I have just discovered this principle by mistake while experimenting with the first air bearing spindle I got my hands on and I thought I was going crazy as I didn't expect this was a result to me closing down the thrust bearing air gap and I am just so glad I found this video of yours as i thought it was locking up because of poor quality work anyway..I have been trying to find the documents/drawings of the model I have...it's a westwind model 70, which is the smallest air spindle that I could find and afford...another thing that makes it more rare is that it is an air powered spindle + aerodynamic bearing...the rotor/turbine design is another great alternative to electric motor. I can send you some plans if you want? You should make one for your Dan Gelbart lathe as I was going going to do the same project as that video of his completely changed my life of engineering..I am going to make a bigger version of the spindle that I bought...this little westwind spindle I bought to mount on my SIP...I was wondering if I am correct in guessing the reason for the turbine powered instead of electric, as my goal was to have the least jittery rotation spindle as I think the particular model I have is better than the other turbine designs that I have seen in that it doesn't work with a vane type propeller that has blades that ports guide the jetted air up against the blades. It's almost like a reverse principle type configuration. The next experiment I aim to get working is to combine something like this that you built into my westwind...I was wondering if you could answer some questions about it? Thanks for the inspiration 😊
If I may share my thoughts on increasing the thrust handling capability. Not a native speaker here, so sorry for any mistakes or unclear language. I immediately thought of the housings of turbochargers or blower/pump housings in general in respect to increasing the flow area around the circumference to have an as linear as possible increase (or decrease depending on flow direction) in pressure. In your case, as you have access to a laser, you could form these grooves not with all the same depth but rather with a profile of some sort that gets narrower towards the center. That would force the fluid you want to use to be distributed more evenly across the bearing area instead of piling up at the end of the channel and therefore should greatly increase the load bearing capability of the whole thing. Now the calculations or rather simulations for the optimal shape of these channels is way over my head but there are a lot of people out there playing with such tools and software. As I said actually making them should be no problem with a laser's help. Hopfully this is of any value for your project as I just wrote half a book down here. Even if it's not it should help with the algorithm :D
One of those amazing things that never occur to me but make immediate sense when seen! Thanks for sharing something I did not know! Oh, and a thing I wonder about with this and all the other air bearings you work with is: How thick is a latent fingerprint, and does that interfere with these bearings? This particular example, I can see how you would maybe just ride a little higher, but how about the more constrained bearings?
What happens if you machine the groves on the rotor part? What about grooves on the center pin area to keep it centered and floating laterally as well?
Its always amazing watching your videos and getting to know how these mechanisms work! Just out of curiosity, could your diamond turning lathe be used to create the parts with similar results to the lapping, or the flatness would be hard to achieve?
Thanks! The DTL could absolutely make parts of a good enough geometry, the issue is it couldn’t make parts out of the right material. If I diamond turned these components from aluminum, they would score and gall horrifically almost instantly. You want a very hard material for these components but I can’t diamond turn those (right now)
@@cylosgarageI was curious about this too? What is lacking in your setup to be able to turn harder metals? Is it just rigidity of the lathe or set up? Is there a min depth of cut required or could you just take fractions of a nm at a time to reduce tool pressure until defection was managable?
@@HuskyMachining without special technologies like ultrasonic assisted cutting, you can’t diamond turn steel. The diamond basically dissolves into the ferrous alloys in a matter of seconds, so that takes a lot of “hard” options off the table. You can diamond turn other hard things like certain optical crystals, silicon, and germanium, but it requires a special high negative rake diamond tool I do not possess. Google “ductile regime cutting of brittle materials” for more info on this. Basically it’s not a machine limitation it’s just a process limitation
@@cylosgarage I'll have to Google that. I forget sometimes how chemicaly unstable Diamond is at high temperatures... it is just bound up carbon. Btw, I love the videos you put out. I only know my little niche of machining and it's cool to see other parts
This is brilliant! How long does it spin for? I've been trying to make one of these but struggled getting a decent flatness (aluminium tape on surface plate method).
Thanks, you can use a lubricant, but the bearing needs to be pretty much submerged in it. Then you get the same effect just with the oil. The bearings in hard drives work like this
I have just discovered this principle by mistake while experimenting with the first air bearing spindle I got my hands on and I thought I was going crazy as I didn't expect this was a result to me closing down the thrust bearing air gap and I am just so glad I found this video of yours as i thought it was locking up because of poor quality work anyway..I have been trying to find the documents/drawings of the model I have...it's a westwind model 70, which is the smallest air spindle that I could find and afford...another thing that makes it more rare is that it is an air powered spindle + aerodynamic bearing...the rotor/turbine design is another great alternative to electric motor. I can send you some plans if you want? You should make one for your Dan Gelbart lathe as I was going going to do the same project as that video of his completely changed my life of engineering..I am going to make a bigger version of the spindle that I bought...this little westwind spindle I bought to mount on my SIP...I was wondering if I am correct in guessing the reason for the turbine powered instead of electric, as my goal was to have the least jittery rotation spindle as I think the particular model I have is better than the other turbine designs that I have seen in that it doesn't work with a vane type propeller that has blades that ports guide the jetted air up against the blades. It's almost like a reverse principle type configuration. The next experiment I aim to get working is to combine something like this that you built into my westwind...I was wondering if you could answer some questions about it? Thanks for the inspiration 😊
If I may share my thoughts on increasing the thrust handling capability. Not a native speaker here, so sorry for any mistakes or unclear language.
I immediately thought of the housings of turbochargers or blower/pump housings in general in respect to increasing the flow area around the circumference to have an as linear as possible increase (or decrease depending on flow direction) in pressure. In your case, as you have access to a laser, you could form these grooves not with all the same depth but rather with a profile of some sort that gets narrower towards the center. That would force the fluid you want to use to be distributed more evenly across the bearing area instead of piling up at the end of the channel and therefore should greatly increase the load bearing capability of the whole thing. Now the calculations or rather simulations for the optimal shape of these channels is way over my head but there are a lot of people out there playing with such tools and software. As I said actually making them should be no problem with a laser's help. Hopfully this is of any value for your project as I just wrote half a book down here. Even if it's not it should help with the algorithm :D
The mechanics are incredible!
Amazing work. But I wonder how much load it could handle. I’d assume it would change proportional to the rotation speed.
Yep, the fast it spins the more load capacity you get. The math says around 50 pounds at 1000 rpm I believe
One of those amazing things that never occur to me but make immediate sense when seen! Thanks for sharing something I did not know! Oh, and a thing I wonder about with this and all the other air bearings you work with is: How thick is a latent fingerprint, and does that interfere with these bearings? This particular example, I can see how you would maybe just ride a little higher, but how about the more constrained bearings?
Supreme skills (Japanese Engineering show) had an episode where they used a very similar technique to slide an object across the table
Greatest show of all time!!!
What happens if you machine the groves on the rotor part?
What about grooves on the center pin area to keep it centered and floating laterally as well?
That’s some garage
Its always amazing watching your videos and getting to know how these mechanisms work! Just out of curiosity, could your diamond turning lathe be used to create the parts with similar results to the lapping, or the flatness would be hard to achieve?
Thanks! The DTL could absolutely make parts of a good enough geometry, the issue is it couldn’t make parts out of the right material. If I diamond turned these components from aluminum, they would score and gall horrifically almost instantly. You want a very hard material for these components but I can’t diamond turn those (right now)
@@cylosgarage I see, thanks for the reply, and I love the "right now", can't wait to see that lathe evolving.
@@cylosgarageI was curious about this too? What is lacking in your setup to be able to turn harder metals? Is it just rigidity of the lathe or set up? Is there a min depth of cut required or could you just take fractions of a nm at a time to reduce tool pressure until defection was managable?
@@HuskyMachining without special technologies like ultrasonic assisted cutting, you can’t diamond turn steel. The diamond basically dissolves into the ferrous alloys in a matter of seconds, so that takes a lot of “hard” options off the table. You can diamond turn other hard things like certain optical crystals, silicon, and germanium, but it requires a special high negative rake diamond tool I do not possess. Google “ductile regime cutting of brittle materials” for more info on this. Basically it’s not a machine limitation it’s just a process limitation
@@cylosgarage I'll have to Google that. I forget sometimes how chemicaly unstable Diamond is at high temperatures... it is just bound up carbon.
Btw, I love the videos you put out. I only know my little niche of machining and it's cool to see other parts
Hi Cylo, any plans for that air bearing "impregnation" video?👍
This is brilliant! How long does it spin for? I've been trying to make one of these but struggled getting a decent flatness (aluminium tape on surface plate method).
Depends on how fast you get it going. It’ll go for a few minutes if you spin it up with compressed air
Cylo, that is pretty much brilliant !!!!
Downside tho, is that you cannot use a lubricant, can you ?
Thanks, you can use a lubricant, but the bearing needs to be pretty much submerged in it. Then you get the same effect just with the oil. The bearings in hard drives work like this
Oooooh ! Yeah, just submerge it fully - had thought the viscosity of the oil would be too great for it to be pulled in !@@cylosgarage
That moore tools coffee mug placement was intentional wasn’t it?
You know it buddy
See en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiral_groove_bearing