I always wondered why people were talking about dry times up to 20 seconds and even more, when my writing only takes like 3-5 seconds to dry....well turns out all my inks are from pelikan xD now it makes sense. Pelikan seems perfect for lefties who tend to smeer their writing.
I have a few pens that I love, but they came with medium nib and produced thicker lines than I prefer, till I accidentally got a couple of Robert Oster (signature) inks and I was surprised to see what a difference it made! I’m not sure if we can call them “dry” ink or not (they are quite smooth, very good flow) but using these inks on pens such as Lamy 2000, Pelikan M800, Faber Castell e-Motion, Waterman Carene, Pilot VP, Twsbi 580 (all medium nib) and Sailor 1911 L (zoom), Platinum 3776 (broad) and Parker Duofold (this one with fine nib which is not quite “fine”!) they now produce quite thiner lines, much closer to the way I like/need them to write. Some other inks, such as Pelikan 4001, Parker Quink, Waterman, Private Reserve, and some regular Diamine are “okay” too, but they can’t mach Robert Oster inks. I have tried 6 different colors (all Signature) and they all perform the same. I use the other inks now for pens with fine and extra fine nibs, specially Japanese ones (or some medium nibs that I don't mind their thicker lines) and Robert Oster for those particular pens that I like to use on regular basis, longer notes and thiner lines. Sorry for the long not! I thought this experience might be reverent or useful . Now, dose anyone know any other brand to perform the same as or Similar to Robert Oster?
Thanks for this comment, I was about to send back my Lamy 2000 (Fine Nib). I was using it with Levenger Shades of Blue ink and the lines were thick and super wet. I changed it to Noodler's Bulletproof Black and is now writing as I wanted it.
Pen & nib size really do play a part when it comes to a wet writing ink. That said, Noodler's Apache Sunset & Air Corp Blue Black in my experiences are wet inks that flow really well, even in EF nibs. - Colin
Thanks! This has been one of those questions I've had, as well. I've only recently gotten into fountain pens and ink, so all this "wet" vs "dry" stuff has been very confusing. Thanks for explainining!
I love wet inks. I like being able to add water in between classes, etc to stretch it out. I used to refill the Noodlers free pen, using HoD, at least twice with water fountain water, before it became too perceptibly grey or too dry for my taste. To be clear, I added water when it was half full, not at full empty. That was my first ink, and I still have the original free pen - not using it these days, but it still works. Amazing brand, amazing stuff.
Liquid is measured with a viscometer. This measures how thick an ink is. This piece of equipment is several thousand dollars. A surfactant may be added to let an ink flow and wet out the paper. Staying wet is “open time”. This can be controlled by additives to speed up or slow down the evaporation rate. Water evaporation is slow and alcohol is much faster as an example. The ink is compounded with a range of properties in mind. They could be described as designed to do what the ink manufacturers want.
For some reason Pelikan 4001 Brilliant Brown in my Pelikan M200 (M) is incredibly smooth and not dry at all. I notice a big difference between Pelikan 4001 Royal Blue and Pelikan Edelstein Sapphire in my Pelikan M1000 (B) - The Edelstein is clearly wetter although the 4001 also flows ok once it gets started.
If you wish to compare the viscosity of various fountain pen inks, you may utilize a dropper to dispense inks onto test paper pieces all cut to the same size. To do so, gather the necessary materials, including the inks, paper, a dropper, and a scale with a precision of at least 0.1 grams. You may also desire to use a timer or stopwatch to measure the drying time of each ink. After ensuring that the inks are fully mixed and ready for use, cut the paper into uniform bits and dispense a sample of each ink onto a separate piece using the dropper. Record the weight of each sample using the scale and, if desired, measure the drying time of each ink using a timer or stopwatch. Finally, compare the results to determine which inks are more or less viscous.
I accidentally ordered noodler's eel black and found it a tad too wet. I them ordered noodler's black and found it a tad too dry. Anyone ever had experience with mixing the two? Would that be safe to use?
Perhaps someone else can say yes to your question but I will suggest that you mix two milliliters of each in a small vial, let it sit overnight, look for sludge or any other chemical reaction and if all looks good, try it out. Both inks are similar, but (I think) the Eel adds a little lubricant. Good luck!
Because of the different properties between the two, I would only try it out in small doses like Randy mentioned. We do have some ink sample package sets (www.gouletpens.com/ink-sample-packages-by-color/c/58) that you could try out as well to find the right Black for you. - Colin
Heads up Colin: I think the link you included in your note above fails because it treats the ending parenthesis as part of the URL. The link in the e'mail notice I received due to your comment works fine. Thanks for all you guys do there at Goulet Pens!
I kind of define dry ink those I can use for micro-calligraphy. The flow is limited, I can get really small clean writing using a Japanese fine. Wet ink are those I use for a bigger writing with the same fountain pen. They glide like a charm. But I can't get a neat micro-calligraphy. They flow too much.
Every pen with a brand new feed should only be used with wet inks for 6 months. After that you can start introducing dry inks gradually. After 1 year, pen can use whatever it wants. Very old pens also should limit their wet ink consumption to avoid leakage when idle.
Could you suggest some dryish waterproof inks? I like fast drying inks for quick note taking however normally they're not water proof as well, why is that? and what are the driest water proof inks you know? Also another difference you could add to compare wet and dry is that because less ink goes on the paper there is less bleed through even on cheap paper and you can write smaller as someone mentioned below. Overall loved the video particularly the mentions of dry inks and it was interesting to know why people would actually like wet inks (smoother writing) despite the drying issues which I would have thought would drive people away from them.
I think the process of making an ink waterproof negates a lot of fast-drying properties. Noodler's Black is definitely a go-to option for both though. Same with Noodler's 54th Massachusetts. Any of the De Atramentis Document Inks would work too! - Colin
Pilot blue black, it's economic, easy to clean and water resistant as it reacts with the cellulose on the paper which makes them like that but fall on the dry side and can be a pain on western fine pens , though a well tuned nib helps negate that.
An Ink Guy does viscosity measurements and has a video that shows how he does the measurements. He also lists viscosity measurements in each of his reviews. While it's not a true viscosity measurement, it is a way to quantitate the flow of inks consistently.
Actually it's a rather stupid term, it's just more or less viscous, menaing in less od more ink flow. You can modify your ink flow changing and adjusting the nib, so you get your personal preference of ink flow, matching the ink you are using. I like dry strokes cause it dries faster and saves me ink so I dont have to refill every time, even though I use super "wet" (thin) inks. Yes I use pens for regular writting, I am not trying to impress anyone, it's just a tool to me. Ha, ha, ha. The term shoud be changed to thin or think ink IMO.
Doodlebud in the last 6 months has tried using capillary tubes to help determine a repeatable measurable difference between wet and dry inks. Watch his video and see if this may be one way to answer the dry wet question that is more scientific as it relates to fountain pen inks.
What I'm disappointed with the Pen World is the terminolgy confusion. Wet and dry inks, wet and dry pens and now more or less saturated ink. Someone needs to better standardized these descriptors.
runexheart Thanks for mentioning what does and doesn't work with the rollerball. Mine currently writes too wet but I never considered using a drier ink before so I'll have to see if I can hunt down that ink you two mentioned.
I have a blue-black pelikan 4001ink and I can't make it work with my Lamy Safari (fine nib). When I tried to use it I had flow problems in question of minutes or hours, the nib was dry and stopped writing altogether. I disassembled the pen and there was what seemed to be dried ink in the nib but despite cleaning thoroughly all the parts I had the same problem again. Does anyone have the same problem? There's something I can do to fix it? Like dilute the ink with something... My Pelikan 4001 green works great but I love the blue color :'(. TIA
What about Robert Oster's Pinky? I love the color but I feel like it's a drier ink (compared to all my others) but I don't remember I've seen anything about this ink being on the dry side. Any experience?
I feel like you can't judge the wetness of an ink by how it sits on the paper. For instance I find Noodlers 54th to be a reasonably wet ink but it seeps into the paper a lot, like it dries relatively quick (this is on rhodia 80gsm). Now if wet look at J. Herbins Rouille D'Ancre, this I find to be a drier ink but likes to sit on top of the paper. I find the wetness of ink depends on the volume of ink that comes out of your pen per second and is mostly all in feeling and very hard to explain.
Yeah, that's why this is a difficult subject to tackle really. Paper & nib play a huge part in what the ink feels like. Personal experience should really rule here. - Colin
I find moving my arm when writing to be the best way when it comes to fountain pens. The ink just flows out nice & less stress on the hand over a long period of time. - Colin
Parker Quink is a good standby, though underwhelming. Very conventional & safe colors, so a good option for a strict work environment, but I prefer lots of other brands over it. - Colin
I always wondered why people were talking about dry times up to 20 seconds and even more, when my writing only takes like 3-5 seconds to dry....well turns out all my inks are from pelikan xD now it makes sense.
Pelikan seems perfect for lefties who tend to smeer their writing.
Yeah, definitely the driest ink I've used. Noodler's Bernanke inks are similar, fast-drying. - Colin
I have a few pens that I love, but they came with medium nib and produced thicker lines than I prefer, till I accidentally got a couple of Robert Oster (signature) inks and I was surprised to see what a difference it made! I’m not sure if we can call them “dry” ink or not (they are quite smooth, very good flow) but using these inks on pens such as Lamy 2000, Pelikan M800, Faber Castell e-Motion, Waterman Carene, Pilot VP, Twsbi 580 (all medium nib) and Sailor 1911 L (zoom), Platinum 3776 (broad) and Parker Duofold (this one with fine nib which is not quite “fine”!) they now produce quite thiner lines, much closer to the way I like/need them to write. Some other inks, such as Pelikan 4001, Parker Quink, Waterman, Private Reserve, and some regular Diamine are “okay” too, but they can’t mach Robert Oster inks. I have tried 6 different colors (all Signature) and they all perform the same. I use the other inks now for pens with fine and extra fine nibs, specially Japanese ones (or some medium nibs that I don't mind their thicker lines) and Robert Oster for those particular pens that I like to use on regular basis, longer notes and thiner lines.
Sorry for the long not! I thought this experience might be reverent or useful . Now, dose anyone know any other brand to perform the same as or Similar to Robert Oster?
Thanks for this comment, I was about to send back my Lamy 2000 (Fine Nib). I was using it with Levenger Shades of Blue ink and the lines were thick and super wet. I changed it to Noodler's Bulletproof Black and is now writing as I wanted it.
What are your top favorite wet inks? I love when a pen writes wet, and I am currently using the Noodler's Bulletproof Black, but I find it a bit dry.
Pen & nib size really do play a part when it comes to a wet writing ink. That said, Noodler's Apache Sunset & Air Corp Blue Black in my experiences are wet inks that flow really well, even in EF nibs. - Colin
Thanks! This has been one of those questions I've had, as well. I've only recently gotten into fountain pens and ink, so all this "wet" vs "dry" stuff has been very confusing. Thanks for explainining!
I love wet inks. I like being able to add water in between classes, etc to stretch it out. I used to refill the Noodlers free pen, using HoD, at least twice with water fountain water, before it became too perceptibly grey or too dry for my taste. To be clear, I added water when it was half full, not at full empty. That was my first ink, and I still have the original free pen - not using it these days, but it still works. Amazing brand, amazing stuff.
Liquid is measured with a viscometer. This measures how thick an ink is. This piece of equipment is several thousand dollars.
A surfactant may be added to let an ink flow and wet out the paper.
Staying wet is “open time”. This can be controlled by additives to speed up or slow down the evaporation rate. Water evaporation is slow and alcohol is much faster as an example.
The ink is compounded with a range of properties in mind. They could be described as designed to do what the ink manufacturers want.
I feel like it’s very obvious what wet vs dry inks will be if you’ve experienced the difference.
You're right! It's easy to know it when it's happening. - Drew
Aurora black isn’t really extremely wet, though it is wetter than the Pelican. The Japanese brands are all very wet inks.
For some reason Pelikan 4001 Brilliant Brown in my Pelikan M200 (M) is incredibly smooth and not dry at all. I notice a big difference between Pelikan 4001 Royal Blue and Pelikan Edelstein Sapphire in my Pelikan M1000 (B) - The Edelstein is clearly wetter although the 4001 also flows ok once it gets started.
If you wish to compare the viscosity of various fountain pen inks, you may utilize a dropper to dispense inks onto test paper pieces all cut to the same size. To do so, gather the necessary materials, including the inks, paper, a dropper, and a scale with a precision of at least 0.1 grams. You may also desire to use a timer or stopwatch to measure the drying time of each ink. After ensuring that the inks are fully mixed and ready for use, cut the paper into uniform bits and dispense a sample of each ink onto a separate piece using the dropper. Record the weight of each sample using the scale and, if desired, measure the drying time of each ink using a timer or stopwatch. Finally, compare the results to determine which inks are more or less viscous.
I accidentally ordered noodler's eel black and found it a tad too wet. I them ordered noodler's black and found it a tad too dry. Anyone ever had experience with mixing the two? Would that be safe to use?
Perhaps someone else can say yes to your question but I will suggest that you mix two milliliters of each in a small vial, let it sit overnight, look for sludge or any other chemical reaction and if all looks good, try it out. Both inks are similar, but (I think) the Eel adds a little lubricant. Good luck!
Because of the different properties between the two, I would only try it out in small doses like Randy mentioned. We do have some ink sample package sets (www.gouletpens.com/ink-sample-packages-by-color/c/58) that you could try out as well to find the right Black for you. - Colin
Heads up Colin: I think the link you included in your note above fails because it treats the ending parenthesis as part of the URL. The link in the e'mail notice I received due to your comment works fine. Thanks for all you guys do there at Goulet Pens!
I kind of define dry ink those I can use for micro-calligraphy. The flow is limited, I can get really small clean writing using a Japanese fine. Wet ink are those I use for a bigger writing with the same fountain pen. They glide like a charm. But I can't get a neat micro-calligraphy. They flow too much.
Every pen with a brand new feed should only be used with wet inks for 6 months. After that you can start introducing dry inks gradually. After 1 year, pen can use whatever it wants. Very old pens also should limit their wet ink consumption to avoid leakage when idle.
Could you suggest some dryish waterproof inks? I like fast drying inks for quick note taking however normally they're not water proof as well, why is that? and what are the driest water proof inks you know?
Also another difference you could add to compare wet and dry is that because less ink goes on the paper there is less bleed through even on cheap paper and you can write smaller as someone mentioned below.
Overall loved the video particularly the mentions of dry inks and it was interesting to know why people would actually like wet inks (smoother writing) despite the drying issues which I would have thought would drive people away from them.
I think the process of making an ink waterproof negates a lot of fast-drying properties. Noodler's Black is definitely a go-to option for both though. Same with Noodler's 54th Massachusetts. Any of the De Atramentis Document Inks would work too! - Colin
The Goulet Pen Company Ah I see. Thanks for the suggestions! :)
MegGreen5Twilight Personally, I feel that Rohrer & Klingner Scabiosa is on the dry side. Its a light dusty purple colour.
Samantha Lee Thanks for the suggestions, Samantha! :)
Pilot blue black, it's economic, easy to clean and water resistant as it reacts with the cellulose on the paper which makes them like that but fall on the dry side and can be a pain on western fine pens , though a well tuned nib helps negate that.
An Ink Guy does viscosity measurements and has a video that shows how he does the measurements. He also lists viscosity measurements in each of his reviews. While it's not a true viscosity measurement, it is a way to quantitate the flow of inks consistently.
Actually it's a rather stupid term, it's just more or less viscous, menaing in less od more ink flow. You can modify your ink flow changing and adjusting the nib, so you get your personal preference of ink flow, matching the ink you are using. I like dry strokes cause it dries faster and saves me ink so I dont have to refill every time, even though I use super "wet" (thin) inks. Yes I use pens for regular writting, I am not trying to impress anyone, it's just a tool to me. Ha, ha, ha. The term shoud be changed to thin or think ink IMO.
Doodlebud in the last 6 months has tried using capillary tubes to help determine a repeatable measurable difference between wet and dry inks. Watch his video and see if this may be one way to answer the dry wet question that is more scientific as it relates to fountain pen inks.
What I'm disappointed with the Pen World is the terminolgy confusion. Wet and dry inks, wet and dry pens and now more or less saturated ink. Someone needs to better standardized these descriptors.
Talking about pens, nibs are also classified as DRY or WET !!!! 🤦
Would the Stub Nibs be classified as a Wet Nib ?
When you said dry, J Herbin Lie de The came to mind right away.
Larmes De Cassis is worse :( the Herbin rollerball is ok with Lis de The, but it couldn't cope with Larmes de Cassis at all
runexheart Thanks for mentioning what does and doesn't work with the rollerball. Mine currently writes too wet but I never considered using a drier ink before so I'll have to see if I can hunt down that ink you two mentioned.
I just got barnake blue and it’s very dry. By the time I do a finger test it’s already dry lol
I have a blue-black pelikan 4001ink and I can't make it work with my Lamy Safari (fine nib). When I tried to use it I had flow problems in question of minutes or hours, the nib was dry and stopped writing altogether. I disassembled the pen and there was what seemed to be dried ink in the nib but despite cleaning thoroughly all the parts I had the same problem again. Does anyone have the same problem? There's something I can do to fix it? Like dilute the ink with something... My Pelikan 4001 green works great but I love the blue color :'(. TIA
did you ever find out why ?
Smashing, thanks. Helps a lot.
What camera and zoom setup do you use?
😂😂😂😂
What about Robert Oster's Pinky? I love the color but I feel like it's a drier ink (compared to all my others) but I don't remember I've seen anything about this ink being on the dry side. Any experience?
In general, I've found Robert Oster inks to be on the dry side, so that is probably the case with Pinky. - Colin
Ah ok, thanks! Good to know!
Thanks!!! Very nice!!!
I feel like you can't judge the wetness of an ink by how it sits on the paper. For instance I find Noodlers 54th to be a reasonably wet ink but it seeps into the paper a lot, like it dries relatively quick (this is on rhodia 80gsm). Now if wet look at J. Herbins Rouille D'Ancre, this I find to be a drier ink but likes to sit on top of the paper. I find the wetness of ink depends on the volume of ink that comes out of your pen per second and is mostly all in feeling and very hard to explain.
Yeah, that's why this is a difficult subject to tackle really. Paper & nib play a huge part in what the ink feels like. Personal experience should really rule here. - Colin
Do you write by moving your finger, your hand or your arm ?
I find moving my arm when writing to be the best way when it comes to fountain pens. The ink just flows out nice & less stress on the hand over a long period of time. - Colin
I never felt Pelikan 4001 as dry,
and what are your thoughts on Parker Quink inks?
Parker Quink is a good standby, though underwhelming. Very conventional & safe colors, so a good option for a strict work environment, but I prefer lots of other brands over it. - Colin
Can Pelikan 4001 be a ink for Students?
Yeah, it's a well-behaved ink that dries pretty quickly, so definitely a good option for students. - Colin
Thanks,
That's why you Channel famous for