Thanks and for the video! I'm Italian and I'm happy that this series is watched and analyzed even outside my country. I have been following Zero Calcare for a long time and I would like to give you a suggestion, if you allow me: do not assume that Zero Calcare and his motivations are represented only by the protagonist, Zero. The author is also inside Sara, Secco and inside Cesare and uses these characters as a narrative pretext to talk about a very complex situation. Zero is only the point of view of the narrative, the starting point, but as the series progresses, he demonstrates his contradictions and crashes against the arguments of the other characters. This is why it is not important to agree with Zero's ideas to enjoy the story. Greetings from Italy.
The fact the Zero establishes he is a hypocrite and unreliable narrator actually makes the story more interesting and realistic. It also makes it easier to not hold things against him because the person Zero is the one pointing these things out. He isn’t trying to cover it up. Perhaps the show is a form of therapy for him as well.
No , not really . Just because you acknowledge you are a hypocrite , does not justify you being a hypocrite . And such argument is extra useful in this situation because even known zero acknowledges he is a hypocrite and bias in his beliefs , he still is set to be the "right guy" in the show . So it does not make it better . Since his morals are basically - "well i know that there are problems BESIDES refugees needing shelters , but i still gotta ignore them because reasons" .
@@Chuchel-hh6hq"The right guy"? Did you even watch the show? There were many times in the show where Zero gets called out for being wrong. Hell, you can see all of that in the video you are commenting on!
@@Chuchel-hh6hq man, hypocrisy is literally the only thing that disappears the moment you acknowledge it. An hypocrite can never say "I am being an hypocrite", because that would be honest.
@@a.f.schmied1571I think that’s the wrong definition for this context. Hypocrisy is to believe A is the correct action under X conditions, or at least claim it to be, while instead doing Y yourself under those same conditions. Because of this hypocrisy isn’t always a character flaw in and of itself, as a person can have an area of failure where they don’t do as they state they should. In this case attempting to improve will result in a period of hypocrisy. When it becomes problematic is when pride or manipulation is added to the mix, where-in the person excuses themselves from having to live up to their own standards or uses their stated instructions to manipulate the behavior of others.
Zero is not a liberal, he's more of an anarchist. He started making political comics and punk concerts fanzines. He's always been political, it's probably his most recognisable trait.
For an American, there is nothing more left-wing than a liberal and anything more right-wing than a Southern Republican. That's why I can't fully understand a show like this
@@MaxStirner123Bad take. While it is true that the American left seems to be unable to comprehend anything to the right of themselves, publicans and American conservatives completely understand the gamut of leftism. It's part of the reason why we are upset, how are Democrats have lurched significantly leftward over the last decade, including open border policies and attempts at legalizing pederasty. These aren't "liberal", which is why we now typically use the term "leftist".
@@MaxStirner123 liberals aren't left wing, they're right wing but moderate, while republicans are generally far right. The difference between the two is very thin and neither try to break this oppressive system called late capitalism. People like me and Zero want an equal world free from capitalism as it is not the only system that society can use. Zero is a radical leftist because he doesn't want to change many aspects of capitalism for the better but he wants to eradicate it from its origins and put another system in place.
bro zero is not liberal its more on the comunist side because in italy there is the right that are facist centre are catholichs and left are socialis/comunist i know this bacauase i am italian
Fun fact for y'all non italian fellas: the name Zero Calcare was chosen randomly by the artist back in the day, and the two words were an old slogan used for a limescale remover, it means in fact zero limescale and it's not an actual name. Pretty important detail if you ask me since there's a lot of people who think that Zero is the name of the protagonist and also a cool ass name but that wouldn't fit the character, it's just the abbreviation of "Zero Limescale"
he acts like he's in the right and the other is in the wrong, but the viewer is never left with the idea he's acting the best. That's the whole point. It's one person's perspective, it's going to be that way and the story doesn't want you to agree with him, it just shows you stuff through him and this limit of his view is part of the story, because all of us have that limit
To be fair to Zero, the Tucker Carlson joke was an idea of the translator, probably to make the original joke understandable to english-speaking watchers. The original joke instead of Carlson had Massimo Giletti, an italian TV presenter that does afternoon shows for families and housewives. While Giletti is thought to be somewhat right-leaning, he is in no way an outspoken right-wing pundit like Carlson. Quite the opposite: Giletti never even made explicit political statements and is viewed mostly as a productor of seemeingly innocuous, non-controversial centrist content aimed at a middle-aged public. He is a bit like Crocodile in the show: a symbol of political apathy and anesthetized conscience if you like. Basically, in the italian version the joke had Zero diluting his political passion to the point of apathy and inertia, while in the english version it has him make a U-turn and embrace conservatism entirely. I think the translation misses the point of the joke since this kind of transformation is not realistic: many young lefitists lose passion for politics and become more and more moderate with age, and the joke plays on the ever presente fear of young people to become like their parents. I probably would have used someone like Dr Phil, instead of Carlson.
Thank you so much for this explanation. As a non Italian who absolutely loves this show, I felt like the Tucker Carlson joke was a bit absurd (I get Zero's inner conflict that it is kinda shitty to forget about your friend in jail, but the whole "turning into a conservative Darth Vader" thing was a bit much). When explained like you did it makes a hell of a lot more sense
I like the allegory of the crocodile because it's a clear relation with the child song "Il coccodrillo come fa"(what the crocodile say) Basically he is so centrist that's like the crocodiles verses, undefinable
The problem is perhaps of a cultural nature, in Italy fascism is a crime (at least in theory) so when you have a friend who calls himself a fascist it is a much heavier thing in Italy than it is in the United States perhaps, imagine that in Germany (or in the United States) a friend of yours declared himself a neo-Nazi, there you would begin to better understand Zero's behavior. If I see a neo-Nazi manifesto, I tear it up, I'm not thinking about freedom of thought.
Fascism is a crime in Italy? Do you mean an act of fascism? Or do you mean the actual belief of fascism? If it's the latter than that's a very horrible law to have, no matter how immoral a belief system is, we don't have a right to be controlling people's conscience and punishing them for their views and beliefs. Fascism, communism, both of these are bad, but we can't force people to not believe in these ideologies in their private lives, neither should we suppress them if they choose to speak publicly about them. Unless those beliefs inspire them to commit violent actions, we shouldn't punish them for merely having those views.
Right? I was so bothered when he dismissed it as just "seeing things on a manifesto he didn't like" or "people disagreeing with him". These are out-and-proud roman-salute fascists who explicitly want the government to stop helping refugees seeking asylum. There's nothing redeemable about their political agenda, and it would be unacceptable to just let it take hold unchallenged (and no, politely disagreeing isn't challenging enough when your opponents are willing to resort to violence, or threaten violence against vulnerable people). Now, individual people DO have redeeming qualities, and that's the whole point of Cesare's arc. He's a young man with good intentions and a sensitive nature who went through a lot of crap and fell victim to propaganda. It's not that he's the only fascist with a complex history, but he's used as an example on how you can (and should) condemn violent political ideology while showing compassion to individuals
@@a.c.1839 Yes, the fact Cesare is not a bad person its like a Lesson of "The ideology can be horrible, but maybe the person behind it its desperate". Its interesting how, specially with the Refugee Crisis, both the refugees and the ppl of the asylum country suffer the same problem: How the governments act. I'm not saying neo-nazis or ppl who just take advantage of a country giving asylum (like many European ones like Sweden or England) don't exist... But i liked how at the end the series gave us a general criteria, showing us how the crisis affected the characters but in different way.
if you're ideology can't compete and shut down fascism/Nazism with it's own ideas and beliefs, you need to find a new ideology cause that one sucks ass. the main problem is most people have to go to an extremes (especially here in the states) cause there is no middle man group. there is no political party looking out for the normal people in the country, they all either want to give money to minorities or foreigners or just to themselves and no one at all, and in the bucket of crab theory people would rather see no one get money especially their tax money than see it be given to others who don't even contribute to the fund.
It is a cultural thing, because in America we are not suppose to react with violence to those we disagree with. Even if they are Nazis or Commies. But people have forgotten this and only attack each other now. Sadly Europe loves to jail people for wrong think instead of trying to talk with them and convincing them about their wrongs.
Honestly, I say you missed the point. It's not that Zero feels justified, it's that he has the same problems for the first series. He desperately wants to do the right thing, but can't stop himself from putting the entire world on his shoulders. Characters are constantly telling him to cut the moralizing and stop being the second coming. He needs to just be a regular person and help like everyone else.
Pontificating is often a problem with those who think they're in the right and don't have perspective. And confirmation bias doesn't make that better either, sadly, when a person doesn't always recognize it
I agree, I think the moral of the series might be summarized as: people are complicated, we all have many different reasons to do what we do. But still there are things that are undeniably wrong, even though you can understand "why" a person does them, this doesn't make them ok. Secco's speech before the confrontation kinda conveys that, when he asks around to the people why they are there and nobody there os presented as some kind of saint, there's no such thing as "heroes" in the real world, but there is decency.
I would like to add that most Italians have this "moral high-ground" stand, where they feel above others when thinking to be in the right, it's also an issue in discussions and sometimes in workplaces, but as the shows has demonstrated, sometimes all it takes is to just talk and listen, to fix this up, sadly most people forget about it.
Honestly I think that the fact you can dislike Zero this time around is coherent with what it tries to tell, there are many moments in the series where Zero comes to the realization that he has no moral high ground and trying to preach others on certain things only makes him an hypocrite. Cesare tells him that, Sara tells him that, even Secco and the Armadillo tell him that, all of them telling it in their own ways and with different points to their arguments. And by the way, what you're doing to spaghetti is a sin against humanity
I actually think the fact that Zero fails to feel any "empathy" to his opponents is not a character flaw but a rather realistic representation of a real person. People easily empathize with folks in there ingroup but almost immediately refuse to give the same benefit tonthe other or the outgroup. It's a very wide spread phenomenon. I think even you, Shady, follow the same pattern.
Things were not just lost in translation, they were lost in the mid of the cultural exchange. Zero doesn't call those guys "Nazis" because he's a "liberal" (he's not, he's much, much decisively a left winger) and he he recurs to reductio ad Hitlerum every time somebody says something he doesn't like. The "antagonists" of the show are, plain and simple, the typical Italian nazis. You could identify them with existing, well known groups such as Forza Nuova or Casapound, and those guys are nasty for real. 50 years ago their analogues used to engage in terrorism and today, in an age when extremists realized killing innocents is not really an optimal strategy, they are still quite violent groups and they openly ask for ethnic, religious and cultural cleansing in Italy and still honour Mussolini and the not funny mustache guy. That's very clear in the show, at least for us Italians: when Zero goes to the local city hall pretty much every politician who is there doesn't share his views, and a third of them is actually right leaning, but he doesn't call them "Nazis", because they aren't, and he knows that. The look and the symbols of the nazis in the show are very distinctive, in the eyes of the Italian viewers (and I guess of Europeans as a whole) they will be instantly recognized.
This is definitely a great cartoon but it's biggest issue is that it is based in references, so unless you're familiar with the culture it is really easy to get lost. Which makes in inaccessible to a lot of people.
Just so everyone knows: Zerocalcare has always been political, and you must remember that in Italy, Fascism is still very present at all level of society (Meloni is from Fascist upbringing).
The point is: he acts like he's in the right until he finds out that he was actually wrong, or misinformed, or that he had not considered another side of the matter. That's actually the point of the whole series: you do your best, but sometimes the others are doing their best and end-up being against you. And very often the people by your side are not the best either (and never trust politicians who say they are on your side).
I have to break them in half they don’t cook evenly because the pot I use most often causes them to stick out. It does make it easier to stir though, and the rest of my family ends up taking less because it looks like a bigger pile, leaving more for me.
If that's wrong then I don't wanna be right lmao Also my pot is just usually too small to cook them whole or else part of the noodles are sticking out and I hate that.
Obliviously the political side of the show is for Italian politics where fascism was INVENTED, the first fascist was BENITO MUSSOLINI an italian and it's still present here and in the Italian dub he calls them nazis because calling someone a "fascist" in Italy isn't even considered that bad (and italian fascist movements actually use Nazi symbols and are honest about what they think and want, imagine seeing people dressed as the KKK in the USA or people as the SS in Germany)
Would you prefer crypto fascist? Or does that resonate too much with a more recent usage of crypto? The only reason something loses meaning is because we refuse to challenge the associations we have, since language is socially constructed to a great extent
As an Italian who is very familiar with Zero's work since the early 2010's, I find it very interesting to hear how his stories and style resonate abroad, where people may not be familiar to some of the specific local sociopolitical context and pop-culture references - even though it must be said he tends to focus more on the universal human experience in the stories. Also, I really do not envy the people that have to adapt the dialogues for the dubbing, as getting the same feeling of the hilariously rude Roman vernacular is pretty much impossible to achieve in English. That said, I understand your feelings about the series, although I think that this is one of the instances in which the main character openly being the writer himself plays in its favour: not only because he cannot be anything but an unreliable narrator, but also because Zero the author not being afraid of portraying Zero the character as a bit of an entitled jerk that comes off as such sets him apart from other "liberal protagonists" in other shows, since he (the author) is aware he does not actually know it all. And I agree that Sarah is the best character of this season, followed by Cesare I'd say.
a proper translation of the title would be "this world won't make me evil" but i guess they wanted to keep the "tear" part so that it can easily be connected to the previous show/season
Italian and Zero's fan here. Before talking about him basing him on the shows you have absolutely to know who he is. The shows are obviously made for Italian viewers and probably he didn't expect his shows to get the interest of foreign countries. But anyway, Zerocalcare or just simply Michele, is an Italian millenial from Rome, as kid he used to contribute to small or big revolts, always trying to be "on the right side", the side of the discriminated, the weakests etcetera. When he started becoming famous it was because of his comics. He always gets political, ALWAYS, but he also fixated some rules when working. One of this is not participating to electoral debates. In is comics he constantly talks about how opressing is to be a potential political influencer. He always tries to do the right thing, he has values but also he's an human begin with flaws, fears and yes even hypocrisy. He always admited it but never tried to justify himself or glorifying his behaviour, indeed he does exactly the opposite: he portrays himself as a miserable begin that needs an imaginary friend to solve the shits he does, he always doubts his actions and such. The context of this particular show is extremely strict to Italians, especially the neonazi's wave that is so true and yet politicians hide it. WHAT AM I SAYING POLITICIANS ARE FUCKING FASCISTS THEMSELVES HERE. For how much I'm glad other countries are talking about these shows, I think you can't understand the show truly if you aren't living in this shitty country called Italy. It's not that you can't have your opinions on the shows, but it's kind of pointless if you firstly don't get the points
(Keeping the comment in english for everyone) THANK YOU With this series it's more than just "you have to watch it in italian to really get things" You have to know at least a bit of Italy's political (and cultural) setting, both past and present, and understand Zero's background as a millennial from Rome. Otherwise you end up missing lots of stuff and not enjoy it to its fullest I definitely agree with the fact that This world won't tear me down (title translation that doesn't fully channels the original one's meaning) wasn't really meant for a foreign audience, like many of Zerocalcare stories imo
Dude, every country in the world has its own liberal cucks, and your so called neonazis, latin america is not much different. THose points you say are unique to italy, are not so special and unique as snowflakes usually think, even in my country we do have the same type of rebel youth who think being kind and cute while selling drawings for a living instead of producing something that physically changes the world will solve all your problems
Anyway describe Zerocalcare as "liberal" is a big semplification of politics outside US. In the rest of the world liberal means a follower of liberalism (which is so big to comprende both democratic and republican party, also because at the end econamically are similar)
I mean, in Spain Vox call themselves "liberals" being alt Right. In Colombia liberals are more similar to US on past, the liberal party is a right wing party but the majority of members are center right
Even in the US it’d could be argued that liberals or neo-liberals (which I find to be a better descriptor because of how different modern interpretations of liberalism are compared to it’s beginnings) are more center right compared to the leftist ideologies of Marxism or Anarchism.
In the series you can see that “it’s complicated” kinda mentality. Because the f4scists are backed up by both Cesare and Sara, for fundamentally the same reason: being left behind. The thing I think it’s genius is that, Zero doesn’t justify them, the show does. While Zero thinks his long time best friend just decided to turn his back on him, as an audience we actually empathize sara for her decisions, while zero doesn’t, because the show told us to do so, not him. While for cesare, zero openly says that he can’t think for himself because he’s been out of the world for 20 years, so that must be the reason he took part on such a hateful group, but as an audience, we know that it’s not true, because there’s so much more than that. I think this show how much of a real and flawed character zero is, making him a lot less Marysue-y and a lot more interesting! (Btw, As an italian I feel like the way the antagonists are treated is pretty on point. They are literal f4scists and regardless of your political views they should be treated as the ignorant scum they are)
I have a feeling considering that The Show acknowledges The other side sometimes... and it's more self aware than a lot of other shows... That here... your probably not supposed to Like Zero... Your supposed to question things. As Zero in his more better moments points out. "You can't just slap people as black and white... it's more complicated than that." I think this show is showing what happens when you don't try to listen to the other side or even your own side.
As a conservative, I don't mind giving support and help to refugees...BUT as you said Shady, a country's government should be putting its own citizens well-being first. I'm not saying refugees and asylum-seekers should be left in the dirt, but that there should be moderation, that they should get the help they need so long as it's not at the expense of a country's citizens. And in regards to migrants from either the Middle East or Latin America, there has to be procedures in place so that they're not allowing dangerous characters like terrorists or human traffickers into our country. There's a way to balance things out without negatively affecting one side or the other.
Like a quite liberal i'm partially agree but with the terrorists is more a job of the national intelligence. At least the narcos tend to be more obvious with their ilegal wealth, using expensive clothes or things. Talking like an colombian, here the drugs trafficators arent subtle.
Yeah, I agree, I'm from Mexico and recently we began to receive a huge number of imigrants seeking to move to the USA, I can understand the problems they face, but many of them demand things that not even the Mexican government give their own people and then they get angry when they don't get what they want. In the caravan of migrants, many mexicans joined to give them food and water, this caused outrage because we have many people in misery who have no food, and here was a mexican group giving food to foreigners, rather than to their own people, then things got worse when those immigrants decided to throw away their food and water because they wanted pizza and coke. It's not the imigrants' fault per se, but it's horrible when the government gives more to a group of foreigners than to its own people, just to look good at the eyes of other countries or pretend it's humanitarian.
Besides, if they take us down to their level, who's going to rescue them next time, WITH us competing for the rescue? There's a reason to put the oxygen mask on yourself first and THEN put your kid's oxygen mask on. You're no good to them dead.
I’m a political cynic so I know that both sides of the government benefit from migrants and even the criminal element from them. That means more policing, more money, more laws, more bodies to use and abuse.
Those refugee's aid doesn't come at the expense of the Italian people, though. It was the EU that required Italy and a bunch of its other members to take in refugees and so, these shelters are founded with EU money. Now, I do think that the EU should also invest a bunch of its budget into helping its citizens out of homelessness and poverty too. And also stop throwing refugees into shitty ghettos and expect them to survive off well fare cause they can't do that in the long run and so, they often have to rely on crime. If we actually help them receive qualifications and then jobs, they won't have to rely on crime to feed themselves anymore.
"Why is Sarah voiced by a man?" See, if you had watched the first review, you would know why. Apparently a lot of people are missing the parts where I say that my feelings towards real-Zero are different than they are for character-Zero because real-Zero had enough self-awareness to make the show the way he did, portraying himself as not all-knowing and giving other characters, including the armadillo, a chance to properly question his takes. But people are correct when they say I'm misusing the word "liberal." In America, that word has lost a lot of its original meaning and is mostly used as a slang pejorative, similar to "social justice warrior." As far as I can tell, "classical liberal" has take its place in conversations.
i enjoy tour take on the tear along the dotted line and i'm about to start this video, just wanted to say that you are doing awesome work on here, as to the Why is sarah voiced by a man ( there are points she isn't and i didn't notice it on my first watching ) but it was so we can differenciate Zero's story telling with what other people are saying like when Sarah's voice really comes out compared to how Zero is telling the story
8:03 Zero isn’t supposed to be the “good guy”, he just portrays himself as he sees himself, and isn’t afraid in the first place to show all the mistakes he did, putting everything into question. Of course he starts assuming his idea is correct, but isn’t random that in both the conversations with Cesare and Sarah he is left without words. He didn’t see things from their perspective, as you said, and as he did that he starts to realize. He did lack of empathy but then on he tries to undersand their point of view and in my opinion the fact he in the first place portrays all the questionable choices and attitude he had makes it more realistic. Ofc it’s realistic, not 100% real, Zero is the first one to say he is not a reliable narrator due to his connection with the narration, but his perspective allows us to see things in his point of view while leaving space to take other sides. He doesn’t indeed leave a judgement about Cesare, even if he was in the opponent side, and leaves the conversations and events in the show opened for further judges and opinion. One of the things i like about this show is indeed that Zero can portray his point of view while not giving an universal response to everything and leaving the series on a open ending, in order to let everyone have their opinion
I have to say...being Italian and noticing the subtle but significant differences between this and the english version is so interesting. I'm not saying by any means that the English version is bad, but it definitely hits different, especially Sarah's speech. She's way more emotional in Italian, but I suppose makes sense.
Italian here, and not a channel follower. Also, I understand me and Shady have very different political views. One thing I think the commentary gets wrong, or undervalue, is the identity of the other side. Doorags reasoning of "not having empathy" goes only so far. In a scene not shown or talked about in this video Zero literaly says he's calling them nazis because calling someone fascists in Italy has no immediate negative connotation. Let that sink in for a moment. Imagine someone in the US saying: "a slaver can be a good person", something equivalent of what is said in this show. It was not an hyperbole: there are political parties and movements in Italy right now that are fascists, and some are even open about it. So there was no doubt of who the good guys were. Unless you think slavers can have sound arguments.
Well, when the "National Socialists" proper name is used to describe everyone you disagree with it kind of loses it's bite. The empathy bit is more for understanding the other side rather than dismissing them entirely. Calling someone a "WW2 bad guy" is not the beginning of a conversation; it's the end of one.
If you want to understand more about Zero's writing: read his comics. He is a comic writer after all, the two shows on Netflix are almost comics of his in motion. Michele (Zerocalcare) has always been political (as it is for many comic artists here in italy) and never tried to hide it: very clearly what he writes tells his point of view of some aspects of the world, especially italian politics, never he has tried to fake it (to my knowledge). Michele also comes from Roma, the capital city, in the middle of italy: life is different there from Milano or Messina, especially if you were born there! His comics highlight this side of his life as well. Another thing: italian politics work differently than, say, USA politics. It's hard to explain if you never lived in italy and I would ask you to trust me on this: the approach to politics is different, what politics treat is different, because life and cultures are different. This show intended audience is mainly italian, however I think it can be enjoyed by anyone if you understood that Zero is telling his opinion, not undeniable truth. If anyone wants to know more about Michele's works, a quick google research will show you the many books he made (which often have way more pages than the average Marvel comic). A wikipedia search for Zerocalcare's life could also help understand his writing style and decisions. Lastly, Zero's works are made to make the reader (or watcher) think about the topics he brings up, not present a solution to a problem (which often doesn't have only one, like lots of problems in italy tend to have)
So: about the video I have a few things to say very quickly: 1) I’m glad that you are talking about it good job 2) what you do with pasta breaks something like a dozen laws in my country 3) I get why you dislike zero for the way he is but the whole show is made to let you see that he was wrong, I think a lot of his self awareness might have been lost to translation ( the guy he was referring to instead of tuker Carlson is nothing compared to him ) 4) there is a lot of context that you are probably missing especially two things: first the ww2 bad guy are still present and active here since the end of the war and people got used to them so much that he used the n*** therm to describe them to avoid it. Second it’s the video for the politician, here politicians and the media have the great idea to pander a lot on sensitive topics and find the easiest solution to a problem that most of the time doesn’t work ( like when the media tried to blame a double murder by the hands of a student who was suffering social isolation and extreme loneliness using yugioh as the instigator. Or even better when the government tried to solve the problems of school during the pandemic with desks with wheels for every school in the country, instead of reinforcing the school internet infrastructure) I think he was simply refusing to be used as a political tool.
Tucker Carlson isn't even hugely radical, that's the thing. Only his left-wing media peers seem to think that. So the joke comes off as awkward and just kinda whiney in the Eng dub, like they're pants-wetting over the most milquetoast conservative voice ever. But maybe you're right that the original translation might be better. However I don't know Italian politics or pop-culture nor do I even know Italian at all, so much like Shady I can't really watch both dubs to compare.
Agreed. He's missing too much context and the fact that we have literal neo F4scys and the people pictured ARE neo Fascys. Shady also doesn't realize how parties affiliated to ne0 F4scys create artificial scarcity and then use the poor, the LGBT, anyone who doesn't fit in their preferred demographic, not just the immigrants, as scapegoat.
Definitely not my cup of tea, but I appreaciate how tastefully you handled the political side of things. In this climate especially, that’s all but impossible.
The climate can be summed up like this: Middle: I think both sides make good points The left winger shoves the middle Right winger catches the middle “You okay?” Middle says “Yeah” Left winger asks “why are you siding with the enemy?” California recently struck down a bill that would declare child trafficking a serious felony, and somehow the media is trying to make the republicans the villains for trying to stop child trafficking by making it a serious crime, thus meaning harsher sentences for said crime. Makes me wonder what the democrats are hiding since a bill like this should be unanimous. Sound of Freedom is another topic. Why is the media saying that stopping human trafficking, especially of children, somehow a far right stance?
The show calls everybody that has a problem with the immigration nazis and portrays them all as evil violent criminals so he handled it better than the show itself. Also portrays all the arguments people have against the immigration as just lies.
Nah dude Zerocalcare is not the type of guy who does sequels, every kind if story he create is singular without any sequel whatsoever, he himself told that this WAS NOT a sequel to "Strappare lungo i bordi". I don't know how the English adaptation went, but Zero has lots of doubt about himself because he knows he had luck with his life and that's the point because he can't bond with Cesare anymore, in italy sometime if we get lucky in some way we think we didn't deserve our goals and use it as a point to be somewhat morally justified to push ourself down that's why zero isn't so sure about what he wants to do since he thinks he can't blame anyone because he got lucky. In italy we usualy get from: "oh you poor little thing, the world is so meany to you" To "You lucky bastard, why all the good things happens to you, you son of a bitch, all the good stuff to people who don't do shit" Yeah we are kinda messed up. Also. The group of people Zero tries to go against are not just nazis, but some fascists too. In italy the problem of fascism and nazism is still a huge deal, we never really got rid of it, hate crime it's not free speech and try to let people go die in the streets because a government see them as a problem and not them as persons is the most of the point about fascists propaganda, but if the whole place can't even take care about theyr own citizen it's easy to get why some of them may think that people who got in theyr same situation (just faster) are seen as privileged, even tho they are not. The most of the problem about the compriension about the show is contest (yeah the thing people uses as an almighty shield but you got my point) Italy works different (lot worse sometimes to be honest and i am italian) we are in a country ruled by old people with old ideas and old values, trying to stay in this "poddle" if illusory optimism dragged people in terrible situation to think that the problem comes from outside ignoring the fact that the most of the problems are internal to the country itself (great video btw)
“If someone agrees w Zero then he sees them as complicated person while if they disagree with his politician they are just stupid to his point” YOU DIDNT REALLY SAID THAT ??? WTF DUDE, YOU KNOW WHAT FASCISM IS?? That is HATE, HATE SPEECH, CRIME and VIOLENCE?? Also, CESARE?? Sara?? Which disagred with him and Zero makes the whole series about em bc he have empathy and understood that reality isn’t black and white and questioning why Cesare choose to join a violent politic??
Your analysis is good, but you're almost right... It's not about providing for your loved ones first, but about doing the right thing for those who need it. My son ran over a woman 2 years ago, which caused her to lose a leg. I was the one who handed my son over to the police, that was the right thing to do.
I think the two most beautiful things in this whole ordeal are: At the end of the day, the real villains aren't people on either side of the spectrum, but people that spread hate while donning the guise of either side (It's not exactly spoken out loud, but there is a lot of rethoric that only people that grew into the country might get). At the end of the day, it's Secco that gives Zero the talk that actually wakes him the fuck up (Won't spoil it, but it's very nice that the character that even the show dubs as basically being "One note" develops out of it).
Secco was maybe my favorite character. Although I do wonder if making the explosives obsessed guy with a rebellious personality an Irishman (In the english dub) was a coincidence or not.
All I know is regardless of intention whenever a government seeks to "shelter" a large population of people from a different country it ends up horribly for the sheltered (poor living conditions, crowding, nowhere to go) and the country.
Yeah that tends to be the problem with governments doing that, even in the US. Again it's good to help refugees, but don't help them in a way that is that the expense of your nation's citizens. Find a balance that allows the citizens of your country to receive what they need first, while providing reasonable and sustainable aid and support for refugees and asylum-seekers.
Only because governments potentially will do it with good intentions, but no forethought or consideration of intercultural dynamics and the like. America's especially in that vein now, given our population has grown by leaps and bounds and yet we still have segregated areas in terms of race, ethnicity, etc. The interactions create problems more often because of stereotyping and ignorance that people cling to because it's more comfortable.
That is true. It's mainly because the government gives up resources to help what is considered a stranger, but most of the time they have no resources to do it correctly. That enrages the part of the population that needs help too, and sees the stranger getting help First. This show literally shows the Italian mentaility about immigrants. And i say this as an Italian.
@@christianjohnson5379 One major fact that needs to be confronted is that the ones he is claiming are refugees are most likely not. Literally all criminal aliens are NOT refugees. There is a specific set of laws that must be followed, including going to an official point of entry into a country and declaring yourself to be a refugee from a neighboring country (a neighboring country that has been labeled as unsafe and able to be at refugee status). Nearly all criminal aliens are coming for financial benefits and do not count in any refugee laws even if they declared properly. This then brings up the fact that almost none of these people are Mexican or Canadian (many Literally flew in from China, Africa and the Middle East to then illegally enter the country. )which means that they are not refugees.
The shows is showing literal nazis, it isn't a liberal vs conservative thing, it's about how nazi groups, not unlike cults, prey on vulnerable people like Cesare and use them to push their agendas, how politicians won't hesitate to prove their point, and how the press will stage and exacerbate conflicts just so they can have an entertaining story to tell. Like not sure about anyone here, but if an old friend of mine became a freaking nazi, I wouldn't be nearly as understanding as Zero was, Zero was pretty nice to Cesare all things considering. You don't reason with fascists, period.
Feels great to finally have italian animation getting out of the country I will point out a small detail, the original title more closely translates to "this world won't turn me evil"
You know, for reviewing a show you say is opposing to your own political beliefs, you did perfectly. Felt like a genuine and proper honest review, and I can't fault you for anything you said. Good work, Shady.
I respectfully disagree with you. It's true that Zero has his own biases, but he does take the time to stop and question himself "maybe my logic Is wrong or flawed". Also, you putting spaghetti BEFORE the water boils!? YOU MONSTER!!!
This show was both moving and very relatable, to me. I think that Zero and the team made a great effort in delivering a narrative that is intentionally filtered from the eyes of the main character, which explains all the biases, including being able to see complexity sometimes, and completely failing to see it in other cases. That's why I loved so much Sarah's arc, going from a Mary Sue to a "human being". But again, that's intentional. it couldn't be otherwise because that's how Zero sees her. And by the way, we should never EVER justify fascists, and that's one thing I completely agree with the show. It's not a matter of different opinions, it's historically and factually dangerous to let them thrive. No concessions to fascists. Too bad that, as the show brilliantly depicts, one side of politics is comfortable with fascism, and the other one just pretends to do something against it but they don't fucking care.
Really the scene about Sarah not being able to teach is much more depressing to me because, at least where I live, all of my previous teachers really took that job because there was nothing else to do
I have a good friend from my past who is pretty similar to the Caesare of the show. Not politically, but more of a "tough guy" who wasn't allowed to be anything else but the tough guy and ended up with a drug problem. It kinda felt like I was watching my friend and his life problems as a cartoon version, which I don't think have ever seen before. I also found the protagonist annoying, but overall I think the two powerful scenes where he get's told off for not empathising make up for it pretty well. Credit where credit is due, at least he is humble enough to show himself as someone who can be wrong. What I could be annoyed by and which I was while watching is the justification of political violence of those who claim to be the "heroes". Tho seeing it as it is stories from his life, political violence sadly has it's tradition in Europe and protesters brawling in the streets is still seen as a normal behaviour among the extremist groups.
The people never ask the migrants at all, and there’s always a stigma planted by the media that distracts us or tries to goad us into doing something stupid that they can use to gain more power. Politicians would think twice if they were mandated to participate in the migrant housing programs, meaning their own properties would be used to house the migrants first.
it's pretty common in stories where the author is the narrator to embellish the people they see in the wrong as strawmen. Simple jerks who need to be beaten down and who's opinion is always in the wrong so that the protagonist can be a squeaky clean hero who fights for "good". What makes this show however is that the author makes the strawman and antagonist his own self insert. Zero is the one who is always talking down to others, even if his cause is coming from a good place he is depicted as narrow minded, selfish, and so obsessed with being right that he completely devalues others around him who don't take his side while being a hypocrite to his own ideals. I think it's a pretty bold move there.
I may be understanding your comment wrong but i don't think you understand who the antagonists are, they are neo-fascists, they kill and beat peoples just becouse they look or act different on the basis, this is a day to day problem in rome, those peoples wanted like 30 peoples with some children that had escaped from their country and had walked for days witouth water out on the streets, i don't think those peoples deserve to be emphatized with, hell they beated up Cesare (blond guy) just becouse he had a slightly different opinion from them (not wanting those immigrants away becouse they where black/indian/not italian). It's like saying "oh he's a racist nazi but you still need to respect his opinion" only difference It's not an opinion it violence on other people's rigths to live
In the original italian there is no mention of Tucker Carlson. Nobody in Italy knows who Tucker Carlson is. This is a problem with dubbing things full of cultural references. You're not just missing out on the subtleties of the original language, you could also misinterpret entire scenes which in turn could lead to misinterpreting the entire series. There is no way an italian could have the reaction that you had over a name like Massimo Giletti. This is between you and the english translators, Zerocalcare had no part in it.
11:56 Silly take tbh , if this based on his life experience why wouldnt it be that way ? if he learned that lesson of course he'd be self aware when retelling the story
I think you are forgetting that the bad guys in this cartoon are litteral fascists (I know that the term is very abused, but in this case it's true, those are a group of people that, proudly, self identify as fascists).
Knowing the context in Rome where the story is based, I'm 90% sure that those guys were meant to represent militants from Casa Pound and Forza Nuova, which are not just conservatives, but thugs proudly praising Mussolini and Hitler and do not refrain from acts of violence, so actual fascist, not the progressive liberals' idea of "fascists". Saying this as a conservative who's quite critical of the left.
They are "literal fascists" in the eyes of a clearly biased narrator. We can't say if they truly are or not because the only perspective we have to the situation is one that benefits from "the bad guys" being blatantly evil. How did you miss that fact?! Shady bluntly stated that was how the show operates several times throughout the reveiw.
@christianknight1649 I suppose you are not familiar with Italian politics (unfortunately a lot is lost in translation), those guys are supposed to be members of Casa Pound or Forza Nuova. Italian political movements that operate like in the show. They proudly call themselves fascists, and aim bring back fascism to Italy.
As an Italian viewer, I'm in love with this blessed cultural/artistic connection. Zero is a great Italian voice, perhaps the best voice for Italian millennials (as much as I hate putting generations and people in boxes). Thank you @ShadyDoorags !!! Also, 2.35 hit mercilessly hard =) BTW, it's totally fair that you don't like Zero at times (I think): even Zero don't like Zero, often! ahaha It's like a comedic/poignant view of how clueless Zero/we all are in spite of our best intentions and that the situation here (and in much of the western world) is so dicey and fuuuuu*d. Here in Italy, it's almost common place to wax poetic about how the past generation was so well off in the way of housing, work, uni and such and such. But as a millennial myself, at times I too feel like a comedic/tragic hero that can't but celebrate his cluelessness and lack of results on the world at large, in spite of my best efforts: that feels like most of what we were given. I will add that in an atomized world, it's easy for people's confusion (even with their most partisan views, either side of the fence) to become an instrument in the hands of those who _really_ don't want anything to change. Another common adage, here in Italy, is that people root for political parties the way they root for football teams ahahah With that said, I don't have a background in anything and don't know most things, but it's just really nice to be part of the convo in this very cool space you created!
14:48 Shady, I wonder what you had to give up in the past. Because you saying that it hurts hits it head on. Can totally relate. Nothing like feeling like a person who just takes up space, having to live like a nihilist, or worse, feeling like a parasite to your loved ones because they see you suffering from what they and others have told you to do and they don't support you through it. They just tell you to love that swing shift and shut up or get out.
To be honest, I liked Zero, it's normal that there are people who will completely disagree with a matter as delicate as this, but something that I like about him is that he constantly doubts his own point of view, thanks to Cesare, and at the end he is the only one, or at least that we know, that talks to the immigrants. Yes, he is not going to emphasize with everyone who thinks contrary to him, but I do not think it is necessary either, those people are not going to try to empathize with him either, or listen to him. The protagonist is obviously not perfect, but at least what I like about his character is that he tries to improve and do what he thinks is best, talk to the people around him to get another point of view.
I always appreciate more nuance in these political discussions, because most often it all ammounts to "You're being ignorant, short-sighted, overly simplistic and dumb based on what someone else told you... I'm now going to tell you an oversimplified and dumb version of events and ask you to blindly believe it."
@@vasco2387People are fascists for a reason, it's not like they've never considered or heard any other political ideology. If you just act like their short sighted and dumb they're not going to listen to you. You have to assume that they have the best possible reasons for being fascist and show how those reasons aren't accurate, or show how other ideologies more effectively help them in the ways they need.
@@711Milkman most of the times, when people are blindly fascist, it's because they are just ignorant. I experienced it myself, it's not like they studied multiple ideologies and chose the most fitting for them, they are just ignorant about tge others, and, most of the times, they are ignorant about their ideology too
9:50 what he said is true 100% cause in the uk we have the goverment giving homes to so called migrants while brits or vetrens are on the street homeless the goverment should help its citizens first and foremost and he isnt wrong about the migrants hurting people cause it has happened
Same in the US. Massive homelessness problem and a constant need for more work. But there are housing programs specifically for illegal immigrants, and the main argument against preventing illegal immigration is "they're doing jobs Americans don't want to do."
@@MrDj232 yea cause they get paid under the table, which means its cheaper for companies, and for the workers get screwed, also the programs are paid by tax payers, which both the companies and illegals arent paying into it, which means the illegals are subsidized by govt tax payers and companies profit, cause you wont work for less wages, but if you got housing/food/bills subsized then less wages dont bother you cause you have less bills...being rich is measured in 2 ways, 1, you have money and can afford anything and everything, and the other is you have no expenses, if you have no reason to pay for bills to live, but you have a home, food, clothing, wifi, then you can be broke but all your needs are met. you wont have a yacht but you wont be starving...
@@MrDj232Well, maybe we all can stop building more Walmarts, Tescos, and ASDA crap and build more shelters for both groups. It's always corporate corruption.
It's weird because the UK DOES have the dole and public housing for poor citizens, so it just seems like the natural extension. Buuut yeah when they don't behave, they need to be policed way harder. Instead of the opposite. One thing that's tough is that, objectively, it's cheaper to just pay people to not be so poor. Just like it's cheaper to pay our enemies not to fight wars with us.. but that's also a _perpetual_ payment and completely giving up on solving the problem. buuut.. isn't this show Italian? ... last time I checked, Italy is surviving 100% on charity from Germany. Used to be Germany and UK, but UK pulled out. Not my kid, I'm not providing support.
I'm familiar with zero calcare's comics and Rome, i just think you all absolutely cannot read the Rome's local political environment through american political cateogories. It's just another world. Italian neo-fascism is usually not just far right wing. Specificly Zero comes form Rome's suburbs where there are strong and rooted fasist, anarchist and comunist movements. However, the point is they all esist as groups of social politics, not as aspiring government politicians or public intelectuals. Aslo fascists there tend to be extremely violent, and often things end up being violent from both parts.
I actually enjoyed both shows. A lot of the time I watch netflix shows while doing something else and just listen to them but for Tear Along The Dotted Line and This World Can't Tear Me Down I actually sat down and watched both shows (Seasons?) cause it collected my attention and made me feel kinda like Zero even the things I was annoyed at felt like some crap I'd do and regret later on after i've discovered i'm in the wrong.
Btw Zero calls them fascists because that's what they call themselves. It's about an extemist group that actually exist in Italy that thinks "it was better when Mussolini was alive, he cared about italians first". Nedless to say none of these people were alive back than and the fact that someone thinks this is true is insulting to the italians who fought against fascism. This is also why Zero seems so onesided, because it's the italian equivalent of people supporting kkk in the US. No matter the argument, it's very likely they're doing so to justify the urge of being violent and blame something else..... As if doing so will help them forgetting how bad our politics are. Thanks Sara for pointing it out.
Ok massive props to you shady for being just absolutely maniacal like that and triggering your Italian fans 😂 (obviously I have nothing against Italians I love all people and cultures i just know how specific Italians are about cooking and while I don’t know all the dos and don’ts I do know that you don’t break the noodles in half and you don’t put them in before the water starts boiling so i just got a good laugh because of that so thanks for making me day a whole lot better shady you always do❤)
@@addison_v_ertisement1678 Nah, he's got a good point. Any culture out there that encourages cannibalism probably should be shunned at least a *little* bit. (And yes, they exist. Even in 2023)
The fact about spaghetti noodles is that you're supposed to pick them by rolling your fork in it. When you break them they become short and you won't be able to eat them like that, they also slip continuously from the fork and- seriously, how the hell you eat broken spaghetti? It's a genuine question, because it's torture to eat them like that, it's a war between the fork and the noodles
For those few interested in the current situation in Italy in order to better understand the political context: As an Italian, I can say that I completely agree that tearing down those posters was not the right thing to do. The right to freedom of speech must always be guaranteed. However, I believe that unfortunately, the English dubbing doesn't capture the essence of this season. The word "fascists" was lost in translation. It's not about conservative people, it's about extremists. Unfortunately, I think that without knowledge of Italian history in the 20th century and the current political dynamics in Italy, it's difficult to understand. We were under a dictatorship for 20 years, and some of us don't want to go back to that, regardless of political orientation. "Apologia of fascism" is the act of promoting or justifying a political ideology based on national supremacy, authoritarianism, and discrimination and is a crime in Italy, precisely to protect ourselves from returning to a fascist dictatorship or similar situation and the people in the protest march with their right arm raised were doing exactly that. That being said, our country currently has a conservative government, but the type of government doesn't really matter. I was born in 2000, And already at that time there haven't been politicians who truly care about the people for so looong. I can also say that the issue of migrants in Italy is complex because we are a peninsula in a strategic location in the Mediterranean sea, and we are targeted by human trafficking from the African continent. Many migrants arrive here and sometimes thousands die during these journeys. Often, their goal is to reach other destinations in Europe, but unfortunately, other European countries prevent them from entering, leaving us with the so called "problem." This situation is also exploited by the mafia and politics. In the recent years, some politicians have promoted ideologies close to fascism, which have led to strong racism from the far-right. Unfortunately fascist propaganda never dies. Since I was born, I don't remember a decent government that truly cared about the well-being of the country and its people. I repeat, the type of political orientation doesn't matter anymore. There is no longer any political orientation in Italy, only corruption, cocaine, mafia, and the fight against our rights as individuals. Even those fortunate enough to have a job with a decent salary earn $1100 per month, which becomes $900 after taxes, and they can't support an entire family on that. So they have to find additional jobs that no longer exist. We are sinking lower, and despite all this, our politicians go around Europe talking about the beautiful country that no longer exists and how great we were. Oh, but the food is good, that's for sure. Come and see the Colosseum, the marble is the only thing that's left. Oh no, they've even stolen that.
I think this series was more intended for Italian use than the first one. Politics in Italy don't work as they do in the US or the UK, so without knowledge on the matter, things might be easily misunderstood. For example: due to historical reasons, Fascism is by Constitution illegal in Italy.
Bro we are talking about fascist. People who beat up Black people in the streets. It’s a serious matter in Italy and you can’t compare them to the conservatives in the USA.
Italian politics (or European politics in general) is very different from the American one, the fascism described in "this world won't make me bad" is real and dangerous. There may be Zero's bias but it has fully... and in any case I wouldn't call it "liberal" at all. They are seen by us as the right but a bit progressive
I agree with your analysis. It is quite of a "new thing" (at least for the small amount of tv shows I watch) to have a show that tied to the protagonist (with a non-pure-hero protagonist), and people will feel pissed off often when his opinion is not their own also, but ZC really is good at showing how we do act in the same (wrong) ways (being entitled AF, maybe from the opposite political side). As a leftist, we often lean towards pure abstraction and pure ethics when discussing any topic, and in my opinion he shows very well how this is not the way we should see things. I do like the stress of how reality is not black and white, which is a problem affecting EVERY country's politics nowadays.
I guess Zero's behavior may sound odd for USA viewers, but for us in Southern Europe it was assumed. The entire cartoon (and comic) are drown in a style that here is immediately recognizable from communist and anarchist fanzines, or at least far left wing satirical magazines (the author had indeed worked in Italian publications along those lines). There is an archetype of "youth" associated with those publications, that includes left wing politics but also adherence to the methods, postures and attitudes you mention in Zero. It is a package. Most of us growing in the south in the 2000s knew people like this and recognize the archetype, like Americans would recognize an emo girl. We already assumed that Zero (and the author) were like that to an extent just from how he is coded. For me the 2 season feels like Zero as an adult engaging with old views he never fully re examined or dissociated himself from. To which extend the author is aware of the shortcomings of his former linings and is portraying them, and to which extend he isn't, doesn't seem to matter that much to me, since the portrayal is clear and honest.
Okay, well. Zero remembering his 'side' as the good guys and the 'other side' as the bad guys is sort of expected. He's telling it how he remembers it. People's memories get distorted over time. It's kind of the point of both this series and the previous one.
I belive that not being Italian makes you lose important pieces to fully understand the show, in my opinion the two groups were perfectly represented, what you don't understand is that those "bad guys" are not conservatives, they are extremists, neo fascists activists, Italy is the country where the concept of extreme right, fascism and consequently most of the ideals of Nazism were born, Italy has become very polarized in the last 20 years expecially on the migrants emergency, and the concept of conservatives and progressives that they have for example in the states is very limiting, the story you saw in the show is a very faithful cross-section of today's Italy, and so are the two groups, it should also be kept in mind that the show shows a scenareo of activism, protests and fights, in which usually the moderates don't take parts, honestly the only fictitious character in the show for me is cesare
@@pippopino6948 People always go on about how extreme American politics are, so it's almost refreshing to be reminded that we are fucking milktoast compared to the rest of the world.
Can we talk about how the people Calcare strongly disegrees with are literally Neo-Nazis? How are you supposed to reasonably speak with people who are literally asking for a goup of people who have been through Hell and back to be cast away after years of not finding a place where they can stay, not to mention that they literally have no fault at all in what happened to them.
The point is that many of them (sadly not all) are indeed NOT fascist, but they are slandered as them to avoid the need of a proper confrontation with people having different ideas...
@@Beregorn88Not all of them, there's a lot of people who probably have a similar situation to Sarah who don't hate the immigrants but feel like throwing them out is the solution to their problems. When it comes to minorities, usually the ones who display the largest amount of antagonism towards them are the working class because they are fed with the idea that those immigrants are there to take their jobs and bring crime, things that as a poor or lower middle-class individuals is the last that you need, and that is used by those hate groups to recruit them into their numbers.
@@ThyFloorestFloor for fuck's sake those are fascists. Groups from casa pound, forza nuova with litteral svastikas and fasci littorali over themselves, it's not Mark from the gas station that votes right and doesn't like darkies, it's people who would love to bring back the gas chambers. I swear on god american cannot distinguish one from the other because they didn't go throu it.
@@Beregorn88 No, they are 100% fascists. They're literally, explicit fascist organizations, which seem to be what these kind of """"analysis"""" like in the video (always assumed analysis required research when there's stuff in it you're not familiar with, silly me) are totally missing
You missed one part about Cesare: he might have turned to drugs to suppress that he might be gay. That talk with Zero at the steps really revealed a lot about him. He might as well be the tragic main character of the story instead of Zero this time around.
Personally, I liked that Zero was way more unlikable. As someone who agrees with almost all of his views, I am way more realistic like Sarah is and understand that life is way more complicated and sticking to your principals at the sacrifice of your own comfort is not something anyone can do, especially if they've been struggling for a while. Though, I do agree, I wished they didn't make the bad guys so obviously bad guys, while I liked Cesare as an example of what realistically some people who turned into Nazis are like, I wish they didn't just make the rest of the people who disagree with Zero just brain dead Nazis. I wish they showed more complexity with the opposition to Zero and his group. One thing I really felt relatable to Zero though, was when he tried to talk down to Sarah and Cesare because like Zero, I was able to have success and comfort early in my life based on a lot of good luck. I feel like shit talking to my friends who are struggling paycheck to paycheck or suffering mental health problems. Like what right do I have to talk to them about success when the only thing keeping me from being like them was just knowing the right person at the right time? I was once like them, but I admit my success makes me feel a bit detached from what people struggling are going through. I liked that Zero makes himself a target of a lot naïve "leftist"/"liberal" thinking that you should just "do the right thing" without considering all the consequences. Illegal immigration and migrant refugee problems aren't just brought up because people are Nazis or racists. As a lefty who lives in Texas, I understand both sides of the issue and how heated the debate can get. I've met and engaged with people on both sides of this issue and understand their opinions. I wish more people understood and that's what I liked about "This World can't tear me down", is it biased? Hell yes, but I see this as having a little more nuanced discussion than most shows have on this topic than just "anti-immigrant = bad guy". It isn't as perfect as the first series, but I liked the interactions and discussion brought up in this season.
i also think it's not as perfect and tear along but at the same time , i feel it hits better if we take it seriously that it's mostly as he remembers and that as he says , he is biased because perspective isn't unbiased , we can't really make him remember differently after all , probably there could've been better touches if it wasn't the case story telling wise as you said but I feel like the value as a recollection of events keeps it more... authentic , honest per say.
the big problem with this in contrast with "tear along the doted line" it's still interpersonal but take a lot in to politics, and not understanding makes difficult understanding it.
This is something that I see a lot with the two side mindset. It can be easy to get it caught up in the "my side is right and your side is wrong" idea but not be able to realize that your actions aren't reflecting your ideals. If I say that I am a democrat, then I am expected to vote and act in a way that might not actually be how I want and same with Republican. It's a conversation worth having, but if real life isn't that black and white then there should be more than two sides.
That is true but one think that I can see from all the comment outside of Italy is that you guys have a very bland definition of fascists. The people Zero is referring to are a call to the associates of 2 specific political parties "casa pound" and "foza nuova" the first one even had an illegally occupied government building as it's main party office that had to be forcefully vacated 3 years back. These are not branded fascists by the opposition. These are pople that call themselves fascist, that think that Mussolini was in the right, ultra conservative and dogmatic catholics that believe that the italian race is superior to all the others. These are not the people that wants to use the n word in public, these are the people that go in the streets chanting "kill all n*****s" with face covered and metal pipes in hand. So when zero is talking about not listening to them is not saying "I'm right and they are wrong" is trying to avoid the spread of hateful and dangerous ideologies that are by definition illegal and incostitutional in our country. It's a nouance and it does not take away from your comment but I just wanted to point it out because this series has a wholw different meaning if you really know the context of it
Only problem that here specificaly there are 2 sides, and in this case those peoples that wanted the refugees out where literal nazi@s, those peoples kill on the regular just becouse you act or look different from them, in italy is a day to day problem
"So the animated series I liked I don't anymore because it turned out to be politically leftist", do you only like characters that agree with your worldview? At the beginning you say how the show just puts everyone who doesn't agree with Zero as blanket "bad guys" but obviously that's not the case because Cesare and Sarah both have their arguments laid out showing us that the matter is more complicated than it seems. The only ones who didn't get their point across were the nazis and I don't think you think it's vital to the show for them to go through their talking points. That said, the setting of the story it's about a different kind of politics and being from a different world, we shouldn't pass judgement on the actions of the characters. e.g. you said Zero shouldn't have ripped apart those posters because "freedom of speech" but when done against people that use political violence I would think it is justified.
Being proud of not doing research seems...like a weird flex, especially if the intent is to try and not have a divisive political discussion: by which you mean partisan, but conflate that word with political, which isn't the same thing except in particular execution.
Which become apparent when he treats actual fascist organizations known for their aggressivenes and violence (literally hundreds of assaults against minorities and other political groups in the last years) as a legit organization that has a "right to free speech" and Zero as being intolerant toward them for ripping off their posters. I wonder what he would think about the KKK propagandizing in his block, would he defend their free speech too? The show does indeed show and address Zero's flaws and hypocrisies, that's not one of them tho
Thank you Shady!! I watched “Tear along….” B/C of your review and am in the middle of watching the other..(“This world…”). I appreciate what you do! Cheers and Blessings Bro. Shady D.!
I wanted to watch the video because I am a huge Zerocalcare's fan and I like to look at what people outside of Italy think and I enjoyed the previous video. That said, I had to stop at the second premise because I understood that the vast majoriy of Americans can't even comprehend basic political theory, let alone the nuances of italian local politics and the refugee chrisis. The sad part is that's not even your fault, but the criminal work of a political class that is completely in the pocket of the same capitalists that benefitted from you not being able to understand the extend towards wich they oppress every single one of the rest of you, or the atrocities upon wich your empire stands. Completely in good faith I wanted to clarify a few things: 1) No: you're not a capitalist if you work on TH-cam and sell merch, because you don't own the servers and factory used to host, manufacture or distribute said products. You're a proletarian like us mortals selling your labour for less value than what said companies make from it. 2) Liberalism is the ideology that values the right to private property as a fundamental human right, as opposed to socialism. Socialism is an umbrella term for all the ideologies that think that the means of production should be communally owned, be it by a State like in marxism-leninism, or by various forms of orizzontal spontaneous organizations, like in anarchism. All the founding fathers were liberals taking inspiration from contemporary French repubblican (as opposed to monarchists) philosophers 3) Italy has a glorious past of left wing antagonistic opposition: - from 1921 to 1925, the "People's Daring Ones" fought against the rising of fascism with their lives and from '43 to '45 various cities in Northern Italy resisted and succesfully liberated themselves from the Fascist State. - During the '60s the workers' and students' movements grew a lot really fast, culminating in the "Years of Lead" that ended at the beginning of the '80s. During those years the CIA and Italian secret services funded and directly partecipated in terrorist bombings executed by various neofascist organizations. That was ment to provoke a reaction from the left in order to split it between revolutionaries and reformists - In these days (07/19-07/21) of 2001 the G8 summit held in my home town of Genoa saw massive protests from the No Globals (to wich Zero partecipated). The State answered with blind violence: on the 20th a protestor was shot dead by a policeman (here it's something strange), thousands, including the retiree's march, were savagely beaten in the street. At night they broke in a school where the authorized organizers of the protests set up the media centre and dormitory and left what reporters described as a "Mexican butchery" So yeah, the problem isn't the language barrier, it's really a cultural one 'cause you don't even bother to educate yourself in what happens outside of your borders
"It is possible to commit no mistakes, and still lose. That is not weakness, that is life."
Words of wisdom from a british frenchman. You are a gentleperson and a scholar.
nah that just sounds like a match of XCOM
I'm just gonna continue sulking like Achilles in his tent anyway. I should have beaten that bastard at Strategema.
that's by definition a lack of power
@@viciousrape If you understood the reference you wouldn't be saying that.
As an italian, I love that more people outside of Italy are enjoying this show
It is my favorite western adult show, good shit mate.
It's good shit.
As an Italian myself, im not. Zerocalcare is overrated as fuck
Tis good shit
Thanks and for the video! I'm Italian and I'm happy that this series is watched and analyzed even outside my country.
I have been following Zero Calcare for a long time and I would like to give you a suggestion, if you allow me:
do not assume that Zero Calcare and his motivations are represented only by the protagonist, Zero. The author is also inside Sara, Secco and inside Cesare and uses these characters as a narrative pretext to talk about a very complex situation. Zero is only the point of view of the narrative, the starting point, but as the series progresses, he demonstrates his contradictions and crashes against the arguments of the other characters. This is why it is not important to agree with Zero's ideas to enjoy the story.
Greetings from Italy.
The fact the Zero establishes he is a hypocrite and unreliable narrator actually makes the story more interesting and realistic. It also makes it easier to not hold things against him because the person Zero is the one pointing these things out. He isn’t trying to cover it up. Perhaps the show is a form of therapy for him as well.
Yes he stated it’s therapeutic for him
No , not really . Just because you acknowledge you are a hypocrite , does not justify you being a hypocrite . And such argument is extra useful in this situation because even known zero acknowledges he is a hypocrite and bias in his beliefs , he still is set to be the "right guy" in the show . So it does not make it better . Since his morals are basically - "well i know that there are problems BESIDES refugees needing shelters , but i still gotta ignore them because reasons" .
@@Chuchel-hh6hq"The right guy"? Did you even watch the show? There were many times in the show where Zero gets called out for being wrong. Hell, you can see all of that in the video you are commenting on!
@@Chuchel-hh6hq man, hypocrisy is literally the only thing that disappears the moment you acknowledge it. An hypocrite can never say "I am being an hypocrite", because that would be honest.
@@a.f.schmied1571I think that’s the wrong definition for this context. Hypocrisy is to believe A is the correct action under X conditions, or at least claim it to be, while instead doing Y yourself under those same conditions. Because of this hypocrisy isn’t always a character flaw in and of itself, as a person can have an area of failure where they don’t do as they state they should. In this case attempting to improve will result in a period of hypocrisy. When it becomes problematic is when pride or manipulation is added to the mix, where-in the person excuses themselves from having to live up to their own standards or uses their stated instructions to manipulate the behavior of others.
Zero is not a liberal, he's more of an anarchist. He started making political comics and punk concerts fanzines. He's always been political, it's probably his most recognisable trait.
For an American, there is nothing more left-wing than a liberal and anything more right-wing than a Southern Republican. That's why I can't fully understand a show like this
An anarchist who wants the government to house immigrants
That's kind of the opposite of anarchy though
@@MaxStirner123Bad take. While it is true that the American left seems to be unable to comprehend anything to the right of themselves, publicans and American conservatives completely understand the gamut of leftism.
It's part of the reason why we are upset, how are Democrats have lurched significantly leftward over the last decade, including open border policies and attempts at legalizing pederasty.
These aren't "liberal", which is why we now typically use the term "leftist".
@@MaxStirner123 liberals aren't left wing, they're right wing but moderate, while republicans are generally far right. The difference between the two is very thin and neither try to break this oppressive system called late capitalism. People like me and Zero want an equal world free from capitalism as it is not the only system that society can use. Zero is a radical leftist because he doesn't want to change many aspects of capitalism for the better but he wants to eradicate it from its origins and put another system in place.
bro zero is not liberal its more on the comunist side because in italy there is the right that are facist centre are catholichs and left are socialis/comunist i know this bacauase i am italian
Fun fact for y'all non italian fellas: the name Zero Calcare was chosen randomly by the artist back in the day, and the two words were an old slogan used for a limescale remover, it means in fact zero limescale and it's not an actual name. Pretty important detail if you ask me since there's a lot of people who think that Zero is the name of the protagonist and also a cool ass name but that wouldn't fit the character, it's just the abbreviation of "Zero Limescale"
he acts like he's in the right and the other is in the wrong, but the viewer is never left with the idea he's acting the best. That's the whole point. It's one person's perspective, it's going to be that way and the story doesn't want you to agree with him, it just shows you stuff through him and this limit of his view is part of the story, because all of us have that limit
To be fair to Zero, the Tucker Carlson joke was an idea of the translator, probably to make the original joke understandable to english-speaking watchers. The original joke instead of Carlson had Massimo Giletti, an italian TV presenter that does afternoon shows for families and housewives. While Giletti is thought to be somewhat right-leaning, he is in no way an outspoken right-wing pundit like Carlson. Quite the opposite: Giletti never even made explicit political statements and is viewed mostly as a productor of seemeingly innocuous, non-controversial centrist content aimed at a middle-aged public. He is a bit like Crocodile in the show: a symbol of political apathy and anesthetized conscience if you like.
Basically, in the italian version the joke had Zero diluting his political passion to the point of apathy and inertia, while in the english version it has him make a U-turn and embrace conservatism entirely. I think the translation misses the point of the joke since this kind of transformation is not realistic: many young lefitists lose passion for politics and become more and more moderate with age, and the joke plays on the ever presente fear of young people to become like their parents.
I probably would have used someone like Dr Phil, instead of Carlson.
Thank you so much for this explanation. As a non Italian who absolutely loves this show, I felt like the Tucker Carlson joke was a bit absurd (I get Zero's inner conflict that it is kinda shitty to forget about your friend in jail, but the whole "turning into a conservative Darth Vader" thing was a bit much). When explained like you did it makes a hell of a lot more sense
Carlson is the man. Be a cuck if you want but that automatically means you need to shut your mouth rather than open it as if you're a man.
Wow bravo on this explanation
@@XulOnerom exactly
I like the allegory of the crocodile because it's a clear relation with the child song "Il coccodrillo come fa"(what the crocodile say) Basically he is so centrist that's like the crocodiles verses, undefinable
The problem is perhaps of a cultural nature, in Italy fascism is a crime (at least in theory) so when you have a friend who calls himself a fascist it is a much heavier thing in Italy than it is in the United States perhaps, imagine that in Germany (or in the United States) a friend of yours declared himself a neo-Nazi, there you would begin to better understand Zero's behavior. If I see a neo-Nazi manifesto, I tear it up, I'm not thinking about freedom of thought.
Fascism is a crime in Italy? Do you mean an act of fascism? Or do you mean the actual belief of fascism? If it's the latter than that's a very horrible law to have, no matter how immoral a belief system is, we don't have a right to be controlling people's conscience and punishing them for their views and beliefs. Fascism, communism, both of these are bad, but we can't force people to not believe in these ideologies in their private lives, neither should we suppress them if they choose to speak publicly about them. Unless those beliefs inspire them to commit violent actions, we shouldn't punish them for merely having those views.
Right? I was so bothered when he dismissed it as just "seeing things on a manifesto he didn't like" or "people disagreeing with him". These are out-and-proud roman-salute fascists who explicitly want the government to stop helping refugees seeking asylum. There's nothing redeemable about their political agenda, and it would be unacceptable to just let it take hold unchallenged (and no, politely disagreeing isn't challenging enough when your opponents are willing to resort to violence, or threaten violence against vulnerable people).
Now, individual people DO have redeeming qualities, and that's the whole point of Cesare's arc. He's a young man with good intentions and a sensitive nature who went through a lot of crap and fell victim to propaganda. It's not that he's the only fascist with a complex history, but he's used as an example on how you can (and should) condemn violent political ideology while showing compassion to individuals
@@a.c.1839 Yes, the fact Cesare is not a bad person its like a Lesson of "The ideology can be horrible, but maybe the person behind it its desperate".
Its interesting how, specially with the Refugee Crisis, both the refugees and the ppl of the asylum country suffer the same problem: How the governments act.
I'm not saying neo-nazis or ppl who just take advantage of a country giving asylum (like many European ones like Sweden or England) don't exist...
But i liked how at the end the series gave us a general criteria, showing us how the crisis affected the characters but in different way.
if you're ideology can't compete and shut down fascism/Nazism with it's own ideas and beliefs, you need to find a new ideology cause that one sucks ass. the main problem is most people have to go to an extremes (especially here in the states) cause there is no middle man group. there is no political party looking out for the normal people in the country, they all either want to give money to minorities or foreigners or just to themselves and no one at all, and in the bucket of crab theory people would rather see no one get money especially their tax money than see it be given to others who don't even contribute to the fund.
It is a cultural thing, because in America we are not suppose to react with violence to those we disagree with. Even if they are Nazis or Commies. But people have forgotten this and only attack each other now. Sadly Europe loves to jail people for wrong think instead of trying to talk with them and convincing them about their wrongs.
Honestly, I say you missed the point. It's not that Zero feels justified, it's that he has the same problems for the first series. He desperately wants to do the right thing, but can't stop himself from putting the entire world on his shoulders. Characters are constantly telling him to cut the moralizing and stop being the second coming. He needs to just be a regular person and help like everyone else.
Pontificating is often a problem with those who think they're in the right and don't have perspective. And confirmation bias doesn't make that better either, sadly, when a person doesn't always recognize it
I agree, I think the moral of the series might be summarized as: people are complicated, we all have many different reasons to do what we do. But still there are things that are undeniably wrong, even though you can understand "why" a person does them, this doesn't make them ok.
Secco's speech before the confrontation kinda conveys that, when he asks around to the people why they are there and nobody there os presented as some kind of saint, there's no such thing as "heroes" in the real world, but there is decency.
I would like to add that most Italians have this "moral high-ground" stand, where they feel above others when thinking to be in the right, it's also an issue in discussions and sometimes in workplaces, but as the shows has demonstrated, sometimes all it takes is to just talk and listen, to fix this up, sadly most people forget about it.
Its genuinely commendable for the guy to paint himself in a bad light and actually display nauance to real world issues. Props to the writer.
Honestly I think that the fact you can dislike Zero this time around is coherent with what it tries to tell, there are many moments in the series where Zero comes to the realization that he has no moral high ground and trying to preach others on certain things only makes him an hypocrite. Cesare tells him that, Sara tells him that, even Secco and the Armadillo tell him that, all of them telling it in their own ways and with different points to their arguments.
And by the way, what you're doing to spaghetti is a sin against humanity
I actually think the fact that Zero fails to feel any "empathy" to his opponents is not a character flaw but a rather realistic representation of a real person. People easily empathize with folks in there ingroup but almost immediately refuse to give the same benefit tonthe other or the outgroup. It's a very wide spread phenomenon. I think even you, Shady, follow the same pattern.
It's a realistic representation of a real character flaw people have, yes
It's not a character flaw. It's a Simple normal Human Behavior.
Things were not just lost in translation, they were lost in the mid of the cultural exchange. Zero doesn't call those guys "Nazis" because he's a "liberal" (he's not, he's much, much decisively a left winger) and he he recurs to reductio ad Hitlerum every time somebody says something he doesn't like. The "antagonists" of the show are, plain and simple, the typical Italian nazis. You could identify them with existing, well known groups such as Forza Nuova or Casapound, and those guys are nasty for real. 50 years ago their analogues used to engage in terrorism and today, in an age when extremists realized killing innocents is not really an optimal strategy, they are still quite violent groups and they openly ask for ethnic, religious and cultural cleansing in Italy and still honour Mussolini and the not funny mustache guy. That's very clear in the show, at least for us Italians: when Zero goes to the local city hall pretty much every politician who is there doesn't share his views, and a third of them is actually right leaning, but he doesn't call them "Nazis", because they aren't, and he knows that. The look and the symbols of the nazis in the show are very distinctive, in the eyes of the Italian viewers (and I guess of Europeans as a whole) they will be instantly recognized.
This is definitely a great cartoon but it's biggest issue is that it is based in references, so unless you're familiar with the culture it is really easy to get lost. Which makes in inaccessible to a lot of people.
Just so everyone knows: Zerocalcare has always been political, and you must remember that in Italy, Fascism is still very present at all level of society (Meloni is from Fascist upbringing).
The point is: he acts like he's in the right until he finds out that he was actually wrong, or misinformed, or that he had not considered another side of the matter. That's actually the point of the whole series: you do your best, but sometimes the others are doing their best and end-up being against you. And very often the people by your side are not the best either (and never trust politicians who say they are on your side).
Wish someone would make a Show like this from the Radical Leftist Perspective.
I'm not Italian....but Shady, for heaven's sake, what you're doing to Spaghetti noodles is WRONG. 😂🤣😂🤣
i have to cancel him with my magic wokescold powers.
...I break my noodles in half.
I'm not sorry.
As an Italian American, it's clearly a skill issue on his end as a non-Italian
I have to break them in half they don’t cook evenly because the pot I use most often causes them to stick out. It does make it easier to stir though, and the rest of my family ends up taking less because it looks like a bigger pile, leaving more for me.
If that's wrong then I don't wanna be right lmao
Also my pot is just usually too small to cook them whole or else part of the noodles are sticking out and I hate that.
I have no interest in this show but I'm watching for you, Shady. I'm one of those weirdos.
Same
Same ,there's lots of weirdos like us here ha
Weirdo's together.
The show lost my interest at Netflix, but yeah I love watching Shady!
same
Obliviously the political side of the show is for Italian politics where fascism was INVENTED, the first fascist was BENITO MUSSOLINI an italian and it's still present here and in the Italian dub he calls them nazis because calling someone a "fascist" in Italy isn't even considered that bad (and italian fascist movements actually use Nazi symbols and are honest about what they think and want, imagine seeing people dressed as the KKK in the USA or people as the SS in Germany)
Why to you scream Benito Mussolini lol "BENTTO MUSSOLINI" so loud into my ears
Except the nazis weren't fascists, they were national socialists.
Problem is americans used the word fascists so much that it lost meaning and makes it hard to recognize where actual, literal, real fascists show up.
Yeah Zero uses this point too and since Italy has a problem with actual nazis and facists.
Happens with many words unfortunately. Social media really destroyed peoples' abilities to communicate effectively with proper vocabulary.
Would you prefer crypto fascist? Or does that resonate too much with a more recent usage of crypto? The only reason something loses meaning is because we refuse to challenge the associations we have, since language is socially constructed to a great extent
That could be true if there weren’t people doing the sieg hiell salute and waving swastikas
Leftists not Americans
As an Italian who is very familiar with Zero's work since the early 2010's, I find it very interesting to hear how his stories and style resonate abroad, where people may not be familiar to some of the specific local sociopolitical context and pop-culture references - even though it must be said he tends to focus more on the universal human experience in the stories.
Also, I really do not envy the people that have to adapt the dialogues for the dubbing, as getting the same feeling of the hilariously rude Roman vernacular is pretty much impossible to achieve in English.
That said, I understand your feelings about the series, although I think that this is one of the instances in which the main character openly being the writer himself plays in its favour: not only because he cannot be anything but an unreliable narrator, but also because Zero the author not being afraid of portraying Zero the character as a bit of an entitled jerk that comes off as such sets him apart from other "liberal protagonists" in other shows, since he (the author) is aware he does not actually know it all.
And I agree that Sarah is the best character of this season, followed by Cesare I'd say.
a proper translation of the title would be "this world won't make me evil" but i guess they wanted to keep the "tear" part so that it can easily be connected to the previous show/season
Italian and Zero's fan here. Before talking about him basing him on the shows you have absolutely to know who he is. The shows are obviously made for Italian viewers and probably he didn't expect his shows to get the interest of foreign countries. But anyway, Zerocalcare or just simply Michele, is an Italian millenial from Rome, as kid he used to contribute to small or big revolts, always trying to be "on the right side", the side of the discriminated, the weakests etcetera. When he started becoming famous it was because of his comics. He always gets political, ALWAYS, but he also fixated some rules when working. One of this is not participating to electoral debates. In is comics he constantly talks about how opressing is to be a potential political influencer. He always tries to do the right thing, he has values but also he's an human begin with flaws, fears and yes even hypocrisy. He always admited it but never tried to justify himself or glorifying his behaviour, indeed he does exactly the opposite: he portrays himself as a miserable begin that needs an imaginary friend to solve the shits he does, he always doubts his actions and such.
The context of this particular show is extremely strict to Italians, especially the neonazi's wave that is so true and yet politicians hide it. WHAT AM I SAYING POLITICIANS ARE FUCKING FASCISTS THEMSELVES HERE.
For how much I'm glad other countries are talking about these shows, I think you can't understand the show truly if you aren't living in this shitty country called Italy. It's not that you can't have your opinions on the shows, but it's kind of pointless if you firstly don't get the points
(Keeping the comment in english for everyone)
THANK YOU
With this series it's more than just "you have to watch it in italian to really get things"
You have to know at least a bit of Italy's political (and cultural) setting, both past and present, and understand Zero's background as a millennial from Rome.
Otherwise you end up missing lots of stuff and not enjoy it to its fullest
I definitely agree with the fact that This world won't tear me down (title translation that doesn't fully channels the original one's meaning) wasn't really meant for a foreign audience, like many of Zerocalcare stories imo
Dude, every country in the world has its own liberal cucks, and your so called neonazis, latin america is not much different. THose points you say are unique to italy, are not so special and unique as snowflakes usually think, even in my country we do have the same type of rebel youth who think being kind and cute while selling drawings for a living instead of producing something that physically changes the world will solve all your problems
Anyway describe Zerocalcare as "liberal" is a big semplification of politics outside US. In the rest of the world liberal means a follower of liberalism (which is so big to comprende both democratic and republican party, also because at the end econamically are similar)
I mean, in Spain Vox call themselves "liberals" being alt Right. In Colombia liberals are more similar to US on past, the liberal party is a right wing party but the majority of members are center right
@@l.h.1429 Vox is economically speaking liberal
@@lucabalistreri5755I would say libertarian even in that area.
Even in the US it’d could be argued that liberals or neo-liberals (which I find to be a better descriptor because of how different modern interpretations of liberalism are compared to it’s beginnings) are more center right compared to the leftist ideologies of Marxism or Anarchism.
In the series you can see that “it’s complicated” kinda mentality. Because the f4scists are backed up by both Cesare and Sara, for fundamentally the same reason: being left behind. The thing I think it’s genius is that, Zero doesn’t justify them, the show does.
While Zero thinks his long time best friend just decided to turn his back on him, as an audience we actually empathize sara for her decisions, while zero doesn’t, because the show told us to do so, not him. While for cesare, zero openly says that he can’t think for himself because he’s been out of the world for 20 years, so that must be the reason he took part on such a hateful group, but as an audience, we know that it’s not true, because there’s so much more than that.
I think this show how much of a real and flawed character zero is, making him a lot less Marysue-y and a lot more interesting!
(Btw, As an italian I feel like the way the antagonists are treated is pretty on point. They are literal f4scists and regardless of your political views they should be treated as the ignorant scum they are)
I have a feeling considering that The Show acknowledges The other side sometimes... and it's more self aware than a lot of other shows... That here... your probably not supposed to Like Zero... Your supposed to question things. As Zero in his more better moments points out. "You can't just slap people as black and white... it's more complicated than that." I think this show is showing what happens when you don't try to listen to the other side or even your own side.
As a conservative, I don't mind giving support and help to refugees...BUT as you said Shady, a country's government should be putting its own citizens well-being first. I'm not saying refugees and asylum-seekers should be left in the dirt, but that there should be moderation, that they should get the help they need so long as it's not at the expense of a country's citizens. And in regards to migrants from either the Middle East or Latin America, there has to be procedures in place so that they're not allowing dangerous characters like terrorists or human traffickers into our country. There's a way to balance things out without negatively affecting one side or the other.
Like a quite liberal i'm partially agree but with the terrorists is more a job of the national intelligence. At least the narcos tend to be more obvious with their ilegal wealth, using expensive clothes or things.
Talking like an colombian, here the drugs trafficators arent subtle.
Yeah, I agree, I'm from Mexico and recently we began to receive a huge number of imigrants seeking to move to the USA, I can understand the problems they face, but many of them demand things that not even the Mexican government give their own people and then they get angry when they don't get what they want.
In the caravan of migrants, many mexicans joined to give them food and water, this caused outrage because we have many people in misery who have no food, and here was a mexican group giving food to foreigners, rather than to their own people, then things got worse when those immigrants decided to throw away their food and water because they wanted pizza and coke.
It's not the imigrants' fault per se, but it's horrible when the government gives more to a group of foreigners than to its own people, just to look good at the eyes of other countries or pretend it's humanitarian.
Besides, if they take us down to their level, who's going to rescue them next time, WITH us competing for the rescue? There's a reason to put the oxygen mask on yourself first and THEN put your kid's oxygen mask on. You're no good to them dead.
I’m a political cynic so I know that both sides of the government benefit from migrants and even the criminal element from them.
That means more policing, more money, more laws, more bodies to use and abuse.
Those refugee's aid doesn't come at the expense of the Italian people, though. It was the EU that required Italy and a bunch of its other members to take in refugees and so, these shelters are founded with EU money. Now, I do think that the EU should also invest a bunch of its budget into helping its citizens out of homelessness and poverty too. And also stop throwing refugees into shitty ghettos and expect them to survive off well fare cause they can't do that in the long run and so, they often have to rely on crime. If we actually help them receive qualifications and then jobs, they won't have to rely on crime to feed themselves anymore.
"Why is Sarah voiced by a man?"
See, if you had watched the first review, you would know why.
Apparently a lot of people are missing the parts where I say that my feelings towards real-Zero are different than they are for character-Zero because real-Zero had enough self-awareness to make the show the way he did, portraying himself as not all-knowing and giving other characters, including the armadillo, a chance to properly question his takes.
But people are correct when they say I'm misusing the word "liberal." In America, that word has lost a lot of its original meaning and is mostly used as a slang pejorative, similar to "social justice warrior." As far as I can tell, "classical liberal" has take its place in conversations.
Sorry, TH-cam only recommends me your koth videos😅
XD yep. I break my pasta and put it in BEFORE the water boils. Just easier
idk whats weirder that or that i thought this was about the punisher from marvel comics
i enjoy tour take on the tear along the dotted line and i'm about to start this video, just wanted to say that you are doing awesome work on here, as to the Why is sarah voiced by a man ( there are points she isn't and i didn't notice it on my first watching ) but it was so we can differenciate Zero's story telling with what other people are saying like when Sarah's voice really comes out compared to how Zero is telling the story
I watched the first one back then. I forgot though. Something about the creator voicing everyone?
8:03 Zero isn’t supposed to be the “good guy”, he just portrays himself as he sees himself, and isn’t afraid in the first place to show all the mistakes he did, putting everything into question. Of course he starts assuming his idea is correct, but isn’t random that in both the conversations with Cesare and Sarah he is left without words. He didn’t see things from their perspective, as you said, and as he did that he starts to realize. He did lack of empathy but then on he tries to undersand their point of view and in my opinion the fact he in the first place portrays all the questionable choices and attitude he had makes it more realistic. Ofc it’s realistic, not 100% real, Zero is the first one to say he is not a reliable narrator due to his connection with the narration, but his perspective allows us to see things in his point of view while leaving space to take other sides. He doesn’t indeed leave a judgement about Cesare, even if he was in the opponent side, and leaves the conversations and events in the show opened for further judges and opinion. One of the things i like about this show is indeed that Zero can portray his point of view while not giving an universal response to everything and leaving the series on a open ending, in order to let everyone have their opinion
I have to say...being Italian and noticing the subtle but significant differences between this and the english version is so interesting. I'm not saying by any means that the English version is bad, but it definitely hits different, especially Sarah's speech. She's way more emotional in Italian, but I suppose makes sense.
Italian here, and not a channel follower. Also, I understand me and Shady have very different political views.
One thing I think the commentary gets wrong, or undervalue, is the identity of the other side. Doorags reasoning of "not having empathy" goes only so far.
In a scene not shown or talked about in this video Zero literaly says he's calling them nazis because calling someone fascists in Italy has no immediate negative connotation.
Let that sink in for a moment. Imagine someone in the US saying: "a slaver can be a good person", something equivalent of what is said in this show.
It was not an hyperbole: there are political parties and movements in Italy right now that are fascists, and some are even open about it.
So there was no doubt of who the good guys were. Unless you think slavers can have sound arguments.
Well, when the "National Socialists" proper name is used to describe everyone you disagree with it kind of loses it's bite. The empathy bit is more for understanding the other side rather than dismissing them entirely. Calling someone a "WW2 bad guy" is not the beginning of a conversation; it's the end of one.
If you want to understand more about Zero's writing: read his comics.
He is a comic writer after all, the two shows on Netflix are almost comics of his in motion.
Michele (Zerocalcare) has always been political (as it is for many comic artists here in italy) and never tried to hide it: very clearly what he writes tells his point of view of some aspects of the world, especially italian politics, never he has tried to fake it (to my knowledge).
Michele also comes from Roma, the capital city, in the middle of italy: life is different there from Milano or Messina, especially if you were born there! His comics highlight this side of his life as well.
Another thing: italian politics work differently than, say, USA politics. It's hard to explain if you never lived in italy and I would ask you to trust me on this: the approach to politics is different, what politics treat is different, because life and cultures are different.
This show intended audience is mainly italian, however I think it can be enjoyed by anyone if you understood that Zero is telling his opinion, not undeniable truth.
If anyone wants to know more about Michele's works, a quick google research will show you the many books he made (which often have way more pages than the average Marvel comic). A wikipedia search for Zerocalcare's life could also help understand his writing style and decisions.
Lastly, Zero's works are made to make the reader (or watcher) think about the topics he brings up, not present a solution to a problem (which often doesn't have only one, like lots of problems in italy tend to have)
So: about the video I have a few things to say very quickly:
1) I’m glad that you are talking about it good job
2) what you do with pasta breaks something like a dozen laws in my country
3) I get why you dislike zero for the way he is but the whole show is made to let you see that he was wrong, I think a lot of his self awareness might have been lost to translation ( the guy he was referring to instead of tuker Carlson is nothing compared to him )
4) there is a lot of context that you are probably missing especially two things: first the ww2 bad guy are still present and active here since the end of the war and people got used to them so much that he used the n*** therm to describe them to avoid it. Second it’s the video for the politician, here politicians and the media have the great idea to pander a lot on sensitive topics and find the easiest solution to a problem that most of the time doesn’t work ( like when the media tried to blame a double murder by the hands of a student who was suffering social isolation and extreme loneliness using yugioh as the instigator. Or even better when the government tried to solve the problems of school during the pandemic with desks with wheels for every school in the country, instead of reinforcing the school internet infrastructure) I think he was simply refusing to be used as a political tool.
Tucker Carlson isn't even hugely radical, that's the thing.
Only his left-wing media peers seem to think that. So the joke comes off as awkward and just kinda whiney in the Eng dub, like they're pants-wetting over the most milquetoast conservative voice ever.
But maybe you're right that the original translation might be better.
However I don't know Italian politics or pop-culture nor do I even know Italian at all, so much like Shady I can't really watch both dubs to compare.
@@Eye_Of_Odin978 I am Italian and I guarantee that there is a lot lost in translation
Agreed. He's missing too much context and the fact that we have literal neo F4scys and the people pictured ARE neo Fascys.
Shady also doesn't realize how parties affiliated to ne0 F4scys create artificial scarcity and then use the poor, the LGBT, anyone who doesn't fit in their preferred demographic, not just the immigrants, as scapegoat.
@@alessandrolamera8857 In Latin Spanish, Mr Burns From The Simpsons was mentioned
@@l.h.1429 ahhahahahahah wtf?
Definitely not my cup of tea, but I appreaciate how tastefully you handled the political side of things. In this climate especially, that’s all but impossible.
The climate can be summed up like this:
Middle: I think both sides make good points
The left winger shoves the middle
Right winger catches the middle “You okay?”
Middle says “Yeah”
Left winger asks “why are you siding with the enemy?”
California recently struck down a bill that would declare child trafficking a serious felony, and somehow the media is trying to make the republicans the villains for trying to stop child trafficking by making it a serious crime, thus meaning harsher sentences for said crime. Makes me wonder what the democrats are hiding since a bill like this should be unanimous. Sound of Freedom is another topic. Why is the media saying that stopping human trafficking, especially of children, somehow a far right stance?
The show calls everybody that has a problem with the immigration nazis and portrays them all as evil violent criminals so he handled it better than the show itself.
Also portrays all the arguments people have against the immigration as just lies.
Nah dude Zerocalcare is not the type of guy who does sequels, every kind if story he create is singular without any sequel whatsoever, he himself told that this WAS NOT a sequel to "Strappare lungo i bordi".
I don't know how the English adaptation went, but Zero has lots of doubt about himself because he knows he had luck with his life and that's the point because he can't bond with Cesare anymore, in italy sometime if we get lucky in some way we think we didn't deserve our goals and use it as a point to be somewhat morally justified to push ourself down that's why zero isn't so sure about what he wants to do since he thinks he can't blame anyone because he got lucky.
In italy we usualy get from:
"oh you poor little thing, the world is so meany to you"
To
"You lucky bastard, why all the good things happens to you, you son of a bitch, all the good stuff to people who don't do shit"
Yeah we are kinda messed up.
Also.
The group of people Zero tries to go against are not just nazis, but some fascists too.
In italy the problem of fascism and nazism is still a huge deal, we never really got rid of it, hate crime it's not free speech and try to let people go die in the streets because a government see them as a problem and not them as persons is the most of the point about fascists propaganda, but if the whole place can't even take care about theyr own citizen it's easy to get why some of them may think that people who got in theyr same situation (just faster) are seen as privileged, even tho they are not.
The most of the problem about the compriension about the show is contest (yeah the thing people uses as an almighty shield but you got my point)
Italy works different (lot worse sometimes to be honest and i am italian) we are in a country ruled by old people with old ideas and old values, trying to stay in this "poddle" if illusory optimism dragged people in terrible situation to think that the problem comes from outside ignoring the fact that the most of the problems are internal to the country itself
(great video btw)
I'm Italian, how dare you not wait for the water to boil first!
“If someone agrees w Zero then he sees them as complicated person while if they disagree with his politician they are just stupid to his point” YOU DIDNT REALLY SAID THAT ??? WTF DUDE, YOU KNOW WHAT FASCISM IS?? That is HATE, HATE SPEECH, CRIME and VIOLENCE?? Also, CESARE?? Sara?? Which disagred with him and Zero makes the whole series about em bc he have empathy and understood that reality isn’t black and white and questioning why Cesare choose to join a violent politic??
Your analysis is good, but you're almost right... It's not about providing for your loved ones first, but about doing the right thing for those who need it. My son ran over a woman 2 years ago, which caused her to lose a leg. I was the one who handed my son over to the police, that was the right thing to do.
I think the two most beautiful things in this whole ordeal are:
At the end of the day, the real villains aren't people on either side of the spectrum, but people that spread hate while donning the guise of either side (It's not exactly spoken out loud, but there is a lot of rethoric that only people that grew into the country might get).
At the end of the day, it's Secco that gives Zero the talk that actually wakes him the fuck up (Won't spoil it, but it's very nice that the character that even the show dubs as basically being "One note" develops out of it).
Secco was maybe my favorite character. Although I do wonder if making the explosives obsessed guy with a rebellious personality an Irishman (In the english dub) was a coincidence or not.
@@CollinMcLean I am absolutely sure that it *wasn't* a coincidence.
All I know is regardless of intention whenever a government seeks to "shelter" a large population of people from a different country it ends up horribly for the sheltered (poor living conditions, crowding, nowhere to go) and the country.
Yeah that tends to be the problem with governments doing that, even in the US. Again it's good to help refugees, but don't help them in a way that is that the expense of your nation's citizens. Find a balance that allows the citizens of your country to receive what they need first, while providing reasonable and sustainable aid and support for refugees and asylum-seekers.
Only because governments potentially will do it with good intentions, but no forethought or consideration of intercultural dynamics and the like. America's especially in that vein now, given our population has grown by leaps and bounds and yet we still have segregated areas in terms of race, ethnicity, etc. The interactions create problems more often because of stereotyping and ignorance that people cling to because it's more comfortable.
That is true. It's mainly because the government gives up resources to help what is considered a stranger, but most of the time they have no resources to do it correctly. That enrages the part of the population that needs help too, and sees the stranger getting help First. This show literally shows the Italian mentaility about immigrants. And i say this as an Italian.
@@christianjohnson5379 One major fact that needs to be confronted is that the ones he is claiming are refugees are most likely not. Literally all criminal aliens are NOT refugees. There is a specific set of laws that must be followed, including going to an official point of entry into a country and declaring yourself to be a refugee from a neighboring country (a neighboring country that has been labeled as unsafe and able to be at refugee status). Nearly all criminal aliens are coming for financial benefits and do not count in any refugee laws even if they declared properly. This then brings up the fact that almost none of these people are Mexican or Canadian (many Literally flew in from China, Africa and the Middle East to then illegally enter the country. )which means that they are not refugees.
as an Italian the thing that hurt me more about this video is the fact that you CALL THEM NOODLES.
The shows is showing literal nazis, it isn't a liberal vs conservative thing, it's about how nazi groups, not unlike cults, prey on vulnerable people like Cesare and use them to push their agendas, how politicians won't hesitate to prove their point, and how the press will stage and exacerbate conflicts just so they can have an entertaining story to tell.
Like not sure about anyone here, but if an old friend of mine became a freaking nazi, I wouldn't be nearly as understanding as Zero was, Zero was pretty nice to Cesare all things considering.
You don't reason with fascists, period.
2:38
Shady, I gotta hand it to ya, that’s real effective bait. I’m not even fully Italian, and my blood is boiling.
Feels great to finally have italian animation getting out of the country
I will point out a small detail, the original title more closely translates to "this world won't turn me evil"
You know, for reviewing a show you say is opposing to your own political beliefs, you did perfectly. Felt like a genuine and proper honest review, and I can't fault you for anything you said. Good work, Shady.
Thank you for showing me both of these shows.
Also, considering recent events, Sara's situation stings to me.
“Remain Civil”
Yeah, the Civil War
I respectfully disagree with you. It's true that Zero has his own biases, but he does take the time to stop and question himself "maybe my logic Is wrong or flawed". Also, you putting spaghetti BEFORE the water boils!? YOU MONSTER!!!
This was such a great show, I hope we get more.
This show was both moving and very relatable, to me. I think that Zero and the team made a great effort in delivering a narrative that is intentionally filtered from the eyes of the main character, which explains all the biases, including being able to see complexity sometimes, and completely failing to see it in other cases. That's why I loved so much Sarah's arc, going from a Mary Sue to a "human being". But again, that's intentional. it couldn't be otherwise because that's how Zero sees her.
And by the way, we should never EVER justify fascists, and that's one thing I completely agree with the show. It's not a matter of different opinions, it's historically and factually dangerous to let them thrive. No concessions to fascists. Too bad that, as the show brilliantly depicts, one side of politics is comfortable with fascism, and the other one just pretends to do something against it but they don't fucking care.
When someone decides to do a review on something they clearly didn't understand... Not even the title.
Really the scene about Sarah not being able to teach is much more depressing to me because, at least where I live, all of my previous teachers really took that job because there was nothing else to do
You break spaghetti in half!? You monster!
I have a good friend from my past who is pretty similar to the Caesare of the show. Not politically, but more of a "tough guy" who wasn't allowed to be anything else but the tough guy and ended up with a drug problem. It kinda felt like I was watching my friend and his life problems as a cartoon version, which I don't think have ever seen before.
I also found the protagonist annoying, but overall I think the two powerful scenes where he get's told off for not empathising make up for it pretty well.
Credit where credit is due, at least he is humble enough to show himself as someone who can be wrong.
What I could be annoyed by and which I was while watching is the justification of political violence of those who claim to be the "heroes".
Tho seeing it as it is stories from his life, political violence sadly has it's tradition in Europe and protesters brawling in the streets is still seen as a normal behaviour among the extremist groups.
The people never ask the migrants at all, and there’s always a stigma planted by the media that distracts us or tries to goad us into doing something stupid that they can use to gain more power.
Politicians would think twice if they were mandated to participate in the migrant housing programs, meaning their own properties would be used to house the migrants first.
I somehow knew when you asked the rhetorical question about Sarah that she'd be awesome in your eyes.
In my defense, Shady, I hadn't discovered you when that video dropped.
it's pretty common in stories where the author is the narrator to embellish the people they see in the wrong as strawmen. Simple jerks who need to be beaten down and who's opinion is always in the wrong so that the protagonist can be a squeaky clean hero who fights for "good".
What makes this show however is that the author makes the strawman and antagonist his own self insert. Zero is the one who is always talking down to others, even if his cause is coming from a good place he is depicted as narrow minded, selfish, and so obsessed with being right that he completely devalues others around him who don't take his side while being a hypocrite to his own ideals. I think it's a pretty bold move there.
I may be understanding your comment wrong but i don't think you understand who the antagonists are, they are neo-fascists, they kill and beat peoples just becouse they look or act different on the basis, this is a day to day problem in rome, those peoples wanted like 30 peoples with some children that had escaped from their country and had walked for days witouth water out on the streets, i don't think those peoples deserve to be emphatized with, hell they beated up Cesare (blond guy) just becouse he had a slightly different opinion from them (not wanting those immigrants away becouse they where black/indian/not italian).
It's like saying "oh he's a racist nazi but you still need to respect his opinion" only difference It's not an opinion it violence on other people's rigths to live
In the original italian there is no mention of Tucker Carlson. Nobody in Italy knows who Tucker Carlson is. This is a problem with dubbing things full of cultural references. You're not just missing out on the subtleties of the original language, you could also misinterpret entire scenes which in turn could lead to misinterpreting the entire series. There is no way an italian could have the reaction that you had over a name like Massimo Giletti. This is between you and the english translators, Zerocalcare had no part in it.
As an italian, I have no clue who that Tuck guy is
11:56 Silly take tbh , if this based on his life experience why wouldnt it be that way ? if he learned that lesson of course he'd be self aware when retelling the story
I think you are forgetting that the bad guys in this cartoon are litteral fascists (I know that the term is very abused, but in this case it's true, those are a group of people that, proudly, self identify as fascists).
Based
Fascists? In original they're neonazists, well yeah basically the same but nazism is much more violent
Knowing the context in Rome where the story is based, I'm 90% sure that those guys were meant to represent militants from Casa Pound and Forza Nuova, which are not just conservatives, but thugs proudly praising Mussolini and Hitler and do not refrain from acts of violence, so actual fascist, not the progressive liberals' idea of "fascists".
Saying this as a conservative who's quite critical of the left.
They are "literal fascists" in the eyes of a clearly biased narrator. We can't say if they truly are or not because the only perspective we have to the situation is one that benefits from "the bad guys" being blatantly evil.
How did you miss that fact?! Shady bluntly stated that was how the show operates several times throughout the reveiw.
@christianknight1649 I suppose you are not familiar with Italian politics (unfortunately a lot is lost in translation), those guys are supposed to be members of Casa Pound or Forza Nuova. Italian political movements that operate like in the show. They proudly call themselves fascists, and aim bring back fascism to Italy.
As an Italian viewer, I'm in love with this blessed cultural/artistic connection.
Zero is a great Italian voice, perhaps the best voice for Italian millennials (as much as I hate putting generations and people in boxes).
Thank you @ShadyDoorags !!!
Also, 2.35 hit mercilessly hard =)
BTW, it's totally fair that you don't like Zero at times (I think): even Zero don't like Zero, often! ahaha
It's like a comedic/poignant view of how clueless Zero/we all are in spite of our best intentions and that the situation here (and in much of the western world) is so dicey and fuuuuu*d.
Here in Italy, it's almost common place to wax poetic about how the past generation was so well off in the way of housing, work, uni and such and such.
But as a millennial myself, at times I too feel like a comedic/tragic hero that can't but celebrate his cluelessness and lack of results on the world at large, in spite of my best efforts: that feels like most of what we were given.
I will add that in an atomized world, it's easy for people's confusion (even with their most partisan views, either side of the fence) to become an instrument in the hands of those who _really_ don't want anything to change.
Another common adage, here in Italy, is that people root for political parties the way they root for football teams ahahah
With that said, I don't have a background in anything and don't know most things, but it's just really nice to be part of the convo in this very cool space you created!
14:48 Shady, I wonder what you had to give up in the past. Because you saying that it hurts hits it head on. Can totally relate. Nothing like feeling like a person who just takes up space, having to live like a nihilist, or worse, feeling like a parasite to your loved ones because they see you suffering from what they and others have told you to do and they don't support you through it. They just tell you to love that swing shift and shut up or get out.
To be honest, I liked Zero, it's normal that there are people who will completely disagree with a matter as delicate as this, but something that I like about him is that he constantly doubts his own point of view, thanks to Cesare, and at the end he is the only one, or at least that we know, that talks to the immigrants.
Yes, he is not going to emphasize with everyone who thinks contrary to him, but I do not think it is necessary either, those people are not going to try to empathize with him either, or listen to him.
The protagonist is obviously not perfect, but at least what I like about his character is that he tries to improve and do what he thinks is best, talk to the people around him to get another point of view.
I always appreciate more nuance in these political discussions, because most often it all ammounts to "You're being ignorant, short-sighted, overly simplistic and dumb based on what someone else told you... I'm now going to tell you an oversimplified and dumb version of events and ask you to blindly believe it."
I mean, when you're talking to fascists, what else do you need to say to them?
@@vasco2387People are fascists for a reason, it's not like they've never considered or heard any other political ideology. If you just act like their short sighted and dumb they're not going to listen to you. You have to assume that they have the best possible reasons for being fascist and show how those reasons aren't accurate, or show how other ideologies more effectively help them in the ways they need.
@@711Milkman most of the times, when people are blindly fascist, it's because they are just ignorant. I experienced it myself, it's not like they studied multiple ideologies and chose the most fitting for them, they are just ignorant about tge others, and, most of the times, they are ignorant about their ideology too
9:50 what he said is true 100% cause in the uk we have the goverment giving homes to so called migrants while brits or vetrens are on the street homeless
the goverment should help its citizens first and foremost
and he isnt wrong about the migrants hurting people cause it has happened
Same in the US. Massive homelessness problem and a constant need for more work. But there are housing programs specifically for illegal immigrants, and the main argument against preventing illegal immigration is "they're doing jobs Americans don't want to do."
@@MrDj232 yea cause they get paid under the table, which means its cheaper for companies, and for the workers get screwed, also the programs are paid by tax payers, which both the companies and illegals arent paying into it, which means the illegals are subsidized by govt tax payers and companies profit, cause you wont work for less wages, but if you got housing/food/bills subsized then less wages dont bother you cause you have less bills...being rich is measured in 2 ways, 1, you have money and can afford anything and everything, and the other is you have no expenses, if you have no reason to pay for bills to live, but you have a home, food, clothing, wifi, then you can be broke but all your needs are met. you wont have a yacht but you wont be starving...
@@MrDj232Well, maybe we all can stop building more Walmarts, Tescos, and ASDA crap and build more shelters for both groups. It's always corporate corruption.
It's weird because the UK DOES have the dole and public housing for poor citizens, so it just seems like the natural extension. Buuut yeah when they don't behave, they need to be policed way harder. Instead of the opposite. One thing that's tough is that, objectively, it's cheaper to just pay people to not be so poor. Just like it's cheaper to pay our enemies not to fight wars with us.. but that's also a _perpetual_ payment and completely giving up on solving the problem.
buuut.. isn't this show Italian? ... last time I checked, Italy is surviving 100% on charity from Germany. Used to be Germany and UK, but UK pulled out. Not my kid, I'm not providing support.
@@117Ender its an invasion
I'm familiar with zero calcare's comics and Rome, i just think you all absolutely cannot read the Rome's local political environment through american political cateogories. It's just another world. Italian neo-fascism is usually not just far right wing.
Specificly Zero comes form Rome's suburbs where there are strong and rooted fasist, anarchist and comunist movements. However, the point is they all esist as groups of social politics, not as aspiring government politicians or public intelectuals. Aslo fascists there tend to be extremely violent, and often things end up being violent from both parts.
This is not a season 2, it's a whole new story, that's why it isn't a season 2.
I actually enjoyed both shows. A lot of the time I watch netflix shows while doing something else and just listen to them but for Tear Along The Dotted Line and This World Can't Tear Me Down I actually sat down and watched both shows (Seasons?) cause it collected my attention and made me feel kinda like Zero even the things I was annoyed at felt like some crap I'd do and regret later on after i've discovered i'm in the wrong.
Btw Zero calls them fascists because that's what they call themselves. It's about an extemist group that actually exist in Italy that thinks "it was better when Mussolini was alive, he cared about italians first". Nedless to say none of these people were alive back than and the fact that someone thinks this is true is insulting to the italians who fought against fascism.
This is also why Zero seems so onesided, because it's the italian equivalent of people supporting kkk in the US.
No matter the argument, it's very likely they're doing so to justify the urge of being violent and blame something else..... As if doing so will help them forgetting how bad our politics are.
Thanks Sara for pointing it out.
Ok massive props to you shady for being just absolutely maniacal like that and triggering your Italian fans 😂 (obviously I have nothing against Italians I love all people and cultures i just know how specific Italians are about cooking and while I don’t know all the dos and don’ts I do know that you don’t break the noodles in half and you don’t put them in before the water starts boiling so i just got a good laugh because of that so thanks for making me day a whole lot better shady you always do❤)
@@Fralorgrafon Be quiet, you.
@@addison_v_ertisement1678 He's out of line, but he's right.
@@addison_v_ertisement1678 Nah, he's got a good point.
Any culture out there that encourages cannibalism probably should be shunned at least a *little* bit.
(And yes, they exist. Even in 2023)
Eh don't worry dude, italian people has things against themselfs too, for fuck sake we don't even vote anymore
The fact about spaghetti noodles is that you're supposed to pick them by rolling your fork in it. When you break them they become short and you won't be able to eat them like that, they also slip continuously from the fork and- seriously, how the hell you eat broken spaghetti? It's a genuine question, because it's torture to eat them like that, it's a war between the fork and the noodles
For those few interested in the current situation in Italy in order to better understand the political context:
As an Italian, I can say that I completely agree that tearing down those posters was not the right thing to do. The right to freedom of speech must always be guaranteed. However, I believe that unfortunately, the English dubbing doesn't capture the essence of this season. The word "fascists" was lost in translation. It's not about conservative people, it's about extremists. Unfortunately, I think that without knowledge of Italian history in the 20th century and the current political dynamics in Italy, it's difficult to understand. We were under a dictatorship for 20 years, and some of us don't want to go back to that, regardless of political orientation.
"Apologia of fascism" is the act of promoting or justifying a political ideology based on national supremacy, authoritarianism, and discrimination and is a crime in Italy, precisely to protect ourselves from returning to a fascist dictatorship or similar situation and the people in the protest march with their right arm raised were doing exactly that.
That being said, our country currently has a conservative government, but the type of government doesn't really matter. I was born in 2000, And already at that time there haven't been politicians who truly care about the people for so looong. I can also say that the issue of migrants in Italy is complex because we are a peninsula in a strategic location in the Mediterranean sea, and we are targeted by human trafficking from the African continent. Many migrants arrive here and sometimes thousands die during these journeys. Often, their goal is to reach other destinations in Europe, but unfortunately, other European countries prevent them from entering, leaving us with the so called "problem." This situation is also exploited by the mafia and politics. In the recent years, some politicians have promoted ideologies close to fascism, which have led to strong racism from the far-right. Unfortunately fascist propaganda never dies.
Since I was born, I don't remember a decent government that truly cared about the well-being of the country and its people. I repeat, the type of political orientation doesn't matter anymore. There is no longer any political orientation in Italy, only corruption, cocaine, mafia, and the fight against our rights as individuals. Even those fortunate enough to have a job with a decent salary earn $1100 per month, which becomes $900 after taxes, and they can't support an entire family on that. So they have to find additional jobs that no longer exist. We are sinking lower, and despite all this, our politicians go around Europe talking about the beautiful country that no longer exists and how great we were. Oh, but the food is good, that's for sure. Come and see the Colosseum, the marble is the only thing that's left. Oh no, they've even stolen that.
I think this series was more intended for Italian use than the first one. Politics in Italy don't work as they do in the US or the UK, so without knowledge on the matter, things might be easily misunderstood. For example: due to historical reasons, Fascism is by Constitution illegal in Italy.
Man, I don´t share a lot of your POV, but at the sime time, I´m glad, because you gave me a new perspective, and that´s simply awesome
Bro we are talking about fascist. People who beat up Black people in the streets. It’s a serious matter in Italy and you can’t compare them to the conservatives in the USA.
And we are talking about ACTUAL fascist not political figures.
I didn't compare them to American conservatives.
Italian politics (or European politics in general) is very different from the American one, the fascism described in "this world won't make me bad" is real and dangerous. There may be Zero's bias but it has fully... and in any case I wouldn't call it "liberal" at all. They are seen by us as the right but a bit progressive
@@ShadyDoorags Then WHO are you comparing them to exactly? What is your frame of reference here?
I agree with your analysis. It is quite of a "new thing" (at least for the small amount of tv shows I watch) to have a show that tied to the protagonist (with a non-pure-hero protagonist), and people will feel pissed off often when his opinion is not their own also, but ZC really is good at showing how we do act in the same (wrong) ways (being entitled AF, maybe from the opposite political side).
As a leftist, we often lean towards pure abstraction and pure ethics when discussing any topic, and in my opinion he shows very well how this is not the way we should see things. I do like the stress of how reality is not black and white, which is a problem affecting EVERY country's politics nowadays.
Keep going marking great videos
I guess Zero's behavior may sound odd for USA viewers, but for us in Southern Europe it was assumed. The entire cartoon (and comic) are drown in a style that here is immediately recognizable from communist and anarchist fanzines, or at least far left wing satirical magazines (the author had indeed worked in Italian publications along those lines). There is an archetype of "youth" associated with those publications, that includes left wing politics but also adherence to the methods, postures and attitudes you mention in Zero. It is a package. Most of us growing in the south in the 2000s knew people like this and recognize the archetype, like Americans would recognize an emo girl. We already assumed that Zero (and the author) were like that to an extent just from how he is coded. For me the 2 season feels like Zero as an adult engaging with old views he never fully re examined or dissociated himself from. To which extend the author is aware of the shortcomings of his former linings and is portraying them, and to which extend he isn't, doesn't seem to matter that much to me, since the portrayal is clear and honest.
Okay, well. Zero remembering his 'side' as the good guys and the 'other side' as the bad guys is sort of expected. He's telling it how he remembers it. People's memories get distorted over time. It's kind of the point of both this series and the previous one.
exactly.
I mean,if the other side are literally nazis i'll guess your side is the right one
I belive that not being Italian makes you lose important pieces to fully understand the show, in my opinion the two groups were perfectly represented, what you don't understand is that those "bad guys" are not conservatives, they are extremists, neo fascists activists, Italy is the country where the concept of extreme right, fascism and consequently most of the ideals of Nazism were born, Italy has become very polarized in the last 20 years expecially on the migrants emergency, and the concept of conservatives and progressives that they have for example in the states is very limiting, the story you saw in the show is a very faithful cross-section of today's Italy, and so are the two groups, it should also be kept in mind that the show shows a scenareo of activism, protests and fights, in which usually the moderates don't take parts, honestly the only fictitious character in the show for me is cesare
@@pippopino6948
People always go on about how extreme American politics are, so it's almost refreshing to be reminded that we are fucking milktoast compared to the rest of the world.
I have barely any connection to my Italian heritage, and your description of how you make spaghetti hurt me on several levels
OI you never talk smack about my momma’s pasta!
My Italian friend just audibly gasped at the spaghetti 😂
The Tucker Carson line has to be some localizer BS
In the Italian version he talks about another character that is pretty similar to Carlson. Good localization
@@Ermespsi C'è una differenza non da poco tra Giletti e Carlson (che è più comparabile a un Feltri o un Sallusti tipo)
Can we talk about how the people Calcare strongly disegrees with are literally Neo-Nazis?
How are you supposed to reasonably speak with people who are literally asking for a goup of people who have been through Hell and back to be cast away after years of not finding a place where they can stay, not to mention that they literally have no fault at all in what happened to them.
The point is that many of them (sadly not all) are indeed NOT fascist, but they are slandered as them to avoid the need of a proper confrontation with people having different ideas...
@@Beregorn88no, they really are fascists, there are still fascists organizations in Italy
@@Beregorn88Not all of them, there's a lot of people who probably have a similar situation to Sarah who don't hate the immigrants but feel like throwing them out is the solution to their problems. When it comes to minorities, usually the ones who display the largest amount of antagonism towards them are the working class because they are fed with the idea that those immigrants are there to take their jobs and bring crime, things that as a poor or lower middle-class individuals is the last that you need, and that is used by those hate groups to recruit them into their numbers.
@@ThyFloorestFloor for fuck's sake those are fascists. Groups from casa pound, forza nuova with litteral svastikas and fasci littorali over themselves, it's not Mark from the gas station that votes right and doesn't like darkies, it's people who would love to bring back the gas chambers. I swear on god american cannot distinguish one from the other because they didn't go throu it.
@@Beregorn88 No, they are 100% fascists. They're literally, explicit fascist organizations, which seem to be what these kind of """"analysis"""" like in the video (always assumed analysis required research when there's stuff in it you're not familiar with, silly me) are totally missing
I love the two shows, they just are really awesom. Saludós desde Argentina 🇦🇷
You missed one part about Cesare: he might have turned to drugs to suppress that he might be gay. That talk with Zero at the steps really revealed a lot about him. He might as well be the tragic main character of the story instead of Zero this time around.
Personally, I liked that Zero was way more unlikable. As someone who agrees with almost all of his views, I am way more realistic like Sarah is and understand that life is way more complicated and sticking to your principals at the sacrifice of your own comfort is not something anyone can do, especially if they've been struggling for a while.
Though, I do agree, I wished they didn't make the bad guys so obviously bad guys, while I liked Cesare as an example of what realistically some people who turned into Nazis are like, I wish they didn't just make the rest of the people who disagree with Zero just brain dead Nazis. I wish they showed more complexity with the opposition to Zero and his group.
One thing I really felt relatable to Zero though, was when he tried to talk down to Sarah and Cesare because like Zero, I was able to have success and comfort early in my life based on a lot of good luck. I feel like shit talking to my friends who are struggling paycheck to paycheck or suffering mental health problems. Like what right do I have to talk to them about success when the only thing keeping me from being like them was just knowing the right person at the right time? I was once like them, but I admit my success makes me feel a bit detached from what people struggling are going through.
I liked that Zero makes himself a target of a lot naïve "leftist"/"liberal" thinking that you should just "do the right thing" without considering all the consequences. Illegal immigration and migrant refugee problems aren't just brought up because people are Nazis or racists. As a lefty who lives in Texas, I understand both sides of the issue and how heated the debate can get. I've met and engaged with people on both sides of this issue and understand their opinions. I wish more people understood and that's what I liked about "This World can't tear me down", is it biased? Hell yes, but I see this as having a little more nuanced discussion than most shows have on this topic than just "anti-immigrant = bad guy". It isn't as perfect as the first series, but I liked the interactions and discussion brought up in this season.
i also think it's not as perfect and tear along but at the same time , i feel it hits better if we take it seriously that it's mostly as he remembers and that as he says , he is biased because perspective isn't unbiased , we can't really make him remember differently after all , probably there could've been better touches if it wasn't the case story telling wise as you said but I feel like the value as a recollection of events keeps it more... authentic , honest per say.
the big problem with this in contrast with "tear along the doted line" it's still interpersonal but take a lot in to politics, and not understanding makes difficult understanding it.
This is something that I see a lot with the two side mindset. It can be easy to get it caught up in the "my side is right and your side is wrong" idea but not be able to realize that your actions aren't reflecting your ideals. If I say that I am a democrat, then I am expected to vote and act in a way that might not actually be how I want and same with Republican. It's a conversation worth having, but if real life isn't that black and white then there should be more than two sides.
That is true but one think that I can see from all the comment outside of Italy is that you guys have a very bland definition of fascists. The people Zero is referring to are a call to the associates of 2 specific political parties "casa pound" and "foza nuova" the first one even had an illegally occupied government building as it's main party office that had to be forcefully vacated 3 years back. These are not branded fascists by the opposition. These are pople that call themselves fascist, that think that Mussolini was in the right, ultra conservative and dogmatic catholics that believe that the italian race is superior to all the others. These are not the people that wants to use the n word in public, these are the people that go in the streets chanting "kill all n*****s" with face covered and metal pipes in hand. So when zero is talking about not listening to them is not saying "I'm right and they are wrong" is trying to avoid the spread of hateful and dangerous ideologies that are by definition illegal and incostitutional in our country. It's a nouance and it does not take away from your comment but I just wanted to point it out because this series has a wholw different meaning if you really know the context of it
Only problem that here specificaly there are 2 sides, and in this case those peoples that wanted the refugees out where literal nazi@s, those peoples kill on the regular just becouse you act or look different from them, in italy is a day to day problem
"So the animated series I liked I don't anymore because it turned out to be politically leftist", do you only like characters that agree with your worldview? At the beginning you say how the show just puts everyone who doesn't agree with Zero as blanket "bad guys" but obviously that's not the case because Cesare and Sarah both have their arguments laid out showing us that the matter is more complicated than it seems. The only ones who didn't get their point across were the nazis and I don't think you think it's vital to the show for them to go through their talking points. That said, the setting of the story it's about a different kind of politics and being from a different world, we shouldn't pass judgement on the actions of the characters. e.g. you said Zero shouldn't have ripped apart those posters because "freedom of speech" but when done against people that use political violence I would think it is justified.
Being proud of not doing research seems...like a weird flex, especially if the intent is to try and not have a divisive political discussion: by which you mean partisan, but conflate that word with political, which isn't the same thing except in particular execution.
Which become apparent when he treats actual fascist organizations known for their aggressivenes and violence (literally hundreds of assaults against minorities and other political groups in the last years) as a legit organization that has a "right to free speech" and Zero as being intolerant toward them for ripping off their posters. I wonder what he would think about the KKK propagandizing in his block, would he defend their free speech too?
The show does indeed show and address Zero's flaws and hypocrisies, that's not one of them tho
2:35 I'm not even Italian, and that triggered me lol
zerocalcare was ALWAYS "political"
Between Sarah, Seth from _Street Fighter 5,_ Butt Witch, and Dr. Girlfriend, I think I might have a type.
Deep husky sounding women?
Should give ol' Tonkatsu Sinclair a watch
@@IGeorge94 Nah, they ain't husky, that's a _man's_ voice.
@@TheCoolerDrilis So what do you think that means for you?
@@IGeorge94 Girls with deep voices are hot.
lol, that strawman was a celery
Thank you Shady!! I watched “Tear along….” B/C of your review and am in the middle of watching the other..(“This world…”). I appreciate what you do! Cheers and Blessings Bro. Shady D.!
Makes it any better, clicked on it the moment I saw it. Loved your previous review, and honestly Im glad to see another video covering it.
I found your channel because of your flash video. I'm so glad I did. You are very good to listen too
YEAH. I DID WATCH IT! DON'T LUMP ME IN WITH THOSE PEOPLE.
I wanted to watch the video because I am a huge Zerocalcare's fan and I like to look at what people outside of Italy think and I enjoyed the previous video. That said, I had to stop at the second premise because I understood that the vast majoriy of Americans can't even comprehend basic political theory, let alone the nuances of italian local politics and the refugee chrisis. The sad part is that's not even your fault, but the criminal work of a political class that is completely in the pocket of the same capitalists that benefitted from you not being able to understand the extend towards wich they oppress every single one of the rest of you, or the atrocities upon wich your empire stands.
Completely in good faith I wanted to clarify a few things:
1) No: you're not a capitalist if you work on TH-cam and sell merch, because you don't own the servers and factory used to host, manufacture or distribute said products. You're a proletarian like us mortals selling your labour for less value than what said companies make from it.
2) Liberalism is the ideology that values the right to private property as a fundamental human right, as opposed to socialism. Socialism is an umbrella term for all the ideologies that think that the means of production should be communally owned, be it by a State like in marxism-leninism, or by various forms of orizzontal spontaneous organizations, like in anarchism.
All the founding fathers were liberals taking inspiration from contemporary French repubblican (as opposed to monarchists) philosophers
3) Italy has a glorious past of left wing antagonistic opposition:
- from 1921 to 1925, the "People's Daring Ones" fought against the rising of fascism with their lives and from '43 to '45 various cities in Northern Italy resisted and succesfully liberated themselves from the Fascist State.
- During the '60s the workers' and students' movements grew a lot really fast, culminating in the "Years of Lead" that ended at the beginning of the '80s. During those years the CIA and Italian secret services funded and directly partecipated in terrorist bombings executed by various neofascist organizations. That was ment to provoke a reaction from the left in order to split it between revolutionaries and reformists
- In these days (07/19-07/21) of 2001 the G8 summit held in my home town of Genoa saw massive protests from the No Globals (to wich Zero partecipated). The State answered with blind violence: on the 20th a protestor was shot dead by a policeman (here it's something strange), thousands, including the retiree's march, were savagely beaten in the street. At night they broke in a school where the authorized organizers of the protests set up the media centre and dormitory and left what reporters described as a "Mexican butchery"
So yeah, the problem isn't the language barrier, it's really a cultural one 'cause you don't even bother to educate yourself in what happens outside of your borders
Omg I was hoping for this video!!
Edit: damn it, you cross us Italian and our sacred food rules
I loved the first video so Im happy you did a nother one