Great video and a good refresher! On the recirculation line, I usually throw a nozzle on the end, open, and drop it in the tank. Adds a little extra weight to the end of the line to keep it in the tank.
Great simple explanation. Really like your engine layout as well. Beats standing in the road and you can see what's going on regardless of which way the truck's parked.
We use foot valve strainers. Open the tank to pump, it “back fills” the suction hose(s) with tank water so there is no air to expel upon drafting. You can pull draft immediately because the entire pump and suction hose(s) are already full of water. Also, a blow up beach ball works well at stopping the venturi “tornado”. The ball takes up no room, only needs a few breaths to inflate it enough, and good it in the tank. We’ve also just dropped in used scba cylinder in. They’ll just float around also and break up that tornado.
I don't trust the diamond pattern unless you are in a parking lot.. Most rural FD set these up on the road. If its set as a diamond, you make you "tender" have to line up to a diamond point. If its done correctly, the tender driver has the whole length of the tank to dump the load.
Very informative video with the exception of the 4" suction miscue (you're forgiven). I've never seen a recirc line used on the fire ground. I've also never seen a pump in good condition lose prime if water flow is halted.
Love the video and thank you for the training time. Last time I drafted was in the academy. We barely do draft, but i feel its important to know. One silly question though, our rig that I mainly work on doesn't have an RPM mode it's either pressure or volume. Most of the time, we pump in volume. It's a waterous pump on an 01 Seagrave. Would appreciate some tips or tricks brothers
If you have a pressure/volume switch that means you have a two-stage pump. A two stage pump has two impellers. The pressure/volume switch operates a transfer valve. In pressure the valve will allow the impellers to work in "series" meaning your intake water enters the first impeller, increases in speed/pressure, then enters the second impeller which increases the water speed/pressure higher prior to discharge. This allows your pump to provide higher pressures at lower engine RPMs. Pressure mode is usually only effective up to (I think) about 500 GPMs discharge. Then the water will become too turbulent so you would want to switch to volume mode (warn crews and throttle down first) for higher GPM discharge. In volume (parallel) mode the transfer valve will divert half the intake water into one impeller and the other half into the second impeller. Each impeller will add pressure to the water before it joins back together for discharge. This is used to reduce friction loss in the pump when you are supplying larger GPMs (>500). Since you don't have an RPM mode that means your pump does not use an electronic pressure governor. Your pump probably has a hand turn throttle and a "manual" pressure relief valve. So you adjust the throttle (increase or decrease) to achieve your desired discharge pressure and then set your pressure relief valve slightly above the highest psi you are discharging. That protects other discharge lines or the pump from excess water hammer back pressure. A pressure governor would achieve that back pressure protection in "PSI" mode by sensing the back pressure and electronically adjusting the engine RPM to maintain the discharge pressures you have set. A pressure governor in "RPM" mode does not regulate or adjust the engine RPM is simply leaves it where you set it.
Shoutout to anybody at a working fire watching this cuz they've never operated a pump but they're the only one who showed up besides the attack team. Skip to 9:25
I know I'm a year late, but when first explaining how to draft without the primer you said over and over to pull the tank to pump. Then after you got the draft you said if the prime doesn't work pull the take fill. Which is right?
You would need to get water into your tank from another source or a water supply from another source. Another unit with water could start a water supply to you and as you received it you could use it the same if your tank had water to purge the air form the Hard Sleeve. Of course they would be filling the reservoir as well if you were using that if using a static water supply such as river stream lake pool or cistern that would be unnecessary.
After setting the governor to RPM mode, what is the recommended option? 1) Is it better to increase the pump RPM to range(800-1250) before priming? I guess, this will be bad for pump? (or) 2) Is it better to prime and then increase the pump RPM to desired requirement?
Shyju catch the draft before increasing the RPM’s. Having high RPM’s without water in the pump will burn it up, as would not moving water out that’s in the pump. Water in the pump just moving around and not going out a discharge creates heat and the higher RPM’s create more heat faster which will destroy the pump, it can actually get hot enough to turn the water into steam creating pressure as well. Additionally it can cause water hammer “if” you catch the draft at high RPM’s, especially with older pumps that don’t automatically compensate for water hammer. Having the discharge open that leads to the nozzle where firefighters will be waiting for water will also get hammered with the nozzle pressure all at once if the RPM’s are high versus a gradual increase, however, slowly opening the discharge will compensate for that. This could lead to losing control of the nozzle or the ground monitor which is very dangerous.
Hello Frank, thanks for viewing. We use pressure mode for normal pumping, but we do not use pressure mode for drafting as it is prone to fluctuations which can cause you to lose your draft. RPM mode ensures that we are pulling water from the draft at a consistent rate that does not fluctuate.
Frank, RPM mode holds the engine at whichever RPM you set it at. Pressure mode holds the engine at the pressure you set. When air hits the pump as you are establishing your draft - the engine will go back to idle if you're in psi mode. You can (And should) go back to PSI mode after you've established your draft.
Levi M: Every company has variables in policy/operations. Companies at this locale are urban/suburban. Rarely need to draft, having dry hydrants available. This just happens to be Aurora FD's SOP, geared towards training their own crews.
@@davidb9323: Context. Drafting is dependent on location/resources/circumstances. Commonly used by rural/exurban companies that lack hydrant infrastructure. Pumper/tankers normally get this assignment, but engines may/can/do perform the job relaying water from source to fire site.
I was thinking thinking the same thing. I'm not sure if those are Nomex. We are not allowed to wear our standard station uniforms without our badges, training or not. Each department is different with different policies. Greetings from Los Angeles 🚒🇺🇲
How many inaccurate statements can we find? He continuously refers the hard suctions as being 4", yet its a 1500 gpm pumper.... those are 6" dude!!! States you can put "up to two" hard suctions together for longer reach......... um, you can use more than 2 skippy. Diamond setup is outdated. He talks about backing into the porta tanks, you only back in when you dont have side dumps. Side dumps are alot better. So is setting the tanks up in a straight line. I know there are more. They really need to fact check thier videos
Absolutely love this tutorial. I'm currently working on joining as a volunteer fireman and videos like this are definitely a huge help.
Impressively succinct and informal. Also don't think I've ever seen discharge levers move so butter smooth.
Great video and a good refresher! On the recirculation line, I usually throw a nozzle on the end, open, and drop it in the tank. Adds a little extra weight to the end of the line to keep it in the tank.
Great simple explanation. Really like your engine layout as well. Beats standing in the road and you can see what's going on regardless of which way the truck's parked.
Awesome explanation!!! Learned a bunch.
Love it yessss.... great break down
We use foot valve strainers. Open the tank to pump, it “back fills” the suction hose(s) with tank water so there is no air to expel upon drafting. You can pull draft immediately because the entire pump and suction hose(s) are already full of water.
Also, a blow up beach ball works well at stopping the venturi “tornado”. The ball takes up no room, only needs a few breaths to inflate it enough, and good it in the tank.
We’ve also just dropped in used scba cylinder in. They’ll just float around also and break up that tornado.
I don't trust the diamond pattern unless you are in a parking lot.. Most rural FD set these up on the road. If its set as a diamond, you make you "tender" have to line up to a diamond point. If its done correctly, the tender driver has the whole length of the tank to dump the load.
Thanks. Great information and explanation!
Great video. Help with my qualifications.
Great video 👍👍 thank you 🙏
Great video! Great channel!
Great explanation
Great video, great music choice
i have never seen the 2.5 re circ line, but makes sense now, thanks for the video
Very informative video with the exception of the 4" suction miscue (you're forgiven). I've never seen a recirc line used on the fire ground. I've also never seen a pump in good condition lose prime if water flow is halted.
Love the video and thank you for the training time. Last time I drafted was in the academy. We barely do draft, but i feel its important to know. One silly question though, our rig that I mainly work on doesn't have an RPM mode it's either pressure or volume. Most of the time, we pump in volume. It's a waterous pump on an 01 Seagrave. Would appreciate some tips or tricks brothers
If you have a pressure/volume switch that means you have a two-stage pump. A two stage pump has two impellers. The pressure/volume switch operates a transfer valve. In pressure the valve will allow the impellers to work in "series" meaning your intake water enters the first impeller, increases in speed/pressure, then enters the second impeller which increases the water speed/pressure higher prior to discharge. This allows your pump to provide higher pressures at lower engine RPMs. Pressure mode is usually only effective up to (I think) about 500 GPMs discharge. Then the water will become too turbulent so you would want to switch to volume mode (warn crews and throttle down first) for higher GPM discharge. In volume (parallel) mode the transfer valve will divert half the intake water into one impeller and the other half into the second impeller. Each impeller will add pressure to the water before it joins back together for discharge. This is used to reduce friction loss in the pump when you are supplying larger GPMs (>500).
Since you don't have an RPM mode that means your pump does not use an electronic pressure governor. Your pump probably has a hand turn throttle and a "manual" pressure relief valve. So you adjust the throttle (increase or decrease) to achieve your desired discharge pressure and then set your pressure relief valve slightly above the highest psi you are discharging. That protects other discharge lines or the pump from excess water hammer back pressure.
A pressure governor would achieve that back pressure protection in "PSI" mode by sensing the back pressure and electronically adjusting the engine RPM to maintain the discharge pressures you have set. A pressure governor in "RPM" mode does not regulate or adjust the engine RPM is simply leaves it where you set it.
@@ajames7505 nerd
Shoutout to anybody at a working fire watching this cuz they've never operated a pump but they're the only one who showed up besides the attack team. Skip to 9:25
you can hold the air primer indefinitely. mechanical primer has a 45 second limit.
You said tank fill at the end. You meant to say tank to pump to prime the pump
this is absolutely the Job for me
I know I'm a year late, but when first explaining how to draft without the primer you said over and over to pull the tank to pump. Then after you got the draft you said if the prime doesn't work pull the take fill. Which is right?
Tank to pump.
How would you handle having no water in your tank and your primer inop, as you discussed with the second method of drafting?
You would need to get water into your tank from another source or a water supply from another source. Another unit with water could start a water supply to you and as you received it you could use it the same if your tank had water to purge the air form the Hard Sleeve. Of course they would be filling the reservoir as well if you were using that if using a static water supply such as river stream lake pool or cistern that would be unnecessary.
After setting the governor to RPM mode, what is the recommended option?
1) Is it better to increase the pump RPM to range(800-1250) before priming? I guess, this will be bad for pump? (or)
2) Is it better to prime and then increase the pump RPM to desired requirement?
Shyju catch the draft before increasing the RPM’s. Having high RPM’s without water in the pump will burn it up, as would not moving water out that’s in the pump. Water in the pump just moving around and not going out a discharge creates heat and the higher RPM’s create more heat faster which will destroy the pump, it can actually get hot enough to turn the water into steam creating pressure as well. Additionally it can cause water hammer “if” you catch the draft at high RPM’s, especially with older pumps that don’t automatically compensate for water hammer. Having the discharge open that leads to the nozzle where firefighters will be waiting for water will also get hammered with the nozzle pressure all at once if the RPM’s are high versus a gradual increase, however, slowly opening the discharge will compensate for that. This could lead to losing control of the nozzle or the ground monitor which is very dangerous.
Regen sounds dangerous
Why do you stay in RPM mode for drafting? Drafting doesn't happen much here so we're usually in pressure mode.
Hello Frank, thanks for viewing. We use pressure mode for normal pumping, but we do not use pressure mode for drafting as it is prone to fluctuations which can cause you to lose your draft. RPM mode ensures that we are pulling water from the draft at a consistent rate that does not fluctuate.
Frank, RPM mode holds the engine at whichever RPM you set it at. Pressure mode holds the engine at the pressure you set. When air hits the pump as you are establishing your draft - the engine will go back to idle if you're in psi mode. You can (And should) go back to PSI mode after you've established your draft.
😊😊
Can’t you un crack the discharge if you are useing the deck gun
You could. You'd just have to remember to crack it again before you shut off the deck gun
Why RPM mode?
Hmmm... Is it necessary to provide music in the video?
Stealers Wheel: Stuck in the Middle with You? Pretty sums up fire/EMS worldview...
Somebody Please explain to him that that is a 6" Suction Line not a 4 " !!!!
This department must never draft. Multiple inaccuracies.
Levi M: Every company has variables in policy/operations. Companies at this locale are urban/suburban. Rarely need to draft, having dry hydrants available. This just happens to be Aurora FD's SOP, geared towards training their own crews.
Clarify, please.
@@ltmundy1164 Last night I learned you don’t need the pump to draft.
@@davidb9323: Context. Drafting is dependent on location/resources/circumstances. Commonly used by rural/exurban companies that lack hydrant infrastructure. Pumper/tankers normally get this assignment, but engines may/can/do perform the job relaying water from source to fire site.
@@ltmundy1164 I mean, you don’t need the impeller spinning to pull a draft. Which in the video was an inaccuracy - they had it on.
You guys could use some new uniforms
I was thinking thinking the same thing. I'm not sure if those are Nomex. We are not allowed to wear our standard station uniforms without our badges, training or not. Each department is different with different policies. Greetings from Los Angeles 🚒🇺🇲
Someday you will have a great mustache. Rpm should only be used if running to a monitor or deck gun. Also it's a porta tank not a porter tank.
Wrong.. anytime drafting operations are in play you’re in RPM mode
@@jacobbarnet6415RPM at 1000 right?
How many inaccurate statements can we find? He continuously refers the hard suctions as being 4", yet its a 1500 gpm pumper.... those are 6" dude!!!
States you can put "up to two" hard suctions together for longer reach......... um, you can use more than 2 skippy.
Diamond setup is outdated. He talks about backing into the porta tanks, you only back in when you dont have side dumps. Side dumps are alot better. So is setting the tanks up in a straight line.
I know there are more. They really need to fact check thier videos
WAY TO MUCH TALKING, keep it simple.