Savage Books I agree with what you said about The Legend Of Korra not being as good as The Last Airbender, in fact I don't think any of the shows that have tried to imitate Last Airbender's success like Voltron: LD or She-Ra: POP are better than The Last Airbender or even The Legend Of Korra, the only show I can think of that even reaches that level is The Dragon Prince
*"Avatar is the highest grossing movie in the world, but it left ZERO impact onto modern culture."* Who the hell are you lying at? *"[Marvel Cinematic Universe] has made dozens of movies, but only two has left an impact on culture, Infinity War and Endgame"* . Because Iron Man, The Avengers, Captain America: The Winter Soldier, Guardians of The Galaxy and most peculiarly Black Panther of them all meant nothing... and I am saying this as a man who can't stand most Disney owned franchises in general.
Before I get completely off topic from your video, wonderful vid, and I love the amount of detail you put into it! Can people please realize that Star Wars: A New Hope was written and released in the 60s and 70s. While A New Hope was the first to use several new filming methods and technologies, the fight scene between Obi-Wan and Darth Vader has sadly been outclassed by newer films. But people now lose sight of that and think that it was just made terrible. Not necessarily true. It was created in a different time, different era. I watched the Original Star Wars Trilogy when I was seven. What the new generation needs to do is put themselves in the shoes of a child in the 70s. This film was unlike ANYTHING they had seen before.
Using him sparingly is key. He's probably only in Rogue One for around 8 minutes too, probably 6 minutes with Krennic and 2 minutes in the hallway scene. Similarly in Fallen Order he's only using for around the same, a couple minutes of dialogue and a couple minutes of running like fuck where you don't see him: just know that he's behind you somewhere.
A friend of mine once said that Darth Vader started out as just a SCARY GUY, the highly competent underling of the big bad, but after the prequels, and especially with the comics, creaters really started pushing the idea of Vader as this dark angel of death that you can't escape all you can do is run and pray and that's how we know him today, it's not exactly that he got scarier as time went on, he just became scary in a different way
Darth Vader defines what TV Tropes calls "The Dragon" He's not the ruler of the empire, we see nothing to suggest he could be, but he is the single scariest bad guy and answers directly to the Big Bad. In many ways Vader is more powerful than Palpatine but hes also in a lot of ways subject to him because he has such a hold on his mind. To say nothing of the fact that he *made* Vader in a very literal sense
I think what helps zero in on Vader being this unstoppable force is that we know how his story ends. We know he is never truly defeated until his end point so everything before that can be filled with the scenarios of him being this Boogeyman.
@@Vote4Drizzt Funny you mention the Dragon. The Dragon is repeatedly used as a metaphor for Anakin Skywalker's soul in the Revenge of the Sith novelization, line edited by George Lucas, written by the masterful Matthew Stover. Here's an excerpt: "You remember the dragon that you brought Vader forth from your heart to slay. You remember the cold venom in Vader's blood. You remember the furnace of Vader's fury, and the black hatred of seizing her throat to silence her lying mouth- And there is one blazing moment in which you finally understand that there was no dragon. That there was no Vader. That there was only you. Only Anakin Skywalker."
I was watching an Twitch buddy of mine play through Fallen Order, and when the breathing came up at the end of the final boss fight, his only comment was, "Oh. So, we lose." I can't think of a more succinct summary of the mystique of Vader.
The thing with Vader, that has been true since the original trilogy, is that he is all about efficiency. He is literally a 'machine man' so he runs his operation like a machine. And when a cog doesn't work (the various officers he kills) he replaces them. Not personal at all very cold and practical. In the grand scheme of things killing one Stormtrooper would be inconsequential.
He's very Lawful Evil. He respects the chain of command and expects the top brass to take responsibility for their decisions. And don't forget when he forgave Admiral Piett at the end of Empire Strikes Back. He recognized that Piett was as competent a subordinate as he was going to get, and it would have served no purpose to kill him, either as an example or as a change of command. It shows a level of restraint and clear thinking that we otherwise might not attribute to this walking spectre of death.
lol barely, saying he's a "man of the people" is a big stretch as more like he takes out admirals more because they are the ones in charge of the troops directly so he puts all the blame on them first and formost.
I remember reading the Charles Soule Darth Vader run (master class storytelling for Vader right there) where Vader and some troopers were on Mustafar. These troopers were cheering for the guy
I feel like Vader being restricted and dismissed by other high ranking military generals just adds to his tragedy. Palpetine promised him the power to do anything but in the end he just ended up in the same place, a lapdog for a corrupt government and restricted by bureaucracy, only seen by a few of his equals for the reputation he ACTUALLY carries. Sure compared to other normal people he’s practically a god but that’s all just Anakin. Anakin’s skill, dedication and power. So people like Tarkin dismissing him is just the same problems on a different day.
I understand why maybe not mentioning the comics wasn't on the agenda (they are even more peripheral than the games) but to me it features one of the single greatest Darth Vader moments I've ever seen. When entirely surrounded by rebel troops that tell him he is surrounded he coldly replies back "All I am surrounded by is fear. And dead men" before annihilating them. It perfectly encapsulates Darth Vader as this powerful unstoppable character. This is from the Vader Down special, but for anyone interested I highly recommend reading the Darth Vader comics as they detail his character very well and do justice to him.
Also from the comics, there is a moment where Darth Maul, defeated in battle, incredulously asks Vader something along the lines of "what could you possibly hate enough to beat me?" - Vader's answer is "Myself." Just such a great moment, it just means SO much and hits so hard.
The comics actually made me put him as my second favorite sith. The unchecked hate and constant pain that Vader carried to fuel his immeasurable power is tragically beautiful.
I also think not enough credit can be given to The Clone Wars for showing the glimpses of Vader in Anakin and how they grow more and more common throughout the war
@@EntelSidious_gamzeylmz it definitely struggled to find its footing at first, though I’d always suggest watching it in chronological order anyway so that doesn’t matter as much
@@EntelSidious_gamzeylmz Everything after the movie is surprisingly decent. There's some skippable arcs and episodes in seasons 1 and 3, but most episodes are still good, and the show picks up in season 2, and 4, and then gets really good. Schaffrillas Productions recently started a series where he was rewatching the clone wars, give it a watch.
The clone wars shows the best version of Anakin (in a literary sense). You even get a glimpse of Vader in the ark with the first force users. Also think it's worth watching the episodes of Star Wars: Rebels where Vader appears (as well as certain other arcs involving characters).
I've been watching the Obi-wan show with my dad and he said something about Vader's depiction in recent media, particularly the ones set between RotS and ANH. He described that interim "Age of the Empire" version of Vader as berserk, almost feral in his ferocity. Because he doesn't have any aims to take the Emperor's place, yet. He's a man who has lost everything that truly matters, given a position of incredible power, whose only real purpose in life is enacting hyper violence. He doesn't have a future beyond his seemingly unending drive to slaughter Jedi. He's humbled somewhat after his failures regarding the Death Star and the revelation of Luke's heritage, and that's when he starts to become the more reserved, scheming and plotting villain we see in the last two films. Suddenly, he has a future, a reason to exist beyond just hunting down Jedi. Suddenly, he's driven by a whole new kind of motivation, and what I think is really cool about that is that both versions of Vader are equally terrifying, for very different reasons. It doesn't matter if he's a near-feral vessel of hyper violence or a cold, calculating pretender to the throne trying to cement a new legacy for his name. Both ideas embody what Darth Vader is, and both are scary as hell.
Shit, seems like YT removes links. Check out 'Re-Entry' (series/10129) for example, or on the smaller side 'there but for the grace of god' (works/27187270)
Time Travel is my favourite for Star Wars fanfiction, there's In The Past by Silverdaye where Luke and Vader time travel to the prequels a few months before Anakin falls to the dark side, it incorporates the Clone Wars series which is a big plus as we get Ahsoka and Ventress appearing as well it's also kinda funny seeing Vader get embarrassed by just talking to Padme
Another great showcase of Vader’s unstoppable potential is his encounters with Kanan and Ezra in Rebels, especially their first fight. In much the same way as Fallen Order, the protagonists have defeated threatening baddies and feel like they are on top of things, but Vader is on another level and they fear him like nothing else.
“If that doesn’t kill him, what will?” Ezra asked, marveling at the immense will of the black warrior to lift an ATST alone. With naught but a hasty glance at that sight, Kanan turns his gawking apprentice around to their ship, their hope of escape, and says only two words. “Not us.”
After "run" Vader deflects two blaster bolts with pinpoint accuracy. Then allows them to escape because not only is he more powerful but is smarter and more experienced than everyone else. And simply tells the trooper that "the rebels will not leave the system"
I believe they eventually retroactively stated that Palpatine intentionally limited Vader to an equal to the Moffs to frustrate him knowing he preferred direct action over deliberation. He knew he hated desk work and decorum and saw to it his day was filled with it to increase his resentment and frustration and give him more to draw from the darkness. Krenick is a regional governor so he has more space to swing his massive balls around.
The story of Anakin really spoke to me when I was growing up because I had a false friend for a long time. The little signs and trust violations leading up to a significant betrayal are well represented by Palpatine's manipulations of Vader. Nothing breeds hate and anger like spited love. Whatever their flaws the Prequels are an amazing example of misplaced loyalty.
It does make sense that he's regarded so differently in the OT. It happened however-many-years after the Sith takeover, so it would follow that his reputation fades and becomes seen as more of an urban legend than anything. Likewise, his swordplay would have changed - both because he's physically aged but also (I prefer) he's become so good with the Force that he doesn't need to be flashy - he just instinctively knows where to put the saber.
18:30 to add to this, Usually we'd think that we'd have a short boss fight with Vader to ward him off then escape, but when I and many others who got to this point heard Vader approaching we were not expecting any retaliation from Cal, we the player, the audience KNEW we had to run, and it was so satisfying to have my expectations met when I got the prompt to escape because they stayed true to the character and his power and purpose within Star Wars.
I always took the officers on the Death Star talking shit as evidence of the same hubris that Tarkin displays. They think they're in charge of the weapon to end all weapons, Motti literally says "the pre-eminent power in the galaxy". I dont have any difficulty with their attitudes because they think theyre hot shit and sitting on the big gun makes them Vaders equal. Hes still scary as fuck but these guys are high on their own farts, which is why Vader checks him and Tarkin, who actually has the rank and respect to back Vader off, has to intervene. Leia's jab works just as well if Vader was never under Tarkin because she was trying to piss both of them off. I dont think you got anything wrong per se, I just got a different read on those scenes
If you go back to that scene and watch how the generals who aren't getting choked react you'll notice that they aren't afraid, disgusted or repulsed by what is happening. They look curious and fascinated by the sight of one of their peers getting choked to death with unseen power. It was new to them. They had perhaps heard of Vader and his sorcerous powers but had never seen them. Perhaps they doubted they were real and when they finally saw them at work they were surprised by it more than anything.
I think the reason they talk shit to Vader is to demonstrate why you shouldn’t talk shit to Vader. You don’t get the reputation of someone people should be very careful around without some people learning why the hard way and others living to tell. This is necessary in the first movie as until then we wouldn’t have known as the audience with Star Wars fresh on screen for the first time what Vader could and would do.
I just want to thank Savage Books for helping me flesh out my characters when I'm writing. You've helped me a great deal when I'm writing my own stories and essays for school. Thank you for being my guide when I felt stuck. 💕✨
Big same! He keeps it insightful enough to be able to sink your teeth into while staying light enough to not feel overwhelming to absorb it effectively especially when listening while multitasking
I love that you brought up the Fallen Order encounter. The game's codex is not just any ordinary lore dump, but a "Tactical Guide" that actually tells you techniques for beating enemies, which makes it more impactful when it says that escape is the only chance of survival. And "force of nature" such an appropriate description, in that Cal had to collapse the tunnel and bring down a few hundred meters of ocean on top of Vader's head just to barely escape.
I think is in Vader Down that he is surrounded by resistance soldiers and they want Vader to surrender or die, and his answer is “I am surrounded by fear and corpses” and it’s fucking beautiful
The Clone Wars show also does a good job of fleshing out Anakin's characterization so his fall to the dark side feels more natural. He seems like an understandably gray character rather than just an edgelord who goes crazy whenever the evil switch gets turned on for the plot.
You must not hear the Verhoeven quote: "War make us fascist of all", Anakin was already corrupted by the ideology of Palpatine by the Attack of the Clones, he preferred a dictatorship to democracy, the war only reinforce those ideals, and when he was put under pressure, with the idea of the past repeating itself, the distrust of the Jedi Council and the Palpatine manipulation, he surely would fall one way or another, because Anakin put trust in people, not ideals, and that trust in the end what make him fall.
Nothing could make me more proud than making my kid brother into the biggest Vader fan when he was about 5 years old. He's almost 15 now, and he still absolutely adores him. That's what I call proper education.
As someone who was a teen when the prequels came out and remembered them being mocked and torn to shreds for being cringey and silly - especially Anakin - it is amazing to see how they’ve been rehabilitated and embraced by fans to the point where videos like this talk about how incredibly captivating and cool prequel Anakin was. I don’t remember anyone saying that in the 2000’s!
People like to clown on the sword play in the original, but its actually the most technically intriguing, with skill being genuine. I think thats an important element for any story imo. Vader seems more like he’s suffering from escalation, the character is being more and more powerful to up the anti, becoming a force of nature with no peak, which means at some point it won’t matter and plateau to meaningless capability that is beyond the rules or roles of their universe.
Having watched the new Dr. Strange movie this past weekend and torturing myself through Dragon Ball Super, I wholeheartedly agree with you. Aside from pastiche shows like the aforementioned One Punch Man, I'm starting to get tired of fictional Gods Among Men and preferring more heroes and villains that have clear limits on their abilities and that have to work around them. Without spoiling Dr. Strange Multiverse of Madness, that movie will have you screaming the whole time, "WHY THE HELL DOESN"T SHE JUST KILL ___ IN TWO SECONDS LIKE SHE DID EVERYONE ELSE? WHY DOESN"T SHE JUST FLY!?!?!?"
Speaking of, I always thought the line "I find your lack of faith disturbing" a little more nuanced than people think in a modern context. It isn't just Vader going "What, you doubt me?", it's Vader having a mirror turned on what he's accomplished, realizing his crusade has been so successful that no one even respects the Force any more. And once Obi-Wan is dead, his whole reason for following the Emperor is sort of gone. Good job dude, the Jedi are dead and literally no one respects the Force any more. You made yourself an endangered species. Is this *really* what you wanted? You already had nothing but anger, now you have nothing but anger towards your own accomplishments. You really did it this time. Luke becomes a real "holy shit, we might be able to keep this alive" kinda project.
Very true about the technical skill aspect. The original blade work was efficient, executing a duel in as few strokes as needed against a fellow master. The newer scenes, like the hallway in Rouge 1, is about feeding on the fear of his victim.
lol no just no. It’s NOT the “most technically intriguing” AT ALL especially from the first obiwan fight he had in a new hope. The reason for why it looked so slow and cumbersome like that is because they didn’t know what a lightsaber duel would look like at all so they were just testing it out at first and every movie since then improves on lightsaber swordplay more and more to the point where they become the fast paced deadly ferocious fights as they should be into the prequel movies. Every Star Wars movie improves on lightsaber skill and combat, that’s a fact and they do it better and better than ever. Any movie nowadays, that has swords and blades in locked combat, that even TRIES to have saber fights that are like the original films will get laughed at because of how slow and cumbersome it looks and everyone knows it but people like you are making excuses for why the first saber duel doesn’t look that good to this day. There’s no point in doing that at all. Seriously. I have NO idea with this nonsense excuse of “with skill being genuine” is coming from because that’s obviously not true to that as ALL lightsaber fights take skill and effort and you can SEE the skill vastly more in later movies than in the original movies, mainly in a new hope. Stop making excuses for it, it’s just outdated and that’s all there is to it. It just sounds like your biased to it and making poor excuses and that’s it.
It's interesting that you emphasize how little Lucas knew about Vader at first with details being fleshed out later since now many people just expect characters entire being will be fully detailed before they even appear on screen
I agree wholeheartedly. I was actually hoping you'd mention the Fallen Order appearance. Happy you did. And I also very much agree with what you've said about other franchises as well. I chuckled when you mentioned GoT's "literary suicide".
AMAZING analysis of Vader, haven't heard discussed the bridge between Anikan and Vader being praised in between films before. I'm glad the best of star wars isn't being fogged up by the worst of it, excited for Kenobi🙌🙌🙌🙌
As much as people rag on the Disney era, we can't deny that Disney always delivers gold with Darth Vader. Rogue One, Rebels, the epilogue in The Clone Wars, the comics by Kieron Gillen, Charles Soule and Greg Pak, Jedi: Fallen Order, Obi-Wan Kenobi. It's just all so good!
Kenobi had my favourite version of Vader who was just pure fear and intimidation while not yet refined as u can see anakin in there while rogue one is Vader as defined and finally formed fear
I absolutely love that you made a video on Vader. I don't care much about the Star Wars franchise, but Vader is magnificently done, and that one scene in Rogue One is pretty much worth the whole movie.
Not to mention, the animated clone wars series did a lot to improve Anakin's character, also showing how his more positive traits would inevitably lead him to the dark side.
Coming here after episode 3 of Obi-Wan Kenobi, Vader definitely doesn't disappoint. The minute he appears the setting essentially transforms into a horror movie, and I loved it.
I like how the comics have worked to bridge the gap and explain continuity. Like with him having trouble with gaining respect early on because he just sort of appeared in the empire as far as the officers were concerned and given more power than he'd seemingly earned, meaning in the first few years he had trouble earning the empires respect and fear
I think that, in addition to all of the great points in this video and in the comments about Vader's treatment by Imperial officers in A New Hope, there is yet another reason. Not only was Vader supposedly spending a lot of his time between Episodes 3 and 4 hunting down Jedi, but in ANH the Empire was still concerned about presenting a good front to the Senate. Therefore, all of Vader's actions that would have earned him a terrifying reputation would have been top secret.
the last two episodes of kenobi help him a lot too. “anakin is gone” is probably the saddest line in star wars and really lets you see that darth vader is not just a big bad villain, but a broken, self-loathing, lonely man
My head canon has always been that the original Obi-Wan vs Vader duel is them just not giving a fuck anymore XD. They know how this is gonna end, but you gotta respect the process enough to at least go through the motions
I think it's kind of interesting how General Grievous is almost the inverse of Darth Vader, he was a zeitgeist-worthy force of destruction and terror in his original appearance in Gendy's clone wars, and then was just kind of slowly whittled down into a less competent villain by his appearances in subsequent fictions and never really made that much cultural impact by the time he was popping up in movies
So basically Darth Vader was originally the General Grievous of the Empire. A cool looking and menacing enforcer and the leader of the imperial Forces. Powerful in his own rights but nothing like today. Interesting concept tbh
An excellent analysis. As for the etymology of Darth Vader, I am near certain that it simply comes from the word invader. This being the same fashion as the name Darth Sidious (insidious). Edit: Also Vader being German for father is just a coincidence as George hadn't even considered the idea of Vader being Luke's father until late in the production of Empire
Yup a lot of sith have names reflecting either their style or simply dark things. 1. Sidious as insidious as you said 2. Vader as invader wich you also pointed out 3. Tyrannus as tyrant 4. Plagueis as the plague 5. Maul as mauling something or simply being a brutal fighter...
I’m positive that Darth Vader’s design was partially inspired by the Grim Reaper. His mask and helmet are reminiscent of a skull and hood and his cape is the cowl that he shrouds himself within darkness. And his presence exudes fear and death.
I thought you were going to make an argument as to why we the viewers should be less psycho about "canon" and why we should allow characters to grow out of old movies that put them in boxes, which would allow new writers to take characters (such as the Sith) in bold new directions. I would have been really keen to hear your views on that. But it was a great video.
Great examination! I think you definitely hit the nail on the head. Vader's post Prequels appearences really do a lot to beef up how strong and intimidating he is, FX wise and whatnot they were a little limited on how the make up of his costume would affect his movements. You're analysis of how the Empire's command staff treat him is very astute. I've always wondered why the staff didn't treat him with more deference, or outright nervousness. It's fascinating that we got to see Vader grow and deepen over the decades, like you say he totally struck a chord with the audience right away, but how powerful and scary he was didn't get unearthed until later. It's also fascinating that the uppitiness of the comand staff to Vader, can be atributed to things that aren't directly shown on screen. I imagine that the command staff don't know about how strong he is with the Force as he doesn't have any need to show it around the staff, but if you're a suspected Force sensative, or rebel goodness help you. As time has gone on with the Empire in place Palpatine has probably had less and less reason to trot Vader out as his bid gun, so the command star are just like, oh that quiet tall masked wierdo that's always hanging out with the Emperor and he has the moniker "Lord" for some reason. Lol! Love your work Savage, always happy to see a vid by you on my notifications! Hayley ^_^
I have to disagree with the premise that Vader has "only improved." I mean he was great in Rogue One but his most iconic appearances remain the original three Star Wars films, especially Empire Strikes Back. And if we want to talk about his character "getting better" as in, by getting elaborated on, I would still say that Revenge of the Sith did more for that than Rogue One. Not that the lava castle wasn't cool.
One thing that brings truth with the character of Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader, is that we can all become him if we were to lose someone dear to us, and are ambitious to want to make the world a better place, only to make it worse for many others who don’t see things your way.
Maybe someone else said it already but 'Vader' isn't German, it's Dutch. On a slight tangent, words that English-speakers sometimes tend to think are unique to German like, indeed, 'Zeitgeist' or 'Schadenfreude' in fact also exist in Dutch ('tijdsgeest' and 'leedvermaak', respectively).
Star wars Battlefront is another game worth mentioning. Really made you feel like you were this walking Sith force of pure destruction and it's weird how the chunkiness of his slow saber swings, relative to other hero characters, just kind of added to the effect. You could really tell the game designers had to nerf his stats simply for balance, but even then, if you knew how to play the role well, you could really dominate the battlefield in a way that felt satisfyingly true to the character.
The officer scene in A New Hope shows more of the arrogance and corruption of the officers. They believe since they are so high in the empire that they are untouchable and Vader’s actions show how they are still barely anything in the empire. The jab about the leash is exactly that.
Yeah but it's also because the jedis and the force were seen as antiquated at that point, only the older officers like Tarkin and Yularen had actual experience and knowledge of what the force could do. The others just heard stuff and didn't believe in it. Until they stopped breathing for a couple of seconds 😂
I loved Kanan and Ezra's first event with Vader. It wasn't ridiculously dramatic but in one very short battle, both of them and Sabine had been brought down not by an overwhelming power but by a coldness, a defeat, that Vader had placed upon them.
I think Rebels does a great job portraying Vader as both roles you mentioned, the dark shadow of evil to Ezra and Kanan but also as the fallen Jedi and a close friend to Ahsoka
Personally, some of my favorite inclusions of Vader were from Star Wars books. Particularly the Prequel Novelizations (which are better than the films in some cases), and various stories involving Anakin, or Vader in some way. The ones I remember the titles for are Rogue Planet, and Ghosts of Tatooine (marginally). Although, Vader learning how to leverage his suit, and cybernetic replacements, how he ended up tweaking and improving both (due to always having been good with tech, and constantly tinkering throughout his early years). I don't remember where I read about that, but it was interesting.
For anyone who needs context: Vader is surrounded by a platoon of rebel soldiers and they order Vader to "lay down your weapons, you are surrounded". Vader's response is this... And he immediately makes good on this threat.
You know I'm not usually inti fan fictio but I really want to see a reimagining of the prequels with Anakin as a side character and we could see his descent from the outside
the sith names comes from insidious and invader with the in removed from the front, so the origin of the names would be dark invader and dark insidious, and then changing them to sound less goofy
for my first introduction to 40K, I immediately knew space marines were not to be fucked with, because they all had vader's faceplate. Not even the entire thing, but just like the mouth part. That was all it took to signal to the uninitiated, exactly what kind of characters these were
i think i actually like that anakin has better feats on screen then Vader. It shows that Vader is basically nothing but a shadow of what anakin could have been
I've always taken it that actually nobody in the Empire military actually knows Darth Vader even exists. Just pne day some dude in a droid suit shows up and starts ordering you around, he has no rank or identity, no orders, and when you ask headquarters their like "Darth Vader....no, naw man, never heard of him, prank caller!" And so always imagined the moffs in the Death Star room still had no idea who this guy in a droid suit was walking around barking orders at people, but Tarkin backs him up on everything so what you gonna do. But then once, like Krenek, you're on the inside and realize who Vader is, you are SCREWED!!
The comics actually showed this, at some point the emperor just assembles his officers and tell them "yeah this is Vader, he wields my power inside the empire so walk straight or die" As for the imperials not knowing who he was you'd be right. Not the moffs in the Death star at that rank they'd all be in the know. To the regular officers and soldiers tho,Vader was most likely a myth or an urban legend. Until he shows up on your star destroyer and sends you down on some mission because he outranks anybody in the entire sector 😂
The best way ive always thought of it, is that vader’s type of scary, grew up alongside us, from a simple big bad guy as children watching the first trilogy for the first time, either in theaters when it came out or as our parents introduced us to him for the first time, and then as all these games and movies have come out in the past 2 or so decades, he has become the force of nature, unstoppable willpower of darkness we see him as now, with that infamous hallway scene, looping us back to his first appearance nearly 50 years ago. (P.S. Savage Books, your videos are amazing i genuinely love to get lost in stories, their concepts, writing ideas, characters, etc. and your channel has always been one of my favorite places to go to get the thinker stirred and come up with great little stories ideas and my own concepts.)
There has been a lot of things Disney has done wrong with star wars. But never, EVER have they wasted Vader. Every narrative he is inserted into has one of 2 angles and they work. Either a. Anakin and the tragedy of his life (see Ashoka or Obiwan) or b. Vader as a force of nature, a killer on par with a slasher monster (see rouge one or fallen order) both are impactful and both work well for the stories they were used in. Vader is a tragedy and he is also the monster in the dark and it's amazing.
It's great that the new comics and Kenobi/hallway scene/Rebels etc have really doubled down on badass Vader now we have Episode 5 of Kenobi which is just peak Vader to me on screen
Some of the declarations in this video were weird... saying few villains pass the silhouette test when we have Ursula and Scar, or even classically Dracula and Adam (Frankenstein's Monster), or elsewhere like Daleks or Sephiroth~ Also, everyone knows what the Snap is... but I chalk that up to all the memes that Thanos was just bring us back to the 1970's population. Infinite power to bring modern consumption back to the population of 50 years ago xD
I like how you say Vader outgrew his own series. I've seen bits and pieces of Star Wars movies but I never really cared about it. Vader though is a legend for me. I've watched quite a few videos analyzing him and how well he was written. Spoilers for the Ahsoka show: The fact that they got Hayden Christensen to come back to be Anakin's......force ghost I think, was an awesome move. I saw a clip a while back and seeing him walk out of the fog, showing flashes of him as Vader during the lightning strikes, was epic.
When I read the old Captain America comics by Stan Lee (or anyone really before Ed Brubaker) I can feel the zeitgeist of that period. The thrill of comics
One of the key building blocks for me (not specifically touched on here) and probably many others was in the arcade. The Star Wars arcade game where you spend the vast majority of your time in a cockpit of some kind, has an incredibly tough Vader fight where if you fail, you will have Vader standing over you as he mocks you with “Indeed you are powerful in the force… But you are not a Jedi yet!”
fallen order and the rebels ahsoka duel was probably the first instances i noticed of darth vader's growth. how at first he was a big dude but then morphed into a literal force (heh) of nature, with no hope of stopping. the way he's introduced just as "it's him." as he emerged from a veil of smoke is a level of mythic prescence that can only be rivaled by one scene early into batman: arkham origins where batman slowly walks up to a goon dismissing his existence as batman's shadow looms over him like some sort of harbinger of fear, or as stated for vader, a boogeyman.
Are you going to make a Better Call Saul video soon, or wait until the full season comes out? There were definitely some really great moments so far this season that I'd love to hear your thoughts on, like the ending cliffhanger and the "You think we're wicked?" line.
As a german i especially love, that you used the german Version of hux's speech. Actually i think the english voice is way more fitting for the fascist theme, but... You know 😅
Usually when a game throws you an unbeatable boss that just one-hits you into Jesus-land, people will rage-quit and hate the company behind the game. With fallen Order, as soon as I heard that breathing, my reaction was "Well, I'm fucked". No rage-quitting, no hate. Just an understanding of how Darth Vader is by definition the one that ends stuff. And I never felt so excited about a scripted escape-prompt.
The first 1,000 people to use the link will get a 1 month free trial of Skillshare: skl.sh/savagebooks05221
I was REALLY hoping you were going to add the scene from rebels where Vader literally uses the force to raise a BUILDING off of himself!!!
Savage Books I agree with what you said about The Legend Of Korra not being as good as The Last Airbender, in fact I don't think any of the shows that have tried to imitate Last Airbender's success like Voltron: LD or She-Ra: POP are better than The Last Airbender or even The Legend Of Korra, the only show I can think of that even reaches that level is The Dragon Prince
video idea what makes a movie real vs dark ( storytelling )
*"Avatar is the highest grossing movie in the world, but it left ZERO impact onto modern culture."*
Who the hell are you lying at?
*"[Marvel Cinematic Universe] has made dozens of movies, but only two has left an impact on culture, Infinity War and Endgame"* .
Because Iron Man, The Avengers, Captain America: The Winter Soldier, Guardians of The Galaxy and most peculiarly Black Panther of them all meant nothing... and I am saying this as a man who can't stand most Disney owned franchises in general.
Before I get completely off topic from your video, wonderful vid, and I love the amount of detail you put into it!
Can people please realize that Star Wars: A New Hope was written and released in the 60s and 70s. While A New Hope was the first to use several new filming methods and technologies, the fight scene between Obi-Wan and Darth Vader has sadly been outclassed by newer films. But people now lose sight of that and think that it was just made terrible. Not necessarily true. It was created in a different time, different era. I watched the Original Star Wars Trilogy when I was seven. What the new generation needs to do is put themselves in the shoes of a child in the 70s. This film was unlike ANYTHING they had seen before.
Darth Vader was on screen for only 8 minutes in A New Hope....Now THAT is presence!
Like godzilla 2014.
@@ThaneCrosoft lol
Using him sparingly is key. He's probably only in Rogue One for around 8 minutes too, probably 6 minutes with Krennic and 2 minutes in the hallway scene. Similarly in Fallen Order he's only using for around the same, a couple minutes of dialogue and a couple minutes of running like fuck where you don't see him: just know that he's behind you somewhere.
@@Yvaelle Less is more
Yeah, but while Vader was a memorable character in the first film, it wasn’t until the sequel where he became THE movie villain.
A friend of mine once said that Darth Vader started out as just a SCARY GUY, the highly competent underling of the big bad, but after the prequels, and especially with the comics, creaters really started pushing the idea of Vader as this dark angel of death that you can't escape all you can do is run and pray and that's how we know him today, it's not exactly that he got scarier as time went on, he just became scary in a different way
Darth Vader defines what TV Tropes calls "The Dragon"
He's not the ruler of the empire, we see nothing to suggest he could be, but he is the single scariest bad guy and answers directly to the Big Bad. In many ways Vader is more powerful than Palpatine but hes also in a lot of ways subject to him because he has such a hold on his mind.
To say nothing of the fact that he *made* Vader in a very literal sense
I think what helps zero in on Vader being this unstoppable force is that we know how his story ends. We know he is never truly defeated until his end point so everything before that can be filled with the scenarios of him being this Boogeyman.
@@Vote4Drizzt Funny you mention the Dragon. The Dragon is repeatedly used as a metaphor for Anakin Skywalker's soul in the Revenge of the Sith novelization, line edited by George Lucas, written by the masterful Matthew Stover. Here's an excerpt:
"You remember the dragon that you brought Vader forth from your heart to slay. You remember the cold venom in Vader's blood. You remember the furnace of Vader's fury, and the black hatred of seizing her throat to silence her lying mouth-
And there is one blazing moment in which you finally understand that there was no dragon. That there was no Vader. That there was only you. Only Anakin Skywalker."
Fear only last until you are ready to stand up to it.
But what if it can’t be stopped?
What if fear is the only thing keeping you alive?
So Darth Vader is space Jason.
I was watching an Twitch buddy of mine play through Fallen Order, and when the breathing came up at the end of the final boss fight, his only comment was, "Oh. So, we lose." I can't think of a more succinct summary of the mystique of Vader.
Lmfaooooo perfect
Small details but I’ve notice Vader RARELY (I said rarely) killed stormtroopers. Always the Admirals. He’s a man of the people
Darth Vader is the boss that acknowledges your job is hard and talks shit about the other bosses.
The thing with Vader, that has been true since the original trilogy, is that he is all about efficiency. He is literally a 'machine man' so he runs his operation like a machine. And when a cog doesn't work (the various officers he kills) he replaces them. Not personal at all very cold and practical. In the grand scheme of things killing one Stormtrooper would be inconsequential.
He's very Lawful Evil. He respects the chain of command and expects the top brass to take responsibility for their decisions. And don't forget when he forgave Admiral Piett at the end of Empire Strikes Back. He recognized that Piett was as competent a subordinate as he was going to get, and it would have served no purpose to kill him, either as an example or as a change of command. It shows a level of restraint and clear thinking that we otherwise might not attribute to this walking spectre of death.
lol barely, saying he's a "man of the people" is a big stretch as more like he takes out admirals more because they are the ones in charge of the troops directly so he puts all the blame on them first and formost.
I remember reading the Charles Soule Darth Vader run (master class storytelling for Vader right there) where Vader and some troopers were on Mustafar. These troopers were cheering for the guy
I feel like Vader being restricted and dismissed by other high ranking military generals just adds to his tragedy. Palpetine promised him the power to do anything but in the end he just ended up in the same place, a lapdog for a corrupt government and restricted by bureaucracy, only seen by a few of his equals for the reputation he ACTUALLY carries. Sure compared to other normal people he’s practically a god but that’s all just Anakin. Anakin’s skill, dedication and power. So people like Tarkin dismissing him is just the same problems on a different day.
I understand why maybe not mentioning the comics wasn't on the agenda (they are even more peripheral than the games) but to me it features one of the single greatest Darth Vader moments I've ever seen. When entirely surrounded by rebel troops that tell him he is surrounded he coldly replies back "All I am surrounded by is fear. And dead men" before annihilating them. It perfectly encapsulates Darth Vader as this powerful unstoppable character. This is from the Vader Down special, but for anyone interested I highly recommend reading the Darth Vader comics as they detail his character very well and do justice to him.
Love that line.
Also from the comics, there is a moment where Darth Maul, defeated in battle, incredulously asks Vader something along the lines of "what could you possibly hate enough to beat me?" - Vader's answer is "Myself." Just such a great moment, it just means SO much and hits so hard.
The comics actually made me put him as my second favorite sith. The unchecked hate and constant pain that Vader carried to fuel his immeasurable power is tragically beautiful.
@@LAK_770 Vader turning on the lightsaber so it goes through him and then kills Maul was great.
Dark Horse had some of the best EU content.
He's one of the best force of nature characters ever
I also think not enough credit can be given to The Clone Wars for showing the glimpses of Vader in Anakin and how they grow more and more common throughout the war
The transition from one to the other benefits immensely from long-term storytelling.
clone wars has everything good about star wars and more (yeah first few seasons are pretty bad though)
@@EntelSidious_gamzeylmz it definitely struggled to find its footing at first, though I’d always suggest watching it in chronological order anyway so that doesn’t matter as much
@@EntelSidious_gamzeylmz Everything after the movie is surprisingly decent. There's some skippable arcs and episodes in seasons 1 and 3, but most episodes are still good, and the show picks up in season 2, and 4, and then gets really good. Schaffrillas Productions recently started a series where he was rewatching the clone wars, give it a watch.
The clone wars shows the best version of Anakin (in a literary sense). You even get a glimpse of Vader in the ark with the first force users.
Also think it's worth watching the episodes of Star Wars: Rebels where Vader appears (as well as certain other arcs involving characters).
I've been watching the Obi-wan show with my dad and he said something about Vader's depiction in recent media, particularly the ones set between RotS and ANH. He described that interim "Age of the Empire" version of Vader as berserk, almost feral in his ferocity. Because he doesn't have any aims to take the Emperor's place, yet. He's a man who has lost everything that truly matters, given a position of incredible power, whose only real purpose in life is enacting hyper violence. He doesn't have a future beyond his seemingly unending drive to slaughter Jedi. He's humbled somewhat after his failures regarding the Death Star and the revelation of Luke's heritage, and that's when he starts to become the more reserved, scheming and plotting villain we see in the last two films. Suddenly, he has a future, a reason to exist beyond just hunting down Jedi. Suddenly, he's driven by a whole new kind of motivation, and what I think is really cool about that is that both versions of Vader are equally terrifying, for very different reasons. It doesn't matter if he's a near-feral vessel of hyper violence or a cold, calculating pretender to the throne trying to cement a new legacy for his name. Both ideas embody what Darth Vader is, and both are scary as hell.
Well said!
Here here!
Amazing point
Star Wars Prequels fanfictions are some of the most heart-wrenching fiction I've read, and Darth Vader is a necessary piece for these stories to work.
Which fan fictions?
Lmao, don't leave us hanging, give us names
Titles please!
Shit, seems like YT removes links. Check out 'Re-Entry' (series/10129) for example, or on the smaller side 'there but for the grace of god' (works/27187270)
Time Travel is my favourite for Star Wars fanfiction, there's In The Past by Silverdaye where Luke and Vader time travel to the prequels a few months before Anakin falls to the dark side, it incorporates the Clone Wars series which is a big plus as we get Ahsoka and Ventress appearing as well it's also kinda funny seeing Vader get embarrassed by just talking to Padme
Another great showcase of Vader’s unstoppable potential is his encounters with Kanan and Ezra in Rebels, especially their first fight. In much the same way as Fallen Order, the protagonists have defeated threatening baddies and feel like they are on top of things, but Vader is on another level and they fear him like nothing else.
When he caught the ATST I fucking lost it, honestly one of my favorite Vader moments
“If that doesn’t kill him, what will?” Ezra asked, marveling at the immense will of the black warrior to lift an ATST alone. With naught but a hasty glance at that sight, Kanan turns his gawking apprentice around to their ship, their hope of escape, and says only two words.
“Not us.”
@@protatype7487quickly followed by "run"
After "run" Vader deflects two blaster bolts with pinpoint accuracy. Then allows them to escape because not only is he more powerful but is smarter and more experienced than everyone else. And simply tells the trooper that "the rebels will not leave the system"
I believe they eventually retroactively stated that Palpatine intentionally limited Vader to an equal to the Moffs to frustrate him knowing he preferred direct action over deliberation. He knew he hated desk work and decorum and saw to it his day was filled with it to increase his resentment and frustration and give him more to draw from the darkness.
Krenick is a regional governor so he has more space to swing his massive balls around.
Hm.
The story of Anakin really spoke to me when I was growing up because I had a false friend for a long time. The little signs and trust violations leading up to a significant betrayal are well represented by Palpatine's manipulations of Vader. Nothing breeds hate and anger like spited love. Whatever their flaws the Prequels are an amazing example of misplaced loyalty.
sure hope you didn't chop any children
"Lucky for you, I have TWO degrees in psychology and edit novels as a day job"
Heck yeah, we love a qualified essayist!
It does make sense that he's regarded so differently in the OT. It happened however-many-years after the Sith takeover, so it would follow that his reputation fades and becomes seen as more of an urban legend than anything. Likewise, his swordplay would have changed - both because he's physically aged but also (I prefer) he's become so good with the Force that he doesn't need to be flashy - he just instinctively knows where to put the saber.
“All I’m surrounded by is fear and dead men” -Darth Vader
That scene was awesome
18:30 to add to this, Usually we'd think that we'd have a short boss fight with Vader to ward him off then escape, but when I and many others who got to this point heard Vader approaching we were not expecting any retaliation from Cal, we the player, the audience KNEW we had to run, and it was so satisfying to have my expectations met when I got the prompt to escape because they stayed true to the character and his power and purpose within Star Wars.
I always took the officers on the Death Star talking shit as evidence of the same hubris that Tarkin displays. They think they're in charge of the weapon to end all weapons, Motti literally says "the pre-eminent power in the galaxy".
I dont have any difficulty with their attitudes because they think theyre hot shit and sitting on the big gun makes them Vaders equal.
Hes still scary as fuck but these guys are high on their own farts, which is why Vader checks him and Tarkin, who actually has the rank and respect to back Vader off, has to intervene.
Leia's jab works just as well if Vader was never under Tarkin because she was trying to piss both of them off.
I dont think you got anything wrong per se, I just got a different read on those scenes
If you go back to that scene and watch how the generals who aren't getting choked react you'll notice that they aren't afraid, disgusted or repulsed by what is happening. They look curious and fascinated by the sight of one of their peers getting choked to death with unseen power. It was new to them. They had perhaps heard of Vader and his sorcerous powers but had never seen them. Perhaps they doubted they were real and when they finally saw them at work they were surprised by it more than anything.
as one old master would say: "(...) many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view."
I think the reason they talk shit to Vader is to demonstrate why you shouldn’t talk shit to Vader. You don’t get the reputation of someone people should be very careful around without some people learning why the hard way and others living to tell. This is necessary in the first movie as until then we wouldn’t have known as the audience with Star Wars fresh on screen for the first time what Vader could and would do.
Hm.
Fairly Plain: Anakin Skywalker is the Villain's Journey incarnate, and thus timeless.
Yup, tragic, flawed, fallen hero
I just want to thank Savage Books for helping me flesh out my characters when I'm writing. You've helped me a great deal when I'm writing my own stories and essays for school. Thank you for being my guide when I felt stuck. 💕✨
Big same! He keeps it insightful enough to be able to sink your teeth into while staying light enough to not feel overwhelming to absorb it effectively especially when listening while multitasking
Except when he said Anakin was “inarguably cool” -I had to stop and take a minute to process that one lol
I love that you brought up the Fallen Order encounter. The game's codex is not just any ordinary lore dump, but a "Tactical Guide" that actually tells you techniques for beating enemies, which makes it more impactful when it says that escape is the only chance of survival.
And "force of nature" such an appropriate description, in that Cal had to collapse the tunnel and bring down a few hundred meters of ocean on top of Vader's head just to barely escape.
I think is in Vader Down that he is surrounded by resistance soldiers and they want Vader to surrender or die, and his answer is “I am surrounded by fear and corpses” and it’s fucking beautiful
I would argue that the literary suicide of GOT is in the zeitgeist
More as a cautionary tale, but yeah, pretty much.
@@inquisitorbenediktanders3142 Have you ever heard the Tragedy of Game of Thrones? It's not a story the Jedi will tell you.
The Clone Wars show also does a good job of fleshing out Anakin's characterization so his fall to the dark side feels more natural.
He seems like an understandably gray character rather than just an edgelord who goes crazy whenever the evil switch gets turned on for the plot.
You must not hear the Verhoeven quote: "War make us fascist of all", Anakin was already corrupted by the ideology of Palpatine by the Attack of the Clones, he preferred a dictatorship to democracy, the war only reinforce those ideals, and when he was put under pressure, with the idea of the past repeating itself, the distrust of the Jedi Council and the Palpatine manipulation, he surely would fall one way or another, because Anakin put trust in people, not ideals, and that trust in the end what make him fall.
Nothing could make me more proud than making my kid brother into the biggest Vader fan when he was about 5 years old. He's almost 15 now, and he still absolutely adores him. That's what I call proper education.
"Surrender you're surrounded"
"I am only surrounded by fear and dead men"
As someone who was a teen when the prequels came out and remembered them being mocked and torn to shreds for being cringey and silly - especially Anakin - it is amazing to see how they’ve been rehabilitated and embraced by fans to the point where videos like this talk about how incredibly captivating and cool prequel Anakin was. I don’t remember anyone saying that in the 2000’s!
People like to clown on the sword play in the original, but its actually the most technically intriguing, with skill being genuine. I think thats an important element for any story imo. Vader seems more like he’s suffering from escalation, the character is being more and more powerful to up the anti, becoming a force of nature with no peak, which means at some point it won’t matter and plateau to meaningless capability that is beyond the rules or roles of their universe.
TIL that Vader is slowly becoming Saitama.
Having watched the new Dr. Strange movie this past weekend and torturing myself through Dragon Ball Super, I wholeheartedly agree with you. Aside from pastiche shows like the aforementioned One Punch Man, I'm starting to get tired of fictional Gods Among Men and preferring more heroes and villains that have clear limits on their abilities and that have to work around them. Without spoiling Dr. Strange Multiverse of Madness, that movie will have you screaming the whole time, "WHY THE HELL DOESN"T SHE JUST KILL ___ IN TWO SECONDS LIKE SHE DID EVERYONE ELSE? WHY DOESN"T SHE JUST FLY!?!?!?"
Speaking of, I always thought the line "I find your lack of faith disturbing" a little more nuanced than people think in a modern context. It isn't just Vader going "What, you doubt me?", it's Vader having a mirror turned on what he's accomplished, realizing his crusade has been so successful that no one even respects the Force any more. And once Obi-Wan is dead, his whole reason for following the Emperor is sort of gone. Good job dude, the Jedi are dead and literally no one respects the Force any more. You made yourself an endangered species. Is this *really* what you wanted? You already had nothing but anger, now you have nothing but anger towards your own accomplishments. You really did it this time. Luke becomes a real "holy shit, we might be able to keep this alive" kinda project.
Very true about the technical skill aspect. The original blade work was efficient, executing a duel in as few strokes as needed against a fellow master. The newer scenes, like the hallway in Rouge 1, is about feeding on the fear of his victim.
lol no just no. It’s NOT the “most technically intriguing” AT ALL especially from the first obiwan fight he had in a new hope. The reason for why it looked so slow and cumbersome like that is because they didn’t know what a lightsaber duel would look like at all so they were just testing it out at first and every movie since then improves on lightsaber swordplay more and more to the point where they become the fast paced deadly ferocious fights as they should be into the prequel movies. Every Star Wars movie improves on lightsaber skill and combat, that’s a fact and they do it better and better than ever. Any movie nowadays, that has swords and blades in locked combat, that even TRIES to have saber fights that are like the original films will get laughed at because of how slow and cumbersome it looks and everyone knows it but people like you are making excuses for why the first saber duel doesn’t look that good to this day. There’s no point in doing that at all. Seriously.
I have NO idea with this nonsense excuse of “with skill being genuine” is coming from because that’s obviously not true to that as ALL lightsaber fights take skill and effort and you can SEE the skill vastly more in later movies than in the original movies, mainly in a new hope.
Stop making excuses for it, it’s just outdated and that’s all there is to it.
It just sounds like your biased to it and making poor excuses and that’s it.
It's interesting that you emphasize how little Lucas knew about Vader at first with details being fleshed out later since now many people just expect characters entire being will be fully detailed before they even appear on screen
I love the prequel trilogy. The grandness was drew me into Star Wars, slowly but surely.
I agree wholeheartedly. I was actually hoping you'd mention the Fallen Order appearance. Happy you did. And I also very much agree with what you've said about other franchises as well. I chuckled when you mentioned GoT's "literary suicide".
This is an incredible video showing the ups and downs on cultural zeitgeist. Also the background music version of the Star Wars music was creative.
AMAZING analysis of Vader, haven't heard discussed the bridge between Anikan and Vader being praised in between films before. I'm glad the best of star wars isn't being fogged up by the worst of it, excited for Kenobi🙌🙌🙌🙌
Gotta love Darth Vader. He’s just got so much personality and threatening presence whenever he’s on screen
As much as people rag on the Disney era, we can't deny that Disney always delivers gold with Darth Vader. Rogue One, Rebels, the epilogue in The Clone Wars, the comics by Kieron Gillen, Charles Soule and Greg Pak, Jedi: Fallen Order, Obi-Wan Kenobi. It's just all so good!
Forget knowing the outline. You can identify Vader by the breathing without any need for visuals.
Kenobi had my favourite version of Vader who was just pure fear and intimidation while not yet refined as u can see anakin in there while rogue one is Vader as defined and finally formed fear
I absolutely love that you made a video on Vader. I don't care much about the Star Wars franchise, but Vader is magnificently done, and that one scene in Rogue One is pretty much worth the whole movie.
Not to mention, the animated clone wars series did a lot to improve Anakin's character, also showing how his more positive traits would inevitably lead him to the dark side.
Coming here after episode 3 of Obi-Wan Kenobi, Vader definitely doesn't disappoint. The minute he appears the setting essentially transforms into a horror movie, and I loved it.
That whole episode was amazing and awesome! loved episode 3 as that show keeps getting better and better.
I like how the comics have worked to bridge the gap and explain continuity. Like with him having trouble with gaining respect early on because he just sort of appeared in the empire as far as the officers were concerned and given more power than he'd seemingly earned, meaning in the first few years he had trouble earning the empires respect and fear
To add a bit, Vader is fleshed out even more in the Novels (both canon and non-canon EU), but to an extent I feel books do that to every character.
Do you have any examples?
A Darth Vader analysis is always cool.
I think that, in addition to all of the great points in this video and in the comments about Vader's treatment by Imperial officers in A New Hope, there is yet another reason. Not only was Vader supposedly spending a lot of his time between Episodes 3 and 4 hunting down Jedi, but in ANH the Empire was still concerned about presenting a good front to the Senate. Therefore, all of Vader's actions that would have earned him a terrifying reputation would have been top secret.
the last two episodes of kenobi help him a lot too. “anakin is gone” is probably the saddest line in star wars and really lets you see that darth vader is not just a big bad villain, but a broken, self-loathing, lonely man
Andrew Stanton(the director of Finding Nemo and Finding Dory) wrote the last two episodes of Obi Wan Kenobi and it really shows
My head canon has always been that the original Obi-Wan vs Vader duel is them just not giving a fuck anymore XD. They know how this is gonna end, but you gotta respect the process enough to at least go through the motions
It’s just Ben buying time.
He’s not trying to win
"All I am surrounded by is fear.. and dead men!"
Still one of the most badass lines to ever been written
I think it's kind of interesting how General Grievous is almost the inverse of Darth Vader, he was a zeitgeist-worthy force of destruction and terror in his original appearance in Gendy's clone wars, and then was just kind of slowly whittled down into a less competent villain by his appearances in subsequent fictions and never really made that much cultural impact by the time he was popping up in movies
So basically Darth Vader was originally the General Grievous of the Empire. A cool looking and menacing enforcer and the leader of the imperial Forces. Powerful in his own rights but nothing like today. Interesting concept tbh
An excellent analysis. As for the etymology of Darth Vader, I am near certain that it simply comes from the word invader. This being the same fashion as the name Darth Sidious (insidious). Edit: Also Vader being German for father is just a coincidence as George hadn't even considered the idea of Vader being Luke's father until late in the production of Empire
It means father in some European language, can't remember which.
@@iainoftheizzetleague9850yeah german
Yup a lot of sith have names reflecting either their style or simply dark things.
1. Sidious as insidious as you said
2. Vader as invader wich you also pointed out
3. Tyrannus as tyrant
4. Plagueis as the plague
5. Maul as mauling something or simply being a brutal fighter...
I’m positive that Darth Vader’s design was partially inspired by the Grim Reaper. His mask and helmet are reminiscent of a skull and hood and his cape is the cowl that he shrouds himself within darkness. And his presence exudes fear and death.
That and the mythical dark knight representation yeah
I thought you were going to make an argument as to why we the viewers should be less psycho about "canon" and why we should allow characters to grow out of old movies that put them in boxes, which would allow new writers to take characters (such as the Sith) in bold new directions. I would have been really keen to hear your views on that.
But it was a great video.
Great examination! I think you definitely hit the nail on the head. Vader's post Prequels appearences really do a lot to beef up how strong and intimidating he is, FX wise and whatnot they were a little limited on how the make up of his costume would affect his movements.
You're analysis of how the Empire's command staff treat him is very astute. I've always wondered why the staff didn't treat him with more deference, or outright nervousness. It's fascinating that we got to see Vader grow and deepen over the decades, like you say he totally struck a chord with the audience right away, but how powerful and scary he was didn't get unearthed until later.
It's also fascinating that the uppitiness of the comand staff to Vader, can be atributed to things that aren't directly shown on screen. I imagine that the command staff don't know about how strong he is with the Force as he doesn't have any need to show it around the staff, but if you're a suspected Force sensative, or rebel goodness help you. As time has gone on with the Empire in place Palpatine has probably had less and less reason to trot Vader out as his bid gun, so the command star are just like, oh that quiet tall masked wierdo that's always hanging out with the Emperor and he has the moniker "Lord" for some reason. Lol!
Love your work Savage, always happy to see a vid by you on my notifications!
Hayley ^_^
Thanks Hayley! Happy to have you around 😊
I have to disagree with the premise that Vader has "only improved." I mean he was great in Rogue One but his most iconic appearances remain the original three Star Wars films, especially Empire Strikes Back.
And if we want to talk about his character "getting better" as in, by getting elaborated on, I would still say that Revenge of the Sith did more for that than Rogue One. Not that the lava castle wasn't cool.
One thing that brings truth with the character of
Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader, is that we can all become him if we were to lose someone dear to us, and are ambitious to want to make the world a better place, only to make it worse for many others who don’t see things your way.
Maybe someone else said it already but 'Vader' isn't German, it's Dutch. On a slight tangent, words that English-speakers sometimes tend to think are unique to German like, indeed, 'Zeitgeist' or 'Schadenfreude' in fact also exist in Dutch ('tijdsgeest' and 'leedvermaak', respectively).
Darth Vader's recent appearance in the Obi Wan Kenobi series further proves your point about Vader becoming even more fully realised in the Zeitgeist
Rebel Soldier: Lay down your weapons, you're surrounded!
Darth Vader: All I am surrounded by is fear... and dead men.
Star wars Battlefront is another game worth mentioning. Really made you feel like you were this walking Sith force of pure destruction and it's weird how the chunkiness of his slow saber swings, relative to other hero characters, just kind of added to the effect. You could really tell the game designers had to nerf his stats simply for balance, but even then, if you knew how to play the role well, you could really dominate the battlefield in a way that felt satisfyingly true to the character.
Vader was my go to hero in Battlefront II. Just an absolute monster, if you really know his move set he was an unstoppable force
The officer scene in A New Hope shows more of the arrogance and corruption of the officers. They believe since they are so high in the empire that they are untouchable and Vader’s actions show how they are still barely anything in the empire. The jab about the leash is exactly that.
Yeah but it's also because the jedis and the force were seen as antiquated at that point, only the older officers like Tarkin and Yularen had actual experience and knowledge of what the force could do. The others just heard stuff and didn't believe in it. Until they stopped breathing for a couple of seconds 😂
I loved Kanan and Ezra's first event with Vader.
It wasn't ridiculously dramatic but in one very short battle, both of them and Sabine had been brought down not by an overwhelming power but by a coldness, a defeat, that Vader had placed upon them.
I think Rebels does a great job portraying Vader as both roles you mentioned, the dark shadow of evil to Ezra and Kanan but also as the fallen Jedi and a close friend to Ahsoka
No joke, but watching Vader in Empire legit gave me nightmares as a kid 😨
Personally, some of my favorite inclusions of Vader were from Star Wars books. Particularly the Prequel Novelizations (which are better than the films in some cases), and various stories involving Anakin, or Vader in some way. The ones I remember the titles for are Rogue Planet, and Ghosts of Tatooine (marginally). Although, Vader learning how to leverage his suit, and cybernetic replacements, how he ended up tweaking and improving both (due to always having been good with tech, and constantly tinkering throughout his early years). I don't remember where I read about that, but it was interesting.
This was a great analysis to come back to after watching the entire obiwan series.
For me, the Zeitgeist of Vader comes from another moment:
"All I'm surrounded by is fear. And dead men."
For anyone who needs context:
Vader is surrounded by a platoon of rebel soldiers and they order Vader to "lay down your weapons, you are surrounded". Vader's response is this...
And he immediately makes good on this threat.
You know I'm not usually inti fan fictio but I really want to see a reimagining of the prequels with Anakin as a side character and we could see his descent from the outside
the sith names comes from insidious and invader with the in removed from the front, so the origin of the names would be dark invader and dark insidious, and then changing them to sound less goofy
for my first introduction to 40K, I immediately knew space marines were not to be fucked with, because they all had vader's faceplate. Not even the entire thing, but just like the mouth part. That was all it took to signal to the uninitiated, exactly what kind of characters these were
These character analysis videos are fantastic! Definitely keep doing them!
i think i actually like that anakin has better feats on screen then Vader. It shows that Vader is basically nothing but a shadow of what anakin could have been
I've always taken it that actually nobody in the Empire military actually knows Darth Vader even exists. Just pne day some dude in a droid suit shows up and starts ordering you around, he has no rank or identity, no orders, and when you ask headquarters their like "Darth Vader....no, naw man, never heard of him, prank caller!" And so always imagined the moffs in the Death Star room still had no idea who this guy in a droid suit was walking around barking orders at people, but Tarkin backs him up on everything so what you gonna do. But then once, like Krenek, you're on the inside and realize who Vader is, you are SCREWED!!
The comics actually showed this, at some point the emperor just assembles his officers and tell them "yeah this is Vader, he wields my power inside the empire so walk straight or die"
As for the imperials not knowing who he was you'd be right. Not the moffs in the Death star at that rank they'd all be in the know. To the regular officers and soldiers tho,Vader was most likely a myth or an urban legend. Until he shows up on your star destroyer and sends you down on some mission because he outranks anybody in the entire sector 😂
And that's without getting into all the gems the comics have gave us
18:23 Everybody gangsta until Vader shows up without a health bar 😂
The best way ive always thought of it, is that vader’s type of scary, grew up alongside us, from a simple big bad guy as children watching the first trilogy for the first time, either in theaters when it came out or as our parents introduced us to him for the first time, and then as all these games and movies have come out in the past 2 or so decades, he has become the force of nature, unstoppable willpower of darkness we see him as now, with that infamous hallway scene, looping us back to his first appearance nearly 50 years ago.
(P.S. Savage Books, your videos are amazing i genuinely love to get lost in stories, their concepts, writing ideas, characters, etc. and your channel has always been one of my favorite places to go to get the thinker stirred and come up with great little stories ideas and my own concepts.)
Vader’s scene at the end of Rogue One makes watching that movie worth it every time.
There has been a lot of things Disney has done wrong with star wars. But never, EVER have they wasted Vader. Every narrative he is inserted into has one of 2 angles and they work. Either a. Anakin and the tragedy of his life (see Ashoka or Obiwan) or b. Vader as a force of nature, a killer on par with a slasher monster (see rouge one or fallen order) both are impactful and both work well for the stories they were used in. Vader is a tragedy and he is also the monster in the dark and it's amazing.
It's great that the new comics and Kenobi/hallway scene/Rebels etc have really doubled down on badass Vader
now we have Episode 5 of Kenobi which is just peak Vader to me on screen
Some of the declarations in this video were weird... saying few villains pass the silhouette test when we have Ursula and Scar, or even classically Dracula and Adam (Frankenstein's Monster), or elsewhere like Daleks or Sephiroth~
Also, everyone knows what the Snap is... but I chalk that up to all the memes that Thanos was just bring us back to the 1970's population. Infinite power to bring modern consumption back to the population of 50 years ago xD
I like how you say Vader outgrew his own series. I've seen bits and pieces of Star Wars movies but I never really cared about it. Vader though is a legend for me. I've watched quite a few videos analyzing him and how well he was written.
Spoilers for the Ahsoka show:
The fact that they got Hayden Christensen to come back to be Anakin's......force ghost I think, was an awesome move. I saw a clip a while back and seeing him walk out of the fog, showing flashes of him as Vader during the lightning strikes, was epic.
RIP James Earl Jones, for voicing one of the greatest characters ever! 🙏🏻❤️✝️
Comics and books show off his power even more
The Vader is Anakin twist is the Rose Quartz is Pink Diamond twist of its time
That's a terrible analogy lmao
Vader is the charater you can bring out to completly stomp a character that has power crept the entire metagame. and its beautiful.
"I am surrounded by nothing but fear and dead men."
When I read the old Captain America comics by Stan Lee (or anyone really before Ed Brubaker) I can feel the zeitgeist of that period. The thrill of comics
Dude, I love you. Your insight is wonderful and I'm always so happy when you post. thank you for sharing your thoughts with us. They always uplift me.
I can't help but feel this nailed that prediction at the end
One of the key building blocks for me (not specifically touched on here) and probably many others was in the arcade. The Star Wars arcade game where you spend the vast majority of your time in a cockpit of some kind, has an incredibly tough Vader fight where if you fail, you will have Vader standing over you as he mocks you with “Indeed you are powerful in the force… But you are not a Jedi yet!”
Was so excited to see if you would make this point about Fallen Order. Heck yes.
Oh...oh how you were correct about there probably being some great Vader points in the Kenobi series. So very much to dig into with that finale...
I just want to say that I really appreciate your work. Thank you
I love your work. Just got done with the Incredibles video... I have to thank you for your way of delving into and observing art.
fallen order and the rebels ahsoka duel was probably the first instances i noticed of darth vader's growth. how at first he was a big dude but then morphed into a literal force (heh) of nature, with no hope of stopping. the way he's introduced just as "it's him." as he emerged from a veil of smoke is a level of mythic prescence that can only be rivaled by one scene early into batman: arkham origins where batman slowly walks up to a goon dismissing his existence as batman's shadow looms over him like some sort of harbinger of fear, or as stated for vader, a boogeyman.
I agree. All I've ever wanted from Star Wars was more live action Darth Vader. And every iteration of him has been better and better. It's incredible.
ANIKAN sky-walker and Vader have left a permanent mark on my mind, and I always feel sad and conflicted of his tragedy
Are you going to make a Better Call Saul video soon, or wait until the full season comes out? There were definitely some really great moments so far this season that I'd love to hear your thoughts on, like the ending cliffhanger and the "You think we're wicked?" line.
As a german i especially love, that you used the german Version of hux's speech.
Actually i think the english voice is way more fitting for the fascist theme, but... You know 😅
I'm German American, so fascist squared
Usually when a game throws you an unbeatable boss that just one-hits you into Jesus-land, people will rage-quit and hate the company behind the game. With fallen Order, as soon as I heard that breathing, my reaction was "Well, I'm fucked". No rage-quitting, no hate. Just an understanding of how Darth Vader is by definition the one that ends stuff. And I never felt so excited about a scripted escape-prompt.
I’m only a short way into this, but I had to pause just to appreciate the use of the Imperial March as background muzak 🙂