I'll try not to tell my whole story. Got the original SW SA in 2017. Used it with a DSLR and lenses. Almost impossible to find Polaris, let alone star hop in bortle 9. Bought a QHY POLEMASTER (awsome, then, don't use it now) to facilitate good polar alignment. Last year got the SW SA GTI. The Synscan app was not that useful or accurate. Got a ZWO ASIAIR. This is the ticket. I call this little box "The Zen of astrophotography"! It just works! Basically after stumbling in the dark (haha) for 5 years of marginal success I now find and capture "quality" images. Once I got the ZWO ASIAIR, ended up diving in. AS1533MC PRO, guidescope and camera, on a modest 360 MM Doublet. On sale at Highpoin during NEAF, I even bought the EAF. I'm very happy with there ecosystem! I can bring it outside, polar align, and be imaging in under a half hour. Used to be ALOT l o n g e r.....
Bing Crosby sang, "Don't Fence Me In" and it's a sentiment and philosophy I prefer to ride with. I like to take time choosing what's best for me and what works together and here ASCOM is your best friend and all within that thin envelope of what I can afford. My astro-imaging equipment is a veritable United Nations of brands-an iOptron mount, ZWO main and guide cameras, Samyang lens, Pegasus power management and a StarTech USB over Ethernet hub allowing control of a session 25 metres down the garden through house walls and from the comfort of the living room. For software there's SharpCap Pro a UK company and PHD2 with the best user base around, Stellarium to provide a planetarium view of tbe local night sky with a home made background so I know when targets are actually visible and Pegasus Unity software for power control to mount, cameras and dew heaters. They all co-exist alongside each other and work. So it"s horses for courses and I do agree with Ben on the subject of competition in the hobby. Cheers,Steve
I like ZWO a lot but I am against ecosystems - I don't want to end up enclosed in a single brand at all! No way! That is an Apple thing and I will never again fall for it. So my advice: learn NINA for a few minutes (yes it is that easy) and be free! Thats why I never ever will buy an Asiair (again) which dictates what cameras, what focuser I should use - not for me.
You are right about the closed ecosystem of the ASIAIR… more or less… you can use any mount, though. But Apple is not a closed system. A very common and unfortunate mis-conception. I think other tools became better in recent years, because ZWO showed everyone how easy it can be. Therefore, Ben’s statement « ZWO & the ASIAIR need more competition » is very valid. I have been trying to use StellarMate and INDIGOSKY… it is still super buggy, unstable and much more complicated to use.
I told myself that after master the ASI AIR I would go back to learning some of the more complex systems. But I never have. The simplicity is to easy to live with. Not yet seen any good reason to with to Nina or any of the other ones. They are all too complicated and do not work out of the box.
Thoroughly agree. I jumped down the rabbit hole of astrophotography three years ago at 67 years old. Simplicity and versatility were important to me. ZWO was a game changer with the ASI Air. I was able to enjoy the hobby from the get go without learning various software designed for a PC....NINA, PHD2, ASCOM, etc. It is a backyard hobby for me....I'm not a professional nor am I an advanced expert. ZWO recognized that in my opinion. Create an Eco System that is user friendly. thank you sir 😉
I told myself that after master the ASI AIR I would go back to learning some of the more complex systems. But I never have. The simplicity is to easy to live with. Not yet seen any good reason to with to Nina or any of the other ones. They are all too complicated and do not work out of the box.
I too really struggle with complicated software for imaging. There's nothing more frustrating than having your laptop start playing up when you're outside trying to capture data before the dreaded clouds roll in ( which in England happens a lot! ).
i was apart of the beta for adding sony mirrorless camera support. Everything that i brought up to them was acknowledged. not necessarily fixed but they acknowledged it. I asked them a few weeks back via the app. "do you have plans to add custom images to the planetarium for better orientation for your area ?" they emailed me back within 30 minutes saying it was in the pipeline but with no specific date. I have never had a company the size of ZWO be so responsive. They innovate, they test, they do quality assurance. I do wish i could get other astro cameras to work, but i also understand why they dont. the size of the company, and the scale to which they are building up and out. there is no way to support all cameras with the same quality and integration, and it hurts a growing companies bottom line for all the work they are doing. I think eventually they will be able to... zwo for what its worth is doing what it can and people who would never have done astrophotography are starting because they have provided solutions. anyone else excited to see a 585 cooled camera?
Just goes to show how important customer experience is. My first dedicated astro camera was also a zwo asi178mm, although mine is the cool. Still using it today.. as a guide cam and a planetary cam :)
Good thoughts and ideas - am in that exact position to decide the ecosystem - got the apo and gem28 - now time for computer Eaf guiding and cam. Much appreciated 👍
I agree with every single word you said! The ASIAIR Pro got me into Astrophotography. In 2019/20 I was looking for a simple standalone 12V-based system to run my scope and take pictures. The ZWO ecosystem allowed me to do this out-of-the box.
I'm just getting started (with my third, and deepest dive into astronomy) and went with the ASIAir for all the reasons you talk about. I've got an AS120MM guide camera already (easy choice), and a ASI533MC Pro Cooled (took longer to decide) on the way. Can't wait to set it all up with my SV550 80mm on a EQ6R Pro. I've got to say how much I appreciate the level of the equipment available now that was out of reach of everyone just a few decades ago.
Great video! I'm not a fan boy I just tend to stick with one brand, I don't like having to learn the ins and outs of multiple brands. I chose NINA when I started and will likely stay with it as it has grown with me and I know it fairly well. When buying my first dedicated astro camera I ended up going with ZWO they had just come out with the ASI533MC Pro and it was the perfect choice for me at that time, now I have the ASI183MM Pro, ASI2600MM pro and the ASI294MM Pro all great camera's. The one that really surprised me is the 183, the images I get with that camera blow me away, the detail is amazing. It does have amp glow but it calibrates out easily and the price is very easy on the wallet. Now I want the AM5 mount but I already have two EQ6-R Pro's and one Ioptron CEM40.
Very well said. I think ZWO knocked it out of the park with the ASIAIR and it has made my astrophotography journey enjoyable. I also don't have the time to fight through multiple ecosystems and appreciate when people simplify things. The true art of engineering is to get things as simple as possible which perform the related tasks efficiently. I also wish that there was an ASIAIR alternative which was open to multiple manufacturers w.r.t. mounts and cameras and EAF's etc.. I agree 100%. Cheers!
Cross compatibility or open source would be nice. As was mentioned on ASTROESCAPE, the EAF needs to be easily interchangeable on different setups! I bought a second one because it was too much hassle to interchange.
Hey Ben, thank you for the video and for the information as I too agree with you on the echo system being a major part in ones buying decision. Same thing in the software industry which is what I do for a living. I see the same concerns, questions and buying decisions being made in both arenas. I am not a ZWO shrill either but I do enjoy the ease of use and overall simplicity of both the documentation and product understanding. BTW, I too hope you are doing much better and, in the fight, to kick that cancers butt. God Willing. Many prayers sent your way.. God Bless...
I have a question from further down the road when this video was recorded. Do you still feel this way? How do you feel about other companies such as Player One?
I have to agree, Ben! I find ZWO documentation to be outstanding and they seem to be one of the few companies that provides such detailed specs on their equipment, which makes it much easier to do research and make good choices. Sometimes it seems a bit limiting to be tied to their ecosystem, but I love the ease of use of everything and how things integrate well. How are you doing?
Totally agree! You know WHAT, I live in China, and Both ZWO and QHY are Chinese companies , and they do their things totally different, like 2 years ago, when I was 13 years old, I have trouble using QHY guide cameras, sent them an email and now, 1.5 years later, I checked the inbox, Nothing ! And I went to QHY's company, their CEO is very shy and quiet, playing a 3D printed harmonic prototype in front of me for about 15minutes, and watched their team grabing PCBs in and out. So I jumped into ZWO's family, I gonna say, using the ASIAIR is a nice experence, And I'm using a SW Star Adventurer, and ask ZWO to make a framing option for NON GOTO , and guess what, just 4! 4 days , I can use the framing option without GOTO and just press refresh, It will tell me were the camera is point, and no need to star hopping what so ever. And QHY make a raspi pc called Starmaster which support all kinds of brand , but the UI just sucks. So for me or other teenagers, ZWO is a wise choice.😊
I couldn't agree more Ben. I started with a laptop in astrophotography but soon realised that APT or Nina was actually unreliable. Whether it was plate solving or guide settings there was always something every now again that didn't work. So I bought all Zwo cameras and the asi air starting with the original to the latest plus and it just works !! I can't understand why some just love the complexity of a pc with all the separate softwares. Hope you're doing okay......I've also subscribed to your channel .
ZWO products are nice but are mostly beyond my budget. I'm just starting astrophotography and have already crowded my budget. Probably will use NINA since club members use it. Eventually I may purchase some ZWO products but not every last thing. If ZWO software was open source and compatible with other items I would be interested in it. A lot depends on how far down the rabbit hole I go. I agree with what you say but still sounds a bit loke an advert.
+1 to everything you said. I'm a relative novice in astrophotography, really only diving in fully this past February. After much research, I went with all ZWO gear (other than my scope) for the same reasons that you mention. A lot of people lament the fact that ASIAir only works with ZWO products - whereas I happen to think this is a "good thing". They can make it work perfectly, rather than developing for the "lowest common denominator" and doing nothing very well. Oftentimes I'm already 1 hour into shooting while others around me are still fiddling with getting their equipment to work!
I was really interested to hear what you had to say when I saw the video’s title. It turns out your rationale was identical to mine, and it all boiled down to one factor: simplicity. I acquired a Star Adventurer GTi last fall and had some modest success with it, but it involved using a Dell laptop (I’m all Apple ecosystem for everything else) to run Sharpcap, PhD2, and the SynScan app, not to mention the requirement to balance the payload in both DEC and RA. And then I had to put together a Rube Goldberg (i.e., absurdly complex) set of clamps and adapters to attach my OM System OM-1 camera mounted on the Olympus 100-400mm lens and as well as a ZWO guide scope and camera to a vixen style dovetail plate. Setup took 30-40 minutes, break down 20-30. And the equipment was heavy. So late this May I made a major decision because I’m 73 and the clock is ticking. So I spent a pretty penny and purchased the ZWO AM5 mount, the ZWO ASI533MC camera, the ZWO ASIAIR Plus, and the new Redcat 61 (not a ZWO product but it is the same color of red as the ZWOs!). I realized I would be committing to the ZWO ecosystem, but I had experience with the benefits of doing that sort of thing because ours is an all-Apple household. Things worked almost perfectly except for two defective usb cables that made my first light a bust. Simon at ZWO helped me sort this out and even told me who to contact at Agena Astro to get replacements! The defective usb cables are a fairly well-known problem with a couple months worth of ZWO products and which has apparently been rectified since, and Agena helped me replace the bad ones immediately and even went the extra mile to do so. Since then, things have worked smoothly, although the combination of excessive cloudiness and wildfire smoke have really made this a bad summer for astrophotography in many parts of North American. And the entire operation is much, much simpler than my previous setup. And lighter too. As I learn the AIR better, I’ll be giving it a try with my Celestron C6 OTA for planetary (got the ZWO ASI 678MC for that). Although I won’t be able to beat that ticking clock, I hope this new setup will keep me in the hobby for several more years. And on a totally different topic, I recently received an email from OM System with a five-minute video by an OM System ambassador about using the High Resolution modes on some OM System cameras. In it he explains how to use the Handheld High Resolution mode on a tripod to photograph the Milky Way without using a tracker. I tried it last night, and I really works!
If you read my posts here, you'll note that I went through a similar journey. I'm also 73. We have less time ahead of us than behind, and the asiair just helps save time and frustration. The Northern, and sometimes upper US states are plagued with wildlife smoke (strange that no Canadians are speaking up, it must be worse for them), In fact here in Wisconsin, the News just said it's going to come back the rest of the week. Another reason streamlining, to maximize imaging time is awsome. I'm happily using rhe SW SA GTI with a 360 MM Doublet, 533, zwo guide camera/scope, EAF and a few do-dads, with no weight, or balance issues. ASTROESCAPE has great learning video. The GTI works with asiair using a Q-MOD cable. See Peter Zelinka's videos on using a half cage and Arca clamps to mount guide rig on a DSLR. I just mount mine to the hot shoe.
In addition to simplicity and weight, another reason I made the switch to the ZWO equipment were several near catastrophe’s with my OM-1/Oly 100-400 mounted on the GTi (all due to user error). The last straw came when I purchased an inexpensive ZWO adapter to attach the ASI533MC to the Oly lens and found that I couldn’t remove the adapter! Thanks to Simon at ZWO and some TH-cam videos my wife found, I eventually removed the adapter after spending several hours using a hand-powered drill to create a channel through the adapter that allowed me to use a precision tweezers to get the adapter’s pin to release. This saved my $1,500 lens for other uses, primarily wildlife photography. Within a couple of days after dodging that bullet, I purchased all of the other ZWO equipment having decided to go the dedicated astro setup route for simplicity, weight savings, and to stop putting my OM-1 and Oly 100-400 lens at risk. By the way, keep your eyes open for the northern lights. The sun is in a really active phase this year and next, and the auroras have started being visible farther south than they are usually. That is, when the clouds and wildfire smoke allow them to be seen!
@@TheNarrowbandChannel Ben, I thought I should add that a major motivator that led me to get the Oly f/5.0-6.3 100-400 lens was your recommendation of it for astrophotography in one of your videos a few years ago!
QHY makes some great cameras, my only cooled camera right now is a QHY. I would buy another QHY camera, but i might end up going with ZWO because of the USB Hubs, and ASIAir compatibility. USB Hubs are just nice for cable management, but ZWO locking their ecosystem down in the ASIAir is annoying, but the utility there is worth it for me. If QHY, or SVBony (or even if ZWO decided to simply open up the ASIAIR platform) were to come out with alternatives I’d probably buy them. But ZWO & PegasusAstro have the best (and most affordable) ecosystems. Primaluce too, but they’re a bit too expensive
i like youself, own a number of zwo cameras, i also own a blue risingcam IMX571...love it. I recently bought a player one Ares-M. I'd love to see you get your hands on one and really go through it's capabilities, build quality etc
I started with Nina etc and had it work once, I then saw the AA+ at a star party when they were trialling it with the public. I went home and ordered one the next day, I have not looked back..
Excellent points. I’m ZWO all the way. I was up and running last night with my PA in 4 minutes and shot the witches broom and andromeda in my 1.5 hour session. They make Astro so much easier and seamless, clear skies to all of you forever and a day🙏💕
Technically, the ASIAir has competitors (PrimaLuceLab's Eagle, Ikarus' StellarMate Pro and WondererAstro's Wondererbox Pro are the main ones that come to mind). They are just far more expensive. Even though I would love to try the Eagle, I'll never be able to afford it. But I can afford an ASIAir and know it will work with my set up.
There are three things that make a product, service, quality and price and you really only need two of those to be successful. Clearly they missed the boat on service and price, good call.
So brother, I'm about to take a break, some of the news has been out already, more to come soon. But, on your point, ZWO is doing more than the rest asking us to show the gear. I wholeheartedly wish the others would do the same and innovate.
I'm just getting started in astronomy and need more stuff. Typically if something is really popular in any hobby I go another way. But as a neophyte, I see the steep learning curve and need stuff that works. I want to do astronomy, not part time IT tech work. Good review. It definitely helped confirm my conclusions thus far.
I used to have a client whose slogan was "if we don't look after our customers someone else will" Sounds like ZWO adopt a similar philosophy. I use a lot of Altair gear and it works fine, but here in the UK it is generally a bit more expensive than ZWO and the eco system is nowhere near. I have to say if I was starting from scratch now I would seriously consider going with ZWO. As far as cameras go I don't see anything between, say, a 533 cooled sensor camera from one manufacturer to another as it will have the same sensor and probably the same basic electronic circuitry regardless. There may be some mechanical differences such as fan mounting arrangements etc. But for most people this would not be an issue. It is a pity that no one seems to produce an ASIair type control unit that has an open eco system for around the same price (I have an Eagle LE but that's at least twice the price of the ASIair)
One more proof that it isn't pure technology that sells products, but good marketing/sales support. ZWO also started working (years ago) towards building an ecosystem (based on the ASIair) and trying to make life easier for consumers (because, let's face it, we're consumers, not engineers).
QHY may be better quality, but I still have trouble understanding their filter wheel systems and adapters and screwing this and that according to the various videos and manuals. Astrophotography doesn't *have* to be too complex (it's already a major technical and financial challenge, hence my interest mostly on planetary imaging)
Thank's! I think ZWO is making a quite good job. Sexy stuff which is working very well for its purpose. For myself I have fun in exploring new tech and it is a part of the journey for me. (N.I.N.A ...) Therefore both ways have their reason to exist. But ZWO is definitely pushed this hobby for newbies like me a lot! br and cs
Good to know that I chose the right path (even without all the great info you provided just now) ZWO! Yes, I'm locked into ZWO and I am completely fine with that! Great video as always! Thanks!
I agree. The CEO of ZWO (Sam) is very approachable and does fullfil his promises. I went mini pc and went back to Asiair pro and plus too. I can open the roof and just image whenever I want with very little issues.
I wish zwo gave more control over high gain mode. Same sensor from different camera manufacturers perform differently. Watch Cuiv's recent video on the 585 and the capability Touptek appear to have extracted from it. I have a zwo asi585mc but I have no confidence zwo will bring the hdr mode to it. :(
3 words. Drivers, drivers, drivers. I've been through this myself. They can have the biggest and best sensors ever, if the thing doesn't work with my computer or software, because the drivers are terrible or even none-existent. That's when they become just an expensive paperweight, and I already had a few of those. ZWO has the best native drivers, period. It's that simple. Whether I use the Asiair, or decide with Windows or Linux, native drivers are ready, available and work. Unfortunately I cannot say the same thing about QHY or Touptek or the others. Just the other day, I needed extension pieces for my QHY camera. Guess what.. they don't have them, so I had to go get ZWO 21mm and a 15.5mm combo, that got me to 55mm backfocus. They take out all the guess work, trying to find simple things as pre-measured extension pieces . How not other companies doing this, sort of escapes me! I also have 3 ZWO cameras , some guiders too, I feel no regret getting them they all work as intended. I cannot say the same thing about other brands I also own and gathering dust on a shelf. Now, ZWO starts to sell scopes too, as well the new robotic mini scope. One thing I can bet for sure. Their scopes will be nicely optimized and easy to connect, and accessories available to connect their cameras. There is no doubt about that.
Unfortunately there is not one company that fits me. But I found some solutions that do work for me and some brands I will stay with. For example my telescopes and mounts are Skywatcher. Are they best? No. Are they the cheapest? No. For me at least the balance is right though. ASIAir? Not my solution but Astroberry works for me. ZWO cameras? Yes I like them. I have multiple ASI 1600MM that still work great for me and wont be changed? ZWO guiding cameras? I have two of them and additional cameras by SVBony because I like them too. Also ZWO is missing a camera rotator for me but the companies that do make one are not an option for me. But I get your point and it is great to have on company you can rely on.
@@TheNarrowbandChannel there are but nothing that has a bigger sensor, for anything APS-C i feel like the only real option is a normal DSLR or mirrorless.
@@deltacx1059 You won't see prices on those go done for a while. Larger APSC is not too user friendly for beginners though. 43rds or the 1in sensors are better for people starting out.
@@deltacx1059 you have to take flats and flats become more sensitive to user error. Often with my 43rds sensors I do not take any flats at all. Also things like sensor tilt or sag become more critical with larger sensors. There are boat loads of forum posts full of people struggling with these things.
Let me tell you about another “ecosystem”: ASCOM! About every piece of Equipment supports ASCOM. And NINA is not much more difficult than the ASIAIR. And now I have full freedom, can buy from each producer what they are best in and where they offer the best price/value without being locked into a world of average equipment, just for the sake of not investing a few hours of learning a software like NINA…,, What ZWO is superior is as you said marketing. And what I had to learn is that the really good producers of equipment often don’t do marketing, simply because they don’t have to…. What you state in this video may sound very appealing for beginners, but the price they pay is being totally locked in afterwards, and I do not think this is something to strive for.
Ascom has been around for a while. With alpaca though I feel like they are dropping the ball. Its been 4 years that that was supposed to be developed and still there is nothing to make it cross platform compatible..
They do have something but they have sorta shelved its development. You should contact them and tell them to get the led out and make it great lol. I did on their Facebook page.
I love ZWO so much I’ve got 4 ASIairs (1 Pro and 3 Minis) and I’m getting twin AM3s to go with my AM5. Oh, did you get my email Ben? I sent it to your work email, about a dewshield for the Quattro
You're worse than me... haha. I have +, and one Mini. I'd like to know if you can control more than one system at a time? It seems like you, and me could benefit.
@@mikehardy8247 I’ve got 4 telescopes to run lol. Ah if only that were the case but the mini has changed the game as far as I’m concerned. So cheap and light
One problem I have alway had and did not mention here is that components used in QHY cameras are all over the place. Making repairs down the road a lot harder.
QHY is like A Ferrari and ZWO is a Toyota...LOL Ben Stupid.....NOOOOOOOOOO! What I wished ZWO would do is open Source the ASI Air or let other EQ makers can buy a Lic to and we pay for an ASI Driver for a xyz hardware...
I don't really agree when you talk about the asi air etc. Sure its easy but you speak of this like if there's not anything like it out there. You know its all "stolen" right? Re-used to make their own product. Look at the early versions and you will see it was just an RPI to begin with. K-stars / indi! Zwo also locks you to their eco system, and even worse, doing so by abusing opensource products. Not trying to hate on Zwo tho. It is nice that the whole chain is simple and providing ppl that are lazy or don't want / able to learn an alternative.
True… ASIAIR is based on INDI… with the difference that it works all the time. There are long discussions on the ZWO forums and ZWO has been acknowledging this heritage. I have two other Raspberry Pis, one with just INDI and the other one with StellarMate. The experiences have been very mixed. StellarMate crashes or the connection gets lost or the drivers are buggy and the telescope or focuser just go off forever. I am on the indilib forum reporting the issues and more than half the time Jasem and other people from INDI confirm the bugs. So, yes, ASIAIR took the code and basis from INDI, improved it, made it stable closes up the ecosystem to make sure that within the system there is no frustration and pure joy for their users. I think this is great! It is not about being lazy, it is for people like me with busy work schedules to get most out of the few clear nights we have and not wasting time with driver updates, re-installations, hours on forums to figure out issues.
Its beginning might have been that way but it has advanced way beyond what RPI and Indi dose now. I have Indi actually loaded on one of my ASIAIR Pros. It lacks a lot of things.
I'll try not to tell my whole story. Got the original SW SA in 2017. Used it with a DSLR and lenses. Almost impossible to find Polaris, let alone star hop in bortle 9. Bought a QHY POLEMASTER (awsome, then, don't use it now) to facilitate good polar alignment. Last year got the SW SA GTI. The Synscan app was not that useful or accurate. Got a ZWO ASIAIR. This is the ticket. I call this little box "The Zen of astrophotography"! It just works! Basically after stumbling in the dark (haha) for 5 years of marginal success I now find and capture "quality" images. Once I got the ZWO ASIAIR, ended up diving in. AS1533MC PRO, guidescope and camera, on a modest 360 MM Doublet. On sale at Highpoin during NEAF, I even bought the EAF. I'm very happy with there ecosystem! I can bring it outside, polar align, and be imaging in under a half hour. Used to be ALOT l o n g e r.....
Bing Crosby sang, "Don't Fence Me In" and it's a sentiment and philosophy I prefer to ride with. I like to take time choosing what's best for me and what works together and here ASCOM is your best friend and all within that thin envelope of what I can afford. My astro-imaging equipment is a veritable United Nations of brands-an iOptron mount, ZWO main and guide cameras, Samyang lens, Pegasus power management and a StarTech USB over Ethernet hub allowing control of a session 25 metres down the garden through house walls and from the comfort of the living room. For software there's SharpCap Pro a UK company and PHD2 with the best user base around, Stellarium to provide a planetarium view of tbe local night sky with a home made background so I know when targets are actually visible and Pegasus Unity software for power control to mount, cameras and dew heaters. They all co-exist alongside each other and work.
So it"s horses for courses and I do agree with Ben on the subject of competition in the hobby.
Cheers,Steve
I like ZWO a lot but I am against ecosystems - I don't want to end up enclosed in a single brand at all! No way! That is an Apple thing and I will never again fall for it. So my advice: learn NINA for a few minutes (yes it is that easy) and be free! Thats why I never ever will buy an Asiair (again) which dictates what cameras, what focuser I should use - not for me.
You are right about the closed ecosystem of the ASIAIR… more or less… you can use any mount, though. But Apple is not a closed system. A very common and unfortunate mis-conception.
I think other tools became better in recent years, because ZWO showed everyone how easy it can be. Therefore, Ben’s statement « ZWO & the ASIAIR need more competition » is very valid. I have been trying to use StellarMate and INDIGOSKY… it is still super buggy, unstable and much more complicated to use.
I told myself that after master the ASI AIR I would go back to learning some of the more complex systems. But I never have. The simplicity is to easy to live with. Not yet seen any good reason to with to Nina or any of the other ones. They are all too complicated and do not work out of the box.
Thoroughly agree. I jumped down the rabbit hole of astrophotography three years ago at 67 years old. Simplicity and versatility were important to me. ZWO was a game changer with the ASI Air. I was able to enjoy the hobby from the get go without learning various software designed for a PC....NINA, PHD2, ASCOM, etc.
It is a backyard hobby for me....I'm not a professional nor am I an advanced expert. ZWO recognized that in my opinion. Create an Eco System that is user friendly.
thank you sir 😉
I told myself that after master the ASI AIR I would go back to learning some of the more complex systems. But I never have. The simplicity is to easy to live with. Not yet seen any good reason to with to Nina or any of the other ones. They are all too complicated and do not work out of the box.
totally agree@@TheNarrowbandChannel
I too really struggle with complicated software for imaging. There's nothing more frustrating than having your laptop start playing up when you're outside trying to capture data before the dreaded clouds roll in ( which in England happens a lot! ).
i was apart of the beta for adding sony mirrorless camera support. Everything that i brought up to them was acknowledged. not necessarily fixed but they acknowledged it. I asked them a few weeks back via the app. "do you have plans to add custom images to the planetarium for better orientation for your area ?" they emailed me back within 30 minutes saying it was in the pipeline but with no specific date. I have never had a company the size of ZWO be so responsive. They innovate, they test, they do quality assurance. I do wish i could get other astro cameras to work, but i also understand why they dont. the size of the company, and the scale to which they are building up and out. there is no way to support all cameras with the same quality and integration, and it hurts a growing companies bottom line for all the work they are doing. I think eventually they will be able to... zwo for what its worth is doing what it can and people who would never have done astrophotography are starting because they have provided solutions. anyone else excited to see a 585 cooled camera?
Yes they are always eager to improve themselves.
Just goes to show how important customer experience is.
My first dedicated astro camera was also a zwo asi178mm, although mine is the cool. Still using it today.. as a guide cam and a planetary cam :)
Well said! and I did manage to snag a cooled one too. Liked it that much I did.
Good thoughts and ideas - am in that exact position to decide the ecosystem - got the apo and gem28 - now time for computer Eaf guiding and cam. Much appreciated 👍
I agree with every single word you said! The ASIAIR Pro got me into Astrophotography. In 2019/20 I was looking for a simple standalone 12V-based system to run my scope and take pictures. The ZWO ecosystem allowed me to do this out-of-the box.
Stumbled across your channel, what can I say, subscribed and here to stay, keep it up mate!!
Awesome, thank you!
I'm just getting started (with my third, and deepest dive into astronomy) and went with the ASIAir for all the reasons you talk about. I've got an AS120MM guide camera already (easy choice), and a ASI533MC Pro Cooled (took longer to decide) on the way. Can't wait to set it all up with my SV550 80mm on a EQ6R Pro.
I've got to say how much I appreciate the level of the equipment available now that was out of reach of everyone just a few decades ago.
Welcome aboard! This hobby is exploding.
Great video! I'm not a fan boy I just tend to stick with one brand, I don't like having to learn the ins and outs of multiple brands. I chose NINA when I started and will likely stay with it as it has grown with me and I know it fairly well. When buying my first dedicated astro camera I ended up going with ZWO they had just come out with the ASI533MC Pro and it was the perfect choice for me at that time, now I have the ASI183MM Pro, ASI2600MM pro and the ASI294MM Pro all great camera's. The one that really surprised me is the 183, the images I get with that camera blow me away, the detail is amazing. It does have amp glow but it calibrates out easily and the price is very easy on the wallet. Now I want the AM5 mount but I already have two EQ6-R Pro's and one Ioptron CEM40.
Very well said. I think ZWO knocked it out of the park with the ASIAIR and it has made my astrophotography journey enjoyable. I also don't have the time to fight through multiple ecosystems and appreciate when people simplify things. The true art of engineering is to get things as simple as possible which perform the related tasks efficiently. I also wish that there was an ASIAIR alternative which was open to multiple manufacturers w.r.t. mounts and cameras and EAF's etc..
I agree 100%.
Cheers!
Cross compatibility or open source would be nice. As was mentioned on ASTROESCAPE, the EAF needs to be easily interchangeable on different setups! I bought a second one because it was too much hassle to interchange.
Eventually cross compatibility will come.
Hey Ben, thank you for the video and for the information as I too agree with you on the echo system being a major part in ones buying decision. Same thing in the software industry which is what I do for a living. I see the same concerns, questions and buying decisions being made in both arenas. I am not a ZWO shrill either but I do enjoy the ease of use and overall simplicity of both the documentation and product understanding. BTW, I too hope you are doing much better and, in the fight, to kick that cancers butt. God Willing. Many prayers sent your way.. God Bless...
Thanks man. I am close to the end of treatment.
I have a question from further down the road when this video was recorded.
Do you still feel this way? How do you feel about other companies such as Player One?
I have not changed my mind. No experience with Player one yet.
I have to agree, Ben! I find ZWO documentation to be outstanding and they seem to be one of the few companies that provides such detailed specs on their equipment, which makes it much easier to do research and make good choices. Sometimes it seems a bit limiting to be tied to their ecosystem, but I love the ease of use of everything and how things integrate well. How are you doing?
Couldn't agree more! Chemo is ruff but I think the cancer is shrinking.
Totally agree!
You know WHAT, I live in China, and Both ZWO and QHY are Chinese companies , and they do their things totally different, like 2 years ago, when I was 13 years old, I have trouble using QHY guide cameras, sent them an email and now, 1.5 years later, I checked the inbox, Nothing ! And I went to QHY's company, their CEO is very shy and quiet, playing a 3D printed harmonic prototype in front of me for about 15minutes, and watched their team grabing PCBs in and out.
So I jumped into ZWO's family, I gonna say, using the ASIAIR is a nice experence, And I'm using a SW Star Adventurer, and ask ZWO to make a framing option for NON GOTO , and guess what, just 4! 4 days , I can use the framing option without GOTO and just press refresh, It will tell me were the camera is point, and no need to star hopping what so ever. And QHY make a raspi pc called Starmaster which support all kinds of brand , but the UI just sucks. So for me or other teenagers, ZWO is a wise choice.😊
I really wish they would do something with the starmaster. Asiair needs competition.
I couldn't agree more Ben. I started with a laptop in astrophotography but soon realised that APT or Nina was actually unreliable. Whether it was plate solving or guide settings there was always something every now again that didn't work. So I bought all Zwo cameras and the asi air starting with the original to the latest plus and it just works !! I can't understand why some just love the complexity of a pc with all the separate softwares. Hope you're doing okay......I've also subscribed to your channel .
I am getting somewhat better. Cannot wait for this to be over so I can really get back to my old activity levels.
ZWO products are nice but are mostly beyond my budget. I'm just starting astrophotography and have already crowded my budget. Probably will use NINA since club members use it. Eventually I may purchase some ZWO products but not every last thing. If ZWO software was open source and compatible with other items I would be interested in it. A lot depends on how far down the rabbit hole I go. I agree with what you say but still sounds a bit loke an advert.
I love ZWOs spec guide and comparison website.
+1 to everything you said. I'm a relative novice in astrophotography, really only diving in fully this past February. After much research, I went with all ZWO gear (other than my scope) for the same reasons that you mention. A lot of people lament the fact that ASIAir only works with ZWO products - whereas I happen to think this is a "good thing". They can make it work perfectly, rather than developing for the "lowest common denominator" and doing nothing very well. Oftentimes I'm already 1 hour into shooting while others around me are still fiddling with getting their equipment to work!
Totally agree. Getting the system to run smooth together while keeping it closed has been worth it.
ZWO has the golden handcuffs with the ASIAIR.
I was really interested to hear what you had to say when I saw the video’s title. It turns out your rationale was identical to mine, and it all boiled down to one factor: simplicity. I acquired a Star Adventurer GTi last fall and had some modest success with it, but it involved using a Dell laptop (I’m all Apple ecosystem for everything else) to run Sharpcap, PhD2, and the SynScan app, not to mention the requirement to balance the payload in both DEC and RA. And then I had to put together a Rube Goldberg (i.e., absurdly complex) set of clamps and adapters to attach my OM System OM-1 camera mounted on the Olympus 100-400mm lens and as well as a ZWO guide scope and camera to a vixen style dovetail plate. Setup took 30-40 minutes, break down 20-30. And the equipment was heavy. So late this May I made a major decision because I’m 73 and the clock is ticking. So I spent a pretty penny and purchased the ZWO AM5 mount, the ZWO ASI533MC camera, the ZWO ASIAIR Plus, and the new Redcat 61 (not a ZWO product but it is the same color of red as the ZWOs!). I realized I would be committing to the ZWO ecosystem, but I had experience with the benefits of doing that sort of thing because ours is an all-Apple household. Things worked almost perfectly except for two defective usb cables that made my first light a bust. Simon at ZWO helped me sort this out and even told me who to contact at Agena Astro to get replacements! The defective usb cables are a fairly well-known problem with a couple months worth of ZWO products and which has apparently been rectified since, and Agena helped me replace the bad ones immediately and even went the extra mile to do so. Since then, things have worked smoothly, although the combination of excessive cloudiness and wildfire smoke have really made this a bad summer for astrophotography in many parts of North American. And the entire operation is much, much simpler than my previous setup. And lighter too. As I learn the AIR better, I’ll be giving it a try with my Celestron C6 OTA for planetary (got the ZWO ASI 678MC for that). Although I won’t be able to beat that ticking clock, I hope this new setup will keep me in the hobby for several more years. And on a totally different topic, I recently received an email from OM System with a five-minute video by an OM System ambassador about using the High Resolution modes on some OM System cameras. In it he explains how to use the Handheld High Resolution mode on a tripod to photograph the Milky Way without using a tracker. I tried it last night, and I really works!
If you read my posts here, you'll note that I went through a similar journey. I'm also 73. We have less time ahead of us than behind, and the asiair just helps save time and frustration. The Northern, and sometimes upper US states are plagued with wildlife smoke (strange that no Canadians are speaking up, it must be worse for them), In fact here in Wisconsin, the News just said it's going to come back the rest of the week. Another reason streamlining, to maximize imaging time is awsome. I'm happily using rhe SW SA GTI with a 360 MM Doublet, 533, zwo guide camera/scope, EAF and a few do-dads, with no weight, or balance issues. ASTROESCAPE has great learning video. The GTI works with asiair using a Q-MOD cable. See Peter Zelinka's videos on using a half cage and Arca clamps to mount guide rig on a DSLR. I just mount mine to the hot shoe.
In addition to simplicity and weight, another reason I made the switch to the ZWO equipment were several near catastrophe’s with my OM-1/Oly 100-400 mounted on the GTi (all due to user error). The last straw came when I purchased an inexpensive ZWO adapter to attach the ASI533MC to the Oly lens and found that I couldn’t remove the adapter! Thanks to Simon at ZWO and some TH-cam videos my wife found, I eventually removed the adapter after spending several hours using a hand-powered drill to create a channel through the adapter that allowed me to use a precision tweezers to get the adapter’s pin to release. This saved my $1,500 lens for other uses, primarily wildlife photography. Within a couple of days after dodging that bullet, I purchased all of the other ZWO equipment having decided to go the dedicated astro setup route for simplicity, weight savings, and to stop putting my OM-1 and Oly 100-400 lens at risk. By the way, keep your eyes open for the northern lights. The sun is in a really active phase this year and next, and the auroras have started being visible farther south than they are usually. That is, when the clouds and wildfire smoke allow them to be seen!
Dang I almost had that happen too. That lens release on the adapter is very sticky. Scared me a few times too.
@@TheNarrowbandChannel Ben, I thought I should add that a major motivator that led me to get the Oly f/5.0-6.3 100-400 lens was your recommendation of it for astrophotography in one of your videos a few years ago!
@@ABCMO-bl5pi Thanks. It is a nice Lens.
QHY makes some great cameras, my only cooled camera right now is a QHY. I would buy another QHY camera, but i might end up going with ZWO because of the USB Hubs, and ASIAir compatibility. USB Hubs are just nice for cable management, but ZWO locking their ecosystem down in the ASIAir is annoying, but the utility there is worth it for me. If QHY, or SVBony (or even if ZWO decided to simply open up the ASIAIR platform) were to come out with alternatives I’d probably buy them. But ZWO & PegasusAstro have the best (and most affordable) ecosystems. Primaluce too, but they’re a bit too expensive
i like youself, own a number of zwo cameras, i also own a blue risingcam IMX571...love it. I recently bought a player one Ares-M. I'd love to see you get your hands on one and really go through it's capabilities, build quality etc
I started with Nina etc and had it work once, I then saw the AA+ at a star party when they were trialling it with the public. I went home and ordered one the next day, I have not looked back..
Nice presentation good food for thought ,
Excellent points. I’m ZWO all the way. I was up and running last night with my PA in 4 minutes and shot the witches broom and andromeda in my 1.5 hour session. They make Astro so much easier and seamless, clear skies to all of you forever and a day🙏💕
Technically, the ASIAir has competitors (PrimaLuceLab's Eagle, Ikarus' StellarMate Pro and WondererAstro's Wondererbox Pro are the main ones that come to mind). They are just far more expensive. Even though I would love to try the Eagle, I'll never be able to afford it. But I can afford an ASIAir and know it will work with my set up.
They are also harder to use. A lot harder. I have experimented with two that you listed.
Your video depicts the reasons whyI also went with Zwo
There are three things that make a product, service, quality and price and you really only need two of those to be successful. Clearly they missed the boat on service and price, good call.
So brother, I'm about to take a break, some of the news has been out already, more to come soon. But, on your point, ZWO is doing more than the rest asking us to show the gear. I wholeheartedly wish the others would do the same and innovate.
Hope you can get back into it soon.
@@TheNarrowbandChannel I sent you a text explaining it all! I hope all is going well with you too man.
ZWO definitely does have their problems, but they're satisfactory when it comes to actual performance.
Another great video. I agree 100%. ZWO customer service is great, they get back to you really quick.
Totally agree!
How's the Player One cameras?
Have not tried any yet. Look well designed though.
I'm just getting started in astronomy and need more stuff. Typically if something is really popular in any hobby I go another way. But as a neophyte, I see the steep learning curve and need stuff that works. I want to do astronomy, not part time IT tech work. Good review. It definitely helped confirm my conclusions thus far.
Glad it helped you out.
I used to have a client whose slogan was "if we don't look after our customers someone else will" Sounds like ZWO adopt a similar philosophy. I use a lot of Altair gear and it works fine, but here in the UK it is generally a bit more expensive than ZWO and the eco system is nowhere near. I have to say if I was starting from scratch now I would seriously consider going with ZWO. As far as cameras go I don't see anything between, say, a 533 cooled sensor camera from one manufacturer to another as it will have the same sensor and probably the same basic electronic circuitry regardless. There may be some mechanical differences such as fan mounting arrangements etc. But for most people this would not be an issue. It is a pity that no one seems to produce an ASIair type control unit that has an open eco system for around the same price (I have an Eagle LE but that's at least twice the price of the ASIair)
"if we don't look after our customers someone else will" a great motto. I think Peter Drucker started that one or something similar.
One more proof that it isn't pure technology that sells products, but good marketing/sales support.
ZWO also started working (years ago) towards building an ecosystem (based on the ASIair) and trying to make life easier for consumers (because, let's face it, we're consumers, not engineers).
QHY may be better quality, but I still have trouble understanding their filter wheel systems and adapters and screwing this and that according to the various videos and manuals. Astrophotography doesn't *have* to be too complex (it's already a major technical and financial challenge, hence my interest mostly on planetary imaging)
Yes I agree. Simpler is better and this hobby I already complicated enough.
Great Video! You look great bro. JD
Thank you so much 👍
Hey if it works it works. ASIAIR even works with my Nikon Z6ii. I just wish ZWO's sensors were flat and not slightly tilted.
That is interesting to know about he Z6ii.
I cannot agree more! :)
Thank's!
I think ZWO is making a quite good job.
Sexy stuff which is working very well for its purpose.
For myself I have fun in exploring new tech and it is a part of the journey for me. (N.I.N.A ...)
Therefore both ways have their reason to exist.
But ZWO is definitely pushed this hobby for newbies like me a lot!
br and cs
Good to know that I chose the right path (even without all the great info you provided just now) ZWO! Yes, I'm locked into ZWO and I am completely fine with that! Great video as always! Thanks!
I agree. The CEO of ZWO (Sam) is very approachable and does fullfil his promises. I went mini pc and went back to Asiair pro and plus too. I can open the roof and just image whenever I want with very little issues.
Not sure if I have ever met Sam but everyone says good things about him.
well said i agree 👊👍
I wish zwo gave more control over high gain mode. Same sensor from different camera manufacturers perform differently. Watch Cuiv's recent video on the 585 and the capability Touptek appear to have extracted from it. I have a zwo asi585mc but I have no confidence zwo will bring the hdr mode to it. :(
I'll have to finish Cuiv's video about it to see this.
I love this hat
Thanks!
3 words. Drivers, drivers, drivers. I've been through this myself. They can have the biggest and best sensors ever, if the thing doesn't work with my computer or software, because the drivers are terrible or even none-existent. That's when they become just an expensive paperweight, and I already had a few of those.
ZWO has the best native drivers, period. It's that simple. Whether I use the Asiair, or decide with Windows or Linux, native drivers are ready, available and work. Unfortunately I cannot say the same thing about QHY or Touptek or the others. Just the other day, I needed extension pieces for my QHY camera. Guess what.. they don't have them, so I had to go get ZWO 21mm and a 15.5mm combo, that got me to 55mm backfocus. They take out all the guess work, trying to find simple things as pre-measured extension pieces . How not other companies doing this, sort of escapes me!
I also have 3 ZWO cameras , some guiders too, I feel no regret getting them they all work as intended. I cannot say the same thing about other brands I also own and gathering dust on a shelf. Now, ZWO starts to sell scopes too, as well the new robotic mini scope. One thing I can bet for sure. Their scopes will be nicely optimized and easy to connect, and accessories available to connect their cameras. There is no doubt about that.
That is a great summary of my experience too.
Why didn't you by player one?
At the time they did not exist.
Yo you gottta cricket in your house. Shit I thought it was here.
Unfortunately there is not one company that fits me. But I found some solutions that do work for me and some brands I will stay with.
For example my telescopes and mounts are Skywatcher. Are they best? No. Are they the cheapest? No. For me at least the balance is right though.
ASIAir? Not my solution but Astroberry works for me. ZWO cameras? Yes I like them. I have multiple ASI 1600MM that still work great for me and wont be changed? ZWO guiding cameras? I have two of them and additional cameras by SVBony because I like them too. Also ZWO is missing a camera rotator for me but the companies that do make one are not an option for me. But I get your point and it is great to have on company you can rely on.
We should be seeing the ZWO camera rotator soon. Should be a solid one.
@@TheNarrowbandChannel I heard the rumors. Really curious about it already.
5:55 I want competition in the budget area, maybe sub 800$.
For like cameras? There are some in that range. ZWO used to sell some like that but they have very small sensors.
@@TheNarrowbandChannel there are but nothing that has a bigger sensor, for anything APS-C i feel like the only real option is a normal DSLR or mirrorless.
@@deltacx1059 You won't see prices on those go done for a while. Larger APSC is not too user friendly for beginners though. 43rds or the 1in sensors are better for people starting out.
@@TheNarrowbandChannel i started with a APS-C camera and haven't seen any issue I would link to sensor size, what makes the less user friendly?
@@deltacx1059 you have to take flats and flats become more sensitive to user error. Often with my 43rds sensors I do not take any flats at all.
Also things like sensor tilt or sag become more critical with larger sensors. There are boat loads of forum posts full of people struggling with these things.
Let me tell you about another “ecosystem”: ASCOM! About every piece of Equipment supports ASCOM. And NINA is not much more difficult than the ASIAIR. And now I have full freedom, can buy from each producer what they are best in and where they offer the best price/value without being locked into a world of average equipment, just for the sake of not investing a few hours of learning a software like NINA…,, What ZWO is superior is as you said marketing. And what I had to learn is that the really good producers of equipment often don’t do marketing, simply because they don’t have to…. What you state in this video may sound very appealing for beginners, but the price they pay is being totally locked in afterwards, and I do not think this is something to strive for.
Ascom has been around for a while. With alpaca though I feel like they are dropping the ball. Its been 4 years that that was supposed to be developed and still there is nothing to make it cross platform compatible..
Still waiting for QHY to come out with something asiair-esque 😐
They do have something but they have sorta shelved its development. You should contact them and tell them to get the led out and make it great lol. I did on their Facebook page.
Hi Ben: Kevin here.
I have seen several signs of intelligence.
I love ZWO so much I’ve got 4 ASIairs (1 Pro and 3 Minis) and I’m getting twin AM3s to go with my AM5. Oh, did you get my email Ben? I sent it to your work email, about a dewshield for the Quattro
You're worse than me... haha. I have +, and one Mini. I'd like to know if you can control more than one system at a time? It seems like you, and me could benefit.
@@mikehardy8247 I’ve got 4 telescopes to run lol. Ah if only that were the case but the mini has changed the game as far as I’m concerned. So cheap and light
I think I did but may have lost it in all this chemo stuff that is going on. What's your name I can look for it.
@@TheNarrowbandChannel no worries Ben I know you’re going through a lot. It’s Aaron, I had the VW van at Cherry Springs
I feel like camera bluid quality qhy wins..... But zwo have asiair and win with that
One problem I have alway had and did not mention here is that components used in QHY cameras are all over the place. Making repairs down the road a lot harder.
IMO, QHY's web site is horrible! They even play coy by not posting many of their prices.....
It's always breaking down too. Really a company like them should hire a better web developer.
QHY is like A Ferrari and ZWO is a Toyota...LOL Ben Stupid.....NOOOOOOOOOO! What I wished ZWO would do is open Source the ASI Air or let other EQ makers can buy a Lic to and we pay for an ASI Driver for a xyz hardware...
According to ZWO they have not implemented other brands because the other brands would not work with them.
QHY is just plain weird...I don't even like their Polemaster
That pole master was a hit at first but now you never hear about it. Software made it obsolete I think.
I don't really agree when you talk about the asi air etc. Sure its easy but you speak of this like if there's not anything like it out there. You know its all "stolen" right? Re-used to make their own product. Look at the early versions and you will see it was just an RPI to begin with. K-stars / indi!
Zwo also locks you to their eco system, and even worse, doing so by abusing opensource products.
Not trying to hate on Zwo tho. It is nice that the whole chain is simple and providing ppl that are lazy or don't want / able to learn an alternative.
True… ASIAIR is based on INDI… with the difference that it works all the time. There are long discussions on the ZWO forums and ZWO has been acknowledging this heritage. I have two other Raspberry Pis, one with just INDI and the other one with StellarMate. The experiences have been very mixed. StellarMate crashes or the connection gets lost or the drivers are buggy and the telescope or focuser just go off forever. I am on the indilib forum reporting the issues and more than half the time Jasem and other people from INDI confirm the bugs. So, yes, ASIAIR took the code and basis from INDI, improved it, made it stable closes up the ecosystem to make sure that within the system there is no frustration and pure joy for their users. I think this is great! It is not about being lazy, it is for people like me with busy work schedules to get most out of the few clear nights we have and not wasting time with driver updates, re-installations, hours on forums to figure out issues.
Its beginning might have been that way but it has advanced way beyond what RPI and Indi dose now. I have Indi actually loaded on one of my ASIAIR Pros. It lacks a lot of things.
You are honest and I love that ! I would have said y try he same thing. Thanks for having an opinion and showing some guts.
Always!
Spot on, as usual.