Is The Hawk BETTER Than The Pan?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ม.ค. 2023
- Today I'm comparing the drywall hawk VS the drywall pan. Which one do you prefer when you're mudding? Check out my other favorite drywall tools here 👉🏼geni.us/lZ2WE (Amazon) Be sure to leave your questions and comments below. For important links CLICK SHOW MORE ⬇⬇⬇⬇⬇⬇⬇⬇⬇⬇⬇⬇⬇⬇⬇⬇⬇
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You got me using the hawk and trowel from one of your older videos on my room remodel a couple years ago. Worked fantastic. I will never use the pan and taping knife again. No way. Thanks a million Jeff.
U are the Rodney Dangerfield of taping to professional drywall finishers
I would admit u don't have to hire a professional taper your skills are good enough for your own home but it took u all g time to get as good as u are and u still are not as good as a real professional finisher and if a home owner with no skills just used your taping methods he would shoot himself after he thought he was done and painted his work
Same, I’m a landlord who used to hire out ALL air his mud/taping because I hated working with that dumbass pan. Now I refuse to hire it out because I’m picky about how it looks and I’m good at it.
wht about.....knife and hawk?
So someone who hasn’t used a tool for about 30 years prefers another tool that they use every day. Mind blowing 🤯
Should definitely watch someone who is good with a pan and knife do it before randomly trying it and doing it the most inefficient way
Honestly who puts the 45 in first in before the water
@@ProRobocopTVLess dust that way.
As a DIY’er who is not doing this work everyday, the hawk was not difficult to learn to use and honestly I will never go back to the pan. Thanks Jeff for your amazing videos and inspiration!
One thing that is a major advantage for the pan is if I'm doing small drywall repairs and need a small batch. I use a paint stirring paddle in a drill and mix it in the pan, occasionally scraping the sides with my 4" knife to get all the dry mixed in until I get it SILKYYYYYY SMOOOOOOTH. Way faster than hand mixing. The other thing is being in an already-finished space where you absolutely, positively, do not want to drop mud anywhere in any way whether it be working with your tools or while heading to the sink to clean up. They both have their place in my opinion and that's why I own and use both 🤷
Now do "brushing my teeth" but in jive like the movie "Airplane"
Agreed. Hawk and trowel blows away the pan and knife, but the pan and knife is better for a few certain things.
Google "Mud n More Mix Ball" or use quart containers
One huge benefit to using the pan is you can put it down anywhere. Great when taping. Otherwise hawk all the way.
You could put the hawk on a stick if you need to switch, but for short transitions you could put it on its side as well.
@@schnitzel_city I used a bucket and drop it inside, there are other tricks of the trades when using them tools and need to put them down.
My hawk fits in the ladder hole or if your mud isn’t too runny you can lay it on it’s side for a minute or two
Steop ladder hole, bucket or clean it up before you set down
That's novel. Judging a tool by it's _not use_
Both tools are good. When drywall came out some painters became drywallers and some plasterers became drywallers. The hawk and towel were in use by plasterer people so they just kept using what they knew. Painters adapted the pan and knife because it was similar to the paintbrushes they were already use to. Different geographic areas see use of predominantly one system but either can work great.
I use both in commercial construction. The hawk and trowel is great but you need a lot of space to use it. Some commercial jobs you're confined in a small space with plastic walls or 3 other trades working next to you. I can tuck the pan right next to my body and work. Just like anything it takes practice to get good.
I use a pan and 4" knife to do all my taping and use the hawk and trowel to coat everything. I also go around with a pan and knife for touchups. I agree the trowel coats your tape/joints better than the larger knives. I grew up using pan/knife and starting using the hawk and trowel a few years back. So now I am a hybrid!
My preferred method is knife with hawk. Works really well and feels more natural than a trowel for me
This is without a doubt the best channel for DIY and professionals. I just got a hawk and I love it. I wish I could spend a month being his helper i would work for free!
Thanks 👍and Cheers!
the takeaway is to use whatever tools gets the job done to the required level of satisfaction. As Vancouver Drywaller says "its not how you get it on the wall but how you take it off that counts"
I've recently been doing a lot of drywall repair on my house. I was a complete novice at first. I mean plastic-knife, scooping-it-out-of-the-bucket-and-right-onto-the-wall kind of novice. After watching a ton of TH-cam instructional videos, I'm now doing things more-or-less right. I'm certainly still a novice, but I've come a long way in about 3 months or so.
So, speaking as a novice who has no intention of making this my day job, I will say I find the knife and pan MUCH easier to learn and get good results with. I did buy the hawk and trowel first and gave it a shot based on videos like this suggesting it's vastly superior. Unfortunately, I found the trowel very awkward. I just couldn't stop getting ridges and I couldn't smooth thing out sufficiently. Eventually, when needing to skim coat walls I that had removed wallpaper from, I decided give Vancouver Carpenter's paint roller mud-application technique a shot, which is best complemented with a knife and pan. So I decided to break down and buy them. Turns out I hate rolling on mud (just doesn't work for me, and it's very messy), but I quickly came to prefer the knife and pan, not just for skim coats, but everything. While I agree the hawk is more comfortable to hold, I find its actually messier than the pan. I have to work harder to keep it from falling off, and unless I am super careful when wiping the trowel or small knife clean, there's always something on the edge, waiting to drip off. Additionally, mixing quickset in the pan is much easier and cleaner, in my experience. Overall, I've just been much happier and less frustrated with the knife and pan. And if there's anything I've learned about drywall, its that you have to be patient, and getting frustrated always leads to a bad result.
I don't want to say that anything in this video is wrong. I actually agree the hawk and trowel is probably superior in the hands of an experienced professional. But that's the thing; I'm not an experienced professional, and neither are the majority of the people watching these videos. I'm just a new homeowner trying to repair a house so I can move in. And from this perspective, the large knife and pan has been a much better option. I will continue to give the hawk and trowel a go. I'm replacing drywall in a closet this weekend that was damaged by a (now fixed) leak around the chimney. This will be a good opportunity to give it a try taping fresh drywall rather than just taping patches, repairing dings, and skim-coating walls.
I think it is definitely a kind of personal use that makes certain tools better. I haven't really done a lot of big patchwork or new hangs. Just small repairs, and like someone else said it helped me get better with different knife sizes. But you recently got me to try the hawk because it looked so much better for taping and I had a larger repair coming up. I can honestly say I used to feel like I really sucked at taping and filling with a 9" knife. Trowel was 10x better for that.
My new Premium Nelaflix 12x4.3 Trowel just arrived. Thank you for the recommendation. Even though I've been drywalling for over 40 years, I sure enjoy watching somebody else do it.
Have always used a hawk since I was 18, absolutely love it over a pan!
That is awesome!
You got me to switch to a hawk and trawl over a year ago with your prior videos - just so much easier when applying mud - I just wish I would have switched sooner! Cheers!
Also, cleaning the pan is super fast and easy with a bucket of water and a long handle brush (the ones everybody uses for cleaning concrete tools). And you wipe off contaminated mud on the outside edge of the pan to keep it seperated from clean mud.
Seeing you using the other knife and pan should give you an insight how a lot of us DIY people feel. A bit clumsy, know how it's supposed to work in theory but havnt used it in years. Good video
I have a pancake spatula the exact width of the pan that I use for mixing. Works great! That said I agree with the shortcomings.
Used a hawk since I saw you use it years ago. Much better. Thanks !!
Glad it helped!
I've been considering transitioning from my bread pan/9" knife to a hawk/trowel. This video sells me on the hawk. I do a lot of skimming in rentals after walls are damaged. I've found my knife doesn't fill well, & biomechanically my knife is sometimes awkward. Mixing a volcano may take some practice. Thank you for another quality video.
my trowel is Belgian and I love it and the hawk is the same manufacturer (made in Taiwan) . they have lasted me 15 years of continuous use. Bless!
I just realized Jeff's first point yesterday while using a mason finishing trowel for the first time on the wall - super super great to use (way better than using a long flat knife from what I remember) however it doesn't fit into the mud pan. The mud needs scooped onto the wall, then you can spread it. It's also hard to mix the mud in the pan with a trowel. Next bigger project in the house, I'll probably buy a hawk...my finishing is pretty much done though in the room I'm in.
I switched to setting mud on your advice, and never went back to pre-mixed. I also made my own mini- hawk out of a... trowel...and use a taping knife on it and mix my mud in the pan. My mini-hawk stands by itself and it's so much more ergonomic and clean. Thanks.
The home hardware sticker on the pan is everything.
I use the pan for just home stuff when I want to add water to my mix. It is just an easier way for me to mix things up. I can see the Hawk being better for the pro.
Just noticed how my 3 favorite home reno channels are all from Canada.
Cheers!
As someone who doesn't do this often, and has not done any big drywall work ( only repairs ), the pan works pretty well . easy and fast to mix the stuff in the pan. If doing a lot of it , especially on a pro level I imagine it would be a different story hehe.
I have a hawk on order for a project I am doing, really excited. It just looks more efficient
You got me thinking about drywall work, and seeing you use the hawk peaked my interest. I had only seen pans used, but the way you used the hawk seemed sooo nice. With a little research, I learned that it's an old debate among drywallers. Watching you work and having held a pan before, I can't understand why anyone would prefer a pan. It puts so much stress on your hand, I don't get it. Are pan people just scared of losing the mud or something? Definitely going to get a hawk when the time comes and try to learn how to use it
right out the bakery😀😁Thank you, Man! I'm convinced now. Hawk, it is!
Coincidently, I was having this exact debate with someone today, the day this video came out. I bought both tools to try out and see which I like better. So far, I'm leaning towards using a hawk for small fills of hot mud, and using the pan for large fills of all purpose and taping.
I had never done a ceiling before until yesterday, i used the hawk and it took me like less than an hour to finish it. Never need anything else!
I'm team Hawk all the way. Think about it like this .Treat drywall mud like its non sandable plaster of paris on lath. You want stuff on the wall fast so you can smooth it out cleanly before it starts to harden. If you do that you end up requiring less time sanding later. Who would you say is more skilled a drywall taper or a professional plasterer. If you said a plasterer, well they use a hawk and trowel. Also look at the stucco guys, same thing... Hawk and Trowel.
To each their own. Both methods will get the job done nicely. All about the experience. I am hawk and trowel guy. It's what I prefer. I'm a taper from Toronto.
I'm not even going to finish the video, I only do drywall occasionally but since I bought a hawk...wow does the job get done quick and easy.
Jeff I love your channel. I agree with you cleaning is a problem.
The hawk didn't work for me. I prefer the pan. I can make a small batch in the pan too. I put the powder on then add a small amount of water and let it sit for a minute to absorb. Comes out nice and smooth. Seejanedrill has a great video on it. But to each their own! Thanks for the videos. You always have great tips.
What is your preferred blade thickness for your trowel? Flex? If you could only have 1 trowel.
Help, anyone! I’ve seen Jeff use the Hawk that holds tools and I’ve checked out the drywall tools on the Amazon page (as well as locally) but I cannot find the Hawk, does anyone have a link?
I think it was the church reno where a small wall was mudded and I was sold on the hawk but seeing them perform side-by-side is a great teaching method here so thanks. My ah-ha moment was when describing having pinholes in the mud using the blade and I realized I can do better. I now have more confidence in re-insulating walls and not to worry about the mudding! Jeff you’re brilliant and better than so many other of our perhaps more famous televised DIY/reno personalities. Never change!
The pan shines when you're wiping out tape (embedding) or mixing small batches of quickset. It's good for people newer to trade (homeowners), but they should still learn and become proficient with hawk and trowel. The pan is also a lot harder on your wrist, the knives as well can be hard on your wrist if used solely and for prolonged periods.
I applaud your attempt. All production guys I know use a hawk and trowel for everything except taping (Yes, even if you're using a bazooka, no idiot just leaves the tape sitting in the corners as is. You have to embed it/wipe it out.) and they'll use a pan/knife for pre-fill because if you know what you're doing, it's much faster.
Also you are using the knife wrong, you don't create pressure with your thumb. Regardless the size of the knife you use your index and sometimes middle finger to apply pressure to the back of the blade - while applying your compound. I would of hoped you'd known that considering I've seen you using 4"s.
Edit - on the subject of the fancy machines. They do just as good job finishing as if by hand. I do agree that they are definitely not for the home owner simply due to price and learning curve. The boxes you coat with, have blades on them (they work just as good a trowel and put mud on better than you can with a hawk/trowel). The bazooka, banjo, any other machine for slinging tape on, you have to embed them, wipe them out by hand, every time no matter what. Idk what kind of lazy doofuses you have around there, but that's not how we do it here.
Learning to initially commute by horse and buggy may seem easier/better if that all you've done your whole life, but learning to drive an actual car is far more superior, and I'm sure you drive some sort of automotive vehicle of some sort.
With all that said, I do enjoy your videos, you have a plethora of knowledge. Just wish there was a bit more understanding on your part.
Everyone, there was a scam artist on this comment, if you still see it, report it for unwanted commercial spam content.
Pan for taping hawk for finishing.
I suck at drywall but now I can blame at least a little bit of that on the tools I have used. Thanks! Time to go shopping...
I ended up using a 10" knife more than my 12" trowel because I'm still trying to get used to the trowel. I dropped a lot of mud early on with it. After watching this though... I might need to try it more because I think I run into a lot of the same issues with the 10" knife that you reported. Hawk all the way though. For those complaining about not being able to put the hawk down, just keep a small box handy. Open it and put the handle in... easy peasy. Otherwise just put it face down on the mud bucket.
Taping & patching. Pan all day.
Floating joints. Hawk & trowel
Thanks!
Cool video thanks
I am going to have to give the hawk a try. Always used a bucket. I'm not by any means an expert- my claim to fame before changing careers was cabinets, trim, hard wood flooring and framing but definitely have done a lot of mudding always the wrong way.
Cheers! You will love it
Tape, screws, small repairs pan, smoothing out joints and big repairs hawk. Always have the two handy. A novice who did a pretty perfect job with my basement
I've used all of the tools you showed except the pan. I love the hawk. It make things so easy. I can see problem with pan that you don't get to use all the mud in the pan. If you work all day and some gets harden and mixed into fresh mud and you will have serious problem. It may be OK for occasional patch up that you don't use more than 1 pan worth of mud.
How's the church reno coming Jeff? When do you start on the main level? Are you still doing the pool and outdoor area in the summer?
I'm going to take your suggestion on the trowel brand. I should get a new magnesium Hawk to go with it
Ok I was using a plastic mud pan and was gonna get a metal one but I’m gonna get me a hawk and trowel and just use the plastic pan as a backup. I was worried about not being able to set it down, lol. I’m going to go buy one now, apparently I’m gonna be doing a bit a more drywall again, might as well try it.
I can see your point. I use both but typically use the hawk (spelling?) when I’m doing Santa Fe skip trowel. Yes I’m in Florida. I’ll try your way next time. But this is all subjective since your just not used to it. If it gets the JOB done I’d hardly say it’s not professional. Cheers
The only issue I've had with the hawk is mixing joint compound is a bit stressful with no floor covering! Never used a pan and probably won't.
What’s the hawk with the trowel holder called? Can’t search for it on amazon and not in his drywall tools buylist link.
Edit: went throw previous videos, I think it’s called hawkmate $20 on amazon
where did you get the trowel? Nela makes carbon steel trowels as well, isn't that superior to what you are using?
What brand do you recommend for hawks and trowels?
nella trowels from germany. Marshalltown for the hawk and hawk buddy
@@HomeRenoVisionDIY thanks
@@HomeRenoVisionDIY who sells those in Canada?
I use a pan all the time. I gave up on the hawk as I was dropping mud all the time. Using the pan allowed me to focus on learning how to use various sized knifes. Which I can use rather well. When using a trowel (which I rarely do) the pan does not work well. Now there is a trick to using the trowel which I have not gotten over yet. You need to have a good one. On my trowels the rubber/plastic grip sometimes slips and rotates in my hand, ruining my pass. What I need to do is to throw them out and buy new ones.
Had never heard of a drywall hawk until I saw one of these videos a few years ago. Went out and bought one, never touched the pan again. I do like large taping knives, trowel is a little awkward for me still but the hawk is the way to go.
When you were talking about using pressure and using your thumb instead use your two finger in the blade it’s a lot easier I prefer a pan it’s just what I learned on and what I’m comfortable with but use your two fingers and have one side always
I've used Hawk for 35 years doing occasional diy. Everyone I knew used a hawk too. Never even knew about the tray until this year watching pro mudders on youtube like Vancouver Carpenter. Bought one and used it a bit, I can see it has a place but hawk definitely easier for me. I haven't trying using trowel yet. Guess I have more to learn.
Is your Nela trowel the SuperFlex or the one with the curved blade?
wish i wouldve seen this before trying my bathroom. oh well, i have 3 more bathrooms to do. and a house to do. thanks for these videos. 4:16
Great video..... Where did you find the Hawk with the plate under it to store your tools. Did you just add that yourself?
I need advice on how to water resist my Michigan basement built in the 1890s. The laundry is down there, I have installed exterior downspouts system, but would like to reasonably know I won't get big amount of drippy walls. Every contractor has given me a different "solution" with no reasoning behind each option.
Jeff, can you post a link for that particular hawkmate?
Yup I’m getting myself a hawk! 👍🏻
Do you sand between coats of mud?
A hawk also makes it possible to use in tandem with every kind of mud spreading tool there is. You can actually apply mud with a corner trowel and its much faster than doing it with a knife b/c you can apply mud to both sides of the corner at once. Most people apply the mud with a knife, clean excess off the edges with a knife, then switch to the corner trowel to smooth and feather the mud in the corner but you can actually do all of that with the corner trowel alone but only if you use it with a hawk b/c you can coat your corner trowel with mud on a hawk because its flat. But trying to do that with a mud pan is pretty much impossible b/c of the walls of the mud pan keep you from being able to dip it in the mud. Another nice thing about a hawk is if you only want to coat half of your knife b/c coating the entire width of your knife would be too much, the hawk makes it possible to do that also. When you lay out all the pros/cons, to me the hawk is a clear winner but if you're brand new to drywall mud/taping, you might want to start off with a pan just to keep from making a mess.
This is why I bought a hawk with a 4” knife & a 14” trowel. Easy to mix, clean & carry. I’ve seen pros using the pan & various knives which I believe has 5 different size knives. Definitely wouldn’t work at my elder age. Plus the hawk catches the mess if it drips. Three tool for less cost than the pan & knives which is at least 6 tools.
What is that underneath your hawk that you use to store your tools?
He called it a "hawkmate". Just do a google.
With the knife I put my index and middle finger on the opposite dude for pressures and for flex on opposite sides.. never used a hawk but also not opposed to it
9:46 realized he does it the same way with the knife😅
For running mud i prefer the pan and for running dryvit i prefer the hawk. I worked in drywall for 18 years out of the 34 years in construction
Would love to see a review on those skimming blades
I have used a pan with 4,6,8,and 12 inch knives. My work improved after switching to a hawk and trowel and I stopped wearing a wrist brace on my pan hand after switching to a hawk. Plus my hand would get numb from holding the pan; nothing about using a mud pan is agronomic friendly.
You need a 3 inch knife in the pan, I had to grind one to be just under 3 inch and then you can mix and clean well. The 8 inch taping knife works well on the hawk, the trowel gets uncomfortable in some angles.
the knives and "drywall trowels" can be curved too, just to add confusion. If found the curved trowel hard to get used to after using a masons one, but getting there. easier to fill as before I used a taping knife and switched to the trowel due to general lack of good maintenance of my own body. 2 fingers on the back side of the blade for pressure control, don't like them above an 8" and can do a proppa' job with a trowel once you get to them larger sizes of knife blades. In fact I could possibly butter my bread better with a trowel than a could a knife.
watching you handle the pan and trying to empty it... getting major informercial vibes 😂
i remember when you said in the tools video you buy new impact driver around every year can we see the drivers
Used the hawk for the first time...could barely open my hand today. Arthritis?
16:16 reminds me of videos of people making dough for fresh pasta
Interesting, used a knife a pan my whole life. Never knew it was done differently.
Another thing that can save you from 1 or possibly 2 coats of mud is using the USG Plus 3 (blue lid) instead of green lid all purpose when your applying the layers of mud above the tape. USG +3 has 35% less shrinkage than AP mud. When you see it wet on the wall, it will be look like that when you come in the next morning b/c theres hardly any shrinkage. When you apply AP mud, it may look like thats gonna be your last coat of mud (while its wet) but you come in the next morning and you notice you can still see a little bit of outline of your tape that you couldn't see the day before. Thats how bad that stuff shrinks and had you used blue lid, it really would have been your last coat. Its a huge time saver in 2 ways - 1) very low shrinkage/few coats of mud 2) sands literally twice as fast as AP so thats another huge area you're gonna save time.
The arm pronation needed to hold a pan cause some pretty severe paon after holding it for more than 10 min. The hawk has been a game changer for me!
Is your Nela trowel curved or is it flat?
FLAT!
I used the Hawk because it's cooler
Funny how much he hates the pan :). I've used both for DIY type projects. Finally got used to the hawk. Took me a while.
You can't compare 2 methods when you only know one of them. I'm a commercial taper in Toronto and I use both. They both have their advantages and disadvantages. Btw you can fill a bead with a knife. Coincidentally I challenged another taper on my site just yesterday who thinks like you with respect to filling bead. I won. Otherwise...I like your channel.
All me Jeff let a real pro show u how to mix durabond in a pan Jeff u are a God to homeowners who know nothing about taping but union pros we love to watch your videos on taping when we need a good laugh 😂
I saw you using a Hawk in 2018 right after I bought a pan and I was like, why did I buy this? Bough a hawk and never looked back.
I use all of those tools. The pan holds my clean knives and trowels while the hawk is my mud medium. I have two or three large mud jobs a year and skills are perishable. Knives have their roll as does the trowel. When I teach I always make pan to hawk converts on clean up alone. Both while you work and beer thirty. One thing I have learned over the years is that "Stainless" ISN'T. I have a small roll around scaffold that has a 5 of water with a couple of drops of Dawn, a sponge and a shop towel on the lower rung. On the upper is a pan to hold the clean tools and a can of WD-40. At the end of the day everything is washed down and a mist of WD then wiped dry. It takes a couple of minutes and we're out the door. I always buy the new guy a basic set. Nothing fancy, just a hawk, various knife widths and a trowel. Some of those guys are still, ten, twenty years later, using those same tools. Again, we don't finish on a weekly basis but, Warms the heart.
I always wondered why someone would use that flat hawk over the pan. I'm still team pan though
The big advantage to the trowel is your hand ends up much closer to the drywall which is whats gives you so much control. That 12” knife is nearly impossible to properly control and to apply the proper pressure for smooth application. Rigid trowel all the way!
I’ve been tapping since I’m 15 I’m now 39 I’ve tapped with hawks and trowels and pans and knives personally I’m faster and more comfortable with a pan and a knife you just have to know how to manage your tools it’s all about how you keep your fingers and pressure again more comfortable in my opinion with a pan and knives from the biggest of jobs to the smallest of patches just my thoughts
So, whatever you are accustomed to is the best method?
2:18 let’s do a couple lines and see how it works 😂
I used a mud bucket just once. It was too much work to clean it. Now it's it just holds stuff.
I purchased a cheap hand mixer for less than $15, put it on slow speed and it whips up a pan of quickset in no time and easier to clean the removable blades in my slop bucket. When I say purchased, I mean I ended up getting the wife a new mixer for the kitchen....😀