I think it’s such an important topic to bring up so thank you for doing this! I think something that is also really sad is when I see fans get into financial troubles because they want to support idols. (Sadly I see it happen way too much) It’s a really toxic cycle of making the working class poorer so the upper class can get richer.
This was an extremely interesting video and you are so well spoken and clear with your thoughts! I really do appreciate how much effort you put into this despite how difficult it is to fit everything in in an organized manner, so thank you so much for posting! I really do agree with this entire thing and though I've been a kpop fan for a much shorter time than many, and there's a lot more about the industry I'm still ignorant to, I have definitely have had all of these thoughts and doubts that you covered in your video over and over again. When it comes to collecting I so often have that self-doubt where I second guess why I'm spending my money this way and how I should be more responsible with my disposable income. It's such a back and forth between that struggle and allowing myself to have material possessions that bring me joy. Like I know companies are creating x amount of albums versions and x amount of photocards solely to make more money and boost album sales, but I buy every version anyway! And I want every single pc of my bias because it brings me joy to collect. It's exactly the same itch I was scratching when I collected makeup in my teens or neopet cards when I was in elementary school. The more financial freedom I have as I grow older, the more expensive my hobbies become What I really appreciated about this video was the focus in your final points about wishing the general community was more aware and more critical about the content we are consuming. We have every right to consume what the idol industry is creating for us, but we could have so much more autonomy over how they exploit us if we were more aware and maybe even more cynical for lack of a better word. There's an intention and a purpose to every single thing these companies choose to edit together and show us. Nothing they share is 100% Candid and natural. It's important for us to always remember everything is acurated narrative that they want us to believe in. Sometimes I wish I could just call these companies out on their bullshit when I watch some of those behind the scenes videos. And like you said in your video, it does not mean everything is a fabrication and that all idols are just acting and are never exploited for their labor. But the fact remains that a narrative is being spun from these idols' real lives and there's just something so icky about it when I think about it too hard. But I still consume it and I still give them my money, because I'm a human being just like you said I'm a grown adult who is fortunate enough to have a lifestyle where I can afford to spend her disposable income on kpop, but I constantly constantly fight with myself in my mind about the truth of what I'm feeding my money into. But that is such a large problem in society that reaches far outside of just the kpop industry so it is so overwhelming to think about sometimes. I really do think it's beneficial to narrow in on the fans within the community like you covered in your video. How it affects young peoples mentality and sense of self worth is also extremely important. And you've provided such a great reminder to us all to not let idols' internet personas and the personas of our fellow fans make us feel we are not as worthy or talented or not rich enough. We really can't dismantle the establishment of these huge corporations that are basically more Amazon's and Disney's, but we can adjust our mentality and our attitudes on social media and lift each other up and support our favorite artists by whatever means we are comfortable with without any shame Easier said than done for sure Oh man I probably got so nonsensical with this comment and I basically just wrote a diary entry 😅 and I know I didn't even touch the exploitation of young trainees and that whole side of the industry but I have to stop at some point Apologies for not really bringing anything new to the conversation I was mostly just agreeing with this video, but it's nice to commiserate and find others who have the same outlook as you Again thank you for your video and all your videos in general you have an amazing channel!
Love this comment but especially the part about how we can't dismantle a corporation, but we can stick together and lift each other up as fans. At the end of the day what IS in our control is how we treat each other, and I wish that was more of where the focus was. Thank you so much for the long and thoughtful comment, it was a great read
This is seriously a video I wish every kpop fan could watch. Especially the younger fans who have no financial or class consciousness. I wish people understood that a majority of people in any creative arts industry are not more talented than others, they just have more time to dedicate to their hobbies and their parents can pay for them to receive opportunities. It kills me inside when I see fans defending exorbitant merch, concert and album prices with the defence its 'supporting the artist' when they don't need more money and a majority of the revenue goes to the company anyway.
Yes I think I forgot to get into that whole side of it--the stuff with fans defending company decisions. It is a very frustrating sentiment to run into. Companies aren't releasing outrageously priced merch for the benefit of the idols, it's just another way for them to profit off the idol's image
Such good and interesting thoughts! I am not someone who thinks about the "deeper things" very often and this got me thinking for sure!! Thanks for taking the time to make this video and share all of this info and your thoughts with us. 💖 Also, I just watched an older video of yours and found out you were a '94 liner too.. so hello fellow 94' liner 🥰
You are so right about how people who idolize celebrities and for us kpop idols, try and say that they deserve everything that they have and need more. There are people out there like Healthcare workers and factory workers who most times work harder then celebrities. I hope that the kpop idols can take care of themselves with cooking and cleaning and doing laundry because they won't always be a kpop idol and they will have to teach their future children if they have any how to take care of themselves. I understand that most groups go from rock bottom like bts and especially the companies that don't have any popular groups. They do have to work for what they earn and how they do live. Kpop idols do go through struggles especially. For me, collecting is a hobby and I don't want to buy every little thing they come out with. To me, the photocards I collect and the albums I buy are memories of their story as a group and memories as being a part of their Fandom. To me it's like capturing a photo or scrapbooking. Sorry for the long comment but I loved this type of video and I think you should make more videos like this🥰
hello there! this is the first time I've stumbled across your channel and I just wanted to say that this was a fantastic video with a phenomenal discussion at it's core. you are so well spoken and you've touched on so many things that I wish I could have spoken about in my videos to help viewers and people who comment on them understand all of the factors that tie into having a kpop photocard collection, or any collection for that matter. Our upbringing / growth after going to college/university and getting a full time salaried job is so similar and I really related with the topics discussed here! definitely subscribing! keep up the amazing work! you also have a wonderful collection!
what an amazing video. please make more of these! i love your perspective! i completely agree that the main reason these k-pop companies are getting away with all their morally ambiguous practices is that their target impressionable teens or rather mentally unstable introverts with a lot of free time. as you said, there’s nothing wrong with falling for these idols, because their image is purposefully crafted to be irresistible and relatable to literally every kind of person out there (that’s why the idols themselves often get associated with animals or are given literal adjectives to describe their personal brand), so it only proves you’re human if you eventually start to care for any one of them and their well-being. i do however wish people would be more critical when it comes to k-pop. it’s one thing to like an artist and consume their content appropriately according to your own needs and time etc. but what a lot of stans do is they dedicated their entire personalities and years of their lives to being a stan of said artist, which will later have its reprecussions. there’s also a big herd mentality problem in the k-pop stan world, that’s why a lot of younger people will jump on bandwagons and commit to things like streaming, having time-demanding fan accounts and spending money on collections without considering at what (or rather who’s) cost they’re doing it. and all of this is made worse by the fact that majority of the fans are teens who are literally unable to see the bigger picture or fully understand the impact their words and actions have on other fans and on the group as a whole, because they’re simply too young to comprehend. it’s honestly kind of scary how perfectly the entertainment has it planned out? like there’s a lot wrong with it but it’s all so appealing you almost can’t fully leave once you’re in it lol.
i 100% have those thoughts of like “what am i doing spending my money on this stuff?” especially bc i dont make enough money to even collect the way i want to so i’m just doing my best going paycheck to paycheck and i really don’t recommend doing it like that but i can’t get myself to stop since collecting is one of the only things i ever really look forward to 😅 but it’s so hard bc i want to be able to save up for “more important things” like vacations or a laptop or gaming consoles or the ability to move out.. it’s hard
Thank you! I've been a fan of Kpop since 2010 and you have no idea how badly I needed to hear this. I took a hiatus from Kpop after 2NE1 disbanded and then jumped back in while coping with the way Covid changed life. Being a Kpop fan seems like a completely different ball game, and I got swept away with it. I admit that I've been letting the pressure of having to DO and BUY in order to consider myself a REAL fan get to me. This video helped me see that pressure for what it is while feeling like a friendly, albeit eye opening, conversation.
Another top tier video made by you once again! This is definitely one of my favorite videos you have ever made so far and I can tell I'm going to be rewatching this a lot. On the point that you made about feeling sometimes like just dropping(or selling) everything and moving on with your life is something I always think about with my own kpop collection. For me I'm the type of person that if I don't "push" myself to buy or do something that I haven't done before, it can take me years to actually do it even if its something that I'm "dying" to do (and similarly, if I take a long enough break, I stop having the feeling of continuing). So whenever I think about my collection I know for a fact that if I just get rid of everything, I'm not going to care enough to buy it back but I also know that not only does my collection make me happy, I get a lot of use out of it (mostly every other day) so its justifiable for me to keep on going.
Wow I very much relate to that, even if I really want to do something it takes so much effort for me to get started or actually do it, lol. Even starting this channel I thought about it for months before I actually did it. Now that I think about it, I do think having a channel has definitely fueled or at least sustained my collection more than I would have if I didn't have this. I do really enjoy my collection and flip through it and rearrange it and stuff on my own, but I wonder whether I would have ever given into those momentary "I should just quit" thoughts if I didn't also have this channel and the interaction with commenters as like an added bonus to keep me going
God, the "should I stop collecting?" part hit me. It's not like I can't afford it but collecting has started to become like a drug addiction. I've started "seriously" collecting just 2 years ago and the difference in my bank account omg... For now, it makes me super happy and I really enjoy it! But sometimes I do think about how now I'm like 'should I go out to eat/on a trip?' cause I wanna save up for comebacks. Also how I'm not really saving up that much anymore (pobs ruined my life). Maybe one day I will sell everything but for now I really do love my collection and the happy serotin boosts collecting gives me :c
Oof I totally think about that as well >_< will I totally sell everything one day? Definitely a big possibility. But like you I am happy going on like this for now. There's no way to predict what I will be like and how I will think in the future so I try not to dwell on it too much
@@JuneSun I think that we never know what will happen in life, and maybe we're going to regret it later but for now, it's something that makes us happy so we should just live day by day and enjoy it!
This really became my favorite video, i think if you could, talking more about this would be such a great opener for others I definitely agree with that background, like there are many who of course dont have the same standing, but thinking about it, alot of them are from normal/working class where they can afford to welcome and achieve their dreams, many do afterschool extra classes to learn different things, English, piano, and popularly taekwondo to in a way improve themselves. This isn't about an idol, but i remember watching some different videos and there's many parents who take up many more jobs just to provide their kids with these type of things to improve and make their lives in their terms much better. In terms of collecting, i definitely do have alot of times where i "realize" what am i doing with my money, things like i could have gotten myself this instead or invested, saved, spent differently, there are times where i cant spend on expensive material things i can show because my first thought it, maybe i should get more cards to finish my collection. When i have those thoughts i go through the i should sell everything or just keep the cards that i like the most so i can make my money back or spend it on something else, or invest in a certain collection, i think speciality for collectors that do different members or are bigger into collecting different idols, it gets very stressful. Of course everyone has the liberty to do whatever they want with their collection but once you get into it, sometimes you lose track and just like others you end up collecting everything because someone elses collecting is much bigger. Cards for specific idols cost so much and if you personally stan them and decide to collect them, whether its impulsive buying or something, you end up buying these cards and it really racks up. I think that last part of the talk, generally teens and adults look for something to spend time on and in a way get away from their normal life. When i was younger being into my idol back then selena gomez i could escape whatever i was thinking and i could really just be in my own world. In a way, kpop or any entertainment really is, you go into it sometimes hard because you escape with this so then you spend money and time on it sometimes unhealthily because you feel compelled to because they made you feel good, or you feel like that is your comfort space which is respected but it really make you realize wow its deeper than you think I agree lastly, fans force fans to do more than what they have to, i dont want to spend more than 4 minutes watching what a mv is and yet theres people who force? To make you watch it more because if not you're not really a fan, i dont want to go into it too much but its so sad that an environment with just FANS can be so toxic when it's really just a pass time/hobby.
Yes you're right about kpop as a form of escapism, I didn't even get into that aspect and it's a huge part of the draw of kpop to a lot of people. And completely agreed on the last point. As fans of kpop we are more similar than we are different so it's a shame to see some fan environments be so full of fighting and guilt-tripping
This video was recommended to me & I am very glad it was, thank you for taking the time to talk about these topics. Everyone always wants to see the good glamorous parts of the industry & we all know the bad side exists but still at the end of the day support it, as any other industry with our time & money. I am a pandemic kpop fan I guess and started buying albums in 2020 and collecting photocards really less than a year ago so I consider myself a newbie still. I genuinely believe I may not have started collecting if it wasn’t because I had so much free time on my hands. Agree so much with the idea of they are not selling the music they are selling the idol. Which yes they are essentially the brand. it’s like any brand, stick their logo or name on it and it becomes something you want as a consumer. What I have learned with glitch mode, and I talk about glitch mode because it’s the first comeback I really went all in with collecting pobs and merch, etc is the idea of buying anything with the idols face on it. The stress I saw people having on tw joining GOs, how expensive things are, how are they going to complete the collection, a hobby should not make you loose sleep or have to decide how much groceries you can buy that week. I have wondered if albums didn’t have photocards would fans still buy them you know for the music? It be interesting to see how different sales would be if they were like western albums jewel cases with no inclusions. I feel like the photocard community has become an industry of itself separate from kpop in a way. Companies I think went crazy during pandemic of attaching a pc to everything so we can buy it and they will continue to do so because we buy them. This is what I’m assuming from looking at templates how earlier eras compare to present. I do think it will get to the point where we say enough is enough (maybe wishful thinking on my part). Can’t even blame these companies really, it’s a great idea from a business perspective because sells will go up. Wow there is still so much I would like to say because you brought up so many good points but I will leave it here. Hope this turns out to be like a series because I really enjoyed hearing your perspective and reading other people’s opinions too. Very good discussion.
Yes it really upsets me seeing people getting super stressed over trying to collect every single album photocard, POB, and merch pc for a certain idol. You're exactly right that a hobby should not be stressing you out that much. And it's extra upsetting because it's a losing game--companies are not going to start releasing less photocards, they're going to keep releasing more and more until they stop seeing returns and profit from it. And considering how little money photocards cost to manufacture, I don't see that happening any time soon. As to whether fans would buy CDs if photocards didn't exist--I'm almost certain that sales would steeply drop if random inclusions disappeared from the industry. Just look at a graph of CD sales in the US over the years. They peak around the year 2000 and have fallen dramatically every year since (excluding the rise in sales that it seems like a lot of consumer goods experienced during the pandemic). Meanwhile sales are only growing in SK. Sure there are some devoted fans that will buy albums because they are attempting to influence charting and music shows, but I really believe the bulk of fans buying albums aren't thinking about that. There are also people who collect albums but not photocards, but there are less of them than there are pc collectors. In hindsight including random pcs was a brilliant move to increase sales. SM changing the industry yet again, haha. I will definitely do more discussion types videos like this in the future on both this and other topics! The discussion here in the comments has been so amazing, definitely the best of any video I've done
This hits on what I noticed when Stayc first came out, and it greatly affected my collecting. Soon after, it happened with Everglow and it was the POB market. In all actuality, I was used to the OG way SM and JYP did it. You'd get either a poster (sometimes random or just full group) or you'd get an entire set of photocards as a thank you. So, to see this overwhelming number of POB and people actively buying multiple albums from different vendors in order to get these preorder benefits, I became very stressed and dropped those collections despite loving them. Then what followed was Treasure and I caved into the KTown4U POB's because Asahi's looked so cute, but I drastically overspent and realized that it was an unhealthy mindset I was in. Then the Kinhos and the catastrophe that was NCT 2020 which made me give up my Doyoung collection and parts of my Jisung collection. At first, it was easy to trade Kinhos when it was just your respective unit, but with 23 (at the time) members, it became a needle in a haystack. I have always been mindful of what I was contributing to, and actively stop supporting companies and/or if I disagree with their practices. I don't do any POB's, I don't do the Jewel Cases, I don't do the Kinho cards UNLESS I really like the card or it makes sense within my collection/trading community. Like, the TWICE trading community is much different than the NCT one, etc. Removing the cards that are ridiculous and the products that are ridiculous, I had a much better time trading my non-TWICE groups (because, as most people know collect TWICE knows, they are fun and rather easy to collect for, despite the number of cards). An example of a company I stopped supporting despite my ult boy group at the time being under them was Pledis. This is after how they treated the girls of Pristin and I found out they had a habit of doing this to their girl groups since After School. I didn't buy a Seventeen album until they were bought out by HYBE and, even then, it was because my mom likes them and it was a gift for her and she actively uses the CD's. Treasure is on very thin ice depending on how YG decides to behave. I'll still support them in non-monetary ways such as watching their content on TH-cam and vLive, but I will not contribute financially to a company that mistreats its artists or stands for things that I don't agree with.
i totally agree with everything you’re saying and i think younger fans really need to hear this! these people have a whole team of people behind them that do a lot of the work for them too, and tbh i dont think the behind the scenes creatives get enough credit for making these idols look as good as they do. without their team they would just be ordinary people and i dont think thats a bad thing to say && the plastic surgery topic! exactly, younger fans dont realise how natural & slight plastic surgery can be & in sk its literally normal for them to get it as a gift from family (true to my culture too). i think people just get really upset when they’re challenged with the idea that their faves werent born perfect
”not structured or scripted” ?? I loved listening you talk and I’m so impressed tbh. I’m two months late but decided to comment anyway since I’m super grateful I stumbled across this video
i come from a very privileged background (upper-middle class & on top of that i'm white), and because of that my parents largely funded my kpop collection when i was a minor. they supported it. they bought me really nice concert tickets, and would drive me to kpop stores, etc. & because of that i frequently think about messages or dms where people ask me for free albums because obviously i have a lot of surplus and honestly spend far too much money on this little "hobby". when i think about how much money i've put into this collection and how much of my parents money i've put in this, it freaks me out & makes me want to sell it all and give it back to my parents. almost every single one of my hobbies and such were expensive as shit because my parents had the money to put me through it. so, i think about this a lot & how lucky i am to be where i am and how much it's impacted my relationship with money & how it'll affect me in the future when i have to start to pay for my own rent, food, etc. it's an addiction and when i have to make my own money, i don't know how it'll impact my brain to have to quit a lot of my collections cold-turkey.
My parents and I are also from the middle class and I'm also in IT industry. We lived and even today live with nothing special. No fancy vacations or houses. Also, I'm from you can say between 2nd and 3rd world country. I bought maybe 20 kpop albums total and few memories and I always, ALWAYS felt guilty buying them. I always have a thought in my head when buying online that it's too expensive and it would be better to save money or spend on something more important. I don't collect photocards at all. I don't have anything against collecting, I would love to have huge collections, but the fear of spending money is just too much. And I have to add, people guilting other people intp buying a lot or not being a real fan , are people who never worried about the money or are too young (and spend parents money) to understand real-life expenses like bills, food and every unexpected problem that needs money for fixing or medication and stuff.
@@irenamcg I totally relate to this. Sure I've been into it for 10 years now already, but what about in 5 years? In another 10? There's no telling what I will think is important and it does make me question whether I'm wasting my time
@@JuneSun of course we can apply that for any hobby and we need to enjoy something in our life, but for some reason it's easier for me to buy books then albums 😂
This video is so important. I have never seen anyone talk about these issues. These are the ideas that I struggle with, too. I think I grew up in a similar situation to where I started earning more disposable income, I was able to spend money on kpop. I still have the thoughts that I shouldn't spend my money on these items because it's impractical. I also think that I work hard too, so why do these idols deserve all this money, but not me? It's a very interesting topic. Another thing I struggle with is the ageism. I feel somewhat weird supporting idols who are a few years younger than. Mainly this is due to the fact that the majority of the fans see them as "boyfriends/girlfriends" so it's gross for me to think of them in the same light. I would love to hear you talk about this topic and more about the parasocial aspect of kpop. Thank you so much for this video.
Yes so much on the age stuff. I definitely will do another one of these in the future talking about both age and parasocial stuff because that is another really interesting and huge topic that impacts both idols and fans
Finally had time to watch this! You're so eloquent I agree with everything you said and it's really amazing how you put it into words! What bothers me is when itzy or aespa "achieve" something as "new" groups and people say it was purely their hard work and they deserve it like???? No its because they're under big companies they will always get better opportunities
Hi ! I collect haechan too and honestly I've alway had the thought of selling everything and forget ab kpop, and idk but also had the thought of why am i spending this much on cardboard? Is it worth it? Right now I'm actually on a buying hiatus because I'm mentally so exhausted and tired of receiving each month new stuffs, ive been collecting for about 3 years and don't get me wrong i do love haechan with all my heart but collecting for me its been so exhausting lately:?
i feel like you wanted to say bts just say it cause they are the biggest and you already expressed how much no one deserves to be this 'successful' (which i completely disagree on), and ill tell you why later but... i agree with you in lots of points here but to me, the world already works like that, change is never gonna happen in a huge manner, humans use each other, the rich use the poor and the poor also use the poor all for their own gain, people love money and fame even if they dont have it, they project it through the famous person they love they also project it in other ways like sexuality even if the idol is nothing like they are describing so they use that famous person as an escape from reality for themselves. As a grown adult that also stans an idol thats my same age (late 20s) and became a fan when i was in university (early 20s) and didn't buy albums until much later even if i knew about them, i never felt pressured to collect albums or listen to their music, i did all that out of love for their MUSIC, i don't give in to fans trying to tell me what to do either, my favorite idol ever doesn't even try to act as a boyfriend so it doesn't apply to me, personally, yes he's a beautiful man BUT his talent is natural in my eyes, a lot of people can dance, sing and look pretty but for me my favorite artist (as see him as such, hes more than an idol) was born for this, i never wanna project onto him, so i love him as he showed me, his work as a musician i dont care about his personal life thats his to have, i want him to get married and maybe have kids if he wanted i dont know him irl... all i care about is his music, the way he writes music, raps, sings, composes and produces.. i have never felt bad for him, but the opposite i admire him, but not in the sense that i wanna be rich and famous but his natural talent that he has makes me feel inspired, call my admiration for him parasocial relationship but i wanna see him succeed, i dont want him for myself i want the world to know how talented he is! i guess i believe in love and admiration from an artist in that way, and thats why i believe he deserves to be THAT successful.
I think it’s such an important topic to bring up so thank you for doing this! I think something that is also really sad is when I see fans get into financial troubles because they want to support idols. (Sadly I see it happen way too much) It’s a really toxic cycle of making the working class poorer so the upper class can get richer.
This was an extremely interesting video and you are so well spoken and clear with your thoughts! I really do appreciate how much effort you put into this despite how difficult it is to fit everything in in an organized manner, so thank you so much for posting!
I really do agree with this entire thing and though I've been a kpop fan for a much shorter time than many, and there's a lot more about the industry I'm still ignorant to, I have definitely have had all of these thoughts and doubts that you covered in your video over and over again.
When it comes to collecting I so often have that self-doubt where I second guess why I'm spending my money this way and how I should be more responsible with my disposable income. It's such a back and forth between that struggle and allowing myself to have material possessions that bring me joy. Like I know companies are creating x amount of albums versions and x amount of photocards solely to make more money and boost album sales, but I buy every version anyway! And I want every single pc of my bias because it brings me joy to collect. It's exactly the same itch I was scratching when I collected makeup in my teens or neopet cards when I was in elementary school. The more financial freedom I have as I grow older, the more expensive my hobbies become
What I really appreciated about this video was the focus in your final points about wishing the general community was more aware and more critical about the content we are consuming. We have every right to consume what the idol industry is creating for us, but we could have so much more autonomy over how they exploit us if we were more aware and maybe even more cynical for lack of a better word. There's an intention and a purpose to every single thing these companies choose to edit together and show us. Nothing they share is 100% Candid and natural. It's important for us to always remember everything is acurated narrative that they want us to believe in. Sometimes I wish I could just call these companies out on their bullshit when I watch some of those behind the scenes videos. And like you said in your video, it does not mean everything is a fabrication and that all idols are just acting and are never exploited for their labor. But the fact remains that a narrative is being spun from these idols' real lives and there's just something so icky about it when I think about it too hard. But I still consume it and I still give them my money, because I'm a human being just like you said
I'm a grown adult who is fortunate enough to have a lifestyle where I can afford to spend her disposable income on kpop, but I constantly constantly fight with myself in my mind about the truth of what I'm feeding my money into.
But that is such a large problem in society that reaches far outside of just the kpop industry so it is so overwhelming to think about sometimes. I really do think it's beneficial to narrow in on the fans within the community like you covered in your video. How it affects young peoples mentality and sense of self worth is also extremely important. And you've provided such a great reminder to us all to not let idols' internet personas and the personas of our fellow fans make us feel we are not as worthy or talented or not rich enough.
We really can't dismantle the establishment of these huge corporations that are basically more Amazon's and Disney's, but we can adjust our mentality and our attitudes on social media and lift each other up and support our favorite artists by whatever means we are comfortable with without any shame
Easier said than done for sure
Oh man I probably got so nonsensical with this comment and I basically just wrote a diary entry 😅 and I know I didn't even touch the exploitation of young trainees and that whole side of the industry but I have to stop at some point
Apologies for not really bringing anything new to the conversation I was mostly just agreeing with this video, but it's nice to commiserate and find others who have the same outlook as you
Again thank you for your video and all your videos in general you have an amazing channel!
Love this comment but especially the part about how we can't dismantle a corporation, but we can stick together and lift each other up as fans. At the end of the day what IS in our control is how we treat each other, and I wish that was more of where the focus was. Thank you so much for the long and thoughtful comment, it was a great read
This is seriously a video I wish every kpop fan could watch. Especially the younger fans who have no financial or class consciousness. I wish people understood that a majority of people in any creative arts industry are not more talented than others, they just have more time to dedicate to their hobbies and their parents can pay for them to receive opportunities. It kills me inside when I see fans defending exorbitant merch, concert and album prices with the defence its 'supporting the artist' when they don't need more money and a majority of the revenue goes to the company anyway.
Yes I think I forgot to get into that whole side of it--the stuff with fans defending company decisions. It is a very frustrating sentiment to run into. Companies aren't releasing outrageously priced merch for the benefit of the idols, it's just another way for them to profit off the idol's image
Such good and interesting thoughts! I am not someone who thinks about the "deeper things" very often and this got me thinking for sure!! Thanks for taking the time to make this video and share all of this info and your thoughts with us. 💖
Also, I just watched an older video of yours and found out you were a '94 liner too.. so hello fellow 94' liner 🥰
You are so right about how people who idolize celebrities and for us kpop idols, try and say that they deserve everything that they have and need more. There are people out there like Healthcare workers and factory workers who most times work harder then celebrities. I hope that the kpop idols can take care of themselves with cooking and cleaning and doing laundry because they won't always be a kpop idol and they will have to teach their future children if they have any how to take care of themselves.
I understand that most groups go from rock bottom like bts and especially the companies that don't have any popular groups. They do have to work for what they earn and how they do live. Kpop idols do go through struggles especially.
For me, collecting is a hobby and I don't want to buy every little thing they come out with. To me, the photocards I collect and the albums I buy are memories of their story as a group and memories as being a part of their Fandom. To me it's like capturing a photo or scrapbooking.
Sorry for the long comment but I loved this type of video and I think you should make more videos like this🥰
hello there! this is the first time I've stumbled across your channel and I just wanted to say that this was a fantastic video with a phenomenal discussion at it's core. you are so well spoken and you've touched on so many things that I wish I could have spoken about in my videos to help viewers and people who comment on them understand all of the factors that tie into having a kpop photocard collection, or any collection for that matter. Our upbringing / growth after going to college/university and getting a full time salaried job is so similar and I really related with the topics discussed here! definitely subscribing! keep up the amazing work! you also have a wonderful collection!
what an amazing video. please make more of these! i love your perspective! i completely agree that the main reason these k-pop companies are getting away with all their morally ambiguous practices is that their target impressionable teens or rather mentally unstable introverts with a lot of free time. as you said, there’s nothing wrong with falling for these idols, because their image is purposefully crafted to be irresistible and relatable to literally every kind of person out there (that’s why the idols themselves often get associated with animals or are given literal adjectives to describe their personal brand), so it only proves you’re human if you eventually start to care for any one of them and their well-being. i do however wish people would be more critical when it comes to k-pop. it’s one thing to like an artist and consume their content appropriately according to your own needs and time etc. but what a lot of stans do is they dedicated their entire personalities and years of their lives to being a stan of said artist, which will later have its reprecussions. there’s also a big herd mentality problem in the k-pop stan world, that’s why a lot of younger people will jump on bandwagons and commit to things like streaming, having time-demanding fan accounts and spending money on collections without considering at what (or rather who’s) cost they’re doing it. and all of this is made worse by the fact that majority of the fans are teens who are literally unable to see the bigger picture or fully understand the impact their words and actions have on other fans and on the group as a whole, because they’re simply too young to comprehend. it’s honestly kind of scary how perfectly the entertainment has it planned out? like there’s a lot wrong with it but it’s all so appealing you almost can’t fully leave once you’re in it lol.
i 100% have those thoughts of like “what am i doing spending my money on this stuff?” especially bc i dont make enough money to even collect the way i want to so i’m just doing my best going paycheck to paycheck and i really don’t recommend doing it like that but i can’t get myself to stop since collecting is one of the only things i ever really look forward to 😅 but it’s so hard bc i want to be able to save up for “more important things” like vacations or a laptop or gaming consoles or the ability to move out.. it’s hard
ugh that is the eternal struggle, wanting to save money vs wanting to have a fun purchase to look forward to >_
Thank you! I've been a fan of Kpop since 2010 and you have no idea how badly I needed to hear this. I took a hiatus from Kpop after 2NE1 disbanded and then jumped back in while coping with the way Covid changed life. Being a Kpop fan seems like a completely different ball game, and I got swept away with it.
I admit that I've been letting the pressure of having to DO and BUY in order to consider myself a REAL fan get to me. This video helped me see that pressure for what it is while feeling like a friendly, albeit eye opening, conversation.
Another top tier video made by you once again! This is definitely one of my favorite videos you have ever made so far and I can tell I'm going to be rewatching this a lot. On the point that you made about feeling sometimes like just dropping(or selling) everything and moving on with your life is something I always think about with my own kpop collection. For me I'm the type of person that if I don't "push" myself to buy or do something that I haven't done before, it can take me years to actually do it even if its something that I'm "dying" to do (and similarly, if I take a long enough break, I stop having the feeling of continuing). So whenever I think about my collection I know for a fact that if I just get rid of everything, I'm not going to care enough to buy it back but I also know that not only does my collection make me happy, I get a lot of use out of it (mostly every other day) so its justifiable for me to keep on going.
Wow I very much relate to that, even if I really want to do something it takes so much effort for me to get started or actually do it, lol. Even starting this channel I thought about it for months before I actually did it. Now that I think about it, I do think having a channel has definitely fueled or at least sustained my collection more than I would have if I didn't have this. I do really enjoy my collection and flip through it and rearrange it and stuff on my own, but I wonder whether I would have ever given into those momentary "I should just quit" thoughts if I didn't also have this channel and the interaction with commenters as like an added bonus to keep me going
God, the "should I stop collecting?" part hit me.
It's not like I can't afford it but collecting has started to become like a drug addiction.
I've started "seriously" collecting just 2 years ago and the difference in my bank account omg...
For now, it makes me super happy and I really enjoy it! But sometimes I do think about how now I'm like 'should I go out to eat/on a trip?' cause I wanna save up for comebacks. Also how I'm not really saving up that much anymore (pobs ruined my life).
Maybe one day I will sell everything but for now I really do love my collection and the happy serotin boosts collecting gives me :c
Oof I totally think about that as well >_< will I totally sell everything one day? Definitely a big possibility. But like you I am happy going on like this for now. There's no way to predict what I will be like and how I will think in the future so I try not to dwell on it too much
@@JuneSun I think that we never know what will happen in life, and maybe we're going to regret it later but for now, it's something that makes us happy so we should just live day by day and enjoy it!
This really became my favorite video, i think if you could, talking more about this would be such a great opener for others
I definitely agree with that background, like there are many who of course dont have the same standing, but thinking about it, alot of them are from normal/working class where they can afford to welcome and achieve their dreams, many do afterschool extra classes to learn different things, English, piano, and popularly taekwondo to in a way improve themselves. This isn't about an idol, but i remember watching some different videos and there's many parents who take up many more jobs just to provide their kids with these type of things to improve and make their lives in their terms much better.
In terms of collecting, i definitely do have alot of times where i "realize" what am i doing with my money, things like i could have gotten myself this instead or invested, saved, spent differently, there are times where i cant spend on expensive material things i can show because my first thought it, maybe i should get more cards to finish my collection. When i have those thoughts i go through the i should sell everything or just keep the cards that i like the most so i can make my money back or spend it on something else, or invest in a certain collection, i think speciality for collectors that do different members or are bigger into collecting different idols, it gets very stressful. Of course everyone has the liberty to do whatever they want with their collection but once you get into it, sometimes you lose track and just like others you end up collecting everything because someone elses collecting is much bigger. Cards for specific idols cost so much and if you personally stan them and decide to collect them, whether its impulsive buying or something, you end up buying these cards and it really racks up.
I think that last part of the talk, generally teens and adults look for something to spend time on and in a way get away from their normal life. When i was younger being into my idol back then selena gomez i could escape whatever i was thinking and i could really just be in my own world. In a way, kpop or any entertainment really is, you go into it sometimes hard because you escape with this so then you spend money and time on it sometimes unhealthily because you feel compelled to because they made you feel good, or you feel like that is your comfort space which is respected but it really make you realize wow its deeper than you think
I agree lastly, fans force fans to do more than what they have to, i dont want to spend more than 4 minutes watching what a mv is and yet theres people who force? To make you watch it more because if not you're not really a fan, i dont want to go into it too much but its so sad that an environment with just FANS can be so toxic when it's really just a pass time/hobby.
Yes you're right about kpop as a form of escapism, I didn't even get into that aspect and it's a huge part of the draw of kpop to a lot of people. And completely agreed on the last point. As fans of kpop we are more similar than we are different so it's a shame to see some fan environments be so full of fighting and guilt-tripping
This video was recommended to me & I am very glad it was, thank you for taking the time to talk about these topics. Everyone always wants to see the good glamorous parts of the industry & we all know the bad side exists but still at the end of the day support it, as any other industry with our time & money. I am a pandemic kpop fan I guess and started buying albums in 2020 and collecting photocards really less than a year ago so I consider myself a newbie still. I genuinely believe I may not have started collecting if it wasn’t because I had so much free time on my hands.
Agree so much with the idea of they are not selling the music they are selling the idol. Which yes they are essentially the brand. it’s like any brand, stick their logo or name on it and it becomes something you want as a consumer. What I have learned with glitch mode, and I talk about glitch mode because it’s the first comeback I really went all in with collecting pobs and merch, etc is the idea of buying anything with the idols face on it. The stress I saw people having on tw joining GOs, how expensive things are, how are they going to complete the collection, a hobby should not make you loose sleep or have to decide how much groceries you can buy that week.
I have wondered if albums didn’t have photocards would fans still buy them you know for the music? It be interesting to see how different sales would be if they were like western albums jewel cases with no inclusions. I feel like the photocard community has become an industry of itself separate from kpop in a way. Companies I think went crazy during pandemic of attaching a pc to everything so we can buy it and they will continue to do so because we buy them. This is what I’m assuming from looking at templates how earlier eras compare to present. I do think it will get to the point where we say enough is enough (maybe wishful thinking on my part). Can’t even blame these companies really, it’s a great idea from a business perspective because sells will go up.
Wow there is still so much I would like to say because you brought up so many good points but I will leave it here. Hope this turns out to be like a series because I really enjoyed hearing your perspective and reading other people’s opinions too. Very good discussion.
Yes it really upsets me seeing people getting super stressed over trying to collect every single album photocard, POB, and merch pc for a certain idol. You're exactly right that a hobby should not be stressing you out that much. And it's extra upsetting because it's a losing game--companies are not going to start releasing less photocards, they're going to keep releasing more and more until they stop seeing returns and profit from it. And considering how little money photocards cost to manufacture, I don't see that happening any time soon.
As to whether fans would buy CDs if photocards didn't exist--I'm almost certain that sales would steeply drop if random inclusions disappeared from the industry. Just look at a graph of CD sales in the US over the years. They peak around the year 2000 and have fallen dramatically every year since (excluding the rise in sales that it seems like a lot of consumer goods experienced during the pandemic). Meanwhile sales are only growing in SK. Sure there are some devoted fans that will buy albums because they are attempting to influence charting and music shows, but I really believe the bulk of fans buying albums aren't thinking about that. There are also people who collect albums but not photocards, but there are less of them than there are pc collectors. In hindsight including random pcs was a brilliant move to increase sales. SM changing the industry yet again, haha.
I will definitely do more discussion types videos like this in the future on both this and other topics! The discussion here in the comments has been so amazing, definitely the best of any video I've done
I deeply appreciate this video and I agree 100%.
you are just amazing, i absolutely love to listen you talk about things like this, thank you for the video
thanks so much! :)
This hits on what I noticed when Stayc first came out, and it greatly affected my collecting. Soon after, it happened with Everglow and it was the POB market. In all actuality, I was used to the OG way SM and JYP did it. You'd get either a poster (sometimes random or just full group) or you'd get an entire set of photocards as a thank you. So, to see this overwhelming number of POB and people actively buying multiple albums from different vendors in order to get these preorder benefits, I became very stressed and dropped those collections despite loving them.
Then what followed was Treasure and I caved into the KTown4U POB's because Asahi's looked so cute, but I drastically overspent and realized that it was an unhealthy mindset I was in. Then the Kinhos and the catastrophe that was NCT 2020 which made me give up my Doyoung collection and parts of my Jisung collection. At first, it was easy to trade Kinhos when it was just your respective unit, but with 23 (at the time) members, it became a needle in a haystack.
I have always been mindful of what I was contributing to, and actively stop supporting companies and/or if I disagree with their practices. I don't do any POB's, I don't do the Jewel Cases, I don't do the Kinho cards UNLESS I really like the card or it makes sense within my collection/trading community. Like, the TWICE trading community is much different than the NCT one, etc. Removing the cards that are ridiculous and the products that are ridiculous, I had a much better time trading my non-TWICE groups (because, as most people know collect TWICE knows, they are fun and rather easy to collect for, despite the number of cards).
An example of a company I stopped supporting despite my ult boy group at the time being under them was Pledis. This is after how they treated the girls of Pristin and I found out they had a habit of doing this to their girl groups since After School. I didn't buy a Seventeen album until they were bought out by HYBE and, even then, it was because my mom likes them and it was a gift for her and she actively uses the CD's. Treasure is on very thin ice depending on how YG decides to behave. I'll still support them in non-monetary ways such as watching their content on TH-cam and vLive, but I will not contribute financially to a company that mistreats its artists or stands for things that I don't agree with.
i totally agree with everything you’re saying and i think younger fans really need to hear this! these people have a whole team of people behind them that do a lot of the work for them too, and tbh i dont think the behind the scenes creatives get enough credit for making these idols look as good as they do. without their team they would just be ordinary people and i dont think thats a bad thing to say
&& the plastic surgery topic! exactly, younger fans dont realise how natural & slight plastic surgery can be & in sk its literally normal for them to get it as a gift from family (true to my culture too). i think people just get really upset when they’re challenged with the idea that their faves werent born perfect
”not structured or scripted” ?? I loved listening you talk and I’m so impressed tbh. I’m two months late but decided to comment anyway since I’m super grateful I stumbled across this video
i come from a very privileged background (upper-middle class & on top of that i'm white), and because of that my parents largely funded my kpop collection when i was a minor. they supported it. they bought me really nice concert tickets, and would drive me to kpop stores, etc. & because of that i frequently think about messages or dms where people ask me for free albums because obviously i have a lot of surplus and honestly spend far too much money on this little "hobby". when i think about how much money i've put into this collection and how much of my parents money i've put in this, it freaks me out & makes me want to sell it all and give it back to my parents. almost every single one of my hobbies and such were expensive as shit because my parents had the money to put me through it. so, i think about this a lot & how lucky i am to be where i am and how much it's impacted my relationship with money & how it'll affect me in the future when i have to start to pay for my own rent, food, etc. it's an addiction and when i have to make my own money, i don't know how it'll impact my brain to have to quit a lot of my collections cold-turkey.
My parents and I are also from the middle class and I'm also in IT industry. We lived and even today live with nothing special. No fancy vacations or houses. Also, I'm from you can say between 2nd and 3rd world country. I bought maybe 20 kpop albums total and few memories and I always, ALWAYS felt guilty buying them. I always have a thought in my head when buying online that it's too expensive and it would be better to save money or spend on something more important. I don't collect photocards at all. I don't have anything against collecting, I would love to have huge collections, but the fear of spending money is just too much.
And I have to add, people guilting other people intp buying a lot or not being a real fan , are people who never worried about the money or are too young (and spend parents money) to understand real-life expenses like bills, food and every unexpected problem that needs money for fixing or medication and stuff.
also what I often think is, what's the point of buying now these albums, will it even matter in 5 years, so why even start.
@@irenamcg I totally relate to this. Sure I've been into it for 10 years now already, but what about in 5 years? In another 10? There's no telling what I will think is important and it does make me question whether I'm wasting my time
@@JuneSun of course we can apply that for any hobby and we need to enjoy something in our life, but for some reason it's easier for me to buy books then albums 😂
This video is so important. I have never seen anyone talk about these issues. These are the ideas that I struggle with, too. I think I grew up in a similar situation to where I started earning more disposable income, I was able to spend money on kpop. I still have the thoughts that I shouldn't spend my money on these items because it's impractical. I also think that I work hard too, so why do these idols deserve all this money, but not me? It's a very interesting topic.
Another thing I struggle with is the ageism. I feel somewhat weird supporting idols who are a few years younger than. Mainly this is due to the fact that the majority of the fans see them as "boyfriends/girlfriends" so it's gross for me to think of them in the same light. I would love to hear you talk about this topic and more about the parasocial aspect of kpop. Thank you so much for this video.
Yes so much on the age stuff. I definitely will do another one of these in the future talking about both age and parasocial stuff because that is another really interesting and huge topic that impacts both idols and fans
thanks for making this video :).
Finally had time to watch this! You're so eloquent I agree with everything you said and it's really amazing how you put it into words! What bothers me is when itzy or aespa "achieve" something as "new" groups and people say it was purely their hard work and they deserve it like???? No its because they're under big companies they will always get better opportunities
Hi ! I collect haechan too and honestly I've alway had the thought of selling everything and forget ab kpop, and idk but also had the thought of why am i spending this much on cardboard? Is it worth it? Right now I'm actually on a buying hiatus because I'm mentally so exhausted and tired of receiving each month new stuffs, ive been collecting for about 3 years and don't get me wrong i do love haechan with all my heart but collecting for me its been so exhausting lately:?
Capitalism: The House always wins. One person hitting the jackpot doesn't make a real dent in the casino's income.
i feel like you wanted to say bts just say it cause they are the biggest and you already expressed how much no one deserves to be this 'successful' (which i completely disagree on), and ill tell you why later but... i agree with you in lots of points here but to me, the world already works like that, change is never gonna happen in a huge manner, humans use each other, the rich use the poor and the poor also use the poor all for their own gain, people love money and fame even if they dont have it, they project it through the famous person they love they also project it in other ways like sexuality even if the idol is nothing like they are describing so they use that famous person as an escape from reality for themselves.
As a grown adult that also stans an idol thats my same age (late 20s) and became a fan when i was in university (early 20s) and didn't buy albums until much later even if i knew about them, i never felt pressured to collect albums or listen to their music, i did all that out of love for their MUSIC, i don't give in to fans trying to tell me what to do either, my favorite idol ever doesn't even try to act as a boyfriend so it doesn't apply to me, personally, yes he's a beautiful man BUT his talent is natural in my eyes, a lot of people can dance, sing and look pretty but for me my favorite artist (as see him as such, hes more than an idol) was born for this, i never wanna project onto him, so i love him as he showed me, his work as a musician i dont care about his personal life thats his to have, i want him to get married and maybe have kids if he wanted i dont know him irl... all i care about is his music, the way he writes music, raps, sings, composes and produces.. i have never felt bad for him, but the opposite i admire him, but not in the sense that i wanna be rich and famous but his natural talent that he has makes me feel inspired, call my admiration for him parasocial relationship but i wanna see him succeed, i dont want him for myself i want the world to know how talented he is! i guess i believe in love and admiration from an artist in that way, and thats why i believe he deserves to be THAT successful.