Responding To The Culture Of Honor

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 พ.ย. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 64

  • @larryroach6887
    @larryroach6887 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I've recently discovered your TH-cam channel and have been binging. I'm so grateful for people who will discuss differences in the body of Christ in a civil manner. What a breath of fresh air. I personally have received great benefit from watching Bethel on line but I am very appreciative of the balance you bring to their teaching. Have you watched their series called "Five Fold Live?" It seemes to paint a different picture of how the 5 fold operates within Bethel than this book seems to describe and how it has been applied by other churches. I would be curious to know what you think about that video series. I am new to the concept of 5 fold ministry so this discussion has been very beneficial for me. Thank you.

  • @kotyslough5828
    @kotyslough5828 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Watching this before work this morning helped put me back on track. Listening to you guys motivates me to stay the course. Praise God for that. Thanks guys

  • @Steadfast_Steady_Strong
    @Steadfast_Steady_Strong 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    26:02 - YES!!! Real unity is NOT keeping your mouth shut when you see an issue. I just read The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse, and I highly recommend it!

    • @Steadfast_Steady_Strong
      @Steadfast_Steady_Strong 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      36:50 ABSOLUTELY agree

    • @strongbada.4709
      @strongbada.4709 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Great book. Helped to put into words what happened to me. I knew the pastor was behaving incorrectly but didn’t have the words until I found this book.

  • @robertkendall1037
    @robertkendall1037 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    So what now of the blueprint? Honest question in light of recent revelations. Was the vision and blueprint erroneous?

  • @KingdomWithinU
    @KingdomWithinU 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    @ Minute 25:00 - When Danny attempts to point out how bad it is to discuss doctrinal differences because it causes division, His teaching about the 5 fold with in this book is actually doing that very thing.

  • @todaymedia7339
    @todaymedia7339 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    I am frustrated when the pulpit is used for leader vision, and dreams and visions, when most people in the seats don't have a very good understanding of the Bible. That should e a priority.

  • @dennissal3071
    @dennissal3071 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Thank you for talking about this in the open. Had to deal with a lot of these issues of honor + leadership abuse when I was part of King Jesus Ministry in Miami, FL.

  • @strongbada.4709
    @strongbada.4709 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    An elder doesn’t necessarily have the gift of pastor

  • @melissalarson213
    @melissalarson213 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    This describes so much the church we went to for 15 yrs. We left in 2018. So glad we're part of a healthy Assemblies of God church now.

  • @selahrichardson
    @selahrichardson ปีที่แล้ว

    I agree with what was said about gifts/personality. My personality is anxious/reserved, and I'm gifted to evangelize loudly. Thanks for the video!

  • @thirdparsonage
    @thirdparsonage 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I love how much you guys make an attempt to keep bringing things back to scripture!
    My extra thought here is that it seems there should be more mention of how the Christians immediately following the apostles understood what the scripture meant on this topic. We do have writings from the early fathers, some of whom were direct disciples of the apostles, or within one or two generations of the apostles. It would seem they have would have particular wisdom in how to apply scriptural leadership considering they were closer in time and culture to the New Testament leaders and presumably had access to systems of leadership that were still broadly in place from the churches established by the apostles and their associates.

  • @leonnewo5746
    @leonnewo5746 ปีที่แล้ว

    Mabey you could mark this video really obviously so people are not mistaken to miss the 2end part. This is such an important contant. Again, thank you.

  • @Couragedearheart445
    @Couragedearheart445 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Excellent discussion!
    Ironic that Jesus is called The Teacher (Rabbi) repeatedly in Scripture....😉 He also brought division, but it was a good thing, dividing light from darkness.🤔 Not all division or disagreement is bad.
    So many thoughts...

  • @justinchamberlain3443
    @justinchamberlain3443 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    3:30 vacation time
    7:01 "characteristics"/personality traits of 5 fold-strange
    24:20 don't focus on the Word is what's being said w/out the great fluff word salad that most consider to be "deep" I guess
    27:10 teachers purpose is to "prove that they're right"; he's using snarky ex-girlfriend type of language. Theology is "lifeless" but fluffy nonsense is wonderful
    30:02 "it concerns me" an understatement
    35:15 bethel "is our brothers and sisters"; even w/ the huge ego that it took to allow this book to be published? This wasn't just silk it's their whole leadership that would approve this for publishing
    49:50 this is a great definition of what a cult is-man worship; which is very likely to happen in all circles where certain individuals are perceived as having certain accomplishments. But this is beyond that; it's man worship for accomplishments that aren't really there
    54:55 ihops a church that's a "prayer house" in name
    57:01 bickle must oversee both; I believe he was the one that selected Isaac as pastor
    -so if you're a Para-church then you don't have to bear witness to the full counsel of God's word?

  • @DocLarsen44
    @DocLarsen44 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    The statement that I think I heard which really hit me was, "TRUTH is a secondary...."
    My immediate thought was TRUTH is at GOD'S core as is LOVE. Maybe I misheard what was part of larger context that I missed. I don't miss any of your videos so thank you all for what you do. I need to find the details of you upcoming North Carolina event and hope to attend. GOD bless you all in the name of ✝Jesus Christ/Yeshua Ha Mashiach✝ our Lord, Savior and Brother.

  • @ryanwilliamsonjesusisking2691
    @ryanwilliamsonjesusisking2691 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    If all the "Gifts" come from the same "Spirit", who's to say that Spirit can't choose for someone to operate in and out of any gift at any time if that person is yielded to be used that way?

  • @strongbada.4709
    @strongbada.4709 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Real unity is not uniformity. Uniformity is sameness of personality. Unity is sameness of purpose.

  • @patruff3000
    @patruff3000 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Che Ahn is a BIG advocate voice for all of this but almost never gets mentioned by any one. He is waaaay more vocal than Bill Johnson. I just don’t understand why he’s never talked about by so many yet Bill Johnson’s name always comes up. Why is he always getting a pass?

  • @RLMMinistries
    @RLMMinistries 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    why does Josh look like a medieval monk in this video? lol

  • @MyName-tj4zj
    @MyName-tj4zj 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I don’t believe gifts are given at conversion. I believe our entire lives God is orchestrating and sculpting each event to maximize our gifting for conversation. One clarification. At least for those who God knows will surrender at some point but I still believe our gifting are from birth but God will not sculpt the life of a never believer, only a believer.

  • @stuarthys9879
    @stuarthys9879 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I really like your podcast. I totally agree with what you’re saying and truth is fundamental. I suspect this book you’re reviewing is a bit of a reaction against legalistic thinking, but without a clear understanding of the correct solution.
    I’m interested to hear what you think about the “office”. I don’t see this in the Bible. I see an office of elder, but gifting of pastors, apostles, evangelist etc. The apostles were recognized in a natural way as was Jesus, who “taught with authority, not as the teachers of the law”. In my opinion these unbiblical “offices” are a result of western mindsets imposed on the church by people using the church to make a career or a name for themselves and rarely a result of God’s leading.
    A second problem I have is that I also don’t like the way you talk about a “charismatic movement”. In the Bible every church was charismatic. Calling it a movement makes it sound like something new, but it seems to me like God’s original pattern was that every church moved in the power of the spirit. In other words, every church in the New Testament was charismatic. However, the primary focus was always on Jesus and making disciples, not on the gifts. I really hope all churches come back to the biblical balance of valuing the gifts but not worshiping them.
    Please keep going though. This is one of the best podcasts I’ve found!!

  • @armandprentiss3668
    @armandprentiss3668 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Enjoyed the two parts. But with family experience in several mega churches in last 20 years the “honor culture” I’m concerned about is the stress on honor, titles, and fealty toward leadership by both staff and members. Not just respect and faithfulness- devotion and looking the other way when waste and corruption are going on. Some churches were much better than others. But the honor only flows one direction- up!

  • @dadsteader
    @dadsteader 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    There is a problem with saying the word "Elder" in the NT refers to a leader within the church. It does not in fact do so. That is an assumption made by the reader. However it is true that elder has its literal meaning. Older in age, not maturity of faith, which is why Timothy is encouraged to speak up and lead DESPITE his youth. The correct term you are looking for is overseer, which only refers to those responsible for reporting the conduct of a specific region of churches, to other regions of churches. Within those smaller churches would have been two or three more mature in faith than the people within the church. The job of the two or three was to train the new group to be able to do just as had been done with them. Which included living in the same home and interacting daily around following Jesus. Eventually sending the people from that group to go do the same. That is how simple the church structure needs to be.

  • @jeffinthesnow
    @jeffinthesnow 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Fantastic scriptural perspective. Very helpful

  • @gracenotes5379
    @gracenotes5379 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    It would be interesting in this context to do an honest exegesis of what James Ch3 is _really_ teaching the body of Christ. The chapter begins with "Not many of you should become teachers, my fellow believers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly," which is clearly not intended to lower our estimation of those who teach, but to check the eagerness of self-appointed (prideful?) would-be teachers. The same chapter ends by contrasting two types of wisdom (earthly and demonic vs. wisdom that comes down from heaven) which I believe is there to bring a corrective for those who are more willing to make assertions than live humble lives that demonstrate they've actually learned wisdom.

  • @strongbada.4709
    @strongbada.4709 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    1 Timothy gives the qualifications for an elder. All of those have to do with character not gifting.

  • @gabriellafaithmckenzie
    @gabriellafaithmckenzie 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Okla-homies 😂👏🏽

  • @brianakortbein5082
    @brianakortbein5082 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    IM SO EXCITED FOR THE CONFERENCE!!!!

  • @adrianstorm474
    @adrianstorm474 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Keep Your Love On is a real banger as well. I think Danny may be a kind and well meaning guy, but literature and exegesis may not be his “lane of grace”

  • @faithandfailures
    @faithandfailures 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    7:11 I disagree. I don’t think it’s always at the point of conversion. I think sometimes God puts seeds of gifts from birth, and they mature overtime while others are given later.

  • @lucaslogg1024
    @lucaslogg1024 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I do see the necessity of handling isolated quotes, can understand and agree with some of the critique, but it can create a caricature of the message as a whole. When you lift out and dissect isolated quotes as you do, I really don’t hear the message being portrayed in a fair way. Maybe it’s just me. It would be helpful to hear more of “he also says this in another chapter of the book” to set some of the quotes in context.

    • @spn2240
      @spn2240 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      And the book is nearly 10 years old! While I don’t mind reviewing older source material, at least supplement it with other recent sources. Are you to tell me that Bethel has changed nothing or added anything to this book and therefore their culture for nearly 10 years? There is more to the conversation on both sides, whether for better or worse. However, we are given very little more.

    • @lucaslogg1024
      @lucaslogg1024 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      ​@@spn2240 I think it is defendable to discuss the book and its own message due to the broad impact it has had during these years. But maybe it would be helpful to have the same value of contextualization from when we read the bible as when criticize the teaching of a leader. If we do criticize a caricature of a teaching, even if it’s a little of from the true description, the critique can fall flat on “That is not what we meant”.

  • @annaboshier6680
    @annaboshier6680 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    If I lived in that area I would absolutely be at the conference! Will you live stream it maybe?

  • @Justasheepwithashepard
    @Justasheepwithashepard 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Is there a 3rd part? :D

  • @coryfraser7554
    @coryfraser7554 ปีที่แล้ว

    Good conversation, where is part 3??

  • @stevendonohoe2150
    @stevendonohoe2150 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hi, i beleive the core apostolic anointing is the breaker anointing. It breaks through obstacles & advances the kingdom with salvations, signs & wonders and realises a greater manifestation of Gods presence. Micah 2:13 In regards to hierarchy I beleive scripture supports equality within the whole body with Jesus as the head.. Elders (Mature beleivers) oversee the church which may include an Apostle & other 5 fold servants but they all see themselves as equal submitting to one another in love. (No top down authority) The Holy Spirit directs the gathering. Church decisions are made by the Holy Spirit & confirmed by atleast 2 to 3 elders who bear whitness to the Holy Spirit. Could be wrong but that's how I'm seeing scripture.

  • @brianakortbein5082
    @brianakortbein5082 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    What if I already signed up and have patreon with you guys????

  • @danielscountry9884
    @danielscountry9884 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great episodes guys. Looking forward to the third.

  • @marshayoder7627
    @marshayoder7627 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    God is 1 divine spirit...eternally manifest as father-son- and holy spirit.....this keeps us out of a lot of trouble. To know this definition of God

  • @paulc7190
    @paulc7190 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    better a culture of honour than dishonour (like many heretic hunters do) but guess we wouldn't want to make a theology of culture, either

  • @simplyafederalist
    @simplyafederalist 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    The big 5 personality tess actually in the business world can really affect how good and what type of Job you go for. However, the problem with the quote is he assumes there is only one type of Paster, Prophets Ect. Which is nonsense. There are specific personalities that will be bad with specific gifts and better with others. But God will use the least likely often to do these things. So its not a rule.
    So there is some correlation I think such as organized people who are good at operations when creative solutions are not needed are high in conceasions. Or entrepreneurs and artists are very open-minded. Artists don't have highly closed-minded personalities on the big 5. However, scripture is all of us going against our flesh nature and doing the right thing that is against our base personality natures in the correct circumstances.
    So just because our personality says to respond a specific way to an issue does not mean it's the right way. Making the excuse this is just how I am is not valid to not go against how our personality would respond.

  • @jonrichardson7898
    @jonrichardson7898 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Michael Miller, are you a part of Awaken The Dawn in Tampa?

    • @michaelmiller5024
      @michaelmiller5024 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      No. Not really sure what that is. Just a few small churches coming together. It’s posted on my website which is in the links on this video.

  • @strongbada.4709
    @strongbada.4709 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Real supernatural life is living in complete surrender to Christ as Lord and loving God and others.
    Real spiritual maturity is not signs and wonders, it’s love for God as seen in love for others.

  • @strongbada.4709
    @strongbada.4709 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Oh, this guy is from bethel. So, NAR. It all makes sense now.

  • @itscoleperkins
    @itscoleperkins 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Ok, I lost it at 59:12. 😂

  • @strongbada.4709
    @strongbada.4709 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I bet this author is an “apostle”

  • @itscoleperkins
    @itscoleperkins 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Love this content!

  • @3rdFloorContent
    @3rdFloorContent 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    When Jesus said “the truth will set you free” he wasn’t referring to New Testament doctrine. He was referring to himself…”I am the way, the truth..”
    The New Testament isn’t a new law. The new way of the New Covenant was to be led by the Holy Spirit who would lead you into all truth. Man desires to understand things intellectually but that isn’t how we know spiritual, biblical truth. I believe that is the what Danny was referring to. I honestly disagree with a lot of Bethel, but not for reasons espoused by the reformed, intellectual culture.
    An apostle is like a father. It is a function. Just as in Christ their are no men/women that doesn’t deny the reality of godly order and function. A good father who actual leads doesn’t ask all of his kids their opinions so everyone has a say. They actually hear from the lord and lead their wives and kids. Godly order isn’t control and we all know the bad side of that. Rebellion, however, is worse. And that is a heart condition that can’t hide behind how one interprets the New Testament church structure should be. I’m not accusing you guys of rebellion but I am
    Concerned you could be feeding it.
    Again, I’m not for controlling church leadership. But I am for true apostolic leadership and I don’t believe we have yet seen in our generation what that looks like. Even roundtree’s quote of Paul saying “this is a command of the Lord”
    Rebuts exactly what you guys are saying. Paul was an apostle who was functioning as that. Apostles are to function as the head authority of the Lord in church function. Jesus as the cornerstone, and the revelation of Jesus Christ that comes through their function. It’ was not just for establishing NT doctrine. It’s a function that didn’t die out. To disagree would make you a partial cessationist. Yes the pastors/elders governed the everyday affairs of the church but that was under the one who established them, the apostle. Just as Paul instructed to appoint elders. That was done BY the apostle.

  • @strongbada.4709
    @strongbada.4709 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    16:25 what happened to Jesus teaching about the greatest among you will be your servant?

  • @Keto-m6p
    @Keto-m6p ปีที่แล้ว

    Aside from whether or not someone likes this book, Culture of Honor a.k.a. Honor Culture is a longstanding term with an established definition, alongside Dignity Culture and Face Culture. The author of the book does not understand what Honor Culture actually means, and he should have chosen a different term for what he is trying to describe and recommend.

  • @timothyross8985
    @timothyross8985 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Danny may not see his view is Roman Catholic.

  • @AnciAlatir
    @AnciAlatir 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Sounds like an incredibly cringey book 😬

  • @scottatutube1
    @scottatutube1 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Why don’t you interview Danny Silk and Have a real conversation?

    • @apmcrobert2270
      @apmcrobert2270 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      They said in the forst podcast they invited him but he hasn't responded.

    • @Iffmeister
      @Iffmeister 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      They've invited him and he hasn't responded

  • @tony.biondi
    @tony.biondi 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    "Go, therefore, and make students of all nations...teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you" (Jesus, c.33AD)

  • @TheReader6
    @TheReader6 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

    The dude writing the book seems to have an arrogance problem. Many people want the “feels” of the spirit without the discipline of actually being constrained by the Word. It’s like wanting the passion but not the baby.

  • @strongbada.4709
    @strongbada.4709 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Who is this “author”? He sounds like someone who has been made a leader as a novice in the faith. We know what scripture says about making a novice a leader. They will become puffed up and arrogant.