Thank you so much for this! Now I remember that 10 years ago I practiced this method in Silent Hunter 3 The Grey Wolves, but I completely forgot about it! Thanks again:) For the torpedo speed of 30 knots, the angle change for each knot of the target speed is decreased or increased by 2 degrees (if my geometry is correct) - 10 dg for 5 knots, 12 dg for 6 kn, 14 dg for 7 kn, 16 dg for 8 kn, 20 dg for 10 kn. etc.
Awesome video! One question: Where would "Auswanderung" play a role in the "Ausdampfen" approach you have shown? Another question: how would you approach a convoy only with hydrophone contacts? The 4 bearing method wasnt invented back then, so how did the German Kriegsmarine do it? Just another question: When the periscope and UZO had no Stabilizers like Gyroscopes, how did they manage to do the ausdampfen? I tried this with 100% realism in Uboat 1.0 and the periscope is way to shaky to precisely follow a parallel course for some time.
@@YagamiKo thanks! Auswanderung means a change in bearing. There’s a procedure that was performed by surface ships called “Auswanderungsverfahren” that involves computing a speed based on change in bearing over time. German surface ships had a very precise device to be able to measure bearing change and compute a relatively accurate speed, in combination with a rangefinder. This method wasn’t used so much on U-boats they didn’t have any such device. Though a method similar to this can be performed as a confirmation based on estimated values right before the shot. I go through this in some of my other videos. Correct, the 4-bearing method is also called Spiess TMA, that was a method developed in the US in the 1950s as submarine warfare was transitioning to sub versus sub, and passive listening only. Typically, U-boats would chase hydrophone bearings down if they needed to rely on the hydrophone (not typical as hydrophone performance was vastly inferior in real life to the game’s super hydrophones). But also remember, they would have friendly units, including other U-boats, send bearing signals, using the radio direction finder, to allow other boats in the group to home in on the signals to form a pack around the convoy.
@@m.hamacher7881 One additional question: Why did you overhaul your target and shoot from the port side of the ship? Wouldn't it be easier to just continue the parallel course of the ship, then turn port side and hit the ship on its starboard? The process of overhauling and then crossing the enemies course and then firing from the other side seems very risky and unnecessary complicated to me.
@@YagamiKoit’s only dangerous if you are very careless. In the game it is extremely easy to stay out of the enemy’s visibility, it is very forgiving. Getting to zero AOB provides a course confirmation, and allows you to pick the side you want to attack from. Doesn’t matter (yet) in game, but best to approach from out of the sun during the day and from the dark side during the night - if and when they make these considerations a thing, you’ll have developed good habits.
Thanks for your videos, they’re a huge help. If you haven’t got it yet, ‘realistic navigation’ mod will solve a lot of your issues with the map and provides a handy odometer tool! A video request: I don’t know what the historical procedure to get from an initial hydrophone contact to Ausdampfen.. I read elsewhere you don’t like the 4-bearing method so I guess that’s not historical, so did they try and calculate an intercept point or just head straight towards it? Thanks!
Thank you! I have been enjoying the real navigation mod, that is imo one of the most significant mods made for the game to date. To the extent something was first detected by hydrophone (which was rare since most time was spent surfaced apart from an hour or two a day for trim dive / torpedo maintenance), they simply ran down the bearing. Hydrophones are significantly overpowered in games, targets were more likely to be spotted on a clear day (smoke, masts at 30 km) than heard on the generally-unreliable hydrophones.
Thanks for the reply, good to know I was just overcomplicating the issue with the hydrophone ;) I haven’t got through your whole list yet so maybe you’ve already done this, but what id really love to see are historical techniques employed against an escorted convoy (any sim, I can adapt techniques to UBoat easily enough), because at the moment I really don’t feel like I’m dealing with them in an authentic way but I’m unsure what I should be doing differently, if you made a video for reference I’d be eternally grateful! Most convoy vids are very ‘gamey’
@@m.hamacher7881 I would love to see a video of what a standard attack looks like using the real navigation mod. I recognize you do not need the map for most (if not all) of the historical techniques you showcase, but seeing it all come together in one video (real navigation + TDC) would be both enjoyable and informational. Thanks for the great videos. Happy Hunting.
Hi, do you know if there is any first hand historical accounts of the electric engines being quieter on the surface than diesels? The developer is appealing for such on a post I made. I know the uboat commanders hand book claims it was, and to me it makes sense that it was. However there is debate over whether the sound of the propeller and cavitation was louder anyway : thus making not difference
I don’t recall seeing any specific examples but it is safe to assume they were quieter and that the commanders’ handbook is accurate there. That said, I also haven’t seen too many examples of operating on electrics when attacking, even from within (occasionally but not many examples) in KTBs. There is so much ambient noise (the sea, merchants etc) that it would be very difficult to pick up U-boat engines or motors. Mostly I see examples of electrics on the surface when entering/leaving the berth (easier to reverse on electrics, and many U-boats had non-reversible diesels anyway), and operating in confined areas like say a fjord, where the diesels could be heard with the naked ear.
@@m.hamacher7881 Thank you If you're interested, the developer is currently very active on the forums, and is listening to constructive criticism. Would be great to have your voice there
Dear Sir! Thank you for your deep explanation! It was very interesting. Two questions raised, however. literature 2) How were they measuring the distance they traveled while trying to guesstimate the speed? Or, I guess, once the speed was guesstimated, distance could've been taken of knots itself...
@@m.hamacher7881 or as another option, you can find distance, knowing speed and time. Like in your example, if you match the 7 kts speed for 6 minutes, you can determine that you travelled 7 cables per 6 minutes.
@@m.hamacher7881 I understand the determination of 7kt because we measured a distance traveled over a known time. What I don't understand is why the torpedo circle of 3 is 30. It seemed to me just an arbitrary line. I'm sure there was a reasoning for it, it just went over my head completely. 😅
@@grimnar6725 when doing vector analysis, the units of the legs don’t matter, they are all relative. So you can use three or 30 or 300 or 3000 or whatever for the torpedo speed vector, as long as you use the same relative units for the other legs. So if you use 300 for the torpedo speed vector because that scale is convenient, and the target speed is 7, then you should use 70 for that, and so forth. Keep in mind this is all just to demonstrate the theory of straight torpedo shooting, it’s not necessary to do it in the game.
Very interesting, thanks for taking the time to do these videos. One thing I don’t understand though is the need to centre the periscope at 0 degrees after firing with the scope on 14 degrees? Why move the scope? Is it to ensure the torpedoes run straight, ie: “aiming with the boat “?” Would the torpedoes turn to 14 degrees if you didn’t centre? Did I just answer my own question? Lol. I’m new to this, so trying to understand the relationship between the scope and torpedo . With nothing entered in the computer, I assumed they would shoot straight out at 30kts and 1.5m depth…….I’ll have to look into it further.
That’s exactly right. At the time I made this video, in vanilla, if entering no target data, the torpedo would go where you point your scope. I haven’t played in a while so not sure if it’s been changed.
Hello Sir thank you for your enriching videos could you make one on the management of the crew and officer because having tried several methods it remains confusing for me
Liked and subbed because you are a SH Captain. I'm quite curious how long would it take for them (real U-boat captains) to stalk and attack a ship, what are the % rate of a successful "hunt". Because the way I see it, we are definitely blessed with time compression, the time you got their speed already took 15mins, not to mention weather, time of day and luck (intel).
Thanks! Even a single ship engagement could take hours, especially a day engagement where just the mast tips were sighted. Single ships tended to travel fast, and so overtaking was a time-consuming affair. Also Ausdampfen (what I do in the video, matching course and speed) could take hours. One of the war diaries of U-505 when she was under the command of Axel Loewe describes them doing this for about 3 hours (!) in front of a prospective target (which turned out to be a neutral). It was also zigzagging though. You are correct - very much a function of luck. At the ranges corresponding to seeing just the mast tips (about 25-30 km or so), one course change could ruin the prospects of attack.
@@m.hamacher7881 Amazing.. I just tried Ausdampfen, because i caught them around 23:00... and sunlight was at 9:00.. I could no scope on SH 5, but on this.. ugh.. I just followed them till I could get visual lol
Hiya, something doesn't work for me. When my target is at say 10 degrees to the right of my bow (which I calculated), I then point my scope at 0 degrees and fire. But...my torpedo does not go straight ahead but at a 10 degree angle to the left of my bow so it misses the ship by passing in front of it. What am I doing wrong? Thanks in advance. :)
@@florynhollander7766 Hi, if you are using the TDC (or inputting target data into the UI), it is calculating a gyro angle for you and you must point the scope at the target. If you are doing “no TDC” lead angle shooting like I show in the video, you must set target speed to 0 in the UI (or TDC), then fire when the target crosses the bearing you computed.
@@m.hamacher7881 HIya, I hope you don't mind me asking another question... I am not a math wonder (far from it) but I do want to get this right. In your example you point your boat at 102 degrees and fire the torpedo when the ship is at 14 degrees to your right. So am I correct that the torpedo hits at a 76 degree angle because the ship is at a 90 degree angle when facing 14 degree to the right and firing the torpedo? (I hope I explain this correctly.) Thanks. 🙂
@@florynhollander7766 this is correct, you end up with a slightly acute impact angle. This is generally advantageous, since slightly acute impact angles can absorb AOB errors better (in other words, there’s a range of impact angles over which changes in AOB have little impact on the lead angle, and that range happens to be slightly behind a 90 impact angle - should he change course while the torpedo is en route this may help you still hit). And so shooting when the target presents a 90 AOB insures you have a slightly acute impact angle, as well as provides a good visual confirmation of the AOB, since 90 is easy to recognize. This is why the historical commander’s handbook recommended shooting at AOB 90 for all but very fast targets. When the target is fast, you end up with an impact angle that is much smaller, which then presents the problem of the torpedo not having as “wide” of a target to hit. In this case it’s better to shoot when the AOB is somewhat less than 90 (the handbook recommends 60).
Thank you so much for this! Now I remember that 10 years ago I practiced this method in Silent Hunter 3 The Grey Wolves, but I completely forgot about it! Thanks again:)
For the torpedo speed of 30 knots, the angle change for each knot of the target speed is decreased or increased by 2 degrees (if my geometry is correct) - 10 dg for 5 knots, 12 dg for 6 kn, 14 dg for 7 kn, 16 dg for 8 kn, 20 dg for 10 kn. etc.
You are very welcome sir!
Thanks for your work buddy, sharing knowledge is always a blessing!
You’re welcome, glad this could help!
this is one of the best games ever
Awesome video!
One question: Where would "Auswanderung" play a role in the "Ausdampfen" approach you have shown?
Another question: how would you approach a convoy only with hydrophone contacts? The 4 bearing method wasnt invented back then, so how did the German Kriegsmarine do it?
Just another question: When the periscope and UZO had no Stabilizers like Gyroscopes, how did they manage to do the ausdampfen? I tried this with 100% realism in Uboat 1.0 and the periscope is way to shaky to precisely follow a parallel course for some time.
@@YagamiKo thanks! Auswanderung means a change in bearing. There’s a procedure that was performed by surface ships called “Auswanderungsverfahren” that involves computing a speed based on change in bearing over time. German surface ships had a very precise device to be able to measure bearing change and compute a relatively accurate speed, in combination with a rangefinder. This method wasn’t used so much on U-boats they didn’t have any such device. Though a method similar to this can be performed as a confirmation based on estimated values right before the shot. I go through this in some of my other videos.
Correct, the 4-bearing method is also called Spiess TMA, that was a method developed in the US in the 1950s as submarine warfare was transitioning to sub versus sub, and passive listening only. Typically, U-boats would chase hydrophone bearings down if they needed to rely on the hydrophone (not typical as hydrophone performance was vastly inferior in real life to the game’s super hydrophones). But also remember, they would have friendly units, including other U-boats, send bearing signals, using the radio direction finder, to allow other boats in the group to home in on the signals to form a pack around the convoy.
@@m.hamacher7881
One additional question:
Why did you overhaul your target and shoot from the port side of the ship? Wouldn't it be easier to just continue the parallel course of the ship, then turn port side and hit the ship on its starboard? The process of overhauling and then crossing the enemies course and then firing from the other side seems very risky and unnecessary complicated to me.
@@YagamiKoit’s only dangerous if you are very careless. In the game it is extremely easy to stay out of the enemy’s visibility, it is very forgiving. Getting to zero AOB provides a course confirmation, and allows you to pick the side you want to attack from. Doesn’t matter (yet) in game, but best to approach from out of the sun during the day and from the dark side during the night - if and when they make these considerations a thing, you’ll have developed good habits.
Thanks for your videos, they’re a huge help. If you haven’t got it yet, ‘realistic navigation’ mod will solve a lot of your issues with the map and provides a handy odometer tool!
A video request: I don’t know what the historical procedure to get from an initial hydrophone contact to Ausdampfen.. I read elsewhere you don’t like the 4-bearing method so I guess that’s not historical, so did they try and calculate an intercept point or just head straight towards it? Thanks!
Thank you! I have been enjoying the real navigation mod, that is imo one of the most significant mods made for the game to date.
To the extent something was first detected by hydrophone (which was rare since most time was spent surfaced apart from an hour or two a day for trim dive / torpedo maintenance), they simply ran down the bearing. Hydrophones are significantly overpowered in games, targets were more likely to be spotted on a clear day (smoke, masts at 30 km) than heard on the generally-unreliable hydrophones.
Thanks for the reply, good to know I was just overcomplicating the issue with the hydrophone ;)
I haven’t got through your whole list yet so maybe you’ve already done this, but what id really love to see are historical techniques employed against an escorted convoy (any sim, I can adapt techniques to UBoat easily enough), because at the moment I really don’t feel like I’m dealing with them in an authentic way but I’m unsure what I should be doing differently, if you made a video for reference I’d be eternally grateful! Most convoy vids are very ‘gamey’
@@saintanikk yessir, it’s long overdue, I hope to make one here soon.
@@m.hamacher7881 I would love to see a video of what a standard attack looks like using the real navigation mod. I recognize you do not need the map for most (if not all) of the historical techniques you showcase, but seeing it all come together in one video (real navigation + TDC) would be both enjoyable and informational.
Thanks for the great videos.
Happy Hunting.
Hi, do you know if there is any first hand historical accounts of the electric engines being quieter on the surface than diesels?
The developer is appealing for such on a post I made.
I know the uboat commanders hand book claims it was, and to me it makes sense that it was. However there is debate over whether the sound of the propeller and cavitation was louder anyway : thus making not difference
I don’t recall seeing any specific examples but it is safe to assume they were quieter and that the commanders’ handbook is accurate there. That said, I also haven’t seen too many examples of operating on electrics when attacking, even from within (occasionally but not many examples) in KTBs. There is so much ambient noise (the sea, merchants etc) that it would be very difficult to pick up U-boat engines or motors.
Mostly I see examples of electrics on the surface when entering/leaving the berth (easier to reverse on electrics, and many U-boats had non-reversible diesels anyway), and operating in confined areas like say a fjord, where the diesels could be heard with the naked ear.
@@m.hamacher7881 Thank you
If you're interested, the developer is currently very active on the forums, and is listening to constructive criticism. Would be great to have your voice there
Dear Sir! Thank you for your deep explanation! It was very interesting.
Two questions raised, however.
literature
2) How were they measuring the distance they traveled while trying to guesstimate the speed? Or, I guess, once the speed was guesstimated, distance could've been taken of knots itself...
Very good question! They had a pit log, basically an odometer, one in the control room on the knotmeter itself and a repeater in the tower.
@@m.hamacher7881 or as another option, you can find distance, knowing speed and time. Like in your example, if you match the 7 kts speed for 6 minutes, you can determine that you travelled 7 cables per 6 minutes.
@@daknyaz that’s absolutely right
@@m.hamacher7881 I understand the determination of 7kt because we measured a distance traveled over a known time. What I don't understand is why the torpedo circle of 3 is 30. It seemed to me just an arbitrary line. I'm sure there was a reasoning for it, it just went over my head completely. 😅
@@grimnar6725 when doing vector analysis, the units of the legs don’t matter, they are all relative. So you can use three or 30 or 300 or 3000 or whatever for the torpedo speed vector, as long as you use the same relative units for the other legs. So if you use 300 for the torpedo speed vector because that scale is convenient, and the target speed is 7, then you should use 70 for that, and so forth. Keep in mind this is all just to demonstrate the theory of straight torpedo shooting, it’s not necessary to do it in the game.
Very interesting, thanks for taking the time to do these videos. One thing I don’t understand though is the need to centre the periscope at 0 degrees after firing with the scope on 14 degrees? Why move the scope? Is it to ensure the torpedoes run straight, ie: “aiming with the boat “?” Would the torpedoes turn to 14 degrees if you didn’t centre? Did I just answer my own question? Lol. I’m new to this, so trying to understand the relationship between the scope and torpedo . With nothing entered in the computer, I assumed they would shoot straight out at 30kts and 1.5m depth…….I’ll have to look into it further.
That’s exactly right. At the time I made this video, in vanilla, if entering no target data, the torpedo would go where you point your scope. I haven’t played in a while so not sure if it’s been changed.
@@m.hamacher7881 Thanks very much for replying 👍
Hello Sir thank you for your enriching videos could you make one on the management of the crew and officer because having tried several methods it remains confusing for me
Thanks! Yes definitely, was planning on making one on how to set it up somewhat historically.
Liked and subbed because you are a SH Captain. I'm quite curious how long would it take for them (real U-boat captains) to stalk and attack a ship, what are the % rate of a successful "hunt". Because the way I see it, we are definitely blessed with time compression, the time you got their speed already took 15mins, not to mention weather, time of day and luck (intel).
Thanks! Even a single ship engagement could take hours, especially a day engagement where just the mast tips were sighted. Single ships tended to travel fast, and so overtaking was a time-consuming affair. Also Ausdampfen (what I do in the video, matching course and speed) could take hours. One of the war diaries of U-505 when she was under the command of Axel Loewe describes them doing this for about 3 hours (!) in front of a prospective target (which turned out to be a neutral). It was also zigzagging though. You are correct - very much a function of luck. At the ranges corresponding to seeing just the mast tips (about 25-30 km or so), one course change could ruin the prospects of attack.
@@m.hamacher7881 Amazing.. I just tried Ausdampfen, because i caught them around 23:00... and sunlight was at 9:00.. I could no scope on SH 5, but on this.. ugh.. I just followed them till I could get visual lol
Hiya, something doesn't work for me. When my target is at say 10 degrees to the right of my bow (which I calculated), I then point my scope at 0 degrees and fire. But...my torpedo does not go straight ahead but at a 10 degree angle to the left of my bow so it misses the ship by passing in front of it. What am I doing wrong?
Thanks in advance. :)
@@florynhollander7766 Hi, if you are using the TDC (or inputting target data into the UI), it is calculating a gyro angle for you and you must point the scope at the target. If you are doing “no TDC” lead angle shooting like I show in the video, you must set target speed to 0 in the UI (or TDC), then fire when the target crosses the bearing you computed.
@@m.hamacher7881 Thanks for your swift answer! But I think I can only set the target speed when I lock the ship. I don't want to lock the ship, do I?
@@florynhollander7766 if using the TDC yourself it won’t matter. If using the UI (which I don’t recommend tbh), yes.
@@m.hamacher7881 HIya, I hope you don't mind me asking another question... I am not a math wonder (far from it) but I do want to get this right. In your example you point your boat at 102 degrees and fire the torpedo when the ship is at 14 degrees to your right. So am I correct that the torpedo hits at a 76 degree angle because the ship is at a 90 degree angle when facing 14 degree to the right and firing the torpedo? (I hope I explain this correctly.) Thanks. 🙂
@@florynhollander7766 this is correct, you end up with a slightly acute impact angle. This is generally advantageous, since slightly acute impact angles can absorb AOB errors better (in other words, there’s a range of impact angles over which changes in AOB have little impact on the lead angle, and that range happens to be slightly behind a 90 impact angle - should he change course while the torpedo is en route this may help you still hit). And so shooting when the target presents a 90 AOB insures you have a slightly acute impact angle, as well as provides a good visual confirmation of the AOB, since 90 is easy to recognize. This is why the historical commander’s handbook recommended shooting at AOB 90 for all but very fast targets. When the target is fast, you end up with an impact angle that is much smaller, which then presents the problem of the torpedo not having as “wide” of a target to hit. In this case it’s better to shoot when the AOB is somewhat less than 90 (the handbook recommends 60).
I cannot turn on the compass and speed by looking through UZO
How do you get the engine temp? Mine doesn’t have that
I actually never noticed that! My guess is it is likely from the realistic diesel smoke mod.
thank you
Your awesome
OK Alt THX
Too complicated
Great so you couldn't just tell us how to without a mod? Mention that in the video title
Sorry to break it to you, but practically anything realistically done in this game needs a mod. It’s not there yet.