Hello sir, I commend you for trying so hard and so many different ways to beat the max carrier spam. But this is not the way in general since good skytoss always includes mothership and storm. Your hydras will get stormed and bye bye game. This is why microbial shroud is considered a meme, it doesn't reduce storm damage or disruptor damage or even chargelot archon damage. The best way I like to deal with skytoss without being Serral and having 600 APM and 4 control groups for Spellcasters is this: ultralisks on the ground/corruptor viper overseer in the air. The ultras run over the Templar and soak an ungodly amount of carrier DPS. Then the protocol for killing the carriers is this: you parasitic bomb the carrier deathball and run your corruptors INTO the deathball. Every single interceptor will go poof to the bomb and then you can focus fire at your leisure. Bonus marks for trimming down the ball by yoinking a few from good angles (especially effective Vs mothership). Also spore forest was a good idea, is always helpful, as are Queens! So you were definitely headed in the right direction. Anyway there is your answer (source is Stephano, one of the greatest macro zergs of all time).
You need to parasitic bomb the carriers (like 2-3 parasitic bombs) and then "jump" onto the carriers with your corruptors. The parasitic bomb will kill most of the interceptors and you can target fire the carriers. That will just work if the toss doesnt have high templars.
If you watch GSL or Serral, you'll see the pro answer is to do hit and runs, use abduct to grab one or two carriers and take favorable exchanges until the carriers are too reduced to fight. I imagine it takes a lot of good micro though
@@sergeizhumagazynov9767its a micro battle between templar and viper if you gonna play mass corruptor or mass hydar against mass carrier you probably gonna get destroy by carrier. Dont forget the fact that carrier cost more mineral more gas more supply and more training time and dont forget that each carrier need to spend more 200 mineral for 8 interceptors too
@@sergeizhumagazynov9767 the carrier count in this video is completely unrealistic. you'll never fight against 25 carriers in a real game. it will be 10 at most and 10 carriers is definitely not an f2 army, it's very beatable with microbial shroud queens/spores/corruptors/vipers. watch recent Zest games from the super tournament where he won with sky toss. pro protosses usually win by constantly doing hit and run attacks and hindering the zerg economy, and often times using many void rays instead of carriers, and many times they win by defending a queen walk which puts the zerg s behind. but yeah generally beating sky seems to be more complicated than executing it that is true- but unfortunately lurker is better than anything protoss has on the ground so pro protoss players feel they are forced to play stargate.
The main problem i see is the carrier is not microed. No player will deplete their intercept and not withdrawing. You win by defensive position carrier still have a choice not to engage. So this at best lead to a stalemate. Of couse im not sure is it economically to make to protoss out of mineral and force a win.
No, vipers parabomb 2-3 carriers, dive all of your coruptors onto the parabomb'd carrier, kiill it. Parabom stays, interceptors follow corruptors. You insta kill all interceptors and win
i think the people on the balance council wont consider this an issue, micribial shroud is dog ass because storm exists, it literally negates it, both spells cost the same energy and one has no cooldown and one has a 2 second cooldown, as long as there are hightemplar on the map you cant hold a position next to your spore wall effectively losing it. people complained about infested terran, and complain about broodlord but carrier is the same thing, interceptors are not technically free but they might as well be at that stage of the game. i wouldnt mind if we could just build infested terrans with the rockets, instead of having them come from infesters just use larva or a special structure, or scourge, which was the intended purpose of them to begin with, they said it was unfun to chase as zerg with scourge but i dunno corrupters are dog ass into protoss.
2:08 look at his interceptor count and his economy, if you didn't throw your army away, kept the corruptions behind the crawlers and continues building more i i think it would be possible to win through attrition. If you're mining and in control of most of the map while the enemy is mined out the ball is really in his court.
The problem with hydras is any protoss that is smart will be using mothership and 6-8 templar ontop of the carriers you will get wrecked going hydra vs carrier
Hey, I'm not the best either but have you tried use parasitic bomb and dive your corruptor's in a tiny spot where the parasitic bomb is ? It destroys almost all interceptors quickly. The con is to be more sensible to storms, but he's gonna storm his own army too. You can try to have some ultras to kill the Templar so he doesn't have too much storms ! Try it and if you make a video about it I'll watch it ;)
If I'm in this situation, I always find that vipers are much better, you trade freely and avoid archon and ht splash while starving them. Don't think army to army, think economy to win the late air game.
I'm not the best, so anyone that is Masters or above, feel free to fact check me! Edit: I plan to remake this today or tomorrow with the help of all suggestions from comments on reddit and here (: th-cam.com/video/oQ84C2sCLio/w-d-xo.html also I've seen GM level players have success with microbial shroud, hydra, and lurker(to prevent storm)
you need to trade carriers for corrupters, focus them down, you can remake corrupters faster than he can make carriers, due to price difference and production time......
Vipers out range carries, and also you couldve parasetic bomb couple of your corruptors and send them into the interseptors,as you know the bomb will be there in the air, or fungle the interseptors
Im a noob that always play 4v4 . I find 5-7 vipers along with some corrupters is good enough to decimate many sky toss. 3-5 parasitic bomb on the sky toss clump and pull back all the viper and let corruptor continue the fight. In team games my viper just follow teammates sky toss and wait for sky showdown to fire those parasitic bomb lol
I think one big thing to look at is you're always fighting head on. If you dance around the army yoinking in 1 at a time you can get insane value and toss can't do much about it other than try to feedback.
Carrier needs nerfed. It's too cheap and can be built too early on, I would add 15-20% to the cost and slow the build time by 4 seconds or so. And people are now just doing even more Carriers because the Void Ray got tweaked in a recent patch. In Gold and below right now, Mass Carrier is the only Protoss build in town and it's just so f-cking repetitive and boring.
Hello sir,
I commend you for trying so hard and so many different ways to beat the max carrier spam. But this is not the way in general since good skytoss always includes mothership and storm. Your hydras will get stormed and bye bye game. This is why microbial shroud is considered a meme, it doesn't reduce storm damage or disruptor damage or even chargelot archon damage. The best way I like to deal with skytoss without being Serral and having 600 APM and 4 control groups for Spellcasters is this: ultralisks on the ground/corruptor viper overseer in the air. The ultras run over the Templar and soak an ungodly amount of carrier DPS. Then the protocol for killing the carriers is this: you parasitic bomb the carrier deathball and run your corruptors INTO the deathball. Every single interceptor will go poof to the bomb and then you can focus fire at your leisure. Bonus marks for trimming down the ball by yoinking a few from good angles (especially effective Vs mothership). Also spore forest was a good idea, is always helpful, as are Queens! So you were definitely headed in the right direction. Anyway there is your answer (source is Stephano, one of the greatest macro zergs of all time).
Definitely get a second angle in there too. Its just like Thors, very powerful, very slow. Every move for them is a commitment. Every bait an opening.
This was the most tactful response. Very good constructive criticism.
You need to parasitic bomb the carriers (like 2-3 parasitic bombs) and then "jump" onto the carriers with your corruptors. The parasitic bomb will kill most of the interceptors and you can target fire the carriers. That will just work if the toss doesnt have high templars.
I made an updated video to address that. it is pinned in the comments.
@@lennek3817 Thanks for the videos! Here is the follow-up for those having a hard time to find it th-cam.com/video/oQ84C2sCLio/w-d-xo.html
Interesting, I like this kind of analysis. Good job dude
If you watch GSL or Serral, you'll see the pro answer is to do hit and runs, use abduct to grab one or two carriers and take favorable exchanges until the carriers are too reduced to fight. I imagine it takes a lot of good micro though
The problem is that you need to make plenty of effort to win against this, while protoss doesn't need, it's just F2
@@sergeizhumagazynov9767its a micro battle between templar and viper if you gonna play mass corruptor or mass hydar against mass carrier you probably gonna get destroy by carrier. Dont forget the fact that carrier cost more mineral more gas more supply and more training time and dont forget that each carrier need to spend more 200 mineral for 8 interceptors too
@@sergeizhumagazynov9767 the carrier count in this video is completely unrealistic. you'll never fight against 25 carriers in a real game. it will be 10 at most and 10 carriers is definitely not an f2 army, it's very beatable with microbial shroud queens/spores/corruptors/vipers. watch recent Zest games from the super tournament where he won with sky toss. pro protosses usually win by constantly doing hit and run attacks and hindering the zerg economy, and often times using many void rays instead of carriers, and many times they win by defending a queen walk which puts the zerg s behind. but yeah generally beating sky seems to be more complicated than executing it that is true- but unfortunately lurker is better than anything protoss has on the ground so pro protoss players feel they are forced to play stargate.
The main problem i see is the carrier is not microed. No player will deplete their intercept and not withdrawing. You win by defensive position carrier still have a choice not to engage. So this at best lead to a stalemate. Of couse im not sure is it economically to make to protoss out of mineral and force a win.
He did eventually admit that they were imba :)
This is why we need to have the scourge back
No, vipers parabomb 2-3 carriers, dive all of your coruptors onto the parabomb'd carrier, kiill it. Parabom stays, interceptors follow corruptors. You insta kill all interceptors and win
Men you are a genius! I have been loosing against carriers in all my late games agains Toss. You resolved the issue of my life haha
Gotta control those vipers. Your best units just got move commanded through the carriers.
i think the people on the balance council wont consider this an issue, micribial shroud is dog ass because storm exists, it literally negates it, both spells cost the same energy and one has no cooldown and one has a 2 second cooldown, as long as there are hightemplar on the map you cant hold a position next to your spore wall effectively losing it.
people complained about infested terran, and complain about broodlord but carrier is the same thing, interceptors are not technically free but they might as well be at that stage of the game.
i wouldnt mind if we could just build infested terrans with the rockets, instead of having them come from infesters just use larva or a special structure, or scourge, which was the intended purpose of them to begin with, they said it was unfun to chase as zerg with scourge but i dunno corrupters are dog ass into protoss.
2:08 look at his interceptor count and his economy, if you didn't throw your army away, kept the corruptions behind the crawlers and continues building more i i think it would be possible to win through attrition. If you're mining and in control of most of the map while the enemy is mined out the ball is really in his court.
The problem with hydras is any protoss that is smart will be using mothership and 6-8 templar ontop of the carriers you will get wrecked going hydra vs carrier
Hey, I'm not the best either but have you tried use parasitic bomb and dive your corruptor's in a tiny spot where the parasitic bomb is ? It destroys almost all interceptors quickly. The con is to be more sensible to storms, but he's gonna storm his own army too. You can try to have some ultras to kill the Templar so he doesn't have too much storms ! Try it and if you make a video about it I'll watch it ;)
i think that the best way to defeat mass carrier is using psionic unit like queen, viper, infester with attack unit
in my experience you can hydra infestor with fungal and shroud while killing interceptors
fungal also slows the interceptors so they make even less damage
If I'm in this situation, I always find that vipers are much better, you trade freely and avoid archon and ht splash while starving them. Don't think army to army, think economy to win the late air game.
I'm not the best, so anyone that is Masters or above, feel free to fact check me!
Edit: I plan to remake this today or tomorrow with the help of all suggestions from comments on reddit and here (:
th-cam.com/video/oQ84C2sCLio/w-d-xo.html
also I've seen GM level players have success with microbial shroud, hydra, and lurker(to prevent storm)
you need to trade carriers for corrupters, focus them down, you can remake corrupters faster than he can make carriers, due to price difference and production time......
You jusy suiceded your vipers... you couldve yonked them one by one ...
Vipers out range carries, and also you couldve parasetic bomb couple of your corruptors and send them into the interseptors,as you know the bomb will be there in the air, or fungle the interseptors
what if you make many infestors and spam fungal growth on them?
I do not believe that the effect stacks. So if you have 3 fungals at the same time.. it will be as if only one landed.
Im a noob that always play 4v4 . I find 5-7 vipers along with some corrupters is good enough to decimate many sky toss. 3-5 parasitic bomb on the sky toss clump and pull back all the viper and let corruptor continue the fight.
In team games my viper just follow teammates sky toss and wait for sky showdown to fire those parasitic bomb lol
great video
I have been watching lots of lokow and seral makes this late game match up look imbalance for Zerg lol
I think one big thing to look at is you're always fighting head on. If you dance around the army yoinking in 1 at a time you can get insane value and toss can't do much about it other than try to feedback.
Why do you expect to beat 200 army supply with 150 army supply? Being 50 army supply down vs fully upgraded carriers is the most obvious problem.
I dont expect it. I am doing worst case scenario. Normally they wont have 200 army supply.. they will likely have probes
Every comp should have a counter. You can beat 400 zerglings with 20 hellbats..
Poor vipers, rip
Drone 50 + spore 75
If hydras fight the interceptors it is better to fungal the interceptors, it reduces their damage and makes them die very fast.
Platin problems...
..ngl i use an ass load of infestors and turn em into mine 😅😂
How do u get close? U burrow and parasitic bomb take over 8 carries ull cause a mess trust me
@@darkcorner3651 if they have an observer this doesn't work?
@@lennek3817 u wanna fight in defensive positions while broods keeps pelting buildings u wanna snipe as many pylons as u can
Strom tho ...
didnt use vipers once
Carrier needs nerfed. It's too cheap and can be built too early on, I would add 15-20% to the cost and slow the build time by 4 seconds or so.
And people are now just doing even more Carriers because the Void Ray got tweaked in a recent patch. In Gold and below right now, Mass Carrier is the only Protoss build in town and it's just so f-cking repetitive and boring.
I mean your micro was really not good..
yup. thats why there is a follow up video
God those graphics are dumbed down ew gross