Make a PCB with 3D printer, UV led and photosensitive film
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 มี.ค. 2023
- In this movie I explain how a designed pcb layout is transferred to a pcb plate covered with a photosensitive layer.
For this I use a 3D printer, a UV LED and a pcb plate with a photosensitive layer.
Please, now I really know: UV laser, SLA printer, voice,
slow, silly argument because of the total time from design to product.
make substantive arguments.
FreeCAD 3D files:
drive.google.com/drive/folder...
![[Live] : ONE FIGHT NIGHT 22 วันนี้!! "สมิลลา vs นาตาเรีย"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Hmzh7heFvx8/mqdefault.jpg)
One question: Why do you only have 127 subscribers?? This was an incredible project to watch that combines expertise from so many fields!!
because he has only 1 video
It is very true, although I notice that perhaps since he is not a person of young ages and young people consume more internet, this means that this valuable content is seen by few people because the project is quite innovative.
380
@@HakkiOgrt 603
Correct that , .... it's 605 subs ?
I've seen a few attempts at using cnc to expose boards, most were pretty bad and others quite expensive to build. Yours is impressive, simple and has decent resolution especially for basic through hole boards. May take a crack at building a dedicated one, have lots of extrusion and printer parts laying around. Thanks for sharing !
A top notch prersentation and build. Even though I will never use any of this, I love watching for the heck of it!! Very well done.
im never going to try this but this is super cool, so cool to see people make custom things that work on 3d printers. Great work :)
Отличное видео и отличная идея! Спасибо за подробное описание всего процесса.
Nice project! Excellent realisation! Thank you for sharing!
Brilliant, just brilliant. I look forward to additional instructional videos.
This is a next-level project that you did... Hat's Off!
love the idea. Imagine using a fiberoptic. You can get these super thin. Place the led on the desk. Easy to setup on any printer. Keep it up!
Check out marcoreps instead.
Not just any fiber though. Losses through conventional 62um or even 1.5um fiber would be too high and coupling light into those requires either precision optics or lasers. For UV, you need to use hollow core fiber that starts at 200um and about $40/ft, which is only about twice the resolution of this pinhole implementation. If you want to focus down to less than 200um, more optics will be needed at the other end too, at which point you may as well go with 400um hollow core to more easily pump more UV in.
I have three CNC machines, and a 3D printer... did I ever think of using it to expose photosensitive film? NOPE!
Great job! Thank you for many new ideas!
Your idea remembers me 40 years ago when I used the same principle to adapt a dot matrix printer into a scanner! Yes it works! Maybe a focusing lens could greatly improve the resolution. Thanks for sharing!
Theoretically: yes
Practical: no
The spot size is highly dependent on the lens-object distance.
The diaphragm of the lens greatly reduces the amount of light.
It requires an expensive lens system.
And a greater distance from the light source results in wavy lines when the machine vibrates.
@@wilstraver962 Do you have the 3d specs for your apparatus? Do you sell the jigg?
I agree, many high quality sony UV laser diodes are cheap and simply use glass lens. Should be easy to build and provides a fine laser focus point. I have them sitting around, brand new many kinds of sony UV laser diodes and ender 3 V2. I never bothered to build the ender 3 v2 because I didn't expect it to provide decent PCB pitch lines. This youtube video shows it is very promising.
Amazing work, thank you for sharing this!
Awesome job! thanks for sharing ❤
Amazing what people do with the humble Ender
Very interesting project, thank you for sharing and for using your time to advance things.
Very nice idea. Very clever realisation ! Your channel needs more subscribers !
I like this alternate usage very much, and believe that I will try it.
Bravo! Wonderful idea. Great work!
Wonderful video.
I'd already thinked about doing PCBs at home and made a tabletop CNC mill, but after seeing this video, I want to make an UV light addon, it is much more simpler and creates less mess.
Correct, the milling process vibrates alot and makes a really bad mess. I may convert the milling machine into laser/uv diode.
only upside of milling is that you get holes with your pcb but otherwise, too much pain in the ass.
makes me wonder if you could shove a bit of scrap fiber optic cable to get more resolution. I get why you don't want to use a lens in this setup, but maybe the you can push enough light in the fiber for it.
@@warlockd I think you meant to write a message under the video and not under my comment, but I'll try to figure it out anyway.
In the article "Transmission of UV Light with Optical Fiber" on the lasercomponents website there is a statement that a regular optical cable will not work, I quote:
"In wavelengths shorter than 260 nm, UV light caused degradation in conventional fibers - a direct result of solarization effects."
There is also a chart where you can see degradation of regular optical fiber cables.
So basically you will need special optical fiber cable by Polymicro or other vendor in order to work for a long time or if you would use regular one then change it after half an hour of usage.
@warlockd this actually a brilliant idea. The only constraint would be how much overlap you could get when creating a fill type shape and of course the resolution of each step.... keen to see what that looks like numbers wise
Great idea, thanks for sharing!
Very good idea. Great job, This is an excelent video!! Thank you for posting it.
Buen video, espero con ansias más videos así
very very compliment , all fantastic
Great project!
awesome idea!
Wow, great project.
Great keep it up ❤
MUY BUENO!!! Regards from Argentina
Wonderful idea. Just brainstorming here, why not modify a hotend-nozzle assemby and use a 0.1 nozzle and put a uv LED inside that?
hotend-nozzle is reflective and you will loose occuracy
That sounds excellent!!
nice job mate. very resourceful.
Good stuff 👍🏼
Interesting technology! Thank you!
keep the good work! thanks for sharing
Einfach nur eine geniale Idee, bitte mach weiter so
Wow! That is an amazing system.
Simply WOW
Leuk project, goed werk!
Nice work!
Wow, something really new, congrats and blessi gs. You are a multi-knowledge man and i try to be like you. Great project and subscribed right now!!!!
Great project. You have money in your hands. You should commercialise this
Formidable ! 👍
Thank you so much! Shared in Hungary :)
Your work is amazing, and I was really interested in your ideas, and how you made it.
Although I think your mic setup is holding your channel back a lot, if you're wanting to do this for your videos to get popular- there was a lot of pops and background noise from your mic when you were speaking, that meant I had to dial in the audio just right to where I could hear it, but not louder, where it would start to hurt/chafe my ears. I think less background noise, a pop filter, or a better mic are all things that may make your videos significantly more enjoyable to watch.
That being said, I'm really glad YT recommended you to me, I loved the video, and wish you luck in your projects!
Good point.
I've myself previously removed noise from the microphone using Audacity (used in post production), then I've used VoiceMeeter and Cantabile with Reafir plugin, and now I'm switched to Nvidia Broadcast (requires Nvidia GPU). Second and third method can be used for removing noise after and during the voiceover recording. But I found Nvidia Broadcast as the winner.
rnnoise is a similar concept as nvidia broadcast (very good but not as good as nvidia's), but open source and it's included now in OBS studio (add filter to microphone -> add -> noise suppression)
Thanks for this very nice video.
Amazing
Very interesting idea.
Excellent!
This is really good 👍
good proyect. nice❤
No entiendo como tiene mas de 2k de likes pero solo 941 subs.
Excelente idea
Saludos!!!!!!
Hello, thank you for your nice video. I have been using this method for several years, but with a simple (but good) blue laser diode. I buy printed circuit boards with photoresist already present, and about 100mW is enough.
If some through holes needed, would you cnc drill them after the laser pass?
@@lpjunction It is rare that there are no holes at all at least for the connectors. I drill with a hand-held drill press. I avoid holes as much as possible by favoring SMD components.
@@danielroibert5631
Simple connector hole could be hand drilled.
But modern IC, even a simple one, has more legs than a centipede.
One quickly come to a point when 2d is not enough, we need 2 planes with some through holes.
Then of course, for prototyping, the through holes could be avoided with jump-wires.
Next, you'll be playing with micro-surgery soldering. Have fun.
For normal drilling, the drill action is usually downward. I once have a DC motor drill for PCB,
the drill is installed under a small 'table', the drill action is upward. To locate where to drill, there
is a transparent acrylic glass secured about 7mm above the table, so the pcb can slide freely on the
table. For the first time, the drill poke upward to make a small hole on acrylic. Then you can use this
hole to guide the pcb at the spot right above the drill bit and press the motor upward to drill.
Add a magnifying glass to help, to me it is easier than using a drill press to drill downward.
@@lpjunction Thank-you. I don't know what you are getting at. I don't make PCBs for mobile phones. I just use 2.54 pitch connectors. I mainly use 0.8mm or 1mm drillings and that works fine for me. Your bottom-up thing sounds interesting, but I’m not sure how it looks.
For soldering too thin to be done with an iron, I use my reflow oven. And again, I only do prototyping. If I need better quality or small runs, I have them done at JLCPCB.
@@lpjunction That's a brilliant drilling method! Might be even better if you put the acrylic on thumb screw/spring mounts like a 3D printer bed so you can raise and lower it to be just more than the thickness of the PCB. That would eliminate parallax error when positioning, and serve as support for the drill pressure so you don't have to hold the PCB down to the table by hand.
Very interesting 👍
genius.... brawo
I had such project in mind however later gave up and just used SLA printer display for exposing photosensitive film on small (~10x15cm) boards.
Construction is idiotic but the idea is GOLD! This might turn into the best way to create PCB's at home.
Odds you'd make a video or release the files for the small drill press you used?
A MSLA Resin 3d Printer can expose the whole board at once in like 30s. Already tested this with an Elegoo Mars
Genius!
nicely done Will, maybe an old mechanical watch movement can help you to make the orifice. I would use a jewel of it. vary of sizes are to find. balance axel is usually between 0.09 to 0.12mm, they are wear-resistant. Hence, this is how they made the pcb films long ago with the use of aperture wheels. If I find some time will make a similar device and upload a video of it. " just did a quick test, the red ruby doesn't filter the UV light"
You make me very curious.
Try obsidian 😯😃
@@wilstraver962 0.1mm doesn't pass enough UV, it's not intense enough. this makes it a slow process.
Love this, I wonder if there is a heat reactive resist, then you can just use the nozzle ?
jenius :3 i will make one
Great video, you should be very proud :)
Гениальное просто
This is pretty neat. What about - instead of making a pinhole with an LED inside - mounting the LED somewhere out of the way and coupling it into a TOSLINK cable to not only position light output more precisely but also reduce the complexity of the setup?
do you apply the uv resist film with a laminator? I didn't have much success using this kind of film so far but using a uv led might improve the result
I used UV laser instead. I was able to reliably get 0.25mm traces. I also tried adding a motor with a drill to make vias and mount holes. The only con with a laser is that it uses PWM driver and can’t be adjusted with input voltage (yet this is how most 3d printer controllers work - the gcode command adjusts voltage).
PWM and voltage control are about the same thing, since the result of PWM is the average value.
The main difference is heat dissipation in the controler.
I tried do almost this. First I tried print plastic to the plate, but nothing succeeded. Then I tried attach pencil to hot end and thought printer can drawing it, but I'm used gcode for 3d model and printer didn't pull up printhead when changing positions. This solution is amazing. I will try to repeat this.
Nice
Have you thought about a solution using a resin printer, finding a way to clamp the copper plate to the printer bed ? You might get a much greater resolution and precision
Fantástico
Great work , but your Google drive is incomplete!
Great work! i was wondering is a uv laser could be used to make the setup more simple, but maybe the pinhole is necessary to prevent leaking of the light to the surrounding film
Basically they're will work the same, the only difference is that this print head will drive over the photosensitive layer and laser will be flying above it.
Also the laser will require you to use protection, in order to protect your eyes from burn also the laser costs more than one UV LED.
@@frankhovis I've copied messages from this thread to notepad and searched for word "blue", but nothing was found. We specifically wrote "UV laser", "UV diode", because this photosensitive film is activates in UV spectre.
Interesting way to sensitize PCB photoresit, what kind of PCB trace resolution can be obtained? Good enough for QFN/FPGA circuits?
СПАСИБО ЗА ИДЕЮ
I wonder if you can use a scrap piece of fiber optics and glue it in the hole as a makeshift lens. I would hesitate to use single mode as its way to small, but maybe? I think you would have to polish the fiber each use though as it would scratch itself up. Humm, maybe it doesn't have to drag itself on the surface, as its small enough. Ugh to to play with this setup, digging out my old ender 3 now and my 20 year old splicing kit hah.
Filling the pinhole is a good idea.
I tried that with UV glue and also with a two component glue. Unfortunately a lower light output. I have not investigated this further. But any solution from anyone is interesting.
Круто!
I like it means it liked by many ...🎉🎉
Maybe make a product from your design because this is a long process to make small amounts of simple PCB's. Try to build a parts list and make a more polished product. Great work thought brother :)
Would it be possible to use two sets of opposing razor blades to further refine the size of the etching laser?
Watch out, you might end up with a diffraction pattern.
Would be cool to try with an SLA printer. I bet you can get better resolution that way
Voice is like - "wake up mr freeman, wake up and smell the ashes..."
I wonder if this can be done with some type of laser with very narrow beam... great project!
Uv light for pcb usually need a circa 400 nm wavelenght.
Red laser is 630/670 nm, green is about 520.
Blue is about 445 nm, so maybe with blue ...
I wonder if you couldn't just use the nozzle of the printer and drop the UV lamp down into the hot end... then you can expose it directly through a .2 or .4 nozzle, for example.
good idea, the dot of ligth must be better and smaller
Better yet, why not expose the photosensitive pcb through an lcd screen like in resin printers? It would only take seconds to finish and the resolution would be incomparable.
other people already do with resin printers... they already have a very uniform and powerful UV source, but i like this methot too ...
Man, you are the Bob Ross of Electronic.
Thank you. Bob Ross built up his paintings from base to detail. In an almost scientific way, the way I worked with MSc and PhD students.
Woderful solution to make PCB boards on a 3d printer. Thanks
Does it make it in just one pass. Only controlling the time the led is lighting over a point?
Thank you for the positive response.
The pcb is exposed in 1 run. The amount of light on the film is determined by the intensity of the light source, the speed that it moves over the film and the size of the pinhole (0.1 0.2 0.3mm .. etc). So 3 parameters to control the exposure.
Have you considered using a focusing lens to narrow the UV beam with a more concentrated area? I would expect to get better than 0.5 mm track. I can see this easily getting down to 0.127 mm without any major problems. Depending on the focusing optics, you can use the Z height to adjust the track/UV energy width.
I'm thinking putting the uv led in the nozzle with a drop of distilled water at the tip acting like a lense. You could change the focus by rising or lowering the led
direct contact with the film is simply the best method to do this. no need for any sort of lenses, cheap simple, and perfect results. the final result will be the quality of the 3d printer.
0:54 - Bravo. That is amazing you are able to do this on an Ender 3D printer. Which version is your 3D printer, V2 or v3? Is it possible to simply use a low wattage sony UV laser with good glass optics, would cost less than $30 for it.
Mooi idee! I assume you're Dutch from your accent but great idea just in case. I want to make something similar for applying UV solder mask.
¿Y usar laser de grabado? Con pintura de cualquier tipo sobre el cobre
I saw another video like this but they used a blueray laser and a pickup lense to tune the spot size
How about printing to the bare copper one layer plastic? ABS, PETG, etc does not stick to the copper? Do they not block the etching fluid? Is it hard to remove later by hand?
I do not understand your question.
What does this method have to do with ABS, PETG etc?
@@wilstraver962 These materials are fairly common in 3D printing, and I don't know how much they like to stick to copper. If you print the circuit with them, and they stick well, then you don't need to customise a 3D printer with an UV LED, just print the circuit to the PCB, and etch it.
@@wilstraver962 he means this and yes it is possible th-cam.com/video/6T5zfDgzyK0/w-d-xo.html
Nice video, just a guess but i assume you are dutch ( totaly not due to the Action aircan duster)
please upload more video about this
I never seen Subscribe Number increasing , that much Fast 🎉🎉
Hello, your work is very nice ,I will do it when I have the opportunity and time :S .after getting out of jail XD ... I wanted to try to make eye lens for imaging by pressing a matrix on a transparent led surface like yours on a simple level.even pcb circuit, battery, mechanic, synthetic, texture, metal, plastic, wood :) was a nice .When you think about it, it is possible to print full brain tissue, even positronic brain XD there are a few more things i want to try.
I use UV leds to make my pcb.
Exposure time is about 3:30 min.
I'm a bit surprised you get results so fast.
What kind of led do you use ?
Is it a 10W ?
Watch the movie from about 7:00
@@wilstraver962 Well, I'm stupid, I missed this part :)
Thanks.
I watched this video in complete disgust. I cannot believe the amount of time you put into such a halfwit video a video that makes me feel like a halfwit because in all honesty I give you props kind sir for sharing such an amazing design with the public free of charge you really are in touch with your creative side and i dont care what anyone else says, coulda shoulda woulda did it this or that way. You came through with amazing results and this is why you are the one making the videos and they are the ones giving you advice. Yeah i probably could come up with a device that would smoke this device but i dont have 20 more years to sit around and think about it lol. Thank you buddy. Good luck to you and your future endeavors. Where does one go about getting the exact led and driver that you used in this video? Im gonna watch it again and see if i missed that part. Once again ,
thank you!!!
Hi! Why such difficulties, if there are cheap UV lasers. I expose photosensitive film and solder mask using these lasers.
How is your Ender printer soo quiet?? Mine is loud as hell.