@Rtkts More down to Leger's delivery. It's just the _way_ he says it, almost ... _confused_ as to why the question's being asked. It carries an unspoken, "I'm _here,_ aren't I?"
@@nickwilliams8302 I like this comment, but would add that it's not more of a confused response to the question moreso than a snap at the fact that everyone else is stealing from them so why not. This holds more true once he goes into his "rewind the clocks back" speech.
Very 1st episode of Batman Beyond cartoon Joker gang lead Terry (main character) to Wayne Manor (he is chasing them on a motorbike).... He skids and crashes in front of Bruce and one of them threatens both Bruce and Terry and says they are the Jokerz...then he looks at his friend and says "let's put a smile on that facce..." while flipping around a small switchblade knife exactly like what Heath Ledger did! Except one thing this show aired in the early 2000s....
The line about Gambol’s grandma was so juvenile, but subtly brilliant. The Joker was gauging Gambol’s reaction to get some background info on him. This explains why he told him the abusive-father-scar-story later on. Men with influential grandmothers typically have absent fathers. The Joker was insanely good at reading people.
Men with influential grandmothers typically have absent fathers. now where in the freakin hell did u dig that ? It's totally my life's story lol feels weird to read your life as such :P
@@sobreaver Well, I'd assume it came with some research, too. After all, Joker knew where to find the mob money and which bills were marked. So he likely already knew Gambol had been raised by his grandmother, and was using the line more just to gauge Gambol's reaction. Would he be protective of his grandmother or dismissive?
“A guy like me....” “Freak.” That was when Joker decided to kill the guy. “I want to hear proposition.” And that’s when he decides to kill that guy last.
In the scene where he kills the Russian mob leader, he at least offers his life in exchange for his men. Of course he denied it, so he fed him to the dogs to take them anyway.
@@TrichsRUs Heath had the luxury of being full blown Joker with clout and power. But Phoenix was better at the acting. The depth he delivered from. I mean you could see him change in the blink of an eye and it wasn't just facial but physically. Ledger was basically just one extremely well played character and I'm not talking anything away from this performance I LOVE it. I just got more from Phoenix. It was that phenomenal a performance. It's not really a contest though. At least got a huge palette cleanse for Leto...
@@jacktilghman9797 not taking the lies people tell themselves seriously, the masks we wear... but he's deadly fucking serious about that. ofc, it's a fictional character so it'll mean different things to every observer: that's just my view ^^
The way Ledger "dead eyes" everyone he looks at except Batman. It's as if each person he looks at is dead already and not really relevant..... watch it again and look at his eyes..... brilliant.
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@meaturama The Lego Batman Movie effortlessly captures the whole dynamic of the Batman/Joker relationship perfectly. I'm not even joking. People dismiss it out of hand because its Lego, but Lego Batman is much closer to canonical Batman than you might think. Also it remembers a time when Batman had a unique comedy potential, and the Movie has endless examples of 'in' jokes, without becoming even nearly played for laughs. Oh, and even though Dark Knight is a great Movie, it stops short of Donkey punching you right in the feels. Lego Batman is every bit a 'proper' Batman movie. And a lot better than 'some' Batman movies with many times the budget. The ways that the rest of the JLA laugh behind his back, and don't invite him to Parties. . . Or the way Bruce Wayne casually adopts a young Robin, instantly forgetting about it the next day. Robin.~ "Oh boy, what are the chances of that? Batman living in Daddy Bruce's cellar?" Batman.~ "Actually, Bruce Wayne lives in MY attic" Yeah, and they both have Bats n their Belfry.
@@meredithleavitt5815 It appears that you lack the intellectual capability to philosophically-dissect (and appreciate) film as an art form. Thus the reason you felt intimidated by the comment from whence this thread was perpetuated. Criticizing what you don't (or cannot) comprehend is really a criticism of yourself. Your comment said more about *you* than the person it was directed at.
How did he make the pencil stick into the table and then jam the eraser end through someone’s skull? I feel like the guy should have backed off and been like, “My eye! There’s a pencil in my eye!”
Mck Finn this was just perfect chemistry CAN YOU IMAGINE WHAT IT WOULD HAVE BEEN LIKE IF THIS JEPT GOING , maaan DC WOULD HAVE TOOKEN A SHARP TURN , I would say it would’ve been Marvel Level Because I doubt the justice league actors wouldn’t even be the same
Sure he's the "star" in the colloquial sense, but he is not the protagonist. He is the agent of change for Batman an Gotham, a brilliant antagonist. No doubt a star though.
I've never seen an actor disappear into his character the same way Heath disappeared into the joker. Batman was good but the joker completely stole the show
- Walks in - makes fun of a crime syndicate, - kills a henchman, - disrespects and intimidates them, - picks the weakest group to kill later as an example not to challenge him, - tricks them into helping him, - leaves. What. A. Boss.
Except that he does all of this by playing on the threat of Batman so really he's just cunning and batman is the boss. Although in the comics Joker kinda makes batman his bitch so...
@@nickwiley9647 I don't know if it was that, so much as that Gambol wasn't buying Joker's schtick and wanted revenge for his dead henchman. So Joker had to show his dominance by removing the one guy in the group likely to stand up to him.
I always thought the Joker was laughing when he gets thrown off the building because he thinks he just won. He finally broke Batman and made him break his one rule, which was to kill someone (even if it’s himself). Rewatch that final scene, when Batman’s grapple gun catches and saves him, the Joker groans, /annoyed/ and he says “YOU... You just couldn’t let me go, could you”
Celso deJesus II - Yeah you’re right but it’s still a good scene. It’s also the Jokers last scene in the film so if he just groaned and that was it it might’ve been a bit anti climactic. I love how he says “I think you and I are destined to do this for a very long time,” I feel like that’s kind of a clever joke cause they’re probably always going to be making comics of Batman chasing after the Joker
"You're crazy" "I'm not. No, I'm not" For me, the most chilling line in the whole movie (and my personal favorite). This is who he really is. His "chaos" is well planned, thought through and intentional which makes him way more dangerous than they realize. Everything else he does from that point on flows from this glimpse of the real Joker. Just my two cents.
The “nickel for his grandma” line was him, based on observing the antagonist in the room (Gambol) after doing some minor background check (Because Joker is 10 steps ahead always) and seeing how flamboyant he is compared to the other mobsters [Earrings, haircut, speech, style (I’m not stereotyping, it’s psychology)], betting that Gambol was in fact raised by a grandma and therefore lacked a father, hence the reason he tells the story about his father in a successful attempt to emotionally and mentally torture Gambol knowing that’s something that probably affected him sometime, so when before he kills him Gambol is in complete shock and fear and Joker in absolute control. It was a “gamble” that paid off maliciously good. AMAZING CHARACTER AND ACTOR RIP LEDGER
Might be why I felt his second story with Rachel didn't have the same impact. That, and Batman interrupting. And Rachel not cooperating. And the music not as foreboding. But you get the idea.
rus0004 Yeah this was definitely planted better than with Rachel but given the setting of that one, he had to think quicker so it wasn’t as deep but still enough to creep her out, he probably wasn’t gonna kill her until he realized Batman chased after her leaving a room filled with hostages. Meaning he found a weakness, with a bit of luck cause he wanted to break Harvey more.
But I don’t how would you get that Gambol has been raised by his grandmother because he did not have a father that was present in his life. That seems quite interesting to me. Do you have a source for that perhaps? Secondly if people with absent father's usually have their grandmother watching over them, why is it not typical for the son’s own mother to look out for him or hell even their grandfather? It would make more sense to me that people with absent father's would get closer to their mothers or grandfathers
@@rioheat hmm alright. Suppose he did not have a mom to raise him, I'm just thinking out loud, why not his grandfather? I mean if you really having a father in your life why wouldn't you seek care from your grandFATHER? If it would be the other way I could see it make sense as well. If Gambol for example did not grow up with a mother that he would seek care from primarily his grandMOTHER. I don't know I just find it interesting that a person would go to his grandmother when his father is not around. I couldn't really find a scientific source to inquire about this more specifically, not that I don't believe you
"You know how I got these scars?" "No. But I know how you got these..." *throws off roof* I still don't think the Joker laughed because he was thrown off of a building. I think he was laughing because Batman just told him a joke.
It was a tribute to The Killing Joke comic ending....where Joker tells Batman a joke and next panel it's unclear weather or not Batman goes insane and strangles Joker to death.
Daniel Cooke cool, Thanks! I’ve always wanted to read that comic. Thanks for ruining the end for me hahahahaha. Although I suppose the statute of limitations for spoilers is lonnnng over.
The fact that he is bothered by people calling him crazy is actually realistic. The more insane a person gets the more that person thinks he is getting saner
Alex I don’t heath ledgers joker was insane, if he was he definitely wouldn’t have been able to carry out his plans and be as intelligent as he is in the movie
Ledger’s take on the Joker made us crave more and wanting to see more of him, and whenever he appeared on screen you couldn’t take your eyes off him. Such a stunning performance and the fact that it was such an original take on the character and created entirely by him shows what a genius he was
Absolutely. And when you see that a guy like Christian Bale had immense respect for him as an actor and as a friend, you know that he must have had something special too. Bale does not strike me as the type to easily show respect for another actor.
He's not serious about joining them. He gives them a playing card to contact him. They have no power over anything he does. He is as mercurial as the card implies.
Joker is just a cunning psychopath and pathological liar. By telling people he doesnt scheme. That lie right there could be considered a scheme itself. He WANTS you to think that he is some sort of agent of chaos. The fact that he had layers upon layers of plans and tactics hidden in chaotic sight. Shows how truly deadly his mind is. He is able to plan within that confusion and panic. However Joker does understand what Batman was able to do not alot of others could do. Batman was able to rule through fear. Batman struck fear in the hearts and minds of would be criminals. As a vigilante. Both Vigilante and antagonist operated outside of conventional law. Except he understands. So all this boils down to the lesser of two evils. Despite batman being a HERO to most people. He is still viewed as a criminal especially how he accepted Jokers crime and became a villain himself. This batman had to lie just like how joker is a liar in order to keep Order and retain Harvey's dignity. A villain who is evil and destruction. A villain who is willing to persecution and defend Gotham and it's people.
@@doomslayer5191 , all valid.points. Joker, for one, IS "a schemer", although he would argue he's not. Batman is, just as Joker said, "There's no going back." and "Outta some self-righteousness", which is true. Joker "SEES" All of this. Joker is in fact, a genius in this movie. A maniacal, psychotic, psychopathic genius, but a genius nonetheless. He even tempts Batman to kill him: "C'mon. C'mon. I wantcha to do it. I wantcha to do it. Hit me. Hit me.", because he ALREADY knows, or at least he's nearly certain at this point that Batman Won't kill him; this act of him "tempting" Batman, and the results, solidifies Joker's KNOWING, or again, his "guestimating with certainty" that Batman Won't kill him. And, this, in turn, gives Joker his forever-battling-yet-never-killing nemesis: His pardon the expression, "Dark Knight" to the "Clown Prince of Crime" AKA, Joker.
A lot of the lines were changed by Ledger. The writers were part of the masterpiece that is the Joker, but Ledger was the Mastermind that gave us this golden performance.
@@finnheisenheim8274 I don't think so, The Batman films would be really profitable but it's an entire universe, I don't think JUST Heath Ledger can carry all those films by himself.
The emphasis on the 'T' when the Joker replies "No I'm not" to the "You're crazy" is a masterful piece of dialogue delivery for me. It says to me that the Joker is not simply refuting the insult, he is stating for an unarguable fact that he is not crazy. Whenever he is insulted, we see the Joker glare at someone, point or replies with an insult of his own "...group therapy sessions.", which go along with the pencil trick to show he is not to be messed with. The writing and delivery are why we'll be talking about this film and this scene for decades.
Show, don't tell. Suicide Squad thinks character development is Amanda Waller telling the audience who the characters are. The Dark Knight showed us who The Joker is through his actions and interactions with other characters.
Agreed, and I think the problem stems from the fact that Suicide Squad is an ensemble piece, which means they have to shoehorn in as much information as possible in as short a time as possible.
@@mrkrunch4340 It relates to one of the biggest failures of the DCEU. They never took the time to develop their characters the way the MCU did. They think throwing a bunch of big names into a movie is gonna make us care about them.
Im sure other people have mentioned this, but I noticed that whenever a villain in each of the movies beat Batman in their first respective confrontations, they make a pun: Batman Begins- "You need to lighten up" and then Scarecrow lights Batman on fire The Dark Knight- "Let her go" "Very poor choice of words" and then let's her go The Dark Knight Rises- "I was wondering what would break first- your spirit or your body" and then Bane breaks Batman's back
Wow, what a super unpopular opinion…here‘s a real one: Batman Begins was the better Batman movie. The Dark Knight was more of a psychological action-thriller with Batman included.
And to think, there were MANY people that hated Heath Ledger being cast as Joker when it was first announced. How many of them have deleted their angry comments since? Uhh... half.
I thought it was a terrible casting choice, though I didn't "hate" it, as I'm not that invested in the franchise. But rarely when it comes to entertainment have I been so pleased to be wrong.
I think it was because I knew him from love stories alot he portrayed in them so him portraying a dark payhcopath character I honestly thought he couldn't do it but damn I was hella wrong he did an amazing job.
@@relaxhedx7064 yeah his earlier stuff was based on him being hired for his looks rather than his talent i guess? great fucking actor, he made every film he was in good. (or at least, far more watchable than it'd be without him)
If the scene never gets old then apparently neither does the comment. Is there a cut off on comments before you don't reply? 1 week? A month? An eternity? As for the typo.... big deal.
I never noticed that the Joker gets a little bothered getting called a freak and crazy before. Really adds another extra interesting side to his character.
Not a single thing that the Joker even says, or does for that matter, is remotely reasonable, but no matter what, he thinks he is the most reasonable person in the room. That's the mark of a truly scary villain right there.
How they were silenced by his laugh. His slow entrance .No violence ,no threats ,no bang , but he still commanded their complete attention immediately.. no dialogue
The card being a joker with no actual way of contacting the individual called The Joker also reinforces your point that he had no intention of actually honoring his deal with the mob.
He's really funny, I actually laugh out loud at the pencil trick. Being funny, terrifying, intelligent, criminally insane, and mysterious are great ingredients for a character, but almost impossible for an actor to pull off. Ledger pulled off a one in a billion performance and I'm grateful.
I love how later in the movie the Joker casually tells Batman "What would do without you, go back to ripping off mob dealers?" confirming that the Joker met the mobsters purely to manipulate them and could not give less of a damn about them.
I remember myself after watching this movie thinking I may have liked the villain better than the hero for the first time. Briilliant portrayal by Ledger.
I think the magic was in the perceived unpredictability of the Joker... In reality The Joker is a master of predictions but others can’t predict HIM. He anticipates the mobster move and that’s why he showed them the “magic trick”.
Well the nice thing is the most predictable people are the "schemers" as Joker calls them, the plotters, politicians, the liars. Joker's motivation is really the simpliest out of anyone in this movie (everything burns) but he's "unpredictable" because no one is willing to accept that as his motivation, including Batman till much later in the movie
God damn, what a perfect performance. It’s still heartbreaking that Ledger didn’t get to have the Daniel Day-Lewis-esque career he undoubtedly would have.
Someone else pointed it out and I liked it: when Joker is throwing jokes and is being flippant, the mob is being serious, when Joker is being serious (or at least serious in his deception) they laugh at him.
Its fine to have opinions since quality is subjective. But, the dark knight is more of a crime/thriller than a superhero film. Batman Begins is more of one.
"A guy like me.." "A Freak" *mob laughs* "A guy.. like.. Me- look, Listen" I always thought Joker was triggered at the idea that HE could set himself up for something so simple.
I want to know what the Joker is like while on the toilet. He is portrayed as bigger than life. But we’re all the same on the great equalizer: the toilet.
He doesn't use a toilet, he craps in a bag, then places it at someones door, lights it on fire, rings the doorbell and splits. And, well, you know what happens next.
Milktraap Yes! At least with Batman, we can imagine him as Mr. Wayne. It’s not hard to imagine men in suites on the can. But a crazy guy like Joker is a different story.
As far as the Joker's False Goals, yeah he never gave a shit about money, he just wanted the resources to bring his chaos making operation to the next level. Note that while the Joker is clever and capable before this scene, see the bank robbery, by all other account he's a small time, two bit crook. It takes the mob's resources and his newfound notoriety to take him to super villain territory. But as for not wanting to kill Batman, I personally think at the start he didn't care one bit about Batman, he was just an opportunity, or at best a worthy opponent. I think it is through coming into conflict with Bats in the first half of the film that changes his perspective. Whereas before Batman was simply a challenging opponent to be beaten, the Joker realizes that Batman really is that one other "authentic" person, living and fighting as his true self. Once he realizes this, the Joker abandons his goal of killing/unmasking Batman and instead now sees him as his equal. "You... complete... me..." This interpretation gives the Joker a slight change in perspective, and thus, a small but important character arc. Which I think is pretty neat.
JustinDL97 I really liked your thoughts. I agree with what you said. My post is just adding to your well reasoned ideas. Life is a journey. We are all looking for things. People need other people to be complete. A man seeks a woman. Ali needed Frazier. With extremely disagreeable people, you are looking for an adversary to argue with and disagree with. The more worthy the adversary, the better the argument and greater the synergy. The better the antagonist, the greater the accomplishment, satisfaction, and reward. The Joker is looking for that adversary. His first attempt is with Gotham’s mod. This was no contest. Joker wins! The Joker then moved up to Batman. The Joker finds Batman to be his worthy adversary. Batman gives the Joker what no one else can give the Joker. A challenging argument. It is the Joker’s journey and his encounters with Batman that makes the movie. Heath Ledger’s Joker is one of the most interesting characters I have been introduced to in the movies. The uncomfortable part is that the Joker is a dark, evil character, yet I like him and miss him when he is not on screen. This movie captured a dark part of the human psyche. A part of the human condition that we all know and have. A part of the human condition that just wants to watch the world burn. In Sherman’s March to the sea, the Union army destroyed all the southern cities they encountered. This was fun to do. The Joker would have liked to be one of Sherman’s men during the Civil War. Spreading destruction and watching the world burn. I bet there were some Union soldiers who missed it when the war was over. The Joker is a survivor and discipline of chaos, and he wants to bring chaos back. War is hell, and hell is chaos. The Joker is the agent of chaos.
I am suggesting there is a pleasurable aspect to burning down cities. I’m suggesting the men performing the destruction enjoyed it. See the arsonist who loves fire. Have you explored Steven King’s movie “The Stand?” Trashcan Man? The fact that you cannot see the pleasurable aspects of destruction tells me you may be in denial on this topic. Some men actually love war. Some men don’t want war to be over. Denial in these terms is a psychological defense mechanism in which the problem or reality is avoided by denying the problem or reality exists. Your inability to come to terms with a character like the Joker who embraces or loves destructive chaos is understandable. While I can understand the Joker’s dark side, I would rather run away from it than embrace it. What makes the Joker so frightening is his level of rationality and his ability to persuade. On some of his points, the Joker may be correct. Compare the Joker’s philosophy with that of Nietzsche, who says: “God is dead. There is no religion. There are no rules. We are moral because of fear of punishment, not because people are good.” Take away the rules of society, which Nietzsche says are made up, and you get the Joker. Embrace the chaos. We love the Joker because, deep down, that who we are.
@@smhollanshead Nietzsche didn't stop there, though. He stated that, yes, the rules of society are figments, and therefore we ought to construct our own individual moral codes, not throw caution to the wind.
While what you suggest seems reasonable in theory, it’s not what happens in practice. We must recognize how difficult for a person to develop his or her own personal philosophy of life. Most of us just can’t do it. But, we have the advantage of 5000 years of philosophic thinking to help us. The problem is those lost people who believe in nihilism May run towards the Joker as a role model. Wasn’t there a disturbed young man in face paint who shot up a movie theater? While I agree developing an individual philosophy is a noble goal, it is also dangerous and leads to instability. It is better for the best amongst us to lead, and the people get behind the leader. Even having one person per generation what can add to the meaning of life is significant. This is what happened with Christianity and Islam, with Gandhi in India, with George Washington in 1776. On the darker side, it is also what happened with Alford Hitler in Nazi Germany.
One of my favorite scenes / most Joker defining moment is when he burns "only his half" of the money pile. He isn't about financial gain - he's a real anarchistic villain - he doesn't care that the entire pile burns ( including the mob's half of the money ) and that makes for a great joke IMO - which is what he is also all about - Chaos and contagion
This was a "once in a lifetime" performance, it and that's how it should be. Lightning in a bottle. As an actor, you want to always be working, but as an artist, you don't want to repeat yourself and get type-cast, and you definitely don't reprise the role if the script is bad. Consider the tiny scrap of film Cillian Murphy gets to cameo in The Dark Knight, then picture them doing the same thing to Ledger in the 3rd installment; it would really strip the character of intensity in my opinion. "Oh, yeah, that guy, he was in the last one. Anyway..." The great ones, however, leave their mark on a character, even when they return to it, so who knows? That's why, I guess, Christopher Reeve is Superman, Marlon Brando is Stanley Kowalski, Harrison Ford is Han Solo, Morgan Freeman is "God," and....yeah, Heath Ledger is The Joker. It's sad sometimes, but you have to leave the party while you're still welcome to stay.
Nolan writes really cerebral but emotionally-disabled characters, which perfectly speaks to most of the film students (aka many youtube analysts) that i studied with lol. I love his films, while also shaking my head at why he constructs facsimiles of emotional motivation using roundabout, complex logical systems. Absolute unit
Wanna know the magic trick that Ledger used that other actors forgot? When Ledger acted as the Joker, he tried to imagine what it was like to feel what the Joker may feel... when he was supposed to be angry, he tried to be angry. Most actors forget this, and end up with stilted, and emotionless acting: such as nearly all the new Hollywood movies. Joaquin was amazing as Arthur Fleck, because he made us feel what he felt, as though he actually were Arthur Fleck.
Every time Joker treating people with a knife, he also gripping their neck. This purpose to check the veins and keep checking their eyes movement. He reading the victims, enjoying their fear. Just like an interrogation. And the back story he told keeps changing according to who the victim is.
I genuinely cannot get enough of your videos. I’m an English teacher with a deep passion for analysis and your videos scratch an itch that is somehow missed by other creators in our field. Well done and keep it up! P.S. it also helps that much of your work focuses around A Song of Ice and Fire, which is my favorite series of all time.
DillyDyson007 I currently only create for my own enjoyment, or for the education of my students. However, I’ve recently considered broadening into a more public space.
"Give the audience what they want, just not how they expect it." I've never actually heard that golden rule before. Very thought provoking and makes me reflect on my own writing. Thank you. I did, indeed, learn something from this.
A much better and sound advice indeed than the average "avoid this and this Trope because they are just bad and predictable' from many creative writing videos and articles. I prefer anytime an expected but witty and engaging scene than a poorly written plot twist.
The look in Joker's eyes, the way he leers, cackles, its hard to believe it's Heath Ledger, terrifying. You cannot stop watching his performance, it takes over.
I also believe that the Joker never wanted to cooperate with the mobsters, simply by not taking the seriously and obviously seeing them as not on his own level of intelligence and as you said through thinking he is the only real sane person seein everything clearly. He is as alone as he can be, also by masking himself. To get what he wants he needs people, money and weapons though while not caring too much about these things. Interesting that he is calling gordan "alone", I think he can very much relate with him, hust that they are on different sides.
xAka_DeViL yeah. The mob was beneath him. Though I would say his mind was set on the Batman being his opposite, with Gordon being in the middle. Gordon has seen both sides of this conflict and while he favors Batman’s ideals......well......to put it simply.... All it takes is one bad day
It's nice that there are so many videos about the Joker from the Dark Knight, because I could honestly spend an entire day listening to all of them haha
12 years later I still find new original content in regards to this movie. Regardless whether you like the movie or not, this shows how people honestly think that this is one in a million of kind that we get very so often that we go back to watching it 12 years later and STILL find new bits and pieces that we are simply fascinating.
OMG YAAAAAAS I've finally found someone that appreciates this scene the way I do! The pause he gave when called a freak and crazy are what I loved about this scene. So much depth in his emotion!
Watching that scene really made me realize that Ledger was genuinely funny as the Joker. And it works brilliantly, he’s not this laugh out loud cartoon character, sort of like he was when the comics code didn’t allow violence, but here his form of comedy is dryer than expected, its understated and almost sarcastic.
The Joker plans his chaos. The pencil is a plan, his finger is blocking the hammer on the gun to prevent firing, he has a nurse outfit, he told Batman the inverse of where Rachel is, he knew which boats to put the bombs on. Chaos is his mis-direction.
its not a misdirection it's simple fallacy of every chaotic character that ever claimed to be agent of chaos. Most even make organisations. That's how much of a joke chaos is.
If you rewatch that whole scene of him telling him where Rachel was, he explains to Batman his rules and regulations. He tells Batman that he is going to misdirect him but if he wants to save the one he really wants to save he needs to not listen to his directions.
Something else Nolan fucked up! Harley Quinn has the nurse outfit! Joker is actually second person Batman kills...he rots in Arkham Asylum for most of his life. Joker actually does try and kill Batman quite a few times...in fact he was hired by that mob to kill him so I doubt very much that he would kill the guys who're going to be paying him....
This scene provides many little Easter egg clues of joker’s personality. For one, joker being genuinely annoyed and upset at being called crazy was a fantastic moment. Nice to see this acknowledged finally.
Funnily enough, after filming that scene, Heath Ledger asked Eric Roberts if he thought his performance was good. Robert’s’ reaction was “Are you kidding? That was amazing!” RIP Heath Ledger.
The Monty Python-esque pop-ups at the bottom with the GoT reference at 3:37 was absolutely inspired, and I commend your visual designers heartily. Very well played, indeed.
Man, I can't believe this movie is more than a decade old now. I watched that shit in the theater with my mom and stepsiblings. It's wild. Anyway, the video is great, and these dialogue dive videos are super interesting. I'm really interest in how a character can be explored through his dialogue, so I'm more than up for more of these. Maybe something around Bojack Horseman since I love that show and your videos on it are why I found your channel? Anyway, kudos.
fusiontoa18 Really? Ouch, dude. That must've sucked. I was younger than 16 at the time but I saw this movie in theaters and begged to go back. Believe it's actually only PG-13 lol
Just wanted to say that at the scene where he had the gun pointed at his head. He never put his finger off the triggering head. He was never going to get shot. He just gambled he could get Harvey on his side. It actually shows how manipulative he actually is.
This was the most engrossing video I've watched in a while. Even though I knew the dialogue of the scene itself was drawing to a close and you didn't have any more material to work with, I actually jolted in surprise when the screen went white to start your channel identification. Well done.
I'd suggest there is just as much character exposition in the opening bank heist as this (regarding Joker). Not necessarily vocalized... rather via actions, his demeanor, the set-up, and execution of the segment.
The bank heist also shows early on that the Joker is a meticulous planner... a SCHEMER. That in mind, I laughed when he was telling Harvey about how he's an agent of chaos, and he's the opponent of the schemers. Looks like the joke is on Harvey.
(To add a bit more thought to my initial post):: There's a brilliance in using the hired hand bank thieves as a narrational exposition tool for the Joker. I feel it highly more effective than the mob/kitchen scene while capturing the nature of Ledger's Joker in theatrical fashion. Theres a sense of mystery, suspense & wonderment as to who this character is as they discuss him (i.e. "War Paint"); and sheds just enough information without needing dialogue from the Joker himself. Christopher Nolan uses this narration to excite the audience into suspense. The orchestration of skilled thieves while blending in exposes a master manipulation... reinforced as they don't know his identity or that he's playing the role of a 'hired hand.' This scene plays out haphazardly, while ultimately being planned to perfection (even if one would argue his ultimate goal is chaos & unpredictability... a spline plot of meticulous precision is the path that allows Joker to portray this vision of anarchy). His lack of empathy for human life is clear as day in the execution as a whole (chain-murdering each thief) and specifically as he shoots the 'bus driver' while multitasking/looking away to carry on. His non-intention to become part of any social ring (as with the mob also) is hammered home in the opening as he literally has each doppelgänger executed. He comes into the scene unannounced & isolated and disappears into a sea of school busses; again as the last and only man standing once again camouflaged.
zibbybone He’s an amazing and cunning schemer, but he is chaotic in his goals. If he suddenly decides he wants to rob a bank that would be the chaotic part. Planning it perfectly with ease is just part of his skill set. It’s a terrifying combination to have. That’s why I like the theory that he’s ex military. That he came from a background of planning battles and such but ended up psychologically damaged by war
5:20. Damn, I never even realized that he stole from them. Good analysis. Heath was definitely the star of this one. I’m glad that I stumbled onto this channel. I’m looking forward to your other videos.
I'm he didn't "laugh " once... Who is this guy?.....'cause he ain't the Joker! The Joker has several maniacal/homicidal "laughs" depending upon his mood and where he is....
@@danielcooke3800 to be honest I liked this joker the "laught" is important but Heath Ledger's joker got the psychology of the character on point. And Heath Ledger's laugh is not awesome but having a colorful clown shouting puns and laughing all the time would ruin the movie.
This video was just unbelievably amazing. I have just watched the movie for the first time a couple of days ago (yeah) and it blew my mind. Since then I have watched youtube videos of it, and this is by far the best one. Thank you so much!
Excellent analysis! I especially enjoyed the two moments you mentioned when Joker was enraged by being called "freak" and "crazy", since (a) this is a radical departure from previous incarnations of the Joker (as you mentioned) and (b) the accusation of insanity denigrates and belittles his crusade, just as it would for Batman. This made me think of a similiar dialogue between Daredevil and Punisher when they first meet on the rooftop in the second season of "Daredevil". Before confronting the Punisher, Daredevil just dismissed him as a nutjob with guns, and Punisher just dismissed him as one more obstacle to his crusade. No more or less significant than that. After calling the Punisher "unhinged" during their argument, however, the Punisher visibly became enraged because the idea that Frank might just be mentally ill figuratively spits in his face. Like the Joker, Frank sees himself as the protagonist, putting his military skills to use to rid the world of as many criminals as he possibly can before being taken out himself, so that no other innocent people have to lose their loved ones like he did. Abstract principles and nobler ambitions become psychologized and small in the eyes of those same people Joker and Punisher are trying to convince. It's an attack on their value judgments, ironically the same kind of attack Joker gleefully uses on Batman to belittle HIS crusade.
10:45 I think that this belief is 100% substantiated. The through line with "being serious" is a detail I never noticed before, but when he puts his "Business card" down on the table, it's a Joker card from a standard card deck. I always took that as a queue that Joker thought of dealing with the mobsters as a joke, given that he uses the act of giving a Business card, a standard procedure when doing business with someone, to make another joke.
This is just one of many great scenes from this masterpiece, but how about an analysis of the Joker and Harvey Dent scene in the hospital (one of the most chilling scenes in my opinion) and also the interrogation scene with Batman
"You think you can steal from us and just walk away?"
*"Yeah"*
I was just about to comment the same thing.
@Rtkts
More down to Leger's delivery. It's just the _way_ he says it, almost ... _confused_ as to why the question's being asked. It carries an unspoken, "I'm _here,_ aren't I?"
@@nickwilliams8302 I like this comment, but would add that it's not more of a confused response to the question moreso than a snap at the fact that everyone else is stealing from them so why not. This holds more true once he goes into his "rewind the clocks back" speech.
A line from the cartoon Batman Beyond
Very 1st episode of Batman Beyond cartoon Joker gang lead Terry (main character) to Wayne Manor (he is chasing them on a motorbike).... He skids and crashes in front of Bruce and one of them threatens both Bruce and Terry and says they are the Jokerz...then he looks at his friend and says "let's put a smile on that facce..." while flipping around a small switchblade knife exactly like what Heath Ledger did! Except one thing this show aired in the early 2000s....
Salary negotiation 101.
"How much do you want?"
"Uh... Half"
That’s what you do when you act interested but don’t want the job lol
Well that's exactly what Disney did
@@23lijah50 well too bad their use of it blowed spider-man out of the MCU
All of it
Actual Joker would take all of it
The line about Gambol’s grandma was so juvenile, but subtly brilliant. The Joker was gauging Gambol’s reaction to get some background info on him. This explains why he told him the abusive-father-scar-story later on. Men with influential grandmothers typically have absent fathers. The Joker was insanely good at reading people.
Damn! Good catch
Pedro Pereira Fr good
Men with influential grandmothers typically have absent fathers. now where in the freakin hell did u dig that ? It's totally my life's story lol feels weird to read your life as such :P
@@sobreaver Well, I'd assume it came with some research, too. After all, Joker knew where to find the mob money and which bills were marked. So he likely already knew Gambol had been raised by his grandmother, and was using the line more just to gauge Gambol's reaction. Would he be protective of his grandmother or dismissive?
He was a special operator.
but he is the protaganist. He burns all the mobs money, he gets most corrupt cops busted, he gets rid of the batman, he makes gordon the commissioner
no. shut up. you're not allowed to do that xD
In a weird way you're right
Let’s ignore all the people who he killed, kidnapped, and extortion. I see your point but I’d still consider him a textbook villain
@@gregorio5543 I feel like burning the Mob's money does a lot to make up for that, but point
Thanks for watching this episode of film theory!
“A guy like me....”
“Freak.”
That was when Joker decided to kill the guy.
“I want to hear proposition.”
And that’s when he decides to kill that guy last.
Well it wasn't really last. He fed that guy to his dogs after burning the money and Lau. :)
Maroney was still alive at that point.
In the scene where he kills the Russian mob leader, he at least offers his life in exchange for his men. Of course he denied it, so he fed him to the dogs to take them anyway.
i think he wouldve left him alive if the russian cooperated when the money gets gasoline'd
@@YetAnotherTH-camr yeah he said tell your men they work for me now. He disobeyed and that's when he killed him.
"How about a magic trick?"
Ad plays.
Well played TH-cam, Well played.
TH-cam: Watch me make this video disappear
@@burningstar1793 TaRAN!!!And it gone:√
You do know it's the content creator that chooses exactly when and how often ads play, right?
*[ad for Penn and Teller MasterClass plays]*
Cody Fanning tada, your data is gone
Joaquin is Arthur Fleck, but Heath is still the Joker.
Naw. I loved Heath but Phoenix was phenomenal and a better Joker once he transcended Arthur.
TC Joaquin did a great job, but he was only the joker at the end of the movie and had no scene with the Dark Knight. “You complete me” -Joker
@@TrichsRUs And? He was still by far the better actor. In my opinion.
TC I think Heath played the better “character”, while Joaquin told the better story.
@@TrichsRUs Heath had the luxury of being full blown Joker with clout and power. But Phoenix was better at the acting. The depth he delivered from. I mean you could see him change in the blink of an eye and it wasn't just facial but physically. Ledger was basically just one extremely well played character and I'm not talking anything away from this performance I LOVE it. I just got more from Phoenix. It was that phenomenal a performance. It's not really a contest though. At least got a huge palette cleanse for Leto...
He tells them to call when they want to take it serious and gives them joker card. Lol
Still laugh about it until this day. I love that fucking scene so damn much.
His whole point is NOT taking anything seriously though.
@@jacktilghman9797 not taking the lies people tell themselves seriously, the masks we wear...
but he's deadly fucking serious about that.
ofc, it's a fictional character so it'll mean different things to every observer: that's just my view ^^
Right
The way Ledger "dead eyes" everyone he looks at except Batman. It's as if each person he looks at is dead already and not really relevant..... watch it again and look at his eyes..... brilliant.
@meaturama The Lego Batman Movie effortlessly
captures the whole dynamic of the Batman/Joker relationship perfectly. I'm not even joking. People dismiss it out of hand because its Lego, but Lego Batman is much closer to canonical Batman than you might think. Also it remembers a time when Batman had a unique comedy potential, and the Movie has endless examples of 'in' jokes, without becoming even nearly played for laughs. Oh, and even though Dark Knight is a great Movie, it stops short of Donkey punching you right in the feels. Lego Batman is every bit a 'proper' Batman movie. And a lot better than 'some' Batman movies with many times the budget. The ways that the rest of the JLA laugh behind his back, and don't invite him to Parties. . . Or the way Bruce Wayne casually adopts a young Robin, instantly forgetting
about it the next day.
Robin.~ "Oh boy, what are the chances of that? Batman living in Daddy Bruce's cellar?"
Batman.~ "Actually, Bruce Wayne lives in MY attic"
Yeah, and they both have Bats n their Belfry.
Stop overanalyzing u weirdo
@@meredithleavitt5815 shut the fuck up meredith. you have shit taste and no room to talk
@@meredithleavitt5815 It appears that you lack the intellectual capability to philosophically-dissect (and appreciate) film as an art form. Thus the reason you felt intimidated by the comment from whence this thread was perpetuated. Criticizing what you don't (or cannot) comprehend is really a criticism of yourself. Your comment said more about *you* than the person it was directed at.
@@meredithleavitt5815 why so serious.............................i had to say it
Also, the pencil trick shows the difference between a criminal and a super villain. As Megamind would say, "Presentation!"
I"m gonna learn that trick and perform it on Fool Us. I think it would go over well.
And this stunt predates John Wick. Joker did this with an unsharpened pencil.
@@acgearsandarms1343 joker did it eraser first, pointed end goes in the table
Lol words I can hear
How did he make the pencil stick into the table and then jam the eraser end through someone’s skull? I feel like the guy should have backed off and been like, “My eye! There’s a pencil in my eye!”
The Joker: “How about a magic trick”
An Ad pops up
Me: Cool magic trick
Ah ye u got ad on a vid with no add
@@vambiy naw fam, i can see one yellow bar in the 3rd minutes of the video
Use Vanced
The trick should be "i'm gonna make these ads permanently disappear"
My ad was a masterclass ad starting with a author guy showing his pencil.
Jokers actually the star of this movie. Heath Ledgers performance was outstanding and made the whole movie brilliant
Mck Finn this was just perfect chemistry CAN YOU IMAGINE WHAT IT WOULD HAVE BEEN LIKE IF THIS JEPT GOING , maaan DC WOULD HAVE TOOKEN A SHARP TURN , I would say it would’ve been Marvel Level Because I doubt the justice league actors wouldn’t even be the same
Sure he's the "star" in the colloquial sense, but he is not the protagonist. He is the agent of change for Batman an Gotham, a brilliant antagonist. No doubt a star though.
I've never seen an actor disappear into his character the same way Heath disappeared into the joker. Batman was good but the joker completely stole the show
Which makes sense because Batman Begins was Batman's origin.
I have to agree. Mr. Ledger stole the whole movie, in my opinion.
- Walks in
- makes fun of a crime syndicate,
- kills a henchman,
- disrespects and intimidates them,
- picks the weakest group to kill later as an example not to challenge him,
- tricks them into helping him,
- leaves.
What. A. Boss.
And he accomplishes this in under 5 minutes
Except that he does all of this by playing on the threat of Batman so really he's just cunning and batman is the boss. Although in the comics Joker kinda makes batman his bitch so...
I dont know too much about Batman lore, was Gamble the weakest there?
@@nickwiley9647 I don't know if it was that, so much as that Gambol wasn't buying Joker's schtick and wanted revenge for his dead henchman. So Joker had to show his dominance by removing the one guy in the group likely to stand up to him.
Not to mention makes a couple members of the weakest group kill each other to be apart of the jokers group
I always thought the Joker was laughing when he gets thrown off the building because he thinks he just won. He finally broke Batman and made him break his one rule, which was to kill someone (even if it’s himself). Rewatch that final scene, when Batman’s grapple gun catches and saves him, the Joker groans, /annoyed/ and he says “YOU... You just couldn’t let me go, could you”
Celso deJesus II - Yeah you’re right but it’s still a good scene. It’s also the Jokers last scene in the film so if he just groaned and that was it it might’ve been a bit anti climactic. I love how he says “I think you and I are destined to do this for a very long time,” I feel like that’s kind of a clever joke cause they’re probably always going to be making comics of Batman chasing after the Joker
Joker wins anyway.
The joker has always tried to make the batman break his "one rule". Even if the joker is the one who dies. You are correct in your assessment.
If you count that as killing...than he killed Ras Al Gul
Daniel Cooke - Lol ya he totally killed Ra’s
"You're crazy"
"I'm not. No, I'm not"
For me, the most chilling line in the whole movie (and my personal favorite). This is who he really is. His "chaos" is well planned, thought through and intentional which makes him way more dangerous than they realize. Everything else he does from that point on flows from this glimpse of the real Joker. Just my two cents.
I dont think many caught that part...joker the severe narcissist and severe psychopath
The face and emotion change, that little relaxed smirk he has before he delivers that line is impeccable acting
It’s the hard T he puts on the second “not” for me. Like he’s biting his tongue.
this line or “LOOK AT ME” are prob the most terrifying to me. his delivery of both is so nuanced and so utterly perfect, it terrifies me.
@@RenfromBespin That was when the real person who called himself Joker appeared. His entire demeanor changed that line.
The “nickel for his grandma” line was him, based on observing the antagonist in the room (Gambol) after doing some minor background check (Because Joker is 10 steps ahead always) and seeing how flamboyant he is compared to the other mobsters [Earrings, haircut, speech, style (I’m not stereotyping, it’s psychology)], betting that Gambol was in fact raised by a grandma and therefore lacked a father, hence the reason he tells the story about his father in a successful attempt to emotionally and mentally torture Gambol knowing that’s something that probably affected him sometime, so when before he kills him Gambol is in complete shock and fear and Joker in absolute control. It was a “gamble” that paid off maliciously good. AMAZING CHARACTER AND ACTOR RIP LEDGER
Might be why I felt his second story with Rachel didn't have the same impact.
That, and Batman interrupting.
And Rachel not cooperating.
And the music not as foreboding.
But you get the idea.
rus0004 Yeah this was definitely planted better than with Rachel but given the setting of that one, he had to think quicker so it wasn’t as deep but still enough to creep her out, he probably wasn’t gonna kill her until he realized Batman chased after her leaving a room filled with hostages. Meaning he found a weakness, with a bit of luck cause he wanted to break Harvey more.
But I don’t how would you get that Gambol has been raised by his grandmother because he did not have a father that was present in his life. That seems quite interesting to me. Do you have a source for that perhaps?
Secondly if people with absent father's usually have their grandmother watching over them, why is it not typical for the son’s own mother to look out for him or hell even their grandfather? It would make more sense to me that people with absent father's would get closer to their mothers or grandfathers
@@emiel255 no, it’s just stereotypical but oddly true a lot of times (not always) and depending on the mom yea maybe his mom raised him
@@rioheat hmm alright. Suppose he did not have a mom to raise him, I'm just thinking out loud, why not his grandfather? I mean if you really having a father in your life why wouldn't you seek care from your grandFATHER?
If it would be the other way I could see it make sense as well. If Gambol for example did not grow up with a mother that he would seek care from primarily his grandMOTHER. I don't know I just find it interesting that a person would go to his grandmother when his father is not around. I couldn't really find a scientific source to inquire about this more specifically, not that I don't believe you
"You know how I got these scars?"
"No. But I know how you got these..."
*throws off roof*
I still don't think the Joker laughed because he was thrown off of a building. I think he was laughing because Batman just told him a joke.
It was a tribute to The Killing Joke comic ending....where Joker tells Batman a joke and next panel it's unclear weather or not Batman goes insane and strangles Joker to death.
U have to actually have read the comic 📖 to know that.
Daniel Cooke cool, Thanks! I’ve always wanted to read that comic. Thanks for ruining the end for me hahahahaha. Although I suppose the statute of limitations for spoilers is lonnnng over.
Daniel Cooke (all jokes aside, I really should read it)
As a true Batman fan u should own it!
The fact that he is bothered by people calling him crazy is actually realistic. The more insane a person gets the more that person thinks he is getting saner
Alex I don’t heath ledgers joker was insane, if he was he definitely wouldn’t have been able to carry out his plans and be as intelligent as he is in the movie
@@elijahdiablo7310 he just said the joker is unpredictable and never plans he just do things.
HIGH FUNCTIONING SOCIOPATH
@@elijahdiablo7310 "insane" people plan all kinds of stuff. Sometimes mental illness is worse due to a person's high intelligence
Comic Joker embraces his insanity and believes anyone else is just a "bad day" from where he is. But I enjoyed Heath's take and his ticks.
Ledger’s take on the Joker made us crave more and wanting to see more of him, and whenever he appeared on screen you couldn’t take your eyes off him. Such a stunning performance and the fact that it was such an original take on the character and created entirely by him shows what a genius he was
Agreee
Absolutely. And when you see that a guy like Christian Bale had immense respect for him as an actor and as a friend, you know that he must have had something special too. Bale does not strike me as the type to easily show respect for another actor.
The Joker is a philosopher, he's just doing his thought experiments in real life.
Joker was saying some real shit in this movie. It's why I enjoyed this version so much.
He did at least two variations on the Trolley Problem.
Agreeee agreee he had a vision and he believed in it
'When you're young, you idolize Batman. When you mature, you understand the Joker better.'
Not any kind of filosofer... An anarchyst
He's not serious about joining them. He gives them a playing card to contact him. They have no power over anything he does. He is as mercurial as the card implies.
Just thinking the same thing.
Thanks for teaching me a new word
Merxurial? Ill have to look that one up.... thanks brother
Joker is just a cunning psychopath and pathological liar.
By telling people he doesnt scheme. That lie right there could be considered a scheme itself. He WANTS you to think that he is some sort of agent of chaos. The fact that he had layers upon layers of plans and tactics hidden in chaotic sight. Shows how truly deadly his mind is. He is able to plan within that confusion and panic.
However Joker does understand what Batman was able to do not alot of others could do. Batman was able to rule through fear. Batman struck fear in the hearts and minds of would be criminals. As a vigilante.
Both Vigilante and antagonist operated outside of conventional law.
Except he understands.
So all this boils down to the lesser of two evils. Despite batman being a HERO to most people. He is still viewed as a criminal especially how he accepted Jokers crime and became a villain himself.
This batman had to lie just like how joker is a liar in order to keep Order and retain Harvey's dignity.
A villain who is evil and destruction.
A villain who is willing to persecution and defend Gotham and it's people.
@@doomslayer5191 , all valid.points. Joker, for one, IS "a schemer", although he would argue he's not. Batman is, just as Joker said, "There's no going back." and "Outta some self-righteousness", which is true. Joker "SEES" All of this. Joker is in fact, a genius in this movie. A maniacal, psychotic, psychopathic genius, but a genius nonetheless. He even tempts Batman to kill him: "C'mon. C'mon. I wantcha to do it. I wantcha to do it. Hit me. Hit me.", because he ALREADY knows, or at least he's nearly certain at this point that Batman Won't kill him; this act of him "tempting" Batman, and the results, solidifies Joker's KNOWING, or again, his "guestimating with certainty" that Batman Won't kill him. And, this, in turn, gives Joker his forever-battling-yet-never-killing nemesis: His pardon the expression, "Dark Knight" to the "Clown Prince of Crime" AKA, Joker.
A lot of the lines were changed by Ledger. The writers were part of the masterpiece that is the Joker, but Ledger was the Mastermind that gave us this golden performance.
such as?
I know that make up was by himself. 99%
Heath ledger left this world too soon. Heath's joker would make dc dominate the cinematic universe
@@finnheisenheim8274 I don't think so, The Batman films would be really profitable but it's an entire universe, I don't think JUST Heath Ledger can carry all those films by himself.
@@jayv8068 bomb iprov, when it didnt explode few more i forgot what
"You think you can steal the plot? Take all of the audiences attention and put it on your role?"
Heath: *Yeah*
Lmao
The emphasis on the 'T' when the Joker replies "No I'm not" to the "You're crazy" is a masterful piece of dialogue delivery for me. It says to me that the Joker is not simply refuting the insult, he is stating for an unarguable fact that he is not crazy.
Whenever he is insulted, we see the Joker glare at someone, point or replies with an insult of his own "...group therapy sessions.", which go along with the pencil trick to show he is not to be messed with.
The writing and delivery are why we'll be talking about this film and this scene for decades.
Show, don't tell. Suicide Squad thinks character development is Amanda Waller telling the audience who the characters are. The Dark Knight showed us who The Joker is through his actions and interactions with other characters.
It’s a fourth grader’s idea of edginess. “I’m a bad guy! You can tell because I just said I was.”
Agreed, and I think the problem stems from the fact that Suicide Squad is an ensemble piece, which means they have to shoehorn in as much information as possible in as short a time as possible.
@@mrkrunch4340 It relates to one of the biggest failures of the DCEU. They never took the time to develop their characters the way the MCU did. They think throwing a bunch of big names into a movie is gonna make us care about them.
Well stated. Like having 'Damaged' tattooed on your forehead. That shit was a bad joke.
Character "development" is unnecessary for a movie like suicide squad
I just really like looking back at this scene, and realise just how many JOKES the JOKER actually makes through out the movie.
Demented sort of humor. Just the way the character was originally conceived.
Fire Truck
Whatever doesn't kill you makes you... stranger
Im sure other people have mentioned this, but I noticed that whenever a villain in each of the movies beat Batman in their first respective confrontations, they make a pun:
Batman Begins- "You need to lighten up" and then Scarecrow lights Batman on fire
The Dark Knight- "Let her go" "Very poor choice of words" and then let's her go
The Dark Knight Rises- "I was wondering what would break first- your spirit or your body" and then Bane breaks Batman's back
Wanna c Joker tell jokes look @ Mark Hamil's version of the character!...in the Animated Series from 92'
_Dark Knight_ is genuinely a modern classic, change my mind.
1000% agreed
No one should change you mind because that's a fact.
you can’t change someone’s mind about a fact
Why are you saying this like it’s a hot take? 😂
Wow, what a super unpopular opinion…here‘s a real one: Batman Begins was the better Batman movie. The Dark Knight was more of a psychological action-thriller with Batman included.
And to think, there were MANY people that hated Heath Ledger being cast as Joker when it was first announced. How many of them have deleted their angry comments since? Uhh... half.
Best dark knight analysis th-cam.com/video/dhpjKX1j-KQ/w-d-xo.html
Same thing happened when Keeton was cast as Batman.
I thought it was a terrible casting choice, though I didn't "hate" it, as I'm not that invested in the franchise. But rarely when it comes to entertainment have I been so pleased to be wrong.
I think it was because I knew him from love stories alot he portrayed in them so him portraying a dark payhcopath character I honestly thought he couldn't do it but damn I was hella wrong he did an amazing job.
@@relaxhedx7064 yeah his earlier stuff was based on him being hired for his looks rather than his talent i guess? great fucking actor, he made every film he was in good. (or at least, far more watchable than it'd be without him)
God. This performance never gets old. NEVER.
This scene is contrived garage.
@@anypish2 You....do realize how old his comment is right? Or, for that matter that "Garbage" has a b in it?
If the scene never gets old then apparently neither does the comment. Is there a cut off on comments before you don't reply?
1 week?
A month?
An eternity?
As for the typo.... big deal.
@@anypish2 Ok
Agreed. A masterpiece of a performance.
I never noticed that the Joker gets a little bothered getting called a freak and crazy before. Really adds another extra interesting side to his character.
And he only goes out of his way to kill that one mobster who insulted him.
That's the only mistake in this analysis I think.
Not a single thing that the Joker even says, or does for that matter, is remotely reasonable, but no matter what, he thinks he is the most reasonable person in the room.
That's the mark of a truly scary villain right there.
he’s crazy because of his abusive father who carved his mouth and likely has issues from those words by other kids at school etc.
@@andrew-mf2df That father story is most likely fake though
How they were silenced by his laugh. His slow entrance .No violence ,no threats ,no bang , but he still commanded their complete attention immediately.. no dialogue
no violence except putting a pencil through a man's skull
@@quentin4518It was a magic trick . weren't you paying attention ?🤡
"If you're good at something never do it for free..." I live by these words.
Heath Ledger's Joker is the greatest performance of any antagonist ever.
Fight me.
Yes... But Bill the butcher?
Joffrey was good too
Ledger's Joker always reminded me of Liquid Snake. Both believed in chaos. Pretty sure their IQ is 180 as well.
I agree with you, and would also like to fight you.
@inrealtime23 lol killmonger is just the best villain in the Marvel CU. Not even close to the level of Ledgers joker
The card being a joker with no actual way of contacting the individual called The Joker also reinforces your point that he had no intention of actually honoring his deal with the mob.
He's really funny, I actually laugh out loud at the pencil trick. Being funny, terrifying, intelligent, criminally insane, and mysterious are great ingredients for a character, but almost impossible for an actor to pull off. Ledger pulled off a one in a billion performance and I'm grateful.
I love how later in the movie the Joker casually tells Batman "What would do without you, go back to ripping off mob dealers?" confirming that the Joker met the mobsters purely to manipulate them and could not give less of a damn about them.
I remember myself after watching this movie thinking I may have liked the villain better than the hero for the first time. Briilliant portrayal by Ledger.
First time I watched it all I could think was, "There is no fucking way this is the guy from Princess Bride"
It netted him a posthumous Academy Award for Best Supporting Actor. The second he was nominated, everyone knew he deserved it.
Cody Fanning who did he play in the princess bride
@@rb.jkpkmatthews1594 he's the main character. He's also in ten things I hate about you
Cody Fanning Heath ledger?
"You think you can steal from us and just walk away!?"
"Yeah"
L-E-G-E-N-D.
Heath Ledger?
More like Heath Legend
Better than Thanos
420 likes :)
10:36
I think the magic was in the perceived unpredictability of the Joker...
In reality The Joker is a master of predictions but others can’t predict HIM.
He anticipates the mobster move and that’s why he showed them the “magic trick”.
Is the Joker perfect?
Well the nice thing is the most predictable people are the "schemers" as Joker calls them, the plotters, politicians, the liars.
Joker's motivation is really the simpliest out of anyone in this movie (everything burns) but he's "unpredictable" because no one is willing to accept that as his motivation, including Batman till much later in the movie
i love how Suicide Squad ha become "how NOT to write a movie"
Or direct... or edit.. or score... it was good at being bad but bad at being bad enough to be fun
Yeah Joel Schumacher was so bad it was actually funny.
“You’re crazy!”
“No. No I’m not. I’m... not.”
I am the sane
The “t” is emphasized “noT” lol
Watch it as a personality switch 8:53 humorous and light hearted. " Im not." *smirk
Deadly serious "No,I'm *not* ."
I am not. I am not....
Oh Hi Mark.
This is my favorite Joker line. It just says so much about him and Ledger did it sooooo well.
Ah I see Disney watched this video to get tips on negotiating. "Uh half"
lmao
They actually get 65% but who's counting.
@@davidnguyen270 Disney tried 50/50 not 65. Google it
Too bad Disney has the reverse Midas touch, 50% of 0 is still 0.
It's 2019, 11 years later,they still talking about him....heath the greatest 💯💯💯
22 years and they still talking about him
Iam coming from 2030
"Its..... Gone"
Legend.
He killed a man with a fuckin pencil... john wick paying homage lmao
The way he says "Yea" when the guy asks him "You think you can steal from us and just walk away?" Is perfect.
Dark Knight is in my top 5 greatest movies of all time for sure.
Tethloach1 top 3 for me
@@anthonyvallejo1537 same
1) Dark Knight
2-3) Tron Legacy + Pulp Fiction (not sure which goes first)
Ethan Friedland tron legacy is underrated but not top 3
imo
God damn, what a perfect performance. It’s still heartbreaking that Ledger didn’t get to have the Daniel Day-Lewis-esque career he undoubtedly would have.
Someone else pointed it out and I liked it: when Joker is throwing jokes and is being flippant, the mob is being serious, when Joker is being serious (or at least serious in his deception) they laugh at him.
If the film is still discussed even after like a decade, you know it's good
This is still the best superhero film to date. Sorry not sorry Endgame and Infinity War.
David Uziel a man who speaks facts 💯💯💯
Too bad batman isn't a superhero
Its fine to have opinions since quality is subjective. But, the dark knight is more of a crime/thriller than a superhero film. Batman Begins is more of one.
Dark Night > Spider Verse > Endgame/IW.
I think Spiderverse is a technically superior movie, but this one is elevated by having one really good villain and one GOAT villain
"A guy like me.."
"A Freak" *mob laughs*
"A guy.. like.. Me- look, Listen"
I always thought Joker was triggered at the idea that HE could set himself up for something so simple.
This is the best interpretation of this moment
Do a break down of the opening scene from the dark knight rises.
“You’re a big guy”
“For you”
I want to know what the Joker is like while on the toilet. He is portrayed as bigger than life. But we’re all the same on the great equalizer: the toilet.
He doesn't use a toilet, he craps in a bag, then places it at someones door, lights it on fire, rings the doorbell and splits. And, well, you know what happens next.
I honestly thought of that while he was in the police department. He had to have at least peed at some point right?
Milktraap
Yes! At least with Batman, we can imagine him as Mr. Wayne. It’s not hard to imagine men in suites on the can. But a crazy guy like Joker is a different story.
Lmao same
It is December 31st, and I finally found my favorite comment of the decade. God bless.
As far as the Joker's False Goals, yeah he never gave a shit about money, he just wanted the resources to bring his chaos making operation to the next level. Note that while the Joker is clever and capable before this scene, see the bank robbery, by all other account he's a small time, two bit crook. It takes the mob's resources and his newfound notoriety to take him to super villain territory. But as for not wanting to kill Batman, I personally think at the start he didn't care one bit about Batman, he was just an opportunity, or at best a worthy opponent. I think it is through coming into conflict with Bats in the first half of the film that changes his perspective. Whereas before Batman was simply a challenging opponent to be beaten, the Joker realizes that Batman really is that one other "authentic" person, living and fighting as his true self. Once he realizes this, the Joker abandons his goal of killing/unmasking Batman and instead now sees him as his equal. "You... complete... me..." This interpretation gives the Joker a slight change in perspective, and thus, a small but important character arc. Which I think is pretty neat.
JustinDL97 I really liked your thoughts. I agree with what you said. My post is just adding to your well reasoned ideas. Life is a journey. We are all looking for things. People need other people to be complete. A man seeks a woman. Ali needed Frazier. With extremely disagreeable people, you are looking for an adversary to argue with and disagree with. The more worthy the adversary, the better the argument and greater the synergy. The better the antagonist, the greater the accomplishment, satisfaction, and reward. The Joker is looking for that adversary. His first attempt is with Gotham’s mod. This was no contest. Joker wins! The Joker then moved up to Batman. The Joker finds Batman to be his worthy adversary. Batman gives the Joker what no one else can give the Joker. A challenging argument. It is the Joker’s journey and his encounters with Batman that makes the movie. Heath Ledger’s Joker is one of the most interesting characters I have been introduced to in the movies. The uncomfortable part is that the Joker is a dark, evil character, yet I like him and miss him when he is not on screen. This movie captured a dark part of the human psyche. A part of the human condition that we all know and have. A part of the human condition that just wants to watch the world burn. In Sherman’s March to the sea, the Union army destroyed all the southern cities they encountered. This was fun to do. The Joker would have liked to be one of Sherman’s men during the Civil War. Spreading destruction and watching the world burn. I bet there were some Union soldiers who missed it when the war was over. The Joker is a survivor and discipline of chaos, and he wants to bring chaos back. War is hell, and hell is chaos. The Joker is the agent of chaos.
You are well trained
I am suggesting there is a pleasurable aspect to burning down cities. I’m suggesting the men performing the destruction enjoyed it. See the arsonist who loves fire. Have you explored Steven King’s movie “The Stand?” Trashcan Man? The fact that you cannot see the pleasurable aspects of destruction tells me you may be in denial on this topic. Some men actually love war. Some men don’t want war to be over. Denial in these terms is a psychological defense mechanism in which the problem or reality is avoided by denying the problem or reality exists. Your inability to come to terms with a character like the Joker who embraces or loves destructive chaos is understandable. While I can understand the Joker’s dark side, I would rather run away from it than embrace it. What makes the Joker so frightening is his level of rationality and his ability to persuade. On some of his points, the Joker may be correct. Compare the Joker’s philosophy with that of Nietzsche, who says: “God is dead. There is no religion. There are no rules. We are moral because of fear of punishment, not because people are good.” Take away the rules of society, which Nietzsche says are made up, and you get the Joker. Embrace the chaos. We love the Joker because, deep down, that who we are.
@@smhollanshead Nietzsche didn't stop there, though. He stated that, yes, the rules of society are figments, and therefore we ought to construct our own individual moral codes, not throw caution to the wind.
While what you suggest seems reasonable in theory, it’s not what happens in practice. We must recognize how difficult for a person to develop his or her own personal philosophy of life. Most of us just can’t do it. But, we have the advantage of 5000 years of philosophic thinking to help us. The problem is those lost people who believe in nihilism May run towards the Joker as a role model. Wasn’t there a disturbed young man in face paint who shot up a movie theater? While I agree developing an individual philosophy is a noble goal, it is also dangerous and leads to instability. It is better for the best amongst us to lead, and the people get behind the leader. Even having one person per generation what can add to the meaning of life is significant. This is what happened with Christianity and Islam, with Gandhi in India, with George Washington in 1776. On the darker side, it is also what happened with Alford Hitler in Nazi Germany.
One of my favorite scenes / most Joker defining moment is when he burns "only his half" of the money pile.
He isn't about financial gain - he's a real anarchistic villain - he doesn't care that the entire pile burns ( including the mob's half of the money )
and that makes for a great joke IMO - which is what he is also all about - Chaos and contagion
Not to mention the guy (Lau) who's on top of said pile...
Damn.
What would’ve Heath Ledger done with this character in a possible sequel...?
Makes me miss him even more
This was a "once in a lifetime" performance, it and that's how it should be. Lightning in a bottle. As an actor, you want to always be working, but as an artist, you don't want to repeat yourself and get type-cast, and you definitely don't reprise the role if the script is bad. Consider the tiny scrap of film Cillian Murphy gets to cameo in The Dark Knight, then picture them doing the same thing to Ledger in the 3rd installment; it would really strip the character of intensity in my opinion. "Oh, yeah, that guy, he was in the last one. Anyway..." The great ones, however, leave their mark on a character, even when they return to it, so who knows? That's why, I guess, Christopher Reeve is Superman, Marlon Brando is Stanley Kowalski, Harrison Ford is Han Solo, Morgan Freeman is "God," and....yeah, Heath Ledger is The Joker. It's sad sometimes, but you have to leave the party while you're still welcome to stay.
Lets not “blow” this out of proportion 😂😂
TH-cam LOVES videos about the Dark Knight for some reason. It's a great film, but it's crazy how crazy people are for it. Loved the video, man.
Thanks man!
Nolan writes really cerebral but emotionally-disabled characters, which perfectly speaks to most of the film students (aka many youtube analysts) that i studied with lol. I love his films, while also shaking my head at why he constructs facsimiles of emotional motivation using roundabout, complex logical systems. Absolute unit
Wanna know the magic trick that Ledger used that other actors forgot?
When Ledger acted as the Joker, he tried to imagine what it was like to feel what the Joker may feel... when he was supposed to be angry, he tried to be angry.
Most actors forget this, and end up with stilted, and emotionless acting: such as nearly all the new Hollywood movies.
Joaquin was amazing as Arthur Fleck, because he made us feel what he felt, as though he actually were Arthur Fleck.
In the scene, he also only kills one person and does so in a way that’s humorous. The joker doesn’t just kill, he kills, because it’s funny.
Un-pauses video:
joker breathes:
Video pauses: the way the joker breathes here is important because..
lmao
This is a small detail because he does this during the rest of the film.
Its a really important character trait, as without this, the joker would be dead.
"gimme one reason why i shouldn't have my boy hear blow your head off"
"how 'bout a magic trick" - coming from the dude who stole $60 mil from you
"... PULL your head off".
Every time Joker treating people with a knife, he also gripping their neck. This purpose to check the veins and keep checking their eyes movement. He reading the victims, enjoying their fear. Just like an interrogation.
And the back story he told keeps changing according to who the victim is.
"I'm gonna
make this pencil
dissapear"
*SLAM*
BabyCakes123 TADAAAA
Best magic trick in a movie ever. That one little bit says so much about the Joker on so many levels.
Fun fact you can hear the split second squish of the eye before the thud of the head slamming on the table. (Headphones are the best way to hear this)
"TA-DA! It's... gone..."
I genuinely cannot get enough of your videos. I’m an English teacher with a deep passion for analysis and your videos scratch an itch that is somehow missed by other creators in our field.
Well done and keep it up!
P.S. it also helps that much of your work focuses around A Song of Ice and Fire, which is my favorite series of all time.
That is some great praise John! Thanks for watching!
DillyDyson007 I currently only create for my own enjoyment, or for the education of my students. However, I’ve recently considered broadening into a more public space.
Are you one of those "the sky blue curtains depict the depth of his knowledge and thoughtfulness" kind of teacher?
@@suvamadhikari2996 what do you mean??
@@suvamadhikari2996 writer's purpose requires that sort of language analysis, which you'd know if you paid attention to the subject at all
"Give the audience what they want, just not how they expect it." I've never actually heard that golden rule before. Very thought provoking and makes me reflect on my own writing. Thank you. I did, indeed, learn something from this.
A much better and sound advice indeed than the average "avoid this and this Trope because they are just bad and predictable' from many creative writing videos and articles. I prefer anytime an expected but witty and engaging scene than a poorly written plot twist.
The look in Joker's eyes, the way he leers, cackles, its hard to believe it's Heath Ledger, terrifying. You cannot stop watching his performance, it takes over.
"I'm not. No, I'm noT" *death stare*
I also believe that the Joker never wanted to cooperate with the mobsters, simply by not taking the seriously and obviously seeing them as not on his own level of intelligence and as you said through thinking he is the only real sane person seein everything clearly. He is as alone as he can be, also by masking himself. To get what he wants he needs people, money and weapons though while not caring too much about these things. Interesting that he is calling gordan "alone", I think he can very much relate with him, hust that they are on different sides.
xAka_DeViL yeah. The mob was beneath him. Though I would say his mind was set on the Batman being his opposite, with Gordon being in the middle. Gordon has seen both sides of this conflict and while he favors Batman’s ideals......well......to put it simply....
All it takes is one bad day
It's nice that there are so many videos about the Joker from the Dark Knight, because I could honestly spend an entire day listening to all of them haha
12 years later I still find new original content in regards to this movie. Regardless whether you like the movie or not, this shows how people honestly think that this is one in a million of kind that we get very so often that we go back to watching it 12 years later and STILL find new bits and pieces that we are simply fascinating.
OMG YAAAAAAS I've finally found someone that appreciates this scene the way I do! The pause he gave when called a freak and crazy are what I loved about this scene. So much depth in his emotion!
Watching that scene really made me realize that Ledger was genuinely funny as the Joker. And it works brilliantly, he’s not this laugh out loud cartoon character, sort of like he was when the comics code didn’t allow violence, but here his form of comedy is dryer than expected, its understated and almost sarcastic.
The Joker plans his chaos. The pencil is a plan, his finger is blocking the hammer on the gun to prevent firing, he has a nurse outfit, he told Batman the inverse of where Rachel is, he knew which boats to put the bombs on. Chaos is his mis-direction.
its not a misdirection it's simple fallacy of every chaotic character that ever claimed to be agent of chaos.
Most even make organisations. That's how much of a joke chaos is.
If you rewatch that whole scene of him telling him where Rachel was, he explains to Batman his rules and regulations. He tells Batman that he is going to misdirect him but if he wants to save the one he really wants to save he needs to not listen to his directions.
Something else Nolan fucked up! Harley Quinn has the nurse outfit!
Joker is actually second person Batman kills...he rots in Arkham Asylum for most of his life.
Joker actually does try and kill Batman quite a few times...in fact he was hired by that mob to kill him so I doubt very much that he would kill the guys who're going to be paying him....
And then he claims not to be a schemer.
*Xellos Kaczor* The fallacy is on your part, my friend
This scene provides many little Easter egg clues of joker’s personality. For one, joker being genuinely annoyed and upset at being called crazy was a fantastic moment. Nice to see this acknowledged finally.
I love how Eric Roberts looks at Heath for a moment like he really enjoys watching him work.
Glad I'm not the only one who thought the same thing lol
Funnily enough, after filming that scene, Heath Ledger asked Eric Roberts if he thought his performance was good. Robert’s’ reaction was “Are you kidding? That was amazing!” RIP Heath Ledger.
@@speedracer2008WOOOO
@@speedracer2008I love Eric Roberts sm so this pleases me greatly! ☆ (ﾉ≧∀≦)ﾉ
That Littlefinger and his ladder made my day.
"It's not about money, it's about sending a message"
"Ya wanna know, how I got these scars"
"Hit me"
"I just want my phone call"
The Monty Python-esque pop-ups at the bottom with the GoT reference at 3:37 was absolutely inspired, and I commend your visual designers heartily. Very well played, indeed.
I like how it subtly shows that being called a freak or crazy seems to bother the joker
It's just difficult to articulate how brilliant Heath Ledger's performance as the Joker was!
Man, I can't believe this movie is more than a decade old now. I watched that shit in the theater with my mom and stepsiblings. It's wild.
Anyway, the video is great, and these dialogue dive videos are super interesting. I'm really interest in how a character can be explored through his dialogue, so I'm more than up for more of these. Maybe something around Bojack Horseman since I love that show and your videos on it are why I found your channel? Anyway, kudos.
You're lucky. I wasn't allowed in since I wasn't 16 yet. The first time I got denied like this. I had to sneak in later.
I know, this was the first movie I saw in IMAX theaters, oh man it was amazing. I wish I could do it again right now.
I watched the Dark Knight Rises in Cinema holy shit what a disruptive audience
fusiontoa18 Really? Ouch, dude. That must've sucked. I was younger than 16 at the time but I saw this movie in theaters and begged to go back. Believe it's actually only PG-13 lol
damn 2008 for real
Do you guys ever just “ohh heee aha “ 😂😂 randomly through your day hahaha
Just wanted to say that at the scene where he had the gun pointed at his head. He never put his finger off the triggering head.
He was never going to get shot. He just gambled he could get Harvey on his side.
It actually shows how manipulative he actually is.
The Joker: How about a magic trick?
TH-cam: How about an ad?
Me: FFS!!!
@Uhhh or download a modded version
Underated Comment
Adblock. Good Lord, what's wrong with people today?
@@r0bw00dYeah....your gonna just assume he was on a computer?
Yeah. That's where savvy people watch TH-cam from, anyway.
Let's be honest...
*We all turned into fangirls when this Joker was introduced to us*
It’s true
Yup😅
Yeah! Glad I'm not the only one fangirling! He is so stunning as a Joker~ XD
Nope!
No. I literally didn't hear about TDK until Heath died. I didn't even know who Heath was until TDK.
Mobster: why shouldn't i kill you?
Joker: How about a magic trick?
AN AD!
This was the most engrossing video I've watched in a while. Even though I knew the dialogue of the scene itself was drawing to a close and you didn't have any more material to work with, I actually jolted in surprise when the screen went white to start your channel identification. Well done.
You notice how he gives Gambol 3 strikes? First the freak comment, second the crazy comment, third the bounty.
I'd suggest there is just as much character exposition in the opening bank heist as this (regarding Joker). Not necessarily vocalized... rather via actions, his demeanor, the set-up, and execution of the segment.
Especially the fact that each heist member was instructed to kill of other member.
My thoughts exactly, this scene just further reinforces what we saw at the beginning of the film.
The bank heist also shows early on that the Joker is a meticulous planner... a SCHEMER.
That in mind, I laughed when he was telling Harvey about how he's an agent of chaos, and he's the opponent of the schemers.
Looks like the joke is on Harvey.
(To add a bit more thought to my initial post):: There's a brilliance in using the hired hand bank thieves as a narrational exposition tool for the Joker. I feel it highly more effective than the mob/kitchen scene while capturing the nature of Ledger's Joker in theatrical fashion. Theres a sense of mystery, suspense & wonderment as to who this character is as they discuss him (i.e. "War Paint"); and sheds just enough information without needing dialogue from the Joker himself. Christopher Nolan uses this narration to excite the audience into suspense. The orchestration of skilled thieves while blending in exposes a master manipulation... reinforced as they don't know his identity or that he's playing the role of a 'hired hand.' This scene plays out haphazardly, while ultimately being planned to perfection (even if one would argue his ultimate goal is chaos & unpredictability... a spline plot of meticulous precision is the path that allows Joker to portray this vision of anarchy). His lack of empathy for human life is clear as day in the execution as a whole (chain-murdering each thief) and specifically as he shoots the 'bus driver' while multitasking/looking away to carry on. His non-intention to become part of any social ring (as with the mob also) is hammered home in the opening as he literally has each doppelgänger executed. He comes into the scene unannounced & isolated and disappears into a sea of school busses; again as the last and only man standing once again camouflaged.
zibbybone He’s an amazing and cunning schemer, but he is chaotic in his goals. If he suddenly decides he wants to rob a bank that would be the chaotic part. Planning it perfectly with ease is just part of his skill set. It’s a terrifying combination to have. That’s why I like the theory that he’s ex military. That he came from a background of planning battles and such but ended up psychologically damaged by war
5:20. Damn, I never even realized that he stole from them. Good analysis. Heath was definitely the star of this one. I’m glad that I stumbled onto this channel. I’m looking forward to your other videos.
I love hearing a detailed explanation of why a piece of art is amazing. Its all in the details.
Joker and the mobsters sounds like a sitcom I would watch
I'm he didn't "laugh " once... Who is this guy?.....'cause he ain't the Joker! The Joker has several maniacal/homicidal "laughs" depending upon his mood and where he is....
Almost like Joker has 3 different personas....
Read the comic books and research the character a little...also watch a few animated Batman films and u will c what I'm saying is true....
@@danielcooke3800 to be honest I liked this joker the "laught" is important but Heath Ledger's joker got the psychology of the character on point.
And Heath Ledger's laugh is not awesome but having a colorful clown shouting puns and laughing all the time would ruin the movie.
Has anyone else noticed when joker makes his laugh, it’s the got the dark knight rises theme in it. I found that pretty cool
I'm gonna have to watch it again. I never picked up on that.
This video was just unbelievably amazing. I have just watched the movie for the first time a couple of days ago (yeah) and it blew my mind. Since then I have watched youtube videos of it, and this is by far the best one. Thank you so much!
that white background is killing my eyes.
Excellent analysis! I especially enjoyed the two moments you mentioned when Joker was enraged by being called "freak" and "crazy", since (a) this is a radical departure from previous incarnations of the Joker (as you mentioned) and (b) the accusation of insanity denigrates and belittles his crusade, just as it would for Batman.
This made me think of a similiar dialogue between Daredevil and Punisher when they first meet on the rooftop in the second season of "Daredevil". Before confronting the Punisher, Daredevil just dismissed him as a nutjob with guns, and Punisher just dismissed him as one more obstacle to his crusade. No more or less significant than that. After calling the Punisher "unhinged" during their argument, however, the Punisher visibly became enraged because the idea that Frank might just be mentally ill figuratively spits in his face. Like the Joker, Frank sees himself as the protagonist, putting his military skills to use to rid the world of as many criminals as he possibly can before being taken out himself, so that no other innocent people have to lose their loved ones like he did. Abstract principles and nobler ambitions become psychologized and small in the eyes of those same people Joker and Punisher are trying to convince. It's an attack on their value judgments, ironically the same kind of attack Joker gleefully uses on Batman to belittle HIS crusade.
This video randomly came up in my recommended, incredibly articulated and insightful. Awesome job.
10:45
I think that this belief is 100% substantiated. The through line with "being serious" is a detail I never noticed before, but when he puts his "Business card" down on the table, it's a Joker card from a standard card deck. I always took that as a queue that Joker thought of dealing with the mobsters as a joke, given that he uses the act of giving a Business card, a standard procedure when doing business with someone, to make another joke.
This is just one of many great scenes from this masterpiece, but how about an analysis of the Joker and Harvey Dent scene in the hospital (one of the most chilling scenes in my opinion) and also the interrogation scene with Batman