not in natural scenarios. Hazard assessment is focused on avoiding the overtopping of the lake, or reinforcing the sill, or excavating the sill before overtopping. Check the Attabad landslide in Pakistan, f.e.
Generally, when simulating the mechanical response with downscaled models, you must also downscale the mechanical strength of the materials, in order to have a realistic response. See f.e.: th-cam.com/video/KvYLuOdf4AY/w-d-xo.html
they downscale the volume of the water and thus the mass, flow, and force the only thing not down-scaled is density which is hard to do without also effecting it's viscosity or it's opacity which was important for the subsurface visuals in this experiment
Interesting to see how an earthen structure can fail due to such "minor" fault. This actually reminded me of The Dollop podcast episode called Catastrophe Jim. Not sure if I can put links in here but I recommend checking it out. thedollop.libsyn.com/216-catastrophe-jim
I get that you might need to downscale the material but this seems to be extremely downscaled. Why not make a weaker concrete? concrete is bound together, sand is not. We have seen dams with breaches before and it's not nearly this catastrophic. Just look at this in a different perspective. Concrete breaks off in Chuck's, sand does not and it flows rather freely with the water.
For everyone that is writing comments about that actuak dams are not made of sand. This is not an experiment to test anything realted with dams, it is about the erosion of sand in contact with water and how it escalates when the water has movement power.
So basically, the overflow gradually erode the crest of the dam, allowing deeper water to go through the trench with higher pressure, causing a gradually more severe erosion, until there is enough irregularities and water passing throught that the turbulences also gradually increases, causing more severe erosion on the sides of the trench, en therefore, allowing to not just let the trench to get deeper but also wider? Am I in the kind of right?
Something similiar was done in italy after the "Val Pola landslide", which created a lake with unstable flanks that was then removed by making it slowly "spill over", although it was started by increasing the level of the water.
Nice experiment. Well done, not suprized of the acceleration. I thought it would have dug deeper? That's why we do experiments! Thanks mates, Good job.
And this kids is why there is a growing trend of removing older dams that are serious need of repair or have sediment practically up to the water line.
First thing you see is somebody scooping the sand away creating the breach. Title says "topping" the dam. I take that to mean they let the water fill to overflow it naturally not starting it artificially.
OK, I do construction materials testing and inspections. first off you don't call it "dirt" it is known as soils, also levies and dams are not made of any kind of soils the core of the dam is mainly a fat clay which is non permeable the rest of dam is made up of either elastic silt, lean clays or sandy clays.
Why ? Because if you don't, this is what happens and how quickly. The first dam likely wasn't made from the materials you quoted. They were developed through studies like this. This simply illustrates the reasons why your developed technology is necessary.
That is what i thought . But probably they measured the density of what real dam is made of and the one with slit . And according to the water pressure they decided to go with slit.
"Why do natural and man-made dams quickly collapse when the water level exceeds the height of the barrier" From description, now what im wondering is why did they score the top of the dam? How does introducing a mechanical break have anything to do with the water level on the top side of the dam rising to the point of overflow?
The split screen thing didn't do it for me, nor the views that were clearly shot in portrait, then rotated to landscape...I would have preferred a full screen landscape view from the front, as shown up to 0:18
this was almost summerville dam wv in 2016 because we store water for rafters to release water to go faster. it cost people there homes cause they stored to much water and had to release it. 8 ' from breaching. it almost cost us thousand's of homes and business
Hace 70 años ya se utilizo esa tecnica para contruir el pantano de Thous en Valencia ( España ) cuando el pantano revento en 1982 por las intensas lluvias, las inundaciones, no provocaron ninguna victima.
These people are thinking too small. There is a relation between water velocity and its erosive power because higher water velocity means that it can carry more sediment and rocks. When the velocity drops, the water can dump out this sediment almost instantaneously. Water depth affects whether the flow will be laminar or turbulent. If you have deep enough water it will be a laminar flow even when passing over hills and obstacles, leaving only a turbulent trail of sediment in it's wake. When flood waters hit a unpassable barrier it will generate waves which reflect back, if the barrier is not perpendicular, interference patterns will be generated. Water depth does affect the height and separation of sediment dunes left by the flood, so there is a relation you can use to determine the depth of water by the height and spacing of sediment ripples it leaves behind. By the way, if you zoom in on desert dunes or any other dunes on Earth, you will almost always find rocks and gravel. This is particularly true about dunes in Scandinavia which contain mostly rocks and boulders. If you want to try to calculate the depth of water in a very interesting flood, by the height and spacing of wave ripples, you should try the Libyan desert. There are many examples of interference patterns there. Ripple spacing is often around 2 kilometers. Interesting fact: The upper sedimentary layer all over the Earth is comprised of dunes, wave ripples and basin deposits, with massive amounts of tumbled (round) rocks and gravel. These all seem to be deposited in the same event. Canada and the US is of particular interest as we now have Lidar images of the area. You can literally trace the flood waters as they pass between the mountains. Norway, Sweden and Finland also have Lidar imagery which is down to 1 meter and 2 meter resolution showing the exact path of flood waters and mixing of currents. Interesting question: "What is the velocity of a flood/tsunami that is 1 kilometer high?"
Very interesting but what’s the purpose of this experiment if damns are made from solid concrete and rebar several feet thick? Even the foundation of a damn extends well below the surface it sits on.
While an outstanding model here in this video, it's primary representation is of exponentially compounding soil erosion via an overflow breach. The factor it lacks is a vegetative layer on the dry side of the damn. I would much enjoy seeing this time lapse experiment recreated with an established wide blade grass type on the outflow side of the damn as well as the top of the damn above water to analyze the erosive resistance provided by both the subterranean root system as well as the shingle like layer created by the grass blades as the water as the water forces them unidirectionally.
As well, I find it would be much more naturally accurate to commence the breach by overflowing the water body as opposed to scratching an initial breach channel with a tool.
Don't build dams out of beachsand, got it. Would a tiny layer of actual concrete in the core of the dam stop the erosion, while the sand merely acts to stabilize it?
I think the guy with the pneumatic tool was somewhat instigating this. notice the pneumatic noises throughout the video. However, is a good representation of a dam breach.
What I don't get is that on the bottom right camera you can see see a jet stream underwater hitting the dam. Is that what actually compromised it or does that simulate the natural flow of the water?
I do not see a jet stream under water. What I see clearly in the bottom left view is debris is being pulled/pushed to the ever widening gap of the dam due to the increased flow of the water. Is that what you mean?
Does this actually happen for large scale concrete damns? For example if i made a 5 foot opening hole like this on something like the hoover damn, would it eventually just fail?
not easy that overtopping causes this at concrete dam, depends on how well protected the secondary spillway is designed, how long erosion can damage the boundaries... But search "teton dam failure" and also look at this: th-cam.com/video/_VRGTkCv3sU/w-d-xo.html
I have read that in the case of Hoover Dam, the canyon walls will give way before the dam itself will. But most dams are no as solidly built as Hoover.
So this is supposed to simulate a giant with a rake or something breaching a miniature dam? Doesn't water flow act completely different when it has more mass behind it? This would be the equivalent to driving a RC and comparing it to a full size one.
just like the sand box, I used to spend hours in. It would be pretty hard to stop this in the natural world but the way of stopping it in the sand box, was: large mass object, in which then the water starts to build against and then spills over again, unless the hose is removed. A large hand of sand put into the spill. Forced demolition of the side ways before it expands to it collapses into the trench. other things that could be used, a large amount of substances that expand and react with and too the water changing its properties and state that can be removed, such as a chaining it to gelatine or viscus substance, which then adds even more work attempting to filter out the added substance. Alterantivly, other solutions from the sand box, have been, destroying the rear side of the damn so the flow comes out the back side and around to the front, saving further erosion from the primary structure thus also creating much relief. Alternatively again, is building a damn system like the panama canal, but on a massive scale. So much like Oroville damn or something. one could create artificial massive pits, in which the water flows into, this would temporary change the seasons and the water production of the area until nature rebalances it, you create this massive reservoir system all the way to eh ocean, down multude of reservoirs. This way if there isa damn pill or collapse, it all flows to the ocean, which would be unlikely, because the the damn system would be a fall system in which is a controlled decent to the ocean like a stair system. The system of flow could be moderate heavily on a massive scale, and the only real danger is solvent of water properties and deterrent and decay of the geologial features... So how to stop it or better yet, how to control how the water returns. Then what is the purpose of the water? TO return? TO feed the thirst.
The person who set up this video recording doesn't appear to realize that the viewers are NOT seeing what's actually going on in the background therefore would be better to show the sorroundings so people can get an idea or a better understanding of what's happening
To everyone that states "we don't build real dams out of sand" I will say that many real dams are made of sand. People build with what is available at the site. If sand or silt is all that is available, guess what the dam is made of? Answer, sand or silt. It is simply cost prohibitive to haul in all the material from offsite. In the early days of ash basins, the dams were literally made of ash tailings which many consider even worse than sand for dam building.
THE FULL VIDEO IS AVAILABLE HERE:
th-cam.com/video/J08__r3H1LI/w-d-xo.html
curiosity here, how would we stop something like this? or better yet, CAN it be stopped once it's started?
not in natural scenarios. Hazard assessment is focused on avoiding the overtopping of the lake, or reinforcing the sill, or excavating the sill before overtopping. Check the Attabad landslide in Pakistan, f.e.
Mister, I like your job. :-)
Erosion from sand
ADEBISI ADEBISI holy crap... wtf is that reaction about??
"Break the Dam! Release the River!"
-Treebeard
this is pretty dam interesting!
Good one
Ah ha!!
Stop
EPIC JOKE
You with your joke man... stop it
How they set up the experiment is almost more interesting as the experiment itself. Awesome job!
The power of Hydrodynamics must never be underestimated.
If you only knew what was right in front of our eyes. Yardangs and desert dunes are not created by wind. I have absolute proof of that.
0.1% damage leads to 100% damage
WOW! I was surprised at how quickly this occurred! Great video!
Selamat 768
I'm watching this like:
"Dam…"
I just love seeing sand bridges start to erode the hell out when its breached, its super interesting
This made me need to pee but I was so engrossed that I pissed myself
Generally, when simulating the mechanical response with downscaled models, you must also downscale the mechanical strength of the materials, in order to have a realistic response. See f.e.: th-cam.com/video/KvYLuOdf4AY/w-d-xo.html
yeah , you down scale the concrete , ok . but why not downscale the water too?
this experiment is 50% correct.
they downscale the volume of the water and thus the mass, flow, and force
the only thing not down-scaled is density which is hard to do without also effecting it's viscosity or it's opacity which was important for the subsurface visuals in this experiment
Daniel Garcia-Castellanos
L
Interesting to see how an earthen structure can fail due to such "minor" fault. This actually reminded me of The Dollop podcast episode called Catastrophe Jim. Not sure if I can put links in here but I recommend checking it out. thedollop.libsyn.com/216-catastrophe-jim
I get that you might need to downscale the material but this seems to be extremely downscaled. Why not make a weaker concrete? concrete is bound together, sand is not. We have seen dams with breaches before and it's not nearly this catastrophic. Just look at this in a different perspective. Concrete breaks off in Chuck's, sand does not and it flows rather freely with the water.
For everyone that is writing comments about that actuak dams are not made of sand.
This is not an experiment to test anything realted with dams, it is about the erosion of sand in contact with water and how it escalates when the water has movement power.
This is very good dam
Thumbs down for skipping the coolest parts
Full video here:
th-cam.com/video/J08__r3H1LI/w-d-xo.html
A Kid From Battlefield what?
Rainbow Dash What?!?! Where your previous comment went? Lol
A Kid From Battlefield what other comment? You entered my shed!
Because he's a coward on the internet.
that's quite mind boggling how something so minor could turn to that
So basically, the overflow gradually erode the crest of the dam, allowing deeper water to go through the trench with higher pressure, causing a gradually more severe erosion, until there is enough irregularities and water passing throught that the turbulences also gradually increases, causing more severe erosion on the sides of the trench, en therefore, allowing to not just let the trench to get deeper but also wider?
Am I in the kind of right?
Terrae yes
Nope, not even close! The dam is made of sand! Nuff said!
Michael Moran and...?
No your wrong, the air was pushing it!
Michael Moran He is right in every word he said.
Who would build a dam out of just sand?
Something similiar was done in italy after the "Val Pola landslide", which created a lake with unstable flanks that was then removed by making it slowly "spill over", although it was started by increasing the level of the water.
Nice experiment. Well done, not suprized of the acceleration. I thought it would have dug deeper? That's why we do experiments! Thanks mates, Good job.
Really interesting, thanks for posting this
What I like to play as a kid when there is flood after rain storm. Enjoy watching the pro doing it! Thanks!
Is this similar to the failure at the South Fork dam which led to the Johnstown Flood on 31.May.1889?
I think the confetti they are throwing into the water is so they can visually see the motion of the water traveling?
Conclusion? - add cement to your sand when building "real" dams! :)
The ending looks like what was left of our dam after it broke.
Quadrenaro do i sense a conspiracy........o.O
I would have never guessed that the compacted sand was better than the sand + gravel and sand + rocks.
The split screen killed it.
great job, fascinating the chainsaw like formation deep the wide yet top lines seem stable for relatively long time
And this kids is why there is a growing trend of removing older dams that are serious need of repair or have sediment practically up to the water line.
First thing you see is somebody scooping the sand away creating the breach.
Title says "topping" the dam.
I take that to mean they let the water fill to overflow it naturally not starting it artificially.
This is incredible! Cool video guys!!
you skipped the best parts
Full video here:
th-cam.com/video/J08__r3H1LI/w-d-xo.html
Mike Waisnor it rhymes
OK, I do construction materials testing and inspections. first off you don't call it "dirt" it is known as soils, also levies and dams are not made of any kind of soils the core of the dam is mainly a fat clay which is non permeable the rest of dam is made up of either elastic silt, lean clays or sandy clays.
Why ? Because if you don't, this is what happens and how quickly. The first dam likely wasn't made from the materials you quoted. They were developed through studies like this.
This simply illustrates the reasons why your developed technology is necessary.
I wonder how much funding this got... I used to do the same thing in my backyard as a kid
A dam is made of silt?
That is what i thought . But probably they measured the density of what real dam is made of and the one with slit . And according to the water pressure they decided to go with slit.
It can explain why the ice near flow is collapsing faster than which is not
I wonder how this scales up to fit a model of a real dam. What are the math behind it.
Im really interested in your research. Have you posted more videos like this? Also what University was this study done with?
USGS
When those white pieces are about to go with the current it looks like light when it can’t escape a black hole a little bit
I feel bad for whoever had to watch his amazing sand hill be destroyed. XD
Nexanian Studios whoever built this knew this was gona happen...
"Why do natural and man-made dams quickly collapse when the water level exceeds the height of the barrier" From description, now what im wondering is why did they score the top of the dam? How does introducing a mechanical break have anything to do with the water level on the top side of the dam rising to the point of overflow?
it's just a way to simulate the onset of the overtopping
Udalix
That’s exactly what I wanted to address, too.
Daniel Garcia-Castellanos
Overflowing and the collapsing of a dam after aggravation of a mechanical breach aren’t the same, or?
Notice how the breach carves a semicircular edge as it moves back and wider?
In UK there are several coves that show this such as Malham Cove.
Horseshoe Falls, Igueza Falls, that one in Iceland.
The split screen thing didn't do it for me, nor the views that were clearly shot in portrait, then rotated to landscape...I would have preferred a full screen landscape view from the front, as shown up to 0:18
And this kids is why you NEVER eat Taco Bell right before going to bed.
this was almost summerville dam wv in 2016 because we store water for rafters to release water to go faster. it cost people there homes cause they stored to much water and had to release it. 8 ' from breaching. it almost cost us thousand's of homes and business
Yep. But it cleaned out thrle river pretty well when they douched it tho..
Hace 70 años ya se utilizo esa tecnica para contruir el pantano de Thous en Valencia ( España ) cuando el pantano revento en 1982 por las intensas lluvias, las inundaciones, no provocaron ninguna victima.
You guys have a fun job.
For TH-cam, the top Left video should have been only used.
Nice and impressive. Is there a relation between water depth and how wide the breakthrough will be?
Yes the bigger body of water you have, the bigger the hydrolic power. Water can move stones.
These people are thinking too small. There is a relation between water velocity and its erosive power because higher water velocity means that it can carry more sediment and rocks. When the velocity drops, the water can dump out this sediment almost instantaneously.
Water depth affects whether the flow will be laminar or turbulent. If you have deep enough water it will be a laminar flow even when passing over hills and obstacles, leaving only a turbulent trail of sediment in it's wake. When flood waters hit a unpassable barrier it will generate waves which reflect back, if the barrier is not perpendicular, interference patterns will be generated.
Water depth does affect the height and separation of sediment dunes left by the flood, so there is a relation you can use to determine the depth of water by the height and spacing of sediment ripples it leaves behind.
By the way, if you zoom in on desert dunes or any other dunes on Earth, you will almost always find rocks and gravel. This is particularly true about dunes in Scandinavia which contain mostly rocks and boulders. If you want to try to calculate the depth of water in a very interesting flood, by the height and spacing of wave ripples, you should try the Libyan desert. There are many examples of interference patterns there. Ripple spacing is often around 2 kilometers.
Interesting fact: The upper sedimentary layer all over the Earth is comprised of dunes, wave ripples and basin deposits, with massive amounts of tumbled (round) rocks and gravel. These all seem to be deposited in the same event. Canada and the US is of particular interest as we now have Lidar images of the area. You can literally trace the flood waters as they pass between the mountains. Norway, Sweden and Finland also have Lidar imagery which is down to 1 meter and 2 meter resolution showing the exact path of flood waters and mixing of currents.
Interesting question: "What is the velocity of a flood/tsunami that is 1 kilometer high?"
@@michaelleewagaman301 But wind cannot move stones. Take a closer look at the desert "sand dunes".
Is it useful to measure the force on the walls .... Particularly at breaching section....
meet
I just find you in the most random places.
are you a war thunder player thef86f
Fahd El khamlichi yes
thef86f lol, me too except i don't have the f86f :(
Fahd El khamlichi i have it researched but i don't have the lions, but i have the a5 :/
Why is this so satisfying?
Why would you skip 25 seconds and go from a stream to a leveled pile of sand.
An excellent video, thanks for posting.
Bill S
Type in - Black Rock River breach, and Black Rock River breach part 2.
I bet all those white dots are intentional and there to measure current speeds using the camera footage and some reference marks.
Very interesting but what’s the purpose of this experiment if damns are made from solid concrete and rebar several feet thick? Even the foundation of a damn extends well below the surface it sits on.
My YT recommendations after I watch 1 video about ship and 1 video about dam:
We have plenty more...😏😏
So what does it show except the fact that things will only get worse before they get better?
That's alot of damage! Needs flex tape
so the difference between kids and adults is just the scale of the playground right?
While an outstanding model here in this video, it's primary representation is of exponentially compounding soil erosion via an overflow breach. The factor it lacks is a vegetative layer on the dry side of the damn. I would much enjoy seeing this time lapse experiment recreated with an established wide blade grass type on the outflow side of the damn as well as the top of the damn above water to analyze the erosive resistance provided by both the subterranean root system as well as the shingle like layer created by the grass blades as the water as the water forces them unidirectionally.
As well, I find it would be much more naturally accurate to commence the breach by overflowing the water body as opposed to scratching an initial breach channel with a tool.
Do the little white dots represent people who were out for a nice swim in the lake?
Don't build dams out of beachsand, got it. Would a tiny layer of actual concrete in the core of the dam stop the erosion, while the sand merely acts to stabilize it?
I build many dams on canals when i was young. No one made from sand and mud survive...only rocky ones held in the heaviest rain!
So basically recreated the Johnstown Flood of May 31,1889.
I think the guy with the pneumatic tool was somewhat instigating this. notice the pneumatic noises throughout the video. However, is a good representation of a dam breach.
How do you get this awesome job?
Muy interesante, una pregunta, cuales serian las conclusiones de este experimento? Muchas gracias.
Mira el texto bajo el video, hay enlaces
This is also equivalent to what an underwear would experience an hour after having Taco Bell
Sometimes I think it would have been cool to have been a civil engineer, but then I remember I'm a mechanical engineer and I get over it.
Was there an angry duck battle going on in the background?
What I don't get is that on the bottom right camera you can see see a jet stream underwater hitting the dam. Is that what actually compromised it or does that simulate the natural flow of the water?
I do not see a jet stream under water. What I see clearly in the bottom left view is debris is being pulled/pushed to the ever widening gap of the dam due to the increased flow of the water. Is that what you mean?
Thanks for uploading!😇
Does this actually happen for large scale concrete damns?
For example if i made a 5 foot opening hole like this on something like the hoover damn, would it eventually just fail?
not easy that overtopping causes this at concrete dam, depends on how well protected the secondary spillway is designed, how long erosion can damage the boundaries... But search "teton dam failure" and also look at this: th-cam.com/video/_VRGTkCv3sU/w-d-xo.html
I have read that in the case of Hoover Dam, the canyon walls will give way before the dam itself will. But most dams are no as solidly built as Hoover.
I literally watched one dam video now I’m watching hindreds
How is this sand dam representative to a real dam ?
So this is supposed to simulate a giant with a rake or something breaching a miniature dam? Doesn't water flow act completely different when it has more mass behind it? This would be the equivalent to driving a RC and comparing it to a full size one.
Does time get scaled up along with a model. I.e. 1\100 scale model takes 1\100 the time. I wonder
Why the skip. Wanted to see it all unfold
just like the sand box, I used to spend hours in.
It would be pretty hard to stop this in the natural world but the way of stopping it in the sand box, was:
large mass object, in which then the water starts to build against and then spills over again, unless the hose is removed.
A large hand of sand put into the spill.
Forced demolition of the side ways before it expands to it collapses into the trench.
other things that could be used, a large amount of substances that expand and react with and too the water changing its properties and state that can be removed, such as a chaining it to gelatine or viscus substance, which then adds even more work attempting to filter out the added substance.
Alterantivly, other solutions from the sand box, have been, destroying the rear side of the damn so the flow comes out the back side and around to the front, saving further erosion from the primary structure thus also creating much relief.
Alternatively again, is building a damn system like the panama canal, but on a massive scale. So much like Oroville damn or something. one could create artificial massive pits, in which the water flows into, this would temporary change the seasons and the water production of the area until nature rebalances it, you create this massive reservoir system all the way to eh ocean, down multude of reservoirs. This way if there isa damn pill or collapse, it all flows to the ocean, which would be unlikely, because the the damn system would be a fall system in which is a controlled decent to the ocean like a stair system. The system of flow could be moderate heavily on a massive scale, and the only real danger is solvent of water properties and deterrent and decay of the geologial features...
So how to stop it or better yet, how to control how the water returns. Then what is the purpose of the water? TO return? TO feed the thirst.
That was cool but why so many angles... less is more
Well if your going build a Dam with Sand 🤷♂️😂
The person who set up this video recording doesn't appear to realize that the viewers are NOT seeing what's actually going on in the background therefore would be better to show the sorroundings so people can get an idea or a better understanding of what's happening
What is all that air hose blowing noise all about??
why the hell would you go through that much trouble of making something like that then skip the main part where the dam actually failed?
james snook Full video in the description
Thumbs down for splitting up the view and then fast forwarding. Just show it. Cmon maaaan.
U skipped the only 25 secs I clicked on the video for 😂😂😂🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️
possible senario for the Oroville dam?
Why did you skip the most eventful 25 seconds?
It sounds like I'm cooking eggs in the morning.
To everyone that states "we don't build real dams out of sand" I will say that many real dams are made of sand. People build with what is available at the site. If sand or silt is all that is available, guess what the dam is made of? Answer, sand or silt. It is simply cost prohibitive to haul in all the material from offsite. In the early days of ash basins, the dams were literally made of ash tailings which many consider even worse than sand for dam building.
Why skip seconds?
Aca en colombia estamos pasado por un peligro parecido dicen q solo s cuestion de tiempo Dios mio
puedes concretar el lugar? Me das alguna pista?
Daniel Garcia-Castellanos buenas la represa se llama hidroituango se encuentra en el departamento de antioquia colombia
What does this apply to in a real life scenario or is this what earth and water means from 300 King Leonitas this is Sparta kicks
That, my friend, is how waterfalls are born
Is this desiccation fissuring ?
Hmm. TH-cam recommendation algorithm needs work.
Wolffer Wilhelm Or does it? you clicked it didn't you? as did I....
The skipping made it annoying to watch.
You have the full video here:
th-cam.com/video/J08__r3H1LI/w-d-xo.html
Water, the most influential molecule on earth. This the power it has when affected by gravity, the most influential force in the universe.
never seen a dam have a sand barrier to keep the water in.
Dams are not built with sand as I understand so what is the point of this?