A super helpful and easy to follow set of instructions without a bunch of filler chatter or extraneous nonsense that makes it seem complicated. I wish all instructional videos were as effective. Thanks!!
This channel is genuinely one of the best informative climbing channels out there. Clear, coherent and offers a ton of nifty tricks that make climbing a lot more convenient. Hopefully you get back to posting more videos!
Thank you for the encouragement! The funny thing was for the first 2 years nobody looked at my channel. After making 22 videos with no results, I gave up and was kind of frustrated by it. Then a month later I started getting subs! As soon as I stopped making videos my channel took off! Haha! The other thing is I have almost run out of ideas for videos that I can create with no assistant-no partner, no camera person, just me. So now I have to lean on my friends to help me make videos which means I owe them a favor. And right now we have no income so paying someone is out of the question. But I got some ideas recently, so hopefully I can get back on it.
Thank you! This weekend passed. I climbed a lot and one duo I met had 3 carabiners on a sliding x. All different sizes too. His friend climbed up top and couldn’t be lowered down and started buggin out! I run up top and found their smaller carabiner in the middle was caught between 2 bigger black diamond carabiners. Which was jamming the rope up. Not a catastrophic human error. But if they were by themselves they would’ve been screwed cu he had no daisy chain to clip into bolts up top amd other stuff I thought of. So I told them ditch the 3 carabiners or get all the same attaché size so you don’t have that issue again. Just got into climbing in may so I’m new still but I been out every weekend learning and was glad I got to fix more experienced climbers setup. I honestly hope climbing is a big part of my life till I’m dead. Never felt so good! Haha
You bring up an important point. 3 steel ovals that are the same size and shape seems to work the best for me. And yes, I always have a sling and a locker that I can leash in with. I also like to carry a rappel device with me at all times in case I decide it would be better to rappel than be lowered, ie rockfall injures the belayer.
Thank you. I agree the Quad was a notable technique that I left out. I was debating how much material to cover. I think I will show the quad in a future video because it's a nice rig. The quad is great for multi-pitching because each person can clip into a different pair of loops and when they lean back they don't pull on one another as much.
I don’t climb, more’s the pity. Too old now, but I do enjoy watching climbing vids. I’ve watched so many that I feel I could quite confidently set up my ropes to climb or belay. Ha ha? Daft as that seems. I enjoyed this vid. Thank you.
Is it redundant? Well, my internet research for anchors was until I found this, being the only one that explained 'why' this vs that on anchoring methods. Thank you for that.
Thanks Eric! Your video demonstrations are awesome! The most helpful, superbly explained and easy to understand/comprehend (which is kind of important bc of the life on the other end of the rope) that I've found. I truly appreciate your knowledge!
Great video, thank you! Quick question - is it also okay to have the self-equalizing system using limiter knots for the cordelette instead of the figure 8 knot?
Using a double length sling (4:00) or a cordelette (9:00) tie a clove hitch for the master point and a clove hitch at each of the two bolts for a safer, stronger, adjustable, and faster system. The master point clove hitch is easy to untie as where the loaded over hand and figure eight knots are harder to untie when loaded, frozen, or with gloves. The clove hitches at the anchors act as shock absorbers and hold the sling in place. There is less shock loading. Thanks. Steve Thaw, Moraga, California
great video! i do think you missed that your quick draw set up gates should opposed and facing away from eachother but thanks for the review very helpful
Thanks! The carabiners that clip to the bolts do not need to be reversed and opposed. However, they need to be oriented so they are not pressing against the rock in a way that could stress the carabiner. Carabiners have different shapes, and not all will fit on the bolts well. If the bolts are on overhanging rock then the carabiners won't touch the rock, and it doesn't matter which way they are spun. It the bolts are on less steep rock, then this can be a concern. The only carabiners that need to be reversed and opposed are the ones at the master point.
Opposite and opposed is great practice for master. When clipping to a bolt follow the point of no interference. This is an excellent video on the topic but it still does not take the place of a hands on instructor. If you’re near them...consider taking a class with them. Hands on experience with a qualified instructor is worth much more than any piece of gear you can buy.
@@CaliforniaClimbingSchool your master point was NOT opposed in the first example. The guide incorrectly explains the quickdraw gates facing each other as being the correct way.
The "Sliding X" is not redundant if the sling were to break at one side of the bolt - this is only redundant if the bolt or carabiner were to fail. If using the "Sliding X", limiting knots should be used. Otherwise great info!
Thank you! I 99% agree. The 1% could be the rare situation where a long, cold alpine climb makes taking off gloves and tying knots difficult and time consuming. In this case it might help you avoid frostbite to your fingers if you keep your warm gloves on and don't bother tying and untying knots with your bare hands. Obviously this wouldn't be a 2 bolt anchor-it might be a snow, ice, or rock anchor. The point is sometimes the simple techniques can save enough time to save your life. But I wouldn't use the sliding X without limiting knots unless there was a great need for speed!
Watching this as a complete beginner it seems like the double QuickDraw method would be the simplest for someone new to climbing - no knots or angles to worry about and RENE to the extent that you mentioned. Any downsides here or reasons to preferentially choose another method? Also where does a PAS fit into the mix?
Nice, old-fashioned is still the best. I've learned that method at 7:00 already in the 80s at my first climbing course (outdoor of course). Same for the belaying method by using munter hitch. Simple but effective as the clove hitch. Beside using your rappel device and a prussik properly you really have not to know that much about safe freeclimbing and you will never forget it like how to drive a car.
Super fast and easy, no knots to tie and untie--great when you are in a hurry like on long routes in the mountains! I know what you mean. People get fancy with all their new climbing gear but haven't learned the fundamentals! Sometimes simple is best.
@@CaliforniaClimbingSchool Thanks for your encouragement. Even after more than 20 years without climbing i would know how to manage an anchor, it was an unforgettable time then, deeply impressing. :)
My mind is made up-RENE is the way! I learned it from Bob Gaines. I believe it pre-dates Ernest and Serene, which are both overly complex in my opinion. Now how do we convince the climbing community?
With your sliding-X, you still have some extension. The question is how much extension is required to cause a shock load that then approaches the strength limit of the gear? Do you have links to studies on the amount of force is applied to a sling in sliding-X formation with an arbitrary amount of extension or even a 6-inch extension? Nice videos! Clear and concise. RENE is old school, is it not? ;)
Great questions! RENE is old school. I learned it from Bob Gaines, who is pretty old school, and I guess I am too. Here's a link to a cool article on anchors. The main message they have for sliding systems is make sure each piece in the anchor is bomber! If you have to settle for a less than bomber piece in your anchor, then pre-equalize it so there's no extension. You don't want to shock load a weak piece. I've heard some AMGA types talk about 6" max extension in a sliding system. But I haven't seen a study about it. americanalpineclub.org/resources-blog/2017/7/31/anchors
Correct me if I’m wrong but i think your demo of the 2 QuickDraw anchor was incorrect. The gates of the bottom Caribiners should be facing away from each other, not towards. 1:12
No matter if the bottom carabiners are facing away from each other or towards one another you get the exact same result: reversed and opposed carabiners at the master point.
Can you explain me why you use two locking carabiners? I really do not see any point in doing it. Just wast of material and weight to carry as the attachment point with the belay device will always be one
The locker on the belay device is a monitored point. If it begins to unscrew or cross-load, we can notice these problems and fix them. The master point of a top rope is unmonitored since the belayer is on the ground. If a carabiner unscrews or cross loads there is no one there to fix the problem. Two carabiners, reversed and opposed, give you peace of mind when you can't monitor the master point. Having locking carabiners on the master point is bonus. The important thing is to have more than one carabiner reversed and opposed.
For a equalized non extending v anchor, I like to clip a biner through the overhand knot and not worry about using too much rope for the figure 8 and it is easy to untie
@AKAAK Dyneema is slippery and has a low melting temperature, so if it starts sliding while used as a prusik it can fail pretty quickly because of the heat caused by friction. Nylon has a slightly higher melting temperature so it's not quite as sensitive, but slings are still kinda slippery compared to cord. It can be used in a pinch but you'll likely need more wraps around the rope than you would with a cord for it to not slide. If you have a choice, there's no reason to pick a flat sling over a cord for use as a prusik.
Two steel carabiners--lockers or even non-lockers--is a great master point. Guides and institutions will frequently use 3 steel non-locking ovals. It's not the greater strength of the steel they are after, but rather the fact that the rope gets so dirty with aluminum when you use aluminum carabiners for your master point. I don't recommend using only one carabiner at your master point unless you are there to monitor it. A locker can come unscrewed or a carabiner can get cross-loaded when you are not looking at it.
Hi, I have question. If the master point is on the bad place for top rope > the rope will be rubbing against edge or something) what is better way to move that master point to longer distance? Use long slings (static rope?) ? or can I move that master point with next sling (which is clipped to anchor's master point. That sling will be straight, so can I put that inside rope protector? and to the end clip carabines for "second" master point? - is it good idea or bad. (my english is not good, I hope you understand my text :) )
Static 10mm rope is great. Check out the Joshua Tree "V" system. You can attach slings to slings to make a second master point but it's messy and has more failure points and takes more time to rig.
Great video. I appreciate the details like "keep that angle at less than 60º". Can you please comment on the use of non-locking carabiners at the bolt instead of locking? I notice that non-locking is common practice but would like to know if there is a specific reason. Thank you!
Great question. There's a chance when the climber reaches the master point they climb a little too high and when they lean back the rope could come across the gate of a non-locker and unclip. There's more action on the masterpoint carabiners with the rope getting flicked and flipped, compared to the action at the bolt which is much less. More action = more chance of failure as carabiners re-position and re-orient themselves. But lockers on the bolts is ideal. If you have extra lockers for the bolts, why not? Especially for extended top rope sessions where no one can monitor the anchor.
Ok so, im no climber, yet. I must say though, based on NO experience that the single and double lenght runners seem least "safe". The kN on those seem to be lower than using any of the other systems. Am i way off in thinking that?
Every complex system introduces a variety of shortcomings. The long runner between 4:00 and 7:00 ends up with various knots, meant to isolate each side or equalize the directional force. Any low load, i.e. rappel or toprope, max out 1-2x body weight, trivial to any real concerns; in a belay anchor experiencing a major impact fall factor, however, dyneema/spectra slings can melt as knots tighten, so that's out. Equalizing is really overemphasized, unless every anchor is crap. Extension is likely the worst issue, again worst case using dyneema sling, one anchor fails, while climber is clipped directly to the anchor with a spectra quickdraw or biner alone - the loop extends 12-18", then shock loads the climber/lone remaining anchor. The sling could snap, the anchor could be yanked out, the climber will feel dangerously high impact force in the lower internal organs. If one is on a multi-pitch route, all the extraneous slingage is really overly confusing and unneeded, as the main rope itself can be tied into each anchor point and adjusted with just clove hitches or butterfly knots, as necessary, saving the runners for use in protection points. It is stronger than any sling. Why the Euro method has taken hold is a mystery - just because guides use it should not presume it is superior.
You bring up excellent points. There is no perfect anchor. They are all flawed. If a component of the anchor is less than bomber and shock loading could result, then the climber should not be leashed in with a dyneema sling. A better practice on multi-pitch climbs is to clove hitch in to the master point with the rope. The stretch in the rope will significantly soften any impact forces to the body that shock loading could cause. Many guides teach that 12" is the maximum extension one should tolerate in an anchor. Building an anchor with the rope instead of slings is "old school" but we should not dismiss a practice simply because it is "old school"--it has certain advantages, as you pointed out: less chance of shock loading, less gear involved, etc. Transitions can be slower when building an anchor with the rope because there is no master point for the second to clip into, especially if the leader of the first pitch is going to lead the next pitch as well. Rescue techniques such as raises, lowers, belay escapes, etc can get complicated without a master point. The best recommendation I can give is to learn as many techniques for anchor building as you can, and then apply the system that best fits the situation at hand.
Both are awesome! Dyneema slings are so slim and slippery that the knots are tough to untie afterwards, but great for alpine adventures due to weight. When I'm closer to the road I like a nylon/spectra blend sling that is easier to untie and more durable. A cordelette is ideal for trad when you have 3 pieces of pro to equalize. Another awesome way to rig two bolts is the quad method with a cordelette. Pick your favorite and master it. No need to learn 17 methods to rig anchors unless you're a nerd like me :)
@@SoCalkiteflier Old school-it works OK if you are swapping leads up a multi pitch and you don't need the full length of the rope. The second has no clear place to clip in when they reach the anchor. A sling or a cordelette anchor with a master point makes it easier for the second to clip in and facilitates self-rescue techniques and rappelling.
Can you explain why you say it's so important to avoid avoid 6-12" of extension while using a sliding X? I imagine you're using a dynamic rope, right? Climbing with a dynamic rope will prevent the shock load that you're worried about. If you're using a static rope then yes the shock loading will be immense. But climbers use dynamic rope and routinely take much higher falls than the 12" you'd see if an anchor failed. For example, if a 75kg climber falls 3m and there is 15m of dynamic rope available for stretch, the resulting impact force is 2.5kn. But a 12" fall in the same scenario would only be ~1kn. Tying knots in a sling can reduce the breaking strength by 50-60%. So why sacrifice your first line of defense by taking a 20kn sling and turn it into a 8-10kn sling (by tying limiter knots) just to avoid the potential ~1kn of force you'd take if one of your anchors failed? I'm not a climber by the way. I just like the science but your decision doesn't make any sense to me, no offense. Maybe I'm missing something?
@@CaliforniaClimbingSchool I assume you are using a wired lavalier that is attached to the neck of your shirt. Probably because of the position you are sitting in you rub your neck/helmet-strap against the lavalier. You could think about attaching it to your helmet cap. It's still close to the mouth but will give you more freedom of movement. You can also think about a wireless lavalier system like the Rode wireless go. This is very user friendly (click-and-go) plus, it won't be necessary to sync audio afterward. More technical, you could also try to lower die recording levels on your recording device. then afterwards in editing you have less background noise + rubbing sounds or hissing.
The rope clipped into the locker on the rings is for my temporary safety while I build the anchor. The rest of the carabiners are part of the anchor which will keep me safe while I climb. Does that answer your question?
What do you think about this single-overhand method from the DMM testing video? Looks simple, redundant, directional, and doesn't use up too much extra webbing: th-cam.com/video/Vrgadjo9niY/w-d-xo.html
It just does not seem strong🤔 i am traing to be a climbing guide and I have never climbed on two slings that were not tied at the ends I have climbed with ken nicals and I have seen his ankers and he just does some wiyeld ankers to 😏
@@johnparla6252 Tying a knot weakens the sling. Plus tying and untying knots takes more time and can be tough to untie if you put a lot of force on the anchor.
Great video! However with the limiting self equalizing knots you DON'T want to twist the rope. No need to make an x because the knots won't let it pass. Also the x introduces friction so it doesn't self equalize well.
What you are suggesting runs counter to my training. However, techniques do evolve over time, so I am not going to say you are wrong. In fact, I hope you are right because that would simplify the rig and improve equalization as you point out. Is there some data or research that you have found to show that the knot won't pass through the masterpoint carabiners if one bolt fails?
I struggle to understand the need for two 24kN rated 'biners yet only a single sling. The sling is if brand new good for 14kN max after adding the knots (~60% of 22kN). Given each bolt is unlikely to blow below 30kN, the sling seems like the weak point! If it broke at the limiter knots then both carabiners would slip right out. I think the sling is added to provide redundancy across the two bolts but in reality becomes a single point of failure at the limiter knots.
Great question. I haven't heard of climbers whose sling broke at the knot in this setup. In fact it's hard to break a sling in climbing falls. Have you heard of a failure like that? I couldn't rule it out but it sounds unlikely. As far as using just one locker at the master point instead of two, I think that's great if someone has their eyes on it to fix any problems that may occur like the carabiner unscrewing or getting pinched awkwardly. If no one is there to monitor the masterpoint, I feel more comfortable with two carabiners reversed and opposed. A single 22KN carabiner is plenty strong, but they are squirrelly and get themselves into trouble from time to time.
If the carabiners are swinging in the air on steep terrain, there is certainly no need for lockers on the bolts. When the carabiners are pressed into the rock on lower angle terrain, lockers can add a bit of safety. Accidents where the carabiners clipped to the bolts fail because they were non lockers instead of lockers are rare or perhaps non existent. At least I am not aware of one. If you anticipate upward forces on your anchor, then lockers on the bolts can be a good idea, because sometimes the sling/draw/cordellete can unclip from a non locker on the bolt.
I really hope that AMGA doesn't teach people to place two locking carabiners for the rope to run though in a top rope situation. Its unnecessary since its a static anchor and a misunderstanding of physics and the equipment. In rope rescue in two person (2kn) loads, we only use one locking carabiner. We never double up. We don't use two locking carabiners in rappelling or belaying which makes the configuration of the locking carabiner much more potentially active/dynamic with movement and migration.
I can't speak for the AMGA. A carabiner that is not monitored should be backed up with another carabiner reversed and opposed. If you can monitor that it doesn't become cross loaded or comes unscrewed, then one locker by itself is fine, such as when belaying or rappelling. But when top roping the master point is out of reach and should have two carabiners.
video starts with climber already attached to chain with clove hitch without any explanation. Basically all videos are done like this. Its confusing. Its really hard to find video with all needed steps. When you complete pitch, first thing you need to do is to secure yourself and than to build anchor. How to combine self-anchoring with anchor for second climber in effective way? Such video is needed. If there are no chains (and usually there are not) such setup is not possible. Thanks for video, it is good, bur for me not complete.
Great question. I agonized over the intro. There are so many ways to do the preliminary steps. It depends if you lead the pitch or if you scramble up the back side to set up a top rope. And it depends how you like to carry your rope-in a rope bag, coiled, and which coiling method you choose. It also depends on whether you want to leash in with a sling/PAS or with the rope. My intention was to create a video for climbers who do not know how to lead. You are right, I should create a video that shows the whole process from start to finish.
Because you can wear grooves in the chains and they will have to be replaced sooner. You should always put the wear and tear of toprope sessions on your own carabiners instead of wearing out the hardware we all share to rappel/lower off with. It is acceptable to lower the last climber who cleans the anchor off the chains/rings but not the other members of the party. Unless there are mussy hooks. In which case go for it. They last a really long time.
![PASULOL รามเกียรติ์ ตอนที่ 4 นนทกพบรัก [Ramakien Ep.4: Nonthok in love]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/tMUQgmZzf_A/mqdefault.jpg)
Thanks! This is good for beginners and even us more experienced climbers. You can never review this stuff too much
Thank you! I wish I had added the quad method but oh well.
A super helpful and easy to follow set of instructions without a bunch of filler chatter or extraneous nonsense that makes it seem complicated. I wish all instructional videos were as effective. Thanks!!
Thanks for the positive feedback!
This channel is genuinely one of the best informative climbing channels out there. Clear, coherent and offers a ton of nifty tricks that make climbing a lot more convenient. Hopefully you get back to posting more videos!
Thank you for the encouragement! The funny thing was for the first 2 years nobody looked at my channel. After making 22 videos with no results, I gave up and was kind of frustrated by it. Then a month later I started getting subs! As soon as I stopped making videos my channel took off! Haha! The other thing is I have almost run out of ideas for videos that I can create with no assistant-no partner, no camera person, just me. So now I have to lean on my friends to help me make videos which means I owe them a favor. And right now we have no income so paying someone is out of the question. But I got some ideas recently, so hopefully I can get back on it.
California Climbing School looking forward to it!
Best video out there for anchors.
Great video mate. I like that you have taken time to explain why things are incorrect and what can happen. Gives a better understanding. Thanks again!
Amazing video with a great description of how things need to be done kudos
Thank you! This weekend passed. I climbed a lot and one duo I met had 3 carabiners on a sliding x. All different sizes too.
His friend climbed up top and couldn’t be lowered down and started buggin out!
I run up top and found their smaller carabiner in the middle was caught between 2 bigger black diamond carabiners. Which was jamming the rope up.
Not a catastrophic human error. But if they were by themselves they would’ve been screwed cu he had no daisy chain to clip into bolts up top amd other stuff I thought of.
So I told them ditch the 3 carabiners or get all the same attaché size so you don’t have that issue again.
Just got into climbing in may so I’m new still but I been out every weekend learning and was glad I got to fix more experienced climbers setup.
I honestly hope climbing is a big part of my life till I’m dead. Never felt so good! Haha
You bring up an important point. 3 steel ovals that are the same size and shape seems to work the best for me. And yes, I always have a sling and a locker that I can leash in with. I also like to carry a rappel device with me at all times in case I decide it would be better to rappel than be lowered, ie rockfall injures the belayer.
7:15 "We're still connected to one side so that's huge" Hahahaha yeah not dying is definitely a good use of the word huge
Well done, haven't heard RENE in a long time with all the new acronyms. And I would have liked to see the Quad added.
Thank you. I agree the Quad was a notable technique that I left out. I was debating how much material to cover. I think I will show the quad in a future video because it's a nice rig. The quad is great for multi-pitching because each person can clip into a different pair of loops and when they lean back they don't pull on one another as much.
Never heard of RENE, thanks for the tips !!
ERNEST and SERENE are good too, but harder to remember what each letter stands for!
I like someone who knows their game.
Thank you!
Thanks! I learn new stuff all the time. Never stop learning!
The Clove Hitch is the Cleanest, Fastest, and Strongest for the anchor bolts and the master point!!!
Bunch of good info packed into a short vid, thanks!
I don’t climb, more’s the pity. Too old now, but I do enjoy watching climbing vids. I’ve watched so many that I feel I could quite confidently set up my ropes to climb or belay. Ha ha? Daft as that seems. I enjoyed this vid. Thank you.
Glad you enjoyed it
"screw them down so we don't screw up" hahahah well played sir
Outstanding video , great teacher.
Screw down so you don't screw up. Fantastic vid. Thank you!
Is it redundant? Well, my internet research for anchors was until I found this, being the only one that explained 'why' this vs that on anchoring methods. Thank you for that.
Thank you!
Thanks Eric! Your video demonstrations are awesome! The most helpful, superbly explained and easy to understand/comprehend (which is kind of important bc of the life on the other end of the rope) that I've found. I truly appreciate your knowledge!
Thank you!
It was very good. Thank you
VERY helpful, thank you sir
Awesome video. Clear and to the point. That one goes on my list 👍🏻👍🏻🇳🇴
Great video, thank you! Quick question - is it also okay to have the self-equalizing system using limiter knots for the cordelette instead of the figure 8 knot?
yes everything you do on a sling can be done on cordelette
A keeper video, going into my save list
Thank you! :)
Using a double length sling (4:00) or a cordelette (9:00) tie a clove hitch for the master point and a clove hitch at each of the two bolts for a safer, stronger, adjustable, and faster system. The master point clove hitch is easy to untie as where the loaded over hand and figure eight knots are harder to untie when loaded, frozen, or with gloves. The clove hitches at the anchors act as shock absorbers and hold the sling in place. There is less shock loading. Thanks. Steve Thaw, Moraga, California
Cool! I haven't seen it but it sounds efficient. Do you use it for toprope or multi-pitch?
great video! i do think you missed that your quick draw set up gates should opposed and facing away from eachother but thanks for the review very helpful
Thanks! The carabiners that clip to the bolts do not need to be reversed and opposed. However, they need to be oriented so they are not pressing against the rock in a way that could stress the carabiner. Carabiners have different shapes, and not all will fit on the bolts well. If the bolts are on overhanging rock then the carabiners won't touch the rock, and it doesn't matter which way they are spun. It the bolts are on less steep rock, then this can be a concern. The only carabiners that need to be reversed and opposed are the ones at the master point.
Opposite and opposed is great practice for master. When clipping to a bolt follow the point of no interference. This is an excellent video on the topic but it still does not take the place of a hands on instructor. If you’re near them...consider taking a class with them. Hands on experience with a qualified instructor is worth much more than any piece of gear you can buy.
@@diydecks8740 True. Here's the class I would recommend anchor-building-classes
@@diydecks8740 Here's the class I would recommend californiaclimbingschool.com/anchor-building-classes/
@@CaliforniaClimbingSchool your master point was NOT opposed in the first example. The guide incorrectly explains the quickdraw gates facing each other as being the correct way.
The "Sliding X" is not redundant if the sling were to break at one side of the bolt - this is only redundant if the bolt or carabiner were to fail. If using the "Sliding X", limiting knots should be used. Otherwise great info!
Thank you! I 99% agree. The 1% could be the rare situation where a long, cold alpine climb makes taking off gloves and tying knots difficult and time consuming. In this case it might help you avoid frostbite to your fingers if you keep your warm gloves on and don't bother tying and untying knots with your bare hands. Obviously this wouldn't be a 2 bolt anchor-it might be a snow, ice, or rock anchor. The point is sometimes the simple techniques can save enough time to save your life. But I wouldn't use the sliding X without limiting knots unless there was a great need for speed!
I have seen tons of anchos videos. I know every single possibility. BUT NO ONE says WHEN and WHICH type to use...
Thank you!
Is that dineema?
Watching this as a complete beginner it seems like the double QuickDraw method would be the simplest for someone new to climbing - no knots or angles to worry about and RENE to the extent that you mentioned. Any downsides here or reasons to preferentially choose another method? Also where does a PAS fit into the mix?
Nice, old-fashioned is still the best. I've learned that method at 7:00 already in the 80s at my first climbing course (outdoor of course). Same for the belaying method by using munter hitch. Simple but effective as the clove hitch.
Beside using your rappel device and a prussik properly you really have not to know that much about safe freeclimbing and you will never forget it like how to drive a car.
Super fast and easy, no knots to tie and untie--great when you are in a hurry like on long routes in the mountains! I know what you mean. People get fancy with all their new climbing gear but haven't learned the fundamentals! Sometimes simple is best.
@@CaliforniaClimbingSchool Thanks for your encouragement. Even after more than 20 years without climbing i would know how to manage an anchor, it was an unforgettable time then, deeply impressing. :)
@@maxheadshot3287 I hope you get to climb again soon!
that was really well done. thanks
Thank you!
Why use two opposite screw carabiners in the anchor?
Isnt that overkill? Or is it just so to make it smoother for the rope to run?
Good vid!!!!
RENE ERNEST SERENA MAKE UP YOUR MINDS
My mind is made up-RENE is the way! I learned it from Bob Gaines. I believe it pre-dates Ernest and Serene, which are both overly complex in my opinion. Now how do we convince the climbing community?
With your sliding-X, you still have some extension. The question is how much extension is required to cause a shock load that then approaches the strength limit of the gear? Do you have links to studies on the amount of force is applied to a sling in sliding-X formation with an arbitrary amount of extension or even a 6-inch extension?
Nice videos! Clear and concise. RENE is old school, is it not? ;)
Great questions! RENE is old school. I learned it from Bob Gaines, who is pretty old school, and I guess I am too. Here's a link to a cool article on anchors. The main message they have for sliding systems is make sure each piece in the anchor is bomber! If you have to settle for a less than bomber piece in your anchor, then pre-equalize it so there's no extension. You don't want to shock load a weak piece. I've heard some AMGA types talk about 6" max extension in a sliding system. But I haven't seen a study about it. americanalpineclub.org/resources-blog/2017/7/31/anchors
Correct me if I’m wrong but i think your demo of the 2 QuickDraw anchor was incorrect. The gates of the bottom Caribiners should be facing away from each other, not towards. 1:12
No matter if the bottom carabiners are facing away from each other or towards one another you get the exact same result: reversed and opposed carabiners at the master point.
Good review!
Thanks! It takes so long to upload I have to go to bed and then I can add the title and stuff after it's already been published for hours! Weird!
Thank you 🙏
Can you explain me why you use two locking carabiners? I really do not see any point in doing it. Just wast of material and weight to carry as the attachment point with the belay device will always be one
The locker on the belay device is a monitored point. If it begins to unscrew or cross-load, we can notice these problems and fix them. The master point of a top rope is unmonitored since the belayer is on the ground. If a carabiner unscrews or cross loads there is no one there to fix the problem. Two carabiners, reversed and opposed, give you peace of mind when you can't monitor the master point. Having locking carabiners on the master point is bonus. The important thing is to have more than one carabiner reversed and opposed.
@@CaliforniaClimbingSchool thx for the replay. I didn't got that the setup was for toproping. In that case it makes sense.
If the loop you twist for the sliding x fails would the sling slip out past the limiting knots?
No. If one strand fails the other strand remains connected.
For a equalized non extending v anchor, I like to clip a biner through the overhand knot and not worry about using too much rope for the figure 8 and it is easy to untie
Can you send a photo?
@AKAAK Aah yes, that's a nice method. It definitely helps untying the overhand knot.
@AKAAK Dyneema is slippery and has a low melting temperature, so if it starts sliding while used as a prusik it can fail pretty quickly because of the heat caused by friction. Nylon has a slightly higher melting temperature so it's not quite as sensitive, but slings are still kinda slippery compared to cord. It can be used in a pinch but you'll likely need more wraps around the rope than you would with a cord for it to not slide. If you have a choice, there's no reason to pick a flat sling over a cord for use as a prusik.
for the method shown at 8:00, instead of twisting one of the loops can you clip one caribiner on each of the loops opposite and opposed?
Yes!
@@CaliforniaClimbingSchool Thank you!
When you're using sling as an anchor, can you double the sling if it's too long? Will that just make the anchor stronger?
Yes and yes!
How about the quad? Would have been nice with the cordelette ! Great video!
I was about to say the same thing too, but then his quad video was cued up to play next. Go TH-cam!
What are your thoughts of using a steel locking carabineer at the master point?
Two steel carabiners--lockers or even non-lockers--is a great master point. Guides and institutions will frequently use 3 steel non-locking ovals. It's not the greater strength of the steel they are after, but rather the fact that the rope gets so dirty with aluminum when you use aluminum carabiners for your master point. I don't recommend using only one carabiner at your master point unless you are there to monitor it. A locker can come unscrewed or a carabiner can get cross-loaded when you are not looking at it.
@@CaliforniaClimbingSchool Thank you! That was very helpful.
Hi, I have question. If the master point is on the bad place for top rope > the rope will be rubbing against edge or something) what is better way to move that master point to longer distance? Use long slings (static rope?) ? or can I move that master point with next sling (which is clipped to anchor's master point. That sling will be straight, so can I put that inside rope protector? and to the end clip carabines for "second" master point? - is it good idea or bad. (my english is not good, I hope you understand my text :) )
Static 10mm rope is great. Check out the Joshua Tree "V" system. You can attach slings to slings to make a second master point but it's messy and has more failure points and takes more time to rig.
"okay so it's redundant, and without extension, but it's not equalized, so we've got 3 out of 4"
I never was very good at fractions.
The Quad Anchor is where you’ll find 4/4
Kacey Jones quad extends if a bolt fails tho right?
Great video. I appreciate the details like "keep that angle at less than 60º". Can you please comment on the use of non-locking carabiners at the bolt instead of locking? I notice that non-locking is common practice but would like to know if there is a specific reason. Thank you!
Great question. There's a chance when the climber reaches the master point they climb a little too high and when they lean back the rope could come across the gate of a non-locker and unclip. There's more action on the masterpoint carabiners with the rope getting flicked and flipped, compared to the action at the bolt which is much less. More action = more chance of failure as carabiners re-position and re-orient themselves. But lockers on the bolts is ideal. If you have extra lockers for the bolts, why not? Especially for extended top rope sessions where no one can monitor the anchor.
Ok so, im no climber, yet. I must say though, based on NO experience that the single and double lenght runners seem least "safe". The kN on those seem to be lower than using any of the other systems. Am i way off in thinking that?
Yeah that sounds logical but in fact the strength of a runner is 22-24 kN. About the same as a carabiner.
Every complex system introduces a variety of shortcomings. The long runner between 4:00 and 7:00 ends up with various knots, meant to isolate each side or equalize the directional force. Any low load, i.e. rappel or toprope, max out 1-2x body weight, trivial to any real concerns; in a belay anchor experiencing a major impact fall factor, however, dyneema/spectra slings can melt as knots tighten, so that's out. Equalizing is really overemphasized, unless every anchor is crap. Extension is likely the worst issue, again worst case using dyneema sling, one anchor fails, while climber is clipped directly to the anchor with a spectra quickdraw or biner alone - the loop extends 12-18", then shock loads the climber/lone remaining anchor. The sling could snap, the anchor could be yanked out, the climber will feel dangerously high impact force in the lower internal organs. If one is on a multi-pitch route, all the extraneous slingage is really overly confusing and unneeded, as the main rope itself can be tied into each anchor point and adjusted with just clove hitches or butterfly knots, as necessary, saving the runners for use in protection points. It is stronger than any sling. Why the Euro method has taken hold is a mystery - just because guides use it should not presume it is superior.
You bring up excellent points. There is no perfect anchor. They are all flawed. If a component of the anchor is less than bomber and shock loading could result, then the climber should not be leashed in with a dyneema sling. A better practice on multi-pitch climbs is to clove hitch in to the master point with the rope. The stretch in the rope will significantly soften any impact forces to the body that shock loading could cause. Many guides teach that 12" is the maximum extension one should tolerate in an anchor. Building an anchor with the rope instead of slings is "old school" but we should not dismiss a practice simply because it is "old school"--it has certain advantages, as you pointed out: less chance of shock loading, less gear involved, etc. Transitions can be slower when building an anchor with the rope because there is no master point for the second to clip into, especially if the leader of the first pitch is going to lead the next pitch as well. Rescue techniques such as raises, lowers, belay escapes, etc can get complicated without a master point. The best recommendation I can give is to learn as many techniques for anchor building as you can, and then apply the system that best fits the situation at hand.
Would be great if I could see what he's doing close up
I agree! I could not afford a camera person! For high production value and top notch content check out the AMGA videos. That is the gold standard.
So cordelette vs double length sling?
Both are awesome! Dyneema slings are so slim and slippery that the knots are tough to untie afterwards, but great for alpine adventures due to weight. When I'm closer to the road I like a nylon/spectra blend sling that is easier to untie and more durable. A cordelette is ideal for trad when you have 3 pieces of pro to equalize. Another awesome way to rig two bolts is the quad method with a cordelette. Pick your favorite and master it. No need to learn 17 methods to rig anchors unless you're a nerd like me :)
Thanks!
Is double lenght slyng 120cm?
Yes
Hi, what about a rope anchor with bunny ears?
Do you mean bunny ears at the master point or bunny ears on the bolts? Or both?
@@CaliforniaClimbingSchool At the bolts
@@SoCalkiteflier Old school-it works OK if you are swapping leads up a multi pitch and you don't need the full length of the rope. The second has no clear place to clip in when they reach the anchor. A sling or a cordelette anchor with a master point makes it easier for the second to clip in and facilitates self-rescue techniques and rappelling.
Can you explain why you say it's so important to avoid avoid 6-12" of extension while using a sliding X? I imagine you're using a dynamic rope, right? Climbing with a dynamic rope will prevent the shock load that you're worried about. If you're using a static rope then yes the shock loading will be immense. But climbers use dynamic rope and routinely take much higher falls than the 12" you'd see if an anchor failed. For example, if a 75kg climber falls 3m and there is 15m of dynamic rope available for stretch, the resulting impact force is 2.5kn. But a 12" fall in the same scenario would only be ~1kn. Tying knots in a sling can reduce the breaking strength by 50-60%. So why sacrifice your first line of defense by taking a 20kn sling and turn it into a 8-10kn sling (by tying limiter knots) just to avoid the potential ~1kn of force you'd take if one of your anchors failed? I'm not a climber by the way. I just like the science but your decision doesn't make any sense to me, no offense. Maybe I'm missing something?
Hi there, I think its because the dynamic rope has already been stretched to its limit by that point thus becoming a static rope? Not sure.
very nice video!
try to keep the mic clear from rubbing.
I stopped using that clip on mic because of that problem. How can I keep the mic from rubbing?
@@CaliforniaClimbingSchool I assume you are using a wired lavalier that is attached to the neck of your shirt. Probably because of the position you are sitting in you rub your neck/helmet-strap against the lavalier. You could think about attaching it to your helmet cap. It's still close to the mouth but will give you more freedom of movement. You can also think about a wireless lavalier system like the Rode wireless go. This is very user friendly (click-and-go) plus, it won't be necessary to sync audio afterward.
More technical, you could also try to lower die recording levels on your recording device. then afterwards in editing you have less background noise + rubbing sounds or hissing.
I'm confused - why have you got two screwgates on the anchor if youre already safe?
The rope clipped into the locker on the rings is for my temporary safety while I build the anchor. The rest of the carabiners are part of the anchor which will keep me safe while I climb. Does that answer your question?
What do you think about this single-overhand method from the DMM testing video? Looks simple, redundant, directional, and doesn't use up too much extra webbing: th-cam.com/video/Vrgadjo9niY/w-d-xo.html
All gates on QD's should face away from each other Period, and everything should face away from each other.
THIS. In the first example he incorrectly sets up the quickdraws. Gates need to be opposite directions!
it is proven that knots drop your Kn rating so remember you are weaker with a knot in your sling it is still safe but is not full strength
You should tie a figer 8 in each of the slings befor you put the lockers on
Why?
It just does not seem strong🤔 i am traing to be a climbing guide and I have never climbed on two slings that were not tied at the ends I have climbed with ken nicals and I have seen his ankers and he just does some wiyeld ankers to 😏
@@johnparla6252 Tying a knot weakens the sling. Plus tying and untying knots takes more time and can be tough to untie if you put a lot of force on the anchor.
Great video! However with the limiting self equalizing knots you DON'T want to twist the rope. No need to make an x because the knots won't let it pass. Also the x introduces friction so it doesn't self equalize well.
What you are suggesting runs counter to my training. However, techniques do evolve over time, so I am not going to say you are wrong. In fact, I hope you are right because that would simplify the rig and improve equalization as you point out. Is there some data or research that you have found to show that the knot won't pass through the masterpoint carabiners if one bolt fails?
🔝🔝🔝🔝🔝🔝🔝🔝🔝🔝🔝🔝🔝🔝🔝🔝🔝🔝🔝🔝🔝
I struggle to understand the need for two 24kN rated 'biners yet only a single sling. The sling is if brand new good for 14kN max after adding the knots (~60% of 22kN). Given each bolt is unlikely to blow below 30kN, the sling seems like the weak point! If it broke at the limiter knots then both carabiners would slip right out. I think the sling is added to provide redundancy across the two bolts but in reality becomes a single point of failure at the limiter knots.
Great question. I haven't heard of climbers whose sling broke at the knot in this setup. In fact it's hard to break a sling in climbing falls. Have you heard of a failure like that? I couldn't rule it out but it sounds unlikely. As far as using just one locker at the master point instead of two, I think that's great if someone has their eyes on it to fix any problems that may occur like the carabiner unscrewing or getting pinched awkwardly. If no one is there to monitor the masterpoint, I feel more comfortable with two carabiners reversed and opposed. A single 22KN carabiner is plenty strong, but they are squirrelly and get themselves into trouble from time to time.
@@CaliforniaClimbingSchool th-cam.com/video/NwbMfh4FqT4/w-d-xo.html
why not using locking carabiners. its just safer and it dosent take more time
If the carabiners are swinging in the air on steep terrain, there is certainly no need for lockers on the bolts. When the carabiners are pressed into the rock on lower angle terrain, lockers can add a bit of safety. Accidents where the carabiners clipped to the bolts fail because they were non lockers instead of lockers are rare or perhaps non existent. At least I am not aware of one. If you anticipate upward forces on your anchor, then lockers on the bolts can be a good idea, because sometimes the sling/draw/cordellete can unclip from a non locker on the bolt.
@@CaliforniaClimbingSchool thanks your for answer.
I really hope that AMGA doesn't teach people to place two locking carabiners for the rope to run though in a top rope situation. Its unnecessary since its a static anchor and a misunderstanding of physics and the equipment. In rope rescue in two person (2kn) loads, we only use one locking carabiner. We never double up. We don't use two locking carabiners in rappelling or belaying which makes the configuration of the locking carabiner much more potentially active/dynamic with movement and migration.
I can't speak for the AMGA. A carabiner that is not monitored should be backed up with another carabiner reversed and opposed. If you can monitor that it doesn't become cross loaded or comes unscrewed, then one locker by itself is fine, such as when belaying or rappelling. But when top roping the master point is out of reach and should have two carabiners.
video starts with climber already attached to chain with clove hitch without any explanation. Basically all videos are done like this. Its confusing. Its really hard to find video with all needed steps. When you complete pitch, first thing you need to do is to secure yourself and than to build anchor. How to combine self-anchoring with anchor for second climber in effective way? Such video is needed. If there are no chains (and usually there are not) such setup is not possible. Thanks for video, it is good, bur for me not complete.
Great question. I agonized over the intro. There are so many ways to do the preliminary steps. It depends if you lead the pitch or if you scramble up the back side to set up a top rope. And it depends how you like to carry your rope-in a rope bag, coiled, and which coiling method you choose. It also depends on whether you want to leash in with a sling/PAS or with the rope. My intention was to create a video for climbers who do not know how to lead. You are right, I should create a video that shows the whole process from start to finish.
Why not run the rope through the chain ,the carabiner is way weaker then the chain ,that the weakest link in that system
Because you can wear grooves in the chains and they will have to be replaced sooner. You should always put the wear and tear of toprope sessions on your own carabiners instead of wearing out the hardware we all share to rappel/lower off with. It is acceptable to lower the last climber who cleans the anchor off the chains/rings but not the other members of the party. Unless there are mussy hooks. In which case go for it. They last a really long time.