I wouldn't have as much of a problem with the ridiculous carrying capacity of hornets if it wasn't for the fact that even if you do land a skilled shot and take them out, they can just pull another fully kitted esf for free and fly back to you in 20 seconds endlessly, until they finally get you. So many occasions where you kill an enemy tanker, and in under a minute they are back with a hornet esf. Even if you have air support, or anti air, they can bail out as a light assault and get away, facing no real punishment for their playstyle, or after they bail, they can continue attacking you with c4 and rocklet closing the gap with impulse grenades.
Hornets are crap though; as evidenced by the fact you could out repair it hitting you in the backside. Then you just turned around and AP'd the ESF in 1 shot.
There was a glorious time where you could wombo combo a tank to the rear with 2 hornets, some nose gun during the reload, and two more hornets. You could pick off one tank at a time from tunnel visioned tank squads. Two or three nerfs later, you have this thing that barely grinds down one unsupported tank. Just one other player attacks the ESF - lock-ons, flak - and they'll be dead before they finish off the tank. I don't even try to kill tanks with A2G unless they're already smoking.
@@themosh54 Every time I'm in a fight where the base is overwhelmed and we're forced into the spawn room, I get my AV mana turret out and shoot down ESFs. The people who brainlessly camp the spawn room with A2G nose guns are pretty easy to shoot down.
Hornets seem good but you have to guide those suckers in leaving you as one of the most enticing targets to tanks within half a kilo of you. That why i use rocket pods, fire and move.
Make hornets more like halberd, with nerfed ammo capacity and reload, maybe higher damage per mag? When I'm piloting in a situation like in this video, I expect to get shot down quickly
I know this post is kinda old, but of all the secondaries you could equip on the ESF, I feel like hornets were the only ones that were somewhat balanced, at least when I used them. Anti repair missiles and coyotes were way too powerful, literally solo'ing with no effort any air target. And the other ones were so bad it was almost impossible to get a kill unless the enemy had the IQ of an headless monkey. Lock-ons not hitting targets and wyrms taking 40 seconds of shooting for one kill. Hornets at least leave you in that vulnerable hovering downward position in exchange for decent damage. I think the issue isn't really inherent to hornets though, he could've just shot with the nose gun to annoy you for 10 minutes as well, result would've been the same, waste of time repairing and shooting for both side ): At least I can respect you for not carrying a ranger and instantly killing him with no effort simply because he looked in your general direction.
This is a good point. I used to carry the shield umbrella often, since it would absorb a hit or two from missiles/daltons. It's nice to have, but at some point my preference shifted to a deployable flash and C4.
I am thankful for every hornet that attacked me for not being a Liberator who attacked me (in Prowler). One of crew members repairs, the other uses Archer + the chance to 1hit them after mistake which you have mentioned. This is somewhat fair in contrast to a Liberator attack.
I used to use hornets and I loved them. What made me stop using them? I uninstalled the game because I couldn't find people to play with and in general how there is just way too many veteran or good players pretty much only on VS and TR.
Of all the AT esf weapons, hornets are the weakest. Also, does the irony not reach you that you complain of his endless shooting, but he's probably complaining about your endless out-repairing? If you couldnt kill anyone with your tank despite constantly hitting them, I think you'd have a problem with that.
You address a very good point that I failed to cover with the video. Shooting a target with an endless supply of repairs is just as frustrating as getting shot with an endless supply of missiles. If I had were to 'remake' the video, I would put an emphasis on how ridiculous the interactions between tanks and ESFs truly are. It's not just a problem with Hornets; Almost all A2G weapons have had their damage nerfed into the floor, while their ammo capacity gets bloated to compensate for the crummy damage output. This causes air attacks to last until either someone runs out of ammo, or someone gets impatient and flies too low. Unfortunately, this seems to be the trend with a lot of recent balancing decisions. A lot of weapons are getting nerfed until they are no longer effective. This is strange to me, since EFFECTIVE weapons and strategies are typically the most FUN. There are ways to balance things without ever touching the damage output. Planes should hit harder and fly faster. Tanks should last longer and move slower. Rocket launchers should 1 shot other infantry. Dalton rounds should 1-shot infantry with splash. Flak armor should not allow anyone to survive direct hits from tank shells. Vehicle weapons should have headshot multipliers. TANK SHELLS should have headshot multipliers. Ammo printer shouldn't exist. The list goes on. Overall, balance is a complicated topic, and no single solution will be able to satisfy everyone to the same degree. I'm obviously biased in favor of vehicles, so of course I'm going to get annoyed when infantry are able to blow up tanks with a dinky little sidearm crossbow shooting exploding pencils. Regarding JUST the Hornet missiles, I think should hit WAY harder while carrying WAY less ammo. They should be able to kill tanks in 3-4 shots, and should have a "magazine" size of 4 (and no more than 4 in reserve, for 8 Missiles total), and a lengthier reload time. I am now realizing the MOUNTAIN of text I just generated. TL;DR game has some ridiculous weapon design.
"Of all the AT esf weapons, hornets are the weakest." I'm sorry, what? XD hornets are basically flying, steerable decimator on a 2-3s cooldown, they're the best AV an ESF has, the only competition is Wyrm, which along with high exposure time lose a lot of their dps because of the crazy long reload.
@@RaptorJesus. the other ones are better because they can easily force the driver into the vehicle or kill them with splash which is always more effective than fighting with dps vs repairs
@@drjooce This was how they were until the Combat Upgrade patch which was made by Wrel (an infantry player, who unilaterally decided that everybody else should be an infantry player too).
I liked the time when Hornets had higher DPS than a Lightning AP, now Hornets are only almost as fast at killing tanks as a Lightning AP.. with guided shots, mounted as a secondary weapon on a flying vehicle. Seems fair and balanced, where is my Skyguard-secondary on my Lightning? At least the recent patch for the test server has a few nerfs to LOOOONG-time criminals, MAXes and Banshee/Airhammer. Gives me a tiny bit of hope that some 10 year old debts might still yet be paid and we could possibly get a G2A weapon that is not a wet noodle.. one day before the game shuts down or something. As pilots are often seen saying, even one in these comments, the game is a combined arms game so people should not complain about aircraft being godchariots. Perhaps just maybe we will finally be able to say the same to them, bring some combined arms to my G2A tank if you want to stop it from one sidedly dominating aircraft, surely aircraft should not be the only ones that are exempt from the need of combined arms right?
Do not get me wrong but prowler drivers should not complain about it... they can really 1 shoot you verry easy ... and just use an AA GUN and esf will just melt... i drive both of them an esf more on vanu side and prowler is meh... if you really have issue with an esf then you are doing something wrong..
Prowlers can't say a thing. It's so fkin anoying when you get sniped across the map by a prowler that is mounted and has the active ablitity for bonus bullet velocity. These are way worse than skyguards. Btw hornets did 1000 dg oer missile back in the day. That was awfull
Tanks can and do die, often, to infantry. ESF movement mechanics are so obscure, so unintuitive, and so full of engine exploits that the minimum bar of entry for becoming a pilot is to be trained by a seasoned professional. Those exploits are what allows good pilots to avoid 85% of anything that does meaningful damage to them. There are very few AA options to begin with, even fewer that don't rely on direct hits, fewer still that do meaningful damage if they ARE flak, and not a goddamn one that will actually function as a deterrent to someone who does know engine exploit maneuvers. ESF has every goddamn mobility advantage, and the only reason you don't see them in groups in every fight is because of the astronomical skill floor for learning how to fly.
@@carlodagunz you hit on every point 100% except the end. the real reason we dont see a group of skyknight esfs often is because a) the medium ("i can rev maneuver lmao") and up pilots recognize the actual danger to the air game if esfs murderball (3+), and b) those people usually are antisocial andys so naturally they do not like to share. 10k hours 99.9% lib and engineer pov. ^
@@housemana I'm not even talking about deathballs, I'm talking about pairs or trios. It only really takes a couple of skyknights to nuke sunderers. If everyone could reach the piloting skill to succeed at air to ground without someone teaching them how to exploit the flight mechanics, we'd see air tactics matter more often.
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I wouldn't have as much of a problem with the ridiculous carrying capacity of hornets if it wasn't for the fact that even if you do land a skilled shot and take them out, they can just pull another fully kitted esf for free and fly back to you in 20 seconds endlessly, until they finally get you. So many occasions where you kill an enemy tanker, and in under a minute they are back with a hornet esf. Even if you have air support, or anti air, they can bail out as a light assault and get away, facing no real punishment for their playstyle, or after they bail, they can continue attacking you with c4 and rocklet closing the gap with impulse grenades.
Tank players are so naively insulated to the vehicle balance overall
Hornets are crap though; as evidenced by the fact you could out repair it hitting you in the backside. Then you just turned around and AP'd the ESF in 1 shot.
Feel you. Vanguard Driver here. When their tanks fail 24/7 Hornetspammers are making me hide in a techplant or under a skywallshield. :(
It's always horrible when one of these pests comes buzzing around on the few times I pull an MBT without a walker.
There was a glorious time where you could wombo combo a tank to the rear with 2 hornets, some nose gun during the reload, and two more hornets. You could pick off one tank at a time from tunnel visioned tank squads.
Two or three nerfs later, you have this thing that barely grinds down one unsupported tank. Just one other player attacks the ESF - lock-ons, flak - and they'll be dead before they finish off the tank. I don't even try to kill tanks with A2G unless they're already smoking.
Atg in general is aids and the most satisfying thing in the game is shoving an AP round into an esf. If I could put 4 skyguards on a prowler I would.
Shooting them down with an AV Mana turret round or a deci is also very satisfying
@@themosh54 Every time I'm in a fight where the base is overwhelmed and we're forced into the spawn room, I get my AV mana turret out and shoot down ESFs. The people who brainlessly camp the spawn room with A2G nose guns are pretty easy to shoot down.
@@sixten7920 its so fun, isn't it?
@@themosh54 Probably one of my favorite ways of shooting them down. I'm not just real great at it, but better than I am at hitting them with deci lol
@@sixten7920 Same 😁. Deci is the favorite but AV Mana is much easier
Love the editing and narration.
As an AV Mana Turret engi, I LOVE hornet users. They sit so still and eat those 1 hit KO rockets.
Hornets seem good but you have to guide those suckers in leaving you as one of the most enticing targets to tanks within half a kilo of you. That why i use rocket pods, fire and move.
Proud Hornet user here :D
Make hornets more like halberd, with nerfed ammo capacity and reload, maybe higher damage per mag? When I'm piloting in a situation like in this video, I expect to get shot down quickly
keep calling for nerfs and more people will leave the game. im only in the air. this is all i have to be useful for my team.
@@MuadDiiib I quit this game like 5 years ago after they nerfed hornets. I occasionally check back to see how retarded it is and wow lmao.
I have developed tactics where I just get out my esf and c4 😂
I know this post is kinda old, but of all the secondaries you could equip on the ESF, I feel like hornets were the only ones that were somewhat balanced, at least when I used them.
Anti repair missiles and coyotes were way too powerful, literally solo'ing with no effort any air target.
And the other ones were so bad it was almost impossible to get a kill unless the enemy had the IQ of an headless monkey. Lock-ons not hitting targets and wyrms taking 40 seconds of shooting for one kill.
Hornets at least leave you in that vulnerable hovering downward position in exchange for decent damage.
I think the issue isn't really inherent to hornets though, he could've just shot with the nose gun to annoy you for 10 minutes as well, result would've been the same, waste of time repairing and shooting for both side ):
At least I can respect you for not carrying a ranger and instantly killing him with no effort simply because he looked in your general direction.
that man's face glued to the screen. i love it.
Also can use a shield umbrella. Helps sometimes against liberator or those creatures.
This is a good point. I used to carry the shield umbrella often, since it would absorb a hit or two from missiles/daltons. It's nice to have, but at some point my preference shifted to a deployable flash and C4.
I am thankful for every hornet that attacked me for not being a Liberator who attacked me (in Prowler).
One of crew members repairs, the other uses Archer + the chance to 1hit them after mistake which you have mentioned. This is somewhat fair in contrast to a Liberator attack.
LOL the salt
I used to use hornets and I loved them. What made me stop using them? I uninstalled the game because I couldn't find people to play with and in general how there is just way too many veteran or good players pretty much only on VS and TR.
Could not agree with you more.
Of all the AT esf weapons, hornets are the weakest. Also, does the irony not reach you that you complain of his endless shooting, but he's probably complaining about your endless out-repairing? If you couldnt kill anyone with your tank despite constantly hitting them, I think you'd have a problem with that.
You address a very good point that I failed to cover with the video. Shooting a target with an endless supply of repairs is just as frustrating as getting shot with an endless supply of missiles.
If I had were to 'remake' the video, I would put an emphasis on how ridiculous the interactions between tanks and ESFs truly are. It's not just a problem with Hornets; Almost all A2G weapons have had their damage nerfed into the floor, while their ammo capacity gets bloated to compensate for the crummy damage output. This causes air attacks to last until either someone runs out of ammo, or someone gets impatient and flies too low.
Unfortunately, this seems to be the trend with a lot of recent balancing decisions. A lot of weapons are getting nerfed until they are no longer effective. This is strange to me, since EFFECTIVE weapons and strategies are typically the most FUN. There are ways to balance things without ever touching the damage output.
Planes should hit harder and fly faster. Tanks should last longer and move slower. Rocket launchers should 1 shot other infantry. Dalton rounds should 1-shot infantry with splash.
Flak armor should not allow anyone to survive direct hits from tank shells. Vehicle weapons should have headshot multipliers. TANK SHELLS should have headshot multipliers.
Ammo printer shouldn't exist. The list goes on.
Overall, balance is a complicated topic, and no single solution will be able to satisfy everyone to the same degree. I'm obviously biased in favor of vehicles, so of course I'm going to get annoyed when infantry are able to blow up tanks with a dinky little sidearm crossbow shooting exploding pencils.
Regarding JUST the Hornet missiles, I think should hit WAY harder while carrying WAY less ammo. They should be able to kill tanks in 3-4 shots, and should have a "magazine" size of 4 (and no more than 4 in reserve, for 8 Missiles total), and a lengthier reload time.
I am now realizing the MOUNTAIN of text I just generated.
TL;DR game has some ridiculous weapon design.
"Of all the AT esf weapons, hornets are the weakest." I'm sorry, what? XD hornets are basically flying, steerable decimator on a 2-3s cooldown, they're the best AV an ESF has, the only competition is Wyrm, which along with high exposure time lose a lot of their dps because of the crazy long reload.
@@RaptorJesus. the other ones are better because they can easily force the driver into the vehicle or kill them with splash which is always more effective than fighting with dps vs repairs
@@drjooce This was how they were until the Combat Upgrade patch which was made by Wrel (an infantry player, who unilaterally decided that everybody else should be an infantry player too).
I liked the time when Hornets had higher DPS than a Lightning AP, now Hornets are only almost as fast at killing tanks as a Lightning AP.. with guided shots, mounted as a secondary weapon on a flying vehicle. Seems fair and balanced, where is my Skyguard-secondary on my Lightning?
At least the recent patch for the test server has a few nerfs to LOOOONG-time criminals, MAXes and Banshee/Airhammer. Gives me a tiny bit of hope that some 10 year old debts might still yet be paid and we could possibly get a G2A weapon that is not a wet noodle.. one day before the game shuts down or something.
As pilots are often seen saying, even one in these comments, the game is a combined arms game so people should not complain about aircraft being godchariots. Perhaps just maybe we will finally be able to say the same to them, bring some combined arms to my G2A tank if you want to stop it from one sidedly dominating aircraft, surely aircraft should not be the only ones that are exempt from the need of combined arms right?
Do not get me wrong but prowler drivers should not complain about it... they can really 1 shoot you verry easy ... and just use an AA GUN and esf will just melt... i drive both of them an esf more on vanu side and prowler is meh... if you really have issue with an esf then you are doing something wrong..
You are right, I shall drive better
hornet gang
the editing sent me
amazing ps2 content lmao
NC can use the Masthead to shoot at the ESFs.
Great vid!😁
Very very true. but sky guards also exist and do insane dmg at 1k ranges so i think it's fair tbh
Agreeeee ! Hate hornet too, i drive evry day a prowler and all the time stupid hornet poke me....
I don't use hornets because i hate them. Yes, i hate them too....
Well pelters exist and you can't even one shot them, also hard to complain about esfs as a prowler
Prowlers can't say a thing. It's so fkin anoying when you get sniped across the map by a prowler that is mounted and has the active ablitity for bonus bullet velocity. These are way worse than skyguards. Btw hornets did 1000 dg oer missile back in the day. That was awfull
just like i hate the hellfires
as an esf main, my opinion remains that hornets were a mistake. esfs are for farming infantry, not armor
Hah stay mad
Hahahaha
You're just as bad as an infantrysider complaining about being farmed by air to ground, in a combined arms game.
Tanks can and do die, often, to infantry. ESF movement mechanics are so obscure, so unintuitive, and so full of engine exploits that the minimum bar of entry for becoming a pilot is to be trained by a seasoned professional. Those exploits are what allows good pilots to avoid 85% of anything that does meaningful damage to them. There are very few AA options to begin with, even fewer that don't rely on direct hits, fewer still that do meaningful damage if they ARE flak, and not a goddamn one that will actually function as a deterrent to someone who does know engine exploit maneuvers.
ESF has every goddamn mobility advantage, and the only reason you don't see them in groups in every fight is because of the astronomical skill floor for learning how to fly.
@@carlodagunz you hit on every point 100% except the end. the real reason we dont see a group of skyknight esfs often is because a) the medium ("i can rev maneuver lmao") and up pilots recognize the actual danger to the air game if esfs murderball (3+), and b) those people usually are antisocial andys so naturally they do not like to share. 10k hours 99.9% lib and engineer pov. ^
@@housemana I'm not even talking about deathballs, I'm talking about pairs or trios. It only really takes a couple of skyknights to nuke sunderers. If everyone could reach the piloting skill to succeed at air to ground without someone teaching them how to exploit the flight mechanics, we'd see air tactics matter more often.