I'm low on power with 250 watts for my 88,7 dB/w subs, but compensate by having 4 of them. 12" acoustic suspension subs, giving only benefits from multiples - much lower distortion, much higher efficiency, even improved low frequency extension if I so wish. The difference going from 1-2 is rather large near field, 2-3 definitely made a difference but it's getting low powered... Fourth didn't do much other than nearly SPL at high impedance aka further improved efficiency with halved power and less distortion. I then configured the DVC coils to run uncomfortably low impedance to get more power out. I'm stuck at either very low or very high impedance.. I think? Can I mix it up without changing frequency response, phase etc once they're all connected in parallell in the end? DVC and multiple subs on a mono amp gets complicated... Also got a 300W 15" sealed sub to add some heft in the very bottom, all corner loaded. Sounds very good goes quite loud too.. still, underpowered through and through. In a living room, absolutely need four subs to fill the room decently and make use of every watt. These are not modern drivers with ported enclosure nor is it a D-class amp.
@@randomguydoes2901 how big is your space that you are trying to fill? I have just finished up on a very nice 20hz extended bass reflex for a peerless stw-350f which is a impressive driver, I cant help but feel its not enough and the client has a very large space to fill. Multiples of these would be great for sure but I have been spoilt by supplying larger Pa driver's and the sensitivity + larger diameter drivers certainly help! Considered upgrading?
@@The-Sound-Guy I tried Tchaikovskys 1812 Overture just to see what hifi nerds were on about. It was fucking awesome. The monitors are no jokes either, somehow the 2x20w and 6.5" Acoustic Suspension driver in the monitors keep up with those canons. I suspect, low wattage but high burst power on the amps make the canons work exceptionally well. Though I know, 1-2 more subs to take on the mid bass will put the canons in the Holy Shit-category, at least near-field Need 4x the power to do that in the living room. I'm talking chest kick levels. Effortless and hard hitting is the goal sky being the limit really.
@@gathecap5674 Hi, from R6800 to R15000 for the full luxury treatment of best materials and finishing. 13 layer Birchwood plywood and polyurea finishing on the premium
There's Some Guys Who Do Like You Gareth But Can't Reach You So My Friend Leave Those Who Don't Want Knowledge Leave Them... i for 1 buildt my audio company on your known combined with people like Dave Rat.... and others so We Love you❤
Gareth My Man I've always wondered something you're paraflex is very efficient and I've been getting the same efficiency with a different box design but I've been wondering something.... if you can check neh People mostly talk about Subs going down to 30hz and 25hz @-6db and stuff but which is better for outdoor bass trying to fill a 60meter to 100 meters space with bass... a sub that can do 30hz or something like you're paraflex that picks up at about 55hz and is very efficient?? Because everything that can go as deep as 33 hz at 0db or -3db cannot Do 104/5 db @1w
@@ElvisBalale this is worth a whole new video & conversation. 30hz is very very deep regardless of the driver being used in general, the way around this is easier to use multiple enclosures. When we bring big horns together and place them side by side they work together and the mouth will increase the overall efficiency as a sum together, an example single cab might have -6dB at 35Hz but to is flat to 35hz but it is an early trade off that you must make early in the design process. Will cover this in a future video!
@@The-Sound-Guy Oh I See Where You're Getting At I've always fought with clients on coupling subs together by placing them on one spot to make them Omnidirectional and also it shapes the response of the bass... but overall I have a different type of encloser to Type c Paraflex cab and it works like a charm the response is almost exactly the same as paraflex but better in cone control but also it falls abit fast after 100hz... 6th order bandpass
Gareth Alby i agree however i do want to ask something just out of curiosity so lets say you have two single 18 inch subs even in the Paraflex Enclosures but one has double the displacement in relation to the other sub which would be louder on a intelligible level? like imagine we compare a Celto Ex1505 to or lower to a B&C ipal 18 would the ipal not be a decent amount louder? Also for anybody else reading this, this is not a realistic comparison the B&C ipal is insanely expensive gear like the celto or Eu1400 is FAR better value for money in South Africa.
Hi Erik - Displacement plays a very important part in increasing the overall maximum acoustic power, think of it as energy density as after all even a 6" can reach down low but the effect within the environment is less noticeable . We run into a trade off between say 8mm vs 16mm worth of voice coil travel, as we go further out we experience a loss on BL and to fix this requires steps like a stronger motor, tighter tolerance and modulation rings to try reduce inductance but all of this effects mass and linearity. I-pal and equivalent speakers are in a special class to work exceptionally well with class D gear and are more specialized in nature. I don't like comparing drivers in this way as some products focus on precision over loudness and the expectation becomes false if we assume say a 2000 watt R30 000 driver should be louder than either Eu or EX will 100% lead to disappointment in the expectation of loudness. Making loud bass at very low frequency is very tricky for PA drivers and often the underdog which is optimized for low frequency reproduction will win that race vs a high power precision subwoofer
@@The-Sound-Guy Yes i agree, i wanted to use a extreme example to show others that the juice is not always worth the Squeeze same as doing a double 18 instead of a single. Your video has mad me think bout the power aspect though seeing as i only have the B2400 giving 2x800watts@8ohm and me and you saw it really does not give enough oomph to a 18/21 inch sub alby the 18DS115 is a top end sub it still made me think about it so now im thinking a amp upgrade might be needed alongside a sub upgrade. 🫡
@@EBMproductions1 Side by side comparison the Type C compact is louder with EU1400 from Nexus, the danger you are not aware of is the comparison behind precision application driver built for compact touring and the other not falling into that class by comparing products here. Better so would be to separate the difference between the EX1505 vs EU1400 and deciding is the price gap worth the jump.
Thanks for the info, keep up the great work
My understanding is a doubling in output adds 3dBs.
@@beornthebear.8220 thats 100% correct, however often people assume it is twice as loud which requires a 10dB increase.
Having two drivers producing the same volume also means that both drivers need to move less than one which should give you better controled bass.
Teach me
make a video about Double 18 vs single 21
Did you find the video of double 18s Vs single any good?
You know who i call when it comes to this..
Katlego 😊
@@katlegomogwera6834 Does it make sense?
I'm low on power with 250 watts for my 88,7 dB/w subs, but compensate by having 4 of them. 12" acoustic suspension subs, giving only benefits from multiples - much lower distortion, much higher efficiency, even improved low frequency extension if I so wish. The difference going from 1-2 is rather large near field, 2-3 definitely made a difference but it's getting low powered... Fourth didn't do much other than nearly SPL at high impedance aka further improved efficiency with halved power and less distortion. I then configured the DVC coils to run uncomfortably low impedance to get more power out. I'm stuck at either very low or very high impedance.. I think? Can I mix it up without changing frequency response, phase etc once they're all connected in parallell in the end? DVC and multiple subs on a mono amp gets complicated...
Also got a 300W 15" sealed sub to add some heft in the very bottom, all corner loaded. Sounds very good goes quite loud too.. still, underpowered through and through. In a living room, absolutely need four subs to fill the room decently and make use of every watt. These are not modern drivers with ported enclosure nor is it a D-class amp.
@@randomguydoes2901 how big is your space that you are trying to fill?
I have just finished up on a very nice 20hz extended bass reflex for a peerless stw-350f which is a impressive driver, I cant help but feel its not enough and the client has a very large space to fill. Multiples of these would be great for sure but I have been spoilt by supplying larger Pa driver's and the sensitivity + larger diameter drivers certainly help!
Considered upgrading?
@@The-Sound-Guy I tried Tchaikovskys 1812 Overture just to see what hifi nerds were on about. It was fucking awesome. The monitors are no jokes either, somehow the 2x20w and 6.5" Acoustic Suspension driver in the monitors keep up with those canons. I suspect, low wattage but high burst power on the amps make the canons work exceptionally well.
Though I know, 1-2 more subs to take on the mid bass will put the canons in the Holy Shit-category, at least near-field Need 4x the power to do that in the living room.
I'm talking chest kick levels. Effortless and hard hitting is the goal sky being the limit really.
@@randomguydoes2901 can you attach a link to the product good sir?
@@The-Sound-Guy Sir I sent you a mail with it, but please don't make a video, you'll ruin the part where the value is off the charts
Did you say a type c single is 6000 rand ?
@@gathecap5674 Hi, from R6800 to R15000 for the full luxury treatment of best materials and finishing. 13 layer Birchwood plywood and polyurea finishing on the premium
There's Some Guys Who Do Like You Gareth But Can't Reach You So My Friend Leave Those Who Don't Want Knowledge Leave Them... i for 1 buildt my audio company on your known combined with people like Dave Rat.... and others so We Love you❤
Thank you for the Kind words Elvis, much respect to you!
Gareth My Man I've always wondered something you're paraflex is very efficient and I've been getting the same efficiency with a different box design but I've been wondering something.... if you can check neh People mostly talk about Subs going down to 30hz and 25hz @-6db and stuff but which is better for outdoor bass trying to fill a 60meter to 100 meters space with bass... a sub that can do 30hz or something like you're paraflex that picks up at about 55hz and is very efficient?? Because everything that can go as deep as 33 hz at 0db or -3db cannot Do 104/5 db @1w
@@ElvisBalale this is worth a whole new video & conversation. 30hz is very very deep regardless of the driver being used in general, the way around this is easier to use multiple enclosures.
When we bring big horns together and place them side by side they work together and the mouth will increase the overall efficiency as a sum together, an example single cab might have -6dB at 35Hz but to is flat to 35hz but it is an early trade off that you must make early in the design process.
Will cover this in a future video!
@@The-Sound-Guy Oh I See Where You're Getting At I've always fought with clients on coupling subs together by placing them on one spot to make them Omnidirectional and also it shapes the response of the bass... but overall I have a different type of encloser to Type c Paraflex cab and it works like a charm the response is almost exactly the same as paraflex but better in cone control but also it falls abit fast after 100hz... 6th order bandpass
Gareth Alby i agree however i do want to ask something just out of curiosity so lets say you have two single 18 inch subs even in the Paraflex Enclosures but one has double the displacement in relation to the other sub which would be louder on a intelligible level? like imagine we compare a Celto Ex1505 to or lower to a B&C ipal 18 would the ipal not be a decent amount louder? Also for anybody else reading this, this is not a realistic comparison the B&C ipal is insanely expensive gear like the celto or Eu1400 is FAR better value for money in South Africa.
Hi Erik - Displacement plays a very important part in increasing the overall maximum acoustic power, think of it as energy density as after all even a 6" can reach down low but the effect within the environment is less noticeable . We run into a trade off between say 8mm vs 16mm worth of voice coil travel, as we go further out we experience a loss on BL and to fix this requires steps like a stronger motor, tighter tolerance and modulation rings to try reduce inductance but all of this effects mass and linearity. I-pal and equivalent speakers are in a special class to work exceptionally well with class D gear and are more specialized in nature. I don't like comparing drivers in this way as some products focus on precision over loudness and the expectation becomes false if we assume say a 2000 watt R30 000 driver should be louder than either Eu or EX will 100% lead to disappointment in the expectation of loudness. Making loud bass at very low frequency is very tricky for PA drivers and often the underdog which is optimized for low frequency reproduction will win that race vs a high power precision subwoofer
@@The-Sound-Guy I've always wondered about that impact
@@The-Sound-Guy Yes i agree, i wanted to use a extreme example to show others that the juice is not always worth the Squeeze same as doing a double 18 instead of a single. Your video has mad me think bout the power aspect though seeing as i only have the B2400 giving 2x800watts@8ohm and me and you saw it really does not give enough oomph to a 18/21 inch sub alby the 18DS115 is a top end sub it still made me think about it so now im thinking a amp upgrade might be needed alongside a sub upgrade. 🫡
@@ElvisBalale wharfedale impact series?
@@EBMproductions1 Side by side comparison the Type C compact is louder with EU1400 from Nexus, the danger you are not aware of is the comparison behind precision application driver built for compact touring and the other not falling into that class by comparing products here. Better so would be to separate the difference between the EX1505 vs EU1400 and deciding is the price gap worth the jump.