Shouldn't be called "Humaning" ? Since fishing is the activity of catching/hunting a fish, humaning must be the activity for catching/hunting humans, for sport or food. - Something smells human around here... isn't that strange ? :3
Something people overlook is that underwater, streamlined shapes have a *massive* advantage. An optimally designed double-edged sword faces almost 50% less drag than the equivalent single-edged sword. And, if you shaved off some of the edge so the cross-section would look like an airfoil and used the thicker edge to slash, you could reduce the drag even further, by up to 70% compared to a symmetric double-edged sword. Now if you held the sword close to the body, you could slash at any enemies with almost no drag penalty.
I was think of this too a rapier like sword would be great and stiletto daggers as well would be a good one to do as well. But what else can be in a merfolks arsenals that would make sense
That’s so stupid. By that logic humans can’t eat any type of mammal because it’s ‘cannibalism’, heck depending on how far you take it by that logic humans can’t eat land animals at all because it’s‘cannibalism’.
I feel like humans would counter this by just making their boats have higher walls, maybe with windows and doors. Which the Merfolk could counter by just hooking the boats to sink them. The humans could counter this again, by putting roofs on their boats and boom! Now boats in settings with aggressive Merfolk are just glorified barrel houses. Well done, Merfolks. You just made humans accidentally invent Sub-marines.
Dr. Archaeopteryx Modern scuba divers wear chainmail to protect against shark bites. Rivited chainmail would be highly prized by mermaids for stopping shark bites and would buy it with gold found in sunken ships. Sailors could use it as a bargaining ship for safe passage by leaving one of thier own at shore with the chainmail while the rest go on boat.
I mean, I guess that makes sense. But I feel like mermen would have a similar effect like humans, where nearby predators adapt to avoid them and thus chainmail armor would possibly only be necessary for remote regions, travelers and huntsmermen. This might change if humans are portrayed as "The vengeful race" within the setting, thus making each and every other species less prone to revenge by assumption. However prepared metal products, in general, would likely be in high demand with the Merfolk anyways, given that they would be pretty much incapable of smelting. Albeit they could maybe work around that by using stone and (drift-)wooden tools, which would, of course, be less effective, but also make them less dependent on the local landlubbers.
I know this is 2~3 years late, but some thoughts I had: I think a weapon used in merpeople-merpeople fights wouldn't be spears or any land weapons. The reason is because water resistance does a lot more than just making weapons like maces suck more. It makes _all_ movement that isn't 'forwards while showing least surface area' harder to do. A spear won't make an effective underwater weapon because while thrusts would be easy, swinging the spear around won't be. But why would you want to swing a spear underwater? Because underwater, attacks can come from all sides, up and down included. When we humans fight with spears, all we really need to do is thrust, because whoever we're fighting are probably going to in front of us. Especially so in group fights(like a war) where your sides and back are covered by your comrades. A merpeople can be holding a spear out in front of then and all the other merperson needs to do is swim out of the way. If you've gone swimming a lot, you'll know but keeping your _arm_ aimed at a good swimmer is hard enough with the drag. A entire spear? Unless the merfolk swims really really slow, it's most likely going to be near impossible to keep the point aimed at them if they choose to swim around you. I think weapons merpeople use would be ones they can use while in motion. Instead of going face to face with someone and trading blows, it'd be easier to just swim at them really fast and try to get them while you swam past. So something like a short fin-like blade they can attach to their sides or arms to slash at people by swimming past them, or things like a battering ram cone to hold in front of them and kinda smash into people really hard.
This brings up really valid points. Other points would be the impossibility of "merfolk" to work metal underwater. Plus the quickness with which sea water would corrode such weapons, even ones "found," that were dropped by "land dwellers." I still feel that spears would be a valid weapon, but made from material like Narwhal or Swordfish. Small fighting knives made from wood with sharks teeth or obsidian glass. Weapons with serrated edges for long slashings in "Swim by" attacks.
Instead of metal they could also use sharp corals. Maybe they even cultivate some specifically for that purpose. In some depictions they are more beast-like than human, with just the rough shape being close, so they could have sharp teeth or claws. And instead of riding horses, they could grab a whales fin. Maybe even make some sort of "saddle" like a harness with a bunch of grips on it.
These fin-like blades would also help them against the most dangerous weapon humans could use against them: weighted nets. They could cut them just by moving the arms. Could come handy to have some blades attached to their fins as well …
But if the opponent is agile enough to just get out of the way, then you could presumably course correct before making your thrust no? You say moving forward is easiest, but a merfolk can change which direction IS forward very quickly. And the more reach you have, the less course correction you need to do to land a hit, because you can strike them sooner, from farther away, and thrust in the direction they're trying to dodge in. In other words, with a spear, they would need to dodge further and sooner for it to work, but the sooner they try to dodge, the easier it is to course correct because at that distance a small change in angle equals a bigger change in destination. It could in effect be something like the underwater equivalent of a cavalry charge with lances. Additionally, you could use spears to defend against any merfolk trying to use "swim by weapons" like your proposed fin blades. I think ideally, a hydrodynamic spear in addition to those fin blades you mentioned, short swords/daggers and such would be ideal. Maybe even tail blades, to maximize your attack options in battle. That said, crafting and maintaining bladed weapons underwater would be a significant challenge.
Merfolk, may be vegetarians in some fantasies but I think in most the ocean is a fish eat fish world. Also, it is not cannibalism unless the other fish is the same species as the one consuming it. To flip the script for example, no one calls it cannibalism when a falcon takes down a pigeon for dinner even though they are both birds. Onto the main topic, I agree that the spear is the best weapon suited to the merfolk. I envision them using them to keep large predatory fish at bay. Jabbing at each other in close combat (or a surface folk) and swimming with them protruding lance-like for goring attacks. I disagree with the sword choice. Any slashing weapon meant to be wielded in typical fashion for us surface folk would be at a serious disadvantage in a underwater. The most effective strikes would come from piercing weapons thrusting through the water. A possible exception could be slashing weapons designed to be dragged across an opponent while the merfolk swim past, assuming they swim at speeds akin to large fish or dolphins. Drawing from their environment, I imagine modified whale bones lined or tipped with sharks teeth. Being a fantasy realm many more combinations could be conceived.
@Donald Schmidt I was think that a rapier type sword would be a good choice as it operates on the thrusting principle. Narwhal horns? Swordfish bills? I am sure there are a few more options that occur naturally in the ocean as well.
saying that a merfolk eating a trout is cannibalism since they're both fish is like saying that a human eating a cow is cannibalism since they're both mammals.
To be fair, there are many, many fish and marine animals that are herbivores, including manatees, which supposedly inspired the idea of mermaids (and may be the inspiration behind vegetarian merfolk). It’s definitely possible for large mammals to be herbivorous in the ocean, mermaids would just have to be adapted to digest it efficiently. However, I definitely think merfolk would be omnivores like humans, eating a bit of everything. But it could realistically go either way.
Humans eat mammals. If Merfolk can tolerate fresh water I would think they would base their economy heavily on rivers but even if not they would still dominate the ocean and extract tribute. I can image a merfolk kingdom at a marine chokepoint being very, very wealthy. Throughout history control over critical waterways like the straight of Mallaca, Straight of Gibralter, Strait of Phosperous, channel strait, straight of Hormuz and so on have created some of the wealthiest empires in history.
But the problem is how You can't use explosives you die. The under belly if most likely plated with copper. You have to focus on it with a drill. The ship is always moving. How can you chase a ship while drilling a spot lmao
I remember watching a horror movie that combined the mermaid and siren myths. Essentially, a mermaid allowed herself to be captured by a team of researchers and started entrancing the men in the group. Once she had control over them, she made them take her to her home where she transformed into a monster and started butchering them to feed to the other mermaids in the water.
Humans came for their fish and now they're coming for human hearts! This Summer prepare yourself for...MER-MURDER...THE MURMAIDENING...28 MERMAIDS LATER...THE MERMAIDS HAVE EYES...DAWN OF THE MERMAIDS! RATED R!
I think that daggers might also work in place of swords for a secondary weapon. They might not be as effective, but mermaids can also move faster than most humanoids underwater, so being able to get close and stab then dart off could be effective.
The use of the trident in fishing isn't because fish move fast - it's because of a thing called refraction. Water bends light, so an image of a fish underwater, as seen from above, it's actually not where it appears to be. The most important thing to consider underwater is actually light. I'd be more interested in the way merfolk use signals to manoeuvre in formation. I imagine coordination is the most powerful weapon they could use. I believe dolphins use this to kill sharks.
Dolphins often "play" to death sharks (Who don't play), and use their concussive sound waves also. Latter meaning they have ways to signal and attack using sound. Wouldnt be surprised if they couldnt tell who is a dolphin and who is not just from sounds back from their own sounds too.
Tridents usually cause far more bleeding than a spear but not for the reason you are thinking. It has to do with what tridents are actually designed to do, versus what spears are designed to do.) Tridents have backwards facing barbs which tear and shred flesh when the weapon is yanked out. It's not a straight puncture wound, but a ragged hole. This is because a trident is not designed to come out in the first place. (it's a fishing tool first and foremost. The only reason we think of it as a weapon at all is because roman gladiators were sometimes given tridents so the audience could have a giggle.) Spears are usually either a straight sharp point or a short blade, which allows them be removed from a target fairly quickly. When you are on a battlefield this is a critical thing. If your weapon gets stuck you have effectively disarmed yourself. The fact that it doesn't severely maim surrounding tissue when it comes out is simply a by-product.
explosives are far more deadly to the merfolk though. the air bubbles that allow fish and i'm guessing merfolk to control their buoyancy get shredded by shock waves and shock waves are far larger underwater than in air. depth charges would be the only really effective way of fighting (more accurately massacring) merfolk and it would kill all unfortunate humans in the water as well.
Electricity? Only if they were to touch something conductive. Otherwise it would just seek the closest opposite charge. If you fire a taser at them perhaps.
Well now we're dwelling on *non-medieval* weapons, and I believe in the modern era we have PLENTY of different ways to fight -massacre- the merfolks. The guys during the Middle Ages? Not so much.
@@Hereticalable All thosr sound pretty heavy. Wouldn't the boat sink with them? But, indeed, those are some pretty creative ways to counter merfolk. Maybe not ideal, there might be a breach they can exploit somewhere, but definitely a solid defense. Or offense. Seems like boats of this kind would've been made specifically to fight merfolk.
and you can make multi layered botom of the ships, so it would take them forewer to drill through it. Also wood which woould separate layers could be of lots of weird shapes in order to push drills always of the center, what would stop drilling every time.
Drills have a great many downsides too. I challenge you to get some scuba gear and try to drill through the underneath of a moving dinghy in calm water, let alone near the surface of an ocean. You will need to keep the drill steady whilst swimming along with an irregularly moving object, possibly fighting currents and somehow turn the handle in a circular motion ALL at the same time. A slight mistake will get your drill lodged in the wood of the ship, and probably damage it. All the while the water will be resisting the motion of your hands, the inner parts of your drill and the actual drillbit all at once for massive drag. It IS possible though. Now you have a hole in the bottom of the ship after an extremely impressive feat of drilling. How large is this hole exactly? Maybe the size of a tap? So let's go with that and say it's like having a tap fully open and is leaking through about 100mL/s. If we're talking small rowing boat, this is easy for one person to bail out, and it would take a full fifteen minutes to add the weight of a single person to the boat if left unattended. Ah, but what about a bigger boat and many more drills? Well bigger boats have more crew and typically carry maintentance equipment. Due to the difficulties of drilling underwater on a moving and heaving target, it is WAY easier to patch a hole than to make it. Still, even if you put a hundred unattended holes in a viking longship, it would take around 15 minutes to begin to compromise the ship. Thing is, that's 15 minutes of an obvious (and fixable) problem going unattended by about 30 people. Furthermore, drills are absurdly hard to make underwater, and if made of materials intended for use above water, they would not last long, either in use or just being underwater. Oceans are pretty big too, so it would be quite the task to source them to the intended victim, not to mention a seriously challenging feat of capability to make EACH hole, Never mind 100 of them. And THEN you need to distract the occupants of the ship for long enough to not either fill the holes with resin OR bail out the water. Since the drilling is a hard task, any environmental circumstances like storms that might hamper the victims is likely to hamper the drillers far more. Finally bear in mind that all of this still assumes the most favourable scenario for the merfolk as possible: the humans are unaware that merfolk even exist and have never developed any countermeasures, while the merfolk have perfect understanding of the workings of the humans' ships, and have an impressive supply system for extremely specialised equipment for precisely this task.Oh and by the way, out of the water, the humans can't hear you laugh.
In most depictions of mermaids I've scene (at least ones with sufficient world building; a single episode of a cartoon doesn't count) the trident is typically reserved for mermaid royalty, in fact there'd usually just be this one specific trident used by the King, clearly drawing inspiration from Poseidon/Neptune. Regular merfolk usually use spears, or harpoons.
One thing I think you missed it that Mer technology would develop based on what they encounter the most and not just anti-land humanoid. This would be other water races and creatures and based on the fact they have to fight three dimensionally. Spears can be useful in some cases but since the target can dodge in any direction it would be easy to miss alongside a poor recovery time between strikes (thus a trident is still somewhat relevent due to it's wider strike range). Extreme close fighting would likely be the norm. Personally I think a falx (or more likely a smaller version of one) would be better for them than a scimitar (as you mentioned), since the cutting edge is inverted and it would be easier hook and pull at enemies. Last time I played a DnD that went underwater for a significant time, the sahuagin (fish-men) used katars and tiger claw weapons to deadly effect since the water effected them less than standard weapons. TL;DR Inverted curved blades, hooks (used as a hand weapon) and small hand weapons would be the best, in my opinion.
While any spear-wielder would definitely want a shorter sidearm in case of forward- dodging, I think you forgot that merfolk would be smaller than their worst enemies, on the whole, esp. in a fantasy setting. sea serpents, etc. would idealy be fought from a small distance with spears, not grappling. I'm not sure about sharks; if they are less agile than the mermen, clsoe up may actually be the best distance now that i consider it, but sea serpents and such would be too great a hazard at grappling range with coils, since even if the merfolk don't asphyxiate (depends on their breahtign apparatus) their ribs and such could be crushed. therefore spears would be a good choice, esp. if they utilized a paralyzing poison of some sort. against smaller, individual targets with presumably great agility and speed, a trident might be better, but spreading out imapct force across 3 different prongs would be less than ideal 'gainst larger armored creatures. against swarms, armor is the first obvious countermeasure, together with nets (coordinated between multiple mermen?) and a smaller curved blade that they can weild quickly and up close. About the falx, the forward swept tip could be much harder to keep on course if it went across a current than a back-swept blade, though this difficulty woudl diminish the shorter the blade got. the same problem would occur with any weapon containing a forward- sweep, such as a khopesh.
not if their entire bodies have scales like their arms. That with their extra strength just to survive in the ocean...you know water pressure. i'm sure it wouldnt be an issue for them to use any weapon much better underwater
Remember mer-folk have another depth to there combat, the have three directions they could move ( up-down, left-right and forwards-backwards) so there idea of combat would be much more different to regular land combat ( forward-backward, left-right). Ergo some bizarre weapon designs would possibly work under the sea, As well as some combat styles unthinkable be us land-people. Spears are a great idea but what of bladed gauntlets. I've always thought of mermaids fighting would look like under water jousting. Like how a shark rockets through the water to attack its prey.
RNGesus 838 especially depending on what they are fighting against. if its sea monsters they would most likely use something that could hook into gills or mouth and rip the flesh. perhaps a assassins creed wrist mounted curved serrated blade?
i thought about daggers because all you can do is stab under water, also sears are less effective because they wouldnt fight in a formation. So i agree.
Had the same thought i think maybe a common tactic would be to swim down under ur opponent and slice his fin so he is imobalized completly. But maybe because of that they would always fight at the ground.
More so in that merfolk would be far more like sea mammals than fish anyway. Stupid stuff stupid Disney came up with because they wanted talking fish and all fish is equal because stupidity. If cats and dogs was smart and could speak it would not stop us from eating pigs and cows.
I'd assume part of the reason tridents were used was also to account for refraction. Since you're not entirely certain if the image you're seeing is the actual target itself, having multiple prongs would help account for the inaccuracy.
Mike Young though since mermaids would be adapted for life underwater their eyes would be so as well, making it so light refraction only happens when above water, the opposite of how it would work for us.
Spears, curved swords, and grappling hooks are great. But I think the most common weapon would be a dagger. First, mermaids don't have access to fire or forges, and therefore don't have access to metalwork. They have to make do with simple weapons. Second, large weapons don't work well under water. Third, a mermaid's best tool in combat is their ability to swim. Up, down, every which way, darting as quick as a fish. It's much harder to do that when holding something even as simple as a spear. The normal problem with a dagger is that it has poor reach. But underwater, it's speed and small size become incredible advantages. It might not be the _best_ weapon, that still goes to a spear. But it shouldn't be underestimated. So yeah, they'd use sharp rocks and sharp rocks attached to sticks.
Especially since a dagger would be a very handy all-round tool. Want to eat a shelled creature? Much easier with a knife! Need to pry off some coral or mollusks from the bottom? Knife makes it easy! Someone in a boat passing by without a travelers permit? Knife the boat!
For a defence of the curved swords. metals can be obtainted through trade with surface dwellers, or raiding shipwrecks though that's certainly a better argument then the ones i've seen put through previously. Spears would be faster than daggers underwater due to hydrodynamics- there's a reason people use fishing spears. Only time they might be using knives to fight is due to repurposing, like, oyster knifes or some other utility blade.
Humans on a raft? They would not even need to engage combat. Attach a hook or more stealthly, to a single side of the boat, then get the heavy stuff and attach it to the other end of the ropes. Instant knock-over, everyone forced to swim in panic! Another fun method is two merfolks using one rope, jumping in sync above water to catch someone. Mostly a tabletop/movie flashy move, but still potentially effective. Other common methods are spear/javelin (can be made out of bones?) when jumping, because they don't need to care about if they miss as long as the weapon won't land on the boat, they just need to swim and get the weapon back. But yeah, pointy things are always a good choice indeed. And of course, the ultimate method to solo full crews, puncturing the boat so it sink. Takes more time and efforts...But again why engage combat if you can stay out of range? So, anything that can help with that, even if not effective in traditional combat, is high value weapon for them. The worse/best part about merfolk weaponry, is that almost everything they need are part of boat carried equipments. (rope, anchor, fishing trident, knife, ect) Merfolks would not have problems with casting swords or making weapons, they just collect anything they can out of the wreakages they causes. And that's their main advantage against landwalkers. (but also their main disadventage, especially with rust and rotting making every attack a time race to the next) They would not need proper combat methods unless fighting other sea creatures, including other merfolks. In that case, spear and buckler or small shield to deflect the opponent's spear seems quite good. Trident actually have an advantage over spear, as it can trap weapons like a sword's guard.
I think tridents would be used, but not for catching weapons- it isn't exactly easy to catch a spear thrust- rather, as they're fishing implements, they'd often be used simply because that's what the merfolk have on hand.
The jumping techniques, though certainly flashy, have the very obvious downside that if you miss, you land in the ship, where all the people in it can just stab you to death. Doubt it'd be used due to the high risk.
Arvos Crusader Suicide isn't a thing to joke about. Cancer, either. Besides, why would you say puns are bad...? I mean, some are terrible *cough* skeleton puns *cough* and that and all, but why did you even say that?? This is confusing.
+blackdeath4eternity Not really. Sometimes I feel like I'm worthless but then I notice I'm not?? My mind is a messed up place. But yes, laughing does help for at least a few minutes.
So, unexpectedly helpful! In my manuscript I have a scene where one of my characters is underwater and he is kind of drowning, but trying to fight off this enemy. The thing about the sword dragging through the water has made me re-think the scene a little. This character isn't really meant to beat the enemy, so I could raise the stakes a little by making him attempt a strike, but he feels the pressure of the water on his weapon, and him thinking that the weapon is going too slow. Just so you don't feel too sorry for him, he does survive.:)
*I'm not so sure whether merfolk wouldn't eat fish. Even if merfolk would biologically be fish rather than a humanoid -> mammal* (and let's not forget that mermaids have breasts and thus maybe breastfeed their children), *them eating fish would be the same thing as us eating other mammals, like beef, pork etc.* Especially since fish are pretty much the only animals living in the water, save for exceptions like whales and dolphins and the like, they most probably would eat fish unless they like to live of algae and corals alone...
They could eat crabs, squid, lobster, etc. Fish aren't the only fish in the sea, lol. Other than that, though, your point stands. Especially since the entire marine ecosystem is pretty much based on bigger fish eating smaller fish, so merfolk would probably see themselves eating other fish as just another part of the (marine) circle of life.
Pixel Fox Modern scuba divers wear chainmail to protect against shark bites. Rivited chainmail would be highly prized by mermaids for stopping shark bites and could buy it with gold found in sunken ships. Sailors could use it as a bargaining chip for safe passage by leaving one of thier own at shore with the chainmail while the rest go on boat.
@ Mary Dominguez: That would be a really interesting addition to a mermaid story! "Listen, scary mermaid lady, be cool? Okay? Look, I'm going to give you my chain mail, okay? It'll protect you from shark bites or other mermaids or whatever. Look, here it is. Here. Okay? We cool? We can pass?"
Pixel Fox WITH ONE Sailor LEFT AT SHORE WITH THE CHAINMAIL AS A HOSTAGE They cant go on land so they have no choice but to comply. Sailor: You ll get it when we get back to shore, Mermaid: (reluctantly agrees).
Pixel Fox In my lores timeline after Govin-Pre invent cars, mermaids have jobs collecting seaweed for factories to make into leather. Which is leather made from seaweed.
I think the underwater fights of mermen deserve an episode of their own! Fighting other tribes over territory sounds as reasonable underwater as it is on ground. Several points come to mind: Firstly, stealth is paramount. Visibility underwater is reduced, so you could maneuver large numbers behind enemy lines, as long as you don't make sound. Ink, or other visibility reducers become very strategic, covering retreats or hiding ambushes. Fear tactics through sheer noise of an unseen army would also be effective. Secondly, weapon material is an issue. Metallurgy and forging are only possible underwater if some magic is involved, which changes combat anyway. Otherwise one is left with stones, bones, sunk driftwood and the rare metal weapon sourced from the land-dwellers. Steel and iron will rust rapidly into nothingness, so you are left with bronze or brass tools re-purposed into weapons. Glass or crystal weapons might also have their niche, as they could be almost invisible underwater. Being underwater also allows for new weapons. Using "Ranged" weapons is not out of the question; Considering that the Macedonian sarissa, a 5 meter spear, was a very effective formation weapon, an even longer spear might be useful underwater. A 15-20 meter spear might be useful in a charge, as the attacker would be obscured until the very end. If it was made of materials with near neutral buoyancy, it would not be unwieldy for charging in a straight line. Nets and ropes, made of near transparent fibers are also quite handy. Massive nets, dragged by unseen assailants could disrupt and confuse forces, or break retreats. Same applies to smaller nets, used to break a charge and tangle attackers. The effect is more prominent depending on buoyancy, as it remains in the way until manually removed or circumvented.
One of the rifles the mythbusters tested even had a too high velocity to penetrate the surface tension. The bullet was crushed like on a concrete wall and the parts just sunk.
Lassos would be another possibility along those lines. One problem merfolk would have is an inability to forge metals underwater. Or, they could use a short, barbed spear with a rope affixed to the rear. Score a hit with the barbed end, then pull the human into the water. Basically, a fishhook for apes. :) Merfolk would probably look for ways to weaponize sea creatures. For example, think of something like a lacrosse stick with the basket filled with sea urchins or poison octopi (like the blue-ringed octopus). The merfolk pop up, lob the creatures into the boat and let the poison spines or bites do their work. If they could team up with/domesticate large and powerful creatures (whales, kraken, sea serpents, whatever), the merfolk could harry the humans with their weapons while the sea creature(s) capsize or ram the boat or ship. Their spears (something like a narwhal tusk?) could also be used to attack the rudder of a ship to pry it apart. If the humans can't steer, they're pretty much toast if they're out at sea... They could conceivably have slender pure thrusting swords like a rapier, smallsword, or estoc with a minimal guard to reduce water resistance. If they can't find a way to make swords, they could still trade for them, though metal weapons would still be less than ideal on account of rust and corrosion.
kevin crady i was gonna sugest the same thing thrusting sword with serations inspired by sawfish the serations ( i think more bread knife or kriss blade) would assist push and pull cuts while still aloowing for easy swimmingby being slender and if kept close to the body while swimming instead of what we think of as a hip scabbard would not hinder the merfolk at all
@@CaptainWobbs A nation of pirates allied with the Merfolk for dominian of the waves? Now the costal kingdoms launch a campaign to end their reign of terror??
What about crossbows? I would argue merfolk could simply load them underwater then pop up anywhere they want on the surface within range of the human boat and shoot at them, while easily recovering quarrels that missed. Also, any chemicals that might start a fire on a ship would be deadly Also about the hook idea, i would simply find a way to anchor their ship(s) from the hull so as to immobilize them and them wait for them to starve, I doubt they would risk going underwater to fix the problem, so you probably can just leave them there without even watching them
Agree on the crossbow. How much the tactic would be used, would depend on how often merfolk would figth humans on boats. If they rarely did it, they might not have come up with the idea, and dont know of any materials found under water that could be used to make a crossbow. Also alot of stuff found on dryland might not survive for long in salt water. But if the merfolk would often raid ships it sounds like a logical tactic to use. Also like the idea of starving people on the boat out, especialy in salt water. If the merfolk wanted to eat the sailors, a few drills could do the trick, with the stearing disabled and the anchored down, time would be on their side. Could see a scary story about a boat trapped at sea, nasty hungry merfolk around the water, and the boat slowly filling up with water, the crew getting desperate for food and water, and the merfolk slowly thinning them out.
Problem with anchoring is called knifes, they could just simply cut the rope, you have nothing to "pin" on boat that is lower than 2 meters above water
"The idea that merfolk use tridents for battle is actually a misconception, they use spears against wild sea animals and curved swords for more intellegent or humanoid foes. The use tridents as farming tools for fish and coral. Their some of the best fish 'n coral farmers in the industry, their most popular dish is śčolà de tisamò, a cooked chopped up fish wrapped in cooked coral."
@@chloej1611 Undersea vents, there are plenty of places underwater, especially near undersea volcanoes or other such active places where the water gets super hot from the vents, it wouldn't be that hard to cook something in such a situation if you knew what you were doing.
@@ShinKyuubi I've considered this too … but wouldn't the water be unbearably/unlivably hot? How would they get their food close enough to cook it without cooking themselves in the process?
@@chloej1611 Probably some type of tool, like the long handle things (don't know the name off the top of my head) that they use to put pizza into brick ovens. There's also the fact they may have a magic spell if we're talking fantasy, if they don't have magic, and can breath air above water (which many merfolk seem to do) they can have a home set up with a cooking area that is in an air pocket, like a cave or the like..look at the way things are done in One Piece's arc where the Straw Hats go to the Fishman Island that is under the sea.
How would they even produce metal weapons? Forging under water seems to be pretty problematic and as grinding a sword from a massive block of steel would take a lot of time. The only possible way to get metal weapons is by stealing/looting it from humans.
The problem of that though is how close could the Merfolk get to those vents, the water around it would be boiling. I would think the Merfolk would boil alive long before they got close enough to heat the metal.
A year late, I know, but there's a large concept that you didn't address that I think would have significant impact on underwater combat. Much like water has a much higher density and viscosity than open air (and thus a lot more drag which you addressed), *that same density also provides a lot more buoyancy and counteraction to the force of gravity.* This has two major impacts. The first has been addressed by another poster on the page: the location of your opponent. Depth and location in 3 dimensions becomes a big idea - just ask anybody who has fought in an underwater zone in an MMORPG. That's because the force provided by buoyancy means that not only can the weapon be heavier - but that the opponent themself can move through the medium differently. The other impact doesn't seem to have been addressed by anyone yet: while the _size, surface area, and swinging/thrusting profile_ of a weapon would need to _shrink,_ the _weight_ could actually *_increase_* with no major issues. I'm not entirely sure how that would look. However, it does mean that the construction of a lot of weapons can change. The weight of a blade would have less downside. Indeed, increased weight might provide a bit of counteraction to the issues with drag. The problem of course is that a lot of weapons that are heavier are also larger - which circles back around to the issue with drag. As for your idea of a grappling hook, I think you took a little too much time examining something that really wouldn't be as useful as you think. You're a merperson, why bother coming up above water to throw a grappling hook and expose yourself to arrow fire at all? Just come up underneath the boat and drill a hole in it underneath the waterline. Or multiple holes. Game over.
It wouldn't increase maximum weight much, though. Water is only a small fraction as dense as most materials you'd consider making weapons from, and mass would still be a problem. The biggest effect of buoyancy would be extra (or at least different ( trouble with unweighted wooden weapons.
Something else to bear in mind is that buoyancy and weight aren't the same thing; a tree is buoyant, but it has a significant amount of weight behind it. Now, I could be wrong about this, but this should mean that buoyancy could potentially be used as a driving force. I know trees getting dragged under the Mississippi River were incredibly dangerous to riverboats when they popped back up; so I'd imagine Merfolk could turn trees and logs into essentially underwater battering rams. Imagine you're just sailing across the sea, when suddenly BAM! A tree smashes through the bottom of your ship.
@@ashtongiertz8728 That is certainly a possibility. The big problems would be getting enough energy to move a tree underwater at a tech level where that's a useful weapon, and getting a whole tree when you live in the middle of the ocean. (Or even on the continental shelf-most trees break into little pieces before they reach the ocean.) You'd probably need to treat the wood so water didn't seep in, though. Or maybe create an air-filled cavity in the middle, somehow. And definitely put a spike on the business end!
Drilling a hole. How. You can try and drill it with a hand cranked drill, but its impossible with it moving You can't use explosives, (see dynamite fishing)
Takako Jin Modern scuba divers wear chainmail to protect against shark bites. Rivited chainmail would be highly prized by mermaids for stopping shark bites and could buy it with gold found in sunken ships. Sailors could use it as a bargaining chip for safe passage by leaving one of thier own at shore with the chainmail while the rest go on boat.
Depending on the abilities of the merfolk they could also use biological weapons. Fling jellyfish like bolos, weaponized lionfish, and urchin caltrops. The humans on the other side could use Greek fire and explosives to defend themselves.
I think that tridents would actually be more useful for merfolk than spears when fighting humanids on boats as you have 3 spikes going into the target that enables you to have a strong grasp on the enemy who you can drag out of his boat. Like grapling hooks if they keep cutting the ropes. Shelds would work if they had small holes to help avoid drag - a sheld made like shutters with big plates might be a way to go if one could be trained to move it in a way to not drag it. It would be also a nightmare to make, maintain and possible to destroy . I thought also of skeletal shelds made out of rods to block off chopping weapons but considering stabbing is the way to go underwater - wouldn't be as effective unless it's a specyfic weapon to use against sailors who are ill prepared for a merfolk ambush. Actually - normal shelds might work too. Using the fish tail the merfolk can change directions very fast and if they use pavis-sized shelds [they aren't as heavy underwater] to face the enemy as they come closer they can be fairly well defended as they use spear weapons to attack from around their sheld. I'm supriced that shad didn't say anything abaut rapiers. I could also see merfolk developing some kind of bigger siege engine to just sink ships without even bothering with individual crew members who can fight back. Maybe a ram propeled by a balista you place under a ship and sink it by poking holes in the underside with it because I assume taiming a whale to do that maybe isn't always possible.
I also belive that merfolk would actually use stone to make most of their weapons as other materials eather rust or are hard to come by. I can see them scavenging some swords and metal off killed sailors, so some their equipment might be just made from already metalic objects reshapen to use underwater. There is also the detail that when you think of a fight between mythical creatures in a realistic situation - there is the thing that ussually if fights are known to occur, people tend to fight countermeasures. I could see humans - or whatever else is fighting the merfolk - find ways to counter the fighting style seadwellers are forced to utilize. I can see them developing early harpoon lauchers from crossbows to maybe use an unsuspecting tactic of unexpectingly dump a few people with those underwater to snipe one or two merfolk and pull them back with ropes tied to their waists after a few secounds. I could see this beeing effecive to scare the merfolk off as their tactic is to savely pick away at the enemy, so losses would be rare and more devastating to them. Metal-reinforced hulls might be developed as an answer to the underwater battering balistas I was talking abaut. If you can make a sheld, then a ship's underside made out of them is still medieval technology. Merfolk need to submerge to use grappling hooks. And petroleum was known in the middle ages as flammable material, expecially known in the arabic world . I could see sailors pouring buring petroleum on submerging merfolk or throw them at them as bombs.
Some might say I overthink this but in a setting where merfolk raid absolutely evry ship people are going to get creative. And whatever ship is going to succed in it's travels will get ludicrously rich from egzotic material trade. I also thought of making hulls specially to counter grappling hooks. Making them higher with small windows for petroleum bombs or crossbow shots at submerging merfolk and limit the angles at which grapling hooks might be thrown in.
Meh in quite a few universes merfolk usually have siren bloodlines anyway. They just get a pretty one to sing and any people on the boat are basically dead. Oh they could stuff their ears I suppose. But at that point picking them off would be so much easier since they wouldn't be able to hear anything. That'd be interesting since in some stories (straight) women are immune to siren song. Would make for a nice diegetic explanation why sailors are all women. Don't think I've seen that one yet...
Alright, but how would they get that hole in though? Drills maybe, though I'm not sure drilling into a moving boat would be easy. Not to mention that it'd probably be a hand crank as power tools in a fantasy universe seems... off. Then there's the problem that sailing ships often had wooden or sometimes lead sheathing on the underwater hull. So you'd effectively be trying to get through two layers.
i just want to say 1 thing, you do know that mermaid and sirens are two different races right?, sirens are birdpeople. i know alot of stories get this wrong, thats why im trying to get this knowledge spread out:D
That works only in english where you have two different words. If you look at french or japanese where there is only one word for them (sirène and ningyo), we simply assume that there are different styles of mermaids (greek mermaids (the birds), japanese mermaids, modern mermaids) just like there are different styles of dragons (asian and european).
Dragging humans over the edge with A Harpoon would actually make for prime medium range combat. Effective at underwater combat since its effectivly a spear and then the barb on the harpoon could drag the human over the edge with even a small wound.
You forgot one incredibly, absolutely CRUCIAL thing that merfolk (especially mermaids) usually have as a weapon: their song. For a human, hearing this incredible, almost entrancing symphony of beautiful mermaid voices would lure the average man to his watery grave. Of course the weapons you propose are completely genius, and would certainly spell the doom of sailors at sea, but their song would be their absolute strongest weapon by far. Being able to sit on a rock a kilometre away and sing the sailors to death would be overpowered
What about daggers or Rapiers using underwater? Wile daggers don't give you reach, it doesn't give you much drag. Rapiers thin blade allows cuts and most importantly piercing power of spear just in shorter range. And mer-folk could use hooks to anchor boat or even ship that humans (or other race) would not escape, then it is just a matter of time to cut a hole underwater. Best weapon against mer-folk? Big ass fishing net.
it is true their shockwave is "stronger" because it creates an oscillating blast, however the area of said shockwave is greatly diminished. also, the explosives would need to be detonated by a spark or fire, which is much harder to maintain underwater, so the explosion would likely happen on the surface, decreasing the power and area of the shockwave underwater. programmes or shows where they test or mention this effect, mostly modern explosives are mentioned, and even then they ask questions like "is it better to jump off the boat or stay on it" and jumping off the boat doesnt really put much distance between the subject and the explosion, whereas merefolk can swim and put much larger distances between them and explosives compared to a human. just imagine how fast fish change direction and swim away when frightened...
I think it is feasible for a merfolk society to have developed harpoons. They would not have wasted weapon development time with effective land weapons, they would have been developing water weapons, and material and technique wise a harpoon is feasible for a high fantasy setting
I love this series but you missed the most important point, only mentioning it in a caption. Metal weapons underwater. Does not compute! Even if you're talking about modern steel with stainless variants (which make them less capable weapons), how are you going to forge under water? Forging steel requires heating it to 1700 F. That's simply not happening under water, where post the first few feet the temperature is a consistent "fricking cold". So mer-weapons would need to be made of not-metal. What are the options? Bone? Coral? Rock? Can your flint nap under water? Can you make a scimitar out of whale bone? I'd think a stone knife and a good head of speed would be incredibly effective. The mer-person becomes a pointy projectile himself. A fight would consist of flying past each other at high speed until one fighter punctures the other, then let them bleed out. I'd love to see a follow up video discussing materials for weapons underwater. Grappling hooks as anti-boat weapons make a ton of sense, if you have a viable replacement for steel.
Also, Shark teeth. They could also capture metal weapons from downed humans and use them until they rusted away (with a nice bonus dose of tetanus). They could also use the wood from sunken ships.
I was having the same thought, myself. Materials really are the problem. I posted a longer comment discussing the materials, but I want to address the potential forging process. Even though metal would be crap underwater, I don't think it would be impossible for merfolk to accomplish forging steel if they were really dedicated to it. WHY they would be dedicated to it is beyond me, but I think it would be possible. While merfolk certainly could not forge anything underwater, I think they could do it above water. If the merfolk can breathe above water (or comfortably hold their breath above water for a sufficiently long period), they could find a location with calm water and a solid stone shore that isn't significantly affected by tides. They could then carve out paths for themselves to use and build forges and workstations above the water. That way, they could achieve the necessary temperatures and generate enough force with a hammer to shape the metal. Now, one thing I think merfolk would be more likely to develop instead of steel, that would require this kind of above-water crafting, is glass. They've got plenty of sand available, so if they can achieve the proper temperatures, glass would be readily abundant. It might not be a great material for weapons, but it could be used for ornamentation and other utilities. As for the qualities of weapon materials for merfolk, I think weapons wielded underwater would probably be under a lot less stress due to being used more slowly, so more brittle materials might not be as bad a thing.
The thing is they would be the equivalent of humans trying to manage mining, smithing, carpentry, milling possible even tanning while having their feet bound together, their knees unable to bend too much and only a limited time and area to work on (remember that a lot goes into the infrastructure needed to have all of this functioning). Not to mention how would they even acquire the knowledge to do these things. How in a million years are underwater living creatures going to invent not only controlled production of fire but also working with it for manufacturing. If they imported that knowledge from land people, they why not just make deals and trade for the supplies themselves. It just seems completely nonsensical for merfolk to ever venture out of water.
Hey, I'm with you there. I mean, it's hard to imagine merfolk even encountering fire much in their natural habitat, much less learning how to create and control it. Now, I don't necessarily think merfolk would have to learn milling, since their primary food sources would almost certainly be fish, seaweed, and shellfish. They could develop farming for seaweed and shellfish pretty easily, I imagine. Carpentry wouldn't really be necessary, either, since they wouldn't have much in the way of wood to work with. I imagine that stone knapping and bone carving would be more valuable skills for them. As for tanning... yeah, that's gotta be impossible underwater, and pretty much useless anyway, since leather tends to not like being wet. Underwater mining would be... difficult, but not impossible, I think. One technology I think merfolk would need to invent would be some kind of harness to prevent Newton's Third Law from screwing them over all the time. They'd need to anchor themselves and have something to push back against.
I meant that has technology for smithing and glass work outside of water. I said milling but was thinking of a sawmill and other apparatus to gather large amounts of wood to make charcoal, the tanning was more for the foles or other devices to make strong wind to make high temperature fire.
I like spears for their primary weapon, but I think a more appropriate backup would be a dagger of some kind. Since this is medieval technology, their are going to basically have no metalworking ability and steel will rust away underwater, which you mentioned for the sword but not the spear or the grappling hook. Therefore I think you need to look to earlier tech without metal, or even the new world. Namely bone spears, daggers, maybe even rock, unless this fantasy world has some material to fix these issues.
I love all your Fantasy Rearmed videos! I love writing novels in a medieval setting, and one of my main problems is figuring out how fighting would work
I think that merfolk fighting styles would be similar to cavalry charges. Get up to high speeds with their powerful tails, and come in straight with a powerful charge tearing through the enemy lines. Lances! Lance charges would also be good at piercing boat hulls.
Aleksey Ibragimov similar ones are used by orcas too. They find an ice floe with a seal on it, then charge in a line, using their combined wake to capsize the ice floe or wash the seal off into the water. Apply this to a small boat and add Merfolk with sabres, and you gave a scary scenario.
I think they would use dye to great affect, like octupuses do. Imagine you square off with one, next thing you know puff of black dye and you can't see anything. And as your thrashing about worried about where the merfolk went bam! trident to the back.
Dye that mostly affected the air and surface of water would be even better really in assisting in stretching human observation to the limit. Or simply wait til theres a rainstorm or fog for targets of opportunity.
David Craft Modern scuba divers wear chainmail to protect against shark bites. Rivited chainmail would be highly prized by mermaids for stopping shark bites and would buy it with gold found in sunken ships. Sailors could use it as a bargaining ship for safe passage by leaving one of thier on shore with the chainmail while the rest go on boat.
I'd put my money on crossbows and the like. That way nothing can reach them and they are free to rain death upon whatever land creature they're attacking.
Yes, like people with wings on their back. At least that's the basic flying folk I have in my story. I might also recommend what I've deemed Gorgons in my story: basically merfolk, but snake rather than fish, they also live in a volcanic area.
Same on watching, but what about underwater volcanic activity? I imagine a place like the Mid-Atlantic Ridge would be a major industrial area for merefolk.
humans pulling back after they've been caught by the grappling hook is even less of a problem if they are in a small boat, it could easily capsize by those forces. aside from that merfolk could use spears to ram the boats from below and poke holes inside them. once again only practical with small boats. against bigger ones i guess throwing an ass load of grappling hooks on one side of the ship and either kinda forcibly anchor it in place or catch humans with them. against big ships it's all an issue of numbers. if you have 50 merfolk all with a dozen grappling hooks they can surely capsize very large medieval boats aswell
The best weapon to fight Merfolk would probably be Greek Fire. Early Napalm used by the Byzantines. Water cant put it out, and it spreads, as in it floats ontop of water.
"And it floats on top of the water." That would make it an excellent weapon against sentient dolphins or other aquatic creatures who still have to surface to breathe. Merfolk could just hang out below the surface until it burns out.
Two merman teams with a length of rope between the two. They just swim around you. Once your sufficiently wrapped up they just swim towards the bottom dragging you down with them.
Better idea. TRY TO CAPSIZE THE BOAT. Take a bunch of hooks, grab one side and pull down until the boat fills with enough water to start sinking. Or if it's a larger boat, then just capsize it and run. Or if it's a raft. Cut the ropes keeping the raft together and watch them sink.
David Craft Modern scuba divers wear chainmail to protect against shark bites. Rivited chainmail would be highly prized by mermaids for stopping shark bites and would buy it with gold found in sunken ships. Sailors could use it as a bargaining ship for safe passage by leaving one of thier own at shore with the chainmail while the rest go on boat.
13:44 Well, countering the merfolk like that would be quite simple, really. Just make massive nets and surround your ship's water space with them, at least as far out as throwing range allows. Mermaids wouldn't be able to get past the netting, and then they couldn't fight you head-on. That, or you could build ships so high up that it one couldn't throw anything onto the deck.
To counter that, just for the sake of speculation of course. 1. They carry knives or something to cut with or better yet attack from the front or sides where the nets can't be. They'd drag in the back only right. If stopped they'd maybe be able to get it out but I would think no further then the merfolk could throw. 2. If the ship is that high up I wonder if I would think it would be easier to tip over or seaworthy at all in the first place. I'm no expert on those things. 3. I suppose they could make a metal net but they could still just stay in front of the ship or the sides. Just some thoughts. :)
All right. Let's war-game! I'm the ship. I see the mermaids cutting the rope with knives, so I know that they're at a point where I can shoot them and the water wouldn't have enough stopping power. That, or they're attempting to drag the rope downward for the rope to be cut, in which case I can pull the rope inwards. If the mermaids still cling to the rope, they can get shot down or skewered with poles. In terms of ship design, it would make the ship much more stable to expand the part that makes contact with the water much wider, like a massive sort of raft. That could probably kill two birds with one stone, actually, since the manned part of the craft would be out of range, like with the nets.
Why not? :) I suppose a lot of that depends on how fast they can swim, if it's faster then the ships and all that. I wonder also if they'd be able to pull down or anchor a few or several hooks to rocks and completely wreck that net no matter what it is. I'd also think they could swim under the net if the waters deep enough. Wouldn't the net be moving behind the boat mostly if it were moving and all that? I'm a land locked fellow so I know jack about that to be honest but it seemed like it would just go that way. I would also think if they could pull a merman up then they'd be able to pull the human down but they'd have more numbers in the ocean then humans on a ship. They'd be able to throw upward as well. Though humans would have the advantage with of gravity in that regard. But the ship design part, did they make ships like that for medieval period or pirate times? That one I'm just curious about cause to learn more about ships.
+Trygve Plaustrum Pretty please can I play the war-game. I am pretty sure my merfolk army can sink any ship you come up with, using submarines. We make it super buoyant but weight it down with weights until it is a the same density as sea water. Get it under your ship, and drop the weights. It would be like getting rammed underneath by a ship designed to ram you from underneath.
Submarines, eh? Time to ready the depth charges, lads. Take a standard black powder bomb, put it inside of a larger, watertight capsule, with a removable cap or lid. Can be made out of shitty iron. It will need to be large to contain a lot of air, and therefore oxygen. Additional lead weights art the bottom of the structure will kill its buoyancy and ensure it cannot be tossed back at the boat/ship people. A fuse can be lighted that will ignite after 15-30 seconds, giving you time to put the lid back on and roll it overboard. If the merpeople are familiar with this device, they will either be forced to surface to avoid the explosion, or swim away as fast as possible. All of this is possible with medieval level technology. With early 1800's tech, it would be even simpler. Black powder charge inside of a capsule with a small, 1/16 inch thick, 4 by 4 inch aluminum disc at the bottom. The inside of the structure is designed so that the blackpowder is separated from the disc by metal potassium. The disc will begin to shear at approximately 6 feet in depth, deforming its structure. As it continues to sink, the water will eventually rupture the disc, causing an exothermic reaction with the metal potassium. The potassium will explode, igniting the black powder charge. RIP your submarines, boi. The caps can even be adjusted depending on what depth you want the depth charge to explode at, but it would take a lot more math than I am willing to do at the moment. Aluminum makes for a very good metal for the cap, as it is very weak to shearing forces, aka, being ruptured by water pressure. Only has an average shear strength rating of .65. www.engineersedge.com/sheet_metal_pierce.htm cen.acs.org/articles/93/web/2015/01/Sodium-Potassium-Really-Explode-Water.html
Some archers with warbow(mainly with poison) can probably deal with a unarmored gigant. But against a full armored gigant, probably only siege weapons are viable... Efreeti in other hands, i don't know what humans are suppose to use against "Gaseous Form" and he can easily destroy siege weapons with fire
You forgot to mention just how flipping Strong the workout they would get just moving around with the drag from the water could have the potential to make them.
Yes but I doubt they'd use their human half to do much more than slight steering. All the workout from swimming would be in their fish tail half (which is really more of a porpoise half since it bobs up and down rather than side to side)
He did orcs, which is pretty much the same thing - physically strong, somewhat humanoid creature (it usually still has human hands), often somewhat bigger than humans.
When talking about tridents prominence is definitely a key factor. For a trident to be worth making you have to be hunting animals that you can lift out, in relatively shallow water (you have to be able to dive to the bottom), and you needs boats and other equipment. Which means only people to whom the sea offered many advantages would find it worthwhile. Think isles like New Zealand, Hawaii, Isle of Sky, or Crete. Also the idea of Merfolk “fishing” for humans is absolutely amazing
A lot of types of fuse, like visco fuse, can burn underwater. So I agree with DerFloh, that in this hypothetical world, we'd pretty much be at the mercies of the Merfolk until we came up with underwater fuses and subsequent depth charges to deal with the fishy bastards... Unless the merfolk were mostly worried about something else. Sahuagin, maybe.
I'm just uncertain how well it'd work as a fuse since it was a liquid(ish?) material and we're not entirely sure what it was since the exact formulation was lost with the Byzantines. It might make a fantastic area denial weapon against Merfolk though, since it floated on water. They wouldn't be able to surface without being roasted. Honestly, if we take that into account, it was a very good thing to bring up. It probably would be the best weapon we had against merfolk for several centuries until we figured out proper explosives, although it would be a fickle and dangerous "ally."
+Kyle Harrell Scratch ships, I will go with balloons. I don't care how well build that ship is, the merfolk could just build a big flotation device under water keep at the same density as the water with weights, swim it underneath my ship and cut the weights. I don't exactly like the idea of a ship design to ram ships from below ramming my ship from below.
Daniel Edström I was shocked, like really, really, really, really, really, really, really surprised he didn't make that connection. I expect better from him.
Hey Shad, love the video and the content. You’re killin it. I know you didn’t take Fluid Mechanics in college, but just to let you know, there is one major factor to water pressure-depth under the water. A bullet fired 100 feet under the water will barely move, while a bullet fired into the water from the land can still kill (just like an arrow) (although it may not penetrate as deep as Hollywood projects). I know you like being accurate, so I thought I’d say something. Cheers!
How about we consider what actual divers use for hunting/defense nowadays. You mentioned the harpoon, but what about KNIVES or DAGGERS? While a mild possibility of forming phalanx-like formations for initial charge, an underwater fantasy fight will rapidly devolve into a bloody mess of slime and scales. AFAIK, a knife is standard kit for any diver, whether to cut himself loose of something he got tangled in or fend off any attacks, Then, you really quickly glanced over defensive options. I'd reckon that most options for armor, as you expect it, are impractical, again, due to adding a lot of drag, and messing up with the neutral buoyancy. Yet, if a "technology" is available to fabricate armor of a light-weight organic material (e.g. calcified chitin), certain partial armor pieces - chest and back plates and in particular, VAMBRACES, which could use as a replacement for shields to deflect spear and knife blows.
if the merfolk have spears, and you get underwater with something with less range, you are dead. Remember you are in disadvantage in the water, so you can't be in more disadvantage because of the weapon
they could just make dive bladders to put on under the armour to equalize the buoyancy. Also the armour wouldn't creat all that much drag if it were properly formed.
this is perfect shad. I'm currently planning a story about a war between humans and sea elves ( essentially elves with gills and live underwater.) and this video and the people's comments gave me a ton of ideas. Thanks!
just needs to be a conflict over fishing rights, territorial disputes are won by the other side either agreeing to a restricted border or being pushed to the fringes of the area by violent action & patrols
He did spoke of Triton, though - the son of Poseidon (a.k.a. Neptune in Roman mythology): en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triton_(mythology) The gladiators that were using fishnets and tridents to fight were called retriarii (sing. retriarius).
Streamlined polearm Ripping and grabbing push/pull slashes Grappling hook to ensnare surface-dwellers The Sodegarami is surely the perfect choice! It even has tines similar to those on a trident
so i live in america we have a type of fishing we do called bowfishing arrows actually travel much farther under water than bullets and the heavier the bow the deeper the arrow will go
I was not referring to using the bow under water. I was referring to the surface were the humans were using them against the mere he said the mere would only have to go under a short way my remark was to that if they were going for range under water the best would be something like a spear gun
That doesn't seem like quite so bad of an idea. Pulling off a speargun with medieval tech though would mean you'd have to use twisted rope as your power source for your speargun to keep things slim and light, or compressed air which may have been very hard to capture and direct at that time. No rubber really does complicate lots of speargun tech but I'm thinking it might be possible to an extent. What about making other weapons hydrodynamic? Like atlatls or kylies (kylies being the straight flying father of boomerangs) which are simpler in operation but might need more resources and time to craft if lost?
Even more even worse: simply destroying the bottom of the boat or filling it with holes, allowing it to slowly sink (would take less effort and in a medieval setting the boats wouldn't be metal).
That actually brings up an interesting and super effective tactic for even a small group of Merfolk against a boat full of humans. Have one or two mermaids show up on one side of the boat making kissy faces at the sailors to distract them while one or two Merfolk silently pop up on the opposite side of the boat and quietly hook their grapples to the side of the boat no one is paying any attention to and as soon as the hooks are set, all 4 Merfolk dive down and swim away pulling the ropes and flipping the boats over dumping all the men into the sea.
Chris Poole Modern scuba divers wear chainmail to protect against shark bites. Rivited chainmail would be highly prized by mermaids for stopping shark bites and would buy it with gold found in sunken ships. Sailors could use it as a bargaining ship for safe passage by leaving one of thier on shore with the chainmail while the rest go on boat.
What you missed in my opinion: The important problem when using swords and other weapons you have to swing is not the surface area of the weapon but of your arm. Thats what produces the most drag. So, i would say thrusting weapons would be the primary weapons. Swords that reduce the need for swinging are a pretty good choice of sidearm i guess, as you said. PS: But... i like tridents D:
Great point, I agree any weapon you swing would probably be ineffective. As for tridents, the problem is you're dividing your thrusting energy between 3 points. None of them will pierce quite as deeply as a single point would... which could matter against armor. If Merfolk have decided that remaining speedy is more important than strong armor though, a trident would be more likely to hit.
@@lPhoenixGloryl It would be pretty unlikely that Merfolk would use much in the way of armor though, and it would dramatically reduce their maneuverability to use armor that would have much in the way of coverage.
@@neerGdyahS I'm not so sure. Full western style plate is pretty unlikely, but I think you could get great coverage from something lighter without sacrificing hardly any maneuverability. The flipper might need to be left without armor - not sure. Anyway chainmail or leather should do fine - assuming you can find materials that work. Metalworking is difficult underwater and I'm not sure how leather holds underwater. Might need magic, outside help, or special materials - like shark leather or something. Anyway materials issues aside, my experience is that armor tires you out. It doesn't make you move any slower. Underwater there's no force keeping you up, so armor has to be significantly lighter, but I would think the same would be true otherwise.
@@lPhoenixGloryl I feel like you said "I'm not so sure" then put forward many of the points that drove me to my conclusions. Any armor made would have to be under constant saltwater and not interfere with their shape too much. They also need significant range of movement to stay fully agile underwater since it's a 3d environment and their arms are used to swim. There's only so many obstacles you can pile on before it becomes impractical to achieve something (without magic). The point is that armor isn't going to be nearly the same issue it would be on land.
@@neerGdyahS I don't think it would limit their range of movement. That's the point I feel most qualified to answer, and my intention was to address that specifically... while making assumptions about other factors to allow me to do so. Full plate doesn't limit me on land at all. I'll get tired faster, but I can run as fast, jump as high, and move with the same range. Also if armor cannot cover your tail, and only covers the upper half of your body, I still think it's really valuable. Same even if only lighter armor is available. If any sort of protection is available - it will be sought after. The rest I grant you. It's logistically difficult to make and must be kept light. There's not many materials that work for that, nor are there great ways to work those materials underwater. We'd likely see a new material used for armor or a new mechanism for defense altogether. Maybe some arrangement of shells, or coral, or just regular clothes with jellyfish membranes attached on the exterior. Maybe they naturally evolve their own natural armor. I don't know but it's fun to think about. Personally I write for fantasy though, and I don't find magical manufacturing much of a stretch beyond merfolk already.
What about netting the humans first. Then to sink the boar just cover one end with sand, rock etc to make it unstable. Then with a combo of physical force and/or grappling hook the boat is easily upturned, even it's a sizeable boat.
Srithor Acid would react with molecules in the water and dissipate, and also pollute the environment the merfolk live in to varying degrees depending on what type of acid is being used. Not to mention, they'd have no real way of obtaining or safely containing concentrated acids in their environment.
The thing about the mermaids just having to dive underwater to avoid ranged attacks reminds me of my strategy in water polo (is that what it’s called?) at school. By “strategy”, I of course mean for not getting hit by the ball. When playing sports, that’s all I really care about.
Couldn't they use tridents to kind of parry spears, given that shields wouldn't be as effective as they are in surface? Also, if we are talking about merfolk vs merfolk battles you have to think about three-dimensional combat, so maybe they could do some kind of spherical phalanx or other crazy stuff
Love the series and it always inspires me to consider the same. This time I came up with a few things I want to say in relation to the style of combat of merfolk. When fighting humans I think that the merfolk would fight in four types of units; sabotage units, group weaponry units; skirmishers and finishers. Sabotage units would use a variety of equipment to destroy the undersides of ships; creating breaches, attaching weights, breaking oars and smashing rudders. They can also make markers and points for group weaponry to hit. Group Weaponry units would use extremely large billhooks and battering ram like weapons used by crews of up to a few hundred merfolk that would pull down sails and push and pull large ships into the water and move them into space for sabotage units and attacks. Skirmishers would be the ones with grappling hooks pulling men in and throwing light projectiles onto ships to wreak havoc and stop the humans mounting a defence. Finishers would finish off anyone who falls into the water and board sunk ships. When fighting other Merfolk I think that the combat would be down to speed and getting a few hits and falling back to let them bleed out. Due to this I think merfolk would try to get tridents made if they could afford them because they would lead to more injuries and the disadvantages in actual combat wouldn't be as prevalent against barely armoured opponent under water. I also think that any shields used would be LoTR Elvish style but around the size of the back of a merfolk and with grooves on the top so that it can also be used to help cut water when not in battle.
We were on the same page Shad. Before these videos end, I try to come up with what I think would be the best weapons. I came up with (i don't know the name of them) hand hooks. They employ guerilla tactics, build up speed in the water, leap out, hook a human, preferably in the chest puncturing a lung, pull them out of the boat, and drag them to the bottom of the water and into a watery grave. Lather, rinse, repeat.
A better question would be: how do merfolk even forge their own weapons and armor? The temperatures required for forging metallic weapons and armor would boil the water the mermaids live in and kill them! Plus the boiling would cause bubbles to rise to the surface and burst into steam. Which would make their settlements easy to spot. Plus, how would merfolk maintain their weapons and armor underwater? I mean, seawater is corrosive and merfolk armor and weapons would have to be either corrosion proof, not made of metal at all, or made of a metal that doesn't even exist!
I think I'm having a stroke 0 bone would rot much faster underwater than on land and there are very few animals in the ocean that have scales or bone strong enough to make armor from, mussels could be used to make a makeshift lamellar armor strung together with some kind of seaweed or animal sinew. And practically speaking, armor made of shells is very brittle. Plus armor would hamper the merfolk's main advantage: speed underwater, any armor they wear can't be heavy or bulky as it would make their bodies less hydrodynamic and would exhaust them quickly as it's much more energy intensive to move in water than on land. If merfolk could plausibly jump out of the water, they could use their spears to impale human sailors and dive back down into the water. Plus, merfolk are pretty much bound to the sea, as swimming in freshwater would kill them slowly.
I think I'm having a stroke 0 let's examine what "magic" is in fantasy. It's always depicted as some glowing, sparkling energy...right? Well, the only thing in reality that behaves like this is plasma (the fourth state of matter). How exactly "magical" beings cast plasma from their hands without burning their hands off or accidentally irradiating themselves and their surroundings I don't know. BUT, there is one scientific principle that could explain the majority of the magic seen in fantasy...its the famous E=mc^2 (or the energy-mass equivalence) which states that energy and mass are interchangeable. This means that if you concentrate enough light energy at any point in space you will create matter and that if you break down matter fast enough you would convert all the mass present into a corresponding amount of energy. This principle would explain how magical beings can seemingly materialize swords and items from seemingly nowhere. The craziest part is that this energy to matter conversion would give the magic user two copies of the same weapon or item. One made of matter and one made of antimatter. Now here's the cool part. The possible reason that magical beings only materialize regular matter weapons is that the antimatter they produce is reacted with another particle of matter to generate more energy to create more matter-antimatter particle pairs and this chain reaction would make any item materialize almost instantaneously and with a flash of bright light because when matter and antimatter react they create a lot of light energy (in the form of gamma rays though). The better part is that the same light energy creating matter-antimatter pairs is that the energy released from reacting the matter-antimatter pair would ionize the surrounding air and turn it into a plasma, which is what magic spells look like in most fantasy settings...right? And guess what else: the crazy and insanely powerful magical feats seen in fantasy make sense if they are powered by antimatter-matter reactions because these reactions are 100% efficient and are the most energetic reactions in the entire universe! To put this into perspective: a gram of matter reacting with a gram of regular matter would generate enough energy to power the entirety of the United states' electric grid...for two whole days! This energy-to-matter equivalence could even explain shape-shifting, changing ones size, flight, and rapid healing! As to the other more...strange powers: like premonition, teleportation, becoming intangible (ghostly, walking through walls, etc), and enchantment....that's a topic that still can't be well explained by science yet!
Patrick Milewski Merfolk would use Flint-knapped Stone points and broken pieces of coral for their weapons. As to armor, I would expect a fish much like a Gar, or coelcanth, would provide a sturdy, knife-proof, water-stable leather for making into armor. In fantasy you could add whatever sort of heavy-hide creature you need to give them such an armor. As to magic, you're not far off. Look into the Matrix Reality, and you'll find some interesting stuff.
Something which I find people rarely consider when discussing merfolk, and other underwater creatures, is the pressure they live in. Merfolk are often depicted as living on the ocean floor, while also being able to survive at surface level. However, depending on where in the ocean, the pressure on the ocean floor is enormous, and just like humans can't survive in high pressure, a creature designed to live under high pressure may not able to survive under low pressure. For example, there are species of fish which will die when brought to the surface due to the gasses in their body expanding, particularly when this happens quickly. While this doesn't necessarily mean merfolk would be unable to surface at all, it would certainly be a challenge for them, and it could be lethal depending on the exact physical makeup. Also, the pitchfork is the poorman's trident.
I enjoyed this video but I do have a few disagreements. I think that the best sword for merfolk would be something that focuses on stabbing, so useful for the same reason the spear is. I imagine that short swords would be useful because they are good at stabbing and their short length gives them less drag in the water. Also, there are weapons like rapiers - long and skinny swords which would have low drag and would allow for lethal stabbing actions underwater. If you look up Minoan rapiers, you will see an ancient bronze rapier style sword which would be good for menfolk about it isn't steel. Maybe even something like an estoc would be useful. I think that grappling hooks might have their uses, but they are going to be slow and inaccurate at a range compared to other ranged weapons. So if humans on a ship are fighting merfolk below, the will have their bows or crossbows at the ready and the merfolk would have to expose themselves to these superior projectiles in order to throw the grappling hooks, which humans might be able to avoid because of how relatively slow the hook would travel through the air. Also, unless its a small ship, humans would have a height advantage making it easier for the humans to shoot down on menfolk in the water and harder for the merfolk to hit their human foes. A weapon I think would be extremely valuable to merfolk in a fight against humans on a ship is some kind of hand cranked drill. Drills of various sorts have been around for thousands of years, such as bow drills, and if the merfolk could swim up underneath a wooden ship and drill holes in the hull, they could win without ever actually engaging the humans in direct combat. If the merfolk are engaged in combat with a ship, they might want to employ a shield wall of sorts? I doubt that they would use shields much themselves under water, but against a land foe with arrows, it might be useful. They could interlock square or rectangular shields on top of the water and the shields would float, forming a protective floating platform-wall. Maybe it would be better just to swim down a bit deeper, but it is an interesting image.
I think the best sidearm and defensive weapon by far underwater would be a knife rather than any kind of sword, the floating shieldwall idea I really liked though, they could swim up en masse under cover and drill holes all across & under the ships
For the sword part, I'd imagine a rapier-like weapon could work well too (as long as it's not to elaborate) as rapiers are relatively thin which means they don't produce as much drag. Also since rappers are a sword which emphasizes dexterity and grace over strength, the merfolk could use this to their advantage because water creates a more three dimensional environment, which means that they could possibly be better at the weapon because the more acrobatic moves on land would be far more easy for them.
Dank_Smirk Modern scuba divers wear chainmail to protect against shark bites. Rivited chainmail would be highly prized by mermaids for stopping shark bites and could buy it with gold found in sunken ships. Sailors could use it as a bargaining chip for safe passage by leaving one of thier own at shore with the chainmail while the rest go on boat.
Poison seems like an obvious option for underwater combat... your opponents won't be wearing armour, since they'd sink, and you can't expect to break bones or chop off an arm with water resistance, but use man-o-war/fugu toxin on a stiletto or even just sea urchin spines on a stick and you could probably end a fight pretty quick. Also, if you need a potentially sharp, non-corroding material for small blades and points, try clam or oyster shell. Also also, mancatchers.
As a sword, rapiers would work as well. And considering their size (diameter of blades and the tip pairs for speed in water and great puncturing power) they may even be contenders for being better than spears.
+Brandon Tillery Pole arms maybe, if they absolutely must land, but I'm thinking they'd rather not, and they'd use long range weapons in general, because those wings are bulky and cumbersome in close quarters. But since they can fly they can literally just go over their enemies and drop a bunch of stabby stuff on them, or hot oil or something that explodes since they can get away quickly. It would be carnage XD
If curved weapons are effective underwater then the Egyptian khopesh would be a good secondary along side with the dacian falx as a primary. Or a two handed African sickle sword cuz why not
![CAMPปลิ้น | EP.83[1/2] เปิดแคมป์หลอนต้อนรับ 2 ตัวพ่อแห่งวงการผี!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/2uPuHYHgwiI/mqdefault.jpg)
I think we both know a sword fish would be the best weapon for Merfolk.
Do they catch swordfish with a fishsword?
I am not sure, but that sounds like perfectly logical reasoning to me.
Makes sense actually. Use their telepathy to just send something else to fight their war while they stay home and get pampered.
i actually fought about them using the swordfishes bones to be the primary material for a fucking hel of a rapier
@@adonisjunior3197 Also spears.
*Merfolk Grappling hook combat review*
"It's like fishing, but for humans"
7.8 out of 10, too much water.
Shouldn't be called "Humaning" ?
Since fishing is the activity of catching/hunting a fish, humaning must be the activity for catching/hunting humans, for sport or food.
- Something smells human around here... isn't that strange ? :3
"Hey guys! I got a massive one! It must be 200 Pounds!"
@@Canadian_Zac If they call that massive, clearly they've never visited American coastlines.
@@MushVPeets But that's 200 Pounds while underwater. With the boyancy
Something people overlook is that underwater, streamlined shapes have a *massive* advantage. An optimally designed double-edged sword faces almost 50% less drag than the equivalent single-edged sword. And, if you shaved off some of the edge so the cross-section would look like an airfoil and used the thicker edge to slash, you could reduce the drag even further, by up to 70% compared to a symmetric double-edged sword. Now if you held the sword close to the body, you could slash at any enemies with almost no drag penalty.
You are EXACTLY the comment I was looking for while I was looking for design consideration for my aquatic elves' weaponry. Thank you very much!
You're forgetting the real drag generator: The arm holding the sword. Any swinging motion is massively gimped underwater.
@@chaotixthefox That's why I mentioned holding the sword close to the body. It's definitely important.
I was think of this too a rapier like sword would be great and stiletto daggers as well would be a good one to do as well. But what else can be in a merfolks arsenals that would make sense
hair
Merfolk: We can’t eat fish, it’s cannibalism!
Sharks and Fish: Laughs in blub blub
It’s like saying: “Humans can’t eat sheep! It’s cannibalism!”
Fun Fact: We are more close to a fish with bones than they´re to a shark.
So it isn´t canibalism in almost no way!
Maybe if the fish was a pet they wouldn't eat it, but nobody with a brain would think a merman eating fish is cannibalism.
@Mauricio Osuna Actually when a fish dies, it's own species(or a different one) will eat it's skin. Well this only applies to some fish.
That’s so stupid. By that logic humans can’t eat any type of mammal because it’s ‘cannibalism’, heck depending on how far you take it by that logic humans can’t eat land animals at all because it’s‘cannibalism’.
I feel like humans would counter this by just making their boats have higher walls, maybe with windows and doors.
Which the Merfolk could counter by just hooking the boats to sink them.
The humans could counter this again, by putting roofs on their boats and boom!
Now boats in settings with aggressive Merfolk are just glorified barrel houses. Well done, Merfolks. You just made humans accidentally invent Sub-marines.
Dr. Archaeopteryx Modern scuba divers wear chainmail to protect against shark bites. Rivited chainmail would be highly prized by mermaids for stopping shark bites and would buy it with gold found in sunken ships. Sailors could use it as a bargaining ship for safe passage by leaving one of thier own at shore with the chainmail while the rest go on boat.
I mean, I guess that makes sense. But I feel like mermen would have a similar effect like humans, where nearby predators adapt to avoid them and thus chainmail armor would possibly only be necessary for remote regions, travelers and huntsmermen. This might change if humans are portrayed as "The vengeful race" within the setting, thus making each and every other species less prone to revenge by assumption.
However prepared metal products, in general, would likely be in high demand with the Merfolk anyways, given that they would be pretty much incapable of smelting. Albeit they could maybe work around that by using stone and (drift-)wooden tools, which would, of course, be less effective, but also make them less dependent on the local landlubbers.
Dr. Archaeopteryx Underwater smelting with underwater volcanos WITH bbq grill cages over them.
Or you know, using the spears to punch holes?
francisco guinle de barros Using whales at sea not ones from land.
I know this is 2~3 years late, but some thoughts I had:
I think a weapon used in merpeople-merpeople fights wouldn't be spears or any land weapons.
The reason is because water resistance does a lot more than just making weapons like maces suck more. It makes _all_ movement that isn't 'forwards while showing least surface area' harder to do. A spear won't make an effective underwater weapon because while thrusts would be easy, swinging the spear around won't be. But why would you want to swing a spear underwater? Because underwater, attacks can come from all sides, up and down included. When we humans fight with spears, all we really need to do is thrust, because whoever we're fighting are probably going to in front of us. Especially so in group fights(like a war) where your sides and back are covered by your comrades.
A merpeople can be holding a spear out in front of then and all the other merperson needs to do is swim out of the way. If you've gone swimming a lot, you'll know but keeping your _arm_ aimed at a good swimmer is hard enough with the drag. A entire spear? Unless the merfolk swims really really slow, it's most likely going to be near impossible to keep the point aimed at them if they choose to swim around you.
I think weapons merpeople use would be ones they can use while in motion. Instead of going face to face with someone and trading blows, it'd be easier to just swim at them really fast and try to get them while you swam past.
So something like a short fin-like blade they can attach to their sides or arms to slash at people by swimming past them, or things like a battering ram cone to hold in front of them and kinda smash into people really hard.
This brings up really valid points. Other points would be the impossibility of "merfolk" to work metal underwater. Plus the quickness with which sea water would corrode such weapons, even ones "found," that were dropped by "land dwellers." I still feel that spears would be a valid weapon, but made from material like Narwhal or Swordfish. Small fighting knives made from wood with sharks teeth or obsidian glass. Weapons with serrated edges for long slashings in "Swim by" attacks.
What about a short spear or rapier? Spear about a meter long, its pretty much multidirectional
Instead of metal they could also use sharp corals. Maybe they even cultivate some specifically for that purpose. In some depictions they are more beast-like than human, with just the rough shape being close, so they could have sharp teeth or claws.
And instead of riding horses, they could grab a whales fin. Maybe even make some sort of "saddle" like a harness with a bunch of grips on it.
These fin-like blades would also help them against the most dangerous weapon humans could use against them: weighted nets. They could cut them just by moving the arms. Could come handy to have some blades attached to their fins as well …
But if the opponent is agile enough to just get out of the way, then you could presumably course correct before making your thrust no? You say moving forward is easiest, but a merfolk can change which direction IS forward very quickly. And the more reach you have, the less course correction you need to do to land a hit, because you can strike them sooner, from farther away, and thrust in the direction they're trying to dodge in. In other words, with a spear, they would need to dodge further and sooner for it to work, but the sooner they try to dodge, the easier it is to course correct because at that distance a small change in angle equals a bigger change in destination. It could in effect be something like the underwater equivalent of a cavalry charge with lances. Additionally, you could use spears to defend against any merfolk trying to use "swim by weapons" like your proposed fin blades.
I think ideally, a hydrodynamic spear in addition to those fin blades you mentioned, short swords/daggers and such would be ideal. Maybe even tail blades, to maximize your attack options in battle. That said, crafting and maintaining bladed weapons underwater would be a significant challenge.
Merfolk, may be vegetarians in some fantasies but I think in most the ocean is a fish eat fish world. Also, it is not cannibalism unless the other fish is the same species as the one consuming it. To flip the script for example, no one calls it cannibalism when a falcon takes down a pigeon for dinner even though they are both birds. Onto the main topic, I agree that the spear is the best weapon suited to the merfolk. I envision them using them to keep large predatory fish at bay. Jabbing at each other in close combat (or a surface folk) and swimming with them protruding lance-like for goring attacks. I disagree with the sword choice. Any slashing weapon meant to be wielded in typical fashion for us surface folk would be at a serious disadvantage in a underwater. The most effective strikes would come from piercing weapons thrusting through the water. A possible exception could be slashing weapons designed to be dragged across an opponent while the merfolk swim past, assuming they swim at speeds akin to large fish or dolphins. Drawing from their environment, I imagine modified whale bones lined or tipped with sharks teeth. Being a fantasy realm many more combinations could be conceived.
@Donald Schmidt I was think that a rapier type sword would be a good choice as it operates on the thrusting principle. Narwhal horns? Swordfish bills? I am sure there are a few more options that occur naturally in the ocean as well.
@@michaelold6695 A rapier....I like that notion!
saying that a merfolk eating a trout is cannibalism since they're both fish is like saying that a human eating a cow is cannibalism since they're both mammals.
To be fair, there are many, many fish and marine animals that are herbivores, including manatees, which supposedly inspired the idea of mermaids (and may be the inspiration behind vegetarian merfolk). It’s definitely possible for large mammals to be herbivorous in the ocean, mermaids would just have to be adapted to digest it efficiently.
However, I definitely think merfolk would be omnivores like humans, eating a bit of everything. But it could realistically go either way.
Humans eat mammals.
If Merfolk can tolerate fresh water I would think they would base their economy heavily on rivers but even if not they would still dominate the ocean and extract tribute. I can image a merfolk kingdom at a marine chokepoint being very, very wealthy. Throughout history control over critical waterways like the straight of Mallaca, Straight of Gibralter, Strait of Phosperous, channel strait, straight of Hormuz and so on have created some of the wealthiest empires in history.
If I was a mermaid, I wouldn't bother coming to the surface
Just poke some holes under the ship
Ocean will do the rest
I've read this one in a book.
Sooooo, a hand cranked drill then? Or a claw?(like a claw hammer, but just the claw part)
But the problem is how
You can't use explosives
you die.
The under belly if most likely plated with copper.
You have to focus on it with a drill.
The ship is always moving.
How can you chase a ship while drilling a spot lmao
@Samuel Dimmock then are they strong enough to latch on and drill it?
@Samuel Dimmock its not like they have additional limbs to latch on.
"three hitty pointy stabby stuff" Quote of the century, right there
That my friend is called terminology.
In our language we have a perfect word for this: terminus-technicus
Doctor: "I'm sorry, it's terminal."
Screw Jaws, we need a horror movie about killer merpeople with hooks!
in that pirates movie, didnt the merfolk used seewead as grappling hooks?
I remember watching a horror movie that combined the mermaid and siren myths. Essentially, a mermaid allowed herself to be captured by a team of researchers and started entrancing the men in the group. Once she had control over them, she made them take her to her home where she transformed into a monster and started butchering them to feed to the other mermaids in the water.
name ?
Humans came for their fish and now they're coming for human hearts! This Summer prepare yourself for...MER-MURDER...THE MURMAIDENING...28 MERMAIDS LATER...THE MERMAIDS HAVE EYES...DAWN OF THE MERMAIDS! RATED R!
I don't remember what it was called. I think it was on the SciFi channel.
"Hitty pointy stabby stuff." I'm assuming that's the technical term?
I even got pinned. I was not expecting that, but hey, my thanks to Shad!
Its probably from latin
From what institution did you graduate from,
Mordor or Isengard?
I think that daggers might also work in place of swords for a secondary weapon. They might not be as effective, but mermaids can also move faster than most humanoids underwater, so being able to get close and stab then dart off could be effective.
The use of the trident in fishing isn't because fish move fast - it's because of a thing called refraction. Water bends light, so an image of a fish underwater, as seen from above, it's actually not where it appears to be. The most important thing to consider underwater is actually light.
I'd be more interested in the way merfolk use signals to manoeuvre in formation. I imagine coordination is the most powerful weapon they could use. I believe dolphins use this to kill sharks.
Dolphins often "play" to death sharks (Who don't play), and use their concussive sound waves also. Latter meaning they have ways to signal and attack using sound. Wouldnt be surprised if they couldnt tell who is a dolphin and who is not just from sounds back from their own sounds too.
Tridents usually cause far more bleeding than a spear but not for the reason you are thinking. It has to do with what tridents are actually designed to do, versus what spears are designed to do.)
Tridents have backwards facing barbs which tear and shred flesh when the weapon is yanked out. It's not a straight puncture wound, but a ragged hole. This is because a trident is not designed to come out in the first place. (it's a fishing tool first and foremost. The only reason we think of it as a weapon at all is because roman gladiators were sometimes given tridents so the audience could have a giggle.)
Spears are usually either a straight sharp point or a short blade, which allows them be removed from a target fairly quickly. When you are on a battlefield this is a critical thing. If your weapon gets stuck you have effectively disarmed yourself. The fact that it doesn't severely maim surrounding tissue when it comes out is simply a by-product.
Fish often are small targets and always move so something with a greater chance of hitting is very useful.
water is not the vaccum, sound has no trouble moving underwater.
Light doesn't refract underwater, only when you look through it from the air above.
explosives are far more deadly to the merfolk though. the air bubbles that allow fish and i'm guessing merfolk to control their buoyancy get shredded by shock waves and shock waves are far larger underwater than in air. depth charges would be the only really effective way of fighting (more accurately massacring) merfolk and it would kill all unfortunate humans in the water as well.
xcfencer99 they also wouldn't like electricity very well.
Electricity? Only if they were to touch something conductive.
Otherwise it would just seek the closest opposite charge.
If you fire a taser at them perhaps.
Well now we're dwelling on *non-medieval* weapons, and I believe in the modern era we have PLENTY of different ways to fight -massacre- the merfolks.
The guys during the Middle Ages? Not so much.
Ah, the classic Medieval Dynamite, the bane of the Mer-Folk
@@Hereticalable All thosr sound pretty heavy. Wouldn't the boat sink with them?
But, indeed, those are some pretty creative ways to counter merfolk. Maybe not ideal, there might be a breach they can exploit somewhere, but definitely a solid defense.
Or offense. Seems like boats of this kind would've been made specifically to fight merfolk.
Drills! They can use drills for boats while making an evil laugh.
I thought exactly the same thing, or daggers or any kind of pointy thing to make a hole in a ship.
i was thinking the same thing
and you can make multi layered botom of the ships, so it would take them forewer to drill through it. Also wood which woould separate layers could be of lots of weird shapes in order to push drills always of the center, what would stop drilling every time.
not unless you made them out of steel. ships need to be smooth and they also need to be light.
Drills have a great many downsides too.
I challenge you to get some scuba gear and try to drill through the underneath of a moving dinghy in calm water, let alone near the surface of an ocean.
You will need to keep the drill steady whilst swimming along with an irregularly moving object, possibly fighting currents and somehow turn the handle in a circular motion ALL at the same time. A slight mistake will get your drill lodged in the wood of the ship, and probably damage it. All the while the water will be resisting the motion of your hands, the inner parts of your drill and the actual drillbit all at once for massive drag. It IS possible though. Now you have a hole in the bottom of the ship after an extremely impressive feat of drilling. How large is this hole exactly? Maybe the size of a tap? So let's go with that and say it's like having a tap fully open and is leaking through about 100mL/s. If we're talking small rowing boat, this is easy for one person to bail out, and it would take a full fifteen minutes to add the weight of a single person to the boat if left unattended.
Ah, but what about a bigger boat and many more drills? Well bigger boats have more crew and typically carry maintentance equipment. Due to the difficulties of drilling underwater on a moving and heaving target, it is WAY easier to patch a hole than to make it. Still, even if you put a hundred unattended holes in a viking longship, it would take around 15 minutes to begin to compromise the ship. Thing is, that's 15 minutes of an obvious (and fixable) problem going unattended by about 30 people.
Furthermore, drills are absurdly hard to make underwater, and if made of materials intended for use above water, they would not last long, either in use or just being underwater. Oceans are pretty big too, so it would be quite the task to source them to the intended victim, not to mention a seriously challenging feat of capability to make EACH hole, Never mind 100 of them. And THEN you need to distract the occupants of the ship for long enough to not either fill the holes with resin OR bail out the water.
Since the drilling is a hard task, any environmental circumstances like storms that might hamper the victims is likely to hamper the drillers far more.
Finally bear in mind that all of this still assumes the most favourable scenario for the merfolk as possible: the humans are unaware that merfolk even exist and have never developed any countermeasures, while the merfolk have perfect understanding of the workings of the humans' ships, and have an impressive supply system for extremely specialised equipment for precisely this task.Oh and by the way, out of the water, the humans can't hear you laugh.
In most depictions of mermaids I've scene (at least ones with sufficient world building; a single episode of a cartoon doesn't count) the trident is typically reserved for mermaid royalty, in fact there'd usually just be this one specific trident used by the King, clearly drawing inspiration from Poseidon/Neptune. Regular merfolk usually use spears, or harpoons.
One thing I think you missed it that Mer technology would develop based on what they encounter the most and not just anti-land humanoid. This would be other water races and creatures and based on the fact they have to fight three dimensionally. Spears can be useful in some cases but since the target can dodge in any direction it would be easy to miss alongside a poor recovery time between strikes (thus a trident is still somewhat relevent due to it's wider strike range). Extreme close fighting would likely be the norm. Personally I think a falx (or more likely a smaller version of one) would be better for them than a scimitar (as you mentioned), since the cutting edge is inverted and it would be easier hook and pull at enemies. Last time I played a DnD that went underwater for a significant time, the sahuagin (fish-men) used katars and tiger claw weapons to deadly effect since the water effected them less than standard weapons.
TL;DR Inverted curved blades, hooks (used as a hand weapon) and small hand weapons would be the best, in my opinion.
While any spear-wielder would definitely want a shorter sidearm in case of forward- dodging, I think you forgot that merfolk would be smaller than their worst enemies, on the whole, esp. in a fantasy setting. sea serpents, etc. would idealy be fought from a small distance with spears, not grappling. I'm not sure about sharks; if they are less agile than the mermen, clsoe up may actually be the best distance now that i consider it, but sea serpents and such would be too great a hazard at grappling range with coils, since even if the merfolk don't asphyxiate (depends on their breahtign apparatus) their ribs and such could be crushed. therefore spears would be a good choice, esp. if they utilized a paralyzing poison of some sort.
against smaller, individual targets with presumably great agility and speed, a trident might be better, but spreading out imapct force across 3 different prongs would be less than ideal 'gainst larger armored creatures.
against swarms, armor is the first obvious countermeasure, together with nets (coordinated between multiple mermen?) and a smaller curved blade that they can weild quickly and up close.
About the falx, the forward swept tip could be much harder to keep on course if it went across a current than a back-swept blade, though this difficulty woudl diminish the shorter the blade got. the same problem would occur with any weapon containing a forward- sweep, such as a khopesh.
Darkavatar what's the name of the movie he had in this video??
I love mermaids and i wanna watch it!!
He doesn't say in the description either 😩
@@BothHands1 It's from Pirates of the Caribbean 4, near the beginning-ish of the movie
Renesh2 ty!!! 💕
not if their entire bodies have scales like their arms. That with their extra strength just to survive in the ocean...you know water pressure. i'm sure it wouldnt be an issue for them to use any weapon much better underwater
Did you see those mermaid warriors in the Pacific ocean? They have curved swords......
CURVED. SWORDS.
Leto85 nice.
Let me guess... someone stole your seaweedroll?
Darth Kind
Facebook is disgusting
We have British Petroleum the oceans second greatest fear,i say second becuase the Japanese are the real enemy of the ocean.
Even in myth it says so.
Hammerfell puns uh😫😩😖
Remember mer-folk have another depth to there combat, the have three directions they could move ( up-down, left-right and forwards-backwards) so there idea of combat would be much more different to regular land combat ( forward-backward, left-right). Ergo some bizarre weapon designs would possibly work under the sea, As well as some combat styles unthinkable be us land-people. Spears are a great idea but what of bladed gauntlets. I've always thought of mermaids fighting would look like under water jousting. Like how a shark rockets through the water to attack its prey.
RNGesus 838 i Second this motion
RNGesus 838 especially depending on what they are fighting against. if its sea monsters they would most likely use something that could hook into gills or mouth and rip the flesh. perhaps a assassins creed wrist mounted curved serrated blade?
I thought exactly the same
i thought about daggers because all you can do is stab under water, also sears are less effective because they wouldnt fight in a formation. So i agree.
Had the same thought i think maybe a common tactic would be to swim down under ur opponent and slice his fin so he is imobalized completly. But maybe because of that they would always fight at the ground.
lmao, what fantasy settings have their merfolk considered fish-eating cannibalism?
I'm a vegetarian on land and even I think that's friggen stupid. XD
Yeah, ocean is a deadly fish eat fish world! No time for morality in their food lol
Yeah, it's like saying that humans that eat other mammals are cannibals
Only in Disney.
More so in that merfolk would be far more like sea mammals than fish anyway.
Stupid stuff stupid Disney came up with because they wanted talking fish and all fish is equal because stupidity.
If cats and dogs was smart and could speak it would not stop us from eating pigs and cows.
It's one of those silly things that makes just enough sense that if you dont think about it you might not realize it's ridiculous.
"Hey, bro? Want to go fisherman fishing?" "Yeah, let me get the grappling hook?"
But what about dragons?
@@johnmccrossan9376 spear, this is the way
Or a lasso.
Only if they fish on a small boat ;-)
From a big boat you are doing nothing with a grappling hook.
With a crossbow? Much better
I'd assume part of the reason tridents were used was also to account for refraction. Since you're not entirely certain if the image you're seeing is the actual target itself, having multiple prongs would help account for the inaccuracy.
Mike Young though since mermaids would be adapted for life underwater their eyes would be so as well, making it so light refraction only happens when above water, the opposite of how it would work for us.
Merkfolk still need to stab a landlubber from time to time.
Spears, curved swords, and grappling hooks are great. But I think the most common weapon would be a dagger.
First, mermaids don't have access to fire or forges, and therefore don't have access to metalwork. They have to make do with simple weapons.
Second, large weapons don't work well under water.
Third, a mermaid's best tool in combat is their ability to swim. Up, down, every which way, darting as quick as a fish. It's much harder to do that when holding something even as simple as a spear.
The normal problem with a dagger is that it has poor reach. But underwater, it's speed and small size become incredible advantages. It might not be the _best_ weapon, that still goes to a spear. But it shouldn't be underestimated.
So yeah, they'd use sharp rocks and sharp rocks attached to sticks.
Especially since a dagger would be a very handy all-round tool. Want to eat a shelled creature? Much easier with a knife! Need to pry off some coral or mollusks from the bottom? Knife makes it easy! Someone in a boat passing by without a travelers permit? Knife the boat!
Be great for quick slashes, and an easy finisher during a grapple
For a defence of the curved swords. metals can be obtainted through trade with surface dwellers, or raiding shipwrecks though that's certainly a better argument then the ones i've seen put through previously. Spears would be faster than daggers underwater due to hydrodynamics- there's a reason people use fishing spears. Only time they might be using knives to fight is due to repurposing, like, oyster knifes or some other utility blade.
@@helenanilsson5666 yep
Humans on a raft? They would not even need to engage combat. Attach a hook or more stealthly, to a single side of the boat, then get the heavy stuff and attach it to the other end of the ropes. Instant knock-over, everyone forced to swim in panic!
Another fun method is two merfolks using one rope, jumping in sync above water to catch someone. Mostly a tabletop/movie flashy move, but still potentially effective.
Other common methods are spear/javelin (can be made out of bones?) when jumping, because they don't need to care about if they miss as long as the weapon won't land on the boat, they just need to swim and get the weapon back. But yeah, pointy things are always a good choice indeed.
And of course, the ultimate method to solo full crews, puncturing the boat so it sink. Takes more time and efforts...But again why engage combat if you can stay out of range? So, anything that can help with that, even if not effective in traditional combat, is high value weapon for them.
The worse/best part about merfolk weaponry, is that almost everything they need are part of boat carried equipments. (rope, anchor, fishing trident, knife, ect) Merfolks would not have problems with casting swords or making weapons, they just collect anything they can out of the wreakages they causes. And that's their main advantage against landwalkers. (but also their main disadventage, especially with rust and rotting making every attack a time race to the next)
They would not need proper combat methods unless fighting other sea creatures, including other merfolks. In that case, spear and buckler or small shield to deflect the opponent's spear seems quite good. Trident actually have an advantage over spear, as it can trap weapons like a sword's guard.
I think tridents would be used, but not for catching weapons- it isn't exactly easy to catch a spear thrust- rather, as they're fishing implements, they'd often be used simply because that's what the merfolk have on hand.
The jumping techniques, though certainly flashy, have the very obvious downside that if you miss, you land in the ship, where all the people in it can just stab you to death. Doubt it'd be used due to the high risk.
Absolutely loving this series and I'm thirsty for more! Also if you don't like my water puns you've just got a dry sense of humour.
*puts gun in the mouth* goodbye cruel world BANG this is cancer
Arvos Crusader Suicide isn't a thing to joke about. Cancer, either. Besides, why would you say puns are bad...? I mean, some are terrible *cough* skeleton puns *cough* and that and all, but why did you even say that?? This is confusing.
+Wabbs Wight idk if your suicidal having a good laugh can help for a few mins.
+blackdeath4eternity Not really. Sometimes I feel like I'm worthless but then I notice I'm not?? My mind is a messed up place. But yes, laughing does help for at least a few minutes.
you say not really & then you say something that agrees 100% ? what are you trying to say?
So, unexpectedly helpful!
In my manuscript I have a scene where one of my characters is underwater and he is kind of drowning, but trying to fight off this enemy. The thing about the sword dragging through the water has made me re-think the scene a little. This character isn't really meant to beat the enemy, so I could raise the stakes a little by making him attempt a strike, but he feels the pressure of the water on his weapon, and him thinking that the weapon is going too slow.
Just so you don't feel too sorry for him, he does survive.:)
he was saved by the power of plot
I hope he used the enemies movements to impale itself on the sword
Should have killed him. Boooo
*I'm not so sure whether merfolk wouldn't eat fish. Even if merfolk would biologically be fish rather than a humanoid -> mammal* (and let's not forget that mermaids have breasts and thus maybe breastfeed their children), *them eating fish would be the same thing as us eating other mammals, like beef, pork etc.*
Especially since fish are pretty much the only animals living in the water, save for exceptions like whales and dolphins and the like, they most probably would eat fish unless they like to live of algae and corals alone...
They could eat crabs, squid, lobster, etc. Fish aren't the only fish in the sea, lol. Other than that, though, your point stands. Especially since the entire marine ecosystem is pretty much based on bigger fish eating smaller fish, so merfolk would probably see themselves eating other fish as just another part of the (marine) circle of life.
Pixel Fox Modern scuba divers wear chainmail to protect against shark bites. Rivited chainmail would be highly prized by mermaids for stopping shark bites and could buy it with gold found in sunken ships. Sailors could use it as a bargaining chip for safe passage by leaving one of thier own at shore with the chainmail while the rest go on boat.
@ Mary Dominguez: That would be a really interesting addition to a mermaid story! "Listen, scary mermaid lady, be cool? Okay? Look, I'm going to give you my chain mail, okay? It'll protect you from shark bites or other mermaids or whatever. Look, here it is. Here. Okay? We cool? We can pass?"
Pixel Fox WITH ONE Sailor LEFT AT SHORE WITH THE CHAINMAIL AS A HOSTAGE They cant go on land so they have no choice but to comply. Sailor: You ll get it when we get back to shore, Mermaid: (reluctantly agrees).
Pixel Fox In my lores timeline after Govin-Pre invent cars, mermaids have jobs collecting seaweed for factories to make into leather. Which is leather made from seaweed.
I think the underwater fights of mermen deserve an episode of their own!
Fighting other tribes over territory sounds as reasonable underwater as it is on ground.
Several points come to mind:
Firstly, stealth is paramount. Visibility underwater is reduced, so you could maneuver large numbers behind enemy lines, as long as you don't make sound. Ink, or other visibility reducers become very strategic, covering retreats or hiding ambushes. Fear tactics through sheer noise of an unseen army would also be effective.
Secondly, weapon material is an issue. Metallurgy and forging are only possible underwater if some magic is involved, which changes combat anyway. Otherwise one is left with stones, bones, sunk driftwood and the rare metal weapon sourced from the land-dwellers. Steel and iron will rust rapidly into nothingness, so you are left with bronze or brass tools re-purposed into weapons. Glass or crystal weapons might also have their niche, as they could be almost invisible underwater.
Being underwater also allows for new weapons. Using "Ranged" weapons is not out of the question; Considering that the Macedonian sarissa, a 5 meter spear, was a very effective formation weapon, an even longer spear might be useful underwater. A 15-20 meter spear might be useful in a charge, as the attacker would be obscured until the very end. If it was made of materials with near neutral buoyancy, it would not be unwieldy for charging in a straight line.
Nets and ropes, made of near transparent fibers are also quite handy. Massive nets, dragged by unseen assailants could disrupt and confuse forces, or break retreats. Same applies to smaller nets, used to break a charge and tangle attackers. The effect is more prominent depending on buoyancy, as it remains in the way until manually removed or circumvented.
Why isn't this farther up? This is genius! XD
Metal weapons could be obtained from trade with terrestrial beings.
I’d watch this
One of the rifles the mythbusters tested even had a too high velocity to penetrate the surface tension. The bullet was crushed like on a concrete wall and the parts just sunk.
Lassos would be another possibility along those lines. One problem merfolk would have is an inability to forge metals underwater. Or, they could use a short, barbed spear with a rope affixed to the rear. Score a hit with the barbed end, then pull the human into the water. Basically, a fishhook for apes. :)
Merfolk would probably look for ways to weaponize sea creatures. For example, think of something like a lacrosse stick with the basket filled with sea urchins or poison octopi (like the blue-ringed octopus). The merfolk pop up, lob the creatures into the boat and let the poison spines or bites do their work. If they could team up with/domesticate large and powerful creatures (whales, kraken, sea serpents, whatever), the merfolk could harry the humans with their weapons while the sea creature(s) capsize or ram the boat or ship. Their spears (something like a narwhal tusk?) could also be used to attack the rudder of a ship to pry it apart. If the humans can't steer, they're pretty much toast if they're out at sea...
They could conceivably have slender pure thrusting swords like a rapier, smallsword, or estoc with a minimal guard to reduce water resistance. If they can't find a way to make swords, they could still trade for them, though metal weapons would still be less than ideal on account of rust and corrosion.
Finally; someone else mentioned thrusting swords.
kevin crady i was gonna sugest the same thing thrusting sword with serations inspired by sawfish the serations ( i think more bread knife or kriss blade) would assist push and pull cuts while still aloowing for easy swimmingby being slender and if kept close to the body while swimming instead of what we think of as a hip scabbard would not hinder the merfolk at all
Is octopi the correct plural of octopus? That sounds like folk etymology.
Imagine finding the one jerk who decided to forge and sell all those grapple hooks to the merfolk that are getting your men killed.
@@CaptainWobbs
A nation of pirates allied with the Merfolk for dominian of the waves? Now the costal kingdoms launch a campaign to end their reign of terror??
What about crossbows? I would argue merfolk could simply load them underwater then pop up anywhere they want on the surface within range of the human boat and shoot at them, while easily recovering quarrels that missed.
Also, any chemicals that might start a fire on a ship would be deadly
Also about the hook idea, i would simply find a way to anchor their ship(s) from the hull so as to immobilize them and them wait for them to starve, I doubt they would risk going underwater to fix the problem, so you probably can just leave them there without even watching them
Agree on the crossbow. How much the tactic would be used, would depend on how often merfolk would figth humans on boats. If they rarely did it, they might not have come up with the idea, and dont know of any materials found under water that could be used to make a crossbow. Also alot of stuff found on dryland might not survive for long in salt water.
But if the merfolk would often raid ships it sounds like a logical tactic to use.
Also like the idea of starving people on the boat out, especialy in salt water. If the merfolk wanted to eat the sailors, a few drills could do the trick, with the stearing disabled and the anchored down, time would be on their side.
Could see a scary story about a boat trapped at sea, nasty hungry merfolk around the water, and the boat slowly filling up with water, the crew getting desperate for food and water, and the merfolk slowly thinning them out.
Problem with anchoring is called knifes, they could just simply cut the rope, you have nothing to "pin" on boat that is lower than 2 meters above water
problem with crossbow is similar to bow- bowstring. If it wet it's not efective
problem with chemicals that start fire is that, well, how would a mermaid make them without getting them wet?
You could just make the crossbow string out of seaweed, and start fires using magnesium.
"The idea that merfolk use tridents for battle is actually a misconception, they use spears against wild sea animals and curved swords for more intellegent or humanoid foes. The use tridents as farming tools for fish and coral. Their some of the best fish 'n coral farmers in the industry, their most popular dish is śčolà de tisamò, a cooked chopped up fish wrapped in cooked coral."
How do they cook?
@@chloej1611 Undersea vents, there are plenty of places underwater, especially near undersea volcanoes or other such active places where the water gets super hot from the vents, it wouldn't be that hard to cook something in such a situation if you knew what you were doing.
@@ShinKyuubi I've considered this too … but wouldn't the water be unbearably/unlivably hot? How would they get their food close enough to cook it without cooking themselves in the process?
@@chloej1611 Probably some type of tool, like the long handle things (don't know the name off the top of my head) that they use to put pizza into brick ovens. There's also the fact they may have a magic spell if we're talking fantasy, if they don't have magic, and can breath air above water (which many merfolk seem to do) they can have a home set up with a cooking area that is in an air pocket, like a cave or the like..look at the way things are done in One Piece's arc where the Straw Hats go to the Fishman Island that is under the sea.
I don't think you can cook coral
How would they even produce metal weapons? Forging under water seems to be pretty problematic and as grinding a sword from a massive block of steel would take a lot of time.
The only possible way to get metal weapons is by stealing/looting it from humans.
Flint-knapping. And Coral
Trevor H right, didn't really think of that
And bone. The problem comes from how to shape/carve the weapons. Metal weapons would also have a limited lifespan with all that salt water.
Mirfolk-alloy could be crafted in deap volcanic vents. Also the mirfolk could eat the wildlife off of the vents. Lance a crab and cook it in the vent.
The problem of that though is how close could the Merfolk get to those vents, the water around it would be boiling. I would think the Merfolk would boil alive long before they got close enough to heat the metal.
A year late, I know, but there's a large concept that you didn't address that I think would have significant impact on underwater combat. Much like water has a much higher density and viscosity than open air (and thus a lot more drag which you addressed), *that same density also provides a lot more buoyancy and counteraction to the force of gravity.* This has two major impacts.
The first has been addressed by another poster on the page: the location of your opponent. Depth and location in 3 dimensions becomes a big idea - just ask anybody who has fought in an underwater zone in an MMORPG. That's because the force provided by buoyancy means that not only can the weapon be heavier - but that the opponent themself can move through the medium differently.
The other impact doesn't seem to have been addressed by anyone yet: while the _size, surface area, and swinging/thrusting profile_ of a weapon would need to _shrink,_ the _weight_ could actually *_increase_* with no major issues. I'm not entirely sure how that would look. However, it does mean that the construction of a lot of weapons can change. The weight of a blade would have less downside. Indeed, increased weight might provide a bit of counteraction to the issues with drag. The problem of course is that a lot of weapons that are heavier are also larger - which circles back around to the issue with drag.
As for your idea of a grappling hook, I think you took a little too much time examining something that really wouldn't be as useful as you think. You're a merperson, why bother coming up above water to throw a grappling hook and expose yourself to arrow fire at all? Just come up underneath the boat and drill a hole in it underneath the waterline. Or multiple holes. Game over.
sounds like warring merfolk would attach smoothed and polished rocks to their fists and just hulksmash eachother.
It wouldn't increase maximum weight much, though. Water is only a small fraction as dense as most materials you'd consider making weapons from, and mass would still be a problem. The biggest effect of buoyancy would be extra (or at least different ( trouble with unweighted wooden weapons.
Something else to bear in mind is that buoyancy and weight aren't the same thing; a tree is buoyant, but it has a significant amount of weight behind it. Now, I could be wrong about this, but this should mean that buoyancy could potentially be used as a driving force. I know trees getting dragged under the Mississippi River were incredibly dangerous to riverboats when they popped back up; so I'd imagine Merfolk could turn trees and logs into essentially underwater battering rams.
Imagine you're just sailing across the sea, when suddenly BAM! A tree smashes through the bottom of your ship.
@@ashtongiertz8728 That is certainly a possibility. The big problems would be getting enough energy to move a tree underwater at a tech level where that's a useful weapon, and getting a whole tree when you live in the middle of the ocean. (Or even on the continental shelf-most trees break into little pieces before they reach the ocean.)
You'd probably need to treat the wood so water didn't seep in, though. Or maybe create an air-filled cavity in the middle, somehow. And definitely put a spike on the business end!
Drilling a hole.
How.
You can try and drill it with a hand cranked drill, but its impossible with it moving
You can't use explosives, (see dynamite fishing)
seems to me that the best weapon for merfolk to use against humans would be a hand drill
LOL, or a hammer & chisel, swim under the float'y thing and punch a hole in the bottom.
Hammer is useless under water. The hand drill would be best.
Takako Jin Modern scuba divers wear chainmail to protect against shark bites. Rivited chainmail would be highly prized by mermaids for stopping shark bites and could buy it with gold found in sunken ships. Sailors could use it as a bargaining chip for safe passage by leaving one of thier own at shore with the chainmail while the rest go on boat.
Depending on the abilities of the merfolk they could also use biological weapons. Fling jellyfish like bolos, weaponized lionfish, and urchin caltrops. The humans on the other side could use Greek fire and explosives to defend themselves.
Pufferfish grenades!
Underwater warfare, now we're getting exotic!
Next time: medievil weapons for fighting in space.
I think that tridents would actually be more useful for merfolk than spears when fighting humanids on boats as you have 3 spikes going into the target that enables you to have a strong grasp on the enemy who you can drag out of his boat. Like grapling hooks if they keep cutting the ropes.
Shelds would work if they had small holes to help avoid drag - a sheld made like shutters with big plates might be a way to go if one could be trained to move it in a way to not drag it. It would be also a nightmare to make, maintain and possible to destroy .
I thought also of skeletal shelds made out of rods to block off chopping weapons but considering stabbing is the way to go underwater - wouldn't be as effective unless it's a specyfic weapon to use against sailors who are ill prepared for a merfolk ambush.
Actually - normal shelds might work too. Using the fish tail the merfolk can change directions very fast and if they use pavis-sized shelds [they aren't as heavy underwater] to face the enemy as they come closer they can be fairly well defended as they use spear weapons to attack from around their sheld.
I'm supriced that shad didn't say anything abaut rapiers. I could also see merfolk developing some kind of bigger siege engine to just sink ships without even bothering with individual crew members who can fight back. Maybe a ram propeled by a balista you place under a ship and sink it by poking holes in the underside with it because I assume taiming a whale to do that maybe isn't always possible.
Submarine Titans!
I also belive that merfolk would actually use stone to make most of their weapons as other materials eather rust or are hard to come by. I can see them scavenging some swords and metal off killed sailors, so some their equipment might be just made from already metalic objects reshapen to use underwater.
There is also the detail that when you think of a fight between mythical creatures in a realistic situation - there is the thing that ussually if fights are known to occur, people tend to fight countermeasures. I could see humans - or whatever else is fighting the merfolk - find ways to counter the fighting style seadwellers are forced to utilize.
I can see them developing early harpoon lauchers from crossbows to maybe use an unsuspecting tactic of unexpectingly dump a few people with those underwater to snipe one or two merfolk and pull them back with ropes tied to their waists after a few secounds. I could see this beeing effecive to scare the merfolk off as their tactic is to savely pick away at the enemy, so losses would be rare and more devastating to them.
Metal-reinforced hulls might be developed as an answer to the underwater battering balistas I was talking abaut. If you can make a sheld, then a ship's underside made out of them is still medieval technology.
Merfolk need to submerge to use grappling hooks. And petroleum was known in the middle ages as flammable material, expecially known in the arabic world . I could see sailors pouring buring petroleum on submerging merfolk or throw them at them as bombs.
Some might say I overthink this but in a setting where merfolk raid absolutely evry ship people are going to get creative. And whatever ship is going to succed in it's travels will get ludicrously rich from egzotic material trade.
I also thought of making hulls specially to counter grappling hooks. Making them higher with small windows for petroleum bombs or crossbow shots at submerging merfolk and limit the angles at which grapling hooks might be thrown in.
Meh in quite a few universes merfolk usually have siren bloodlines anyway. They just get a pretty one to sing and any people on the boat are basically dead. Oh they could stuff their ears I suppose. But at that point picking them off would be so much easier since they wouldn't be able to hear anything. That'd be interesting since in some stories (straight) women are immune to siren song. Would make for a nice diegetic explanation why sailors are all women. Don't think I've seen that one yet...
you could still get holes cut in the bottom of you boat.
Alright, but how would they get that hole in though? Drills maybe, though I'm not sure drilling into a moving boat would be easy. Not to mention that it'd probably be a hand crank as power tools in a fantasy universe seems... off. Then there's the problem that sailing ships often had wooden or sometimes lead sheathing on the underwater hull. So you'd effectively be trying to get through two layers.
Thank you, I'll start writing my all-girls pirate ship Light Novel using Shad's tips and aim for an anime adaptation.
i just want to say 1 thing, you do know that mermaid and sirens are two different races right?, sirens are birdpeople. i know alot of stories get this wrong, thats why im trying to get this knowledge spread out:D
That works only in english where you have two different words. If you look at french or japanese where there is only one word for them (sirène and ningyo), we simply assume that there are different styles of mermaids (greek mermaids (the birds), japanese mermaids, modern mermaids) just like there are different styles of dragons (asian and european).
Dragging humans over the edge with A Harpoon would actually make for prime medium range combat. Effective at underwater combat since its effectivly a spear and then the barb on the harpoon could drag the human over the edge with even a small wound.
kai magnus yes
You forgot one incredibly, absolutely CRUCIAL thing that merfolk (especially mermaids) usually have as a weapon: their song. For a human, hearing this incredible, almost entrancing symphony of beautiful mermaid voices would lure the average man to his watery grave. Of course the weapons you propose are completely genius, and would certainly spell the doom of sailors at sea, but their song would be their absolute strongest weapon by far. Being able to sit on a rock a kilometre away and sing the sailors to death would be overpowered
What about daggers or Rapiers using underwater?
Wile daggers don't give you reach, it doesn't give you much drag.
Rapiers thin blade allows cuts and most importantly piercing power of spear just in shorter range.
And mer-folk could use hooks to anchor boat or even ship that humans (or other race) would not escape, then it is just a matter of time to cut a hole underwater.
Best weapon against mer-folk? Big ass fishing net.
no chemicals
BEST WEAPON AGAINST MERFOLKS: POISON THE WATERS!!!!!
I think rapiers would be better than curved blades too. Less offcenter drag when maneuvering it or swimming with it by your side.
Rapiers arent as useful because their handle creats much drag
it is true their shockwave is "stronger" because it creates an oscillating blast, however the area of said shockwave is greatly diminished. also, the explosives would need to be detonated by a spark or fire, which is much harder to maintain underwater, so the explosion would likely happen on the surface, decreasing the power and area of the shockwave underwater. programmes or shows where they test or mention this effect, mostly modern explosives are mentioned, and even then they ask questions like "is it better to jump off the boat or stay on it" and jumping off the boat doesnt really put much distance between the subject and the explosion, whereas merefolk can swim and put much larger distances between them and explosives compared to a human. just imagine how fast fish change direction and swim away when frightened...
I think it is feasible for a merfolk society to have developed harpoons. They would not have wasted weapon development time with effective land weapons, they would have been developing water weapons, and material and technique wise a harpoon is feasible for a high fantasy setting
I love this series but you missed the most important point, only mentioning it in a caption. Metal weapons underwater. Does not compute!
Even if you're talking about modern steel with stainless variants (which make them less capable weapons), how are you going to forge under water? Forging steel requires heating it to 1700 F. That's simply not happening under water, where post the first few feet the temperature is a consistent "fricking cold".
So mer-weapons would need to be made of not-metal. What are the options? Bone? Coral? Rock? Can your flint nap under water? Can you make a scimitar out of whale bone?
I'd think a stone knife and a good head of speed would be incredibly effective. The mer-person becomes a pointy projectile himself. A fight would consist of flying past each other at high speed until one fighter punctures the other, then let them bleed out.
I'd love to see a follow up video discussing materials for weapons underwater. Grappling hooks as anti-boat weapons make a ton of sense, if you have a viable replacement for steel.
Also, Shark teeth. They could also capture metal weapons from downed humans and use them until they rusted away (with a nice bonus dose of tetanus). They could also use the wood from sunken ships.
I was having the same thought, myself. Materials really are the problem. I posted a longer comment discussing the materials, but I want to address the potential forging process. Even though metal would be crap underwater, I don't think it would be impossible for merfolk to accomplish forging steel if they were really dedicated to it. WHY they would be dedicated to it is beyond me, but I think it would be possible.
While merfolk certainly could not forge anything underwater, I think they could do it above water. If the merfolk can breathe above water (or comfortably hold their breath above water for a sufficiently long period), they could find a location with calm water and a solid stone shore that isn't significantly affected by tides. They could then carve out paths for themselves to use and build forges and workstations above the water. That way, they could achieve the necessary temperatures and generate enough force with a hammer to shape the metal.
Now, one thing I think merfolk would be more likely to develop instead of steel, that would require this kind of above-water crafting, is glass. They've got plenty of sand available, so if they can achieve the proper temperatures, glass would be readily abundant. It might not be a great material for weapons, but it could be used for ornamentation and other utilities.
As for the qualities of weapon materials for merfolk, I think weapons wielded underwater would probably be under a lot less stress due to being used more slowly, so more brittle materials might not be as bad a thing.
The thing is they would be the equivalent of humans trying to manage mining, smithing, carpentry, milling possible even tanning while having their feet bound together, their knees unable to bend too much and only a limited time and area to work on (remember that a lot goes into the infrastructure needed to have all of this functioning).
Not to mention how would they even acquire the knowledge to do these things. How in a million years are underwater living creatures going to invent not only controlled production of fire but also working with it for manufacturing.
If they imported that knowledge from land people, they why not just make deals and trade for the supplies themselves.
It just seems completely nonsensical for merfolk to ever venture out of water.
Hey, I'm with you there. I mean, it's hard to imagine merfolk even encountering fire much in their natural habitat, much less learning how to create and control it.
Now, I don't necessarily think merfolk would have to learn milling, since their primary food sources would almost certainly be fish, seaweed, and shellfish. They could develop farming for seaweed and shellfish pretty easily, I imagine. Carpentry wouldn't really be necessary, either, since they wouldn't have much in the way of wood to work with. I imagine that stone knapping and bone carving would be more valuable skills for them. As for tanning... yeah, that's gotta be impossible underwater, and pretty much useless anyway, since leather tends to not like being wet. Underwater mining would be... difficult, but not impossible, I think.
One technology I think merfolk would need to invent would be some kind of harness to prevent Newton's Third Law from screwing them over all the time. They'd need to anchor themselves and have something to push back against.
I meant that has technology for smithing and glass work outside of water. I said milling but was thinking of a sawmill and other apparatus to gather large amounts of wood to make charcoal, the tanning was more for the foles or other devices to make strong wind to make high temperature fire.
Maybe Rapiers could cut through the water more effectively with a more aerodynamic guard
I like spears for their primary weapon, but I think a more appropriate backup would be a dagger of some kind. Since this is medieval technology, their are going to basically have no metalworking ability and steel will rust away underwater, which you mentioned for the sword but not the spear or the grappling hook. Therefore I think you need to look to earlier tech without metal, or even the new world. Namely bone spears, daggers, maybe even rock, unless this fantasy world has some material to fix these issues.
WITH MY MERFOLK ARMY, I WILL CARVE OUT...
PART OF YOUR WOOOOOORLD!
Trygve Plaustrum 70% to be specific
"No sink shall be safe from… world domination!"
Ohhh, that sinking feeling....
Blow the damns! Release the rivers!
The grappling hook would be reverse fishing, humaning!
I love all your Fantasy Rearmed videos! I love writing novels in a medieval setting, and one of my main problems is figuring out how fighting would work
We have it, a species that would be able to wield scythes for war! Hook and pull, just hook and pull.
incredible
I think that merfolk fighting styles would be similar to cavalry charges. Get up to high speeds with their powerful tails, and come in straight with a powerful charge tearing through the enemy lines. Lances!
Lance charges would also be good at piercing boat hulls.
This tactics is actually used by sword-fish =)
Good point
That i was thinking about too, a lance with a hidrodinamic hand huard
Aleksey Ibragimov similar ones are used by orcas too.
They find an ice floe with a seal on it, then charge in a line, using their combined wake to capsize the ice floe or wash the seal off into the water. Apply this to a small boat and add Merfolk with sabres, and you gave a scary scenario.
HansLemurson merfolks just pick up a swordfish and charge
I think they would use dye to great affect, like octupuses do. Imagine you square off with one, next thing you know puff of black dye and you can't see anything. And as your thrashing about worried about where the merfolk went bam! trident to the back.
Dye that mostly affected the air and surface of water would be even better really in assisting in stretching human observation to the limit.
Or simply wait til theres a rainstorm or fog for targets of opportunity.
David Craft Modern scuba divers wear chainmail to protect against shark bites. Rivited chainmail would be highly prized by mermaids for stopping shark bites and would buy it with gold found in sunken ships. Sailors could use it as a bargaining ship for safe passage by leaving one of thier on shore with the chainmail while the rest go on boat.
how would they hit you with a trident if there is blinding dye in the way? :P
No one talks about the fact that merfolk already have a highly lethal weapon: Their voices
@Commodore X Whats wrong with smelling of elderberries?
Like a sonar? A collective sonar? That's OP as fuck. If a blue whale's "voice" can kill a human if standing too close, it's totally realistic.
Not universally, that’s a trait in many settings but it’s not integral.
@@andyrrafaelthebeastemperor8709 I think they mean the ability to charm and hypnotize humans by singing
Fus Roh Da
What would winged warriors use?
I'd put my money on crossbows and the like. That way nothing can reach them and they are free to rain death upon whatever land creature they're attacking.
Yes, like people with wings on their back. At least that's the basic flying folk I have in my story. I might also recommend what I've deemed Gorgons in my story: basically merfolk, but snake rather than fish, they also live in a volcanic area.
Big bloody rocks
Flight.
big pots of hot water/oil
How would they forge metal weapons??? please explain, anyone.
Same on watching, but what about underwater volcanic activity? I imagine a place like the Mid-Atlantic Ridge would be a major industrial area for merefolk.
If you want to have boiled mermaids?
Hahaha fair point. They would need protective equipment, and eventually facilities to channel the heat to the right places.
Abradolf Lincler different materials or stolen items. I think it would be more like shaped coral or something like the bones of large sea creatures
Abradolf Lincler What abou bone? And they can go in shallow water. And why not human slaves?
humans pulling back after they've been caught by the grappling hook is even less of a problem if they are in a small boat, it could easily capsize by those forces.
aside from that merfolk could use spears to ram the boats from below and poke holes inside them. once again only practical with small boats.
against bigger ones i guess throwing an ass load of grappling hooks on one side of the ship and either kinda forcibly anchor it in place or catch humans with them. against big ships it's all an issue of numbers. if you have 50 merfolk all with a dozen grappling hooks they can surely capsize very large medieval boats aswell
They could also just let go of the rope whenever the humans would try to pull them out
"Hitty, pointy, stabby stuff."
I love how you explain weapons so well. :p
The best weapon to fight Merfolk would probably be Greek Fire. Early Napalm used by the Byzantines. Water cant put it out, and it spreads, as in it floats ontop of water.
Black powder would also be effective if you found a way to use it in the water. The shock wave would be devastating over a large area.
also a spear like in spear fishing
Clay
Good area of denial weapon. Assuming Merfolk can't go through flames, then a layer of Greek Fire would prevent them from surfacing
"And it floats on top of the water."
That would make it an excellent weapon against sentient dolphins or other aquatic creatures who still have to surface to breathe. Merfolk could just hang out below the surface until it burns out.
Clay better hope they don't have a tool to fling surface water up at you.
What about a Rapier? Like a fencing sword, works pretty well for swordfish *giggles*
Torpedoes seem to work for dolphins!
Two merman teams with a length of rope between the two. They just swim around you. Once your sufficiently wrapped up they just swim towards the bottom dragging you down with them.
Better idea. TRY TO CAPSIZE THE BOAT. Take a bunch of hooks, grab one side and pull down until the boat fills with enough water to start sinking. Or if it's a larger boat, then just capsize it and run. Or if it's a raft. Cut the ropes keeping the raft together and watch them sink.
David Craft Modern scuba divers wear chainmail to protect against shark bites. Rivited chainmail would be highly prized by mermaids for stopping shark bites and would buy it with gold found in sunken ships. Sailors could use it as a bargaining ship for safe passage by leaving one of thier own at shore with the chainmail while the rest go on boat.
"eating fish is cannibalism for merepeople" oh God were all cannibals I mean we eat other mammals!!!
*eating pork* wat ? I'm a cannibal !?
Good thing I'm vegan then
@@theravenmonarch9441 Do you know how close you are genetically with that Banana ?
@@nonoctoro4933 Less close than with a Pig
@@theravenmonarch9441 More than 60% ...
13:44 Well, countering the merfolk like that would be quite simple, really. Just make massive nets and surround your ship's water space with them, at least as far out as throwing range allows. Mermaids wouldn't be able to get past the netting, and then they couldn't fight you head-on. That, or you could build ships so high up that it one couldn't throw anything onto the deck.
To counter that, just for the sake of speculation of course. 1. They carry knives or something to cut with or better yet attack from the front or sides where the nets can't be. They'd drag in the back only right. If stopped they'd maybe be able to get it out but I would think no further then the merfolk could throw. 2. If the ship is that high up I wonder if I would think it would be easier to tip over or seaworthy at all in the first place. I'm no expert on those things. 3. I suppose they could make a metal net but they could still just stay in front of the ship or the sides. Just some thoughts. :)
All right. Let's war-game!
I'm the ship. I see the mermaids cutting the rope with knives, so I know that they're at a point where I can shoot them and the water wouldn't have enough stopping power. That, or they're attempting to drag the rope downward for the rope to be cut, in which case I can pull the rope inwards. If the mermaids still cling to the rope, they can get shot down or skewered with poles.
In terms of ship design, it would make the ship much more stable to expand the part that makes contact with the water much wider, like a massive sort of raft. That could probably kill two birds with one stone, actually, since the manned part of the craft would be out of range, like with the nets.
Why not? :) I suppose a lot of that depends on how fast they can swim, if it's faster then the ships and all that. I wonder also if they'd be able to pull down or anchor a few or several hooks to rocks and completely wreck that net no matter what it is. I'd also think they could swim under the net if the waters deep enough. Wouldn't the net be moving behind the boat mostly if it were moving and all that?
I'm a land locked fellow so I know jack about that to be honest but it seemed like it would just go that way. I would also think if they could pull a merman up then they'd be able to pull the human down but they'd have more numbers in the ocean then humans on a ship. They'd be able to throw upward as well. Though humans would have the advantage with of gravity in that regard. But the ship design part, did they make ships like that for medieval period or pirate times? That one I'm just curious about cause to learn more about ships.
+Trygve Plaustrum
Pretty please can I play the war-game. I am pretty sure my merfolk army can sink any ship you come up with, using submarines. We make it super buoyant but weight it down with weights until it is a the same density as sea water. Get it under your ship, and drop the weights. It would be like getting rammed underneath by a ship designed to ram you from underneath.
Submarines, eh? Time to ready the depth charges, lads. Take a standard black powder bomb, put it inside of a larger, watertight capsule, with a removable cap or lid. Can be made out of shitty iron. It will need to be large to contain a lot of air, and therefore oxygen. Additional lead weights art the bottom of the structure will kill its buoyancy and ensure it cannot be tossed back at the boat/ship people. A fuse can be lighted that will ignite after 15-30 seconds, giving you time to put the lid back on and roll it overboard. If the merpeople are familiar with this device, they will either be forced to surface to avoid the explosion, or swim away as fast as possible. All of this is possible with medieval level technology.
With early 1800's tech, it would be even simpler. Black powder charge inside of a capsule with a small, 1/16 inch thick, 4 by 4 inch aluminum disc at the bottom. The inside of the structure is designed so that the blackpowder is separated from the disc by metal potassium. The disc will begin to shear at approximately 6 feet in depth, deforming its structure. As it continues to sink, the water will eventually rupture the disc, causing an exothermic reaction with the metal potassium. The potassium will explode, igniting the black powder charge. RIP your submarines, boi.
The caps can even be adjusted depending on what depth you want the depth charge to explode at, but it would take a lot more math than I am willing to do at the moment. Aluminum makes for a very good metal for the cap, as it is very weak to shearing forces, aka, being ruptured by water pressure. Only has an average shear strength rating of .65.
www.engineersedge.com/sheet_metal_pierce.htm
cen.acs.org/articles/93/web/2015/01/Sodium-Potassium-Really-Explode-Water.html
Why not a serie about best weapon to use AGAINST fantasy races? Like Efreeti?
Victor Mf he did one like that for dragons
that I think would be a fun video. what to use to kill a giant.....RUN AWAY
Some archers with warbow(mainly with poison) can probably deal with a unarmored gigant. But against a full armored gigant, probably only siege weapons are viable... Efreeti in other hands, i don't know what humans are suppose to use against "Gaseous Form" and he can easily destroy siege weapons with fire
It's the same for all of them though... POISON!!!
if its a gaseous form they might be able to use chemistry or something, maybe burning a specific material
they could also sabotage the boat, just make a hole in it's floor, and watch it sink. There would be no way to stop them.
The moral of the story is “don’t piss off merfolk.” 😂😂
I am defiantly using this in D&D
Same idea here
*definitely
Patricia Schonrock I PROCLAIM DEFIANTLY I SHALL USE THIS IN MY DnD CAMPAIGN! Llol
You forgot to mention just how flipping Strong the workout they would get just moving around with the drag from the water could have the potential to make them.
Would likely have very impressive muscles.
ONE PUNCH!!!!!
Arf Bark I don't think they could match Saitama
Yes but I doubt they'd use their human half to do much more than slight steering. All the workout from swimming would be in their fish tail half (which is really more of a porpoise half since it bobs up and down rather than side to side)
A good point, Kassidar.
Do minotaurs next.
Also, if I may suggest, you should do a fantasy VS series, and compare different fantasy races, and which one would win in a fight.
He did orcs, which is pretty much the same thing - physically strong, somewhat humanoid creature (it usually still has human hands), often somewhat bigger than humans.
When talking about tridents prominence is definitely a key factor. For a trident to be worth making you have to be hunting animals that you can lift out, in relatively shallow water (you have to be able to dive to the bottom), and you needs boats and other equipment. Which means only people to whom the sea offered many advantages would find it worthwhile. Think isles like New Zealand, Hawaii, Isle of Sky, or Crete. Also the idea of Merfolk “fishing” for humans is absolutely amazing
Counter to merfolk? Dynamite fishing!
DerFloh111 I presume you'd have to use Greek fire or something to light the Dynamite?
A lot of types of fuse, like visco fuse, can burn underwater. So I agree with DerFloh, that in this hypothetical world, we'd pretty much be at the mercies of the Merfolk until we came up with underwater fuses and subsequent depth charges to deal with the fishy bastards... Unless the merfolk were mostly worried about something else. Sahuagin, maybe.
Ah, okay. I just knew Greek fire burnt underwater so I used it as an example.
I'm just uncertain how well it'd work as a fuse since it was a liquid(ish?) material and we're not entirely sure what it was since the exact formulation was lost with the Byzantines. It might make a fantastic area denial weapon against Merfolk though, since it floated on water. They wouldn't be able to surface without being roasted. Honestly, if we take that into account, it was a very good thing to bring up. It probably would be the best weapon we had against merfolk for several centuries until we figured out proper explosives, although it would be a fickle and dangerous "ally."
Or nets
We're gonna need a bigger boat.
Scratch boats, I'm getting a ship.
+Kyle Harrell
Scratch ships, I will go with balloons. I don't care how well build that ship is, the merfolk could just build a big flotation device under water keep at the same density as the water with weights, swim it underneath my ship and cut the weights.
I don't exactly like the idea of a ship design to ram ships from below ramming my ship from below.
Fuck all of you, imma build a space ship. I don't belong on this... mer-planet.
Dashiell Gillingham prepare exterminatos
So long and thanks for all the fish?
I thought the trident for mermaids and gladiators was originally inspired by Poseidon.
Daniel Edström I was shocked, like really, really, really, really, really, really, really surprised he didn't make that connection.
I expect better from him.
Daniel Edström Trident was the Roman's Poseidon .
Ragad Ragad I might be misunderstanding you, but I thought Neptune was Rome's Posieden.
David Craft Yes you're right I was mistaken. The Trident was Neptune/Poseidon's weapon while *Triton* was his son. Oops
Ragad Ragad seems easy to mix up their names, still you know your stuff. I never even heard of Triton.
Hey Shad, love the video and the content. You’re killin it. I know you didn’t take Fluid Mechanics in college, but just to let you know, there is one major factor to water pressure-depth under the water. A bullet fired 100 feet under the water will barely move, while a bullet fired into the water from the land can still kill (just like an arrow) (although it may not penetrate as deep as Hollywood projects). I know you like being accurate, so I thought I’d say something. Cheers!
How about we consider what actual divers use for hunting/defense nowadays. You mentioned the harpoon, but what about KNIVES or DAGGERS? While a mild possibility of forming phalanx-like formations for initial charge, an underwater fantasy fight will rapidly devolve into a bloody mess of slime and scales. AFAIK, a knife is standard kit for any diver, whether to cut himself loose of something he got tangled in or fend off any attacks,
Then, you really quickly glanced over defensive options. I'd reckon that most options for armor, as you expect it, are impractical, again, due to adding a lot of drag, and messing up with the neutral buoyancy. Yet, if a "technology" is available to fabricate armor of a light-weight organic material (e.g. calcified chitin), certain partial armor pieces - chest and back plates and in particular, VAMBRACES, which could use as a replacement for shields to deflect spear and knife blows.
THANK YOU
if the merfolk have spears, and you get underwater with something with less range, you are dead. Remember you are in disadvantage in the water, so you can't be in more disadvantage because of the weapon
can a merfolk hold it breath if not chemicals or acid
they are talking about weapons for mermaids, not to fight against them
they could just make dive bladders to put on under the armour to equalize the buoyancy. Also the armour wouldn't creat all that much drag if it were properly formed.
this is perfect shad. I'm currently planning a story about a war between humans and sea elves ( essentially elves with gills and live underwater.) and this video and the people's comments gave me a ton of ideas. Thanks!
Little bit curious about that: how can either side actually win such a war?
just needs to be a conflict over fishing rights, territorial disputes are won by the other side either agreeing to a restricted border or being pushed to the fringes of the area by violent action & patrols
+Conto if fish is a nessesary food source for people for some reason such as poor soil, the merfolk could starve the humans out.
I think the association with merfolk and tridents comes from a reference to Poseidon
And the association with poseidon comes from the same source: fishing.
Annnnnnd, you never wondered why POSEIDON was associated with a trident in the first place? Because fishing.
infernalone666 I'm really, really, really, did I mention really, surprised Shad didn't make the connection.
He did spoke of Triton, though - the son of Poseidon (a.k.a. Neptune in Roman mythology): en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triton_(mythology)
The gladiators that were using fishnets and tridents to fight were called retriarii (sing. retriarius).
berlineczka who did, Shad? I must have missed it.
Streamlined polearm
Ripping and grabbing push/pull slashes
Grappling hook to ensnare surface-dwellers
The Sodegarami is surely the perfect choice! It even has tines similar to those on a trident
so i live in america we have a type of fishing we do called bowfishing arrows actually travel much farther under water than bullets and the heavier the bow the deeper the arrow will go
I was not referring to using the bow under water. I was referring to the surface were the humans were using them against the mere he said the mere would only have to go under a short way my remark was to that if they were going for range under water the best would be something like a spear gun
the mermaids are still very fast, and would make for a difficult target, not to mention a huge amount of cover under the boat
they would more likely sabotage boats from below I think anyway rather than attack, then come back after the ships start to sink
Kepler_Drew, fish are fast too, and much smaller at that. If humans can hit fish with a bow, they could hit mermaids.
That doesn't seem like quite so bad of an idea. Pulling off a speargun with medieval tech though would mean you'd have to use twisted rope as your power source for your speargun to keep things slim and light, or compressed air which may have been very hard to capture and direct at that time. No rubber really does complicate lots of speargun tech but I'm thinking it might be possible to an extent.
What about making other weapons hydrodynamic? Like atlatls or kylies (kylies being the straight flying father of boomerangs) which are simpler in operation but might need more resources and time to craft if lost?
even worse. a team of merfolk using hooks to capsize a whole boat
Well then the logical solution to kill the merfolks is to pollute the water
Or some thing just as good drill and stab holes in the bottom of the boat.
But after the water is polluted then there is no more fish and then nobody can't go fishing.
I kinda prefer not having to deal with merfolks than having salmon on my dinner table
Even more even worse: simply destroying the bottom of the boat or filling it with holes, allowing it to slowly sink (would take less effort and in a medieval setting the boats wouldn't be metal).
That actually brings up an interesting and super effective tactic for even a small group of Merfolk against a boat full of humans. Have one or two mermaids show up on one side of the boat making kissy faces at the sailors to distract them while one or two Merfolk silently pop up on the opposite side of the boat and quietly hook their grapples to the side of the boat no one is paying any attention to and as soon as the hooks are set, all 4 Merfolk dive down and swim away pulling the ropes and flipping the boats over dumping all the men into the sea.
Chris Poole Modern scuba divers wear chainmail to protect against shark bites. Rivited chainmail would be highly prized by mermaids for stopping shark bites and would buy it with gold found in sunken ships. Sailors could use it as a bargaining ship for safe passage by leaving one of thier on shore with the chainmail while the rest go on boat.
What you missed in my opinion: The important problem when using swords and other weapons you have to swing is not the surface area of the weapon but of your arm. Thats what produces the most drag. So, i would say thrusting weapons would be the primary weapons. Swords that reduce the need for swinging are a pretty good choice of sidearm i guess, as you said.
PS: But... i like tridents D:
Great point, I agree any weapon you swing would probably be ineffective.
As for tridents, the problem is you're dividing your thrusting energy between 3 points. None of them will pierce quite as deeply as a single point would... which could matter against armor. If Merfolk have decided that remaining speedy is more important than strong armor though, a trident would be more likely to hit.
@@lPhoenixGloryl It would be pretty unlikely that Merfolk would use much in the way of armor though, and it would dramatically reduce their maneuverability to use armor that would have much in the way of coverage.
@@neerGdyahS I'm not so sure. Full western style plate is pretty unlikely, but I think you could get great coverage from something lighter without sacrificing hardly any maneuverability. The flipper might need to be left without armor - not sure.
Anyway chainmail or leather should do fine - assuming you can find materials that work. Metalworking is difficult underwater and I'm not sure how leather holds underwater. Might need magic, outside help, or special materials - like shark leather or something.
Anyway materials issues aside, my experience is that armor tires you out. It doesn't make you move any slower. Underwater there's no force keeping you up, so armor has to be significantly lighter, but I would think the same would be true otherwise.
@@lPhoenixGloryl I feel like you said "I'm not so sure" then put forward many of the points that drove me to my conclusions. Any armor made would have to be under constant saltwater and not interfere with their shape too much. They also need significant range of movement to stay fully agile underwater since it's a 3d environment and their arms are used to swim.
There's only so many obstacles you can pile on before it becomes impractical to achieve something (without magic). The point is that armor isn't going to be nearly the same issue it would be on land.
@@neerGdyahS I don't think it would limit their range of movement. That's the point I feel most qualified to answer, and my intention was to address that specifically... while making assumptions about other factors to allow me to do so. Full plate doesn't limit me on land at all. I'll get tired faster, but I can run as fast, jump as high, and move with the same range.
Also if armor cannot cover your tail, and only covers the upper half of your body, I still think it's really valuable. Same even if only lighter armor is available. If any sort of protection is available - it will be sought after.
The rest I grant you. It's logistically difficult to make and must be kept light. There's not many materials that work for that, nor are there great ways to work those materials underwater.
We'd likely see a new material used for armor or a new mechanism for defense altogether. Maybe some arrangement of shells, or coral, or just regular clothes with jellyfish membranes attached on the exterior. Maybe they naturally evolve their own natural armor. I don't know but it's fun to think about.
Personally I write for fantasy though, and I don't find magical manufacturing much of a stretch beyond merfolk already.
Obviusly, an hydrodinamic pommel!
laughed so hard, i woke up my neighbours
Fantastic!
With venom!
Neferkariusz31
No, pommels are so overpowered by themselves, the don't need anything else.
Humans have explosives!
To sink the ship without axes, you basically need drill. That's simple enough, and quite effective in making holes in wood)
A hammer and chisel might be able to get between the boards, allowing you to pry one out.
Awl and hammer/rock/etc wouldn't be bad for putting in a bunch of weakening holes.
What about netting the humans first. Then to sink the boar just cover one end with sand, rock etc to make it unstable. Then with a combo of physical force and/or grappling hook the boat is easily upturned, even it's a sizeable boat.
boat. damn spelling.
Srithor
Acid would react with molecules in the water and dissipate, and also pollute the environment the merfolk live in to varying degrees depending on what type of acid is being used. Not to mention, they'd have no real way of obtaining or safely containing concentrated acids in their environment.
The thing about the mermaids just having to dive underwater to avoid ranged attacks reminds me of my strategy in water polo (is that what it’s called?) at school.
By “strategy”, I of course mean for not getting hit by the ball. When playing sports, that’s all I really care about.
Man, imagine if the Merfolk can't breathe above water.
Humans vs Merfolk would just be the most aggressive fishing session ever.
Couldn't they use tridents to kind of parry spears, given that shields wouldn't be as effective as they are in surface? Also, if we are talking about merfolk vs merfolk battles you have to think about three-dimensional combat, so maybe they could do some kind of spherical phalanx or other crazy stuff
Love the series and it always inspires me to consider the same.
This time I came up with a few things I want to say in relation to the style of combat of merfolk.
When fighting humans I think that the merfolk would fight in four types of units; sabotage units, group weaponry units; skirmishers and finishers.
Sabotage units would use a variety of equipment to destroy the undersides of ships; creating breaches, attaching weights, breaking oars and smashing rudders. They can also make markers and points for group weaponry to hit.
Group Weaponry units would use extremely large billhooks and battering ram like weapons used by crews of up to a few hundred merfolk that would pull down sails and push and pull large ships into the water and move them into space for sabotage units and attacks.
Skirmishers would be the ones with grappling hooks pulling men in and throwing light projectiles onto ships to wreak havoc and stop the humans mounting a defence.
Finishers would finish off anyone who falls into the water and board sunk ships.
When fighting other Merfolk I think that the combat would be down to speed and getting a few hits and falling back to let them bleed out. Due to this I think merfolk would try to get tridents made if they could afford them because they would lead to more injuries and the disadvantages in actual combat wouldn't be as prevalent against barely armoured opponent under water.
I also think that any shields used would be LoTR Elvish style but around the size of the back of a merfolk and with grooves on the top so that it can also be used to help cut water when not in battle.
awesome video shad! pure quality! can't wait for the next one!
We were on the same page Shad. Before these videos end, I try to come up with what I think would be the best weapons. I came up with (i don't know the name of them) hand hooks. They employ guerilla tactics, build up speed in the water, leap out, hook a human, preferably in the chest puncturing a lung, pull them out of the boat, and drag them to the bottom of the water and into a watery grave. Lather, rinse, repeat.
A better question would be: how do merfolk even forge their own weapons and armor? The temperatures required for forging metallic weapons and armor would boil the water the mermaids live in and kill them! Plus the boiling would cause bubbles to rise to the surface and burst into steam. Which would make their settlements easy to spot. Plus, how would merfolk maintain their weapons and armor underwater? I mean, seawater is corrosive and merfolk armor and weapons would have to be either corrosion proof, not made of metal at all, or made of a metal that doesn't even exist!
Patrick Milewski I would assume that they would be made out of bone,coral etc.... rather than metals
I think I'm having a stroke 0
bone would rot much faster underwater than on land and there are very few animals in the ocean that have scales or bone strong enough to make armor from, mussels could be used to make a makeshift lamellar armor strung together with some kind of seaweed or animal sinew. And practically speaking, armor made of shells is very brittle. Plus armor would hamper the merfolk's main advantage: speed underwater, any armor they wear can't be heavy or bulky as it would make their bodies less hydrodynamic and would exhaust them quickly as it's much more energy intensive to move in water than on land. If merfolk could plausibly jump out of the water, they could use their spears to impale human sailors and dive back down into the water. Plus, merfolk are pretty much bound to the sea, as swimming in freshwater would kill them slowly.
Patrick Milewski good point, but then again "magic bitch" it explains everything that dissent make sense in fantasy
I think I'm having a stroke 0 let's examine what "magic" is in fantasy. It's always depicted as some glowing, sparkling energy...right? Well, the only thing in reality that behaves like this is plasma (the fourth state of matter). How exactly "magical" beings cast plasma from their hands without burning their hands off or accidentally irradiating themselves and their surroundings I don't know. BUT, there is one scientific principle that could explain the majority of the magic seen in fantasy...its the famous E=mc^2 (or the energy-mass equivalence) which states that energy and mass are interchangeable. This means that if you concentrate enough light energy at any point in space you will create matter and that if you break down matter fast enough you would convert all the mass present into a corresponding amount of energy. This principle would explain how magical beings can seemingly materialize swords and items from seemingly nowhere. The craziest part is that this energy to matter conversion would give the magic user two copies of the same weapon or item. One made of matter and one made of antimatter.
Now here's the cool part. The possible reason that magical beings only materialize regular matter weapons is that the antimatter they produce is reacted with another particle of matter to generate more energy to create more matter-antimatter particle pairs and this chain reaction would make any item materialize almost instantaneously and with a flash of bright light because when matter and antimatter react they create a lot of light energy (in the form of gamma rays though).
The better part is that the same light energy creating matter-antimatter pairs is that the energy released from reacting the matter-antimatter pair would ionize the surrounding air and turn it into a plasma, which is what magic spells look like in most fantasy settings...right? And guess what else: the crazy and insanely powerful magical feats seen in fantasy make sense if they are powered by antimatter-matter reactions because these reactions are 100% efficient and are the most energetic reactions in the entire universe!
To put this into perspective: a gram of matter reacting with a gram of regular matter would generate enough energy to power the entirety of the United states' electric grid...for two whole days!
This energy-to-matter equivalence could even explain shape-shifting, changing ones size, flight, and rapid healing!
As to the other more...strange powers: like premonition, teleportation, becoming intangible (ghostly, walking through walls, etc), and enchantment....that's a topic that still can't be well explained by science yet!
Patrick Milewski
Merfolk would use Flint-knapped Stone points and broken pieces of coral for their weapons. As to armor, I would expect a fish much like a Gar, or coelcanth, would provide a sturdy, knife-proof, water-stable leather for making into armor. In fantasy you could add whatever sort of heavy-hide creature you need to give them such an armor.
As to magic, you're not far off. Look into the Matrix Reality, and you'll find some interesting stuff.
If you haven't seen, On Stranger Tides, you missed out on some great merlady grappling hook/rope action!
Well Mr. Shadiversity you have given me ideas on some merfolk weapons in a novel I have been working on.
Something which I find people rarely consider when discussing merfolk, and other underwater creatures, is the pressure they live in. Merfolk are often depicted as living on the ocean floor, while also being able to survive at surface level. However, depending on where in the ocean, the pressure on the ocean floor is enormous, and just like humans can't survive in high pressure, a creature designed to live under high pressure may not able to survive under low pressure. For example, there are species of fish which will die when brought to the surface due to the gasses in their body expanding, particularly when this happens quickly. While this doesn't necessarily mean merfolk would be unable to surface at all, it would certainly be a challenge for them, and it could be lethal depending on the exact physical makeup. Also, the pitchfork is the poorman's trident.
I enjoyed this video but I do have a few disagreements. I think that the best sword for merfolk would be something that focuses on stabbing, so useful for the same reason the spear is. I imagine that short swords would be useful because they are good at stabbing and their short length gives them less drag in the water. Also, there are weapons like rapiers - long and skinny swords which would have low drag and would allow for lethal stabbing actions underwater. If you look up Minoan rapiers, you will see an ancient bronze rapier style sword which would be good for menfolk about it isn't steel. Maybe even something like an estoc would be useful.
I think that grappling hooks might have their uses, but they are going to be slow and inaccurate at a range compared to other ranged weapons. So if humans on a ship are fighting merfolk below, the will have their bows or crossbows at the ready and the merfolk would have to expose themselves to these superior projectiles in order to throw the grappling hooks, which humans might be able to avoid because of how relatively slow the hook would travel through the air. Also, unless its a small ship, humans would have a height advantage making it easier for the humans to shoot down on menfolk in the water and harder for the merfolk to hit their human foes.
A weapon I think would be extremely valuable to merfolk in a fight against humans on a ship is some kind of hand cranked drill. Drills of various sorts have been around for thousands of years, such as bow drills, and if the merfolk could swim up underneath a wooden ship and drill holes in the hull, they could win without ever actually engaging the humans in direct combat.
If the merfolk are engaged in combat with a ship, they might want to employ a shield wall of sorts? I doubt that they would use shields much themselves under water, but against a land foe with arrows, it might be useful. They could interlock square or rectangular shields on top of the water and the shields would float, forming a protective floating platform-wall. Maybe it would be better just to swim down a bit deeper, but it is an interesting image.
While they're under the surface the arrows would do minimal damage anyway.
ShieldWife more than a rapier a kind of lancesword like the Patton saber would be good
Oh yeah, or a Polish koncerz.
I think the best sidearm and defensive weapon by far underwater would be a knife rather than any kind of sword, the floating shieldwall idea I really liked though, they could swim up en masse under cover and drill holes all across & under the ships
For the sword part, I'd imagine a rapier-like weapon could work well too (as long as it's not to elaborate) as rapiers are relatively thin which means they don't produce as much drag. Also since rappers are a sword which emphasizes dexterity and grace over strength, the merfolk could use this to their advantage because water creates a more three dimensional environment, which means that they could possibly be better at the weapon because the more acrobatic moves on land would be far more easy for them.
Dank_Smirk Modern scuba divers wear chainmail to protect against shark bites. Rivited chainmail would be highly prized by mermaids for stopping shark bites and could buy it with gold found in sunken ships. Sailors could use it as a bargaining chip for safe passage by leaving one of thier own at shore with the chainmail while the rest go on boat.
Mary Dominguez yeah, and it isn't that hard to protect against rust anyways
What medieval weapons would Australians use?
WisePictWarrior the digeri-sword ,brought with digeri-dollars in digeri-smiths
Riding emus, of course.
mounted emu
Emus are bloody scary mate. When you get a chance, read about the Emu war. It was a real thing we failed to win here in Aus.
Yup. I know all too well. Lest we forget the fallen pride of the Australian army.
Poison seems like an obvious option for underwater combat... your opponents won't be wearing armour, since they'd sink, and you can't expect to break bones or chop off an arm with water resistance, but use man-o-war/fugu toxin on a stiletto or even just sea urchin spines on a stick and you could probably end a fight pretty quick. Also, if you need a potentially sharp, non-corroding material for small blades and points, try clam or oyster shell. Also also, mancatchers.
As a sword, rapiers would work as well. And considering their size (diameter of blades and the tip pairs for speed in water and great puncturing power) they may even be contenders for being better than spears.
They can also be used one-handed
I mentioned rapiers in my comment before I saw this on oops
Fascinating analysis! Now I'm REALLY waiting for your thoughts on angels :D
Maria João Dias Barata I see pole arms and bows being friends to angels
+Brandon Tillery Pole arms maybe, if they absolutely must land, but I'm thinking they'd rather not, and they'd use long range weapons in general, because those wings are bulky and cumbersome in close quarters. But since they can fly they can literally just go over their enemies and drop a bunch of stabby stuff on them, or hot oil or something that explodes since they can get away quickly. It would be carnage XD
If curved weapons are effective underwater then the Egyptian khopesh would be a good secondary along side with the dacian falx as a primary. Or a two handed African sickle sword cuz why not
Shad: “Push and Pull fighting style”
-Intense Tui and La Avatar flashback ensues-