that was more of an accident, the writers back then didn’t know about the Jedi laws because it was before the prequels came out, and by that time they already had Luke married.
Given the Lore before and after the Prequels, I like to think Jolee Bindo's introduction and philosophy helped to round out an explanation for Luke's attachments. Specifically, "Controlling your Passions while being in Love..." I believe Luke was one of the few Jedi who was able to form nonpossessive attachments in Legends Continuity.
@DSMadara What he said was mostly true. Much of the Star Wars Lore we love did evolve overtime, most of it under Lucas's personal supervision and/or input. Most of the Solid Lore was established during The Prequels. Until then, there was more guesswork. However, EU writers were better organized by far.
That's because Luke did not want to make the same mistake the Jedi Order did so he changed some of the rules and made it so Jedi could have families and get married.
Attachment doesnt necessarily lead to the dark side Plo Koon had a wife and kids and when they died his control of his emotions and his Jedi training helped him overcome it
Yes, we all remember the Dark Side user, fuckin' Qui-Gon Jinn who was deeply attached to Anakin. Care for him like his own child. But yeah, no, attachment=darkside
Also, who’s to say he doesn’t train his force powers. Whether with someone,alone or with Din. He’s going to be around a long time with his race. I see him becoming ultimate. Force wielding trained by one of the greatest mandalorians. He can clearly choke, lift a mudhorn and his race is KNOWN for being based in the force more than anyone. That is why I think Luke had him choose. The resentment could have been huge if he felt he was forced to weild his midichlorians. I adore the show but they need to get back on it. Better
I can actually see what you’re saying. Then I think Disney should make a Luke series where he starts his new Jedi order and starts training a new force-sensitive youngling.
He gave grogu a choice. None of the other Jedi had a choice but to join the order. Luke giving grogu a choice is what makes Luke drastically different than the old Jedi.
I mean they had the choice to leave but it being a cult means leaving is easier said then done, whilst the new Jedi order is inheriting from the old one Luke did not repeat their mistakes, thats why Grogu got to have a choice also for all we know they might return the internal attachements to be a thing because all we saw was Kylo and Grogu so far from the new Jedi order so there is still some time for him to allow it
It’s the same choice any jedi has been faced with tho stay a jedi or see the ones you love it is different from what the jedi used to do and is better but is still not what a true jedi should do
@@nihilus1790how ironic hearing that from you Darth Nihilus, very unsurprising hearing that from the mouth of you.......Only a Sith deals in Absolutes!
Yes, but Luke is an still adult and Grogu isn’t. Similarly to how a dog becomes a full adult before a human (if born at the same time), even if a human would outlive a dog plenty of times over.
Compassion and attachment is not the same. You can feel compassion towards a stranger, but attachments are formed with certain people you care about deeply.
@@shyper17 caring deeply is also missing the mark of what is being meant by attachment. When attachment is talked about in Star Wars they are talking about possession essentially. That “this is mine, it/they/she/he belongs to me” mindset. When Jedi talk about compassion without attachment, they aren’t saying to not form relationships. We have seen Jedi form all kinds of relationships all of the time. What is being said is that it’s important to never become possessive over these things and to be able to let things go when the time comes. Nothing lasts forever, the party has to end sometime, and when that time comes you need to let go and not keep trying to hold onto it. Because trying to hold onto something past it’s time is taking possession, it’s attachment, and THAT is the path to the dark side because that is selfishness
@@cultmecca Exactly what I thought, but my vocabulary goes from 10 to 0 in 3am. Don't ask questions about that. Point is, I didn't really word it all the way I wanted to.
Attachment is what gets in the way of a lot of compassion. But this has to do with how people think about attachment. Many people don't start something because they are attached to the outcome. Fear that they will fail, that the result won't match their intention, that the outcome will change them in some way, etc. Detachment does not mean you don't take a position. It is letting go of the things that might prevent you from doing what is just or might need doing. You are still working toward a goal but you put aside the doubt that comes with attachment. This is one of the things people get core wrong about how Buddhism approaches this kind of idea also. So for instance when you let go of attachment to the security that comes from family and what you know it lets you go to the Jedi Temple to study. It does not mean you don't care any more about family or traditions you grew up with. You might make meals from where you grew up, observe holidays, even take on an article of clothing or some other token. You don't let attachment to these things decide your actions though.
They would have also gaslit his parents/himself that it was in his best interest to train as a jedi amd while maybe they may have had a point and his best interest at heart that's still not entirely right to not allow an individual the chance to let the force guide their own path.
He also says a very lovely thing when he says that a short time for Grogu is a lifetime for someone else. He's pointing out that Din Djarin will die. Allowing to Grogu to "give in" to his attachment here, is probably okay in Luke's mind because once Din is dead, he won't have that attachment and will be able to train then. (Luke, of course, assumes his school will be successful.) I thought Luke was showing a lot of compassion for Grogu. He grew up without his father (though he had his Uncle and Aunt). Grogu doesn't HAVE to grow up without his. And he realizes that's important. It's against Jedi rules so he can't train him further, but he understands.
@devlenruby6681 oohhhhh wow thank you so much. I was watching s3 of Mando so confused. I kept rewinding it to see where lune gave him back at. could never find jt. I used to like Boba fet but Mando is just interesting because he follows the creed
I definitely think that they could further develop this in future shows/seasons too. Luke didn’t give him the choice because of the problem of attachment, he gave a choice because it was both the right thing to do and what would actually further develop Grogu’s abilities, as Luke said in the episode, Grogu knew most of the training already, it just needed to be reawakened, by having the choice, he effectively discovered what way Grogu could/would go that would inevitably end up with him developing faster. I would almost bet Luke will return at some point and train Grogu more just like he was taught by Obi-wan, and Yoda which did something similar. Yoda actually did the same thing, just a lot more subtly in Empire.
I believe that it was the ban on attachment that caused Anakin to turn. He could not seek help from others about padmes death because it had to be a secret
Yes and he also couldn’t have any bonds. He couldn’t take his mother to the temple of the jedi. Luke’s decision is very good, because he let’s Grogu decide between losing those relationships or becoming a jedi. He doesn’t just take away his bond with Mando.
No, that caused him to be upset, frustrated and rebellious. Palpatine recognizing that and using it to his advantage, whispering in Anakin’s ear, is what caused him to turn. Without palpatine falsely indicating that he knew how to prevent Padme from dying, Anakin would have no reason to not turn Palpatine in when he had the chance, which he was about to do.
@@whengrapespop5728Some jedi still turn from time to time, so it would still be a possibility. Especially with Anakin being a rather unique case among them. Obi-Wan not being the ideal master for Anakin didn't help either.
When you think about it, this is the first time in the show someone has allowed Grogu to make his own decision. Everyone has always decided themselves what was best for him. I know that makes sense given that he’s still a baby, but scenes like this show he is being allowed to grow.
This is actually a really good point I had serious issues with this scene, it made it seem like Luke was making him choose between attachment and the order (going against everything he should stand for), but yeah, he's actually just giving him the choice to follow the path he wants, to follow his heart as Luke did You have saved this scene for me, thank you
I love this take. After rewatching the series and considering the attachment thing, all the subtext that points to anakins turn starts being the center of the story of the prequels. Luke would be aware of his fathers turn and wouldn’t want to be as cold as the Jedi by turning someone away for having attachments. Like you said, he gave Grogu a choice, showing that Luke is trying to change how the Jedi act, as well as letting Grogu find his own path.
If anything this just makes him do the contrary the Jedi order stated. He's ALLOWING attachments between Grogu and Mando, giving him all his free will.
I didn’t like this scene cuz in legends Luke fell in love with Mara Jade. So he learned which the past Jedis didn’t (except for the way back old republic era) that attachments are okay. In reality the attachment to his father is what saved his father. Attachment isn’t wrong it’s only bad if it’s clouds your judgement and makes you reckless. There has to be a balance, like everything else in life
The Jedi feared all attachment. Their belief is that if one is attached to something it is the catalyst that will push you into the dark side. Luke had to free himself from this ideology. The attachment that he had to his friends allow him to overcome the persuasion of the dark side. It made him more powerful than what the emperor had expected. This is a valuable lesson that he passed on to grogu. As we saw in Luke's later life he did not understand that every person has to make their own choice. You can see this and how differently the outcomes were for his own nephew and a descendant of palpatine.
I feel attachment is a two way street, it can lead to the dark side as we with Anakin into Vader, but attachment can pull you back as we see with Vader back to Anakin. It’s about how you teach attachments and manage them that can lead to a fall or redemption or strength
Not true. In Legends, Luke falls in love, marries his old imperial assassin tasked with killing him and fathers a child with her. All without falling to the dark side.
@@DanB-qy9os Legends is literally based on work by Lucas prior to Disney's trash. It doesn't get much more canon than that. More canon than Disney's dumpster fires.
@@TheJMBon The sequels are bad, yes, but the shows and movies that came after the sequels are not bad. (In my opinion). I am talking about canon star wars, if you prefer legends then fine (its your opinion), but if we are looking at canon star wars then Luke was fine to let Grogu past because of the fact above.
From what I understand now, is that many within the Jedi believe that love is in itself an attachment. Though this feels like it's more based on Yoda's experience with life that caused love to become collated to forming an attachment. That being said, Anakin's love for Padme is an attachment, and a pretty unhealthy one at that. The guy was obsessive and he wasn't pretty when he allowed his emotions to control how he thinks
It’s fear that’s the true enemy. We saw it in Anakin when he was frightened to lose Padme. If he learned to confront that fear, and wasn’t influenced by Palpatine, things could have changed differently.
Attachment itself doesn't lead to the dark side, but the ability to let go and properly deal with feelings is how to prevent going to the dark side. Not properly dealing with emotions is what leads to the dark side. Plo Koon proves this point if anyone every really paid attention to his story and that's something Luke did in now Legends teaching how to deal with emotions properly
Totally agree. Had Luke forced the way of the Jedi on Grogu it could have caused Grogu to resent him and he wouldn't be fully committed to being a Jedi. Which could have resulted in Grogu becoming a very dangerous individual. "A Jedi must have the deepest commitment" -Yoda.
Did I miss an episode? I don't remember a scene where Luke gives Grogu any choices...I just remember Grogu showing up in Mando's cockpit bubble at the beginning of season 3 of the Mandolorian
Maybe but grogu would have been pretty bad ass by that point, he might have held his own. A more trained Grogu v Kylo would be a great hypothetical fight.
@@mickadams1905s if now we don’t know when Grogus species exits the “Baby” stage. For example I believe Hutts who also live for hundreds of years are practically useless until they are 50. Grogu is 50 and he’s still stealing candy from other kids and getting into trouble like one. For all we know he could not fully mature until he’s around ~100-150 as Yaddle was young as a padawan and was still young 200 years later.
@@adamallen8787 Have you watched the show and seen how powerful this "baby" already is? You don't think another 20 years under Luke would have some impact? Not saying he would win, he just wouldn't be a push over.
Plus, I feel if grogu was forced that resentment would stay and fester and his attachment wouldn’t have been addressed leading him down the path to the dark side
People also have to realize that Luke chose to become a Jedi rather than being brainwashed into it and given arbitrary rules on how to use his own power. So he allowed Grogu to because he knows how valuable that choice was to himself.
I don't get why people think he's making the same mistake, old Jedi basically kidnapped children from their families at a young age and Luke gave Grogu a choice
I think that it's more accurate to say that attachments can rather than do lead to the dark side because giving into attachments doesn't necessarily nor automatically do so. Afterall, Luke had his own attachments to his friends and yet he avoided giving into the dark side in Return of the Jedi
Well said, I for one LOVED that Luke gave him a choice. The former Jedi had no choice at all, if you showed aptitude for the force they scooped you up. I cannot wait to see how Grogu grows up!!
Bad writing imo. Legends look (which otherwise looked to share some similarities with his counterpart in The Mandalorian) allowed attachment withing the order. Even he himself was married and had a son.
While attachment can lead to the darkside(seen with anakin and padme) its important to realize that anakin was forced to hide his relationship from everyone because it was basically illegal for jedi. while in the newer order they were allowed and probably taught how to control any type of problems that it would lead to. So in a way the new order faced this upfront while in a classic republic jedi era way, they were just so scared of the dark side that they tried to shut it out completely
Plus in the Actual Canon Luke did allow attachments and while it did come with some Falling there were hundreds more who were even stronger than the Old Republic Jedi because of it. Classic case of Removal vs. Control of Emotions
I can actually believe that, great analysis! What I first thought of it was that Luke was testing Grogu in a way. Luke wanted him to choose his love for the Mandalorian as he did for his father years ago. Once Grogu did, Luke happily took him back to Mando, sending him with R2 as to not arrouse suspicion or unwanted attention (as he's the most famous and probably hunted Jedi there is). But he took another ship at a safe distance to make sure his former student got home safely. (That is if Disney is going to retcon the sequels and have Mando and the other shows be in the main universe with the sequels being a separate one altogether. If they don't, that will be a real disappointment for sure).
It’s more of the Jedi forbidding attachment and punishing it that made people fall, because they felt like they were going to take the person/thing they are attached to away. Which leads to the dark side, not attachments themselves.
In the case of Anakin, the counsel also showed zero regards to his instinct and premonitions. They didn't council him,but rather repeated the same thing of "Don't get attached". It wouldn't kill them to hear him out snf try to understand
Attachment doesn’t lead to the dark side, failing to teach about dealing with the loss of attachment leads to the dark side. The Jedi were so afraid of people turning to the dark side simply because of the loss of someone dear to them. No one would turn evil just because their friend or loved one dies. And they treat hatred and anger as if they aren’t natural emotions. They don’t teach ways to deal with negative emotions, just to ignore them.
This is what Lone Wolf did and said with his son Gyegoro. Gyegoro had to choose between an attractive toy or a Samurai sword. If the son chose the toy Lone Wolf would have killed his son and joined him with his mother in death. He chose the sword and thus Lone Wolf taught him to fight. This was in an early 80's martial arts movie, "The Shogun's Assassin".
I think he’s on the right track, and that in this context the choice was his best play, but forbidding attachment in general will inevitably lead back to the old order’s mistakes, if not in luke’s lifetime, in the future of his order.
The old Jedi Order would have tried to buy the child from them or persuade the parents to give the child to them. And in rare and extreme circumstances, steal the children. To be fair, they didn't do that nearly as often during the Clone Wars as they did thousands of years ago, but it still happened.
Giving grogu a choice was something anakin never had, he had all the power he could want yet no control in his life as a jedi and a father so Palpatine lies about gaining control sounded pretty good compared to the jedi's control over him. However luke is no different as maybe if Kylo saw his family more he would not try to kill them.
I like this. You could argue if mace and the other masters let anakin have a choice, he wouldn’t have felt like he had no choice, in doing what he did.
I would say that attachment in Star Wars is something that can pull you to the light side or to the dark. True love is sacrifice, you either chose to sacrifice yourself for something or try to forcefully take that something away from you.
Yeah but there’s a middle ground. Luke coulda trained Grogu and still allow Mandalorian dad visits or summer vacations or Christmas. Luke was still a dick for making Grogu choose.
The legends luke jedi ordwr is way better and allows attachment. Hell Luke was married and had sons. Because instead of banishinh attachment and not teaching people to let go or just toss them aside like previous jedi order. Luke legends jedi order allowed you have attachment and have close relationship like boyfriend/girlfriend. But you had to tell one of jedi masters of the council or Luke and they would have special lessons and trials that you as a jedi and your partner would do together with the jedi master. In order to prepare for the dark side and learn about how you can resist it.
Attachment doesn't lead to the dark side only obsessive attachment does. Obi wan was friends with many Jedi and best friends with Anakin. But his attachment wasn't obsessive. Anakin and grogu's attachments were. I think the Jedi should have allowed attachment. But teach them to let go when necessary. It would have prevented more people from turning to the dark side. because it would have taught them greater self control.
Even Din didn't give him the choice. It was all about "returning him to his kind" no matter how much it personally hurt Grogu or himself. Luke is the only one that allowed Grogu to decide.
nobody learns from past mistakes damn it. what’s the point of canceling The expanded universe just to rip it off and make it shittier and piss off the fan base either purposely or non-purposely. Seriously the new Canon has the exact same fucking history as the expanding universe. not only that they keep bringing stuff from the expanding universe into the new Canon which means that there’s absolutely no point on canceling or not adapting them into movies and shows
I agree withe you and i saw that as a step to change the Jedi ways…but we saw what happened in the last movies and it’s very sad because forbidding attachment was a easy path to avoid the dark side but i’m sure that was not the only one. What we saw with Grogu, Ahsoka is another way to use the force, neither Jedi, nor Sith because life is never black or white. I like that evolution
Well Luke is not a hypocrite for sure. He did pick his friends over Yoda's teaching back in his days. It would be unfair if he force the baby to do what he wants.
Anakin's attachment to his family is the very reason he was able to be redeemed in the first place. As such, i feel attachments should be allowed and understood to allow for greater compassion between jedi.
Two things can be true at once. Yes giving choice is better than the old order, however he still is saying he forbids attachment, not that he's simply giving a choice. And secondly, if someone feels attachments and you think attachment leads to the darkside, all kicking them out of the order would do is lead them to the dark side, as they'll have no training to keep them from going down that path.
I agree. I'll also add that Anakin should've been allowed to leave the Order and been given more support for himself and his mother by the people of Naboo.
To be honest I don’t think it’s about attachment at all. Luke is not against attachment or Jedi having it but we know that defying anyone who especially a child of their agency is not only wrong but evil and it cost the Jedi before a lot due to these errors in judgement. The question and proposition was more about who grogu wanted to become and a lot less about forcing a choice between the force or not the force.
I am definitely glad that he at least gave Grogu a choice instead of saying that attachment was just immediately wrong. But I still prefer the way legends Luke saw that people could have it both ways if they really wanted to. Because he recognized that closing yourself off from all attachment isn’t healthy either. He even went on to marry, have children, and encourage his students to do the same. Because it wasn’t the attachment that led to the dark side on its own. It was a lack of healthy coping mechanisms. When Anakin asked Yoda what he should do about his fears, Yoda basically said to just let go of it. But it’s never that simple and I think Luke understood that in legends.
While I do think Luke made the right choice in letting Grogu decide whether or not he wanted to be a Jedi, I do not think it should’ve been entirely based on his attachment to Din, especially since the bond they have is father and son. Luke was able to save Vader in the end because of their attachment to each other.
belief in the force guidance is what yoda and other members of the council had lost, qui-gonn told them Anakin was the chosen one yet they let their own will dictate how they guided him which is what led him to the dark side in the end. Luke is allowing grogu to see his own destiny and let the force work in its own way which is why luke was right to let him go back to the Mandalorian (not saying Kathleen Kennedy is tho )
Everything you said is true, but you are still wrong. It is not attachement that turn people to the dark side, it's the inability to let go. And that is the only thing that grogu needed to be tough, the ability to let go for when untimetly Mando die.
People misunderstand what attachment means in the context of Star Wars and the Jedi. When Jedi talk about having no attachments they aren’t saying that you can’t form relationships with other people (we form all kinds of different relationships all of the time), they aren’t saying that you can’t love other people. What they are talking about is taking possession of something/someone and not being able to let something/someone go. Nothing lasts forever. A Jedi knows that the party has to end sometime. When the time comes for the party to end, a Jedi doesn’t keep trying to extend the party past it’s time, they let it end. Trying to hang onto something when it is time to let it go is taking possession of it, it’s forming an attachment to it, and it is ultimately selfish. It’s this selfishness that is the path to the dark side. Anakin’s love for Padme was never the issue. The issue was that he couldn’t let her go. There is no situation where Anakin would have let Padme go. Take an example where Padme wanted to break up with Anakin, I seriously doubt he would have accepted that. No attachments also means letting other people make their own decisions even if what they decide isn’t what you would like them to do because you do not possess them. They aren’t yours.
I completely agree, I never understood why fans were upset with Grogu going back to Mando. Luke did a very Luke thing to do and he allowed Grogu to choose his path over forcing a path onto him. Any we never know, maybe Grogu will go back to train with Luke in order to protect Mando.
I don't know how I feel about this scene personally. I wanted to criticize Luke for doing this. But at the same time I could respect and see why he would do something like this. So I'm about as split down the middle about this scene as the fan base is.
Luke in legends allowed love and compassion in his new order and even married Mara Jade and when she died he avenged her, luke in legends was far better and only a sith deals in absolute
![CAMPปลิ้น | EP.82[1/2] แก๊ง 3 สาวเพื่อนซี้บุก CAMPปลิ้นครั้งนี้ห้ามเสียอาการ](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/_6WUjXHe1TM/mqdefault.jpg)
In legends. Luke allowed attachment in his Jedi order. Hell luke was even married and had a son
THANK YOU!!! FINALLY SOMEONE MENTIONS THAT HES MARRIED!
that was more of an accident, the writers back then didn’t know about the Jedi laws because it was before the prequels came out, and by that time they already had Luke married.
Given the Lore before and after the Prequels, I like to think Jolee Bindo's introduction and philosophy helped to round out an explanation for Luke's attachments. Specifically, "Controlling your Passions while being in Love..." I believe Luke was one of the few Jedi who was able to form nonpossessive attachments in Legends Continuity.
@DSMadara What he said was mostly true. Much of the Star Wars Lore we love did evolve overtime, most of it under Lucas's personal supervision and/or input. Most of the Solid Lore was established during The Prequels. Until then, there was more guesswork. However, EU writers were better organized by far.
That's because Luke did not want to make the same mistake the Jedi Order did so he changed some of the rules and made it so Jedi could have families and get married.
Attachment doesnt necessarily lead to the dark side Plo Koon had a wife and kids and when they died his control of his emotions and his Jedi training helped him overcome it
He made the right choice, also remember grogu will far out live mando and can pick up later
You know what… can’t say I love the idea but you’re absolutely right.
Yes, we all remember the Dark Side user, fuckin' Qui-Gon Jinn who was deeply attached to Anakin. Care for him like his own child. But yeah, no, attachment=darkside
give him the darksaber
Also, who’s to say he doesn’t train his force powers. Whether with someone,alone or with Din. He’s going to be around a long time with his race. I see him becoming ultimate. Force wielding trained by one of the greatest mandalorians. He can clearly choke, lift a mudhorn and his race is KNOWN for being based in the force more than anyone. That is why I think Luke had him choose. The resentment could have been huge if he felt he was forced to weild his midichlorians. I adore the show but they need to get back on it. Better
Well friend, that's the beauty of America, you're allowed to be wrong.
Attachment doesn't lead to the dark side, the Taboo of it does.
I can actually see what you’re saying. Then I think Disney should make a Luke series where he starts his new Jedi order and starts training a new force-sensitive youngling.
He gave grogu a choice. None of the other Jedi had a choice but to join the order. Luke giving grogu a choice is what makes Luke drastically different than the old Jedi.
I mean they had the choice to leave but it being a cult means leaving is easier said then done, whilst the new Jedi order is inheriting from the old one Luke did not repeat their mistakes, thats why Grogu got to have a choice also for all we know they might return the internal attachements to be a thing because all we saw was Kylo and Grogu so far from the new Jedi order so there is still some time for him to allow it
Exatcly
Very valid point
It’s the same choice any jedi has been faced with tho stay a jedi or see the ones you love it is different from what the jedi used to do and is better but is still not what a true jedi should do
@@nihilus1790how ironic hearing that from you Darth Nihilus, very unsurprising hearing that from the mouth of you.......Only a Sith deals in Absolutes!
When you realize that grogu is 20 years older than Luke💀
Yes, but Luke is an still adult and Grogu isn’t. Similarly to how a dog becomes a full adult before a human (if born at the same time), even if a human would outlive a dog plenty of times over.
He was alive during order 66 so duh🤣
One could argue that the thing that stops Luke from falling to the dark side is compassion toward his father
Compassion and attachment is not the same. You can feel compassion towards a stranger, but attachments are formed with certain people you care about deeply.
@@shyper17 caring deeply is also missing the mark of what is being meant by attachment. When attachment is talked about in Star Wars they are talking about possession essentially. That “this is mine, it/they/she/he belongs to me” mindset.
When Jedi talk about compassion without attachment, they aren’t saying to not form relationships. We have seen Jedi form all kinds of relationships all of the time. What is being said is that it’s important to never become possessive over these things and to be able to let things go when the time comes. Nothing lasts forever, the party has to end sometime, and when that time comes you need to let go and not keep trying to hold onto it. Because trying to hold onto something past it’s time is taking possession, it’s attachment, and THAT is the path to the dark side because that is selfishness
@@cultmecca Exactly what I thought, but my vocabulary goes from 10 to 0 in 3am. Don't ask questions about that. Point is, I didn't really word it all the way I wanted to.
Attachment is what gets in the way of a lot of compassion. But this has to do with how people think about attachment.
Many people don't start something because they are attached to the outcome. Fear that they will fail, that the result won't match their intention, that the outcome will change them in some way, etc.
Detachment does not mean you don't take a position. It is letting go of the things that might prevent you from doing what is just or might need doing.
You are still working toward a goal but you put aside the doubt that comes with attachment.
This is one of the things people get core wrong about how Buddhism approaches this kind of idea also.
So for instance when you let go of attachment to the security that comes from family and what you know it lets you go to the Jedi Temple to study. It does not mean you don't care any more about family or traditions you grew up with. You might make meals from where you grew up, observe holidays, even take on an article of clothing or some other token. You don't let attachment to these things decide your actions though.
I would call it empathy rather than compassion.
The old Jedi order would of taken Grogu without giving him any choice at all.
They would have also gaslit his parents/himself that it was in his best interest to train as a jedi amd while maybe they may have had a point and his best interest at heart that's still not entirely right to not allow an individual the chance to let the force guide their own path.
Grogu was at The Temple when Vader and The 501st Legion attacked it.
@@connerlackey3952 This. In fact, considering the species, I imagine it was Yoda, himself, who brought Grogu in.
@@MrCrunchytime I could see Yoda or Yaddle bringing Grogu in.
He also says a very lovely thing when he says that a short time for Grogu is a lifetime for someone else. He's pointing out that Din Djarin will die. Allowing to Grogu to "give in" to his attachment here, is probably okay in Luke's mind because once Din is dead, he won't have that attachment and will be able to train then. (Luke, of course, assumes his school will be successful.)
I thought Luke was showing a lot of compassion for Grogu. He grew up without his father (though he had his Uncle and Aunt). Grogu doesn't HAVE to grow up without his. And he realizes that's important. It's against Jedi rules so he can't train him further, but he understands.
lukes school is successful though, provided you don't count disney's retarded story writing
i’m glad they had him go w mando bc it was more realistic based on his attachment
Yes but also, what would the show [Mandalorian] even be without Baby Gogurt?
@@DanNowlan not just the Mandalorian at this point heck even the Book of Boba Fett would be something else entirely
@@randomdude7386 yeah you can't watch just Mando because this scen is from bobba fett
@DanNowlan he should have had luke and the baby and Mando sees them time to time until Luke trains him better
@devlenruby6681 oohhhhh wow thank you so much. I was watching s3 of Mando so confused. I kept rewinding it to see where lune gave him back at. could never find jt. I used to like Boba fet but Mando is just interesting because he follows the creed
I definitely think that they could further develop this in future shows/seasons too. Luke didn’t give him the choice because of the problem of attachment, he gave a choice because it was both the right thing to do and what would actually further develop Grogu’s abilities, as Luke said in the episode, Grogu knew most of the training already, it just needed to be reawakened, by having the choice, he effectively discovered what way Grogu could/would go that would inevitably end up with him developing faster. I would almost bet Luke will return at some point and train Grogu more just like he was taught by Obi-wan, and Yoda which did something similar. Yoda actually did the same thing, just a lot more subtly in Empire.
I believe that it was the ban on attachment that caused Anakin to turn. He could not seek help from others about padmes death because it had to be a secret
Yes and he also couldn’t have any bonds. He couldn’t take his mother to the temple of the jedi. Luke’s decision is very good, because he let’s Grogu decide between losing those relationships or becoming a jedi. He doesn’t just take away his bond with Mando.
No, that caused him to be upset, frustrated and rebellious. Palpatine recognizing that and using it to his advantage, whispering in Anakin’s ear, is what caused him to turn. Without palpatine falsely indicating that he knew how to prevent Padme from dying, Anakin would have no reason to not turn Palpatine in when he had the chance, which he was about to do.
@@whengrapespop5728Some jedi still turn from time to time, so it would still be a possibility. Especially with Anakin being a rather unique case among them.
Obi-Wan not being the ideal master for Anakin didn't help either.
When you think about it, this is the first time in the show someone has allowed Grogu to make his own decision. Everyone has always decided themselves what was best for him. I know that makes sense given that he’s still a baby, but scenes like this show he is being allowed to grow.
This is actually a really good point
I had serious issues with this scene, it made it seem like Luke was making him choose between attachment and the order (going against everything he should stand for), but yeah, he's actually just giving him the choice to follow the path he wants, to follow his heart as Luke did
You have saved this scene for me, thank you
I love this take. After rewatching the series and considering the attachment thing, all the subtext that points to anakins turn starts being the center of the story of the prequels. Luke would be aware of his fathers turn and wouldn’t want to be as cold as the Jedi by turning someone away for having attachments. Like you said, he gave Grogu a choice, showing that Luke is trying to change how the Jedi act, as well as letting Grogu find his own path.
If anything this just makes him do the contrary the Jedi order stated.
He's ALLOWING attachments between Grogu and Mando, giving him all his free will.
And yet giving Grogu a choice.
Amen to that dude.
The Jedi let anakin Skywalker be attached to padme and palpatine howd that work out for everyone?
I didn’t like this scene cuz in legends Luke fell in love with Mara Jade. So he learned which the past Jedis didn’t (except for the way back old republic era) that attachments are okay.
In reality the attachment to his father is what saved his father. Attachment isn’t wrong it’s only bad if it’s clouds your judgement and makes you reckless. There has to be a balance, like everything else in life
The Jedi feared all attachment. Their belief is that if one is attached to something it is the catalyst that will push you into the dark side. Luke had to free himself from this ideology. The attachment that he had to his friends allow him to overcome the persuasion of the dark side. It made him more powerful than what the emperor had expected. This is a valuable lesson that he passed on to grogu. As we saw in Luke's later life he did not understand that every person has to make their own choice. You can see this and how differently the outcomes were for his own nephew and a descendant of palpatine.
I feel attachment is a two way street, it can lead to the dark side as we with Anakin into Vader, but attachment can pull you back as we see with Vader back to Anakin. It’s about how you teach attachments and manage them that can lead to a fall or redemption or strength
Grogu has a thousand year life time. Din jarin will be gone in less than 50 years
Attachment doesn't lead to the dark side. Passion does.
Not true. In Legends, Luke falls in love, marries his old imperial assassin tasked with killing him and fathers a child with her. All without falling to the dark side.
@@DanB-qy9os Legends is literally based on work by Lucas prior to Disney's trash. It doesn't get much more canon than that. More canon than Disney's dumpster fires.
@@TheJMBon
The sequels are bad, yes, but the shows and movies that came after the sequels are not bad.
(In my opinion).
I am talking about canon star wars, if you prefer legends then fine (its your opinion), but if we are looking at canon star wars then Luke was fine to let Grogu past because of the fact above.
From what I understand now, is that many within the Jedi believe that love is in itself an attachment. Though this feels like it's more based on Yoda's experience with life that caused love to become collated to forming an attachment.
That being said, Anakin's love for Padme is an attachment, and a pretty unhealthy one at that. The guy was obsessive and he wasn't pretty when he allowed his emotions to control how he thinks
It’s fear that’s the true enemy. We saw it in Anakin when he was frightened to lose Padme. If he learned to confront that fear, and wasn’t influenced by Palpatine, things could have changed differently.
Attachment itself doesn't lead to the dark side, but the ability to let go and properly deal with feelings is how to prevent going to the dark side. Not properly dealing with emotions is what leads to the dark side. Plo Koon proves this point if anyone every really paid attention to his story and that's something Luke did in now Legends teaching how to deal with emotions properly
Totally agree. Had Luke forced the way of the Jedi on Grogu it could have caused Grogu to resent him and he wouldn't be fully committed to being a Jedi. Which could have resulted in Grogu becoming a very dangerous individual. "A Jedi must have the deepest commitment" -Yoda.
That’s not Yoda! Yoda would say “the deepest commitment, a Jedi must have.”
@@BeaconLight7 umm......in The Empire Strikes Back, he LITERALLY says "a Jedi must have the deepest commitment, the most serious mind".
@@BeaconLight7 th-cam.com/video/i3jI3RrMsVI/w-d-xo.html
Grand Master Skywalker Is The Best Master, I’m Glad He Showed Baby Grogu Compassion And Let Him Choose His Own Path
please diagf at your earliest convenience
I wanna see someone of kit fisto species become lukes first student and apprentice
And a few decades later, Luke tried to kill his own nephew 😂😂😂
Eh the Disney movies are not the real saga. I call bullshit because fuck disney
there is no try only do
We don’t talk about that
Bruh, the sequels should be axed from Canon
Nothing Disney has touched should even be canonized
Also, in attack of the clones anakin says there is a difference between attachment, love and compassion
Did I miss an episode? I don't remember a scene where Luke gives Grogu any choices...I just remember Grogu showing up in Mando's cockpit bubble at the beginning of season 3 of the Mandolorian
Yes you did at least i think. Im pretty sure i remember luke showing grogu the armor mando gave to him and the lightsaber (i think) and let him decide
It might’ve been in Boba Fett show? At least I know they covered quite a bit for Mando in it for some reason
Ye it was in the Book of Boba Fett
Or they needed an excuse to keep Grogu out of the Jedi Temple when Kylo Ren comes knocking on the door.
Maybe but grogu would have been pretty bad ass by that point, he might have held his own.
A more trained Grogu v Kylo would be a great hypothetical fight.
@@mickadams1905s if now we don’t know when Grogus species exits the “Baby” stage. For example I believe Hutts who also live for hundreds of years are practically useless until they are 50. Grogu is 50 and he’s still stealing candy from other kids and getting into trouble like one. For all we know he could not fully mature until he’s around ~100-150 as Yaddle was young as a padawan and was still young 200 years later.
@@adamallen8787 Have you watched the show and seen how powerful this "baby" already is?
You don't think another 20 years under Luke would have some impact?
Not saying he would win, he just wouldn't be a push over.
Plus, I feel if grogu was forced that resentment would stay and fester and his attachment wouldn’t have been addressed leading him down the path to the dark side
People also have to realize that Luke chose to become a Jedi rather than being brainwashed into it and given arbitrary rules on how to use his own power. So he allowed Grogu to because he knows how valuable that choice was to himself.
I don't get why people think he's making the same mistake, old Jedi basically kidnapped children from their families at a young age and Luke gave Grogu a choice
But in the Expanded Universe material Luke Marries Mara Jade. If that’s not attachment I don’t know what is
Different Luke skywalker( A better 1 imo)
Wrong Kannan taught Ezra what it means to have friends and family he understood love an attachment and look at the Jedi he became
but we know the Jedi Order in the prequels did a trash job at trying to train their padawan’s minds
I think that it's more accurate to say that attachments can rather than do lead to the dark side because giving into attachments doesn't necessarily nor automatically do so. Afterall, Luke had his own attachments to his friends and yet he avoided giving into the dark side in Return of the Jedi
Well said, I for one LOVED that Luke gave him a choice. The former Jedi had no choice at all, if you showed aptitude for the force they scooped you up. I cannot wait to see how Grogu grows up!!
You a goofy though
In my opinion there's significant difference between love and passion.
Bad writing imo. Legends look (which otherwise looked to share some similarities with his counterpart in The Mandalorian) allowed attachment withing the order. Even he himself was married and had a son.
While attachment can lead to the darkside(seen with anakin and padme) its important to realize that anakin was forced to hide his relationship from everyone because it was basically illegal for jedi. while in the newer order they were allowed and probably taught how to control any type of problems that it would lead to. So in a way the new order faced this upfront while in a classic republic jedi era way, they were just so scared of the dark side that they tried to shut it out completely
I agree if Luke had forced Grogu then it could have been the same as what happened to his father Luke knew deep down that he would have chosen Mando
I think luke was right in giving grogu a choice in which path he chose to follow
Plus in the Actual Canon Luke did allow attachments and while it did come with some Falling there were hundreds more who were even stronger than the Old Republic Jedi because of it. Classic case of Removal vs. Control of Emotions
What I see is luke ransacked yodas house after he died and stole his light saber.
I can actually believe that, great analysis! What I first thought of it was that Luke was testing Grogu in a way. Luke wanted him to choose his love for the Mandalorian as he did for his father years ago. Once Grogu did, Luke happily took him back to Mando, sending him with R2 as to not arrouse suspicion or unwanted attention (as he's the most famous and probably hunted Jedi there is). But he took another ship at a safe distance to make sure his former student got home safely.
(That is if Disney is going to retcon the sequels and have Mando and the other shows be in the main universe with the sequels being a separate one altogether. If they don't, that will be a real disappointment for sure).
Star Wars needs to make a dedicated show on the formation of the New Jedi Order
It’s more of the Jedi forbidding attachment and punishing it that made people fall, because they felt like they were going to take the person/thing they are attached to away. Which leads to the dark side, not attachments themselves.
Yes, it's the fear of losing that which they are attached to. Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering.
In the case of Anakin, the counsel also showed zero regards to his instinct and premonitions. They didn't council him,but rather repeated the same thing of "Don't get attached".
It wouldn't kill them to hear him out snf try to understand
Attachment doesn’t lead to the dark side, failing to teach about dealing with the loss of attachment leads to the dark side. The Jedi were so afraid of people turning to the dark side simply because of the loss of someone dear to them. No one would turn evil just because their friend or loved one dies. And they treat hatred and anger as if they aren’t natural emotions. They don’t teach ways to deal with negative emotions, just to ignore them.
💯
Luke did the right thing on giving grogu a choice many were taken forcefully when they were kids and maybe didn’t even wanna be a Jedi
You can have compassion without attachment.
This is what Lone Wolf did and said with his son Gyegoro. Gyegoro had to choose between an attractive toy or a Samurai sword. If the son chose the toy Lone Wolf would have killed his son and joined him with his mother in death. He chose the sword and thus Lone Wolf taught him to fight. This was in an early 80's martial arts movie, "The Shogun's Assassin".
@Ban this youtube "You can't touch me! I'm the Shogun's brother!"
"The Shogun...means nothing to me! DIE!"
"Aaarrrgggh"! 🤣🤣🤣👍📽
I think he’s on the right track, and that in this context the choice was his best play, but forbidding attachment in general will inevitably lead back to the old order’s mistakes, if not in luke’s lifetime, in the future of his order.
Without his attachment to his father and his father to him Vader would have never realized the error of his ways.
The old Jedi order would've not given a choice
The old Jedi Order would have tried to buy the child from them or persuade the parents to give the child to them. And in rare and extreme circumstances, steal the children. To be fair, they didn't do that nearly as often during the Clone Wars as they did thousands of years ago, but it still happened.
Giving grogu a choice was something anakin never had, he had all the power he could want yet no control in his life as a jedi and a father so Palpatine lies about gaining control sounded pretty good compared to the jedi's control over him. However luke is no different as maybe if Kylo saw his family more he would not try to kill them.
Making it so that when the first order takes power there isn’t another master fucking Yoda roaming the galaxy, thanks brother
Luke used his attachment to save his friends, it wasn’t until he became Jake Skywalker that he turned to the dark side.
I like this. You could argue if mace and the other masters let anakin have a choice, he wouldn’t have felt like he had no choice, in doing what he did.
I would say that attachment in Star Wars is something that can pull you to the light side or to the dark.
True love is sacrifice, you either chose to sacrifice yourself for something or try to forcefully take that something away from you.
He is Mandalorian THIS IS THE WAY.
Yeah but there’s a middle ground. Luke coulda trained Grogu and still allow Mandalorian dad visits or summer vacations or Christmas. Luke was still a dick for making Grogu choose.
The legends luke jedi ordwr is way better and allows attachment.
Hell Luke was married and had sons.
Because instead of banishinh attachment and not teaching people to let go or just toss them aside like previous jedi order.
Luke legends jedi order allowed you have attachment and have close relationship like boyfriend/girlfriend.
But you had to tell one of jedi masters of the council or Luke and they would have special lessons and trials that you as a jedi and your partner would do together with the jedi master.
In order to prepare for the dark side and learn about how you can resist it.
Attachment doesn't lead to the dark side only obsessive attachment does. Obi wan was friends with many Jedi and best friends with Anakin. But his attachment wasn't obsessive. Anakin and grogu's attachments were. I think the Jedi should have allowed attachment. But teach them to let go when necessary. It would have prevented more people from turning to the dark side. because it would have taught them greater self control.
Even Din didn't give him the choice. It was all about "returning him to his kind" no matter how much it personally hurt Grogu or himself. Luke is the only one that allowed Grogu to decide.
You're going to far to explain the mistake made by Kathleen Kennedy to bring grogu back immediately.
nobody learns from past mistakes damn it. what’s the point of canceling The expanded universe just to rip it off and make it shittier and piss off the fan base either purposely or non-purposely. Seriously the new Canon has the exact same fucking history as the expanding universe. not only that they keep bringing stuff from the expanding universe into the new Canon which means that there’s absolutely no point on canceling or not adapting them into movies and shows
I agree withe you and i saw that as a step to change the Jedi ways…but we saw what happened in the last movies and it’s very sad because forbidding attachment was a easy path to avoid the dark side but i’m sure that was not the only one. What we saw with Grogu, Ahsoka is another way to use the force, neither Jedi, nor Sith because life is never black or white. I like that evolution
I'm not agree with you, luke make a big mistake with groogu.
The luke of disney is not very clever!
Well Luke is not a hypocrite for sure. He did pick his friends over Yoda's teaching back in his days. It would be unfair if he force the baby to do what he wants.
Anakin's attachment to his family is the very reason he was able to be redeemed in the first place.
As such, i feel attachments should be allowed and understood to allow for greater compassion between jedi.
I have too many mixed feelings about this. I really wish Grogu had trained with Luke and became a new Jedi.
Two things can be true at once. Yes giving choice is better than the old order, however he still is saying he forbids attachment, not that he's simply giving a choice.
And secondly, if someone feels attachments and you think attachment leads to the darkside, all kicking them out of the order would do is lead them to the dark side, as they'll have no training to keep them from going down that path.
I agree. I'll also add that Anakin should've been allowed to leave the Order and been given more support for himself and his mother by the people of Naboo.
Because the jedi is about controlling your feelings and thinking while the sith its about following your feelings and letting instincts take over.
To be honest I don’t think it’s about attachment at all. Luke is not against attachment or Jedi having it but we know that defying anyone who especially a child of their agency is not only wrong but evil and it cost the Jedi before a lot due to these errors in judgement. The question and proposition was more about who grogu wanted to become and a lot less about forcing a choice between the force or not the force.
I am definitely glad that he at least gave Grogu a choice instead of saying that attachment was just immediately wrong. But I still prefer the way legends Luke saw that people could have it both ways if they really wanted to. Because he recognized that closing yourself off from all attachment isn’t healthy either. He even went on to marry, have children, and encourage his students to do the same. Because it wasn’t the attachment that led to the dark side on its own. It was a lack of healthy coping mechanisms. When Anakin asked Yoda what he should do about his fears, Yoda basically said to just let go of it. But it’s never that simple and I think Luke understood that in legends.
While I do think Luke made the right choice in letting Grogu decide whether or not he wanted to be a Jedi, I do not think it should’ve been entirely based on his attachment to Din, especially since the bond they have is father and son. Luke was able to save Vader in the end because of their attachment to each other.
Sorry but i can't get past the part where disney did this to keep making and selling Grogu merchandise.
Grogu was forced back into the mandolorian by the higher ups of dosny he wasn't ment to rejoin mando
belief in the force guidance is what yoda and other members of the council had lost, qui-gonn told them Anakin was the chosen one yet they let their own will dictate how they guided him which is what led him to the dark side in the end. Luke is allowing grogu to see his own destiny and let the force work in its own way which is why luke was right to let him go back to the Mandalorian (not saying Kathleen Kennedy is tho )
Everything you said is true, but you are still wrong. It is not attachement that turn people to the dark side, it's the inability to let go. And that is the only thing that grogu needed to be tough, the ability to let go for when untimetly Mando die.
People misunderstand what attachment means in the context of Star Wars and the Jedi. When Jedi talk about having no attachments they aren’t saying that you can’t form relationships with other people (we form all kinds of different relationships all of the time), they aren’t saying that you can’t love other people. What they are talking about is taking possession of something/someone and not being able to let something/someone go.
Nothing lasts forever. A Jedi knows that the party has to end sometime. When the time comes for the party to end, a Jedi doesn’t keep trying to extend the party past it’s time, they let it end. Trying to hang onto something when it is time to let it go is taking possession of it, it’s forming an attachment to it, and it is ultimately selfish. It’s this selfishness that is the path to the dark side.
Anakin’s love for Padme was never the issue. The issue was that he couldn’t let her go. There is no situation where Anakin would have let Padme go. Take an example where Padme wanted to break up with Anakin, I seriously doubt he would have accepted that.
No attachments also means letting other people make their own decisions even if what they decide isn’t what you would like them to do because you do not possess them. They aren’t yours.
I completely agree, I never understood why fans were upset with Grogu going back to Mando. Luke did a very Luke thing to do and he allowed Grogu to choose his path over forcing a path onto him. Any we never know, maybe Grogu will go back to train with Luke in order to protect Mando.
Its just some fans.
He gave Grogu a choice instead of indoctrination. Sounds right to me.
Attachment “CAN” lead to the dark side. Yoda never said that attachment absolutely leads to the dark side.
I don't know how I feel about this scene personally. I wanted to criticize Luke for doing this. But at the same time I could respect and see why he would do something like this. So I'm about as split down the middle about this scene as the fan base is.
Luke was attached to his family, Leah, Han and Chewie, he didn't go to the darkside. He allowed Grogu to choose his own path, as Luke did.
Baby yoda is still BABY, he have two clans. He can chose to be a mandoliaran or jedi, or both
Its because they can’t form emotional connections that led to the darkside because they aren’t allowed
Luke in legends allowed love and compassion in his new order and even married Mara Jade and when she died he avenged her, luke in legends was far better and only a sith deals in absolute
In the beginning I was mad that grogu didn’t follow yoda and live up to grandmaster but Luke was right his heart and spirit wasn’t with the Jedi
The waffle House Has Found Its New Host
How does Luke look the same as he did over 50 years ago in episode 4,5,6
Letting Grogu choose makes the possibility of him becoming a sith Less-- thats my thought
I'm still a legends guy I don't pay much Attention to most this new stuff anymore
That's cap you look at obi one fell in love lost everything he loved and his lover and brother still stayed in the light side anyone can turn
He let him be the arquitect of his own path👍