This may be the best JTA video yet, it feels like I’m watching a documentary from Smithsonian or National Geographic with the music, interviews (we got a surprising face reveal) and everything.
I'm a locomotive engineer for Metro-North, if you ever have any railroad questions just reach out! I also ran freight trains in New Jersey and Staten Island.
What are your thoughts on a rail connection to Staten Island? Aside from the obvious one connecting the SIRR to the NYC Subway by tunneling under the Verrazano Bridge, maybe utilizing the old North Shore Line to create a connection to Bayonne or Elizabeth.
@ there is currently a rail connection via the Arthur Kill lift bridge, but it remains in the up position and only lowers for freight rail traffic 2 times a day. The channel is so busy that it must stay up. I think it’s not really that necessary for a passenger rail connection because the ferry is there. I however think they should expand the freight network.
The irony is all the NIMBY businessman who begged for the ELs to be torn down...most of those businesses lost their customers and shut down (See 3rd Ave El and Myrtle/Jamaica El articles). Well deserved Karma. Busses are a poor to laughable replacement for rapid rail transit.
Not really. Buses can go anywhere. Here in Pittsburgh we have busways and the buses can go on there and miss all the traffic. Bit then they can also get off and go on regular roads and get you closer to where you need to go.
As a chicago native, I prefer riding an elevated like over a subway The views alone make it worthwhile A modern elevated system with enclosed platforms would be awesome
As a Chicago native, one of the problems with the L (especially in the Loop and River North) is that has the yoke of “Landmark Status.” We unfortunately cannot replace the El in the downtown core with quieter concrete L structures and viaducts used on the Orange Line and Newer parts of the Red Line. The worst blunder in the 1990s rehabilitation of the Green Line was keeping it a steel structure above East 63rd. Should’ve been replaced with concrete.
@@bkark0935No. That's not a mistake at all. They can still put "floating" tracks on the steel viaducts. An example of this is the Berlin U1 line. Where the viaduct is strong enough, they can even put an entire concrete *slab* to for the track deck, which was done right here in America in Philadelphia on the Frankford side of the Market-Frankford Line. Chigago just cheaped out on putting rubber isolators under the ties, similar to engine mounts in automobiles to reduce in noise and vibration.
I was at the meeting where the 1986 MTA proposed to shut down the White Plains #2 line north of 180th St and replace it with buses.. The venue in the Bronx where the meeting was held was packed to overflowing capacity with outraged people demanding the El to remain. The first words the officials uttered at the meet was that the El will be untouched. And they had to repeat themselves before the angry crowd.
@@hhvictor2462 What MTA should’ve done was rebuilt the crossover junction north of 180th Street and Built a proper flying Junction than anything. Same with rebuilding Myrtle Av Broadway. Build an actually proper flying junction…
@@TiagoGomez-hb9te There was short lived movement early 1980s called "planned shrinkage" which basically means all services reduced to cut costs based on fake stats. I don't believe the MTA was in a mood to build anything at that time. Btw the authors of that scheme later disowned it.
In 1970; Bronx local business owners and politicians, had a meeting at our local high school. Amazingly they were urging, local citizens and graduating students, to support their stupid idea of tearing down the third avenue El. This at a time when the ridership of the third avenue l was reaching an old-time high again. It shows, who had the real influence, (the local politicians and business owners, who had businesses, under the 3rd avenue El), and saw to the demolition of the third avenue El. The public did not want the demolition of the Third avenue El.
They wanted to shutdown the #5 line north of East 180 St as well in the late 80’s. The MTA claimed that there were stations that were in disrepair and there was no money to repair them. Plus, there was low ridership on the Dyre Avenue line. Under protest, 3 stations on the line (Baychester Ave, Gun Hill Rd, and Morris Park) were all renovated in the early 90’s and the shutdown never happened.
We all need to come together as people and convince/ persuade the mta to get these important projects started, this will definitely b beneficial to all commuters. We need to turn dreams into reality
@@robertewalt7789changing is not the same as ruining - the loop is probably the single most iconic aspect of Chicago, even though it’s monolithic, old, and very noisy.
Yes, I honestly feel that elevated lines don't get enough love due to how notoriously noisy they are. But truly I believe the benefits of els rule out the noise problem.
Keep bringing up the extra subway elevated lines because it's definitely needed. Put this on the News and Google all as well. I'm very glad the both of y'all are definitely working together and doing the old subway elevated lines videos 📸 and showing the 8 third Avenue elevated line and all the extra subway elevated lines is definitely needed again.
Those three people weren't nice people in offices and taking positions in offices did not give a shit about not keeping no extra subway elevated transportations lines running
The city is definitely not broke anymore. Those three people are long gone. We definitely need to go fourth and bring some extra subway elevated lines back
The 8 third Avenue elevated line back in south Bronx Tremont Webster clearmont Boston central Ave Bronx and under ground on third Ave to Battery park place or south Ferry connecting to the 1 9 R W trains. Including the culture 3rd Avenue elevated in Brooklyn and ninth Avenue elevated line in the Bronx Jerome Ave.
I definitely prefer the 8 third Avenue elevated line in the south Bronx Tremont Webster clearmont Boston central Ave and south Ferry under ground connecting to the 1 9 R W trains and the ninth Avenue elevated line in the Bronx for the 3 Broadway line connecting to the 4 Jerome Ave line to Burnside Jerome Ave
Agreed, I’m sure central queens needs a new and faster way into manhattan. Secondly they need to stop slapping high price tags on projects which is unnecessary
I live next to the elevated M at Myrtle-Wyckoff. The line runs over Myrtle from Broadway where it joins the J/Z. The city has been deplorable in maintaining the infrastructure and it took lots of community effort in Bushwick to get the MTA to look at all the lead paint chipping off of the el and turning to dust over time. Come look at the "fix" along Myrtle. I'm unsure of what the next stage will be, but all lines need to have preventive maintenance scheduled and budgeted as non-negotiables.
Great Video! Please continue being vocally supportive of a proper IBX connection to 74th St/Jackson Heights-Roosevelt Ave station. Like the tunnel you proposed with a station underneath 73rd st, under the QBL platform.
I just finished watching this video and it was the first video I've ever seen from the creator. I want to thank you for your time and the effort that was put into this video and I find it simply amazing. Keep up the great work and I became a subscriber today. I will now watch your videos and catch up with your older stuff. Thanks again for doing what you do ❤️🙏🏻🇺🇸
Face reveal! 😊 I didn't know you were of East Asian heritage; I had always perceived you as a US native-born Irish American townie from Boston. And Mr. Vanshnookenraggen appeared, too, presenting an update for Queenslink. I hope Queenslink gets built even if the foundations and concrete pylons are built first under a Queensway project.
I never understood how people who decided to live in a city complain about nose. I was born and raised in Brownsville, Brooklyn and the building I grew up in (Tilden Projects) is right next to the 3 Train on Livonia Ave elevated and I use to love seeing the trains go by from my 10 story apartment as a kid. BTW: Those older, lighter elevated structures that were torn down here in New York could have been saved and later converted into light rail, like what happened in London when they took some of their abandoned elevated structures around their Docklands area to create the Docklands Light Rail (DLR), especially in the outer boroughs.
I enjoyed reading your comment - I lived in the Howard Houses from the time they opened until the early 70s. I now live in Bay Ridge and hope to be around to benefit from the proposed BQX light rail line. It would certainly shorten my occasional trips to Queens. Be well.
I agree! The Els in my opinion are not ugly at all. All of those Els that were torn down in Manhattan had beautiful Swiss style stations. They were charming. NYC made a lot of mistakes. By the way, I heard that a lot of the pressure to remove the Els were from greedy real estate moguls hoping to develop areas. It wasn't all those disgusting NIMBYs. It was greed too.
Yea but the 7 train is really noisy if you’re walking underneath it. If they can make them quieter that would be great. Don’t get ride of the 7 no matter what though.
The emphasis on community outreach and communication as a way to combat NIMBYism is immensely important and I'm glad that got a mention. There's a prevalent attitude that NIMBYism is something to be ignored, shunned and opposed, yet this only creates more issues as people become disenfranchised and less likely to work with planners.
Exactly! The reason why Phil Eng, Randy Clarke, and Andy Byford are so popular are thanks in part to their transparency. They communicate what is going on and they are extremely visible to the public.
I just came across this channel. These videos are incredibly well edited. I was aware of the separate transit authorities which existed long ago but didn't know intricacies such as why the IND was introduced. Thanks. Subscription added.
Great video! Two requests: A: Please use your video camera to record voice overs. The sound quality is superior as compared to what you are using for the voice overs B: If possible, always prioritize audio when doing interviews. If you are on a limited bandwidth, set the video to a potato slideshow to ensure full audio quality. Or better, do the interview with a low quality while both ends record locally with high quality, and afterwards transfer the high quality recording and sync them up and whatnot in editing.
I love elevated trains. It gives so much personality to a city. I really love walking around Chicago and seeing all those trains rumbling. There is noise, yes, but it's not as bad as you might think. And you actually get used to it. My cousins live in a house really, really close to an el station that runs 24 hours a day, and when I stayed it wasn't terrible. Plus today glass can do marvelous things to mitigate a lot of the noise. I hope nyc goes that route and brings back new el routes.
The 8 third Avenue elevated line is definitely missing in the south Bronx Tremont Webster clearmont Boston road central Ave Bronx. You definitely wanna know how many people misses and wanted the 8 third Avenue elevated line to come back?
Extra subway elevated lines is definitely needed because they are definitely getting new subway cars. I totally agree with him 100 percent. They don't have to make to much noises anymore it could be quieter. Adleast encourage the man. It may not happen now but sooner or later it's definitely gonna happen. Don't y'all need extra subway elevated lines?
Third ave in the Bronx is in need of a rapid transit line to replace the old line that was removed in the early 70s express buses along the original route still has the buses on surface streets, the el didn’t get stuck in this traffic. A rebuilding of the el at the time was impossible because the city was in financial trouble and removed the line to save money by not having to maintain a line that wasn’t built to heavy duty standards.
They could deffenitly rebuilt the 8 third Avenue Elevated line in the south Bronx only in the south Bronx clearmont Webster Central Boston Bronx between Gun Hill Road and 140 street and under ground on third Avenue in Manhattan to Battery park place or south Ferry . They deffenitly have the technology to rebuilt the Brand. New third Avenue elevated line without making to much noiess anymore. Eventually they will deffenitly wind up rebuilding the Brand new third Avenue elevated line over the cross Bronx express highway I'm telling y'all.
Another thing is definitely gonna happen. The 3 trains passing the polo grounds buildings and concrete structures 155 street damp Bridge to connect to the 4 Jerome Ave line I'm telling y'all
Lots of great history and footage here--thank you! I would be interested to know more about support for Queenslink. I was under the impression that the parks proponents were winning and the hope for reactivating the rail line was diminishing.
An El that is needed: LaGuardia Airport connection to the N/W subway. Astoria/Ditmars residents might try to NIMBY it, but with continuously welded rail and modern quieter trains, it should be built.
The N W trains does not need to be digging under ground to LaGuardia Airport it could definitely be elevated concrete structures. The A trains does not need to go crossing the river to replacing the older Putnam railroad lines because they have the metro North railroad and the CXS fraight lines could definitely replacing the former Putnam to Getty square and Brewster North and pass croton harmen 49 miles and Chicago 2000 Miles the CXS fraight lines. The A trains is not a railroad it's a subway.if they want the A C trains being extended to the Bronx. They definitely need to have it elevated to 240 street connecting to the 1 9 Broadway lines in the west Bronx.
Keep bringing up the extra subway elevated lines and bring this to eyewitnesses news and chanel 12 news 📰 I'm very serious. This foolishness has to stop 🛑 for real.
Great video tbh the IBX should be extended one stop towards a new station at 50 street near 25 ave to connect the ibx to the Penn station portion of the New Haven line so people can get a ride from bay ridge all the way to New Haven how about that that will be a game changer
Goodnight sir . And thank-you once again for making us another awesome video sir. And yes that would've if the MTA would've go ahead Build more Elevated Subway and Commuter Railroad lines throughout the city. It would cut down on cost on the transit projects then creating a tunnel. Witch will cost alot more to build and create more traffic along the neighborhoods of the construction sir. Like IBX line. The MTA should've go ahead with Queenslink and not Queensway. Due to the connection to Airtrain at Howard Beach ⛱️ . Queenslink will cut Subway rides commute down by 10 or 15 minutes. The A train line has to travel through Brooklyn before it reaches Manhattan and Queenslink just continues straight through Queens to Manhattan sir. Also thanks for stepping on camera sir. 📷
I remember riding that big dark colored train in the early 70's. I can still remember how cushiony the seats were and the ceiling fans. Very nostalgic.
My philosophy is that if it possible to be built underground, it should be built underground. However, if it is not possible due to geography, cost, etc, build it elevated. I'd rather have it elevated than non-existent. Street running should be avoided whenever possible.
I wish the city bought the part of the NYWB between Hunts Point Ave and E 180th St and turned that into a shuttle, the Sheridan Shuttle, connecting the 2 and 5 trains with the 6 train in The Bronx.
Chicago is the king of the elevated lines. Anytime there is a suggestion to tear down an elevated line...it's been shouted down. Now we have an extension coming to one of our longest lines and it will be elevated...the Red line will be extended to very edge of the southside of the city.
My father was a trainman from the 1950’s back when the city still had the trolleys. I remember the 1964 World’s Fair in Corona/Flushing, Queens and the concept of the monorail was being introduced . The biggest challenge is that the best ideas for bringing NYC train systems up to speed seem to get lost, pushed aside and then too costly.
Can you make a video about how to improve the airport connections in NYC? Let’s say Queenslink is built out so you can run the M down to the Rockaways, wouldn’t it make sense to also run a branch to JFK taking over the AirTrain? Extension to LaGuardia, Newark etc. Great video btw!
I think most of the NYC airport commentary have been covered by other TH-camrs. I think you don't really need the M to take over the AirTrain. Most other systems make people get off a particular station, and take an airport people mover into a specific terminal. That is what the JFK AirTrain is. Though maybe you can integrate the LIRR with the AirTrain. But that is far in the future.
They are talking about the Els in Manhattan. When people speak of NYC, they forget about the outer boroughs and always think about Manhattan. If you count all of the Els we still have in the outer boroughs [Queens, Brooklyn and the Bronx] we have more EL tracks that any other city in the country!
Wow! I'm an HO East Coast Amtrak enthusiast in the New England area with an emphasis on New York structures and I never knew this about the subways. I only noticed that some areas are elevated and some are not. In building my subway model I've always wondered how to do my elevations and undergrounds. Now I know why i'm confused.
@@jointransitassociation OHHHH I didnt even realize I thought it was just a huge gap between intervale ave and Melrose Also btw what are your thoughts on a Metro North Penn Access station at Astoria Blvd to connect with the N/W (or R with Deinterling) and the M60 sbs bus I really like this since it would allow Astoria and LGA (especially with an Astoria extension THAT MUST HAPPEN) and allow eastern bronx residents into northwestern queen and heavily developed and gentrifying neighborhood of Astoria
Just a (few) Station in Manhattan are Above ground..and the Reason is part if Broadway [number 1 line] go down..so the train is Above Ground..and in Staten Island the train run at Street Level...
I have my own IRT (Inter Room Transit) line in my apartment. It runs from my living room, to my kitchen, into my bedroom, where it makes a sharp right into my bathroom, and loops around again. Best thing I ever did. My landlord is not too happy about it though😮
Then WE, New York City (a shot of John Hancock Center in Chicago) CAN DO IT! I assume he was gonna mention Chicago in the list of the cities that can do it :)
I grew up with elevated trains. My grandmother lived in apartment building with the train station being just across the street. Yea, noisy, but I got used to it and had no problem falling asleep. In fact, I looked forward to it. It’s like white noise at night. It blends in. My son lives in Coney Island. He’s been there 3+ years and can’t stand it. He never got used to it and curses it every time a train goes by, which is often.
I use to love riding the EL trian on jamaica Ave back in the day where you look through the train windows see everything above the roofs of people homes, apartments and business...one thing I've notive, i never seen any homeless on the EL Platform but only n the trains and subway stations.
I enjoyed this. It was a very concise history. I do contend that it was shortsighted to tear down the Third Avenue El before the Second Avenue Subway was built, despite the financial challenges. (You generally don't quit a job until you have a new one.) Including the history of the old trolley system and the decades-old proposals for new light rail would have been nice. Mayor de Blasio's proposal for the BXQ (Brooklyn-Queens Connector) for instance, is still a good idea in my opinion. With congestion pricing in place, light rail on Manhattan's crosstown streets should be more easily attainable.
Another aspect as to why elevated trains have appeal again is cost. When the Second Avenue Subway is running $2 BILLION/mile suddenly an elevated, pre-cast line doesn't sound or look too terrible doesn't it? I'm in Edmonton and the new Valley Line West project will be running at least two sections elevated including the station at West Edmonton Mall, formerly the world's largest shopping centre and the OG project from Triple Five owners of American Dream Mall aka Project Xanadu... In fact the pre-cast beams were built and elevated in a few months while the rest of the line at grade is taking forever. Ironic that simple street-running sections have now become the most problematic for both the contractors as well as the communities affected by construction rather than its elevated, pre-cast pier-beam sections...
The 8 Third Avenue elevated line will deffenitly be elevated in the south Bronx Gun Hill road Webster central Avenue clearmont . Never rebuilt another elevated line in Manhattan again. They are deffenitly studying rebuilding the brand new third Avenue elevated line back over the cross Bronx Express highway it will not have to make to much noises anymore. Keep mentioning about the extra subway elevated lines that had no business tearing down .
@@durece100 ck yes! Even elevated "tunnels" are used to sound-proof in other cities by creating sound barriers around the tracks. It also helps weather proof them from rain, snow and nice too! An added benefit...
The 8 third Avenue elevated line could be elevated in the south Bronx Tremont Webster clearmont Boston central Ave Bronx between Gun Hill road and 140 street third Avenue could definitely be running underground on third Ave to Battery park place or south Ferry connecting to the 1 9 R W trains.
Eventually they definitely gonna wind up rebuilding the 8 third Avenue elevated line back in the south Bronx Tremont Webster clearmont Boston road Bronx and under ground on third Ave I'm telling you.
The S train shuttle in Brooklyn is super pivotal in my commutes when I need to detour during Q train’s construction maintenance going into Atlantic Ave/Barclay’s.
There was a plan to link Brooklyn to Staten Island by rail across the narrows by connecting the end of the R train to the South Beach spur of the SIRT. but Mayor Hylan killed it. I read somewhere that work had started in Brooklyn but the started tunnel has not been found. Ironically, the longest street on Staten Island. is Hylan Blvd
I'm a proponent of elevated atm, idk if I buy your premise that NYC is already committing to building elevated (the 7 train has always been vital and the west extension is underground. Idea with IBX is to use existing ROW from railroad line, that it can be done quickly/easily/cheaply because the ROW is there - but existing ROW isn't underground). But there's one reason elevated is looking good rn - because building underground subways in NYC is way too costly - look what's happened with the 2nd Ave subway, how long & expensive. Hopefully they'll be able to make elevated trains quieter and cleaner - you make these points well.
I don’t think the IBX paralleling a freight railroad means anything. NIMBYs along the route have complained about the noise of freight trains for the longest time. These trains come by every few hours. So what makes you think the NIMBYs will back another train that will go by every 5 minutes? If anything, there should be a backlash towards this, but that never happened.
@@jointransitassociation The title of your video is 'Why NYC Is Building Elevated Trains Again' which I think isn't yet a statement that can be made. Your video talks about IBX as one of these (non underground lines) and my point was that the IBX plan didn't start around the concept of let's build a at-grade / elevated line, but, rather, it started because people have been working for years to develop another line through BK & Queens made up of mostly existing / former ROWs because this makes the project so much easier (cheaper, quicker) to do. As to why there wasn't a backlash against IBX despite you explain NIMBYs along the freight route had been complaining? If I live along that route and have to hear that sound all day it would annoy me - but if with that sound came incredible new transit connecting me to other parts of NYC which were previously only efficient by car, that would be a different story. Case in point I currently live in Quincy, MA and hear Boston's Red Line heavy rail and the commuter rail every few minutes; this is acceptable to me because I rely on those services and they increase the value of the real estate here.
@@DaveDaves "Your video talks about IBX as one of these (non underground lines) and my point was that the IBX plan didn't start around the concept of let's build a at-grade / elevated line, but, rather, it started because people have been working for years to develop another line through BK & Queens made up of mostly existing / former ROWs because this makes the project so much easier (cheaper, quicker) to do." But the IBX is an elevated/open cut line. And for NIMBYs and detractors of the project, that was all the matters for them to be out in the streets complaining. And that was the case for a while when the IBX was announced. "but if with that sound came incredible new transit connecting me to other parts of NYC which were previously only efficient by car, that would be a different story." And that was why there wasn't that much NIMBYism that came with the project. That was because the MTA explained constantly that the trains they want to use are not the same as freight trains. The trains they want to use are much quieter. The MTA also let local groups give input and feedback. My point is that is one of the most NIMBY neighborhoods out in the city can accept that and still champion that elevated train line right in their backyards, that is a formula that can replicated. And that formula was replicated successfully. Queenslink is another elevated rail proposal, and that thing has 70+ percent support. Many communities that initially championed to tear down the elevated regret that decision and would welcome the el they lost. So there is a tide turning, and communities are now open to building elevated rail, which is why the video is titled as such.
@@jointransitassociation I hear ya, what you're saying makes sense to me. I'm just trying not to get too optimistic about what will be actually built anytime soon. Second Ave subway .... (but I think we agree that the 2nd Av being underground in the first place is a reason why its been so slow & expensive)
It was wrong to remove 3rd and 2nd Avenue L's. At least 2nd Avenue L should have been kept. On East Side, we now have very crowded Lexington Line and very slow busses due to congestion. 2nd Avenue Subway will not be built in East Side Midtown and Downtown.
I'm an agent for PATH, I've been in love with trains since I was five years old, I've grew up riding trains including the MTA NYC Subway trains as (7) Train is my favorite line, and I'm for the Congestion Pricing. I do hope that the MTA does revisit the following projects since Congestion Pricing is fully implemented for the next MTA 2030-2034 Capital Plan. 1. Proposal of the Astoria Line (N), (W), extension to/from LaGuardia Airport in Queens. 2. Study the Queenslink subway in Queens. 3. Extend the (Q) Line to/from 125th Street at Broadway to provide a transfer to the (1) Train in Manhattan. 4. Extend the (4) train from Utica Avenue to/from Avenue U (Kings Plaza) in Brooklyn. 5. Extend the (1) to/from 261st Street-Riverdale in The Bronx. 6. Extend the (D) train to/from Co-Op City in The Bronx. 7. Extend the (J/Z) trains to/from Belmont Park-Bay Ridge in Queens. 8. Extend the (E) train to/from Rosedale in Queens. 9. Reinstate the (K) Train from 207th Street Inwood-Ozone Park Lefferts Boulevard to replace the (A) Train to better streamline the IND Lines. 10. Reinstate the (H) Train as Rockaway 116th Street-Broad Channel & Selective Rush Hour Express Service to/from 42nd Street Port Authority Bus Terminal (Lower Level) to replace the selected (A) Train (Rush Hour). 11. Extend the (G) Train to/from Jamaca-Parsons/Archer in Queens to/from Coney Island-Stillwell Avenue in Brooklyn. 12. Extend the (R) Train to/from Jamaca-179th Street in Queens. 13. (W) Train as a via Astoria Peak Express in Queens. 14. Peak Express between Jay Street/MetroTech & W. 8th Street-Aquarium in Brooklyn. 15. Extend the (3) Train from New Lots Avenue to/from Gateway Center in Brooklyn. 16. Reinstate the (9) Train as a peak skip stop service & extend to/from Waldo Avenue next to the yard in The Bronx. 17. Extend the (7) Train to/from 20th Avenue-College Point in Queens, 18. New (8) Subway Line to align the (7) Train Line to extend to/from 154th Street/Northern Boulevard in Queens. 19. Extend the Rush Hour Selected (W) Train via Sea Beach Line Express as a Peak Express in Brooklyn. 20. Simplify the (Z) Peak Express Train serving between Chambers Street-City Hall in Manhattan & Jamaca-Parsons/Archer in Queens to replace the selected (J) Peak Express Trains. 21. Reconstruct the Sea Beach Line Express Tracks into CBTC & reconstruct the Peak Express Stop Stations at New Utrecht Avenue Station to transfer the (D) Train & Kings Highway Station in Brooklyn. 22. Extend the proposal (T) train from Hanover Square to align with the (J/Z) Trains in Manhattan to/from 9th Avenue Station (Lower Level) to transfer the (D) Train in Brooklyn. 23. Reconstruct the Chambers Street-City Hall Station, Canal Street, & Bowery Street on the (J/Z) line abandon platforms. 24. Reinstate the (V) Train serving between Forest Hills in Queens, align the (G) Crosstown Line, construct section between Bedford Nostrand Avs Station to/from Franklin Avenue (Shuttle Station), to/from Prospect Park as a two track, and terminate at Brighten Beach in Brooklyn to replace the Franklin Avenue (Shuttle Train). 25. Construct a passageway between 63rd Street/Lexington Avenue (F)/(Q) Station & 59th Street (N), (R), (W), (6) Station to provide better transfer without having to exit the station to use the MetroCard/OMNY Card to re-enter the station. 26. Reconstruct the abandon 42nd Street Port Authority Bus Terminal Lower Level in Manhattan. 27. Reconstruct the Bergen Avenue & Carroll Street (F)/(G) Station (Lower Level) as an express stop station in Brooklyn. 28. Reconstruct a passageway on Marcy Avenue (J), (M), (Z) Station for better transfer to connect the Williamsburg Bridge Plaza Bus Terminal in Brooklyn. 29. Reconstruct a passageway between Queensboro Plaza (N), (W), (7) Station & Queens Plaza (E), (M), (R) Station in Queens to provide better transfers without having to leave the station to re-enter the station by using the MTA MetroCard/OMNY Card. 30. Reconstruct a passageway between 34th Street Penn Station (1), (2), (3) & 34th Street Herald Square Station (B), (D), (F), (M), (N), (Q), (R), (W), and to connect the 33rd Street PATH Station Terminal without having to exit the street level in Manhattan.
Replace the A train?! Hell to the no! The A train is thr MTA's flagship service; this is the train that made the entire subway system famous, and you want it eliminated?!
@CraigFThompson the only (A) Train branch should remain Is the Inwood 207th-Far Rockaway Mott Street which I never said that branch to be eliminated at all and the (A) Train branch for the Inwood 207th-Ozone Park Lefferts Blvd line should be rebrand as the (K) to simplify the IND line ID if that makes sense.
@@CraigFThompson it's interesting you brought it up, because back in the 1990s the C train used to service the Rockaway Peninsula which was discontinued, good gesture too extended to'from Ozone Park Lefferts Boulevard and have the (A) as the Flag Carrier train to/from Far Rockaway, but there's a TH-cam video based on that and I believe that would require additional reconstruction on the interlocking at Euclid Avenue which would be very expensive to execute.
I live in Vancouver BC, and our skytrain (elevated rail, the same tech the JFK Airtrain is equipped with) system is fast, frequent and automated. It only has three downsides, mostly owing to it being outside: - No platform edge doors, so sometimes people do fall into the track if the platform is crowded. There is no will to fix this until the MK 1 trains are retired. - All above-ground portions of the network are impacted by are once-a-year- snow day. The only time you see attendants manually driving the train is during severe weather to ensure the train doesn't get stuck or get struck by something that falls into the guideway - All outside platforms are cold in the winter and hot in the summer, and this makes people miserable if there is a delay, and the delay is often caused by people holding/charging at the doors and delaying the train. All the upsides, fast, frequent, automated are there from day 1, and the automated system has never been responsible for any deaths (by which we are talking about derailment or collision with other trains.) Notice I didn't mention noise in the "downsides", this is because the train is generally quiet, even when it's like 8 meters from the building's next to it. All the noise from the train is attributed two things: - Old rolling stock with worn wheels (caused by manual driving and over-application of the brakes) - curves not being banked enough so it causes steering noise. So the most complained portion about the train is this one curve right before the station that then enters the subway section under the downtown business district. This is something people can live with and can be abated with corrections to the track. "People hated them", yes, and this same sticking point is with us with the "Arbutus line" where at some point in the 80's the city put a moratorium on any elevated rail down this one former at-grade interurban line. People still complain, and thus the subway that is going across it, has to be a subway, but the second it hits arbutus, it's going back to elevated. I sure hope NYC embraces having a few modern (automated) Elevated lines, because they are both good ways to move people, and also appeal to tourists who would otherwise not spot things out the window near the station to stop into. Subways are cool, but their biggest drawback is they are only meant to move people, and tourists instead pick taxi's or renting a car when they want to look out the window. It's fine, but it's good to have both.
I live in Chicago where out of our 146 CTA rapid transit stations, only 21 are underground. The rest are either elevated or at grade level. The reason for this, I have read, is mostly due to cost. It is just less expensive to construct at grade or over ground than to dig a tunnel. The downside to something like this in Chicago is several, at least in my opinion. One is the noise generated by these trains which often run late into the evening. Another is the harsh winter climate. Yes, the above ground stations do often contain heating lamps but they do little to mitigate the brutal cold when the wind is blowing and it is 20 below zero. I am fortunate to reside next to one of the 21 subway stations on the CTA and my main stop for work is also underground. But I have access to the brown line which is all above grade too. During really bad weather I can see the benefit to the subway.
Even with all of the Els that were torn down in NYC [mainly in Manhattan], NYC still has more remaining elevated tracks than all of the ELs in Chicago. One way to keep warm in an elevated line is to have a waiting area in the station. Some of the older NYC Els [I'm thinking of the 1, 2 and 5 Line] have stations that open up to the platforms. You can wait inside the station and run outside when the train arrives. Those stations used to even have potbelly wood burning stoves. Unfortunately, those were removed. In Chicago, there is no waiting areas if I remember correctly. You have to wait on the exposed platform. As you note, they do have those heating lamps at least. We need heating lamps in NYC. NYC can be a great city, but it doesn't take the concerns of the public seriously. Now they have even started removing seating in subway stations!!! You have to stand while you wait for the train and if you are outside on an elevated station, freeze your butt off because we don't have heating lamps!
Good video. However, a subway / elevated extension needs to be built to Staten Island to connect the SIR, with the rest of NYC. When the Verrazano Narrows Bridge was in the design phase, the BMT Forth Ave Subway was originally supposed to come to Staten Island. But Robert Moses said NO to this idea. In the 1920's, there were two provisions to bring the Subway to Staten Island. The first one was a "spur" from the 59th St 4th Ave station on the current N & R line to Staten Island. Then the Forth Ave Line's southern terminal was moved from 86th Street, to 95th Street 4th Ave. This would have connected with the Staten Island Railroad with the now defunct East Shore Line.
Interesting, but a couple of points missed. The most important is about the Third Ave El. The city govenerment caved to eager / greedy developers who were banking on the El's removal to build up the area. They knew that the property values would skyrocket once the El was gone. The city government, in its infinite wisdom, allowed this to happen before proper provisions were in place--that is, a Second Ave subway which, though started, was stopped once the city went bankrupt. This was especially foolish since, after the devolopers had their way, the population soared due to all the new high-rises being built (those ugly, cookie-cutter "white brick" apartment buildings). The el would have eventually been removed, of course, but greed accelerated the process. Also, the removal of the Jamaical Ave El was not as unanimously lauded as you tend to believe. Many people (myself included) were fond of the line and lamented when it came down. Some older folks, especially in the uneasy 1970s, felt a little safer to be above ground than below. We lived on 95th Ave just a few blocks in from the Sutphin Blvd station. I have many happy memories of eating lunch with my family in the dark area below the tracks!
Great video. Please check the Metro Elevated Line that is under construction in Bogota, Colombia. And you will see that a beautiful and modern elevated metro line can be built in a crowded city.
I cannot believe the Astoria line doesn't go to Laguardia. That feels like such a slam dunk of a project. Like, the bus is fine but damn does that airport need a rail connection good god
I agree, but.... First proposed 1943, long history, costs enormous because area is residential, and predicted smallish ridership - I think only a minority of air passengers come to/go from Manhattan.
I’m not over them removing the Bronx portion of the IBX. It’s like they never fucking learn. Connecting the Bronx to Queens to Brooklyn is a nobrainer and would’ve economically improved all connected neighborhoods. Imagine getting on the train at Hunts Point and getting off at Chinatown in Queens much faster than it’d take to get to the one in Manhattan.
Interesting, I had no idea QueensLink was a thing, only had heard of the making it a trail, which a rail line would definitely would be more beneficial and functional than another park. Queens badly needs more north-south train options. Thanks to the people pushing for it
The debate is not about El lines vs Subways. The debate now, is about are the new proposed El lines going to be Subway trains or Lightrail lines? So now it comes down to less noise, cost and efficiency. Which would be best to utilize for each individual proposed lines.
Elevated and surface level trains are much cheaper and efficient to build with what builders know today. They can be made almost noiseless and more aesthetically looking.
Elevated trains are more economical to build. Viaducts level the line and if there are floods, the patrons are dry; why Chicago went up. NYC has a high water table, so a no brainer.
Yeah concrete els are very quite. We desperately need the N/W extension to LaGuardia. Maybe Broadway will finally get the respect it deserves. (We need R160s back on the N/W) Also if that happens, still keep the R on Forest Hills, and N/W. The N would be better for Airport users and the W provides filler without needing too much trains.
This may be the best JTA video yet, it feels like I’m watching a documentary from Smithsonian or National Geographic with the music, interviews (we got a surprising face reveal) and everything.
Thanks!
It is so much more pleasant to ride on a train with a view of its surroundings than be in a train in a dark tunnel
I'm a locomotive engineer for Metro-North, if you ever have any railroad questions just reach out! I also ran freight trains in New Jersey and Staten Island.
What are your thoughts on a rail connection to Staten Island? Aside from the obvious one connecting the SIRR to the NYC Subway by tunneling under the Verrazano Bridge, maybe utilizing the old North Shore Line to create a connection to Bayonne or Elizabeth.
Is it fun
Do you guys have work rules I’m a locomotive engineer for the LIRR and I might wanna switch one day
@ there is currently a rail connection via the Arthur Kill lift bridge, but it remains in the up position and only lowers for freight rail traffic 2 times a day. The channel is so busy that it must stay up. I think it’s not really that necessary for a passenger rail connection because the ferry is there. I however think they should expand the freight network.
Did you operate trains for csx.
The irony is all the NIMBY businessman who begged for the ELs to be torn down...most of those businesses lost their customers and shut down (See 3rd Ave El and Myrtle/Jamaica El articles). Well deserved Karma. Busses are a poor to laughable replacement for rapid rail transit.
Bingo
Miss the Jamaica el it would help me a lot the Jamaica avenue bus line comes every hour it seems
Not really. Buses can go anywhere. Here in Pittsburgh we have busways and the buses can go on there and miss all the traffic. Bit then they can also get off and go on regular roads and get you closer to where you need to go.
@@412StepUpThis is NYC. Traffic is everywhere
Bus ways are hard to make in the city
As a chicago native, I prefer riding an elevated like over a subway
The views alone make it worthwhile
A modern elevated system with enclosed platforms would be awesome
As a Chicago native, one of the problems with the L (especially in the Loop and River North) is that has the yoke of “Landmark Status.” We unfortunately cannot replace the El in the downtown core with quieter concrete L structures and viaducts used on the Orange Line and Newer parts of the Red Line. The worst blunder in the 1990s rehabilitation of the Green Line was keeping it a steel structure above East 63rd. Should’ve been replaced with concrete.
@bkark0935 yea, landmarking critical infrastructure is a mistake
@@bkark0935No. That's not a mistake at all. They can still put "floating" tracks on the steel viaducts. An example of this is the Berlin U1 line. Where the viaduct is strong enough, they can even put an entire concrete *slab* to for the track deck, which was done right here in America in Philadelphia on the Frankford side of the Market-Frankford Line. Chigago just cheaped out on putting rubber isolators under the ties, similar to engine mounts in automobiles to reduce in noise and vibration.
What is an ‘elevated like’?!
Taipei Brown line my beloved
I was at the meeting where the 1986 MTA proposed to shut down the White Plains #2 line north of 180th St and replace it with buses.. The venue in the Bronx where the meeting was held was packed to overflowing capacity with outraged people demanding the El to remain. The first words the officials uttered at the meet was that the El will be untouched. And they had to repeat themselves before the angry crowd.
@@hhvictor2462 What MTA should’ve done was rebuilt the crossover junction north of 180th Street and Built a proper flying Junction than anything. Same with rebuilding Myrtle Av Broadway. Build an actually proper flying junction…
@@TiagoGomez-hb9te There was short lived movement early 1980s called "planned shrinkage" which basically means all services reduced to cut costs based on fake stats. I don't believe the MTA was in a mood to build anything at that time. Btw the authors of that scheme later disowned it.
In 1970; Bronx local business owners and politicians, had a meeting at our local high school.
Amazingly they were urging, local citizens and graduating students, to support their stupid idea of tearing down the third avenue El.
This at a time when the ridership of the third avenue l was reaching an old-time high again.
It shows, who had the real influence, (the local politicians and business owners, who had businesses, under the 3rd avenue El), and saw to the demolition of the third avenue El.
The public did not want the demolition of the Third avenue El.
They wanted to shutdown the #5 line north of East 180 St as well in the late 80’s. The MTA claimed that there were stations that were in disrepair and there was no money to repair them. Plus, there was low ridership on the Dyre Avenue line. Under protest, 3 stations on the line (Baychester Ave, Gun Hill Rd, and Morris Park) were all renovated in the early 90’s and the shutdown never happened.
Transit doesnt go down without a fight!
We all need to come together as people and convince/ persuade the mta to get these important projects started, this will definitely b beneficial to all commuters. We need to turn dreams into reality
As a person who used to live in NYC but now lives in the Miami suburbs, honestly elevateds are pretty cool.
And nice face reveal!
But they ruin the street environment below.
@@robertewalt7789first of all I completely disagree with you, secondly, modern Els are very different
@@robertewalt7789changing is not the same as ruining - the loop is probably the single most iconic aspect of Chicago, even though it’s monolithic, old, and very noisy.
Yes, I honestly feel that elevated lines don't get enough love due to how notoriously noisy they are. But truly I believe the benefits of els rule out the noise problem.
@@theevilmoppet Agreed!
Your content keeps getting better and better
Thanks!
Keep bringing up the extra subway elevated lines because it's definitely needed. Put this on the News and Google all as well. I'm very glad the both of y'all are definitely working together and doing the old subway elevated lines videos 📸 and showing the 8 third Avenue elevated line and all the extra subway elevated lines is definitely needed again.
I like how this setup. No more hiding behind the voice
Fr
Those three people weren't nice people in offices and taking positions in offices did not give a shit about not keeping no extra subway elevated transportations lines running
The city is definitely not broke anymore. Those three people are long gone. We definitely need to go fourth and bring some extra subway elevated lines back
You definitely wanna know who suffers the most. The people.
You definitely wanna know who suffers the most. The people.
I'll love to see More Elevated lines, Queenslink, Utica Av Subway, SAS, Southeast Queens, Subway to SI, and Better Frequency on the Subway
I prefer they send the E down Broadway - Utica Av in Bkyln
The 8 third Avenue elevated line back in south Bronx Tremont Webster clearmont Boston central Ave Bronx and under ground on third Ave to Battery park place or south Ferry connecting to the 1 9 R W trains. Including the culture 3rd Avenue elevated in Brooklyn and ninth Avenue elevated line in the Bronx Jerome Ave.
I definitely prefer the 8 third Avenue elevated line in the south Bronx Tremont Webster clearmont Boston central Ave and south Ferry under ground connecting to the 1 9 R W trains and the ninth Avenue elevated line in the Bronx for the 3 Broadway line connecting to the 4 Jerome Ave line to Burnside Jerome Ave
Mayor Adams needs to go. Queensway needs to go.
Queenslink needs to be built. Asap. 💯
We need that Queenslink, Say No to Queensway
Agreed. Nobody wants Queensway but Adams and his NIMBY friends.
As a MTA employee I agree!!! Give the people what they need. Expand and fix this system!!
@@leonjohnson1824 Boo Queensway! Go Queenslink!!! That area doesn't need a knock off high line.
Agreed, I’m sure central queens needs a new and faster way into manhattan. Secondly they need to stop slapping high price tags on projects which is unnecessary
this is excellent man !! thank you for your research and precision. Like a true historian.
I live next to the elevated M at Myrtle-Wyckoff. The line runs over Myrtle from Broadway where it joins the J/Z. The city has been deplorable in maintaining the infrastructure and it took lots of community effort in Bushwick to get the MTA to look at all the lead paint chipping off of the el and turning to dust over time. Come look at the "fix" along Myrtle. I'm unsure of what the next stage will be, but all lines need to have preventive maintenance scheduled and budgeted as non-negotiables.
Great Video!
Please continue being vocally supportive of a proper IBX connection to 74th St/Jackson Heights-Roosevelt Ave station. Like the tunnel you proposed with a station underneath 73rd st, under the QBL platform.
I just finished watching this video and it was the first video I've ever seen from the creator. I want to thank you for your time and the effort that was put into this video and I find it simply amazing. Keep up the great work and I became a subscriber today. I will now watch your videos and catch up with your older stuff. Thanks again for doing what you do ❤️🙏🏻🇺🇸
You cooked, this is by far the best video you've made so far(in my opinion).
Very nice work, I can tell you worked hard on this video! 🔥
This has to be one of your best videos, I liked the documentary type format and to put a face to the voice of all the videos. Happy new year!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Face reveal! 😊 I didn't know you were of East Asian heritage; I had always perceived you as a US native-born Irish American townie from Boston.
And Mr. Vanshnookenraggen appeared, too, presenting an update for Queenslink. I hope Queenslink gets built even if the foundations and concrete pylons are built first under a Queensway project.
I thought I was the only one 😭
LMFAO
Sameeeeeeeee I had no idea he looked like that XD
Same
lol if you seen their instagram channel you wouldn’t be surprised
I never understood how people who decided to live in a city complain about nose. I was born and raised in Brownsville, Brooklyn and the building I grew up in (Tilden Projects) is right next to the 3 Train on Livonia Ave elevated and I use to love seeing the trains go by from my 10 story apartment as a kid.
BTW: Those older, lighter elevated structures that were torn down here in New York could have been saved and later converted into light rail, like what happened in London when they took some of their abandoned elevated structures around their Docklands area to create the Docklands Light Rail (DLR), especially in the outer boroughs.
I enjoyed reading your comment - I lived in the Howard Houses from the time they opened until the early 70s. I now live in Bay Ridge and hope to be around to benefit from the proposed BQX light rail line. It would certainly shorten my occasional trips to Queens. Be well.
@@henrygonzalez8793 Brownsville BROWNSVILLE! Is in the house!
I agree! The Els in my opinion are not ugly at all. All of those Els that were torn down in Manhattan had beautiful Swiss style stations. They were charming. NYC made a lot of mistakes. By the way, I heard that a lot of the pressure to remove the Els were from greedy real estate moguls hoping to develop areas. It wasn't all those disgusting NIMBYs. It was greed too.
@@henrygonzalez8793 Brownsville stand up!
Yea but the 7 train is really noisy if you’re walking underneath it. If they can make them quieter that would be great. Don’t get ride of the 7 no matter what though.
I like the new style of the video.
Great history lesson! I really enjoyed learning more about the elevated lines and about the IBX.
Glad you liked it!
The emphasis on community outreach and communication as a way to combat NIMBYism is immensely important and I'm glad that got a mention. There's a prevalent attitude that NIMBYism is something to be ignored, shunned and opposed, yet this only creates more issues as people become disenfranchised and less likely to work with planners.
Exactly! The reason why Phil Eng, Randy Clarke, and Andy Byford are so popular are thanks in part to their transparency. They communicate what is going on and they are extremely visible to the public.
This documentary was put together wonderfully! Great job, and thank you for posting this 😊
I just came across this channel. These videos are incredibly well edited. I was aware of the separate transit authorities which existed long ago but didn't know intricacies such as why the IND was introduced. Thanks. Subscription added.
Thank you. I have learned a lot about New York City's elevated train lines!
Great video!
Two requests:
A: Please use your video camera to record voice overs. The sound quality is superior as compared to what you are using for the voice overs
B: If possible, always prioritize audio when doing interviews. If you are on a limited bandwidth, set the video to a potato slideshow to ensure full audio quality. Or better, do the interview with a low quality while both ends record locally with high quality, and afterwards transfer the high quality recording and sync them up and whatnot in editing.
The intro was awesome! Whole video was insightful and interesting, too.
I love elevated trains. It gives so much personality to a city. I really love walking around Chicago and seeing all those trains rumbling. There is noise, yes, but it's not as bad as you might think. And you actually get used to it. My cousins live in a house really, really close to an el station that runs 24 hours a day, and when I stayed it wasn't terrible. Plus today glass can do marvelous things to mitigate a lot of the noise. I hope nyc goes that route and brings back new el routes.
Gives a great view of the city
The 8 third Avenue elevated line is definitely missing in the south Bronx Tremont Webster clearmont Boston road central Ave Bronx. You definitely wanna know how many people misses and wanted the 8 third Avenue elevated line to come back?
Actually, I'd consider JFK Air train to be New York City's first El of the 21st century because of its mostly elevated trackage.
YOO face reveal. (Edit: Where’s the top hat attached to your head?)
Exactly man I was doing word search and I had to stop what I did “ hold hold up, I didn’t know that was him. “
i knew bro was asian
Extra subway elevated lines is definitely needed because they are definitely getting new subway cars. I totally agree with him 100 percent. They don't have to make to much noises anymore it could be quieter. Adleast encourage the man. It may not happen now but sooner or later it's definitely gonna happen. Don't y'all need extra subway elevated lines?
Great video
Third ave in the Bronx is in need of a rapid transit line to replace the old line that was removed in the early 70s express buses along the original route still has the buses on surface streets, the el didn’t get stuck in this traffic. A rebuilding of the el at the time was impossible because the city was in financial trouble and removed the line to save money by not having to maintain a line that wasn’t built to heavy duty standards.
They could deffenitly rebuilt the 8 third Avenue Elevated line in the south Bronx only in the south Bronx clearmont Webster Central Boston Bronx between Gun Hill Road and 140 street and under ground on third Avenue in Manhattan to Battery park place or south Ferry . They deffenitly have the technology to rebuilt the Brand. New third Avenue elevated line without making to much noiess anymore. Eventually they will deffenitly wind up rebuilding the Brand new third Avenue elevated line over the cross Bronx express highway I'm telling y'all.
Another thing is definitely gonna happen. The 3 trains passing the polo grounds buildings and concrete structures 155 street damp Bridge to connect to the 4 Jerome Ave line I'm telling y'all
Lots of great history and footage here--thank you! I would be interested to know more about support for Queenslink. I was under the impression that the parks proponents were winning and the hope for reactivating the rail line was diminishing.
Without watching this yet, the main reason is cost. It costs a lot less than it is to dig underground.
An El that is needed: LaGuardia Airport connection to the N/W subway. Astoria/Ditmars residents might try to NIMBY it, but with continuously welded rail and modern quieter trains, it should be built.
The N W trains does not need to be digging under ground to LaGuardia Airport it could definitely be elevated concrete structures. The A trains does not need to go crossing the river to replacing the older Putnam railroad lines because they have the metro North railroad and the CXS fraight lines could definitely replacing the former Putnam to Getty square and Brewster North and pass croton harmen 49 miles and Chicago 2000 Miles the CXS fraight lines. The A trains is not a railroad it's a subway.if they want the A C trains being extended to the Bronx. They definitely need to have it elevated to 240 street connecting to the 1 9 Broadway lines in the west Bronx.
You're doing great work! Keep at it!
Keep bringing up the extra subway elevated lines and bring this to eyewitnesses news and chanel 12 news 📰 I'm very serious. This foolishness has to stop 🛑 for real.
Amazing he showed his face for the first time ever
I remember the capital plan of the 80s and seeing the 7ave line getting rebuilt
I wish that we could get elevated rail lines here in Toronto.
Y'all deffenitly gonna get elevated lines or light rail lines in Toronto I'm telling you .
I've always preferred taking the train on an El like the D on West End or N on an open cut line like Sea Beach.
The Brighton line is the best in those regards; there's tunnel, trench, and elevated----four tracks t'boot!
@CraigFThompson agreed
Great video tbh the IBX should be extended one stop towards a new station at 50 street near 25 ave to connect the ibx to the Penn station portion of the New Haven line so people can get a ride from bay ridge all the way to New Haven how about that that will be a game changer
First shot is 110th 8th ave👌🏾. Just being born and raised in Harlem, I can tell a lot of the parts that were recorded from the 9th ave El uptown.
Goodnight sir . And thank-you once again for making us another awesome video sir. And yes that would've if the MTA would've go ahead Build more Elevated Subway and Commuter Railroad lines throughout the city. It would cut down on cost on the transit projects then creating a tunnel. Witch will cost alot more to build and create more traffic along the neighborhoods of the construction sir. Like IBX line. The MTA should've go ahead with Queenslink and not Queensway. Due to the connection to Airtrain at Howard Beach ⛱️ . Queenslink will cut Subway rides commute down by 10 or 15 minutes. The A train line has to travel through Brooklyn before it reaches Manhattan and Queenslink just continues straight through Queens to Manhattan sir. Also thanks for stepping on camera sir. 📷
I remember riding that big dark colored train in the early 70's. I can still remember how cushiony the seats were and the ceiling fans. Very nostalgic.
My philosophy is that if it possible to be built underground, it should be built underground. However, if it is not possible due to geography, cost, etc, build it elevated. I'd rather have it elevated than non-existent. Street running should be avoided whenever possible.
I wish the city bought the part of the NYWB between Hunts Point Ave and E 180th St and turned that into a shuttle, the Sheridan Shuttle, connecting the 2 and 5 trains with the 6 train in The Bronx.
Chicago is the king of the elevated lines. Anytime there is a suggestion to tear down an elevated line...it's been shouted down. Now we have an extension coming to one of our longest lines and it will be elevated...the Red line will be extended to very edge of the southside of the city.
Yo quality went up. This was great
My father was a trainman from the 1950’s back when the city still had the trolleys. I remember the 1964 World’s Fair in Corona/Flushing, Queens and the concept of the monorail was being introduced . The biggest challenge is that the best ideas for bringing NYC train systems up to speed seem to get lost, pushed aside and then too costly.
Good video💪
Can you make a video about how to improve the airport connections in NYC? Let’s say Queenslink is built out so you can run the M down to the Rockaways, wouldn’t it make sense to also run a branch to JFK taking over the AirTrain? Extension to LaGuardia, Newark etc. Great video btw!
I think most of the NYC airport commentary have been covered by other TH-camrs. I think you don't really need the M to take over the AirTrain. Most other systems make people get off a particular station, and take an airport people mover into a specific terminal. That is what the JFK AirTrain is.
Though maybe you can integrate the LIRR with the AirTrain. But that is far in the future.
Great video.
Well informed and insightful.
it’s funny to hear about the els in the past tense when i live like 100 feet from the J train tracks haha
They are talking about the Els in Manhattan. When people speak of NYC, they forget about the outer boroughs and always think about Manhattan. If you count all of the Els we still have in the outer boroughs [Queens, Brooklyn and the Bronx] we have more EL tracks that any other city in the country!
Well done!
Wow! I'm an HO East Coast Amtrak enthusiast in the New England area with an emphasis on New York structures and I never knew this about the subways. I only noticed that some areas are elevated and some are not. In building my subway model I've always wondered how to do my elevations and undergrounds. Now I know why i'm confused.
NEW PEAK JTA VIDEO (also pls add a 3rd ave station with the ibx extension to the bronx the central bronx needs it)
Thanks! Also, my plans for the IBX Bronx extension would have a station at 3rd Ave.
@jointransitassociation huh last I checked from your IBX video there wasnt a 3rd Avenue station
@@finaliest It is called Melorse. One end would be closer to Metro North, the other end would closer to 3rd Ave.
@@jointransitassociation OHHHH I didnt even realize I thought it was just a huge gap between intervale ave and Melrose
Also btw what are your thoughts on a Metro North Penn Access station at Astoria Blvd to connect with the N/W (or R with Deinterling) and the M60 sbs bus I really like this since it would allow Astoria and LGA (especially with an Astoria extension THAT MUST HAPPEN) and allow eastern bronx residents into northwestern queen and heavily developed and gentrifying neighborhood of Astoria
You deffenitly wanna know how meny people wants this 8 third Avenue elevated line to be rebuilt again?.
I love the El it gives NYC it's identity ❤
Way overdue in outer boroughs like Queens , Staten Island and Brooklyn.
Just a (few) Station in Manhattan are Above ground..and the Reason is part if Broadway [number 1 line] go down..so the train is Above Ground..and in Staten Island the train run at Street Level...
I have my own IRT (Inter Room Transit) line in my apartment. It runs from my living room, to my kitchen, into my bedroom, where it makes a sharp right into my bathroom, and loops around again. Best thing I ever did. My landlord is not too happy about it though😮
24:59 this is a shot of Chicago lol.
Then WE, New York City (a shot of John Hancock Center in Chicago) CAN DO IT!
I assume he was gonna mention Chicago in the list of the cities that can do it :)
@@michalvarga8515 Exactly what I thought, and when he didn't mention Chicago, then I knew he made a video mistake there...
And immediately before it is a shot of a train from from Brisbane, Australia
I grew up with elevated trains. My grandmother lived in apartment building with the train station being just across the street. Yea, noisy, but I got used to it and had no problem falling asleep. In fact, I looked forward to it. It’s like white noise at night. It blends in. My son lives in Coney Island. He’s been there 3+ years and can’t stand it. He never got used to it and curses it every time a train goes by, which is often.
I use to love riding the EL trian on jamaica Ave back in the day where you look through the train windows see everything above the roofs of people homes, apartments and business...one thing I've notive, i never seen any homeless on the EL Platform but only n the trains and subway stations.
I would love to see more elevated trains again, but too bad it can’t be in Manhattan
Manhattan is too dense
I enjoyed this. It was a very concise history. I do contend that it was shortsighted to tear down the Third Avenue El before the Second Avenue Subway was built, despite the financial challenges. (You generally don't quit a job until you have a new one.) Including the history of the old trolley system and the decades-old proposals for new light rail would have been nice. Mayor de Blasio's proposal for the BXQ (Brooklyn-Queens Connector) for instance, is still a good idea in my opinion. With congestion pricing in place, light rail on Manhattan's crosstown streets should be more easily attainable.
Another aspect as to why elevated trains have appeal again is cost. When the Second Avenue Subway is running $2 BILLION/mile suddenly an elevated, pre-cast line doesn't sound or look too terrible doesn't it? I'm in Edmonton and the new Valley Line West project will be running at least two sections elevated including the station at West Edmonton Mall, formerly the world's largest shopping centre and the OG project from Triple Five owners of American Dream Mall aka Project Xanadu... In fact the pre-cast beams were built and elevated in a few months while the rest of the line at grade is taking forever. Ironic that simple street-running sections have now become the most problematic for both the contractors as well as the communities affected by construction rather than its elevated, pre-cast pier-beam sections...
The 8 Third Avenue elevated line will deffenitly be elevated in the south Bronx Gun Hill road Webster central Avenue clearmont . Never rebuilt another elevated line in Manhattan again. They are deffenitly studying rebuilding the brand new third Avenue elevated line back over the cross Bronx Express highway it will not have to make to much noises anymore. Keep mentioning about the extra subway elevated lines that had no business tearing down .
Now I’m desperate for the Third Avenue EL revival for the Bronx
Only if MTA build a sound-proof elevated train to reduce noise.
@@durece100 ck yes! Even elevated "tunnels" are used to sound-proof in other cities by creating sound barriers around the tracks. It also helps weather proof them from rain, snow and nice too! An added benefit...
The 8 third Avenue elevated line could be elevated in the south Bronx Tremont Webster clearmont Boston central Ave Bronx between Gun Hill road and 140 street third Avenue could definitely be running underground on third Ave to Battery park place or south Ferry connecting to the 1 9 R W trains.
Eventually they definitely gonna wind up rebuilding the 8 third Avenue elevated line back in the south Bronx Tremont Webster clearmont Boston road Bronx and under ground on third Ave I'm telling you.
The S train shuttle in Brooklyn is super pivotal in my commutes when I need to detour during Q train’s construction maintenance going into Atlantic Ave/Barclay’s.
I'm 50 years old. Born, raised, and currently resides in NYC. I never knew there was a 3rd Ave EL in Manhattan.
There was a plan to link Brooklyn to Staten Island by rail across the narrows by connecting the end of the R train to the South Beach spur of the SIRT. but Mayor Hylan killed it. I read somewhere that work had started in Brooklyn but the started tunnel has not been found. Ironically, the longest street on Staten Island. is Hylan Blvd
24:50 a Queensland Rail train snuck in there! Thanks for the Brisbane, Australia representation
I'm a proponent of elevated atm, idk if I buy your premise that NYC is already committing to building elevated (the 7 train has always been vital and the west extension is underground. Idea with IBX is to use existing ROW from railroad line, that it can be done quickly/easily/cheaply because the ROW is there - but existing ROW isn't underground). But there's one reason elevated is looking good rn - because building underground subways in NYC is way too costly - look what's happened with the 2nd Ave subway, how long & expensive. Hopefully they'll be able to make elevated trains quieter and cleaner - you make these points well.
I don’t think the IBX paralleling a freight railroad means anything. NIMBYs along the route have complained about the noise of freight trains for the longest time. These trains come by every few hours. So what makes you think the NIMBYs will back another train that will go by every 5 minutes? If anything, there should be a backlash towards this, but that never happened.
@@jointransitassociation The title of your video is 'Why NYC Is Building Elevated Trains Again' which I think isn't yet a statement that can be made. Your video talks about IBX as one of these (non underground lines) and my point was that the IBX plan didn't start around the concept of let's build a at-grade / elevated line, but, rather, it started because people have been working for years to develop another line through BK & Queens made up of mostly existing / former ROWs because this makes the project so much easier (cheaper, quicker) to do. As to why there wasn't a backlash against IBX despite you explain NIMBYs along the freight route had been complaining? If I live along that route and have to hear that sound all day it would annoy me - but if with that sound came incredible new transit connecting me to other parts of NYC which were previously only efficient by car, that would be a different story. Case in point I currently live in Quincy, MA and hear Boston's Red Line heavy rail and the commuter rail every few minutes; this is acceptable to me because I rely on those services and they increase the value of the real estate here.
@@DaveDaves
"Your video talks about IBX as one of these (non underground lines) and my point was that the IBX plan didn't start around the concept of let's build a at-grade / elevated line, but, rather, it started because people have been working for years to develop another line through BK & Queens made up of mostly existing / former ROWs because this makes the project so much easier (cheaper, quicker) to do."
But the IBX is an elevated/open cut line. And for NIMBYs and detractors of the project, that was all the matters for them to be out in the streets complaining. And that was the case for a while when the IBX was announced.
"but if with that sound came incredible new transit connecting me to other parts of NYC which were previously only efficient by car, that would be a different story."
And that was why there wasn't that much NIMBYism that came with the project. That was because the MTA explained constantly that the trains they want to use are not the same as freight trains. The trains they want to use are much quieter. The MTA also let local groups give input and feedback. My point is that is one of the most NIMBY neighborhoods out in the city can accept that and still champion that elevated train line right in their backyards, that is a formula that can replicated.
And that formula was replicated successfully. Queenslink is another elevated rail proposal, and that thing has 70+ percent support. Many communities that initially championed to tear down the elevated regret that decision and would welcome the el they lost. So there is a tide turning, and communities are now open to building elevated rail, which is why the video is titled as such.
@@jointransitassociation I hear ya, what you're saying makes sense to me. I'm just trying not to get too optimistic about what will be actually built anytime soon. Second Ave subway .... (but I think we agree that the 2nd Av being underground in the first place is a reason why its been so slow & expensive)
It was wrong to remove 3rd and 2nd Avenue L's. At least 2nd Avenue L should have been kept. On East Side, we now have very crowded Lexington Line and very slow busses due to congestion. 2nd Avenue Subway will not be built in East Side Midtown and Downtown.
Don't let these nimbys from prevent any elevated train project.
The extra subway elevated lines is deffenitly needed because we have the city coming back strong and its deffenitly picking back up I'm telling you.
I'm an agent for PATH, I've been in love with trains since I was five years old, I've grew up riding trains including the MTA NYC Subway trains as (7) Train is my favorite line, and I'm for the Congestion Pricing. I do hope that the MTA does revisit the following projects since Congestion Pricing is fully implemented for the next MTA 2030-2034 Capital Plan.
1. Proposal of the Astoria Line (N), (W), extension to/from LaGuardia Airport in Queens.
2. Study the Queenslink subway in Queens.
3. Extend the (Q) Line to/from 125th Street at Broadway to provide a transfer to the (1) Train in Manhattan.
4. Extend the (4) train from Utica Avenue to/from Avenue U (Kings Plaza) in Brooklyn.
5. Extend the (1) to/from 261st Street-Riverdale in The Bronx.
6. Extend the (D) train to/from Co-Op City in The Bronx.
7. Extend the (J/Z) trains to/from Belmont Park-Bay Ridge in Queens.
8. Extend the (E) train to/from Rosedale in Queens.
9. Reinstate the (K) Train from 207th Street Inwood-Ozone Park Lefferts Boulevard to replace the (A) Train to better streamline the IND Lines.
10. Reinstate the (H) Train as Rockaway 116th Street-Broad Channel & Selective Rush Hour Express Service to/from 42nd Street Port Authority Bus Terminal (Lower Level) to replace the selected (A) Train (Rush Hour).
11. Extend the (G) Train to/from Jamaca-Parsons/Archer in Queens to/from Coney Island-Stillwell Avenue in Brooklyn.
12. Extend the (R) Train to/from Jamaca-179th Street in Queens.
13. (W) Train as a via Astoria Peak Express in Queens.
14. Peak Express between Jay Street/MetroTech & W. 8th Street-Aquarium in Brooklyn.
15. Extend the (3) Train from New Lots Avenue to/from Gateway Center in Brooklyn.
16. Reinstate the (9) Train as a peak skip stop service & extend to/from Waldo Avenue next to the yard in The Bronx.
17. Extend the (7) Train to/from 20th Avenue-College Point in Queens,
18. New (8) Subway Line to align the (7) Train Line to extend to/from 154th Street/Northern Boulevard in Queens.
19. Extend the Rush Hour Selected (W) Train via Sea Beach Line Express as a Peak Express in Brooklyn.
20. Simplify the (Z) Peak Express Train serving between Chambers Street-City Hall in Manhattan & Jamaca-Parsons/Archer in Queens to replace the selected (J) Peak Express Trains.
21. Reconstruct the Sea Beach Line Express Tracks into CBTC & reconstruct the Peak Express Stop Stations at New Utrecht Avenue Station to transfer the (D) Train & Kings Highway Station in Brooklyn.
22. Extend the proposal (T) train from Hanover Square to align with the (J/Z) Trains in Manhattan to/from 9th Avenue Station (Lower Level) to transfer the (D) Train in Brooklyn.
23. Reconstruct the Chambers Street-City Hall Station, Canal Street, & Bowery Street on the (J/Z) line abandon platforms.
24. Reinstate the (V) Train serving between Forest Hills in Queens, align the (G) Crosstown Line, construct section between Bedford
Nostrand Avs Station to/from Franklin Avenue (Shuttle Station), to/from Prospect Park as a two track, and terminate at Brighten Beach in Brooklyn to replace the Franklin Avenue (Shuttle Train).
25. Construct a passageway between 63rd Street/Lexington Avenue (F)/(Q) Station & 59th Street (N), (R), (W), (6) Station to provide better transfer without having to exit the station to use the MetroCard/OMNY Card to re-enter the station.
26. Reconstruct the abandon 42nd Street Port Authority Bus Terminal Lower Level in Manhattan.
27. Reconstruct the Bergen Avenue & Carroll Street (F)/(G) Station (Lower Level) as an express stop station in Brooklyn.
28. Reconstruct a passageway on Marcy Avenue (J), (M), (Z) Station for better transfer to connect the Williamsburg Bridge Plaza Bus Terminal in Brooklyn.
29. Reconstruct a passageway between Queensboro Plaza (N), (W), (7) Station & Queens Plaza (E), (M), (R) Station in Queens to provide better transfers without having to leave the station to re-enter the station by using the MTA MetroCard/OMNY Card.
30. Reconstruct a passageway between 34th Street Penn Station (1), (2), (3) & 34th Street Herald Square Station (B), (D), (F), (M), (N), (Q), (R), (W), and to connect the 33rd Street PATH Station Terminal without having to exit the street level in Manhattan.
Replace the A train?! Hell to the no!
The A train is thr MTA's flagship service; this is the train that made the entire subway system famous, and you want it eliminated?!
@CraigFThompson the only (A) Train branch should remain Is the Inwood 207th-Far Rockaway Mott Street which I never said that branch to be eliminated at all and the (A) Train branch for the Inwood 207th-Ozone Park Lefferts Blvd line should be rebrand as the (K) to simplify the IND line ID if that makes sense.
@carlos.a.sanchez201 Why not just keep the C train and send it to Lefferts, and have the A train handle both terminals on the Rockaway Peninsula?!
@@CraigFThompson it's interesting you brought it up, because back in the 1990s the C train used to service the Rockaway Peninsula which was discontinued, good gesture too extended to'from Ozone Park Lefferts Boulevard and have the (A) as the Flag Carrier train to/from Far Rockaway, but there's a TH-cam video based on that and I believe that would require additional reconstruction on the interlocking at Euclid Avenue which would be very expensive to execute.
I live in Vancouver BC, and our skytrain (elevated rail, the same tech the JFK Airtrain is equipped with) system is fast, frequent and automated. It only has three downsides, mostly owing to it being outside:
- No platform edge doors, so sometimes people do fall into the track if the platform is crowded. There is no will to fix this until the MK 1 trains are retired.
- All above-ground portions of the network are impacted by are once-a-year- snow day. The only time you see attendants manually driving the train is during severe weather to ensure the train doesn't get stuck or get struck by something that falls into the guideway
- All outside platforms are cold in the winter and hot in the summer, and this makes people miserable if there is a delay, and the delay is often caused by people holding/charging at the doors and delaying the train.
All the upsides, fast, frequent, automated are there from day 1, and the automated system has never been responsible for any deaths (by which we are talking about derailment or collision with other trains.) Notice I didn't mention noise in the "downsides", this is because the train is generally quiet, even when it's like 8 meters from the building's next to it. All the noise from the train is attributed two things:
- Old rolling stock with worn wheels (caused by manual driving and over-application of the brakes)
- curves not being banked enough so it causes steering noise. So the most complained portion about the train is this one curve right before the station that then enters the subway section under the downtown business district. This is something people can live with and can be abated with corrections to the track.
"People hated them", yes, and this same sticking point is with us with the "Arbutus line" where at some point in the 80's the city put a moratorium on any elevated rail down this one former at-grade interurban line. People still complain, and thus the subway that is going across it, has to be a subway, but the second it hits arbutus, it's going back to elevated.
I sure hope NYC embraces having a few modern (automated) Elevated lines, because they are both good ways to move people, and also appeal to tourists who would otherwise not spot things out the window near the station to stop into. Subways are cool, but their biggest drawback is they are only meant to move people, and tourists instead pick taxi's or renting a car when they want to look out the window. It's fine, but it's good to have both.
I live in Chicago where out of our 146 CTA rapid transit stations, only 21 are underground. The rest are either elevated or at grade level. The reason for this, I have read, is mostly due to cost. It is just less expensive to construct at grade or over ground than to dig a tunnel. The downside to something like this in Chicago is several, at least in my opinion. One is the noise generated by these trains which often run late into the evening. Another is the harsh winter climate. Yes, the above ground stations do often contain heating lamps but they do little to mitigate the brutal cold when the wind is blowing and it is 20 below zero. I am fortunate to reside next to one of the 21 subway stations on the CTA and my main stop for work is also underground. But I have access to the brown line which is all above grade too. During really bad weather I can see the benefit to the subway.
Even with all of the Els that were torn down in NYC [mainly in Manhattan], NYC still has more remaining elevated tracks than all of the ELs in Chicago. One way to keep warm in an elevated line is to have a waiting area in the station. Some of the older NYC Els [I'm thinking of the 1, 2 and 5 Line] have stations that open up to the platforms. You can wait inside the station and run outside when the train arrives. Those stations used to even have potbelly wood burning stoves. Unfortunately, those were removed. In Chicago, there is no waiting areas if I remember correctly. You have to wait on the exposed platform. As you note, they do have those heating lamps at least. We need heating lamps in NYC. NYC can be a great city, but it doesn't take the concerns of the public seriously. Now they have even started removing seating in subway stations!!! You have to stand while you wait for the train and if you are outside on an elevated station, freeze your butt off because we don't have heating lamps!
Good video. However, a subway / elevated extension needs to be built to Staten Island to connect the SIR, with the rest of NYC. When the Verrazano Narrows Bridge was in the design phase, the BMT Forth Ave Subway was originally supposed to come to Staten Island. But Robert Moses said NO to this idea. In the 1920's, there were two provisions to bring the Subway to Staten Island. The first one was a "spur" from the 59th St 4th Ave station on the current N & R line to Staten Island. Then the Forth Ave Line's southern terminal was moved from 86th Street, to 95th Street 4th Ave. This would have connected with the Staten Island Railroad with the now defunct East Shore Line.
Interesting, but a couple of points missed. The most important is about the Third Ave El. The city govenerment caved to eager / greedy developers who were banking on the El's removal to build up the area. They knew that the property values would skyrocket once the El was gone. The city government, in its infinite wisdom, allowed this to happen before proper provisions were in place--that is, a Second Ave subway which, though started, was stopped once the city went bankrupt. This was especially foolish since, after the devolopers had their way, the population soared due to all the new high-rises being built (those ugly, cookie-cutter "white brick" apartment buildings). The el would have eventually been removed, of course, but greed accelerated the process.
Also, the removal of the Jamaical Ave El was not as unanimously lauded as you tend to believe. Many people (myself included) were fond of the line and lamented when it came down. Some older folks, especially in the uneasy 1970s, felt a little safer to be above ground than below. We lived on 95th Ave just a few blocks in from the Sutphin Blvd station. I have many happy memories of eating lunch with my family in the dark area below the tracks!
Great video. Please check the Metro Elevated Line that is under construction in Bogota, Colombia. And you will see that a beautiful and modern elevated metro line can be built in a crowded city.
The Rockaway elevated in its entirety is falling apart. There is so much exposed rebar.
3ave line could have been IRT specs with New trucks like PCC
2:15 Face reveal!
I cannot believe the Astoria line doesn't go to Laguardia. That feels like such a slam dunk of a project. Like, the bus is fine but damn does that airport need a rail connection good god
I agree, but.... First proposed 1943, long history, costs enormous because area is residential, and predicted smallish ridership - I think only a minority of air passengers come to/go from Manhattan.
What Id like to see are renderings of a modern El.
I’m not over them removing the Bronx portion of the IBX. It’s like they never fucking learn. Connecting the Bronx to Queens to Brooklyn is a nobrainer and would’ve economically improved all connected neighborhoods. Imagine getting on the train at Hunts Point and getting off at Chinatown in Queens much faster than it’d take to get to the one in Manhattan.
Interesting, I had no idea QueensLink was a thing, only had heard of the making it a trail, which a rail line would definitely would be more beneficial and functional than another park. Queens badly needs more north-south train options. Thanks to the people pushing for it
Im a Bronx native!! I love the video! but I would like to see train stations in upstate
Whenever I take the train at Myrtle-Wyckoff the M train turns there and it is so loud
The debate is not about El lines vs Subways. The debate now, is about are the new proposed El lines going to be Subway trains or Lightrail lines? So now it comes down to less noise, cost and efficiency. Which would be best to utilize for each individual proposed lines.
Elevated and surface level trains are much cheaper and efficient to build with what builders know today. They can be made almost noiseless and more aesthetically looking.
Elevated trains are more economical to build. Viaducts level the line and if there are floods, the patrons are dry; why Chicago went up. NYC has a high water table, so a no brainer.
Trains 🚆 should be elevated 10,000 feet above ground! 😳
Shame they got rid of so many of the elevated tracks in Manhattan. The views would’ve been spectacular today and there’d be Wi-Fi.
You mean cell and mobile data service.
Ironically, most underground stations already have wifi.
Yeah concrete els are very quite. We desperately need the N/W extension to LaGuardia. Maybe Broadway will finally get the respect it deserves. (We need R160s back on the N/W) Also if that happens, still keep the R on Forest Hills, and N/W. The N would be better for Airport users and the W provides filler without needing too much trains.
Literally all of this was owed to Andrew Carnegie and U.S. Steel. Steel is power, even in 2025.
The ultimate nimby nightmare
In the mid 1970's, Montreal had a clean and quiet subway that ran on rubber tires!
While at grade suburban trains in Japan are moving underground or elevated.
Elevated is superior to at grade
@@qjtvaddict And subway is superior to elevated.