I enjoyed that immensely. My personal faith has been made real by determining to understand Jesus as the incarnated Logos. Your presentation made me feel as if I'm on the right track. Thank you.
Thank you for this first principle lecture. This is one to deeply contemplate over and over. The misinterpretation of Logos as words (language) is where humanity went off the rails. Tower of Babel?
Thanks for supporting the channel! We’d love to connect with you in the future, please email us at info@centreplace.ca or join us on our Facebook and Instagram account! Have a wonderful day.
This was a really fun lecture. I’d love to suggest one about the religions of the second great awakening. Adventists, Jehovah’s witnesses, and Christian Scientists in particular.
It would be wonderful if closed captioning were available for these videos. Even if a written text isn't created for these lectures, I believe auto-generated captions can be used. It would be greatly appreciated! Thank you all.
on 1:19hr i think the precise way of understanding angels is to start with saying, “angels are also words that are good words and angels are also words that are evil words, since angels are ideas that are words we use everyday”
I feel like I became aware of the World (not enlightened, just on the path) just before or during the early stages of puberty (about 11 or 12 years old) and one of the first things that boggled my mind was the idea of gender in language, why the Latin-based languages are preoccupied by masculine and feminine vocabulary, for example. It still makes no sense to me and I’m quite sure it’s the creation of someone who was charismatic, funny, and had impact in their early sapien/late erectus tribe who convinced his or her clan mates of the fun of naming things using properties of objects based on sex. There may have been no sophistication at that time for anyone of similar charisma and status to argue against this approach. Something as simple and weird as that, and now we have all this complexity in not only language but in philosophical concepts and assigned mythological gods. Communication may be the origin of humanity, “In the beginning was the word.” can be a fun and informative meditation/contemplation. Killer cool lecture , John, speaking of examples in very popular Christianity is the story of Moses and the great staff/serpent duel in which children are exposed to multiple gods in the Bible. Ezekiel is a total freak out and is one of those compendium books in which the Hebrew scholars placed wrath of god pronouncements down through history. “logos” and the mad ravings elsewhere in Ezekiel was a unique take.
When I was younger, I thought I blasphemed the Holy Spirit and didn't even know what it was. I still don't know what it is, but I know that i didn't blaspheme it.
If the father gave Jacob to one of his sons, does this seem to parallel the idea of a divine father spirit and angels? and if so, could the gnostics be onto something about a lesser divinity, or the satan even?
I understand that Philo may have conceived logos as a literal secondary being with God in the beginning. I also understand that some early christian thinkers may have as well. However what leads us to believe that John thought of word/wisdom as literal existing beings with God rather than metaphoric besides conjecture from philo or 2nd century and onward interpretation.
Knocked another one outta the park! I have to admit that when John backed up as far as discussing henotheism, monolatry, and monotheism i wondered if we had wandered too far afield. Nope. It was all important and it all pulled together beautifully. I think anybody who watches this will have a much better understanding or appreciation of Wisdom/Logos.
The breath of God permeates the air and space. It is omnipresent. God is mind and breath/spirit is also consciousness. The mind is linked to spirit. The son has the body the father is mind and his breath is a powerful force that is used to give life, wisdom and anointed persons to adopt these as sons .humans become sons of God this way.
I come from a Unitarian Christian background and I always understood concepts of God’s Word, Wisdom, Spirit, Presence, etc. as merely “expressions” or “emanations” (for lack of better words) of the one God, whom Jesus and the apostles called the Father. These were made known through Jesus, as anointed king, prophet, apostle, high priest, judge, and overall perfect representative and supreme agent of the one God.
Not entirely. The historical Jesus was an apocalyptic preacher who thought and taught that the world was ending very soon, so people needed to repent and observe his interpretation of the Law, which includes concern for the poor, as prophets centuries before him preached. The world didn’t end when he said it would, so people adjusted to reality. (Also, pretty bigoted of you to make prejudicial statements, especially in a channel run by a local CoC church reaching out to a global, interfaith audience.)
I like the tradition of Mary Magdalene being the embodiment of Sophia in the way that John's Jesus is the embodiment of Logos. I also wonder if the Chokma of Proverbs was originally Asherah, or a daughter of Asherah. In literary terms, I like the idea of an Ein Sof unknowable force at the top/beginning, giving rise to El Yon/El Shaddai and Asherah/Chokma, and from them are born all the lesser gods, messengers, and sheddim of the world, including all the national gods. Then, as always happens as religions evolve, the position of highest ruler slowly passes from one idyllic figure to another. I can't help but think people are ready for Wisdom to be in charge again (though of course that can mean quite different things to different people).
Our pop culture idea of True Love (derived I suppose from fairy stories) is that it's a desire and will for the good of the beloved. It might be a theologically useful conception.
Hour 1:20:00 there was an error in Q&A where the speaker said the word for Wisdom in Hebrew is not feminine. Greek Sophia is equivalent with Hebrew Chokmah where both words are feminine. This is reflected from El and his consort Queen of Heaven Asherah with his 70 sons including Yahweh and Baal. That's how Joseph Smith Jr portrayed the battle between Jesus and Lucifer in Mormon theology. Mormon theology is consistent with pre Israelites proto Canaanite religion.
12:44 - Care to discuss these contradictions? I have resolved the 'gap' in Genesis, have a theodicy that vindicates the existence of evil, can explain why Jesus was called the 'word', why He always referred to 'the' son of man in the 3rd person, as well as explain what the leaders of the time did not know that would have stayed the unecessary execution of Jesus the Christ, and even what Jesus wrote in the sand. Either way - response or not - I have fulfilled Isaiah 52:15. Please note that I am anxious to get started... there's a war going on. Thanks.
Holy Spirit = Spirit of Wholeness. God = Life Jesus = Humane Humanity Christ = at One with Life Spirit of Wholeness/Holy Spirit = integral Way of Being, Knowing and Doing. Psyche/Soul: Mind = Inspiration Heart = Aspiration Will = Volition Integration = Integrity = Soul When the Heart aspires, the Mind inquires and the Will conspires (combines). 'Now' is the presence of the eternal/infinite within the temporal/finite. Now is constant. Perception is variable. The time of day is always Now. Life/God eternally actualizes infinite potential, because only Eternity can fully embrace Infinity. We are Life at Large, experiencing itself as all of us simultaneously. Therefore, we are all It to an unknowable/inhaustible extent, as the facets of a Diamond are 'both' distinct from each other 'and' the Diamond itself. Love is the recognition of our shared Being. The abstract (Heaven) called Love can be expressed concretely (Earth) as a smile, hug, etc., thereby uniting Heaven and Earth. One who knows when to stop is forever safe.
So it can be seen that the Holy Spirit is the spiritual, ethereal manifestation of God, whereas Christ is the corporeal manifestation. All three are portrayed as equal in the Trinity because no particular manifestation of God is less holy than God Himself. In Catholicism, Divine Wisdom is manifested in Mary, partly explaining her veneration.
Altought "ruach" is mistranslated as a "spirit"; right translation is "levitated thing" or "thing, which is making whirlwind" (see Mauro Biligno´s work)
Another mistranslation: so called "glory of the Lord" is in Aramaic "kavod"; and this is literally "heavy flying thing". Now true meaning is "heavy flying thing is appearing in the cloud, look like consuming fire on the top of the mountain..." What do you imagine under this description?🙃
Ezekiel Face of a man. Aquarius ♒ Face of lion. Leo ♌ Face of ox (bull) taurus ♉ Face of eagle. Scorpio ♏ (eagle also used in Ancient times for Scorpio ) Ezekiel is describing the 4 cardinal signs of the zodiac
It seems likely that Ezekiel is alluding to the four tipping-points of the annual cycle; two equinoxes and two solstices. In The Apocalypse these then become reference points for the four gospels, according to Patristic interpretations. That is, John the seer uses the references to 'the four living creatures' to establish a link both to the visions in Ezekiel 1 and 10, and to contextualise his own book vis-a-vis the canonical gospels. But what lies at the heart of both Ezekiel's and John's use of such astronomical references is the concept of time, just as it forms the basis of the first creation narrative - the story of the first seven days.
Genesis chapter 1 tells us that God created man in his image, and after his likeness; MALE AND FEMALE. It clearly tells us that our Creators are Male and Female. One spoke to the other and said "Let US make man in OUR image and after OUR likeness. PLURAL. I don't know why so many Christians vehemently insist that a healthy family is comprised of a mother and father, yet refuse to acknowledge their Heavenly Mother! I guess they think God lied to them in the Bible, or something and that he didn't REALLY mean that we were created in their image and likeness, but that God is only masculine, who created man and woman and said they were created in the image of the Divine, but didn't really mean it... Or something. It doesn't make sense to me... Why don't people THINK FOR THEMSELVES instead of just believing what they've been taught and fighting to defend erroneous beliefs?
This lecture reminds me of the Leave It to Beaver episode where the kids spread barrel hoops on the lawn and Fred Rutherford comes out of the house and stumbles around in them, banging up his shins. Christians believe in the Trinity - Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Mary and Sophia are Saints, not God, in the Roman Catholic Church, the one, true religion.
1:07:01 "trancends" is a COMPLETE inversion of or misunderstanding of the Devine Principle here: "God" is God The Father and God The Mother as one, the exact same way a man and woman come together to create life. GOD should be understood as an eternal couple. God in no way transcends gender God defines gender as male and female. This Devine Principle is CLEARLY evident in all things.
Surely one of the most brilliant minds and lecturers out there!
John: in a crazy world, your voice and content bring a needed calmness to me. Thank you.
I agree
Just found this pod cast. Absolutely love learning from this guy. I'm hooked
Me 2
I enjoyed that immensely. My personal faith has been made real by determining to understand Jesus as the incarnated Logos.
Your presentation made me feel as if I'm on the right track.
Thank you.
I’m glad you put Malkam in the middle
Sophia is the line that connects the Three; the divine being that connects divine doing to make a whole ❤
Thank you John. Interesting. I enjoy your lectures and so much knowledge that you share. Kathy from Ft. Collins, Co. Congregation.
Will have to listen to this one again, as I am a bit slow.
Thanks for another good talk. 👍✌️
Yes a no nonsense approach is very much appreciated my friend.
Thank you for this first principle lecture. This is one to deeply contemplate over and over. The misinterpretation of Logos as words (language) is where humanity went off the rails. Tower of Babel?
Thanks for supporting the channel! We’d love to connect with you in the future, please email us at info@centreplace.ca or join us on our Facebook and Instagram account! Have a wonderful day.
This was a really fun lecture.
I’d love to suggest one about the religions of the second great awakening. Adventists, Jehovah’s witnesses, and Christian Scientists in particular.
Thanks!
Excelent and interesting presentation.
It would be wonderful if closed captioning were available for these videos. Even if a written text isn't created for these lectures, I believe auto-generated captions can be used. It would be greatly appreciated! Thank you all.
They have CC, but usually I have to wait a few hours for the YT auto-generated CC to show.
They should be available now 👍
Thanks so much John
Heck yeah brother
Glory of god coming through the clouds..
That walks on water..
Is the light of the world
Turns water into wine...
The sun ☀
Thank you,very facinating.can you speak about God forming eve from Adam not from himself?.
on 1:19hr i think the precise way of understanding angels is to start with saying, “angels are also words that are good words and angels are also words that are evil words, since angels are ideas that are words we use everyday”
No kabbalah.
I feel like I became aware of the World (not enlightened, just on the path) just before or during the early stages of puberty (about 11 or 12 years old) and one of the first things that boggled my mind was the idea of gender in language, why the Latin-based languages are preoccupied by masculine and feminine vocabulary, for example. It still makes no sense to me and I’m quite sure it’s the creation of someone who was charismatic, funny, and had impact in their early sapien/late erectus tribe who convinced his or her clan mates of the fun of naming things using properties of objects based on sex. There may have been no sophistication at that time for anyone of similar charisma and status to argue against this approach. Something as simple and weird as that, and now we have all this complexity in not only language but in philosophical concepts and assigned mythological gods. Communication may be the origin of humanity, “In the beginning was the word.” can be a fun and informative meditation/contemplation. Killer cool lecture , John, speaking of examples in very popular Christianity is the story of Moses and the great staff/serpent duel in which children are exposed to multiple gods in the Bible. Ezekiel is a total freak out and is one of those compendium books in which the Hebrew scholars placed wrath of god pronouncements down through history. “logos” and the mad ravings elsewhere in Ezekiel was a unique take.
When I was younger, I thought I blasphemed the Holy Spirit and didn't even know what it was. I still don't know what it is, but I know that i didn't blaspheme it.
How do you even do that
@@nosuchthing8 Misinformation and 19 years old
Holy spirit 🙏
If the father gave Jacob to one of his sons, does this seem to parallel the idea of a divine father spirit and angels? and if so, could the gnostics be onto something about a lesser divinity, or the satan even?
I understand that Philo may have conceived logos as a literal secondary being with God in the beginning. I also understand that some early christian thinkers may have as well.
However what leads us to believe that John thought of word/wisdom as literal existing beings with God rather than metaphoric besides conjecture from philo or 2nd century and onward interpretation.
Good job. One correction: the Hebrew word for wisdom is Hochma and it is feminine.
Knocked another one outta the park!
I have to admit that when John backed up as far as discussing henotheism, monolatry, and monotheism i wondered if we had wandered too far afield. Nope. It was all important and it all pulled together beautifully. I think anybody who watches this will have a much better understanding or appreciation of Wisdom/Logos.
The breath of God permeates the air and space. It is omnipresent. God is mind and breath/spirit is also consciousness. The mind is linked to spirit. The son has the body the father is mind and his breath is a powerful force that is used to give life, wisdom and anointed persons to adopt these as sons .humans become sons of God this way.
I am interested in how you pronounce Hagia, I’m assuming that’s Greek. I usually hear it as Hi-Ya
I think that's about right.
In Greek, sometimes the H sound falls out, and the G sound is softened, so you will often here "Aya Sophia" as well as Hagia Sophia. @@alanpennie
I come from a Unitarian Christian background and I always understood concepts of God’s Word, Wisdom, Spirit, Presence, etc. as merely “expressions” or “emanations” (for lack of better words) of the one God, whom Jesus and the apostles called the Father. These were made known through Jesus, as anointed king, prophet, apostle, high priest, judge, and overall perfect representative and supreme agent of the one God.
Jesus is about helping the poor not going church listening misreads
Not entirely. The historical Jesus was an apocalyptic preacher who thought and taught that the world was ending very soon, so people needed to repent and observe his interpretation of the Law, which includes concern for the poor, as prophets centuries before him preached. The world didn’t end when he said it would, so people adjusted to reality. (Also, pretty bigoted of you to make prejudicial statements, especially in a channel run by a local CoC church reaching out to a global, interfaith audience.)
No one said God was a Greek concept, you came up with that all on your own based on literally nothing.
Makes no sense and is irrelevant to the video.
You’re just here to waste people’s time promotinh your twisted dogmatic propoganda channel. BIG NO THANKS.
I like the tradition of Mary Magdalene being the embodiment of Sophia in the way that John's Jesus is the embodiment of Logos. I also wonder if the Chokma of Proverbs was originally Asherah, or a daughter of Asherah.
In literary terms, I like the idea of an Ein Sof unknowable force at the top/beginning, giving rise to El Yon/El Shaddai and Asherah/Chokma, and from them are born all the lesser gods, messengers, and sheddim of the world, including all the national gods. Then, as always happens as religions evolve, the position of highest ruler slowly passes from one idyllic figure to another. I can't help but think people are ready for Wisdom to be in charge again (though of course that can mean quite different things to different people).
Our pop culture idea of True Love (derived I suppose from fairy stories) is that it's a desire and will for the good of the beloved.
It might be a theologically useful conception.
Hour 1:20:00 there was an error in Q&A where the speaker said the word for Wisdom in Hebrew is not feminine. Greek Sophia is equivalent with Hebrew Chokmah where both words are feminine. This is reflected from El and his consort Queen of Heaven Asherah with his 70 sons including Yahweh and Baal. That's how Joseph Smith Jr portrayed the battle between Jesus and Lucifer in Mormon theology. Mormon theology is consistent with pre Israelites proto Canaanite religion.
12:44 - Care to discuss these contradictions? I have resolved the 'gap' in Genesis, have a theodicy that vindicates the existence of evil, can explain why Jesus was called the 'word', why He always referred to 'the' son of man in the 3rd person, as well as explain what the leaders of the time did not know that would have stayed the unecessary execution of Jesus the Christ, and even what Jesus wrote in the sand.
Either way - response or not - I have fulfilled Isaiah 52:15.
Please note that I am anxious to get started... there's a war going on.
Thanks.
34:10 that describes an experience on a "heroic dose" of shrooms.
Pillar of cloud by day
Pillar if fire by night..
A volcano 🌋
no ....a chariot of the gods (merkaba ) ophanim , the wheels of Ezekiel,
Holy Spirit = Spirit of Wholeness.
God = Life
Jesus = Humane Humanity
Christ = at One with Life
Spirit of Wholeness/Holy Spirit = integral Way of Being, Knowing and Doing.
Psyche/Soul:
Mind = Inspiration
Heart = Aspiration
Will = Volition
Integration = Integrity = Soul
When the Heart aspires, the Mind inquires and the Will conspires (combines).
'Now' is the presence of the eternal/infinite within the temporal/finite.
Now is constant. Perception is variable.
The time of day is always Now.
Life/God eternally actualizes infinite potential, because only Eternity can fully embrace Infinity.
We are Life at Large, experiencing itself as all of us simultaneously. Therefore, we are all It to an unknowable/inhaustible extent, as the facets of a Diamond are 'both' distinct from each other 'and' the Diamond itself.
Love is the recognition of our shared Being.
The abstract (Heaven) called Love can be expressed concretely (Earth) as a smile, hug, etc., thereby uniting Heaven and Earth.
One who knows when to stop is forever safe.
So it can be seen that the Holy Spirit is the spiritual, ethereal manifestation of God, whereas Christ is the corporeal manifestation. All three are portrayed as equal in the Trinity because no particular manifestation of God is less holy than God Himself.
In Catholicism, Divine Wisdom is manifested in Mary, partly explaining her veneration.
@JettedGod-ward Nothing but daft semantics and unnecessary contrarianism.
Altought "ruach" is mistranslated as a "spirit"; right translation is "levitated thing" or "thing, which is making whirlwind" (see Mauro Biligno´s work)
Another mistranslation: so called "glory of the Lord" is in Aramaic "kavod"; and this is literally "heavy flying thing". Now true meaning is "heavy flying thing is appearing in the cloud, look like consuming fire on the top of the mountain..." What do you imagine under this description?🙃
Hello everyone.🎉
Holy Spirit could be seen as the existence of God in all of its creation.
Whoa that’s how I interpreted it as well, or humanity as a whole. They described Jesus as the logos made flesh.
Ezekiel
Face of a man. Aquarius ♒
Face of lion. Leo ♌
Face of ox (bull) taurus ♉
Face of eagle. Scorpio ♏ (eagle also used in Ancient times for Scorpio )
Ezekiel is describing the 4 cardinal signs of the zodiac
It seems likely that Ezekiel is alluding to the four tipping-points of the annual cycle; two equinoxes and two solstices. In The Apocalypse these then become reference points for the four gospels, according to Patristic interpretations. That is, John the seer uses the references to 'the four living creatures' to establish a link both to the visions in Ezekiel 1 and 10, and to contextualise his own book vis-a-vis the canonical gospels. But what lies at the heart of both Ezekiel's and John's use of such astronomical references is the concept of time, just as it forms the basis of the first creation narrative - the story of the first seven days.
The ancient Hebrew word for wisdom is khokma (חָכְמָה) is a feminine word.
OBJECTIVITY
Genesis chapter 1 tells us that God created man in his image, and after his likeness; MALE AND FEMALE. It clearly tells us that our Creators are Male and Female. One spoke to the other and said "Let US make man in OUR image and after OUR likeness. PLURAL.
I don't know why so many Christians vehemently insist that a healthy family is comprised of a mother and father, yet refuse to acknowledge their Heavenly Mother! I guess they think God lied to them in the Bible, or something and that he didn't REALLY mean that we were created in their image and likeness, but that God is only masculine, who created man and woman and said they were created in the image of the Divine, but didn't really mean it... Or something.
It doesn't make sense to me... Why don't people THINK FOR THEMSELVES instead of just believing what they've been taught and fighting to defend erroneous beliefs?
This lecture reminds me of the Leave It to Beaver episode where the kids spread barrel hoops on the lawn and Fred Rutherford comes out of the house and stumbles around in them, banging up his shins. Christians believe in the Trinity - Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Mary and Sophia are Saints, not God, in the Roman Catholic Church, the one, true religion.
1:07:01 "trancends" is a COMPLETE inversion of or misunderstanding of the Devine Principle here: "God" is God The Father and God The Mother as one, the exact same way a man and woman come together to create life. GOD should be understood as an eternal couple.
God in no way transcends gender God defines gender as male and female. This Devine Principle is CLEARLY evident in all things.
Where's mess-oh-pot-ay-me-ah? Right next to sue-marry-ah
Human cant smell blood but wolf can, was noahs god beast
Hahahahaha
1:07:09 this last part about gender is completely absurd.
Burning tree was oil and god didnt look like santa claus or even human before somebody with white beard wrote so
Holy Spirit... see 0 x 0 = God
And yes... I know about the 'IT', and have for a long time.
Really ungood
Jews started worship sun god when egypt slaves, then jesus whispered judas those rets worship wrong god
Holy Wisdom is the rebellious get UTTERLY DESTROYED, AND THATS THE WORD OF YEHOVAH YESHUA. JEREMIAH 51: GET OUT OF BABYLON AND BACK TO ZION!!