser gas at depth. As a design challenge, it's typically harder to provide better mechanical performance, the shorter the lever, due to friction and lever arm length. However, several modern small case designs have overcome this. The bottom line is that it's probably internal case shape and Venturi vanes/baffles that most affect flow as gas density increases.
Thanks for the reply! My premise is that a shorter lever would have less total friction and open the valve sooner but then, it would need more force to overcome the spring. I have seen some oceanic regulators with rollers at there lever wondered how much improvement it produced. I have for the longest time, set my venturi lever midpoint as it provided the smoothest flow based on my perception. Indeed, venturi is not binary as what manufacturers say but close to linear in effect. Looking forward to your next video!
Regulator Geeks #4 is coming October 3, at 6:30pm! We'll look in depth at the new Atomic TFX. us02web.zoom.us/j/87484585294?pwd=MER1L0RhTlFVNno1UmIrZUpwOWJFQT09
The Signature doesn't have a problem. It was one of the most stable regs in the test. The tiny diffferences discussed among the 11 regs were not seen at the surface and were only found at 120 feet in "edge of the envelope" tests. I wouldn't hesitate to dive any of the regs tested. Both the Signature and the Excursion are huge value in regs. The Excursion second stage has a very strong case that makes it great as a reg for dive trips where equipment may get knocked around. Both designs make the cost of more expensive gear hard to justify.
@Robert Singler Sorry for all of the questions. I really would love to join the next live chat because I feel someone like the average Joe would help maybe draw in more audience. Trust me, I have plenty of questions to ask about the whole dive industry as everything seems to be coated in magical dust these days that really doesn't seem to justify the cost. I think it would be interesting if you did a breakdown in what is necessary for each category of diver and explain what is it your really getting as you move up each regulators line. For instance, dry mouth always bothered me, so the sherwood oasis looks appealing on the outside, but if it's so good to prevent this side effect, then why doesn't every regulator incorporate it? Do you know when the next live chat is? Thank you.
Join ScubaBoard.com! It's the world's largest scuba forum. You can discuss your questions there, and the next seminar will be announced in the Regulator forum there. We'll be discussing the Poseidon design.
If dynamic intermediate pressure drops to, say, 60 psi on a big breath at 300 tank, most standard second stages will get very stiff. Gentle breathing will be unaffected. However, center balanced seconds like the D420 (and old D-400 if you can find one) do just fine down to 40psi IP. Center balanced seconds are rare, but magical in that regard.
Just left a message with Dive Lab Inc on your emails not being replied to and how your knowledge and dedication to this topic at least require a response.
Just picked up a set of poseidon jetstream 1st and 2nd stage for my son, set has been in box for 20yrs never used Ed Sorenson said there good to go in the water if never used I would hold you just as or more knowledgeable, would you agree? Now i really cant wait for your poseidon video. I'm very curious to see how they compare to HOG or a scubapro 370, 156, and g250.
just awesome, thx so much for the efforts and time you took for the tests, analysis and presentation Rob!
Great presentation as always doc.... curious will you be doing an evaluation on the new Aquatic's TFX regulator?
The TFX'll be the very next Regulator Geeks!
Coming up in the next few weeks, I think.
Sorry Doc did not see your invite until it was too late.... Are your intentions to upload it to TH-cam.... Kind regards Marc @@robertsingler7258
@@marcd6866 It's being uploaded as we speak. Should get published in the next 8 hours.
Thank you for all this effort. I'm disappointed with how the Deep 6 did in your tests. I'm wondering if I should change types.
The differences were very subtle. And check out this bench test when I did a little retuning!
scubaboard.com/community/threads/regulator-performance-at-max-safe-gas-density.627229/post-9851438
It's a great value regulator. Could you do slightly better if you thought you were going to go deep without Helium in current? Maybe, but by only a little. I wouldn't hesitate to dive it.
1:40:04
Did you ever find out about the spokes on the exhaust case for the D6 sig? Could you sand the spokes down to improve the exhale performance?
Excellent!
After watching I have a new profound appreciation for what's involved in these modern marvels wish I had the equipment to test them myself just curious for the average recreational diver in Florida with occasional dives to 120ft and limited wreck diving what set up if you only had one would you pick diaphragm, piston and what brand ? Thanks
Great channel wish you would test more regulators what initially got me into quality regulators was a dive with a Dacor Vyper Tec in 2001 where at 80ft it became very difficult to breathe and quite scary it only occurred at depth over 60ft and I still have the same regulator which was rebuilt at the advice of Mares Lake Hickory Scuba. I've yet to try it after the rebuild and tuning as he stated when tuned properly, they are excellent. Any experience with these old dacor vypers?
Dacor made great regulators! I'm sure your bad experience was more a tuning problem than a flaw in the reg. I'm glad you were able to find service, as there are no original parts available anymore, and few of us can still service that brand.
Great thing you did there! For dense gas, can you say a 2nd stage with a shorter travel lever would technically perform better in terms of flow and ease of inhalation?
For any given cracking effort, lever length should not affect flow and ease of inhalation with denser gas at depth. As a design challenge, it's typically harder to provide better mechanical performance, the shorter the lever, due to friction and lever arm length. However, several modern small case designs have overcome this.
The bottom line is that it's probably internal case shape and Venturi vanes/baffles that most affect flow as gas density increases.
Thanks for the reply! My premise is that a shorter lever would have less total friction and open the valve sooner but then, it would need more force to overcome the spring. I have seen some oceanic regulators with rollers at there lever wondered how much improvement it produced.
I have for the longest time, set my venturi lever midpoint as it provided the smoothest flow based on my perception. Indeed, venturi is not binary as what manufacturers say but close to linear in effect.
Looking forward to your next video!
Did you get a chance to test the C370 yet, considering how popular it is?
Regulator Geeks #4 is coming October 3, at 6:30pm!
We'll look in depth at the new Atomic TFX.
us02web.zoom.us/j/87484585294?pwd=MER1L0RhTlFVNno1UmIrZUpwOWJFQT09
Any chance of a new video or live chat? I hope you're ok Doc.
New video coming soon on the new Atomic TFX.
Another session planned for Poseidon regs this fall.
@robertsingler7258 Can't wait, putting a collection of scubapro regs for my son when he is older looking at a d420 after I saw your lecture on it.
When is the next live video?
Does the deep 6 excursion have the same problem as the signature considered its cheaper, and are they worth the expense over the excursion thanks.
The Signature doesn't have a problem. It was one of the most stable regs in the test. The tiny diffferences discussed among the 11 regs were not seen at the surface and were only found at 120 feet in "edge of the envelope" tests. I wouldn't hesitate to dive any of the regs tested.
Both the Signature and the Excursion are huge value in regs. The Excursion second stage has a very strong case that makes it great as a reg for dive trips where equipment may get knocked around. Both designs make the cost of more expensive gear hard to justify.
@Robert Singler Sorry for all of the questions. I really would love to join the next live chat because I feel someone like the average Joe would help maybe draw in more audience. Trust me, I have plenty of questions to ask about the whole dive industry as everything seems to be coated in magical dust these days that really doesn't seem to justify the cost. I think it would be interesting if you did a breakdown in what is necessary for each category of diver and explain what is it your really getting as you move up each regulators line. For instance, dry mouth always bothered me, so the sherwood oasis looks appealing on the outside, but if it's so good to prevent this side effect, then why doesn't every regulator incorporate it? Do you know when the next live chat is? Thank you.
Join ScubaBoard.com! It's the world's largest scuba forum. You can discuss your questions there, and the next seminar will be announced in the Regulator forum there. We'll be discussing the Poseidon design.
Will all 2nd stages become difficult to breathe at 300psi on a mk20 or does it have more to do with the second stage. Thanks
If dynamic intermediate pressure drops to, say, 60 psi on a big breath at 300 tank, most standard second stages will get very stiff. Gentle breathing will be unaffected.
However, center balanced seconds like the D420 (and old D-400 if you can find one) do just fine down to 40psi IP. Center balanced seconds are rare, but magical in that regard.
Has the 370 been fixed on the fail section?
Just left a message with Dive Lab Inc on your emails not being replied to and how your knowledge and dedication to this topic at least require a response.
I had a set of Jetstream regs and i sold them cheap they were the worst clunky reg i have ever used. Sorry just .y experiance
The current on the Spiegel is a nightmare if you catch it WRONG.. well (technically Spiegel was SUNK TWICE ) and flipped once by Katrina LOL