The Dana 61s were most common with the first gen dodge Cummins trucks with the Automatic 3 speed. The auto 3speed A727 trans had no overdrive from 89-91.5 and would come with 3.07 gears on an automatic truck. Manual trucks had 3.54 gears for the most part and they came with Dana 60 axles.
I found out about the Dana 61 the same way. We were trying to put 7.17’s in it, and realized that some thing was wrong. This was our first time trying to set up gears to boot. Ah the good old days.
Looks like the algorithm was kind to you on this one, Fred!! Good for you, if anybody deserves a break it’s you. I’ve been watching you and Dirthead Dave since the pre-Alabama army truck days and you guys are still kicking ass.
This is good information Fred, had no idea a Dana 61 was a thing. Also, I always liked this truck and have wanted to build one myself. Also...it is December 1st, didn't you say you were going to get your Jeep FC running this year?
Drive flange was used on 75-79 Dodge Powerwagons with D60s as they were Fulltime 4wd and didn't use lockouts. Also the 89 to early 91 that were equipped with the D61 had a D70U rear that most call a D71.
Great break down on the 61, I spent 20 years in drive train rebuilding and you had me geeking out on the Dana parts swap to fit the application and make it work, good stuff. Back in the 80's and 90's I used to spend many hours going thru parts books to see what I could swap around to make things work.
Would have been so cool to see more of this old rig. Thanks Dave for Nerding us up with the details of the running gear. Sounds pretty interesting that you can do all these cool things with these odd ball axles. 😂
I soooooo wish Dirt Every Day was still a thing, it’s such a bummer. The new shows are crap. But as long as you’re happy and having fun that’s all that matters.
I remember seeing this rig on DED, i actually went and bought one (powered by a 350SBC from the factory) and ended up building it with a dana Super 60 up front, and a dana 80 in the rear, and using the bellcrank from a chevrolet p30/motorhome to solve the steering without going hydrosteer. 4 inch lift, 4l80e from the factory, and an np261HD . An absolutely stupid rig! Fun stuff tho.
When you were doing the math in your head, all I could think of was John Belushi, in Animal House, “When the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor…”. Too funny, love the content. I can relate, all my stuff is 30 plus years old. Thank you!
Nice video Fred. I'm running a D61 at the rear of my ''85 E350 Diesel van with 3:54s and 35" tires. It has a Detroit Electrac (e-locker/LSD) with disc brakes. I can lock it up on the fly too. The locker has been in for 20 years with no issues. I think its a great axle. The van never gets stuck.
Put a D61 rear in my Waggy. 3.73 gears, semi float 1.5" 35 spline axles. Came out of a ¾t dodge van with a 4" offset that worked just fine with the Quadratrack t case. Got a Lincoln locker while we were at it. Was a pretty decent upgrade from the 44 I toasted with the 36" swampers. The front got a D44 from a J20. Dana made some pretty different stuff that nobody knows about any more.
I'm right outside Galveston Island, TX. I bought my 89' W150 5.9ltr(picture) from the original owner up in Houston about twenty three years ago. Bought 4" Skyjackers springs and a 2" body lift one month. Borg shaft and cross over steering stuff drag link from Offroad Design the next month. I worked at a warehouse unloading trucks so I had axles shipped to me. Eventually I ordered a rear Dana 60 from Boyce equipment set up with 4.10's and the factory trac-lok since I was street driving it. I found online eventually what was advertised as a Dana 60 at Ventures truck parts in Utah. Guy called me back and said it was actually a Dana 61. Same BOM# as yours from off a 1989 DodgeW350. Yes. The pinion on the 89' is offset more on a Dana 61. Also a D61 has more webbing around the center section. Ventures sales guy said he could set up the D61 with factory 4.10's on a 3.54 case and that's it. I was fine with it since I'm a TF727. Even with my 38" Swamper SSR's the truck drove fine to me power wise. Also he had to replace one side of the axles rotor and Selectro hub. I finally stripped these axles of my old beat up project two weeks ago and I have since bought a 89' clone. I am in the process of rebuilding these axles and converting the D61 to 35 spline with internal locking hubs from Yukon. I already bought the proper Chevy/Dodge front wheel internal hubs. From what I understand...I just need to purchase rotors and brake calipers for a 92-93 Dodge W350 and everything will bolt right up. The 91.5 and older Dana 60's/61 used a slightly narrower caliper and a rotor that the rotor hat was 1.25" tall. All Chevy's used calipers and a brake rotor that were a 1.50" tall hat. Dodge switched to this 1.5" tall brake rotor with matching caliper in 91.5 to 93. I was hoping you had figured out/worked out how to run a selectable ARB or an OX locker on a front Dana 61 with 4.56's or 4.88's finally. Sighhhh
This content has brightened up my life so much. This is the second video I’ve watched and you are a master at your craft not only are you really knowledgeable and very good with your hands and trucks but your videos are very well-made. Thank you sir I really enjoy the content a lot. I have an 80 series 2 and my shocks are worn out on the rear hatch so I’m gonna replace them. Thanks to your video.
As an outside the 4x4 genre observer. This was a very interesting deep dive. Very entertaining and educational. The only thing I think would've made this better was showing a comparison between the 60, 61 and the superduty axel. I get it this was a quickie get content out video. And well done I might add. Fred your knowledge of 4x4 always delivers. Great job. Thanks for sharing your talents and adventures.
Its nice seeing you again after all these years. Ive been watching yiur content since i was 5 years old. Well not specifically this channel but i remember watching dirt every day on my 3ds when dirt every day was on Netflix and being exited to see what was new on dirt every day
According to Dana PDF document X510-9, your 610333-2 was a 1989 open 3.54 unit built for Chrysler in the D600 and D700 trucks. My first experience with a D61 was in the late 90's when I needed a replacement to my regular D60 rear in my '78 F250. I pulled a whole D61 from an '81 F250. I thought it was neat because it had larger 3.5" tubes with a heavier webbed chuck (similar to a 60HD I later found out). I eventually got a D70U from an '84 F250 6.9 so I junked the D61. You are right it is not a bad axle. I would run one any day over a Ford 78-79 D60 rear. Edit: chunk... not "chuck"!
The 89 through 91.5 cummins auto equipped trucks all had the 3.07 gears because they only had the 727 non overdrive, non lock up with 1 to 1 final ratio. The 91.5 to 93 cummins auto equipped trucks had the A518 overdrive non lock up rigs so they had usually the 3.54 or4.11 option. The dana 70 rear axle in the 3.07 trucks were odd too, only ever in the 89 to 91.5's. Those ring and pinions have not been available for 20 years if you blow one up. I have had the pleasure of breaking 2 of them.
Same had to buy a new axle for my 91 cause a wheel bearing went bad and sliced the spindle off. Had to find a new housing then swap over gears and limited slip. The upside is now I have an extra set of axle shafts and 3.07 gears.
Fred, I've followed your career for many years, and it's time to say that THIS is the reason for it. This video showcases everything. Your protruding cranium is impressive, your explanations are simple, yet stuffed with information and easy to understand for the uninitiated, and the marked lack of hype is almost soothing in today's culture of extreme fajitas and explosive toothpaste... I've been a fabricator/ mechanic my whole life, and it would be a dream come true to wrench under sumpin with bigfoot klunky tires and a rumpity bumpstick right beside you. I have hopes of repowering my squarebody K35 suburban with a DT466 and Alison 4-speed auto, so let me know if you wanna help!!! 😂 Keep up the good work.
My friend has a 1990 dodge w350 with a 61 in the front but he got lucky and it already has 4:56 gears and and arb airlocker in it, and it's a dually axle so it's got the internal spline warm hubs.
I’ve been looking at one of those. Been thinking about buying it to convert to 4x4 and put 37’s on it. I thought I was the only person who would do that😂😂😂😂
We've seen the Jeep FC peaking out from lots of videos on lots of different channels. But no builds! Starting to think there are only a few FCs and you guys take turns storing them in your garage/lot for interesting background infill. Or you hire a pink sasquatch to hang around.
I’ve had my share of happening across axles with random out of sequence internals and outers. Sometimes you you just want to close your eyes and walk away!!!
I have a D61 in my 76 F250 RWD with a 390FE/C6. It's highway gearing was great for a 1:1 transmission and 30"ish tires. The tall gearing sucks when you're running 33" or taller tires though. Also the ability to go 55 MPH in 1st is kind of ridiculous lol.
Our 1987 Econoline 250 has a Dana 61 rear with 3.54’s. With a 6.9 turbo, ZF5 and propane injection we’ve gotten 18MPG on the highway. Would have liked to have found that same rear with 3.08 gears. On the Cummins 4x4 Econoline van I’m building, I’m using the Super 60 you spoke of with 3.55’s.
I have a 91.5 dodge with six in a row under the hood and it’s got the 60 upfront but it’s never been abused everything still straight and true but one thing it always wore of the inside of the tires faster than the outside and there’s a company called stemp 600 that’s the part number and it’s pin eccentric anyways since I had those put in my front tires where even now anyway the Dana 60 still good axle there’s a company called Dyna track in California. I don’t know if they make front axles or not but they make very very good the rear axles, Dana 80s and things like that, all right this is six in a row Jim from Kennerdell, Pennsylvania
I love this easern block style cab over 4x4. Been wanting to build an npr man dakar type unimog for a while. Tons of gears, huge tires and monster axles. U1300s would be tits. Get crazy with the sticks and a nasty off big diesel like a dt466 or something similar. What crazy trans case deal could you run. Be nice to have 5 sticks to work with not including the pto
One of the things I've always liked about your show is how peaceful it can be. The cold open with no commentary was a nice call back to those days
The Dana 61s were most common with the first gen dodge Cummins trucks with the Automatic 3 speed. The auto 3speed A727 trans had no overdrive from 89-91.5 and would come with 3.07 gears on an automatic truck. Manual trucks had 3.54 gears for the most part and they came with Dana 60 axles.
Agreed. I was going to post this if nobody else had
Yeah and the rear is a Dana 71 I believe. Basically they enlarged the housing to fit the bigger pinion gear.
@@Rancidkidd while simultaneously sticking a dana 60 pinion bearing into the 70u
Absolutely love the deep dives like this Fred. Great content.
Man, you deserve a massive platform, I can’t believe you have to make all this content yourself now
I found out about the Dana 61 the same way. We were trying to put 7.17’s in it, and realized that some thing was wrong. This was our first time trying to set up gears to boot. Ah the good old days.
Looks like the algorithm was kind to you on this one, Fred!! Good for you, if anybody deserves a break it’s you. I’ve been watching you and Dirthead Dave since the pre-Alabama army truck days and you guys are still kicking ass.
I remember pulling a Dana 60 out the back of a ford van at a pull a part…. Only to later discover it was a 61. I was soooo bummed!!
This is good information Fred, had no idea a Dana 61 was a thing. Also, I always liked this truck and have wanted to build one myself. Also...it is December 1st, didn't you say you were going to get your Jeep FC running this year?
Drive flange was used on 75-79 Dodge Powerwagons with D60s as they were Fulltime 4wd and didn't use lockouts. Also the 89 to early 91 that were equipped with the D61 had a D70U rear that most call a D71.
Great break down on the 61, I spent 20 years in drive train rebuilding and you had me geeking out on the Dana parts swap to fit the application and make it work, good stuff. Back in the 80's and 90's I used to spend many hours going thru parts books to see what I could swap around to make things work.
I specially sought out a dana 61 for my '77 F250. 3:00 gears with a 460/C6 cruises so nice!
Fred, love the axle tech! You should do one on the Eaton HO52 and HO72, I bet a lot of people missed your DED extra about them
Would have been so cool to see more of this old rig. Thanks Dave for Nerding us up with the details of the running gear. Sounds pretty interesting that you can do all these cool things with these odd ball axles. 😂
@24:27 Fred does math and realizes how old he is on camera,… I’m with ya Fred. ❤️🩹🤣
I soooooo wish Dirt Every Day was still a thing, it’s such a bummer. The new shows are crap. But as long as you’re happy and having fun that’s all that matters.
I've heard of the Dana 61 but never knew much about it. Thought this was a great breakdown. Thanks for sharing the wealth.
I remember seeing this rig on DED, i actually went and bought one (powered by a 350SBC from the factory) and ended up building it with a dana Super 60 up front, and a dana 80 in the rear, and using the bellcrank from a chevrolet p30/motorhome to solve the steering without going hydrosteer. 4 inch lift, 4l80e from the factory, and an np261HD
.
An absolutely stupid rig! Fun stuff tho.
Thanks Fred. I had never heard of a Dana61 until your video. You put out a bunch of info on it and now I feel like I learned something.
When you were doing the math in your head, all I could think of was John Belushi, in Animal House, “When the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor…”. Too funny, love the content. I can relate, all my stuff is 30 plus years old. Thank you!
Nice video Fred. I'm running a D61 at the rear of my ''85 E350 Diesel van with 3:54s and 35" tires. It has a Detroit Electrac (e-locker/LSD) with disc brakes. I can lock it up on the fly too. The locker has been in for 20 years with no issues. I think its a great axle. The van never gets stuck.
Put a D61 rear in my Waggy. 3.73 gears, semi float 1.5" 35 spline axles. Came out of a ¾t dodge van with a 4" offset that worked just fine with the Quadratrack t case. Got a Lincoln locker while we were at it. Was a pretty decent upgrade from the 44 I toasted with the 36" swampers. The front got a D44 from a J20.
Dana made some pretty different stuff that nobody knows about any more.
I'm right outside Galveston Island, TX. I bought my 89' W150 5.9ltr(picture) from the original owner up in Houston about twenty three years ago. Bought 4" Skyjackers springs and a 2" body lift one month. Borg shaft and cross over steering stuff drag link from Offroad Design the next month. I worked at a warehouse unloading trucks so I had axles shipped to me. Eventually I ordered a rear Dana 60 from Boyce equipment set up with 4.10's and the factory trac-lok since I was street driving it. I found online eventually what was advertised as a Dana 60 at Ventures truck parts in Utah. Guy called me back and said it was actually a Dana 61. Same BOM# as yours from off a 1989 DodgeW350. Yes. The pinion on the 89' is offset more on a Dana 61. Also a D61 has more webbing around the center section. Ventures sales guy said he could set up the D61 with factory 4.10's on a 3.54 case and that's it. I was fine with it since I'm a TF727. Even with my 38" Swamper SSR's the truck drove fine to me power wise. Also he had to replace one side of the axles rotor and Selectro hub. I finally stripped these axles of my old beat up project two weeks ago and I have since bought a 89' clone. I am in the process of rebuilding these axles and converting the D61 to 35 spline with internal locking hubs from Yukon. I already bought the proper Chevy/Dodge front wheel internal hubs. From what I understand...I just need to purchase rotors and brake calipers for a 92-93 Dodge W350 and everything will bolt right up. The 91.5 and older Dana 60's/61 used a slightly narrower caliper and a rotor that the rotor hat was 1.25" tall. All Chevy's used calipers and a brake rotor that were a 1.50" tall hat. Dodge switched to this 1.5" tall brake rotor with matching caliper in 91.5 to 93. I was hoping you had figured out/worked out how to run a selectable ARB or an OX locker on a front Dana 61 with 4.56's or 4.88's finally. Sighhhh
Great informative video. Years ago I had an 86' Ford F-350 4x4. It had a DANA 61 front axle with a 4.10 ratio. It was a Canadian-built truck.
This content has brightened up my life so much. This is the second video I’ve watched and you are a master at your craft not only are you really knowledgeable and very good with your hands and trucks but your videos are very well-made. Thank you sir I really enjoy the content a lot. I have an 80 series 2 and my shocks are worn out on the rear hatch so I’m gonna replace them. Thanks to your video.
Wow. And this is why you need your show back!! All we need to say!
As an outside the 4x4 genre observer. This was a very interesting deep dive. Very entertaining and educational. The only thing I think would've made this better was showing a comparison between the 60, 61 and the superduty axel. I get it this was a quickie get content out video. And well done I might add.
Fred your knowledge of 4x4 always delivers. Great job.
Thanks for sharing your talents and adventures.
Thank you for the technical information and latest update for the Dana 61 axle. Cool!
Glad to see you still got the ol WA wagoner 🤘🏼 one of my favorites from the fleet
Fred, it's pretty cool that you talk about the breakdown of axles, as it can be a bit confusing.. Good video!!
Fred I’d love to see you on the off-road games with Matt’s off road recovery 👍
Please tell me you are going to mount like a16ft Shasta camper on the back of this truck! Ultimate overlander 😎👌
I like that 60s gmc in the background. That would be cool to build.
Its nice seeing you again after all these years. Ive been watching yiur content since i was 5 years old. Well not specifically this channel but i remember watching dirt every day on my 3ds when dirt every day was on Netflix and being exited to see what was new on dirt every day
Very interesting and informative. Love the old school tech that I didn't know about. Quite a torque monster.
New road in front of the shop? Nice.
Nice dive in on the Dana 61 Fred. I definitely like the deep look into your older projects
Your incredible encyclopedic knowledge on all this is just mind blowing.
There is an "axle code" number for the Dana 61 rear that was available in the '70s for ford vans, but trucks had the regular 60.
According to Dana PDF document X510-9, your 610333-2 was a 1989 open 3.54 unit built for Chrysler in the D600 and D700 trucks. My first experience with a D61 was in the late 90's when I needed a replacement to my regular D60 rear in my '78 F250. I pulled a whole D61 from an '81 F250. I thought it was neat because it had larger 3.5" tubes with a heavier webbed chuck (similar to a 60HD I later found out). I eventually got a D70U from an '84 F250 6.9 so I junked the D61. You are right it is not a bad axle. I would run one any day over a Ford 78-79 D60 rear.
Edit: chunk... not "chuck"!
You are a wealth of knowledge Fred, I really enjoyed the video. 👍🏼
The 89 through 91.5 cummins auto equipped trucks all had the 3.07 gears because they only had the 727 non overdrive, non lock up with 1 to 1 final ratio. The 91.5 to 93 cummins auto equipped trucks had the A518 overdrive non lock up rigs so they had usually the 3.54 or4.11 option. The dana 70 rear axle in the 3.07 trucks were odd too, only ever in the 89 to 91.5's. Those ring and pinions have not been available for 20 years if you blow one up. I have had the pleasure of breaking 2 of them.
Same had to buy a new axle for my 91 cause a wheel bearing went bad and sliced the spindle off. Had to find a new housing then swap over gears and limited slip. The upside is now I have an extra set of axle shafts and 3.07 gears.
Fred, I've followed your career for many years, and it's time to say that THIS is the reason for it.
This video showcases everything.
Your protruding cranium is impressive, your explanations are simple, yet stuffed with information and easy to understand for the uninitiated, and the marked lack of hype is almost soothing in today's culture of extreme fajitas and explosive toothpaste...
I've been a fabricator/ mechanic my whole life, and it would be a dream come true to wrench under sumpin with bigfoot klunky tires and a rumpity bumpstick right beside you.
I have hopes of repowering my squarebody K35 suburban with a DT466 and Alison 4-speed auto, so let me know if you wanna help!!!
😂
Keep up the good work.
"... your protruding cranium is impressive..."
Great information. Might save a few people from scraping their Dana 61 they thought were Dana 60s. 👍🏼 Nice work.
thank you for all the great info in joy your weekend and thank you for sharing
One of my favorite builds you guys ever did
I love those isuzu npr trucks. I missed the build episode of you building up one.
Tellin every auto guy I know to subscribe here Fred. Motortrend did you dirty IMHO dude
My friend has a 1990 dodge w350 with a 61 in the front but he got lucky and it already has 4:56 gears and and arb airlocker in it, and it's a dually axle so it's got the internal spline warm hubs.
I’ve been looking at one of those. Been thinking about buying it to convert to 4x4 and put 37’s on it. I thought I was the only person who would do that😂😂😂😂
Just found you again Fred. Yay!!!!
A breakdown of parts used would be awesome,
Your informative videos are great! Coming from a Fred any added knowledge I can add to the brain box is great.
We've seen the Jeep FC peaking out from lots of videos on lots of different channels. But no builds! Starting to think there are only a few FCs and you guys take turns storing them in your garage/lot for interesting background infill. Or you hire a pink sasquatch to hang around.
Good info. Thanks Fred
So where's the NPR going? Will it be a Fred Williams AEV special build?
Thanks for the deep dive, always love them.
More tech, less bolt-on.
This was a good one.
I’ve had my share of happening across axles with random out of sequence internals and outers. Sometimes you you just want to close your eyes and walk away!!!
Good to see a waggy safe in the shop! Good stuff…
Man Fred, you was really chirping brodies in that Fast and furious rig😂
Thanks Fred that was really informative
I have a D61 in my 76 F250 RWD with a 390FE/C6. It's highway gearing was great for a 1:1 transmission and 30"ish tires. The tall gearing sucks when you're running 33" or taller tires though. Also the ability to go 55 MPH in 1st is kind of ridiculous lol.
Excellent description, like button energized.
Fred, it's barely 15 years old in my brain! 😂 when you first said an old axle out of an 89' I was thinking that's not that old. 😅
wow thats crazy. what did we do before the interweb. Great info
Our 1987 Econoline 250 has a Dana 61 rear with 3.54’s. With a 6.9 turbo, ZF5 and propane injection we’ve gotten 18MPG on the highway. Would have liked to have found that same rear with 3.08 gears. On the Cummins 4x4 Econoline van I’m building, I’m using the Super 60 you spoke of with 3.55’s.
Buy a Dana 71 out of an automatic first gen 89-91.5. Those have a 3.07s and should be a very straightforward swap from a Dana 60 rear.
Wow great information man amazing video much love and respect 🙏
That looks sick!!!!
I love this thing so much.
You should build a custom camper on the back of that thing
Really excellent presentation. Thank you.
I have a 91.5 dodge with six in a row under the hood and it’s got the 60 upfront but it’s never been abused everything still straight and true but one thing it always wore of the inside of the tires faster than the outside and there’s a company called stemp 600 that’s the part number and it’s pin eccentric anyways since I had those put in my front tires where even now anyway the Dana 60 still good axle there’s a company called Dyna track in California. I don’t know if they make front axles or not but they make very very good the rear axles, Dana 80s and things like that, all right this is six in a row Jim from Kennerdell, Pennsylvania
Is what I took from this is if you need passenger drop 60 and get one these on the cheap you can make it work just not as bolt on friendly
These trucks isuzu n series, toyota dyna, mitsubishi canter were 4x4 from factory in australia
Man, that thing has steering angle like a drift car!
That thing would make a bad ass camper
I love this easern block style cab over 4x4. Been wanting to build an npr man dakar type unimog for a while. Tons of gears, huge tires and monster axles. U1300s would be tits. Get crazy with the sticks and a nasty off big diesel like a dt466 or something similar. What crazy trans case deal could you run. Be nice to have 5 sticks to work with not including the pto
That would make a great hauler for Tube or Newb Sock.
freds the GOAT
Wish I would have picked up one of those hats back when they were still available. Merch time?
that thing is so cool
I run a d61 rear from a 73 e300 van. 456 with Detroit
My dad's 81 f250 4x4 had a rear dana61
My truck has a Dana 53 another weird strong axle
my fc also has a dana 53
Great video Fred!
Solid episode Fred!
Great info, thanks for sharing!
I thought about building one of these. Maybe put s small bus body on it making a expedition vehicle.
Got these axle in my w250
Great detail. Thanks
Just like that I want to build one of those trucks
So many burnouts getting into the garage. I thought I was watching Duleburger garage.
Great Video! Love the info!
I can't find Dana 61 Detroit locker part number 225SL19C anywhere. Several websites show them, but when you call them they say "Nope".
Its been many years and I can't remember the difference, but there is also a D45 thats a oddball. (Front)
Absolutely love it!
Could you do a complete build on making a steering Corp 14?
I’m pretty sure the the dodge axle I put under my k5 is a 61 but has 4:10s from factory
Check the TPS voltage on that thing. I think its causing the converter to lock up.
@@Look_What_You_Did WTF are you talking about?
I want that whole truck.
I feel like I should have taken notes!