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Did this today with a stanley no 5 1/2. On ash and oak, no issues, just oiled the sole, little to no tear out, nothing a no80 can't sort. All for the price of £45.
I use mostly bevel-up planes, and do prefer them, for the reasons that Mark mentions. However, there are two issues you'll encounter with bevel-up planes: One, you tend to get more wear on the "face" side of the blade (the side that's down in a bevel-up blade) than you do with a bevel-up blade; that means that you have to remove considerably more metal when sharpening. Two, if you want to camber the edge of the blade, you have to add quite a bit more curvature with a bevel-up blade than with a bevel-down blade (roughly three times as much, though it depends on the bevel angle).
for beginners who haven’t quite nailed sharpening yet bevel up has an advantage but once you learn how to sharpen and keep it sharp an old Stanley plane can get the same results. Stanley made a low angle jack and it barely sold. Stanley never made 50 or 55 degree frogs which would give the same advantage of a bevel down plane. personally i’m gonna stick with my lie nielsen no 4 with the standard frog for most work as it is easy to adjust and can take a super fine cut
Two options for bevel down planes to deal with highly figured woods. One you can swap out the frog for a 50 or even 55 degree frog. Second you can designate one of your plane blades to be a higher angle by putting a significant back bevel on the blade(much more than just the ruler trick). Either way will work and both require extra force.
Mostly bevel down here. To be honest: because that's what Paul Sellers uses (i don't use power tools, other than a drill). But I'm actually quite happy with those.. I do prefer bevel up for shooting end grain though.
Standard bevel down + back bevel does the same effect, plus a BD is a heavier plane which is super heavy to start but has good inertia to keep that going through the surface. Just my preference.
Hello dewalt 735 planer. If too wide, I take it to the wide belt sander for 45$ they do it in 10 minutes. Then I’ll use the plan if I have to, but I’m not great with them so I rely on the other stuff 😮
So this configuration, a steep angled blade on a low angle plane would give the same cutting angle as a regular angled plane with the bevel down on this board? And thus the same result?
The bed angle on most bevel-up planes is 12 degrees, so you would want a 33 degree bevel angle on the iron if you want to match the typical 45 degree frog angle on a bevel-down plane. The 50 degree bevel iron used in the video would yield a 62 degree cutting angle, which is considerably higher than a standard 45 degrees and is good for difficult reversing grain. Regardless of angles, sharpness is key.
@@dp1381 got it! So if my math is mathing that means on a plane with a regular 45 degree shoe, if I flipped the iron around and ground a 17 degree cutting angle on it, I’d get the same 62 degrees. However then I guess I’d have a really thin cutting edge compared to the beefy 50 degrees he has here? And that wouldn’t hold up to tough grain.
So I got a killer deal on a used benchdog no 62. Do you or the good ole buddies at Rockler know if you can use a Veritas or LN version of the plane blades on the bench dog?
The same thing can be accomplished by putting a micro bevel on the top of a standard plane blade to achieve the same result. And since the modern standard planes are heavier, it’s easier to get through the cut due to more inertia generated by the plane’s weight.
Oh man, you didn't show the 2 types so people know how to tell the difference. This looks like a bevel down, because the blade is laying down where the other planes have a 60° or so blade and seems like the would be the up version?
No this is a bevel down plane. The distinction is the bed is at 12 degrees and the bevel is facing up and usually sharpened to around 30 degrees so you get an effective cutting angle of 42 degrees or so. But as Marc showed you can sharpen a blade to a much higher angle to get a higher angle of attack. Bevel down the frog sets the angle fixed at 45 degrees. No matter how you sharpen the primary and secondary bevel it is still 45 degrees. The only way to increase the angle of attack on a bevel down plane is to put a back bevel on the plane blade.
So would you say that next level wood finishing is done by plane? Im at a point where im thinking of starting to do my finishing by plane instead of sanding looks so much clearer
I had no idea higher angles dealt with tough grain better
🤦♂️
I had no idea different irons had different angles, the more you know 🤷🏼♂️😂
With higher angle the plane will like scrape the wood so it will create a better result
bevel down and well set chipbreaker 😍
Did this today with a stanley no 5 1/2. On ash and oak, no issues, just oiled the sole, little to no tear out, nothing a no80 can't sort. All for the price of £45.
I use mostly bevel-up planes, and do prefer them, for the reasons that Mark mentions. However, there are two issues you'll encounter with bevel-up planes: One, you tend to get more wear on the "face" side of the blade (the side that's down in a bevel-up blade) than you do with a bevel-up blade; that means that you have to remove considerably more metal when sharpening. Two, if you want to camber the edge of the blade, you have to add quite a bit more curvature with a bevel-up blade than with a bevel-down blade (roughly three times as much, though it depends on the bevel angle).
I think there are advantages to both. I like bevel down, personally.
Love not having to mess with the chipbreaker, but I miss the easy micro-adjustments of a standard bench plane.
for beginners who haven’t quite nailed sharpening yet bevel up has an advantage but once you learn how to sharpen and keep it sharp an old Stanley plane can get the same results. Stanley made a low angle jack and it barely sold. Stanley never made 50 or 55 degree frogs which would give the same advantage of a bevel down plane. personally i’m gonna stick with my lie nielsen no 4 with the standard frog for most work as it is easy to adjust and can take a super fine cut
Two options for bevel down planes to deal with highly figured woods. One you can swap out the frog for a 50 or even 55 degree frog. Second you can designate one of your plane blades to be a higher angle by putting a significant back bevel on the blade(much more than just the ruler trick). Either way will work and both require extra force.
Mostly bevel down here. To be honest: because that's what Paul Sellers uses (i don't use power tools, other than a drill). But I'm actually quite happy with those..
I do prefer bevel up for shooting end grain though.
Standard bevel down + back bevel does the same effect, plus a BD is a heavier plane which is super heavy to start but has good inertia to keep that going through the surface. Just my preference.
Hello dewalt 735 planer. If too wide, I take it to the wide belt sander for 45$ they do it in 10 minutes.
Then I’ll use the plan if I have to, but I’m not great with them so I rely on the other stuff 😮
Very Nice Marc TWW!
So this configuration, a steep angled blade on a low angle plane would give the same cutting angle as a regular angled plane with the bevel down on this board? And thus the same result?
The bed angle on most bevel-up planes is 12 degrees, so you would want a 33 degree bevel angle on the iron if you want to match the typical 45 degree frog angle on a bevel-down plane. The 50 degree bevel iron used in the video would yield a 62 degree cutting angle, which is considerably higher than a standard 45 degrees and is good for difficult reversing grain. Regardless of angles, sharpness is key.
@@dp1381 got it! So if my math is mathing that means on a plane with a regular 45 degree shoe, if I flipped the iron around and ground a 17 degree cutting angle on it, I’d get the same 62 degrees. However then I guess I’d have a really thin cutting edge compared to the beefy 50 degrees he has here? And that wouldn’t hold up to tough grain.
Now you tell me - and I have only been watching since 2006. :\)
So I got a killer deal on a used benchdog no 62. Do you or the good ole buddies at Rockler know if you can use a Veritas or LN version of the plane blades on the bench dog?
Back Bevel for the Win, Baby!
I bought a plane like this, but I can never use it correctly. I’m new to woodworking and thought this would be an easy tool. Couldn’t even set it up
# 80 scraper plane.
The same thing can be accomplished by putting a micro bevel on the top of a standard plane blade to achieve the same result. And since the modern standard planes are heavier, it’s easier to get through the cut due to more inertia generated by the plane’s weight.
Oh man, you didn't show the 2 types so people know how to tell the difference. This looks like a bevel down, because the blade is laying down where the other planes have a 60° or so blade and seems like the would be the up version?
No this is a bevel down plane. The distinction is the bed is at 12 degrees and the bevel is facing up and usually sharpened to around 30 degrees so you get an effective cutting angle of 42 degrees or so. But as Marc showed you can sharpen a blade to a much higher angle to get a higher angle of attack.
Bevel down the frog sets the angle fixed at 45 degrees. No matter how you sharpen the primary and secondary bevel it is still 45 degrees. The only way to increase the angle of attack on a bevel down plane is to put a back bevel on the plane blade.
i do think people died because they burned to many calories
Bevel up….because I’m not a Neanderthal…and I also use the Domino, because, progress 🍻
So would you say that next level wood finishing is done by plane? Im at a point where im thinking of starting to do my finishing by plane instead of sanding looks so much clearer