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@@TheGrinningViking None of my audience are children. Most of my audience are 20-30 and they are well within their rights to make their own judgements on the content they consume Moreover, I'm a strong advocate for proper parenting and supervision - games should not be able to have access to childrens' parents' credit cards at the click of a button
@@MertKayKay You aren't allowed to make a TH-cam account if you are under 18 according to the TOS. Very few teenagers or preteens get their parents to make an account for them. They just put in an age that is old enough. Enough of your audience is kids without enough experiencd to inoculate themselves against deliberately addictive skinner box tactics that it's a good deal for Raid.
@@TheGrinningViking I'm not responsible for any number of people who break TOS to watch content they're not supposed to be watching :) These people also may or may not exist, and the existence of some kind of Schrodinger's demographic is no bearing for moral discussion. Half my audience could be made of pudding. Who knows? I can't prove they're not.
Actor Ted Levine did a lot of research for the role of Buffalo Bill and met with a lot of trans people at bars and nightclubs. He ultimately came to the conclusion that his character was neither trans nor gay, and was a homophobic misogynist. Unfortunately like you said a lot of his characterization is missing in the film and Levine feels awful about how his portrayal of the character has hurt people, which I don't think is his fault if the backstory is on the cutting room floor.
A lot of people who claim the “trans woman” identity are homophobic misogynists. This has been going on since the phenomenon has been studied. I wish this was a conversation we could have in a respectful and mature manner but it’s not happening yet.
@@sarahb8147 taking a look at your subscriptions and seeing numerous channels discussing "transgender indoctrination" and "gender ideology," something tells me you don't actually care at all about respectful, mature conversation and instead just want to take the opportunity to punch down at a group that people with your beliefs actively victimize. nice job trying to feign civility though ♥
@@scrambledmeg the vast majority of the channels and creators I subscribe to are unquestioningly trans-positive. I do subscribe to some alternative viewpoints as well because some questionable behavior I’ve long observed, particularly online, by people claiming the identity of trans women, is concerning to me. I don’t understand why the trans community is not also concerned about these people who do not seem to belong in the category of “trans” yet are claiming to represent the trans community. I’m a white woman; when I see a white woman being (for example) racist, I call that out and denounce her. I don’t see that happening in the trans community. You can be as unsympathetic to my diverse subscribed channels as you want. Those channels are only able to survive and thrive because of the constant LOUD misbehavior of some of these people claiming the trans identity. Those people are behaving like terrorists and giving dangerous levels of bad press to actual trans people. I’m not getting the vibe you really want to discuss this, and the comments section of this video probably isn’t the place, anyway. But we’re getting to the point where someone is going to have to address the bad actors latching onto and trying to take over the trans community. When a similar phenomenon happened back in the 70s with NAMBLA trying to latch on to the gay rights movement, gay people excised and denounced them in no uncertain terms. If they’d made a different decision, gay marriage might not be accepted today like it is-as a same-sex-attracted person myself, that’s a sobering and disturbing thought. The entire gay community should not have the responsibility of getting rid of bad actors in order to have basic human rights, but that’s the system we live in and their decision to put an end to NAMBLA’s leeching was crucial to their acceptance into society. I hope the trans community does the same thing and gets the predators and autogynephiles claiming and defiling their name out of their movement. Because right now you have average Joes who see these loud voices claiming trans identities on Twitter and reddit and you know what they think? “Hey, that reminds me of Buffalo Bill.” We should want the director’s intent to be preserved-he understood that trans women are NOT like Buffalo Bill and he never intended Bill to be a representation of the trans community. We shouldn’t have real-life people ACTING like Buffalo Bill creating bad press for the trans community, either.
I feel baffled that someone can watch this movie where in the opening scene, Clarice steps into an elevator full of men and they're all ogling her... And come out the other end saying there's no statements on gender or sexuality.
I recently read the book, and its pretty much the main theme, without ever being addressed directly, what starling has to deal with constantly, solely because she's a woman
Most of the men in the elevator scene don't even look at Clarice. And the ones that do are not looking at her boobs or ass. I think the scene was trying to portray that everyone else was male and she was the only woman there. But we shouldn't just assume that the men were ogling her just because they were in an elevator with her.
You can write about situations where a female character is oggled at without making a statement. It's hard to tell if it is a statement as you say, or just a thing that happened and has no relation to the themes that the writer wanted to address in the book, but just a situation where the main character is shown to be different from her companions. That would make the situation personal and relating to the main characters and her motivations whatnot. And not a symbolic statement about women all over. I don't know what it is, but I think you can watch that scene and come out the other end saying what you wrote.
When other TH-cam essayists talk about this movie they seem to portray Hannibal in a positive light. Sure, he's a monster that unalives people for trivial reasons, butchers them like livestock and eats them, but at least, he doesn't objectify Clarice's body like all the other men in the film do; he actually seems to respect her and see her as a qualified agent first and a woman second. I am in that camp. But I've never considered your take: Lecter is just as bad as the other men; even if he isn't exactly like them, he still plays with her mind like it's his toy. A mental objectification. He plays with her memories and trauma for his own amusement. I've seen this movie 20+ times and I never thought about this. Thanks for this video. Because of how charming and interesting he is, I often forget that Hannibal Lecter is the villain.
Thank you! For my first few viewings I 100% had the same opinion as you: he talks to her like an equal, he doesn't objectify her, he doesn't want sex. But the more I watched the more I asked "Why did Crawford 'sacrifice' Clarice to her? Is that why he picked her? What does Lecter get out of this?" and I started to think maybe Lecter isn't the sweet pea he seemed
I think people like Lector because he can control people even when he's in a cell. And he's even more dangerous once he inevitably uses his intelligence to get out.
I find objectifying a person's mind, their feelings and emotions can be far more sadistic and terrifying. Be it a crude manipulator, or an inmate who's bored and has found his prey in an aspiring FBI Agent, it's quite the scary thing to witness in these instances. It's why I think, in many ways, Hannibal is the worst of them all. He's kind of like the "unthinkable" and "unpredictable" - something Clarice would have never been prepared for, and possibly as a result, made her feel things no sleezy creep had before. Perhaps, in that sense, leaving her feeling the most vulnerable she ever had. You could also argue though, given the outcome by the end of the movie, that Lecter's interactions with Clarice strengthened her moving forwards with her career.
It's more obvious in the movie Hannibal. He gets her shoes, a dress with a plunging neckline. He makes the guy who was harassing her eat his own brain, but because he "was messing with his woman". He forces a kiss on her after she says she'll never acknowledge his love for her. And it excites him.
With way the film was shot and the dialogue included in the script it just shocks me people were like "nah, this doesn't have to do with the male perception of women at all!!". I recently watched it for the first time and immediately picked up on it's themes. They are part of what makes the movie so unsettling.
I took a "Film in Literature" class and I learned a huge facet of horror/thriller films in general relates to femininity: themes of Puritanism, like virginity and the original sin, and the "evil" of femininity and how it contrasts to the idea of the righteous male protagonist being two primary examples. Think "Rosemary's Baby" and "The Exorcist," respectively. You could say that "Alien" is the antithesis of those.
Horror as a genre should be seen as being critical of the notion of toxic masculinity and misogyny, but unfortunately a large portion it is sold to promote the opposite of these ideas (see: slasher films) because it sells better to a mainstream audience. That said, there are many great pro-femininity horror films as well, it's just that they don't seem to have the same commercial success.
The Exorcist did focus on the idea that women talking about sex is something that the devil would want. I often think that some people are too quick to accuse movies of gender bias, but there is some truth in some of it, at least in the old movies.
@Chandller Burse No, of course not. I think that it is okay for women to talk about sex in the appropriate situation. Plus, I don't believe in the Devil so I don't think women are actually affected by him.
@chandllerburse737 That's my reading too. If anything, Rosemary's Baby is at least somewhat, if not thoroughly, anti-male, especially considering how we see Rosemary CONSTANTLY oppressed by all the men and many of the women in her life who relentlessly reinforce the patriarchal order; on this view Satanism doesn't represent a liberation from old-world sexual servitude, but a grotesque mirror image of it. The movie confronts the horrifying thought that there's no escaping the despair of female slavery. Seems fairly subversive to me (which is remarkable considering the director's well-documented feelings about women).
Incredible video! As someone from West Virginia, I think her being considered "white trash" really amplified your point. From personal experience people see women from West Virginia (especially ones with heavy accents) as uneducated hilljacks, and that would create a further degree of seperation. When my mother moved to california she actually had to unlearn her West Virginia accent because everyone said she sounded like clarice and that it made her sound unintelligent, which was especially a big deal since she worked in communications, often with men.
The dumb hillbilly stereotype is male in 90% of media, culture and personal stereotypes of people. I doubt that people see southern women being as more stupid than southern men.
I wouldn't say that womanhood is subtext in the film - it's, like, THE text. It's the crux of it all, from start to finish, top to bottom, womanhood and femininity are key throughout. I mean, they set it up at the very beginning, in the elevator. That sets the tone straight away. Love this movie. And you, too, Mert - sorry for not commenting for a while, I've been busy with school and am now catching up on your backlog of quality stuffs. I love how your channel has grown! I hope you're proud of yourself - you're doing a good damn job, friend.
Maybe its me reading too much into it but I always felt that Jack wanted Clarice because she was honest but naive. Definitely smart but not willing to sacrifice her ideals. When questioning her grades I thought that was a test, to see if she was willing to stand up for herself even when it makes her seem weaker. Hannibal was intelligent but hubris, he would've likely ignored a seasoned agent, and judging from the guy agents they would've tried much harder to prove themselves. With Hannibal mentally crewing them out for daring to challenge him. Maybe its just me but Clarice hit that middle ground. Smart enough to get the job done but innocence enough that Hannibal would take the bait as he loves toying with people. Something a behavioral expert would do and Jack is showcased to push limits to get results.
I think this is a really good explanation: Clarice would be like a dark horse, humble and easily underestimated. It's a shame that Clarice was kind of sacrificed in that way (sacrificial lamb) - her innocence being something he'll chew up and spit out - but definitely
I also think it's pretty overt for a 90s/00s movie that Cl is gay. which might also be why she was chosen. she's surrounded by young men but hasn't married anyone or been labled as getting an mrs degree. so the choice might be based on the fact that Hannibal is also pretty gay coded. She's also a woman with a lot of experience with working in the male world, and the gendered parts of the case would really point someone like jack to ask, "what is the point of murdering a women if not sex?" and a woman in a male field would have a unique take. i never thought jack had any intrest in Cl sexually. what's interesting to me is that her "roommate" was never contacted or involved as another woman in the FBI. (raising the question of if her race would be a hinderance in jack's mind.) edit: i also think there's some trans allegories being made between bill and Cl. she wants to be like the men in her life. do male things. work in a male job. Bill presents as a man but works in a feminine job, sewing. wants to be like the women in their life. Cl has jack. bill has lecter.
Interesting...I took Clarice's commitment to truthfulness as the opposite of naivety. A lot of women with experience in career tracks that have "power + responsibility" aspects/roles, esp traditionally male-dominated fields, who are on the threshold of going from junior to middle/senior roles, get the paradoxical feeling of "being puppeteered" by mentors or people in leadership roles, without knowing why or having access to the goals + thinking behind these higher-ups' decisions, & the women I've discussed this stuff with struggle with even putting a finger on exactly why they feel puppeteered, & doubt themselves, & doubt their perceptions. It's a really intangible feeling with extremely concrete effects that fuels Imposter Syndrome & makes it significantly more challenging while adding unnecessary emotional/psychological labour when integrating women, BIPOC, LGBTQ+, & working class people into organizations, disciplines, & roles that were traditionally withheld from these groups.
I liked her. While the star og themovie is lector. And it might be because she was ignored and overlooked but competent and an outsider. But i though she waschosen because interesting enough to maybe get his interest but strong too. Crawfoedmust have seen her as prettycompetent even notbeing the best person. Even with ulrätirior motives. I thought she was done well. Amd in that movie hanibalis anawful god so , she gets what she wants, but is also earning " gods" respect. And crawford. Has seen will, going , warning isnt disrespecful here. I thoughtinteresting, she is strong but vunerable and dealing with forces she cant control, but manage. Ok the hanibal being the star really and the buffalo bill, i think good balance. Like she was doing a loosing game above her paygrade and did ok?! Not a woman here but isnt that anotbad commentary what shit women can deal regarding expectations . And its a horror movie?! I think she works as strong but tragic human character that doesnt loose really,
@@hannahep5148 I've heard some people say the way she's talking to her roommate, they way she looks at her (they look at each other) makes it clear she's gay. I'm not sure that's supposed to be part of the movie though, that might just be Jodie Foster.
Silence of the lambs is one of the movies that is closest to the source material I've ever seen! One of my favorite film facts is the reason there are so many shots where people are staring at the camera is to make everyone feel like Clarence and it is impactful I don't know how anyone thinks that Silence of the Lambs isn't about being a woman in a hostile male dominated field is wild
I distinctly remember when I watched this movie, alone in my bedroom around 6pm so the room wouldn't be too dark, and the thing I remember most clearly is how nauseous the movie made me feel. At the time I just figured it was the fact that I'm not used to thriller films but now I honestly think how silence of the lambs reflects my own experiences with womanhood and male dominated fields amplified the intensity for me. Incredible. Also a great video!
I think another interesting aspect of the movie is the focus on the state senator's daughter having to be kidnapped in order for investigation unit to prioritize looking for buffalo bill. Might be looking too into it but interesting to think about.
The primary thing that makes me so upset whenever the defense that "the writer/director of the movie didn't intend for Bill to be trans" is genuinely used, is that the main list of trans characters in film on Wikipedia has Bill listed as a historical trans character. (no matter how many times I've sent editorial notes recommending that it's a bad addition, along with many other characters on the list but that's another rant) there comes a point that if the general public sees something as representative of a public group, even if the author didn't intend it, that there is consequences. That list is formed from popular public feed back, so the majority of voices are in favor of bill being trans representing. Even with wikipedias natural biases and personal interference, it's remained the same for decades in that decision. The films depiction of a people group has had an impact on the major cultural view of those people, as art is designed to do. An impact that has hurt and is still greatly hurting a lot of lives. This single film is if course not responsible for the entire anti trans movement or politics, but what it has done is created a concept for many to latch onto about what living as trans is like, one many at least subconsciously hold for things they don't understand, and this reinforces that. That being trauma and disgust being defining to being trans. There's a belief a lot of people, both those with Ill intent and good intent, that being trans is defined by one's self hate, body disgust, and trauma. I see it a lot when non trans people start defending trans rights by only pointing to things like suicide rates and self harm, and by those attacking trans people by again pointing to suicide rates and self harm, now claiming "being transed caused this." This I feel ties into the idea that by being trans there is something broken or wrong with you, that it needs to be fixed or taken out of you. This idea is so prelevent in main culture that even many trans people, formerly myself included, believe this about themselves, and that they're wrong and need to be made right in the world. I genuinely hate this belief. The way it defines all trans people by their unhappiness, struggles and death. This applies to even more than trans people infact, as also an immigrant I'm constantly reminding that the way people in my new country view life in my home is entirely based on it's violence, suffering, and pain. (especially ones they cause via colonialism but still frame as "our problems" again another rant) and I will say, it's good to acknowledge the problems, and it's good to fix those problems. But people are not problems, people are living humans and should never be described as a thing. I hate the general depiction of trans, immigrant, honestly most of not all suppressed people because it's the most dehumanizing shit I've ever seen. People, and especially writers and general workers in media want to use entire groups of people as props or dressing, taking people and turning them into things. And again I get it, it's practically impossible to show the fullness of a human being in just character, the common job of writers is honestly turning people into things. But what I do wish and know people can do is stop saying these things are representation, stop saying it's "a look into the trans condition" or whatever they're putting on reviews. And this isn't meant to just apply to writers, as said they can't control the audience much, but more over this is dedicated to the public view. The way the major public is willing to accept a depiction as an all encompassing reality for the incredibly complicated state of being human is both as old as stories, and still terrifying. I'm glad to see more people leave that way of thinking, but still not enough are willing to even accept the reality of it's existence. To try bringing this back to the original topic, the main pain I have with the view of Bill as trans, is they're a character with no joy, love, or acknowledging of self. (There's probably better words to describe this but English is not native to me please be patient) At least to me and those I've talked to, one of the primary aspects of being trans is self acceptance and love. Again this is left out of the narrative many make about being trans, but it's a genuine aspect of our lives. We are painfully aware of our bodies, and we build on ourselves to both better our own body, and our love for that body. There's a lot of self care and healing one has to make as trans, you have to relearn your relationship with how you live, how you view yourself. This is where I think so many people miss it, because when they hear the concept of someone changing their body because it doesn't fit or (don't know the word that best fits but the idea of not being proper or correct to the setting it's in, like a ground bird being forced into a tree) there's this idea that it must be from self hate, or loathing. That they want to mask over and hide their body, that they want it hurt or destroyed. So the audience with this view of trans people then projects it onto a character like Bill. Bill takes the skin of others and uses it to hide their own, in that state they experience "joy." Except by the way the scene is done not at all. The scenes are done to provoke disgust, discomfort and hate, and nothing is truly about Bill, but the concept. The concept bill is designed to be, and as a result the audience then takes as describing the concept of being trans. And it's not even close to the experience of trans joy, the point of transition is so that in your own body, your own skin, you feel joy, love, self care etc. There is never a need or point to taking that of someone else because you are you, and it's been about loving that, and bettering that. Transition is an experience of self love, also said you come to accept yourself and better yourself, because ultimately you're developing and growing, changing during the process because that is life, and you have to accept that. And unfortunately those looking in won't accept an idea that goes against their narrative of what it's really like, even in the face of what trans people are experiencing. Also side note just want to make clear this is attacking/targeting no one, not the writer's or directors, and definitely not you or your video. It's purely my own reaction to the film, and I generally like to assume the best intentions on the behalf of the creators. The primary goal was to acknowledge how many non trans people have these incorrect ideas that shape their view of trans folks, and how films like tsotl, even accidentally, support these beliefs both openly and subtly. There's a real push right now across multiple countries but especially the north and west to silence/destroy trans folks and communities so I do thank anyone creating content that stands to talk about trans folks in a respectful and humanizing way, and against those causing harm. It does go a long way to help more people at least acknowledge what's happening. Again thank you for this piece , and take care
The fact is that some male trans identifying people (trans women) are, indeed, like buffalo bill. Famously chris chan even did the goodbye horses dance. Before he raped his mother. Theres many more autogynephiles who would like to wear our skin too. Just because it makes you all look bad doesnt mean its not true.
@@sometimesawful it's just that people like you who don't even know anything about us like to lie and exaggerate how much it actually happens. (Also, I'm not going to bother replying to you, because the tin foil hat is enough of an indicator). (Also, if you actually cared to properly research anything, you'd realise that autogynophilia doesn't exist).
@@sometimesawful you've proven my point, you've taken media against the words of the creators and used it to hurt a people group. And no, with all the trans people I've worked with and that have worked with me none of them would "want to wear your skin." That's not a thing people want to do. And that's not an idea you'd have ever had if it wasn't for the movie unfortunately. Media isn't reality,but you sure let it control what you view reality as
@@jamwrightiam so you won't address autogynephilia. You can pretend there's no scary men out there who claim to be women but it's just the way it is. In reality. I know you realize it harms how you're accepted but you need to take that up with the chris chans, the harvey marcelins, the karen whites. Im not disagreeing with the creators of this movie or the actor, the character of buffalo bill was not accepted as a transsexual by therapists. Back then, though, you had to meet certain requirements. Now you only have to declare your womanhood and it's immediately accepted as gospel. So its a safety issue for women.
In the books hannibal absolutely kills people because they were rude, miggs was killed for the act of being rude. Also in the books clarice ends up marrying lector. I totally missed precious being a lamb allegory!!
I’d be super curious to hear your opinion on Psycho! The exploration of female sexuality, independence, and also the exploitation of DID and Norman’s experience with his mother. This video was excellent
I think how a lot of people see Hannibal really tells us how low the bar is for men. "Yeah, he's a cannibal who tortures people... but he treats Clarice kinda okay, so he's awesome." *The bar is so low, it's a tavern in Hades.*
Buffalo Bill, as a nonbinary person, weirds me out a lot. I wouldn’t be upset to see a transgender character that just so happened to be a killer, but their motives being tied to their gender identity, their stereotypical manner, and the fact that they’re the ONLY trans character deeply disappoints me.
Yeah, but it's a general rule of thumb that if you include an villain that is of a certain identity, you should probably include an additional character of that identity that is good to show that that identity isn't bad.
@@mechinate theres around 1.2 Million non binary ppl in the US alone Literally one non transphobic character who brings the slightest nuance to this transphobic garbage fire would have been enough
The section on author intent reminded me of how appalled the writer was at how some people were idolising Hannibal Lector, and this affected how he wrote the sequel. Also, I'd love to see your take on the game Rule of Rose, I think there's alot of potential to discuss gender and power dynamics in it and I've liked what you've had to say about it here.
I actually have so many notes on Rule of Rose ready! There's loads about the politics of growing up as a young woman in that video that I enjoy. Tons of imagery. All the characters (to me) are like facets of one psyche. I love that the school is so weirdly isolated beyond all geographic reaches as well. Ah, we'll get there :D
@@MertKayKay I think the proper medical name is Hibristophilia? Not sure if people who have that would be into fictional killers as well as real ones, though.
I think this is one of those movies where the message and themes are not hammered in and poorly written, and I actually got them- because I'm not always the sharpest tool in the shed 😅 I think this movie does a great job SHOWING you Clarice's struggle in a male-dominated workplace, and not just telling you like any other film would. Even as a man, I understood her plight and empathize with her. Otherwise, this is a great movie, and this is a great video, Mert 😁
I think the idea of casual depravity is something very prevalent in SotL. Lector is casually cruel, cold, and is not to be trusted, even in spite of his "competence" as a psychologist and fellow murderer. He views the entire world of living people as meat for his own appreciation and consumption. Even at his most "empathetic" toward Clarice, he never actually "likes" her for more than the small amusement she continues to bring him, because she's just a stimulant for his pleasure. The true horror of Lector is the illusion of competence, composure, and apathy he tries to push onto others to create terror and power for himself. I think about how unhinged it is to casually murder your deranged cell-mate for slighting someone you met for only a brief moment, but it all contributed to Lector building this narrative around himself that simply isn't true. I think Buffalo Bill is suppose to parallel this in many ways while interacting with characters like Lector indirectly. Like Lector, Bill casually uses women to accomplish nothing more than a personal agenda, and Lector can't help but prick at Bill from afar by sticking a woman on him that believe's he could only ever *want* to be a woman. He profiled Bill that way so Clarice would look down on him, which I think just serves to highlights Lector's competence as a manipulator again. I watched a video once analyzing the cinematography of Lector and Clarice's first conversation and how the camera angle changes to subliminally suggest how the power dynamic changes between the two of them. Very captivating stuff, no doubt an extremely well-done film.
In the book it’s stated that Clarice did want to work explicitly under Crawford as she admired his intelligence and Crawford picked her for her naivety because he thought it would appeal to Lecter and get him to help with the case
It’s honestly rare to hear a cis British woman talking about silence of the lambs in a way that ISN’T transphobic. This analysis absolutely rocks ❤️❤️ instant subscriber gained 😘
@@emma_luce_0623 cis is merely a relevant adjective to the conversation at hand. if we are having a conversation about hair color i will specify virgin vs chemically processed, blonde vs brunette, or natural vs fashion color.
What I find hillarious is that when people talk about "strong female characters" they often give examples exactly of the opposite, of what the male gaze sees as a strong female: - Silence of the Lambs = Claire acts and talks the way she does because its the only way she will get the people who hold power (men) to give her what she needs - Alien: Ripley's direct orders not to bring in the infested crewmate is ignored - Metroid: Samus' gender identity becomes irrelevant in the suit. The point is not that shes a girl who kicks ass, but that her womanhood is insignificant until the post credits. Terminator: Sarah's importance is only that of the mother of the Hero, not as a hero herself. Without this aspect of her, her life is meaningless to both the hero and the villain It seems like the concept of womanhood in media existed back then only in the way men can understand it, if that makes sense
Thats some massive bs you wrote lol. Ripleys orders may have been ignored, but she still kicks ass. The trope of "Main character warns people about danger and they dont listen to him/her" is old as time. Your understanding that a strong character is unfailable and have complete autority and control is WRONG. I can list you male protagonist in same/similar situations. Sarah Connor - she wanst even a mother yet in the first movie you muppet lol. She was one of the 3 MAIN CHARACTERS. And the whole plot was around her. In the second movie we see her grow as warrior and protector of her child. Moma bear if you will. Did you forget that scene in the end where she blasts the main bad guy with a shoutgun? Or where she invades some dudes house coz to kill him and destroy the chip from the first movie? TO STOP THE APOCALYPSE! Jonh Connor is basically a mcguffin in the movies. You can replace him with a flashdrive - the stary stays the same. He is not a real character. We never see him fight or overcome stuff. He is there to be important. He is NOT THE HERO OF THE STORY.
Ripley - the whole “smart person or scientist trying to warn people but got ignored and led to disaster” is such a common trope in any disaster movies regardless of gender. Plus, people didn’t disobey her because she’s a woman. They disobeyed her because they were too emotional to let Kane die on a deserted planet and saw her practical suggestion as too heartless not to rescue Kane. Also, Kane got in the ship anyway because an android opened the door against her command for his own ulterior motive (bringing back an alien lifeform). Other than that she’s badass and became strong all the way through both to protect herself and those she loves. Ripley is one of the first “final girls” in cinematic history. Sarah Connor - Sarah’s role was just a mother of a hero…only in the first half of the first movie. She was just a naive waitress victim who was confused about why a muscular robot from a future tried to kill her until the second half when Kyle was killed and she had to be the one who solve the problem for herself. Since then her character development went through the roof. She’s actually the protagonist of the second movie. She became cynical, paranoid and extremely violent warrior to the point that she almost became a psychopath killer trying to kill Dyson thanks to her obsession, almost becoming a terminator like Arnold in the first movie. Then she realized her flaws and by seeing the relationship between Arnold and John Connor developed, she became more open-hearted and realized Arnold’s humanity by the end of the story. John Connor might be the “chosen one” but the story truly focuses on Sarah. She was even the one who gave the ending speech in the end of second movie.
God, I hate the whole obession with "strong female characters" and "It's a form of womanhood men can understand" is such a succinct way of explaining why. Great points all around. Sorry about the condescending comments your getting, looks like you struck a nerve.
@@silverstorm3729 He or she gave good examples of strong female characters, ngl Although we probably couldn’t have cared less about rather Samus is a female or a male as long as the devs get it right
I've only read the book and not watched the film, but it never once crossed my mind that BIlly was a transsexual. I can see why people can choose to come to that conclusion, but Harris included elements to distant people from that conclusion: The statement that trans people are rarely violent, the inclusion of Billy's backstory eluding to sexism/misogyny and the fact Billy "failed the trans test". To me, this all impled that Billy was not a misunderstood transwoman, but a violent, misogynyistic man that veiwed women as subhuman, so much to the point that wanted to wear them as clothes. His female skin-suit was derived from hatred and trauma, not gender dyphoria. This book is clearly fixated on how women are treated, and this is highlighted within Billy's treatment as women as no more than a costume. I think this parallel is also made when Lecter escapes by stealing the face of a police officer - he does this for his own selfish reasons too. Perhaps the film shows a different perspective, but to me, Billy was always a violent misogynist and nothing more. I think if people choose to take the perspective that Billy was a mistreated transwoman forced to murder women to satisfy his gender dysphoria, then that ironically plays into the book's theme of men's goals and wants being prioritised over women's suffering.
44:12 "Billy embodies the negative stereotypes of trans people-big hulking heavy-jawed men with deep scary voices who throw on a dress simply to do harm to cisgendered women-and feeds back into those stereotypes in turn. It's simply a bad representation." Oof, yeah, when you put it that way, it feels pretty obvious now. I haven't seen this film in quite a long time, and I didn't watch it with the same understanding of gender I have today, so I don't think I really engaged with the implications very much at the time. I think you hit the nail on the head. Not to say that trans women need to pass or be especially feminine to be valid, but I agree, the character is in many ways a stereotype made into a serial killer. Not a great look. By the way, thanks for including closed captions in your videos. I appreciate the extra work you put in to presumably converting your scripts into captions. 51:38 Also thanks for doing the work of making the internet less infuriating to use lol. I agree with your metaphor regarding the communication of author intent as well, I've never thought of it that way.
Aww thank you Daimyo! I appreciate that you always give me these meaty comments to read. No worries on the closed captions either, they're very relaxing to do (except when I go off script and I have to manually retype what I said!)
@@MertKayKay Thanks, I'm glad to hear you appreciate them, because I enjoy writing them. Your content is very engaging, and in my opinion, encourages analysis from a new perspective. So I love to contribute whatever I can to the discussion. I hope you enjoy the rest of your day.
This is such a great in depth analysis of the film, it is one of my favorite films of all time and every time I watch it, I discover something different about it. This is true horror, the kind of horror where the villains are real and capable of real life evil acts. I think that Harris's books really changed the thinking about psychological horror, how scary the mind can truly be when it is not on your side.
Horror has so many forms. It can be scary, it can be fascinating, it can be disturbing, it can be confusing and at times... beautiful. This is what makes horror so great imo
Wait, Silence of the Lambs has FeMiNiSt themes!? Next you're gunna say that Fury Road is actually a feminist coded film?! Some people really try their hardest to ignore anything they don't like lmao
You always do a fantastic job of breaking things down and treating difficult topics with the respect they deserve. It makes your reviews way better to watch than someone just breaking down plot points. Also, I HIGHLY relate to bad UX right now. Just spent over 24 hours trying to get in contact with PS support...
"White trash" is considered more offensive now than it used to be. Idk some poor white people call themselves this as a joke or to reclaim it, but the problem is the racist implication as well as it being a classist term. (It means poor and classless - less dignified than normally expected of white people, is the implication.) West Virginia was originally economically centered on coal mining. Now many of the mining towns are ghost towns, and it's among the poorest states. Just some more US cultural background. Idk I like when foreign people tell me details about their countries. :3
Gein was making a skin suit from womens' bodies, but it's likely that he wanted to "become" his mother after her death as opposed to being trans. Maybe Harris and the filmmakers just avoided the same kind of mommy obsession because it'd come off as a rip-off of Psycho.
I read the book before I watched the movie and I think that's why I never looked at Buffalo Bill as anything more than a guy who was a complete psychopath, who had a twisted fantasy of somehow ascending from his real life into someone else completely once he put on the skin suit....book went into a lot of detail about how he was absolutely not transsexual. I wish the movie could've got that point across in a more clear concise way.
I really appreciated this video, especially the amount of nuance you introduced the main theme with along with the transgender topic. I was really worried at the start of this video, but I am so glad that even as an ally you recognize the problem with the character and how it was represented. I was especially impressed that you pointed out how harmful these representations can be because people then use them as examples to paint transgenders as dangerous people. A lot of allies I know are often too quick to shrug it off as "just fictional"/"just one's interpretation" (as you excellently put it) or take a work's word for it when they attempt to brush over all the bad implications. So overall, this was just really well done, and it felt like you really knew your stuff throughout the video. As a writer, I was also glad you mentioned on difficult this can be at times (I'm learning to loosen up about this in some areas and do my best to help other writers realize "you can't win them all"), but that we can still hold ourselves to some standards concerning serious topics and need to consider how things come across. If one's showcase supports the viewpoint of bigots, then it isn't a good representation and could be potentially dangerous, and again, I am so glad you pointed this out. Just 10/10 dealing with this topic. The movie's treatment of it personally makes me so uncomfortable as someone who is transgender myself that this film has sat on my movie blacklist for ages, and I don't plan to remove it anytime soon despite the interesting themes. So I'm glad I was able to hear about them still through your video and in such a well-explained and compassionate manner. Your takes on horror games are so refreshing, and it seems your takes on horror movies are much the same. We have a similar taste in horror and how we prefer these things to be written, so it was nice to hear you discuss this film, and if you ever want to discuss more horror movies in the future, I'll be looking forward to it!
Am personally from West Virginia and I can genuinely say that because of the way people from my state are viewed, it's often almost an automatic reaction to suppress my accent when speaking to those from out of state. It's not uncommon for people from elsewhere to treat us as outright unintelligent or "just acting smart to impress people" just because of an accent, even a mild one. It's even worse if you happen to be from a region of the state with a much heavier accent, to the point where even other West Virginians make jabs at those from other regions based on the prominence of their accents.
LOVED your break down. I actually didn't see this movie until college of all times cuz I was always a bit afraid of how gory it supposedly was. Ended up reading the book then watching the movie in a really interesting media literacy kind of class I was in. It was fascinating to see what subtle differences there are from the book to the movie and then even further to the NBC show (which i LOVE btw XD) and while I like the movie very much, I always got caught on how different Hopkins' performance was to the way Lecter is in the book and from there how Mikkelsen's performance brought it back. But anyway back on subject XD while it would have been nice personally to see Clarice end up alone at the end, I do really appreciate that they at least had her hook up with the guy who actually treated her like a person as opposed to the object like the rest of the men in the film. He was also the most straight forward in his advances, he was honest in how he felt and didn't try to use any dirty tricks to get at her. It's something I didn't fully notice until you pointed how how he just straight up asked her out. It also says a lot about how we're conditioned to just deal with men treating us as sub-human that we can completely miss it when one does because we're just not used to it.
To be fair, I think our society tends to have a negative view of men who try to manipulate women. They are rarely ever presented positively in movies or talked about positively. Women manipulating men is more likely to be treated with a laugh because it is "gender flipped". I think part of the problem is that society expects men to ask out women on first dates. If women asked men out half the time A) I think women would find that it isn't as easy as they think and B) you'd probably find that women would act just as bad as men do now.
@@greywolf7577 Except it's only the most extreme, most violent acts of manipulation that society really frowns upon. Men are still encouraged to push back against a No. Men are still encouraged to be the SOLE moneymaker, leaving their partner entirely dependent on them so they cannot leave easily. Men are encouraged to channel pretty much any feeling into rage and violence... The list goes on and on and on. Yes men don't get taken seriously as victims as part of the idea that women are 'weaker' therefore it's either shameful for a man to be a victim or he's secretly into it as far as society goes. It's all still patriarchy. And no, women would not immediately all act like that. That's the same damn argument that was used by the people who wanted to keep being allowed to own other humans as slaves... "Well if we give them equal rights they'll treat us the way we abused them for centuries" is not a valid nor legitimate argument...it's fear mongering. The truth is if we were treated equally (and as such felt SAFE to ask men out, which we don't cuz we have NO idea which one is fine and which one will kill us) then overall EVERYONE would get better treatment cuz there wouldn't be a passed along, violently (yes i do mean actual violence) enforced sense of superiority from one group towards another...
@@StonedHunter Your comment reminded me of the Meme where a girl posted about how she told a boy no and he then ignored her and she wanted to know why he didn't try harder to get her to date him. I agree that there are some men who don't take no for an answer, but there are also some women who play hard to get and purposefully give mixed signals. Hopefully we get fewer of both of those types of people. If a man makes less money than his wife, many people in society, including often the wife herself, sees him as lazy or under achieving, whereas women aren't generally seen as under achieving if they make less than their husbands. Even at the beginning of relationships, I think you'd still find today that women are much less likely to date someone who makes less money than her, whereas men are much more willing to date women that make less money than him. Being a stay at home wife can be limiting, but given that she can get half of the family bank account and properties and sometimes alimony, it doesn't trap women as much as people might think. I disagree that men are encouraged to channel pretty much any feeling into rage and violence. If a man hits a woman, he is seen as an abuser. If a woman hits a man, people often ask what he did to deserve it. I've seen videos where a male and female actor will pretend to abuse each other in the street. When the man is physically pushing around the woman, other people rush in to stop it. When the woman is physically pushing around the man, people either ignore it or smirk at it. It is very rare to see a movie where a good male character hits a woman. It is far more common to see a movie where a woman slaps a man and it is presented as justified. Asking a man out is no more dangerous to a woman than a man asking a woman out is to a woman. I think people just see it as strange for a woman to ask out a man and so they treat it as dangerous when in reality it would probably be safer for women than the current set up because they'd get more choice in who they want to date. I do think there is a lot of sexism that teaches that women would never do some of the bad things that men do because women are seen as more pure than men are.
I think one of the points you made in the “author intent vs audience reaction” part of the video was really interesting. The idea that the need for/utility of interpretation is what takes art from good/unobjectionable to something more than that makes a lot of sense!
Reminder that in the not too distant past it was perfectly valid for a trans person to be denied gender affirming surgery on the grounds that the assessor/s considered they wouldn’t be attractive enough by mainstream gender standards.
Considering that the people who couldn’t “pass” would have a higher chance of suicide because a trans woman would become their own worst critic. I mean there are several infamous cases occurring from the silicone valley where they cited that issue as the reason of their suicide despite having bottom surgery top surgery but didn’t feel confident enough to speak with a cosmetic surgeon to meet their ideal of womanhood and just gave up. Contra Points had a video going over her own self criticisms and how close she got to the edge. Now we have the cosmetic tech for feminizing features and blocking puberty. I don’t think the doctors weren’t aware of suicidal thoughts and the lack/affordability/possibility of certain cosmetic surgeries.
It kinda sucks to imagine how maybe Bill and Clarice could have discovered they shared a sort of mutual misunderstanding in their lives had they met some years before the first book. This was one powerhouse of a movie and the actors/director were so goddamn on point that the tension on a first watch felt almost real. Bill was great being an even worse asshole in Shutter Island (Ted something, I forget the actors name but he's great) where he casually asks Leo what might happen if he went to bite his eye out of his head. Maybe the actor writes his own lines and people just put some of that into movies. Great vid! I damn near forgot about that uneasy microscope the movie put on the men/Clarice relations in the workplace! That shit is so uncomfortable it's painful.
Great video, I like your conclusion about how it is important for media to be somewhat open to interpretation to remain relevant and discussed over long periods of time, just as I also enjoy when you talk about UX.
Yas it's finally here👏🏻👏🏻 well worth the slog, bravo buddyo, very interesting listen while I work on my crochet piece Also, obligatory twitch reminder because Amazon keeps shouting at me for not using my twitch prime subscription
I think what the film was trying to say is that, Billy wasn't trans gender by virtue of the fact that it was more of a sexual thing than it was an identity thing. Thats why they distance themselves from that explicitly imo.
I'm so pumped for this video! This movie has always held a special spot in my heart! It without a doubt help drive me to study psychology! I can't wait to hear your perspective and insight on the very heavy and still impact full topics it covers! PS. Stay amazing 👏 💚
When I first watched this movie, I was like eleven or twelve and the transgender issues flew past me but I did notice the movie was feminist, with Clarice being a woman that had to face many challenges in her life and work, with people either belittling or lusting for her. Even Crawford, who people think has father relationship with her, I felt like he never took her that seriously. It felt was it was almost a game to him - she succeeds, good. we catch a serial killer; she fails, well what do you expect? Women, amirite?. I thought that it was weird that the serial killer that eats people was the one that treated her with most respect. However, I grew up a bit and had this idea that while most men lust for her body, Hannibal lusted for her mind. While most men were stripping her clothes in their minds, Hannibal was stripping from her most vulnerable memories and fears, to the point of her crying. I was happy for Clarice when she proved herself by catching Bill and graduating. I think more modern movies could learn making female heroines like her. Great vid, cheers!
Realizing that I've been watching this movie for 30 years, which feels impossible. I noticed this early on when I found your channel, but in addition to preferring to watch things in order, I wanted to make sure I didnt totally hate your opinions before hearing your take on a movie I'm weirdly invested in lol. but I'm glad to have watched this far, and did really enjoy this video. I like your calling attention to the fact that Bill doesn't seem like a person who even *could* exist. It's so far away from the creation of this work, I forgot just how many existing serial killers were katamaried together to make them. I hadn't heard the women as totems thing before, but that feels more directly/intentionally linked to ideas in Red Dragon.
Thanks Croc! I've enjoyed watching your comments slowly filter in along the timeline of my videos, and I'm really happy that you stuck around to see this one too. I completely understand, this is a brilliant movie - we have to do it justice!
I've only watched the film, however watching the film I never thought of Buffalo Bill as Trans. He struck me more as an unseen individual wanting to be seen like women are. He's the opposite to Clarice, she is surrounded by the male gaze, Jamie is mostly unnoticed, living in a run down house by the train tracks, mostly forgotten about when requestioning the first victim's mum. He seems to be unsure how to act as a woman too, least I got that impression when he imitates the girl's shriek in terror, its like its a detached understanding of how she feels, more a "if I scream/flail about that'll be more feminine" kind of thing. I never got the impression Trans people need to practise how to be the gender they feel, they just are. People that seem to try imitate poorly grossly misunderstand what it is to be the gender. Just looked like a case of "grass is greener on the other side" to me. So in that sense I agree with you on women represented as a totem, if he dons the skin perhaps he'll be loved/seen for the first time in his life?
I actually just finished watching the TV show a few months ago, and it was really good in my opinion. I was very put off from watching it due to the fandom back in ye olde Tumblr days, but I'm really glad I finally gave it a chance.
LOVE Silence of the Lambs! And the other books (but not movies). Related to your sponsor bit though: I missed an online test one weekend in college because I was reading “The Passage,” and the professor did, in fact, understand, because she recommended the book. 😂
why the hell does this only have 4,000 ish likes (not even that!)??? your explanation is brilliant, your points are succinct and excellent, your analysis is as amazing as always, good god we need to get you to a million
For context on the comment: I am an author and I have nonbinary family members, so I do understand all sides of the argument. I think that Buffalo Bill was an unfortunate biproduct of people hating trans folks. See, the movie is about the dynamics between men and women and how that impacts women. But Buffalo Bill does not fit into either category. I believe their purpose was to transcend the gender identities to prove that evil can exist in any form and grey area. I also suspect that one of the people working on the movie, maybe producer or such, strong armed the author into including more explicit dialogue surrounding Bill so it was less ambiguous
I know what you mean! The dialogue around Bill is a lot less naturally sewn into the script than anything else. When Clarice blurts out that "transsexuals are very passive" for example, it was a very heavy-handed way of inserting that dialogue. There are a few lines from Hannibal too that seem especially plastered in
FUNFACT, buffalo bill actor is the same dude who plays Leland Stottlemeyer in one of the best shows ever made called Monk. I recommend that show and he’s a good actor.
your raid shadow legends ad is the only sponsored ad on youtube that made me actually kinda wanna play raid shadow legends and as a film nerd, hannibal series lover, and silence of the lambs obsessor, i cant believe RSL is actually what i commented about
I love this film and your analysis is spot on. As a trans/NB writer myself, Bill has always felt incredibly awkward in terms of their portrayal in this movie. I feel making them trans isn't the issue, so much as pointing at their trans identity as being the motive for their crimes. I'm all for trans rep with both good and evil characters, and anything in between, but their identity shouldn't be the reason for their bad behavior. Trans people are people, and can have the same motives as any other gendered or non-gendered person. Anyway, awesome stuff as always. 👍
Another great video! Hannibals house is on Charles Street here in Baltimore, about 5 minutes away from where I grew up. The crazy thing is, I've been around that area so much that I don't even think about it anymore.
I always loved this movie, but that was always more for the classy, yet vulgar deteurogonist, Dr. Lecter. Always found his character completely fascinating. To show cannibalism in such a classy way was also definitely new, and also made me fascinated with the ethics of it (in my country, consensual cannibalism is actually legal, which I found very interesting). Thanks for your perspective on one of my favourite movies :D
Horror is cultural commentary, with the villains often manifesting cultural fears and tensions. So yeah. It’s about women, and even if it wasn’t originally intended to be (which it probably was), it is now, given our societal context. Thanks for the video essay!
How is a transgender caricature when it's stated multiple times in the movie that no, Billy is not trans. Lecter is insane, but he is a GOOD psychology expert and he is very adamant about it: Buffalo Bill is noy transgender. He is many things but not trans.
Yeah the idea he's an unreliable source of info is off to me, crawford and starling explicitly seek him out so as to get a psychological profile of BB. He read starling like a book immediately upon meeting her in that first meeting (the whole "youre from west virginia, you try to hide your accent, all you wanted growing up was to get as far away from there as you can") and sees her desire to save people and work in the FBI as a by-product and result of her PTSD over her father's death and her inability to save the lambs. That first meeting where he says all that stuff about her west virginia roots, she says "you see a lot doctor" and is clearly troubled by his dredging up of that buried stuff. So everything we see in the movie points to him knowing people extremely well and the things he's saying being accurate.
"Slay, I'll listen to that, Mert!" - me just now seeing this in my subs. (From a former woman who saw this when I was, I want to say 8? 9? and who is subsequently a huge fan of the artistic merits of cannibalism, this one is gonna do a number on me, no question. Will report back with more nuanced and cohesive thoughts lol)
Hi Mert, just wanted to say that, as a trans woman, I appreciate you making a decent point of view on this and showing a lot of respect. I can only echo others' view here that I have no problem with a trans character being a killer, but making them almost a characature is offensive and then to claim it was on accident feels pretty lame
You know that screensaver everyone watches to see when it hits the corner of the screen? Same feeling when it comes to the reflection of ??? lining up just right to make it look like you have glowing green eyes
I always saw bill's character as being a chaotic representation of an obsessive killer first (probably due to said abusive childhood) and a confused fetishest second. I think the reason lecter says he isn't trans, is because his inner desire isn't to become a woman, it's to INHABIT a woman. He no longer wants to be himself at all, and kind of like the totem idea, he wants to steal the femininity of his victims, possibly because he simply was never able to express any form of femininity in his own childhood lest he be abused for it.
I know it its been a year, but I wanted to add that, if I remember correctly, Clarice met Crawford as the guy who like goes to college fairs and says this is why you should fbi or something like that. She wrote a letter to him as well I believe and he didn’t respond, but he kept an eye on her grades and how she was. She was a hard worker and left a good impression on the teachers were introduced to in the book. Bella was probabaly cut out for reasons of shortening the movie, the movie is kinda already out of order for pacing reasons. Introducing her would mean following through on her death which happens before Clarice goes after Bill’s 1st victim. Clarice only really starts seeing Crawford as a person ig? When she learns about his wife. Without the format of being in her head that reading provides, you can’t really see the difference in how she’s sees him idk how to describe it. Chilton does mention when Clarice comes to talk to lector about the case file that she needs to hurry bc he has A ticket to something, and Clarice says that at that moment she could see through him, and he knew she could. He is extremely lonely, adding to his aggravations when she rejects even his base advances Clarice and one of the bug nerds keep up throughout the case and go out at the end of the book. 👍 Sorry I haven’t read it in a little while, so take this w a grain of salt but yea :)
Lambs is a tour de force in critiquing "male gaze" concepts in cinema. One of the simplest tells is how Demme uses the actor's glance into the camera. Men stare directly at camera/Clarisse. The only woman who does this is the interview subject before Clarisse heads off to Bill's. That's pretty interesting to consider in the context of this analysis. The other women who talk to Clarisse use standard continuity editing eyelines. That's a start, but we're also set up, as the audience to identify with Clarisse. The opening shot of her running from the wood, we see her, the camera tracks over as she passes so we get close enough to feel/contact her, then it follows behind her putting the spectator in her position/point-of-view. It gets complicated beautifully at the end when we literally take Bill's point of view as Clarisse confronts him. Demme gives us most of a movie confronting and problematizing "the gaze" and the does a virtuoso rug pull by implicating the spectator as the maniac/purveyor of the gaze. Thanks for the video. It's one of the rare films to have a ton of acclaim but is still under appreciated.
Thank you for making this video. I had a hard time watching this movie because of the representation of Buffalo Bill, and it frustrated me to see that people defend this because ?? Clarice has that throwaway line about trans people being "docile" or whatever in a movie with no other queer characters, and so therefore it's okay?? It's nice to hear a nuanced perspective with trans people in mind, so thank you!
My dad is a regular type blue collar dude and this theme didn't at all go over his head lol. We've watched this movie together many times over the years. One time during that scene with the music box, he said with some awe, "only a woman would think to look there"
I agree that the way they presented Buffalo Bill very clearly pointed to them being trans, in a very harmful way. However, I can also see how Lecter could interpret them as "not really trans" without lying. Maybe Billy just hated themself and they weren't actually experiencing dysmorphia just extreme self hatred and they hit upon the idea of erasing their identity and overwriting it with femininity, which represented power and freedom. This would explain the tuck scene and the euphoria; they were fantasizing about being free of their whole identity (not just their current body) and at the same time enjoying a fetishization of femininity.
If you read the book you would see that theres a whole thing where crawford has to deal with a doctor specialized in trans surgery and whatnot to let him see the history of people rejected to find buffalo bill and the doctor doesnt want to because he knows it will encourage hatred towards trans people from the public but eventually crawford convinces him by saying if he wont show him he might be blamed for another woman dying. The book doesnt portray the doctor as a bad guy but as someone defending a group of innocent but niche people who also happens to get in the way of the investigation because of this. If starling and lecter establishing that transexuals are passive and bill isnt one was just a copout the doctor would have been portrayed negatively. Also saying that its bad that they imply that you need a doctors approval to be trans is bad is just devoid of historical context. Even now you cant get any surgery or irreversable treatment for this unless you are diagnosed with gender dysphoria
Terrific video!!! Loved the dive into womanhood and the movie. Billy may have been a non-binary person, but that’s because presenting him as a run of the mill sadist wouldn’t have made a splash. Once Billy was othered, it brought a fresh (though false) narrative for a killer’s compulsion. If you look at his actions it becomes clear there’s more going on than Billy becoming a self styled woman. He killed Mrs. Litman for purely due to opportunity and gain. He kept women in the well to make their skin more “roomy”, but also the delight of increasing their suffering and fear. There are other ways he could have dispatched them without keeping them. Bill also plays with Clarice like a cat with a mouse while wearing his night vision goggles. If this was all about getting skins to complete his tailoring project, he would have capped her immediately. As you mentioned, his transformation quest is a point of interest as to who he is, but isn’t the primary reason for his behavior itself.
Someone else in the comments section mentioned that the actor had talked about his choices in a Rolling Stones interview, where he says he studied both serial killers and hung out with transpeople (I THINK at least, it may just have been drag queens which isn't necessarily the same thing?) and decided in his mind that Bill was NOT trans or gay, but a homophobic misogynist who wanted to torture women because that is the overwhelmingly common thread between a LOT of serial killers. It's just that because the film deliberately decides to not show much of Bill's backstory, you just have to read it into his own decisions, and as Mert pointed out- Lecter's own interpretation colors everything we see.
@@isabelbelem9062 The article was unclear whether the actor had spent time in the company of trans women or if he had spent time in drag bars- he himself didn't seem to know, so it was hard to discern what he meant. That was the intention of what I wrote, to say that the article itself was ambiguous about what kind of bars he'd hung out at.
Awesome review, I have never considered the points that you brought up here. Also, I never thought that Bill was trans, but instead I had always thought that it was an excuse that he used to justify what he did, to himself.
The movie says that he isn't trans, but I think the real answer was that he was trans, but also a psychopath. The movie was just saying that most trans people are peaceful, but if someone was a psychopath, that could counteract the peaceful nature of trans people.
It Was quite interesting, thanks! In my opinion, Billy wasn't trans, because He saw becoming a woman as a solution to all his pshychological Problems. But It doesn't seem to me like his problems were, for example, dysphoria or other things wich tell as that person may be trans. Rather that He was a traumatized, violent person, who was looking for a way to cure his trauma and locked himself to a "surely I'll feel better when I'll become a woman"-solution. He killed not only women But also one of Lecters patients, If I remember it correctly, and this person was trans (or a drag queen, it wasn't specified). That's a very interesting moment in my opinion. Billy just wanted to take something He saw as his only cure and what was his by right. It's kinda Hard for me to deliver my thoughts since english isn't my native But I hope you'll be able to understand what i'm trying to say 🙃
You really deserves more subscribers. Really interesting video. It's nice that you talk about something else than videos games (even though a love them), it opens doors of subjets and I'm here for it.
When talking about the failings of the Bechtel test it’s important to remember that it’s original context was lesbian representation. the fact that there are so few women and that said women only talk about the men in the movie denies even speculation etc etc. so when in Sir Mix-A-Lots song when the two girls look at another girls but it could be said this is a perfect example of passing the Bechtel test….I’m only half joking
VVitch... Autopsy of Jane Doe... Last House on The Left... Halloween.... Teeth.... Rachels Body.... Penny Dreadful... Lady of the Lake.... Siren.... many horrors are focused around violence against women...
Ok I have to push back against the 39:05 take, especially when you consider Buffalo Bill and his whole "making things out of skin" shtick was inspired by Ed Gein, a real life killer who did do that kind of stuff. There's a LOT of serial killers who were gay and targeted boys and men because they hated themselves, their identity, who they were attracted to, and so they took out their frustrations and anger on them. BB is in a similar vein. We're directly told that he hates himself and his identity, no interpretation needed, Lector tells the audience that. Self hatred can be a huge driving factor in serial killers Lector further talks about how he wasnt born a criminal, but made one by years of violence and abuse, and that is EXTREMELY well documented how people with violent or abusive childhoods can easily grow into violent and/or abusive persons themselves. You go through some of the most notorious or highest body count serial killers in the US, time and time again you'll see these people had shitty childhoods that no doubt played a role in them becoming the monsters that they did. Also saying Lector is unreliable, I don't know if i agree with that. Everything he says is accurate (even if one makes the argument "its only considered accurate because we don't know Bill's POV", that doesn't mean Lector's unreliable, just that we the audience only get one look). He speaks cryptically but that's just his personality, he's got genius intellect so it would make sense to speak in that way. The only thing he really lies about is Louis Friend being his name, but Lector says repeatedly how much he can't stand Chilton, so it would make sense for him to lie about his identity to stick it to Chilton. After all, look what Crawford said on the way to the funeral home: "if I'd have sent you in there with an agenda, he would've sniffed it out immediately. He would've toyed with you, then turned to stone". And look what he does at the airport, he toys with the Senator and co with the fake name, where will it tickle you?, and "like your suit" stuff Furthermore Crawford and Starling explicitly seek him out so as to get a psychological profile of BB. He read Starling like a book immediately upon meeting her in that first meeting (the whole "youre from west virginia, you try to hide your accent, all you wanted growing up was to get as far away from there as you can") and sees her desire to save people and work in the FBI as a by-product and result of her PTSD over her father's death and her inability to save the lambs. That first meeting where he says all that stuff about her west virginia roots, she says "you see a lot doctor" and is clearly troubled by his dredging up of that buried stuff. So everything we see in the movie points to him knowing people extremely well and having genius intellect and the things he's saying being accurate.
It's funny how the actor, the director, and the writers all came out and took pains to say, 'this isn't a representation of the gay or trans community as a whole' and this commentator decided to ignore all of that (or determined somehow ??? that it wasn't in good faith) in favor of 'actually, it WAS about trans people all along, despite whatever the creators claim to the contrary'. Like...what??
There's a degree of irony in accusing me of taking work in bad faith in the same breath as taking my work in bad faith My argument wasn't "this is secretly about trans people and the author is wrong", my argument is "you can't ignore cultural contexts when writing your work, even if you want to, and everything you is influenced by (and influences) a wider context"
@@MertKayKay Im not accusing you of taking it in bad faith, I just disagreed with two points: that a BB type person could not exist (he's fictional, of course he's not realistic, but you know what I mean), and that Hannibal Lector is an unreliable narrator/source of information. I disagreed with BB being "someone who couldnt exist based upon the parameters set by Bill" because the movie states how he was turned into a monster by years of abuse and violence, which can be seen in real life serial killer's backgrounds commonly. And that he hates his own identity, which is something also that serial killers often had going on, in particular gay male killers because they hated themselves for being gay and hated that that's who they were. Obviously an exact carbon copy of BB with his exact problems and history might not exist in the world, but there's a lot of aspects of his character's personality, but people with violent and abusive childhoods turning into killers, and people who hate their identities turning into killers have and do exist. And then I disagreed with Hannibal being an unreliable narrator because everything in the movie, from people directly saying so, to the things he says and people's reactions to them, to seeing others with his comments in mind, points to him being an unparalleled genius when it comes to dissecting and analyzing other people. Crawford and Starling go to him explicitly to get a psychological profile of BB. IMO they wouldn't do that if Lector wasn't amazing at reading people and knowing how people worked.
@@MertKayKay I think 'you can't just remove cultural context' loses some steam as an argument when the ENTIRE crux of the 'let us regard Bill as trans' thought experiment requires a) a contemporary understanding of transgenderism that did not exist in 1991, and b) that we purposefully disregard the actor and everyone else who said, 'this character isn't supposed to be a representation of the trans community', even as part of the script itself in case people didn't watch the cast interviews. Like, when we're discussing a 30+ year old property and the fictional characters in it by using terminology and concepts that only entered into the public lexicon in the past decade, cultural context has already been set to the side. Which, I don't think that cultural context is so precious that you can't sometimes do that for the sake of discussion, you know? but the conclusions being drawn should at least make sense on a chronological level instead of like...'if you think about a concept that was only gradually getting around 20 years later, and assume the writers knew about that then, then this scene hits comPLETELY different' ex: Bill's gender euphoria. It makes more sense to me that the conclusions being drawn about trans identity were meant to be a continuation of the theme on 'feminine gaze horror' that we see throughout the film elsewhere, but ofc they couldn't have known what 2024 takes on gender identity would have been. No piece of media lives in a timeless bubble. anyways hopefully some of that is coherent, it's a 2am thought.
Don’t you think that’s why Crawford picks Clarice for the “errand” of interviewing Lecter? Because Chiltern is more likely to grant access to a hot young FBI student he deludely assumes might sleep with him? I don’t know if Crawford is infantilising Clarice per se: in a way what she’s sent to do *is* an errand, at least as far as she can know without giving the game away. There’s an amusing irony in that Chiltern says that Crawford sent Clarice as a kind of honey trap, which says everything about Chiltern and why he falls into it. Also, you say that Lecter helps Clarice after Miggs is disrespectful to her possibly as an act of affection because Miggs has probably been disrespectful many times and Lecter doesn’t go around killing everyone who is disrespectful. Only Lecter does kill Miggs: he convinces him to swallow his own tongue and choke to death. And killing people who are disrespectful is Lecter’s main schtick. In the book he calls them ‘free range rude’.
This is one of my favorite movies…and I always felt this is one of the movies that correctly portrays women in a predominantly male industry like law enforcement…each scene where she is oggled, intimidated, underestimated always brings me back when I was fresh out of college… With regards to Jack Crawford’s intention with Clarice, I always interpreted it him picking her because she is an attractive young woman that could for a bit probably have Hannibal lower his defenses and give her insight…he is almost like a father who may have inconsistently underestimated and overestimated her interchangeable, acting like a father and sometimes indifferent enough not to realize the danger he is putting her in…i think it was implicit that she is an exceptional person, maybe by a lot because if you are a woman you have to work harder than your counterparts for you to even be noticed by superiors and maybe that is what made Crawford notice…contrary, I never felt Crawford ever take advantage of her (thank god!)
This movie was really good & stuck with me as a kid (gave me a fear of man eating people for many years until I realised cannibals were not around every corner lol) & I enjoyed the plot. Never thought about the womanhood thing tho, kinda disappointed in myself for not noticing it until now. Oh well I am always happy to learn & re-think things. I always assumed that Lector was at some point Billie's psychiatrist, which is why people went to him as an "expert". It's still a great film even with its outdated believes & pseudo-psychological ideas on serial killers & transgendered people. Buffalo Bill was a creepy character & i sometimes I quote him (& Lector) to my brother to wierd him out cos hes never seen the film.
Ah-- that second rule of the bechdel test was incorrect! It's actually that the women must be named, not that they speak to each other; that rule is accounted for in rule three.
As a vg nerd im not very good at picking apart movies. I can’t say I knew the true text of this movie but I actually love the movie more now. Great video
So many good ideas, so much technical and thematic brilliance - from both the novel and film - but it utterly lets itself down with probably the most enduring transmisogynistic caricature in history. I knew that I was trans since I was about... eleven or twelve, maybe? I read this book (and saw the film) at about thirteen or fourteen, and it profoundly sickened me. No. Of course I interpreted Billy as trans - because I'm trans - but *I'm* not a monster, surely? *I'm* not a freak. I don't hurt and reduce women to totems. And I'm sure not a "man in a dress". But it made me... ashamed nontheless. When I was a young teenager, there was no positive media representation or support for me at all. So I... buried it away. I didn't want to be seen like that. I didn't want any *slight* resemblance to this monstrous character, that now I understand to be a harmful caricature, but sure didn't at the time. It was trans representation to a repressed, closeted trans woman, and it had a real impact. Nowadays the specter of a badly-written villain still hangs over the trans community, being the affirmation and darling of the terf groups who want to hurt us - because of one guy's ignorant fiction based off of discredited Blanchard theories. It's profoundly gross. It still hurts. A mess, really. Excellent video, and thank you for articulating these frustrations.
Sorry to nitpick, but you brought up the Bechdel test as part of your analysis of how Clarice is outnumbered in the movie and I wanted to make sure you knew that the Bechdel test falls so short because it isn't actually intended as a tool for feminist analysis. It was a joke from the comic strip "Dykes to Watch Out For" by Allison Bechdel about her three criteria to pretend if a movie had lesbian characters; although it holds up as a marker of just how outnumbered women are in media.
False! It is a tool strictly with the purpose of segmenting Sir Mix-a-Lot's music into "Bechdel Approved" and "Critical Bechdel Failure" but yes of course :D
I do say, when I originally clicked on this video I was anxious that there'd be some TERF stuff in it, but it was actually more calming to find that -- no, there wasn't, none of it at all. I've never watched Silence of the Lambs as of right now, but I do remember that my mom always had it on her bookshelf with the cover facing towards the front. The moth over the woman's lips always scared me shitless as a kid. I had asked her what it was about once and she just said that it was a horror book with death. I never even realized that Buffalo Bill came from SOTL, so whenever I heard people bring Billie up I just assumed they were, get this, from Texas Chainsaw Massacre. Yes, I confused Leatherface with Billie.
@MertKayKay We used to shout this exact thing at a teacher with an epic meathead in the same vein as 'the mole' bit from Austin Powers. Until one time when I got carried away and the rest of the lads had already shut up. I picked a lot of litter that week... Thanks for reminding me how monumentally ruh-tarded I was in school. Also the cool videos, guess they're alright too.
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get your bag, queen
I'm so so disappointed in you advertising this skinner box game that primarily profits off the vulnerability of children.
@@TheGrinningViking None of my audience are children. Most of my audience are 20-30 and they are well within their rights to make their own judgements on the content they consume
Moreover, I'm a strong advocate for proper parenting and supervision - games should not be able to have access to childrens' parents' credit cards at the click of a button
@@MertKayKay You aren't allowed to make a TH-cam account if you are under 18 according to the TOS.
Very few teenagers or preteens get their parents to make an account for them. They just put in an age that is old enough.
Enough of your audience is kids without enough experiencd to inoculate themselves against deliberately addictive skinner box tactics that it's a good deal for Raid.
@@TheGrinningViking I'm not responsible for any number of people who break TOS to watch content they're not supposed to be watching :)
These people also may or may not exist, and the existence of some kind of Schrodinger's demographic is no bearing for moral discussion. Half my audience could be made of pudding. Who knows? I can't prove they're not.
Actor Ted Levine did a lot of research for the role of Buffalo Bill and met with a lot of trans people at bars and nightclubs. He ultimately came to the conclusion that his character was neither trans nor gay, and was a homophobic misogynist. Unfortunately like you said a lot of his characterization is missing in the film and Levine feels awful about how his portrayal of the character has hurt people, which I don't think is his fault if the backstory is on the cutting room floor.
Bring me Neptune, the non-binary arsonist!
Aye, it's primarily on the fault of the production/final adjustments
A lot of people who claim the “trans woman” identity are homophobic misogynists. This has been going on since the phenomenon has been studied. I wish this was a conversation we could have in a respectful and mature manner but it’s not happening yet.
@@sarahb8147 taking a look at your subscriptions and seeing numerous channels discussing "transgender indoctrination" and "gender ideology," something tells me you don't actually care at all about respectful, mature conversation and instead just want to take the opportunity to punch down at a group that people with your beliefs actively victimize. nice job trying to feign civility though ♥
@@scrambledmeg the vast majority of the channels and creators I subscribe to are unquestioningly trans-positive. I do subscribe to some alternative viewpoints as well because some questionable behavior I’ve long observed, particularly online, by people claiming the identity of trans women, is concerning to me.
I don’t understand why the trans community is not also concerned about these people who do not seem to belong in the category of “trans” yet are claiming to represent the trans community. I’m a white woman; when I see a white woman being (for example) racist, I call that out and denounce her. I don’t see that happening in the trans community.
You can be as unsympathetic to my diverse subscribed channels as you want. Those channels are only able to survive and thrive because of the constant LOUD misbehavior of some of these people claiming the trans identity. Those people are behaving like terrorists and giving dangerous levels of bad press to actual trans people.
I’m not getting the vibe you really want to discuss this, and the comments section of this video probably isn’t the place, anyway. But we’re getting to the point where someone is going to have to address the bad actors latching onto and trying to take over the trans community. When a similar phenomenon happened back in the 70s with NAMBLA trying to latch on to the gay rights movement, gay people excised and denounced them in no uncertain terms. If they’d made a different decision, gay marriage might not be accepted today like it is-as a same-sex-attracted person myself, that’s a sobering and disturbing thought. The entire gay community should not have the responsibility of getting rid of bad actors in order to have basic human rights, but that’s the system we live in and their decision to put an end to NAMBLA’s leeching was crucial to their acceptance into society.
I hope the trans community does the same thing and gets the predators and autogynephiles claiming and defiling their name out of their movement. Because right now you have average Joes who see these loud voices claiming trans identities on Twitter and reddit and you know what they think? “Hey, that reminds me of Buffalo Bill.”
We should want the director’s intent to be preserved-he understood that trans women are NOT like Buffalo Bill and he never intended Bill to be a representation of the trans community. We shouldn’t have real-life people ACTING like Buffalo Bill creating bad press for the trans community, either.
I feel baffled that someone can watch this movie where in the opening scene, Clarice steps into an elevator full of men and they're all ogling her... And come out the other end saying there's no statements on gender or sexuality.
Hahaha oh my gosh, there were so many people like "It's just a movie chief :)"
Because the type of men who would say "there are no themes" are the same men who leer at women in elevators. Men like that love telling on themselves
I recently read the book, and its pretty much the main theme, without ever being addressed directly, what starling has to deal with constantly, solely because she's a woman
Most of the men in the elevator scene don't even look at Clarice. And the ones that do are not looking at her boobs or ass. I think the scene was trying to portray that everyone else was male and she was the only woman there. But we shouldn't just assume that the men were ogling her just because they were in an elevator with her.
You can write about situations where a female character is oggled at without making a statement. It's hard to tell if it is a statement as you say, or just a thing that happened and has no relation to the themes that the writer wanted to address in the book, but just a situation where the main character is shown to be different from her companions. That would make the situation personal and relating to the main characters and her motivations whatnot. And not a symbolic statement about women all over.
I don't know what it is, but I think you can watch that scene and come out the other end saying what you wrote.
When other TH-cam essayists talk about this movie they seem to portray Hannibal in a positive light. Sure, he's a monster that unalives people for trivial reasons, butchers them like livestock and eats them, but at least, he doesn't objectify Clarice's body like all the other men in the film do; he actually seems to respect her and see her as a qualified agent first and a woman second. I am in that camp.
But I've never considered your take: Lecter is just as bad as the other men; even if he isn't exactly like them, he still plays with her mind like it's his toy. A mental objectification. He plays with her memories and trauma for his own amusement.
I've seen this movie 20+ times and I never thought about this. Thanks for this video. Because of how charming and interesting he is, I often forget that Hannibal Lecter is the villain.
Thank you! For my first few viewings I 100% had the same opinion as you: he talks to her like an equal, he doesn't objectify her, he doesn't want sex. But the more I watched the more I asked "Why did Crawford 'sacrifice' Clarice to her? Is that why he picked her? What does Lecter get out of this?" and I started to think maybe Lecter isn't the sweet pea he seemed
I think people like Lector because he can control people even when he's in a cell. And he's even more dangerous once he inevitably uses his intelligence to get out.
I find objectifying a person's mind, their feelings and emotions can be far more sadistic and terrifying. Be it a crude manipulator, or an inmate who's bored and has found his prey in an aspiring FBI Agent, it's quite the scary thing to witness in these instances.
It's why I think, in many ways, Hannibal is the worst of them all. He's kind of like the "unthinkable" and "unpredictable" - something Clarice would have never been prepared for, and possibly as a result, made her feel things no sleezy creep had before. Perhaps, in that sense, leaving her feeling the most vulnerable she ever had.
You could also argue though, given the outcome by the end of the movie, that Lecter's interactions with Clarice strengthened her moving forwards with her career.
It's more obvious in the movie Hannibal. He gets her shoes, a dress with a plunging neckline. He makes the guy who was harassing her eat his own brain, but because he "was messing with his woman".
He forces a kiss on her after she says she'll never acknowledge his love for her. And it excites him.
And let's be real.. it's hard to dislike Anthony Hopkins
With way the film was shot and the dialogue included in the script it just shocks me people were like "nah, this doesn't have to do with the male perception of women at all!!". I recently watched it for the first time and immediately picked up on it's themes. They are part of what makes the movie so unsettling.
I took a "Film in Literature" class and I learned a huge facet of horror/thriller films in general relates to femininity: themes of Puritanism, like virginity and the original sin, and the "evil" of femininity and how it contrasts to the idea of the righteous male protagonist being two primary examples. Think "Rosemary's Baby" and "The Exorcist," respectively. You could say that "Alien" is the antithesis of those.
Horror as a genre should be seen as being critical of the notion of toxic masculinity and misogyny, but unfortunately a large portion it is sold to promote the opposite of these ideas (see: slasher films) because it sells better to a mainstream audience. That said, there are many great pro-femininity horror films as well, it's just that they don't seem to have the same commercial success.
The Exorcist did focus on the idea that women talking about sex is something that the devil would want. I often think that some people are too quick to accuse movies of gender bias, but there is some truth in some of it, at least in the old movies.
@Chandller Burse No, of course not. I think that it is okay for women to talk about sex in the appropriate situation. Plus, I don't believe in the Devil so I don't think women are actually affected by him.
You can find a lot of examples of horror/thriller movies where the threat or problem is feminine and a lot where it is masculine. Sounds fair to me.
@chandllerburse737 That's my reading too. If anything, Rosemary's Baby is at least somewhat, if not thoroughly, anti-male, especially considering how we see Rosemary CONSTANTLY oppressed by all the men and many of the women in her life who relentlessly reinforce the patriarchal order; on this view Satanism doesn't represent a liberation from old-world sexual servitude, but a grotesque mirror image of it. The movie confronts the horrifying thought that there's no escaping the despair of female slavery. Seems fairly subversive to me (which is remarkable considering the director's well-documented feelings about women).
Incredible video! As someone from West Virginia, I think her being considered "white trash" really amplified your point. From personal experience people see women from West Virginia (especially ones with heavy accents) as uneducated hilljacks, and that would create a further degree of seperation. When my mother moved to california she actually had to unlearn her West Virginia accent because everyone said she sounded like clarice and that it made her sound unintelligent, which was especially a big deal since she worked in communications, often with men.
Lector, in their first interview, mentions that Clarice has been trying desperately to shed her West Virginia accent.
The dumb hillbilly stereotype is male in 90% of media, culture and personal stereotypes of people. I doubt that people see southern women being as more stupid than southern men.
Well, that stems from the fact that thick Southern accents come from immigrants from England who were uneducated farmers.
I wouldn't say that womanhood is subtext in the film - it's, like, THE text. It's the crux of it all, from start to finish, top to bottom, womanhood and femininity are key throughout. I mean, they set it up at the very beginning, in the elevator. That sets the tone straight away. Love this movie. And you, too, Mert - sorry for not commenting for a while, I've been busy with school and am now catching up on your backlog of quality stuffs. I love how your channel has grown! I hope you're proud of yourself - you're doing a good damn job, friend.
Welcome back Justin! I hope school has been going well 😍 and thank you for watching
Maybe its me reading too much into it but I always felt that Jack wanted Clarice because she was honest but naive. Definitely smart but not willing to sacrifice her ideals. When questioning her grades I thought that was a test, to see if she was willing to stand up for herself even when it makes her seem weaker. Hannibal was intelligent but hubris, he would've likely ignored a seasoned agent, and judging from the guy agents they would've tried much harder to prove themselves. With Hannibal mentally crewing them out for daring to challenge him.
Maybe its just me but Clarice hit that middle ground. Smart enough to get the job done but innocence enough that Hannibal would take the bait as he loves toying with people. Something a behavioral expert would do and Jack is showcased to push limits to get results.
I think this is a really good explanation: Clarice would be like a dark horse, humble and easily underestimated. It's a shame that Clarice was kind of sacrificed in that way (sacrificial lamb) - her innocence being something he'll chew up and spit out - but definitely
I also think it's pretty overt for a 90s/00s movie that Cl is gay. which might also be why she was chosen. she's surrounded by young men but hasn't married anyone or been labled as getting an mrs degree. so the choice might be based on the fact that Hannibal is also pretty gay coded. She's also a woman with a lot of experience with working in the male world, and the gendered parts of the case would really point someone like jack to ask, "what is the point of murdering a women if not sex?" and a woman in a male field would have a unique take.
i never thought jack had any intrest in Cl sexually. what's interesting to me is that her "roommate" was never contacted or involved as another woman in the FBI. (raising the question of if her race would be a hinderance in jack's mind.)
edit: i also think there's some trans allegories being made between bill and Cl. she wants to be like the men in her life. do male things. work in a male job. Bill presents as a man but works in a feminine job, sewing. wants to be like the women in their life. Cl has jack. bill has lecter.
Interesting...I took Clarice's commitment to truthfulness as the opposite of naivety.
A lot of women with experience in career tracks that have "power + responsibility" aspects/roles, esp traditionally male-dominated fields, who are on the threshold of going from junior to middle/senior roles, get the paradoxical feeling of "being puppeteered" by mentors or people in leadership roles, without knowing why or having access to the goals + thinking behind these higher-ups' decisions, & the women I've discussed this stuff with struggle with even putting a finger on exactly why they feel puppeteered, & doubt themselves, & doubt their perceptions. It's a really intangible feeling with extremely concrete effects that fuels Imposter Syndrome & makes it significantly more challenging while adding unnecessary emotional/psychological labour when integrating women, BIPOC, LGBTQ+, & working class people into organizations, disciplines, & roles that were traditionally withheld from these groups.
I liked her. While the star og themovie is lector.
And it might be because she was ignored and overlooked but competent and an outsider.
But i though she waschosen because interesting enough to maybe get his interest but strong too.
Crawfoedmust have seen her as prettycompetent even notbeing the best person. Even with ulrätirior motives.
I thought she was done well. Amd in that movie hanibalis anawful god so , she gets what she wants, but is also earning " gods" respect.
And crawford. Has seen will, going , warning isnt disrespecful here.
I thoughtinteresting, she is strong but vunerable and dealing with forces she cant control, but manage. Ok the hanibal being the star really and the buffalo bill, i think good balance.
Like she was doing a loosing game above her paygrade and did ok?!
Not a woman here but isnt that anotbad commentary what shit women can deal regarding expectations .
And its a horror movie?!
I think she works as strong but tragic human character that doesnt loose really,
@@hannahep5148 I've heard some people say the way she's talking to her roommate, they way she looks at her (they look at each other) makes it clear she's gay. I'm not sure that's supposed to be part of the movie though, that might just be Jodie Foster.
Silence of the lambs is one of the movies that is closest to the source material I've ever seen!
One of my favorite film facts is the reason there are so many shots where people are staring at the camera is to make everyone feel like Clarence and it is impactful
I don't know how anyone thinks that Silence of the Lambs isn't about being a woman in a hostile male dominated field is wild
I distinctly remember when I watched this movie, alone in my bedroom around 6pm so the room wouldn't be too dark, and the thing I remember most clearly is how nauseous the movie made me feel. At the time I just figured it was the fact that I'm not used to thriller films but now I honestly think how silence of the lambs reflects my own experiences with womanhood and male dominated fields amplified the intensity for me. Incredible.
Also a great video!
I think another interesting aspect of the movie is the focus on the state senator's daughter having to be kidnapped in order for investigation unit to prioritize looking for buffalo bill. Might be looking too into it but interesting to think about.
The primary thing that makes me so upset whenever the defense that "the writer/director of the movie didn't intend for Bill to be trans" is genuinely used, is that the main list of trans characters in film on Wikipedia has Bill listed as a historical trans character. (no matter how many times I've sent editorial notes recommending that it's a bad addition, along with many other characters on the list but that's another rant) there comes a point that if the general public sees something as representative of a public group, even if the author didn't intend it, that there is consequences. That list is formed from popular public feed back, so the majority of voices are in favor of bill being trans representing. Even with wikipedias natural biases and personal interference, it's remained the same for decades in that decision. The films depiction of a people group has had an impact on the major cultural view of those people, as art is designed to do. An impact that has hurt and is still greatly hurting a lot of lives. This single film is if course not responsible for the entire anti trans movement or politics, but what it has done is created a concept for many to latch onto about what living as trans is like, one many at least subconsciously hold for things they don't understand, and this reinforces that.
That being trauma and disgust being defining to being trans. There's a belief a lot of people, both those with Ill intent and good intent, that being trans is defined by one's self hate, body disgust, and trauma. I see it a lot when non trans people start defending trans rights by only pointing to things like suicide rates and self harm, and by those attacking trans people by again pointing to suicide rates and self harm, now claiming "being transed caused this." This I feel ties into the idea that by being trans there is something broken or wrong with you, that it needs to be fixed or taken out of you. This idea is so prelevent in main culture that even many trans people, formerly myself included, believe this about themselves, and that they're wrong and need to be made right in the world.
I genuinely hate this belief. The way it defines all trans people by their unhappiness, struggles and death. This applies to even more than trans people infact, as also an immigrant I'm constantly reminding that the way people in my new country view life in my home is entirely based on it's violence, suffering, and pain. (especially ones they cause via colonialism but still frame as "our problems" again another rant) and I will say, it's good to acknowledge the problems, and it's good to fix those problems. But people are not problems, people are living humans and should never be described as a thing. I hate the general depiction of trans, immigrant, honestly most of not all suppressed people because it's the most dehumanizing shit I've ever seen. People, and especially writers and general workers in media want to use entire groups of people as props or dressing, taking people and turning them into things. And again I get it, it's practically impossible to show the fullness of a human being in just character, the common job of writers is honestly turning people into things. But what I do wish and know people can do is stop saying these things are representation, stop saying it's "a look into the trans condition" or whatever they're putting on reviews. And this isn't meant to just apply to writers, as said they can't control the audience much, but more over this is dedicated to the public view. The way the major public is willing to accept a depiction as an all encompassing reality for the incredibly complicated state of being human is both as old as stories, and still terrifying. I'm glad to see more people leave that way of thinking, but still not enough are willing to even accept the reality of it's existence.
To try bringing this back to the original topic, the main pain I have with the view of Bill as trans, is they're a character with no joy, love, or acknowledging of self. (There's probably better words to describe this but English is not native to me please be patient) At least to me and those I've talked to, one of the primary aspects of being trans is self acceptance and love. Again this is left out of the narrative many make about being trans, but it's a genuine aspect of our lives. We are painfully aware of our bodies, and we build on ourselves to both better our own body, and our love for that body. There's a lot of self care and healing one has to make as trans, you have to relearn your relationship with how you live, how you view yourself. This is where I think so many people miss it, because when they hear the concept of someone changing their body because it doesn't fit or (don't know the word that best fits but the idea of not being proper or correct to the setting it's in, like a ground bird being forced into a tree) there's this idea that it must be from self hate, or loathing. That they want to mask over and hide their body, that they want it hurt or destroyed. So the audience with this view of trans people then projects it onto a character like Bill. Bill takes the skin of others and uses it to hide their own, in that state they experience "joy." Except by the way the scene is done not at all. The scenes are done to provoke disgust, discomfort and hate, and nothing is truly about Bill, but the concept. The concept bill is designed to be, and as a result the audience then takes as describing the concept of being trans. And it's not even close to the experience of trans joy, the point of transition is so that in your own body, your own skin, you feel joy, love, self care etc. There is never a need or point to taking that of someone else because you are you, and it's been about loving that, and bettering that. Transition is an experience of self love, also said you come to accept yourself and better yourself, because ultimately you're developing and growing, changing during the process because that is life, and you have to accept that.
And unfortunately those looking in won't accept an idea that goes against their narrative of what it's really like, even in the face of what trans people are experiencing.
Also side note just want to make clear this is attacking/targeting no one, not the writer's or directors, and definitely not you or your video. It's purely my own reaction to the film, and I generally like to assume the best intentions on the behalf of the creators. The primary goal was to acknowledge how many non trans people have these incorrect ideas that shape their view of trans folks, and how films like tsotl, even accidentally, support these beliefs both openly and subtly.
There's a real push right now across multiple countries but especially the north and west to silence/destroy trans folks and communities so I do thank anyone creating content that stands to talk about trans folks in a respectful and humanizing way, and against those causing harm. It does go a long way to help more people at least acknowledge what's happening. Again thank you for this piece , and take care
What do you mean by the north, I thought countries like Denmark and Sweden were very good when it came towards this kind of thing?
The fact is that some male trans identifying people (trans women) are, indeed, like buffalo bill. Famously chris chan even did the goodbye horses dance. Before he raped his mother. Theres many more autogynephiles who would like to wear our skin too. Just because it makes you all look bad doesnt mean its not true.
@@sometimesawful it's just that people like you who don't even know anything about us like to lie and exaggerate how much it actually happens.
(Also, I'm not going to bother replying to you, because the tin foil hat is enough of an indicator).
(Also, if you actually cared to properly research anything, you'd realise that autogynophilia doesn't exist).
@@sometimesawful you've proven my point, you've taken media against the words of the creators and used it to hurt a people group. And no, with all the trans people I've worked with and that have worked with me none of them would "want to wear your skin." That's not a thing people want to do. And that's not an idea you'd have ever had if it wasn't for the movie unfortunately. Media isn't reality,but you sure let it control what you view reality as
@@jamwrightiam so you won't address autogynephilia. You can pretend there's no scary men out there who claim to be women but it's just the way it is. In reality. I know you realize it harms how you're accepted but you need to take that up with the chris chans, the harvey marcelins, the karen whites.
Im not disagreeing with the creators of this movie or the actor, the character of buffalo bill was not accepted as a transsexual by therapists. Back then, though, you had to meet certain requirements. Now you only have to declare your womanhood and it's immediately accepted as gospel. So its a safety issue for women.
In the books hannibal absolutely kills people because they were rude, miggs was killed for the act of being rude. Also in the books clarice ends up marrying lector. I totally missed precious being a lamb allegory!!
I’d be super curious to hear your opinion on Psycho! The exploration of female sexuality, independence, and also the exploitation of DID and Norman’s experience with his mother. This video was excellent
I've not seen that film! I've seen it parodied everywhere though, maybe it's time
What's DID? I'd like to know haha I love Psycho. I got the books gifted to me just recently 😭💗
@@nocte.animam Disassociative Identity Disorder (previously known as split personality disorder).
Psycho is so layered with how it juxtaposed Marian and Norman too...totally recommend.
@@NormanBatesJr99 I see. Thanks!
I think how a lot of people see Hannibal really tells us how low the bar is for men.
"Yeah, he's a cannibal who tortures people... but he treats Clarice kinda okay, so he's awesome."
*The bar is so low, it's a tavern in Hades.*
Absolutely! "He's not cartoonishly abusive so he's probably alright"
Buffalo Bill, as a nonbinary person, weirds me out a lot. I wouldn’t be upset to see a transgender character that just so happened to be a killer, but their motives being tied to their gender identity, their stereotypical manner, and the fact that they’re the ONLY trans character deeply disappoints me.
He is the only trans character, because there are not too many trans people in general.
Yeah, but it's a general rule of thumb that if you include an villain that is of a certain identity, you should probably include an additional character of that identity that is good to show that that identity isn't bad.
@@lizzyfredrick2363 Perhaps, but only about 0.01% of people are non-binary and there are only so many characters you can put into a film.
@@mechinateyou just said the same thing as the person they replied to.
@@mechinate theres around 1.2 Million non binary ppl in the US alone
Literally one non transphobic character who brings the slightest nuance to this transphobic garbage fire would have been enough
The section on author intent reminded me of how appalled the writer was at how some people were idolising Hannibal Lector, and this affected how he wrote the sequel.
Also, I'd love to see your take on the game Rule of Rose, I think there's alot of potential to discuss gender and power dynamics in it and I've liked what you've had to say about it here.
I actually have so many notes on Rule of Rose ready! There's loads about the politics of growing up as a young woman in that video that I enjoy. Tons of imagery. All the characters (to me) are like facets of one psyche. I love that the school is so weirdly isolated beyond all geographic reaches as well. Ah, we'll get there :D
Unfortunately there's a not tiny portion of the Internet that wants to jump the bones of serial killers. So unsurprising
@@mullerpotgieter I think they call it Bonnie and Clyde syndrome, I remember it has a name and it's a proper weird psychology thing! Crazy stuff
@@MertKayKay I think the proper medical name is Hibristophilia? Not sure if people who have that would be into fictional killers as well as real ones, though.
Lmao, I respect that.
"Why tf do you love this monster? Okay, time to ruin him entirely because NO. Bad reader, bad!"
I think this is one of those movies where the message and themes are not hammered in and poorly written, and I actually got them- because I'm not always the sharpest tool in the shed 😅
I think this movie does a great job SHOWING you Clarice's struggle in a male-dominated workplace, and not just telling you like any other film would. Even as a man, I understood her plight and empathize with her.
Otherwise, this is a great movie, and this is a great video, Mert 😁
I think the idea of casual depravity is something very prevalent in SotL. Lector is casually cruel, cold, and is not to be trusted, even in spite of his "competence" as a psychologist and fellow murderer. He views the entire world of living people as meat for his own appreciation and consumption. Even at his most "empathetic" toward Clarice, he never actually "likes" her for more than the small amusement she continues to bring him, because she's just a stimulant for his pleasure. The true horror of Lector is the illusion of competence, composure, and apathy he tries to push onto others to create terror and power for himself. I think about how unhinged it is to casually murder your deranged cell-mate for slighting someone you met for only a brief moment, but it all contributed to Lector building this narrative around himself that simply isn't true. I think Buffalo Bill is suppose to parallel this in many ways while interacting with characters like Lector indirectly. Like Lector, Bill casually uses women to accomplish nothing more than a personal agenda, and Lector can't help but prick at Bill from afar by sticking a woman on him that believe's he could only ever *want* to be a woman. He profiled Bill that way so Clarice would look down on him, which I think just serves to highlights Lector's competence as a manipulator again. I watched a video once analyzing the cinematography of Lector and Clarice's first conversation and how the camera angle changes to subliminally suggest how the power dynamic changes between the two of them. Very captivating stuff, no doubt an extremely well-done film.
In the book it’s stated that Clarice did want to work explicitly under Crawford as she admired his intelligence and Crawford picked her for her naivety because he thought it would appeal to Lecter and get him to help with the case
I don't believe I've read the book (if I did, it didn't make much of an impression on me) but those were my takeaways from watching the movie.
It’s honestly rare to hear a cis British woman talking about silence of the lambs in a way that ISN’T transphobic. This analysis absolutely rocks ❤️❤️ instant subscriber gained 😘
Transphobia is WHOLLY unwelcome here, thank you for the sub and hope you enjoy the content :D
@@MertKayKayyoure a credit to your census category
You mean a British woman? You don't need to add extra adjectives to the meaning of the word. That's like saying meat eating carnivore.
@@emma_luce_0623 cis is merely a relevant adjective to the conversation at hand. if we are having a conversation about hair color i will specify virgin vs chemically processed, blonde vs brunette, or natural vs fashion color.
Cisco is an insult. Tra is the expeption.
Just call real women women. Don't oben to the woke delulu
What I find hillarious is that when people talk about "strong female characters" they often give examples exactly of the opposite, of what the male gaze sees as a strong female:
- Silence of the Lambs = Claire acts and talks the way she does because its the only way she will get the people who hold power (men) to give her what she needs
- Alien: Ripley's direct orders not to bring in the infested crewmate is ignored
- Metroid: Samus' gender identity becomes irrelevant in the suit. The point is not that shes a girl who kicks ass, but that her womanhood is insignificant until the post credits.
Terminator: Sarah's importance is only that of the mother of the Hero, not as a hero herself. Without this aspect of her, her life is meaningless to both the hero and the villain
It seems like the concept of womanhood in media existed back then only in the way men can understand it, if that makes sense
Thats some massive bs you wrote lol. Ripleys orders may have been ignored, but she still kicks ass. The trope of "Main character warns people about danger and they dont listen to him/her" is old as time. Your understanding that a strong character is unfailable and have complete autority and control is WRONG. I can list you male protagonist in same/similar situations. Sarah Connor - she wanst even a mother yet in the first movie you muppet lol. She was one of the 3 MAIN CHARACTERS. And the whole plot was around her. In the second movie we see her grow as warrior and protector of her child. Moma bear if you will. Did you forget that scene in the end where she blasts the main bad guy with a shoutgun? Or where she invades some dudes house coz to kill him and destroy the chip from the first movie? TO STOP THE APOCALYPSE! Jonh Connor is basically a mcguffin in the movies. You can replace him with a flashdrive - the stary stays the same. He is not a real character. We never see him fight or overcome stuff. He is there to be important. He is NOT THE HERO OF THE STORY.
Ripley - the whole “smart person or scientist trying to warn people but got ignored and led to disaster” is such a common trope in any disaster movies regardless of gender. Plus, people didn’t disobey her because she’s a woman. They disobeyed her because they were too emotional to let Kane die on a deserted planet and saw her practical suggestion as too heartless not to rescue Kane. Also, Kane got in the ship anyway because an android opened the door against her command for his own ulterior motive (bringing back an alien lifeform). Other than that she’s badass and became strong all the way through both to protect herself and those she loves. Ripley is one of the first “final girls” in cinematic history.
Sarah Connor - Sarah’s role was just a mother of a hero…only in the first half of the first movie. She was just a naive waitress victim who was confused about why a muscular robot from a future tried to kill her until the second half when Kyle was killed and she had to be the one who solve the problem for herself. Since then her character development went through the roof. She’s actually the protagonist of the second movie. She became cynical, paranoid and extremely violent warrior to the point that she almost became a psychopath killer trying to kill Dyson thanks to her obsession, almost becoming a terminator like Arnold in the first movie. Then she realized her flaws and by seeing the relationship between Arnold and John Connor developed, she became more open-hearted and realized Arnold’s humanity by the end of the story. John Connor might be the “chosen one” but the story truly focuses on Sarah. She was even the one who gave the ending speech in the end of second movie.
You seem to not understand what these characters are about then
God, I hate the whole obession with "strong female characters" and "It's a form of womanhood men can understand" is such a succinct way of explaining why. Great points all around. Sorry about the condescending comments your getting, looks like you struck a nerve.
@@silverstorm3729 He or she gave good examples of strong female characters, ngl
Although we probably couldn’t have cared less about rather Samus is a female or a male as long as the devs get it right
I recently wrote a paper on Silence of the Lambs! I'm lifelong Clarice Sterling stan, glad you're making videos about movies now, educate those gamers
I've only read the book and not watched the film, but it never once crossed my mind that BIlly was a transsexual. I can see why people can choose to come to that conclusion, but Harris included elements to distant people from that conclusion: The statement that trans people are rarely violent, the inclusion of Billy's backstory eluding to sexism/misogyny and the fact Billy "failed the trans test". To me, this all impled that Billy was not a misunderstood transwoman, but a violent, misogynyistic man that veiwed women as subhuman, so much to the point that wanted to wear them as clothes. His female skin-suit was derived from hatred and trauma, not gender dyphoria.
This book is clearly fixated on how women are treated, and this is highlighted within Billy's treatment as women as no more than a costume. I think this parallel is also made when Lecter escapes by stealing the face of a police officer - he does this for his own selfish reasons too. Perhaps the film shows a different perspective, but to me, Billy was always a violent misogynist and nothing more. I think if people choose to take the perspective that Billy was a mistreated transwoman forced to murder women to satisfy his gender dysphoria, then that ironically plays into the book's theme of men's goals and wants being prioritised over women's suffering.
44:12 "Billy embodies the negative stereotypes of trans people-big hulking heavy-jawed men with deep scary voices who throw on a dress simply to do harm to cisgendered women-and feeds back into those stereotypes in turn. It's simply a bad representation."
Oof, yeah, when you put it that way, it feels pretty obvious now. I haven't seen this film in quite a long time, and I didn't watch it with the same understanding of gender I have today, so I don't think I really engaged with the implications very much at the time. I think you hit the nail on the head. Not to say that trans women need to pass or be especially feminine to be valid, but I agree, the character is in many ways a stereotype made into a serial killer. Not a great look.
By the way, thanks for including closed captions in your videos. I appreciate the extra work you put in to presumably converting your scripts into captions.
51:38 Also thanks for doing the work of making the internet less infuriating to use lol. I agree with your metaphor regarding the communication of author intent as well, I've never thought of it that way.
Aww thank you Daimyo! I appreciate that you always give me these meaty comments to read. No worries on the closed captions either, they're very relaxing to do (except when I go off script and I have to manually retype what I said!)
@@MertKayKay Thanks, I'm glad to hear you appreciate them, because I enjoy writing them. Your content is very engaging, and in my opinion, encourages analysis from a new perspective. So I love to contribute whatever I can to the discussion.
I hope you enjoy the rest of your day.
This is such a great in depth analysis of the film, it is one of my favorite films of all time and every time I watch it, I discover something different about it. This is true horror, the kind of horror where the villains are real and capable of real life evil acts. I think that Harris's books really changed the thinking about psychological horror, how scary the mind can truly be when it is not on your side.
Horror has so many forms. It can be scary, it can be fascinating, it can be disturbing, it can be confusing and at times... beautiful. This is what makes horror so great imo
@@MonkeyDToniProductions yessss, and it is universal, bad things can happen to anyone at any time really.
@@brentmartin1981 Until you meet the character with infinite plot armour
Wait, Silence of the Lambs has FeMiNiSt themes!? Next you're gunna say that Fury Road is actually a feminist coded film?!
Some people really try their hardest to ignore anything they don't like lmao
i get so excited by new mertkaykay vids. they never dissappoint
I'm so happy to hear that Cal! :D I shall make MORE
You always do a fantastic job of breaking things down and treating difficult topics with the respect they deserve. It makes your reviews way better to watch than someone just breaking down plot points.
Also, I HIGHLY relate to bad UX right now. Just spent over 24 hours trying to get in contact with PS support...
Oh man the PS app gives me hives, I sincerely hope you find your resolution soon! :( Hostile design is crumby
"White trash" is considered more offensive now than it used to be. Idk some poor white people call themselves this as a joke or to reclaim it, but the problem is the racist implication as well as it being a classist term. (It means poor and classless - less dignified than normally expected of white people, is the implication.)
West Virginia was originally economically centered on coal mining. Now many of the mining towns are ghost towns, and it's among the poorest states.
Just some more US cultural background. Idk I like when foreign people tell me details about their countries. :3
Thanks for the background! Ironically Nottingham was also a huge coal mining area also 😁🤣 West Virginia Massive!
Gein was making a skin suit from womens' bodies, but it's likely that he wanted to "become" his mother after her death as opposed to being trans. Maybe Harris and the filmmakers just avoided the same kind of mommy obsession because it'd come off as a rip-off of Psycho.
That was my long term take too, he seeks to assume the form of the ones he perceives to have power over him by proxy.
I read the book before I watched the movie and I think that's why I never looked at Buffalo Bill as anything more than a guy who was a complete psychopath, who had a twisted fantasy of somehow ascending from his real life into someone else completely once he put on the skin suit....book went into a lot of detail about how he was absolutely not transsexual. I wish the movie could've got that point across in a more clear concise way.
I really appreciated this video, especially the amount of nuance you introduced the main theme with along with the transgender topic. I was really worried at the start of this video, but I am so glad that even as an ally you recognize the problem with the character and how it was represented. I was especially impressed that you pointed out how harmful these representations can be because people then use them as examples to paint transgenders as dangerous people. A lot of allies I know are often too quick to shrug it off as "just fictional"/"just one's interpretation" (as you excellently put it) or take a work's word for it when they attempt to brush over all the bad implications. So overall, this was just really well done, and it felt like you really knew your stuff throughout the video. As a writer, I was also glad you mentioned on difficult this can be at times (I'm learning to loosen up about this in some areas and do my best to help other writers realize "you can't win them all"), but that we can still hold ourselves to some standards concerning serious topics and need to consider how things come across. If one's showcase supports the viewpoint of bigots, then it isn't a good representation and could be potentially dangerous, and again, I am so glad you pointed this out. Just 10/10 dealing with this topic.
The movie's treatment of it personally makes me so uncomfortable as someone who is transgender myself that this film has sat on my movie blacklist for ages, and I don't plan to remove it anytime soon despite the interesting themes. So I'm glad I was able to hear about them still through your video and in such a well-explained and compassionate manner. Your takes on horror games are so refreshing, and it seems your takes on horror movies are much the same. We have a similar taste in horror and how we prefer these things to be written, so it was nice to hear you discuss this film, and if you ever want to discuss more horror movies in the future, I'll be looking forward to it!
Am personally from West Virginia and I can genuinely say that because of the way people from my state are viewed, it's often almost an automatic reaction to suppress my accent when speaking to those from out of state. It's not uncommon for people from elsewhere to treat us as outright unintelligent or "just acting smart to impress people" just because of an accent, even a mild one. It's even worse if you happen to be from a region of the state with a much heavier accent, to the point where even other West Virginians make jabs at those from other regions based on the prominence of their accents.
LOVED your break down. I actually didn't see this movie until college of all times cuz I was always a bit afraid of how gory it supposedly was. Ended up reading the book then watching the movie in a really interesting media literacy kind of class I was in. It was fascinating to see what subtle differences there are from the book to the movie and then even further to the NBC show (which i LOVE btw XD) and while I like the movie very much, I always got caught on how different Hopkins' performance was to the way Lecter is in the book and from there how Mikkelsen's performance brought it back.
But anyway back on subject XD while it would have been nice personally to see Clarice end up alone at the end, I do really appreciate that they at least had her hook up with the guy who actually treated her like a person as opposed to the object like the rest of the men in the film. He was also the most straight forward in his advances, he was honest in how he felt and didn't try to use any dirty tricks to get at her. It's something I didn't fully notice until you pointed how how he just straight up asked her out. It also says a lot about how we're conditioned to just deal with men treating us as sub-human that we can completely miss it when one does because we're just not used to it.
To be fair, I think our society tends to have a negative view of men who try to manipulate women. They are rarely ever presented positively in movies or talked about positively. Women manipulating men is more likely to be treated with a laugh because it is "gender flipped".
I think part of the problem is that society expects men to ask out women on first dates. If women asked men out half the time A) I think women would find that it isn't as easy as they think and B) you'd probably find that women would act just as bad as men do now.
@@greywolf7577 Except it's only the most extreme, most violent acts of manipulation that society really frowns upon. Men are still encouraged to push back against a No. Men are still encouraged to be the SOLE moneymaker, leaving their partner entirely dependent on them so they cannot leave easily. Men are encouraged to channel pretty much any feeling into rage and violence... The list goes on and on and on.
Yes men don't get taken seriously as victims as part of the idea that women are 'weaker' therefore it's either shameful for a man to be a victim or he's secretly into it as far as society goes. It's all still patriarchy.
And no, women would not immediately all act like that. That's the same damn argument that was used by the people who wanted to keep being allowed to own other humans as slaves... "Well if we give them equal rights they'll treat us the way we abused them for centuries" is not a valid nor legitimate argument...it's fear mongering. The truth is if we were treated equally (and as such felt SAFE to ask men out, which we don't cuz we have NO idea which one is fine and which one will kill us) then overall EVERYONE would get better treatment cuz there wouldn't be a passed along, violently (yes i do mean actual violence) enforced sense of superiority from one group towards another...
@@StonedHunter Your comment reminded me of the Meme where a girl posted about how she told a boy no and he then ignored her and she wanted to know why he didn't try harder to get her to date him. I agree that there are some men who don't take no for an answer, but there are also some women who play hard to get and purposefully give mixed signals. Hopefully we get fewer of both of those types of people.
If a man makes less money than his wife, many people in society, including often the wife herself, sees him as lazy or under achieving, whereas women aren't generally seen as under achieving if they make less than their husbands. Even at the beginning of relationships, I think you'd still find today that women are much less likely to date someone who makes less money than her, whereas men are much more willing to date women that make less money than him. Being a stay at home wife can be limiting, but given that she can get half of the family bank account and properties and sometimes alimony, it doesn't trap women as much as people might think.
I disagree that men are encouraged to channel pretty much any feeling into rage and violence. If a man hits a woman, he is seen as an abuser. If a woman hits a man, people often ask what he did to deserve it. I've seen videos where a male and female actor will pretend to abuse each other in the street. When the man is physically pushing around the woman, other people rush in to stop it. When the woman is physically pushing around the man, people either ignore it or smirk at it. It is very rare to see a movie where a good male character hits a woman. It is far more common to see a movie where a woman slaps a man and it is presented as justified.
Asking a man out is no more dangerous to a woman than a man asking a woman out is to a woman. I think people just see it as strange for a woman to ask out a man and so they treat it as dangerous when in reality it would probably be safer for women than the current set up because they'd get more choice in who they want to date. I do think there is a lot of sexism that teaches that women would never do some of the bad things that men do because women are seen as more pure than men are.
I think one of the points you made in the “author intent vs audience reaction” part of the video was really interesting. The idea that the need for/utility of interpretation is what takes art from good/unobjectionable to something more than that makes a lot of sense!
Reminder that in the not too distant past it was perfectly valid for a trans person to be denied gender affirming surgery on the grounds that the assessor/s considered they wouldn’t be attractive enough by mainstream gender standards.
Considering that the people who couldn’t “pass” would have a higher chance of suicide because a trans woman would become their own worst critic. I mean there are several infamous cases occurring from the silicone valley where they cited that issue as the reason of their suicide despite having bottom surgery top surgery but didn’t feel confident enough to speak with a cosmetic surgeon to meet their ideal of womanhood and just gave up. Contra Points had a video going over her own self criticisms and how close she got to the edge. Now we have the cosmetic tech for feminizing features and blocking puberty. I don’t think the doctors weren’t aware of suicidal thoughts and the lack/affordability/possibility of certain cosmetic surgeries.
It kinda sucks to imagine how maybe Bill and Clarice could have discovered they shared a sort of mutual misunderstanding in their lives had they met some years before the first book. This was one powerhouse of a movie and the actors/director were so goddamn on point that the tension on a first watch felt almost real. Bill was great being an even worse asshole in Shutter Island (Ted something, I forget the actors name but he's great) where he casually asks Leo what might happen if he went to bite his eye out of his head. Maybe the actor writes his own lines and people just put some of that into movies.
Great vid! I damn near forgot about that uneasy microscope the movie put on the men/Clarice relations in the workplace! That shit is so uncomfortable it's painful.
Great video, I like your conclusion about how it is important for media to be somewhat open to interpretation to remain relevant and discussed over long periods of time, just as I also enjoy when you talk about UX.
Aww I am so glad you like my UX mumbo jumbo :D
Yas it's finally here👏🏻👏🏻 well worth the slog, bravo buddyo, very interesting listen while I work on my crochet piece
Also, obligatory twitch reminder because Amazon keeps shouting at me for not using my twitch prime subscription
Thank you Caitlin, my new years resolution is to plan a return stream >:)
I think what the film was trying to say is that, Billy wasn't trans gender by virtue of the fact that it was more of a sexual thing than it was an identity thing.
Thats why they distance themselves from that explicitly imo.
I'm so pumped for this video! This movie has always held a special spot in my heart! It without a doubt help drive me to study psychology! I can't wait to hear your perspective and insight on the very heavy and still impact full topics it covers!
PS. Stay amazing 👏 💚
omg hey mert congrats on this making it all the way onto my notifs
Ily2 Karissa it is an HONOUR to be in your notifs
When I first watched this movie, I was like eleven or twelve and the transgender issues flew past me but I did notice the movie was feminist, with Clarice being a woman that had to face many challenges in her life and work, with people either belittling or lusting for her. Even Crawford, who people think has father relationship with her, I felt like he never took her that seriously. It felt was it was almost a game to him - she succeeds, good. we catch a serial killer; she fails, well what do you expect? Women, amirite?. I thought that it was weird that the serial killer that eats people was the one that treated her with most respect. However, I grew up a bit and had this idea that while most men lust for her body, Hannibal lusted for her mind. While most men were stripping her clothes in their minds, Hannibal was stripping from her most vulnerable memories and fears, to the point of her crying. I was happy for Clarice when she proved herself by catching Bill and graduating. I think more modern movies could learn making female heroines like her. Great vid, cheers!
Realizing that I've been watching this movie for 30 years, which feels impossible.
I noticed this early on when I found your channel, but in addition to preferring to watch things in order, I wanted to make sure I didnt totally hate your opinions before hearing your take on a movie I'm weirdly invested in lol. but I'm glad to have watched this far, and did really enjoy this video.
I like your calling attention to the fact that Bill doesn't seem like a person who even *could* exist. It's so far away from the creation of this work, I forgot just how many existing serial killers were katamaried together to make them.
I hadn't heard the women as totems thing before, but that feels more directly/intentionally linked to ideas in Red Dragon.
Thanks Croc! I've enjoyed watching your comments slowly filter in along the timeline of my videos, and I'm really happy that you stuck around to see this one too. I completely understand, this is a brilliant movie - we have to do it justice!
you couldn't have had more perfect timing it is 4:00am in australia and I can't sleep for shit so maybe this will do the trick
I will rock you gently to sleep with my dark themes
@@MertKayKay worked a treat I slept like a brick 😇
I've only watched the film, however watching the film I never thought of Buffalo Bill as Trans.
He struck me more as an unseen individual wanting to be seen like women are. He's the opposite to Clarice, she is surrounded by the male gaze, Jamie is mostly unnoticed, living in a run down house by the train tracks, mostly forgotten about when requestioning the first victim's mum.
He seems to be unsure how to act as a woman too, least I got that impression when he imitates the girl's shriek in terror, its like its a detached understanding of how she feels, more a "if I scream/flail about that'll be more feminine" kind of thing. I never got the impression Trans people need to practise how to be the gender they feel, they just are. People that seem to try imitate poorly grossly misunderstand what it is to be the gender. Just looked like a case of "grass is greener on the other side" to me.
So in that sense I agree with you on women represented as a totem, if he dons the skin perhaps he'll be loved/seen for the first time in his life?
I'd definitely be interested in some analysis of the Hannibal show. I've never seen it but the fandom was it's own special brand of...something.
Most fandoms are… something
I actually just finished watching the TV show a few months ago, and it was really good in my opinion.
I was very put off from watching it due to the fandom back in ye olde Tumblr days, but I'm really glad I finally gave it a chance.
Just got a job at a super swanky bar as a bar manager and I needed this to chill out
:O one Pina Colada please
@@MertKayKay genuinely haven't made a Pina colada in a while you've stumped me
LOVE Silence of the Lambs! And the other books (but not movies). Related to your sponsor bit though: I missed an online test one weekend in college because I was reading “The Passage,” and the professor did, in fact, understand, because she recommended the book. 😂
why the hell does this only have 4,000 ish likes (not even that!)??? your explanation is brilliant, your points are succinct and excellent, your analysis is as amazing as always, good god we need to get you to a million
Thank you Chami!!! It means a lot
For context on the comment: I am an author and I have nonbinary family members, so I do understand all sides of the argument. I think that Buffalo Bill was an unfortunate biproduct of people hating trans folks. See, the movie is about the dynamics between men and women and how that impacts women. But Buffalo Bill does not fit into either category. I believe their purpose was to transcend the gender identities to prove that evil can exist in any form and grey area. I also suspect that one of the people working on the movie, maybe producer or such, strong armed the author into including more explicit dialogue surrounding Bill so it was less ambiguous
I know what you mean! The dialogue around Bill is a lot less naturally sewn into the script than anything else. When Clarice blurts out that "transsexuals are very passive" for example, it was a very heavy-handed way of inserting that dialogue. There are a few lines from Hannibal too that seem especially plastered in
I always assumed Clairesse was chosen because she would make the perfect bait for Hannibal, like a honey pot.
FUNFACT, buffalo bill actor is the same dude who plays Leland Stottlemeyer in one of the best shows ever made called Monk. I recommend that show and he’s a good actor.
Just found your channel and watched a few videos. Really love the content, and always excited to follow someone else from the UK😊
:o Thanks Alex! Always nice to meet a fellow UK dweller!!
This is really thoughtful, insightful work! Bravo, keep it up!
Thank you Dave!!
your raid shadow legends ad is the only sponsored ad on youtube that made me actually kinda wanna play raid shadow legends
and as a film nerd, hannibal series lover, and silence of the lambs obsessor, i cant believe RSL is actually what i commented about
I love this film and your analysis is spot on. As a trans/NB writer myself, Bill has always felt incredibly awkward in terms of their portrayal in this movie. I feel making them trans isn't the issue, so much as pointing at their trans identity as being the motive for their crimes. I'm all for trans rep with both good and evil characters, and anything in between, but their identity shouldn't be the reason for their bad behavior. Trans people are people, and can have the same motives as any other gendered or non-gendered person. Anyway, awesome stuff as always. 👍
Another great video!
Hannibals house is on Charles Street here in Baltimore, about 5 minutes away from where I grew up. The crazy thing is, I've been around that area so much that I don't even think about it anymore.
Fun fact the guy that plays the nerdy doctor with the glasses in this is also the voice actor for Mr Simmons from Hey Arnold 🤯
I always loved this movie, but that was always more for the classy, yet vulgar deteurogonist, Dr. Lecter. Always found his character completely fascinating. To show cannibalism in such a classy way was also definitely new, and also made me fascinated with the ethics of it (in my country, consensual cannibalism is actually legal, which I found very interesting).
Thanks for your perspective on one of my favourite movies :D
Horror is cultural commentary, with the villains often manifesting cultural fears and tensions. So yeah. It’s about women, and even if it wasn’t originally intended to be (which it probably was), it is now, given our societal context. Thanks for the video essay!
How is a transgender caricature when it's stated multiple times in the movie that no, Billy is not trans.
Lecter is insane, but he is a GOOD psychology expert and he is very adamant about it: Buffalo Bill is noy transgender. He is many things but not trans.
Yeah the idea he's an unreliable source of info is off to me, crawford and starling explicitly seek him out so as to get a psychological profile of BB. He read starling like a book immediately upon meeting her in that first meeting (the whole "youre from west virginia, you try to hide your accent, all you wanted growing up was to get as far away from there as you can") and sees her desire to save people and work in the FBI as a by-product and result of her PTSD over her father's death and her inability to save the lambs. That first meeting where he says all that stuff about her west virginia roots, she says "you see a lot doctor" and is clearly troubled by his dredging up of that buried stuff. So everything we see in the movie points to him knowing people extremely well and the things he's saying being accurate.
"Slay, I'll listen to that, Mert!" - me just now seeing this in my subs. (From a former woman who saw this when I was, I want to say 8? 9? and who is subsequently a huge fan of the artistic merits of cannibalism, this one is gonna do a number on me, no question. Will report back with more nuanced and cohesive thoughts lol)
Hi Mert, just wanted to say that, as a trans woman, I appreciate you making a decent point of view on this and showing a lot of respect. I can only echo others' view here that I have no problem with a trans character being a killer, but making them almost a characature is offensive and then to claim it was on accident feels pretty lame
Aww thank you Dragoon! Credit goes to Tet and Peach who offered lots of help, advice, and insight :D
@@MertKayKay ❤️ thanks! If I thought you would read it I feel I should’ve written more insightful stuff but never mind 😂 thanks again
The bectal test is literally a Sunday comic bit that has been picked up and used inappropriately. It doesn’t actually test anything.
In the book, Hannibal gave the name Billy Rubin instead, which was based off bilirubin, a compound commonly found in human feces
This is your best work yet, and you know I’ve been around for a lot of it. Can’t wait to see where you go next.
can you do a video on "the fridge is red" I haven't seen ANYONE do a review of it yet and it looks really interesting
Never heard of it, thanks so much for the recommendation Alixia :D
You know that screensaver everyone watches to see when it hits the corner of the screen? Same feeling when it comes to the reflection of ??? lining up just right to make it look like you have glowing green eyes
I always saw bill's character as being a chaotic representation of an obsessive killer first (probably due to said abusive childhood) and a confused fetishest second. I think the reason lecter says he isn't trans, is because his inner desire isn't to become a woman, it's to INHABIT a woman. He no longer wants to be himself at all, and kind of like the totem idea, he wants to steal the femininity of his victims, possibly because he simply was never able to express any form of femininity in his own childhood lest he be abused for it.
Thank you for this video. You put into words, the exact reasoning why I keep coming back to this film.
There is a fourth criteria of the Bechdel test: the women must both be named
Thank you very much! I didn't know that one
I know it its been a year, but I wanted to add that, if I remember correctly, Clarice met Crawford as the guy who like goes to college fairs and says this is why you should fbi or something like that. She wrote a letter to him as well I believe and he didn’t respond, but he kept an eye on her grades and how she was. She was a hard worker and left a good impression on the teachers were introduced to in the book.
Bella was probabaly cut out for reasons of shortening the movie, the movie is kinda already out of order for pacing reasons. Introducing her would mean following through on her death which happens before Clarice goes after Bill’s 1st victim. Clarice only really starts seeing Crawford as a person ig? When she learns about his wife. Without the format of being in her head that reading provides, you can’t really see the difference in how she’s sees him idk how to describe it.
Chilton does mention when Clarice comes to talk to lector about the case file that she needs to hurry bc he has A ticket to something, and Clarice says that at that moment she could see through him, and he knew she could. He is extremely lonely, adding to his aggravations when she rejects even his base advances
Clarice and one of the bug nerds keep up throughout the case and go out at the end of the book. 👍
Sorry I haven’t read it in a little while, so take this w a grain of salt but yea :)
Lambs is a tour de force in critiquing "male gaze" concepts in cinema. One of the simplest tells is how Demme uses the actor's glance into the camera. Men stare directly at camera/Clarisse. The only woman who does this is the interview subject before Clarisse heads off to Bill's. That's pretty interesting to consider in the context of this analysis. The other women who talk to Clarisse use standard continuity editing eyelines.
That's a start, but we're also set up, as the audience to identify with Clarisse. The opening shot of her running from the wood, we see her, the camera tracks over as she passes so we get close enough to feel/contact her, then it follows behind her putting the spectator in her position/point-of-view.
It gets complicated beautifully at the end when we literally take Bill's point of view as Clarisse confronts him. Demme gives us most of a movie confronting and problematizing "the gaze" and the does a virtuoso rug pull by implicating the spectator as the maniac/purveyor of the gaze.
Thanks for the video. It's one of the rare films to have a ton of acclaim but is still under appreciated.
Thank you for making this video. I had a hard time watching this movie because of the representation of Buffalo Bill, and it frustrated me to see that people defend this because ?? Clarice has that throwaway line about trans people being "docile" or whatever in a movie with no other queer characters, and so therefore it's okay?? It's nice to hear a nuanced perspective with trans people in mind, so thank you!
My dad is a regular type blue collar dude and this theme didn't at all go over his head lol. We've watched this movie together many times over the years. One time during that scene with the music box, he said with some awe, "only a woman would think to look there"
I agree that the way they presented Buffalo Bill very clearly pointed to them being trans, in a very harmful way. However, I can also see how Lecter could interpret them as "not really trans" without lying. Maybe Billy just hated themself and they weren't actually experiencing dysmorphia just extreme self hatred and they hit upon the idea of erasing their identity and overwriting it with femininity, which represented power and freedom. This would explain the tuck scene and the euphoria; they were fantasizing about being free of their whole identity (not just their current body) and at the same time enjoying a fetishization of femininity.
If you read the book you would see that theres a whole thing where crawford has to deal with a doctor specialized in trans surgery and whatnot to let him see the history of people rejected to find buffalo bill and the doctor doesnt want to because he knows it will encourage hatred towards trans people from the public but eventually crawford convinces him by saying if he wont show him he might be blamed for another woman dying. The book doesnt portray the doctor as a bad guy but as someone defending a group of innocent but niche people who also happens to get in the way of the investigation because of this. If starling and lecter establishing that transexuals are passive and bill isnt one was just a copout the doctor would have been portrayed negatively. Also saying that its bad that they imply that you need a doctors approval to be trans is bad is just devoid of historical context. Even now you cant get any surgery or irreversable treatment for this unless you are diagnosed with gender dysphoria
this is such an excellent analysis. i learned a ton from it. thank you for making this and sharing it with us!
Thank you 🥰😍
Terrific video!!! Loved the dive into womanhood and the movie. Billy may have been a non-binary person, but that’s because presenting him as a run of the mill sadist wouldn’t have made a splash. Once Billy was othered, it brought a fresh (though false) narrative for a killer’s compulsion. If you look at his actions it becomes clear there’s more going on than Billy becoming a self styled woman. He killed Mrs. Litman for purely due to opportunity and gain. He kept women in the well to make their skin more “roomy”, but also the delight of increasing their suffering and fear. There are other ways he could have dispatched them without keeping them. Bill also plays with Clarice like a cat with a mouse while wearing his night vision goggles. If this was all about getting skins to complete his tailoring project, he would have capped her immediately. As you mentioned, his transformation quest is a point of interest as to who he is, but isn’t the primary reason for his behavior itself.
Someone else in the comments section mentioned that the actor had talked about his choices in a Rolling Stones interview, where he says he studied both serial killers and hung out with transpeople (I THINK at least, it may just have been drag queens which isn't necessarily the same thing?) and decided in his mind that Bill was NOT trans or gay, but a homophobic misogynist who wanted to torture women because that is the overwhelmingly common thread between a LOT of serial killers. It's just that because the film deliberately decides to not show much of Bill's backstory, you just have to read it into his own decisions, and as Mert pointed out- Lecter's own interpretation colors everything we see.
@@goranisacson2502 what? Drag queens and trans women are not the same
@@isabelbelem9062 The article was unclear whether the actor had spent time in the company of trans women or if he had spent time in drag bars- he himself didn't seem to know, so it was hard to discern what he meant. That was the intention of what I wrote, to say that the article itself was ambiguous about what kind of bars he'd hung out at.
Awesome review, I have never considered the points that you brought up here. Also, I never thought that Bill was trans, but instead I had always thought that it was an excuse that he used to justify what he did, to himself.
The movie says that he isn't trans, but I think the real answer was that he was trans, but also a psychopath. The movie was just saying that most trans people are peaceful, but if someone was a psychopath, that could counteract the peaceful nature of trans people.
It Was quite interesting, thanks!
In my opinion, Billy wasn't trans, because He saw becoming a woman as a solution to all his pshychological Problems. But It doesn't seem to me like his problems were, for example, dysphoria or other things wich tell as that person may be trans.
Rather that He was a traumatized, violent person, who was looking for a way to cure his trauma and locked himself to a "surely I'll feel better when I'll become a woman"-solution. He killed not only women But also one of Lecters patients, If I remember it correctly, and this person was trans (or a drag queen, it wasn't specified). That's a very interesting moment in my opinion. Billy just wanted to take something He saw as his only cure and what was his by right.
It's kinda Hard for me to deliver my thoughts since english isn't my native But I hope you'll be able to understand what i'm trying to say 🙃
FUCK YEAH MERTKAYKAY UPLOAD HAPPY NEW YEAR
You really deserves more subscribers. Really interesting video.
It's nice that you talk about something else than videos games (even though a love them), it opens doors of subjets and I'm here for it.
I just discovered your account, I am absolutely in love with your content!
Thanks Belle! Welcome 😁🥹
When talking about the failings of the Bechtel test it’s important to remember that it’s original context was lesbian representation. the fact that there are so few women and that said women only talk about the men in the movie denies even speculation etc etc. so when in Sir Mix-A-Lots song when the two girls look at another girls but it could be said this is a perfect example of passing the Bechtel test….I’m only half joking
VVitch... Autopsy of Jane Doe... Last House on The Left... Halloween.... Teeth.... Rachels Body.... Penny Dreadful... Lady of the Lake.... Siren.... many horrors are focused around violence against women...
Ok I have to push back against the 39:05 take, especially when you consider Buffalo Bill and his whole "making things out of skin" shtick was inspired by Ed Gein, a real life killer who did do that kind of stuff. There's a LOT of serial killers who were gay and targeted boys and men because they hated themselves, their identity, who they were attracted to, and so they took out their frustrations and anger on them. BB is in a similar vein. We're directly told that he hates himself and his identity, no interpretation needed, Lector tells the audience that. Self hatred can be a huge driving factor in serial killers
Lector further talks about how he wasnt born a criminal, but made one by years of violence and abuse, and that is EXTREMELY well documented how people with violent or abusive childhoods can easily grow into violent and/or abusive persons themselves. You go through some of the most notorious or highest body count serial killers in the US, time and time again you'll see these people had shitty childhoods that no doubt played a role in them becoming the monsters that they did.
Also saying Lector is unreliable, I don't know if i agree with that. Everything he says is accurate (even if one makes the argument "its only considered accurate because we don't know Bill's POV", that doesn't mean Lector's unreliable, just that we the audience only get one look). He speaks cryptically but that's just his personality, he's got genius intellect so it would make sense to speak in that way. The only thing he really lies about is Louis Friend being his name, but Lector says repeatedly how much he can't stand Chilton, so it would make sense for him to lie about his identity to stick it to Chilton. After all, look what Crawford said on the way to the funeral home: "if I'd have sent you in there with an agenda, he would've sniffed it out immediately. He would've toyed with you, then turned to stone". And look what he does at the airport, he toys with the Senator and co with the fake name, where will it tickle you?, and "like your suit" stuff
Furthermore Crawford and Starling explicitly seek him out so as to get a psychological profile of BB. He read Starling like a book immediately upon meeting her in that first meeting (the whole "youre from west virginia, you try to hide your accent, all you wanted growing up was to get as far away from there as you can") and sees her desire to save people and work in the FBI as a by-product and result of her PTSD over her father's death and her inability to save the lambs. That first meeting where he says all that stuff about her west virginia roots, she says "you see a lot doctor" and is clearly troubled by his dredging up of that buried stuff. So everything we see in the movie points to him knowing people extremely well and having genius intellect and the things he's saying being accurate.
It's funny how the actor, the director, and the writers all came out and took pains to say, 'this isn't a representation of the gay or trans community as a whole' and this commentator decided to ignore all of that (or determined somehow ??? that it wasn't in good faith) in favor of 'actually, it WAS about trans people all along, despite whatever the creators claim to the contrary'. Like...what??
There's a degree of irony in accusing me of taking work in bad faith in the same breath as taking my work in bad faith
My argument wasn't "this is secretly about trans people and the author is wrong", my argument is "you can't ignore cultural contexts when writing your work, even if you want to, and everything you is influenced by (and influences) a wider context"
@@MertKayKay Im not accusing you of taking it in bad faith, I just disagreed with two points: that a BB type person could not exist (he's fictional, of course he's not realistic, but you know what I mean), and that Hannibal Lector is an unreliable narrator/source of information.
I disagreed with BB being "someone who couldnt exist based upon the parameters set by Bill" because the movie states how he was turned into a monster by years of abuse and violence, which can be seen in real life serial killer's backgrounds commonly. And that he hates his own identity, which is something also that serial killers often had going on, in particular gay male killers because they hated themselves for being gay and hated that that's who they were. Obviously an exact carbon copy of BB with his exact problems and history might not exist in the world, but there's a lot of aspects of his character's personality, but people with violent and abusive childhoods turning into killers, and people who hate their identities turning into killers have and do exist.
And then I disagreed with Hannibal being an unreliable narrator because everything in the movie, from people directly saying so, to the things he says and people's reactions to them, to seeing others with his comments in mind, points to him being an unparalleled genius when it comes to dissecting and analyzing other people. Crawford and Starling go to him explicitly to get a psychological profile of BB. IMO they wouldn't do that if Lector wasn't amazing at reading people and knowing how people worked.
@@MertKayKay I think 'you can't just remove cultural context' loses some steam as an argument when the ENTIRE crux of the 'let us regard Bill as trans' thought experiment requires a) a contemporary understanding of transgenderism that did not exist in 1991, and b) that we purposefully disregard the actor and everyone else who said, 'this character isn't supposed to be a representation of the trans community', even as part of the script itself in case people didn't watch the cast interviews. Like, when we're discussing a 30+ year old property and the fictional characters in it by using terminology and concepts that only entered into the public lexicon in the past decade, cultural context has already been set to the side. Which, I don't think that cultural context is so precious that you can't sometimes do that for the sake of discussion, you know? but the conclusions being drawn should at least make sense on a chronological level instead of like...'if you think about a concept that was only gradually getting around 20 years later, and assume the writers knew about that then, then this scene hits comPLETELY different' ex: Bill's gender euphoria. It makes more sense to me that the conclusions being drawn about trans identity were meant to be a continuation of the theme on 'feminine gaze horror' that we see throughout the film elsewhere, but ofc they couldn't have known what 2024 takes on gender identity would have been. No piece of media lives in a timeless bubble. anyways hopefully some of that is coherent, it's a 2am thought.
Don’t you think that’s why Crawford picks Clarice for the “errand” of interviewing Lecter? Because Chiltern is more likely to grant access to a hot young FBI student he deludely assumes might sleep with him? I don’t know if Crawford is infantilising Clarice per se: in a way what she’s sent to do *is* an errand, at least as far as she can know without giving the game away. There’s an amusing irony in that Chiltern says that Crawford sent Clarice as a kind of honey trap, which says everything about Chiltern and why he falls into it.
Also, you say that Lecter helps Clarice after Miggs is disrespectful to her possibly as an act of affection because Miggs has probably been disrespectful many times and Lecter doesn’t go around killing everyone who is disrespectful. Only Lecter does kill Miggs: he convinces him to swallow his own tongue and choke to death. And killing people who are disrespectful is Lecter’s main schtick. In the book he calls them ‘free range rude’.
This is one of my favorite movies…and I always felt this is one of the movies that correctly portrays women in a predominantly male industry like law enforcement…each scene where she is oggled, intimidated, underestimated always brings me back when I was fresh out of college…
With regards to Jack Crawford’s intention with Clarice, I always interpreted it him picking her because she is an attractive young woman that could for a bit probably have Hannibal lower his defenses and give her insight…he is almost like a father who may have inconsistently underestimated and overestimated her interchangeable, acting like a father and sometimes indifferent enough not to realize the danger he is putting her in…i think it was implicit that she is an exceptional person, maybe by a lot because if you are a woman you have to work harder than your counterparts for you to even be noticed by superiors and maybe that is what made Crawford notice…contrary, I never felt Crawford ever take advantage of her (thank god!)
This movie was really good & stuck with me as a kid (gave me a fear of man eating people for many years until I realised cannibals were not around every corner lol) & I enjoyed the plot. Never thought about the womanhood thing tho, kinda disappointed in myself for not noticing it until now. Oh well I am always happy to learn & re-think things.
I always assumed that Lector was at some point Billie's psychiatrist, which is why people went to him as an "expert".
It's still a great film even with its outdated believes & pseudo-psychological ideas on serial killers & transgendered people. Buffalo Bill was a creepy character & i sometimes I quote him (& Lector) to my brother to wierd him out cos hes never seen the film.
Ah-- that second rule of the bechdel test was incorrect! It's actually that the women must be named, not that they speak to each other; that rule is accounted for in rule three.
As a vg nerd im not very good at picking apart movies. I can’t say I knew the true text of this movie but I actually love the movie more now. Great video
Thank you Magnus! Glad to have successfully shared the love
So many good ideas, so much technical and thematic brilliance - from both the novel and film - but it utterly lets itself down with probably the most enduring transmisogynistic caricature in history. I knew that I was trans since I was about... eleven or twelve, maybe? I read this book (and saw the film) at about thirteen or fourteen, and it profoundly sickened me. No. Of course I interpreted Billy as trans - because I'm trans - but *I'm* not a monster, surely? *I'm* not a freak. I don't hurt and reduce women to totems. And I'm sure not a "man in a dress". But it made me... ashamed nontheless. When I was a young teenager, there was no positive media representation or support for me at all. So I... buried it away. I didn't want to be seen like that. I didn't want any *slight* resemblance to this monstrous character, that now I understand to be a harmful caricature, but sure didn't at the time. It was trans representation to a repressed, closeted trans woman, and it had a real impact.
Nowadays the specter of a badly-written villain still hangs over the trans community, being the affirmation and darling of the terf groups who want to hurt us - because of one guy's ignorant fiction based off of discredited Blanchard theories. It's profoundly gross. It still hurts.
A mess, really.
Excellent video, and thank you for articulating these frustrations.
Sorry to nitpick, but you brought up the Bechdel test as part of your analysis of how Clarice is outnumbered in the movie and I wanted to make sure you knew that the Bechdel test falls so short because it isn't actually intended as a tool for feminist analysis. It was a joke from the comic strip "Dykes to Watch Out For" by Allison Bechdel about her three criteria to pretend if a movie had lesbian characters; although it holds up as a marker of just how outnumbered women are in media.
False! It is a tool strictly with the purpose of segmenting Sir Mix-a-Lot's music into "Bechdel Approved" and "Critical Bechdel Failure"
but yes of course :D
I do say, when I originally clicked on this video I was anxious that there'd be some TERF stuff in it, but it was actually more calming to find that -- no, there wasn't, none of it at all.
I've never watched Silence of the Lambs as of right now, but I do remember that my mom always had it on her bookshelf with the cover facing towards the front. The moth over the woman's lips always scared me shitless as a kid. I had asked her what it was about once and she just said that it was a horror book with death. I never even realized that Buffalo Bill came from SOTL, so whenever I heard people bring Billie up I just assumed they were, get this, from Texas Chainsaw Massacre.
Yes, I confused Leatherface with Billie.
Now imagine the protags calling Leatherface Billie
God y’all are pathetic
Awwww man I love this movie. Glad I finally got the time and the mental capacity to watch this video through great stuff as per usual
Aww I'm glad to see you here wndr 🥰
I'm no further than 10 seconds in but I have to say, very based thumbnail. My pride in the females of my homeland swells.
meaty meaty meat
@MertKayKay We used to shout this exact thing at a teacher with an epic meathead in the same vein as 'the mole' bit from Austin Powers. Until one time when I got carried away and the rest of the lads had already shut up. I picked a lot of litter that week...
Thanks for reminding me how monumentally ruh-tarded I was in school. Also the cool videos, guess they're alright too.