The Future of Railways (circa 1961)
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retro-futurism is my vibe
💯
Same..
Art deco needs to make a 21st century comeback
Same. Past visions of an imagined future are fascinating.
Where's my bloody jet pack, to fly above the city on the Moon? That's what I want to know. We were promised!
It's even interesting looking back on predictions of the future from back in the 1990s.
My late Dad (1931-2019) stopped working for our 🇳🇱Dutch Royal Railway, when steam was fazed out: by Diesel. And before total electrification, of our nat. network really came in. As a former Stoker & Steam Engine Driver he said it made him quickly bored and lazy (even getting "fat" - his own words😅). So he drove the last cargo Steam Engine to our National Railway Museum in Utrecht. And went back to school to become a teacher in the mid/late 60s.
You still have a few non-electric lines in the Netherlands though.
You are very correct👍🏻, dear@@hairyairey, we still have some of those in 🇳🇱.
Seeing the picture of the Blue Pullman on the cover of that bookazine brought back a specific memory for me.
My late Dad used to work for BR & at some point in the 60's arranged a family trip from Newport, S Wales to London on the said Blue Pullman.
Now I was a trainspotter back then, so was excited at the prospect of passing through Swindon, where I thought I might spot quite a few locos.
What I hadn't reckoned on was the speed at which we actually passed through Swindon (possibly 90mph) - so absolutely zero locos spotted !! 😢😢
Yes, I had some disappointing pass-throughs at Swindon in the 1970s. One blink and it was gone!
Just imagine being on a BR Class 43 'HST' set running 'flat out' through Swindon and you'd see even less!
The Blue Pullmans could actually do 90?! My understanding was they were horribly underpowered.
@@CountScarlioni That is officially what's listed as their top speed if you Google it. In my original comment, that was just how fast they seemed to me as a teenager !
@@stephenpegum9776 Don't worry, I was just being flippant! I'm sure they could hit their top speed with a decent run up. I'm just aware they had a reputation for sluggish performance which was somewhat embarrassing for a prestige service and contributed to their downfall.
Mostly though, I'm just jealous you actually got to travel on it!
Of course that really scenic line from Scarborough to Whitby was torn up just a few years after this book was published!
I noted that as well, plus the line north of Whitby through Sandsend.
Ravenscar: “They'll be back, just you wait and see!”.
Yeah, that pic of the DMU with "Scarborough" in the destination sign irked the memory.
1:26 - 1:48 Brilliant composition. If Constable were around and he knew about steam trains you'd find him sitting there painting.
I've seen that sense of giddy optimism in magazines from the 1920s as well. Probably for the same reason: they were still getting over something really bad that had just happened. They didn't dare look back. The only way was forward.
The flipside was that there were major technological advances in both world wars which helped reinforce the idea that science and engineering were always advancing, even if human nature wasn't. And there were major successes across all industries, but also major failures as well. And some of the successes, like plastics, have now demonstrated the Law of Unintended Consequences.
@@iankemp1131 Good point. We often think of WW2 as a tech war and WW1 as a war of attrition, but WW1 had its share of tech too.
I would disagree, I think the giddy optimism was apparent throughout the industrial revolution well before the first world war, I think it is only with de-industrialisation that we got the pessimism of today
Oh how I loved those multiple units you can see through the front of as a little girl. The only little girl in my class who wanted to be a train driver when I grew up! Did anyone else shout out the class numbers of the locomotives as they popped up? What a nerd! 😊
Please miss, please miss! Me miss! It was me you heard shouting!
Mind I cheated because I had a copy of the publication as a lad.
(and reet greedly it were too)
@@fenlinescouser4105 Hehe. No cheating here, just indoctrination by me dad from an early age. Wouldn't surprise me if he's got a copy too.
You know what, you've just made me think. I was an avid trainspotter then amongst many others locally, but I cannot remember one single female trainspotter! Wonder why that should be, there is no reason I can think of!
@@2760ade No reason that you are willing to admit to !
They were Wonder locomotives. As in "I wonder if they will work today"
You could do a film about Ian Allan Publishing. Allan started in it 1942 and it survives!
What I love, as a 1963er, is the optimism in these sort of books, I remember similar volumes for aircraft, ships and new towns and atomic energy. Times change, I guess. Loved the video.
I agree. Today, pessimism is par for the course - it is like the powers that be prefer that we are in a permanent state of fear.
@@kimvibk9242 That pessimism is a result of very many failed government projects, and (perhaps) unreasonable expectations.
Would love to see your take on the controversial and complicated modernisation plan, particularly (but not necessarily exclusively!) with regards to transportation in London.
Did Railways in London really "get off" without a proper COST analysis.
This video had lots of my favourite trains, (Intercity 125, Intercity 225, Deltic and Class 37) so I am very happy!
I did wonder why we've had so many weird and wonderful trains in the UK, this helped explain it a bit. 😊
I had all that footage of diesels, and I never use it. Seemed like a waste, really.
@@JagoHazzard It is. I love diesel trains! They're just so noisy! 😁 I'm sure you could come up with a reason to use some of that footage. 😊 (I love steam and electric trains too, but I think Class 37 is my favourite. They just seem so humble, like the Hufflepuff of trains, that and Class 365.) Weird tangent there!
Just to be pedantic, the last stem hauled passenger service by British Rail, was in 1989 when the Vale of Rheidol railway was privatised.
I did once travel on the Cambrian from Machynlleth to Barmouth in a DMU where you could see forwards through the driver's cab. Certainly made for an interesting journey.
I did that Cambrian run a few times. On of the drivers used to play "On Ilkley Moor Ba'Tat" on the hooter at every crossing.
Thanks Jago! Its always interesting to see "the future" as it was imagined back in the 1960s..I wonder what the press will think of today's HS2 and the Elizabeth line in 2080?
"That Purple Line is so overcrowded they should have made the tunnels big enough for double decker cars like on the Paris RER!"
@@comicus01 Totally agree...A bit of futureproofing goes a long way...
@@brettpalfrey4665 They may have, I actually don't know. I guess you would have to look upthe tunnel diamters of each line.
It'd be neat to see them embark on a long term project to make the deep level tube tunnels bigger so they could use the same size trains as on the sub surface lines.
I loved the Deltics...thundering past...and the peeked cap of the Westerns...and their evocative naming scheme....thanks Jago😊
In the early 70s I commuted between Newcastle (I was at the Uni) and Sunderland on the 2-car Class 101 DMUs. On the 60mph run between (I think) Boldon Colliery and Low Fell they used to jump around a fair bit! The view out of the front was great, though. I learned to read the approach lights at Newcastle Central to know which platform we'd arrive at.
What a great find! I've got a few old prediction type books, including a 1965 How And why Book of the future. Moonbases before 1980, I ask you! Love them.
That was so interesting! I used to go to school on the 306s, so good to see 017 right at the end, although I'd rather it still looked like it did when it was newly restored, or even when it was still in use back in 1974.
The good news is they were right - electrification (by wires, rails or battery/fuel cell) was the way forward. The bad news is that, 60yrs later, it still is...
I am not sure that you can assert that. It's all about trade offs and incentives. That is the economics. Part of the problem was, is, the nationalisation of rail. That inhibits innovation in a competitive environment. The 'central planning' is all done by relatively ignorant bureaucrats. As a thought experiment, what would have transpired were the railway not nationalised. It is likely that each company - using its own capital at its own risk - would have been careful in what it specified, designed and ordered. There would also likely have been co-operation between companies. So, excluding the implied environmental viewpoint in your comment, we cannot know what would be the optimum power source. It is most likely that diverse power sources would continue.
@@stevenfarrall3942no, he's right. India has a 40,000 mile rail network and is being electrified at a rate of around 600 miles per year. Our rail network is achieving nothing like that rate that even taking into account our network is smaller.
@@stevenfarrall3942 The current economics mean that none of the franchise holders is prepared to invest any money in improving our trains.
@@stevenfarrall3942 We do know some what the Big Four's ideas for modern traction were, because they all made some sort of plan in the 1940s. Some more explicit than others.
1) LMS - Generally committed to widespread modernisation of its steam fleet with new standard designs by Ivatt, incorporating American and French design traits to minimise labour needed for maintenance and servicing. Diesel-electric prototypes were in hand just before nationalisation (the 1600hp English Electric twins - individually suitable for mixed traffic and when working in multiple deemed equivalent to a Pacific - and the 800hp light mixed traffic 'road switcher') and the LMS was rolling out the widespread use of English Electric 350hp shunters. There was also the pre-war streamlined articulated intercity diesel railcar and, post-war, the preliminary work on what became the BR 'Derby Lightweight' DMU.
2) LNER - Better described as an 'ambition' due to the North Eastern's perennially cash-strapped nature, but the vision was to extend the Woodhead 1500V electrification system to Doncaster (for freight) and Retford (for passengers). Electrification with EMUs of the suburban routes between Kings Cross and Hitchin would follow, and then the gap between Retford and Hitchin would be wired, allowing Manchester-Sheffield-KX electric services (this is what the EM2 electric locos were intended for - hence their 90mph top speed when the Woodhead line had limits no higher than 60mph). There was also scope to electrify between Wath and Immingham. For the ECML, the LNER went as far as to issue a specification and call for 'expressions of interest' from manufacturers for a fleet of diesel-electric express locomotives to run between Kings Cross and Edinburgh, envisioning either multiple-working or combined A- and B-units.
3) GWR - Made plans for electrification of the London-Reading suburban system on the main line and of the line between Taunton and Plymouth to speed and ease operations over the South Devon Banks. Before WW2 the GWR had applied for government funding to spend £4 million on electrification from Taunton all the way to Penzance, and planned to build a new inland route avoiding the Dawlish seawall. The approach of war led to that scheme being dropped in mid 1939 and the slimmed down version reappeared after 1945. The GWR also had its 'Kerosene Castle' experiments with gas turbine locomotives, seen as the solution for speeding up traffic between the electrified sections and on the non-electrified routes to south Wales and Birmingham.
4) SR - The most comprehensive and essentially a continuation of the 1930s electrification scheme. The SR saw the future as putting third-rail on all its lines east of the London-Basingstoke-Bournemouth main line. Any lines in this zone that did not justify electrification or adoption of DEMU services (using EE power and traction gear of similar design to the existing stock of EMUs) would be closed. The line to Salisbury, Exeter and beyond would be worked by diesels - Bulleid had provided the prototypes for the 1600hp express diesels and the 1500hp electrics for working on the third rail. Smaller mixed-traffic diesels and electro-diesels would work freight in the west, which would be rationalised with most goods yards being closed and freight consolidated into large 'hub yards', each serving a roughly 20-mile radius with pickup and collection by road. Electric locomotives (like Bulleid's CC1 and CC2) would work fast passenger expresses during the day and freights between the Channel ports and London at night.
Of the four, the two plans that saw the most daylight were the LMS's and the SR's. The SR's plan is basically what happened on the BR(S), albeit without the retention of freight work and without the high-power diesel-worked expresses to the west. LMS policy had a lot of influence on BR in the early days, so we got the Standard steam locomotives drawing heavily on Ivatt/Riddles ideas, DMMUs for secondary/rural routes and - after a wasted delay and then a rushed panic - diesel traction in preference to electrification.
@@hairyairey Well, yes. But that's not the point I was making. How do you know as to whether India's spend on her railway system is a good investment? From memory India's railways are fully nationalised, so there is no price mechanism to establish value.
You certainly got a lot of video content out of that visit to York! But good video today. I remember nearly all of those trains & engines. I still remember my first sight of an electric loco, in that Electric Blue, just drifting silently (it seemed) light loco through Crewe station.
Yes, that depressing moment when you see a unit, that used to take you to school, in a museum...
I am amazed at how long steam stayed on in transport. Even here in the States.
Coal was cheap
@@highpath4776 Except in North Am, what fired the last generations of locos was mostly bunker C oil. And it was injected. And it also was "cheap", but also filthy like coal.
Last non-heritage steam trains in NSW ran in 1987 on the Stockrington-Hexham coal roads.
Charity shops are where are the best railway books are found
And vinyl 😊😊😊😊
And old Matchbox and Corgi and EFE!
Heritage railway stations are best. Also for old magazines
A time when we were saddened by the dirt and grime not cleaned from A3s, A4s and B1s(other Regional fans please use your favourite steam classes here) and regarded DMUs and even Deltics with at best, indifference.
So thank you for this video, I now regard Deltics, Peaks and many DMUs with some level of affection.
OK I'll add the GWR 14XX class.
@@Rog5446 indeed, any GWR locomotive may be added. Most welcome, with King Arthur’s or Black Fives. Or any other we remember.
Obviously fate had me train spotting at Finsbury Park. In the park overlooking the mainline adjacent to the red cinder football pitches.
Maybe Jago could do “great places we knew to train spot?”
First time I’ve ever been sold on an Ad, Readly sounds perfect for me. Was looking for a subscription to a railway magazine but couldn’t decide between ‘The Railway Magazine’ or ‘Rail’- now I get both, and for less
I love what the past thinks the future will be like. It looks like a good read. North british locos were sadly a disaster.
Looking back at looking forwards
On the electric situation: the overhead wires are - as far as I know - now all 25 kV 50 Hz AC. A few 1500 V DC engines were sold the the Netherlands when that transition was eventually made. There they provided some much needed extra traction, renamed to the NS 1500 series.
The Tyne and Wear Metro network operates 1.5kV DC overhead wires
For National Rail services yes ... but trams and the Tyne & Wear Metro (which shares tracks with diesel NR trains) use DC OHLE.
@@bobtekkas2734Ooh, I do not like the idea of overhead cables on tunnels..Is the T+W Metro all above ground?
@@quantisedspace7047 Actually overhead cables work fine in tunnels, both for 1500V dc and 25000V ac, as long as proper precautions are taken in design with insulation and spacing. For example, the east-west suburban lines in Glasgow are in tunnel with 25 kV ac overhead lines.
@@quantisedspace7047 [Ooh, I do not like the idea of overhead cables on tunnels] Best you not ride Crossrail. Google: "Installation of rigid overhead catenary in Crossrail tunnels". It's being done in many modern tunnel installations. Very safe, much more so than 3rd rail.
You make a great point about previous companies using different types of electrification. By the time this was published, the Eastern Region would’ve had four different electrification systems. The 25 kV (+ 6.25 kV) AC out of Liverpool St, 1.5kV DC on the Woodhead Route, 600 V DC 3rd rail around Newcastle, and then a 600 V dual catenary/3rd rail system on the Quayside Branch
3rd rail around Newcastle, interesting - I’ve never noticed any, what happened to it? If you don’t mind me asking…
@@paultidd9332 It was all de-electrified in the 60s by the geniuses in charge of British Railways at the time and replaced with worse diesel operation. With the creation of the Tyne and Wear Metro from all these old British Rail lines it was all thankfully re-electrified, though to a unique system for the UK (overhead 1.5kV DC).
Clearly this video nails the lie that there was come halcyon period while the railways were nationalised. It's easy to knock the current set up of multiple operators but at least it feels like rail has a future. As Jago indicates each region had its own vision of the future.
Back in 1960 the Beeching axe was just 3 years away. All that happened while the state owned and ran the network. I know British Rail sandwiches were a joke, but that was a red herring for how badly the whole system was run. Are services better today? Yes. At a cost? Yes, also.
@@bobtekkas2734 Although 1.5 kV DC was the original LNER/BR system used for the Shenfield electrification as well as Woodhead. It got converted to 25 kV ac in the 1960s which allowed better power delivery though initially with some loss of reliability.
@@rogink There was never a halcyon period whether nationalised or not, and only the rose-tinted glasses brigade think there was (in the 1950s and 1960s they would have been looking back to the Big 4 and saying those were halcyon days; in the 1930s they would have been looking back to pre-Great War, and so on).
Like any massive network of organisations, the railway has always been a curate's egg: good in parts.
Always was, still is today and always will be.
Hi Jago from a warm Spain 35° at 8.30 pm. 1959, I was on a detachment to an establishment in the west of Cumbria as it is now known. Most services were steam hauled as far as Workington. One of the weekends I was there. I bought a Rover ticket and travelled up to Whitehaven where I changed to a DMU through to Keswick. I found a coach tour leaving at 2.30 going round the lakes. In the meantime I took a little motorboat on Derwentwater. I was all fascinating watching the driver on the DMU and then, sat next to the driver in the coach. On the Sunday, I went the other way and ended up in Morecambe. The next weekend, i went on the Ravenglass and Eskdale Railway and apart from my entertainment, it was all expenses paid. I liked DMUs
Isn't it about time Mr Hazzard, with his love of 'all- things-train', did a piece on Puffing Billy in Queen's Park Chesterfield?! I was watching it at work only today!
The Deltic was not actually designed specifically for the East Coast main line. It was a speculative venture by English Electric and was tried out first on the London Midland Region who didn't want high-speed two-stroke engines. The Eastern then took them because they were the only diesels with a good enough power-to-weight ratio to give the desired end-to-end speeds; the LM had electrification coming up instead. Deltics were high maintenance but revolutionised the crack express services.
I for one always count on Jago to provide a glimpse of a brighter, parallel universe.
Got a feeling I had that booklet (or a slightly later edition) as a child, which became dog-eared through much reading. Love the “blue train” EMU on the front cover. They ran on lines in the Glasgow area back then, they looked so futuristic!
Oh and one of those photos was of the Sheffield to Manchester electric route via Peniston and that was closed too!
I recall being told as a youngster by station staff at Sheffield Midland that the station would soon be electrified like Sheffield Victoria ! Decades later and still no juice.
At least it's (probably, hopefully) finally happening now they're electrifying the MML for HS2 services to the east. Meanwhile, Victoria and the line to Hadfield suffered from being a testbed for overhead electrification, ending up a stretch of non-standard line, which demanded non-standard locomotives. So much for the efforts of the past, I guess.
@@jockcox Woodhead could nevertheless have been converted to 25 kV ac (like Hadfield-Manchester and the Shenfield line), the snag was that the need for the route disappeared as the Hope Valley route was preferred.
@@jockcox Sorry, but it wasn't a test bed; there had already been 1500v lines in north east England when the Weir report of 1931 recommended it be adopted as the British standard - the MSJ&A followed soon afterwards on this system
I've got a feeling that Jago may have been stuck for an hour or so outside Doncaster station. I wonder what the people of 2080 would say about the railway modernisation plans of today and whether Crossrail, HS2, the 80x fleet and the like were worth the effort
Crossrail already nigh overwhelmed . should have had quad track through the core. HS2 at London end, wrong planned "terminus" driven by development not connectivity.
@@highpath4776 I don't think there's any need for quad track on Crossrail - how would they use it if they had it? If trains are already full, that may be because they aren't using the line to its full potential, but the solution then is to run more trains. There are currently 16tph through the core section between Whitechapel and Paddington. I can't find anything definitive but I'm sure it was planned for a capacity of at least 24tph, if not 30tph, so there should be plenty of scope to increase capacity of the system within existing infrastructure.
@@stevieinselby there is a build call option to extend each train by one carriage. Both outer segments are suffering from the same old power/signalling delays too. One could easily run a Bristol To Colchester Service
@@highpath4776 No way would the class 345s be acceptable on a journey of that length, even Reading is pushing it.
@@stevieinselby I didnt say the present rolling stock would be suitable for a semi-express service (basically Bristol-Swindon-Didcot-(Newbury?)-Reading-(Slough?)-Ealing Broadway- (OOC)-Paddington-TCR-Farringdon-Liv St-Whitechapel-Stratford-Ilford-Romford-Shenfield-Chelmsford-Colchester ( actually with bi-modes there is the possibity of the "ends" actually routing around london on the NLL to allow for track maintenance or a re-work of the failed (in part due to wrong times and slow journey) Anglia service that ran to Basingstoke. The reason for making it semi-fast would be to take some extra Reading passengers into the core section leaving more space for Maidenhead etc passengers that have been complaining of overcrowding. Alternative stock (at least with WC facilities) would be needed
Just bought a copy of this booklet on-line .Judging by the pictures it was well read at the time . Looking forward to reading it myself . Thank you Jago for this video
0:38 “We’ll have flying cars.”, they said.
Great Video, I once drove from Swindon to Shildon on an invite to the cab of the APT-E (seen in the video) and met Kit Spackman in the cab after sending the APT-E project a video copy of cine' film my dad took of it leaving Uffington loop on its speed run in the 1970s (don't ask exact times but I was under 10yrs BUT there whilst my dad filmed to train) But my drive up and back was interesting as from Swindon to York (Shildon) there is only 3 roundabouts! Ok swindon has many including a magic one but the "road" to Yorkshire is a 60/70 mph non stop highway it was a great day out and luckily I took the 1.1lts wife's Citroen and not my V8 Land Rover!
I remember Dad taking me to see the new local diesel trains at Leeds City Station in the late 50s. Many years later, when I went to the Llangollen railway the ticket issuer apologised that they had no steam train on, only the kind of DMU I had been to see 50 years before. I was delighted!
Yes, a lot of BR were enthusiastic about modernisation, while many steam enthusiasts and railwaymen weren't (think of early Rev Awdry books). The video neatly captures some key failures; the sad story of North British Loco (Classes 21/22/41/43/84), the Metrovick Co-Bos and the rackety Blue Pullman; the HST gave a far superior ride and gives the comfort of the Midland Pullman without the vibration and oscillation (even apparent on the original publicity film!). But a lot of good stuff was done as well.
There is an American TH-camr called "History In the Dark" who does a lot of railway videos - among them was a recent video on the history (and failure) of NBL, explaining in some decent detail the reasons for what went wrong (and there was a lot going on) - well worth a view.
The HST was something like 20 years of development later, so comparing the blue pullman with it is a bit unfair.
@camenbert5837 The time difference between the two wasn't actually that great: the MIdland Pullmans first appeared in 1960, while the first Class 41 set (as they were initially known) appeared in 1972, only 6 years after the Pullmans were withdrawn.
Also, the actual development of the HST was pretty short (less than 5 years), owing to a desire to create a stopgap for the delayed APT project, so it's not unreasonable to believe that Derby used the knowledge and experience of the MPs in the HST program, even indirectly.
Is it unfair to compare the two? Maybe, it's like comparing a Mk2 coach to a Mk3; the MP was a really good concept that suffered from the Modernisation Plan Effect, whereby a much tighter remit would likely have produced a better product (and who knows, the train may been more successful on the ECML or GWML).
I like all your videos but this one is special for us historians out there. It's always good to review the predictions and see how we did.
OMG! If any of you folks have young children, you will have seen a cartoon show called Chuggington. Seeing the pictures of the 1960's locos that Jago is presenting is making me realize that the artists for the show based their designs on actual locos from the 1960's. I am both shocked and amazed. I can't wait to tell my sons.
more electrifying non-esoteric predictions of the future, please
Loved the breakfasts, dinners and service on the ECML Pullmans (Tees/Leeds/Hull) Leaving KX at 5.00pm, 5.05pm and 50.10pm if I remember correctly. (Had to use 12 hour times as YT changed the 24 hr versions into video timeline markers )
I was lucky enough to see (and video) the Midland Pullman HST heading through Preston a couple of weeks ago - and a splendid train it is.
I think the thumbnail has one of the blue trains that were used on the Glasgow network. They failed spectacularly on the first day of passenger service. That should be worth a video.
Old coaches and old steam engines had to be cobbled together in a hurry. It was winter and the old coaches were iced up on the inside.
Mum was in Clydebank at the time and specifically remembers the ice in the coaches.
Per Deltics. There is or was the cab of a baby Deltic in a pub car park in Derby. When I lived in Notts, a friend had a job in Derby and got a picture of it for me, but I never did get to that pub to see for myself.
One big problem with them was a transformer exploded and caused a fire. They quickly took them all out of service leaving no option but to cobble up whatever they could to run a service. Unlike today like when Azumas cracks were discovered they just did not run anything, the privatised railway has no spare stock
I’m very fond of these musing videos. Your channel has a great variety.
What a fantastic find. The staff writers at Ian Allan were pretty spot on.
English Electric. They really did craft a number of fantastic machines, from Deltics, Canberras, Lightnings and even washing machines.
The old Ian Allan books, I still have my Combined Volume from 1965.
I also remember seeing Evening Star going through Tooting. I thing it did a tour of all the regions before it was retired.
Wow, you've reminded me that I have this. I must have "borrowed" it from my Dad when I was quite young as I remember being quite fascinated with it.
Must dig it out!
Riding a DMU through Fife and being right behind the driver (who was on the left), you got a great view of the Forth Bridge "from the inside" so to speak. Somewhere I have photographs. Sadly, an experience no longer available to anyone bar a driver/fireman or maintenance worker.
I always enjoy these sort of books, have quite a number on my shelves. Ahem.
I suppose I had to take a look at this, as a bit of a rail fan and being born in 1961, so thanks for this insight into the rail scene as I'd just arrived on Planet Earth.
In 1968 I used to take a train from Burton Joyce (2 stops east of Nottingham) to Newark (The service was Derby to Lincoln). The stock was diesel 3 car multiple units (I don't remember which make). Being able to see past the driver was pleasant, however, only the middle unpowered car could be in any way described as comfortable as the 2 power cars had the engine mounted under the floor creating much vibration accompanied by constant rattling. Transmission was mechanical so gear changing seemed rather quaint for a railway locomotive.
However, the most quaint element of these journeys concerned the infrastructure. Level crossing gates were mostly effected by pushing, station lighting was by means of tilly lamps that the station operative had to climb a ladder to put in place just before the train arrived and remove afterwards. Toilets were male only and consisted of slate slabs in an open air corner of the building.
Signalling was of course semaphore; the crossing of the East Coast main line at Newark was at grade !! (finally replaced by a flyover).
In 1969, a fellow student and myself (now at Derby Art College) did a project to modernise the line for which we took photos of many of the stations (now lost) and some mock-ups of vehicle designs. We also created an outline timetable that envisaged running 2 trains / hour for much of the day as the time between each of the main stations (Derby, Nottingham, Newark & Lincoln) was approx 30 mins so arriving/departing at quarter to and quarter past the hour. We thought - perhaps rather idealistally, that such frequency would make the line useful to the general public rather than just to students who didn't have cars !
All this took place at the time that the APT was beginning its test runs - quite a contrast.
If I wasn't already signed up to Readly, I would be double-quick after that masterful smooth transition... cap doffed!
A quick search of the title reveals the book to be from sometime in 1960. I love seeing historical publications, especially on something I'm familiar with in the modern era; it's great to compare the old with the new and see what's changed.
I can remember riding on the Trans Pennine DMU's from Leeds to Manchester they looked very smart with there curved windscreens and they also had a mini buffet in one of the coaches I think they were the smartest of the 1st generation DMU's had I have seen that little book I would have bought as well thanks for another great video Jago
The British Railways Design Panel developed the styling of both these and the Glasgow "Blue Trains" and I always thought the curved windscreens looked very sllek and modern. Sadly they were also more expensive than flat glass and more difficult to keep watertight. The perils of style ... We got similar wraparound top deck windows on some of our local Southdown buses in the 1960s as well, again they looked good but weren't perpetuated.
@@iankemp1131 [Sadly they were also more expensive than flat glass and more difficult to keep watertight. ]
Didn't the Wessex Electrics have the same malady? And when refurbished later, they lost their curved front windscreens?
@@stephensaines7100 Not sure, I have a vague idea I may have heard this before. Don't know whether the windscreens changed, would need to look at a photo (there's a 2019 photo on Wikipedia that seems to show they were retained). I hadn't realised that SWR bought and then stripped and scrapped the entire fleet only a couple of years after refurbishment.
The deltic is my favourite diesel engine. My family spent a lot of time in Berwick on Tweed and the sight and sound of the Deltic crossing the river Tweed sticks in the memory.
This is literally my favourite of your videos so far! and I've seen quite a few of them. Thanks!
Modern trains do have the feature of being able to see out the front though! So long as you're in Japan, that is.
or on a driverless train just about anywhere in the world
Here in Jakarta ,Indonesia we also has front view cause we are using ex JR 205 series EMU in Jakarta commuter train
Or the DLR or any number of other trains.
I can very much appreciate that the modernization in Britain looked to eventually fully electrify, and use diesel in the meantime, and when electrification was not possible. In North America, it was use diesel and then use more diesel. Great for freight, I suppose, but no wonder passenger service is an afterthought.
Two particular reasons; plenty of cheap oil in North America, and much longer distances greatly increasing fixed infrastructure costs.
Enjoyed the walk down memory lane.
And a parallel approval from this alternate reality... Way to go, Jago!
The Blue Pullman was designed by the Brutalist sculptor and industrial designer William Mitchell, otherwise known for the bell tower and doors of the Metropolitan Cathedral in Liverpool, the Stations of The Cross murals at Clifton Cathedral in Bristol, and the Egyptian escalators in Harrods, as well as many concrete murasl in 1960s shopping centres all over the country. Its internal features included an inlaid wooden decorative panel at the end of each carriage, adjustable seats "borrowed" from a Russian train, and luggage racks "borrowed" from a VC10.
Very good Jago. I was a young man while all this was going on
In 1948 there was a short film called The Chicken of Tomorrow that despite narration by the formidable Lowell Thomas was rather droll. It was still remarkably prophetic about the huge increase in popularity of chicken as food, partly thanks to better breeding and improvements in technology, some as humble as better motor vehicles to transport chickens at every stage of life and death. Chicken sandwiches and chicken nuggets were unknown and now they’re ubiquitous.
Some quaint prophetic media end up being somewhat accurate.
increase in popularity of chicken as food, largly due to their reduced costs compared to other meats, which was result of the introduction of factory farming..
I remember the Blue Pullman on the Western Region. I thought they were the future of the railways, but then they disappeared. But the 125s came and the vision came to fruition.
Absolutely. And the HST gave a much better ride at 125 than the Blue Pullman at 90! Even in the original publicity film you can see the vibration and the effect on the teacups ...
@@iankemp1131 That's almost all down to the MK3 carriages though, not the traction.
@@stephensaines7100 I tend to see the units as a whole. If the suspension on the later carriages was better, it was likewise for the power units. Indeed not just the Blue Pullman but also some first generation diesels, notably the Warships, had bad riding qualities.
I find it fascinating that the development of electric locomotives differed from that of diesel traction. Diesel appeared to be more of a free-for-all with a broad variety, with electric they focused on four main classes, with subsequent classes taking the best bits from the past. The Class 76 were an anomaly, due in part to the line itself.
As you say, all a bit of a rush, I guess for the electric classes they had a bit more time to prototype given the need to electrify the p-way first.
On the plus side, a rich variety of diesel locomotives to rival that of the 'kettles'.
For the electrics they only really had to cover the new London Midland electrification so there was uniformity of tasks compared to the vast range covered by diesel traction. So they ended up with 5 similar prototype classes built by different manufacturers, 10 engines each. The more successful classes (81 and 85) were then expanded, and evolved to the Class 86 and 87. I think all were nominally designed for mixed traffic.
The electrification of the Woodhead route was designed before WW2, with a lot of the work being suspended during the war. At that time, the choice was really either 1500 DC, or low-frequency ac (as used in Germany, Austria, Switzerland). Standard industrial frequency 25 kV ac came along later, with the development of rectifiers that could be carried on board the trains so as to use dc motors (well before the advent of variable frequency ac ones, which are the norm now).
@@johnkeepin7527 Indeed, and even when 25 kV ac was first introduced there seem to have been reliability problems with the initial rectifiers; mercury arc on Classes 81-85 and I assume the same on the first ac emus (classes 308/309) as I recall Gerry Fiennes writing adverse comments about 25kV ac compared to 1500V dc.
Just seeing it on the train at the end there is there enough content for a video on the double arrow British rail logo (for a long time thought it was meant to be a lightning bolt showing electrification!)
Love the videos whatever the topic!
Is there a reason why modern British multiple units don't have the see through cab windows anymore? Most Japanese trains today still have that feature.
crash worthiness ?
A consensus seemed to develop between both unions and management that the drivers didn't want people peering over their shoulder and watching what they were doing. In later years the blinds were often pulled down to prevent this. I travelled a lot of lines and videod where I could before the dmus disappeared. At least you can still enjoy the experience on some heritage railways, although only at 25 mph. A dmu hammering along at its maximum of 70 could be fun either in front or back cabs watching the line unwind in front of you.
I've recently acquired a pile of old railway books of this period from a friend whose father-in-law passed away. A lot of these book collections are also ending up in charity shops. If you see any - snap them up! They are a mine of information and fascinating old black & white pictures.
For anyone else who is inheriting transport books and memorabilia from the past, and you don't wish to keep them, please consider donating them to your local transport museum. Most museums have retail outlets which will be perused by enthusiasts and there will always be a thriving marketplace.
@@LesD9 That's a good point - better than throwing them in the skip. I was at Hellified station a few months ago and the souvenir shop there had a good selection of secondhand books which are a mine of information and photos which you wouldn't find online in this internet-obsessed age. Having said that, some books are better than others - shop carefully!
Good grief. I used to have a copy of that booklet, probably picked up by my Dad at a second hand bookshop as I was only 4 in 1960. I don't seem to have it now, probably fell apart from being read over and over.
We're only three years away from "London 2026", and no closer to that kind of air transport either
One of my favourite books is "British Locomotives", published by the Locomotive and Allied Manufacturers' Association of Great Britain, probably in around 1961. It's a triumph of publishing design, and suffused with the romance of lost causes, as most of the manufacturers would go bust within a few years. The pictures of British trains made for export are particularly interesting.
Don't mean to sound pedantic, but do you mean ;Diesel Locomotives'?
That sort of matches your description, but includes some details of early BR modernisation plan diesels; my copy shows 'Third edition' on the front, and it cost 2/6 (12.5p in "new" money). And I'm its only owner!
electrification is still the future so that's very much the same
I think if steam had been phased out slower and getting more overhead electrification had been priorotised we mich have been a bit better of many people seem to forget that when the Japanese were opening the tokaido shinkansen they still had steam engines in service.
I hope Britain's railways can become more ambitious and optimistic for the future but I think a successful reform of the industry would be needed for that to happen
What Jago crystallized for me was the hopelessly disparate array of non-standard designs, which I always knew, but to put it in the context of being the case a few years before Beeching really puts a a less-spoken onus on the need for rationalization. Could you imagine an airline running so many disparate planes and surviving as an intact entity?
Signed up a year ago Jago, when you recommend them, very happy.
Regarding today's video one of the problems was that the drawings of Voith, Maybach,Mekydro etc were in millimetres/metric and had to be converted to imperial, suspect that tolerances weren't necessarily accurate.
The real Spirit of Progess was an Australian train running in Victoria on the broad gauge. One for you to research when you have a spare couple of hours.
Damn, in my head I was like "ooh look, a Metropolitan-Vickers Diesel Electric Type 2" just as you predicted my thoughts.
What amazes me is that even though British Rail was heading up all the railways, why wasn't there a standards committee to oversee development of the various electric systems and diesels.
I dont think they wanted to face up to the cost of the implication of choosing a particular one
@@highpath4776 That's very possible. It could also be that the different companies that made up BR at the time each had their own designs unlike what is done today.
Over here, the New Haven Railroad (New York New Haven and Hartford) electrified its mainline between New Haven, Connecticut and New York City due to New York City banning steam locomotives from city limits.
This was back around 1907 when things were still very experimental. The New Haven chose 11KV at 25 Hz. Later on, when the Pennsylvania Railroad electrified, they used a modern catenary system with 25KV at 60 Hz which is the standard used today.
This is expected here since these were private railroad companies and not ones under a single umbrella.
Needless to say, the two systems didn't talk to each other well and it took a while to work out the gear to change voltages on the fly. The New Haven being innovators, developed dual-mode locomotives in the mid-1950s. The FL-9s were the first diesel to electric locomotives that were able to switch between diesel-electric right to third-rail 600V for entry into Grand Central.
The famous Penn Station in NY City also served the third-rail powered Long Island Railroad and this made for quite the setup with the three different systems all integrated into one.
Ref:There was a Standards Committee,and that established the DC and AC voltages used interwar,but when the French came out with the high voltage AC,that later was used as an alternative standard! Good old Ian Allan had a book on that subject,and it was published during the 1970's,so there was/is a snapshot of a transitions stage in the history! I apologize for not naming the book,as my library was broken up,and I no longer have access! Pure memory drill! Thank you Jago,for illuminating an overlooked corner of British Railways history! Thank you 😇 😊!
@@Clavichordist Ref: The original PRR AC electrification was 11,000 volts,25 cycle! Amtrak was the one who did the uprating to 60 cycle! That was one of the reasons why the GG-1's were ousted from service! The E33's,and E44's could make the transition was because of the rectifiers,as that didn't matter about the input current! All current engines use solid state systems,so again there is no problem! Note; the old New Haven catenary can handle the voltage,as it was overbuilt to begin with! Also the Italians,used 3 phase AC,and still use the same catenary for the 25,000 volt,just by putting the two wires together! Again,most lines are overbuilt,and can stand more than most people think! Thank you 😇 😊!
They *wanted* diversity rather than standardisation, it was a deliberate choice. Diesel and OHLE were still new technology in the UK (although live rail electrification was more established, and of course OHLE was more widespread in some other countries, but what kind of barbarian savages would we be if we had to take lessons from the French? 🤔), so the view was that rather than have a top-down standardisation that might back the wrong horse, we could allow a variety of designs and models to proliferate and then we could see what was most successful and take it from there.
Proving that allowing the free market to rule the roost has been the cause of costly mistakes on British railways since long before 1995...
A thoughtful piece. I like the implication that it's impossible to be optimistic about anything these days. I think the time is coming closer for your considered opinion on Beeching and Marples. I'm sure it will have to be a series but I'm ready for the long haul.
At the time of the Modernisation Plan no one knew which would be better transmission system - hydraulic or electric. Although the hydraulic system lost out to the electric for locomotives, they are still used in many of the DMUs in service today.
The reason that it feels so optimistic is that it pre-dates the Beeching Axe. Richard Beeching published his infamous reports in 1963 & 1965, outlining 5,000 miles of tracks to abandoned and 55% of all then-existing stations to be closed. Beeching's recommendations only worsened the financial state of the railways by starving them of passengers and freight.
Thank Jago for another very interesting video. I had the sad pleasure of eating the last steam hauled “Golden Arrow” past through Tonbridge Station on its way to London. Another happy memory of seeing and hearing there characteristic sound* of the class 201 DEMUs leaving Tonbridge Station with trains bound for Hastings and London, the characteristic sound of their 4 cylinder supercharged English Electric Diesel engines gained them the name “Thumpers”
My question is: was the Pacer the last truly British built train? (I admit a like the 142s etc.) Best wishes from Oxfordshire.
I hope you mean "eating on" ... consuming a steam train sounds rather indigestible (tough on the teeth too) :)
Nice find Jago.
Have you tried searching the Wayback Machine to see if they have any old railway brochures or advertising documents in their collection?
I recently found some BEAUTIFUL ads in old National Geographic magazines! Bought for the volcanoes, stayed for the trains!!😂
It may have been rushed and very non standardised, but you could argue this made modernisation era BR one of the most diverse and interesting networks in the world at that time, and even to this day. I wasn't around then but I can just imagine the impact of a shiny new Deltic rumbling into the station, or those sleek early AC electrics humming away while the old tanks engines chuffed and hissed in the background. It must have been a really exciting time!
Plus of course, everything was made in Britain, for Britain. No need to contract everything out to foreign builders back then like we do now. Ah well.
Definitely a fascinating retrospective view showing how far behind British Railways already was as compared to the rest of continental Europe (mainly France, Germany, Switzerland and Italy) probably due to the literally hereditary (or shall we say congenital?) lack of any form of unification between the various rival companies and networks (a plague that has greatly hampered London tube network too).
Also a nasty attack of Luftwaffe and/or RAF meaning things had to ne rebuilt there. And marshall plan money to pay for it
Cracking video as always it was nice to remenice 👍
Until recently, I think that they have been retired now, Freightliner were still using the Class 86 or AL6 all it was a tiny bit different from the AC electric in your book which was either a Class 81/2/3/4/5(they all look the same!).The Class 86 and 87 didn't have that slightly sloped front and the 87 only 2 windows whereas the rest ,81 to 86 had 3.
Nice find Jago & thanks for sharing !
Couldn't agree more about the last of optimism in the railway today. The pride has gone - let's hope not for too long!
the dream of electrification is still a long way off - all but the most major lines in northern and south-western England, and much of Wales and Scotland, still run on diesel
much of this has to do with the existing bridges and tunnels being too low to fit overhead cables under; the southern approach to Sheffield, for instance, goes through some very hilly country, and runs through some long late-Victorian tunnels (also the reason why the links between Sheffield and points south came much later than the links in other directions)
when governments talk about "achieving net zero" I pessimistically interpret that as "all but the most major railway lines outside London will be scrapped"
Brilliant video sir!
There is a very good reason passengers can no longer see out of the front of multiple units.
I have had two.
Thing was, our railways were ahead of the game for many years until the big American loco builders unable to break into the pre-EEC Commonwealth started literally cutting prices way under Britain's range and you know the saying about money talks, it talked so badly that it also helped bury Britain's primary place as provider of loco's and rolling stock then Major came along and allowed the worlds vulture corporations to feast on what was left. The class 91 and 390's are prob the last swansong of BREL, although to be fair the class 86 is still a prized workhorse and there have been rumour's abound that quietly behind the scenes Britain wouldn't be too unhappy if Bulgaria and Romania offered us back our class 87s and the same with the power cars of Australia's XPT which were HSTs Aussie style. We of course love to hate on the Pacer but wow, what an astonishing feat of budget building that lasted way way beyond its original 10 year lifespan remit, day in and day out they rumbled along providing cheap transport to the masses, what did they want? Jam on it?
Sorry, but for freight haulage especially, North Am builders were generations ahead. Which is why so many fifty year old GM and other (GE et al) locos are still running, some being refurbished every few decades.
For diesel and passenger, again, the US (and by by default, Canada, many export GM Diesel models were built in London, Ontario) were pioneers in distance train sets even before WWII.
It's really only in the last two generations that Europe has surpassed North Am for quality passenger locomotion, and most of that is German. (Siemens et al).
Make no mistake, as a Brit Dual, UK traction still calls somewhere deep to me, and present day UK traction has come a long way, now leading sometimes.
Growing up with the prototype HST and both APTs I was gobsmacked when I discovered the Blue Pullmans and couldn't believe they were all scrapped. Equally as awful as cutting up the Twins and HS4000 Kestrel.
The HST really superseded both the Blue Pullmans and the Kestrel - much better ride quality than the former, more flexibility than the latter. The new Midland/Blue Pullman in an HST shell will give a much more comfortable ride, especially when soup, tea or wine are around!
By the time my little boyhood had understood what a steam engine was, they had (at that moment) all gone. But I was more infected (somehow subcutaneously, since I was too young to attend it in any real way) by the Wilson "white heat of technology" speech (1964), reflected so faithfully by this Ian Allen publication. To this day I rage at the non-completion of the then promised whole-system electrification. We (eight year olds) were promised it. So where is it (we've reached about 50%)?
Jago is the big window at the front of our trains.
Always good details.