Based is a slang term that originally meant to be addicted to crack cocaine (or acting like you were), but was reclaimed by rapper Lil B for being yourself and not caring what others think of you-to carry yourself with swagger. A word used when you agree with something; or when you want to recognize someone for being themselves, i.e. courageous and unique or not caring what others think.
“We say you don’t fight capitalism with no black capitalism; you fight capitalism with socialism” - Fred Hampton. That’s what this kinda reminded me of
@@allenguillory6337 you cant start a revolution with a colonized mind. A people will never revolt against a people whose values they share. Amos Wilson. Most Black people have been taught to accept capitalistic VALUES. Materialism, Individualism, Conspicuous Consumption, etc. There will always be a judas. A judas will not stop a movement. I love the discussion but these ivory tower philosophers dont like to get their hands dirty. There are a lot of self-serving people out here too, especially in media. It also takes a special courage to confront a system. Fred, Martin, Malcolm, Medgar had the courage of their convictions. When the system pushes back, as it inevitably will, do you have the courage to go on?
@@kemwershabbaka4351 going to war against capitalism looks like a losing battle considering most countries in the world have adopted capitalism and there is nothing inherently immoral about capitalism anyway
@@robinsss looks like we're the ones losing to me. 700,000 dead in this country and millions around the world in large part due to capitalism and you say there is nothing immoral about that? When you have a great economic power (allegedly) that cant even gear up to produce the essential protective equipment to protect its people what do you call it? When companies wont test, develop, or repurpose theraputics to mitigate the effects of a deadly virus because there's no money in it what do you call it? When drug companies get a windfall of PUBLIC money yet do not see the morality in releasing the patents on drug formulas so the world could get vaccinated reducing the chance of variants and save millions of lives WHAT DO YOU CALL IT? Please give me your definition of inherently immoral.
@@kemwershabbaka4351 ''''''''''''''looks like we're the ones losing to me. 700,000 dead in this country and millions around the world in large part due to capitalism''''''' how is capitalism to blame for those deaths ? covid?
My people! I thought I was the only one that had this figured out. I've tried to bring this up to moderates and they just can't wrap their minds around it.
@@JeffCaplan313 depends on what its supposed purpose is, id say If it is set up structurally so that what it does contradicts what it is supposed to do, you've got a problem.
The argument of class and race being completely conflated is easily disproven by removing race. In areas of the US where there is a small or minimal Black population, you find all of the stories that are typically ascribed to and by them happening within the poor white population. In fact, a lot of the notions of job channeling and poor options in work and housing are all Appalachian white stories. Likewise, in Africa, you have all of the same stories that are simply based on different types of bigoted classifications rather than race- whether it's gender, religion, tribe xcetera. So what we can see in both situations is that the operating variable, regardless of any other, is class. This is obviously true because capitalism requires, not just results in but requires, a layer of exploitation to generate surplus. I think the reason why you see it in the States, this argument, so often is largely due to social segregation. I live in Detroit, which is anomaly for several reasons, but certainly there are many Black people who have grown up with virtually no relationships with white people, and no contact with them except through media depictions or perhaps hinterland encounters. Therefore, they really have no idea what that life is like, and vice versa. If you had poor whites and poor Blacks living side-by-side, it would be very clear to everyone how fundamentally similar their lives are.
Intersectionality is real we seamlessly navigate the spaces in between the classes yes i agree the true intent of race and racism was to seperate elite whites and poor white or better working class white vs owner class whites. When blackness was invented it was a great way to turn a class stratification into a caste system. This is why some think supporting multi racial coalitions will end in one group getting something while the other parts of the coalition get nothing via the new deal, voting rights for men only, etc.. Its simple blacks know that any coalition that is not willing on its face to public stand for black issues with clear rhetoric that may be unpopular and can create backlash is not a person or a coalition who is going to fight for the benefit of the whole coalition. I hear dr Reed always talk of how much sense it makes to form a coalition, but if you can't not trust those you are coalescing with because they are fundamentally okay with caste stratification through personal which perpetuate systemic caste outcomes, and who have a history of betrayal...how many times does the frog take the scorpion knowing that the scorpion unapologetic for the last tome it stung the frog.
Interesting a history of betrayal..if that is the case whay in this case in the light of that premise do you suggest is the most sensible or smartest way going forward in terms of action direction
@@chrisbennett6260 Great question I would say if you want to build the trust support legislation like the voting rights bill, support legislation like HR40 to study reparations, support police accountability reform, stand with us on issues of justice, education, infrastructure and business contracts. Then for class solidarity we need to fight for real changes, like establishing a strike fund insurance paid by employers that works like unemployment and pays out when workers decide to strike. We need to reminagine this economy and with so much deferred maintained we have a generations worth of meaningful socetial building work that we can accomplish together.
Frequently, the credo sounded like this: “Why should we focus on this sin [of racism] or that sin [of sexism], when both problems will essentially be solved once we overcome sin itself?”
Sub-Saharan Africa, has been produced and reproduced to be the poorest region on Earth with the lowest life expectancy. Haiti, the site of Black rebellion has been produced and reproduced to be the poorest country in the Western Hemisphere. In America, Black Americans that descend from chattel slavery has been produced and reproduced to be the poorest group in the United States with the lowest life expectancy. Somehow this is all coincidental and we should mainly focus on class. Also they always critique/argue against the most neoliberal corporate approved version of Anti-Racism, but thats Jacobin for ya.
I like the question adolph puts forth withnstuff like reperations, "how do you figure out who is black". might as well get out the calipers and start measuring skulls again lol.
One question that always lingers in my mind... the "living wage". I see it defined in vague terms, and I think if it was defined better, there would be less arguments about the abstract "living wage". Maybe a formula that takes into account location, relative cost of living, etc. so that everyone can say, "yes, this is a living wage" or not about a particular situation.
Somebody working as a cashier at a McDonald's in Denmark makes $45,000 a year, has 5 weeks paid vacation, paid parental leave, in practice unlimited paid sick days. and, of course, a pension plan. Living wage wasn't a thing for American auto workers because of unions. There's talk about imposing minimum wage in the EU. Scandinavian unions are fighting this tooth and nail. They fear a minimum wage will result in lower wages.
In order to live, one needs to be healthy and wages aside, we do not live in a healthy culture. I wonder how happy and healthy that McDonald's worker is...I bet a lot of it depends on their diet decisions and the Healthcare that is accessible and affordable for them to access for help.
Race and class have been entangled from the beginning of time like the caste system in India, the darker skinned belonged to the "earthier" and therefore closer to animals and of an inferior order. The elevated and elite orders were closer to the divine and enlightened and also had lighter color skin, Aryans. Who were Caucasian. Or Indo Europeans. Interesting parallel is that the tower of Babylon was a ziggurat or step pyramid which not only represented the cosmic house and order but also the class stratifications of the social structure. Hence at the top is the demi god hero of the high king who is also high priest the mediator between the heavenly rulers and gods and human beings.
Adolph Reede: Well, Wally, ol' friend, you need to come to do this Jacobin with me. I really need to make a fool of you on the DL I mean, I really can't have you out there calling yourself a class reductionist, knowwhatimdayin?
10:22 I had cultural resources at a much higher degree than class resources (I grew up rural poor) and they saved my life and now I’m going to be a lawyer… what say you to this ?
You were fortunate/lucky to have acess to something which benefited you and which allowed you to to continue the work to get where you are. Doesn't mean it works for everyone who has the same acess so said resources and is a universal/objective solution to poverty. This is literally what conservates say about placement tests which resulted in simmilar outcome. Good for you. Glad you got to where you are. But these things are not the best universal solution to solve poverty.
@@neilmuir3503 not what i was saying... im pointing out how reductive adolph is being by focusing on just class, by me pointing out just cultural resources.. yall do know that their are academic pratices that try and analyze social structures through both right? thats what i hate about intellectuals like this guy, theyre super fundamentalists in terms of their own area of expertise.. either that or they cant see anything past what theyve been taught, and so they stick to what they think is right and disregard the rest.
@@breadandwater7038 dude thats not an argument against what they are saying. you are just said you dont like them, you didnt address any of the content.
this convo was so helpful! I was wondering if you could have someone on to talk specifically about K-12 education from a socialist perspective? A lot of this anti-black racism and CRT rhetoric is so prevalent in my urban education program.
Isn’t it amazing that the “both and” discussion of racism vs capitalism accepts that given capitalism we should solve racism. Whereas none of these “both and” folks do the reverse - given racism we should solve capitalism - because they tacitly accept capitalism as if it weren’t worse than racism, which it is. At my job, I have no free speech (if I criticize my boss, I get fired and my wife and kid starve) and every day I literally sit at a separate lunch counter (staff have a separate, dilapidated cafeteria that is greatly inferior to the bosses’ facilities- private offices and beautiful conference rooms). And none of these “anti-racists” acknowledge my oppression. To the contrary, my company hired a female, black “diversity counselor” (who earns much more than me) and she will rubber stamp preventing the all female secretarial staff and the all black mailroom from unionizing. Which makes their “anti-racist” and “anti-sexist” horseshit a con on two accounts; they don’t give a shit about capitalist oppression or racism and sexism.
As far as the job competency is concerned, whoever is most competent must get the job, regardless of race, background, and religion. It doesn't happen. Nepotism and preference gets in the way. South Africa is practising priority enpolyment system where the reverse apartheid is introduced. No wonder the country is going downhill. The Black Africans do need more education and vocational training. So do many White and Asian races, too. The government should look into offering free education. The university fees are too expensive to repay. That system is heavily influenced by Capitalism. The rich class may not find the burden so much as the unprivileged. The rich students may finance one extra unprivileged tuition.
Fair question. I would contend that racism loses it's power when economic and social factors are equalized. If you get rid of capitalism you get rid of the power racists can have. To put it another way, if someone hates you for your heritage/culture/DNA (a racist), but doesn't have economic or social power over you... what does it matter if they are racist?
@@LongDefiant You can still have KKK group terrorising and murdering Black families. Like you can still have rape and violence against women. These problems predate capitalism, and getting rid of a class structure will help, but it won't make them disappear.
@@Lily-ni5po how can a person rape or murder another person (and get away with it) if they don't have some form of power over them? If they do those things and then have to run for their lives, or they are locked up or killed in revenge, that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about rape and murder with impunity.
@@LongDefiant the rape will still have happened. You can punish the rapist, the victim will still lived through the assault. All a perpetrator needs is more physical strength or to get their victim in a weak state. Adults can also take advantage of their power over children. Can we create a society where men and white people in general do not feel entitled to others' body? Probably, but that goes beyond class structure. Class structures help maintain this entitlement and help subjugating victims, but this kind of violence is perpetrated outside these structures. These structures did not invent this violence.
@@Lily-ni5po I don't think most marxists or leftists think that by getting rid of capitalism that you will magically get rid of violence or rape or murder. These are human phenomenon that in and of themselves will always happen and as such don't really have solutions beyond current forms of prevention or even retrospetive solutions. But you see this is my problem with the rebuttle towards economic change and the change in social relations, they are presented in a way that makes it look like they can't be changed and therefore there is no point trying. Its almost like saying the sun will rise well yeah no shit it will but we can't do anything about that. Violence is not in that sense a political issue in the sense that you can come up with some solution that will ontologically fix it, it will have to be a case by case issue. And I'm sorry but this entitlement you describe of white people enacting upon other's bodies seems a bit poetic in the way it is described. White superiority, in the sense of there is some identity that is called white that is thought of as better then other identities is a relatively new thing. Look at anciet rome, you had people of all colors and creeds be considered citizens and slaves, the concept of whiteness as we understand it wasn't a thing. If there was prejudice it was a result of people, irrespective of their "race" not liking someone who didn't look like or behaved like them and like that a result of the human brain having a limited capacity with respect to who one should consider a friend or foe and it can manifest in so many different ways its impossible to create a strict pattern for what those markers are. If you wanna say some people don't like people that don't look like them, however you wanna define that, or people they don't know or are not part of their circle or community thats fine but thats again the sun rising, it just happens. If we were able to rationally judge every person in a calculated matter we wouldn't have societies we would just be random people hanging out with everyone we came across but thats not how our biology works. A last point, if you think that there is some trans historical white man that enacts upon women and poc bodies, you are essentially presenting a biological phenomenon that cannot be changed unless crispr tech and bio gen gets to that point yeah it can.
Great topic 👍. making 74,000,000 million voter's 30,000,000 who voted twice for Obama as villain's and have no hope of humanity is a bad tactic to make good changes happen anytime soon if ever.
Why doesn’t Jacobin cover red native american indian class and race politics? I think it would fit right in nicely and give us a solid governmental systemic practical viewpoint of the intersectionality. Whiteness can be defined as coming from the doctrine of christian discovery as usurped by the english tribe and codified into american land law through what’s left of the english reservation all of which was pretty much voted into existence and kept hidden from mainstream society. It was the cavalry that evicted the reds tho and you can sign up to be military about as easy as you can sign up to be police but I get the translation. Great show thanks.
I feel like their stance as stated by Adolf Reed and Michaels, is that class trumps these discussions of race politics. And your question brings up the problem with that view. ERASURE. Native american indian history is erased from the discussion and their relation to class politics is forgotten. Erasure of black resistance from slavery to sharecropping leads to forgetting the socialist strategies we used against capitalism through the Underground railroad. I feel your question should be amplified because I believe it stands in opposition to their materialist view. Failing to address the racial aspect continues to erase the native history and struggle in direct conflict with capitalism. By the way any good books or videos on class and native american history? I'd love to learn myself
This is a world salad without a coherent argument. What it sounds like is that you don’t understand what socialists mean when they talk about class, and you should hit more basic theory.
I found this discussion unsatisfactory. It seems that their critique of social justice is reduced to strawmanning the idea of representation in capitalist institutions. What about the fact that racism has fundamentally undermined the South's ability unionize as white workers refuse to join with black workers? What about the fact that schools are still segregated, black schools are underresourced. And thus black students have no time to learn about the workers movement? How about the fact that White unions in the 1930s resisted black membership and created the very workforce that would undermine them? Don't just straw man respresentation initiatives. Address the problem of racist white workers who constantly undermine working class organizing. To resolve that we need social justice.
The phrase "social justice" rings rather empty in your comment. What exactly is meant by it? Is it about reducing inequality in the aggregate in society? Or about reducing disparities between groups? If the former, how would you go about achieving this goal? And if it is the latter, doesn't the critique of Reed/Michaels of disparitarian politics (expressed especially cogently around the 22:00 mark on onward) hit home? Yes, working-class whites had racist politics in the past, but does berating them as irredeemable deplorables in the present serve the purpose of achieving a more just society?
To Walter Benn Michaels: if even one human life can be saved or one needless prison sentence averted by more diverse police forces, then it is morally imperative for socialists to pursue this goal along with liberals and other reformists, while still trying to eliminate all police brutality, needless incarceration, child abuse, homelessness, etc., and ultimately capitalism, racism, sexism, ecological collapse, etc. And if you stress this up front, I think that many more people will be receptive to your much needed political argument. As to the title of this segment, it's obviously true that antiracism can't overcome capitalism. And it seems equally obvious to me that anticapitalism - by itself - can't overcome racism, or sexism, or ecological collapse, etc. Even if this sounds like the both/and-ism that Reed is discussing here, that doesn't make it wrong. And again, I think that stating truisms like this at least once up front is likely to make more people interested in following conversations like these, and seriously considering the necessity of socialism and political action informed by socialist perspectives. On the other hand, "... everything they do at Goldman Sachs is the wrong thing and they shouldn't be doing it" is definitely a line to keep and use, with respect to discrimination and absolutely everything else. Thank you for that, and thanks to everyone for the entire discussion of course.
"As to the title of this segment, it's obviously true that antiracism can't overcome capitalism. And it seems equally obvious to me that anticapitalism - by itself - can't overcome racism, or sexism, or ecological collapse, etc. Even if this sounds like the both/and-ism that Reed is discussing here, that doesn't make it wrong." If racism is a function of capitalism, how is it "obvious" that anti-capitalism -"by itself"(?) wouldn't "overcome" racism, given that, among other things, the free market incentives for exploitation and the racist ideology it requires, wouldn't exist. I'm never sure what you guys are getting at with the ubiquitous "by itself"-s and the "equally obvious"-es. For one thing, how could something-that 's-never-existed' in the U.S'. consequences be "obvious" to anyone? BTW, it sounds like both/and-ism because it is both/and-ism. Think harder.
Lol class based anticapitalism, u seem to be confused about concepts mate. What is anti capitalism, or what is capitalism without class? Id pol anticapatilism is ideology , the last barricade of the bourgeoisie, Clinton aint no fluke mfers, and the reproduction of neoliberal capital. By any means necessary.
@@danyalghaznavi6818 My point is anti-capitalists don't have a monopoly on class issues. Scandinavian social democracy (a form of capitalism) has overcome the vast majority of the problems anti-capitalists attribute to capitalism. Fundamentally I care about making people's lives better, not seizing the means of production.
@@synchronium24 Yea Scandinavian Social democracy is still based on rather not so Scandinavian but rather Global imperialism and all its supply chains. It may make life a bit better for certain europeans but in no way makes life better for the majority of the world.
Anti capitalism is internationalist or its bourgeois wanking, in watever form it may take. Id pol is just the most reactionary and degenerate form currently invented by the bourgeoisie, thats all, nothing new abt it.
@@synchronium24 dude they are absolute still a class based society. I think you don't have a marxist definition of class, you think its just another idpol category
Walter I respectfully submit that your analysis is fundamentally flawed when you argue that we should not seek to figure out who caused past or present oppression or to otherwise require recompense. Your argument appears to be much like the Judo Christian view advanced - ... seek not your reward on earth instead seek your reward in heaven. Only an oppressor or oppressor sympathizer would advance that view.
There's a very, very small difference between knowing something and judging something but it's a real difference, based primarily on whether the individual believes in their own free will or not.
Aye...and to defeat a predator, you can't remain the prey. There's value in learning that what you consume, consumes you. Most predators are oblivious to this and operate on instinct. Our "free will" allows us to override instincts, if we choose to do so.....
@@JeffCaplan313 Interesting that predators have the need to find superiority even in justifying their predatory actions. Trust that those whom predators see as their prey have never seen themselves as victims. Surviving and thriving in the midst of four hundred years of oppression does not a victim mindset equate. Predators will always be predators and how dare Caplan among them should dare to preach their virtues so that they can find humor in the chase. Stay in your lane Caplan, stay in your lane!!!
Well I would like to agree to the greater good. But as this pandemic has shown people are shellfish. So to think people will give up something (class identity or perks) in order for everyone to benefit negate the problem of human emotions.
@@psy2mentor what did Jordan Peterson say? I’m not familiar with his work. Let’s be honest racism within itself is a form of selfishness, “I don’t want to share resources with this other group” or “ I don’t want socialism because that means we all will have the shared resources”. These hierarchy system thrive off scarcity. In economics they teach supply and demand. If I make produce,make or sell something that lots of people want I can make very little supply to demand and higher price for those goods. This can be done intentionally or naturally. Example would be a Lamborghini the price reflect the amount of the produced. You’ll rarely see one in real life because they are hand made and exclusive to attract a certain costumer. A VW is mass produced and the price reflects that they have to sell millions to break even on the price.
@@youngswoops I made a silly joke about your autocorrect typo. "But as this pandemic has shown people are SHELLFISH." Peterson once famously compared people to lobsters to justify hierarchical structures in human society, Yeah, it's pretty lowbrow for this crowd, I admit.
8:30 when he talks about “oh let’s put a white guy to do that job” that is not the answer that folks give. Their answer is the one you’re giving, who tf would say “let’s put a white guy to do that job” ?
Good conversation, but I think characterizing those who fight against police brutality from a racial disparity standpoint as if they wanted other races to be proportionally brutalized is stretching it by a lot.
I get you, but he is right to a degree. Many activists choose to almost exclusively focus on the racial disparities in police brutality and fatalities instead of the universal issues of police brutality and trigger-happiness. No one should be beaten up or killed by police ever, unless it is unquestionably necessary.
@@supernsansa Indeed, Reede basically ignores jen pan's question to focus on these type of activists, what Reede calls primordialists or race reductionists or whatever. I mean, the critiques against these sorts are valid, but the question Jen Pan asked was about people making my argument, which was the "we need to do both" camp I mean, if we're right, just say so and we can move on, but when you are asked about the "let's do both" argument and you focus on race reductionism, then that basically amounts to strawmanning. Honst debate answers the questions you are asked, not the ones you wish were asked.And let's also not forget that Michaels is not a "let's do both" that he whole heartedly advocates against targeted programs and inf avor of universalism, that he says he's "class reductionist curious" and that he says pretty much the solution tot he problem is as simple as giving everyone healthcare. Well I beg to differ.
@@neilmuir3503 What do you mean? How does humanity solve racism? I'm always open to sharing my ideas, but you need to be more clear as to what you are asking me to do. In the context of this specific discussion, which I believe is the safest assumption as to what you are asking specifically, I'd say a better understanding of the process of capitalism or class society more broadly, is what is necessary. This needs to be at the social level rather than the individual level. There needs to be greater understanding generally speaking, and I recognize the difficulty here what with the education system continually under assault by reaction everywhere. My opinion has been developing, so things I've written about earlier (such as when I wrote that comment), may have been updated. Early on, I understood our current mode of production, which is labeled capitalism, late stage capitalism, early techno feudalism, finance capitalism, imperialism and I'm sure there are more, more or less like everyone else. The pat response goes something like, "Racism is used to justify capitalism." This made sense to me at an intuitive level, as it should anyone who would dare call themselves a materialist. However, as a materialist, I eventually noticed that the empirical reality I experienced did not resemble the idea that racism justified capitalism. A justification, to me, is understood as an socially normative validation of a certain action, outcome or both. What I see in the US mostly, but also expresses itself in international relations among other places, is rather the exact opposite. The processes and functions of capitalist class society seem to be what justifies and permits, what constructs the general social validation of racial disparities. Thus it is not racism that justifies capitalism but capitalism that justifies racism! Whaaaaaa?! Now I started getting a lil confused. That is what I saw, that is what we all see. On the other hand, we all also know that capitalism describes a specific mode of production, and as I understand it, that mode of production forms the material base of society. It is then the function of ideology to "justify" that mode of production. So we are back where we started. The theory says one thing but empirical observation shows something different. What I suggest is something like Marx's MCM' formula. This simple equation can be abstracted further into Quantity, Quality, Quantity. I don't want to get into all this, it's an underdeveloped area of focus for me, but generally speaking, what I see is that in the market, a commodity is seen as a value and not much else. This is what allows its conversion into money. However, for the customer, the commodity has to have a use value and use value itself is characteristically something personal, individual, it tends to reduce to the subjective psychological being of the user or consumer. This personalizing tendency is the fuel which drives capitalism, it is ideological in nature, irrational, cultural etc. etc. Through the entire space of the "personal" is where the final minute details of resolving the various market forces always in various states of opposition to each other, and then converted into money by the capitalist. Thus, probably could have summed it all up just by saying this: Capitalism does form the economic base of society, but there is also a folklore and mythology about capitalism which serves to justify racial disparity. In other words, you have the ideology of capitalism which sustains a racist ideology that results in specific market and government policy decisions. I mean, I don't have it all worked out, but thanks for asking, that's my take.
9:35 I don’t think many people are mad about not being promoted in Goldman Sachs, that’s not an everyday job and that does not represent the working class. I get his point especially with the CNA example but this guy is kinda arguing in bad faith.
its an example of a broader trend to focus on jobs that really shouldn't exist at all and say they aren't diverse enough. it doesn't challenge wealth inequality, it just says we need to be more race realist about it.
@@neilmuir3503 so what does he propose as an evolution of his archaic praxis? or is he just screaming out in an echo chamber disappointed because people dont get it?
@@breadandwater7038 lol arachic praxis, its actually much more pragmatic. Material redistribution, real equality. Making the rich more diverse does not solve inequality, it allows in to continue exactly as it was.
@@neilmuir3503 see but thats not even the conversation that is being had in terms of race.. i care more about poor people in everyday lives that face racism as do most of us organizers. race equality in the context of the rich aint shit to me. do an analysis of their effects on poor people like when the dude at mcdonlads gets fired because hes black. i get thats hes draggin the hypocrisy in the rich, but for poor and lower class people it certainly means something, and he talks about it like what he says applies to all classes.
Thanks for the Reed content lately. I get an odd vibe from some of the creators on this channel tbh(I dig everyone in this video, I apologize for any negativity, I’m a poor addict waiting for a leader type to say go, if/when it happens I’ll die happily taking out some of these rich/murderous/evil/corrupt/rapacious fucks along with whoever else wants to force this country left, strengthened in the knowledge that no other option exists, when voting for another flavor of Imperialism, expressing our opinions to those who have purchased so much power, can have no effect on the existence of the enormous, ridiculous, money hungry, duplicitous killing machine. I expect, should it happen in my lifetime, It will be an ugly, painful, failure, and I’ll only be able to pray grandkids will never have the option of blowing up schools, hospitals and churches thousands of miles from their homes, families, lives, for the benefit of some old money fucks, whom they’ll never know or have the ability to name, from a basement Colorado, as a viable career choice.) all that being said I don’t want to waste time with dishonesty. I forgot where I was going with this. Fire the one that was so nice to Thatcher, and anyone else who sees power alone as virtue to admired and respected, and I’ll smash that sub dudes. Not that it will effect your numbers much lol. Damn now I’m all worked up. Again, thanks for all the Reed. I apologize for the verbosity. “Love each other as I have loved you,” Jesus, before some Pig took him out This is all satire coppy, go plant a tree or something. Tell your boss you don’t need your gun, loggers and electricians are more likely to die on the job than you are. Again, go plant a fucking tree, give a child whatever cash you have on you, take a fucking walk, I’m tired of paying for your gas and not owning a car. Give me your fucking car while your at it. If you don’t, I’ll kill you
Why are Adolph Reed & Walter Benn Michaels so obsessed with trying to convince black America to forget racial justice & concentrate on class reductionism? Surely we can do both, or walk and chew gum at the same time.
White middle class liberals are obsessed with race and identity politics. It allows them to pay lip service to inequality while keeping working class people in their place. It's a diversionary tactic that maintains focus on a neverending problem, racism, in a way that is similar to the 'War on Drugs'. It is a 'war' that cannot be won, and total focus on it prevents economic change.
@@kspfan001 If you believe all racism is about class you don't understand the human condition and need to check your theories against human and institutional behavior.
where is the evidence that black women are funneled into low wage jobs? i don't see any these big companies are not going to pay anyone any more than they are worth on the market me you or anyone so they have to get training
@@neilmuir3503 the shareholders don't work for the company if the owner has a salary why not it's his company the exec's don't determine their own salary
anti racism isnt suppose to overcome capitalism. thats not the purpose. its to overcome racism. not everyone cares about overcoming capitalism. and thats their choice. if they dont want racism then thats the struggle they choose. are anti capitalists not going to join anti racism because it doesnt affect them.
@@fe3cf not all anti capitalist are black. Most i ve seen complaining about anti racism are whyte. Not all black people are going to feell the same about racism. I would say the majority do want tk fight racism directly. Most are not anti capitalist.
@@neilmuir3503 ah, thats the issue. i never said drop fighting economic issues. its these class reductionist who want to only focus on class and say race struggles distract from progress. where i follow the believe that they arent in opposition. its not either or. you deal with race class gender at the same time
@@episdosas9949 class is not an idpol category. its about your place in a political-economic system, its not about like if you wear fancy suits or some shit. how do you think inequality should be dealt with?
So funny to watch some dude from academia, who says something like "we are trying to make these jobs good...". How many jobs did he actually made himself? Did he employ anyone other than a cleaning lady in his expensive house?
Adolph Reed is so based, it hurts.
so based??
@@jelef001 - Absolutely.
Based is a slang term that originally meant to be addicted to crack cocaine (or acting like you were), but was reclaimed by rapper Lil B for being yourself and not caring what others think of you-to carry yourself with swagger. A word used when you agree with something; or when you want to recognize someone for being themselves, i.e. courageous and unique or not caring what others think.
My vote for best single line: "Everything they do at Goldman Sachs is the wrong thing and they shouldn't be doing it."
"I'm class-reduction curious."
“We say you don’t fight capitalism with no black capitalism; you fight capitalism with socialism” - Fred Hampton. That’s what this kinda reminded me of
You can't start a black revolution with a judas in your party.
@@allenguillory6337 you cant start a revolution with a colonized mind. A people will never revolt against a people whose values they share. Amos Wilson. Most Black people have been taught to accept capitalistic VALUES. Materialism, Individualism, Conspicuous Consumption, etc. There will always be a judas. A judas will not stop a movement. I love the discussion but these ivory tower philosophers dont like to get their hands dirty. There are a lot of self-serving people out here too, especially in media. It also takes a special courage to confront a system. Fred, Martin, Malcolm, Medgar had the courage of their convictions. When the system pushes back, as it inevitably will, do you have the courage to go on?
@@kemwershabbaka4351 going to war against capitalism looks like a losing battle considering most countries in the world have adopted capitalism
and there is nothing inherently immoral about capitalism anyway
@@robinsss looks like we're the ones losing to me. 700,000 dead in this country and millions around the world in large part due to capitalism and you say there is nothing immoral about that? When you have a great economic power (allegedly) that cant even gear up to produce the essential protective equipment to protect its people what do you call it? When companies wont test, develop, or repurpose theraputics to mitigate the effects of a deadly virus because there's no money in it what do you call it? When drug companies get a windfall of PUBLIC money yet do not see the morality in releasing the patents on drug formulas so the world could get vaccinated reducing the chance of variants and save millions of lives WHAT DO YOU CALL IT? Please give me your definition of inherently immoral.
@@kemwershabbaka4351 ''''''''''''''looks like we're the ones losing to me. 700,000 dead in this country and millions around the world in large part due to capitalism'''''''
how is capitalism to blame for those deaths ?
covid?
Happy to see Stephen Spielberg come around.
who knew spielberg was a comrade lmao
hahaha
Why?
😑 Celebrity worship is so 1990’s.
There are no victimless billionaires.
with Owen Wilson voice
@@hangukhiphop “Wooooooow, the workers should control the means of production.”
Adolph is stunningly insightful here!!!
but he said race can not be separated from capitalism
that's not true
race came from science
so it's separate
@@robinsss LOL!
@@robinsss LOL!!I you are hilarious
@@manofsorrow4785 why?
@@robinsss race is made up lol. there is no scientific basis, this has been proved over and over.
My people!
I thought I was the only one that had this figured out.
I've tried to bring this up to moderates and they just can't wrap their minds around it.
How long would Robin DiAngelo have a DEI gig if she were consultant on labor and instead of race at corporations?
excellent question! I can't believe I heard her name a million times before I heard of Reed.
Fighting for equal representation in fundamentally corrupt institutions only serves to legitimize those institutions.
What makes an institution *"fundamentally"* corrupt? Are not all institutions simply amalgamations of their members?
@@JeffCaplan313 no
@chet hanks Care to elaborate? What makes an institution FUNDAMENTALLY corrupt?
@@JeffCaplan313 depends on what its supposed purpose is, id say If it is set up structurally so that what it does contradicts what it is supposed to do, you've got a problem.
@@neilmuir3503 Can you give me an example of one?
"Every thing they do at Goldman & Sachs is the wrong thing, and they shouldn't be doing it."
I think this conversation could have benefitted from acknowledging how racism is a tool of enforcing capitalism.
They did that in another video of this same interview. Each video is only a snippet.
Why be bitter and jealous? Capitalism works beautifully. 👑👑👑
Breath of fresh air
Public good concept is a great idea; a direct approach to solving inequality: identify the need for a public good, then provide the public good.
Hey Jacobin team. Could you also include a link to the full video in the description for subscribers?
Done. Link is now in the expanded description box.
The argument of class and race being completely conflated is easily disproven by removing race. In areas of the US where there is a small or minimal Black population, you find all of the stories that are typically ascribed to and by them happening within the poor white population. In fact, a lot of the notions of job channeling and poor options in work and housing are all Appalachian white stories. Likewise, in Africa, you have all of the same stories that are simply based on different types of bigoted classifications rather than race- whether it's gender, religion, tribe xcetera. So what we can see in both situations is that the operating variable, regardless of any other, is class. This is obviously true because capitalism requires, not just results in but requires, a layer of exploitation to generate surplus. I think the reason why you see it in the States, this argument, so often is largely due to social segregation. I live in Detroit, which is anomaly for several reasons, but certainly there are many Black people who have grown up with virtually no relationships with white people, and no contact with them except through media depictions or perhaps hinterland encounters. Therefore, they really have no idea what that life is like, and vice versa. If you had poor whites and poor Blacks living side-by-side, it would be very clear to everyone how fundamentally similar their lives are.
Interested in WBMs arguments. No dislikes!
Intersectionality is real we seamlessly navigate the spaces in between the classes yes i agree the true intent of race and racism was to seperate elite whites and poor white or better working class white vs owner class whites. When blackness was invented it was a great way to turn a class stratification into a caste system. This is why some think supporting multi racial coalitions will end in one group getting something while the other parts of the coalition get nothing via the new deal, voting rights for men only, etc.. Its simple blacks know that any coalition that is not willing on its face to public stand for black issues with clear rhetoric that may be unpopular and can create backlash is not a person or a coalition who is going to fight for the benefit of the whole coalition. I hear dr Reed always talk of how much sense it makes to form a coalition, but if you can't not trust those you are coalescing with because they are fundamentally okay with caste stratification through personal which perpetuate systemic caste outcomes, and who have a history of betrayal...how many times does the frog take the scorpion knowing that the scorpion unapologetic for the last tome it stung the frog.
Interesting a history of betrayal..if that is the case whay in this case in the light of that premise do you suggest is the most sensible or smartest way going forward in terms of action direction
@@chrisbennett6260 Great question I would say if you want to build the trust support legislation like the voting rights bill, support legislation like HR40 to study reparations, support police accountability reform, stand with us on issues of justice, education, infrastructure and business contracts. Then for class solidarity we need to fight for real changes, like establishing a strike fund insurance paid by employers that works like unemployment and pays out when workers decide to strike. We need to reminagine this economy and with so much deferred maintained we have a generations worth of meaningful socetial building work that we can accomplish together.
Comrade comment.
Comrade response.
@@ginch8300 both spelled consumer wrong
@@smith6752 so edgy. “You hate capitalism, yet you engage in the system” much?
@@blakereid5785 uh like totally sorry comrade
The point they made about corporations & hiring more POCs was outfuckingrageousamazing with crystal clarity.
Too many reasonable points were made and made well in this video.
I will have to ask TH-cam to make sure fewer people see it!
god damnit i fucking love this show/panel
Frequently, the credo sounded like this: “Why should we focus on this sin [of racism] or that sin [of sexism], when both problems will essentially be solved once we overcome sin itself?”
yeah thats the point
"Antiracism Can’t Overcome Capitalism" because racism isn't sui generis: it originates in/is a function of/is conditioned by: capitalism.
racism predates capitalism
Sub-Saharan Africa, has been produced and reproduced to be the poorest region on Earth with the lowest life expectancy.
Haiti, the site of Black rebellion has been produced and reproduced to be the poorest country in the Western Hemisphere.
In America, Black Americans that descend from chattel slavery has been produced and reproduced to be the poorest group in the United States with the lowest life expectancy.
Somehow this is all coincidental and we should mainly focus on class. Also they always critique/argue against the most neoliberal corporate approved version of Anti-Racism, but thats Jacobin for ya.
@Oscar Strokosz Capitalism did not exist when chattel slavery started so....
@Oscar Strokosz Are you dumb?
When has a gig worker had their children taken and sold on the open market?
Very interesting
@Oscar Strokosz sure
it isnt really anti racism a lot of these so called anti racists sound far more racist then self confessed racists
I like the question adolph puts forth withnstuff like reperations, "how do you figure out who is black". might as well get out the calipers and start measuring skulls again lol.
One question that always lingers in my mind... the "living wage". I see it defined in vague terms, and I think if it was defined better, there would be less arguments about the abstract "living wage". Maybe a formula that takes into account location, relative cost of living, etc. so that everyone can say, "yes, this is a living wage" or not about a particular situation.
Somebody working as a cashier at a McDonald's in Denmark makes $45,000 a year, has 5 weeks paid vacation, paid parental leave, in practice unlimited paid sick days. and, of course, a pension plan.
Living wage wasn't a thing for American auto workers because of unions. There's talk about imposing minimum wage in the EU. Scandinavian unions are fighting this tooth and nail. They fear a minimum wage will result in lower wages.
In order to live, one needs to be healthy and wages aside, we do not live in a healthy culture.
I wonder how happy and healthy that McDonald's worker is...I bet a lot of it depends on their diet decisions and the Healthcare that is accessible and affordable for them to access for help.
All the world's major cities have a cost of living you can look up.
An alternative ti social insurance so everyone has housing, food, education, clothing etc needed to live a decent life.
Great conversation just come across it from the UK
How did you land an interview with Steven Spielberg?
Are you sure he's not Señor Spielbergo?
is that especially hard to do?
haha adolph reed REFUSES TO CLEAN HIS ROOM! You do you Adolph! haha love him
Race and class have been entangled from the beginning of time like the caste system in India, the darker skinned belonged to the "earthier" and therefore closer to animals and of an inferior order. The elevated and elite orders were closer to the divine and enlightened and also had lighter color skin, Aryans. Who were Caucasian. Or Indo Europeans. Interesting parallel is that the tower of Babylon was a ziggurat or step pyramid which not only represented the cosmic house and order but also the class stratifications of the social structure. Hence at the top is the demi god hero of the high king who is also high priest the mediator between the heavenly rulers and gods and human beings.
Subscribed at 81.4k subscribers.
Adolph Reede: Well, Wally, ol' friend, you need to come to do this Jacobin with me. I really need to make a fool of you on the DL I mean, I really can't have you out there calling yourself a class reductionist, knowwhatimdayin?
10:22 I had cultural resources at a much higher degree than class resources (I grew up rural poor) and they saved my life and now I’m going to be a lawyer… what say you to this ?
You were fortunate/lucky to have acess to something which benefited you and which allowed you to to continue the work to get where you are. Doesn't mean it works for everyone who has the same acess so said resources and is a universal/objective solution to poverty. This is literally what conservates say about placement tests which resulted in simmilar outcome. Good for you. Glad you got to where you are. But these things are not the best universal solution to solve poverty.
bruh your argument is literally I made it so why cant everyone else
@@neilmuir3503 not what i was saying... im pointing out how reductive adolph is being by focusing on just class, by me pointing out just cultural resources.. yall do know that their are academic pratices that try and analyze social structures through both right? thats what i hate about intellectuals like this guy, theyre super fundamentalists in terms of their own area of expertise.. either that or they cant see anything past what theyve been taught, and so they stick to what they think is right and disregard the rest.
@@breadandwater7038 dude thats not an argument against what they are saying. you are just said you dont like them, you didnt address any of the content.
@@neilmuir3503 do you not see the timestamp.. look over that argument that hes making .
NO, NOBODY TELLS US WHAT TO SDO GOD DAMINI IT!
this convo was so helpful! I was wondering if you could have someone on to talk specifically about K-12 education from a socialist perspective? A lot of this anti-black racism and CRT rhetoric is so prevalent in my urban education program.
A People's History by Zinn was a good intro and is way more engaging than boring king this date that history which rarely explains why change happens
Isn’t it amazing that the “both and” discussion of racism vs capitalism accepts that given capitalism we should solve racism. Whereas none of these “both and” folks do the reverse - given racism we should solve capitalism - because they tacitly accept capitalism as if it weren’t worse than racism, which it is. At my job, I have no free speech (if I criticize my boss, I get fired and my wife and kid starve) and every day I literally sit at a separate lunch counter (staff have a separate, dilapidated cafeteria that is greatly inferior to the bosses’ facilities- private offices and beautiful conference rooms). And none of these “anti-racists” acknowledge my oppression. To the contrary, my company hired a female, black “diversity counselor” (who earns much more than me) and she will rubber stamp preventing the all female secretarial staff and the all black mailroom from unionizing. Which makes their “anti-racist” and “anti-sexist” horseshit a con on two accounts; they don’t give a shit about capitalist oppression or racism and sexism.
Yes. Thats the point. Racialized groups can be complicit with capitalism which in turn does much damage to the working class and their own race !!!
As far as the job competency is concerned, whoever is most competent must get the job, regardless of race, background, and religion. It doesn't happen. Nepotism and preference gets in the way. South Africa is practising priority enpolyment system where the reverse apartheid is introduced. No wonder the country is going downhill. The Black Africans do need more education and vocational training. So do many White and Asian races, too. The government should look into offering free education. The university fees are too expensive to repay. That system is heavily influenced by Capitalism. The rich class may not find the burden so much as the unprivileged. The rich students may finance one extra unprivileged tuition.
Amen.
Based on the title alone, I agree. But will there be a companion piece on how anticapitalism can’t overcome racism?
Fair question. I would contend that racism loses it's power when economic and social factors are equalized. If you get rid of capitalism you get rid of the power racists can have.
To put it another way, if someone hates you for your heritage/culture/DNA (a racist), but doesn't have economic or social power over you... what does it matter if they are racist?
@@LongDefiant You can still have KKK group terrorising and murdering Black families. Like you can still have rape and violence against women. These problems predate capitalism, and getting rid of a class structure will help, but it won't make them disappear.
@@Lily-ni5po how can a person rape or murder another person (and get away with it) if they don't have some form of power over them?
If they do those things and then have to run for their lives, or they are locked up or killed in revenge, that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about rape and murder with impunity.
@@LongDefiant the rape will still have happened. You can punish the rapist, the victim will still lived through the assault. All a perpetrator needs is more physical strength or to get their victim in a weak state. Adults can also take advantage of their power over children. Can we create a society where men and white people in general do not feel entitled to others' body? Probably, but that goes beyond class structure. Class structures help maintain this entitlement and help subjugating victims, but this kind of violence is perpetrated outside these structures. These structures did not invent this violence.
@@Lily-ni5po I don't think most marxists or leftists think that by getting rid of capitalism that you will magically get rid of violence or rape or murder. These are human phenomenon that in and of themselves will always happen and as such don't really have solutions beyond current forms of prevention or even retrospetive solutions. But you see this is my problem with the rebuttle towards economic change and the change in social relations, they are presented in a way that makes it look like they can't be changed and therefore there is no point trying. Its almost like saying the sun will rise well yeah no shit it will but we can't do anything about that. Violence is not in that sense a political issue in the sense that you can come up with some solution that will ontologically fix it, it will have to be a case by case issue.
And I'm sorry but this entitlement you describe of white people enacting upon other's bodies seems a bit poetic in the way it is described. White superiority, in the sense of there is some identity that is called white that is thought of as better then other identities is a relatively new thing. Look at anciet rome, you had people of all colors and creeds be considered citizens and slaves, the concept of whiteness as we understand it wasn't a thing. If there was prejudice it was a result of people, irrespective of their "race" not liking someone who didn't look like or behaved like them and like that a result of the human brain having a limited capacity with respect to who one should consider a friend or foe and it can manifest in so many different ways its impossible to create a strict pattern for what those markers are. If you wanna say some people don't like people that don't look like them, however you wanna define that, or people they don't know or are not part of their circle or community thats fine but thats again the sun rising, it just happens. If we were able to rationally judge every person in a calculated matter we wouldn't have societies we would just be random people hanging out with everyone we came across but thats not how our biology works. A last point, if you think that there is some trans historical white man that enacts upon women and poc bodies, you are essentially presenting a biological phenomenon that cannot be changed unless crispr tech and bio gen gets to that point yeah it can.
Great topic 👍. making 74,000,000 million voter's 30,000,000 who voted twice for Obama as villain's and have no hope of humanity is a bad tactic to make good changes happen anytime soon if ever.
Why doesn’t Jacobin cover red native american indian class and race politics? I think it would fit right in nicely and give us a solid governmental systemic practical viewpoint of the intersectionality. Whiteness can be defined as coming from the doctrine of christian discovery as usurped by the english tribe and codified into american land law through what’s left of the english reservation all of which was pretty much voted into existence and kept hidden from mainstream society. It was the cavalry that evicted the reds tho and you can sign up to be military about as easy as you can sign up to be police but I get the translation. Great show thanks.
I feel like their stance as stated by Adolf Reed and Michaels, is that class trumps these discussions of race politics. And your question brings up the problem with that view. ERASURE. Native american indian history is erased from the discussion and their relation to class politics is forgotten. Erasure of black resistance from slavery to sharecropping leads to forgetting the socialist strategies we used against capitalism through the Underground railroad. I feel your question should be amplified because I believe it stands in opposition to their materialist view. Failing to address the racial aspect continues to erase the native history and struggle in direct conflict with capitalism. By the way any good books or videos on class and native american history? I'd love to learn myself
This is a world salad without a coherent argument. What it sounds like is that you don’t understand what socialists mean when they talk about class, and you should hit more basic theory.
I found this discussion unsatisfactory. It seems that their critique of social justice is reduced to strawmanning the idea of representation in capitalist institutions. What about the fact that racism has fundamentally undermined the South's ability unionize as white workers refuse to join with black workers? What about the fact that schools are still segregated, black schools are underresourced. And thus black students have no time to learn about the workers movement? How about the fact that White unions in the 1930s resisted black membership and created the very workforce that would undermine them? Don't just straw man respresentation initiatives. Address the problem of racist white workers who constantly undermine working class organizing. To resolve that we need social justice.
Thank. You.
Words don't really penetrate through your bubble of smug self-righteous self-satisfaction, do they?
@@Jesse-qy6ur not when a discussion begins with smug ad hominems. Not. Really.
@@chrishale5213 And here I thought the ligma pandemic had burned itself out a few years ago.
The phrase "social justice" rings rather empty in your comment. What exactly is meant by it? Is it about reducing inequality in the aggregate in society? Or about reducing disparities between groups? If the former, how would you go about achieving this goal? And if it is the latter, doesn't the critique of Reed/Michaels of disparitarian politics (expressed especially cogently around the 22:00 mark on onward) hit home? Yes, working-class whites had racist politics in the past, but does berating them as irredeemable deplorables in the present serve the purpose of achieving a more just society?
To Walter Benn Michaels: if even one human life can be saved or one needless prison sentence averted by more diverse police forces, then it is morally imperative for socialists to pursue this goal along with liberals and other reformists, while still trying to eliminate all police brutality, needless incarceration, child abuse, homelessness, etc., and ultimately capitalism, racism, sexism, ecological collapse, etc. And if you stress this up front, I think that many more people will be receptive to your much needed political argument.
As to the title of this segment, it's obviously true that antiracism can't overcome capitalism. And it seems equally obvious to me that anticapitalism - by itself - can't overcome racism, or sexism, or ecological collapse, etc. Even if this sounds like the both/and-ism that Reed is discussing here, that doesn't make it wrong. And again, I think that stating truisms like this at least once up front is likely to make more people interested in following conversations like these, and seriously considering the necessity of socialism and political action informed by socialist perspectives.
On the other hand, "... everything they do at Goldman Sachs is the wrong thing and they shouldn't be doing it" is definitely a line to keep and use, with respect to discrimination and absolutely everything else. Thank you for that, and thanks to everyone for the entire discussion of course.
"As to the title of this segment, it's obviously true that antiracism can't overcome capitalism. And it seems equally obvious to me that anticapitalism - by itself - can't overcome racism, or sexism, or ecological collapse, etc. Even if this sounds like the both/and-ism that Reed is discussing here, that doesn't make it wrong."
If racism is a function of capitalism, how is it "obvious" that anti-capitalism -"by itself"(?) wouldn't "overcome" racism, given that, among other things, the free market incentives for exploitation and the racist ideology it requires, wouldn't exist. I'm never sure what you guys are getting at with the ubiquitous "by itself"-s and the "equally obvious"-es. For one thing, how could something-that 's-never-existed' in the U.S'. consequences be "obvious" to anyone? BTW, it sounds like both/and-ism because it is both/and-ism. Think harder.
"Antiracism Can’t Overcome Capitalism"
Neither can class-based anticapitalism, albeit it is preferable to idpol anticapitalism.
Lol class based anticapitalism, u seem to be confused about concepts mate. What is anti capitalism, or what is capitalism without class? Id pol anticapatilism is ideology , the last barricade of the bourgeoisie, Clinton aint no fluke mfers, and the reproduction of neoliberal capital. By any means necessary.
@@danyalghaznavi6818 My point is anti-capitalists don't have a monopoly on class issues. Scandinavian social democracy (a form of capitalism) has overcome the vast majority of the problems anti-capitalists attribute to capitalism. Fundamentally I care about making people's lives better, not seizing the means of production.
@@synchronium24 Yea Scandinavian Social democracy is still based on rather not so Scandinavian but rather Global imperialism and all its supply chains. It may make life a bit better for certain europeans but in no way makes life better for the majority of the world.
Anti capitalism is internationalist or its bourgeois wanking, in watever form it may take. Id pol is just the most reactionary and degenerate form currently invented by the bourgeoisie, thats all, nothing new abt it.
@@synchronium24 dude they are absolute still a class based society. I think you don't have a marxist definition of class, you think its just another idpol category
Walter I respectfully submit that your analysis is fundamentally flawed when you argue that we should not seek to figure out who caused past or present oppression or to otherwise require recompense. Your argument appears to be much like the Judo Christian view advanced - ... seek not your reward on earth instead seek your reward in heaven. Only an oppressor or oppressor sympathizer would advance that view.
There's a very, very small difference between knowing something and judging something but it's a real difference, based primarily on whether the individual believes in their own free will or not.
@@JeffCaplan313 One's perspective depends on whether they are the predator or the prey.
Aye...and to defeat a predator, you can't remain the prey.
There's value in learning that what you consume, consumes you. Most predators are oblivious to this and operate on instinct. Our "free will" allows us to override instincts, if we choose to do so.....
@@JeffCaplan313 Interesting that predators have the need to find superiority even in justifying their predatory actions. Trust that those whom predators see as their prey have never seen themselves as victims. Surviving and thriving in the midst of four hundred years of oppression does not a victim mindset equate. Predators will always be predators and how dare Caplan among them should dare to preach their virtues so that they can find humor in the chase. Stay in your lane Caplan, stay in your lane!!!
bro they are saying you have to change the game itself. if you goal is not to get rid of Poverty, what the fuck are we doing here
Well I would like to agree to the greater good. But as this pandemic has shown people are shellfish. So to think people will give up something (class identity or perks) in order for everyone to benefit negate the problem of human emotions.
If people are shellfish, then I guess Jordan Peterson was right... 😉
@@psy2mentor what did Jordan Peterson say? I’m not familiar with his work. Let’s be honest racism within itself is a form of selfishness, “I don’t want to share resources with this other group” or “ I don’t want socialism because that means we all will have the shared resources”. These hierarchy system thrive off scarcity. In economics they teach supply and demand. If I make produce,make or sell something that lots of people want I can make very little supply to demand and higher price for those goods. This can be done intentionally or naturally. Example would be a Lamborghini the price reflect the amount of the produced. You’ll rarely see one in real life because they are hand made and exclusive to attract a certain costumer. A VW is mass produced and the price reflects that they have to sell millions to break even on the price.
@@youngswoops I made a silly joke about your autocorrect typo. "But as this pandemic has shown people are SHELLFISH." Peterson once famously compared people to lobsters to justify hierarchical structures in human society,
Yeah, it's pretty lowbrow for this crowd, I admit.
@@psy2mentor naw you good, goes to show were all just dumb monkeys riding a rock into space.
Jacobin are such chads
8:30 when he talks about “oh let’s put a white guy to do that job” that is not the answer that folks give. Their answer is the one you’re giving, who tf would say “let’s put a white guy to do that job” ?
libs do say that
Good conversation, but I think characterizing those who fight against police brutality from a racial disparity standpoint as if they wanted other races to be proportionally brutalized is stretching it by a lot.
lol omg you made gave me an idea. Isn't the US legal system the definitive example of implemented universalism?
I get you, but he is right to a degree. Many activists choose to almost exclusively focus on the racial disparities in police brutality and fatalities instead of the universal issues of police brutality and trigger-happiness. No one should be beaten up or killed by police ever, unless it is unquestionably necessary.
@@supernsansa Indeed, Reede basically ignores jen pan's question to focus on these type of activists, what Reede calls primordialists or race reductionists or whatever. I mean, the critiques against these sorts are valid, but the question Jen Pan asked was about people making my argument, which was the "we need to do both" camp I mean, if we're right, just say so and we can move on, but when you are asked about the "let's do both" argument and you focus on race reductionism, then that basically amounts to strawmanning.
Honst debate answers the questions you are asked, not the ones you wish were asked.And let's also not forget that Michaels is not a "let's do both" that he whole heartedly advocates against targeted programs and inf avor of universalism, that he says he's "class reductionist curious" and that he says pretty much the solution tot he problem is as simple as giving everyone healthcare. Well I beg to differ.
@@imonincognitosoyoudontreco5419 how do you think you can solve this then?
@@neilmuir3503 What do you mean? How does humanity solve racism? I'm always open to sharing my ideas, but you need to be more clear as to what you are asking me to do.
In the context of this specific discussion, which I believe is the safest assumption as to what you are asking specifically, I'd say a better understanding of the process of capitalism or class society more broadly, is what is necessary. This needs to be at the social level rather than the individual level. There needs to be greater understanding generally speaking, and I recognize the difficulty here what with the education system continually under assault by reaction everywhere.
My opinion has been developing, so things I've written about earlier (such as when I wrote that comment), may have been updated. Early on, I understood our current mode of production, which is labeled capitalism, late stage capitalism, early techno feudalism, finance capitalism, imperialism and I'm sure there are more, more or less like everyone else. The pat response goes something like, "Racism is used to justify capitalism."
This made sense to me at an intuitive level, as it should anyone who would dare call themselves a materialist. However, as a materialist, I eventually noticed that the empirical reality I experienced did not resemble the idea that racism justified capitalism. A justification, to me, is understood as an socially normative validation of a certain action, outcome or both. What I see in the US mostly, but also expresses itself in international relations among other places, is rather the exact opposite. The processes and functions of capitalist class society seem to be what justifies and permits, what constructs the general social validation of racial disparities. Thus it is not racism that justifies capitalism but capitalism that justifies racism! Whaaaaaa?!
Now I started getting a lil confused. That is what I saw, that is what we all see. On the other hand, we all also know that capitalism describes a specific mode of production, and as I understand it, that mode of production forms the material base of society. It is then the function of ideology to "justify" that mode of production. So we are back where we started. The theory says one thing but empirical observation shows something different.
What I suggest is something like Marx's MCM' formula. This simple equation can be abstracted further into Quantity, Quality, Quantity. I don't want to get into all this, it's an underdeveloped area of focus for me, but generally speaking, what I see is that in the market, a commodity is seen as a value and not much else. This is what allows its conversion into money.
However, for the customer, the commodity has to have a use value and use value itself is characteristically something personal, individual, it tends to reduce to the subjective psychological being of the user or consumer. This personalizing tendency is the fuel which drives capitalism, it is ideological in nature, irrational, cultural etc. etc. Through the entire space of the "personal" is where the final minute details of resolving the various market forces always in various states of opposition to each other, and then converted into money by the capitalist.
Thus, probably could have summed it all up just by saying this: Capitalism does form the economic base of society, but there is also a folklore and mythology about capitalism which serves to justify racial disparity. In other words, you have the ideology of capitalism which sustains a racist ideology that results in specific market and government policy decisions.
I mean, I don't have it all worked out, but thanks for asking, that's my take.
What!?!!?
9:35 I don’t think many people are mad about not being promoted in Goldman Sachs, that’s not an everyday job and that does not represent the working class. I get his point especially with the CNA example but this guy is kinda arguing in bad faith.
its an example of a broader trend to focus on jobs that really shouldn't exist at all and say they aren't diverse enough. it doesn't challenge wealth inequality, it just says we need to be more race realist about it.
@@neilmuir3503 so what does he propose as an evolution of his archaic praxis? or is he just screaming out in an echo chamber disappointed because people dont get it?
@@breadandwater7038 lol arachic praxis, its actually much more pragmatic. Material redistribution, real equality. Making the rich more diverse does not solve inequality, it allows in to continue exactly as it was.
@@neilmuir3503 see but thats not even the conversation that is being had in terms of race.. i care more about poor people in everyday lives that face racism as do most of us organizers. race equality in the context of the rich aint shit to me. do an analysis of their effects on poor people like when the dude at mcdonlads gets fired because hes black. i get thats hes draggin the hypocrisy in the rich, but for poor and lower class people it certainly means something, and he talks about it like what he says applies to all classes.
@@breadandwater7038 that is what he's talking about. eliminate wealth inequality,
Thanks for the Reed content lately. I get an odd vibe from some of the creators on this channel tbh(I dig everyone in this video, I apologize for any negativity, I’m a poor addict waiting for a leader type to say go, if/when it happens I’ll die happily taking out some of these rich/murderous/evil/corrupt/rapacious fucks along with whoever else wants to force this country left, strengthened in the knowledge that no other option exists, when voting for another flavor of Imperialism, expressing our opinions to those who have purchased so much power, can have no effect on the existence of the enormous, ridiculous, money hungry, duplicitous killing machine. I expect, should it happen in my lifetime, It will be an ugly, painful, failure, and I’ll only be able to pray grandkids will never have the option of blowing up schools, hospitals and churches thousands of miles from their homes, families, lives, for the benefit of some old money fucks, whom they’ll never know or have the ability to name, from a basement Colorado, as a viable career choice.) all that being said I don’t want to waste time with dishonesty. I forgot where I was going with this. Fire the one that was so nice to Thatcher, and anyone else who sees power alone as virtue to admired and respected, and I’ll smash that sub dudes. Not that it will effect your numbers much lol. Damn now I’m all worked up. Again, thanks for all the Reed. I apologize for the verbosity.
“Love each other as I have loved you,” Jesus, before some Pig took him out
This is all satire coppy, go plant a tree or something. Tell your boss you don’t need your gun, loggers and electricians are more likely to die on the job than you are. Again, go plant a fucking tree, give a child whatever cash you have on you, take a fucking walk, I’m tired of paying for your gas and not owning a car. Give me your fucking car while your at it. If you don’t, I’ll kill you
Why are Adolph Reed & Walter Benn Michaels so obsessed with trying to convince black America to forget racial justice & concentrate on class reductionism? Surely we can do both, or walk and chew gum at the same time.
And how would you go about ensuring racial justice without addressing class issues? Like specifically with what measures? I'm genuinely curious.
It’s clear we are completely failing at doing both though...
"muh do both". Why are you so obsessed with strawmanning them?
Seems you cant. Corporate Dems keep winning.
White middle class liberals are obsessed with race and identity politics. It allows them to pay lip service to inequality while keeping working class people in their place.
It's a diversionary tactic that maintains focus on a neverending problem, racism, in a way that is similar to the 'War on Drugs'. It is a 'war' that cannot be won, and total focus on it prevents economic change.
Classism can't overcome racism.
If you believe this, you fundamentally misunderstand what class is and need to hit more theory.
@@kspfan001 If you believe all racism is about class you don't understand the human condition and need to check your theories against human and institutional behavior.
Classism =/= class exploitation and domination
@@kspfan001 "hit more theory"? You sound like a tween.
what is classism
where is the evidence that black women are funneled into low wage jobs?
i don't see any
these big companies are not going to pay anyone any more than they are worth on the market
me you or anyone
so they have to get training
mate you do realize the people at the top get to decide how much they are paid lol
@@neilmuir3503 no they don't
the company owners and shareholders decide that
@@robinsss yeah and they decide to pay themselves as much as they want. funny how that works huh
@@neilmuir3503 the shareholders don't work for the company
if the owner has a salary why not
it's his company
the exec's don't determine their own salary
@@robinsss if the people who have control over the company do not control how much people in their company get paid, who does?
realise the whole video cale, or i'm gonna charie hebdo bhaskar.
Class reduction adjacent :)
Says the middle class liberal.
@@dónalÓNiadh ?
anti classism wont succeed unless its also anti racist. class race and gender go together. you cant ignore one and expect to change things.
People like you say this only to shut down socialists & leftists and maintain the status quo.
@@kspfan001 nope. Im a socialist. I sayit to shut down racists
how does inequality manifest
@@neilmuir3503 inequality manifest in various ways. how does the sun rise.
@@episdosas9949 so you don't think you can address that by policies aimed at material equality, at focusing on a common good?
anti racism isnt suppose to overcome capitalism. thats not the purpose. its to overcome racism. not everyone cares about overcoming capitalism. and thats their choice. if they dont want racism then thats the struggle they choose. are anti capitalists not going to join anti racism because it doesnt affect them.
You think racism doesn’t effect adolph reed? What hahaha
@@fe3cf not all anti capitalist are black. Most i ve seen complaining about anti racism are whyte. Not all black people are going to feell the same about racism. I would say the majority do want tk fight racism directly. Most are not anti capitalist.
@@episdosas9949 how do you fight racism without fighting against wealth inequality?
@@neilmuir3503 ah, thats the issue. i never said drop fighting economic issues. its these class reductionist who want to only focus on class and say race struggles distract from progress. where i follow the believe that they arent in opposition. its not either or. you deal with race class gender at the same time
@@episdosas9949 class is not an idpol category. its about your place in a political-economic system, its not about like if you wear fancy suits or some shit. how do you think inequality should be dealt with?
So funny to watch some dude from academia, who says something like "we are trying to make these jobs good...". How many jobs did he actually made himself? Did he employ anyone other than a cleaning lady in his expensive house?
mate I don't think you understand jobs. they aren't a gift, thats not how this works.
@@neilmuir3503 who said anything about gift?
@@sergeyzelvenskiy5126 then why are you bitching about him not owning a business?
Capitalism is the best economic system commie
Lol.
LOL how its working for us now.....oh wait it isn't.
>Climate change
>Environmental destruction
>Underfunded hospitals.
>No hospital beds
>Huge military expenditure
>Exploiting immigrant labour
>Millions homeless
how does it feel to be braindead
that’s why it has a stroke every 10 years and crashes lmao