The Geiger universe seems to be a mishmash of DC characters and concepts that John’s had ideas for but never worked on. There are parallels to G.I. Robot, Weird War Tales, Atomic Knights, etc. He even used the old checker board pattern on the top of his books like DC in the silver age
It is kinda ballsy to start a new comic company considering that most seem to be struggling to different degrees, and many great books have been canceled due to poor sales. Still, I wish them luck.
In the mid 2000s I lived and taught English to university students in Istanbul, Budapest and Prague. I was amazed at how comics/graphic novels and magazines/newspapers devoted to only comics/cartoonists is so integrated into European culture and all over newsstands. In Turkey, nobody can criticize the president EXCEPT political cartoonists. We had the "underground comics" movement here in the late '60s/'70s but its still going strong in Europe (and Asia obviously w/ Manga), especially France. I wish we had the same culture of respect for comics here in the US.
@@kalenberreman8252 A lot of comic stores have been struggling to make end's meet and have been closing up. This is why a lot of comic store focus more on board games than actual comics.
It's not really a new comic company. They're using Image as a publisher. Ultimately the only thing they are risking is their own time and given how successful they are, there's not much of a gamble. If this tanks it's not like Gary Frank is going to be ruined. He'll just go back to drawing for Marvel or DC.
Seems like any commercial creative venture with shared profit is likely to end up in a conflict where someone gets mad because he thinks other people who "aren't bringing their A game" are making money of his success.
In 2022, Geoff Johns came to my town and talked about a lot of things he was about to write in the following times. He mentioned and showed a preview of Junkyard Joe, and talked a little bit about his other Image stuff. He also mentioned the current "The Golden Age" stuff he is writting for DC, including the Lost Children and Jay Garrick's daughter. Those were some big reveals but I feel they weren't covered by press because it happened in a city that isn't even the most popular of Argentina.
I want to believe in this and the comics, not for the sake of movie deals or tv show deals, i care about the comic books and just want the best for the industry
It's very rare to see you do a whole video on a hate take, and yet it is still well edited as well as well-researched. That's a level of dedication to the craft.
"Comics need creativity", sure. You might forget, that superhero, band-aid and post-it notes are not exactly ELIGIBLE for creativity, in Freedomland. Why are we pushing to take this as the graphic novel equivalent of Palworld, "let's face it"?
Read the one shot a few days ago and I'm mostly interested in The Unnamed Universe since I've read Geiger and Junkyard Joe. That is the only shared universe I'm investing in. The rest didn't attracted my attention. What I love of this universe (The Unnamed one) is that I haven't seen such mix of old and new concepts since the Valiant reboot back in 2012, in my opinion. In spite of the cynical business model of creating comics like a bunch of storyboards for the next Hollywood/Netflix blockbuster, its success must rely on the creators' dedication, as you mentioned. And yes, I agree that their statement reminded me of the very early years of Image. In a nutshell, l'm looking forward for it.
OHH!! It took me a moment but I get it -- the entire thing is owned jointly by all those creators because if *even one* idea rockets them into fortune, they all share. Therefore, throw as many cool ideas out there as they can, hoping at least one scores that big hit. "Pretttyyyy sneaky, sis." ~(vintage Connect Four commercial)
This looks like it could be interesting but the creators need to hunker down and give all they have to make it a success. I just hope it’s not a cash grab and they are serious about telling engaging stories.
The Cinematic Age of Comics - 2006-2024(probably): Starting with Infinite Crisis and the movie Iron Man, this age is all about massive multiversal crossovers, all waiting in line to become the next multimedia franchise to top the “Marvel Cinematic Universe”. The superhero genre, as a result of this blockbuster race, has become inaccessible to new readers as they rely on multiple intellectual properties trying to interact together while at the same time, growing larger and convoluted. Comic books have become nothing more than merchandise of serialized 2-hour theater and streaming features or projects that try to create new products that can potentially become the next media franchise that probably won’t even resemble the source material. In the end in this age it doesn’t matter how good the stories are, how well constructed a fictional world is, what matters is the live action or animated feature that can come out of it.
Inaccesible to new readers and unnapealing to old ones. This is one of the reasons why (save for few exceptions) I don't really bother reading Marvel/DC, be it new or their classic comics.
Im definitely going all in on ghost machine. I've been taking a break from the big 2(with the exception of static shock)for a couple of years now because the prices have gotten insane. Most of the stuff coming from Image,Dark horse,boom,idw has been spectacular.
Thanks for reminding me what the hell Man of Action was. Once you said it I was like "oh yeah". I'm sure I heard about it 20 yrs ago and immediately forgot, then casually spent the last 20+ yrs seeing it in credits, wondering who was involved in this clearly studio based operation
Counter-point: comics as proof of concept for other media isn’t really a thing outside of presentations for gullible investors. Yes, a Hollywood payday is always possible, but nearly all comics will not get it and if comics don’t pay for themselves, they get quickly dropped. Even if a comic book is sold to Netflix, it often doesn’t mean a lot of money for the creators as they have little to no leverage due to a lack of loyal fans. Imo these creators try their own books due to sinking page rates from Marvel and DC. By working together they can increase their „brand recognition“ and by not directly competing within superheroes they may find their own audience, while keeping relationships with Marvel and DC on ok terms. Otherwise I‘m pretty sure none of them will see a Netflix deal on those brands.
The concept sounds great but I think we have enough comics that are trying to be movies or other media, instead of comics that are unashamedly comics. It's like how video games are becoming more cinematic to compete with movies while forgetting that they make more money than films.
I will say, that I think the Ghost Machine books will be great, because Geiger and Junkyard Joe were excellent, it shows that Johns isn't trying to get a Hollywood project, he genuinely wants to create his own stories
I dislike comics that are obviously a pitch for a netflix show. Scout Comics is a frequent offender with each new "series" only lasting maybe 2 issues, each with multiple pages selling the branded merchandise swag. Telltale sign of lame comic. I was slightly underwhelmed by Junkyard Joe series. Geiger has cool aspects, but I'm not interested in a connected universe and continuity. I'm getting old, and having to keep up with that stuff is not really important to me. I picked up this Ghost Machine issue as well, but I haven't read it yet. This channel is great because it discusses modern and timely stuff like this without noise and BS. Keep up the excellent work.
It’s pretty hard to get excited for this. A very nebulous concept that promises nothing but a collection of rotating indie titles. Where the adaptation rights can be sold as a package deal. Like if someone took a bunch of SyFy and Netflix originals that got cancelled after a season, and implied that there could be multiverse crossovers between them. The promise of ‘no reliance on superheroes’ feels more like a last minute attempt to have your cake and eat it. Make a bunch of characters who are superhero enough to appeal to studios now, but just unrelated enough that they can be easily rebranded if superhero content was to see a long-term drop in interest.
Honestly, I'm really excited to see where these stories go. My favorites were in the latter half of the issue: Family Odysseys (which gave me Phil of the Future vibes), Hyde Street, Hornsby & Halo, etc
I've read a little bit of GEIGER and thought it was pretty cool. I may give some of this other stuff a try. ROCKETFELLERS looks fun. Totally agree w you re; Junkyard Joe and G.I. Robot. I noted the similarity when I saw the first JOE ads.
Junkyard Joe is great. I just hope it goes somewhere + carries on when the rest of this fails + falls by the wayside... Also, PLEASE SBP, please cover CONCRETE. I’ve never wanted a video from a certain creator/subject as much ever. I know+ have faith that you could do it justice. With thanks for the great work as always...
@@kerry-j4m Paul Chadwick's Concrete it's a story about a guy transformed into a rock monster (kinda like The Thing from Fantastic Four) it's mostly a speaking piece about Chadwick's thoughts on the environment and society
The whole thing felt like a Millerword-esque promo catalog of IP to be farmed and why is this a MultiVerse?!? The Johns line is alright and has amazing art. (Frank Miller is also doing the same right now with his imprint, minus the MultiVerse.) I also wonder why no female creatures were brought on board as the group managed to be racially diverse and there is a bit of an age range. Johns knows Simone or Nicole Scott from 2,5 decades at DC and they have as my name value as half of the other guys. Johns started working on some sort of personal imprint at DC before going to Image. That is the most curious aspect of it all. Rook looking like Knightmare Batfleck (I am a fan of Snyder) is lastly very funny to me.
I'm not seeing any ideas presented that haven't been made dozens of times over the past 20 odd years. Much like the comics made by the original Image crowd, this is just a reskin of stuff they've made for Marvel & DC. I'm willing to bet most of these guys can do better than this, but if the plan is to get a Hollywood payday then the lack of innovation isn't surprising. It worked for Mark Millar after all.
@@mttylerdurden9 That is true, but there's a difference between doing an old idea with your own imprint (see Alan Moore's work on DC) and just picking an old idea and throwing a different coat of paint on it (like when Marvel tried to make their own Spawn). I'm not familiar with the body of work of the whole "cast" in Ghost Machine, but people like Geoff Johns are from the "Different coat of paint" school, they can't think outside of super heroes.
Well, I'm saying nothing is set in stone, let alone whether it will actually work. I mean the works can be good and still sell poorly. In general, anyone who dares to do something like that is happy to help, even if they fail, it's still good that there are those who try to fly even if they crash, so that the next ones can learn something better from it. In general, I love these videos where you go into some obscure comic universes, I generally love always discovering something new and hearing your opinion about it. I think that could even be an interesting format idea. Also what you said, especially with the concepts where you said they are basically superheroes, reminds me of a discussion I once had with my friends. I mean, what is a superhero anyway? I mean we have science fiction elements to crime fiction to magic, it's very flexible. I mean technically you could say many of these elements are also built into the Dredd-verse (Judge Dredd comic universe). Clearly on the surface it looks like science fiction but when you read titles like devlin waugh you really notice that it's more urban fantasy, or departments K which deals more with the multiverse and other dimensions or insurrection which is actually a space opera . I just think we love mixing things together and breaking down genre boundaries, which I think is a good thing.
The similarities between junkyard Joe and GI robot are undeniable. Did anybody notice in the extra content portion of Hornsby Halo the similarities between the story of Orion and Scott free to the story of Hornsby and Halo?
I mean, Geoff Johns could do pretty much anything on DC for quite a long time... and all he managed to do was to scour Alan Moore's thrash for unused ideas and follow ups. So yeah, I don't feel he was holding up his A game until now...
@@zackeryparkerson of course he did. So did many others (Dragon Ball begins as Journey to the West, then borrows a lot from Superman later on - but it still brings a new approach and adds a lot personality and charm). Doomsday Clock or Three Jokers are just lazy rethreads of unused Moore, nothing new or interesting.
I read a post saying that this lineup of creators would have been an impressive, Image-founders-esque exodus in the 2010s, less so today. I hadn't paid much attention to this because the creators and shared universe, which seem to be what they're leaning on, aren't really selling points for me. I had missed that they were trying to "push past superheroes." Maybe it's just the artists involved, but these characters look pretty superheroic to me.
Overall I like it and am looking forward to a variety of characters and genres, but like you said it feels like some of it is a way to get some attention from a studio for a movie or show.
To be fair, at this point, how else are comic creators going to make a living? Unlike Asia and Europe, UsA culture is not that big on comics/graphic novels. I'm jealous of how graphic novels are so huge in Europe (France, German, etc.). Go to any newsstand in Istanbul, Paris, or Budapest and you'll see entire magazines and broadsheets devoted to political cartoonists, comics and graphic illustrations. We are a backwater in regards to this medium.
@@juniorjames7076yeah it gets tricky trying to get people over here to enjoy the comic itself. And personally I don’t see this as a bad thing, if they gotta sell movie rights to keep the gears turning then that’s cool with me. I’m down for original stories no matter the medium. But still kinda stinks the business and culture are set up this way.
I'm pretty forgiving when it comes to comics and will give a title 3 issues before hanging it up. Reading this thing cover to cover, I don't think I'd give most titles covered more than one.
For as much as I have my gripes on Todd as a creator and Spawn as a story, I have to give it to him for trying to push his own creativity and be reigns free. Now Spawn is anything but a good comic but at the very least it is the creative output of Todd and his collaborators. This just seems like a quick cash in on trying to farm IPs. If anything, they are well past the golden years of doing it, with an even more dwindling pressence of comics in the eyes of the larger public (manga excluded) and ironically more out there. The cynic in me thinks that all these comics out there are trying to get their live action movie, animated series or videogame made to one degree or another
Could be interesting. Maybe I'll mosey over to my lfcs and see if they have it. EDIT: So, I picked it up on the weekend. I read it. I'm not sure yet. Geiger has potential to be interesting. As a Highlander fan, I want Redcoat to be interesting, but I've been let down so many times by the concept (including in every Highlander sequel). The Northerner hints at a similar, if different approach, to the same concept. And that does have me more intrigued, if no less wary. Rook I am absolutely uncertain what to think, yet. Rocketfellers, I think a pass. Hornsby and Halo could have potential, in the Good Omens vein, but I am not certain. Hyde Street I have no idea at all yet. Too little to go on. Junkyard Joe is little more than a Marvel Universe bio page, so ...? I might get the next one, to see where a few stories go, but beyond that, I can't say yet.
Yeah, I'm experiencing a bit of deja vu over a first look similarity to Marc Silvestri's THE DARKNESS and the rest of the Top Cow lineup. Not a bad thing, though the writing there was intended to attract a young audience who wanted to feel grown up, reading scenes of way over-the -top violence (about a 5 on the Edgier Than Batman scale).
Whether it’s for movies and potential franchises definitely would feel a little disingenuous. Personally I would be ok with that as long as these books are actually good. I like Geiger, and I loved junkyard Joe. Red coat and rook seem super interesting. Honestly ghost machine 1 got me very very hyped.
The idea of the copyright being shared among the creators sounds like it is going to create copyright trouble down the line. This is basically what happened to Marvelman. Either you own all the copyright or none of it.
Among the ghost machine titles I’ve only read Geiger, generally speaking it seems to be the only one to have appreciated any success, but I sincerely cannot stress how much of a boring slog of tired ideas dressed in a coat of paint the same way a slum lord paints over old rusting radiator.I think it of course always goes without saying but the most interesting and compelling comics in recent years have come from the small and alternative press.
Geiger is Batman Beyond's Blight meets Walking Dead. Junkyard Joe is clearly GI Robot. Red Coat seems "phoned in." I purchased the 1st issue (having already read Geiger) and I don't see Ghost Machine lasting that long. It's just meh.
Part of me feel that Geiger might be based on Geoff John’s himself. Like ethnicity wise, both are half Middle Eastern half European…but not sure about self insert since I only saw the preview.
In think that defining super herors as "people that have special habilities " is not a great ideia, after all by that lógic you cold say that any carácter with any Power is a super hero, to me the definition of a super hero has more to do with the wish to save people, while i do agree that at least geiger seems to fit that description (and i have not read junkyard Joe yet) i think is a bit too early to say that the other caracters are going to be Superheroes , having a costume is Just standart caracter design, and having a your main carater havea special a habilitiy is Just standart fiction story If the stories are going to be super hero inspired or not only time Will Tell But i think is too early to say that they are just superhero caracters
"The early Image comics were total crap" you don't pull your punches. Perhaps you could do a video about how Image started and those first comics and where those comics are now.
I dunno. It's a lofty goal to say the least. Those guys defined a decade of DC so it has potential. On the other, making it multimedia Is a recipe for disaster. While I do respect Geoff Johns and consider him as a writer who defined DC, his last books at DC left a lot to be desired. Starting with three Jokers and Flashpoint beyond. The former came off as johns was trying to imitate Alan Moore
Why American comic book creators are obsessed with shared universe I don't understand especially when comic book market is not at its height. They should do what European comics and Japanese Mangas do, self contained stories.
They have to be like Image comics to succeed, but really most of the originals of Image where are they now? See the same thing with Ghost Machine only a couple will maintain. I do like Rook Exodus there are a lot of characters that they can focus on. To me the best so far is Dire Wolf.
This is a bizarrely cynical and negative video. I genuinely don’t get it. Are we supposed to be mad at them that they’d be willing to take a lot of money for somebody to adopt their work? Are people not allowed to want to make a living anymore? This sounds like somebody shouting “sellout” at a concert in 1993. Also the books look great. The Unnamed stuff thus far has been awesome. I’m hearing tons of positive buzz for the Rocketfellers, who you mentioned specifically was going to fail (that was weird to.) Yeah dude, not digging the negativity. There’s too many people on TH-cam doing that already.
I was pretty unimpressed with Geiger, Geoff Johns first non DC project in forever and it was just a generic post apocalyptic sci fi comic, I don't think the man has any juice besides working on pre-existing properties.
Some of these look interesting; others much more derivative. But ah, well. I can never commit plagiarism without feeling a little smugly self-satisfied. ( ....I stole that from Mark Twain.)
Saying all of these characters are basically superheroes because of the use of special powers is kind of reductive. Mangas are technically comicbooks and a lot of them rely on characters having special powers sooo are shonen manga Superhero comics? I mean it may be argued, after all they seem to appeal to quite the same demographics but it would deserve a real discussion. Plus it feels kinda dismissive of the whole premise especially with you probably being like the only guy who would even care to talk about that kind of comicbook initiative on the platform.
Ghost Machine (and Giant Generator, which is Remender’s vanity imprint) are two recent comics things that have made me go “full hater.” I’m not gonna deny that Johns and Tomasi have written good stuff in the past, that’s insane and wrong, but those two in particular are the architects of some of DC’s biggest fuck ups for the past 10+ years. Did you like that story arc of Tomasi/Gleason Superman where they go on a road trip and Clark tells his son that the real heroes are the American military apparatus? Because that’s all that Family Odysseys is and that’s what Francis Manapul’s talent is being wasted on. Same thing with Reis and Hyde Street. Johns is so far past his heyday as a writer that it makes me question whether he was any good in the first place. And I’m supposed to be excited about him teaming up with Ivan Reis (who I love) for the 6th time? No thanks, I’ll wait for Reis contract with Ghost Machine to wrap so he can draw for Marvel comic with Hickman or something. I hope Ghost Machine fails.
Ivan Reis is a co partner at ghost machine. So he's going to be over there for a while. Also, hoping that a whole imprint fails because you didn't like what the writers did with your favorite characters? This is going beyond full hater. Also what makes remenders giant generator a "vanity imprint"? The fact that he wants to be in charge of his own work is vanity now?
Another superhero universe? C´mon! This is why the comparison between manga and American comics doesn´t make sense. On the one hand, you have an industry that offers sci-fi, adventure, romance, thrillers, superheroes, slice of life, dramas, and comedies. The other offers one guy beating up another, with the only thing changing between books is how conflicted about the beating both are.
You're very misinformed, Image, dynamite,boom,Titan,Dark Horse etc. Do exactly what you listed. Heck even DC did Last God and Nice House which have nothing to do with the DCU same Vertigo and Helix a few years back. But I guess you never heard of that.
Except it's not another superhero universe. You could argue that junkyard Joe and Geiger might be superhero, but Rook Exodus is an Epic post apocalyptic series, the rocketfellers, and Hornsby and halo are family focused books, and Hyde Street is completely horror.
@@stuartsupersad23 which is even worse because those comics will get bury so the industry can focus its marketing machine on the next Crisis or Multiverse mambo. Batman farts and every news outlet goes bananas for the exclusive, meanwhile hard-working comics get relegated to the "Catch them before they get cancelled" bin.
@@mttylerdurden9 But do they get the same limelight as anything by Marvel or DC? When someone says "American comic book industry", they are talking about superheroes... as sad as it is.
Meltzer and Geohns shouldn't be allowed to produce comic books why? they hate comics books and the character therein why keep coming back to something you hate? killers coming back to the scene of the crime to play with the bones of your victims? OH, i fergot......the comic book industry DIED IN 1996, you poseurs
melty and geohns use characters deaths in a gratuitous fashion ..........remember what geihns did with the wonder twins and wonder dog? red arrow? ww killing blue beetle? that's all THEM @@mttylerdurden9
Thanks for reminding me what the hell Man of Action was. Once you said it I was like "oh yeah". I'm sure I heard about it 20 yrs ago and immediately forgot, then casually spent the last 20+ yrs seeing it in credits, wondering who was involved in this clearly studio based operation
The Geiger universe seems to be a mishmash of DC characters and concepts that John’s had ideas for but never worked on. There are parallels to G.I. Robot, Weird War Tales, Atomic Knights, etc. He even used the old checker board pattern on the top of his books like DC in the silver age
It is kinda ballsy to start a new comic company considering that most seem to be struggling to different degrees, and many great books have been canceled due to poor sales. Still, I wish them luck.
In the mid 2000s I lived and taught English to university students in Istanbul, Budapest and Prague. I was amazed at how comics/graphic novels and magazines/newspapers devoted to only comics/cartoonists is so integrated into European culture and all over newsstands. In Turkey, nobody can criticize the president EXCEPT political cartoonists. We had the "underground comics" movement here in the late '60s/'70s but its still going strong in Europe (and Asia obviously w/ Manga), especially France. I wish we had the same culture of respect for comics here in the US.
If they’re publishing it through Image then it’s business as usual
How are they struggling, specifically?
@@kalenberreman8252 A lot of comic stores have been struggling to make end's meet and have been closing up. This is why a lot of comic store focus more on board games than actual comics.
It's not really a new comic company. They're using Image as a publisher. Ultimately the only thing they are risking is their own time and given how successful they are, there's not much of a gamble.
If this tanks it's not like Gary Frank is going to be ruined. He'll just go back to drawing for Marvel or DC.
Seems like any commercial creative venture with shared profit is likely to end up in a conflict where someone gets mad because he thinks other people who "aren't bringing their A game" are making money of his success.
In 2022, Geoff Johns came to my town and talked about a lot of things he was about to write in the following times. He mentioned and showed a preview of Junkyard Joe, and talked a little bit about his other Image stuff. He also mentioned the current "The Golden Age" stuff he is writting for DC, including the Lost Children and Jay Garrick's daughter. Those were some big reveals but I feel they weren't covered by press because it happened in a city that isn't even the most popular of Argentina.
In what city did it happen?
@@ivanagustinortiz5237 It's called Rosario, in the province of Santa Fe
@@juliiju0484 Fua, Geoff Johns estuvo en santa fe, que loco.
@@juliiju0484 pregunté en inglés por si no eras argentino, increíble que estuvo Geoff Johns en Argentina y yo ni enterado jajajaja
I want to believe in this and the comics, not for the sake of movie deals or tv show deals, i care about the comic books and just want the best for the industry
It's very rare to see you do a whole video on a hate take, and yet it is still well edited as well as well-researched. That's a level of dedication to the craft.
... He's so composed it doesn't even sound like a hate take but... Yeah... I see it now.
"Comics need creativity", sure. You might forget, that superhero, band-aid and post-it notes are not exactly ELIGIBLE for creativity, in Freedomland.
Why are we pushing to take this as the graphic novel equivalent of Palworld, "let's face it"?
@@Bubblegobidk... after a while you can detect the barely contained rage or disgust in his voice even when he sounds calm and monotone 9:35 9:35
@@o-wolf A lot of his videos are like this. A certain level of snobbery.
It reminds me of America's Best Comics...i'm excited for Red Coat but only because of Bryan Hitch's art.
Johns seems to be using The Atomic Knights in Geiger as well. "The Nuclear Knights". Subtle.
Read the one shot a few days ago and I'm mostly interested in The Unnamed Universe since I've read Geiger and Junkyard Joe. That is the only shared universe I'm investing in. The rest didn't attracted my attention.
What I love of this universe (The Unnamed one) is that I haven't seen such mix of old and new concepts since the Valiant reboot back in 2012, in my opinion. In spite of the cynical business model of creating comics like a bunch of storyboards for the next Hollywood/Netflix blockbuster, its success must rely on the creators' dedication, as you mentioned.
And yes, I agree that their statement reminded me of the very early years of Image.
In a nutshell, l'm looking forward for it.
I've seen this rodeo a few times. The one consistent element is the cover price.
OHH!! It took me a moment but I get it -- the entire thing is owned jointly by all those creators because if *even one* idea rockets them into fortune, they all share. Therefore, throw as many cool ideas out there as they can, hoping at least one scores that big hit. "Pretttyyyy sneaky, sis." ~(vintage Connect Four commercial)
More likely, it will result in a legal battles over copyright like it did with "Marvelman".
I agree, they shouls give more liberty to creative writers to join them if they truly want to compete against Marvel and DC.
They’ve already stated plainly that they’re open to bringing creators aboard.
They should stick to the model of making comics for comics.
This looks like it could be interesting but the creators need to hunker down and give all they have to make it a success. I just hope it’s not a cash grab and they are serious about telling engaging stories.
Moment I hear "co-own" I can smell trouble coming.
The Cinematic Age of Comics - 2006-2024(probably):
Starting with Infinite Crisis and the movie Iron Man, this age is all about massive multiversal crossovers, all waiting in line to become the next multimedia franchise to top the “Marvel Cinematic Universe”. The superhero genre, as a result of this blockbuster race, has become inaccessible to new readers as they rely on multiple intellectual properties trying to interact together while at the same time, growing larger and convoluted. Comic books have become nothing more than merchandise of serialized 2-hour theater and streaming features or projects that try to create new products that can potentially become the next media franchise that probably won’t even resemble the source material. In the end in this age it doesn’t matter how good the stories are, how well constructed a fictional world is, what matters is the live action or animated feature that can come out of it.
Inaccesible to new readers and unnapealing to old ones. This is one of the reasons why (save for few exceptions) I don't really bother reading Marvel/DC, be it new or their classic comics.
I put rook exodus on my pull list only one that I was interested in but I hope they all do good
Im definitely going all in on ghost machine. I've been taking a break from the big 2(with the exception of static shock)for a couple of years now because the prices have gotten insane. Most of the stuff coming from Image,Dark horse,boom,idw has been spectacular.
Honestly, I want them to succeed. And besides, I really like Geiger and I would love to see more.
Thanks for reminding me what the hell Man of Action was. Once you said it I was like "oh yeah". I'm sure I heard about it 20 yrs ago and immediately forgot, then casually spent the last 20+ yrs seeing it in credits, wondering who was involved in this clearly studio based operation
Looks interesting
Counter-point: comics as proof of concept for other media isn’t really a thing outside of presentations for gullible investors.
Yes, a Hollywood payday is always possible, but nearly all comics will not get it and if comics don’t pay for themselves, they get quickly dropped. Even if a comic book is sold to Netflix, it often doesn’t mean a lot of money for the creators as they have little to no leverage due to a lack of loyal fans.
Imo these creators try their own books due to sinking page rates from Marvel and DC. By working together they can increase their „brand recognition“ and by not directly competing within superheroes they may find their own audience, while keeping relationships with Marvel and DC on ok terms.
Otherwise I‘m pretty sure none of them will see a Netflix deal on those brands.
The concept sounds great but I think we have enough comics that are trying to be movies or other media, instead of comics that are unashamedly comics. It's like how video games are becoming more cinematic to compete with movies while forgetting that they make more money than films.
Honestly, I'm surprised they're having been more connected universes that aren't superheroes in comics
I'm loving the Ghost Machine Universe. Better then what the big 2 have been doing for the last 5 years.
I will say, that I think the Ghost Machine books will be great, because Geiger and Junkyard Joe were excellent, it shows that Johns isn't trying to get a Hollywood project, he genuinely wants to create his own stories
I'm more excited by the books and creators of DSTLRY , another new company. ..
I dislike comics that are obviously a pitch for a netflix show. Scout Comics is a frequent offender with each new "series" only lasting maybe 2 issues, each with multiple pages selling the branded merchandise swag. Telltale sign of lame comic.
I was slightly underwhelmed by Junkyard Joe series. Geiger has cool aspects, but I'm not interested in a connected universe and continuity. I'm getting old, and having to keep up with that stuff is not really important to me. I picked up this Ghost Machine issue as well, but I haven't read it yet.
This channel is great because it discusses modern and timely stuff like this without noise and BS. Keep up the excellent work.
I love the original image comics.
“World beyond superhero’s”. YES!
It’s pretty hard to get excited for this. A very nebulous concept that promises nothing but a collection of rotating indie titles. Where the adaptation rights can be sold as a package deal.
Like if someone took a bunch of SyFy and Netflix originals that got cancelled after a season, and implied that there could be multiverse crossovers between them.
The promise of ‘no reliance on superheroes’ feels more like a last minute attempt to have your cake and eat it. Make a bunch of characters who are superhero enough to appeal to studios now, but just unrelated enough that they can be easily rebranded if superhero content was to see a long-term drop in interest.
we need more non-superhero comic universes.
From what the big 2 are offering right now, I'm gonna give them a chance.
Honestly, I'm really excited to see where these stories go. My favorites were in the latter half of the issue: Family Odysseys (which gave me Phil of the Future vibes), Hyde Street, Hornsby & Halo, etc
I've read a little bit of GEIGER and thought it was pretty cool. I may give some of this other stuff a try. ROCKETFELLERS looks fun.
Totally agree w you re; Junkyard Joe and G.I. Robot. I noted the similarity when I saw the first JOE ads.
Nothing but the best and what a pedigree this pool has, pulling for them.
If this was a free preview issue I think I would have liked it a little more
Junkyard Joe is great.
I just hope it goes somewhere + carries on when the rest of this fails + falls by the wayside...
Also, PLEASE SBP, please cover CONCRETE.
I’ve never wanted a video from a certain creator/subject as much ever.
I know+ have faith that you could do it justice.
With thanks for the great work as always...
What's-CONCRETE ??? You have piqued my interest. Wasn't there a character named Concrete in the 80s or 90s ???
@@kerry-j4m Paul Chadwick's Concrete it's a story about a guy transformed into a rock monster (kinda like The Thing from Fantastic Four) it's mostly a speaking piece about Chadwick's thoughts on the environment and society
The whole thing felt like a Millerword-esque promo catalog of IP to be farmed and why is this a MultiVerse?!? The Johns line is alright and has amazing art. (Frank Miller is also doing the same right now with his imprint, minus the MultiVerse.)
I also wonder why no female creatures were brought on board as the group managed to be racially diverse and there is a bit of an age range. Johns knows Simone or Nicole Scott from 2,5 decades at DC and they have as my name value as half of the other guys. Johns started working on some sort of personal imprint at DC before going to Image. That is the most curious aspect of it all. Rook looking like Knightmare Batfleck (I am a fan of Snyder) is lastly very funny to me.
I'm not seeing any ideas presented that haven't been made dozens of times over the past 20 odd years. Much like the comics made by the original Image crowd, this is just a reskin of stuff they've made for Marvel & DC.
I'm willing to bet most of these guys can do better than this, but if the plan is to get a Hollywood payday then the lack of innovation isn't surprising. It worked for Mark Millar after all.
Every idea has been done before. That doesn't mean it can't be great.
@@mttylerdurden9 That is true, but there's a difference between doing an old idea with your own imprint (see Alan Moore's work on DC) and just picking an old idea and throwing a different coat of paint on it (like when Marvel tried to make their own Spawn).
I'm not familiar with the body of work of the whole "cast" in Ghost Machine, but people like Geoff Johns are from the "Different coat of paint" school, they can't think outside of super heroes.
Well, I'm saying nothing is set in stone, let alone whether it will actually work. I mean the works can be good and still sell poorly.
In general, anyone who dares to do something like that is happy to help, even if they fail, it's still good that there are those who try to fly even if they crash, so that the next ones can learn something better from it.
In general, I love these videos where you go into some obscure comic universes, I generally love always discovering something new and hearing your opinion about it. I think that could even be an interesting format idea.
Also what you said, especially with the concepts where you said they are basically superheroes, reminds me of a discussion I once had with my friends. I mean, what is a superhero anyway? I mean we have science fiction elements to crime fiction to magic, it's very flexible.
I mean technically you could say many of these elements are also built into the Dredd-verse (Judge Dredd comic universe). Clearly on the surface it looks like science fiction but when you read titles like devlin waugh you really notice that it's more urban fantasy, or departments K which deals more with the multiverse and other dimensions or insurrection which is actually a space opera .
I just think we love mixing things together and breaking down genre boundaries, which I think is a good thing.
The similarities between junkyard Joe and GI robot are undeniable. Did anybody notice in the extra content portion of Hornsby Halo the similarities between the story of Orion and Scott free to the story of Hornsby and Halo?
I mean, Geoff Johns could do pretty much anything on DC for quite a long time... and all he managed to do was to scour Alan Moore's thrash for unused ideas and follow ups.
So yeah, I don't feel he was holding up his A game until now...
Let’s not pretend Alan Moore didn’t also dig through trash for old ideas to freshen them up. It just seems to be what big two writers do.
@@zackeryparkerson
'Good writers borrow.
Great writers steal."
T S Elliot
@@zackeryparkerson of course he did. So did many others (Dragon Ball begins as Journey to the West, then borrows a lot from Superman later on - but it still brings a new approach and adds a lot personality and charm). Doomsday Clock or Three Jokers are just lazy rethreads of unused Moore, nothing new or interesting.
I read a post saying that this lineup of creators would have been an impressive, Image-founders-esque exodus in the 2010s, less so today.
I hadn't paid much attention to this because the creators and shared universe, which seem to be what they're leaning on, aren't really selling points for me. I had missed that they were trying to "push past superheroes." Maybe it's just the artists involved, but these characters look pretty superheroic to me.
Overall I like it and am looking forward to a variety of characters and genres, but like you said it feels like some of it is a way to get some attention from a studio for a movie or show.
Like what a certain Scottish writer, former friend of Grant Morrison, did.
To be fair, at this point, how else are comic creators going to make a living? Unlike Asia and Europe, UsA culture is not that big on comics/graphic novels. I'm jealous of how graphic novels are so huge in Europe (France, German, etc.). Go to any newsstand in Istanbul, Paris, or Budapest and you'll see entire magazines and broadsheets devoted to political cartoonists, comics and graphic illustrations. We are a backwater in regards to this medium.
@@juniorjames7076yeah it gets tricky trying to get people over here to enjoy the comic itself. And personally I don’t see this as a bad thing, if they gotta sell movie rights to keep the gears turning then that’s cool with me. I’m down for original stories no matter the medium. But still kinda stinks the business and culture are set up this way.
And what's wrong with that ??? These guys have bills to pay also,I'm pretty sure they could use a nice hefty pay day.
If they trulynwant variety they should look at the european and japanese industry, as both have succeded at that.
Thanks!
I'm pretty forgiving when it comes to comics and will give a title 3 issues before hanging it up. Reading this thing cover to cover, I don't think I'd give most titles covered more than one.
For as much as I have my gripes on Todd as a creator and Spawn as a story, I have to give it to him for trying to push his own creativity and be reigns free. Now Spawn is anything but a good comic but at the very least it is the creative output of Todd and his collaborators. This just seems like a quick cash in on trying to farm IPs. If anything, they are well past the golden years of doing it, with an even more dwindling pressence of comics in the eyes of the larger public (manga excluded) and ironically more out there.
The cynic in me thinks that all these comics out there are trying to get their live action movie, animated series or videogame made to one degree or another
Could be interesting. Maybe I'll mosey over to my lfcs and see if they have it.
EDIT:
So, I picked it up on the weekend. I read it. I'm not sure yet.
Geiger has potential to be interesting. As a Highlander fan, I want Redcoat to be interesting, but I've been let down so many times by the concept (including in every Highlander sequel). The Northerner hints at a similar, if different approach, to the same concept. And that does have me more intrigued, if no less wary. Rook I am absolutely uncertain what to think, yet. Rocketfellers, I think a pass. Hornsby and Halo could have potential, in the Good Omens vein, but I am not certain. Hyde Street I have no idea at all yet. Too little to go on. Junkyard Joe is little more than a Marvel Universe bio page, so ...?
I might get the next one, to see where a few stories go, but beyond that, I can't say yet.
Really good.
Until Next Time .. 👋🏿
What are your thoughts on the Massive-Verse?
Yeah, I'm experiencing a bit of deja vu over a first look similarity to Marc Silvestri's THE DARKNESS and the rest of the Top Cow lineup. Not a bad thing, though the writing there was intended to attract a young audience who wanted to feel grown up, reading scenes of way over-the -top violence (about a 5 on the Edgier Than Batman scale).
Though I am a fan of Geiger and the potential of this new universe I definitely like this objective take on it
I’d be interested in an update video of your thoughts Mr AI voice
Whether it’s for movies and potential franchises definitely would feel a little disingenuous. Personally I would be ok with that as long as these books are actually good. I like Geiger, and I loved junkyard Joe. Red coat and rook seem super interesting. Honestly ghost machine 1 got me very very hyped.
I really enjoyed the first Junkyard Joe series and would love to know your thoughts if you have read it
There is heavyweight talent. And nothing that really sounds that exciting to me character or story-wise
Figured I'd stick with Black Hammer universe
Black Hammer kicks @$$.
The idea of the copyright being shared among the creators sounds like it is going to create copyright trouble down the line. This is basically what happened to Marvelman. Either you own all the copyright or none of it.
Among the ghost machine titles I’ve only read Geiger, generally speaking it seems to be the only one to have appreciated any success, but I sincerely cannot stress how much of a boring slog of tired ideas dressed in a coat of paint the same way a slum lord paints over old rusting radiator.I think it of course always goes without saying but the most interesting and compelling comics in recent years have come from the small and alternative press.
Geiger is Batman Beyond's Blight meets Walking Dead. Junkyard Joe is clearly GI Robot. Red Coat seems "phoned in." I purchased the 1st issue (having already read Geiger) and I don't see Ghost Machine lasting that long. It's just meh.
Part of me feel that Geiger might be based on Geoff John’s himself.
Like ethnicity wise, both are half Middle Eastern half European…but not sure about self insert since I only saw the preview.
In think that defining super herors as "people that have special habilities " is not a great ideia, after all by that lógic you cold say that any carácter with any Power is a super hero, to me the definition of a super hero has more to do with the wish to save people, while i do agree that at least geiger seems to fit that description (and i have not read junkyard Joe yet) i think is a bit too early to say that the other caracters are going to be Superheroes , having a costume is Just standart caracter design, and having a your main carater havea special a habilitiy is Just standart fiction story
If the stories are going to be super hero inspired or not only time Will Tell But i think is too early to say that they are just superhero caracters
I gotta admit I cannot wait to care to see this in action as forthcoming Trainwreck.
one of Thinking Critically's most recent videos is where I 1st heard about the Ghost Machine omniverse
"The early Image comics were total crap" you don't pull your punches. Perhaps you could do a video about how Image started and those first comics and where those comics are now.
I've already done TWO videos about the very early beginnings of Image and how the company evolved over time.
@@StrangeBrainParts cheers I've watched them and some more.
I dunno. It's a lofty goal to say the least. Those guys defined a decade of DC so it has potential. On the other, making it multimedia Is a recipe for disaster. While I do respect Geoff Johns and consider him as a writer who defined DC, his last books at DC left a lot to be desired. Starting with three Jokers and Flashpoint beyond. The former came off as johns was trying to imitate Alan Moore
These comics don’t look great but I’ll give them a chance.
Isn't this just CrossGen version 2?
Definetly no...
Why American comic book creators are obsessed with shared universe I don't understand especially when comic book market is not at its height. They should do what European comics and Japanese Mangas do, self contained stories.
They do. All the time.
Look at the comic book publishers that aren't marvel and DC
They have to be like Image comics to succeed, but really most of the originals of Image where are they now? See the same thing with Ghost Machine only a couple will maintain. I do like Rook Exodus there are a lot of characters that they can focus on. To me the best so far is Dire Wolf.
Most of them are still at image. Jim Lee and Rob liefeld left, but Todd, Jim V, Marc, and Eric are still there.
This is a bizarrely cynical and negative video. I genuinely don’t get it.
Are we supposed to be mad at them that they’d be willing to take a lot of money for somebody to adopt their work? Are people not allowed to want to make a living anymore?
This sounds like somebody shouting “sellout” at a concert in 1993.
Also the books look great. The Unnamed stuff thus far has been awesome. I’m hearing tons of positive buzz for the Rocketfellers, who you mentioned specifically was going to fail (that was weird to.)
Yeah dude, not digging the negativity. There’s too many people on TH-cam doing that already.
I was pretty unimpressed with Geiger, Geoff Johns first non DC project in forever and it was just a generic post apocalyptic sci fi comic, I don't think the man has any juice besides working on pre-existing properties.
The only decent ip they created is ben 10
Some of these look interesting; others much more derivative. But ah, well.
I can never commit plagiarism without feeling a little smugly self-satisfied.
( ....I stole that from Mark Twain.)
Saying all of these characters are basically superheroes because of the use of special powers is kind of reductive. Mangas are technically comicbooks and a lot of them rely on characters having special powers sooo are shonen manga Superhero comics? I mean it may be argued, after all they seem to appeal to quite the same demographics but it would deserve a real discussion.
Plus it feels kinda dismissive of the whole premise especially with you probably being like the only guy who would even care to talk about that kind of comicbook initiative on the platform.
no wonder manga is outselling comics. these are boring af
Manga outselling comics had nothing to do with it's quality.
yeah, sure.... Marvel movies say different @@mttylerdurden9
Ghost Machine (and Giant Generator, which is Remender’s vanity imprint) are two recent comics things that have made me go “full hater.”
I’m not gonna deny that Johns and Tomasi have written good stuff in the past, that’s insane and wrong, but those two in particular are the architects of some of DC’s biggest fuck ups for the past 10+ years.
Did you like that story arc of Tomasi/Gleason Superman where they go on a road trip and Clark tells his son that the real heroes are the American military apparatus? Because that’s all that Family Odysseys is and that’s what Francis Manapul’s talent is being wasted on.
Same thing with Reis and Hyde Street. Johns is so far past his heyday as a writer that it makes me question whether he was any good in the first place. And I’m supposed to be excited about him teaming up with Ivan Reis (who I love) for the 6th time? No thanks, I’ll wait for Reis contract with Ghost Machine to wrap so he can draw for Marvel comic with Hickman or something.
I hope Ghost Machine fails.
Ivan Reis is a co partner at ghost machine. So he's going to be over there for a while.
Also, hoping that a whole imprint fails because you didn't like what the writers did with your favorite characters? This is going beyond full hater.
Also what makes remenders giant generator a "vanity imprint"? The fact that he wants to be in charge of his own work is vanity now?
Old canuck man yells at not yet published comics.
Also Redcoat is another clone of Eternal Warrior from Valiant. Like BRZRKR.
Damn I never knew that all this time Geoff Johns had a chad face shape.
Got 15 seconds in, saw Geoff Johns, nope'd out. Dude needs to quit 20 years ago.
This is so blatantly an attempt to do a new Millarworld
What? How?
Another superhero universe? C´mon! This is why the comparison between manga and American comics doesn´t make sense. On the one hand, you have an industry that offers sci-fi, adventure, romance, thrillers, superheroes, slice of life, dramas, and comedies. The other offers one guy beating up another, with the only thing changing between books is how conflicted about the beating both are.
You're very misinformed,
Image, dynamite,boom,Titan,Dark Horse etc. Do exactly what you listed. Heck even DC did Last God and Nice House which have nothing to do with the DCU same Vertigo and Helix a few years back.
But I guess you never heard of that.
Except it's not another superhero universe. You could argue that junkyard Joe and Geiger might be superhero, but Rook Exodus is an Epic post apocalyptic series, the rocketfellers, and Hornsby and halo are family focused books, and Hyde Street is completely horror.
Not to mention there are plenty of comics outside of superheroes of all genres.
@@stuartsupersad23 which is even worse because those comics will get bury so the industry can focus its marketing machine on the next Crisis or Multiverse mambo. Batman farts and every news outlet goes bananas for the exclusive, meanwhile hard-working comics get relegated to the "Catch them before they get cancelled" bin.
@@mttylerdurden9 But do they get the same limelight as anything by Marvel or DC? When someone says "American comic book industry", they are talking about superheroes... as sad as it is.
Meltzer and Geohns shouldn't be allowed to produce comic books
why? they hate comics books and the character therein
why keep coming back to something you hate?
killers coming back to the scene of the crime to play with the bones of your victims?
OH, i fergot......the comic book industry DIED IN 1996, you poseurs
How does any of that make any sense?
melty and geohns use characters deaths in a gratuitous fashion ..........remember what geihns did with the wonder twins and wonder dog? red arrow? ww killing blue beetle? that's all THEM @@mttylerdurden9
I remember when you just started. You sounded smart, now you just sound jaded (like the comic world was Harvard and you were a professor in it). Sad.
Forst
Covfefe
Abraxas
Thanks for reminding me what the hell Man of Action was. Once you said it I was like "oh yeah". I'm sure I heard about it 20 yrs ago and immediately forgot, then casually spent the last 20+ yrs seeing it in credits, wondering who was involved in this clearly studio based operation