@@johnmurdoch8534 yes it's a baroque violin with gut strings, so playing at baroque pitch which is A=415, a semitone below modern pitch. If you have the score the rest of the sonata is good as well, we play it all in concerts.
Not yet but we are going to, this is the most catchy though! I just had a look at your channel, very interesting you play really well! I heard of the zither as a folk instrument but didn't know too much about it. I was trying to understand how the open strings are played - are they chromatic bass strings? I am very keen on playing lesser known music so it's nice to come across new things.
Thanks, do you do video editing? I generally try and time shot changes to the music which I think makes it more coherent, and speed of changes also to the tempo of the music, so faster in this as the music is fast. Compare to this one that was filmed at the same time, as the music is slower it suited slower changes and more fades etc. th-cam.com/video/3jFNOTYQJ-8/w-d-xo.html
Yes it is nice to play some of this later repertoire on a lute. Vienna was one of the places where the mandora/lute was played most in the 19th century. There are some paintings I wanted to look at by Amerling (e.g. in the Belvedere) but didn't have time when I was there. The Kunsthistorisches Museum was also closed when I went which I wanted to see.
This piece is later than that, around 1812, but the style is very much classical, Scheidler was 9 years older than Mozart but lived a long time (82, quite an achievement without modern medicine!). Yes I used to have a group years ago including violin and cello and we always played the Cassation, I think that and a quartet are the only surviving pieces. There are more mentioned in the Breitkopf catalogues from that time, which have presumably been lost. I doubt they were done by Haydn, as there are occasional 'mistakes', but still nice to be able to play things like that. Mozart also wrote a few bars at least for the lute in 1790.
In fact, there is a lute divertimento Hob IV:F2 (this type of catalogue entry usually means Hoboken is doubtful about the authenticity of a piece) and (presumably) the Cassation you mention, Hob. III:6 (which implies Hoboken believes it is authentic).
I think the other piece is a quartet which I have somewhere, adapted from a Haydn string quartet as is the Cassation, but as the viola doesn't add much there it can be absorbed into the other parts. There are quite a lot of original lute trios for lute, violin & cello (later mandora, violin & cello) from the 18th century, mostly written by player composers as it's such an idiomatic instrument. This was a precursor of the piano trio, whether it had any role in inspiring that who knows, but there are quite a lot of examples.
Forgot to say, the music is 100% by Haydn as there are autograph string quartets with the same material, it is the arrangements that are questionable. There were quite a few more than these 2 listed in the Breitkopf catalogues, so they were published in Haydn's time as well.
Thank you, they were tuned either in D or E, mine is a Viennese model so in E. There is more information about it here, which is also the last surviving piece that specifies mandora: th-cam.com/video/HzexBS6-IUM/w-d-xo.html
Thank you for the answer! I saw that the basses are D and C but when you say the instrument is tuned to E does that mean the other 6 strings are tuned like a guitar, or is it tuned an E chord more like a baroque lute? My apologize if I missed that information in my reading.
I hesitate to say "tuned like a guitar" because that implies that the tuning came from the guitar which it certainly didn't, but yes same intervals. The first mandora (also called gallichon or variants) was tuned in D like a bass lute or viola da gamba, this tuning existed right the way though but they also started to tune a tone higher in E later on. This happens to be the same as the guitar, but arrived at a different way. The mandora had the 6th course way before the guitar, which had only 5 courses until the end of the 18th century and in some cases beyond.
@@Quatrapuntal thank you very much for such a detailed response! The instrument has really captured my imagination as a classical guitarist who wants to move over to lute.
This is the latest version of it from the early 19th century, earlier mandoras often had double strings although there are some single strung even from the early 18th century when it originated. There is more info about it in the description of this video: th-cam.com/video/HzexBS6-IUM/w-d-xo.html
Love how the lute and the violin play off each other in this piece!
Yes it's nice to get the tune sometimes! Usually I am accompanying but this is very much equal, so nice for me to play something different like this.
I'm attemping to learn this piece on fiddle and notice that it appears you are playing in a lower tuning, perhaps a half step down ? @@Quatrapuntal
@@johnmurdoch8534 yes it's a baroque violin with gut strings, so playing at baroque pitch which is A=415, a semitone below modern pitch. If you have the score the rest of the sonata is good as well, we play it all in concerts.
Beautiful! Did you also record the other movements? I would love to hear them!
Not yet but we are going to, this is the most catchy though! I just had a look at your channel, very interesting you play really well! I heard of the zither as a folk instrument but didn't know too much about it. I was trying to understand how the open strings are played - are they chromatic bass strings? I am very keen on playing lesser known music so it's nice to come across new things.
The editing is superb!
Thanks, do you do video editing? I generally try and time shot changes to the music which I think makes it more coherent, and speed of changes also to the tempo of the music, so faster in this as the music is fast. Compare to this one that was filmed at the same time, as the music is slower it suited slower changes and more fades etc. th-cam.com/video/3jFNOTYQJ-8/w-d-xo.html
Wonderful as always
Thank you very much for that fun. It invits for dancing.
Yes it is nice to play some of this later repertoire on a lute. Vienna was one of the places where the mandora/lute was played most in the 19th century. There are some paintings I wanted to look at by Amerling (e.g. in the Belvedere) but didn't have time when I was there. The Kunsthistorisches Museum was also closed when I went which I wanted to see.
Another good video.
Since we are in the later XVIII century, have you investigated Haydn's two trii with lute?
This piece is later than that, around 1812, but the style is very much classical, Scheidler was 9 years older than Mozart but lived a long time (82, quite an achievement without modern medicine!). Yes I used to have a group years ago including violin and cello and we always played the Cassation, I think that and a quartet are the only surviving pieces. There are more mentioned in the Breitkopf catalogues from that time, which have presumably been lost. I doubt they were done by Haydn, as there are occasional 'mistakes', but still nice to be able to play things like that. Mozart also wrote a few bars at least for the lute in 1790.
In fact, there is a lute divertimento Hob IV:F2 (this type of catalogue entry usually means Hoboken is doubtful about the authenticity of a piece) and (presumably) the Cassation you mention, Hob. III:6 (which implies Hoboken believes it is authentic).
I think the other piece is a quartet which I have somewhere, adapted from a Haydn string quartet as is the Cassation, but as the viola doesn't add much there it can be absorbed into the other parts. There are quite a lot of original lute trios for lute, violin & cello (later mandora, violin & cello) from the 18th century, mostly written by player composers as it's such an idiomatic instrument. This was a precursor of the piano trio, whether it had any role in inspiring that who knows, but there are quite a lot of examples.
Forgot to say, the music is 100% by Haydn as there are autograph string quartets with the same material, it is the arrangements that are questionable. There were quite a few more than these 2 listed in the Breitkopf catalogues, so they were published in Haydn's time as well.
Those were the two I have on CD.
Oh this is great! How do you tune your Mandora?
Thank you, they were tuned either in D or E, mine is a Viennese model so in E. There is more information about it here, which is also the last surviving piece that specifies mandora: th-cam.com/video/HzexBS6-IUM/w-d-xo.html
Thank you for the answer! I saw that the basses are D and C but when you say the instrument is tuned to E does that mean the other 6 strings are tuned like a guitar, or is it tuned an E chord more like a baroque lute? My apologize if I missed that information in my reading.
I hesitate to say "tuned like a guitar" because that implies that the tuning came from the guitar which it certainly didn't, but yes same intervals. The first mandora (also called gallichon or variants) was tuned in D like a bass lute or viola da gamba, this tuning existed right the way though but they also started to tune a tone higher in E later on. This happens to be the same as the guitar, but arrived at a different way. The mandora had the 6th course way before the guitar, which had only 5 courses until the end of the 18th century and in some cases beyond.
@@Quatrapuntal thank you very much for such a detailed response! The instrument has really captured my imagination as a classical guitarist who wants to move over to lute.
Mooi samenspel. Mandora, nooit van gehoord maar ik ben meteen fan!
Lots more mandora on this channel! Try this: th-cam.com/video/HzexBS6-IUM/w-d-xo.html
Was that a multi cam shoot or did you play it multiple times?
Both, there is no way you can get that many different shots from one play through.
Note that the mandora is a single-strung lute. Most members of the lute family have double courses.
This is the latest version of it from the early 19th century, earlier mandoras often had double strings although there are some single strung even from the early 18th century when it originated. There is more info about it in the description of this video: th-cam.com/video/HzexBS6-IUM/w-d-xo.html
HEY MR HIRST