Does God Punish Women with Pain in Childbirth?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 เม.ย. 2023
- This session is from the BibleProject Classroom class Adam to Noah, taught by Dr. Tim Mackie. The entire class is available for free on the BibleProject app at classroom-beta.bibleproject.c....
The word often translated as "childbirth" or "childbearing" (Heb. "herayon") in Genesis 3:16 is explicitly not the word for "labor" or "childbirth.” How does this shift our understanding of the consequences of humanity's choice in the garden? Join Dr. Tim Mackie and students as they practice their biblical interpretation skills in the Adam to Noah class.
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Love that last point Dr. Tim made. These consequences are specifically designed to show us, humans, that our ability to produce and multiply doesn't come from our own but is a blessing from GOD. The consequences put the focus back on YHWH instead of on ourselves.
Yes! That really brought it home for me!
I’ve always liked the Bible Project, but this guy comes across as kinda…. Well…. Shall we say… Flamboyant.
@@JackWhitehead1981 and so what??? Why are you judging him?
yoo! Magic Mike :D lol funny seeing you here 😂
@@langstonj2476 Oh hey 👋😂
I like this format. I like the others, too. I like Bible Project. I like the Bible
Me too :) 🌟💛
My thoughts exactly
me toooo
Needed this. As someone currently struggling to conceive with my husband. It’s Gods lament, not my punishment. Thank you Lord
oh really? Keep saying that to yourself during the actual painful delivery, which is REAL, and which the video doesn't address.
Prayers to you and your husband ❤🙏
@@eucharistangel4662 k
@@krkf8 thank you ♥️
Took us 5 years to conceive our first. We refused interventions. 14 years later we have 8. 3 are in Heaven waiting on the rest of us. I told God our family was His story to write and I was submitting to whatever He wanted (I thought 0 kids), I fell pregnant right after that prayer.
I cannot explain how happy I am to hear you guys discuss topics in the Bible that I’ve struggled with for years
Same, I know God doesn’t hate women, but it’s hard to read scripture without this kind of understanding.
With pregnancy and periods, and just life as a woman on this planet (especially us as black women). Many of us run to the scriptures to make sense of what is happening to us. But so many of us are let down when we read what’s there. God bless you Tim. You’ve helped me understand God much better. God is good, and doesn’t hate us.
Hello how do you reconcile your faith to your content?
@@sambeard5208 have I posted anything that is heretical ?
It was a punishment for sin from ya'll foremother eve.
You're so pretty, you look like a doll :D 🤍
Oh man, this is amazing. And if the whole bible is a story pointing to Christ, this interpretation of grief instead of labour pains fits so perfectly into the conditions under which Christ was conceived, birthed and raised. What a gracious father we serve, even at our fall he spoke grace
As a mom, just raising sinful humans is more difficult than if we were all without sin! Too often, I respond to my children's sinful behavior with my own sinful reaction. This increases "pain in bringing forth children."
This is exactly my interpretation also. Raising children is hard, in every stage. There is joy and peace and triumph but it’s still very hard for many different reasons.
Wow! Yes!! All of my own childhood trauma comes back in the way I respond to my children when they’re “misbehaving”. It’s the most painful part of motherhood for me because then I’m filled with guilt, my children are sad or feel ashamed themselves, etc.
Remember. God removed the memory of those muscles after we gave birth. We know that it hurt to go through it. But we dont remember what it felt like. ❤
..and walk in that same correction that you give your children. It makes a difference
So adopt basically
The end really brought it home for me! And verified everything I’ve been finding to be true in my life. I’ve been on a journey to produce something new and purposeful in my life and over the last couple years I’ve realized how HARD it is by my own personal power, and how much easier its becoming as I allow God to lead me and give me HIS life and HIS power to get it done. The whole process is becoming more and more stress free, the more and more I increase in my faith.
Surrender all
Wow this makes so much sense thankyou!
Yasss I totally ageee with you as there is a saying if it’s stressing you out let God lead cuz in his word it says Donit be anxious or worry about anything but insupplicationand in prayer only so cast it all to the Lord
Amen!
I know for a fact that it doesn't mean labor pain. Because I had 2 completely pain free unassisted births. Gave birth to both my boys in a birthing tub in my kitchen all alone (other than my husband) and didn't have an ounce of pain either time. They were the most spiritual/supernatural experiences I've ever had and nothing has made me feel closer to God.
Oh Lord may this be my testimony!
Cause you're a motha-lovin gangster that's why 🔫
I thought contractions are necessarily painful? (I don't know much about pregnancy sorry)
I've have 6 children. All painful and long labors. 3 natural..last one homebirth, which was my best birth. Regardless though, many women experience great pain in childbearing.
How is your experience logical to what the truth is ?
Can I just take a moment and express gratitude ‐ again - to Bible Project for the study, research, and teaching. And showing us [me] so, so much that I have never known about the Bible. Oh. My. Goodness.
PLEASE MORE OF THIS!! More classroom study! LOVE this!
13:20 Thankyou so much, Tim, for giving this exposé of this text. God bless you as you share God’s truth with the world!
I am a 70yr old woman who used the Strong’s Concordance to help me understand the Hebrew in this verse about 30yrs ago. I had seen a Jewish translation of the creation narrative in a public library many years before, and was shocked at its message… so I determined to study it for myself. I found that the Hebrew did, indeed, not speak of labour pains in childbirth. I started sharing this good news with other women, coupling it with God’s blessing on ‘the fruit of my womb’ (Deuteronomy 28:11; 30:9). No one in my Baptist church took me seriously. I waited till today to hear from a scholar that what I had found was true.
Hi Kym, would you mind helping me understand? I watched the video twice and for some reason I still do not understand what the verse was intended to mean.
@@rebone6550 sure.
As I understand it, God’s message to the woman was that what will come to pass as a result of what she did will be an enormous increase in her sorrow and pain. [What-will-come-to-pass) is birthed out of her decision to rely on that serpent’s words rather than her Creator’s words.]
Her desire was to her husband - not to her God - and it [her desire] ruled over her. In sorrow/hardship/toil she will bring forth children …this is not the birthing process. It is the parenting process.
God had blessed them saying be fruitful and multiply…. That blessing was no longer applied in its pure form. It was corrupted by Eve’s decision to turn away from her Creator.
@@kymdickman8910 ohkay, I understands. That is kind of sad if you think about it. So simply put, originally being a parent was still going to be somewhat difficult but not as difficult as it is after the sin of adam and eve?
But I guess it makes sense because it's like after they ate the fruit, they "knew too much" and sometimes "knowing too much" of something may bring a level of frustration, worry, and sorrow ESPECIALLY if you are a parent 😅... but I don't know, I'm still wrapping my head around this verse. Though I understand what you are saying. Thank you for shedding some light
@@rebone6550 you’re welcome.
It’s not that they knew too much; it’s that they didn’t have all knowledge about everything. Knowing Good and Evil without omniscience is deadly.
I think the last bit that Tim dropped was that about conceiving, how it will be so random that its not all about childbirth but the whole process of conceiving, including infertility, stillbirth, and grief of losing a child. Which is all true when the tree of life was taken away from Adam and Eve, the consequences of death and life had never had such a meaning until that day.
I agree. The “punishments” God gives is about showing them the difficulties they are going to go through to build kingdoms because they wanted to do it on their own. Consequences of sin. They wanted to go through Death to bring Life. That’s the Cross.
😮😮😮🤯🤯🤯🤯
Nonsense. Pain in childbirth is REAL. The little one never just comes out like toothpaste from a tube.
not one bible scholar on earth would agree with you.
It seems like the King James Bible already had it correctly translated. I am surprised he didn't mention that.
"Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee."
Genesis 3:16 (KJV)
This helps me make sense of why some women get pregnant easily while others don't, some enjoy the carrying stage, others don't, some give birth easily while others don't.
This content, this breaking down of THIS passage is desperately needed in the world. PLEASE, PLEASE make the whole discussion readily available as widely as possible!
So, looking at the Iain Provan commentary, where he mentions Gen. 3:16 inlcudes the hardship and pain in which children are "raised, and in which they die," it sound like the curse is not limited to the labor of conception, but more to the point of the labor of raising the children. This then more mimics the man's labor as the lifelong process of toil, since raising children is likewise a lifelong process of toil. Correct?
This is great point that I was also wondering.
mind blown I love that
Yes, but nowhere in this video did he speak to the FACT that actual labor pains are REAL. Children do not just SLIDE OUT LIKE TOOTHPASTE, so it WAS God's intention, period, case closed. If that fact is not acknowledged first, I reject any further conclusions.
@@eucharistangel4662 But notice how most women right after birth dont even mention pain, they are so elated that they child has arrived, the completely "forget" the pain They all speak of a euphoric feel, that scientist themselves have yet not been able to explain "halo effect"
@@Godwill3 Ummm... Jesus said it 2000 years ago, so I didn't need the reminder. I trust you know the verse?
I too feel like this has hit me like a huge lightning bolt and I'm so so so grateful for this lesson! This verse makes waaaaaay more sense now next to everything else. Thank you Tim! So grateful you unpacked this.
My mind was just blown away, and filled with thoughts now. That means good will make it more painful/difficult for people to have life both babies and food to live. And the pain of having kids is not about childbirth but from having the kids to pregnancy and raising them.
We disobeyed and dishonored the only true and loving God and abandoned his ways and chose violence for our lives.. his response as a merciful father is not to destroy us but like Tim said in reference to Hebrews 12, for our own good, as a means to discipline and teach us to trust him and his good ways, he lets these pains take course.. just as we discipline our kids for their own good.
The way this was broken down is amazing 😭😭 real studious nature to understanding the word of God
I love this discussion. It helped me clarify so much because I know God to be good and gracious, and this “punishment” always seemed unclear to me. I gave birth to my children without pain meds, and I loved it. Labor pains are small compared to all the other circumstances around being a mother: conception, living each day giving my body to pregnancy, the aftermath of a pregnant body, raising children in this difficult world, etc.
The idea of childbirth being a punishment from God did not resonate with me. We create other humans as the fruit and labor of our life. It is a gift He gave only to women, not men and not angels. We create the vessels that will carry the soul destined for eternity. We get to nurture and love unconditionally as nearly He does.
Of course there is pain with labor and birth. But the word pain isn’t descriptive enough for the context of being a mother. And did God multiply the sorrow or pain, or was God reflecting that man through sin multiplied their own sorrow?
Tim really helped widen the lens here.
There is more than pain in producing fruit. It’s grief and sorrow and toil that comes with every part of being a woman - from conception to birth, raising children in difficulty all the way to possibly seeing your own child die. “Pain in childbirth” is a Sunday drive compared to what producing fruit actually involves.
The English translation seems to say “you’re cursed with pain in labor”. Maybe the Hebrew version says “mankind sinned, and now there is pain in the world such as labor pain or a broken leg. It’s just what it is.
But being a woman means that there is increased difficulty in bringing forth fruit into this world. There is now a test to our faith for what we need most. The only way to produce successfully is to trust God, not scheme to get what we want”. And when we stop trusting God, like in the garden, then our pains around the work of our hands (being a mother) will be harder.
Can you explain in a simple context of what the increase in child bearing means? Does it mean that he increased the pain in giving birth or something else?
It is just so wrong to see many Christian’s women who simply believed that they are being cursed by God to go through the pain of childbirth. Why is it that people who called themselves Christians not exercise their faith by entrusting their birth to God? God is the creator of our lives and sexual reproduction and childbirth is of God as well. Since God created childbirth, shouldn’t we believe that God is in control of the birth process? Pain and discomfort is a definite thing because the human body was designed with a smaller birth canal and that is the price to pay for being able to walk on two legs instead of four. The pain is further elevated because women today have so much fear and anxiety even before they go into labour while medical practice actually made women lie in a position that causes even more pain just for the convenience of the doctors. We should be grateful to be human beings because some animals have it much worse than us. Just imagine some species of cats, the male penis have spikes and imagine the kind of pain the female cat goes through while having sex. Some other female animals like raccoons even give birth through a long penis liked structure. Imagine the kind of suffering. Women do have the privilege of creating a new life within their body and they have the ability to nourish their child both during and after pregnancy. That is something that men will never be able to experience.
@@kennethfokI see it as a curse because it is a curse.
@@wft15It isn’t exactly a curse. But it’s more about test of the woman’s faith in God. Will she rather put her trust in God during difficult moments like childbirth? Or will she rather rely on her own strength and end up being in fear and with lots of anxiety? It is the fear and anxiety that results in the woman going through more pain because her muscles tense up. Any random man that impregnates a woman do not feel her pain during childbirth. But if the pregnancy happens within a marriage that is instituted by God, the man will feel it because he is with her throughout the pregnancy right all the way till childbirth. Marriage is sacred to God, the whole sexual union leading to conception is sacred, even the moment of childbearing and breastfeeding is sacred. They are all made in the image of God. So the question to many modern women today is will you trust God during childbirth or will you rather suffer more pain because you relied on your own strength? No one forces anyone to make a particular choice. Even God does not force you to make a choice. It’s up to every individual to decide but God clearly spoke about what will happen when one chooses either of the choices.
@@kennethfok what a load of nonsense!
I believe that his explanation (as revealed to him) is the more accurate interpretation of that verse. Also, the background color and lighting of the room are so pleasing to the eyes and suitable for this kind of classroom study.
BibleProject creates free resources to help you experience the Bible. Everything we make is funded by generous supporters around the world. You can see our entire Classroom library, check out our other resources, and give at bibleproject.com.
Thank you for publishing this excerpt from Classroom. I took this class (Adam to Noah) and learned a great deal. The segment that you highlight here is especially helpful to me as a pastor. Thank you!
This is absolutely fascinating. I'm so grateful for all of Bible Project's work so far, but to listen to Dr. Tim Mackie dissect and contextualise the translation is truly incredible. Wow - the power of our words and their meaning. What a resource we have right here. Super grateful!
This is wonderful to know. Thank you so much for bringing this to our attention. God bless you all at Bible Project for all you’re doing. ❤
Wow! Wow wow wow! This was so important for me. Not only did I need IVF to conceive my child, but my husband left me soon after she was born. Itsabon has been my life the last few months (maybe years) and I now can find it mirrored back to me in the garden. Thank you.
This is fantastic, and does explain so much better the natural belief ive always been lead to or wanted to have with this passage. It does lead me to wonder why scholars haven't adjusted our translation to reflect this meaning better...
Men and women ultimately have little control over results, but must trust in God for the process
LOVE LOVE LOVE that he’s doing this! It’s so hard to figure out what’s true and who to learn the Bible from, Tim is one of the few I trust to teach me truth.
I can’t say how much you have brought and shed light on this verse, thank you so much Guys🤝🏽
This verse really confused me since I was using NIV translation. And I just couldn't believe how painful is the consequences of Adam And Eve's sin for the next generation of women in their childbearing compared to the pain from a man's toil. It left me wondered "is this really God wants us women to feel as a punishment?". Now it really make sense. It's very clear to me now. Truly God is fair and just. His intention is always good. He lets us experience pain to strengthen our faith on Him.
I'm no biblical scholar but perhaps man's toil is a bit more significant than it seems. Famine drought, plagues etc.
Plus women are bullies. 😁
women suffer from famine, drought and plagues too tho@@stardogMLB
I absolutely enjoy your content. I actually read over this passage last night and pondered on that same verse because I always wondered if that's what the verse really meant. Thank you for this deep dive into the true meaning of the Hebrew text. I truly appreciate it.
so much blessed. we need more teachers like Dr Tim. just makes me cry.
I love hearing the name of the Lord spoken out loud and kudos to Tim and the rest of the team for using it so freely. I’m not used to hearing other people say it out loud and I’m shocked and pleased every time!
Gods name is so holy that godly Jews wouldn’t speak it or even write it down.
@@brianevans4 Yeah they’ve done a video on it before!
Thank you, Bible Project! These studies are great for those seeking a greater degree of understanding when studying the Bible. Your work is appreciated!
I'm currently 11 weeks pregnant and I had this discussion with a friend, questioning why why why lol thank you so much for this teaching
What profound teaching of God's words and intent. It's truly mind-blowing. Thank you for these remarkable teachings. Bless your heart.
This is profound for me in terms of interpreting a spiritual dream. Thank you for bringing clarity and peace❤
I can't believe that all is free in your app and it is a beautiful app, may God bless you more and your staff.
Wow! My young male friends who died from dangerous jobs. The sweet girls who couldn't get pregnant.Thankyou. So that was a great show everyone. Praise God who is just. We had it easy, we don't now, we will again
Love this kind of study. More of this type of content please!
Thank you
These round table type studies are great to watch.
This was such a good study! Please do more of these !!
This study was SO AMAZING.
I love EVERYTHING about the Bible Project!
GENTLE MASSAGE OF THE SERVICS
HELPS IT TO OPEN UP BETTER
KNOWLEDGE IS POWER
This was fascinating! Please publish part two, where they discuss the second part of Gen 3:16!
Thank God for you, Tim!
Could it be that the frustration of the man's labor is a frustration of the command to subdue the earth and have dominion? And the frustration of the woman's labor and the circumstances surrounding it is the frustration of the command to be fruitful and multiply?
That makes so much sense, I like that interpretation!! I really appreciate how you used the same word, "labor", in the contexts of man's "curse" and the woman's "curse". The words look the same but mean two totally different things but it's such a cool parallel!! Thanks for that :)
Wow 👊
Thanks, Dr. Tim Mackie for sharing! ❤️
As someone who was diagnosed with a debilitating and life-threatening disease, and needed a hysterectomy at just 24... I wish I heard this. For years, my pain was passed off as the "punishment" dealt out from the curse. I surely hope the your message reaches other women struggling with health and conception in similar ways.
This was so good! Makes me want to dig deeper into my current study.
Absolutely amazing…couldn’t agree more Tim…like a lighting bolt of understanding.
I love this presentation on the language and that it gets to the heart of the poetry of the OT we often don't dive into deeply enough.
However, it's NOT unjust for God to assign physical pain or emotional grief to His creation, He is God and He is always good. Humanity tried to seize the blessing of God for themselves and become like Him, they are guilty and they "birthed" all that our world suffers from today. He shows them that they cannot do anything fruitful on their own. If anything, God was merciful to them in their sinful state, which all of us now naturally resist because of the curse of sin and death. God planned redemption, in light of their betrayal, and then we see Jesus, who truly didn't deserve any pain, any grief, any justice. He was truly innocent, but He chose to suffer, be humiliated, abandoned, and alone on the cross for the very ones who betrayed Him and the Father. We are totally at fault. Only by God's sovereign choice are we saved by His benevolent grace.
Please consider that God allowing or causing pain is not evil. God is not evil or morally arbitrary. He is always good and He has redeemed us. Romans 5:6 "While we were yet without strength, Christ died for the ungodly".
Your life is not falling apart it's falling into place in Jesus name amen
Amen 🙌
Amen! 🙏😇✝️❤️
Thank you for this.
BP classroom is excellent. Love the classes.
That was really good and showed new light on conception and the meaning of pain!
Hope you produce more classes very eye 👁️ opening!!!
God bless!!
I think the miracle of childbirth may bring pain, but the strength and resilience of women shines brightest in those moments.😊😊
It is true that women are much more resilient than men when it comes to enduring pain. And that is why a mother’s love is more powerful than a father’s love for the children. After all the pain and exhaustion from childbirth, women are more likely to treasure and protect their children than men. Perhaps, childbirth is supposed to bring about more discomfort than pain and women go through whatever they are going through because we humans walk on two legs rather than four legs so the birth canal was adapted in such a way to support that. Most of the pain that women today go through is due to the fear and anxiety of childbirth while modern medical practices have made women lie in an uncomfortable position for the convenience of the doctors. Even the pain experienced during sexual intimacy is due to fear and anxiety and many women were not taught the correct things regarding sexual intimacy. Ultimately, God’s design was for men to toil and labour to provide for the family while women labour through pregnancy and childbirth. But His design for sexual intimacy was never about suffering in pain but enjoying the pleasure that comes with it.
Thats what im thinking, pain teaches great strength that you wouldnt have without the toil. Its an opportunity to learn and focus on discipline
This video is very intriguing! I love to learn more about the things of God and truly understand the Bible and this video helps me with that a lot. Keep these videos coming
🤯🤯🤯 that description IS my life experience. WOW
Thank you sir. I started watching religious videos right after I found out about this channel.🙂❤️
As a first time mom trying to prepare mentally for birth, I’ve really found birth to be a unique opportunity to fellowship with Christ in the cross. There are so many parallels!
1. We both suffer because of sin. Neither the cross nor painful childbirth were part of God’s plan A. The holy desire to bring forth and sustain life, be it the continuation or the salvation of humanity, inspired both Jesus and me to embrace temporary suffering for the lasting reward of seeing the Father’s will done.
2. Jesus lived His life knowing that the cross was ahead. Similarly, when you get pregnant, you know that this many months down the road, birth is inevitably coming. Jesus, too, braced Himself for impact and had to gather His strength in prayer. I get to follow in His footsteps and trust that I can endure the task set before me by the grace of God, just like Jesus did who had the power to put an end to it any time but chose not to for my sake.
3. Jesus had a vision on the cross of the ultimate victory of life, of resurrection, of family. He knew there was great reward coming after. Same with me! I’ll hold a child in my hands that I get to raise up in the way of life, and I’ll recover and be just fine. Our suffering is not random or fruitless.
The difference is that Jesus went on the cross for sinners, declaring us worth every moment of pain before He got anything in return. When I go to suffer, in whatever scenario, I get to do it unto the Lord, who has always been worthy and deserving of our service. But because of the overwhelming goodness of God, I don’t have to do a thing that Jesus didn’t do for my sake first.
In effect, God even redeemed this curse, making it an interactive demonstration of how great His love is. And only us women get to experience it. It really is a privilege, a faith- and character building exercise like no other.
Oh wow FJ. As a father to seven kids, this is deeeep waters! We've only brushed up against what you've so eloquently described. ❤
@@PatrickKQ4HBD I'm glad you found this edifying :)
I felt this during my first pregnancy but you so eloquently articulated it ♡ thank you
This is so good! Thanks for diving into this topic.
Love this. Grateful for y’all.
This is sooo good! Dr. Mackie is the man...
Wonderful discuss! Thanks to all of you!
I had a Sunday School teacher talk about the trouble with translation of this passage. It was the first time I had heard of it and never heard it anywhere mainstream since.
And there is many more! Happy hunting:
See Revelation - Hell is cast in to the Lake of Fire Burning with Brimstone.
Without translating, we have issues right away. The common teaching is Hell is the place of infinite judgement; but this passage says something contrary.
Translated: Hades(grave-pit, u seen in Hebrew sheol) is cast in to the lake of fire(PUR)…Brimstone(sulphur, which is essential in metal purification) and TORMENTED ( Basanos-A touchstone: black silious stone used to test purity of precious metal; hence the verb because of extreme pressure rubbing against the object to reveal a streak).
Totally different image!
I LOVE this. This is a mighty problem passage in the Bible that I do feel Is misunderstood quite often. Like, why would god “punish” a woman with bearing children, something that he has expressed in other verses, is a blessing. Bearing children is called “the heritage of the Lord.” It doesn’t make sense if taken in the way that it is commonly interpreted as. Thank you for shedding some light on this, it was very helpful.
What does it mean by he will increase the sorrow and conception doesn’t that mean a painful child birth how do u understand this?pls explain it to me
@@laurenrtyy well, in this they talk about the way that “sorrow in conception” is interpreted as. “Sorrow”, I guess, basically means that you will have children and it will cause you grief. The “curse” was telling them that “this” was their new normal now. The “grief” he is referring to, isn’t just limited to the immediate and temporary pain associated with bearing a child, it extends beyond that, into the children sinning and falling away. If that makes sense. The “curse” for eve, wasn’t “just for eve” just like the “curse” for Adam wasn’t just for Adam. Of course women deal with the curse on the ground as well, and men deal with raising children as well. So if interpreted in this way, this includes both men and women in both curses. It makes sense this way, at least to me after watching this video. I was also always told that pain in childbirth was the curse, but if that was true, then why do animals experience the exact same thing. In fact, there are animals that have it far worse than humans. If you ask for the “Why?” In everything, you will have an eternal stream of questions. This “curse” may have been the answer to the “Why?” When asking about why childbirth is so painful. But when analyzing the original context, it doesn’t seem that simple to me anymore. As for WHY childbirth is so difficult, it’s probably because it’s sacred. No GREAT WORK in this life, was meant to be achieved easily. The greater the reward, the greater the sacrifice. If that makes sense. Bearing children is no laughing matter, nothing to take lightly, but so is the very concept of bringing a child into this world. It’s perhaps the most sacred thing that any of us can do. If it was easy, it would be almost insulting. Children would be seen as a “Whatever” sort of thing. That would be very bad.
@@jasminejensen4632What you said does make sense. The greater the reward, the greater the sacrifice. Many consider it unfortunate and a curse upon women to go through child birth with great pain. But I’m sure that for the Godly women who have given birth, they see the pain in a different way. To be able to go through such pain to birth a new life into this world is indeed empowering. And the feeling of being able to create a new life with their body is something that only women will be able to fully appreciate and understand. While it is painful, God did not allow women to go through it alone. The institution of the marriage union makes the whole process from trying to conceive right up till child birth something that is sacred and shared between a man and a woman within their marriage. Child birth pain only happens during child birth, but men are continuously toiling just to provide for himself as well as his wife and children. And because of the sacredness of the marriage union, couples enjoy sexual intimacy and procreation without the woman thinking about the pain until the actual birth process.
@@jasminejensen4632That’s a great explanation. It is true that some animals have it worst than us humans. And it was God’s desire that we humans enter the sacred union of marriage before having children. Even the act of sexual intercourse is considered sacred to God which is why premarital sex is a sin to God.
Fascinating. Thank you for covering these great topics that frame our view of God.
I really enjoy this format.
Thank you so much Bible Project.
I just need to share that this is so insightfull into God's purpose in our life as a family. My husband genuinly mourns everyday that he has to spend time working (living to make money) instead of being with us (our daughter and I) and I mourn every second that I think I am no there to raise my child as God would want me to be. I also lament that my own limited and frigile
derstanding might blindsight me from the way I should lead her to, and also how this world is trying every second to pull my daughter away from God's plans for her.
This is such good brain candy!! I GREATLY APPRECIATE THIS CHANNEL, this inspires me sooo much
May the Lord bless you all from santo Domingo, Dominican Republic! I really loved this video!
This was really good, thank you! It brought a lot of healing to my heart and understanding 🙏💗
this video is a breath of fresh air. i was once told by a male theology professor that women shouldn’t get epidurals because they should have to “feel the full weight of their punishment”.
i do have a question i’ve never been able to find an answer for:
in the modern world where both men and women have to work (or toil the ground so to speak) does that mean women now bear the weight of both curses while men only have the one?
No, we don’t bear two curses because that passage was not necessarily literal in that only men will have to work in the world. Both man and woman transgressed, but woman was cursed to painful childbirth and submission to her husband because she was the one to initiate the sin.
Sister, I also see no reason why a woman should suffer the pains of childbirth. But wanting your brother to suffer the same amount of curses as you are is not a Christian. Normal childbirth is much healthier for both, but no man who loves his wife and children will prefer that they suffer with pain, not even the pain of work that the modern world requires.
I see what you're saying but when we have trouble conceiving or have those terrible thoughts that it's somehow our fault, I'm sure that our male partners feel the same grief. I think that in a way we both bear the consequences of both "curses". We both toil and work hard but we are also both affected by the grief or anxiety around conceiving.
As I understand it, God did not punish Eve and Adam directly when they confessed what they had done. He cursed and punished the serpent.. and cursed the ground for their sake.
As a consequence of their choice they had to fall from the presence of God and experience sorrow and pain. But God expected this and provided a plan of mercy for Adam and Eve and their posterity to be redeemed. Eve was told her sorrow and conception would be multiplied.. other translations say God multiplied her “pain in childbearing,” but I think it is interesting that in the KJV it says He will multiply her “sorrow and conception”. Conception means fertilization in the womb, but also means the growing of thought, idea, design. I believe God was saying to the woman that he would multiply her sorrow in childbearing, but through that experience he would multiply her wisdom and design by having this very intimate knowledge of sacrifice for another life… something that would give her a very real and personal connection to and understanding of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ.
God then told Eve that her desire would be to her husband and he shall “rule over” her. As I understand this phrase, this means because of the weakness childbearing and rearing would cause in her, she would desire help and need to rely on the strength of her husband. He would not rule over her as if he were a king and she were a mere servant, but rather it was more the idea that he was to watch over and protect her and their family, like a shepherd over a flock.. standing in authority against any threat that would seek to destroy or take His flock.. in this he would gain an intimate knowledge of the role of Jesus Christ as our shepherd and defender.
Remember all of this is very symbolic of Jesus Christ, his role and relationship with the church. Christ said we were to be joint-heirs with him, not lesser-heirs. God had commanded Adam that Eve should remain with him and that they should multiply and replenish the earth, so when she partook of the fruit she would be seperate from God and Adam, so in order to obey God’s other commandment, that she should remain with Adam and they should bear children, Adam took on the transgression of Eve and through the seed of the woman (born Jesus Christ), they would be saved.
Don’t look at the suffering we have on earth as a curse or punishment, but look at it as an opportunity to come more intimately acquainted with God.
Also the idea that a husband is above the wife in station and that the wife must ‘remember her place’ is simply false. Christ did not model the relationship that way. They are to be one, as God commanded.
Oh goodness, I don't think that theology professor ever read the gospels. Why then, would Jesus had suffered on the cross??
Cool side note though, you can deliver a child with out meds Or pain. God lead me through a miracle birth like that. I was singing and praying and worshiping right to the end and never felt a single bit of pain. Nothing wrong with my pain tolerance, I definitely felt the contractions that after and those definitely hurt😂 not as much a s I imagine labor would have. I think God let me feel that so that I really "got" that I had experienced a miracle. When we keep our eyes on Him we are able to do endure anything :)
It's also a perfect metaphor for the loss of the protection of the Garden and Sabbath Rest in God! Now you will have Pain/Anxiety of/over your children born and raised outside of God's perfection. Brilliant study
I love the format this is in. Would love if there were more like it released!
Brilliant! Thanks for this enlightening video!
Thank you for making and posting this. As someone studying several languages, I always know it's better to read a text in the language the author wrote it to really understand what's being communicated. I appreciate the clarity that looking at the Hebrew brings. This makes more sense than traditional "labor pain" teachings, as it frames Eve's consequence in the context of her original call to be fruitful and multiply. Truly, today, due to violence, disease, and cultural indoctrination conceiving, birthing, and raising children (especially god-fearing children) is a more arduous task.
This discussion was amazing and now the scripture passage makes a lot more sense to me and God's intent with what is said
I wonder if the pain God meant was an emotional pain more than a physical pain… Being a mother of three daughters, I have went through both, but the hardest part is the emotional pain… Teaching them and loving and watching them go their own way, and make mistakes and always being there for them no matter what… I have learned through my daughters more about the love of God for me Than anything I’ve read in His Word, or went through…but the hardest is the loss of my oldest daughter four years ago, it is the greatest pain anyone could ever bear, which gave me a deeper understanding, and realization of the love of God, as well, sending his only begotten son, and watching Him being perfect and sinless suffer for my (our) sins… Now, when I think about that, I cannot bear the thought, and I break down in tears of shame and gratitude!
My heart is with you for your loss
I’ve asked God for a while, “ why were all this women infertile” and now I get it , thank you
This is amazing, thank you all
Thanks be to God! 🙏😇✝️❤️
There was toil all throughout the story of Hagar, Sara, Abraham and Ishmael before, during and after. Whew! Good video!
This was SO helpful. Thank you!
I’m loving this.❤❤❤❤ thanks for sharing.
have forward to a few people this excellent humble teaching
I really enjoyed this video. Thank you for sharing. Stay blessed.
5:51 "ohhh snap!" Yes, I relate! 😂
This is so interesting as the way Dr.Tim puts up the things..Like this addressings..
What’s fascinating is that the KJV and the NKJV translate this passage the same way Dr. Tim does. Just an observation that I find interesting.
Wow talk about understanding of scriptures going over heads for centuries and missing the heart of God. Bravo
Fascinating!
Pastor, I request you to create more videos on Bible study on each characters.. It'll be a blessing to online bible community.
it is good to learn how the translations may not necessarily be the correct original perspective, and it is good to learn the real intent or perspective..... i believe this is the way to "study" scripture(s) and God's word, in searching for Truth.
this has soley caused me to think 2ce about kjv only.... excellently explained.
I’ll be going into labor for my first child in 8 weeks, and this video was extremely helpful to me. The “toil” or “struggle” or “labours” that both men and women will face at times will not last forever, but will be used towards Gods glory and goodness for us.
I will be going into labor with my first in 7 weeks!
Thank you so much for this study! I have always felt like the old testament portrayed God as disliking women or treating us differently as men and it always felt so wrong.
The irony is that societies that reject God and the Bible like the contemporary West devalue and treat women far worse.
God cursed each and every human being, no matter how nice they are, with DEATH.
Does that feel wrong to you as well?
If so, DEAL with it.
God is sexist throughout the bible. If you think otherwise, you clearly haven’t read it.
@@eucharistangel4662death is one of the few blessings life has to offer.
Im a sinner but asked God for forgiveness now I'm free to live for God thanks for his son Jesus Christ