Gotham Knights Critique - Shadow of the Bat
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 มิ.ย. 2024
- I don’t like Gotham Knights.
It’s a brittle, hollow shell, made cynically, written farcically, engineered poorly, and designed not with FUN in mind, but an always-turning grindstone labeled “Player Engagement.” It’s borderline irredeemable. Nothing about the game is engaging, interesting, unique, or even functional. This was WB Montreal’s opportunity to step out of the shadow of the bat. It should have been better than this.
LORE DUMP
• What the hell happened...
Thumbnail by Zoltiboi
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TWITTER
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PATREON
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TIMESTAMPS
00:00:00 - Introduction
00:07:19 - Cardboard Heroes
00:28:46 - Getting Around
00:42:24 - Fun With Friends
00:53:51 - City of Grind
01:10:23 - Number Go Up
01:24:00 - Three Villains Walk into a Bar
01:39:06 - The One-Two Punch
01:52:05 - Gotham City
02:09:16 - The Court of Owls
02:22:44 - Missing the Point
SUICIDE SQUAD: KILL THE JUSTICE LEAGUE CRITIQUE - DEAD WEIGHT
• Suicide Squad: Kill th...
BATMAN: ARKHAM KNIGHT CRITIQUE - LEGACY OF THE BAT
• Arkham Knight Critique...
FOOTAGE/REFERENCES
1 - Mulderville USA - SDCC 2022 Gotham Knights Patrick Redding: • SDCC 2022 Gotham kni...
2 - Screen Rant Plus - Gotham Knights SDCC 2022: • Gotham Knights: San Di...
3 - ComicBook.com - Gotham Knights teases new Batman characters, deeper DC story for Bruce Wayne: • Gotham Knights Tease N...
4 - GG Recon - Gotham Knights Review: www.ggrecon.com/reviews/gotha...
5 - Tony Guerrero - Patrick Redding Interview: Gotham Knights: • SDCC 2022: Gotham Knig...
6 - IGN - Gotham Knights: Creating a more dangerous Harley Quinn: • Gotham Knights: Creati...
7 - Playstation Lifestyle - Warner Bros. New Projects will have heavy emphasis on live service: www.playstationlifestyle.net/...
8 - Kinda Funny Games - Gotham Knights Review: A big disappointment or just okay?: • Gotham Knights Reviews...
9 - CBR.com - Gotham Knights: Marty & Redding introduce their surprising and beautiful Gotham City: www.cbr.com/gotham-knights-fl...
10 - VGC - Warner Bros receives criticism for patenting the Nemesis System: www.videogameschronicle.com/n...
11 - Eurogamer - Naughty Dog says The Last of Us multiplayer game needs "more time": www.eurogamer.net/naughty-dog...
12 - LRM Online - America Young and Ann Lemay interview for Gotham Knights SDCC 2022: • America Young and Ann ...
13 - Whedonopolis - SDCC 2022: Gotham Knights VG - Ann Lemay (Narrative Director), America Young (Batgirl) P1: • SDCC 2022: Gotham Kni...
14 - The Games Entertainer - Marvel's Midnight Suns Get to Hunter Room Customization : • Marvel's Midnight Suns...
15 - DC: Gotham Knights | The Bat Family | Behind the Scenes - • Gotham Knights | The B...
16 - DC - Gotham Knights - Court of Owls: Behind The Scenes | DC FanDome 2021: • Gotham Knights - Court...
17 - Warner Bros. Games UK & Ireland - Gotham Knights | Behind the Scenes: • Gotham Knights | Behin...
18 - Fora.tv - David Haddad: What's next for Warner Bros. : • David Haddad: What’s N...
19 - rampage.tv - Gotham Knights| Bugs, Compliations, Funny Moments: • Video
20 - MrMattyPlays - The TRUTH behind Xbox, Bethesda & Redfall...: • The TRUTH Behind Xbox,...
21 - rampage.tv - Redfall | Bugs Compilation: • Video
22 - IGN - Gotham Knights Interview - Summer of Gaming 2022: • Gotham Knights Intervi...
MUSIC (in order of use)
1 - Kryptos - Titan
2 - Jimmy Svensson - Dark Blood
3 - Michael FK - Innocence
4 - Ikoliks - Hypnotized
5 - Yehezkel Raz - Nightfall Hymn
6 - Tamuz Dekel - Vapor Fingers
7 - Tamuz Dekel - Blue Being
8 - Master Minded - Deep Dive
9 - Sensitive Detective - Clouds (Instrumental Version)
10 - sero - Air
11 - Flint - Too Many Pixels
12 - DJ Taz Rashid - Morning Light
13 - Borrtex - Rising of the Sun
14 - Buddha Kid - Vacuum
15 - iTMR - Fool for You
#batman #gothamknights - เกม
Thanks for being here! As always, I'd MASSIVELY appreciate if you liked the video and subscribed to the channel. The next critique will be on something completely different that I've wanted to talk about for a while, but before that there will be another Noobus Humanus and another session of Lore Dump.
Subscribe to Lore Dump here: www.youtube.com/@LoreDump
Can't wait for this completly different thing, videos are great but I'm not a batman fan
love your Arkham videos and you are far more into the lore than I, which perhaps is why I did not mind Gotham Knights, it is obviously not as good as the other 4 games (yes I included origins) but purchasing it for £20 new certainly helped reduce my expectations and playing mainly as batgirl it had enough similarities to the mainline games to give me a couple of weeks enjoyment.
Still a great video as always
I'm not subscribed to any channels, and I never click like. But this deserved both just for existing, not even watched it yet!
Kinda off topic, but if we can recommend a game series that is amazing, try playing the Zero Escape trilogy.
I think in some ways its not a bad game but its also very very forgettable and does nothing new which is worse in my opinion. Its also everything wrong with open world games. I can't get past the writing and dialogue in Gotham Knights. Its awful. There was a lot of potential for a good game.
I also wonder if the people that enjoyed the game are newer gamers. Been playing games for 30 years and when a game is just mid and boring. I'm more harsh on a game. Plus. I guess Arkham series spoiled us with how good they are. and this game can't any compare.
Nearly three hours reviewing a game so mediocre that people forgot it existed five minutes after release is what I call dedication.
It's actually pretty fun. I wouldn't listen to this dude.
Games boring, he's pretty spot on. Everything Gotham Knights does, has been done infinitely better elsewhere.
He's not reviewing any game but a Batman game.
@@chungawumba2637 It is mediocre, if you hate Batman lore. This game is the CW version of Batman universe.
Yes, THIS VIDEO is more of a waste of time than Gotham Knights itself...
Bruce Wayne suicide bombing the court of owls is the absolute funniest way they could have ended this game
Mygod
or jason todd if you want to give him , if he felt he died and wants to save the others? But it ending wit ha fake out death. I mean that could be funny and in character?! Ha you think i died, , ok it might be funny.
The Starbucks down the block from another Starbucks thing is actually quite realistic. In Vancouver there’s two kitty corner to each other at the intersection of Robson and Thurlow
DAMMIT
yeah, i've seen 3 starbucks within a mile of one another going through tennessee as well
Can confirm. When I worked for the company, we’d sometimes need to drive to other locations to pick up emergency supply of important products my location had run out of, and it was nearly always less than a ten minute drive TOTAL
My local mall has 3 separate starbucks on 3 out of 5 floors
In Providencia, Santiago, Chile, you can find one Starbucks every 500-700 meters 😅
What an absolute power play by Monty with releasing this on the 8th year anniversary of Arkham Knight
Holy shit that makes me feel old
@@zeroattentiongaming820 Same here, I remember standing in line on opening night for the collector’s edition and staying up just to play, only to pass out and play it in the early morning after because at the time Xbox download speeds sucked
@@dgamer0949Back when waiting in line for a game at midnight was actually a thing
You're lying... it can't have been eight years since I played Knight :')
I remember laughing when I rode the bat cycle for the first time. They added those wind effects to the side of the screen as if you were speeding through the streets of Gotham, but at no point does that thing go past like 20 mph
Done years ago when the dumpsterfire of Inquisition rolled onto stage. Alternatively you can have the load-screen simulator Shitfield.
AAA at it's finest.
@@TheKueiJin its been done forever. skyrim horses are only about 20% faster than the on ground equivalents. So a horse sprint is 20% faster than a ground sprint. a horse run 20% faster than a player run. If you spend any amount of time gathering herbs off the side of the road or any other activity which requires you to get off and back on your horse, you'll be moving slower overall.
@@ijones36 horses in Skyrim, while not as fast than those of Tamriel, are more hea... I mean they...
Look, jokes aside, you tell me how you got over that one area that was too steep for you to jump/run over? You had your horse. And with Aardvark running through a dungeon on horseback became a thing, and when considering the extent of Blackreach, I'd say that was a good thing. Compare that to... Having 5% difference when sprinting on horseback instead of just running on horseback. With the added benefit of getting stuck on all types of shit on the road, OR BEING LIMITED TO A NARROW ROAD.
Am I wrong?
I wanted to pitch my ingame universe theory for why some of the riddler trophies are easy to come by. In essence, The Riddler doesn't do his own physical labor. He's not going to go schlep across Gotham making and setting up trophy traps. He has henchmen for that. And some henchmen probably just said, "He's not going to notice," and place all of the trophies in easy to reach brainlet places because they just can't be bothered to follow through.
Additionally, it would make his frustration make more sense because he designed much harder puzzles and traps, just to have some henchmen say, "Screw this, I'm keeping the cash for the contractors and putting it on a single story building roof."
Meanwhile, The Riddler is watching connections to Trophies disappear thinking Batman's getting past insanely deadly obstacles.
I want this to be cannon. It makes perfect sense 😂
This is honestly the only thing that would make riddler trophy hunting make sense. Good job!
Jason Todd's hoodie string will never not make me laugh
53:14 DeadPool mask
Its such an easy thing for anyone hes fighting to grab onto
@@cheezy8492oh my Jason, is the physics engine fucked or are you just happy to see me?
the funny thing is: Hes shaved which is good cuz hair can be pulled.
So hes inconsisten
I’m confused. Is the new hideout brighter than the bat cave or not?? I wish Alfred would have addressed this
He does state that it is brighter than the Batcave.
I was also kind of confused about Jason Todd. In the original story he was killed and later brought back to life by the Lazarus Pit but I don't recall them ever mentioning if that happened throughout this game. Maybe they'll update it in the future with a couple hundred lines of dialogue discussing Jason and the Lazarus Pit, but until then it'll just be speculation and up to interpretation
That place is quite remarkable. It is certainly brighter than the bat cave
Dude she is joking!
So Desperate to correct someone@@thebluedragon07
@@thebluedragon07 Source??
You know, there's a kernel of a great story setup in the Freeze stuff and it's a shame they didn't take it. Like, with Victor/Nora broken up because she couldn't forgive his other criminal behaviors and Victor just, staying in his pain, he could be a really cool dark reflection for Todd about being frozen in the worst moments of our suffering and choosing to stay there because we know it vs. taking the harder road to recovery. Or it could make a cool Dick & Barbara story, where the 2 of them talk about their relationship and how it fell apart, and setup for whatever it will look like next in this post Batman world. Like, there's some real meat on those bones they could tap, but they just don't and that's a shame.
I know this is Months later, but had another thought of why Mister Freeze would want to freeze Gotham. Maybe he wants to make a world for he and Nora to enjoy together. He can't leave his suit without overheating, so he'll freeze Gotham so that he may finally to her hand in his. He's a man who would burn (or freeze) the world for just a single tender moment, a single touch from the woman he loves. Or maybe it is even more desperate than that. Nora left him and he wants to show his everlasting love for her by turning Gotham into a winter wonderland, commenting about how Nora loved to skate, or stroll under gentle snowfall.
2:02:10 as a long time external QA tester I can say that most of the developers do not care about our feedback. We are there to find issues, report them and get told "it's fine, no one will notice" and then get blamed when people notice after release.
God, their Jason Todd looks so weird. Why does he look like a football star who walked out of a car accident, stg, he feels like corporate asked "What if Knuckles was a person?"
10/10 comment I’m gutted I didn’t think that. Such a good phrase!
Arkham Origins was written by freelancers hired from outside the company. I don't know if they were ever brought back but they did incredible work on Origins.
They really did such a great job. I love origins. I loved its story. It had such good world building, character development, i really like the character designs, voice acting, the feeling of the environment, the detective work, combat, etc. idk why it wasn't better received..
@@benmcreynolds8581
No matter how good you are, you're. Not. Rocksteady.
@@thereseemstobeenanerror1219 i agree, i just think Arkham origins is a great addition. Rocksteady made the traversal movement mechanics so well in Arkham Knight. I wish the story & characters were better because the environment & everything else they made was so good. I just really hope we can get more Batman games. I don't want them to give up on making them just so they can make these crappy gimmicky 4 character games that are built to grind stats
@@thereseemstobeenanerror1219 I liked origins more than city
"...a complicated romantic relationship with Dick"
Me too girl.
Also giggled at "Dick jokes about Jason's death."
So, with the complaint about Cobblepot's sidequests: Anyone else now want a game where you play as a generic henchman for a supervillain?
Maybe you could pick up themed tech from your boss, or stolen from other gangs, raising you from "Dude in a yellow and black jacket with a pipe" to "The second in command with his unique Bee Gun and bullet proof bee wings!" or something.
Maybe it could be a directed story of promotions and betrayals, or something more open involving factions and choices...
Man, it's a real shame I never do anything with my ideas...
I feel like that idea could also work as a Killer Moth game.
Oh, that's a cool idea. I also thought of a game idea involving a lot of batman villains where it's almost like a survival game. You work as an arkham asylum staff trying to survive when the arkham inmates breakout. I thought that this would be a really cool survival horror game.
@@blumae1170 Hey! I've thought of that idea too! "Arkham Horror", I called it.
I was thinking a med student who was visiting when a mass breakout occured, to explain how you wouldn't know the layout, details on each of the villains, or any staff NPCs who survived.
Sounds like a Henchman 21 rpg
If your GTAO character was in other games.
It might be interesting to have a game or story where Penguin really did just say "ah the hell with it" one day, served his time, and really did get out of the game, only to get pulled into the Batfam shenanigans because...well, you know people, Oswald, you know the people who know the people. Through one clandestine meeting after another he becomes sort of an anti-Jim Gordan, always suspected of playing his own game but never actually doing it. Doesn't have to last forever, of course, but for awhile he serves as a kind of crabby, reluctant uncle to the Batfamily.
I believe there's one story where Batman dies and Penguin sorta takes up the mantle. He uses his money to clean up crime in Gotham and kill most of the main rogues. Really thought they were going for that here but I guess not, he's just standard criminal Cobblepot
I first read the Court of Owls story on my old Nook tablet. Needless to say, the perspective changes on a digital device made the scene...memorable.
TheGCRust: look dad! You have to turn the page to read the story! Dad: Thats very nice son.
Later in Life
TheGCRust: look Nook Tablet! You have to turn the page to read the story!
Nook Tablet: *corrects page* silly you your reading the page backwords!
Honestly the moment you said there are ‘eLeMeNtAl’ attacks in a game set in the Batman world I realised how godawful this game must be. Terrific work as always
Actually it's not that bad of a game, it does get repetitive and predictable, but it's actually a fun game.
It's definitely not a bad game, just doesn't live up to its arkham trilogy predecessor
@@thebluedragon07 "Ackuhlee" is also the reason why the game is in this state to begin with. When it keeps getting watered-down each time and people just "Oh, at least it has some [insert whatever]" then at this point future games of the same franchise would only regress back to the state being able to boot the game up will be the only thing a game does in the next 10 to 20 years.
E@@thebluedragon07I just heard a three hours video essay on explicitly why nearly every facet of this game from the concept to the gameplay are lazy, half baked and a symbol of everything wrong with triple A action games. It spits on its comic origins and does nothing with the rich world rock steady left behind. You're going to have to do better than. "It's good trust me." You can enjoy it, and it be bad. I LKKE sword art online, it's beautifully animated and the world was cool. But objectively that shit is BAD because of it's multitude of other plot based failings.
@@Th3F1rebird Sometimes, a bad thing does enough right to be good bad. SAO's opening episode was good enough to float the series for a long while. Genuinely good introduction, can't lie.
My go-to good bad thing is the Neptunia games. It is some weeb trash, it knows it's weeb trash, and it just has fun with it. I'll take the big dumb anime game about a literalized console war over a dishwater dull Batman grindathon any day.
The missed potential here is just.....heartbreaking. As someone who's worked for a 'creative' company that constantly undermined scripts with trend jacking and producer led mandate, It hits.
I immediately lost interest in the game when I saw damage numbers in the gameplay trailer. That told me everything I needed to know.
I'm sorry but is Barbara Gordon wearing a bat symbol necklace in her civilian clothes?
Same, I’m glad they showed that trailer helped me save my money
@@ouij I'm guessing it's common enough
Same
Seriously that's one of the biggest red flags to me. I hate how common it is in a lot of modern games
Ya know, having you fight as Batman in the beginning would have also been a great way to have you play with all the toys and then take them away. Batman has years if not decades of training with all the things he taught them and their tools, and once it's over it makes real sense why it's a struggle as the kids, because none of them are him, just pieces broken off that are growing in their own way, and in some ways better than him, and in other ways worse, and that together they can take this now.
Man, now I'm getting grumpy at this game all over again lol.
Indeed
Reminds me of Angry Birds Epic.
Batman with dual guns lol
"Niel bought Gotham Knights just so we could play some of the game together.
Niel has given up on Gotham Knights." Cracked me up so bad😂😂😂
i love how this game is so bad that monty found himself agreeing with the kinds of people who talk about the woke agenda, despite hating those people so much that he had to make absolutly clear he wasnt on the same team with them.
Oh no, trust me, we are on the same team.
@@theevilgoodExcept he's not....?
@@kakyointhemilfhunter4273 except we are. Because being woke isn't why this game is bad. The dog shit storytelling, repetitive gameplay loop, and awful design make this game bad.
So yeah. Same team. Our politics play no role here
@@theevilgood Oh, I do agree then. I mistook your comment as implying Monty is one of those guys
There's something that a lot of people tend to forget about Tim Drake that made him different from other Robins: unlike Dick and Jason, Tim actually *had* a parent outside of Bruce. He had a father who eventually learned of his superhero identity and let him continue fighting crime until he was murdered by Captain Boomerang. After that, he was taken in by Bruce.
But now Tim loses Bruce to Ra's al Ghul, making this the 2nd time he's lost a parent at the hands of a supervillain. A better story would have leaned into this grief and made him more darker and brooding (just like in the comics), with Red Hood trying his best to steer Tim away from that mindset, since it's the same one that led Red Hood down a dark path that separated him from the Bat Family. Then the two could build a relationship based on that.
It's just mind-blowing how this game introduces avenues that could help explore the relationship between these characters, but actively attempts to circumvent them in lieu of weaker story beats. The lead writer should have read actual Batman comics with these characters before writing for this game. No one seems to act like themselves here.
RIP Pops. Imagine getting packed up by Captain Boomerang. Could never be me.
....Boomerang of all people lol
One of the lamest villains.
@@johnynoway9127It was a weird story arc. From my memory, Captain Boomerang was tricked into killing Tim's father, while he was given a gun to kill Captain Boomerang; the two just end up killing each other, and I think the Atom's wife was behind it for some reason...
The thing about live service (or high retention) games is that 9 times out of 10 if the developer sticks to updating and maintaining it it’s bound to pay off. Bungie stuck with destiny for 10 years before getting bought by Sony and you can’t talk abt this kind of game without no man’s sky getting mentioned. But if it has a rocky start and the publisher sees it doesn’t make them destiny money immediately they’ll pull the plug on it, bc the line didn’t go up as fast as they’d like. (Also love the “we are not on the same team” bit)
There's nothing quite like listening to a video like this and agreeing with every aspect of the critique, especially having worked on Gotham Knights for its entire production. Also, there was a tiny fraction of staff who worked on Origins that also worked on GK.
You worked on the game? Or are you being sarcastic
I so badly want single player Batman games to come back and never go away! They could make Batman games about any story in the Batman universe. I loved Arkham origins. I really hope these games make a comeback! They are some of my favorite games that i replay all the time
I actually loved this game when I initially started playing it. The combat was slower than the Arkham series, but to me it made sense since these are newer heroes and especially since I was playing as Red Hood, it felt like I was hitting hard. The story actually had me captivated with the Court and all of the cool bits of side lore that I was gleaming from the emails and conversations with NPCs, especially surrounding Gordon's death. But then I hit a road block where the story forced me to interrogate random criminals out in the city to progress the story, and you have to interrogate specific members of a gang, with only one member being available for interrogation in that location, and if it just so happens that you can fight around them because there are 6 heavy enemies all smacking you around and you accidentally knock your target out, you're SOL. Go back to the Belfry, start a new night, and hope and pray that you get another spawn that fits the requirements. I put down the game that night and haven't touched it since. Glad I got it at such a steep discount cuz good lord had I paid full price, I may have gone the way of the Monty.
The Way of the Monty will now be a 2024 t-shirt thank you
@@MontyZander Hell yeah, I'll have to get me one when it drops. Can't wait for it, or the next Lore Dump 🤘
"And I'll never talk about it again."
I'll keep counter whenever the Suicide Squad video comes out in two or three years.
Fr
Jason Todd: Hey...did you know when I used to be dead?
Not much feedback from me this time, except as someone whose favorite Tim look is legitimately the n52 Red Robin costume, I would like to shake your hand for being the first person I’ve seen who also likes the wings.
They’re fun! They’re bright! They’re something uniquely Tim’s own, which both compliment his fighting style and give him a unique way of maneuvering any given situation! The segmented red cape is a *good look!* But all I ever hear is, “lol, showgirl-wings!” like that’s all the costume has going on, and I’m sorry, *that’s* where people draw the line for what’s ‘too silly’ in superhero costumes?!?!
(…Sorry, I’m a little salty.)
I JUST got done binging the other Arkham retrospectives. I greatly enjoyed the quality of them, and appreciated the unrivaled quality that only improved through your series. I haven’t had to look forward to this for long, and I am greatly thankful.
Honestly, the worst parts of these massive developer turnovers are that now the majority of the people who made the great games we love from the studios we supported are now gone.
They might make another Arkham game, but it won't be the people who made it originally and it won't be as good as they made it. They might make another dishonored game, but it won't be the same either. Executives have pushed all of the most talented devs out of the spaces they were most cherished in for an extra buck. Pitiful.
Jason and Tim have definitely resolved their differences in the current comics for a while now actually
This video is quite remarkable. It's certainly brighter than the Batcave.
Thank you for this comment
Any time I hear of Any game as "Good with friends", I remember when I used to get roped into League of Legends, Bot matches, with friends.
ANYTHING can be fun with friends.
That garbage was something to do with my hands, and occasionally fill dead air, while I hung out with a couple people and talked shit about our day.
I genuinely would have adored a batman game (or batman adjacent game) with the nemesis system like you described. Its sad that warner bros has an exclusivity on it and refuses to do anything with it.
Didn't WB work on Arkham origins? Could they do a single player Batman game with that feature? That would be awesome especially with the list of awesome villains
@@benmcreynolds8581my comment is phrased a bit weird but WB do own it they just refuse to use it on anything
I find it interesting that there's constant references to the New 52 in this video. At the time, the New 52 was seen as an unnecessary reboot of DC's continuity that fell very short of what came before it. This game is a spiritual successor to the Arkham games that also falls short of what came before it.
About that idea where you can dynamically switch between knights being too complex. There was this little indie game nobody knows about called grand theft auto 5 that had the same sort of system throughout most of the story mode. Obviously its a tiny bit more complicated but if a ps3 game that came out literally almost a decade ago, they could figure it out.
You've covered the arkham series time to see what you have to say about it's "successor". All I can say is that they succeeded at separating themselves from arkham in every metric 😂😂😂. The team that made origins is largely gone after so many canceled projects.
I never thought about the WB being able to use the Nemesis system. My brain almost short-circuited when I realized they could've but didn't use it.
This has probably already been said but I imagine the reason you don't play as Batman in the beginning is because it might immediately leave you wondering why you'd wanna play as anyone else. I'm not saying that's a *good* reason, but it sounds like something the devs might consider.
I actually had a similar thought. The Devs did everything to make sure we know this is *not* a batman game.
@@baki484 No Batman for you! Stop it.
@@gabby3036 While dangling him like a carrot 😂. I like the idea Monty presented. Show players what they can potentially become by letting players use him in his final moments. In the end I'm glad it's not a batman game.
@@baki484 Absolutely! I love the idea, to the point I'm not totally convinced they didn't consider it. But they were like, "Oh no, if we let them BE Batman, the rest the game they'll be saying, 'I dunno, this doesn't make me *feel* like Batman.'"
@@baki484 I mean, they were trying to do stuff with that in the show Gotham right? I actually thought some of that was pretty good. I know it wasn't exactly The Dark Knight but boy, howdy they had fun with it. That's what I think is missing from Gotham Knights. It seems like it wanted to be more "fun" - with the neon lights and the character interactions, more lighthearted? And I get that, like the Animated Series is my absolute fave and that show seemed to know how to bring levity to things but Gotham Knights seems like a game made for people who have *no idea* about these characters, so it doesn't matter if their characterization is flanderizing, cause it's not gonna turn anybody off when they don't "get it".
"The game rupturing under the weight of batgirl's cake" lol😂 that line surprisingly got me
I think the biggest problem with WB in the last few years is that were doing everything they could to work around the need for an actual quality product, or at least, the kind of quality that can't be achieved by simply throwing more money at a it. The idea of player retention, where the idea is to design a game that retains players through compulsive craving, tells you everything. And your experience of a game that keeps promising to "get good" is the realization of that design intention. You keep playing in the hope of some reward just around the corner. It's just like the cliffhanger-style storytelling of modern serialized TV like Lost. The promise is that ultimately, the mysteries will all have an answer. But eventually, viewers figured out no satisfying answers were ever going to come. And those who stick it out till the end were rewarded with the ultimate disappointment.
This endless promise with no delivery worked for serialized TV in that people didn't realize they'd been had until the show got what it wanted, years of ratings. But for a game, where the whole thing sells in one package, they couldn't stop word of mouth from spreading that there's no pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.
So what on earth drives this notion that making a good game with a good story and actually good game play isn't the goal? That they should be making games people play compulsively rather than because it's fun or rewarding. I'm sure there are marketing analysts who could talk your ear off about what the sales analysis reveals. That "good" is a subjective term, and no two consumers have the same definition of what it is. And that's all true.
But ultimately, I think there's a simpler answer. The reason these games suck is because the people who call the shots are the execs rather than the creators. But they want to be the creators, because that's where the real joy is. It's the same reason the big AI programs were built to generate art for the unimaginative and unskilled. People want to be the creators, but without the years of training, self-doubt, and frankly, poverty that comes with becoming a creator.
So the execs have pushed the creators aside to make the creative choices. But because they're not creative, their choices tend to suck. The decade-ling development of both Gotham Knights and Suicide Squad suggest one bad game idea after another was pushed and then abandoned, as the execs failed to find the main thing you need creativity for: Inspiration. The results are inevitably unimaginative retreads of better ideas, fleshed out by beleaguered development teams into lackluster product no one actually enjoys playing.
So what do the execs do about these excellent game studios becoming money pits, because they can't actually produce a serviceable game under these conditions? The only thing to do is try to find some algorithmic way to bypass quality with addictive game loops that encourage compulsive playing. In the words of Bill Murray's character in Scrooged, "I don't want people to want to watch it. I want them to be so scared to miss it!"
Something tells me that Monty's GOTY is this right here. I been hearing you mention it in all these Batman videos, so I know you were excited to bring it all to us because you enjoyed it so much! So now, when do we get to review the lovely extra content?
All jokes aside, another fantastic video, Monty. All the time and effort put into these videos is just amazing. Thank you for all the entertainment you bring!
Another absolute banger of a video! You weren't exaggerating about absolutely hating this game, and I loved how articulate you were in explaining why.
The best part is after Bruce gives a speech about how much he hates the Rich and Powerful(tm) the cutscene only shows a bunch of goons that the court had kidnapped/brainwashed and/or tortured into servitude getting blown up.
The moral of the story is that the Belfry is quite remarkable
I think the worst thing about this game is how much of a shameless attempt to grift Arkham fans the game is. They try to make it seem like it's a similar game but the two are completely unrelated in pretty much every way. Can't wait till we start gettjng good triple A games again.
The other problem with the Harley is Crazy setup is it's really reductive to the mentally unwell and a very incurious way of writing someone with it. Like, the idea is that someone in that altered state is that they DO often have some rationality to their actions, it's just often unmoored from the rest of reality, and if you know their rationale, it is something that you can follow. It's such lazy and kind of ableist writing to just fall back on a trope that, at best, is built on the extremely limited and bigoted understanding of the pasts within certain cultures. And all of this is more aggravating with how many of the villains in the Bat Gallery struggle with mental illness and how much the best of his stories with them dance with the nuance of dealing with someone who does evil, but does so in part because they are extremely unwell.
Touch grass please.
@@cursedcancersurvivor imagine being so brainwashed, devoid of empathy and lacking in critical thought that your immediate response to someone calling out the very real bias against people with mental disorders is that "they must be a dummy poopy head that needs to 'touch grass' because they're saying things I refuse to understand"
You sound like you unironically complain about "SJWs"
@@cursedcancersurvivor. Sounds like you missed the point.
How about game studios make an excellent game and retain players that way? Novel idea, I know.
I grabbed this dumpster fire for $15 after replaying Arkham Knight when your initial Arkham critique came out and after watching Whitelight's video on it. A friend and I enjoy playing bad co-op games together and I figured it would at least be a fun 15 hours with a gaming buddy. I was wrong! The game is so incredibly unfun and bland in nearly every aspect and we had to quit after nearly finishing the story because the crashes were just too much to handle. Bless you for actually finishing it Monty!
Of course pirate lover Monty Zander goes for that buccaneer-esque Nightwing suit! It’s the best one in the game imo. Not that that’s a particularly big compliment.
But I have to say, I have a great affection for the writing of the emails and the characterization they give of the characters. They can be hilarious, and clearly people tried with those, and had a bit of creative freedom. And the “transformation” bat cycle skin is a sweet touch that I really appreciated. Other than that, hard agree with a lot of your thoughts.
Did someone say PIRATES
How fucking great are pirates though
There IS a lift to the second floor (took me 2 playthroughs of the game to notice it though, so I throw no shade)
If you pause this video at 17:41, you can see a conspicuous railing over by the kitchen area, set up next to a little square platform. That's the lift. When you hit the top of the stairs at 17:42, you can see the railing directly opposite them is segmented, since that's where the railing opens to allow the lift entrance to the top the stairs.
"we are building a long engagement experience" and people are saying this game was never a live service even though the signs of once being one are clearly there.
Emotes (replacing a gadget wheel)
Co-op which was heavily advertised
Crappy default skins to push customization.
Gear
RPG elements
The only thing separating it from avengers is the game being open world and not having microtransactions (and let's be honest they were removed at some point during development).
The opening cutscene was definitely nice it should've been playable in all honesty. In all honesty the story didn't give me a sense of dread with batman being dead and all.
Indeed😊
I knew the game was bad, I'd heard a lot of it's issues second hand... but actually seeing this mess broken down like this just hurts. AAA Gaming at it's finest, folks.
One of the things I disliked about this universe is the missed opportunity to tell a modernized story. Some people may disagree, but taking three of the most morally ambiguous anti-hero style “villains” and turning them into straight up evil rogues was such a mistake for a story based on a Gotham post-Batman. Hell, Harley and Clayface were members of the Bat-Family at one point. Mr Freeze’s wife has been saved. This could’ve been a story of their redemption. The knights have to form a trusting relationship with these criminals that Batman had, and in the end they could help us take down the overpowered court of owls. It makes so much more sense, especially in today’s climate
gods, the fact that Gotham Knights turned out this way pisses me off to no end, I *love* the bat family, and a game exploring these characters, their dynamics with eachother, and their relationship with batman's legacy could have been *incredible*, but instead it fell into the same live service, retention-focused grindy bullshit that so many other games this generation have fallen into. The bat family deserved better
What pisses me off is how much they wasted the court of owls story (you know they f*cked up when court is not intimidating) for this generic RPG-lite game with co-op that came at the cost of performance and story.
@@baki484 I don't get how people defend it not being an arkham game with "well we've had 4 whole arkham games!" but then seemingly don't mind it being essentially the same rpg open world ubisoft grindy nonsense that almost every single AAA game tries nowadays. Like, man, the arkham games are great and unique, of course I want more of those games! I dunno if I need another janky ubisoft clone!
@@TyrannoFan The it's not arkham" excuse never flew with me. The same people saying we shouldn't compare wouldn't be saying that if the game was better. I've engaged with a lot of Gotham knights fanboys saying things like "I hope you keep the same energy when the game does well". And the "haters" kept that energy and they couldn't handle it.
The best one is "In a few years people are going to regret sleeping on this game" guess they forgot that there are games like Spiderman 2 and Wolverine I doubt we'll find time to regret "sleeping on this game"
Gotham knights had to live up to the standard the arkham series set and it failed at every turn. Insomniac's Spiderman before it came was compared to previous Spiderman games (web of shadows, ultimate Spiderman and Spiderman 2 movie tie-in) and the arkham series and no one complained. Doesn't help that the Devs shot themselves in the foot during marketing a few times too.
Ironically some of the Devs are from Ubisoft. I saw the reveal and I knew this is would happen. The game is like AC odyssey.
"The camel is me" And now we know Monty's fursona.
I’m a simple man, Monty Zander uploads a video, I watch it, I enjoy it. Then I patiently wait until the next.
You spent a lot, and I mean A LOT of time on this. I hope this video does well for you, since I can feel your passion for the source material and frustration from the devs decisions. I just finished Final Fantasy 16 and feel like I can make a video like this for that damn game. People are going bananas for it, loving it and calling it GOTY. I feel like I’m going crazy since I obviously didn’t play the same game they did. Maybe one day I’ll be as brave and passionate as you and make that video.
I'm new to the channel and I've watched a few of your videos so far. Primarily the Batman Arkham critiques. So you can imagine my confusion when I didn't actually see anything on your channel relating to Gotham Knights despite the many mentions in the aforementioned critiques. Thank you for finally closing that loop.
Also thanks for helping me through long hours at work lol.
It is kinda wild that Warner Bros isn't *mandating* the Nemesis system be used wherever it's even *vaguely* relevant.
Also look. I know I'm that old asshole, but Harley's still Tara Strong, the Joker's Mark Hamill. Anyone else just sounds wrong. Fight me.
This Harley just seems like a bit of a loser. I've always had a soft spot for Harley, especially as a mentally broken victim of the Joker. Redemption Harley's way more interesting that her going villain again... because a villain's what the Joker made her and relapse is a bit disappointing... when it's poorly done. Which it was.
I do appreciate obsessive ex girlfriend Talia though. Shame they forgot to bother giving her a boss fight.
I so badly want single player Batman games to come back and never go away! They could make Batman games about any story in the Batman universe. I loved Arkham origins. I really hope these games make a comeback!
Why do so many of Robin's costumes just look like he's doing a Flash cosplay?
I get the feeling that whoever wrote Grayson only knows the memes about his butt and not his comic book history. My favorite superhero of all time is Dick Grayson. This game doesn’t understand any of its characters most of all Grayson and Barbara. No mention of Dick being a cop (probably because “cops bad”) and having a degree in forensic science. No mention of the Oracle system other than her icon or even a mention of Grayson and Barbara’s relationship. Just jokes about Grayson being dumb and having a nice butt.
"Just jokes about Grayson being dumb and having a nice butt" no joking, that's intentionally how the writers saw him and all starded to make sense to me with the line of him being "a super himbo". It's so sad they had the opportunity to take an 83 years old character and their line of thought was "this man is funny and super pretty.....HIMBO"
My biggest takeaway from this is that BRUCE HAD AN UNCLE THIS WHOLE TIME???? Where was he when Bruce's parents died and he was raised by his butler???
If anyone watching this really wants to see the bat family just interact with each other as people and don't want to try and dive into the vast ocean of the comics, you can read Wayne Family Adventures for free, neat little weekly comics that can go from lighthearted and cheesy, to actually touching on some real character moments
There are so many different points in this review where I've said, outloud, "thank god you're the one who played this and not me" because holy hell this looks, sounds, *FEELS* like a horrendous experience--I can't tell you the number of times I've rolled my eyes while watching this, at every story beat, every quote-un-quote 'reveal', every excuse to force you into another bland combat arena... the number's simply too big for the human mind to comprehend
god bless you Monty
I thought this game would be a dream come true when I first heard about it, I've always wanted more stories about batgirl, nightwing, robin and red hood, but jesus christ, it just makes me so sad to see what happened to what might have been such a great idea for a game
Arkham: Nemesis brought a sad tear to my eye for what could have been.
Hey been going through a nostalgia binge of the old batman games, and wanted to say, totally agree with nemesis system implemented here would be insane, take it another step forward, common criminals could become their own super villain level in a sense as they keep getting away, or be able to visit them in GCPD after they've been caught. Another system they should have implemented in my opinion is the character changing mechanic from GTA 5 and that was done on the PS3 & 360 :( WTF Warner Brothers!
the nemesis system is one of the best things to happen to video games in recent memory
Hey, I still haven’t finished the video yet but early on you mentioned that there was no lift to get Oracle’s wheelchair up to the second floor of the belfry but there is one actually. It’s right in between the main entrance and the kitchen, you can even see it in the footage you showed while saying that.
When I played this game’s first couple hours, I decided my Robin was having a psychotic episode and started calling criminals’ teeth “clues” as he knocked them out of their mouths
the defense "playing with your friends is fun" YES OF COURSE IT IS, throwing dog shit at your friends is also fun compared to throwing it alone, dosnt mean anything. ANYTHING WITH A FRIEND can be fun. i am so sick of hearing this as a defense for a game
Someone getting mugged and yelling for help and the hero just saying nah saving you doesn't give me the right materials is hilarious.
My God I would've been so pissed if I bought this on launch...
I think what pisses me off, is that the game doesn't explain some of its mechanics very well. And I had no idea I could just, hold back on my stick to keep Nightwings trapeeze up in the air. I always held forward for obvious reasons of moving forward and that would forcefully gut your air time and have you quick let go.
And I don't think the game ever elaborated. This is my first time seeing how it should actually be. And I can't tell if I'm mad at the game or myself more.
Batman kept killing himself in this game. He literally blows himself up twice. He dies, comes back and couldn’t wait to explode again! The man who NEVER quits gave up twice.
It’s such a shame how it turned out it really should’ve been a continuation of the Arkham universe, all they needed to do was take what Arkham Knight did and make a bigger world and a variety of characters to play. I could understand that Montreal probably didn’t want to just use Rocksteadys foundation again but like the foundation was so good and they honestly should’ve just made new entries in that series either a sequel to Origins or a sequel to Knight
Okay so I could very well be the only one who wants this, but is it possible that we could be getting an in depth retrospective of the gears of war series? Love the channel!!
Not anytime soon. I’ve got a chunk of videos planned to take me well into 2024. But GoW IS on the Lore Dump list for the future!
@@MontyZander Well good thing I’ll be here well into 2024!!
Anybody mention that you can swap out the bat family with the Ninja Turtles and they’d still basically be the same?
1:53:46 you make fun but there are 3 dunkin' doughnuts on a street in my town
I kept expecting the background song to break out into the Theme of Guts with the singer going aaaaaaaaaa
I was going to buy this game based on the nemesis system being in the game for the court of owls. I later learned that was scrapped for a service game. It was also going to have Damian Wayne as batman, nope
The fact they didn’t use the nemesis system is wild. It would’ve upped the gameplay so much.
You know who did the feeling of being a part of a team despite playing alone good? Ghostbusters: the video game
Sometimes a game just looks like it's going to be a slog, that's what I felt when I saw the trailers and even now when seeing gameplay. It's just not looking fun to play, even when you're leaving story, dialogue and characters out of the equation.
Such a shame.
I'm 41:49 into this video. They should have given Red Hood a more old fashioned rope and grappling hook, and they could say that Jason died before Batman changed to the grapnel gun. Plus they could have it look dangerous compared to the others, since he's a gun-toting vigilante who doesn't care if he lives or dies(again).
I thought this was about the tv show, I forgot the game existed but how did Penguin get Nth metal, HOW?
Gotham Knights is what happens when your Publisher tells you to copy Fortnite without specifying that they meant the Battlepass, Skins and online store, not the PvE mode.
the thumbnail and title alone etch the idea how the game heavily rely on Batman and the Arkham franchise
HOORAY!
Ive been binging your arkham review videos and man they are well created! I was so excited to watch this video and see what you have to show us!
I remember alot of people saying this and I agree, but the story of Gotham Knights seems to be designed around one of the Knights in particular; Jason. Which begs the question of if this could've worked better as a solo Red Hood game, possibly as a followup to Bruce's maybe kinda but not really death in Arkham Knight.
this doesn’t actually work for Jason at all considering you had to drastically change his character to make it work. Therefore it could fit anyone
@@BabyGirlTiny Fair, I moreso meant if they kept his original characterization intact if could've been more interesting
Yeah really, idk why they didn't juet give robin a technology wing glide as well. Maybe just a cape able to rocket boost or something but not able to dive bomb like barb. Instead of a bloody teleport. I can't blame jasons weird jump though, idk where I'd even start with him either
After playing orgins, how did the studio drop the ball so hard on the writing aspect.
I think this game must have been a live service game from the beginning but after the avengers, they retooled the game to make it singleplayer. This could explain why the game is so messy.
In most of the story recap cutscenes, you could've literally replaced the bat family with the ninja turtles and it'd still make 100% sense
Wow they even failed in being greedy mfers tbh. They went through the trouble of bringing Bruce back, ruining the story as you said...just to have him die again anyways. Had he lived, he could have been a dlc character they could sell. Lol
I have been really anticipating this video so this was a very pleasant surprise. Just getting started watching it, but the part about new players discovering the Arkham series rings true for me. I was really interested in checking it out after watching your series, and now I’m playing Asylum for the first time and it’s fantastic. Glad I’m finally giving it a chance. Keep up the great work on your videos! I appreciate you introducing me to series I didn’t partake in before.
When I started this video I was considering replaying Gotham Knights. After finishing the video, I have absolutely no desire to do so. Thanks Monty