Good stuff. I'm a 70 year old neophyte trombonist multi-tracking and you answered my questions without making me feel old and stupid (like a different video from a different site I just finished watching). Thanks.
I've watched a few gain staging videos and this process by far is the easiest i have seen. Gem. Thanks and keep up the good work...Logic gang gang gang.
Thank you so much for the wonderful comment! I’m really glad that you found it helpful! Is there anything in the future you would like me to cover? Let me know and I will definitely put that on the list
@@mythicalnoise5785 Your welcome and I will definitely let you know topics to cover as they pop up. I will continue to watch your videos as it gives a fresh perspective of logic. I know ther
No WAY!! WTF!! OMG THANK YOU SO MUCH!!! IM WORKING ON AN 87 TRACK PROJECT RN AND GOT STUCK DREADING GAIN STAGING EVERYTHING!!! U JUST MESSED THE GAME UP!!!! U DESERVE SO MANY MORE SUBS AND VIEWS!!! CANT WAIT FOR OTHER VIDEOS. OH MAN!!!
How did your audio engineering school go? I really want to get into audio in some way with working, I love tv and film stuff, love composing stuff too but just overall want to find a stable job that’s in the ballpark of the audio world! I can always keep making my own music for fun on the side.
Have any of you guys seen the volumes on the Montero project in 10.7? I’m really surprised by how hot the volumes are all running! Thoughts? Is it okay to not be in the green??
I followed a few tips from this video and now when I power up my usb guitar processor I can barely hear it. Is there something I’m missing that I may have changed to get this to work again.
Im mixing ITB and I’ve tried everything and seems like my mixes still come out little and small vs commercial releases 🙄. Thinking about mixing through a mixing console where I have real gain knobs.
Also I tried to do the -18 gain change for my vocals but nothing happens so I tried the loudness settings and did -24luffs since that’s around a good spot from what I’ve heard to have your vocals at before any plugins hit them and it changed then but didn’t with the other setting. Any idea why that is?
i dont understand . so if i change the post fader to a pre fader am i able to use the fader to affect the pre gain of my recordings ? and is it on one track or all of them
No the fader still only affects the output signal but you will have a clear visual representation of your input gain rather than being fooled by the post fader meters which could look line they have head room but in actual fact they’re clipping.
Why wouldn’t i just set my preamp levels on my inputs to peak around -18? Gain staging should be done before recording even begins no? Example: plug in mic, sing into mic, adjust gain on preamp so that the audio coming in is around -18. Then there will be minimal gain staging in the mixdown.
Im quite surprised it’s that fiddly to get to pre-fader metering selection, as this is something we’d be doing with every track Thanks for great vid by the way
Thanx. I don‘t quite understand: when do you use these -18 DB on every track? At the end of mixing or at the beginning? Or how should I understand this?
thank you so much this is great help. One question, when normalizing to -18 db, my songs ends up being too low and not loud enough after bouncing. Any suggestion?
You need to master it after mixing to bring the entire volume up to hit slightly below zero. Throw an adaptive limiter on your stereo out, and set the ceiling to -- 0.1 and then push the level up and then bounce.
@@raydarvishi4805 Thank you for your reply. I did ad the adaptive limiter, but when I crank up the gain, the the peak level keeps hitting the yellow and red. Not sure what to do now. Please help. thanks.
Try mix bus processing…. Send instruments to group busses and start adding compression, saturation, clipping etc etc thus should give you some extra volume and help you push your limited a bit harder my taking the peaks before driving it into a brick wall 😅
This may be a silly question but isn't putting your gain plugin at the very start (top) make your other plugins (such as compression) work harder? Wouldn't it make more sense to put your gain plugin at the end of the chain? If I'm sending say bass tracks, out to the studio, & trying to send everything off at say, -12db.... shouldn't I be putting the gain plugin at the end? (Again, very sorry if this is a silly question)
So in another video, I haven’t watched this one YET to clarify but what I saw people doing was starting and ending with a gain plugin. I can’t remember what all was going on and you might be right about making stuff work harder, but their goal was to make it so the 🎚 fader was sitting still with no adjustments, but getting the resulting sound to START at -13dB, so when they got to the mixdown fase they could just adjust the gain plug-in at the end of the chain, and then do little micro slides with the stem faders. The reason you want to keep them as untouched as possible is because they’re much more reactive if you have to lower the fader down -30db just to achieve a -13dB output
Thank you. I record at -12 to -6db but should I be putting on a gain plug-in to reduce to -18db before hitting the plugins or just making sure the gain is the same going in as it is going out of the plugins?
No that’s not necessary! I think it’s just important to keep in mind that your input signal or pre-fader metering could be hotter than your post fader depending on what processing you’re using. Ensuring that you are clipping is more important for a recording scenario than VST or any virtual instrument
No problem! The -18 DB rule was really meant for producers using analog gear when recording. They needed to know how loud the signal going in was because recording on tape has noise. -18db roughly translates to 0 on VU meter.
I didn’t really get the prefader and postfader thingy. Are you saying we need to check both to ensure they are not clipping? If yes, does the -18dB rule still apply? So I’m learning how to mix and gainstaging before I start moving things is necessary as I was taught. What’s your take?
Pre fader is MOST important when recording audio. You could be too hot signal wise pre-fader if you are unaware of your levels. The -18 rule traditionally was for old analog producers to let them know the signal coming in was just right. So yah. Just double check always that you aren’t clipping pre fader.
So at the point where you gain stage your tracks to -18 and leave the faders at 0dB. Even at -18, some tracks may be louder than others, mix-wise. Is it ok to lower the faders to balance out the mix? I know a "rule of thumb" is to leave faders at 0.
@@trigganomproductions5341 Thanks! I know the meter on the individual tracks are peak levels so I wasn’t sure if that was the meter we should be referring to or putting on a loudness meter on each track and read the rms on that instead.
Sometimes in logic you have to enable “advanced settings” for these tools to show up in your DAW. I don’t have my computer with me right now to check but I would try that. I think it’s in preferences somewhere
Dude, Logic does NOT use VST plugins. It uses AU plugins. They are not the same thing. For example, Focusrite, originally, was including only VST plugins with their interfaces, so Logic users could not use the included plugins. I was not a happy camper. If u install a VST, you are SOL in Logic. Just sayin’.
Good stuff. I'm a 70 year old neophyte trombonist multi-tracking and you answered my questions without making me feel old and stupid (like a different video from a different site I just finished watching). Thanks.
I've watched a few gain staging videos and this process by far is the easiest i have seen. Gem. Thanks and keep up the good work...Logic gang gang gang.
Thank you so much for the wonderful comment! I’m really glad that you found it helpful! Is there anything in the future you would like me to cover? Let me know and I will definitely put that on the list
@@mythicalnoise5785 Your welcome and I will definitely let you know topics to cover as they pop up. I will continue to watch your videos as it gives a fresh perspective of logic. I know ther
Thank you soo sooo much. Finally, a straightforward gain staging tutorial that I can actually follow! Subscribed 🙏🏼
many thanks for this video!
What is the best way to approach gain staging on midi tracks?
Thanks so much, I had no idea about pre and post faders
Pre-fader is definitely important when considering recording audio. Just to make sure the input signal is not clipping.
Thanks 🙂
fantastic explanation!
this auto played for me! im glad it did because I can now sub to someone providing real & easy to digest audio information!
No WAY!! WTF!! OMG THANK YOU SO MUCH!!! IM WORKING ON AN 87 TRACK PROJECT RN AND GOT STUCK DREADING GAIN STAGING EVERYTHING!!! U JUST MESSED THE GAME UP!!!! U DESERVE SO MANY MORE SUBS AND VIEWS!!! CANT WAIT FOR OTHER VIDEOS. OH MAN!!!
How did your audio engineering school go? I really want to get into audio in some way with working, I love tv and film stuff, love composing stuff too but just overall want to find a stable job that’s in the ballpark of the audio world! I can always keep making my own music for fun on the side.
If possible visit him and buy him the most expensive steak
Thanks!
Why when i do -18 does the VU meter not display 0 its also showing around -18 :S
Changed my life 🍾
Have any of you guys seen the volumes on the Montero project in 10.7? I’m really surprised by how hot the volumes are all running! Thoughts? Is it okay to not be in the green??
This was so educational. This is certainly great for guys like me. I had no clue!!.. MythicalNoise. Thanks man. Im a fan!!
What do the track measure on the UV meter after you dropped them to -18? For some reason you turned the meter off and we couldn't see.
Thank you so mush⋯⋯ I usually use vu meter to find the sweet spot of each track one by one. Your method is really fast!
Best process ever!
Hello. Thank you very much for the really good advice. However, I would like to know how to build the gain structure of guitar amplifiers in Logic.
Why does normalize region gain not come up on ym functions?
when i choose the tracks and tap function....the normalize region gain is off and i cant select..why ?
thanks man, i just turned 143 and im new to all this and i wanna make some real in the trenches hood shit and you helped me do that today.
I followed a few tips from this video and now when I power up my usb guitar processor I can barely hear it. Is there something I’m missing that I may have changed to get this to work again.
Great lesson, Thanks!
Does this work the same with vocals?
Straight to the point. Thanks man. Subscribed
if I put a gain plug in on the track and reduce the track volume.. is it the same thing ?
Always make sure you put a gain plugin on your tracks at +24db, then try adding chromaverb
Im mixing ITB and I’ve tried everything and seems like my mixes still come out little and small vs commercial releases 🙄. Thinking about mixing through a mixing console where I have real gain knobs.
How come it doesn’t work with midi channels ??
Also I tried to do the -18 gain change for my vocals but nothing happens so I tried the loudness settings and did -24luffs since that’s around a good spot from what I’ve heard to have your vocals at before any plugins hit them and it changed then but didn’t with the other setting. Any idea why that is?
Didnt work for me. Is there a setting that may ne on that doesnt allow me to do this?
Well explained dude!
I know 🛀🩳🌹
Holy crap thank you so much. Idk how to put it into words you’re just the only one that made it make sense. Thanks man!
Exelente video ! Tnxs!
Thank you so much man .
i dont understand . so if i change the post fader to a pre fader am i able to use the fader to affect the pre gain of my recordings ? and is it on one track or all of them
No the fader still only affects the output signal but you will have a clear visual representation of your input gain rather than being fooled by the post fader meters which could look line they have head room but in actual fact they’re clipping.
I’ve searched high and low for this tutorial. Thank God I’ve found you 🙌🏿🙌🏿🙌🏿
im confused? i did this exact thing but it just randomized the gain levels for all my tracks 🧐 thats not normal right?
So what about midi tracks how to you gain stage those
thxs, i alwys wondered about this...
Some people use vu meters in it necessary to use vu meters in logic?
Why wouldn’t i just set my preamp levels on my inputs to peak around -18? Gain staging should be done before recording even begins no? Example: plug in mic, sing into mic, adjust gain on preamp so that the audio coming in is around -18. Then there will be minimal gain staging in the mixdown.
game changer, thank you!
great video. loving learning something new, years into making music, and then saying OOO thats why my music sucks.
Thanks man.
What about if you dont have VU Meter and how can we find a perfect meter with rms?
Im quite surprised it’s that fiddly to get to pre-fader metering selection, as this is something we’d be doing with every track
Thanks for great vid by the way
So what you’re saying is post faded is useless and always mix in pre fader mode?
very useful. Thanks!
awesome tutorial :)
UR THE BOSS
Thanks man!
No prob 😊
Why did I not find this until now??!!
Thanx. I don‘t quite understand: when do you use these -18 DB on every track? At the end of mixing or at the beginning? Or how should I understand this?
At the very beginning just after importing your tracks.
@@phadrus Thanx!
So -18 peak is 0 on a vu meter ?
so for a vocalist, would it be best to normalize the region gain before recording?
Normalize and turn gain to +20db.
@@mythicalnoise5785 do you mean -20? I always hear the gain should be in the negative.
Excellent presentation, thank you!
Thank you
do a video on editing
thank you so much this is great help. One question, when normalizing to -18 db, my songs ends up being too low and not loud enough after bouncing. Any suggestion?
You need to master it after mixing to bring the entire volume up to hit slightly below zero. Throw an adaptive limiter on your stereo out, and set the ceiling to -- 0.1 and then push the level up and then bounce.
@@raydarvishi4805 Thank you for your reply. I did ad the adaptive limiter, but when I crank up the gain, the the peak level keeps hitting the yellow and red. Not sure what to do now. Please help. thanks.
Try mix bus processing…. Send instruments to group busses and start adding compression, saturation, clipping etc etc thus should give you some extra volume and help you push your limited a bit harder my taking the peaks before driving it into a brick wall 😅
This was really helpful to me, thank you very much bro. keep it up
I think you just saved my mixes
VST?
Yes.
This may be a silly question but isn't putting your gain plugin at the very start (top) make your other plugins (such as compression) work harder? Wouldn't it make more sense to put your gain plugin at the end of the chain? If I'm sending say bass tracks, out to the studio, & trying to send everything off at say, -12db.... shouldn't I be putting the gain plugin at the end? (Again, very sorry if this is a silly question)
So in another video, I haven’t watched this one YET to clarify but what I saw people doing was starting and ending with a gain plugin. I can’t remember what all was going on and you might be right about making stuff work harder, but their goal was to make it so the 🎚 fader was sitting still with no adjustments, but getting the resulting sound to START at -13dB, so when they got to the mixdown fase they could just adjust the gain plug-in at the end of the chain, and then do little micro slides with the stem faders. The reason you want to keep them as untouched as possible is because they’re much more reactive if you have to lower the fader down -30db just to achieve a -13dB output
Thank you. I record at -12 to -6db but should I be putting on a gain plug-in to reduce to -18db before hitting the plugins or just making sure the gain is the same going in as it is going out of the plugins?
No that’s not necessary! I think it’s just important to keep in mind that your input signal or pre-fader metering could be hotter than your post fader depending on what processing you’re using.
Ensuring that you are clipping is more important for a recording scenario than VST or any virtual instrument
@@mythicalnoise5785 thank you
No problem! The -18 DB rule was really meant for producers using analog gear when recording. They needed to know how loud the signal going in was because recording on tape has noise. -18db roughly translates to 0 on VU meter.
Perfect. I think I was making this process way too complicated. You’ve made it much easier. Thank you.
Thank you! I’m glad you found it helpful! What were you doing in your mix before watching the video?
@@mythicalnoise5785 believe it or not, I was meticulously adjusting each fader. Very tedious and time-consuming.
Sorry to hear that. Glad I could help!
Exactly what i was looking for. Good guide. Thumbs up from a fellow creator 😅
Awesome! Thank you so much! Glad you found value our video. I will have to check out your page as well :-)
I didn’t really get the prefader and postfader thingy. Are you saying we need to check both to ensure they are not clipping? If yes, does the -18dB rule still apply?
So I’m learning how to mix and gainstaging before I start moving things is necessary as I was taught. What’s your take?
Pre fader is MOST important when recording audio. You could be too hot signal wise pre-fader if you are unaware of your levels.
The -18 rule traditionally was for old analog producers to let them know the signal coming in was just right.
So yah. Just double check always that you aren’t clipping pre fader.
So at the point where you gain stage your tracks to -18 and leave the faders at 0dB. Even at -18, some tracks may be louder than others, mix-wise. Is it ok to lower the faders to balance out the mix? I know a "rule of thumb" is to leave faders at 0.
Do what you need to do. Then, leave at Least 5db headroom on your mix, so volume can be boosted with a limiter in the master.
Big up
I just have one question for you if I may ? When gain staging should you be checking your meter for -18db Peak, or -18db RMS ?
This is my same question! Anyone?
@@LouBurna it’s -18 rms
@@trigganomproductions5341 Thanks! I know the meter on the individual tracks are peak levels so I wasn’t sure if that was the meter we should be referring to or putting on a loudness meter on each track and read the rms on that instead.
I feel like every virtual instrument defaults at “way too friggin loud”
When I go into functions, this option is not available, does anybody know why this may be?
Sometimes in logic you have to enable “advanced settings” for these tools to show up in your DAW. I don’t have my computer with me right now to check but I would try that. I think it’s in preferences somewhere
✊🏾💯
Hey all! If you would be so kind to come over to check out www.northwestempiremusic.com for more!!
🤯
-12 db ssshh thank me later
😍
Dude, Logic does NOT use VST plugins. It uses AU plugins. They are not the same thing.
For example, Focusrite, originally, was including only VST plugins with their interfaces, so Logic users could not use the included plugins. I was not a happy camper.
If u install a VST, you are SOL in Logic. Just sayin’.
As of now, just for you, every future video AU plugins are now VSTs!!
Thank you.