Adolph Reed Jr. on race reductionism and liberational politics
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 ก.ย. 2024
- “There is no doubt that racism is real and has negative consequences for people’s lives,” Adolph Reed Jr. and Touré F. Reed note in the abstract to their article “The Evolution of ‘Race’ and Racial Justice under Neoliberalism.” “This is why we have consistently argued for the continued value of anti-discrimination policies. But race reductionism’s insistence on uncoupling disparities from political economy lends itself to individualist reforms (anti-racism training and swelling the ranks of black capitalists) as responses to structural ailments. We must reject race-reductionist analyses and refuse to accommodate charges that a left focused first and foremost on critique of and challenge to capitalist political economy as such, with its corrosive human consequences, is unacceptably ‘class reductionist.’”
What is race reductionism and how does it close off possibilities for liberational politics? How is it that we’ve come to have such a restrictive understanding of race, culture, identity, and “authenticity” today? How have the political, economic, and ideological changes to society that comprise what we call neoliberalism created a situation where discussions of race and racism are divorced from analyses of class and “capitalist political economy”?
As part of a new collaboration between The Real News Network and the podcast THIS IS REVOLUTION, co-hosts Jason Myles and Pascal Robert speak with scholar and activist Adolph Reed Jr. about the genealogy of American conceptions of race and racism, and about the folly of fighting neoliberalism on neoliberalism’s own terms. Adolph Reed Jr. is Professor Emeritus of Political Science at the University of Pennsylvania, a longtime activist, scholar, and commentator, and the author of numerous books, including: Class Notes: Posing as Politics and Other Thoughts on the American Scene; Stirrings in the Jug: Black Politics in the Post-Segregation Era; and The Jesse Jackson Phenomenon: The Crisis of Purpose in Afro-American Politics.
Pre-Production/Studio: Jason Myles
Post Production: Cameron Granadino
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Adoph Reed and son Toure have helped me understand what's going on with the broad left today and in particularly distinguishing between race and class based approaches. I wonder what Adoph and Toure say about Reverend Barber of the Poor People's campaign. He's one of the few leaders on the left who consistently emphasizes that we'll only get progressive change in this country through a mass multi-racial movement, black, white, brown, Asian and native American.. Is there any way to direct questions to either of them?
Not sure if that question was ever answered but I think they both have professional email/mailing addresses at their respective universities. I can't imagine either of them really having beef with Barber, he tends to court a more liberal crowd but I think he's a force for good in the world.
I've been following this network for some time. Great content. This is wonderful step up to an already excellent forum. Thank You.
My thoughts exactly.
On the question of what is Black culture, I'm reminded of the nationalist culture-building projects that took place in Europe in the late 19th century, with writers and musicians going out and collecting folktales and folk music with the purpose of finding and defining a national culture which was in turn used to otherise those who didn't identify with that "culture" and justify creating national boundaries and fighting wars over them. The temptation to valorise a heritage, even if its completely arbitrary and manufactured, tends towards "the narcissism of tiny dfferences" and segregations, voluntary and involuntary, to protect said "culture". Plus authenticity resides outside of commodities, and is therefore unobtainable on a mass scale under capitalism.
Not to mention that there's no singular afro-American culture there are several clearly distinct afro-American cultures in the US; East coast, west coast, midwest, the south, they all have their dielects & traditional food & style of music.
Identity is always an imposition from the top, literally the state. We are subjects, not objects. As A Reed says, u cant get rid of racism without getting rid of the concept of race.
@@danyalghaznavi6818 Yep.
Reading the black bourgeoisie by E. Franklin Frazier cuz it helped understand Black American class consciousness & it’s importance. And how black businesses & black capitalism is not the come up many think. Dope video with much needed critical info.
Brilliant discussion and very relevant to many of us here in Ireland, dealing with many forms of domestic colonialism.
that nugget on Habermas...and followed up by Dr Reed's observation of dude on campus, the brilliance we've come to expect! I can leave 2021 fully satisfied now
Love TIR and glad to see it spread (check out their channel too, they also have audio only podcasts on apple etc.). I haven’t seen the real news much since the great Paul jay left, glad to check it out again
Interesting discussion. The Washington / Marcus Garvey vs the Dubois schools of thought still wage a war in Diaspora Black politics. Both men had great ideals / aspirations but ultimately I think duBois was the better one. After reading "Up from Slavery" and other books on Black Conservative Thought, Washington was a Leader chosen for us by the Dominant White culture. Booker T. was an accomodationist, a Black conservative who failed to understand that without strong Black politics in DC, all of your do-for-self enterprise and struggle will be a Failure !
White Government can easily decimate all Black economy and capitalist aspiration with a stroke of a pen / marginalization / exclusionary laws and policy ! yes, W.E.B had his Bourgeois classist faults in the beginning but lived long enough to see and correct the Errors of his elitist / Talented 10th ideology.
Black people need to recognize that Black Wall Street and many such ambitious communities were willfully destroyed and we had No political Recourse and still working restitution 100 yrs later ! If we do not have good politics, there is no Black business - economy ! Black business will remain a Side Hustle !
Black Cultural Production does not Intervene on Politics. Rather our Black culture is commodified and easily appropriated by Whites and other ethnic groups. We are often Patronized for practicing this same culture...ie Kamala Harris pulling out her Hot Sauce and claiming she is a weed smoker to show how "Black" she is...I dont know where hot sauce came from and I dont care, and I loathe that cannabis and getting high has come to DEFINE us as a group / Blackness.
@@j.w.2391 Its bizarre to me to see people who list a litany of government sponsored racism then pivot to “so we should just ignore government and policy and build black economy ourselves”. You put it well.
I’m curious what you think: It seems to me as an outsider like the tradition of highly valuing racial solidarity/unity is at this point hurting all black people except the professional class and rich, since black elites run black politics but don’t share the same interests as the black poor or working class. Yet I don’t know that there’s a single more deeply and universally shared piece of black culture than the urge for racial solidarity/unity. Therefore it seems to me like a break is required, pascal says internal class warfare among black classes, but I wonder if there’s a need for an intermediate step in which there’s an effort to draw new lines of black cultural belonging, like embracing regional differences as more meaningful than a singular mass national black culture.
Do you agree racial solidarity is at this point harming the interests of the supermajority of black people that are poor and working class? Do you think that internal class warfare is possible or that an attempt to define black cultures as specific and varied is possible?
Great discussion, educational and entertaining too. But what's that about Glenn Greenwald and the police?
I thought that was a weird thing for Adolf to say. He said GG might as well be writing for the police, right? I'd definitely like to hear him elaborate on that. My only guess would be it has something to do with 1/6 - it seems like they approach that from very different angles. It has to be some kind of misunderstanding; I can't think of a time GG sided with the police about anything, but I have the utmost respect for both of them.
I can see why Adolph gets into hot water from time to time, but he's great!
Great interview, as always, comrades! Side note, I just noticed that JM's laugh is very Vincent Price-esque. I challenge you to not listen to it and not think you're watching the end of the Thriller video.
Brilliant interview, thank you.
Glenn Greenwald unpaid agent of police? Sorry, I'm just not fucking hip enough to get the reference.
Yeah, I don't know to which pro-police content he's referring.
I didn’t get that either
A "monolithic Black politics" should obviously be seen as a misnomer, because there is no governance structure that regulates Black people's behavior, nor one that can be used to reach a consensus on anything. Reed implies "race" is not a thing, and therefore is not important, but how many Black people don't see Blackness as a real thing? It is real largely, if not totally, in the sense that it is the antithesis of Whiteness. As much as many Black intellectuals like to be critical of Black people who do what they call "practicing respectability politics" and seeing ourselves and things through the "White gaze", or White people's eyes", they too can't escape the reality that their self identity, is largely externally formed, and not internally created or affirmed.
So, Reed is being technical, when he says race doesn't exist. That is like saying ethnicity doesn't exist, or is invalid, as some White Conservatives expressed, when the issue of Black-Americans calling themselves African-Americans came about. They tried to say hyphenated Americans was invalid, and that we are all Americans. These same people no doubt, have no problem going to eat at an Italian or Chinese- American restaurant.
"Race relations" is what Mr. Neeley Fuller Jr. and the late Dr. Francis Cress Welsing addressed in their work. It focuses on the dynamic of power, or more specifically the power Whites have over Black people. That is the fundamental nature of the relationship. Something has to fill the void left by the fractured dysfunctional nature of Black people, as a group. Intellectuals occupy this space by default. They largely have no substantive association with the masses of Black people. Black politicians have an association, but even that is limited, in that so many Black people, like all Americans, don't involve themselves much in politics. Another default group is the activist, who like to think our themselves as being a part of "the people", but their level of involvement separates them from "the people", who again are largely uninvolved in politics, or even many other social matters. This is the default handicap that the Left, especially the radical/progressive or socialist Left has, but show little appreciation for.
Good points, but the “gaze” you speak of can be looked at reflexively to expose the bs of racial constructs. Or whatever, trying not to sound like a sociology 101 warrior.
it seems Land Acknowledgements have come and gone in the Northern part of Turtle Island in Canada but we are hearing about them in the Southern part in the USA. Sometimes these are well done but many times they can be painful reminders of an unchanging situation, and ongoing material conditions and administration of/relations between Indigenous and non-Indigenous populations whereby Canada is reified as the juridiction that holds to power to recognise land and nations and status, not vice versa and certainly not mutual recognition... I say this having written one acknowledgement very carefully with my Elder Métis Auntie and three more relations and friends... I now am distrustful almost when I hear acknowledgements. They would need to be exceptional and probably communicated by the nation or community and identify concrete realities to be persuasive... Probably people are just trying their best though in engaging this. Many seem usure of what to do.
yeah like kicking in the ass...
recognising Irish Americans... never. not fashionable. my own father is from Ireland and the discourse on this continent is very different than in Ireland... I only became engaged in learning about Ireland after my Métis Indigenous Elder Auntie reminded me to consider all Ancestors and the relationship to colonisation... and relationality of all people today with respective histories and material conditions today... and especially vis-à-vis those who own land and means of production and exploitation of just about everyone across cultures or cultural affinities...
great point 52;23 on rification
Very interesting, I think that his point about culture is the traditional leftist position which is basically the exact opposite of the contemporary “woke” position on culture.
Does Adolf have a critique ... or any thoughts ... on the Black consciousness movement or Steve Biko's thoughts, brief and locked in early development as they were.
Does anyone know where I can get that article they mention at the beginning? I hope it’s not some pay yo read bs.
Wow great conversation, I’d love to get more info on the various different takes on black American movements their goals/perspectives and what different people see as their as the strengths and weaknesses of those perspectives. Just to not lead any up the garden path I’m an interested Irish man not an American
No easy answer. The American black ‘movements’ are myriad and range from communist, anarchists, socialist etc all the way to full blown capitalist neoliberals who’s main criticism of the current order of things is to have greater proportional black/minority representation among the elites and that poor minorities should be satisfied with the pride having black people in high places can give them.
DISCRIMINATORY LAWS ART OF WAR
Ask her for her federal reservation card or blood quantum report because that’s how the bureau of affairs does it. I think the elders encouraged the white emcees do land acknowledging to show the working class how the upper class uses disinformation such as relocation instead of invasion and reorganization instead of occupation. The question of reservation gun factories is ootq closer to home airports or right on the money class action for genocide land, it’s what america fears most and the reason there is a Marshal decision in Johnson versus Macintosh 1823. (King Henry’s white land owning males entitled by discovery coincidentally 4 years after Columbus). I like to blame all racism in america on this.
Glenn Greenwald "produces stuff for the police?" What does that mean?
"Glenn Greenwald" happens to produce for the police - ? I write this with no punch delivery or conceit or sarcasm I just have a genuine question as to what he is saying. I know I need to couple it with the few sentences before that and it seems like he's saying the dark forces don't even need to employ cultural-political saboteurs, they come about organically, but is tying Glenn to this a joke inside of a joke? I don't understand how Glenn has ever been a race-reductionist or class unaware, can someone please tell me if I need to know how he has been, or if I'm just really not parsing any of this correctly? I really don't understand what Reed is saying in that line, can anyone help me?
same Q.
Is Pascal intently reading the chat or does he just look furious all the time? 😂
should've been the analysis news :/
Continuously babbling about “white and black” people, in my mind is just continuously cosigning European race theory
Who are African Americans, Who are Asian Americans what Who are European Americans?
Stop trynna sound smart
Supply creates demand, you see?
Algorithm lol
Pascal not saying peace and greetings to the chat had me cracking me up 😂
"Black Politics" is racist.
"White Politics" is racist.
Anything done, based on color, is racist.
I thought the name Adolph was banned in the U.S.
Why? 😬
@@AwesomeBlackDude it’s banned in other countries and I thought the U.S. did also. Is Adolph Reed black. If so, why would the parents name him after a man that hated black.
@@AwesomeBlackDude I shouldn’t have had to answer that question.
@@theinformationcenter1248 Who told you Adolph Hitler hated Blacks?
@@unocryptoblackart716
Now, u know that u need to stop it with that bs. It is too late in the hour to be acting the fool. Too many ppl having ur kind of mindset is one of the reasons that this world is on the trajectory that it is. Lets see how much sht u r talking in 5 yrs. I hope that nobody takes ur bait.
that's cool and all, but now i want you to replace the word "black" with the word "white" every time you hear it, and tell me what you think of it.
Huh? Can you elaborate on what exactly that exercise is supposed to reveal, and/or prove, and/or how it’s supposed to recontextualize or problematize what Reed is saying? I’m sitting here doing this thing you’ve suggested, and I’m not exactly understanding what you think one should get from it?
In fact, I almost think it makes the point even stronger, or at the least it helps one further understand the extent of ideology and social construction that’s inherently present in the notion of race, culture, racial culture, and so on. I might be missing your point entirely, though, so please elaborate if you don’t mind. ✌️
@@nikolademitri731 in order to elaborate further, i'm going to need you to first take what mister Reed said, replace black with white, and put it in writing as a reply to this comment. We can break it down further after you post the transcript in writing... that is... if youtube even allows it... thanks.
@@chiritaalex In other words, You Can't elaborate further.
@@nikolademitri731 I think that was just the cognitive dissonance talking. Asking him to elaborate is probably asking too much. Most are reactions. Not coherent responses. They aren't hearing what's being said. Because they aren't listening for understanding. They're listening for self-validation.
Thought too often can become consumed by language, and comes to mean any range of self serving options.
I asked Chat GPT(the machine) this question:
“What does culture mean amongst humans >
?”
The reply was:
“Culture refers to the beliefs, customs, habits, traditions, language, lifestyle, and expressions of a particular group of people. It is the patterns of behavior and thinking that people living in the same social, racial, ethnic, or geographic group share. Culture influences how people dress, talk, act, and solve problems, as well as how they interact with each other and the environment.”
Keywords here are, “a particular group of people.”
I'm all for Any American that wants to move us back toward the Constitution. I consider Black Americans my brothers and sisters.
this isnt for you. go play with Grim.
@@tmsphere 👈talking nonsense. Free speech though. Keep up the nonsense. It's appreciated.
Honestly, what does “back towards the constitution” even mean at this point in our history? Which version of the constitution? The thing has been changed/amended a few times since it was written, so you could say, “X time is when the constitution was most legitimate and correct, and I could say Y time is actually when it was best”, and we’d both technically be correct.
Also, if you’re an “originalist”, it’s important to understand that any talk of “original intent”, as far as the founding fathers and/or framers/writers of the constitution is concerned, is far more problematic than people often make it out to be, especially when one considers one of the intentions was to make the constitution amendable, bc many of those FF understood quite clearly that what they intended for that time and place would categorically not be best for future times, when social and economic changes would necessitate changes in the law of the land, including the constitution framework those laws would exist within. They were correct, but unfortunately they were a bit too naive in thinking that the governing body wouldn’t splinter so terribly that it would be near impossible for necessary changes to be made at necessary times. Ultimately, that’s a massive part (along with the OG constitution, in general) of what lead to the Civil War, and it’s a massive part of what has us in such a mess in America right now, contributing to constant deadlocks in Congress, and courts being used as partisan weapons (another thing the FF foolishly thought could remain neutral).
This is a big part of what prevents very necessary legislation to fix so many material problems in this country, so those problems worsen, and in turn the divisions deepen, and contribute to discourse of the next civil war (often very understandably), while stoking the fire of our “cultural civil war”. I’m not saying these problems would all be gone, or instantly solvable, if we didn’t have the constitution in the way, but I’m most definitely saying that it IS in the way of passing legislation that could solve a lot of our current problems.
That’s not even getting into the omnipresent disconnect between “de jure” and “de facto”, or between written law and its intent, and what is actually taking place in society, despite (or in spite) said laws and intentions. I say “omnipresent”, because this disconnect has existed from the beginning, and even in blatant ways (eg, the first alien and sedition acts, not even a decade after the first amendment is put in place to protect against such authoritarian rule). Even when the FF were still alive, and actively participating in congress, the executive branch, etc, they did things that went against what we now call the supposed, “original intent”, and this has continued up to today.
IOW, there is really no, “getting back to the constitution”, at least not in any objective sense, particularly if one is attempting to point to a specific time and place when it was being followed to a tee, and/or where de jure and de facto aligned perfectly balanced in some sort of Yin and Yang. (To be fair, there can be no perfect balance of de jure and de facto, because there is no perfect law or society, but that’s no defense of the notion of “getting back to the constitution”, because you can’t “get back to” what never was, and you still will always have the problem of interpretation.)
Anyway, I’ve gone on way too long, to the point I won’t be shocked if you never read or respond to it. I guess I went off like this because I used to say the same thing about, “we need to get back to the constitution”, but the more I studied American history, the more I realized I had a grossly idealized version of history in my head (not my fault, that’s what we are often taught), and that it’s nothing more than a fairy tale, and more importantly: that it’s a fairy tale intentionally and actively propagated to lead people away from politics that might actually solve many of the socioeconomic and sociocultural problems we are facing *today,* because those fixes are not in the interest of the wealthy ruling class of the country. I’ll leave it there. ✌️
@@nikolademitri731 🤔 what? When you wrote all that did you actually think I was going to read it all? You could've stopped writing after "what do you mean back toward the constitution". Quite simply put, the Bill of Rights being honored and respected by Our Public Servants. If you want me to read that comment break it up into multiple comments. One paragraph per comment. Geez.🤦🏻♂️ FN college professor over here.
@@nikolademitri731 👈Polish? 🤔
The left is Authority
The right is Anarchy
Follow the Constitution.
The opposite of order is not chaos.
The opposite of order is disorder.
The opposite of chaos is Peace.
I hope to hear to hear talk about overturning Terry v Ohio.
the constitution written by slave owners? lol okay buddy
@@marcuscornelius3521 yeah, pal, the Constitution. More importantly, the Bill of Rights. Slavery was a global practice. Your argument holds no weight. Vague as it was.
@@oneofthepeople7293 right cuz no one realized slavery was bad as it was happening! bill of rights for me (white dude w property) but not for thee (literally anyone else)
@@marcuscornelius3521 👈brainwashed to be a victim. The Supreme Court has done way more to effect Black People negatively than the founders of America ever did. You're argument loses even more steam when you begin to realize how many Black People in America DO own property. (Clears throat) including my neighbors.
@@marcuscornelius3521 is it B.S. you're looking for or equality? Would you like to talk about how the Supreme Court perverted our Bill of Rights? Nah, I'm not thinking you do.
Dunno why you think I'd care about what he has to say after he spent years adoring Aimee Terese. Kinda funny tho that you all would have him on after the GreyZone left. If you wanted to ask some Third Positionist what they think, just ask your old pals.
Years adoring her? Because he was a guest on Dead Pundits? You're being ridiculous.
Reed also appeared on What’s Left. He knew what he was doing, same as he did when he defended Angela Nagle publishing in American Affairs.
@@GrimLocke161 You have the history of this all wrong. When Reed publicly attacked Julis Krein, editor of American Affairs, as "some kind of Nazi" and said Nagle "got got" by the right (see his interview with Katie Halper in September 2020), Terese threw a hissy fit. Reed hasn't talked to Terese since. He has always expressed nothing but contempt for American Affairs and never defended Nagle. But why let facts get in the way of your bullshit narrative?
Oh, I’m sorry, he only learned last year that she was “got?” She was Fash from the beginning. But, again, why let facts get in the way of your argument. 😉
@@GrimLocke161You made a blatantly false claim about him, Nagle, and American Affairs and I corrected you. Bullshit is bullshit. You are clearly a liar and a fool.