The Loud Absence: Where is God Amidst Suffering and Evil? | John Lennox at Stanford
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- Oxford Mathematician John Lennox considers questions of faith in the context of suffering. | Stanford University, 2011 | Explore more at www.veritas.org.
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The grandfather's voice I never had and wish I had grown up with
I could listen to Lennox all day...
You must love deluded nonsense!
@@GeoCoppens You obviously haven't listened to a word he said.
@@timconstable7348 Same story from beginning to end.
GeoCoppens how’d you know 🤪
The Quran :
Surah 3. « Al-Imran » (« The Family of Imran »)
84. Say, "We have believed in Allah and in what was revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the Descendants, and in what was given to Moses and Jesus and to the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and we are Muslims [submitting] to Him."
85. And whoever desires other than Islam as religion - never will it be accepted from him, and he, in the Hereafter, will be among the losers.
Surah 4. « An-Nisa » (« The Women »)
136. O you who have believed, believe in Allah and His Messenger and the Book that He sent down upon His Messenger and the Scripture which He sent down before. And whoever disbelieves in Allah, His angels, His books, His messengers, and the Last Day has certainly gone far astray.
Surah 21. « Al-Anbiya » (« The Prophets ») :
30. Have those who disbelieved not considered that the heavens and the earth were a joined entity, and We separated them and made from water every living thing? Then will they not believe?
31. And We placed within the earth firmly set mountains, lest it should shift with them, and We made therein [mountain] passes [as] roads that they might be guided.
32. And We made the sky a protected ceiling, but they, from its signs, are turning away.
33. And it is He who created the night and the day and the sun and the moon; all [heavenly bodies] in an orbit are swimming.
34. And We did not grant to any man before you eternity [on earth]; so if you die - would they be eternal?
35. Every soul will taste death. And We test you with evil and with good as trial; and to Us you will be returned.
.
.
104. The Day when We will fold the heaven like the folding of a [written] sheet for the records. As We began the first creation, We will repeat it. [That is] a promise binding upon Us. Indeed, We will do it.
Surah 51. « Adh-Dhariyat » (« The Wind that Scatter ») :
47. And the heaven We constructed with strength, and indeed, We are [its] expander.
48. And the earth We have spread out, and excellent is the preparer.
49. And of all things We created two mates; perhaps you will remember.
50. So flee to Allah. Indeed, I am to you from Him a clear warner.
51. And do not make [as equal] with Allah another deity. Indeed, I am to you from Him a clear warner.
Faith, life, and Jesus Christ in the Quran:
drive.google.com/file/d/1mpGv1QBm7b1GmbqwcNdYn9rZVi2jUufG/view
The Quran:
drive.google.com/file/d/18wPGuwFtwNpMgjMmv8LrhY4wcdbEGigS/view
He has a brillant mind and promotes the existence of God in his humble ways n mannerism. He comes across as a gentleman and a loving person😇🙏
not really, he just makes stuff up that you like to hear, get him to demonstrate god, that would be useful.
@@HarryNicNicholas demonstrate for us Please !
@@HarryNicNicholas God knows, god helps those helping themselves is a saying because gods have a perfect record of nothing doing outside of fiction
@@HarryNicNicholaswwlkqk(elpo]alqqqp😂×p
@@Stupidityindex1:11:03
What a charismatic speaker!
yes he has so many people hypnotised into thinking that the sky daddy is real.
@@HarryNicNicholasmeanwhile you and others will believe that all of reality came from nothing, no cause or reason. And somehow “life” formed from a molten rock. It takes more faith to be an atheist.
@@HarryNicNicholas What a cunning way to portray Lennox as a liar without saying so. Reminiscent of the serpent in the creation story: Did God really say that...? ?
never get tired to listen to Prof. John Lennox..🥰🥰🥰
really? that inane monotony of BS?
John, I wish I had a mustard seed amount our your intelligence! God bless you!
"Somehow when Christ died on that cross, He was burring all the mess I've made. And He offers me, if I trust Him, that I can know here and now not waiting for judgement. Because it depends on Him and not me"
John is great tool of our Lord Jesus Christ. I being Pakistani Christian wish to meet John and ask him if I can work with him to bring the material in Urdu language. I live in UK and willing to invite him at my place or I can go and visit him in UK. May God bless him and use him more and more in the days to come.
Wisdom and humility pervade all your talks, Dr Lennox. My husband and I love listening to you
Ouio
Lennox has the perfect personality for debating such a controversial topic. Even Atheists can't dislike him even if they want to.
Except maybe Peter Atkins
Thank you Prof Lennox!
I am supporting my 27 year old son, diagnosed with a horrid diagnosis, with horrendous pain day and night, ‘utterly overwhelming’. I can’t understand where God is in all of this; but, I see evidence of His fingerprints throughout the process, letting me know that in the deepest darkest pain, He is with us: this is an enormous consolation to me, and gives me the emotional resilience to support my son. ❤️
‘Football: it’s a series of prayer meetings interrupted by war’ 😂🤣
‘When you take weapons to defend a religion, you cat the ears off people: They won’t listen to you’
‘Is there any evidence anywhere that there is a God that we can trust with that mixed picture?’. Faced with beauty and barbed wire.
There is evidence. This is where I find that Christianity gives a window
Forgiveness in Greek ‘letting go’.
Faith means trust based on evidence.
Bless you and your son. So sorry you’re both going through this. I hope God continues to comfort you and guides you both in His love.
I am so sorry you are going through this time of deep difficulty and suffering - both you and your beloved son.
I too am in pain - from a Road Traffic Accident in 1985 - and I believed God would take this pain away: But I've come to know that God doesn't work that way any longer KJV 2 Tim 4:20.
Your son and I will suffer until the day we go to be with the Lord; but we both need help, comfort and assurance from our loved ones as I am sure you are giving.
In future times we will look back and think this was but for a moment Rom chapter 8. Many blessings.
God help us bear the pain that does not seem to go away...
Soooooo Awesome.... to hear a proudly unashamed christian AND Intellectual man speak Christ Glorified !! ❤AMEN ❤
I have just discovered John Lennox today. He is a great inspiration and has helped me in my faith, belief and understanding of God. Thank you Mr. Lennox.
Humanity at it’s Best!!
I believe!
Amazing. The one who has God has peace in him. That is what I saw in John Lennox. Thank God for you.
He is the greatest! So humble and truthful! Thank you God for John Lennox ! A true apostle.
Amen to that!
He seems like someone coming right out of a Dickens or Irving novel. And in a good way :)
Haha! Exactly! He's like the Irish grandpa you never knew you wanted
not really, he's an idiot - his talent is apparently being able to fool people who want to be fooled.
Beautiful, thank you Dr. Lennox.
God sometimes appears to be silent during crises - but actually these are ways to allow people who otherwise would not draw close to God - to draw close to Him! Oh, the incomprehensible wisdom of God!
You can never enjoy pleasure if you have never experienced hurt. We can't have daylight if we don't have night. The two go hand in hand.
Listening in 2020, how the face of universities and debate is changing. Not all open to debate now!
Stanford has been destroyed by the left. An example of toxic secularism.
i am a Muslim, but I love listening to him
❤o God is the centre of you ❤
I always listen to John. To his marvellous words spoken in his wonderful Irish accent.
Me, too. Do you know of Kristyn Getty of the married Christian-singer duo Keith & Kristyn Getty (e.g., 'In Christ Alone', 'There Is A Higher Throne', etc.)? Well, Kristyn's maiden name is Lennox. Guess who her uncle is? (Yes, really.) th-cam.com/video/qLy8ksqGf9w/w-d-xo.html
Closer than you could ever imagine!!!!!!!!!
Great information to think about ,as a Christian
Christians are not required to think. Indeed, thinking is considered quite bad for your "faith".
You could not be a christian if you were personally instructed by old josh hisself
The really fascinating consideration, in listening to Dr. Lennox, as with a handful of other brilliant men that God uses....., is that the knowledge, ability to convey his messages, and his strength and personality..., are ALL emanating from his spirit...., which is where the Creators Spirit has met with him, and imparted to him..the things which he shares. Dr. Lennox....like all of us, who will empty ourselves for service....is a yielded vessel.
Check out Frank Turek if you haven't. He communicated very well on a level you can understand and answers a lot of unique, but very difficult questions.
One of the most brilliant Christian mind...
This helped me wake up today
The truth full with understanding
Just shall live by faith
Great speech and a great speaker. I don't have his beliefs and I am not a Christian but enjoy listening to him nonetheless.
I'm very impressed with your open-mindedness. A lot of people on either side are so close-minded to any other ideas. Try listening to Frank Turek. He's really good and answers a lot of really, really difficult questions that are unique and not the usual things you'd hear.
@@Joshua-ev9uw Thank's for your kind words and recommendation about Frank.
Thank you for all.
May you be well.
Classic! Frank. Brutally honest.
My man! Appreciate what you do and how you do it.
He's great!
Sir John Lennox ; you are a, very special Christian Scientist chosen by our Lord.
Many of my questions I was sitting with, are answered totally or partially. Thank you very much. 🎉
❤ frailty thy name is women ❤
We need Christ to be righteous, our righteousness is in Jesus (alone) not in ourselves. We can not account for all of our sins, it is impossible. Be Christ righteous not selfrightous.
Luke 10:27 💝
Thank you for sharing your perspective.
GOD bless you all
America hasn’t forgotten God, she has REJECTED Him.
❤ guilty conscience needs no excuse ❤
Love this
So very interesting to listen to.
Amazing .
Wonderful talk
Blessed is the one who acknowledges our Creator and Her wonders, and who confesses that She is not to be questioned about what She does.
Mirzah Husayn Ali
Love this guy
❤ and i keep a deep space between you and 911
Thank you for sharing!
He reminds me of a kind genius Santa Clause. He is so brilliant and logical.
🤣
❤ Jesus is the centre of Christianity ❤
I agree this is a good question. As a Christian I have prayed over and over for God to help with me with my home. My home is literally falling apart. Roof needs replacing and flooring also. So I reached out to my church to ask if anyone knew how to get a government grant. I got... I'll or we'll pray for you. They claim to be a generous church... that's possible but I've noticed it doesn't apply to me. They've helped others in the church...even took up money for people in Ukraine. I find it funny that I am literally here and I am on desperate need and they know it yet for what ever reason I am not worth helping. That in all honesty is why people leave a church.
God and organized religion are not the same thing.
Somebody said god and organized religion are not the same thing. That just shows that this god can only suggest conduct but not command. He does not even stir kindness in the hearts of his "believers". Like god, like believers. Get out of that church! And, try to find people who are kind and willing to help, unlike the hypocrites who are a copy of their useless god.
I’m sorry to hear this happened. Let’s all look up to our future hope, Jesus Christ. We all sin and fall short of Glory. The lord is not like us and we trust him no people. May the lord our God help our heart to love and help our sisters and brothers.
Thanks for sharing ur ideas....
15:00 John Lennon "Imagine".
15:59 Russian intellectual "Here's the mistake we made we thought we could get rid of God and retain the value of human beings.
21:45 "A Secular Age" by Charles Taylor
34:35 Who who is the lawyer he listened to in Cambridge giving evident about Jesus ?
35:18 "Gunning for God" by John C. Lennox
39:03 Oxford motto Dominus Illuminatio Mea is usually translated as 'the Lord is my light'.
39:59 END
Question
43:35 Forgiveness has 2 meanings: 1) to let go; 2) letting go of perpetrator who must repent.
47:55 Christopher Hitchens underwent experimental treatment from Dr Francis Collins.
48:10 "Faith of Christopher Hitchens" by Larry Taunton
51:35 Transformation of young man's life.
53:15 Comparing the 'test results' (ie. fruits) of Christianity and atheism.
55:52 What is Faith ?
56:55 A few years ago John Lennox was within mS of death.
1:02:31 The leading atheist in the world Thomas Nagel.
1:03:56 He speaks German and Russian.
1:06:21 The Abolition of Man - by C. S. Lewis
Superb.
Dankie dat jy darem vir die mense wyssig
Good stuff!
Faith is the substance of mankind love friendship s
Job[e] said: The Almighty's arrows are in me, and I drink their poison...I cry out to him, and he stares at me...All day long he pursues me like a leaf....
Job got taken for a ride, Dude. That wasn't nice of the big guy.
Very deep thinker, that in turn makes us think.
That's so easy I'm not even a college student and I know that where u have a difficult time and a little struggle is where you learn the most, and I give that answer bcuz everybody doesn't have a college education but, like I said, if it's difficult u will learn from whatever it is one way or the other.
Fairh is knowing that nothing is impossible possible with God and iti isn't. ❤
After listening to many different viewpoints on the reason for suffering and evil, my one thought is that God allows a certain amount of suffering which maximizes the good and promotes the highest level of overall happiness for mankind. That is to say, if there was less suffering, overall happiness would decrease at a greater rate than the equivalent amount of suffering reduction.
Not your best thought then? 🤗😜🤔🤣
I have zero interest in debate.
As an old man, and a new convert to Christianity, it’s my humble conclusion that God is not highly interested in seeing His adopted children experience much happiness here on planet earth.
Of course, that’s after only a cursory study of the lives of His followers in both Old and New Testaments.
@@joewright9879 your wrong, don't worry, it's not a debate anymore. We figured it out while you were out being converted... Thanks though. Appreciate the call back
Wow, the amount of mental gymnastics you put yourself through to convince yourself that God 1. Exists and 2. allows suffering for a good reason yet is still all loving is quite scary. You should be in a mental asylum ahahahaha.
If god truly is all powerful though, surely he could accomplish his goals in such a way as to inflict zero suffering on the innocent as well as achieve his desired result. It seems odd to me that a perfectly morale being would say "sure there are other ways I could do this, but who cares if people suffer as a byproduct". Why intentionally cause suffering and then blame the people you made suffer for it. I just cant square that with all loving, omnipotent, perfectly morale God.
St Maximilian Kolbe was starved to death in a nazi camp. He said
“For Jesus I am willing to suffer even more.”
And the dead Jesus didn't care.
@@schmetterling4477 when Jesus was on the cross he was asked by a thief
“Remember me when u come into your Kingdom.”
Jesus said
“This day u will be with me in Paradise.”
58:33. Wow that left me speechless😥
Sadly obviously not.
@@vhawk1951kl
I hope you watched the entire talk and not just post a comment and run.
God shows up, when we show up…
To thwart conflict that man started.
We are not the first persons to question God. That’s one reason I believe the Old Testament was given to us.
I am still struggling with the book of Job. 17:09
A very wise man
Isaiah 48:10 Behold, I have refined you, but not as silver; I have tested you in the furnace of affliction.
That’s a good verse. Thank you for that
The impersonal system also understood as god is not aware of any suffering. It just resonates to a particular wavelength.
Luv you pops Lennox! Thy utterance from thy mouth is ment to feed. Because, utterance has an Aim indeed. Most importantly utterance has a Foundation that can't be uprooted nor shaken but here to stay for good. To give reason to uttered words! Luv ya pops! Nothing is wasted but increased pops! Beloved remember thy FEETS is YESHUA Jesus's christ FEETS indeed. To some will say how nor why is my FEETS is YESHUA Jesus's christ FEETS? Why is that beloved? Open sincere conversations with God and to one another availeth much indeed! Your FEETS beloved. Specially FEETS resting upon 1st. Love God by recieving the outpouring of God's spirit. So you may know how truly vital to 2nd. Love thy neighbors as thyself truly without ceasing but with boldness and washing of FEETS of neighbors. Likewise, BOUNDERS of HANDS AND FEETS OF GIANTS. These SAME MINDS NOT ACCORDING TO GOD'S WILL AND BEST TRUE INTENT FOR OUR NEIGHBORS BELOVED. REMEMBER THE TRUE HOSTS UPON ALL THE TRIBES OF JUDAH ARE WASHERS OF FEETS OF NEIGHBORS. GO BACK TO THY FIRST LOVE.
God’s forgiveness is open to all, as ours must be, but without repentance, there is no reconciliation.
You mean he is threatening to torture you for eternity, first, and then expects you to beg for forgiveness? Give me a break, kid. That's what an abusive relationship looks like. :-)
Suffering is the mother's milk of wisdom
Back to jesus back to God.
You know we're in deep trouble when a video like this one. After 4 years has only 618 viewers .
But some stupid garbage has millions 🙄
God is in his people.
Suffer is unacceptible god must be god feel giver but not bad feel
God must be mercy
God doesn't make us sick or suffer
Come see me.
I like the reasoning in this Discussion, knowing Why we suffer, Why Does God allow Suffering ,and the Injustices in the earth,and Why so much in today's modern and SCIENTIFIC world? The Bible Book of James 4 verse 8 show We should "Draw close to God, AND HE WILL DRAW CLOSE TO YOU" James also wrote "when under trial,let no one say I am being tried by God , Why ? For with evil things God "CANNOT BE TRIED, NOR DOES HE HIMSELF TRY ANYONE " Did Jesus cause harm, or Evil to anyone in his 3.5 years of Teachings from his Baptism to his death and resurrection? Matthews account speaks Jesus own words Chapter 11:25-29 "I publicly praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and Intellectual ones and have revealed them to young children, Why does he use the term "young children " ? Only the Quality of Humility, Humble ones ,like Children, willing to learn, Teachable!, Hate, Racism, Nationalism, Religious hatred, is Taught is it not? ," Yes, O Father, because this is the way you approve." We have to get know his Father and Jesus, as the following verses tell us, the Now Reigning King Jesus in the Heavens said "no one can come to me ,Jesus, unless the Father Draws him ," The Father sees the Good and willingness to get to know him and his Son Jesus to get Refreshment in this time of extreme violence and Evils They Know what we are going through, the Appointed time is near ,We need Their Guidance through these Troubling Times---!
One disagreement- As Solzhenitsyn stated "85% of those in the highest leadership positions after the Bolshevik "Revolution" weren't Russian at all. Revelation 2:9.
Gee…..considering this is Stanford, the lighting is a bit dim or ordinary, the chairs seem a bit tight and uncomfortable, the audio recording is acceptable but not exceptional, plus there’s a slight echo as the invited speaker speaks.
As much as I utterly dislike him, it would be somewhat fun to discuss things and learn from him so long as we don’t have to disagree too much
The moderator asks a good question from the audience at about 59:35, he says "Does God suffer with us when we are feeling pain or does he sympathize with us"? John Lennox says "both". I'm guessing that refers to every single human being on the planet who just happens to be suffering the most intense torture one can possibly imagine. Lets imagine for a moment everyone who has suffered at the hands of a brutal torturer. Lets say the person being tortured has not accepted Christ as their savior, as I understand it, for not accepting Christ, once these people die in the most terrible circumstances, .. that torture goes on in some form in Hell. Is God still feeling their pain after physical death in eternal damnation ( for their choice of rejecting Christ), or does God simply forget about them?
That's based on an emotional appeal.
Greater Epistemology do you think there is a rational answer to the problem of evil from a Christian perspective?. I think from the atheists perspective we do have very credible reasons as to why there is so much terrible suffering in the world, whether it be natural disasters, wars, famines, or illness. We have very good answers as opposed to John Lennox clutching at straws and admitting that it's a huge problem for Christianity to answer.
bonnie43uk Writings on skeptical Theism.
Greater Epistemology ? Can you elaborate?
bonnie43uk Skeptical Theism. That's the position I'd take given evil. There's many writings on it.
32:23
We are in a fallen world. Mankind, deciding he should be his own ultimate authority will eventually fall into corruption. History shows that all great Godless figures, resort to that. Pain and suffering are meant to drive you to a final decision. Is there ultimate good or is there ultimate evil? If you are bent towards a world of mindless evolution, you should say "it doesn't matter", but the majority of these say "there can be no God if pain and suffering exist". With that postulation they are really saying "There is too much evil for a God to exist". That assumes that there is too much good also in a logical set of premises. You must know that by reason of one condition, the opposite condition does exist. If I am in extreme cold and travel to Hawaii to 85 degrees, do I carp "There is no extreme cold because I am in warmth". The lack of ultimate good does not negate it. The lack of ultimate evil does not negate it. Knowing these can we excuse an ultimate good? The presence of suffering and evil shows the better way of ultimate good. Suffering and pain magnify the need for the ultimate good. When you are driven to God by these two conditions, you must reject ultimate good being intellectually dishonest by saying "there is too much evil". Selah (Hosea 4:6).
I like 15:32.
I havent heard a satifactory ecplanation to this valid question ever. Men cant speak to it...its not in their experience capacity. I will just have to trust God.
No .
To substantiate my claim is enhanced the scripture from various parceges in it like Jeremiah 1: 5, which says before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee.
❤ life is a tale told by an idiots full of sound and fury signifies nothing ❤ and fools rush into it angels not ❤
If a Dorian grey can change his mind seeing colour if an Oscar Schindler can save millions a god is not needed to love but wonder full mind ❤
I'm sorry for Mr. Hitchens but We all have to be brought to account for our lives, Am I Innocent, no but I certainly don't convince people of something opposite of what we all feel inside, and if you were born not feeling that there's something greater than Humans, I think it's then that you should start worrying.
Listening to Lennox is true suffering and if god existed he would have put a stop to it.
I have a deep appreciation for Mr. Lennox, however, saying true Christians aren’t involved in violence - perhaps more context is needed - because fighting tyranny, for justice, for religious freedom, and other good IS Christian.
i was at a mcdonald's a couple of months or weeks ago, where i felt i saw dr. lennox as a mid-aged taiwanese man
Yes, just where is this guy?
If God exist, bring him to the next interview, as symple as that.
The reason that suffering and evil exist because of love. God could have created a world without them but then we only know one side of the coin which is good. If we want to know about the other side of the coin which is bad, then we really have to suffer to understand about others pain, and suffering so that we would not cause others to suffer and hurt because of our own actions. We could have destroyed others who cause us the pain and suffering, but we choose to coexist with them because of love. Earth has always been Heaven from the start, but most of us think that Heaven is somewhere else far far away. We would all be resurrected one day to live on Earth again, a Paradise or Heaven in which all of us will live in peace and harmony, and we will never cause others to suffer or hurt because of our own actions and that we will live and flow with God until eternity. Why do we need God? It is because God is very powerful and He can teach us many things beyond the human capacity and we can teleport, levitate, fly, travel and explore many places in the universe with Him until eternity.
Though even we Christians err a lot in our teaching in various places. The only church that I come to know teaches much truth is the Chrch of Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day saints where we understand the answers to many many questions asked.